与乔·科西恩一起成长的过程

他们从来都没注意过我。

They've never noticed me.

这真是太奇怪了。

And it's crazy.

感觉特别好，因为终于，那个七岁的孩子被爱了。

It feels so good because it's like, finally, that seven year old is loved.

而这只是其中一个人的声音。

And that is just one voice.

他管这叫羊群，说有一大群羊在吃草，有时候有些羊特别吵。

My he calls it sheep, and he's like, there's there's a bunch of sheep grazing, and some of them are really freaking loud sometimes.

这只不过是羊群中的一部分，但它们代表的都是你们，不只是某一个人。

And that is just part of all of those sheep, but they are all of you, not just one.

所以那个七岁的孩子，有时候确实特别吵。

And so and that seven year old one is, like, very tends to be really loud at times.

我觉得最像那个站在门口、一有动静就想冲出去的。

I'd say probably the one standing at the gate trying to get out, as soon as something happens.

但真奇怪，当你突然说‘哦，是啊’的时候。

But it's crazy how when you're like, oh, yeah.

这其实源于我那时候对自己的看法。

That stems from how I felt about myself at that age.

加上我经历的那些病，我从觉得自己无所不能，

And with the the illnesses that I've had, I went from feeling capable.

我根本没意识到，自己本来就不该跟高中生一起跑，不该觉得什么事都能做。

I like, I didn't I didn't even know I wasn't supposed to be, like, running with high school kids, that I wasn't supposed to be just, like, able to do anything.

后来那些高中生说：‘艾莉莎不能跟我们一块儿跑，她太烦人了，还老挑战我们。’

And then there came until I had the high school kids be like, we're it's like, Alyssa can't run with us because she's annoying, and we don't like that she challenges us.

然后我的身体就垮了，从此总有一部分我，还在跟‘我不够好’这个念头搏斗。

And then my body let me down, and I and so, like, there's always part of me that's fighting that identity that's like, I'm not good enough.

我总是最后一名，我不是那个什么都能做到的人。

That I am my I come and last in races, that I am not this person who could do anything.

我被局限、被束缚、被禁锢，所以才那么害怕被限制。

I am very limited and constrained and confined, hence that fear of confinement.

所以绕了这么大弯子，其实就是想说，我很感谢你提到这一点，因为这两者之间确实有联系。

So that was a very long winded way to say, like, it's I I love that you brought that up because of that connection.

真的特别有力量。

Like, it's so powerful.

我一下子就想到了。

And I shoot.

还有那个呢？

What was the other?

哦，还有件事我想说，对。

Oh, the other thing I was going to say is that, like yeah.

我很喜欢你去年说的那句话，说要做些事是为了自己。

I love that that last year you were like, I'm gonna do this for myself.

每当我在赛车比赛中取得成绩，从来不是因为站在起跑线上告诉自己，我相信今天能发挥最佳水平，毕竟我为此付出了努力，而所谓的最佳水平可能就是指夺冠。

And whenever I have found success in racing, it is never because I stand I stand at the start line and say, I believe that I am capable of doing my best today because I have put in the work to stand there, and that could be winning.

也可能并不是夺冠。

That could also not be winning.

但我知道，今天我会尽我所能做到最好，这和‘我不想输’完全是两回事。

But I know that I am going to do the best that I am capable of doing today, and that is completely different than I don't wanna lose.

也不是为了证明给七岁的自己看，非得拿前三名才行。

Or I have to come in the top three to prove my worth to my seven year old self.

不好意思。

Sorry.

不是这样的。

That no.

刚才那根本不是个问题。

There wasn't a question there.

真是让人惊叹。

It's just like, wow.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是

That's

你把这和身份、意图联系起来，真的特别好。

Well, it's so good that you, like, tie it to, like, identity and just intention.

光是分享这两点，就已经很有价值了。

Like, those two things even just sharing that.

而且我很欣赏你这么坦诚，因为我觉得这种话题在现在听的很多播客里其实很少被提到。

And, again, I I love that you're being open about this because I think it's, like, it's not something that's talked about, I think, too much in, like, a lot of the, you know, podcasts that I hear nowadays.

我很高兴你提到这个，因为这其实是突破越野跑、训练中各种障碍的根本所在。

So I love that you bring because, like, this is, like, the root to not only, like, the roadblocks in ultra running or training or anything.

这其实就是生活本身。

It's just Life.

生活。

Life.

我们任何一次自我 sabotaging，本质上都是这么回事。

Like, anytime we self sabotage ourselves, it's like that.

我也特别欣赏你提到身份这个问题，因为就拿我平时看到的来说，哪怕在很小的层面，我经常发现这种情况，你带学员时肯定也见过，我觉得这其实是个普遍的误解。

I love that you bring up identity too because here's, like, even just, like, on a smaller scale where I see it, like, a lot of times and I'm sure you do with people you coach, and I'm sure, like, you see this as myth.

但要是有运动员来找我，说：‘我就是爬坡不行’，或者‘我下坡也跑不好’之类的。

But if an athlete comes to me, they're like, oh, like, I'm just not a good climber, or I am not a good downhill runner anything as such too.

我当时就愣住了。

And I was like, woah.

真的愣住了。

Woah.

等等，先别急。

Hold on a second.

咱们换个说法吧。

Like, let's let's change up this language a bit.

你可以说：‘我目前还不擅长爬坡’。

Like, maybe you say I'm not a good uphill runner yet.

因为我觉得，只要一开口就这么说，久而久之，这就会变成你的自我认同了。

Like, because I think if anytime, like, I even catch myself, like, giving that like, that becomes an identity.

对吧？

Right?

如果你认定自己是个不擅长爬坡的跑者，那当你真的在爬坡时，你脑子里那个小羊羔——我特别喜欢这个比喻——就会跳出来提醒你：等等。

If you identify as someone who's not going to be a good uphill runner, then when you're doing that, like, that sheep inside your head, I love that analogy, is gonna be like, hold on.

它会用那种小羊羔的声音告诉你：你本来就不擅长爬坡。

Like, you're not a good uphill runner in whatever sheep voice or language that it says.

对吧？

Right?

然后你可能会不自觉地放慢脚步，因为人最大的驱动力其实就是自我认同，认同感是最关键的因素之一。

And then, like, you're gonna actually probably slow down a little bit or because the biggest human driver is how we identify because identity is one of the biggest things.

我常举的一个例子是：当你遇到一个说自己是素食者的人，他们几乎从不破戒。

Like, an example that I always love to think about is, like, when you think about someone who goes, oh, I'm a vegetarian, they're usually never cheating.

但那些只是在节食的人，往往总会找机会吃点‘放纵餐’，因为他们觉得自己只是‘在节食’，而不是‘我是素食者’。

But someone who goes on, like, a diet, like, they're probably gonna have a cheat meal because they're like, oh, I'm on a diet versus I am a vegetarian.

这才是真正的身份认同。

And, like, that's their identity.

我们会不惜一切代价去维护这样的身份。

And it's like, we will do whatever it takes to hold on to that identity.

所以我觉得，哪怕从训练的实用角度来说，也值得想想：你是不是在心里把自己定型为‘跑不快’的人？

And so I think, like, that's always, like, a really just thing to think about even just from, you know, the tactical standpoint of, like, where are you identifying in your training saying you're not, like, a good fast runner or I'm not fast.

这种话我听得太多了。

That's one I hear all the time.

总说‘我跑不快’。

It's like, I'm not fast.

可事实上呢，你明明跑得挺快的。

And it's like, well, yeah.

要是你低头看手表，发现配速比平时快，大脑立马就会说：等等，这不对劲。

Well, if you look down in your watch and you see a faster split, your brain's gonna be like, woah.

你不是跑得快的人。

You're not fast.

还是慢点吧。

Slow down a bit.

结果你就不知不觉给自己拖了后腿。

And you're gonna, like, self sabotage yourself.

但更深层次上，就像你提到的，很多这种自我认知其实源自六七岁甚至八岁时的自己。

But then on a deeper level, like you mentioned, like, a lot of those identities come from six, seven, eight year old self.

这让你不禁反思，在生活中，我是不是在不知不觉中拖自己后腿？

And that is, like, where you can think about in your life like, oh, like, am I self sabotaging?

是不是那个七岁的声音在影响我，让我踩油门、做错决定，甚至最糟的时候，让我怀疑自己、不爱自己，从而做出不够健康的选择。

Is that seven year old voice causing me to pump the gas or make bad decisions or, heck, at the very worst, like you were mentioning, like, not believe in myself or not love myself to make these decisions that aren't as guided in in a healthy way.

每当你的决定是基于这些限制性的身份或信念时，结果往往就是彻底崩盘。

And I think anytime, like, you make the decisions, like, based on, like, those limiting identities or limiting beliefs, yeah, it just crashes and and burns.

所以，结合我自己的经历，我知道你也提到过你的领域。

And so, you know, kinda sharing from my thing, and I know you mentioned, like, your your area too.

第一步，其实只是意识到这个问题的存在。

It's I think in the first step is just being aware of it.

我觉得对我帮助最大的，就是经常静下来思考，虽然我也在做心理咨询，但更多时候是靠自己反省。

Like, I think I think the biggest thing for me that has helped me in my journey is just like and and, you know, I go to therapy and also too, but I do a lot of time thinking.

我这辈子听过最有价值的一条建议，至今都忘不了。

Like, one of the biggest piece of advice I ever got in my entire life was like, and I'll never forget this.

那时候我正在跑步，同时在一家科技初创公司上班。

I was running and at the time, I used to work at a tech startup.

那是几年前的事了。

This is a couple years ago.

我当时很好奇，一个CEO平时是怎么做事的。

And I was, like, just curious about, like, how a CEO operates.

我跑着跑着，碰上了一个从没见过的CEO。

And I was running with a CEO that I'd never met before.

我。

And I

我就问他，你觉得你成功最关键的因素是什么？

was like, what do you feel like is, like, the biggest thing for your success?

他跟我说，兄弟。

And he goes, dude.

他说，我每天花两个小时，就只是静下心来思考。

He's like, I spend, like, two hours a day just thinking.

我当时就说：什么？

I was like, what?

他说：就只是思考？

He's like, just thinking?

他说：对。

He's like, yeah.

我就是坐着发呆，把脑子里的想法写下来，就这么简单。

I literally just, like, sit and I think, and I just write my thoughts down, and that's it.

我当时问：两个小时？

I was like, so two hours?

你什么都没做啊。

Like, you're not doing anything.

你就是光在那儿想。

Like, you're literally just thinking.

他说：对。

He's like, yeah.

他说，但你听我说，正是这种思考让我在生活中做出了更有意识的行动。

He's He's like, but let me tell you, like, that thinking has allowed me to take more intentional action in my life.

我听了之后愣了一下，心想：真的吗。

And I thought about that for a second because I was like, wow.

就连我回顾自己做过的一切——跑步、工作、生活里的各种事——我都一直在拼命往前冲，特别注重行动。

Even as I analyze my own, like, everything that I did, running, work, everything in life, like, I was just so go go go and action oriented and everything as such too.

但我们有时候从没给自己留点空间，停下来好好想想：我们做的决定真的对吗？

But sometimes we never give that self to, like, pull back and just actually think and see, like, are we making the right decision?

我有没有在做和自己价值观、优先事项一致的事？

Am I being aligned with my own values and priorities and things that I wanna do too?

对我来说，我每天都会专门留出一小时，只是静静地想，把想法写下来，看看、质疑它们。

And for me, like, I always dedicate, like, one hour every day just to think and just, like, write down my thoughts and put it down and look at them and challenge them.

哪怕我做了什么事，心里也会问：我为啥要这么做？

Or even if I do something and I'm like, why did I do that?

然后我就慢慢去分析一下。

And I, like, I kinda, like, analyze that.

我觉得，你越能理解自己的思维方式，就越能朝着人生真正想要的方向前进。

And I think, like, the more that you can understand your own thinking, the more you can get, like, aligned towards where you wanna go in life.

就算应用在跑步上，你越了解自己的思维模式，就越能在比赛中抵御内心那些消极的声音。

And even if you apply it to running, the more you understand how you think, the more you can be, more just resilient to your own mind when you're in these races.

这真的太棒了。

It's great.

确实如此。

Yeah.

在一百英里赛跑的七十英里、八十英里处，你的大脑会拼命向你灌输各种负面想法，想让你停下。

Mile 70, mile 80, and a 100 mile race, that brain's gonna throw all of that negative war power at you to try and stop you.

但如果你明白这些念头背后的机制，它们对你的影响就会小得多。

But if you understand, like, what's going on behind the hood, that stuff has a lot less power over you.

我觉得，给我自己留出时间思考，这可能是我人生中最改变命运的一件事。

And I think that's been, like, one of the most transformative things in my life is just giving myself some time to think.

我鼓励每个人都这么做，不只是为了成为更好的运动员，更是为了成为更好的人。

It's something I encourage everyone to do for not just be a better athlete, but just, like, a better human being overall.

这建议太棒了。

That's fantastic advice.

我特别喜欢这一点，因为在耐力运动中，我们经常遇到一个难题——总是容易相信那个声音最大的内心想法。

I really love that because it just I think one of the the tricky pieces and something, you know, we face all the time with endurance sports is that we tend to trust the narrative that is the loudest.

我们会紧紧抓住它，觉得：这就是我。

And we we grasp onto that of, like, this is who I am.

这就是我会做的事。

This is what I'm gonna do.

这就是我的能力范围。

This is what I'm capable of.

并且我们深信不疑，觉得它完全真实。

And we believe that to be completely true.

但当你给自己留出思考的空间，就能从这种全盘接受的身份认同中抽身出来，提醒自己：这只是一种想法而已。

And when you give yourself the time to think, you can pull back on that absolute all in, just like ground you know, all in identity and be like, Well, that's one thought.

明白了。

Okay.

这儿还有另外五个想法。

Here's five other thoughts.

或者说，另一种方式是，这整个塑造了你是谁，而不是被那个最响亮的声音主导。

Or, like, here's another way that this is shaping the entirety of who I am versus this one really loud voice.

所以，我认为关键是要给自己更多空间，一是停下来好好想想，二是形成一个更全面的自我认知，明白自己真正想做什么。

And so, yeah, I think just giving yourself more space to, a, take a second to act on that, and, b, just form a well rounded opinion of yourself and what you're trying to do.

因为我感觉，我想把这一点和山地运动联系起来，这也是我特别想邀请你的原因之一，因为你经常谈到如何成为那个能完成某件事的人。

Because I feel like I mean, I wanna kinda tie this to mountain sports, and this is one of the many reasons I wanted to have you on is because you've talked a lot about becoming the person who is capable of doing x, y, and z.

比如攀登德纳里峰、珠穆朗玛峰，或者完成一条极难的路线，能成功登顶的比率其实低得惊人。

Mountain sports, climbing Denali, climbing Everest, you know, sending a really hard route, the success rate of finishing an ultra and doing that climb is drastically different.

我觉得，如果你能实现目标的百分之二十到三十，就已经是非常了不起的成就了。

I would say if you are able to summit maybe 20 to 30% of what you set out to do is an incredible success rate.

至于超马，你希望的胜率至少得超过五成。

Ultras, you're talking, like, hopefully above fifty fifty.

我知道约翰·凯利说过，只要能达成自己设定目标的百分之四十，就已经很不错了，我完全同意。

I know John Kelly has this, like, if I hit 40% of the goals that I set for myself, that's really good, which I don't disagree.

我觉得完成一场超马其实要容易得多，不管有没有完全达成目标。

I think it's much easier to finish an ultra regard like, whether or not you completely hit your goal.

你大概率是能完赛的。

You're you're probably gonna finish.

但登顶一座山，那就完全是另一回事了。

Summitting a mountain, very, very different.

对。

Mhmm.

所以我特别想再多聊聊，因为我总想鼓励我的一些客户，他们总说：我就想一直待在山顶上。

And so I'd love to dive in a bit more because I always wanna encourage my I have some clients who are like, I just wanna stay on the summit.

我一听，哇，这想法有点夸张。

I'm like, woah.

好吧。

Okay.

或者他们特别担心攀登的过程本身。

Or they're really concerned about the actual climb.

但我想到的是，你之所以能完成这样的攀登，是因为你一步步成长为今天这个有能力的人——而一年前，你根本不敢想自己能做到这一点。

And I'm like, but it's all these steps of being someone who can do that climb, who is capable when a year ago you didn't think that was even possible.

所以我特别想听听，你是怎么引导自己和运动员的，别总盯着结果，而是去感受：真棒啊，我居然有能力相信这件事可以实现，甚至能变成这样的人。

And so I I would love to hear how you frame things for both yourself and for your athletes less around the outcome and more around, it's so awesome that I am the person who's even capable of of believing this is possible, of becoming this person.

我太喜欢这个说法了。

Oh, I love that.

而且你把这和登山运动联系起来，确实，登山的结果要难得多。

And I love that you tie that to mountain sports, right, where it's like the outcome is far, far harder to achieve.

成功率很低。

Low.

本该如此，毕竟这背后有生命危险。

And it should be because of the, like, the danger factor.

就像

Like

没错。

Right.

是的

Yeah.

越野跑里可能会出问题，但容错空间还是大得多。

Bad things can happen in ultras, but there's there's a lot more wiggle room.

在山里，一点容错空间都没有。

In the mountains, there's not wiggle room.

你必须果断做决定。

Like, you have to be definitive in your decision making.

对

Mhmm.

而且那些情况下，太多事情是你控制不了的。

Also, there's just so much out of your control with those.

你往高海拔地区上去。

You go up into higher altitudes.

天哪，风暴说来就来，天气说变就变，太多不可控的因素了。

I mean, like, gosh, like, storms can roll through, conditions can change, like, so many things that are out of your control.

所以我觉得这正是你所问问题的一个更贴切的比喻，我特别喜欢这一点，因为这真的太重要了。

So I think it's an even better analogy for what you're asking for, and I love this because I think this is such a huge thing.

再回过头想想，就像我以前总说的，我的自我价值和结果绑得太紧了，这一点是我一路走来才慢慢学会的。

And even just going back to, you know, kind of where I always mentioned before, so tied up in my self worth and the outcome, like, this is something that I had to learn along the way.

我跟运动员打交道时，经常强调这一点，听起来你也深有同感——每当他们报名参加一场比赛，或者设下一个目标时，我总要提醒他们：过程的价值，必须远远超过你追求的那个目标本身。

And the thing that I always, even when I'm working with athletes and talking with them, sounds like you're very much aligned to this too as well, is any time that they, like, sign up for a race or a goal or something that they have, the thing that I always wanna stress is that the process has to be even way more worth it than the goal that you are going for.

比如说，最近有个运动员来找我，说他明年想参加椰子250。

So, like, for example, like, I recently had an athlete come to me, and they're like, oh, I wanna do Coconut two fifty next year.

我听了就说，好啊。

And I'm like, okay.

这目标真不错。

Like, that's awesome.

是个很大的挑战。

It's a big goal.

太棒了。

Like, it's amazing.

我就问了，那你为什么想参加呢？

And I was like, well, like, why do you wanna do it?

他们说，因为这场比赛看起来特别酷，我很想冲过终点，拿到那个腰扣，完成一项了不起的成就。

And they're like, well, like, the race just seems super cool, and I would just love to get the finish, and I would love to get that belt buckle and have an amazing accomplishment.

这挺好。

It's like, awesome.

很棒。

Great.

我很欣赏这种想法。

Like, I love that.

真了不起。

That's amazing.

我说，嗯，明白了。

And I was like, okay.

那你觉得，为这场比赛做训练的过程，会是什么样的？

Well, what do you think about, like, the training kind of style going into it?

他们问，那训练具体是怎么安排的？

And they're like, well, what kind of training is it going be?

我说，估计咱们得把训练量加起来。

I was like, well, like, we're probably going to have to increase volume here.

主要是徒步，而不是跑步。

It's going to be a lot of hiking versus like running.

整个方式会很不一样。

It's going to be pretty much different.

这是一位经常跑马拉松的跑者，所以完全不是一回事。

This is a runner who has been doing a lot of like running, running races, so it was very, very different.

他们说，我觉得我可能不会太喜欢这样。

And they were like, I don't think I'd enjoy that very much.

我说，我跟你实话实说吧。

And I was like, well, I'm going to be 100% honest with you.

我不确定这个目标是不是真的适合你。

I don't know if maybe this is the right goal for you.

他们就说：‘你这话是什么意思？’

And they're like, well, what do mean?

这真的是我特别想做的事。

Like, this is something that I really want to do.

我的理念是，你得比在乎结果更在乎整个过程。

And my philosophy is like you've got to love the process so much more than the goal itself.

因为，就像你刚才说的，重点根本不在那个奖牌。

Because, again, like you said it so well, is it's not about the belt buckle.

也不在冲线那一刻。

It's not about the finish.

更不在比赛当天的结果。

It's not about the outcome that you get on race day.

我想说的是，在可口可乐马拉松那天。

I guess in Coca Cola, race days.

比赛日。

Race days.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

比赛日。

Race days.

但话说回来，真正重要的是过程。

But all that being said, it's not it's about the process.

而且不仅仅是过程，更是你在途中变成了怎样的人。

But even more than just the process, it's about who you become along the way.

这才是最重要的。

Like, that is the most important thing.

只要你能在其中找到价值，那天实际发生了什么就不再重要了。

And if you can find the value in that, it doesn't matter what happens on the day that you go out and do it.

我一直以来的想法是，比如你去训练一场山地赛跑，或者像你提到的那样训练一次大爬升，那可是几个月、几百天、几千小时的坚持、投入、逼自己突破、学习、跌倒、失败、爬起来、进步、经历高峰和低谷，所有这些都算在内。

And the way that I always think about it is, like, if you look at a whole process, like, call it, like, training for a mountain race or anything or training for that big climb like you were mentioning, like, that is months and months and months and days and days and days and hours and hours and hours of hard work and dedication and pushing yourself and learning and falling on your face and failing and getting back up and getting better and having the wins and having the lows and doing all those things.

但当你真正去尝试的时候，那只是整个过程中微不足道的一小部分。

But when you do your attempt, that is a small, small percentage of the overall entire process that you put into it.

所以我一直这么想：如果你把所有希望都押在那短短一两天、甚至三四天的目标日上，而不是放眼整个漫长的历程，很容易让自己陷入巨大的失望。

So the way that I always think about it is like if you put all your weight onto those like one to two to three days, however many days your goal is going to take versus the grand scheme of the whole things, you can set yourself up for some real big disappointment.

因为第一，那几天里什么事都可能发生，而且完全不在你的掌控之中，尤其是在山地运动里。

Because number one, anything can happen on those three days and completely out of your control, especially with mountain sports.

对吧？

Right?

但如果你把时间拉得足够长，确实还是会遇到一些意外情况。

Whereas, like, over the course of a long enough time frame, yes, there can be unexpected stuff along the way.

不过在足够长的时间跨度里，你对自己如何应对这些状况，还是有更多主动权的。

But on a long enough timeline, you have a little bit more agency over how you handle that process.

我觉得这正是关键所在，从实际应用的角度来说，我一直强调过程，因为整个旅程的99%里，你都得真正享受它，也得为自己在这过程中的付出喝彩。

And I think that's the big thing even just from an application perspective where I always say it's like the process because 99% of the journey, you've got to love it a lot more and celebrate yourself on that too.

我也会跟运动员们这么说。

But I also tell athletes this.

只要你认真完成了整个训练过程，我说的认真完成，不是说非得把每一堂课都做到完美无缺。

If you go through the process and you, like, nail the training and when I say nail the training, it's not making up every single workout or anything such to do.

你只要把该做的都做到了。

You you do all

八成就够了。

80%.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

八成已经很好了。

80% is great.

顺便说一句，我相信你也是这么看的。

And and by the way, I I see I'm sure you do too.

我经常看到运动员这样，只要漏掉一两次训练，就觉得整个计划都泡汤了。

I see that a lot of times with athletes, like, if they miss, like, one or two work, it's like, oh, the training's ruined.

就像是——

It's like,

天哪。

oh my gosh.

对啊。

Like Yeah.

没错。

Yes.

他们会说：‘我实在没法继续了。’

Well, they'll be like, I'm I can't I can't sum it up.

我会说：‘你不过就是没练一天而已。',

I'm like, you missed one day.

没关系的。

You're good.

是的。

Like Yes.

羊。

Sheep.

你其实没问题的。

Like, you're you're okay.

没错。

Exactly.

有些人每周缺五天训练，却还觉得明天跑个50公里完全没问题。

You have ones that miss five days a week, and you're like and they're like, so I'm fine to do the 50 k tomorrow.

对吧？

Right?

但你心里清楚，不行。

And you're like, no.

你都成年了。

I mean, you're an adult.

你去试试吧，不过我不建议这么做。

Go for it, but I would not recommend this.

对。

Right.

我知道。

I know.

总得在两者之间找平衡。

It's like always like that balance.

明白吗？

Know?

不想缺太多。

Like, don't wanna miss too much.

但要是偶尔漏掉一两次，完全没问题。

But if you miss one or two here along the way, that's totally okay.

生活嘛，总会有点意外。

Life happens.

但我认为，只要你把训练做好了，更重要的是，如果你在训练结束后比开始时成了一个更好的人，那么比赛当天发生什么根本无所谓。

But I think if you nail the training but most importantly, like, if you become a better person than you were in the beginning of the training block, it doesn't matter what happens to you on race day.

我最近就有一个很贴切的例子可以分享给你。

And I'll give you an example about this really recently for me.

我那时候拼命训练，为了参加亚利桑那怪物300公里赛。

So I was training my butt off of the Arizona monster three hundred.

之前参加科科诺拉赛时，是我人生第一次跑200英里，一路上学到了很多，特别兴奋。

When I did Coconona, it was my first 200 mile race, and I learned so much along the way, and I was so excited about that.

所以这次备战亚利桑那怪物赛，我满心期待能把之前的经验用上，让自己变得更强。

So going into Arizona Monster, was excited to learn all those lessons and be better based on what I learned before.

我可能比以往任何一次比赛、任何一段训练都更加拼命。

And I probably trained the hardest that I did out of any race, any training block ever.

我不只是成了一个更出色的运动员，更成了一个更成熟的人，因为我的生活重心更清晰了。

And I was just not even just like a way better athlete, but just a way better person because I had more priorities.

我的生意也在稳步发展。

My business was growing.

我和我妻子正一起努力规划未来，方方面面都在一起经营。

Like, you know, I was you know, me and my wife, like, we're trying to, like, build a future together and everything too.

虽然要处理很多事情，但我还是完成了训练中的所有目标，也成了一个更强大的人。

And so there was a lot of stuff I had to navigate, but I still, like, hit all the goals in training that I wanted to, and I became this stronger person.

这真的太棒了。

And that was awesome.

赛前我对自己说，我当然希望赢下这场比赛，但其实赢不赢根本没那么重要。

And I told myself right before the race, I was like, yeah, I would love to win this race, but also at the same time, it doesn't matter at all.

我说这话的时候，大家都特别惊讶。

And people were, like, so shocked when I said that.

他们问：‘你说不重要是什么意思？’

They're like, what do you mean it doesn't matter at all?

我说，赢当然好，但那只是我这一路成长的自然结果，真正的胜利是我变成的这个人。

I was like, yeah, the win would be nice, but that's just a consequence to, like, the build of the process of, like, the person that I became along the way, and that's the big win.

有趣的是，比赛时我几乎完美地跑完了200英里，按我在科科诺拉的表现来看，简直无可挑剔。

And then funny enough in the race, like, what happened was, like, I ended up running 200 miles, like, nearly flawlessly in my opinion, like, based on what I did at Coca Dona.

后来我的膝盖就开始肿了。

And then my knee ended up swelling up.

根本没法承重。

I couldn't bear any weight on it.

那感觉太糟糕了。

It was horrible.

简直糟透了。

It was awful.

最后我决定退出比赛，不想让伤势留下长期隐患。

And I ended making the decision to pull out of the race because I didn't wanna risk long term injury.

这真是个很大的考验。

And that was a big challenge.

我记得当时脑子里各种念头在打转。

I remember, like, my own thoughts playing in my head.

心里头在说，是啊。

It was saying, like, yeah.

你之前说这根本不算什么。

You said this didn't matter.

当然，没能完赛还是挺难受的。

And, of course, like, the DNF hurt.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

对。

Yeah.

但这真的不重要，因为从那场比赛之后，我变成了一个更好的人。

It didn't matter because I came out of that race like just a way better person.

不只是比赛本身，整个过程都让我成了一个更好的人。

Not even just the race itself, but the whole process a way better person.

对我来说，这才是最大的胜利。

And to me, that was the biggest win of all.

就连我自己，也突然有了这样的领悟。

And I think that was such a realization even for me.

就算跑了个DNF，我依然为自己感到骄傲。

Like, even after going a DNF, I was still so proud of myself.

这可不是简单地说我是个乐观或者积极的人就能解释的。

And I think that's not something to say, like, oh, I'm a very optimistic person or positive person.

关键是，哪怕你没达成目标，但如果你能因为一路上成为的那个人而感到自豪，那真的特别了不起。

It's like, if you can come out of, like, even a goal that you didn't hit, but you're proud of who you became along the way, like, that's huge.

因为在这场200英里的比赛中，我始终相信自己能赢。

Because even during the race for this 200 miles that I ran, I believed that I could win.

我宁愿全程都坚信自己能赢，最后退赛，也不愿跑完全程拿到第二，却从没真正相信过自己能赢。

And that belief, I would have rather gone 200 miles, believe that I can win the entire time and drop out than actually go through and come in second place not thinking that I had the belief to win.

我觉得，这种信念比我在人生中任何一次胜利都更有价值。

And I think that, like, that belief is greater than any win that I could have ever had in my entire life.

这正是让我最激动、最热血的事情。

And I think that's, like, that's the true thing that I get super stoked about.

如果你喜欢这个节目，想进一步提升训练水平，欢迎订阅我们的通讯，免费领取四周的训练计划样本。

If you're enjoying the show and wanna take the next step in your training, join our newsletter and receive a free four week sample training plan.

去 uphillathlete.com/let'sgo 注册一下，注册后你会立即收到链接，可以试用我们最受欢迎的一些训练计划。

Head on over to uphillathlete.com/let'sgo, and once you sign up, you'll instantly get a link to try out some of our most popular training plans.

这是了解我们如何为运动员实现高山目标做训练的好方法。

It's a great way to get a feel for how we train our athletes for big mountain goals.

详情请访问 uphillathlete.com/let'sgo。

Check it out at uphillathlete.com/let'sgo.

就是 uphillathlete.com/lepsgo。

That's uphillathlete.com/lepsgo.

我很喜欢你这么说，因为确实，说‘我根本不在乎能不能登顶’是一回事。

I love that, like, you can still sit there and say that because it is one thing to say, like, I don't care if I summit.

我真的不在乎。

I don't care.

我只是觉得，自己成长了。

Like, I just you know, I grew.

但真正能做到的是，我依然相信这一点。

But to actually be like, yeah, I still believe that.

这意味着雪特别硬，我能感觉到你对此特别兴奋。

Like, that means it was really firm, and I can tell you're like like, you get psyched about it.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得这特别有意思，也很想知道你是怎么在训练运动员时处理这种情况的。

What you know, I I find it really interesting, and I'm curious how you manage this with your athletes as well.

我们经常遇到一些人，他们一直梦想着登顶德纳里峰。

But when I we get a lot of people who they've always dreamed of climbing They've always dreamed of climbing Denali.

所以很多时候，这都是一次性的目标，他们会说：我们得拼命练上四个月。

And so it's very often this kind of one off thing where they're like, we're gonna train super hard for four months.

先去爬雷尼尔山，然后就回归普通生活了，这当然很棒。

We're gonna go climb Rainier, then I'm gonna go back to normal life, which is amazing.

但每当我看到这样的情形，总会有点遗憾，因为我总希望人们能把这看作是塑造自我的过程。

But I always am a little bit sad when that happens because to me, I always hope that someone sees this as building who you are.

还有，我的心理训练教练也跟我提到过，就是关于留下你的遗产。

And, also, like, my mental training coach brought this up to me, but, like, building your legacy.

你希望后人记得你什么？

Like, what do you want to leave behind?

你希望对什么产生影响？

What do you wanna impact?

你希望影响哪些人？

Who do you wanna impact?

那场赛事、那次攀登，真的能定义你整个人生的遗产吗？还是说，真正重要的是你一路上成为怎样的人，你影响了谁，你真正改变了哪些生命，包括你自己？

And does that race does that singular race, that climb, etcetera, define the the overall picture of the legacy, or is it who you're becoming along the way, the people you're impacting, the the lives you're chain the life you are actually changing, within yourself?

所以我觉得，首先我很高兴你没有硬撑，因为很多人总觉得，这都不重要。

And so I think, first off, I'm so glad that you did not push because so often, people are like, it doesn't matter.

我就是咬牙挺过去，但我完全不认同这种想法，也许我有点儿太较真了。

I'm just gonna gut it out, and, I'm very much not in that camp, maybe a little bit to a fault.

有时候我也会想，确实如此。

And sometimes where I'm like, yeah.

你知道，我真的不值得为了这一场冒险，把自己逼到可能伤及未来的地步，因为我始终想着更长远的目标。

You know, like, this just it isn't worth putting myself in this massive hole of risking future injury because I try to really have that bigger picture in mind.

当我们太执着于这场比赛的结果、这座山峰的登顶，觉得它能决定一切，甚至认为这唯一值得训练的理由时，

And I think that when we get so focused that this race result, this summit is going to make or break my entire legacy or it's the only reason standing out at summit is the only reason why I wanna train.

我只是想一直提醒大家，人生的意义远不止这些。

It's I just I wanna keep encouraging people that it's so much more than that.

它要宏大得多。

It's so much bigger.

从整个人生的尺度来看，真正值得投入的，是这个过程本身，而不是那种极其狭隘的成败得失。

It's so much longer in the scheme of our life to invest in that process than that very singular, honestly, incredibly narrow, like, success or failure.

对。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

完全同意。

100%.

这让我想到很多，就连你刚才说的这些，也让我有同感。

And it's it reminds me a lot, like, even just you, like, mentioning this too.

有一句话彻底改变了我的人生，我也常常用它来开导运动员，尤其是他们比赛失利的时候。

One quote that totally changed my life and something that I think and this is how I even explain it to athletes too, when they're very upset about a race too.

每当我看到一个动人的故事，被其中的角色深深打动，真正激励我的从来不是他们的结果，而是他们为追求目标所付出的艰辛努力。

Always this quote always comes back to me, and that is when people have a really good story or they see a really good story and they get very inspired by the character, they're not inspired by the outcome that they get, but they're inspired about how hard they worked to go for the thing.

我总想起《洛奇》里的洛奇，那部电影是我最爱的之一。

And and I always think about Rocky from Rocky like, from movie Rocky.

这真的是我最喜欢的情节之一。

That's, like, one of my favorite things ever.

如果还没看过这部电影，抱歉剧透了——但最后他并没有赢。

And sorry to spoil the movie if you haven't seen it yet, but he doesn't win at the end.

他根本没赢。

Like, he doesn't win.

他输了。

He loses.

但他原本是个街头混日子的落魄之人。

But he's a guy who went from someone who was like a deadbeat on the street.

没人看好他，可当他获得千载难逢的机会，能与冠军对决时，他拼尽了全力。

No one believed in him, and he worked his butt off when he got the opportunity of a lifetime to fight the champ.

他坚持打满了十二个回合，这在以前根本没人做到过。

And he went the distance for him for 12 rounds, which I don't think had ever been done before.

虽然最后他没赢，但这场失利却成了史上最鼓舞人心的电影之一。

And he ended up not winning, but he lost the and that's known as, like, one of the most inspirational movies of all time.

他没赢，却成了另一个自己，正因如此，这部电影才被奉为经典。

And, again, like, he didn't win, but he became this person, and that's why it's known as one of the greatest things of all time.

每次遇到这种情况，我都会想到这一点。

And so I think about that every single time.

有人会说，我想证明自己能做到这件事。

Someone's like, I want to show myself that I can do this thing.

我心里就想，哪怕比赛当天出了状况，你没达成目标，至少你站在起跑线上时，心里清楚自己有这个能力。

And in my head, I'm like, well, if something happens on race day or whatever, and you don't do this thing, at least if you can be the person on the start line and you believe in yourself that you can do it.

当然，作为运动员，你还可以用一些客观指标来衡量训练表现，比如是否达到了预期的配速之类的。

And of course, there's objective measures like as an athlete, like you're hitting the right paces and things like that too that you can measure in training.

但更重要的是，只要你真心相信自己能做到，这才是最终最关键的东西。

But even just beyond that, like, if you just believe that you can do it, like, that's the most important thing in the end of the day.

因为一旦你建立起这种自信，无论人生中设定什么长远目标，你都能坚持去实现它。

Because if you build yourself to believe that you can do it, anytime you have a goal in your life, like, for the long term that you wanna do, like, you can still go ahead and do those things.

对我自己来说，从长期发展的角度看，我觉得这种信念也同样适用于我带的运动员。

And even for me, like, from a longevity perspective, I think I think that even comes when I'm working with athletes.

运动员特别需要有一个清晰的未来方向。

Like, I think it's so important for athletes to have a vision of where they want to go.

不光是为了某一场赛事，而是如果你打算长期坚持这项运动的话。

And not necessarily just for the race, but like if they're like, oh, I want to do this for a while.

那你就得想清楚，未来几年你到底想达成什么？

It's like, okay, well, then what do you want to do for that long term?

所以我都会让他们把眼光放远，好好规划接下来几年的目标。

So I have them really zoom out and go over what they want to do for the next years.

不用把一切都规划死，毕竟情况会变，但至少得有个方向，对吧？

Not map it out because things change, but at least have a direction, right?

比如说，哪天我想去跑一次UTMB。

It's like, Oh, I want to do UTMB one day.

我想挑战一下这个FKT，或者哪天去跑一次Kokodona。

Oh, I would love to go for this FKT, or I would love to run Kokodona one day.

这很好。

And it's like, great.

现在你有了一个目标。

Like, now you have this vision.

这样一来，你就不会被局限在某一场特定的比赛里，因为你清楚自己真正追求的是更长远的东西。

And then that way too, like, you're not so pigeonholed until, like, one specific race or event because you know that there's a greater thing that you are reaching for.

就拿亚利桑那怪物来说吧，我确实想赢下它。

So, like, for me with Arizona Monster, it's like, yeah, I wanted to win that.

但从长远来看，我更希望能在Coconut和200英里赛事里保持顶尖竞争力。

But, like, long term, like, I'd love to go out and be very competitive at Coconut and 200 mile races.

如果我当时硬撑着冲到终点，膝盖很可能就废了，短期内估计都跑不了，我心里清楚，这跟我的长期目标完全不符。

And if I had just gutted it out for the finish there, like, I could have blown out my knee and then probably not be running for, like, a while, and I knew that just didn't hit the long term vision.

所以，这样想就不会让你只盯着某一场特定的比赛，因为你真正追求的，是那个长远的方向。

And so, like, that way it doesn't get you so, like, myopic on, like, the one specific race because what you're really out there for is that long term vision of what you're going towards.

我觉得这也能解释很多运动员赛后出现的低落情绪，我自己也偶尔会有这种感觉。

And I think that can make a lot of things like, even when I think about, like, athletes who deal with, like, post race depression or anything and, like, I get it from time to time.

这背后其实有很明显的神经和生化机制，比如多巴胺水平的波动之类的。

There's a very neurological and biochemical thing that happens in your brain that goes on that with dopamine levels and everything.

但更常见的情况是，那些赛后情绪低落的运动员，往往没有在下一个目标之后再设定新的方向。

But beyond that point, I I see that more commonly in athletes who don't have, like, a goal after the goal.

我不是说你得在跑完一场之前就马上报名下一场。

And I'm not saying you have to have a race signed up before you finish the next one.

但至少，如果你心里有个长远的目标，哪怕跑完这场、登顶那座山，或者完成任何一件事，你都知道自己还在朝着某个方向前进。

But at least, like, if you know that there's a long term direction and you finish that one race or maybe whatever happens on that summit or anything that you do, like, you know you're still working towards something.

人一旦觉得人生迷茫，通常都是因为缺少一个真正想追求的目标。

And anytime, like, people feel lost in life, it's because they usually don't have an aim for what they're shooting for.

所以我觉得，这真的是个很好的方式，不仅能帮你做出比赛中的正确决定，还能让你不把成败看得太重，同时也能让这种持久的节奏保持得更久。

And so, like, I think that's, like, a really good way to not only, like, you know, make the right decisions in the race, but also not to put so much stock into it if things go right or wrong, but also to, like, keep that longevity going for a long enough timeline.

我觉得，为自己设定一个清晰的愿景——无论是作为运动员、作为一个人，还是作为伴侣，或者其他任何生活领域——都特别重要，这也是我一直鼓励我的运动员去做的。

So I think having a great vision for who you want to be as an athlete, as a person, as a partner, as whatever area of your life is, I think that's incredibly important, something I always encourage my athletes to do.

我特别喜欢这一点。

Oh, I love that.

我觉得确实如此。

I think yeah.

至于长期规划，我总是会规划五到十年的路线。

And it that long term plan I mean, I always have five to like, I I have five to ten years always planned out.

比如说，

Like, okay.

接下来我们要往哪个方向走，心里都有数。

This is gonna be this is where we're gonna go.

我相信你也是这么做的。

I'm sure you do as well.

这也能减轻那种压力——觉得这次必须完美，否则就再也没有机会了。

It also releases that pressure of the I have to get it right this one time or it's never going to happen again.

对。

Mhmm.

如果我们真的在乎某件事，而身边的人也关心我们成为最好的自己，那我们总会再有机会的。

It's like if we truly care about something and the people around us care about us being the best version of of ourselves, we'll get another chance.

当然，生活总有意外，但我觉得那种非此即彼的想法——今天不做就永远没机会了——是非常危险的。

Hopeful like, you know, obviously, life happens where unexpected things come up, but, like, I think having this all or nothing mentality around either do this today or it's never gonna happen again is is super dangerous.

而且，你一定会再有别的机会。

And, also, like, I think you're gonna get another chance.

尤其是像登山这种事， literally 就是生死攸关，更该这么想。

Like, that's hopefully, especially, again, with mountains where it's, like, quite literally life or death.

有时候你冲了一次，也许结果不会和原来一模一样，但只要继续坚持下去，还是有希望的。

Sometimes if you make that push, yeah, I think just continuing to hold that, like, maybe it's not going to look exactly the same.

前几天我刚想到一件事，很多人有了孩子后都会说，‘过去的我已经死了’，或者‘我再也回不到生孩子前的那个自己了。'

Also, I I was just thinking about this the other day where, I was thinking about, like, people often talk about when they have kids where they'll be like, I my old self is dead or, like, I will never be the person I was before I had this kid.

我们常常觉得，一旦达成某个重大目标，就再也回不到过去的自己了。

And I think so often about how when we accomplish a huge goal, we will never be who we were or we don't before that.

我经常在训练中发现自己这样想。

And so often, I catch myself doing this in training.

我相信我的运动员们也一样，他们会说：‘那次训练我发挥得特别好’，或者回想一次训练时，觉得自己那次简直完美发挥。

I'm I'm sure my athletes do where they'll be like, well, when I did this training, it went really well in this regard, or you're thinking back on a workout, and you're like, but I absolutely nailed that workout.

但你已经不是去年九月的那个乔或艾莉莎了。

It's It's like, but you aren't Joe or Alyssa from last September.

你现在是全新的你。

You're here now.

从那以后，你经历了太多变化。

Like, you have so many things that have happened since then.

我总是会想：‘我以前没受伤时，那次训练做得多好啊。’

And, like, yeah, I all the time, I'll be like, oh, well, I did this workout really well before hurt.

那为什么现在做不到那样？为什么事情会变成这样？

And, like, why am I not doing it this way, or why is this happening?

因为你就已经不是原来的你了。

It's like, well, because you're a different person.

我觉得想到将来我们有了孩子，那个老的艾莉莎会消失，这个念头真的让人害怕。

And I think it's really scary to think about like, I get at some point, we'll have kids, and I'm terrified of the concept of old Alyssa is going to be dead.

也许我们说话可以别这么沉重，但确实，这意味着你要放下过去的自己，因为你永远回不去了。

It's like, well, first of all, maybe we can be less morbid in the way that we say that, But I do think that it is it's like letting go also of who you were because you are never gonna be that person.

你每周、每月、每两年，都和以前不一样了。

Like, you're always going to be something different than what you were a week ago, a month ago, two years ago.

我总觉得，这种变化常常会在事后带来不安。

And I think often that leads to discomfort after the event.

我刚在读，是不是有个叫凯莱布·奥尔森的人赢了特兰斯武尔卡纳比赛？

I was reading is it Caleb Olsen who won, Transvulcana?

抱歉，凯莱布。

Sorry, Caleb.

是的。

Yeah.

他写过一篇

And he wrote

连头发上也写了。

on his hair too.

他表现得太棒了。

He's crushing it.

他写了一段特别动人的话，说：‘我不是那个人了。’

He wrote this beautiful piece where he was like, I am not the person.

我变成了一个能赢得特兰斯武尔卡尼亚比赛的人，但我不能一直往上冲，因为事情不是这样的。

Like, I became someone who could win Transvulcania, and I cannot just keep pushing upwards because that's not how it works.

我得接受现在的自己，接受我现在所处的水平，成绩可能会稍微下滑。

I have to settle in who I am right now, the level that I'm at, and it might dip a little bit.

可能会下滑，但我不能再这样一味往前冲了。

It might but I can't just keep going like this.

我突然想到，其实我很久以来一直在思考痛苦这件事。

And I just thought I was like I I mean, I've thought a lot about hurt.

说真的，从很多方面来讲，‘受伤’这件事对我来说依然特别有情绪，因为我总觉得自己必须一直往上走，不断攀升。

It's actually, like, in many ways, hurt's still really emotional to me because I'm like, I have have felt like I just need to be on this, like, ever increasing, angle.

而且我

And I

知道这根本不现实。

know that's not realistic.

我对我的运动员们也这么说。

I say this to my athletes.

每个人都会对自己这么说，但我已经不是受伤之前的那个我了。

Everyone says this to themselves, But I am not who I was before hurt.

我是受伤之后的这个人，我得接受这一点，也得明白，我不能一直往上冲。

I am the person afterwards, and I need to sit in that and be okay with that and also be like, I can't keep leveling up.

当然你可以进步很多，但说实话，我教练常说，前进一步，后退一步，其实都只是步子而已。

Like, yes, you can level up a lot, but it's actually like, my coach, I'll say, like, steps forward and steps backwards, and he'll be like, they're just steps.

所以我觉得，当我们感到这种焦虑的时候，其实有很多值得深思的地方。

And so I think there's so much to be said about when we're feeling that angst.

我们确实需要一个方向，来让我们知道下一步该往哪儿走，但同时也要能静下来，安心地停留在当下，就只是感受着‘好吧’这种状态。

Like, we do need that direction, I think, to kind of ground us of what is next, but also sitting and thinking of being really comfortable just resonating in the moment of, like, okay.

其实我并不真的那么坦然。

I'm act I'm really not.

我能接受自己不再是以前那个她，不再是那个有了孩子之前的她，这些重大的人生变化之后，我正在慢慢变成一个新的自己，而这个过程确实让人不安。

Like, I'm okay with not being the person that I was before her, before her kids, etcetera, you know, these big life events, And I'm growing into who I'm becoming, and that is is uncomfortable.

但这很美好。

It's beautiful.

这很混乱。

It's messy.

这很真实，而这份真实，很有力量。

It's raw, and that is powerful.

所以，我想问问，乔在这一刻，经历了这么多努力，把自己完全摊开在公众面前，只为赢得亚利桑那之后，他到底是谁？

So, yeah, I guess, who who is Joe at this moment having worked so hard to to put yourself out there of winning Arizona?

而你，当然，你确实就在那里。

And you, yeah, you were there for sure.

你现在在吸收了这些之后，到底是谁呢？

Who are you right now in, like, absorbing all of those pieces?

是的。

Yeah.

你刚才说的每一件事，都特别贴切。

Well, so so beautifully said too about everything that you mentioned in there.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

我觉得这真的很有意义，尤其是对那些正经历人生重大转变的人，比如结婚、生孩子，或者像现在德斯·林登那样，从马拉松转向越野跑。

I think that's so great, especially for people who are going through big transitions in life, right, like either getting married or having kids or maybe moving on from I think about even Des Linden now and the journey that she's about to go on where she's been ripping the marathons and now she's going to the ultras.

这是完全不同的另一种状态。

It's a whole different kind of thing.

我很期待看到她接下来的旅程。

And so I'm excited to see that.

所以，这确实是非常值得深思的一件事。

So I think it's a very, very important thing to think about.

对我而言，我想我们之前也聊过这个，就是那个亚利桑那的‘怪物’。

Now for me, I guess and we were kind of talking about this before, the Arizona monster.

我很庆幸事情是这样发展的，因为如果我当时只顾着冲出去、赢下比赛，谁知道会怎样呢？

And I'm very grateful about the way that it went because if I had just went out and striped and won that race, who knows?

说实话，我可能就会觉得，哦，我太厉害了，这简直太棒了，完美收官。

Like and I don't know, like, what it would be, but I would probably guess to assume that, like, I would have leaned more towards the ability of like, oh, like, I nailed it and that was awesome and that was great.

但我没有。

But I didn't.

我其实根本没完成比赛，膝盖出了问题。

And I actually didn't finish the race and I had a knee issue happen.

再稍微解释一下具体情况：当时我的髋部肌肉存在不平衡。

To kind of give some context on that too, just a little bit more tactically, like what had happened was I had a muscular imbalance in my hips.

跑一百英里的比赛，我的训练计划居然只是每周力量训练一次。

And for a 100 miles, like basically my whole plan was like, Oh, okay.

这根本就是个错误的打算。

Like if I was training for a 100 mile race, I was strength training one time a week.

这个不平衡其实很小，要是跑一百英里，根本不会疼，也不会出什么问题。

Now this imbalance was so small that if I ran a 100 miles, it wouldn't hurt or wouldn't like cause any issues.

我参加科科尼纳赛的时候，很多路段都是走上去的，所以根本没碰到这个问题。

And when I did Coconona, I did hike a lot of it, so, like, it never really had the issue.

但只要是平路或者下坡，我全都跑了起来。

But I ran everything that I that was either flat or downhill.

可当你在二百英里的路程里拼命奔跑，这种不平衡迟早会出问题，而且确实发生了。

And so when you do that over the course of 200 miles when you're running really hard, that imbalance is going cause some issues and have that there too.

说到底，就是力量训练不够。

And basically, it was a lack of strength training.

那我干嘛要讲这些技术细节呢？

Now why the heck am I going on to the tactical stuff?

原因是这样的。

Well, here's the thing.

要不是在亚利桑那怪物赛上出了这档子事，我根本不会意识到，只要多练力量、认真对待，我完全能跑得更好。

If that didn't happen to me at the Arizona Monster, I wouldn't have known that I can be a better runner if I strength trained a lot more and took that a lot more seriously.

那次比赛后，我学到的这个教训让我成了一个更好的人。

And that lesson that I learned is going is made me a better person after that race.

所以，我想强调的是，哪怕你跑得不好，或者结果不如预期，你依然可以因此变得更强。

And so, like, I think the the trying the whole thing that I'm trying to encourage here is that, like, even if you have a bad race or it doesn't go your way, you can still come out a better person.

我甚至想说，我不是建议你故意跑砸，但确实，从一次失败的比赛中，你往往能比从一场胜利中学到更多。

And in fact, I would even say this, I would even argue and and I'm not saying intentionally have bad races or anything.

在一次糟糕的比赛之后，你反而更容易成长为一个更优秀的人。

Like, that's not You're my MO here gonna become out an even better person after a bad race than a good race.

我真心这么认为，因为在我自己的经历里，我始终觉得，成功的道路从来都不是直线前进的。

I think that full heartedly so because in my journey and I I always think about the timeline of, like, success is never linear.

它总是有起有落，充满波折。

There's always ups and downs and everything like that.

我经常拿吉姆·瓦姆西在西部山区赛的故事来激励自己。

The story that I always bring myself up to countless times again is Jim Wamsi at Western States.

他第一次参赛时，本来很有希望打破赛会纪录，结果走错了路，偏离了赛道，最后徒步走完，没能拿到第一名。

Like, the first year he went to go do it, he was on track to win a course record, took a wrong turn, went off course, walked it in, ended up not getting first place.

第二年他回来了，又去参赛，结果没完成比赛。

Next year, comes back and he goes out and he DNFs the race.

表现比前一年还差。

Does worse than he did the year before.

这下他真的是在走下坡路了。

So now he's actually like going down.

第三年他再回来，打破了赛会纪录，之后一路高歌猛进。

Third year, comes back, course record, and then continues to go on a tear.

吉姆足足试了三次才成功。

Took Jim three times.

你猜怎么着？

And then guess what?

他不仅拿到了这个成绩，接下来又去参加了UTMB。

Not only did he get that, then he goes to UTMB.

又一次，没成功，没成功，还是没成功。

Again, like, didn't get it, didn't get it, didn't get it.

一下子就成了。

Boom.

他再次回来了。

Comes back.

现在他是赛道纪录保持者了。

Now he's the course record holder.

我经常想到这一点。

And so I think about that a lot.

你看，吉姆，现在大家都看得到这一点了。

It's like, well, Jim, everyone sees this now.

但我觉得，人们对吉姆其实并不真正理解。

But I think with Jim, like, people don't understand.

他很可能从那些经历中学到了很多。

It's like he probably learned so much from those experiences.

我甚至想到自己的经历，当初我刚想戒掉的时候，也有过好多天，心里想着：就是今天了，我一定要停手。

And I even think about my journey, it's like even when I was just trying to get sober, there were days where I was like, today's the day, I'm going stop taking it.

我有时候能撑到下午两点，但之后就会头疼，各种不舒服，最后还是忍不住又回去用了。

And I would make it until like 2PM, and then I would have headaches and stuff, and I would go back to it.

但那些经历让我明白了，要真正戒掉、掌控自己的心，我需要做些什么。

But those opportunities allowed me to learn what I need to do to be better so I can control my mind to get sober.

那些糟糕的比赛，比如韦斯之前提到的，整个赛季我都表现得一塌糊涂，背后其实是想得到认可。但正是这些糟糕的比赛，才让我真正看清楚了这一点。

All the bad races that I had, like, for example, like Wes mentioned before in that whole season I had where it was just terrible and it was driven by this need to feel accepted, I only learned that because I had those bad races.

每次遇到这样的挫败，我都会把学到的东西用上去，一路下来，我变得越来越好。

And every time I've had those bad races, I've implemented those lessons and I became better along the way.

所以我常跟人说，当你遇到失败的时候——其实我都不想用‘失败’这个词，那根本就是一次学习的机会。

And so for me, I always tell people, it's like when you have a failure, and I don't even want say failure, it's really just a lesson.

根本不存在什么输赢。

There's no such thing as losses.

有的只是教训。

There's just lessons.

你要么赢，要么学。

It's either you win or you learn.

正因如此，失败其实是你一生中信息最丰富的资源，因为它让你明白自己该怎么做才能进步。

And because of that, failure is the most data rich source of information you can ever get in your entire life because now you know something that you can do to get better at that thing.

对我而言，亚利桑那耐力赛就告诉我：如果你想跑好200米，就得认真投入力量训练。

For me, for Arizona Monster was, hey, you need us to be strength training a lot more and take this very, very seriously if you want to run 200s.

太棒了。

Awesome.

这真是好消息。

That's great.

我怎么能不为此兴奋呢？

How can I not get excited about that?

因为现在，我看到了未来进步的方向。

Because now I got a path to be better in the future.

所以，没关系的。

And so, yes, it's okay.

你现在听我讲得这么激动，但你不知道的是，那次没完成比赛后，我也哭了。

Like, you hear me right now all jazzed up, but what you don't hear is also right after I DNF'd, yes, there were tears.

是的，确实很痛。

Yes, it hurt.

我不是在说这不疼。

I'm not saying that, like, it doesn't hurt.

它真的疼。

It does.

允许自己感受这份痛，并尊重它。

Let yourself feel that and honor that.

我可不是要你当个盲目乐观的人，觉得一切都没事。

And I'm not just trying to say, be a blind optimist and be like, yeah, everything's okay.

但我觉得，等你让所有的痛苦，还有对结果的失落慢慢过去之后，真正让我重新燃起热情的是：只要我持续坚持下去，从失败中吸取教训，时间足够长的话，我终会到达该去的地方。

But I think the thing that everybody like, once you let all of that pain and maybe just grieving of the result kind of go past, the thing that always gets me excited again is that on a long enough timeline, as long as I keep showing up and applying the lessons from my failure, I will get to where I need to be.

最酷的就是这一点，再回到你之前说的，其实从来就不是只看那一场比赛。

And that's like the coolest thing is that like and again, to go back to your thing of like, because it's never about that one race.

可能需要一次、两次，或者三次。

Like, it might take you one time, two times, three times.

说不定还得试五次呢。

Heck, it might even take five times.

但只要你一次次爬起来，就能从失败中学到宝贵的经验，也会重新相信：只要愿意学习、肯下功夫，终究会抵达目标。

But if you keep getting back up, you learn the incredible treasure troves of information you got from that failure, and you keep the belief in the human element that as long as you're willing to learn and to put in the work, you will get there.

再说一遍，重要的不是结果。

And again, it's not about the outcome.

重要的是你在过程中变成了怎样的人，而失败，本就是这段旅程中不可避免的一部分。

It's about who you become to get to that process, and failure is inevitable part of the journey.

我们共同的朋友基利安·科西恩，原本说好要在亚利桑那怪物赛上帮我配速。

Our mutual friend, Killian Corcione, he was gonna pace me out at Arizona Monster.

我记得我一倒下，他就跟我说了这句话。

And I remember he told me this as soon as I dropped.

他说：听着，失败是通往成功的必经之路。

He's like, listen, man, failure is a part of the journey to success.

我当时就心想，这话真没错。

And I was like, that is so true.

所以呢，虽然这个故事现在还没写完，但我敢肯定，将来回看亚利桑那怪物这场赛事，我会觉得这是我人生中最棒的经历之一。

And so like, although the story is still being written now, like, I know in the future, I'll look back on Arizona Monster and be like, that was one of the best things that ever happened to me in my life.

说这话其实挺吓人的，因为到现在想起来还是有点疼。

And I it it's scary to say that because it still does hurt to some extent.

但想想那次 javelina 赛事，我之前跟你说过那段经历，要不是前一年那次惨败，我绝对不可能有后来的表现，这点我百分百确定。

But I think about even javelina, like I was telling the journey in there, I would have not had that performance if I didn't have that horrible performance a year before, guaranteed.

我开始明白，正是这些心碎、失败和失去，才让我对每一段经历都心怀感激。

And I think, like, that makes you me so grateful for every single heartbreak, loss, failure, whatever those things are.

而且我觉得，只要你别把全部希望押在结果上，而是真心投入过程，你就会对失败变得宽容得多。

And I think that when you to even just bring it back to your point, if you don't put your stock in the outcome and you put your love in the process, you become to become much more compassionate about your failures.

这样你才能坚持得更久，因为你不会再把失败当成自我价值的衡量标准。

And I think that is gonna keep you in the game a lot longer because you're not gonna see it as a semblance of self worth.

你会把它看作推动你进步的动力。

You're gonna see it as a propeller to get better.

太棒了。

Amazing.