UAP 第233集独家：首位新体验者首次公开亮相

我们之间最多也就相隔五十到六十英尺。

We were only maybe fifty, sixty feet at most away from one another, at most.

而且因为我们在湖边，所以周围都是湖水的味道。

And given that we're at the lake, there was a lot of lake smell.

所以如果有什么特别的气味，我记不得了。

So if there was something distinct with it, I don't recall it.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

这很有意思，因为显然，你现在知道的话，听起来你描述的是典型的灰人形象。

It's fascinating because, obviously, as you know now, it sounds like you're describing a typical gray that people would see.

我相信，对你来说，回顾这件事也是难以置信的。

And it's incredible, I'm sure, for you to look back on too.

再说到背景，你说这件事发生的时候你大概八九岁。

And just again, as far as background goes, you said you're about eight or nine years old when this happened.

对你来说，有没有什么因素会让这次目击显得像是暗示性的？

Would there be anything for you that would make this a suggestive sighting?

就是说，你之前是不是看了什么科幻节目，脑子里已经有了灰人的形象。

Meaning, you know, you were watching, some type of science fiction show beforehand, and you had a gray in mind.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

会不会……

Would...

你那个年纪有没有接触过这类娱乐内容？

Were you partaking in any of that entertainment at that age?

没有。

No.

我当时不被允许看那些。

I was not allowed to.

好。

K.

所以，好吧。

So Okay.

所以绝对不是。

So definitely not.

不是。

No.

我……

I...

就是那种很普通的……

It was just your your typical...

我当时在外面。

I was outside.

我妈经常给我们做三明治，给我和朋友们做三明治什么的，然后说，出去玩，天黑再回来。

My my mom often would just make us sandwiches, my friends and I sandwiches or whatever, and say, Go outside, come back when it's dark.

以前是……

Used be......

在外面。

Out there.

没错。

Exactly.

这又让人觉得很神奇，因为那时候你几乎没接触过什么外界影响，能看到那样的东西。

Which is, again, fascinating to think about, that there weren't really a lot of influences for you then when it comes to seeing something like that.

那是你第一次看到那种灰色外星人吗？

Was that the first time you had seen a gray alien like that?

当然，在你一生中是第一次，但之前你有没有在电视、图片、杂志上看到过类似的东西，然后对自己说，哦，那看起来就像我在某某地方看到的外星人？

Obviously, in your life, yes, but have you seen anything like that before on TV, pictures, magazines, you said to yourself, oh, that looks like an alien that I saw, you know, on x y z?

没有。

No.

不是……

Not...

我从没见过那样的东西。

I've never seen anything like it.

当然以前没见过。

Certainly not before.

而且电视上很多描述听起来都差不多。

And on TV, a lot of the descriptions I I see, they they kind of sound similar.

但我从来没能看到……

But but I've never able to see...

我从来没见过完全重现我当时看到的东西，但当时完全没有受到任何影响。

I've never seen something recreated exactly the way that I saw it, but there was no no influence there whatsoever.

有意思。

Interesting.

那么现在，你长大之后，我知道你的故事还有更多内容，但我真的很想深入聊聊你当时看到的东西。

So now, after you got older, I know there's more to your story here, but I really wanted to go in-depth on what you saw.

但随着你往前走，我很好奇，你是什么时候意识到，随着我们进入90年代和2000年代，这变得越来越普遍，你在电影里看到更多图片和东西，比如《X档案》里的灰外星人，那是在你那次目击事件大约五年后出现的。

But as you went forward, I'm just curious, when did you realize, as we get through the '90s into the 2000s and this starts to become more and more, you see more pictures and things in movies and, you know, gray aliens on x files and things like that that came out about five years after that sighting that you had.

你是什么时候意识到……

When did you realize...

等等。

Wait.

我是不是看到了外星人？

Did I see an alien?

你知道吗，没有一个具体的日期让我印象深刻，而且我从来没有……

You know, there is no, like, one date that really comes to mind, and I've never...

我不能说我曾经对自己说过，我看到了外星人。

I can't really say it necessarily I've ever said to myself, I saw an alien.

我看到了对我来说陌生的东西，而且我再也没见过。

I saw something that was alien to me, and I've never seen it again.

我不知道是不是我的大脑还是不愿意接受这个事实。

I don't know if it's just my mind still not wanting to come to grips with it.

但我想大概是在我开始看到房间里的灯光，它们进入我的房间的时候，我就觉得，也许那真的有什么。

But I would would say probably about the time I I started kinda seeing the lights in my room and coming coming into my room that I I was like, maybe there was something to that.

也许这两件事是有关联的。

Maybe this is connected.

也就是说

Which is

我从来没有真正有过那种恍然大悟的时刻。

never I never really had, like, this connect the dots moment.

好的。

Okay.

我很高兴你提到了那些光进入你房间的事，因为那正是我接下来想聊的。

And I'm glad you mentioned the lights coming into your room because that's where I wanted to go next with this.

现在，离开那个地方。

Now, leave that area.

你会觉得，天哪。

You're like, Oh my gosh.

好的。

Okay.

我走了。

I'm out of here.

我不知道我看到了什么，但我不会留下来弄清楚。

I don't know what I'm seeing, but I'm not sticking around to find out.

现在你继续。

Now you you go on.

那之后发生了什么？

So what happens after this?

多久之后？

How soon after?

因为我知道你最后在房间里看到了那些光。

Because I know you ended up seeing these lights in your room.

那是什么感觉，距离你在湖边看到那个生物到在房间里看到光，中间隔了多久？

So what was that like, and how soon after it was from where you saw the creature at the lake to now seeing lights in your room?

其实有好几个月。

Months, really.

几个月之内，因为接下来真正开始的是……

Within a few months because the the next thing that really I started...

我注意到那是……

I I noticed it was...

晚上，我……

At night, I...

我一直都很难入睡。

I've always had a hard time sleeping.

从小就这样，我就是……

Even as a kid, I just...

很难睡着。

I had a hard time sleeping.

我有时候会想，比如……

I sometimes wonder, like...

因为我不太记得这之前发生过什么，直到看到那些光之后。

Because I don't really remember this happening until after the lights thing.

但小时候，你知道，几个月后，我和我的哥们儿在搭一个堡垒。

But as a young kid, you know, a few months later, my my buddy and I were building a building a fort.

那时候，你知道，小孩子都这样。

That's what, you know, kids did.

我们就在我家那条路往下走一点，那里人很少，又是个很偏远的乡村地区。

And we had we had just just down the road from our house, and it's it's a very unpopulated, again, a very rural area in this in this village.

房子都隔得很远。

Houses were spread apart.

整条街只有四栋房子，而这条街差不多有一英里长。

There was only four houses on this entire street, and the street's almost a mile long.

剩下的就是……

And the rest was just...

就是树林。

It's just woods.

但就在我家那条街往下走，有一棵大树，我真希望它还在，因为它太漂亮了。

But right down the street from my house, there was this great big tree that I wish was still there because it was so pretty.

但现在那里盖了一栋房子。

But there's now a house there.

但我们在建这个堡垒，而且当时是冬天。

But we were building this fort, and it was winter.

雪刚停。

It just got done snowing.

还在下一点小雪，刚好够你在手上或舌头上接住雪花什么的……

It was still snowing a little bit, just enough where you can kinda catch a snowflake on your hand or your tongue or what...

随便吧。

Whatever.

我们想给我们那个超酷的树屋加上最后几个收尾的装饰。

And we wanted to add these couple last finishing touches to our really cool tree fort.

而且当时感觉很奇怪。

And and it was weird.

但在那之前，我记得有很多灯光照进房间里。

But leading up to that, I do remember that there was a lot of lights coming into the room.

而且我们那条路上平时没有救护车来来往往的。

And we didn't have emergency vehicles going going up and down our roads.

说实话，在我们镇上，我从来没见过救护车或警车进过我们村子。

I had, honestly, in my town, never seen an ambulance or a police car coming into our village at all.

所以那完全不是那种情况。

So it was not anything like that.

但是有光，像闪烁的光，照进我的房间，差不多就像彩虹一样的光带，找不到更好的词来形容。

But there were lights, like, flickering coming in my room, like, almost like rainbow streams for lack of better terms.

一开始我从来没觉得害怕。

And I I never felt like scared at first.

我说我不记得感到害怕。

I said I don't remember feeling scared.

但是再回到那个树屋的夜晚，我感觉到了……

But fast forward back again to that that tree fort night, I felt...

我不能说我是听到了。

I can't say I heard it.

我感觉到了，像是一种震动。

I felt this Like a vibration.

我的身体和我……

My body and I...

就像是，你……

It's it's it's like you've...

像是一种低沉的隆隆声。

Like a low rumble.

你能感觉到它在身体里。

Like, you feel it in your body.

好。

Okay.

我当时就想，那是什么？

And I was like, what is that?

就在那一刻，我抬头一看，看到了一个三角形的物体。对。

And and about that moment, kinda looked up and I saw this triangular looking thing Mhmm.

离我们头顶不远。

Not very far above our heads.

而且它上面还有彩色的灯。

And it had these colored lights on it.

哇。

Wow.

然后就是一道闪光。

And then it's this flash.

真的很奇怪。

And it was weird.

当时就我和我哥们儿在那儿。

It's just it's just my buddy and I out there.

周围没有其他人。

No one else is out there.

那是晚上。

It's at nighttime.

我妈跟我说过，我得在某个时间点之前回家。

And my mom had said I have be home at a certain time.

她对这些事情非常坚持。

And she was very adamant about those things.

因为她并不是在农村长大的。

Because she didn't grow up necessarily in the country.

不过，总之，我和我的哥们儿当时……

But, anyway, so my buddy and I are...

你知道，我们就在那儿，然后，突然一道闪光。

You know, we were there and then, like, this flash.

我知道他看到了，所以我也看到了……

And I know he saw it, so I saw...

我看向他，他也正抬头看同一个东西。

I looked over at him, and he was looking up the same thing.

然后，我又什么都不记得了，直到，像……

And and I don't remember anything again till, like, this...

又一道闪光。

Another flash.

然后我们俩都回来了。

And we were both back.

我们就在树屋旁边，然后……

We were next to our tree fort, and...

但我们的脚印已经被雪盖住了一部分。

But our footprints had partially filled with snow.

所以我们有一段时间没去，但他看着我，我也看着他，我还是有点懵，这到底怎么回事？

And so we haven't gone for some amount of time, but he just looked at me and I looked at him and I was still like, what what the heck?

有点晕晕乎乎的，搞不清状况。

And kinda like somewhat dazed and confused.

哇。

Wow.

他看着我，开始慌了，直接跑回家了。

And he kinda looks at me, he's he's he's starts freaking out, he just runs home.

然后我听到我妈在街那头喊我回家。

And I hear my mom yelling down the street, you know, yelling for me to get home.

我当时就想，哎呀，糟了。

And I'm like, oh, crap.

所以我就……

So I just...

跑回家了。

I run home.

我什么都没跟她说。

And I didn't say anything to her.

也没跟任何人提。

I didn't say anything to anybody else.

我和他后来提过几次，但他不想聊这个。

He and I, we mentioned it a few times, but he didn't wanna talk about it.

他现在是神职人员，就是不肯谈这件事。

And he's now a member of the clergy and just refuses to talk about it.

哇。

Wow.

因为所有东西，你知道，不是天使就是恶魔。

Because everything's either, you know, an angel or a demon.

就这样。

Period.

如果你解释不了，那就是恶魔。

If you can't explain it, it's demonic.

但是，哇。

But Wow.

那之后，我开始在晚上看到越来越多的这种光进我房间。

After that, I started seeing more and more of these lights coming in my room at night.

然后它们……

And and then they...

我开始害怕了。

I started getting scared.

我记得那之后，我很害怕。

I remember after that time, I was scared.

我动不了。

I couldn't move.

我也没法喊叫，没法叫我的父母。

I couldn't like yell or scream for my parents.

就是那些光会从我房间的两扇窗户进来，然后我就醒过来了。

It was just these lights would come in from both both windows in my room, and then I I would just wake up.

哇。

Wow.

这真的把我吓坏了。

It was it freaked me out.

吓坏了。

Freaked me out.

确实。

Absolutely.

而且我没人可以倾诉这件事。

And I had no one to talk to about it.

所以，当然。

So Sure.

然后我就……

And so I just...

继续过我的日子。

I went about my life.

就像，好吧。

Like, okay.

好吧，这就是我现在的常态了。

Well, this is my normal now.

难以置信。

Unbelievable.

那你有没有觉得，虽然你知道这是你生活中需要面对的事情，对你来说很正常，但你有没有意识到这不是一件正常的事？

So did you feel like even though, you you know, this was something you needed to deal with in your life, like, this was normal for you, did you realize it wasn't a normal thing?

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

我觉得我确实意识到了。

I think I did.

我觉得我确实意识到了。

I think I did.

但是呢……

But it it...

在我的生活里，这很正常。

In my life, it was normal.

而且我确实记得，那些灯光经常出现。

And I can honestly remember those lights happened a lot.

真的吗？

Really?

随着我长大，我经常看到UAP、UFO。

And growing up, as I got older, I saw what UAP's UFO's, I saw them often.

我和我的大女儿还一起看到过。

And my oldest daughter and I have seen them together.

我和我前妻还遇到过一件特别奇怪的事，那是在另一个完全不同的州。

And my my ex wife and I, we had a really weird one in a a completely different state.

从那以后，我就经常看到那些东西。

And so I saw them often after that.

哇。

Wow.

但是那些光，我……

But the lights, I...

它们从来没有停止过。

They they never stopped.

现在好像少了一些，但我……

They seem to have slowed down now, but I...

偶尔我还是会看到它们。

Every now and then I do see them.

当然，这可能只是救护车或者警车来来往往……

And this, of course, maybe it is just emergency vehicles going up and down the

路上。

road.

也许是什么别的东西。

Maybe it is something else.

但每次我看到那些明亮的，像亮红色、紫色、绿色和黄色的光，晚上从窗户射进来，我就会害怕。

But anytime I see these a bright, like, bright red and purple and green and yellow lights, like, streaming in the window, at night, I I get spooked.

我还是有点，就像有那种，我不想说是创伤后应激障碍，因为我觉得那是留给那些经历过真正创伤并且能解释清楚的人，但它几乎就像创伤后应激障碍。

I I still kinda like there's like this, I don't wanna say PTSD because I feel like that's reserved for somebody who's had something really traumatic and they can explain it, but it's almost like it's PTSD.

我会觉得，哎呀，糟糕。

I get like, oh, crap.

什么……

What...

接下来会发生什么？

What's gonna happen now?

当然。

Of course.

不。

No.

而且这确实是一种程度的创伤后应激障碍。

And and it is a level PTSD.

说实话，这简直难以置信，Jas。

It's unbelievable, honestly, Jas.

所以，对于熟悉这个话题的人来说，这听起来就像你被绑架过。

So this would sound like, to someone who's familiar with this subject, it would sound like you've been abducted.

这听起来像是一个经典的绑架场景，有一个三角形的飞行器，难以置信，从你和你的朋友头顶飞过。

Sounds like a classic abduction type of scenario where you have a triangle craft, which is incredible, flying over you and your friend.

你的朋友不愿意谈论这件事。

Your friend doesn't like to talk about it.

就像你说的，他是神职人员。

Like you said, he's part of the clergy.

那是天主教会吗，还是什么类型的……

Is that is that Catholic church, or what what type of...

你能说说吗？

Can you say?

不能。

No.

更具体地说，是福音派基督教浸信会。

Evangelical Christian Baptist, to be more specific.

好的。

Okay.

所以不管怎样，他都是神职人员，而且他不愿意把这件事当作别的什么来讨论，就像你说的，天使或恶魔。

So either way, he's within the clergy and doesn't feel comfortable discussing this as something other than, like you said, angels or demons.

他甚至不想再提这件事了。

He doesn't even like to talk about it anymore.

他有没有主动找过你，跟你聊过别的事情？

Did he ever come to you and talk to you about anything else?

他有没有经历过看到灯光，或者看到过什么东西，还是说自从那次三角形事件之后，他就再也不提了？

Did he ever experience lights or ever experience seen anything, or did he never just talk about it again after that one time with the triangle?

他再也没有提起过那件事。

He never spoke about it again.

有一次我们在学校的时候，我提过一次，那是几年之后了。

I brought it up one time when we were at school, and it was a few years later.

其实那正好是我搬离印第安纳之前。

It was it was actually right before I moved away from, Indiana.

他说，我不想谈那个。

And he was like, I'm not talking about that.

他没有说那事没发生过。

He didn't say it didn't happen.

他说，我不想谈那个。

He's like, I'm not talking about that.

哇。

Wow.

然后他就把话题给掐断了。

And he shut that down.

这太有意思了。

That's fascinating.

这就是为什么我真的很想，当机会出现的时候，就像我在我们对话开始时说的那样，去和像你这样的人交谈，一个普通的日常人，一个在杂货店排队时站在你身后的人，绝不会想到你有这样的故事。

This is why I really want to try, when the opportunity presents itself, as I said at the start of our conversation, to speak to people like you, a normal everyday person, someone would stand behind you in a grocery line at the store and never expect that you have a story like this.

而且有很多像你这样的人，Jas，从小就有这样的经历，但他们从未告诉过任何人。

And there are so many people like you, Jas, who have experiences like these from childhood, and they never tell anybody about them.

这是因为害怕别人用奇怪的眼光看你。

It's it's for fear of people looking at you funny.

这是因为害怕影响你的职业生涯。

It's for fear of affecting your career.

而且，也是因为你自己谈论这件事会感到不舒服。

And also, it's because you're uncomfortable talking about it.

这是让你害怕的事情。

It's something that scares you.

这是你决定深埋心底，试图表现得好像它从未发生过的事情。

It's something that you decided to put deep down inside of you and try to act like maybe it didn't even ever happen.

像你这样的人太多了，所以我特别感谢你今天能来聊这些，因为希望这能帮助其他像你一样的人，Jas，让他们觉得，哎呀，也许我该开始说说我的经历了。

There's so many people like you, and that's why I appreciate you so much coming on here to talk about all this today, because hopefully what this does is maybe helps other people like you, Jas, feel comfortable enough to say, well, shoot.

因为还有其他人也……

Maybe I should start talking about my experience because there's other people that's...

我不是一个人。

I'm not alone.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以我也代表所有正在听、正在想的人说一句，谢谢你今天来做这些，聊这些。

And so I I speak for anybody else who's listening and thinking that where I say thank you for doing this today and and going over this.

当然。

Absolutely.

因为我们确实需要让谈论人生经历这件事变得正常，不只是超自然或UFO，就是单纯的人生经历。

Because we definitely need to normalize just people talking about their life experience in general, not just, you know, paranormal or UFO, just just their life experience.

对人坦诚相待就好。

Just be open and honest with people.

而且我可以这么说，我还是觉得我不想谈这件事，但我确实想谈。

And I I can say I I I still feel like I don't wanna talk about it, but I but I do.

我百分之百理解你的感受。

And I 100% appreciate that.

我想多问你一些关于你小时候看到的那些光的事，就是在你那次和那个生物面对面之后，那些光似乎是你所有经历的起点。

I wanna I wanna ask you a little bit more about the lights that you saw growing up after the face to face with that with that creature that day, which seems like the genesis of your experiences.

你提到了五颜六色的光。

You mentioned multicolored lights.

是不是一直都是这样的？

Has it has it always been like that?

五颜六色的光，它们透过你的窗户照进来，然后你就动弹不了了。

Multicolored lights, they show up shining through your window, and then you're paralyzed.

你动不了。

You can't move.

基本上就是这样发生的，对吧？

Is that pretty much what ends up happening?

总是从……开始。

It always started...

我是说，它开始了。

And and I say it started.

一开始是一道明亮的白光。

It starts with a a bright white light.

好的。

Okay.

总是先出现一道明亮的白光。

It's always a bright white light first.

好的。

Okay.

紧接着，就有各种彩色的光射进房间里。

And then just just just after that, it's these multicolor lights like shooting in the room.

那你有没有记得有人在你房间里？

Now do you ever remember anybody being in your room?

有没有其他生物或东西，还是你只记得有光然后就没了？

Any other beings or creatures, or you just remember a light and then it stops?

有光然后就没了。

A light and then it stops.

所以是……

So is...

你有没有……

Have you...

在那些情况下，你有没有经历过那种突然意识到，等等。

In those scenarios, have you experienced anything where you realize, wait a minute.

比我看到这个的时候已经过了三个小时。

It's three hours later than when I saw this.

你有没有经历过时间丢失，跟这些有关？

Have you had missing time connected with these?

你有吗？

You have?

有过。

I have.

我不能说我曾经看过时间然后想，天哪。

I can't say I've ever looked at like, oh my gosh.

现在是这个时间。

It's this time.

现在又是这个时间。

Now it's this time.

但发生的时候，我会醒来，然后不久之后，外面天已经大亮了。

But when it happens, I'll I'll wake up and then shortly after, it's it's starting to peak daylight outside.

而且我……

And I've...

我会感到非常非常非常累。

I I would feel very, very, very tired.

如果我睡了一整夜，我不会那么累。

And if I slept all night, I I wouldn't have been so tired.

哇。

Wow.

然后……

And...

但是，是的，我不能说它只是二十分钟或者几个小时什么的，但我肯定能……

But, yeah, I can't ever say it's been twenty minutes and a couple hours, what have you, but I can definitely...

有……

There's there...

时间完全消失了。

The absolute loss of time.

你看到头顶飞过的那个三角形时，也感觉到时间消失了吗？

Did you feel that as well with the triangle that flew overhead that you had a loss of time?

说实话，一开始没有。

Not initially, honestly.

直到我低头看的时候才有。

Not until, like, I looked down.

我当时就想，这有点奇怪。

I was like, that's weird.

我们的脚印，你知道，部分被雪覆盖了……

Our our our footprints are know, partially covered in snow...

被雪填满了。

Filled in with snow.

所以那一刻，我就觉得，这有点不寻常。

So at that moment, was like, that's kind of unusual.

但后来，我还清楚地记得我看了看我的绿色Indiglo手表，然后我记得，好吧。

But then also, I distinctly remember looking at my green Indiglo watch, and and I I remembered, like, okay.

我还有……

I have I have an...

我想大概还有一个小时左右，我就得回家了。

I think the time was about another hour ish before I had to be home.

所以我妈说我得在八点前到家。

So my mom said I had to be home by 08:00.

所以确实有一段时间是空白的。

And and so there was definitely a missing time.

然后她在外面大喊大叫让我回家的时候，我就知道已经过了那个时间了。

And then when she's outside yelling and yelling for me to get home, I knew it was past that time.

哇。

Wow.

那在那段时间里到底发生了什么？

So what what happened in in that meantime?

我不记得了……

I don't remember...

我不知道被喊回家时具体是几点，但她确实在外面。

I can't speak to what time it was when I got yelled at to come home, but she was outside.

我记得当我……

When I remember when I...

那个闪回又出现了，我就在那里，我清楚地记得她在喊叫。

That flash happened again and I was there, I distinctly remember her yelling.

所以她已经喊了一段时间了，但我还是被骂了一顿，然后被叫去睡觉。

So she'd already been yelling for a certain amount of time, but I got scolded and told to go to bed.

真有意思。

Fascinating.

再说，听起来你经历的正是那种典型的绑架案。

Again, it sounds like you've experienced the classic abduction type of cases.

再说，从来没有什么东西暗示你，让你产生这些想法或记忆。

Again, There was never anything suggestive to you that would make you have these, you know, thoughts or memories.

这些是你觉得真实的事情，对吧。

These these are things you feel like Right.

你从来没有被植入过这些想法，但你确实觉得自己经历过这些事。

You never had anything to make you have these thoughts implanted in your mind, that you actually feel like you experience these things.

没有什么东西是它的前兆，因为我之前没接触过类似的东西。

Nothing that that was the precursor to it because I wasn't as subjected to anything like that.

直到多年以后，我开始看一些涉及这类主题的电视节目或电影。

Not till years later when I started seeing, like, TV shows or movies that that kinda dealt with the subjects.

就像，哦，那……

Like, oh, that's...

对我来说感觉太真实了。

That feels a little too real to me.

而且我仍然……

And I still...

我……我……

I'm I'm...

电影《火在天上》，很棒的电影。

The movie Fire in the Sky, great movie.

我看它的时候真的很难受，而且我可以……

I have a really hard time watching it, and I could...

我……

I...

我心里知道原因，但总有一部分你一直在怀疑自己。

In my head, I know why, But there's also the part of you that always doubts yourself.

你知道吗？

You know?

我真的经历过……

Did I really did...

那些事吗？

Go through that?

而且我有那些医疗记录，证明我确实发生过什么事。我知道你也看过那些记录，但那些证据确实表明，确实发生了些什么。

And the fact that I have those medical records showing that there was something that happened to me, And I I know I I know you've viewed those as well, but, like, there's the the evidence suggesting, yes, something did happen.

发生了什么？

What happened?

我们也不太清楚。

We don't really know.

但那种节目，我还是不喜欢看。

But those kind of shows, I still don't like watching.

而且我很喜欢恐怖片。

And I love horror movies.

我喜欢悬疑片。

I love mysteries.

我喜欢外星人电影。

I love UFO movies.

但一旦涉及到某些话题，我就会说，不行。

But when it starts getting to certain subjects, I'm like, nope.

哇。

Wow.

完全可以理解。

And totally understandable.

我很高兴你提到医疗记录，因为我接下来正想问你这件事，Jas，就是在那之后，当你觉得自己有什么健康问题时，你是怎么处理的？

I'm glad you brought up the medical records because I wanted to ask you about that next, Jas, and that is where did this go for you when it came to any health issues that you felt like you were having afterwards?

我的意思是，为什么你觉得需要去检查一下，是在这一切发生的时候还是之后？

Mean, why did you feel like you needed to get checked out while all this or after all this was going on?

我从来没想过……

Never my mind...

我做梦都没想到，这件事跟我运动时出问题有关。

Never in my wildest thoughts would I have thought that this this was related to why I was having some problems playing my sports.

我打过棒球。

I I played baseball.

我跑过田径。

I ran track.

我成年后大部分时间都在踢足球……

I played soccer most of my adult...

或者说，我年轻的时候。

Or most of my young young adult.

我开始踢足球。

I started playing soccer.

大概五岁。

I was about five.

二十岁左右才不踢了。

I stopped when I was about 20.

我，我跑过步……

I I ran...

我做过所有这些运动，你知道的。

I did all these, you know, sports.

我一直身材很好。

I was always in great shape.

然后……

And...

但是在那……

But in the...

对，我想是98年、99年，1998、1999年，我的左腿开始很疼。

Right, I'd say '98, '99, 1998, 1999, I started getting a lot of pain in my left leg.

那感觉……

It was...

一开始也不是特别疼……

Wasn't, like, super painful at the...

一开始倒没那么严重，但就是那种烦人的、偶尔像被海豚咬了一下的尖锐疼痛。

Right out of the gate, but it was like this this annoying, sometimes dolphin sharp pain.

而且我那条腿之前也没受过伤，除了有一次滑雪事故，滑雪时左腿过度伸展了。

And I had not had any injuries to that other than I did have a ski accident, a snow skiing accident, where I did hyperextend my left leg.

所以我就想，好吧。

So I was like, okay.

可能跟那次有关。

Maybe it's something related to that.

但我没出过车祸，也没骑摩托车出过事，没有任何真正的创伤，除了那次过度伸展。

But I hadn't had any kind of car accidents, no motorcycle accidents, nothing, no actual, like, trauma to my leg other than just being hyperextended.

但我一直把它跟那次联系起来。

But I kept relating it back to that.

就像，这真的很疼。

Like, this is really hurts.

真的很疼。

It really hurts.

而且那条腿开始有点萎缩了，因为我一直避免用它，你知道，人们通常会那样做。

And and I started getting a little bit more atrophy in that that leg because I was gonna favoring it, you know, what people do, I suppose.

但这开始影响我的运动了。

But it started affecting my my sports.

最后我去找了我妈妈。

And I finally went to my mom.

我说，我得做点什么来解决这个问题。

I was like, I gotta go do I gotta do something about this.

就像，它……

Like, it...

真的很疼。

It's really hurting.

真的影响我打球了。

It's really affecting me playing sports.

然后她说，哦，好的。

And and she's like, oh, okay.

好，我们带你去医院看看。

Well, we'll take you to we'll take you to the doctor.

然后医生给我做了检查。

And so doctor gonna check me out.

他说，没什么问题。

It's like, no.

没有伤口，没有擦伤，也没有淤青……

There's no cuts, no scrapes, no no ink...

什么都看不出来。

Nothing suggests.

肯定是软组织损伤。

Must be a soft tissue injury.

所以我们安排你去拍X光和核磁共振。

So we'll send you in to get x rays and MRI.

全套检查都做一遍。

We'll do the whole nine yards.

所以他们就那么做了。

So they do that.

然后他们问你的一个问题，就是……

And one of the questions they ask you, which was...

我现在想起来还觉得好笑，但这事儿又好笑又不好笑。

I still laugh about it, but it's funny, but it's not funny.

但那个核磁……

But the m r...

做核磁或者X光的时候，他们会问你，你腿里有没有金属？

At the MRI or the x-ray, they ask you, do you have any metal in your leg?

等等之类的。

Blah, blah.

你身体里有没有金属？

Do have any metal in your body?

他们会问你，做核磁、X光什么的。

They'll ask you the MRIs, the X rays, what have you.

我的回答就是，嗯，没有，当然没有。

And my answer is like, well, no, of course not.

我没有任何植入物。

I don't have any implants.

什么都没有。

There's nothing.

从来没做过膝盖置换手术之类的。

Never had a knee replacement, anything like that.

然后他们说，好吧。

And and they're like, okay.

嗯，X光和MRI都是扫描。

Well, they're both scans, the x rays and the MRI.

他们说，你体内有东西，因为MRI一直出问题，总是出现星芒状伪影。

They they're like, well, you got something in there because the MRI won't come out correctly because it keeps starbursting on us.

你腿里肯定有东西。

There's So something in your leg.

所以他们又回去看X光片，然后给我拍了X光，结果发现我左腿里有三块金属。

So they go back to the x rays and they they go do x rays on me and and and there's these three pieces of metal in my left leg.

在我的……

In my...

你知道，一块在我的……

You know, one in my...

小腿前面，也就是胫骨那里，一块……

The front of my front of my calf or my shin, one...

然后还有两块小的。

And then two smaller ones.

嗯，一块长的，一块小的，在大腿上，正好在膝盖附近，就是疼的那个位置。不过话说回来，膝盖本来就是腿疼的常见位置，但当时感觉特别集中在那个点。

Well, one longer, one smaller one in my thigh, right around my knee, right where it was hurting, which again, you could chalk that up to, well, knee is usually where it hurts in your leg, but it felt really localized to that.

然后他们问我，你有没有出过……

And so they asked, did you get me...

她有没有出过车祸或者类似的事？

Did she get me in a car accident or anything like that?

我说，没有。

I'm like, no.

什么都没有。

Nothing.

没做过手术。

No surgeries.

什么都没有。

Nothing.

然后我们……

And we...

医生说，我们真的得把这些取出来。

The doctors are like, we really gotta remove those.

我们不知道那是什么。

We don't know what those are.

你腿里有异物。

There's there's foreign bodies in your leg.

我们得把...

We need to get...

我们得把它们取出来。

We need to remove them.

所以他们做了手术，把它们取出来了。

So they did surgery and and they they removed them.

而且我在那次手术中确实醒过来了，之后还有几次手术我也醒过。

And I I did wake up during that surgery and I I've woken up on a couple of surgeries after that as well.

我还能描述出医生的样子。

And I could describe the doctors.

虽然那跟这个没什么关系，但那次经历非常痛苦。

And so that was nothing really to do with it, but it was very traumatic.

那次手术总体上来说很痛苦。

That surgery was traumatic in general.

哇。

Wow.

但我在手术前问他，嗯，我能不能留着它们？

But I was I asked him like, well, before the surgery, can I can I keep them?

我想留着这些。

I want I want to keep these.

挺酷的。

It's kinda cool.

你知道吗？

You know?

它们看起来就像直别针，像断掉的直别针。

It looks like it looks like straight pins, like broken straight pins.

然后医生说，嗯，我留着也没用。

And so doctor, he's like, well, I I have no use for them.

行。

Sure.

我记得手术后，疼痛几乎立刻就消失了。

And I remember after the surgery, they, that the pain was almost almost instantly gone.

手术的疼痛倒还好，但那种持续的疼痛消失了。

I had that surgical pain, which wasn't that bad, but that that constant, pain was gone.

而且，他让我留下了那些东西。

And, but he let me keep them.

我醒来的时候。

I woke up.

我在恢复室里。

I was in recovery room.

然后我……

And I...

这个……

This...

那个小罐子就在我旁边。

The little jar was right next to me.

我跟我妈说了一句话。

And I made a comment to my mom.

她当时就在那儿。

She was there.

然后我说，哦，所以你让我留着它们了？

And I said, oh, so you let me keep them?

她说，对，对，它们就在那儿。

And she's like, yeah, yeah, they're they're right there.

然后，我不知道这里有多少人……

And, well, I don't how many people here...

你们的听众……

Your list...

经历过手术，可能大多数都有。

Listeners been through surgery, probably most of them.

但在恢复室里，通常不是真正的房间。

But in your recovery room, oftentimes, it's not like a really room.

更像是……

It's more like a...

他们只是把那个小帘子拉上，然后就这样。

Just they they pull this little curtain shut, and Yeah.

你还能看到外面。

You can still see outside.

护士会看到你偷偷往外看。

The nurse is gonna see you kinda peek around.

好吧，我知道这听起来有点离谱，但我……

Well, I know this is gonna sound farfetched, but I...

那里站着几个人，看起来不太像他们该出现的地方。

There was there was some guys standing there that didn't look like they they belonged.

他们穿着西装。

They were wearing suits.

他们看起来不太像该出现在那里的人。

They didn't look like they belonged.

他们有点朝我这边看。

They kinda looked over at me.

他们抬头看了看……

They looked up...

我也回看了他们一眼。

I looked back.

他们……

They...

好像他们不是……

Like, they weren't...

感觉他们对我并不是很感兴趣，但他们确实看了我一眼，然后又转过身去了。

Didn't seem like they're really interested in me, but they looked right at me then turned back around.

然后……

And...

但他们没有跟任何人说话。

But they weren't talking to anybody.

就那两个男的。

There was just two of the guys.

有两个男的，就他们俩。

There's two guys by themselves.

穿着西装。

In suits.

然后我妈走了。

And my mom left.

她说，对，穿着西装。

She's like, yeah, in suits.

他们穿的是深色西装。

And they were in dark suits.

我不能说一定是黑色西装。

I can't I can't say they were black suits.

好的。

Okay.

但确实是深色的西装。

But they were darker suits.

那我们就到这里，第一部分就结束了。

And that's where we're going to end part one.

我知道这有点悬念，但我真的很期待你们听下一部分，因为我们会直接回到那些穿黑西装的人的故事。

I know kind of a cliffhanger there, but I I can't wait for you to hear the next part because we go right back into it when it comes to those men in the black suits.

显然，你知道那听起来像什么，而且说实话，事情变得更奇怪了，信不信由你。

Obviously, you know what it sounds like, and it gets stranger actually, believe it or not.

现在，在我们结束之前，我想提两件事。

Now obviously, look, there's two things I want to mention here before we're done.

第一件就是第二部分有什么值得期待的。

Number one would be what to look forward to in part two.

当然，就像我说的，我们会讲到那个故事的结局，关于那些穿黑西装的人，在Jas膝盖手术取出金属碎片后，他们就在医院里。

Of course, like I say, we come to the conclusion of that story concerning the men in the black suits who are at the hospital right after that surgery to take out the pieces of metal shards in Jas' knee.

你会……

You'll...

所以我们会听到那个故事的结局。

So we'll hear the conclusion of that story.

然后我们会更深入地聊他的经历，当然，还有从那以后发生的其他事情。

And then we get more into his experiences, of course, what else has happened since then.

接着我们还会谈到他的职业生涯，他在哪里工作很关键，以及他在那些地方看到了什么。

And then we also talk about his professional life and where he worked is key here and then what he saw at these places.

所有这些的顶点，真的让我想到下一点，那就是我们为什么要相信他？

The culmination of all this is really something which takes me to my next point which is why should we believe him?

你听完可能会说，嗯，斯蒂芬，他可能只是为了上你的节目编了个故事。

You could easily listen to this and say, Well, you know, Stephen, he's probably just making up the story to be on your show.

这种猜测性的看法完全合理。

And that's a perfectly fair speculative opinion to have.

如果有人有很多怀疑，不相信，我完全理解。

I totally understand if someone has a ton of speculation, they don't believe it.

可能有人就是想质疑别人说的所有内容。

It might be someone who just wants to question all of what someone is saying.

我完全明白。

I totally get it.

如果是这样，那你就是个怀疑论者。

You're a skeptic if that's the case.

或者你听着听着会说，天哪，我也经历过类似的事情，而且从来没跟任何人说过，我简直不敢相信他说的正是我经历过的那些事。

Or if you're listening and saying, Oh my gosh, I've had stuff like this happen to me and I've never told anybody about it, and I can't believe he's explaining things that have happened to me before.

我以为只有我一个人这样。

I thought I was alone in all this.

现在听到有人跟我有相似的经历。

Now I'm hearing somebody who's had similar experiences to me.

也许你会觉得更有勇气了。

Maybe you feel emboldened.

也许现在你觉得自己不再孤单，愿意站出来跟别人聊聊这件事。

Maybe now you feel like you're not alone in this and you're comfortable coming out and talking to somebody about it.

这里有两种截然不同的情况。

There's two sides of the spectrum here.

所以我理解，如果你带着怀疑的态度听这个，心里会想，我凭什么相信这个人呢？

So I understand if you listen to this with a skeptical ear and you think to yourself, Well, what reason do I have to believe this guy?

他就是个普通人。

He's just this normal guy.

把所有内容综合起来，听完整两集，坦白说，你甚至可以从第一部分就开始形成自己的看法。

Well, put it all together, listen to both parts, and quite frankly, you can even start to form an opinion from that first part.

我的意思是，你听得出他并不夸张。

I mean, you hear he's not sensational.

这个人，根据我从Jas那里了解到的，以及我过去几个月和他交谈的个人感受，再加上我们一起做采访的经历，他就是一个无意中经历了这些事的人。

This is a guy, what I gathered from Jas, just my personal read and talking to him over the past few months and then of course doing the interview together, This was somebody who was an unwitting experience.

他当时不明白自己身上发生了什么，也不知道该怎么理解，甚至觉得没法跟任何人说。

He didn't understand what was happening to him, and he didn't know how to make sense of it, and he didn't feel like he could even talk to anybody about it.

所以在我看来，他不是那种想出名的人。

So this wasn't, in my opinion, this is not a guy who is looking for fame.

他不是那种想上乔·罗根或者其他大节目的人。

This is not a guy who's trying to get on, you know, Joe Rogan or any other big show.

他也不是急着要上杰西·迈克尔斯、克里斯·拉姆齐或者其他什么节目的人。

He's not clamoring to get on, you know, Jesse Michaels or Chris Ramsey or any other show.

他甚至一开始还有点害怕，或者说是犹豫，我不该说害怕，但就是犹豫要不要联系我来讲他的故事。

He was even, you know, scared about or hesitant, I shouldn't say scared, but hesitant about reaching out to me in the first place just to tell his story.

他在邮件里并没有说，嘿，我能上你的节目聊聊这件事吗？

In the email, he didn't say, Hey, can I come on your show and talk about it?

就像我在开头说的，他之所以来聊这件事，完全是因为我先跟他提的。

Like I said at the start of it, the only reason he came on to talk about it is because I brought it up to him.

我觉得这是一个值得讲的故事，让那些从未听过他声音的人能听到他的经历。

I felt like this was an important story to tell for people to hear from somebody that they've never heard from before.

我们太习惯听那些人了，我不是说这有什么不好，我只是说事实，我们太习惯听同一批人说话了。

We're so used to hearing from and I don't mean this in a negative way, I just mean it in a fact we're so used to hearing from the same people.

所以某种程度上，当我们习惯了听同一批人、同一批目击者说话时，有时候会发生的情况是，我们会把他们的故事拆解开来，他们的话开始变得没人听，因为听起来就像白噪音一样。

So in some terms, when we're used to hearing from the same people, the same witnesses, sometimes what ends up happening is we pull their story apart and their words start to fall on deaf ears because it starts to sound like white noise.

你反复听到的都是同一批人。

You're hearing from the same people over and over again.

再说一遍，我不是说这有什么不好。

And again, don't mean that in a negative way.