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企业拥有不成比例的权力。
Corporations have an outsized percentage of power.
PFP本质上是员工LinkedIn头像的替代品。
PFPs are essentially a replacement for the LinkedIn profile picture for an employee.
你知道，这就像是我们正是企业所收集的PFP。
You know, it's kind of like we are the PFPs that corporations are collecting.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what mean?
尤其是当你进一步延伸到加速主义或文本封建主义、黑暗启蒙这类观点时。
And especially then when you take this further down the road to the, like, accelerationist or text feudalism, dark enlightenment type of thing.
在这种情况下，人们真的成为了企业所收集的PFP。
In that situation, people really are the PFPs being collected by the companies.
感谢大家收看本期的《Verse Talks》。
Thank you everyone for for tuning in for another episode of Verse Talks.
我们再次邀请到Table Roback，这是他第三次或第四次做客。
We are joined again for the third or fourth time by Table Roback.
Table在过去一年里花了很多时间在某个项目上。
Table's spent a lot of the past year working on something.
我不确定这是否比你过去做过的任何项目都更离谱，但这可能是我们合作过的最不寻常的项目。
I don't know if this is more out there than anything that you've done in the past table, but this is probably the most unusual projects we've worked on.
它的实验性在于，离仅仅是一组图像还很遥远。
And it's experimental in that it's a long way from just being a set of images.
我觉得这是我们迄今为止最接近将世界构建作为艺术作品的尝试。
I feel this is kind of the the closest we've come to world building as an artwork.
这个项目名为《人力资源》。
And the project's called Human Resources.
它是一系列共10,000个PFP。
It's a series of 10,000 PFPs.
而你如何走到这一步，真是一段非凡的旅程。
And how you arrived here has been a real journey.
能参与这段旅程，真的非常开心。
It's been so much fun being part of that journey.
我真的很兴奋这件事正在发生。
I'm really excited that this is happening.
我有点紧张，因为这件事正在发生。
I'm kind of nervous that this is happening.
我们真的不确定该如何推出一个PFP项目，更不用说这种类型的PFP项目了。
We're not really sure how to roll a PFP projects out, let alone this kind of PFP project.
是的，很多都是即兴发挥，看看会发生什么一定会很有趣。
Yeah, a lot of improvising, it's going to be interesting to see what happens.
我认为，要解释Human Resources究竟是什么，最好的方式就是回溯一下过去，梳理一下我们是如何走到今天的。
And I think there's probably no better way of explaining what human resources is about than going back in time a little bit and outlining how we how we got here.
我认为可以说，这一切始于Broken Printer，那是你在今年4月于Verse平台与Solos一起发布的项目。
I think it's fair to say that this started with Broken Printer, which was a project you released on Verse with Solos in April 24.
那么，也许我们可以从那里开始。
So maybe we could start there.
如果你愿意的话，我很想听你亲自介绍一下Human Resources是什么，从一些背景开始。
Would would love to get an overview in your words of what human resources is, starting with a bit of background, if that's Sure.
好的。
Alright.
快速做个简要回顾。
Quick a quick catch up.
我们发布了大约2000份《Broken Printer》系列作品。
We released Broken Printer series of about 2,000.
它们是基于各种印刷技术的生成艺术作品。
They were generative artworks based on various printing techniques over time.
我年轻时曾在印刷店工作，这段经历给我留下了深刻印象。
And, I have a history and like working at a print shop, you know, when I was younger made a big impression on me.
我的许多作品也常常涉及劳动、日常工作等主题。
And a lot of my work tends to, also address, like, you know, labor and the workday and so on.
因此，这些主题都融入了《Broken Printer》之中。
So there's themes of that wrapped up in a broken printer.
之后我们启动了回收计划，人们可以回收他们手中的Broken Printer图像，我会从中挑选并创作出受其启发的新作品。
And then started the, recycling program where people could recycle their broken printer images, and then I would kind curate and create a new one inspired by what they recycled.
这让我们进入了Tabcorp实验室项目，这是我们接下来的NFT发布，人们可以提交他们的破损打印机图像，我会将它们转化为网页体验，可能包含音频和互动性，真正打开了可能性的大门。
That led us into the, Tabcorp Labs program, the next NFT release we did wherein people could take their broken printers and I would then take them and convert them into a web type experience, something maybe with audio, interactivity, really just opening the floodgates of what's possible.
但延续这一系列作品，你知道，这些创作的核心在于拥抱实验精神，鼓励自己不断推出新作品，尝试新事物。
But continuing this sequence of works, you know, these things, It's all about, embracing sort of experimentation and encouraging myself to, you know, put out more things, try new things.
你当时有点
And you were kind
把Tabcorp看作一个艺术工作室。
of seeing Tabcorp as a as an art studio.
这些作品都是从你所说的‘材料生成器’中衍生出来的。
It was like these these things that were spun out of the materializer, as you called it.
显然，这些都是你制作的，但大家开玩笑说，这些是艺术工厂的产出，
Obviously, you were making them, but the joke was that these were the produce of a art factory and
是的。
Yeah.
于是，我开始想象一个共享的宇宙，这些作品都发生在这个宇宙中，就像漫威宇宙那样。
So, you know, I started kind of imagining this, shared universe that these things take place in, you know, like a a Marvel universe.
而且，你知道，Tabcorp 只是个玩笑。
And, you know, Tabcorp is just kind of a joke.
你知道的？
You know?
比如，用坏掉的打印机，这个玩笑是，作为艺术家，我有时会觉得自己就像一台坏掉的打印机，只专注于产出，结果把创作艺术这件事变成了纯粹的劳作。
Like, with broken printer, the joke was, you know, sometimes as an artist, I can feel like a broken printer so focused on output that, you know, you turn something like making art into, like, labor.
这看起来，你知道，似乎有点适得其反。
Seems, you know, doesn't seems count counterproductive.
对吧？
Right?
但我还是会进入那种状态。
But I can get into that mode.
所以 Tabcorp 就成了这样一个玩笑。
And so Tabcorp, you know, became this kind of, like, joke.
好吧。
Like, okay.
Tabcorp，那就是我。
Tabcorp, that's me.
对吧？
Right?
那就是我埋头苦干的时候。
That's me when I'm just, like, grinding.
然后它就变成一个标志了。
And then it became, a logo.
你知道的？
You know?
我的作品深受平面设计等影响。
Like, my work's very influenced by graphic design and so on.
所以很多时候，你只需要一个标志放进去，让整体看起来像平面设计，即使你实际上是在创作抽象图像之类的。
So lots of times, you just need a logo to throw into something for the composition to make it feel like graphic design even though you're kind of, like, you know, making an abstract image, whatever.
所以，显然，Tabcorp非常适合这种用途。
So, obviously, Tapcorp's perfect for that.
这就为我们引出了人力资源的话题。
And that sets us up now for human resources.
我设想有一个叫Tabcorp的公司，它的存在就是为了剥削艺术家。
I've imagined that there's this corporation called Tabcorp that is here to exploit artists, essentially.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
它就是为了做那些我们今天看到的公司常做的事，比如那种邪恶公司的神话或现实。
It's here to do, you know, all of the all the things that we see, corporations doing today, you know, the the mythology or, you know, the the actuality of the, like, evil corporation.
它可能不像老式动作片里的反派那样明目张胆地作恶，但更像我们日常生活中早已习以为常的那些阴暗手段——这就是Tabcorp。
That's maybe not up to no good in the, old, like, action movie way, but maybe a little bit more up to no good in, you know, the everyday ways that we're so used to, and that's Tabcorp.
那么，人力资源又是如何与Tabcorp联系起来的呢？
And so how how does human resources then tie in with Tabcorp?
我现在已经在这个共享宇宙中建立了一个邪恶公司的设定，于是我开始想象：好吧。
You know, I've established now in this shared universe that there's this, like, evil corporation, and I start imagining, okay.
就像雀巢拥有脆脆棒、士力架之类的产品一样，Tabcorp也有许多子公司。
There's all these, you know, the offshoot companies in the same way that, Nestle, you know, owns Cracker Jacks and Snickerd bars and whatever.
就像那些跨国 conglomerates，层层分支，掌控着宇宙的每一个细微部分。
The way that there's these, like, multinational conglomerates that branch down and control every little part of the universe.
你知道吗？
You know?
然后想象一下，这家公司的样子会是什么样的？
And kind of imagining, like, what does this, corporation look like?
但老实说，这种共享宇宙的想法目前只是放在一边。
But, honestly, that's all, like, on the back burner, this kind of shared universe idea.
真正进入视野的是PFP产品作为一种类型的概念。
What really enters the picture here is just the, the notion of a PFP product as a genre.
对吧？
Right?
作为艺术家、创作者，你会反思一些事情，思考一些东西。
As an artist, as a creator, there's just things you reflect on, things you're thinking about.
而PFP作为一种类型非常迷人，因为它在某种程度上是NFT的原始形态。
And, you know, the PFP as a genre is so fascinating because it's kind of the primordial form of NFTs in a way.
PFP 是典型的 NFT。
PFPs are really the quintessential NFT.
是的。
Mhmm.
但我们文化上已经逐渐走出了那个阶段。
And yet we've also kind of culturally moved on from that moment.
但它们确实解决了互联网上一个根本性需求：你得有个自己的小头像，你知道的，而大多数人并不想用真实照片。
But they do solve such a fundamental need on the Internet, which is you gotta have a little picture of yourself there, you know, and most people don't want to use their actual photo.
你甚至可以看到，比如你创建一个 PlayStation 账号时，PlayStation 会提供一堆现成的用户头像供你选择。
You even see it on like, you know, you create a PlayStation account and PlayStation has a bunch of ready to go little user pictures for you to choose from.
你可以选 Crash Bandicoot 之类的角色。
You know, you can be Crash Bandicoot or whatever.
所以这其实是一种基本需求，就是在线上代表你自己。
So it's just like a fundamental deed, you know, like representing yourself online.
因此，我长期以来一直在思考 PFP，我注意到关于整个 PFP 收藏，有一件根本性的事情特别引人注目。
And so I've just been I had been reflecting on PFPs for a long time, and, I noticed there's one fundamental thing that really stuck out to me about PFP collections as a whole.
在我看来，PFP收藏品整体上非常关注酷感和亚文化。
How to me, overall, PFP collections seem very concerned with coolness and subculture.
这其实挺合理的。
And it kinda makes sense.
你知道，你是在替换自己的头像，所以你想融入某个群体。
Like, you know, you're replacing your user photos, so you wanna kinda belong to a tribe.
你想成为一个很酷的人。
You wanna be a chill guy.
因此，这里有肌肉男风格的影响。
So with this, you have hunk influences.
还有那种卡哇伊风格的收藏品。
You have, like, the Kawaii type of collection.
你有动漫风格的收藏品。
You You got the anime collection.
你也有更偏向嘻哈风格的收藏品。
You got, like, more of a hip hop collection.
你还能看到一个像涂鸦风格的收藏品。
You got, like, a graffiti looking collection.
对吧？
Right?
你还能看到一个以骷髅为主题的收藏品。
You got a skulls looking collection.
你还能看到一个金属风格的收藏品。
You got a metal looking collection.
对吧？
Right?
你还有低多边形的三维风格。
You have a low poly three d.
我们某种程度上把PFP当成了一个流派。
We're kind of, like, PFP as a genre.
我们几乎涵盖了所有亚文化，而每一种都始终保持着酷、酷、酷、酷、酷的氛围。
We've kind of, like, checkboxed all of the subcultures, and consistently with each one, the vibe is cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
所以，总的来说，一直在努力
And so, like, in the, consistent Trying
保持酷炫。
to be cool.
努力显得很酷。
Trying to be yeah.
我的意思是，有些东西确实很酷，带着一种讽刺的味道。
I mean, cool Some actually cool in an ironic way.
这其实，你知道的，完全取决于个人品味。
It really you know, it's all about personal taste.
对吧？
Right?
但整体来看，作为一个群体或商业项目，确实保持着高度的一致性，
But as a whole, there's as a group business, like, real consistency,
你知道的。
you know.
所以我一直在想，到底是什么导致了这种现象？
So I I kind of thought about, like, well, what's be what's behind this?
你知道的？
You know?
它对酷和亚文化如此着迷。
Like, it's so obsessed with cool and subculture.
这背后掩盖了什么？
What is this covering up?
它掩盖的是一种平庸，还有，你知道的，文化。
It's covering up, like, blandness and, you know, like, culture.
对吧？
Right?
好吧。
Like, okay.
领英头像。
The LinkedIn headshot.
对吧？
Right?
那正是我的灵光一现时刻。
That was kinda my lightning bolt moment.
LinkedIn头像是最平淡、最无聊的头像，但某种程度上，它也是原始头像的原型。
The LinkedIn headshot is the most bland, boring PFP, but it's also, like, it's the original PFP in a way.
而且它是一种对头像的解构性诠释，并不是简单地将其缩减为一个白点或某种抽象符号。
And sort of a it's a deconstructive take on a PFP that's not, like, reducing it purely down to, a white dot or whatever, some abstract token type of thing.
因此，从这个角度看，我认为它是一种反头像。
And so in that way, I see it as kind of a an anti PFP.
你知道，我在这里把头像作为这个项目概念框架的一部分来使用。
You know, I'm using PFP as part of the conceptual framework of the project.
所以你是决定先做头像项目，还是把刚才说的先放一放，稍后再深入探讨？
So you decided to do PFP projects or put a pin in what you're just talking about and go into that a bit more later.
那这和Tabcorp有什么关系呢？
So how did that tie back to Tabcorp?
塔科orp。
Tabcorp.
是的。
Yes.
所以我们有了这个塔科orp的共享宇宙。
So we got this, like, Tabcorp shared universe.
我们有关于PSP的概念。
We have these notions on PSPs.
我们有了这个LinkedIn的东西。
We got this kind of LinkedIn thing.
我有一个观点，就是存在一些邪恶的大型企业，它们对社会有着不成比例的影响。
We have my notion that, okay, there's these, like, evil corporations, you know, that have an outsized, stake on society.
这就像烹饪一样。
And it's just like cooking.
对吧？
Right?
我提到的那五样东西就这么融合在了一起。
The five different things I named kind of just, like, merged together.
就是这样。
It's like, okay.
我要来描述一下Tabcorp的公司层级、影响力网络，还有这家公司到底有哪些独立部门？
I'm going to describe the corporate hierarchy of Tabcorp, the web of influence and so on, and, like, what are all the, individual divisions of this company?
这个平淡无奇的世界里，日常的无聊与绝望是什么样的？
What's the banal everyday despair of this bland universe?
但同时，这种地方的幽默感又在哪里呢？
But also, like, where's the humor in this?
你知道的。
You know?
因为某种程度上，我其实是在调侃企业文化和PFP文化。
Because in some ways, I'm just kind of, like, taking the piss out of corporate culture and out of, like, PFP culture in a way.
我的意思是，我在这上面找点乐子。
Like, you know, I mean, I'm having a little bit of fun with it.
但通过将这些不同的主题结合起来，它逐渐形成了一种独特的概念视角。
But by combining all these disparate topics, it kind of starts to form its own little conceptual, take.
所以我正在设计一家拥有100个职位的邪恶公司。
So I'm designing an evil corporation with 100 jobs in it.
对吧？
Right?
PFP有很多有趣的地方，比如各种特征、不同的分类，还有当你浏览时进行筛选的过程。
Like, there's so many fun things about PFPs, like the traits and, like, the different categories and, like, when you browse through them, you filter them.
对吧？
Right?
所以我决定，好吧。
So I've kind of decided, like, okay.
那么，怎样才能让这件事变得有趣而有趣呢？
Well, what's going to make this interesting and fun in a way.
对吧？
Right?
我把所有职位都安排好了，分配了这些角色，从你预期的CEO、会计，到那些零工劳动者。
Made all the jobs, you know, assigned all these roles, and everything from the things you expect there, like, you know, CEO and accountant alongside your gig workers.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
比如那些在这个等级制度中明显被剥削的人。
Like, the people that are very clearly being exploited within this hierarchy.
然后，再加入一点幻想元素，比如动作片里的‘解决者’角色。
And then, like, kind of then getting into, like, you know, a little bit of, like, fantasy with the, like, the fixer role from, like, an action movie type of thing.
并没有完全进入虚构，但融入了这种元素。
Not fully going into fiction, but, like, kind of incorporating that.
然后，每天早上我醒来，都会不幸地刷Reddit。
And then, like, you know, every morning I wake up and I scroll Reddit, unfortunately.
对吧？
Right?
总是看到各种乱七八糟的事情。
And it's always with all the shit that's going on.
对吧？
Right?
一切都混在一起了。
And it's all, like, collapsed.
对吧？
Right?
这是一个耳熟能详的观点。
This is a familiar talking point.
对吧？
Right?
社交媒体有一种能力，能把平庸的、日常的、可爱的内容与恐怖的、荒诞的、令人反感的内容并置在一起。
Social media has a way of collapsing the banal and the everyday and the cute next to the horrific and the absurd and the abject.
对吧？
Right?
你的ICE特工旁边就是你的电子游戏评测员。
You have your ICE agent right next to your, video game reviewer.
所以我开始看到，所有这些线索都汇聚到我的项目中，本质上就是无休止地将一切用于内容生产。
And so I start to see this, like, collapsing of, all these threads into my project and sort of the nonstop exploitation of everything for content, basically.
对吧？
Right?
还有那些不断上演的叙事。
And the narratives that go on.
比如，我们知道像Spotify这样的公司，你一边投资武器，
Like, we know that there's corporations like Spotify where you're investing in weapons.
对吧？
Right?
一边又在卖音乐。
And you're also selling music.
或者别的公司，你一边推出Game Boy，一边用和Game Boy相同的金属制造无人机，诸如此类。
Or other companies, you're, like, putting out a Game Boy, and you're making a drone from the same metal as the Game Boy, whatever.
所有这类事情。
All of this type of stuff.
这还只是最轻微的部分。
This is the least of it.
你知道的。
You know?
你有那些生产芬太尼的公司，还在收购艺术品。
You got you got your fentanyl producing, companies buying up the artwork.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
比如，当代艺术界的每一位艺术家，最终都会遇到有人用你不愿接受的钱购买你的作品。
Like, every single artist in the fine art world at some point, you're dealing with someone buying your artwork whose money you don't want.
对吧？
Right?
这只是一个现实。
It's just it's a reality.
所以嘛，随它吧。
So whatever.
我真是啰嗦个没完。
I'm really rambling.
但我把所有这些幻想、平庸、荒诞、政治戏剧，还有真相与谎言，全都压缩进了这个PFP等级体系里。
But I've collapsed all of this, you know, fantasy, banality, absurdity, political theater, you know, truth and lies, all into this one PFP hierarchy.
对吧？
Right?
当你浏览时，它看起来非常平庸普通，但当你深入挖掘这些特征时，就会发现它有一种潜移默化的阴险特质。
And when you scroll through it, it looks very banal and plain, but it's kind of like when you dig through the traits, that's kind of like this insidious quality of it.
所以当我创作这个作品时，很明显的一点是，我正在打造一家糟糕的公司。
So as I'm working on this, the obvious thing is, like, I'm making a bad company.
我正在创造这些角色。
I'm making these characters.
我怎么就决定他们都得是白人男性呢？
How do I decide that they're all white guys?
而这正是这个作品概念上的核心，因为这是一个极其重要的决定，但同时又显得很奇怪。
And this is, you know, this is kind of like the conceptual crux of the thing because it's such an important decision, but it's also like a weird decision.
对吧？
Right?
我无法忍受的是企业乌托邦这种虚假概念。
And something that I can't stand is the, the, like, fakeness of the idea of a corporate utopia.
对吧？
Right?
这个项目是反企业乌托邦的。
Like, this project is anti corporate utopia.
这个项目不相信企业乌托邦。
This project does not believe in corporate utopia.
尤其是经历了BLM运动之后，我们看到了大量企业所谓的多元包容作秀。
And especially, you know, post BLM and all this stuff, we saw so much, like, corporate diversity washing.
你知道的？
You know?
我的意思是，所谓的‘觉醒洗白’之类的种种行为。
I mean, woke washing and all this stuff.
而这并不是这个项目的核心理念。
And that's, like, it's not the conceptual angle of this project.
我不想试图描绘一个人人平等的公司乌托邦。
I don't wanna try to describe a corporate utopia where everybody's equal.
这个项目的核心就是一切都很糟糕。
The point of this is that everything's wrong.
你知道的？
You know?
同样地，从质的角度来看
And then likewise, there's, like, qualitatively
是邪恶的目标。
evil goals.
但听起来你同时也在试图摆脱邪恶一面的洗白行为。
But it sounds like you're trying to get away from, like, the weight washing at the same time is on the evil side of things.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我不知道。
I don't know.
这是故意搞得让人困惑吗？
Is it kind of deliberately confusing?
我的逻辑是，那个网络迷因里的人，你知道我说的是谁吧？
I mean, my logic is that the guy from the meme, like, you know what I mean?
某种意义上，我把它简化为：这样感觉才对。
Like, somehow, I've boiled it down to this is what feels right.
从根本上说，作为一名艺术家，我不希望自己具有剥削性。
And fundamentally, as an artist, I don't want to be extractive myself.
把一个黑人塑造成Grubhub司机，然后我从中赚钱，这显然不对。
It certainly doesn't seem right casting a black guy as a Grubhub driver and me making money from that PFT.
这个问题没有简单的答案，但不知怎的，这成了我所构建的这种概念性 trickle down 情况。
There's not an easy answer to this, but somehow this is like the conceptual trickle down situation that I've kinda make this situation.
最终，我创造了这样一个由一万个极客构成的等级体系。
And ultimately, I'm, you know, I've made this, hierarchy of 10,000 dorks.
我就是这么看的。
That's kind of how I see it.
你能稍微讲讲你是怎么创作出来的吗？
Would it be possible to speak to the process of how you made it a bit?
因为以你这种方式创作，我觉得在概念上挺有意思的，我想等你解释完后我们再深入探讨。
Because the way you've made them, I think, there's something kind of conceptually interesting there, which I guess we can get to once you've explained it.
当然可以。
Sure.
但说实话，我们真的很想听听整个创作过程是怎样的。
But, yeah, we'd love to just hear what the process entailed.
当然可以。
Absolutely.
当你在做一个头像项目时，本质上你就是在制作一个纸娃娃。
So when you're making a PFP project, fundamentally, you're making a paper doll.
对吧？
Right?
这就是为什么我们看到大多数PFP项目都是矢量图形或三维图形，因为你可以非常容易且干净地关闭这些图层。
And it's that's why we see what most PFP projects are vector graphics or three d graphics as you can very easily and cleanly turn off those layers.
对吧？
Right?
或者，你也知道，如果你看看那种分裂的、干巴巴的填充型PFP，或者像Miele那种类型，有点像Photoshop拼贴画，而不是像无聊的猿猴那种每个元素都必须完美契合的风格，那种风格的关键就在于它并不完全契合。
Or, also, you know, if you take the, like, schizo, the dry filler type of, PFP or the Miele type of thing, kind of like a Photoshop collage and unlike a Bored Ape type of thing where everything is clean and needs to fit together perfectly, that's kind of about that it doesn't fit together quite perfectly.
对吧？
Right?
所以我开始尝试，要如何为我的项目构建图层系统。
So I started experimenting with how am I going to create the layering system for my project.
而且，你 presumably 并不需要做这些，毕竟你是在用AI。
And And you presumably didn't need to do any of this given you're working with AI.
哦，这个我们稍后再讲。
Oh, well, we'll get into that in a second.
你会看到我是如何最终决定使用AI的，因为这并不是我最初的设想。
You'll see how I came to the conclusion of using AI because that wasn't my initial thought.
对吧？
Right?
好的。
Okay.
我最初的设想是，好吧。
My initial thought was, okay.
我要通过叠加特征来创建这些角色。
Somehow I'm going to layer traits to create these characters.
而且，你知道，好吧。
And, you know, okay.
我在用Photoshop给这些人修图，给他们穿上衣服，就像摆弄一个小模特一样。
I'm photoshopping these guys, and I'm putting I'm dressing them in clothes like a little mannequin.
这真的花了很多时间，你知道，得把衬衫剪下来，再调整形状，让它完美贴合。
And that honestly takes a lot of time, you know, cutting out the shirt and warping it to the guy so it fits just right.
然后你可以把模特打扮得不错，但最终，阴影和边缘的精细处理才是关键，这会让你从原本三十分钟的图片，花上五个小时，甚至一整天，来修一张图，只为了让人看起来更真实。
And then you can get the the mannequin dressed pretty good, but ultimately, the finessing of the shadows and the edges and all this is where you're going to go from thirty minutes in image to, like, five hours an entire day editing one photo trying to get this man looking realistic.
对吧？
Right?
所以，要是我能 somehow 用 AI 来平滑并完善边缘之类的就好了。
So it's like, if only I could somehow use AI to, you know, smooth out and perfect the edges, whatever.
理论上，我可以一次上传一张图片到 ChatGPT，然后说：嘿，让它看起来像这样。
So theoretically, could upload these images one at a time to ChatGPT and say, hey, make it look like this.
而且这也只是我们过去三个月才逐渐适应的一项功能。
And it also granted this is a feature that has only we've only gotten used to in the past three months.
但你知道，这显然不适合批量处理。
But, you know, that obviously doesn't work for a batch process.
它也不适用于基于特征的渲染系统。
It doesn't work for a trait based rendering system.
所以我的解决方案是，我需要学会把 AI 当作一个二维渲染引擎来用，它并不是从零开始生成图像。
So my solution was somehow I need to learn how to use AI as a two d rendering engine, where it's not really rendering the image from nothing.
它几乎只是渲染图像最后的那 10%。
It's almost just rendering the last 10% of an image.
抱歉。
Sorry.
你能解释一下为什么直接训练一个模型，然后一次性生成上万个并不合理吗？
Can you just can you just speak though to why you didn't why it didn't make sense just to train a model and, have 10 thousands just knocked out like that?
为什么这符合那种刻板的、基于特征的...
Why does it fit the kind of regimented trait based
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，为了尊重这个类型，并且为了真正融入这个类型，你知道，PFP项目之所以能脱颖而出，正是当你在网格中滚动时能看到那种一致性。
I mean, out of out of respect to the genre and in terms of embracing the genre, you know, like, that's part of what makes a PFP project, you know, sing, if you will, is when you can scroll through that grid and you see that consistency.
对吧？
Right?
或者你可以切换其中一个元素。
Or you can toggle one thing.
你可以看到那些眼镜是同一副眼镜。
You can see that those glasses are the same glasses.
对吧？
Right?
我们说了这么多关于AI垃圾的事。
We talked so much about AI slop.
对吧？
Right?
到底是什么让AI变成垃圾？
And what what makes AI slop?
就是当它有点糟糕的时候。
It's when it's just a little bit shitty.
对吧？
Right?
所以当你按蓝色夹克筛选时，我希望每次看到的那件蓝色夹克都完全一模一样。
And so when you filter by the blue jacket, I want that blue jacket to look exactly the same every single time.
如果你只是在ChatGPT或别的什么平台上输入‘穿蓝色夹克的男子，四分之三侧面肖像，穿蓝色夹克的商人，短棕色头发，蓝眼睛’，每次得到的都会是完全不同的男人，所有细节都完全不同。
And if you just type in, you know, guy wearing blue jacket on, Josh GPT or whatever, you know, three quarters headshot of a businessman wearing a blue jacket with short brown hair and blue eyes, you're gonna get a completely different man with completely different everything every single time.
当你在网格中查看时，它看起来就像一堆AI生成的图片。
And then when you look at it in a grid, it's gonna look like just a bunch of AI images.
它不会像查看一组头像时那样，具有那种彼此关联的共鸣感。
It's not going to have that sort of resonant quality of when you look at a grid of PFPs and they all relate to each other.
所以，大概存在一个最优的特征数量。
So presumably, there's, like, an optimal number of traits.
特征太多，就会变成那样，你甚至都注意不到。
Too many traits, and it'll feel like that, you won't even notice it.
太少的话。
Not enough.
可能会很无聊。
It might be boring.
是这种情况吗？
Like, is is that the case?
是否存在一个最优的数量？
Is there an optimal number?
我确实根据职业来设计这些特征，确保每个特征都能体现和表达出相应的职业，这实际上需要了相当多的创意思考，我也不知道该怎么形容。
I really based my traits around the jobs and making sure that each one kind of embodied and expressed the jobs, and this actually took a surprisingly, significant amount of, I don't know, like, creative thinking or whatever.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
比如，拿一个很明确的例子，血汗工厂订单。
Like, take something very clear like sweatshop order.
这很容易说，好吧。
It's very easy to say, okay.
这就是这个人可能会穿的衣服。
This is kind of what clothes this guy might wear.
对吧？
Right?
但当你在讨论会计师和律师之间的区别时。
But then when you're talking about the difference between accountant and, lawyer.
好吧。
Okay.
我们可以想象这种商务着装，但我要如何体现这个会计的形象呢？
We can picture this business attire, but how do how do I embody this account?
我要如何体现这个律师的形象呢？
How do I embody this lawyer?
他们服装上的细微差别在哪里？
What's the subtle differences in their clothing?
其中一个人的服装材质稍微更昂贵一些，等等。
One's clothing, the materials are slightly more expensive and so on.
某种程度上，这也是我延续PFP项目个人风格的一部分，因为我大幅增加了服装选项的多样性。
And in some ways, this is also part of a way that I'm also evolving or continuing the thread of PFPs doing my own thing a little bit is that I have heavily weighted a huge variety of clothing options.
然后还有30种发型，搭配几种不同的基础样式，还有其他各种元素。
And then there's 30 hairstyles with a couple of various bases, you know, other things going on.
但接着我们可以通过筛选，比如所有打领带的人。
But being able to then filter through, okay, everybody that's wearing a tie.
看看所有打领带的男性，或者更简单地分类，比如直接区分休闲装和正式装。
Let's see every guy that's wearing a tie or filter even simpler, like, okay, let's just divide between casual and formal, so on.
相比之下，如果专门筛选条纹衬衫、蓝色衬衫，你知道，在男性职场穿搭中，蓝色衬衫搭配蓝色领带、灰色西装，这些元素有各种不同的组合。
Versus filtering specifically for striped shirt, blue shirt, you know, because in men's office fashion, you know, there's a lot of blue shirt mixed with blue tie, mixed with gray jacket, and all those things in different combinations.
所以如果特征列表有2000项，比如白衬衫、红领带、蓝色什么的
And so if the trait list is 2,000 items of white shirt, red tie, blue you know what
我的意思是？
I mean?
诸如此类的东西。
Yada yada yada.
这就会变得非常，有点毫无意义。
It gets very it's kind of, like, meaningless.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
所以对我来说，如果按戴领带的人、穿西装的人来筛选会更有趣，或者可以同时筛选西装加领带，再加蓝色衬衫，然后你就能看到，好吧。
So to me, it's more interesting if you filter by everybody that has a tie or everybody that has a jacket, or you can do jacket and tie and then blue shirt, and then you see, okay.
这是那个穿黑色的家伙，
This is the guy with black,
知道。
know.
对。
Right.
我还没一次性看过这么多几百甚至上千个这样的图片。
I I haven't I haven't seen hundreds or thousands of these in one go yet.
从浏览中能明显看出这些特征是存在的吗？
Is it obvious looking through it that traits are a thing?
因为那些朋克风格的3D眼镜，全都一模一样。
Because the punks three d glasses, they're all identical.
这很明显。
It's pretty obvious.
显然，你的蓝色夹克可能也是一样的，但它们的呈现效果会不同。
Obviously, yours, the blue jackets may be identical, but they're gonna be rendered differently.
有些可能会比较旧。
Some will be maybe older.
我真的不知道。
I I I don't know.
是的。
Yeah.
特质明显到什么程度？
How how how obvious is it that traits are a thing?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这很明显，因为它们非常一致。
I think it's I think it's pretty obvious because of the consistency of it.
某种程度上，我们理所当然地认为自己对朋克风格很熟悉，当我们看到50个随机朋克的网格时。
Now to some degree, we take for granted how familiar we are with punks as we pulled up a grid of 50 random punks.
那里肯定会有一些重复的特质。
There's gonna be some duplicated traits there.
但实际上没多少。
Really not that many.
当你滚动浏览时，你会逐渐明白，这些就是特征。
And so as you scroll through, you kind of learn, okay, these are the traits.
对吧？
Right?
这些是非常容易辨认的东西。
These are the very recognizable things.
但你尤其会在发型上看到这一点。
But you'll especially see it, like, in the, the hairstyles.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
嗯。
There's Mhmm.
我有大约30种不同长度的男性发型。
I have, like, 30 different men's hairstyles of various lengths and so on.
你会注意到，即使这些头发是逼真渲染的，每一根发丝的走向每次都完全一致。
You'll see that, okay, the the strands of hair land the same every single time even though they're rendered photorealistic.
你知道吧？
You know?
我猜你拥有的特征比朋克更多？
I'm guessing you've got more traits than punks?
是的。
Yeah.
我有很多、很多、很多特征。
I have I have many, many, many traits.
构建一个人物的过程有点令人毛骨悚然。
The kind of constructing a a person thing is a little creepy.
你曾经说过，这其实提出了一个问题：我们一直以来是不是都是头像？
You said at one point, it kind of asked the question, were we the PFPs all along?
嗯。
Mhmm.
你能就此谈谈吗？
Could you speak to that at all?
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
当然。
Sure.
是的。
Yeah.
我们都是NPC吗？
Are we are we are we all NPCs?
你是在做某种评论吗？
Are you kind of making any kind of commentary?
好吧。
Okay.
PFP是我们收集的东西。
A PFP is something we collect.
对吧？
Right?
它除了作为我们贴上去的一张图片之外，还具有货币价值。
It has a monetary value aside from just being a picture that we stick on it.
对吧？
Right?
而PFP本质上是员工LinkedIn头像的替代品。
And PFPs are essentially a replacement for the LinkedIn profile picture for an employee.
你知道，企业拥有不成比例的权力。
You know, corporations have an outsized percentage of power.
你知道，这就像是我们是企业收集的PFP。
You know, it's kind of like we are the PFPs that corporations are collecting.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what mean?
尤其是当你进一步延伸到加速主义，或者技术封建主义、黑暗启蒙这类概念时。
And especially then when you, you know, take this, further down the road to the, like, you know, accelerationist or, like, tech feudalism, dark enlightenment type of thing.
在这种情况下，人们真的就成了公司收集的PFP。
In that situation, people really are the PFPs being collected by the companies.
那其实就是人力资源部门所做的事情。
That's then, like, what human resources is.
我想，最后一点是人力资源如何为未来的Tabcorp公司埋下种子。
I guess the final piece is how human resources kind of seeds the future Tabcorp Inc.
嗯。
Mhmm.
接下来会发生什么？
And what happens next?
当然。
Sure.
我的意思是，这一切都只是推测，但PSP文化与PFP社群的一个重要部分就是，好吧。
I mean, it's all this is all just like speculation, but, you know, a big part of PSP culture and PFP communities is like, okay.
对。
Yes.
PFP，我们正在建立一个社群。
PFPs, we're building a community.
这就是我们建设的方式。
This is how we build.
这就是你明白我的意思吧？
This is what you know what I mean?
这就是路线图上即将推出的内容。
This is what's coming down the the road map.
对吧？
Right?
我把这个项目描述为对PFP企业文化的讽刺，但同时也投入了大量心血和思考。
I've described this project as being both a parody of PFPs corporate culture, but also something that I've sincerely put a whole lot of work and thought into.
所以我也想对这一部分做同样的事——也就是实用功能、社区以及所有这些方面。
And so I I want to do the same thing with that part of it too, the the utility and the community and all this types of stuff.
你知道的？
You know?
你希望人力资源部能成为这样的社区吗？
Are you hoping that human resources will become that kind of community?
我希望如此，但我不想搞一个充满投票、官僚主义之类东西的社区。
I hope so, but I don't, you know, I don't want a community where there's, like, a bunch of, like, voting and bureaucracy bureaucracy and stuff.
我更愿意打造一个以艺术创作、艺术机会和优质艺术为核心的社群。
I would rather create a community of, art making and art opportunities and good art.
说实话，当我提到社群时，我更想到的是艺术家而非收藏家。
And, honestly, when I say community, I am thinking more artist versus collector.
这样做的妙处在于，只要你专注于艺术家，收藏家自然也会受益。
And what's great about that is that, you know, if you're focused on the artist, the collectors benefit.
而通常情况下，我觉得‘社群’意味着一群寄希望于未来获利的‘接盘侠’。
Whereas, typically, I feel like community means, these are a bunch of, bag holders that hope to make a profit down the line.
但说实话，这确实非常符合PFP的风格。
Which is very very very PFP to be fair.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
我有点好奇一件事。
I'm kind of curious about something.
比如，你有没有和一些艺术家朋友或收藏家聊过这个？他们理解你在做什么吗？
Like, have you spoken to some of the artist friends or collectors about it, and do they understand what you're building?
当然。
Sure.
我的意思是，这是个很好的问题，因为它与这个项目息息相关。
I mean, that's a great question because it resonates with the project.
让我重新投入到这个项目的原因是，你提到当大多数人听到NFT或PFP时，他们会说：哦，是的。
And what brought me to this project again is that you mentioned you mentioned NFTs or PFPs to most people, and they're like, oh, yeah.
他们想到的是几年前那个猴子骗局。
That was that monkey scam from a few years ago.
我以为那早就结束了。
I thought that was completely over.
对吧？
Right?
它符合它符合
It fits in it fits in with
我的骗局。
to my scam.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
所以它符合我的，你等等。
So it fits in with my You wait.
概念，这就是我喜欢它是一个加密骗局的原因。
Concept, and that's why I like the idea that it's a crypto scam.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
但你跟别人聊过这个吗？
But have you spoken to people about this?
我的意思是，我知道你的伴侣对这个项目非常反感，因为参与者全是白人男性。
I mean, I know your partner is really turned off by this project because they're all white men.
是的。
Is this Yeah.
我的意思是，她
I mean, she
她让我给她解释NFT，解释区块链，因为她要睡觉了。
asked me to she asked me to explain explain NFTs, explain the blockchain when she needs to go to sleep.
对。
Yeah.
因为作为一个整体，它非常抽象，就像你解释的那样。
Because because it is very conceptual as a as a whole just the way you explain it.
我完全明白你是怎么想到做这个项目的。
It's so clear to me how you arrived at making this project.
这不仅仅是一个头像项目。
It's not just a PFP project.
这几乎像是一场关于这个领域的全面研究，因为你之前更多地活跃在传统艺术界，然后开始尝试理解NFT领域，并发布了几个项目。
It's like a almost like a whole study on the space because you've been you've been working more in the traditional art world, and then you've been trying to understand the NFT space, and then you released a couple projects.
我认为这也是你了解收藏者和这个环境的一种方式。
And I think it was kind of a way for you also to understand your collectors and to understand the environment.
你觉得它会吸引到新的收藏者吗？
Do you think, like, it will reach new new collectors?
我知道Jamie曾跟一个说会铸造的人谈过。
I know Jamie's spoken to someone who who said who will mint.
你说的是Jeff Whitman，对吧？
You said Jeff Whitman.
对吧，Jamie？
Right, Jamie?
我那时是，我怎么
I was I How so did you
卖给他吗？
sell it to him?
你是怎么向他解释的？
How did you how did you explain it to him?
我们实际上请过杰夫·马吉德上过播客。
We had Jeff Majeed on on the pod actually.
我们该怎么定义杰夫？
What how do we define Jeff?
他是一个艺术影响者吗？
He's an art influencer?
什么？
What what?
我的意思是，他是一位收藏家，现在拥有了一个庞大的Instagram账号。
I mean, he's he's a collector who's become he's he's got a now got a big Instagram account.
他的账号是Matt Majidai，非常出色。
His account is Matt Majidai, and he's excellent.
他只是问我关于NFT的事，说是不是一切都还是关于投机？
And he was just asking me about NFTs saying, you know, is it all still all about speculation?
我说不，有一些非常棒的艺术家正在尝试参与进来。
And I was saying, no, there are some really great artists dabbling, getting involved.
我提到了你的名字，他对你在做这件事感到相当感兴趣。
And I mentioned your name and he was pretty interested by the fact that you're doing this.
我觉得Jeff拥有其中一个作品这个想法很棒。
I like the idea of Jeff owning one of these guys.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，看看这些头像，感觉特别诡异，因为它们看起来太真实了。
I mean, I look at these profile pictures and it's just so eerie because they look so real.
这部分让我觉得毛骨悚然。
This is the part that freaks me out.
它们并不是，我的意思是，
They are not I mean,
有点吧，但它们看起来也故意比之前显得没那么真实
kind of, but they also look they're they also, I think, deliberately look a bit less real than they did at
某个时刻。
one point.
它们两者都很真实，但近距离看又有点诡异，不过它们都没有
They're both, like, very real, but also, like, slightly uncanny when you get get up close, but none of them are
背景有点不对劲。
And the background is a bit off.
是的。
Yeah.
因为这都是我自家摸索出来的流程，所以它们都有一种独特的质感，即使从某种角度看它们像是AI生成的，也不会有那种一眼就能认出的、像ChatGeeVeeT生成的AI图像那种统一感。
And because it's all my, like, home cooked process, they all have that they all have, like, a unique texture that even though they, you know, they look AI on some level, they don't have that, like, immediate, like, you know, like, all the everything you any AI image that's rendered from ChatGeeVeeT looks like a ChatGeeVeeT AI image.
对吧？
Right?
任何由Gemini生成的AI图像，一眼就能看出是Gemini的作品。
And any AI image rendered by Gemini looks like one specifically from Gemini.
对吧？
Right?
所以这是我自己的、奇怪的、多步骤的加工过程。
And so this is my own, like, weird cooked up, you know, many step process.
它们有一种独特的、怪异的诡异感。
They have their own, like, weird kind of uncanny flavor.
它们看起来确实比一个月前更不真实了，背景也显得不连贯。
They definitely look less realistic than they did about a month ago, and the background looks disjointed.
它们看起来就像是刚被贴到背景上的。
They they look as if they've just been, like, stuck on the background.
那些是有非空白背景的。
They're the ones with a non blank background.
我觉得这是因为你想让它们看起来更有永恒感，所以觉得让它们稍微……是这样吗？
I think that was because you wanted them to look a bit more timeless and thought that by making them a bit is is that right?
那原因是
What was the
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得让它们稍微有点不自然比较好，你知道吗？当你放大看时，确实会感觉到这些图像其实是从不同部分PS拼接起来的，明白我的意思吗？
I think that having them be a little bit awkward, you know, when you zoom in, you do kind of get the sense that these are actually kind of like photoshopped from like kind of different pieces, you know what I mean?
它们被拼接融合得看起来非常自然，但总感觉哪里有点不对劲。
And they've been, you know, blended together to look very integrated, but it's just a little bit off.
我觉得这种感觉比那种看起来过于完美的东西要好得多。
I think that that feels a lot better than something that looks, you know, too perfect.
你知道的。
You know?
很长一段时间里，我特别执着于把鼻孔的毛孔画得完全正确。
And for a long time, I was, like, so obsessed with, like, getting the nose pores right.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what mean?
努力把每一根胡须都完美地渲染出来，但实际上这根本不是重点。
Getting, like, every stricken whisker rendered perfectly, and it's actually kinda not the not the point.
你知道吧？
You know?
它有自己的独特指纹。
There's it has its own, like, kind of unique, fingerprint.
我知道你一直在思考这些特征，你刚才就在谈这个。
I know you've been thinking a lot about the traits, and you were just talking about that.
他们会拥有多少个，塔博尔？
How many will they have, Tabor?
好的。
Okay.
简单来说，一共有100份工作。
So to put it simply, there's 100 jobs.
在这100份工作中，有10个类别。
Within these jobs, there's 10 classes.
对吧？
Right?
你有最顶级的类别，也就是最稀有的，一直往下到最底层的10个职业，也就是普通类。
You have your top class, which is your super rares, all the way down to the bottom class of 10 jobs, which is are your, commons.
所以每个职业通常至少有10到12套只属于该职业的服装。
So each job tends to have at least 10 to 12, outfits that are only in that job.
比如，一件粗花呢西装搭配条纹衬衫，或者别的什么，又或者一件破旧的黑色衬衫。
For example, like a, you know, tweed suit with a striped shirt and or whatever or, you know, a torn up black shirt.
此外，还有一些特质是多个职业共有的。
And then there's also traits that, are shared between jobs.
对吧？
Right?
讽刺的是，那个纺织工人穿的破旧黑衬衫，平面设计师也可能穿，因为这算时尚。
Like, ironically, the the same, like, tattered black shirt that the sweatshop worker wears, the graphic designer might also wear because it's fashion.
对吧？
Right?
所以职业之间会交叉传播某些特质，但也有一些特质只出现在特定职业中。
So there's this cry cross pollination of traits between jobs, but there's also some traits that only appear within specific jobs.
说到服装，纯粹从服装角度来说。
Speaking of clothing, strictly.
除此之外，还有这些人的基础基因。
Then on top of that, there's the, like, base genome of these guys.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
不管这些男人是从哪个实验室爬出来的，不管他们是用哪种黏液造出来的，总共就只有三种类型。
Like, whatever lab these these men have crawled out of, whatever vat of goo they're made from, there's just just like three of those.
对吧？
Right?
然后就是一些基本配饰。
Then then there's, like, your basic accessories.
对吧？
Right?
比如三十种眼镜、三十种发型，这些是更传统的NFT特征。
Like, thirty thirty glasses, 30 hairstyles, more traditional NFT traits.
然后每种工作都有100种不同的职位。
And then each each, job there's a 100 jobs.
每种工作还有五种可能的图像背景，这些都非常稀有。
Each job also has five potential image backgrounds, which are very rare.
想要获得与工作相关的图像背景，几率大约是百分之一。
It's like one in 10 to get on top of whatever chance it is for your job to get an image based background.
大多数背景都是标准的纯白色，对吧？就是为了营造出那种绝望的网格感。
Most of them are standardly thin white, right, to give you that real grid of despair feeling.
但那些拥有图像背景的，你知道，它们更能描述出整个设定的背景，我把很多心思花在了这些人身后能看到的东西上，以此来描绘整个Tabcorp宇宙。
But then the ones that have the image backgrounds, you know, it describes the context of this whole thing more, you know, and I put a lot of thought into what you can see behind these people as, you know, a way of describing this whole Tabcorp universe.
对吧？
Right?
如果你只筛选拥有图像背景的，你就能看到一个完整连贯的宇宙图景——比如Tabcorp首席快递员就站在Tabcorp首席卡车前。
If you're to filter only by pass image background, you really get a fleshed out view of a consistent universe where the, the Tabcorp prime delivery driver, you know, is posted in front of the Tabcorp prime truck.
但后来在另一个场景中，你又看到同一辆Tabcorp首席卡车，却被炸得稀烂，出现在付费煽动者身后。
But then later on in a different one, you see the same tab core prime truck is, like, bombed out behind the paid instigator.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
就像一个共享宇宙，到处都是。
There's, like, the shared universe is, like, all throughout.
所以，我说的是五百个，每个工作五个。
So, yeah, so what I'm saying is five times a 100.
总共有五百个图片背景，每个工作五个。
There's also 500 image backgrounds, five per job.
所以大多数都不会在 Mint 中出现吧？
So most of them were so so most of them won't won't come out in the in the Mint then?
嗯，这要看情况。
Oh, it kind of, like, depends.
比如，如果你想想那些最底层的工作。
Like, if you because, you know, if you think about the bottom tier of jobs.
对吧？
Right?
我明白了。
Like I see.
零级，你知道的，大概占整个收藏的16%。
Tier tier zero, you know, it's going to would be, like, you know, 16% of the collection.
二级也大概是16%。
Tier two is also probably about 16%.
一直到九级，只占整个收藏的1%。
Then you get all the way up to tier nine, only 1% of the entire collection.
所以，是的，这些背景图会比较稀有，但你在较低级别会更常见地看到它们，统计上是这样的。
So, yeah, the backgrounds will be or will be pretty rare, but you'll see more of them at the lower levels, you know, statistically.
这在一定程度上培育了Tabcorp和Tabcorp社区，我想。
This kind of seeds Tabcorp and the Tabcorp community, I guess.
所以这是一系列作品。
So this is a series
Table Ryback的画作。
of table Ryback artworks.
那么Tabcorp接下来会怎样呢？
And what is what is Tabcorp then gonna be going forwards?
如果我持有几件人类资源，这对我与Tabcorp的关系意味着什么？
And if I hold a few human resources, what does it mean in terms of my kind of relationship with Tabcorp?
这还有待确定。
It's, you know, to be determined.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我不想把这件事规划得太过详细。
Like, I specifically do not want to over road map this.
我想把它保持为一个实验性的艺术项目。
I wanna keep it as an experimental art project.
但可以说，制作NFT是我真正非常享受的事情，它带给我满足感和喜悦，丝毫不亚于我在画廊创作的传统艺术作品。
But, you know, I can say that making NFTs has been something that I really, really enjoy, and it's just as fulfilling and, you know, wonderful for me as making, you know, traditional fun artwork that I do in the galleries.
所以这不会停止，我所创作的一切都在相互积累、不断推进。
So it's not going to stop, and, everything I've been making is all kind of building upon each other.
所以
So
我们能否说，Tabcorp 将持续以 Tabcorp 品牌发布作品？
Can we can we say that Tabcorp is going to be releasing works on an ongoing basis under the Tabcorp brands?
是的
Yes.
当然
Absolutely.
而且，理想情况下，这将继续产生对所有人都有益的协同效应。
And, yeah, ideally, this continues to have synergistic effects that are beneficial for everybody.
我已经准备了一些惊喜，但同样，我并没有为这件事做详细规划。
And I already have some surprises in store, but again, like, I'm not I'm not road mapping this thing.
我也没有做出一百个承诺。
I'm not making a 100 promises.
好的
Okay.
你会持续制作Tabcorp的作品吗？
And will you be making the Tabcorp works on an ongoing basis?
你打算用Tabcorp的销售收益来支付其他艺术家，让他们创作未来的作品吗？
Are you gonna be using TAB Corp sales proceeds to to pay other artists to create future works?
没错。
Right.
所以，是的，正如我之前所说，当我谈到社区时，我所说的艺术家社区，说实话，在我的艺术生涯中，最大的推动力之一就是年轻时获得的少数几个小机会，那时我恰好处在对的时间和对的地点，等等。
So, yeah, ideally, like I was saying, when I was speaking about community and I speak about community of artists, you know, a big driving force in my artistic career or whatever has honestly been the influence of a handful of small opportunities that I received when I was younger, when I was at the right place at the right time, whatever.
我非常希望能为自己下一代的艺术家或任何创作者创造这样的机会。
And I would love to be able to create those opportunities myself for whoever the next generation of of artists or whatever creators may be.
所以我希望能做一些像资助、合作和委托年轻新兴艺术家这样的事情，类似这样的举措。
So I would love to be doing things like, you know, grants and collabs and commissions with younger upcoming artists, things like this.
所以当我提到社区时，我指的正是艺术家群体，而不是那些伪投资者。
And so when I say community, that's what I mean by community of artists instead of community of pseudo investors.
有点像OPEFN风格吧。
Kind of OPEFN style then.
所以人们创作OPEFN作品，并从中受益于OPEFN社区及其庞大的网络。
So p people create OPEFN works and benefit from that OPEFN community and the fact that there's a big network around it.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
网络。
Network.
这是个很好的参照点。
That's a great touchstone.
我确实没有杰克·巴彻那么懂区块链，但差不多。
I'm definitely a little bit less blockchain savvy than Jack Butcher, but similar.
所以Top Corp，也就是Tabor，是一家艺术公司，
So Top Corp then, Tabor, is an art company that
一个正在逐渐变成真实艺术公司的虚构艺术公司。
A fictional art company that's kind of becoming an actually real art company.
从虚构的角度看，没错，它是邪恶的，但现实中却是好的，宝贝。
It's fictionally, yeah, it's fictionally evil, but realistically good, baby.
恰恰相反。
The opposite.
这是反向的。
It's the inverse.
这是企业斜率的反面。
That's the inverse of corpo slope.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
为了让我们彻底跑题一秒，最让我烦心的一点是，当你想到电影和虚构作品时，反派角色本该是酷炫的。
To take to get us completely off track for one second, this is one of the the most annoying things to me is that, like, you know, when you think about movies and fiction and stuff, like, the bad guys are they're supposed to be cool.
我受够了现实世界里坏人一点都不酷这个说法。
I'm so sick of bad guys being uncool in the real world.
顺便说一句。
Side note.
但你实际上将会成为一个
But you're actually gonna be a
好人。
good guy.
哦，待定。
Oh, t TBD.
好吧。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
我们看看。
Let's see.
我们看看它会有多成功。
Let's see how successful it gets.
所有这些都可能产生影响。
All that might affect.
好的。
Okay.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
所以，根据你所说的，Tapcorp 看起来确实是一个真正的社群。
So Tapcorp, from what you're saying, it sounds like it's it's it's it's a it's a proper community.
它不是一个，如你所说，只是舞台式的社群。
It's not a it's not a, as you said, stage community.
它是一个为创作者打造的真正社群，Tapcord 将发布多位不同艺术家的作品，可能也包括你自己的。
It's a proper community for creatives, and Tapcord will be releasing artworks by a number of different artists, maybe including yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
你知道的。
You know?
但我不是说会有什么你登录进去的 Discord 之类的。
But I I'm I'm not saying there's gonna be, like, some discord that you log into or Yeah.
可能还是会更传统一点，比如我给某人发邮件，你知道我的意思吧？
Probably gonna be a little bit more traditional, like, I'm emailing somebody and we're you know what I mean?
做一些东西，然后我们分享给大家，等等。
Making a thing, and then we're gonna share with everybody and so on.
听起来你还在构想阶段。
And it sounds like you're still at idea stage.
你目前还在构建世界观阶段。
Like, you're still you're still in the world building right now.
这些只是一些可能有帮助、也可能没有帮助的可能性。
These are just possibilities that may or may not help happen.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
但感觉在这个项目中，你最关注的正是建立一个真正的社区网络。
But it feels like with this project, the number one thing that you're focusing on is just creating a a proper network of a real community.
看看它会发展到哪里，你懂我的意思吧？
Seeing where it goes, you know what I mean?
比如，PFP 类型项目的一个特点就是，通过这种规模的扩展，有可能吸引一定数量的关注者，从而产生网络效应。
Like, that is one of the PFP type of things is by doing an addition of this size, there is the potential to onboard a certain number of eyeballs that, you know, creates an that can have a network effect.
所以，是的，我很希望能基于这样的基础，按照我自己的愿景来构建。
So, yeah, I'd love to be able to build upon something like that, you know, with my own vision.
而且我认为，要让这个项目可持续，你将成为 Tabcorp 的首位首席执行官，而你能否持续投入，取决于未来 Tabcorp 的代币发行是否足够成功，以补偿你的时间。
And I guess for it to be sustainable, you're gonna be Tabcorp's first CEO, and you being able to do it on an ongoing basis is subject to future Tabcorp mints doing sufficiently well to what compensate you for your time, I guess.
所以，最好的情况是，前几次发行都大获成功。
So best case scenario, first few drops go incredibly well.
Tabcorp资金充裕，可以扩张，可以
Tabcorp is flushed with cash, can expand, can
开设其他地点。
Open other locations.
我的意思是，最好的情况是，推出创新、有创意、有趣的艺术作品。
I mean, yeah, best case scenario is, you know, putting out innovative, creative, interesting artwork.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
在某种程度上，扮演出版商、策展人这样的角色，诸如此类的事情。
On some level functioning maybe as, you know, a publisher, as a curator, you know, all this type of stuff.
有那么多美妙的艺术，有那么多伟大的创造力，而且总有新的技术可以探索。
There's so there's so much wonderful art and there's so much great creativity and, like, there's always new technology to play with and stuff.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就是去放大这些。
Just like, you know, amplifying that.
如果一切进展得非常顺利，你发现自己只想专注于创作，而不再操心经营Tabcorp，是否存在这样一个世界：一位爱好者放手让你接手，并说，好吧，你来把它打造成一个伟大的东西。
If it were to go really well and you find yourself wanting to actually just focus on making work and not worry about running TAB Corp, does a world exist where an enthusiast puts their hands off and you just say, okay, You know, you know, you take this and turn it into something great.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Sure.
确实存在某种可能性。
There there is there is some, possibility.
在某个平行宇宙中，这可以成为一个真正的公司，我不需要亲自领导，它专注于我们的创作。
There is some, universe wherein this could be, like, a real company that I don't need to helm that is focused on our production.
我的意思是，世界上已经有很多现成的参考模式了，比如当代一线艺术家的工作室模式，或者精品时装屋，甚至高端功能设计家具工作室等等。
You know, I mean, there's plenty of, reference points for this already existing out in the world, you know, like, whether it's, current, like, blue chip artist studio models or whether it's, you know, boutique fashion houses or even high end functional design furniture studios and whatnot.
你明白吗？
You know?
确实，有一个理想的情景，Tabcorp可以变成这样的东西。
There's, yeah, there's a blue sky scenario wherein Tabcorp becomes something like this.
你有关注过Pudgy Penguins是如何执行他们的路线图的吗？
Have you seen how Pudgy Penguins are executing on their roadmap?
我看到他们一周前宣布与曼城队合作，看起来挺有意思的。
I saw they announced a partnership with Man City a week or so ago that looks pretty interesting.
他们真的做得非常出色。
Like, they're really dazzled.
暂停一下。
Freeze.
他们正在积极地扩大影响力。
Really getting themselves out there.
什么？
Sorry?
我说Topgorp更像处于暂停状态，你知道的。
I said Topgorp is more freeze level, like, you know.
也许吧。
I maybe.
大概吧。
Probably.
是的。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我最近看到越来越多关于企鹅的东西，比如巴黎的街道、旅游纪念品摊位之类的。
Have been seeing a lot more of just penguin stuff in general, like, the streets of Paris, you know, the tourist kiosks.
现在甚至有那些非常接近Pudgy Penguins风格的企鹅，肚子上还写着‘巴黎’。
There's now, like, penguins that are very pudgy adjacent that say Paris on their belly.
太棒了。
Amazing.
你知道吗
You know
我的意思是？
I mean?
所以就是这样。
So it's yeah.
这只企鹅的形象已经广泛传播开来，即使人们并不知道这与胖企鹅有关。
The penguin this penguin thing has definitely entered the, the broader awareness even if people aren't knowing that this is a pudgy penguin type reference.
是的。
Yeah.
我妻子不断给我寄胖企鹅的礼物，却不知道这和加密货币有关。
My wife sends me Pudgy Penguin gifts constantly, not knowing that it's a a crypto thing.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
很可爱。
Cute.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你知道，他们确实创造了知识产权。
Because, you know, like, yeah, they kind of created IP.
对吧？
Right?
这就像那种自己定制Hello Kitty的有趣情况。
That's the that's the cool make your own Hello Kitty type of situation.
是的。
Like Yeah.
塞尔福里奇百货正在销售这些泰迪熊，这简直让人难以置信。
Selfridges is selling the the teddy bears, which is kind of unbelievable.
很棒的努力。
Great effort.
我本来想问你。
I was gonna ask you.
你是否担心你的PFP收藏缺乏多样性？
Are you worried at all about the lack of diversity in your PFP collection?
你是否担心别人会对此提出批评？
Are you worried that people are gonna have a go at you?
这问题挺敏感的。
It's pretty loaded.
这简直是故意为之的最糟糕时机。
I It's like the worst time to be intentionally
是的。
Yeah.
但这也是最好的时机，至少作为一个白人，尝试去正视我作为白人男性所面临的问题。
It's also the best time to at least try to take a stab at, like, as a white man addressing my issues with white men.
我可能还没找到完美的方式来做这件事，但这确实是我努力的一次尝试。
I may not have found the perfect way to do that, but this is an attempt on my part.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
而且，你知道的，是的，你会得到——那意味着什么？
And, you know, yeah, you get What does
那这到底是什么意思？
what does that mean then?
这个项目应该如何解读这一点？
How how should that be interpreted via the the project?
这个项目应该如何理解这一点？
How should that be interpreted by the project?
你是什么意思？
What do you mean?
我想知道，这个‘尝试’指的是什么？
I guess what is the stab?
你知道的。
You know?
我想问，你认为杰米在表达什么观点？
What comment are you making, I guess, Jamie is saying?
是说
Is that
你是在说这个吗？
what you're saying?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，你可以说出无数种说法。
I mean, there's a million things that you could say.
你知道的。
You know?
如今，邪恶的面孔非常平庸、乏味，就是普普通通。
Is that the, the the face of evil today is very banal and very bland and very just plain.
它却被包装成一家为你做着了不起事情的优秀科技公司。
And it's passed off as some some wonderful technology company that's doing something great for you.
有一些媒体人物在欺骗你。
There's some media figure that's lying to you.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
至少在美国，它们显然都拥有某种共同的肤色。
And they they all definitely share a certain skin tone in common, at least in America.
同样地，你知道，在这一大群平淡无奇的白人男性中，作为白人、作为白人男性，你越认同自己是这种平淡无奇的白人，你就越安全，离权力也越近。
Likewise, you know, within this mass of, of, like, bland white guys, it's simple for me to say that as a white person, as a white guy, the more you align yourself with as a bland white guy, the safer you are and the closer you are to power.
对吧？
Right?
如果你留着莫西干头或者穿了耳洞，对吧，你就偏离了这个权力源头一步。
If you if you have, like, a mohawk or you have a piercing, right, you you take one step you take you step you take one step away from that source of power.
对吧？
Right?
两者都是吗？
Both right?
这是父权制和白人至上主义的交汇点。
It's the intersection of patriarchy and white supremacy.
我不是说新纳粹分子。
I don't mean neo Nazis.
我是说，白人身份本身就是一个保护自身、确保白人持续掌权的权力体系。
I mean whiteness being a power system that protects itself and ensures that white people stay powerful.
对吧？
Right?
做一个平庸的白人男性是有安全感的。
And there's a safety in being a bland white guy.
对吧？
Right?
你穿过那条走廊或安全区。
You you you pass through that corridor or safety.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what mean?
你往右跨一步。
You take one step to the right.
你就成了同性恋。
You become gay.
你就陷入危险了。
You're in danger.
对吧？
Right?
你穿太多耳洞。
You get too many piercings.
你就危险了。
You're in danger.
所以我以一种温情的方式描绘了这种平庸的中间状态。
And so I portrayed this, like, this bland middle with affection.
这并不是一种充满仇恨的东西。
It's not like a a hateful thing.
我试图以幽默的方式捕捉它的复杂性，但这种状态确实有一种特质，是的，它有点像卑微的。
I'm trying to capture it in its complexity with a sense of humor, but also there is a quality of this that, yeah, it's kind of like abject.
老兄，这可不是什么可爱的企鹅。
Like, dude, you it's not a cute penguin.
对吧？
Right?
这就像是一个无聊的白人男性。
It's like it's a boring white guy.
你不一定真的想要这样，但这是一项概念艺术项目。
You don't necessarily want this, but it's it's a conceptual art project.
你懂的？
You know?
但这也分为两面。
But it's also two sides, though.
因为我觉得，没错，作为一个白人男性，确实伴随着权力，也许吧，也许。
Because I think, yes, being a white man, yes, comes with power, maybe, maybe.
但我认为，要成为这样的人其实也很复杂，我的意思是，我这么说可能会惹上麻烦，不过我现在不是白人，可能不会吧。
But I think it's also kind of tricky to be I mean, I I probably gonna get into trouble saying that maybe I won't because I'm not white right now.
但这也挺复杂的，因为人们往往一看到你是白人、男性，就默认你已经享有特权了。
But it's kind of also tricky because, you know, there's a lot of presumption that you were privileged already just because you're white and male.
你就是有特权，就这么简单。
You're privileged, full stop.
但这并不
And that's not
一定，依我看来，这是完全正确的。
necessarily It's one it's 100% true in my opinion.
是的。
Mhmm.
你至少始终享有一定程度的身体安全特权。
You you at least have the privilege of a certain level of bodily safety at all times.
你这话是什么意思？
How do you mean?
比如，你不会因为自己的肤色而在街上被袭击。
Like, you're not gonna walk down the street and be assaulted for the color of your skin.
也不会有人告诉你不能堕胎。
Not gonna be told you can't get an abortion.
对吧？
Right?
你更有可能获得贷款批准，更有可能找到工作，所有这些事情都是如此。
You're you're going to be more likely to get approved for a loan, more likely to get a job, all these types of things.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你有没有因为肤色而感到不安全过，莱拉？
Have you ever felt unsafe for the color of your skin, Layla?
这要看我在哪里。
Depends where I am.
我觉得这取决于我在哪里。
I think it depends where I am.
没有。
No.
我最近没有过，也从未经历过这种情况。
I haven't recently, and I never felt subject to it.
但我成长在一个非常非常以白人为主的社区，我确实很清楚自己看起来不一样，但我从未处于危险之中。
But I grew up in a very, very predominantly white neighborhood, and I was definitely very aware of looking different, but I was never in danger.
我并不总是感到受欢迎，但我从未处于危险之中。
I didn't always feel welcome, but I've never was never in danger.
但不管怎样，那是另一个完全不同的话题了。
But anyway, that's a whole separate separate conversation.
是的。
Yeah.
如果走这条路，最坏的情况会是什么？
What's what's the what's the worst the worst that can happen, going down this this route?
你担心别人会怎么解读吗？
Are you nervous about, how it might be interpreted?
不。
No.
不太担心。
Not really.
我觉得当我创作艺术时，有时我只是在画一幅漂亮的画面，但很多时候，我想表达一些带有一定锋芒的东西。
I think that when I make art, sometimes I'm making a pretty picture, but lots of times I wanna try to make something that expresses something that has some some level of bite to it.
我是想表达一些东西。
Like, I'm trying to express something here.
我可能做得不完全对，但哪怕只是尝试表达一些复杂的东西，你就是在冒险。
I may or may not be doing it exactly right, but by even by taking the chance to try to express something complex, you, you know, you take you're taking a chance.
对吧？
Right?
你是在创造一些不只是漂亮画面的东西。
You're making something that's not just a pretty picture.
作为艺术家，我不只想一直画些漂亮的画面。
And as an artist, I don't just wanna make pretty pictures all the time.
你知道的？
You know?
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以，是的，这里有风险，但我不确定。
So, yeah, there's a risk there, but I don't know.
我觉得我的初衷是正确的，而且我也为我所创造的东西感到自豪。
I think my my intentions are in the right place, and I'm also, you know, proud of what I've made.
我 somehow 找到了一种方法，让这个项目变得有趣。
I've I've somehow found a way to make this a fun project.
我的意思是，五十年后回头看，你拥有的是一个全是白人男性的10k PFP。
I mean, looking back in fifty years' time, you've got a 10 k PFP of all white guys.
这很有时代性。
That's topical.
而且在一个时代，就像你所说的，塔博尔，最强大的力量正是你所代表的那种人，是的。
Also in an era, I mean, just like you were saying, Tabor, where the most powerful forces are exactly the kind of people you are, yeah, representing.
他们是科技领域的、白人、男性。
They're tech, white, male.
你知道吗？
You know?
这反映了我们所处的现状，而且你知道，真正发生的是什么？
It is it is a reflection of where we are at and, you know, what is really happening?
你知道，主要权力掌握在这些人手中。
What is you know, the main powers is in in the hands of these people.
这是好事吗？
Is it a good thing?
这是坏事吗？
Is it a bad thing?
我的意思是，这是一种现实，他们看起来是关心环境的友善之人，但他们实际上掌握着整个世界的命运。
I mean, it is a reality, and they look like really friendly people who care about the environment, but they have basically a whole life in their hands.
这简直太疯狂了。
It's pretty insane.
令人兴奋。
Exciting.
是的。
Yes.
还有一个部分。
One more part.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，
I mean,
我的意思是，我得说这非常复杂。
mean, is my I've got to say it's very loaded.
这非常复杂。
It's very loaded.
这只是我对PFP的彻底解构，我想。
It's this is just my complete deconstruction of of what a PFP is, I guess.
是的。
Yeah.
我们能谈谈如何发布它吗？
Can we talk a little bit about how we are releasing it?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
就这样。
That's it.
这是属于我的一个，还是
Is this a me me one or are
你在桌上吗？
you on table?
我的意思是，我们并没有真正做出明确的决定。
I mean, we didn't really come to a firm decision.
我想我们可以对此坦诚一些。
I guess we can be open about that.
我们可以讨论一下这个。
We can discuss this.
所以这实际上是我们首次发布带有独唱的PFP。
So it's actually our first PFP release with solos.
我认为我们以前从未做过任何独唱或段落形式的PFP。
I don't think we've done any PFPs before on solos or in verse in general.
比如，我觉得从来没有人发布过。
Like, I don't think anybody has ever released.
从来没有这么接近过的。
Nothing close to this.
没错。
No.
这将是我们首个PFP，我们已经为此思考了很久。
This is our gonna be our first PFP, and we have been thinking about it a lot.
我一直非常希望有一天能实现，因为你说得对。
I've been really hoping that we'll do it one day because you're right.
这确实是文化中一个非常基础的部分，但我一直不太理解，因为我从未持有过PFP。
It is, like, such a fundamental part of the culture, and I could never quite understand it because I was never a PFP holder.
所以我很兴奋能通过这个成为其中一员。
So I'm excited to become one, with this.
或者一个投机者或赌徒。
Or a speculator or a gambler.
社区。
Community.
所有这些。
All of it.
所以我想成为所有这些角色。
So I wanna be all of those things.
酷。
Cool.
我会试着大致说说我们如何发布，因为会有很多即兴发挥。
Well, I'll have a I'll have a crack at how we're rolling it out very loosely because there's gonna be a lot of improvisation.
但这一周，我不确定这个什么时候会发布。
But this week, I'm not sure when this is gonna go out.
当人们听到这段话时，它可能已经发布了。
It may have gone out by the time people listen to this.
但1月22日星期四将是第一个申领窗口。
But Thursday, January 22 is gonna be the very first claim window.
因此，现有的收藏家将能够免费申领大约2000件作品。
So tables existing collectors will be able to claim up to 2,000 or so works for free.
在第一周，我们将向各个Web3 PFP社区开放。
In week one, we're then gonna be opening it up for various Web three PFP communities.
就在今天早些时候，我们对计划做了一个小小的VIP调整，Layla。
We're then gonna be doing a kind of VIP slight change in plan as of earlier today, Layla.
我们将逐个邀请朋友。
We're gonna be one by one inviting friends.
我觉得这是我向众多Ottworld朋友们推荐的好机会，来看看这些杰出的艺术家。
I feel this is the best opportunity I've had to say to so many Ottworld friends, have a look at this, great artists.
这是免费的。
It's free.
不过我想知道人们会怎么看待这个白人PFP。
I wonder how people will deal with this though, a white man PFP.
嗯，这挺有意思的。
Well, well, it's interesting.
我可能要
I may at
至少和人们聊聊。
least talk to people.
他们可能会告诉朋友。
They they might tell friends.
是的。
Yeah.
这是
This is
会很棒的。
gonna be great.
我的意思是，我只是想看看人们的反应。
I'm I mean, I just wanna get reactions out of people.
事实上，我会在问他们的时候截屏。
In fact, I'm gonna take screenshots of when I ask them.
难道你们一点背景都不知道吗？
Like, do you have no context?
我认为很多人不会，明，但我们会尽力在公关方面做点什么。
I think a lot of people won't, Minh, but we're gonna be doing what we can on the kind of PR side of things.
我们会联系每一个我们曾经接触过的记者。
We're gonna be reaching out to every journalist we've ever come across.
如果你认识的人，如果我们告诉他们这件事，而他们又在别处听说了，也许他们会参与进来。
If people that you know, if we tell people about it and then they hear about it elsewhere, maybe they will get involved.
所以我觉得，我们三个人一起大力推广，告诉朋友这件事，可能会产生很大影响。
So I think, I think the three of us going on a big push to just, like, tell friends that this is happening will probably count for a lot.
我还觉得，这是一个机会，可以让那些一直想入局NFT的人告诉他们的朋友。
I also think there's an opportunity to just get people telling their mates who they've wanted to get into NFTs for a while.
任何正在收听的人，一个月左右，我们将举办一次五百份的抽奖活动。
Anyone listening to this, in a month or so, we are gonna be doing a giveaway of five hundreds.
任何人都可以参与获得一份。
Anyone will be able to get one.
所以请告诉你的朋友们。
So please tell your friends.
我们希望让更多人接触数字艺术和NFT。
We wanna onboard more people to digital arts, NFTs.
我觉得这是一个很好的机会，即使你没有钱包，使用起来也非常简单。
I think I I think this is pretty good opportunity versus really easy to use if you don't have a wallet.
购买时不需要加密货币。
You don't need crypto to buy.
所以，是的，这就是免费方案。
So, yeah, that's kind of the free plan.
除此之外，我觉得我们得看看接下来会发生什么。
Beyond that, I think we need to see what happens.
我觉得我们需要即兴发挥。
I think we need to improvise.
我们曾试图制定一个计划，但我不确定这在现实中有多大意义，因为一个月后，我们的市场可能已经完全不一样了，更不用说其他因素了。
We tried putting a plan together, but I'm not sure how much sense it realistically makes because we also may be in a completely different market in a month's time apart from anything else.
我们有没有充分地让PFP社区参与进来？
Have we involved PFP communities properly?
我非常希望如此。
I would love to
现在就去联系他们吧。
hear reaching out now.
很难确切知道除了给他们访问权限之外，还能做些什么。
It's hard to know exactly how to beyond just giving them access.
如果有人有任何想法，请告诉我们。
If anyone's got any ideas, please let us know.
我觉得我们不需要删掉这部分。
I don't think we need to cut this out.
你觉得呢，莱拉？
What do you think, Leila?
我觉得有很多方面，我一直以来都对PFP特别着迷。
I feel like there's a lot I mean, I've been obsessed with PFPs for the longest time.
也不是着迷，只是想弄清楚它们的魅力在哪里，以及它们在热潮过后如何持续存在。
Not obsessed, but just trying to understand what the allure is in it and also how they live on post their hype.
好吧，撇开朋克不谈，只有当有一个积极的团队在推动时，它们才能真正活跃起来。
Well, think punks aside, they only really do if there's an active team
对。
Right.
需要努力推广，走向全球。
Working hard to get it out there and take a global.
没有压力表。
No pressure table.
另外，我在想，比如可爱的Punchy Penguin毛绒玩具，然后
Also, I'm thinking about, like, cute Punchy Penguin teddy bears and then
开枪打你。
Shoot you.
人力资源。
Human resources.
是的。
Yeah.
氛围很不一样。
It's pretty different vibe.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我觉得最好的方式就是即兴发挥，我很喜欢这种实验性。
I mean, I think the best way is to improvise, and I I love that it's experimental.
而且我喜欢它起源于那些坏了的打印机，你的作品本来就有叙事性，而这种叙事一直延续了下来。
And I love that it started from broken printers that came basically, there was a narrative with your work, and that just continued.
它变得越来越大，越来越大，越来越大。
It got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
这让我想到你看过《西纳多奇纽约》吗？
It made me think a lot about have you seen, Cynadochi New York?
嗯。
Mhmm.
你看过
Have you
吗？
seen it?
也许
And maybe
我看过《西纳多奇》。
I Cynadochi.
《西纳多奇》？
Cinendoki?
就是《西纳多奇》。
It is cinendoki.
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