特朗普时期的移民和海关执法局

我是阿耶莎·罗斯科，这里是《Up First》的周日特辑，我们将超越日常新闻，为您带来一则重要报道。特朗普总统在竞选时曾承诺大规模驱逐非法移民。自他1月上任以来，移民与海关执法局（简称ICE）的探员们一直在增加拘留人数以实现这一目标。7月，国会批准了1700亿美元用于移民和边境执法，其中750亿美元将直接拨给ICE。这是美国政府有史以来在拘留和驱逐方面投入的最大资金，使ICE成为联邦政府中资金最充裕的执法机构。

I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday story from Up First where we go beyond the news of the day to bring you one big story. President Trump campaigned on a promise of mass deportations. And since he took office in January, agents from immigration and customs enforcement, also known as ICE, have been increasing detentions to try to meet that goal. In July, Congress approved a $170,000,000,000 for immigration and border enforcement, $75,000,000,000 of which will go directly to ICE. It's the most money the US government has ever invested in detention and deportation, and it makes ICE the highest funded law enforcement agency in the federal government.

这一切促使我们在NPR《Throughline》播客的朋友们回顾了ICE的历史——从该机构最初的宗旨到其演变为执法巨头的历程。本期节目采访了两位在移民体系对立面工作数十年的专业人士。

All this prompted our friends over at NPR's Throughline podcast to take a look back at the history of ICE from the original intent of the agency to its evolution as a law enforcement powerhouse. The episode features two people who've spent decades working on opposite sides of the immigration system.

我认为要保持系统公平，就必须有完善的监管机制。

You know, I think there's a to keep the system fair, it has to be well regulated.

罗杰·沃纳目前就职于国土安全部。自2003年2月该部门成立以来他就在此工作，是ICE的创始成员之一。他还是《美国国土安全的历史与演变》一书的合著者。他所表达的观点纯属个人意见，不代表政府立场。

Roger Werner is currently employed by the Department of Homeland Security. He's worked there since the department was created in 02/2003, and he was a founding member of ICE. He's also the coauthor of the book The History and Evolution of Homeland Security in The United States. The views he expresses are his own. He's not speaking as a representative of the government.

他们还采访了彼得·马科维茨。

They also talked to Peter Markowitz.

我是纽约市卡多佐法学院的教授。

I'm a professor at Cardoza School of Law in New York City.

马科维茨创立了凯瑟琳·O·格林伯格移民司法诊所，为面临驱逐的移民提供辩护并参与政策制定。在《Throughline》节目中，沃纳和马科维茨带领听众探索了ICE从二十世纪移民归化局（INS）时期开始的迷人历史，并探讨了特朗普政府上任后2025年以来的变化。我们将播放关于过去一年变化的节目尾声部分，但我强烈推荐您收听《Throughline》播客的完整内容，它为当下局势提供了关键的历史背景。稍后我们将连线节目主持人兰德·阿卜杜勒·法塔赫，从2025年初继续讲述这个故事。

Markowitz founded the Catherine O Greenberg Immigration Justice Clinic, where he defends immigrants facing deportation and works on policy. In the Through Line episode, Werner and Markowitz take listeners through the fascinating history of ICE, starting from his origins as the Immigration and Naturalization Service or the INS, stretching back into the twentieth century. And they also explore the question of what's changed in 2025 since the Trump administration took office. We're gonna play that final part of the episode about what's changed over the past year, but I strongly recommend that you check out the full episode on the Throughline podcast because it offers critical historical context for the moment we're now in. We'll be back with Throughline host, Rand Abdel Fattah, who will pick up the story at the beginning of 2025.

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Hey. It's Mike Danforth, executive producer of Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. Here's a great way to get the perks of being an NPR producer without doing any of the work. Join NPR Plus. With NPR Plus, you get extended interviews, inside looks at your favorite shows, and more, all while supporting NPR and never having to pull an all nighter.

或者如果您在新闻节目组工作，连早班都不用上了。

Or if you work on one of the news shows, an all morninger.

立即注册+.npr.org。联邦政府停摆之际，议员们在争论什么？这对您意味着什么？NPR政治播客每日为您解读最新动态，提供资讯更新。NPR政治播客。

Sign up at +.npr.org. The federal government has shut down. What are lawmakers arguing about, and what does it mean for you? The NPR Politics Podcast is here to make sense of it all, you updates and news every day to keep you informed. The NPR Politics Podcast.

每日收听。

Listen every day.

我要送他三个字：肌肉震慑。你们将见证我们夺回这个国家。

I got three words for him. Jock and awe. You're gonna see us take this country back.

震慑行动——这正是Tom Homan为特朗普政府第二任期驱逐政策定下的基调。特朗普总统正在推行大规模驱逐计划。

Shock and awe. That is how Tom Homan kicked off the Trump administration's second term approach deportations. President Trump is pushing through a mass deportation campaign.

移民突袭行动正在增加

Immigration raids are up

遍布全国各地。

all across the country.

特朗普总统已调遣数千名国民警卫队士兵和数百名海军陆战队员前往洛杉矶。

Thousands of National Guard troops and hundreds of marines have been called to Los Angeles by president Trump.

全副武装、身着便装且戴着面具的探员们频繁出现在拉丁裔工人聚集的场所——五金店停车场、洗车行、街头摊贩角落，实施围捕行动。他们在公交站台抓人，甚至将人们从车里拖出来。

Agents often armed wearing plain clothes and masks are showing up at places where Latino workers are known to gather. Hardware store parking lots, car washes, street vendor corners, and rounding them up. They've grabbed people at bus stops or dragged them out of their cars.

过去几个月里，美国人仿佛到处都能看到移民执法局的身影。刷Instagram或TikTok时，总会看到这样的视频：戴着发网的肉类加工厂工人被移民局探员赶进休息室，一名女子被押上白色卡车时哭泣，黑色执法车在抗议人群推搡引擎盖时加速离开。

For the past few months, it's felt like Americans are seeing ice everywhere. It's been hard to scroll Instagram or TikTok without hitting a video. Of workers in hair nets at a meat packing plant being herded into a break room by ICE agents. A woman crying as she's put into a white truck. A black ice van accelerating as a group of protesters pushes against its hood.

部分视频由移民局自行发布。探员的面部被打码，而被拘留者则清晰可见。移民律师兼法学教授彼得·马科维茨表示，他在网络和实际工作中目睹的这一幕，是他在移民执法局历史上从未经历过的特殊时刻。

Some of the videos are posted by ICE itself. The ICE agents' faces are blurred. The people they're detaining are not. Immigration attorney and law professor Peter Markowitz says this moment, what he's seen unfolding online and in his own work, is unlike anything he's experienced in ICE's history.

我能列举的现象包括：非移民执法机构、国民警卫队及其他军警部门以大规模、高压且高调的方式介入。这种执法模式在我从事移民工作以来前所未见，甚至在我有生之年都闻所未闻。

The examples I might point to are like the deployment of non immigration agents, National Guard, other military and law enforcement agencies in a kind of sweeping heavy handed, very visible, manner. That is something that is unfamiliar to me, in in what I have seen in immigration enforcement in the time that I've been doing this work and really in any time in my lifetime.

自特朗普总统第二任期开始以来，移民与海关执法局(ICE)平均每天逮捕超过600名移民。在某些州，这一数字是往常的两倍多。尽管政府律师表示并无配额，但特朗普的副幕僚长斯蒂芬·米勒设定了每日拘留3000人的目标。这意味着每年总逮捕人数将超过100万。其影响正在全球范围内扩散。

Since the start of President Trump's second term, ICE is averaging more than 600 immigration arrests every day. In some states, that's more than double the usual amount. Though government attorneys say there's no quota, Trump's deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, has set a goal of 3,000 detentions per day. That would mean a total of more than 1,000,000 arrests every year. The repercussions are rippling out globally.

今年三月，特朗普政府将数百名移民遣送至萨尔瓦多一处臭名昭著的设施。七月，又将八名在美国被判有罪的移民驱逐至南苏丹——其中仅一人原籍该国。彼得·马科维茨指出，自ICE成立之初，其部分工作始终与形象塑造有关。这一点得到了历史学家兼国土安全部雇员罗杰·沃纳的认同。

In March, the Trump administration sent hundreds of immigrants to a notorious facility in El Salvador. And in July, it deported eight immigrants who'd been convicted of crimes in The US to South Sudan. Only one of them was from there. Peter Markowitz says that as far back as its creation, some of ICE's work has always been about optics. And this is where historian and DHS employee Roger Werner agrees.

作为一名研究者和普通公民，他认为以如此高的比率拘留移民，甚至将其驱逐至毫无关联的国家，可能形成强大的威慑力。

Speaking as a researcher and private citizen, he argues that detaining immigrants at such high rates and even deporting them to countries they have no attachment to could be a powerful deterrent.

我建议你们有空去西南边境看看。想象一下像老太太或小孩那样徒步50英里（约80公里）。整整50英里。哇。

I recommend you all go to the Southwest Border sometime. Imagine walking 50 miles like like an old lady or or or a kid. 50 miles. Wow.

但这难道不正表明了他们的绝望程度吗？为了这个不惜如此？

But that I mean, but that doesn't that transmit a level of, like, desperation on their part to to do that?

确实。但这也取决于你愿意承担多大的风险。让小孩经历这些——成年男性越境时说'听着，我会寄钱，我们再想办法'完全可以理解。

Yes. But it also is the the amount of risk you would take. You put your kid through that. It's one thing an adult male going across to say, hey. Listen.

但把四岁幼童可能交给走私集团，那些以贩毒集团为背景的人，他们绝对凶残至极。

I'll send you money. We'll figure out how how to get here. I can totally understand that. But, you know, and putting a four year old child maybe in the hands of a a smuggling organization, a cartel based, these people are absolutely brutal.

不，我明白你的意思。我想，在我心里，我有个两岁的孩子。

No. I hear you. I guess I guess in my mind then, I'm like, I have a two year old.

是的。

Yeah.

但我在想，是什么会让我把他置于那种境地？除非我目前的处境已经糟糕到那种程度，这就是我大脑的运作方式。

But I think about it. I'm like, what would compel me to ever put him in that situation? It would be things have gotten so bad in my present circumstances would be like, that's just how in my brain, that's how it works.

对，我完全理解。但你也得问自己，风险值得回报吗？意思是，你有可能留在美国吗？这才是真正的驱动力。

Right. I totally understand it. But you also have to say, is the risk worth the reward? Meaning, are you likely to remain in The United States? That's the real driver.

驱动力不在于你要拿孩子冒险，而在于你是否会——对吧。

The driver isn't that, you know, where you're gonna risk your children. It's are you gonna Right.

如果另一边没有值得的东西。是的。

If there isn't something worth it on the other side. Yeah.

我懂你的意思。如果你展示并说明——我们这里是在理论上讨论，我并未参与这些行动——如果你展示并说明，嘿，无论你做什么都不会被允许进入。

I hear you. If you show and say and we're talking theoretically here. I was not involved in these operations. If you show and say that, hey. You're not gonna be allowed in no matter what you do.

你会变卖一切去尝试吗？不会。你会寻找其他替代方案。

Would you sell everything and try? No. You would look for another alternative.

我们向ICE询问了此事。ICE在回应我们问题的声明中部分写道，引述，令人困惑的是竟有人质疑一个国家执行国会制定的法律以威慑犯罪的决定，引述结束。彼得·马科维茨表示，撇开表象不谈，他注意到ICE运作中另外两个重大变化。第一个与案件进入法庭时的司法程序有关。

We asked ICE about this. A statement from ICE in response to our questions read in part, quote, it's baffling that anyone would even question a nation's decision to enforce laws enacted by congress to deter crime, end quote. Peter Markowitz says, optics aside, he's noticed two other major changes in ICE's operations. The first has to do with the judicial process when cases go to court.

你知道，如果你去曼哈顿联邦广场26号的移民法庭——我经常在那里代理客户——那里发生的情况与我以往所见截然不同。该机构正着手终止案件，通常如果你代理移民客户，案件终止意味着胜利。但这里的计划是绕过移民法庭，利用司法外机制驱逐人员。他们可以采用称为‘加速遣返’的机制，这种机制下ICE既当法官、陪审团又当行刑者。

You know, if you go to the immigration court at 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan, where where I often represent clients, what is happening there is is different than what I have ever seen before. The agency is moving to terminate cases, which normally, if you're representing an immigrant, the termination of a case is a victory. But the the plan here is to bypass the immigration courts and to use extra judicial mechanisms to deport people. So they can use a mechanism called expedited removal. And it's a mechanism where ICE gets to act as the judge, jury, and executioner.

他们不需要任何移民法官，且几乎不受联邦法院审查。基本上由探员自行决定某人将被驱逐，几乎不经过正当程序。因此他们终止这些案件，目的是启用替代机制——尽管移民法官已启动程序且当事人完全遵守该程序。

They don't need any immigration judge, and there is very little federal court review available. And, you know, in agent kind of determines on their own that this person is gonna be deported with with almost no due process. And so they move to terminate these cases for the purpose of using that alternative mechanism, notwithstanding the fact that an immigration judge has kind of, you know, has a process underway and the person is fully compliant with that process.

这种现象正在全国范围内发生。ICE在回应我们问题的声明中部分写道，引述，ICE现在依法将这些非法移民纳入加速遣返程序，这本应是常态。若其可信恐惧申请有效，将继续移民诉讼程序；若未发现有效申请，将面临快速驱逐，引述结束。自ICE拘留人数激增以来，不断有关于拘留中心过度拥挤、卫生条件恶劣及食物短缺的报道。

This is happening around the country. A statement from ICE in response to our questions read in part, quote, ICE is now following the law and placing these illegal aliens in expedited removal, as they always should have been. If they have a valid credible fear claim, they will continue in immigration proceedings. But if no valid claim is found, aliens will be subject to a swift deportation, end quote. Since ICE's detention numbers began to rapidly increase, there have been reports of overcrowding, poor sanitation, and lack of food at ICE detention centers.

彼得表示所有这些都发生在原本条件就很差的场所。你去过那些设施吗？

Peter says all of this is happening at places where conditions were poor to begin with. Have you ever been to one of those facilities?

哦，去过很多次。

Oh, many times.

你知道，那些设施内部是什么样子的？

What what is it like, you know, inside one of those facilities?

与我经常探访的监狱和拘留所毫无区别。事实上，有时它们就是完全相同的设施。那里的医疗护理质量极差，人们经常因为医疗不足而死在移民拘留所。有几家大型私营监狱公司管理着其中大部分设施。

It is indistinguishable from the jails and prisons that I've also routinely visited. In fact, sometimes they're exactly the same facilities. You know, there are medical care of the poorest quality. People routinely die in immigration detention because of inadequate medical care. There's a couple of big private prison companies that manage the majority of these.

出于盈利动机，有时你必须为肥皂或牙膏之类的东西付费。所以实际上提供给人们的是最基础的生活物资。

And through a profit motive, sometimes you have to pay for things like soap or pay for things like toothpaste. And so it is really kind of the most minimal provisions that are provided to folks.

稍后我们将继续收听Throughline节目，与Rund Abdel Fattah探讨ICE的历史与演变。

We'll be right back with more of Throughline's conversation about the history and evolution of ICE with Rund Abdel Fattah.

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When someone you love is diagnosed with cancer or another serious illness, all you wanna do is help. But where do you start? On the Life Kit podcast, we have tips for you.

你的行动准则应该是：我会陪伴你，全然接纳可能发生的一切。

Your agenda should be, I'm gonna be with you and be totally present to whatever comes up.

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Listen in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts for different ways to offer support.

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彼得观察到的特朗普总统第二任期开始后的第二大变化是资金。这项宏伟法案将超过1750亿美元用于移民执法。若不计美国和中国，这笔金额超过世界上任何国家一年的军费开支。仅ICE就将获得其中的750亿美元。罗杰斯表示，美国选民通过投票选择总统时，就决定了我们移民执法系统的面貌。

The second major change Peter has seen since the beginning of president Trump's second term is money. The one big beautiful bill is directing more than a $175,000,000,000 to immigration enforcement. If you leave out The US and China, that's more than any country in the world spends on its military in a year. ICE alone is set to get $75,000,000,000 of that money. Rogers says American voters are the ones who decided what our immigration enforcement system looks like when they cast their votes for president.

彼得表示新资金使情况复杂化。

Peter says the new funding complicates that.

我认为即使是我——整天都在思考这些问题的人——也很难想象这在美国街头会是什么景象。需要明确的是，这750亿美元可以分多年使用。我们知道他们将建造大量移民拘留设施，拘留规模将极其庞大。

I think it is it is really difficult even for me, and I spend all day long thinking about this stuff to wrap my head around and what that's gonna look like on American streets. And to be clear, the 75,000,000,000 can be spent over several years. We know they're gonna build a ton of immigration detention. The scale of detention is gonna be astronomical.

他们

They

将在街头部署大量类似军事化特工的人员。我预计这会成为常态，我们会看到检查站。我担心这种资金规模远超以往，我们正面临真正沦为警察国家的风险。我们已经看到ICE在认为有必要时毫不犹豫地对公民采取行动。因此，我认为越来越多的人将以一种非常直观的方式感受到这一点。

are gonna have massive physical presence of like militarized agents on the streets. I anticipate that that's gonna become a norm. I anticipate that we're gonna be seeing checkpoints, you know, and so I fear that level of funding is so out of scale with what has come before that we are at real risk of kind of becoming a police state. And we've already seen that ICE, you know, doesn't hesitate to move against citizens when it perceives the need to do so. So I I think increasingly, people are gonna feel that in a very, very kind of visceral way.

对于该机构而言，获得如此巨额的资金流入意味着什么？

What does that mean for the agency to have that kind of influx of funding?

从历史角度看，我认为这意味着重大责任——要明智地使用美国纳税人的钱。确保资金得到最优利用而不被浪费。如此巨额资金快速注入一个机构是重大责任，我希望历史上能妥善处理这笔资金。这既要服务于美国人民和国家的利益，也要保障被拘留者的权益。

A lot of responsibility, I would say, from a historical perspective, is spend the American taxpayers money wisely. Yeah. Make sure that they're getting the best use of their money and it's not wasted. It's a big responsibility that amount of money coming into an agency quickly that, you know, I hope historically, the right thing is done with it. You know, that serves both the American people, the interests of The United States, and the people that are taken into custody.

他们理应享有国会立法所赋予的各项权利。

You know, they deserve they deserve the rights that are available to them under the laws that congress has passed.

尽管ICE获得大量资金并伴随相应责任，罗杰认为此刻与ICE乃至前身INS的历史并无本质不同。

But in spite of all the money heading ICE's way and the responsibility that comes with it, Roger doesn't think this moment is fundamentally different from the rest of ICE's history or, for that matter, INS's.

这并非特例。多年来这些变化都源于资金支持、国会行政与政治支持，且主要反映民意。移民政策约每三十年就会波动一次——当我们过于宽松导致民众觉得被利用时，就会要求更强硬手段或全面审查。

This is nothing out of the ordinary. None of this has been out of the ordinary over the years as it's been a result of funding and congressional and executive and political support, and largely driven by the American people. This comes in waves about every thirty years. With our immigration policy, we become too generous and people feel that we're being taken advantage of. So then they want a more firm hand or, you know, thorough examination of things.

总存在钟摆效应，但必须保持威慑力，因为美国无法接纳所有人。立场不同评价自然相异。若主张完全开放边境，但这并非主流民意——民调显示多数美国人希望保持某种程度的移民执法。

There's always a pendulum swing, but there is, you do have to have a deterrent because we can absorb everybody inside The United States. So it depends on where you sit on the issue is how you're gonna judge that, I guess. You know? If you think we should let in everybody, then, you know but that's not what the majority of the American public believe in. So that's not where the polls are.

民众期望某种形式的移民执法，具体形式则如同钟摆始终摇摆不定。

They want some degree of immigration enforcement. What that looks like, that's always a you know, that's that pendulum swinging back and forth.

彼得持不同意见。他表示，如果你查看当前的民意调查，会发现大多数美国人实际上反对如今ICE（移民和海关执法局）实施的那种移民执法方式。他担忧我们已进入一个ICE权力不断膨胀的时代，而对其权力的制约正在消失。

Peter disagrees. He says, if you look at current polls, you'll see that most Americans actually oppose the kind of immigration enforcement that's being carried out by ICE today. And he worries that we've entered an era where ICE is amassing more and more power, and he feels like the checks on that power are disappearing.

在特朗普的第一届政府期间，白宫、司法部和国土安全部中还有一些体制内的参与者会说：等等，我们必须遵守法律。但现在这些人都已不在其位了。

In the first Trump administration, you know, there were, you know, institutional players in the White House and DOJ and DHS, you know, said, wait. Wait. Wait. We have to follow the law. Those people are all gone.

现在内部已经没有任何制衡机制了。除此之外，还有什么其他制约力量？移民法庭正在被清洗，任何不站队的人都被排挤出去。我曾寄望最高法院能对最极端的案例形成某种制约。

Like, there are no internal internal checks going on anymore. Beyond that, what are the other checks? The immigration courts are being purged. Anybody who is not aligned is being pushed out. What I had hoped was that the Supreme Court may actually provide some kind of check against the most extreme examples.

除了一两个显著的例外，事实并非如此。对吧？他们一再允许将人们驱逐到从未去过或毫无关联的国家，批准撤销数十万TPS（临时保护身份）持有者——包括委内瑞拉人的身份，剥夺数十万人的人道主义保护。

And with one or two notable exceptions, that has really not been the case. Right? Over and over again, they're letting them remove people to countries they have never come from or had any connection to. They're allowing the revocation of hundreds of thousands of TPS holders, status Venezuelans. They're stripping hundreds of thousands of people of humanitarian protections.

因此最高法院也起不到最后防线的作用。内部没有制约，移民法庭没有制约，最高法院也没有制约。作为一个国家，我们正处于极其危险的境地。

And so the Supreme Court is no backstop either. And so no internal backstop, no immigration court backstop, no Supreme Court backstop. We are in a really, really, really precarious place as a country.

我想告诉听众们，你们必须明白这些机构的工作人员——特别是移民海关执法局的成员——已将毕生奉献给了公共服务事业。

I would impart to the listeners that you really have to understand that the men and women who work for these agencies, especially immigration customs enforcement, have dedicated their life to public service.

汤姆·霍曼一直在说：等着瞧吧，我们才刚刚开始。我相信他的话。

Tom Homan keeps saying, just wait, just wait, we're just getting started. And I believe him.

要收听完整节目，您可以在任何获取播客的地方找到《Through Line》。在那里，您还可以查看《Through Line》近期关于移民系列的其余内容。本期节目由Rund Abdel Fattah和Sarah Wyman制作，并得到《Throughline》团队其他成员的协助。由Casey Minor编辑。Andrew Mambo制作了本期《周日故事》。

To hear the full episode, you can find Through Line wherever you get your podcasts. There, you can also check out the rest of Through Line's recent immigration series. This episode was produced by Rund Abdel Fattah and Sarah Wyman with help from the rest of the Throughline team. It was edited by Casey Minor. Andrew Mambo produced this episode of the Sunday story.

《周日故事》团队的其他成员包括Ginny Schmidt、Justine Yan、Thomas Coltrane和Liana Semstrom。我们的执行制作人是Irene Noguchi。我是Ayesha Roscoe，首先，我们明天将带着您开启一周所需的所有新闻回来。在那之前，祝您周末愉快。

The rest of the Sunday story team includes Ginny Schmidt, Justine Yan, Thomas Coltrane, and Liana Semstrom. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. I'm Ayesha Roscoe, and up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

想听没有广告插播的播客吗？亚马逊Prime会员可以通过亚马逊音乐无广告收听《Up First》，或者您也可以支持NPR的重要新闻报道，并通过plus.npr.org获取《Up First Plus》。网址是plus.npr.org。

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's Vital Journalism and get Up First Plus at plus.npr.org. That's plus.npr.org.

美国的全球角色正在快速转变。在《Sources and Methods》中，我们将解释这一变化的方式和原因。我是Mary Louise Kelly。我曾与间谍交谈，也曾从战区发回报道。

America's global role is shifting fast. On sources and methods, we explain how and why. I'm Mary Louise Kelly. I've talked to spies. I've reported from war zones.

我采访过大使、将军、总统。想要了解世界各地正在发生的事情及其对我们的影响吗？加入我和我的记者同事们，我们将为您解析一切。在NPR应用或任何获取播客的地方收听《Sources and Methods》。

I've interviewed ambassadors, generals, presidents. Wanna understand what is happening around the world and how it affects us? Join me and my fellow reporters as we break it down for you. Listen to sources and methods on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

在《LifeKit》，我们认真对待建议。我们为您带来基于证据的推荐。为此，我们会与研究各种主题的研究人员和专家交谈。因为我们和您有同样的疑问。比如，我的洗发水里到底有什么？

Here at LifeKit, we take advice seriously. We bring you evidence based recommendations. And to do that, we talk with researchers and experts on all sorts of topics. Because we have the same questions you do. Like, what's really in my shampoo?

或者，我应该让孩子退出足球队吗？或者，在经济不确定时期，我该如何处理我的储蓄？您可以在NPR应用或任何获取播客的地方收听NPR的《Life Kit》。

Or should I let my kid quit soccer? Or what should I do with my savings in uncertain economic times? You can listen to NPR's life kit in the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.