明尼苏达移民与海关执法局、伊朗抗议、司法部传唤美联储

天啊。

Oh my god.

我很高兴没穿高跟鞋。

I am so glad not to be wearing heels.

我穿了十二个小时的高跟鞋。

I wore heels for twelve hours.

你穿了这么久啊。

You've wearing them a long time.

好吧，a。

Okay, a.

我们会在参加完金球奖后录制这期播客，你知道的，就像我们每个星期一做的那样。

We're gonna host this podcast after going to the Golden Globes, you know, like we do every Monday.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们输了。

We lost.

我的意思是，我们没赢。

I mean, we didn't win.

但是

But

我们确实没赢。

We didn't.

不过，那还是个美好的夜晚。

Still, it was a nice night.

但公共广播去了好莱坞。

But public radio went to Hollywood.

确实如此。

And So true.

在播客类别中，这是有史以来第一次。

In the podcast category, first time ever.

在那个类别里，我们是唯一一个新闻类播客，没错。

And in that category, we were the one news podcast Yeah.

这在巨大压力下为公众提供信息。

That informs the public often under intense pressure.

我们的记者遍布全球。

Our journalists are around the world.

今天，我们要谈论伊朗、美联储以及所有这些事情。

Today, we're gonna be talking about Iran and the Fed and all of these things.

就在我们身处这个奢华房间时，我想到我们代表了全球记者、编辑和制作人艰难的工作，他们总在非人的时间来到这里。

And I was just thinking about that when we were in this glamorous room, that we were representing the difficult work of our journalists around the world, of our editors and producers that come in here at an ungodly hour.

我为此感到自豪，也很荣幸能代表他们。

And I'm proud of that, and I was proud to represent that.

是的。

Yeah.

而且听到这么多人支持我们，感觉真好。

And it was nice to hear so many people support us too.

那真的很好。

That was that was really nice.

你知道什么意思吗？

You know what mean?

虽然我们并没有，像，带个奖杯回家，是吧。

Even though we didn't, like, go home with a trophy Yeah.

至少，我们得到了满场的支持，这听起来真的很棒。

At the least, we had the support of the room, which was really nice to hear.

而且我们还有所有听众的支持。

And we have the support of all our listeners.

是的。

Yeah.

就是这样。

There we go.

特朗普政府正向明尼苏达州派遣数百名额外的联邦特工。

The Trump administration is sending hundreds of additional federal agents into Minnesota.

在37岁的雷妮·古德被移民与海关执法局特工杀害后，周末抗议活动仍在继续。

Protests continued over the weekend after 37 year old Renee Goode was killed by an ICE agent.

明尼阿波利斯如何应对联邦部队的增加？

How is Minneapolis responding to the surge of federal forces?

我是莱拉·法迪尔。

I'm Leila Faldil.

这是A。

That's A.

马丁内斯，以下是来自NPR新闻的头条。

Martinez, and this is up first from NPR News.

在特朗普总统威胁要因伊朗对全国抗议活动的致命镇压而打击伊朗后，特朗普称伊朗要求举行会晤。

After president Trump threatened to strike Iran over its deadly crackdown on nationwide protests, Trump says Iran asked for a meeting.

该国政权是否担心他会效仿在委内瑞拉的做法并付诸行动？

Is the country's regime worried he'll follow through after what he did in Venezuela?

我以为你提到杰罗姆·鲍威尔说司法部正利用大陪审团调查施压美联储，使其按总统意愿行事。

I thought your Jerome Powell says the justice department is using a grand jury investigation to pressure the central bank to do what the president wants.

刑事指控的威胁源于美联储根据我们对何种做法最符合公众利益的最佳判断来设定利率。

The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public.

请继续关注我们。

Stay with us.

我们为您带来开启一天所需的全部新闻。

We've got all the news you need to start your day.

国土安全部部长克里斯蒂·诺姆表示，她将向明尼苏达州增派联邦执法人员。

Secretary of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem, says she's sending additional federal law enforcement agents to Minnesota.

与此同时，上周一名移民与海关执法局（ICE）特工在明尼阿波利斯开枪打死雷妮·古德后，周日全美多地继续爆发抗议活动。

Meanwhile, protests continued on Sunday across the country after an ICE agent shot and killed Renee Good in Minneapolis last week.

我们现在连线明尼阿波利斯的NPR记者杰森·德罗斯。

Joining us from Minneapolis is NPR's Jason Derose.

杰森，好的。

Jason, so okay.

增派的部队。

Additional forces.

关于诺姆派出的这些部队，我们了解哪些情况？

What do we know about, these forces that, Noam is sending?

诺姆表示，她正在向明尼苏达州调动更多国土安全部官员。

Well, Noam says she's moving many more homeland security agents into Minnesota.

这是她在《福克斯新闻周日》上的讲话。

Here she is speaking on Fox News Sunday.

将有数百名额外人员到位，以便让在明尼阿波利斯工作的移民与海关执法局及边境巡逻人员能够安全执行任务。

There'll be hundreds more in order to allow our ICE and our border patrol individuals that are working in, Minneapolis to do so safely.

她说，一些人员已经抵达。

She says some have already arrived.

其他人将在今天抵达。

Others will arrive today.

但当地一些民选官员对国土安全部的行动表示反对，包括美国众议员伊尔汗·奥马尔。

But some elected officials here are pushing back against DHS actions, including US representative Ilhan Omar.

她要求对雷妮·古德的遇害事件进行全面调查。

She's demanding a full investigation into Renee Good's killing.

此外，美国众议员通常可以未经通知就访问移民与海关执法局的拘留中心，但奥马尔表示，上周末她被拒之门外。

Also, US representatives had normally been allowed to visit ICE detention centers unannounced, but Omar says she was turned away over the weekend.

根据NPR获得的一份备忘录，国土安全部现在表示，民选官员进入拘留中心前需提前七天通知。

Now Homeland Security, according to a memo obtained by NPR, now says it requires elected officials to give seven days notice to enter a detention center.

因此，作为一个了解该地区并已在这里待了几天的人，紧张情绪相当高。

So overall, as someone who knows the area and has been here for a few days, tensions are pretty high.

你白天和黑夜都能听到警笛声和直升机声，人们真的非常紧张。

You hear sirens and helicopters throughout the day and night, and people are really on edge.

发生枪击的那个社区，人们感觉怎么样？

That neighborhood where the shooting took place, I mean, how are people feeling there?

那里有很多恐惧，但邻里之间也充满了关怀。

Well, there is a lot of fear there, but there's also a lot of care for neighbors.

我想为你播放一段上周日午后歌唱与步行守夜活动的录音。

I wanna play this piece of tape for you from a singing and walking vigil from Sunday afternoon.

数百人聚集在离上周遇害地点不远的一座教堂，然后沿着社区步行约一英里的环线，为邻居们唱歌，带来安慰与鼓励。

Several 100 people gathered at a church not far from last week's killing and then walked about a mile loop around the neighborhood singing to their neighbors to bring some comfort and encouragement.

在行进过程中，他们不时在ICE特工最近拘捕人员的地方停下，在每一个地点默哀片刻。

And as they walked, they stopped from time to time in places where ICE agents had detained people recently, and they kept a moment of silence at each of those places.

明尼阿波利斯现在面临很多事，比如雷妮·古德的遇害，以及当地更大的移民行动。

You there is a lot coming at Minneapolis right now, the killing of Renee Goode, the larger immigration actions there.

所以告诉我们吧，杰森，你一直报道宗教话题。

So tell us, I mean, you cover religion, Jason.

宗教团体对此有何反应？

What has been the response from communities of faith?

在明尼阿波利斯，信仰人士确实走在前列，努力对抗他们认为特朗普政府在移民执法方面不公正的行动。

Well, you know, here in Minneapolis, people of faith have really taken the lead in working to counter what they believe to be unjust actions by the Trump administration around immigration enforcement.

上周末，雷妮·古德的妻子发表声明说，雷妮是一名基督徒，她的信仰驱动着她的工作。

In a statement over the weekend, Renee Goode's wife said that Renee was a Christian whose faith motivated her work.

明尼阿波利斯居民、家庭治疗师卡罗尔·霍恩贝克也是如此。

That's also true of Minneapolis resident Carol Hornbeck, a family therapist.

她说，自己最近一直在思考一首圣诗《坚固根基》中的一节经文。

She says she's been thinking a lot about a verse from the hymn, how firm a foundation.

我必与你同在，赐福你的困境，使你的苦难成圣，最艰难的时刻也将成为神圣。

I will be with thee thy troubles to bless and sanctify it to thee thy deepest distress so that the hardest thing becomes holy.

霍恩贝克表示，她认为自己的抗争工作虽然艰难却神圣，这正是她当前力量和决心的来源。

Ornbeck says the idea that her resistance work is hard but holy is what's giving her strength and resolve right now.

好的。

Alright.

接下来几天，你打算关注什么？

Now what are you gonna be looking for in the next few days?

随着更多联邦特工抵达，我将观察他们在实地的具体行动，并关注反对ICE存在的社区成员如何应对这些增加的联邦力量。

Well, as those additional federal agents arrive, I'll be looking to see what they're actually doing on the ground, and I'll be watching how community members who oppose ICE's presence respond to these increased federal forces.

他们一直在社区巡逻，并通过哨声和聊天群组提醒人们ICE特工的所在位置。

They've been patrolling neighborhoods and alerting people with whistles and chat groups about where ICE agents are.

他们会继续认为这种工作已经足够了吗？尤其是当ICE现在如此激烈地回应，使用胡椒喷雾，甚至上周已动用致命武力时？

Will they continue to think that kind of work is enough, especially since ICE is now responding so aggressively using pepper spray and, as of last week, deadly force?

这是NPR驻明尼阿波利斯的杰森·德罗斯的报道。

That's NPR's Jason Derose in Minneapolis.

杰森，谢谢。

Jason, thanks.

不客气。

You're welcome.

特朗普总统不会排除对伊朗采取军事行动的可能性，尽管伊朗方面表示德黑兰已请求谈判，但该国正经历大规模抗议。

President Trump won't rule out strikes on Iran, which is seeing significant protest despite saying Tehran asked to negotiate.

他在空军一号上对记者说，由于‘伊朗正在发生的事情’，美国可能不得不在会面之前采取行动。

He told journalists on Air Force One that The US might have to act before the meeting because of, quote, what's happening in Iran.

几周以来，抗议者持续涌上街头，这是多年来对神权政权最严峻的挑战。

Protesters have been pouring into the streets for several weeks in the biggest challenge to the theocratic regime in years.

作为回应，伊朗政府进行了严厉镇压，美国支持的人权活动家新闻机构报告称，已有近500名抗议者被杀。

In response, the Iranian government has cracked down hard with The US based human rights activist news agency reporting almost 500 protesters killed.

NPR国际事务记者杰姬·诺瑟姆一直在跟进这一切。

NPR's international affairs correspondent Jackie Northam has been following all of this.

杰姬，我的意思是，这是多年来伊朗规模最大的抗议活动，而且似乎愈演愈烈。

Jackie, I mean, these are the biggest protests in Iran in years, and they seem to be picking up steam.

是的。

Oh, yes.

我的意思是，抗议者现在几乎遍布伊朗的每一个角落。

I mean, the protesters are in virtually every corner of Iran now.

你知道，虽然他们最初在去年12月底因国家糟糕的经济状况而发起抗议，但现在已演变为对强硬政权的愤怒。

And, you know, while they started out in late December in response to the country's terrible economy, they've now spread to anger at the hardline regime.

你知道，现在有人呼吁推翻独裁者，也就是阿亚图拉·阿里·哈梅内伊。

You know, there are chance of death to the dictator, meaning Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

我们看到的视频显示了大规模的人群，一些被烧毁的建筑，包括清真寺，还有街道和停尸房里躺着的尸体。

And videos we're seeing show massive crowds and some burning buildings, including mosques, but also dead bodies on the streets and in the morgue.

现在，要核实从伊朗传出的信息真的非常困难。

Now it's really difficult to verify information coming out of Iran.

政权已经切断了互联网和手机服务好几天了。

Internet and cell phone service has been cut by the regime for several days now.

但你知道，仍然有办法将伊朗发生的事情的信息和视频传出来。

But, you know, there are still ways to get information and videos out of what's happening in Iran.

特朗普总统说，伊朗人想安排一次会面。

President Trump, says the Iranians wanna set up a meeting.

考虑到美国在委内瑞拉的行动，我的意思是，我们是否看到他的威胁似乎更有分量了？

Considering The US's operation in Venezuela, I mean, are we seeing his threats maybe take on a little bit more weight?

伊朗方面尚未就与美国的谈判公开发表任何言论，但毫无疑问，委内瑞拉的行动很可能会成为他们评估抗议局势时的考量因素之一。

Well, the Iranians have not said anything publicly about negotiations with The US, but surely the Venezuela operation will likely be part of any of their calculations regarding the protests.

伊朗曾表示，如果美国似乎准备发动袭击，伊朗将把美国的军事基地和舰船视为先发制人打击的合法目标。

Iran has said it would consider US military bases and ships legitimate targets for preemptive strikes if it looks as though The US would strike around.

但你知道，这一切都发生在政权特别脆弱的时刻。

But, you know, all of this comes at a particularly vulnerable time for the regime.

你知道，去年夏天与以色列为期十二天的战争中，伊朗政府的许多高级领导人被杀，其军事能力也遭到严重削弱。

You know, many of the government's senior leadership were killed, and its military capabilities were badly weakened during the twelve day war with Israel last summer.

不过，该政权仍保有弹道导弹库存。

The regime still has a stockpile of ballistic missiles, though.

我与纳德·哈比比进行了交谈，他专注于布兰戴斯大学的中东经济研究。

I spoke with Nader Habibi, and he focuses on Middle East economics at Brandeis University.

他于上世纪九十年代末离开伊朗，但至今仍与那里的人保持每日联系。

He left Iran in the late nineteen nineties but is in daily contact with people there.

哈比比表示，该政权知道美国可能对导弹设施造成重大破坏，也可能打击政治目标。

Habibi said the regime knows The US could do considerable damage to the missile facilities as well as hit political targets.

他就是这样说的。

Here he is.

我认为他们并没有低估风险。

I don't think they are underestimating the risk.

这就是为什么他们尽管实际上可能无法兑现这些威胁，但仍发出了一些报复性的强硬姿态。

That's why they are issuing some threatening postures in terms of retaliation even though, in reality, they might not be able to carry out those threats.

这正是伊朗可能向特朗普政府提出谈判的原因。

Which is why the Iranians may have asked the Trump administration for negotiations.

不过，那里的政权是否已经回应了抗议者的诉求，或在可能的美国打击之前缓和了局势？

Has the regime there, though, maybe addressed the grievances of the protesters or maybe maybe cool off the situation before any possible US strike?

是的。

Yes.

伊朗较为温和的总统马苏德·波扎基安从一开始就表示，政府需要坐下来倾听抗议者的意见。

Iran's more moderate president, Masoud Pozhakian, has said from the start that the government needs to sit down and listen to the protesters' concerns.

上周，政府曾试图通过向市场投放美元来支撑经济，但显然，这并未阻止人们走上街头。

And at one point last week, the regime tried to prop up the economy by throwing US dollars into the market, but, clearly, this has not stopped people from coming out.

但你知道，无论这些人群多么庞大，仍有数百万人没有参与，因为许多伊朗人见过过去多年的大规模抗议，知道安全部队能做什么。

But, you know, no matter how big these crowds are, there are still millions of people who have not joined in because many Iranians who have seen other widespread protests over the years know what the security forces can do.

而且，你知道，政权仍然有支持者。

And, you know, the regime still has support.

事实上，今天有数万名亲政府抗议者走上街头。

In fact, tens of thousands of pro government protesters took to the streets today.

这是NPR国际事务记者杰基·诺瑟姆的报道。

That's NPR's international affairs correspondent, Jackie Northam.

杰基，谢谢。

Jackie, thanks.

非常感谢。

Thanks so much.

特朗普政府正在加强对美联储的压力，敦促其降低利率。

The Trump administration is stepping up its pressure campaign against the Federal Reserve, which it has been pushing to lower interest rates.

美联储主席杰罗姆·鲍威尔表示，司法部上周晚些时候向央行发出了传票。

Pet chairman Jerome Powell says the justice department served subpoenas on the central bank late last week.

NPR的斯科特·霍斯利在这里。

NPR Scott Horsley is here.

斯科特，司法部这次的新举动是什么？

Scott, so what's this latest move, by the justice department?

美联储表示，上周五收到了大陪审团的传票，要求提供有关美联储总部大楼在华盛顿进行的数十亿美元改造项目的信息，以及鲍威尔主席今年6月向参议院银行委员会就该项目所作的证词。

Well, the Federal Reserve says it was served with grand jury subpoenas on Friday seeking information about the multibillion dollar makeover of the Fed's headquarter building here in Washington and testimony that Fed chairman Jerome Powell gave the senate banking committee about that project back in June.

当时，鲍威尔就总部翻新项目的成本超支问题受到了严厉质询。

Powell was grilled at the time about cost overruns on the headquarters renovation.

他承认，该项目的预算已从19亿美元飙升至25亿美元。

He acknowledged the price tag has ballooned from 1,900,000,000.0 to 2 and a half billion dollars.

但昨晚，鲍威尔在一段不同寻常的对抗性视频声明中表示，司法部的新调查真正关注的并非此事。

But in an unusually combative video statement last evening, Powell says that's not what this new justice department probe is really about.

这项新威胁与我去年6月的证词或美联储大楼的翻新无关。

This new threat is not about my testimony last June or about the renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings.

刑事指控的威胁源于美联储基于对公众利益的最佳判断来设定利率，而非迎合总统的偏好。

The threat of criminal charges is a consequence of the Federal Reserve setting interest rates based on our best assessment of what will serve the public rather than following the preferences of the president.

司法部尚未对此发表评论。

The justice department hasn't commented.

特朗普总统昨晚对NBC表示，他并不知晓司法部的调查，但毫无疑问，特朗普已积极采取行动，试图将自己的意志强加于央行。

President Trump told NBC last evening he was not aware of the DOJ investigation, but there's no question Trump has moved aggressively to impose his will on the central bank.

他过去曾威胁要解雇鲍威尔。

He's threatened in the past to fire Powell.

他还试图解雇美联储理事会的另一位成员丽莎·库克，但迄今为止，最高法院已将此事搁置。

He's also tried to fire another member of the Fed's governing board, Lisa Cook, although so far the Supreme Court's kept that on hold.

是的。

Yeah.

不过，杰罗姆·鲍威尔表示，这实际上关乎利率问题。

Jerome Powell, though, says this is really about interest rates.

那么，特朗普总统究竟想达成什么目的？

So what is president Trump trying to achieve?

政客们常常希望降低利率，以在短期内刺激经济。

Well, politicians often want lower interest rates in order to goose the economy in the short run.

是的。

Yeah.

但美联储的设计初衷是摆脱这种政治压力，以便政策制定者能够做出他们认为最符合经济长期利益的决策，即使这意味着采取一些不受欢迎的短期措施，比如维持高利率以抑制通胀。

But the Fed was designed to be insulated from that kind of political pressure precisely so policymakers at the Fed can do what they think is in the best long term interest of the economy even if it means making some unpopular short term decisions, like keeping interest rates high to curb inflation.

如今，特朗普无视了这些旨在保护美联储独立性的保障机制，而司法部的这次调查可能是特朗普政府为达成目的而不惜采取极端手段的最新例证。

Now Trump has ignored those guardrails designed to protect the Fed's independence, and this justice department probe could be the latest example of the Trump administration going to extraordinary lengths to get its way.

是的。

Yeah.

很明显，总统正在实施一场施压运动。

So it's clear the president is executing a a pressure campaign.

那么反应如何呢？

So what's been the reaction?

一些参议员对此感到震惊。

Well, some senators have recoiled at this.

你知道，鲍威尔的主席任期将在五月到期，特朗普将有权提名他的继任者。

You know, Powell's term as chairman expires in May, and Trump will get to nominate his successor.

但一些将投票表决这一提名的参议员已经对司法部的这一举动表达了不满。

But some of the senators who will vote on that nomination have been expressing their unhappiness with this move by the justice department.

这不仅包括像马萨诸塞州的伊丽莎白·沃伦这样的民主党人，还包括北卡罗来纳州的共和党参议员汤姆·蒂利斯。

That includes not only Democrats like Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, but also Republican senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina.

蒂利斯昨天表示，政府的这一举动不仅让美联储的独立性和信誉受到质疑，也让司法部的信誉受到质疑，蒂利斯威胁称，在这一问题解决之前，他将反对任何特朗普提名的美联储人选。

Tillis said yesterday the administration's move is putting not only the Fed's independence and credibility in question, but also the justice departments, and Tillis threatened to vote against any Trump Fed nominee until this issue is resolved.

与此同时，杰罗姆·鲍威尔表示，他不会屈服于恐吓。

In the meantime, Jerome Powell says he's not gonna bend to intimidation.

公共服务有时需要在威胁面前坚定立场。

Public service sometimes requires standing firm in the face of threats.

我将继续以正直的态度和为美国人民服务的承诺，履行参议院任命我所做的工作。

I will continue to do the job the senate confirmed me to do with integrity and a commitment to serving the American people.

鲍威尔尚未表明他在主席任期结束后是否打算继续留在美联储董事会。

Powell has not said whether he plans to stay on the Fed board after his term as chairman expires.

这会很不寻常，但鲍威尔可以再留任两年，这将限制特朗普在美联储董事会安插更多亲信的能力。

That would be unusual, but Powell could stick around for two more years, which would limit Trump's ability to put more loyalists on the central bank board.

好的。

Alright.

这是NPR的斯科特·霍斯利。

That's NPR's Scott Horsley.

斯科特，非常感谢。

Scott, thanks a lot.

不客气。

You're welcome.

以上是1月12日星期一的《Up First》节目。

And that's Up First for Monday, January 12.

我是艾米·马丁内斯。

I'm Amy Martinez.

我是莱拉·福德尔。

And I'm Leila Faudel.

《Up First》帮你快速了解要闻，而《晨间新闻》则带你深入探究。

Up First gets you caught up, and morning edition takes you deeper.

我们每天早上在您当地的NPR电台现场直播，提供报道、访谈以及新闻背后的背景信息。

We're live every morning on your local NPR station with reporting, interviews, and the context behind the headlines.

如果您想在下午收听，也可以这么做。

And if you want to listen in the afternoon, you can do that too.

下载NPR应用程序，随时收听。

Download the NPR app and listen anytime.

您可以找到NPR所有最受欢迎的节目，包括《Up First》和《晨间新闻》。

You can find all of NPR's most popular shows, including Up First and Morning Edition.

有太多选择可以帮助您获取开启一天所需的新闻资讯。

So many options to get the news you need to start

您的每一天。

your day.

今天《Up First》的节目由丹尼尔·伯克、凯特·巴特利特、帕拉维·戈戈伊、穆罕默德·埃尔巴尔迪西和梅慧娟编辑。

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Daniel Burke, Kate Bartlett, Pallavi Gogoy, Mohamed Elbardisi, and HJ Mai.

本集由齐亚·普奇、妮亚·杜马斯和克里斯托弗·托马斯制作。

It was produced by Zia Putch, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas.

我们的工程支持来自西蒙·拉斯洛·詹森。

We got engineering support from Simon Laszlo Jansen.

我们的技术总监是卡莉·斯特兰奇。

Our technical director is Carly Strange.

明天再和我们一起收听吧。

Join us again tomorrow.

想在没有广告中断的情况下收听这个播客吗？

Wanna hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

亚马逊Prime会员可以通过亚马逊音乐免费收听无广告版的《Up First》，或者您也可以支持NPR的重要新闻报道，通过plus.npr.org获取《Up First Plus》。

Amazon Prime members can listen to Up First sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's Vital Journalism and get Up First Plus at plus.npr.org.

网址是plus.npr.org。

That's plus.npr.org.