特朗普关于伊朗的演讲、对特朗普言论的反应、最高法院出生公民权案

大家好。

Hey, everyone.

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We would love to hear about what you like and don't like about Up First.

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Now you can help us out by answering a few questions online.

请访问 npr.org/springsurvey。

Go to npr.org/springsurvey.

再次提醒，网址是 npr.org/springsurvey，谢谢。

Again, that's npr.org/springsurvey, and thanks.

特朗普总统向全国发表讲话，表示最终将结束与伊朗的战争。

President Trump addressed the nation and talked of ending the war against Iran eventually.

在未来两到三周内，我们将对他们进行极其猛烈的打击。

We're going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks.

他呼吁其他国家控制霍尔木兹海峡。

He called on other countries to grab the Strait Of Hormuz.

我是史蒂夫·因斯科普，与马丁内斯一起，这里是来自NPR新闻的《早间新闻》。

I'm Steve Inskeep with a Martinez, and this is up first from NPR News.

今天，35个国家的代表齐聚一堂，讨论如何重新开放霍尔木兹海峡。

Representatives of 35 countries meet today to discuss measures to reopen the Strait.

伊朗威胁要打击美国在

Iran has threatened to strike US tech headquarters in

中东的科技总部，因为特朗普再次威胁要打击伊朗的电力网络。

The Middle East after Trump repeated his threat to strike Iran's power grid.

周三，特朗普总统旁听了最高法院大法官们就他挑战出生公民权的法律挑战而对他的律师进行的质询。

And president Trump watched as Supreme Court justices questioned his lawyers about his challenge to birthright citizenship on Wednesday.

我们现在进入了一个新时代，80亿人只需一次航班，就能让他们的孩子成为美国公民。

We're in a new world now where 8,000,000,000 people are one plane ride away from having a a child who's a US citizen.

好吧，这确实是一个新时代。

Well, it's a new world.

但宪法还是一样的。

It's the same constitution.

请继续关注我们。

Stay with us.

我们为您带来开启一天所需的全部新闻。

We've got all the news you need to start your day.

你有没有想过，你希望预测未来？

Do you ever wish you could predict the future?

一些科学家每年都在尝试预测樱花树在春天何时盛开。

Well, some scientists try to do that every year, forecasting when cherry blossom trees will bloom each spring.

这虽然是一种大胆的猜测，但其中也包含了一些科学依据。

It's a wild guess, but there is some science involved in that.

樱花盛放的预测至关重要，关系到旅游业、气候变化模型等多个方面。

And there is a lot riding on the peak bloom forecast, tourism, climate change models, and more.

请在NPR应用或您收听播客的平台收听短波节目，了解科学家如何预测未来。

Listen to shortwave on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast to hear how scientists are predicting the future.

特朗普总统于周三晚间向全国发表讲话，为对伊朗发动战争进行辩护，而这一行动距离他下令袭击伊朗已过去一个多月。

President Trump addressed the nation Wednesday night, making the case for war with Iran more than a month after he ordered attacks against Iran.

他声称这场战争是成功的，并且将在下一轮之后结束。

He contended the war is a success and that it will end after another round.

在未来两到三周内，我们将狠狠打击他们。

We're going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks.

我们要让他们回到他们本该属于的石器时代。

We're going to bring them back to the stone ages where they belong.

现在有 NPR 白宫记者迪帕·希瓦拉姆加入我们。

NPR White House correspondent, Deepa Shivram, joins us now.

总统传达了什么信息？

What was the president's message?

是的。

Yeah.

总统在讲话中并没有很具体，但他表示战争即将结束，并给出了两到三周的时间表，这与他之前的说法一致。

Well, the president wasn't very specific in his remarks, but he said the war was ending shortly and provided a two to three week timeline on that, which is something he said before.

他说伊朗在军事和经济上已被彻底摧毁。

He said Iran was completely decimated militarily and economically.

在他大部分讲话中，他解释了为什么伊朗是一个威胁。

And for most of his remarks, a, he explained why Iran was a threat.

他说，如果伊朗拥有核武器将是不可容忍的，并且他表示美国对伊朗的介入是对未来的投资。

He said it would be intolerable if Iran had a nuclear weapon, and he said US involvement in Iran was an investment in the future.

这是对你们的孩子和子孙后代真正的投资。

This is a true investment in your children and your grandchildren's future.

全世界都在关注，他们不能放弃这种力量、实力和智慧。

The whole world is watching, and they can't leave the power, strength, and brilliance.

他们简直不敢相信自己所看到的一切。

They just can't believe what they're seeing.

我认为重要的是指出，这是特朗普就这场战争首次发表的正式全国讲话。

I think it's important to point out that this was Trump's first formal address to the nation about this war.

五周以来，他在关于美国在伊朗的行动、计划以及需要多长时间的问题上，说法一直很模糊。

And five weeks in his message on what The US was doing in Iran, what the plan was, how long it would take, it's all been kind of muddled.

民调显示，这场战争在美国民众中并不受欢迎，而且战争还导致汽油价格大幅上涨，这给特朗普和共和党在六个月后的中期选举前带来了政治压力。

Polling shows that this war is unpopular with Americans, and the war has also led to a sharp increase in gas prices, which has been politically difficult for Trump and Republicans heading into the midterm elections in six months.

是的

Yeah.

当谈到

When it comes

至于他发动战争的目标，他说他希望消除伊朗的核能力。

to his goals, though, for the war, he he said he wanted to remove Iran's nuclear capabilities.

他还希望霍尔木兹海峡保持开放。

He also want the wants the Strait Of Hormuz open.

如果这场战争确实在放缓，那么政府是否认为这些目标会同时实现？

If indeed the war is winding down, does the administration see those goals, getting accomplished at the same time?

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，这一点有点模糊，这也是我们这一周一直在讨论的原因，因为特朗普说了太多不同的说法，而数千名美军仍驻扎在该地区。

I mean, this point is a little unclear, and it's part of the reason, you know, we've been talking about it all week because Trump has been saying so many different things, and thousands of US troops are still in the region.

尽管美国声称正在放缓战争，但这些部队是否会参与任何重大的地面行动，总统根本没提到，但他似乎暗示，如果伊朗试图制造核武器，美国可能会采取进一步行动。

Whether those troops will be used in any significant ground operations in the time that The US is allegedly winding down the war is not something that the president talked about at all, but he did seem to indicate that The US could take future action in Iran if the country moves to try and make a nuclear weapon.

如果我们看到他们有所行动，哪怕只是轻微的举动，我们也会再次用导弹狠狠打击他们。

If we see them make a move, even a move for it, we'll hit them with missiles very hard again.

我们掌握着所有主动权。

We have all the cards.

关于霍尔木兹海峡——这是伊朗因美国发动的袭击而封锁的关键石油通道——特朗普现在呼吁其他国家承担起重新开放海峡的责任。

And on the Strait Of Hormuz, which is a really critical route for oil that Iran clamped down on as a result of these strikes that The US started, Trump is now calling on other countries to do the work of reopening the Strait.

他没有明确点名任何国家，但他一直严厉批评北约盟国在伊朗问题上未能协助美国的行动。

He didn't name any countries specifically, but he has been really critical of NATO allies in particular for not helping with US operations in Iran.

他说，其他国家应该负责保障航道畅通并珍惜它。

He said other countries should take care of the passage and cherish it.

是的。

Yeah.

有趣的是，他说其他国家应该接手，因为此前美国曾表示要自己来完成这件事。

And it's interesting that he said, other countries should take it because for a while, The US talked about taking it.

在同一次演讲中，特朗普还说，海峡会自然开放。

And in his same speech, Trump said it would open his word naturally.

是的。

Yeah.

这只是特朗普说了许多不同说法但从未提供具体细节的又一个例子。

This is just another example of Trump saying a lot of different things, but then not providing any specifics.

特朗普昨晚在演讲中表示，美国不需要通过霍尔木兹海峡的石油，他基本上把重新开放伊朗在战争期间关闭的这条通道的任务交给了其他国家。

Trump said in his speech last night that The US didn't need the oil coming through the Strait, and he's basically tasked other countries with reopening this passage that Iran closed during the war.

但由于霍尔木兹海峡承担着全球超过20%的石油运输，这仍然影响着美国的油价。

But because the Strait is how more than 20% of the world's oil gets transported, it's still affecting oil prices here in The US.

然而，特朗普声称，一旦海峡重新开放，美国的汽油价格将再次下降。

Trump claims though that once the strait is opened, the price of gas in The US will lower again.

但与此同时，他希望其他国家来处理这个问题，这很可能包括北约盟国。

But in the meantime, he wants other countries to deal with this, and that likely includes NATO allies.

他对它们非常不满，并最近再次提及让美国退出北约，尽管这最终要由国会决定。

He's been really unhappy with them and has recently been bringing up again leaving NATO, though that's up to congress to decide.

一位不愿具名的白宫官员表示，由于他们未获授权公开表态，北约秘书长马尔克·鲁塔将于下周在白宫与特朗普会面。

A White House official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak on the record said that NATO secretary general Mark Ruta is meeting with Trump at the White House next week.

好的。

Alright.

这是NPR的迪帕·希瓦拉姆。

That's NPR's Deepa Shivram.

非常感谢。

Thanks a lot.

谢谢。

Thank you.

在他的讲话中，特朗普总统重申了这一威胁，称如果短期内达不成协议，伊朗将面临后果。

In his address, president Trump repeated this threat to Iran if a deal's not reached soon.

如果达不成协议，我们将非常猛烈且很可能同时打击他们每一个发电厂。

If there is no deal, we are going to hit each and every one of their electric generating plants very hard and probably simultaneously.

此前，总统曾威胁说，如果伊朗不开放霍尔木兹海峡，就将打击其发电厂。

Now the president had previously threatened to hit power plants if Iran failed to open the Strait Of Hormuz.

现在特朗普已经放弃了这一目标，称这是其他国家的问题，因此目前尚不清楚他究竟想要什么样的协议。

Now that Trump has abandoned that goal and said it was other countries' problem, it is unclear what deal he wants

来自伊朗。

from Iran.

我们现在连线的是NPR国际记者阿瓦·普赫·特劳伊，地点在迪拜。

We're joined now by NPR international correspondent, Ava Pukh Thraoui, in Dubai.

那么，让我们先谈谈我们刚刚听到的总统的威胁。

So let's start with, the threat that we just heard from the president.

伊朗对此有何回应？

What's, Iran's response to that?

没错。

Right.

伊朗已经明确表示，如果其核电站遭到攻击，它将针对以色列和海湾地区各国的发电厂进行反击。

So Iran has already made clear that if its power plants are hit, it will target power plants in Israel and across The Gulf.

我们本周已经看到伊朗确实有能力做到这一点。

And we already saw this week Iran can do that.

在德黑兰发生停电后，伊朗袭击了科威特的一座电力和海水淡化厂。

It hit a power and water desalination plant in Kuwait after electricity outages in Tehran.

伊朗革命卫队还列出了一系列美国科技公司，称如果再发生更多暗杀事件，他们将针对这些公司在该地区的设施。

And Iran's Revolutionary Guard Corps listed American tech companies that they would target in the region if there are any more assassinations happening.

许多公司，比如甲骨文和谷歌，其总部就正好位于我所在的迪拜。

Many like Oracle and Google actually have their headquarters right here in Dubai where I am.

但伊朗外交部发言人表示，在特朗普演讲后，伊朗并不只想达成停火，而后再一次遭受战争袭击。

But Iran's foreign ministry spokesperson did say after Trump's speech that Iran is not interested in just a ceasefire with another war being launched on them again.

针对特朗普称伊朗为恐怖主义支持国，伊朗外交部回应称，实际上是以美国支持的以色列正在国际法庭上被起诉在加沙犯下战争罪。

And in response to Trump calling Iran a state sponsor of terror, Iran's foreign ministry said it's actually Israel with the backing of The US that's being prosecuted now in international courts for war crimes in Gaza.

以色列否认种族灭绝的指控。

Israel denies charges of genocide.

但你知道，伊朗表示，他们被迫继续对抗这场战争，直到其结束，而我们也看到他们依然具备这样的能力。

But, you know, Iran says it is forced to continue confronting this war until it ends, and we've seen that they still have the capability to do that.

至于霍尔木兹海峡，伊朗基本上在决定哪些船只可以通行。

Now in the case of the, Strait Of Hormuz, Iran basically is choosing which ships can pass through.

那些无法运送石油的海湾阿拉伯国家对此有何反应？

What has the response been from Gulf Arab countries who who can't get their oil?

没错。

Right.

这场战争主要是以色列和美国发起的，两国基本没有咨询过海湾阿拉伯伙伴的意见——这些伙伴国境内驻扎着数千名美军，而这些美军已经成为被袭击的目标。

This war was launched by Israel and The US mostly without consulting with Gulf Arab partners who do host thousands of US troops that have been targeted.

从我们在该地区的消息源处了解到，部分海湾阿拉伯国家只提前很短时间接到了开战通知，仅仅来得及准备本国的防空系统，还有一些国家甚至连提前通知都没收到。

We know from our sources in the region that some Gulf Arab states had short advanced notice of the war in order to sort of just prepare their air defenses, but others did not.

而目前，海湾国家还没有对这场战争或战争的终结方式形成任何统一的立场。

And right now, there is not one defined Gulf stance on this war or how it should end.

尽管伊朗持续发动袭击，海湾国家并未进行反击。

And despite continued Iranian attacks, the Gulf countries have not hit back.

分析人士告诉我，部分原因在于这些国家不清楚特朗普接下来会采取什么行动，也不希望最终落得只能独自与伊朗作战的境地。

Analysts tell me that's in part because they don't know what Trump will do next, and they don't wanna end up having to fight Iran alone.

但阿拉伯联合酋长国的态度一直更为强硬，该国表示愿意加入一个国际联盟来开放霍尔木兹海峡。

But The United Arab Emirates has been more hawkish, and it says it's willing to join an international coalition to open the Strait.

可目前还没有任何成型的国际联盟，而且在特朗普昨日发表讲话后，油价再度攀升。

Yet no international coalition exists, and the price of oil climbed again after the Trump speech for yesterday.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

尽管受到特朗普的压力，目前仍没有任何可称为联盟的组织。

There is no coalition to speak of yet despite that pressure from Trump.

英国和法国等国家实际上已试图与特朗普决定对伊朗开战的立场保持距离。

Countries like The UK and France have actually tried to distance themselves from Trump's decision to go to war with Iran.

在他昨晚的演讲中，特朗普谈到了其他国家应该做什么。

And in his speech last night, here's what Trump said other countries should be doing.

去海峡，直接拿下它，保护它，为自己所用。

Go to the straight and just take it, protect it, use it for yourselves.

伊朗实际上已被彻底削弱。

Iran has been essentially decimated.

最难的部分已经完成，所以应该很容易。

The hard part is done, so it should be easy.

他说这应该很容易。

Should be easy, he says.

现在英国正在今天举办一场约35个国家参加的视频会议，讨论外交和政治措施，以期重新开放霍尔木兹海峡——再次强调，大量波斯湾石油必须经过这条海峡，但现在无法通行。

Now The UK is hosting a virtual meeting today of around 35 countries to discuss diplomatic and political measures to try to reopen the Strait Of Hormuz, which, again, a lot of that Gulf oil needs to go through and can't.

加拿大、欧洲国家、日本以及两个海湾阿拉伯国家——阿联酋和巴林——都参与了此次会议。

Canada and European nations, Japan, and two Gulf Arab countries, The United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, are among those taking part.

我们此前报道过，军事规划者也将举行会议，讨论海军选项。

And we've reported that military planners will also meet to discuss naval options.

但同样，他们表明任何海军护航行动都将在战争之后进行。

But, again, they're signaling any naval escort would be after the war.

重要的是要记住，a) 约3600名地面部队，包括海军陆战队步兵，刚刚被派往该地区或正在途中，但他们的具体任务仍不明确。

It's important to remember, a, that some 3,600 ground troops, among them marine infantry, were just sent to the region or on their way, but it's still unclear what their mission will be.

这是NPR驻迪拜的国际记者阿娅·普赫·特劳伊的报道。

That's NPR international correspondent, Aya Pukh Thraoui, in Dubai.

非常感谢。

Thank you very much.

谢谢，Aya。

Thanks, Aya.

最高法院就一项关于出生公民权的案件询问了律师。

The Supreme Court has questioned the lawyers in a case on birthright citizenship.

法院听取了对宪法第十四修正案长期确立含义的挑战。

The court heard a challenge to the long settled meaning of the constitution's fourteenth amendment.

是的。

Yeah.

它写道：'所有在美国出生或归化并受其管辖的人，都是美国公民。'

It says, quote, all persons born or naturalized in The US and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of The United States.

特朗普政府要求法官们为这些文字找出一个例外，而总统本人也前来旁听了辩论。

Trump administration asked the justices to discover an exception to those words, and the president himself came to watch the arguments.

NPR法律事务记者尼娜·托滕伯格也前去旁听了辩论。

NPR legal affairs correspondent, Nina Totenberg, also went to watch the arguments.

尼娜，早上好。

Nina, good morning.

早上好。

Good morning.

总统亲自到场观审有多重要？

How important was it that the president himself came to watch?

我不太确定这是否重要。

I'm not really sure that it was important.

特朗普在辩论开始前大约十分钟进入了最高法院法庭。

Trump came into the Supreme Court chamber about ten minutes before the argument began.

据我的观察员说，因为我个子太矮，他全程板着脸，从未笑过一次，在首席检察官完成主要陈述后就离开了。

As far as my spotters could see, because I'm too short, he glowered the whole time, never once smiled, and left after his solicitor general had finished the main part of his argument.

大法官们相比之下似乎比平时更有组织，决心不让辩论无休止地进行下去，甚至明确表示不想超过时间限制。

The justices for their part seemed to have organized themselves more than usual and were quite determined not to let the argument go on ad infinitum, even mentioning a desire not to exceed time limits.

我甚至觉得他们至少会面了几分钟，商量如何既尊重特朗普，又不成为他的应声虫。

I even had the impression that they must have met up for a few minutes at least and said how they wanted to treat Trump respectfully but not be his lapdogs either.

他们正在向美国总检察长约翰·索尔提问，他代表政府、为特朗普一方进行辩护。

And they're putting questions to John Sour, the solicitor general of The United States who's arguing for the government, arguing for Trump.

他试图辩护的政策是什么？

What was the policy he was trying to defend?

特朗普总统长期以来一直希望废除出生地公民权。

President Trump has long wanted to get rid of birthright citizenship.

在他第二任期的第一天，他签署了一项行政命令，禁止那些父母非法居留或合法居留但持临时签证（即使长期签证）的人在本国所生子女获得公民身份。

On day one of his second term, he signed an executive order barring citizenship for children born in this country to parents who are illegally here or who are here legally, but on temporary, even long term visas.

这是索尔试图说服首席大法官罗伯茨，但在我看来，他做得相当不成功。

And here's Sour trying rather unsuccessfully, I think, to persuade chief justice Roberts.

我们现在处在一个新世界，80亿人只需一次航班就能让他们的孩子成为美国公民。

We're in a new world now where 8,000,000,000 people are one plane ride away from having a a child who's a US citizen.

是啊，这是一个新世界。

Well, it's a new world.

但宪法是一样的。

It's the same constitution.

然而，几位保守派大法官对特朗普政府的计划在实践中如何运作表示了重大疑虑，即如果在美国出生的新生儿不再自动获得公民身份的话。

Several of the conservative justices, however, indicated major questions about how the Trump administration plan would work out in practice if there were no automatic citizenship for newborns in The United States.

如果我们这么做，戈萨奇大法官问，你们怎么确定父亲或母亲是谁？

If we were to do that, asked justice Gorsuch, how would you know who the father is or the mother?

如果他们未婚怎么办？

What if they are unmarried?

他们住在哪里？

Whose house do they live in?

巴雷特大法官也对特朗普计划的可行性提出了质疑。

Justice Barrett also questioned the practicality of the Trump plan.

对于某些人来说，你无法在孩子出生时知道他们是否有留下来的意思，包括美国公民，顺便说一句。

You're not gonna know at the time of birth for some people whether they have the intent to stay or not, including including US citizens, by the way.

好的。

Okay.

所以，对政府提出了尖锐的问题。

So sharp questions for the government.

那对方轮到发言时呢？

What about when the other side had its turn?

嗯，ACLU的塞西莉亚·王要轻松得多。

Well, the ACLU Cecilia Wong had a lot easier time.

毕竟，每一位审查特朗普政策的法官都认定其违宪。

After all, every judge to have examined the Trump policy has found it to be unconstitutional.

但昨天她在法庭上表现得非常出色。

But she was really on her game yesterday as she told the court.

我们不能以当前政府的政策考量为依据，试图重新设计并彻底重新解释第十四修正案的原始含义。

We can't take the current administration's policy considerations into account to try to reengineer and radically reinterpret the original meaning of the fourteenth amendment.

所以我们已经听到了律师们的陈述。

So we've heard the lawyers.

你觉得大法官们心里在想什么？

What do you think is on the justices' minds?

在我看来，托马斯大法官和阿利托大法官似乎倾向于特朗普政府的立场。

Well, it looked to me as though justices Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito were leaning towards the Trump administration position.

没有绝对的保证。

No guarantees.

但至于另外四位保守派和三位自由派法官，他们在我看来似乎倾向于相反的方向。

But as for the other four conservatives and three liberals, they sort of seem to me to be leaning the other way.

那么多数法官将反对政府。

A majority would be against the government then.

尼娜，非常感谢你。

Nina, thanks so much.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这是NPR的尼娜·托滕伯格，她几十年来一直报道最高法院的案件。

That's NPR's Nina Totenberg who has reported for decades on the Supreme Court.

现在，这里有一个问题，你可以当法官。

Now here's a matter where you can be the judge.

你可以做出决定。

You can decide.

你可以给出你的裁决。

You can give your ruling.

今天你可以通过告诉我们你喜欢什么以及我们如何改进这个播客来帮助我们。

You can help us out today by telling us what you like and how we could improve this podcast.

你只需要完成一个简短的调查。

All you have to do is complete a short survey.

你现在就可以前往 npr.org/springsurvey 找到它。

You can find it right now at npr.org/springsurvey.

网址是 npr.org/springsurvey。

That's npr.org/springsurvey.

谢谢。

Thanks.

以上是4月2日星期四的《Up》节目。

And that's Up for Thursday, April 2.

我是A Martinez。

I'm A Martinez.

我是Steven Skeep。

And I'm Steven Skeep.

今天的Up First由雷贝卡·梅茨勒、杰里·霍尔姆斯、多梅尼科·蒙塔纳罗、穆罕默德·埃尔巴迪西和爱丽丝·韦尔弗勒编辑。

Today's Up First was edited by Rebekah Metzler, Gerry Holmes, Domenico Montanaro, Mohamad ElBardicy, and Alice Woelfle.

本节目由齐亚德·布赫和阿瓦·普卡奇制作。

It was produced by Ziad Buchh and Ava Pukatch.

我们的导演是克里斯托弗·托马斯。

Our director is Christopher Thomas.

我们的工程支持来自尼莎·海尼斯，她总是给予支持；我们的技术总监卡莱格·斯特兰奇则总是直言不讳。

We get engineering support from Neisha Heinis, who is always supportive, and our technical director, who is always direct, is Carleigh Strange.

我们的副执行制片人是凯莉·迪肯斯。

Our deputy executive producer is Kelley Dickens.

明天请继续关注我们。

Join us tomorrow.