与希拉里·艾伦探讨伤病恢复与自我认同

所以我要告诉那些受伤的人：请诚实面对自己。

And so so that's what I would tell people is if you're injured, be honest.

如实说出你的感受，感觉不好完全没关系。

Be honest with how you're feeling, and it's totally okay to not feel okay.

我觉得，当我们允许那些真实但难看的情绪浮现时，虽然不一定变得更容易，但至少能卸下心头的负担——你不再需要强迫自己表现得跟内心感受不一样。

And I think the more that we kind of let those ugly real emotions in, I I don't necessarily think it becomes easier, but I just think it it lifts a weight off of your shoulders that, you know, you need to be something other than what you are experiencing.

是的。

Yeah.

我倒想稍微跟你探讨一下，我觉得这确实会让人轻松一些，因为你刚才其实有点自我矛盾。

I would I would actually challenge you a little bit on that that I think I I do think it becomes easier because of I mean, you you almost contradicted yours yourself.

既然负担被卸下了，那自然就轻松了。

I don't know if you because it is a weight lifted, and that means that is easier.

这个观察太有力量了。

And that that is incredibly powerful, observation.

我相信听众一定会深深记在心里。

I'm sure that, the audience will will take that to heart.

我们稍微退一步说。

Let's dial back a little bit.

你受伤的情况，还有我十一年前出事故时的伤，都是很严重的。

And, you know, your injuries and my injuries when I was, had my accident eleven years ago, were very serious, injuries.

那更常见的情况呢？比如过度使用造成的损伤、应力性骨折、严重扭伤脚踝这些？

What about those more common circumstances where it's a overuse injury, it's a stress fracture, it's a badly sprained ankle?

我的意思是，这些才是最常见的问题。

I mean, that's that's the common stuff.

当运动员，这种事几乎在所难免。

That kind of goes along with being an athlete.

这本来就是运动的一部分。

It's part of it.

我们每个人迟早都会遇到这些情况。

It's we're all going to have those things happen at some point.

我们都得想办法挺过去。

We're gonna have to work through those.

你会怎么告诉这些人呢？

What do you tell those people?

你有什么经验可以分享给他们？

What lessons do you have for them?

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，其实也没啥意外。

So, I mean, surprise.

我又受伤了，但这次不是那种特别夸张的、让人震惊的故事。

I got injured again, and I had you know, it did it wasn't this, like, crazy, you know, story.

这件事其实写在书里了。

It's actually included in the book.

我摔断了脚踝，大家都说，嘿，希拉里，你不是经历过一次了吗？

I broke my ankle, and everyone was saying, oh, Hillary, you've been here before.

这次应该轻松多了。

It's gonna be so much easier.

但事实上，这对我来说更难，因为我不再有借口说，‘我可是从悬崖上摔下来的’那种理由。

But in fact, that was even harder for me because, you know, I didn't I didn't have this excuse to kinda go back on as, like, you know, I'd fallen off a cliff.

我只是不小心在冰上滑了一跤，就把脚踝摔断了。

I'd literally just, like, slipped on the ice and broke my ankle.

所以，好吧。

So okay.

听起来好像有点评判的意思，也许确实有一点，但话又说回来。

That sounds like there's judgment there, but maybe a little bit, but, you know, still.

我想说的是，首先，我觉得所有人其实都被挣扎联系在一起，那种感受——我们可能无法真正共情，因为我不可能完全体会你正在经历的，但同情是做得到的。

But what I would what I would say is that first of all, I would say that I think humans were all connected by struggle and by this feeling, you know, like, maybe we we don't empathy, I think, is impossible by definition because I can't know exactly what you're feeling because I haven't experienced exactly what you're experiencing, but sympathy is possible.

当你讲述自己受伤的经历时，我能感同身受，心里想：天啊。

And how I can sympathize with you is if you recount an experience of when you were injured, and I relate to that and say, oh my gosh.

我那时候也是这么想的。

I felt the exact same way.

对。

Mhmm.

任何受过伤的人都会懂，你不需要从悬崖上摔下来，才能体会到那种被迫离开你热爱的事情时的失落感，那种我们用来应对情绪或身体创伤的方式。

And that's how anyone who's been injured you don't have to have fallen off, you know, a cliff to experience the loss that comes when you're separated from doing something that you love or, you know, this expression that we use to kind of work through things emotionally or physically.

我们都因这种经历而相连，每个人的痛苦虽然源于独特的经历，但这种痛苦本身是我们共同拥有的，我们都能对此产生共鸣。

We're all connected by that, and everyone's quote, unquote suffering is you know, comes from their unique experiences, but that suffering we all share, that we can all sympathize in that.

所以我当时经历的这种自我认同的丧失，和那些因过度使用受伤、或因应力性骨折无法跑步、无法参加原定重要比赛的人，其实是一样的。

And so, you know, I was dealing with the same that same loss of sense of self from someone who has an overuse injury or someone who's out, you know, with this stress fracture and can't, you know, can't run or can't do their, you know, their their race or their big goal race they had planned.

我觉得，我们在这点上是相通的，这种共鸣反而有种特别的凝聚力。

Like, we're all we're all, I think, connected in in that, and I think that that's actually uniquely unifying.

尤其是在2019年和2020年，那时候我们的很多比赛、活动和目标都被无限期推迟了。

Especially in 2019 and 2020 when so many of our events and races and goals are pushed back an indefinite amount of time

没错。

right now.

是的。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

所以对我来说，就是要找到一些方法，好吧。

And so for me, it's like finding finding ways okay.

如果我的自我价值完全建立在成为一名顶尖跑者的基础上，那会怎样呢？

Well, if, you know, my my self worth was, you know, caught up in being an elite runner.

这让我很不舒服，尤其是当我必须放下这部分自我时。

And so that was uncomfortable, especially if I had to let go of that piece of myself.

这种情况也适用于那些喜欢参赛、把比赛当作进步标志的人，或者那些通过跑步结识朋友的人——一旦这些都没了，就会感觉像失去了什么，甚至不知道自己是谁了。

And so, you know, this can be applied to someone who likes to do races and that's how they track progress or, you know, they see their friends and to have that not be there anymore, you know, can feel like this loss or they don't know who they are anymore.

他们也不清楚自己做这些事背后的动力到底是什么。

They don't know what the motivation is behind all of these things that they're doing.

所以对我而言，整个过程就是要深入探索这一点。

So, you know, for me, the whole journey, was to really dive into that.

这可能是我做过最难的工作了，而且我还在继续，因为我觉得这是一段持续的过程。

And that's some of the hardest work that I've ever had to do and, you know, in continuing to do it because I do think it's an ongoing an ongoing process.

我们来聊聊另一件我觉得和这个密切相关的事，那就是跑步。

Let's segue to something I think is, very related to this, which is related to running.

我想问问你关于耐心的事，你平时是怎么看待耐心的？尤其是在受伤的时候，还有跑超马的时候——我觉得这两者在心理上有点相似。

I I wanted to ask you about patience and how are you how you what's your relationship with patience, especially when you're injured, but also when you're running the when you're running an ultra, I think it's a little bit psychologically similar.

我从来没跑过超马，所以没法说。

I have never run an ultra, so I can't say.

但我的感觉是，这就像爬一座大山，得把目标拆成一个个特别小的步骤来完成。

But my feeling is it's similar to climbing a big mountain where you just break it down into these super small pieces.

不过我更想听听你对这两方面的看法。

But I wanna hear you talk about both of those things, actually.

我们先从跑步说起吧。

Let's start with the running.

跑步这件事，到底给了你哪些关于耐心的体会？这些体会又是怎么帮你度过受伤和康复这段经历的？

Like, what is running what did running give you around patients that you brought into this experience of being injured and recovering?

在谈这些之前，我得说，耐心根本不是我的强项。

So to preface all of this, patience is not one of my virtues.

我特别喜欢你说话的语气。

I love the tone of your voice there.

是的。

Yes.

一点都不是。

Like, at all.

我肯定不是。

I would no.

我不是个有耐心的人。

I am not a patient person.

如果非要说我有什么值得骄傲的地方，那就是我总爱想办法解决问题。

If there is one if, like, I I, like, I pride myself in, like, figuring out, like, okay.

遇到瓶颈时，我就琢磨怎么绕开它，让事情推进得更快。

If this is here's the bottleneck, like, how do I, you know, get around these things to make it go faster?

我不确定。

I don't know.

是这样吗

Is that

这也不奇怪吧？

not surprising?

所以，好吧。

So okay.

我这么说吧。

So here's what I say.

我得有点耐心才行，毕竟我是超马跑者，你知道的，这些比赛有时候要持续好几天。

It's how can I I must have some kind of patience if I'm an ultra runner because, you know, these these races sometimes are on the order of days, you know?

所以你肯定能理解，我知道高山项目和目标都需要很长的时间。

So for sure, you can relate because I know big mountain, projects and goals, like, they require an immense amount of time.

所以这就算是一种超马了。

So that is an ultra.

虽然耐心不是我的强项，但跑步让我培养了一种不同的耐心。

So even though patience is not one of my virtues, running allows me a different kind of patience.

我觉得跑步的时候，你总是在前进。

And how I view it is that, I mean, with running, you're always making progress.

所以我跑步的时候不会觉得着急，有时候我会把目标拆解到每一步来做。

So what I do is I don't feel impatient when I'm running because I break it down literally sometimes to one step at a time.

比如当情况不顺，或者遇到特别艰难的路段、陡坡时，我就只盯着自己的脚步。

Like, when things are you know, when things even aren't going very well or, you know, I'm reaching a tough part or a tough climb, I literally focus on my footsteps.

因为我觉得每走一步都是在向前推进，所以能保持耐心，毕竟我一整天都在前进。

And so because I feel like I'm making forward progress literally with every step, then I can be patient because I get to move all day.

只要还在往前走，哪怕有时候我也会想：天啊，

And as long as I'm, you know, making some sort of forward progress, sometimes, certainly, I think of, like, oh my gosh.

如果正处于低谷，看到还有这么长的路要走，

I have this much left in the race if I'm, you know, hitting a low point.

但只要把目标拆成一分钟、一小时、一段坡路这样来完成，这就是我练习耐心的方式。

But just focusing on that, literally breaking it down to, like, a minute at a time or an hour at a time or, you know, a climb at a time, that allows that's how I practice patience.

正因如此，我才通过跑步意识到，

And that's how I was able to use running and realize, like, okay.

原来我其实可以很有耐心。

I actually can be pretty patient.

尤其是我的比赛方式，我从来不会一开跑就冲出去，毕竟这是超长距离赛。

And especially how I race, I'm not someone that goes out from the gun because it's an ultra.

我会根据自己的感觉，从一个舒服的节奏开始，然后在比赛后半段慢慢超越别人，给他们个惊喜——这全靠我够耐心，了解自己，保持适合自己的速度，而且我知道自己能一整天都维持这个节奏。

Like, I I, you know, I start within, you know, what feels comfortable to me, and then I I like to, you know, move up later in the field and, like, surprise people because I've done a good job at being patient and knowing myself and, you know, moving at a pace that's that's, you know, fast for me and knowing that I can, you know, pick up like, keep this pace all day.

通过跑步，我真正意识到自己其实很有耐心。

And so that's how running, I realized I definitely had patience, through running.

事实上，这正是我在这些长距离比赛中特别擅长的地方。

And, actually, that's something I really excel at actually in in these in these long distance races.

但把这种心态用在康复上，我必须真正把它当回事。

But applying that to recovery, I literally had to I had to take it as that.

康复初期，尤其是那些特别难熬的日子，我会把目标拆成特别小的、容易完成的步骤。

Early on in the recovery, especially when the days were super tough, that I would literally break it down into super digestible chunks.

比如，早上从床上起来走到餐桌旁，或者走出公寓，慢慢挪到街角的咖啡店，这些小事都算进展。

Like, for instance, one of them would be, okay, you know, getting out of out of bed in the morning to my table or, you know, getting out of my apartment and scooting down the street to the coffee shop.

每完成一件，我都觉得挺有成就感。

Like, that felt good.

所以，只要我能把几分钟或者几小时连起来，它们最终就能拼成一天，接着是一周，然后就这样一步步往前走。

And so if I could string together minutes or hours, they would eventually lead to days and then weeks and, you know, to go from there.

因为这是一个很有意思的视角。通常，我会以训练周期为单位来规划一整年，比如先定好目标。

Because it was really interesting perspective because normally, would, you know, plan my year with in training blocks of, like, okay.

比如某场比赛，或者某个重要的目标。

Here's a race or here's a big objective.

然后再倒推回去，安排训练周期，为达成那个目标做准备。

How and then, you know, like, go back in time and build training blocks to lead up to that.

这是第一次我没法那样做，所以我得想办法解决问题，并且用一种不会让我崩溃的方式来练习耐心。

And this is the first time where I couldn't do that, so I had to kind of problem solve and practice patience in a way so that I literally wouldn't lose my mind.

非常，非常有趣。

Very, very interesting.

对。

Yeah.

耐心真是个很有意思的东西。

Pay patience is such an interesting thing.

这真是一段特别的旅程，我能理解你的感受。

It's an interesting journey, and I can I can understand that?

这一点在你的文字里也体现出来了，你一方面其实很着急，但另一方面又特别有耐心。

And I and that came across in the writing too, like, when you were, that you were both impatient in a sense and Mhmm.

极其有耐心。

Incredibly patient.

你一天天、一周周、一个个月这样熬过来的过程，对正在康复中的人特别有启发——它其实就是起床、去咖啡店、吃早餐，或者去物理治疗那样，一件一件小事堆起来的。

And that process of of getting through your days and and weeks and and months and so forth, I think, is a really important lesson for people going through injury is that it it is just like getting out of bed and getting to the coffee shop and getting breakfast or getting to the getting to the PT.

你提到过一个朋友，我一时想不起她名字了。

Like, you talk about your your friend who was a I forgot her name now.

她是玩山地车的吗？

Is it a mountain bike racer?

对。

And Yeah.

你们俩互相鼓励，互相拉着去物理治疗。

And how you would kinda be each other's support and getting each other to physical therapy.

而且你知道，这些事听起来好像挺老派的，像是个温馨的小故事。

And and, you know, that that stuff is you know, it sounds sort of quaint like, oh, it's this cute story.

我有个康复训练的伙伴。

I have this PT buddy.

但这真的特别重要。

But that is so important Mhmm.

真的很难坚持。

To do.

做起来太不容易了。

It's so hard to do.

而这一切都是通过练习耐心做到的，我觉得耐心是能练出来的，慢慢就能越来越擅长。

And, honestly, so this this is through practicing that patience, because I think it is something, you know, that you practice and eventually, you know, I can get better at it.

通过这样的练习，我对自己有了更深的了解。

But through practicing that, I learned so much about myself.

每天坚持、对自己不放弃，让我重新找回了自我。

Through practicing that patience and showing up for myself each day, I learned I kind of got my self identity back.

因为我不再只盯着自己是谁，比如——

Because instead of focusing on, okay.

我是希拉里·艾伦，一名耐力跑者。

I'm Hillary Allen, the endurance runner.

我不知道自己会不会再跑一次。

Well, I don't know if I'm gonna do that again.

我不确定还想不想再跑一次。

I don't know if I want to do that again.

我也不知道自己还能不能跑。

I don't know if I can.

但每天看着自己坚持出现，哪怕状态很差、心情低落、毫无动力，哪怕感觉不错，这些都让我意识到，我不仅仅是个跑者，也不仅仅是个运动员，我身上还有别的品质——那种不一样的力量。我几乎是在实时地认识自己，看到了真实的自己：没错，我确实会急躁，会用那样的方式看待世界；但同时我也发现，自己拥有惊人的韧性，有股不肯放弃的劲头，尤其对那些我深爱的事情。

But seeing myself showing up for myself every day, if I felt like crap, even if I felt sad or unmotivated, even if I felt good, that to me showed me that I was more than just a runner, that I was more than just an athlete, that I had I possessed these other attributes that were, you know, a different kind of strength, that were I was almost learning about myself in real time, and and I was able to see my my own true colors that, yes, okay, I could be impatient and experience the world that way, and, also, I could be I I I was recognizing myself that I had this incredible resilience or that I had this incredible tenacity to not give up on something that I that I loved so much.

另外一点是整个社群的支持，我感受到他们在陪伴我，也让我得以成长，这一点我想特别告诉那些受伤的人。

And then the other piece to this is the whole community aspect, is that I felt that I was building this community that not only would they show up for me, but they were allowing me to grow, which this is something else that I would tell people that are injured.

你不能指望自己在经历这一切之后，还是原来那个人。

It's like, you you can't expect yourself to be the same person on the other side of this.

这并不是在评判。

And that's not a judgment.

这也不是什么坏事。

That's not a negative thing.

事实上，这还挺了不起的。

In fact, I mean, that's that's kind of awesome.

你经历了一段过程，借此成长、学习，最终变成了不一样的自己。

You get to go through something, and you get to grow and learn and become something different.

你得允许自己发生这样的变化，周围的人也得允许你这样改变。

And you have to allow that in yourself, but also the community around you has to allow that as well.

允许自己经历这些转变，允许自己在受伤、康复的过程中成长，看看最终会带给你什么。

Allow this change and allow this growth as you're experiencing, you know, injuries and recovery and kind of what that will bring you in the end.

我们缺的正是这样的表达，这让我特别有感触。

We needed we're missing words for this is what strikes me.

你这么说真美，我完全懂你的意思，也特别能感同身受。

Mean, it's beautiful how you say that, and I totally hear you, and I can totally relate.

这既让人害怕，又特别美好。

And it's it's so terrifying, and it's so wonderful.

是的。

Yeah.

我们真需要找个词来形容这种感觉，太棒了。

And there's, like, we need a terra wonderful word or something here.

对。

Yeah.

这可能是我听过的对耐力运动最贴切的解释了——它讲的就是这么回事。

Because that's the best explanation I think I've heard for that where it is this is this is what endurance sport is all about.

对吧？

Right?

关键在于过程，但更重要的是，别害怕过程结束后你会变成什么样的人。

It's all about, first of all, process, but second of all, not being afraid of who you're going to become on the other side of that process.

而且，周围的人也得不怕你变了，要支持你、欢迎你成为那个全新的自己。

And and having a community that's not afraid of who you're gonna become on the other side of that process and actually supporting you through that and welcoming that new Hillary.

我觉得这正是山地运动特别酷的地方，我们个人和整个群体一次次地经历这样的过程。

And and that's I think that that's something that is so cool about mountain sports that we we go through that as individuals and as a community over and over again.

这种事对我们来说已经习以为常了，但说实话，其他运动里可没这么普遍。

And it kind of becomes second nature to us, but I honestly don't think that, that's very common in other sports.

而且比赛越激烈，这种情况就越少见。

And I think the more competitive they are, the the less common it is.

但我觉得，像这种个人耐力运动，或者小团体活动，真的让人惊叹，它们能彻底改变你。

But I think these individual endurance sports or small groups, I mean, it's it's just incredible how how it changes changes you.

是的。

Yeah.

特别有意思。

Really interesting.

我的意思是，

I mean,

我本来想早点提一件事，你也在书里很早就提到了，而且讲得特别好，不止一次提到。不过现在说到结尾了，我想讲两件相关的事。

one of the things I meant to bring up earlier and you you because because you brought it up really early in your book, and you brought it up really well, multiple times in your book, but, again, kind of at the end is, well, two things that are sort of related.

第一点，我想问问你关于写作的力量。

One, I wanted to ask you about the power of writing.

其次，我想特别问问你，写作和信念之间的关系，以及信念的力量，你是怎么 personally 利用信念的力量的，或者这两者你都是怎么用的。

And second of all, I wanted to ask you specifically about that as it relates to belief and the power of belief and how you how you personally leverage the power of belief or both those tools, actually.

是的。

Yeah.

其实我之前也想提这一点。

So I actually meant to mention this earlier too.

这正好说到点子上了。

So this is great.

不过我还是先从写作说起吧。

But I'll I'll talk I'll start with writing.

对我来说，写作真的特别有疗愈作用。

For me, writing was just so incredibly cathartic.

早在出事之前，我就已经把写作当成一种表达方式了。

I had used writing as a way even before the accident as a as a way of ex as a means of expression.

那一直都是我私下的空间，可以随便写下自己的想法，反正也没人会看，所以不用担心被评判。

It was always this, you know, private place that I could, you know, write down my thoughts, and there was no judgment because no one was gonna read what I was writing.

一方面是我字太难认，另一方面呢，那本来就是我自己的东西。

First of all, because my handwriting's horrible, and second of all, because, you know, it was just it was mine.

这其实就跟我说过的那种真诚有关——允许自己坦率、真实地面对内心。

And so this is this is kind of that honesty piece that I was talking about, is letting myself be honest and raw.

在我能向身边的人表达自己真实情绪之前，我已经能通过写作把那些感受写下来、用文字表达清楚。

And before I was even able to express myself to other people in my community of, you know, where I was at emotionally, I was able to write it down and put words to it.

有时候写出来的东西并不怎么聪明。

Sometimes they weren't very intelligent.

就是一堆混乱、模糊的情绪堆在一起。

They're just kind of a blur and mess of feelings.

但只要把它们写在纸上，我就感觉轻松了，不用再反复琢磨。

But in getting them out onto paper, there was just this freedom that I didn't have to dwell on them.

我不用像咖啡机一样，让那些念头在脑子里一直咕嘟咕嘟地翻腾。

I didn't have to, you know, like, I feel like percolate on them like a little coffee maker.

我不必再为这些事纠结了。

I didn't have to, like, you know, to deal with them anymore.

它们已经写出来了。

They were out there.

而且，

And,

对。

Yeah.

所以，这种写作方式对我来说特别有疗愈作用，它是我第一次真正表达内心真实想法的方式。

And and so, you know, that means of writing was just incredibly cathartic for me, and it was just the first way I could express my honesty and where I was at.

后来，这种方式有了新的形式。

And so then that took a different form.

在我个人康复的过程中，我开始用写作表达真实的自己，后来有人鼓励我把这些分享出去——先是对身边的人，再是整个社群，甚至通过写博客、分享经历，让更多人看到。

Then as I was expressing my own honesty through my recovery process personally, I then I was encouraged to do that outwardly, you know, to to people and then, in my community and then kind of the bigger community, you know, through writing different blogs and and sharing my experience with others.

从那以后，我感受到一个更大的社群逐渐形成，大家因为相似的伤痛和经历而产生共鸣，他们也在面对自己的困境，而我的故事或许让他们的痛苦没那么孤单，也更容易被理解。

And then from there, I felt like it bred this other this bigger community, that could relate to me in, you know, grief and through shared experiences and, you know, what they were dealing through and with and, you know, how it could make them how it could it made their experience with injury maybe easier or, you know, more relatable.

后来，这最终促成了这本书的诞生，因为我记录下了自己身体和心理康复的全过程。

Then, ultimately, that's kind of what led to the book as I kind of documented my, you know, physical but also mental, recovery process.

这至今仍然是我每天都在用的习惯，甚至今天也一样。

And it's something I still use, you know, on a daily basis and even, you know and and today.

我们具体说的，是写日记。

Specifically, we're talking about journaling.

什么？

What?

是的。

Yeah.

所以说到写日记，从我的神经科学背景来看。

So journaling, I think so from my neuroscience background.

我相信手写的文字确实有力量。

I think that there's definitely power in the handwritten word.

有研究显示，只要你把一件事写下来，哪怕之后从不回头去看，你也更有可能去付诸行动。

I mean, there's been studies that have shown that if you write something down, you're more likely to do it just by the act of writing it down even if you don't go back and read it again.

对我来说，写下来就是得亲手写，比如写在日记里，这确实是我最偏爱的方式，当然它也可以有其他各种形式。

And so for me, it's it's like physical writing of things, like, even in a in a journal, but, yeah, that's my favorite means of of writing it, then it can kinda take different different forms.

对的。

Mhmm.

没错。

Mhmm.

那信念呢？

And what about belief?

是的。

Yeah.

这其实是我在书里最喜欢的部分之一。

So this is actually one of my favorite parts of the book.

老实说，通过这个写作过程，我会写下一些积极的自我肯定语。

And, honestly so again, through this writing process, I would write down different affirmations.

我的一个日常习惯就是，逼自己出门，晒晒太阳，融入外面的世界。

So one of my routines was, like, to get me out of the door and, like, you know, into the sunlight and into the world.

我会骑着 scooter 沿着街道去我最爱的咖啡店，车上还挂着一个小篮子，就把日记本放进去。

I would scoot down my street to my favorite coffee shop, and I'd I'd have a little basket on my scooter, so I put my journal in the basket.

喝咖啡的时候，我会写写自己当时的状态，看看心情怎么样。

And as I was, you know, drinking my coffee, I would write down some, like, kind of checking in, like, I was feeling.

有时候心情很糟糕。

Some days it was dark.

但我开始养成一个习惯，写下一些给自己打气的话，这成了我康复初期几周里每天必做的事。

But I started this thing about writing down certain affirmations for myself, and this became a daily practice, like, you know, within the first weeks of my recovery.

我有个朋友叫艾伦·林，他是博尔德市 Scratch Labs 的联合创始人。

And actually, so a a friend of mine, Alan Lim, he's the cofounder of Scratch Labs here in Boulder.

他一直鼓励我。

He encouraged me.

他还时不时给我施加点压力。

He kind of challenged me.

他说：你给我看看你写的那些鼓励自己的话吧。

He's like, show me some of your, you know, affirmations.

你给我看看你写的那些东西。

Some show me some of these things that you're writing down.

这个是我当时在写的一条。

And this one was one that I was working on.

听起来有点傻。

It seemed kind of silly.

我当时甚至有点不好意思，因为那时候我都还走不了路。

I was almost a little bit embarrassed because at this point, I couldn't even walk.

人们总说，你最好的运动生涯还在后头。

And it was believed that your best athletic days are ahead of you.

这种信念，真的帮我度过了很多特别低落的时刻。

And this belief, like, this is something that got me through some incredibly low moments.

这和我前面说的耐心练习是一回事——只要每天坚持对自己负责，我就能慢慢认识真正的自己。

And it's kind of what I was describing earlier with this, you know, practice of patience and learning that if I showed up for myself every day, I was learning who I really was.

我学到的一点是，我内心一直深信，也至今深信，哪怕事情再难，哪怕看起来根本不可能，我照样能做到。

And one thing I've learned is that I had this and still have this deep seated belief in myself that I can do these things even though they're challenging, even though they might seem impossible.

我内心深处一直相信，每天都会写下这句话：你最好的运动生涯还在前方。

I have this deep seated belief, and every day, I would write down this mantra of, you know, believe your best athletic days are ahead of you.

但这并不意味着我每天真的相信它。

And that doesn't mean that I believed it every day.

确实有些日子，我虽然写下来了，心里却满是怀疑。

I, definitely, there were days when I wrote it down.

我当时就想：这靠谱吗？

I was like, what the heck?

感觉离现实太远了。

Like, this just seems so far off.

简直太荒谬了。

Like, this just seems silly.

可我还是会写，不管怎样都写。

But I would do it I would do it anyways.

我有时候会念出声，然后对自己说：好吧。

I'd kind of read it out loud, and then, you know, I was like, okay.

来，你看，就这样吧。

Here, you know, here we go.

当天能做多少就做多少。

Do what you can that day.

那种信念，我觉得就像我内心深处埋下的一颗小种子。

And that belief, it was just kind of this little seed, I feel like, that was in me somewhere.

我越写这些话，就越像在浇灌它，不知不觉间，它就发芽、长起来了。

And the more that I watered it by writing these things down, it somewhere along the way, it sprouted and it and it grew.

是的。

And yeah.

这真的太有意思了。

So this is super fascinating.

我想问一个问题，但又不太知道该怎么问，可能说得有点乱。

What I wanna ask, and I'm not quite sure how to how to ask it, so I'm just gonna scattershot this one probably.

这种信念最初是从哪儿来的？

Where does that initially come from?

这种信念，或者用词不太准确，说是信仰吧，它最初是从哪儿来的呢？

Where does the the faith, for lack of a better word, that that even could be true?

我是觉得很多人在这方面都会有困惑。

Like, I because I think a lot of people struggle with that.

他们可能会觉得，好吧。

They they they okay.

你可以让他们写下你告诉他们的这些话，但这就只是一种毫无意义的练习罢了。

You can write the words that you tell them to write these words down and write the words down, but it's just a sort of meaningless exercise.

其实不是这样的，因为他们怀疑太多了。

It doesn't actually because they kinda don't they doubt too much.

所以你得在内心保持一定的信念，相信它是真的，或者相信它是有可能实现的，相信你能把那种现实显化出来。

So you have to have internally a certain amount of faith that it's true or it can be true, that you can that you can manifest that reality.

对。

Mhmm.

这样它才能真正产生效果。

You to for that to have a real effect.

这到底是从哪儿来的？

Where does that come from?

是啊。

So yeah.

因为这确实是我曾经纠结过的问题。

Because it's something that I struggled with.

我当时就想，这怎么可能产生什么影响呢？

I was like, how could this make a difference?

我这个人特别理性。

And I'm a very logical person.

我是个很科学的人，所以总是往科学的角度想。

I'm a very scientific person, so I'd always go back to science.

所以这些说法，说实话，我根本想不通。

And so some of these things I mean and it didn't make sense to me.

到现在我还是想不通。

It still doesn't.

我会读一些论文，里面提到有研究发现，如果你用消极的语气跟老鼠或大鼠说话，它们的行为就会改变。

Like, I would read these papers where, you know, there's been studies that have shown if you talk in a negative tone to rats or mice, their behavior changes.

它们几乎会变得像抑郁一样。

Like, they become almost, like, depressed.

变得不那么爱社交了。

Like, they're they're less social.

运动量也减少了，这可不像老鼠或大鼠平时的行为。

They don't exercise as much, which is, like, not typical mouse or rat behavior.

植物也是同样的情况。

The same thing happens with plants.

如果你对它们说消极的话，它们的生长就会停滞，或者明显变慢。

If you talk negatively negatively to them, they their growth is actually halted or, you know, diminished.

我当时就在想，这些现象我确实看到有人怎么测量，但实在想不通，这怎么可能产生影响呢？

And so that is what I was and and, like, the some some of me, I'm just like, how do you I mean, I see how they quantify this, but how in the world can this make a difference?

我真的搞不懂。

Like, I don't understand.

而且

And

还有就是，在特别难熬的一天里，我内心在想些什么。

then the other thing that I would say is, like, going inside of my mind on a really hard day.

比如我会对自己说，我一无是处，永远也回不去了之类的话。

Like, the things that I would say to myself, like, saying how worthless I was and how, you know, I was never gonna get back there.

然后我就突然意识到：等等。

And then being like, woah.

停一下，希拉里。

Hold on, Hillary.

如果你面对的只是一个受伤的小女孩，你会这样对自己说吗？

Like, would you say this to yourself if you were just, like, this young little, like, injured girl?

你会当着别人的面，或者对一个受伤的小孩、一只小狗这样说吗？

Like, would you say this out loud to to someone else or, a, you know, a small, you know, child or a puppy that's, like, dealing with injury?

当然不会。

It's like, no.

你不会的。

You wouldn't.

你根本不会那样做。

Like, you would not do that.

从那时起，我才开始相信，这种积极的自我对话真的有意义。

And so that's where I started to believe that this kind of positive self talk, it has it has meaning.

它真的会产生影响。

It has it has an effect.

而且很有力量。

And Power.

然后我也会想，没错。

Then also I would yeah.

一种巨大的力量。

Like, a huge amount of power.

接着，我会想到比赛。

And then I would I would think about a race.

比如说，如果你在跑步，心里老觉得自己做不到，那还比什么呢？

Like, if I was in a race, if you tell yourself you can't do something, then, yeah, like, then what the heck?

干脆直接放弃算了。

Like, just retire right now.

你想想，这不就是最好的选择吗？

Like, you might as you know?

但如果你告诉自己，我一定能行，就算没赢，体验也会好很多，至少会拼尽全力，做到最好。

But if you tell your yourself that you can do this, like, even if you don't win the race, you'll probably have a better experience and, like, still try your, like, your hardest to, you know, do the best that you can.

于是，这些点点滴滴的证据让我觉得，行了，就这么办吧。

And so it was all these little pieces of evidence that I was like, alright.

那就试试看。

Well, then let's try it.

这其实源于一种想法——反正也没什么可失去的，而且我可以把自己当成一个单独的实验对象。

It almost came from this thing of, like, you have nothing to lose, and then also I can be my own n of one experiment.

我觉得，这真的特别值得去做。

And and I think it's just it's so worthwhile.

你想想，心里头那个小恶魔和小天使在你肩膀上吵架，今天你打算喂养哪一个呢？

And, you know, like, picturing kind of the devil and the angel on my shoulder, it's like, well, which one do you wanna feed today?

对自己刻薄很容易，但这样真能帮到你吗？

It's like, it's easy to be mean to yourself, but really how is that gonna help?

我越练习，这种信念就越强，简直像有了积极的势头一样。

And the more I practiced it, the the the kind of bigger that belief got and almost felt like, you know, positive momentum.

这并不意味着负面的想法、情绪或恐惧就消失了。

And that doesn't mean that it eliminated negative thoughts or negative feelings or fears.

那些东西确实还在，但我可以选择去关注哪一种内心的声音。

Those were definitely still there, but I had a choice about which kind of narrative I wanted to pay attention to.

对。

Mhmm.

这么说真是再贴切不过了。

That's a great way to put it.

我觉得我这辈子读过最有影响力的书，可能就是那本儿童读物了，我父母以前念给我听，现在我念给我孩子听，叫《小火车头做到了》。

I think one of the most influential books I've read in my life, and I've probably literally read it thousands of times, is a children's book that my parents used to read to me that I now read to my kids, and it's the the little engine that could.

天哪。

Oh my god.

对。

Yes.

太神奇了。

It's amazing.

对。

Yes.

我觉得我

Think I I

我觉得我能。

think I can.

我觉得我能。

I think I can.

那种节奏，就像火车一样，你根本想不到它帮我翻过了多少座山。

Like, the the power, the rhythm of a of a of a train, and you have no idea how many summits that got me to.

是的。

Yes.

你看，这正是那种节奏和韵律。

And see, that is exactly, like, the the rhythm and the cadence of that.

我觉得我能行。

Like, I think I can.

我觉得我能行。

I think I can.

这就像是你的脚步声。

It's like your footsteps.

对吧？

Right?

这也是一种你可以练习的方式。

That's also just a way you can, like you know, you can practice that.

对。

Yep.

对。

Yep.

天哪。

Oh, man.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

这是一本好书。

That's a great book.

确实是一本好书。

It is a great book.

现在有个简版，说不定比原版还棒。

There's an abridged version now that's, maybe even better than the original.

我读完了。

Did it.

我想再聊聊你的专业背景，好好利用你那些别人没有、我更没有的见解。

I wanna go back to your, professional training a little bit and and leverage some of that and leverage some insights that you may have that others others wouldn't and I certainly wouldn't.

我想聊聊疼痛的心理学。

And, I wanna talk about the psychology of pain.

疼痛到底是什么，对。

What is pain Mhmm.

还有疼痛的神经科学呢？

And the neuroscience of pain?

我觉得长期康复中最难的一点，就是你会经历大量的疼痛。

What is what is this is one of the things that I think is most difficult about these long term recoveries is the, the quantity of pain that you experience.

我的意思是，这种疼痛可能持续好几个月，根本不会放过你。

I mean, it could last for for months, and it just kinda never leaves you alone.

这对你的大脑会造成什么影响？

What does that do to your brain?

是的。

Yeah.

疼痛其实挺有意思的。

So pain is interesting.

对我来说，疼痛是在提醒我些什么。

Pain, to me, is there to tell you something.

它是一种信号，告诉你身体可能出了问题。

It's a signal that can tell you, like, if there's a problem.

对吧？

Right?

我刚康复那会儿，其实没怎么吃止痛药，就是想清楚感受身体的状态。

And so early on in my recovery, I actually didn't really take many painkillers because I wanted to kind of know how my body was feeling.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

但后来我开始走路、活动增多，尤其是给那只韧带断裂的脚施加压力时，疼痛变得特别剧烈。

But then after after I, you know, started to walk and get more active and especially put weight on that foot, the one with the ruptured ligament, I was in a great amount of pain.

那种痛是一种持续不断的钝痛，一直都在那儿。

It was kind of this dull thing that, you know, it was it was there all the time.

是的。

Yeah.

我之前稍微了解过这一点，真的很有趣，因为在神经科学里，我们甚至还没真正弄懂疼痛这个概念，以及它能带来什么影响。

And this is I I read about this a little bit, but it's it's really interesting because in neuroscience, like, we don't even really understand the concept of pain and what it what it can do.

我们几乎可以说，创伤也是这样。

We almost I mean, this is also with, like, trauma too.

它有时候会变成一种心理上的痛苦，而这种创伤也可能转化成身体上的疼痛。

It can almost become, like, a psychological pain, and that trauma can also, like, manifest into physical pain.

对我而言，这两种情况我都经历过。

And so for me, I experienced both things.

我的韧带当时还在恢复，这个你也知道。

Like, I, you know, I my ligament was, you know, still healing.

肿得很厉害，所以特别不舒服。

There was a lot of swelling, so it was uncomfortable.

肿胀会带来压力，自然就疼。

So with swelling, it kind of creates pressure and there's pain.

但就算韧带早就愈合了——大概六个月后吧——我走路和跑步还是一瘸一拐的，还没法跑，走路也一直带着跛脚。

But even after the ligament was definitely healed, you know, like six months down the line, I was still walking and running with a limp and not running yet, but I was still walking with a limp.

所以我当时就觉得，这事儿挺让我担心的。

And so I was like, this is concerning to me.

于是我开始慢慢梳理这件事，后来发现，我的大脑其实是在保护我。

And so I started to kind of work through this and kind of what what I learned had happened is that my my brain almost was, like, protecting myself.

它在不知不觉中让我更偏向用一侧身体发力。

It was, like, causing this favoring of one side.

你知道吗，疼痛有时候确实是一种保护机制。

You know, pain can be it can definitely be protective in a way.

这特别有意思，因为运动员对身体疼痛的耐受能力，是通过一些实验验证过的，比如把手放进冰水里，看能坚持多久才受不了抽出来。

It's super interesting because an athlete's ability to manage pain, like physical pain, they've done this through different studies of, like, a a test is, like, dipping your hands in ice water and seeing how long you can withhold that, like, amount of time before you, like, pull out because it's just too painful.

研究显示，随着运动员体能提升，他们对不适和疼痛的耐受力也会逐渐增强。

It's shown that over time as an athlete becomes more fit, their ability to withstand discomfort or pain, their tolerance for pain actually increases.

你可以从间歇训练的角度来想想这一点。

So think about that from an interval point of view.

比如你在进行上坡间歇训练时，刚开始可能跑不快、也坚持不了多久，但到了赛季后期，情况就完全不同了。

Like, if you're working hard in an uphill interval interval and you're kind of just starting out, maybe you can't go as fast or as long as you can later in the season.

所以实际情况是，你确实变得更健康了，但你的身体也逐渐更能承受疼痛了。

So actually what's happening is, yes, you're getting more fit, but also your body has been able to kind of withstand more pain also.

当我体能提升、更能扛住运动带来的不适后，脚上的疼痛却依然存在。

And so, you know, after I was getting into more shape and able to, like, you know, withstand more pain from a, you know, fitness point of view, I was still experiencing this pain in my in my foot.

那其实是种心理创伤——我的大脑和身体曾经经历过某些事，那种感觉还在，它一直在提醒我要保护这一侧。

And what was happening is almost like this this just this psychological trauma that my body like, my my brain and body had experienced something, and it was still there, and it was telling me that, like, I needed to favor this side.

我必须真正地让大脑明白：我的脚没问题。这就像手动调节脚部的神经末梢，同时认真纠正步态，本质上是在重塑大脑——重新训练它，让它知道，所谓的‘受伤’或‘疼痛’已经过去了。

So I literally had to learn Like, I literally had to show my brain that my foot was okay, and this was almost like manual manipulation of some, like, the nerve endings, like, at the site on my on my foot and working really on proper gait mechanics to kind of almost this is like neuroplasticity, like, kind of rework rework your brain and, like, teach it that it's actually like, that it's okay, that it's no longer, quote, unquote, injured or in pain.

我读过很多关于疼痛的有趣研究和书籍，但人类对它的了解仍然非常有限。

But I've read so many interesting studies and books on pain, and there's so much about it that we don't understand.

我亲身经历的是，生理上的疼痛和不适确实存在，运动员的耐受力也确实能提升，但心理上的疼痛同样会实实在在地反映在身体上。

But, like, what what I have experienced is, yes, like, pain physic like, pain is there and discomfort, and an athlete's ability to kind of withstand that is definitely a thing, but there is also a thing of psychological pain that can kind of manifest into, like, a physical part in your body.

很多运动员在伤后复出时，都会遇到这种情况。

And I think a lot of athletes experience this when they're coming back from injury.

比如很多越野跑者，一旦曾经严重扭伤过脚踝，再下坡时就会变得特别小心。

Like, a lot of trail runners, if they've, you know, experienced a bad ankle sprain, they're almost more timid when they're going downhill again.

并不是因为现在真的疼了。

And it's not necessarily because it hurts anymore.

只是心里还有一道坎过不去。

It's just there's this other kind of block there.

是的。

Yeah.

完全没错。

Absolutely.

这真的特别有意思。

It's it's so interesting.

你知道吗，我作为一个

You know, I as a as a

教练，对疼痛特别敏感。

person that coaches people, like, I'm terrified of pain.

只要运动员说哪里疼，我立马就给他们打电话。

Like, when my athletes report any kind of pain, like, I'm immediately, like, on the phone with them.

到底怎么回事？

Like, what's going on?

就是说

Like

对啊。

Mhmm.

但作为运动员，当我感到疼痛时，我根本不在乎。

But as an athlete, when I my experience pains, it's like, meh.

我先不管它了。

I'm gonna ignore this for a while.

其实很容易就把这种感觉抛在脑后。

Like, it's really it's it's really easy to dis disassociate from that.

我在攀岩时见过太多次了，我也见过不少这样的情况，斯科特就讲过一个他带过的运动员的故事，他们带她去实验室做测试，结果告诉她：你还是回家吧。

I think I've seen it so many times climbing, and I've seen it so and, I mean, Scott has this great story about an athlete that he coached who, you know, like, when when they when they, quote, unquote, tested her in the lab, they told her, you should just go home.

你根本不可能成为耐力型运动员。

You're never gonna be an endurance athlete.

但这个女孩——现在是个女人——特别坚韧，忍痛能力超强，能熬过别人根本扛不住的极限状态。

And but this girl was woman was and is incredibly tough and has this incredible pain tolerance, and she could just go to places that other people can't go in terms of digging deep.

她拿过世界杯的奖牌。

And she's been on World Cup podiums.

但如果你看她的数据，比如最大摄氧量之类的指标，你绝对会以为她顶多算个地区级选手。

And but she but if you look at her sort of stats, like, what are the o two maxes or whatever, those kinds of things like that, you would think that she would just be like a like a regional athlete.

你知道吧？

You know?

没什么特别的。

Nothing special.

但她一直稳居世界顶尖行列，原因就在这儿。

But, yeah, she's consistently been one of the best in the world, and it's because of that.

这种坚韧，真不是说说而已。

Like, this toughness thing is a real thing.

我就想到你说的，把手放进冰块里那种感觉。

And I I think of it like you think mention the, like, ice put your hand in ice cubes.

在我看来，这不就是普通的高山攀登吗？

I mean, that just sounds like normal alpine climbing to me.

我们白天就干这活儿。

We do daytime.

是的。

Yeah.

我春天在积雪里跑步也是这样。

For me too with, like, you know, running in spring snow.

脚都冻得没知觉了。

It's like, I can't feel my feet.

不过我们还得再坚持几个小时。

Well, we're just gonna keep going for a couple more hours.

我等会儿回来。

I'll come back

等我洗完澡再说。

when I get in the shower.

天哪。

Oh gosh.

是的。

Yeah.

这东西叫‘尖叫性冻伤’。

This thing called the screaming barfies.

没错。

Oh, for sure.

对。

Yeah.

希拉里，我这么问是有意的，就是想听听山教会了你什么。

Hillary, I mean, this this is a really open question on purpose, but I wanted to ask what the mountains have taught you.

你可以回答一下。

You could answer it.

别管了，你想到哪儿去？

Don't Where do you want?

因为这发生在会议中。

Because it's in meetings.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我认为这是我的一个核心价值观，我真心认同，也是我生活的准则。

So the the fir the first thing I think, it's a core value of mine that I just truly value, and it's a it's a it's a it's how I live my life.

那就是正直，而山教会了我这一点。

It's with integrity, and the mountains have taught me that.

对我来说，正直就是无论有没有人看着，都做真实的自己。

Because integrity to me is doing something and and being yourself no matter who's looking or who's watching.

这才是真正展现自我的方式。

So it's the best way of a true expression of who you are.

山就是这样，它们美丽、辽阔、非凡。

And the mountains are that way because, you know, they're beautiful and vast and extraordinary.

但同时也极其危险、多变、令人畏惧。

And they're extremely dangerous and fickle and scary.

它们从不为自己的这两面道歉。

And they don't apologize for, you know, those those two sides of them.

它们就是那样，不管你今天有什么计划，它们都不会改变。

They just are, and they're gonna be that way, you know, no matter what your plans are for the day.

它们就是那样，因为正是这样才让它们如此美丽。

They're just they're gonna be that way because that makes them beautiful.

没错。

And yeah.

这真是太好了。

That's what that's wonderful.

我同意这个观点。

I agree with that.

我也很喜欢山的这一点。

I love that about mountains too.

我想聊聊 resilience 这个概念，我之前在和 Sky 或 Denny 的几期播客里也提到过。

I want to use this one concept of resilience that that you've heard me talk about with with Sky or Denny a few and some other podcasts.

但对我来说，这个概念总结并串联起了我们聊过的很多内容，不管是痛苦、耐心、积极肯定的力量，还是社区支持。

But to me, this concept sums up and sort of pulls together so many of the things we've talked about, whether it's pain, patience, the power of positive affirmations, you know, community.

我们还聊了些什么来着？

I mean, what else did we talk about?

我都有点记不清了。

I'm losing track.

所有这些都可以归结到这一个概念里，而Sky教我的比喻就是山间湖泊——也就是那个小湖，简单来说，什么在填满你的湖，什么在抽干你的湖。

All of those things can be wrapped wrapped up into this one one concept, and and the analogy that that Sky taught me was the the mountain lake, the tarn, what what fills your lake and what drains your lake in in the most simple explanation.

我觉得我们一直在讨论的，是很多人、包括我自己都能用上的方法，你教会了我怎么给自己的湖补水，这其实又回到了心理健康本身，因为我觉得心理健康最好的标志就是韧性。

And what we've been talking about, I think, is so many things that people can use and that I can use that you've taught me about how to fill my leg because the and this goes back connects back to to mental health itself because I think that the sign of great mental health is actually resilience.

就是适应力。

It is adaptability.

对。

Mhmm.

而相反的就是无法做到适应。

And the opposite is the inability to Mhmm.

适应并战胜困难。

Adapt and overcome.

你知道的。

You know?

那你是怎么看待韧性的呢？

And and this is this con how do you see resilience?

你的脑海里会怎么想象它？

Like, how do you how do you imagine it?

你有没有一个具体的画面？

Do you have a do you have a visual?

是的。

Yeah.

这个理念其实就像我刚才说的，正直是我生活的准则。

So this this concept actually so like I said, integrity is kind of how I live my life.

紧随其后的，就是韧性了。

And second to that is definitely resilience.

我觉得，某种程度上，我本可以让这场事故来定义我。

And I feel like, you know, in many ways, I could let this accident define me.

很多经历过创伤的人都会这样，而对我来说，这件事也注定会伴随一生，就像其他经历过类似事情的人一样。

Many of us can who've had traumas or experienced these things, but certainly, it's gonna be a part of me for forever as well as anyone else who's experienced something like this.

但我不想就此止步，更重要的是从这些经历中学习，把它们当作一种邀请，去成为不一样的自己——比如借此发现我从未意识到的内在力量。

But instead of instead of just ending there, it's more this concept of resilience and learning from these experiences and letting them using them as an invitation to become different, whether that's using them as a means to uncover all of these strengths that I didn't know I had.

在出事之前，我会说自己是个坚强的人，但那种坚强，其实只建立在身体层面。

Like, before the accident, I would describe myself as a strong person, but that was, you know, resting on the physical only.

但在这整个过程中，我渐渐明白了脆弱中的力量——在生命最虚弱的时刻，无论是身体还是情绪上，我依然选择面对，这本身就是一种勇气。

And throughout this whole entire process, I was able to recognize the strength in vulnerability and truly, you know, showing up at my at the weakest time of my life, both physically and emotionally, and there's strength and courage in that.

我心中对韧性的理解，也正是我写这本书的原因。

And this vision I have for resilience is is is is more of why I wrote the book.

我把自己的故事看作人类韧性的见证，也希望用它去激励别人，让他们也能体会到这种力量，因为我觉得，人类是地球上最有韧性的生物。

I view my story as a testament to human resilience, and I want to use my stories as a way to encourage others to experience that as well because I think humans are the most resilient creatures on the planet.

如果我们能把挫折和挑战当作发现自我、实现转变的契机，不仅会因此变得更好，不仅会有所不同，更会因此变得更强大。

And if we are able to use setbacks and challenges as a as a means to discover and change, will not only become better for it, will be different, absolutely, but will be stronger from them.

我们会成长。

We'll be we'll experience growth.

这种成长不仅发生在个人身上，也发生在整个社群里。

And that's not only on the individual level, but on a community level.

我认为，这才是唯一的出路。

And I think that's the only way forward.

我再也回不到以前那个跑步者、那个原来的我了。

There's no way to come back to this, you know, runner or person that I was before.

我已经不一样了。

I'm different.

我经历了这些事，现在我把它们带回来，融入现在的自己，一路带着走下去。

I have I went out there and I got all these experiences, and now I'm taking them, you know, back to where I am now, and I'm taking them with me.

这种理念，其实就是韧性的真实体现。

And that concept is just resilience, you know, in action.

我只希望，无论是受伤的运动员，还是正在经历悲伤与失去的人——不管是因伤痛，还是因亲人离世——都能靠着这种韧性的力量，找到前行的路。

And I just hope that, you know, through athletes who are injured or, you know, anyone who is dealing with grief and loss, whether it's from an injury or from, you know, loss of a loved one in the in the community, that this concept of resilience is what's gonna get us there.

其实这根本不是什么禁忌。

And it's it's not taboo, in fact.

痛苦几乎是必需的，只有经历过它，你才能变得更强大、更不同，也才能重新感受到幸福。

It's the pain is almost necessary, in order to, you know, become stronger and become different and to experience happiness again.

这太棒了。

That's that's amazing.

希拉里，我首先想说，今天和你的对话让我非常受益，希望其他人也一样喜欢。

Hillary, I wanna first say that this has been I've really enjoyed our conversation today, and I hope others do too.

我相信他们会的。

I'm sure they will.

非常感谢你今天如此坦诚、充满力量、智慧与脆弱地来到这里。

But thank you so much for just showing up with all the the power and intelligence and vulnerability that that you showed.

是的。

Yeah.

你能今天和我们分享这些，我感到无比荣幸和感动。

I mean, I'm humbled and honored that you shared that with us today.

谢谢你分享这些。

So so thank you for that.

真的非常精彩。

It was really, really incredible.

大家都去读一读希拉里的书，《Out and Back》吧，无论你接下来要走哪条路，我们都会为你加油，希拉里。

And everyone should go check out Hillary's book, Hillary Allen Out and Back, and we'll be rooting for you for your next next chapters, whatever they may bring, Hillary.

非常感谢你今天抽出时间，也感谢你敞开心扉。

Thank you so much for your time today and your and your feelings.

非常感谢你鼓励这一切，我真的很高兴能来这里，和你进行这些对话。

Thank you so much for, yeah, for encouraging it, and, was so happy to to be here and to have these conversations with you.

希望以后还能有更多这样的交流。

I hope there's more.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

感谢你今天参与我们的对话。

Thanks for joining us today.

想了解更多关于我们做的事，请访问我们的网站 uphillathlete.com。

For more information about what we do, please go to our website, uphillathlete.com.