高原训练：高原旅行的心理训练技巧

欢迎收听《上坡运动员》播客。

Welcome to the uphill athlete podcast.

我们的使命是通过教育和庆祝来提升和激励所有山地运动员。

Our mission is to elevate and inspire all mountain athletes through education and celebration.

我叫艾丽莎·克拉克，今天由我担任主持人。

My name is Alyssa Clark, and I will be your host today.

我们继续推出关于海拔的教育系列，这是第三集，重点是在到达山区或比赛前进行心理训练。

We're continuing with our educational series about altitude with our third episode and an emphasis on mental training prior to reaching the mountain or race situation.

今天和我一起的是回归嘉宾、教练总监尚特尔·罗比塔耶，以及我们的会员总监兼教练亚历克莎·哈斯曼。

I'm joined today by return guest and director of coaching, Chantelle Robitaille, and our director of memberships and coach, Alexa Hasman.

我们在第一集了解了尚特尔在海拔方面的背景，但亚历克莎，我很想听听你的背景，你对心理训练的兴趣，以及你和海拔的关系。

We learned of Chantelle's background in altitude on our first episode, but, Alexa, I'd love to hear a bit about your background and interest in mental training and your relationship with altitude.

好的。

Yeah.

我拥有运动心理学硕士学位。

So I am I have a master's in sports psychology.

我一直觉得大脑的运作方式特别有意思，尤其是在耐力运动中，我们的情绪状态会怎么变化，以及我们的心理体验会怎么随之改变。

It's always been really interesting to me, basically, how the brain works and how our mood state changes when we're in, especially, endurance events and how our psychological experience with that changes.

所以我想从心理层面更好地理解我的客户。

So I wanted to understand my clients better from psychological aspects.

我一直觉得这有点像是一个限制因素。

I always saw that as sort of a limiter.

所以这就是为什么我把我的职业和教育重点放在心理方面的原因。

So that's why I focused my career and my education on the psychological side of things.

所以我对这个非常感兴趣。

So really interested in that.

然后当我加入Uphill Athlete时，你知道，又增加了海拔这个额外的因素，它可能会改变心理和训练方面的所有东西。

And then when I joined Uphill Athlete, you know, you add in this extra element of altitude, which can change everything when it comes to psychology and mental training.

所以这又增加了一个有趣的层面。

So that adds an extra interesting layer on top of it.

确实如此。

It definitely does.

我很想和你深入聊聊，Chantelle，关于你的研究。

And I'd like to get more into it with you, Chantelle, with your studies.

我一直不确定该说在海拔上、在海拔中，还是什么，各种说法。

I was never sure whether to say of altitude, on altitude, in altitude, all of the things.

你花了多少精力研究这些？

How much did you All things.

对。

Yeah.

所有方面。

All things.

你花了多少精力研究海拔对心理的影响？

How much did you look at the mental aspects of altitude?

当然，我得说在我的研究过程中，我们确实关注了那个方面，而且我觉得这个方面几乎可以分成两个部分。

Definitely, I will say during my studies, we did look at that aspect and sort of, I would say, almost like two prongs of this aspect.

一个部分是挑战，这些挑战仅仅是因为恢复能力下降、表现下降、睡眠减少，以及这些事情如何影响一个人的情绪等等。

One aspect were the challenges faced by simply by, you know, decreased ability to recover, decrease in performance, decrease in sleep, how those things affect someone's mood and things like that.

但同时也看到，当人们为了探险或比赛而旅行时，他们不仅要面对高海拔带来的生理变化。

But also looking at when people were traveling for, for an expedition or for race, they're also faced with, not only these physiological changes that are happening when they go to higher altitudes.

这不算是个厚脸皮的广告。

So not so shameless plug.

可以去看看我们的其他相关节目，特别是马丁、艾丽莎和我深入讨论生理变化的那一期。

Check out our other episodes on this where particularly the one where Martin, Alyssa, I dive into physiological changes.

你知道，女性运动员可能会经历一些月经周期的紊乱。

You know, female athletes will experience some potentially some perturbations to their menstrual cycle.

她们还会接触到不同的食物、文化和交流方式，这会增加你的压力水平。

They're gonna be exposed to different foods, different culture, different communications that elevates your stress level.

除了你面临的生理压力之外，这些因素甚至会让简单的事情变得比平时更难。

And on top of the physiological stress that you're faced, that can make even simple things harder than they typically would be.

对于在高海拔地区待更长时间的人，尤其是探险队，还有额外的心理挑战。

You have also the extra mental challenge for for people spending longer periods at higher altitudes, particularly expeditions.

人们会经历各种不同的天气和气候，尤其是在那些非常漫长的攀登过程中。

You have different types of weather and climates that you're that people are experiencing, especially on those very long climbs.

比如说，我们那些极端的攀登。

Like, if we're looking at our our very extreme climbs.

对吧？

Right?

就是，你要去极端的海拔，8000米。

Like, you're going to extreme altitudes, 8,000 meters.

你肯定会遇到天气延误。

You're gonna have some weather delays.

那就有很多时间坐在营地里。

That's lots of time sitting around in a camp.

那就有很多时间怀疑自己的能力。

That's lots of time doubting your abilities.

那就有很多时间可能不适应食物，也睡不好。

That's lots of time not adapting maybe to the food and not sleeping.

所以，所有这些不同的挑战都和生理变化同时发生。

So there's all of those different challenges that are happening in conjunction with the physiological changes.

而且正如我们在之前的一期节目中学到的，当我们去更高海拔时，需要考虑的一个重要方面是血氧饱和度会降低。

And as we learned from one of our previous episodes, one of the one of the aspects that is important to think about when we're going to higher altitudes is the fact that we have lower blood oxygenation.

这意味着流向大脑的血液减少了。

So that means there's reduced blood supply going to the brain.

无论你是否出现某种程度的急性高山病，还是更严重的情况，这都会影响氧气供应。

And whether or not you're experiencing any type of degree of acute mountain sickness or something more serious, it's going to affect that oxygen supply.

而这可能会对情绪产生影响，这是很多人一开始不一定意识到的。

And so that can have an effect potentially on mood, and that's something that, you know, a lot of people aren't necessarily aware of in the beginning.

所以人们可能会觉得自己有点更容易烦躁或激动。

So people might feel like they're a little bit more irritated or agitated.

再加上睡眠不足或脱水，你可以想象这可能会产生滚雪球效应。

Combine that with some sleep deprivation or dehydration, you get the picture of how this can be a little bit of a snowball effect.

所以我觉得今天很适合聊聊这些正在发生的事情，如何为这些事情做好准备，以及如何提前努力去缓解其中一些问题。

And so I think it'll be great today to talk through some of those things that are happening, how you can be prepared for those things, and how you can work in advance to try to mitigate some of those things.

我还想谈谈我研究中涉及的另一个方面，那就是一些非常有趣的研究，这些研究大约在2000年代初开始在美国西部各州，也就是落基山脉各州进行，这些研究表明，生活在落基山脉各州的人，基于海拔高度，心理健康问题的发生率更高。

And I wanna talk about the other aspect of this that I also looked into through my studies, and that was some really interesting studies that started to be done in the early two thousands, I would say, in the Western States, so the Rocky Mountain States, that there were some studies being done that showed that there were higher incidences of mental health issues for people living in the Rocky Mountain States based on altitude.

所以他们在一些研究中发现，患抑郁症、焦虑症甚至自杀念头的风险增加了。

So they found that in some of these studies that there was an increased risk for depression, anxiety, and even suicidal thoughts.

其中一些研究表明，这些症状甚至在海拔1000米的地方就可能出现。

Some of these studies show that these types of symptoms can be happening at even 1,000 meters.

也就是说，差不多不到5000英尺，这挺有意思的。

So, like, three you know, just under 5,000 feet, which is, you know, pretty interesting to know.

然后还有一些研究是在大约5000英尺和1500米的海拔进行的。

And then that there were a few more studies that were done more around, like, 5,000 feet and 1,500 meters.

据推测，这是因为人们在高原待了较长时间后，大脑中发生的炎症和结构变化。

And this was theorized to be from the inflammatory and structural changes that happen in the brain when people are spending extended periods of time at altitude.

所以我们说的不仅仅是那些去珠峰死亡地带登山的人会经历这些有趣的大脑变化，在中等海拔也可能会发生。

So we're not talking even just, you know, people going to the death zone climbing Everest that are gonna be experiencing these rather interesting changes in the brain, but they can happen at more moderate altitudes as well.

所以，通常来说，当人们从低海拔搬到高海拔，或者在高海拔待上一段时间，比如度个长假或者待更久，可能会遇到一些情况。

And so, typically, you know, thinking about some of those things that may happen to people or that people may experience when they're either moving from a lower elevation and going to a higher elevation or they're spending you know, maybe they're spending a vacation a longer vacation or a longer chunk of time at higher elevations.

这些事情人们应该有所了解和警惕。

These are things that people should kind of be aware of and alert for.

而且从生理变化的角度来看，我们也知道，无论住在哪里，睡眠不足都会影响我们。

And also thinking about, like, just in general from the physiological changes that happen, we know that sleep deprivation, regardless of where we live, is gonna affect us.

对吧？

Right?

我们知道身体适应会更难，因为恢复更具挑战性。

We know that physical adaptations are gonna be harder because recovery is more challenging.

另外，对于远征的人来说，社交隔离或者登顶的压力也存在。

And then also for people on expedition, the sort of social isolation or even the pressures that they feel to summit are also there.

所以所有这些都会在身体表现上起很大作用，同时也会影响心理表现，影响我们的大脑，影响我们清晰思考和应对变化与挑战的能力。

So all of these things are gonna play a big role in terms of how we perform from a physical aspect, but also how we perform from a mental aspect, how our brain is being impacted by this, how our ability to think clearly and adjust to changes and challenges are also gonna be be an impact.

所以如果能听到Alexa从心理健康和心理准备的角度来谈谈，那就太好了。

So it'll be awesome to have Alexa's perspective on this as well from a mental health and mental preparation side of things.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得刚才那个概述很棒，涵盖了海拔影响我们的各种方式，因为我觉得大家可能有点想法，比如哦，你可以到高海拔去。

I mean, I think that was an amazing overview of just the different ways the altitude affects us because I think there's a little bit of an idea of, oh, you can get to altitude.

那总是好的。

That's always good.

我觉得退一步想想也挺好的，比如，嘿。

And I think it's great to step back and realize, like, hey.

它实际上可能对你的日常生活产生影响，而不仅仅是那种“我暂时感觉不太好，然后我得到巨大的训练提升”之类的。

It could have actually an impact on your day to day life that is beyond just kind of that, like, I don't feel this good for a little bit, and then I get these huge training boosts, etcetera.

所以我觉得这是一个很好的提醒，就是，嘿。

So I think that that is a really good note to take is that, hey.

如果你觉得自己的心理健康状态不太对劲，要知道你并不孤单，而且也许有些因素是你能够改变或控制的。

If you are feeling that your mental health is not in a place that maybe it should be, you know, you're not alone in that and that maybe there are factors that you can change or control.

所以我觉得这些知识真的很好，值得传播。

So I think that's super good, just knowledge to have out there.

那么，Alexa，我想请你先开始，Chantelle提到了一些，但运动员在进入高海拔地区时可能会面临哪些心理挑战，这些挑战是高原特有的，而不是像海平面比赛或艰苦训练日那样的？

So, Alexa, I'd love for you to start us off on and and Chantelle mentioned a few of these, but what are some mental challenges that athletes could face heading into altitude that are, you know, unique to being in altitude versus, say, a race at sea level or, you know, a hard training day or hard effort?

是的。

Yeah.

好问题。

Good question.

所以，关于高原准备的心理方面，我主要考虑两件事：一个是认知功能，另一个是情绪状态。

So there's two main things that I consider when it comes to psychological aspects of preparing for altitude, and that is cognitive function, and the other one is mood states.

在高海拔地区，我们的认知功能会有所下降，所以我们需要意识到这一点。

So your cognitive function is a little bit less when we're at altitude, so we need to be aware of that.

我说的认知功能，指的是我们的思考方式、思考速度、反应速度等等。

And by cognitive function, I mean, how we're thinking, how quickly we're thinking, how fast we're reacting, all of that stuff.

所以我们需要意识到，我们的思维可能和在海平面时有些不同。

So we need to be aware of that, and our thinking might just be a little different than it is at sea level.

特别是像尚特尔说的，当我们超过8000米时，这就更需要考虑了。

Especially, like Chantelle said, when we're above 8,000 meters, you know, that that's when it gets even more of a consideration.

但即便如此，任何程度的高海拔都可能导致认知功能的差异。

But still, altitude of any sort can lead to cognitive function differences.

然后还有情绪状态。

And then you have mood states.

就像Chantelle提到的，情绪状态，你知道，你会更容易烦躁。

Like Chantelle mentioned too, mood states, you know, you're gonna be more irritable.

很多时候，我们会看到更多的焦虑。

A lot of the time, we see a lot more anxiety.

对吧？

Right?

再加上这些高海拔探险或远征本身就带来的那种天生的恐惧。

And then couple that with already this innate fear that can come with these high altitude adventures or expeditions.

所以你已经有了这种潜在的恐惧，再加上认知问题，然后还有焦虑。

So you have this already sort of underlying fear, then you add cognitive issues, and then you have and then you have anxiety on top of that.

这些加在一起，就会导致情绪状态快速变化。

It's like that's coupled with that creates a mood state that changes rapidly.

所以易怒、焦虑、极度恐惧、非理性想法可能是一个大问题。

So irritability, anxiety, extreme fear, irrational thoughts can be a big one.

所有这些都是我们在高海拔地区需要考虑的事情。

All of those things are things that we need to consider when we're out there in altitude.

对。

Yeah.

Chantelle，你想补充一下你观察到的运动员的情况吗？

Chantelle, do you wanna add anything that you've observed with athletes?

我觉得Alexa刚才已经讲得很全面了。

I think Alexa gave a good overview there.

另外一点值得考虑的是，如果一个人在平时的环境里就有某些健康问题，那么在这种特殊环境下，海拔显然是一个因素，但整体的环境条件也会产生影响。

I think one other thing to think about is that if someone is dealing with cert if if a person is dealing with certain types of health conditions in their regular environment, Being in this type of special environment, the out the altitude, you know, is one factor, obviously, but the environmental conditions in general are gonna have a factor too.

对吧？

Right?

可能会遇到高海拔和恶劣的天气。

You could have altitude and adverse weather conditions.

再加上作息被打乱，远离家人和朋友，睡眠也不好。

And then you layer onto that, someone being out of their routine, away from their family and friends, not sleeping very well.

这会让人感到非常孤立。

It can be very isolating.

这些探险活动，人们可是花了不少钱。

People pay a lot of money for some of these expeditions.

对吧？

Right?

他们承受着登顶的巨大压力，却要在帐篷里待上四五天。

There's a lot of pressure to to summit, and they're sitting in the tent for, like, four or five days.

那真是无聊透顶。

It's boring.

他们心里还嘀咕着能不能完成这次任务，这压力可真不小。

And they're wondering if they're gonna be able to complete this mission, and that's really stressful.

对吧？

Right?

所以，当你已经出现认知能力下降和睡眠不足时，还要去应对这些，那可真是雪上加霜。

And so trying to manage that when you are experiencing some cognitive decline and sleep deprivation, you have a little bit of a perfect storm.

因此，提前了解并思考这些问题，学会一些应对策略，就显得尤为重要了。

So it's really important to know these things in advance and to think about these things in advance so that you can learn some coping strategies to work through these.

还有，也要考虑你整体的健康状况。

And also thinking about, you know, your health in general.

如果一个人有某些健康问题，比如情绪障碍、睡眠障碍或者哮喘之类的，这些情况只是其中一些例子，在新的环境下可能会加重，因为会有额外的压力，对吧？当身体暴露在缺氧环境中，身体在努力适应的时候。

If someone is dealing with certain certain type of health condition where they live, like if someone is dealing with a mood disorder or a sleep disorder or something like asthma, these types of conditions, and these are just a few, these could be exacerbated in these new conditions because there are additional stressors, right, as someone's body is exposed to hypoxia and your body is trying to acclimatize.

比如对哮喘患者来说，即使只是知道自己有这个病，心里想着“我可能会难受”或者“这可能会很困难”，这种压力层对于哮喘患者来说，在遇到新情况时本来就常常存在。

So for someone with asthma, for example, even just knowing that you have it and it's in your brain that I'm probably gonna suffer or this is maybe going to be difficult, that layer of stress is often there for someone who has asthma anyway when they're encountering a new situation.

对吧？

Right?

所以这会是额外的压力，处理起来会很有挑战。

So that's gonna be an additional stress that's gonna be challenging to deal with.

而且如果你本来就容易有情绪障碍或睡眠问题，我们知道在高海拔地区，睡眠问题和情绪问题有可能会加重。

And if you already are susceptible to mood disorders or sleep disorders, we do know that it's there's some potential for an exacerbation of sleep problems and some mood issues at higher altitudes.

所以这很有压力。

So that's stressful.

然后你就有各种不同层面的压力叠加在一起，有些压力是好的，有些不是，但你的身体分不清这些。

And then you so you have all these layers of different types of stresses, And some of the stresses are good and some of the stresses are not, but your body doesn't know the difference.

所以，真的要注意，所有这些小事加在一起，就不再是小事了。

So it's really important to be aware that all of these little things, when you add them all together, are not so little anymore.

所以我们得关注所有这些方面。

So we have to pay attention to all of those things.

确实。

Definitely.

而且，希望你们中有人知道这个。

And, hopefully, one of you might know this.

抱歉，问个题外话。

Sorry for the left field question.

但有人想知道，如果他们的药物和去高海拔地区有冲突，该怎么查呢？

But how would someone go about finding out if their medication perhaps would conflict with going to altitude?

这是不是像全科医生会知道，还是更可能是专科医生会说，比如，嘿。

Is that something like a general practitioner would know, or would that be more of a specialist who would say, like, hey.

如果你正在服用治疗抑郁、焦虑或哮喘的药物，这在高海拔地区可能会引起问题。

If you're taking x for depression or anxiety or asthma, this could cause an issue at altitude.

对。

Yeah.

我希望他们的医生会知道这个。

I'm hoping that their doctor would know that.

你知道，我觉得那会是你的第一道防线。

You know, I think that that would be your first line of defense with that.

所以

So

但如果你不确定，或者你觉得不舒服，如果你的医疗专业人员似乎只是敷衍你，不认真对待你的问题，或者说，哦，是的。

But if you're not sure or if you're not feeling comfortable with if your, you know, medical professional seems to just brush you off and doesn't take this your question seriously or says, oh, yeah.

只是说，你没有理由担心。

Just says you have no reason to worry about it.

寻求第二意见可能是个好主意。

A second opinion might be a good idea.

对吧？

Right?

有一些很棒的旅行医生，而且有些旅行医生还能提供在线咨询。

There are some, great travel doctors out there, and, some of these travel doctors are able to do online consultations.

所以我想对那些有点担心的人说，比如，我前几天跟一位女士聊过，她即将进行她的第一次高海拔探险，而且她有镰状细胞贫血。

So I would say for anyone that's a little bit worried for instance, I spoke to a woman the other day who, is going on her very first high altitude expedition, and she has sickle cell anemia.

她的医生完全不知道这是否会影响她。

And her doctor had no idea if this would affect her.

所以，她对此感到紧张，并联系我们寻求指导，这真的很重要。我能够为她指明一位在该领域有经验的旅行医生。

And so it's really important to try and get you know, she was feeling nervous about it and reached out to us for some guidance, and I was able to point her in the direction of a travel doctor who has some experience in that area.

所以，如果你提前担心某件事，不要害怕。

So don't be afraid if you're if you're worried about something in advance.

我认为今天的一个大主题可能是，控制可控的事情，多打一个电话或多做一点调查总是值得的。

I think one of the big things will probably have a theme here today, but, controlling the controllable, it's always it's always worth that extra call or extra little bit of investigation.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这完全有道理。

I think that makes total sense.

我想就这一点多说几句，因为普通医生，我的意思是，有很多很棒的医疗专业人士，但有些人并不那么了解高海拔环境会是什么样子。

And I just wanted to kind of push on that point because general doctor I mean, there's a a lot of amazing, medical professionals out there, but some of them are not, you know, as attuned to, say, what a high altitude, environment will be.

所以我觉得有时候适合大众的建议在高海拔环境下就不那么适用了，如果你去极端环境的话，可能会变得非常麻烦。

And so I think sometimes what fits for the general public doesn't work as well and could become really problematic if you're going into extreme environments.

所以我觉得确保你找到那些了解你在做什么、了解你身体承受的压力的人，这一点非常关键，而不是找那种普通医生，他们可能不知道这些，或者，你知道的，医学知识太多了。

So I think just making sure that you're finding the resources that understand what you're doing and the stress that you're putting on your body is super crucial rather than sometimes more of a general population doctor just may not know that or may not you know, there's so much to know.

有这种特定的专业方向，可能超出了他们的工作范围。

Having that specific focus is is just maybe outside of the scope of of what they do.

我们经常谈论体能训练。

So we talk a lot about physical training.

我觉得我在这方面肯定有责任，我们常说进入高海拔最好的方式之一就是尽可能保持健康。

I think I am definitely at fault of this of how we say one of the best ways to go into altitude, you know, be as fit as you can.

体能并不能解决所有高海拔问题，绝对不行，但这是一个很好的准备方式。

Fitness cannot overcome everything with altitude, absolutely, but it is a great way to come into it.

你知道，你希望尽可能做好准备。

You know, you wanna be as prepared as possible.

但为什么心理训练对于进入这些环境同样至关重要呢？

But why is mental training just as crucial for going into these situations?

对。

Yeah.

嗯，心理训练在进入任何环境或任何探险、冒险时都很重要，即使是在海平面。

Well, so mental training is important when going into any situation and or any sort of expedition or adventure even at sea level.

然后，再加上高海拔，你得考虑更多的事情。

And then, you know, you add an altitude, you gotta think about a few more things.

所以，是的，这非常重要，因为你在为自己做准备。

So, yeah, it's it's incredibly important because you're preparing yourself.

你在为你的大脑做准备，这就是为什么像意象训练这样的干预措施非常好，因为你在为那种情况做准备，尽可能多地预演。

You're preparing your mind, and that's why interventions like imagery is a really good one because you're preparing yourself for that situation and and prepping yourself as much as possible.

当我们谈论高海拔的意象训练时，我们需要稍微换一种方式思考，我们想把自己置于更接近实际情况的环境中，比如在模拟高海拔的房间里，或者更冷的环境中，这样我们才能恰当地想象那些情景。

And when we talk about imagery in terms of altitude, we wanna think of it a little bit differently, and we wanna try and put ourselves in a little bit of a closer situation in terms of in an altitude room or something like that or in a colder temperature so that we can properly imagine the circumstances.

你知道，这不一定总是可行的，但我们想尽可能逼真地模拟，以便更好地想象。

You know, this might not always be possible, but we wanna try and mimic it as close as we possibly can to try and imagine.

好的。

Alright.

这就是到时候的感觉。

This is how it's gonna feel.

我该怎么做？

What am I gonna do?

我该怎么保持冷静？

How am I gonna stay calm?

然后你切换到自我对话，并在那种情境下也练习这种自我对话。

And then you switch over to self talk, and you practice that self talk when you're in that situation too.

我很坚强。

I am strong.

我有能力。

I am capable.

我受过训练。

I have done the training.

你真的要好好跟自己说这些。

And you really talk yourself through that stuff.

所以，这些是我们在进入高海拔地区，以及在生理训练中加入心理训练时，需要考虑的一些关键点。

So those are some of the key things that we wanna think about when heading into altitude and when we're adding in mental training to our physiological training.

你知道，也要加入心理训练。

You know, add in that psychological training too.

在那些漫长的训练日里，想想你在探险攀登时，会对自己说的那些口头禅。

When you're on those long days training, think of those mantras that you're gonna tell yourself when you're out there climbing during your expedition.

这样，当你真正去那里，认知功能不太理想的时候，你脑子里已经有了这些。

That way when you go out there and that cognitive function is a little bit less than ideal, you have it in the back of your head.

你就不用临时抱佛脚，想，好吧。

You're not scrambling for, okay.

我现在该怎么调整我的自我对话？

How am I how do I turn around my self talk now?

你已经准备好了，并且练习过了。

You have it ready and practiced.

你在出发去探险之前，就已经把那些画面准备好了，也练习过了。

You have that imagery ready and practiced that you've been doing before you head out onto that expedition.

对。

Yeah.

我很喜欢这个。

I love that.

而且，我觉得高海拔往往伴随着危险，这两者有点密不可分，事情可能会出乎意料地发生。

And, also, I think with altitude often comes, I think they're a little bit hand in hand, an element of danger where things can go unexpectedly.

可能会有冰裂缝。

There could be crevasses.

可能会有雪崩。

There could be, Cirocs.

你知道，有很多额外的因素。

You know, there's a lot of extra elements.

而且，身处高海拔本身就意味着身体机能会受到影响。

And just the nature of being in altitude is it it's compromising.

所以听起来，如果你练习那种意象，练习你在潜在压力情境下会如何反应，那么你就能帮助自己不在实际中做出反应，而是按照你想象中自己的样子去行动。

And so it sounds like, you know, if you practice that imagery, if you practice how you're going to react to potentially stressful situations, then you can help yourself not to react in it versus, you know, acting as you've pictured yourself doing.

对。

Yeah.

然后一旦你到了那里，心理训练就有点不同了。

And then once you're out there, the mental training gets a little different.

所以，是的，我不知道我们是否想跳到那部分，还是……

So, yeah, I don't know if we wanna jump ahead to that or

如果……对。

if Yeah.

我们走吧。

Let's let's go.

Chantelle，你想补充点什么吗？

Chantelle, do you wanna add anything?

还是……

Or

我觉得你说的，Alyssa，真的很好，因为当我们做这些事情时，对很多人来说，这可能是他们遇到的全新挑战，对吧。

I think what you said, Alyssa, is is really great because when we're doing these types of things, they're for for many people, this might be a brand new unique challenge, right, that they're encountering.

所以会有很多新事物。

And so there are a lot of different things that are gonna be new.

所以尽可能为所有这些方面做好准备，显然，比如确保你的体能达标，确保你有能力做你正在做的事情，对自己诚实。

So preparing yourself for all those elements the best you can, obviously, by, you know, making sure your fitness is where it should be, making sure you have the skills to do what you're doing, like, honest with yourself.

你知道，练习，练习，再练习，并且在各种不同的条件下练习。

You know, practice, practice, practice, and practice in all those different conditions.

就像Alexa说的，如果你有机会去花些时间进行高海拔徒步，那就去做。

So like Alexa was saying, if you have the opportunity to go to to spend some time doing some higher altitude hikes, do that.

如果你能进入低压氧舱，那就去做。

If you can get to an altitude room, do it.

如果你能进行间歇性低氧训练，比如在跑步机或自行车上戴着口罩做不同的间歇训练，体验在不同含氧量和低氧环境中的感觉，你对那种感觉准备得越充分，恐慌反应就会越少，我认为这也是好的。

If you can do inter intermittent hypoxic training where you're doing some some different intervals on a treadmill or on a bike with the mask on and you're getting to experience how it feels to be in those those different oxygenated and less oxygenated environments, the more prepared you are for how it's gonna feel so that there's less of a a panic response, I think, is also good.

在跑步时吃东西是什么感觉？

What's it like to eat food on the run?

戴着厚手套或连指手套时，怎么处理绳索和设备呢？

What's it like to deal with robes and equipment when you have gloves or mittens on?

所有这些事情。

All of those things.

对吧？

Right?

如果你准备好了，那么当事情发生时，你的大脑就会知道该怎么做。

If you're prepared, then when something happens, then there's a little bit more of a your brain kinda knows what to do.

当你的心智能力有所下降时，如果你能更本能地反应，或者不必过一遍20种情景，而是已经在脑子里准备好了几个选项，那就很有帮助。

And when your mental capacity is a little bit diminished, if there's a little bit more if you could be a bit more reflexive or not having to go through a list of 20 scenarios, but you've already cut three things already there in your brain that you can pick from to do is helpful.

要认识到恐惧总会存在，我们可以对恐惧做出反应，也可以回应恐惧。

And recognizing that fear is gonna be there, and we can react to fear or we can respond to fear.

我觉得，正如你所说，Alyssa，通过这样的准备，我们可以准备好去回应恐惧，而不是对它做出反应。

And I think think to your point, Alyssa, by doing these this type of preparation, we can be prepared to respond to our fear rather than reacting to it.

这样我们就能在情况中尽可能保持我们的力量和掌控力。

And so we can keep our level of as much of our level of power and control as we can in the situation.

通过练习，把自己置于新的情境中，并解决这些情况，能给我们带来应对的信心。

And practicing that and putting ourselves into new situations and working through those situations gives us the confidence to work through that.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

而且我可以从经验告诉你，在海平面100英尺处攀岩和在11000英尺处攀岩，差别非常大。

And I can say from experience that there is a big difference between rock climbing at a 100 feet at sea level and 11,000 feet.

差别巨大，不仅在于所需的体能，还在于，比如，我和我丈夫去霞慕尼旅行时，我们进行了高山攀登和攀岩等活动。

There's just a massive difference in, a, the physical capacity that you need, but also, when you have, for example, my husband and I did a trip to Chamonix, and we were doing, you know, some albinism and rock climbing and all of that.

当你加上，比如，准备所有东西，然后坐缆车上去，接着通常还要走一段山脊路，穿越冰川。

And when you add in, like, okay, preparing everything, then taking, you know, the gondola up, and then you have to generally do some kind of a catwalk, a glacier traverse.

你背着所有这些装备。

You're carrying all this gear.

你可能还要穿越冰裂缝。

You might have a Ciroc crossing.

哦，抱歉。

Or I'm sorry.

或者是一个伯特兰冰川穿越。

The or a Bertrand crossing.

你头顶上可能有一个冰川，然后你还在攀岩。

There might be a Ciroc above you, and then you're rock climbing.

这些时刻都在考验你保持冷静和头脑清醒的能力，因为你不仅仅是从车旁边走一条好走的小路去抱石或运动攀岩。

It's like all these moments where your your ability to kind of keep it together and stay mentally sharp or test it in a way because you're not just walking from your car on a a nice dirt path to, you know, go boulder or go sport climb for a little bit.

所以有很多心理因素，比如安全、天气等等，都掺杂其中。

So there's so many mental elements of safety of, like, the weather, etcetera, that are coming into it.

我知道我自己，头几天状态很好，然后我就达到了一个极限，感觉压力太大了，必须得放松一下，因为光是待在那个环境里就很消耗人，再加上身体上的挑战，去尝试一些以不同方式挑战你的事情。

I know for myself that I am really good for a few days, and then I kind of reached this capacity where it's like, oh, I'm so I like, my stress level is too high, and I have to, like, decompress because it's just it's really taxing just to exist in that environment and then add on the physical challenge, you know, taking on something that, you know, is pushing you in a different way.

你已经很累了，再增加那个额外的难度，可能会让人受不了。

Like, you're already pushed, and then that extra level can be, a lot.

所以我可以从经验中说，确实，你知道，有很多因素，那些在地面上看似简单的事情，当你加入所有高海拔因素后，就变得完全不同了。

So I can say from experience that it definitely you know, there's so many pieces of, like, something that might be really straightforward, when you're kind of, quote, unquote, on the ground is very different when you're adding in, all of those altitude pieces.

抱歉，我有点说多了。

Sorry for the for the little rant.

但是运动员应该什么时候开始这种心理训练、这种想象呢？他们应该在训练中投入多少时间进行专门的心理训练？

But when should athletes start this mental training, this imagery, and, you know, what how much time should they devote within their training to specific mental training?

我觉得他们应该马上开始。

So I think they should start right away.

我认为当你开始为远征进行体能训练时，就应该开始心理训练。你可以从设定目标开始，同时要知道在户外你的目标可能会改变，要保持灵活和适应。

I think when you start training physically for your expedition, you should be start mental training, and that's you know, you can start with setting goals and knowing that your goals might change when you're out there and being flexible and adaptable with that.

但研究表明，对于高海拔远征，设定目标在心理准备方面非常有益。

But setting goals has been shown for altitude expeditions to be really beneficial when it comes to mentally preparing.

所以设定你的目标。

So set your goals.

确保这些目标不是那种“我要登顶”的目标，因为那不一定由你决定。

Make sure that they're not, you know, not I wanna summit goals because that's not necessarily up to you.

对吧？

Right?

所以那可能是山的召唤。

So that that can be the call of the mountain.

但是过程目标。

But process goals.

我在外面的时候要做什么？

What am I gonna do while I'm out there?

我想有什么样的感觉？

What do I wanna feel like?

你知道，我想什么时候吃饭？

How you know, when do I wanna eat?

我想确保我在这方面做得好吗？

Do I wanna make sure I'm doing a good job with that?

我想确保我的腿感觉有力，或者别的什么，做得好吗？

Do I wanna make sure I'm doing a good job of feeling strong legs wise or whatever it may be?

但是过程目标，而不是结果目标。

But process goals rather than, you know, outcome goals.

这就是我希望远征队做到的。

That's what I would I would want for the expeditions.

所以，是的，马上开始。

So, yeah, starting right away.

刚开始训练的时候，就设定这些目标，然后转向意象训练，再加上自我对话。

Right when you start training, set those goals, then start switching over to imagery training and add in that self talk too.

练习所有这些。

Practice all those things.

Chantelle，你有什么要补充的吗？

Chantelle, anything you wanna add into that?

我觉得还要考虑，有些方面你无法控制，但有些你可以。

I think also thinking about, like, there are going to be certain aspects that you're not gonna be able to control, but there are certain ones that you can.

所以真的要开始思考你能控制的事情。

So really start to think about the things that you can control.

第一，你怎么确保自己准备得最充分？

So one, how can you make sure that you're the best prepared?

你明白吗？

You know?

这包括，当然，做好训练和准备，但也要关注你的健康。

And that goes from, like, of course, do your training and be prepared, but also, like, look into your health.

确保你身体健康，状态良好，特别是你的铁储备要充足，这样你才能很好地适应，还要确保你没有其他潜在的健康问题，那些你可能一直没意识到的。

Make sure that all you know, that that you are healthy and in a good place, in particular, that your your iron stores are in a good place so that you'll be able to adapt well, making sure that you don't have any other underlying health conditions that you haven't really been aware of.

你在服用什么药物？

What medications are you on?

和你的医生谈谈，看看是否需要调整你的药物。

Talk to your doctor to figure out whether there might be some adjustments to make to your medications.

确保你非常清楚你的探险、攀登或比赛所需的各种技术技能。

Making sure that you, you know, you're really well aware of all the different technical skills that you're going to need for your expedition, your climb, or your race.

并对这些技能进行适当的评估，确保你投入时间把它们提升到你能达到的最高水平。

And do a proper evaluation of where those are at and make sure that you have the you dedicate time to really bringing those skills up to the highest level that you can manage.

另外，考虑一下你的个人局限性和风险承受能力。

And, also, think about your personal limitations and risk tolerance.

这是一个很好的时机，可以和你的向导或同伴讨论这些问题。

And this is a good time to talk that through with whether it's a guide that you're going to be going with or a partner that you're gonna be going with.

我觉得早点把这些事情说清楚，早点跟同伴聊一聊你的恐惧，也很重要。这样你们就能提前了解彼此的优势和挑战，或者说优势和局限，不管目标是什么，到时候就不会有意外。

Talking those things through early, talking about your fears with those partners early, I think, is also important so that you can, it's a little bit easier if if you each are aware of each other's strengths and challenges or strengths and limitations in advance of your objective, whatever that might be, so that it's not a surprise.

你明白吗？

You know?

如果你和同伴进了帐篷，才突然告诉对方你有幽闭恐惧症，那可不太好。

It's not a good idea that when you get into your tent with your partner that you tell them suddenly that you have, anxiety being in a small space.

对吧？

Right?

所以，如果可能的话，最好提前把这些事情说出来，跟他们聊聊你的恐惧。

So it's it's good to try to get these things out in in advance if you can and talk through those fears with them.

所以，就像你，嗯，Alexa 在想象和自我对话方面给了很好的建议。

So as you're you know, Alexa had some really great tips on on imagery and self talk.

你可以在每天做日常事情的时候练习这些，我们其实一直都在这么做。

You can practice that every day as you're going about your everyday business, and we all do this all the time.

对吧？

Right?

比如你忘了什么事，然后你说，哎呀，我怎么这么笨？

It's like you forget something, and you say, oh, how could I be so stupid?

这就是日常生活中练习的好机会。

There's a perfect opportunity to practice that in your everyday.

对吧？

Right?

那是一个消极的想法。

That's a negative thought.

那对你没有帮助。

That's not gonna be helpful.

对自己说什么会更有帮助呢？

What is going to be a more helpful thing to say to myself?

开始把这种练习融入日常生活，让它成为一种习惯，成为一种自然的反应。

And start bringing this into your everyday practice so that it's becoming more of a habit and it's more of a reaction.

你不需要再去思考它。

You're not having to think it through.

同样的道理也适用于所有技能。

And that same goes for, like, all skills.

对吧？

Right?

我们必须不断练习，直到它们真正成为自动反应。

We have to continually practice them until they're they're really automatic.

我觉得这真的很有帮助。

And I think that is also really helpful.

另外，要确保你设定的目标切合实际，并且你的适应计划和策略也是现实的。

And, also, make sure that you are realistic about the goal that you're putting yourself towards and that you're realistic about your acclimatization schedule and strategy.

因为能否应对将要面临的心理挑战，很大程度上取决于你的睡眠、饮食和自我照顾情况。

Because a big part of being able to manage the mental challenges that you're going to face how are really closely tied to how well you're going to be able to sleep, eat, and take care of yourself.

如果你不注意这些，就会开始遇到一些问题，然后这些小问题就会像滚雪球一样越滚越大。

Because if you don't, you're going to start experiencing some some problems, and then all of these small things start to become like a snowball.

所以一定要制定一个切实可行的计划，倾听身体的声音，并把你自己的限制告诉和你一起冒险的人。

So really making sure that you are have a realistic plan in mind and that you're listening to your body and that you're communicating your limitations to the people that you're on your adventure with.

不是。

No.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

我是说，伙伴关系太关键了。

I mean, the partnership is so crucial.

我是说，这真的是生死攸关。

I mean, it it's literally life or death.

那些引导性的伙伴关系是

Those partnerships that guide are

而且坦诚的沟通是关键。

And honest communication is key.

完全同意。

Totally.

而且，还有，你知道，在救援情况下你会如何反应，确保你的伙伴知道怎么救你。

And, also, you know, how you're going to react in rescue situation, making sure that your partner knows how to rescue you.

你只掌握了这些知识吗？

Do you only possess that knowledge?

你的装备分配得对吗？

Is your gear distributed correctly?

这些都是其中的一部分。

Like, there's all of those pieces to it.

但也要不断练习这些技能，还有心理方面的训练。

But also just practicing those skills and practicing, yeah, the the mental pieces of that.

你准备好实现你的登山目标，在高海拔地区表现更出色了吗？

Are you ready to achieve your mountaineering objectives and perform better at altitude?

在 uphillathlete，你可以通过我们经过实地测试、科学支持的训练计划，按照自己的方式训练。

At uphillathlete, you can train your way with our field tested science backed training programs.

可以选择训练计划、个人教练，或者新的 uphillathlete 训练会员。

Choose from training plans, personal coaching, or the new uphillathlete training membership.

查看节目说明中的链接，开始训练吧。

Check out the link in the show notes and start training.

Alexa，你提到了几个具体的方面，但比如说，如果有人在五六个月后有一次攀登，那会怎么样？

Alexa, you've mentioned a few specific pieces, but, like, how say someone has a climb coming up in five to six months.

你不需要讲完整的过程，但你会怎么为那个人规划一些心理准备？

Do you like, not you don't have to go through the full thing, but kind of how would you outline some mental preparation for that person?

对。

Yeah.

而且这也非常因人而异，因为你必须考虑他们是否有焦虑或恐惧，是否刚从伤病中恢复，所有因素都会影响心理训练，这些训练非常个人化，高度个体化。

And that's also super person specific too because you have to take into consideration whether they have anxiety or fear if they're coming off of if they're recovering from injury, all sorts of factors go into mental training that are very personal and highly, like, individualized.

但从一个非常概括的框架来看，你知道，你首先要立即设定目标，然后在接下来的大约一个月里逐步推进。

But from the perspective of just a very general outline, you know, you wanna set those goals immediately, and you can work on them as you go for the first, like, little month or so.

然后，你知道，规划在接下来的两个月里转向意象训练，然后随着临近，进行自我对话。

And then, you know, outline when we're gonna move on to imagery in the next two months after that and then self talk as we get closer.

同时，你仍然需要把这些内容交织在一起。

And you still wanna intermix all these things at the same time.

对吧？

Right?

当你在做意象训练的时候，也要加入自我对话。

When while you're working on imagery, you wanna add in that self talk as well.

但是，你知道，如果我们要处理恐惧，就得加入一些克服恐惧或努力战胜它的内容。

But then, you know, add in if we're dealing with fear, we're gonna wanna have some aspect that we're conquering that fear or working towards, like, overcoming it.

如果焦虑的话，就要练习呼吸技巧。

If we have anxiety, we're gonna be working on breathing techniques.

如果是从伤病中恢复，就要让神经系统平静下来，减少对再次受伤或生病的恐惧。

If we're coming off of a injury, we're gonna be dealing with calming down that nervous system and and having decreasing that fear of reinjury or fear of illness.

这看起来也很多。

That seems to be a lot too.

你知道吗？

You know?

比如，上次我进行这次探险时，我遇到了困难。

Like, oh, I had haste last time I did this expedition.

现在我要进入下一次了，我该怎么办？

Now what do I do as I head into this next one?

我真的很害怕再经历一次。

I'm terrified of going through that again.

所以我们也需要想办法减少对这些事情的焦虑。

So we need to work on what are we gonna do in terms of decreasing that anxiety around those things as well.

所以心理训练涉及很多因素。

So you have a lot of factors that go into that mental training.

我希望就像，你知道，你能为某人写一个训练计划，比如

I wish it was like, you know, like, you could write a training plan for somebody for

这是你的五个步骤。

Here are your five steps.

我知道。

I know.

我当时想，我觉得自己真是个混蛋，居然问了你一个对教练来说最糟糕的问题，就是“哦，为某人制定一个为期六个月的训练计划”。

I was like, I feel like such a jerk that I just asked you the worst possible question to a coach ever that's like, oh, go through a training plan for someone specifically for six months.

你回答得非常好。

So you answered that perfectly.

这要看人，傻瓜，但我说得更委婉一点。

Depends on the person, you dumb dumb, in a much nicer way.

这是教练的标准回答。

The standard coach answer.

我觉得你提的这个情况很好，因为很多人确实认为心理训练是通用的，但实际上不是，因为我们的大脑各不相同。

I think that but if there you bring up a good, like, situation with that is that a lot of people do think mental training is this one size fits all, and it's really not because our brains are all so different.

所以，你知道，我的恐惧可能和艾丽莎的恐惧不一样。

And so, you know, my fears might be different than Alyssa's fear.

我的焦虑肯定也不同。

My anxiety is definitely different.

你明白吗？

You know?

所有这些都会完全不同，我的训练经历也会不同。

All those things are gonna be totally different, and my history of training is gonna be different.

所以你必须考虑到每个人的个体差异。

So you you gotta take in that individual into consideration.