塔博·罗巴克与哈维·雷纳：从人力资源到巴塞尔艺术展香港展会

我想我会像推荐我喜欢的艺术家一样告诉别人。

Think I I would be the same as I would tell people about an artist that I'm excited.

我会说，我觉得这个很令人兴奋。

I'm like, I think this is exciting.

当然有潜力，但风险自负。

There's potential, obviously, at your own risk.

花不了多少钱。

It's not tons of money.

我觉得没问题。

I think it's fine.

我对这个感觉非常好。

I feel really good about it.

所以不管发生什么，我都无所谓，因为塔博尔的职业生涯远不止这一系列作品。

So whatever happens, I don't care because Tabor has a career that spans beyond this one collection.

我觉得这就是区别所在。

I think this is the difference.

以前的很多系列，你知道，当时没有足够的时间跨度让我判断这位艺术家的作品是否具有持久的影响力。

A lot of collections before, you know, there wasn't enough time span around it for for me to judge whether there is lasting power around the artist or not.

在这个系列中，你知道，我知道塔博尔有长远的职业生涯。

In this one, you know, I know Tabcorp's got a career.

他们坚持着一些具有文化相关性的东西，不管它是否有经济价值。

They're holding on to something that's culturally relevant, whether it holds financial value or not.

这跟钱没关系。

It's not about the money.

简单明了的答案。

Easy answer.

你有一些相当不错的作品。

You've got some pretty good ones.

哈维得到了一些不错的作品。

What Harvey got good ones.

是哪些东西特别吸引了你？

Drew you to that in particular?

你之所以这样，是因为你不怎么收藏，对吧？你之前提到过你不太收藏。

And what made you kind of because you don't collect I mean, you mentioned you don't collect much.

是什么让你觉得

What was it about

我不收藏，就是那种所谓的‘黑人令牌’。

I don't collect, what do we call it, the token black dude.

当时地板价还很低的时候，我就花了1000多美元买了它。

I paid over $1,000 for that, like, when the floor was still quite low.

对吧？

Right?

我以前从没做过这种事。

And I've never done anything like that.

我从来没这么早就冲那么高，但对我来说这根本不用犹豫。

Like, I've never been that far above the floor, but it was a no brainer for me.

我根本没有打算卖，我只是觉得这是个很棒的项目。

I have no intentions of selling, and I just see it's a great project.

我确信它将在未来多年里被人们珍视，能够拥有我相信将成为一件标志性艺术作品的一部分，这真的很美好。

I I I'm confident that it will be, you know, appreciated for many years to come, and it's just nice to own a piece of what I believe will be an iconic work of art.

所以

So

他是个漏洞，对吧？

And he was a he was a glitch, wasn't wasn't he?

我不知道。

I don't know.

他是吗？

Was he?

是的。

Yep.

我绝对没有把他放进那里作为对象征性包容之类行为的参考。

I I definitely did not put him in there as some sort of, reference towards tokenism or anything like that.

他就是一个漏洞。

He was a glitch.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

我不是，他他是

I'm not he's he's

一个消失的自我，不是吗？

a disappeared self, isn't he?

我只是在尝试

I'm just trying

现在找他。

to find him now.

但这也相当完美，塔博尔，他只是……其中一个，那多完美地融入了整个叙事啊，而且，

But that's also kind of perfect, Tabor, that he's just And one of it was an How perfect does that fit into the whole narrative And,

你知道，我绝对没有打算，就像我不会去制作一个由黑人组成的收藏品，因为你想想，我怎么可能制作一个买卖和交易黑人的收藏品。

you know, I definitely wasn't going to, like I wasn't going to make a collection of like black people because think about this, I make a collection of black people where we buy and sell and trade them.

这似乎不太对。

That doesn't seem right.

所以，只有一个，并且他由哈维照顾，这真的很好。

So, the fact that there's one and that he's in Harvey's care is really a good thing.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Good

如果有人想知道，客户编号是60 AC。

customer Number is 60 AC, if anyone's wondering.

他们做的第一件事就是标价100万以太币。

The first thing they did was list it for like 1,000,000 eth.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我只是觉得它应该在那里。

Because I just felt like it should be there.

20亿美元。

$2,000,000,000.

他大约是2.02美元。

He's like $2.02

但是，

But,

你还有特朗普。

You've got Trump as well.

我有特朗普，我喜欢这个特朗普小丑。

I've got Trump I love the Trump clown.

所以，吸引我参与这个项目的原因之一是，它让我能够表达出平时无法展现的个性一面。

So one of the things that drew me into the project was it felt like it empowered me to express a side of my personality that I can't otherwise.

我不是觉得自己是个隐藏的特朗普支持者之类的，但这确实是一种角色扮演的轻微行为。

Not that I feel like I'm a closet Trump person or anything like, but it it is this role playing slight

可能是恶搞？

troll maybe?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

有点吧。

Kind of.

我喜欢开玩笑。

And I like to joke.

你知道，当你拥有这样一个角色时，它在某种程度上让你能够进行角色扮演。

You know, when you got one of these characters, it kind of empowers you to role play, basically.

所以我有两个角色，它们同时让我觉得非常危险，你知道的。

So I have these two characters, which at the same time feel like so dangerous, you know.

我可能会跟一个黑人开个玩笑，但如果没把握好分寸，就会被封杀。

I could say some joke with a black guy and get canceled if I don't get it right.

而且我并不是美国公民，我住在美國。

And I could also end up, I'm not an American citizen, and I live in America.

所以我可能会陷入麻烦，我觉得我不会，但谁说得准呢。

So I could end up, I don't think I will, you never know.

对吧？

Right?

关于特朗普这件事，虽然很危险，但就是让人忍不住。

With with the Trump thing, it's but it's irresistible.

我通常都非常小心，甚至都不喜欢看政治类帖子。

I'm usually so careful not to I don't even like political posts.

如果有人发任何政治内容，我都会屏蔽，因为我不想看到。

I don't if anybody posts anything political, I mute them because I don't wanna see it.

我尽量做到政治上中立和客观。

I I I try to say politically as neutral and objective as it is possible.

但现在我有了这个特朗普角色，根本忍不住想试试，结果我可能会被关进关塔那摩湾。

And yet now I've got this Trump character, I can't resist but try to kinda like, I'm gonna end up being I'm gonna end up in Guantanamo Bay.

是的。

Yeah.

但同时，我们正生活在一个如此有趣的时期，我的意思是，选在这个政治氛围如此紧张的时代发布，时机真是特别。

But also, we are living in such an interesting I mean, that's another like talk about timing, to release this in such a politically charged era.

也许它一直都很有政治色彩，我不确定。

Maybe it's always as politically charged, I have no idea.

但现在感觉特别有政治意味。

It feels particularly charged right now.

基本上，世界各地都在打仗。

Basically, wars going on everywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这一点对我来说也非常有趣。

I feel like that is also, for me, very interesting.

而且，没错，你刚才说，哈维，你不想谈政治，但你知道，新闻每天都在你眼前，你基本上被逼着去使用那个角色，去触动那些按钮。

And, yeah, you were just saying, Harvey, you don't wanna be political, but, you know, the news is in your face every single day, and you're just, like, basically probed to use that character and and push the buttons.

是的。

Yeah.

我不想只是用它来调侃特朗普之类的。

I I don't want to just use it to kind of, like, poke fun at Trump, whatever.

但也许通过说出特朗普会说的话，让这个角色自己嘲讽自己。

But this may be by just saying things that Trump would say, let the character just mock itself.

自己。

Itself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这是个全新的领域，但对我来说，它显得异常富有创意吸引力。

This is new territory, but it just seems so creatively exciting for me.

我认为这就是为什么吸引了这么多人的想象力。

I think it's what what's caught so many people's imagination.

它让人感觉很有力量。

It's like it felt it's empowering.

它正在创造一种真正的共同创作现象。

It's creating, like, this is a true co creative phenomenon.

对吧？

Right?

我们不知道它会如何发展，但对很多人来说，我觉得哇，这给了我一个去策展的机会。

And we don't know how it's how it's gonna revolve, but for many people I think, wow, this is an opportunity for me to to curate.

甚至，比如把黑人和唐纳德·特朗普的角色放在圣沃勒壁画里，对我来说都像是一种创意行为。

Even, like, pairing the black guy with the Donald Trump guy in the Saint Waller felt like a creative act to me.

这感觉就像，你还有那个受雇的抗议者？

It felt like this is such a With your paid protester as well?

那个受雇的抗议者。

With the paid protester.

是的。

Yeah.

我完全可以把这些画面装裱起来，摆在我客厅里，因为它们本质上是一种极具力量的概念性作品。

It would seem like I could definitely frame these now and put them in my living room because it's such a sort of, like, powerful conceptual piece.

你知道的？

You know?

这几乎是件中之件。

It's a piece within a piece almost.

所以，嗯。

So Mhmm.

这是另一个原因，让我毫不犹豫地花了对我来说相当多的钱。

That's the other reason I had no qualms about spending, like, quite lot of money for me.

这些作品本就应该在一起。

These pieces belong together.

总得有人来做这件事。

Somebody's gotta do it.

我是从杰米的鼻子上偷来了那个小丑特朗普。

I mean, I stole stole the clown trump from Jamie's nose.

你当时在Verse的Discord里看到那个人

Were you in the Verse Discord when that guy

发那个帖子了吗？

posted that?

真是烦人。

Just So annoying.

是的。

Yeah.

我那时开着OpenSea，该死。

I had I had OpenSea open and Damn it.

我以为会有人把它买走。

I figured somebody would grab it.

他一发出来，我就去买了。

As soon as he posted, I went to buy it.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，

And, you know,

重要的是要注意，我并没有特意去创建一个小丑特朗普藏品。

it's important to it's important to note that I didn't send out to create create a trump in the collection.

这个收藏品创造了特朗普。

The collection created the trump.

你知道那句话吗？

Know what saying?

我没有编程加入特朗普，老实说，是发型在起主要作用。

I didn't program trump in I mean, honestly, the hairstyle is doing most of the work.

对吧？

Right?

但这个发型，肯定是故意设计的。

But the hairstyle, that that must have been deliberately.

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

不。

No.

当我考虑男性发型时，我知道假发在这里很重要，必须包含进去。

When I was considering men's hairstyles, I did know that toupee is important, to include in here.

不管你管那个叫什么，梳背头。

Whatever you call that, comb over.

他很可能通过自己的收藏，将自己的能量投射到了这个系列中。

He's projected his energy into the collection probably through his own collection.

他的收藏不知怎的，在量子层面上纠缠在一起。

His own collection is somehow quantumly entangled.

顺便说一下，特朗普的NFT收藏简直不可思议，以一种超然的方式。

Sidebar, the Trump the Trump NFT collection is incredible, like, in a removed way.

那些东西真是最夸张、最浮夸、最古怪的。

Those things are just the most, like, dosh, lashy, bizarre.

天啊。

Oh my god.

说到这个，我得在我们发布之前买几件，免得大家一哄而上。

Speaking of it now, got I got to pick some up before we publish this and everybody swoosh the floor.

是的。

Yeah.

他是Tabcorp的另一位创作者。

He's a fellow creator at Tabcorp.

对。

Right.

哈维，你刚才说的，确实是这个项目的亮点——人们通过扮演角色、进入不同的虚构身份来获得乐趣。

What you were just saying, Harvey, is definitely the strength of the project, this idea of people role playing it and kind of stepping into alternate characters as a way of fun.

我几乎觉得这是电影发展的一个延伸。

And I almost see this like extension of where we are with with film.

比如，先是电影，然后是我不知道的什么，再后来是真人秀。

Like, okay, there was film, then there's I don't know, then there's reality TV.

这会不会是娱乐的下一步：你扮演角色，自己创造虚构故事？

And is this like the next step of entertainment where you're taking on characters and you make your own fiction.

是的。

Yeah.

然后是游戏，而现在你正在采用这种高度逼真却极其平凡的结构——比如一家公司体制，并试图将其转化为娱乐形式。

Then there's gaming, and now you're taking on this kind of hyper realistic banal, basically, you know, structure of a corporate company, and and you try to to to turn that into entertainment.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我只是觉得，从娱乐的角度来看，这种想法非常有趣，它实际上是一种逃避现实的延伸。

I just think it's just kind of really interesting way of thinking about it as well, that becomes kind of an extension of escapism as entertainment.

我知道。

I know.

我完全同意。

I totally agree.

我的意思是，比如在Twitter个人资料上设置一个PFP，这其实是整个元宇宙概念的第一步，你尝试一下，也许会回头再来。

I mean, it's also like, you know, putting on a PFP onto your Twitter profile or whatever is kind of the first act of the whole metaverse thing that, you know, try it, to maybe comes back.

不知道。

Don't know.

购买虚拟商品来装扮网络空间。

Of buying virtual goods to dress up in cyberspace.

我的意思是，你懂的？

You know I mean?

所以，这就是你可以这样做的一个地方。

So that is the one kind of place where you can do that.

所以这很有道理。

So it makes a lot of sense.

接着你说的，你知道，尤其是在加密领域，我们看到很多人选择匿名，而许多年轻人，无论是否涉及加密货币，都选择在网上匿名，因为这给了他们一种无需承担后果即可自由表达自我的空间，是的。

And then continuing what you're saying, you know, like lots of people, especially in the crypto space, we've seen how choose to be anonymous, you And a lot of people in the younger generation, whether they are or are non crypto, choose to be anonymous online because of a certain freedom it gives you to express yourself without consequences, Yeah.

所以，我认为你所说的

So, I think what you said

很有道理。

makes a lot of sense.

而且它们看起来如此超真实，这与像素化的朋克风格形成很好的对比，因为你知道，那种风格已经被做过了，现在人们想转向它的反面。

And also, they look so hyper real that it's a nice counterbalance than looking like a pixelated punk because, you know, that's been done and you you now wanna lean into the opposite of that.

是的。

Yeah.

真的非常迷人。

Really, really fascinating.

我已经看到有人为他们的虚拟形象创建了账户。

I've seen people create accounts for their avatar already.

对吧？

Right?

我知道。

I know.

这种事我以前从没见过。

Which I've never seen before.

我正在认真考虑也这么做。

And I'm I'm seriously thinking about doing the same.

所以，这是通过一个独立账户来探索这个项目的一种方式。

So it's it's another way to kind of explore this project through a separate account.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就像莱拉说的，我认为我们正步入一个未来，在那里人类会在不同的虚拟空间中拥有多个身份，这可以说是一种趋势。

And like Layla said, I do think we're moving into a future where humanity like, you know, humans have multiple identities in multiple different types of virtual spaces and it's kind of like a trend we're on.

所以，头像可能成为这种未来的一个关键组成部分。

So the PFP could be, like a, an essential piece of that kind of future.

是的。

Yeah.

另一点是，人性本就包含善与恶，我们每个人都不例外。

And then the other thing is, is that human nature is by default is going to have good and bads, like all of us have no exception.

能有一个地方让你释放那些不太好的部分，而且因为你在扮演角色而被原谅，这难道不有趣吗？

And how fun to have a place where you can let some of the not so good parts of you kind of play out and you're excused because you're in character.

是的，我觉得这也挺有趣的。

Yeah, I think that's kind of fun as well.

我不确定。

I don't know.

这取决于它会放纵到什么程度。

It depends on how rogue it goes.

我很好奇你之后能不能跟我聊聊，为什么小丑能引起你的共鸣，因为我对这种‘酷与不酷’的现象特别感兴趣。

I'd love to get your thoughts later on why the clowns resonate with you because I find the whole cool uncool thing so interesting.

就像我们之前讨论外星僵尸和猿类朋克时，我觉得这些特质都挺酷的。

Like when we were speaking about the alien zombie and ape punks and I'd say those are all pretty cool traits.

而且显然如果他们只有九个左右，那人力资源部的外星人会是什么样子？

And obviously if they're only gonna be nine or something, like what's the Human Resources alien gonna be?

小丑并不是外星人，但当你提到小丑和快乐先生点时，我得承认，我有点失望。

And clowns aren't the alien, but yeah, when you told us clowns and Mr Happy Points, I'll admit it was a little bit disappointing.

这感觉像是你在限制这个设定的发展空间——人力资源部会从大额销售的新闻中获益，而我当时支持用狗，我觉得如果有九只狗的话，

It kind of felt like, well, you're kind of capping where this can go, Human Resources is gonna benefit from headlines from big sales and yeah, I was pushing for dogs, I thought if there were nine dogs,

它们可以，我的意思是，我仍然认为

they could go I mean, I do maintain

放弃这个想法。

giving the up on that.

他并不是

He's not

不是放弃，不是，是我来放弃。

giving No, no, up I am.

我知道我愿意为一只狗付费，但小丑这种东西呢

I I know that I would have paid up for a dog, but clowns like

没错，杰米，正是这样。

Exactly, Jamie, exactly.

不，我知道，我的意思是，我现在明白了，我现在懂了，但不知怎么的，它们变得酷起来了，我看着它们，发现它们本身就是一个非常独特而有趣的收藏系列。

No, know, I know, I mean, I'm getting it now, I'm getting it now, but, somehow they're becoming cool and I'm looking through them and like they're own really interesting distinct kind of collection themselves.

而且每个小丑的妆容都不同。

And they each have unique clown makeup.

是的，小丑妆容太棒了。

Yeah, the clown makeup is so good.

其实小丑妆容的风格并没有那么多。

And there's really not that many clown makeup styles.

太棒了。

So good.

真的太棒了。

It's so good.

我的意思是，我们在《扭曲空间》里稍微提过这些，但为什么是小丑？为什么是快乐先生点？

I mean, we touched on those kind of on the Twisted Spaces a bit, but like why clowns and why Mr Happy Points?

我的意思是，我知道我想模仿那些稀有层级，就像CryptoPunks所建立的关于PFP收藏形式的基础认知一样。

I mean, I knew that I wanted to mirror those rare tiers, both in the sense of that that CryptoPunks have established some of the foundational understanding of what a PFP collection is formally.

而且，这些比例本身就非常优雅。

And, you know, it's just kind of elegant, those, those ratios.

但我们想到的是外星人、僵尸和猿猴，对吧？

But we think like aliens, zombies, and apes essentially, right?

这些在PFP文化中是非常常见的东西，对吧？

Those are very much things that we see constantly, right, in a PFP culture.

而这个项目从一开始的整个精神就是，当你看PFP领域时，好像所有东西都已经被做过了。

And the whole kind of spirit of the project from the beginning was like, you look at the PFP landscape and it's kind of like everything has been done.

不仅如此，而且每样东西都在努力变得酷。

And not only that, but everything is trying to be cool.

每样东西都在努力变得酷、有趣、有吸引力，或者叛逆朋克，或者类似的东西。

Everything's trying to be cool and fun and attractive or punk rebellious or something like this.

所以，我知道我得想想，我希望我的特别款、稀有款是什么样子的？

So, you know, I had to think what do I want my specials to be, my rares?

我希望它们有金冠或者激光眼吗？

Do I want them to, you know, have gold crowns or laser eyes?

不，不，不。

No, no, no.

继续沿着‘不酷’这个思路，小丑这个想法很快就浮现在我脑海里，因为小丑就是不酷。

So, continuing the idea of what's uncool, you know, like clowns jumped out pretty quick to me that clowns are just uncool.

你知道，拉洛觉得小丑很酷，但在我看来，小丑在那个时刻被过度使用了，就像在4chan那种地方一样。

You know, know Lalo thinks the Joker is cool, but from my perspective, the Joker is something that was like so overplayed in the moment, you know, like in a kind of like 4chan type of way or something.

蝙蝠侠里的小丑其实非常不酷。

Like, the Joker from Batman is just very uncool.

尽管他在电影里挺让人享受的，诸如此类的。

Even though he was enjoyable in the movie and yada yada.

或者你经常在网上看到一个常见的笑话是：‘我怕小丑。’

Or you see a common joke online is like, oh, I'm scared of clowns.

你知道我的意思吗？

You know what mean?

这是一种被用得太滥的虚假性格特征。

Which is like, it's like a very played out fake personality trait.

而且想象一下，这些家伙都生活在一种企业反乌托邦中，整个大办公楼里，有个小丑每天要到处走动。

And also, imagine this like corporate dystopia that these guys all exist in like one big building and this clown has to go around daily.

每天都有人轮流当小丑，得四处走动，逗大家开心，庆祝生日，所以小丑机器人和快乐先生这类特质是跨越角色阵容的。

Like every day someone's the new clown, they have to go around and, you know, cheer everybody up or celebrate the birthdays and that's why clowns bots and Mr Happy's are traits that transcend the roster.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

不管你是个血汗工厂工人还是首席执行官，都可以是小丑，对吧？

You can be a sweatshop worker or a CEO and be a clown, right?

而其他一些特质则被锁定在各自的等级内。

Whereas other other traits are locked horizontally within tiers.

所以，是的，你知道，就是这样。

So, yeah, you know, that's just it.

这就有点呆头呆脑的。

It's just kind of dorky.

有点怪怪的。

It's kind of off.

小丑就是不够酷。

It's just not cool, clowns.

也挺悲惨的。

Steakly tragic as well.

对，没错。

Right, right.

这个观点很好，哈维，因为小丑确实有着作为悲剧人物的悠久历史，你懂我的意思吧？

That's a great point, Harvey, because there is a great history of the clown being like a tragic figure, you know what I mean?

有一部著名的歌剧讲的是一个小丑发现另一个小丑勾引了自己的妻子，然后在舞台上把他们俩都杀了。

There's like a famous clown opera about like a clown who catches another clown, like, you know, hooking up with his wife and then he kills them both on stage.

这是一首非常著名的歌剧选段，一听就能认出来。

It's a really famous opera song, you could know it in an instant.

这可以说是最著名的三首歌剧咏叹调之一。

It's like one of the top three most famous opera songs.

所以，就是这样。

So, there you go.

它也恰恰是能力的反面。

It's also like the antithesis of competency.

比如，当你想到企业里顶层的那个人，对吧？他们有能力、有自信，而他们会用‘小丑’这个词来侮辱别人，意思是那人不称职、软弱、干不了活。

Like, people if you think of like the corporate the person at the top of the tree, right, they're competent, they're confident and they would use you clown as a kind of like an insult, somebody who wasn't up to the job, who was weak or couldn't do the job.

所以我觉得

So I

我认为这在某种意义上是完美的诗意式衰落。

think it's I think it's perfect kind of poetry decline in this sense.

这是一种羞辱。

It's like a humiliation

最近，你就碰上了一个。

Lately, you just got one.

是的。

Yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

你真的刚得到了一个。

Literally, you just got one

通过

by the

我得到了哪一个？

Which one did I get?

我提交了Office的评审。

I put Office on Review.

我得到了哪一个

Which one did

？

I get?

拿到了Ace851。

Got Ace851.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Good.

我喜欢这个。

I like that one.

恭喜。

Congrats.

完美。

Perfect.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这个真是个悲伤的小丑。

This one's a real sad clown.

我喜欢他，因为他正处于找工作的过渡阶段。

I like him because he's sort of, like, in between jobs.

你懂的？

You know?

他并没有真正投入于这种艺术。

He's not quite committed to the art of it.

这就像一个抽象表现主义的小丑。

It's like an abstract expressionist clown.

嗯。

Mhmm.

塔博尔，5810号小丑是怎么回事？

Tabor, what's the deal with 5810, clown 5810?

我们Discord里有个人说，他认为这个小丑特别棒，因为即使没有化妆，你也能看出小丑的特征。

There was someone Aldover in our Discord saying he thinks it's a particularly great clown because you can see the clown features despite there not being any makeup.

说实话，我看不出来。

I gotta be honest, I can't see it.

我的意思是，这真的很有趣。

-I mean, that's really interesting.

这是那种特殊情况，收藏家曾要求我不要修复某些损坏的部分。

This is one of these ones where there's certain glitched pieces where the collector has asked me to not retouch them.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

在大多数情况下，我会尊重这个要求。

And in most cases, I'm gonna honor that.

所以，是的，我得去和他们确认一下。

So yeah, I gotta I'll check with them.

我提出过要给他加一个红鼻子。

I offered that I would add a red nose to him.

我可以修好它，但我觉得有些打破规则的作品反而挺酷的，我想。

I could fix that up but it's kind of cool to have ones that break the rules, I guess.

是的。

-Yeah.

-显然，这些机器人很酷，对吧？

-Obviously, the bots are cool, right?

我在处理它们时方法有些失误，或者说我必须找到属于自己的乐趣，对吧？

I kind of, I failed in my approach there or I had to find my own moment of pleasure, right?

但我不想让它们成为最稀有的，你明白我的意思吗？

But I didn't want to make them the ultimate rare, you know what mean?

因为那样会赋予它们过多的重要性。

Because it places too much importance on them.

所以这就是为什么快乐先生是最稀有的，因为在我看来，快乐先生在这种情境下就像是终极的邪恶。

And so that's why Mr Happy is the ultimate rare because I see Mr Happy as kind of like the ultimate evil in this situation.

在这个体系的最高层，本应是纯粹的快乐，而这里每个人都追求这种快乐，他就是企业吉祥物。

The idea that at the highest rung of this, there's supposed to be pure happiness and that that's what everybody here is pursuing and that he is the corporate mascot.

他的设计也深受各种品牌的影响，比如保险公司用卡通鸭子当吉祥物，或者说到小丑，还有麦当劳叔叔。

He's also very much inspired by the energy of like, brands, like insurance brands that have like a cartoon duck for a mascot or Ronald McDonald even, speaking of clowns.

就是那种典型的公司吉祥物，怪怪的家伙，总喜欢依附在商标上。

You know, that kind of corporate mascot weird guy who like, leans on the logo type of thing.

而且通过将它们设计得如此简单直接，注意力就回到了工作本身，而不是过分关注角色的独特特质。

And also by making them so simple and straightforward, it brings the attention back to the job itself instead of getting so much about the unique qualities of the character.

它们有点诡异。

They're a bit creepy.

我想诡异就是最不酷的。

And I guess creepy is the ultimate uncool.

是的。

Yeah.

除非是僵尸。

Unless it's zombies.

你看过牧师机器人吗？

Did you see the vicar robot?

哪个机器人？

Which robot?

它是一个戴着牧师领子的机器人。

It was a robot with a vicar collar.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

有人做了一个关于它的动画，非常棒。

Someone made an animated one of that was really good.

是的。

Yeah.

它很有力量。

It was powerful.

发到Discord里，有人想问Tabor问题吗？

Put in Discord, anyone have any questions for Tabor?

大多数问题都是关于接下来会怎样。

And most of them are about what's next.

感谢你，我想说很多，但你能透露些什么吗？

And appreciate you and I wanna say so much, but is there anything you are able to say?

是的，当然。

Yeah, sure.

在过去的几天里，我完全沉浸在了这个项目的洪流中。

In the past couple of days, I've so, like, caught up in the current of this project.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

就像乘着这股浪潮，汲取着大家的热情等等。

Like, riding this wave and feeding off of everybody's excitement and so on.

你知道吗，我发现我其实需要暂时退一步，重新与项目的核心建立联系。

That, you know, I found that, like, okay, I actually need to step back for a second and get back in touch project is to me.

在这一阶段开始之前，它原本是什么样子的，你知道吗？

What it was before this phase of it started, you know?

就像我从一开始就说过，我的目标是让Tabcorp成为一家艺术公司。

And like I've said from the beginning, you know, my goal for Tabcorp is to become an art company.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what mean?

那我这么说是什么意思呢？

And what do I mean by that?

我的意思是，发布高质量的艺术作品，追求创新的艺术。

I mean, releasing high quality art, pursuing innovative art.

但这并不一定非得是我的作品。

And this doesn't have to be just my work.

这可以是合作。

This can be collaborations.

这可以是提携其他人。

This can be putting other people on.

你知道吗，这是我逐渐明确的目标，因为这些就是我的价值观，对吧？

And, you know, that's my emerging goal because those are my values, right?

我并不一定想做那种发布PFP就完事了，然后一切围绕这些PFP转圈的事情，对吧？

And I don't necessarily want to make something where releasing PFPs is the end of it and then this whole revolves around these PFPs, right?

所以，我把这个项目中的PFP部分看作是未来发展的基础基石。

So, I see the PFP aspect of this project as the foundational baseline of what's to come.

因此，未来以Tabcorp名义发布的项目将通过逐步支付被裁员工的遣散费来支持这些PFP。

And with that, the future projects that are released under the Tabcorp banner will support the PFPs by paying the severance to the employees that get laid off over time.

通过这种方式，我们可以构建一个有趣的生态系统，让不同项目相互促进。

And through this, we can create an interesting ecosystem where the different projects play off of each other.

我仍在思考这些事情，但未来的项目都会与此相关，因为这是今后的基础。

I'm still thinking about all this stuff but the future projects will all kind of relate back to this because this is the foundational aspect going forward.

对吧？

Right?

就像我说的，我不希望这一切最终只停留在PFP上。

And like I said, I don't want this to end up with PFPs.

对吧？

Right?

我在想些什么呢？

Like, what am I thinking of?

好吧。

Okay.

比如Pudgy Penguins。

Like Pudgy Penguins.

对吧？

Right?

Pudgy Penguins。

Pudgy Penguins.

你制作这些企鹅，它就变成一个大型IP，然后变成GIF动图。

You make the Penguins and it becomes this big IP and then it's GIFs.

而且整天都是企鹅。

And it's just Penguins all the time.

对吧？

Right?

企鹅合并企鹅这个，企鹅那个。

Penguins merge Penguins this, Penguins that.

而Punks就不同了。

And then Punks is different.

对吧？

Right?

因为它是PFP的基础。

Because it's so foundational to PFPs.

Punks就是Punks。

Punks is just Punks.

它就像一个老牌机构。

It's like an establishment.

对吧？

Right?

然后你其他的，你知道的，我并不是想打造一个IP品牌，你知道的。

And then there's your other, you know, I'm not trying to make an IP brand, you know.

这里的差异化在于未来会持续推出高质量的作品，那些突破界限的东西，就只是我，我想，你知道的？

The differentiator here will be the future art that keeps coming out over time of high quality releases, things that push the envelope and things that just me, I guess, you know?

这就是我的期望。

That's what I hope for.

这些是我的价值观。

Those are my values.

你有考虑过Tabcorp还可以做哪些其他事情吗？

How much are you thinking about everything else that Tabcorp could be doing?

如果存在某种Twitter人力资源系统呢？

The fact that if there was some kind of Twitter Human Resources?

AI群 swarm

AI swarm

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是

Type of I mean

你是这个意思，还是别的什么？

Is that what you're getting at or something else?

我只是想说，这件事有太多不同的发展方向了。

I'm just getting at the fact that there are so many ways that this so many kind of different directions you could be taking this.

是的。

Yeah.

今天在聊天中提出了一个很棒的点子，就是为你的Twitter个人资料设置一个横幅，这个横幅要与头像直接相关。

Dropped a great idea in the chat today, which was the ability to get a banner, you know, for your Twitter profile, a banner that relates directly to the PFP.

一个与头像直接相关的横幅。

A banner that relates directly to the PFP.

那意味着

What does

什么？

that mean?

比如，如果每个头像都有一个配套的横幅，因为你知道，在Twitter上

Like, if each PFP had their own complementary banner because, you know, on Twitter

你说的是那个图片

you said What that image

它把垃圾放哪儿了？

it put the trash?

是的。

Yeah.

有点儿

It's kind of

挺酷的。

cool to do.

不错。

It's good.

有意思。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

可以扩展的方向清单无穷无尽，比如横幅、AI群 swarm、机器人、个人资料页、约会应用等等，你知道的，简直没完没了。

The to do list of ways that this can be expanded, whether it's, you know, banners or AI swarms, you know, bots, profile pages, dating apps, know, it's just endless, you know?

所以

So

约会。

Dating.

嗯，我在想，你正在使用约会应用滑动筛选，而人们已经表达了类似的想法，我们刚刚提出了“坏掉的打印机”这个概念。

Well, you know, I'm thinking, you know, you're like swiping on a dating app and people have expressed like, we just came up with Broken Printer.

你几乎会希望有一种能力，能从审美上对它们进行评分。

Like, you almost want a ability to rank them aesthetically.

是的。

Yeah.

而且

And

然后再回头来看。

then come back to it.

因为人们真的很享受在中等和靠后的排名中发现价值，仅仅因为他们觉得这些内容主观上很有趣。

So since people have really enjoyed finding value in the mid ranks and the bottom ranks just because they think subjectively interesting.

如果我们能像滑动筛选那样，根据审美或其他任意偏好来过滤它们，那该多好。

The ability if we were able to like swipe through them and just kind of start filtering them aesthetically or by whatever whim.

然后，这是我可以在我的网站上提供的另一种稀有性筛选功能，帮助筛选出某些内容。

And then that's another rarity filter that I could provide on my website to help surface some of the whatever it may be.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

我刚刚在想，人力资源第二部分，仅限女性。

I was just thinking Human Resources Part two, Females Only.

更多的资源？

More resources?

人力资源，就只限女性。

Human resources, just women.

我的直觉是，如果我要做这个，最好把主导权交给一位想表达自己对女性看法的女性。

I mean, I think that my natural inclination is that if I was going to do that, it'd be better to give the reins to a woman who wants to express herself in whatever it is that she wants to express about women.

因为，你知道，我不觉得有人想看到我那些胸部巨大的机器人动漫女孩。

Because, you know, I don't I don't think anybody wants to see my, like, robotic anime girls with huge tits.

对吧？

Right?

实际上，我认为人们一旦

Actually, I think people Once

我创建我的匿名推特

I create my anonymous Twitter

杰里米和哈维，是的。

Jeremy and Harvey, like, yeah.

一旦我创建了我的匿名推特账号，我就成为匿名艺术家雷纳·托巴克。

Once I create my anonymous Twitter handle, then I the anonymous artist Rayner Tobak.

我是不是该为你实际做点什么

Do I do have an I did for you to actually

不是他，对吧？

It's not him, is it?

抱歉。

Sorry.

你可以像我做ChatFuckers那样，我在我的Discord上设了一个SheFuckers频道，只有女性可以加入，然后她们可以为我提供女性角色的创意。

You could have, like, what I did with ChatFuckers, I had a SheFuckers channel in my Discord where only women could join and then they could could feed me ideas for the female characters.

而且那

And that

效果很好。

worked pretty good.

他们真的很享受。

They they really enjoy it.

我我

I I

我觉得自己因此很有力量。

felt quite empowered by it.

是的。

Yeah.

这很酷。

That's cool.

我刚刚突然意识到一个糟糕的事情，各位。

I just had a horrible realization, guys.

我刚刚意识到，如果人力资源部门对女性来说也是一样，那就完全是你们刚才说的反面，看起来特别无聊。

I just realized if Human Resources was the same for women, so you had really boring looking the opposite of what you were just saying.

没人会注意到她们。

No one would find them.

我想像一下，如果是女性的同等版本。

I'm like, like, imagine the same version of females.

嗯，你知道的。

Well, yeah, you know

这话听起来很苛刻，但说实话，我觉得没人会选她们。

It's a very harsh thing to say, but honestly, I don't think anybody would pick them up.

是的。

That's Yeah.

我觉得你捕捉到了一些重要的东西，因为这个项目在某种程度上是关于身份的，你知道，人们是如何被代表的，而它之所以只聚焦于白人男性，是因为那群人是我唯一觉得能自在互动的，本质上就是这样，你知道吗？

And I think you're picking up on something The important because this project is on some level, it's about identity, you know, I mean, and how people are represented and, you know, that's why it's stuck to just white men because that's the only group of people that I'm comfortable playing with, essentially, you know?

我的意思是，不管我是拿他们开玩笑，还是在做其他什么事，总之都是在和这些男性打交道。

I mean, whether it is that I'm making fun of them or, you know, whatever it is that I'm doing with these guys.

我觉得你提出了一个很好的观点，我的看法是这样的。

And I think you'd break bring up a great point, like, since I mean, here's my opinion.

既然男性处于某种抽象等级结构的顶端，嘲笑男性其实并没有什么害处。

Since men are at the top of some sort of abstract tower hierarchy, making fun of men, there's really no harm involved.

但嘲笑女性就不行了，那样不太合适。

But making fun of women, well, that's not cool.

我会让女性去嘲笑其他女性。

I I'll let a woman make fun of a woman.

不行。

No.

而且，根本没人会注意到它。

But also, like, no one would pick it up.

我只是在想象一个非常平淡无奇的样子，听起来太糟糕了。

Like, I'm just imagining a very bland looking like, it it sounds horrible.

我不知道为什么。

I don't know why.

因为也许那种幽默感在那方面根本行不通。

Because maybe the sense of humor just doesn't work on that end.

也许这正是你刚才说的意思。

Maybe that's exactly what you were just saying.

就像，这不好笑。

Like, it's not funny.

这只不过是这样。

It's just Yeah.

他们的表情就像是，嘿。

Their faces was like, hey.

关于性别歧视之类的问题，你知道的，没错。

Are faces with sexism and whatever, you know Exactly.

我们可能潜意识里埋藏了一些偏见，你自己知道吗？

Prejudices we might have buried that we're not aware of, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

但当时并不清楚人们也会喜欢无聊的办公室男生，不会的。

But it wasn't clear that people would like boring office guys either No.

就是一开始的时候，对吧？

At the start of this, right?

不会。

No.

我明白了。

I I see

不知道。

don't know.

得了吧。

Come on.

男人会吸引男人。

Men would pick up men.

女人不会去吸引那种平淡无奇、看起来更差的自己版本。

A woman would not pick up, like, you know, a bland looking, like, worse looking version of yourself.

对于女性来说，这真的很难。

Like, it's really hard for a woman.

作为女性，一切都关乎外表，想要看起来更好，做手术，你知道的，所有这些事情。

Everything about being female is looking yeah, trying to look better and whatever, get surgery, you know, all those things.

我觉得这行不通。

It's like, I think it wouldn't work.

我直到这一刻才真正想到这一点。

I just didn't really think of it until this moment.

我只是...

I'm just

我觉得这是一个更具诗意敏感性的话题，你知道的。

thinking It's much more poetically sensitive topic, you know what

这真的非常敏感。

I It's really sensitive.

我在想我以前在办公室共事的一些人，我不确定是否愿意拥有他们的头像。

I'm thinking of some people I was working in an office, and I'm not sure I'd wanna own their profile picture.

但话说回来，哈维说得对。

But then again, Harvey's right.

我没想到我会想拥有这些人的照片。

I didn't think I'd wanna own these guys.

所以你说得完全正确。

So you're completely spot

然后这是玛雅的项目，比如‘丑八怪’。

And then it's Maya's project, like ugly bitches.

是的，但这种风格挺有趣、可爱又带点调皮。

Yeah, but that's kind of fun and cute and cheeky.

这和一个中年白人、皮肤苍白的人完全不同。

It's different than a middle aged white, you know, pasty looking, you know, person.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这真是个难题。

It's tough tough one.

哈维，我们能从这里学到哪些ChatFucker的教训吗？

Harvey, are there are there any ChatFucker lessons that we can be learning from here?

你是怎么看待ChatFucker的来世的？

And how did you think about the kind of ChatFucker afterlife?

ChatFucker是哈维的PFP项目吗？

Chat Fucker being a Harvey PFP project?

我说过我再也不会做了。

I said I'd never do it again.

为什么？

Why?

不，我没有。

Well, no, I didn't

这么说的。

say that.

公平地说，ChatFucker仍然属于PFP的范畴，那些古怪、有趣、酷酷的角色。

To be fair, like, ChatFucker was still within, I would say, the PFP convention of kind of these goofy, fun, kind of cool characters.

我的意思是，我试着在用代码创作时拓展一下这种模式，但我完全没做Table在做的事，你知道的。

So, I mean, I tried to kind of like stretch the paradigm in terms of how I create it with with code and stuff, but I I wasn't doing what Table's doing at all, you know.

不。

No.

我只是因为在Ordinance上做了，感觉头晕，因为我们的结构实在太堕落了。

Was just because I did on Ordinance, I just felt like I just felt dizzy because it was so degen, the way we we structured it.

我们做了大量这种极其疯狂的协作式堕落项目。

We did all these just hardcore collab type degen work.

我的意思是，我请了个人帮我做这些，这真的帮了大忙。

I mean, I had somebody working for me to to help me with that, which really it's really helped.

所以这算很疯狂吗？

So that is hardcore?

那这意味着什么

What does that

更具体一点呢？

mean more specifically?

硬核打碟算工作吗？

Is hardcore DJing work?

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

我知道。

I know.

顺便说一句，这是个很棒的说法。

That's a great phrase, by the way.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

我当时就想，我要做这个，我要投身于硬核打碟。

I was like, I want to do that, I want it to hardcore DJing.

不知道。

Don't know.

这其实是一种推广方式

It's well, it's just so it's a way of promoting

这个项目

the project

通过接触社区、举办抽奖、组织活动——所有这些都能为项目带来大量关注。

by by reaching out to a community, running a raffle, organizing So all that but it and it creates a lot of attention for the project.

这需要大量的组织工作，但对我来说，感觉并不太有创意。

It's a lot of organization and it didn't feel like, it didn't feel very creative for me.

所以，正是这一方面让我再也不想碰了。

So that it was that aspect of it, which I just didn't wanna touch again.

说实话，如果我以后真的要做一个后续项目，我觉得我根本不需要那样做。

And I don't to be honest, if I ever did do a follow-up, don't think I'd have to.

我会在以太坊上做。

I'd I'd do it on Ethereum.

但这个项目让我开始思考。

And but this project has got me thinking.

所以我在想，天啊，也许我真的想再做一个PFP。

So I'm thinking, well, god damn, maybe I would like to do another PFP.

当你把ChatFUKR发布出来时，感觉真的很勇敢。

ChatFUKR felt really brave when you put it out there.

确实如此。

It did.

我的本意是匿名发布，因为一开始我就是这么想的——我之所以做这个项目，是因为我说服自己要匿名，因为我以为他们会彻底毁掉我的职业生涯。

I mean, I was gonna do it anonymously because I was I was just not initially, that is the only reason I built it because is I was convinced to myself I was going to do it anonymously because I thought they will just destroy my career.

你为什么觉得它会毁掉你的职业生涯？

Why did you think it would destroy your career?

不，这和我之前做的所有东西都截然不同，而且有点劲爆，你知道的，有阴道背景、阴茎背景，如果你读一下边缘的文字，内容相当大胆。

No, it's just so different to everything I've and it was kind of spicy, you know, there's, you know, vagina backgrounds and dick backgrounds and, you know, there's some pretty if you read the text around the edge, it's pretty Yeah.

毫不掩饰，你知道的，相当露骨。

Gratuitous, you know, it's pretty nasty.

所以，有很多原因，你知道的。

So, there was lots of reasons, you know.

肯定是你的特朗普角色干的。

Must have been your Trump character doing that.

嗯，

Well,

这就是为什么我选择了特朗普这个角色，因为我的性格中确实有这一面，在我做的其他事情里通常无法表达出来。

that's why I went to the Trump maybe because there is that side of my personality which I don't necessarily get to express in the other stuff I do.

我真的很享受制作ChatFUKR的过程，也很喜欢这个方面。

And I did really enjoy building ChatFUKR, I did enjoy that aspect of it.

我可能还会回去继续做

And I still may go back there and do

因为我自己依然为此感到自豪

it because I'm still proud

这个项目。

of the project.

我依然非常喜欢，你知道的，我为我所做的感到骄傲。

I still really like, you know, I'm proud of what I did.

而且我依然觉得当代艺术界有潜力去接纳它，你知道，我觉得这些作品放在画廊里依然非常棒。

And I still feel there's potential for the contemporary art world to be, you know, the I still think they look great in the gallery space, you know.

我认为虽然这些参考内容本应被理解，但很多非Web3领域的人并没有注意到，也许这就是我们在这种背景下所局限的地方。

I think there's this although the references would go, you know, it escaped a lot of people outside of Web three, so maybe that's that's the thing that we've kind of limited in that context.

但我学到了什么？

But what did I learn?

我学到的是，人们会记住你许下的每一个承诺，所以你必须非常谨慎。

I learned that people will remember anything you promise, so you gotta be very careful.

是的。

Mhmm.

它会束缚住你，你知道的。

It'll hold you, you know.

而且我特别小心，就像我说的，这纯粹是为了艺术而做的。

And I was really careful not to kinda like I said, this is purely an art for it.

我认为艺术不应该有路线图。

I think art shouldn't have a road map.

艺术本身就是路线图。

Art is the road map.