暂别了 - VUE 232

大家好，欢迎来到《观点视角》。我是史蒂夫·爱德华兹，电台里的低音主持人和你们屏幕上看到的默剧表演者，但我依然是你们的主持人。今天和我一起的，就像过去经常那样，是埃里克·汉谢德先生。埃里克，你怎么样？

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Views on View. I am Steve Edwards, the host with the base for radio and the voice for being a mime as you can see on your screen, but I'm still your host. And with me today, as has frequently been true in the past, is mister Eric Handshed. How are doing, Eric?

嘿，嘿，史蒂夫。很高兴来到这里。很高兴来到这里。重要的一期节目。

Hey. Hey, Steve. Good to be here. Good to be here. Big episode.

重要的一期。重要的一期。就像某些前总统会说的，超级重要。

Big episode. Big episode. As certain former presidents would say, huge.

总之，这一期很重要。敬请期待

Anyway This this is a big one. Stay tuned with

公告。对于那些在Vue开发社区的你们来说，你们通过《与埃里克编程》和写关于Vue的书之类的认识埃里克。他已经不需要介绍了。事实上，有人打电话给我说，嘿，你能帮我拿到埃里克的签名吗？所以，

the announcement. So for those of you who have been in the Vue development community, you know Eric, from program with Eric and writing books on Vue and all that kind of stuff. Needs no introduction anymore. In fact, I have people calling me and saying, hey, can you get Eric's autograph for me? So anyway

我告诉史蒂夫，我太忙了，要发给我的公关人员。那是最好的方式。

And I I tell Steve, I'm too busy sending to my publicist. That is the best way.

公关人员。没错。

Publicist. That's right.

如果我的日程允许的话，也许六到十二个月后我会回复你。

And maybe I'll get back to you six to twelve months if my schedule allows it.

但一点绿色也能加快速度。对吧？

But a little green always speeds things up too. Right?

不。我我我确实收受贿赂。不。只是好吧。我的

No. I take the I I I do take bribes. No. Just Okay. My

不，我没有。好吧，AWS的埃里克老板们没听到这句话。今天我们没有任何嘉宾，原因是我们这期节目有点回顾性质——经过深思熟虑后，我决定暂停这个播客一段时间，具体原因我们会在节目过程中讨论。

No. I don't. Alright. Eric's bosses at AWS did not hear that. So today we have no guests, and the reason we have no guests is this is sort of a retrospective because I have made the decision after much thinking that I'm going to go on hiatus with this podcast for a few reasons that we will talk about throughout the program.

熟悉JavaScript播客的听众可能知道，我还主持另一个叫《JavaScript Jabber》的节目。这两个播客都属于Charles Max Wood创立的更大组织，以前叫devchat.tv，现在叫topenddevs。登录toppindevs.com就能看到我们所有的播客节目，涵盖Ruby、Angular、React、Elixir、.NET、DevInfluencers、Adventures in DevOps等主题，过去还做过自由职业、区块链等节目。同时做两个播客确实耗费时间，尤其还要兼顾全职工作和维护公众形象——虽然我除了这里基本没有其他公开形象。

Those of you who are familiar with some of the JavaScript podcasts that are around, another one that I do is JavaScript Jabber, which in both of these podcasts are part of a larger organization by Charles Max Wood and used to be called devchat.tv, now it's topenddevs. And if you go to toppindevs.com, you can see a list of all of the podcasts we do. They are on just anything from Ruby to Angular to React, elixir,.net, DevInfluencers, Adventures in DevOps, and we've had other ones in the past like Freelancers and Blockchain and Ruby and so on. So I've been doing two podcasts, and part of the reason is that just the time comes from doing both and trying to do a full time job and maintaining my public profile, which is very important. Actually, I have no public profile other than here.

最耗时间的可能是写老爸笑话。每期结尾我都会讲几个原创冷笑话，构思这些简直要命。我可没什么天赋，所有笑话都是自己绞尽脑汁想的。要是在网上看到雷同的，那准是别人抄袭我的。

Probably one of my biggest time sucks is writing all my dad jokes. For those of you who are familiar with the episode, I do some dad jokes at the end of each episode, and just coming up with those is crazy hard. I'm not as gifted. I write them all from scratch. If you've ever seen them anywhere on the Internet, it's because they got them for just saying.

总之时间是个问题，其次我们聊聊幕后制作。这个播客历来以嘉宾访谈为主，从Vue创始人尤雨溪前两期的做客，到Nuxt的Daniel Rowe和Guillaume，还有曾任职Nuxt的Debbie O'Brien等等。但越来越难邀请到嘉宾了——有时是得不到回复，有时光是联系沟通就要耗费大量时间。

But anyway, so that's one thing is the time, and two is we'll talk a little bit about how the sausage is made, so to speak. This in the past has always been a very guest driven podcast for the most part. We usually try to get a guest on to talk about something in particular, whether it's something in Vue, whether it's tooling or the components or testing or DevRel. We've had people from from Evan Yu, the creator of Vue in the first two episodes, to Daniel Rowe and Guillaume, from Nuxt, to Debbie O'Brien who used to be with Nuxt, any number of people. And the problem that I am running into more and more is just being able to get guests.

更糟的是，经常遇到嘉宾爽约的情况。约好时间却不出现，再联系也石沉大海。反复改期也没用，这类破事太多了。

Sometimes it is not hearing back from people, sometimes it's just time that's needed to be able to contact people and say, hey, do you want to come on? And there are people that don't get back to you, there are people that do. And then even more, a little more of the darker side of the sausage is many times we've had guests that have scheduled, and then they don't show up, and you don't hear from them again. And I'll reschedule and they don't. So just a lot of things.

做过播客的都懂。埃里克以前和Dylan Israel做的《自学成才否》基本就他俩主持，应该没怎么请嘉宾吧？

Anybody who's done a podcast knows this. Eric's done a podcast. He did his with Dylan Israel, but yours was pretty much just you two. I don't think you guys had guessed so much as it was just the two of you talking

对。我觉得任何播客都需要多个主持人，因为连主持人都难免缺席。

if Yeah. I remember I'd say any any podcast that you do, just like having multiple hosts is important because even hosts can't make it to all the time.

可不是嘛！

Oh, heck yeah.

回答你刚才的问题，《自学成才否》确实主要是我和Dylan两人，偶尔请过几个嘉宾。但光是协调我们俩的时间就够头疼了。

But to answer your question, yeah, it was just me and Dylan Israel. We had one called self taught or not. We had a couple of guests, but mostly just us two. And it was hard to even between the both of us to get us scheduled, make sure that we had time for both of us to make it to the podcast.

确实。我做《Views on Vue》和《JavaScript Jabber》四年了，现在特别佩服那些能稳定周更甚至周双更的大播客，比如Changelog系列、JS Party、Syntax、Shop Talk Show这些从不掉链子的节目。

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. This is I mean, after doing this, this is probably about four years that I've been doing views on Vue and JavaScript Jabber, and I have immense respect, so much respect for the big guys, the big well known podcast that can do it on a regular basis, weekly, twice weekly, whatever their schedule is, and not miss, and have people schedule. You look at the ones I listen to, all the Changelog ones, JS Party, Changelog, Syntax, probably we're all well known, Shop Talk Show.

这些人里大多数通常会有两个固定主持一直聊天。比如ShopTalk，就是他俩在聊，偶尔请个嘉宾。Syntax节目永远是他俩搭档，再单独做一期嘉宾访谈。Change log和JS Party虽然也有嘉宾，但能持续非常非常长时间保持这种状态真的很了不起。我自己做了四年两个播客，所以我觉得我还算合格。

A lot of these guys, for the most part they tend to have two people that are always there and they talk. Like ShopTalk, it's just the two of them talking and occasionally they'll have a guest. Syntax, it's always the two of them and then do a separate one with the guest, change log and JS party, know, while I have the guest, but the ability to do it consistently over a very, very, very long period of time is really amazing. And I've done it for four years, two podcasts, so I think I'm doing all right.

我简直无法想象，就像syntax.fm那样——他们现在每周要做两三个播客：一个嘉宾访谈，一到两期完整长度的节目，还有些短篇内容。光是协调这些工作确保每周都能如期发布不中断，这工作量简直疯狂。

I can't like, going to I'm just thinking about, like, syntax.fm. How how do they get two pod they do, like, two or three podcasts a week now. They have one podcast that's a guest podcast, and now they have one or two where they're like a full length episode, and then they have like smaller episodes. And I can I just imagine like the the the amount of work that takes in coordination to get that off the ground every single week and then not miss an episode? That's insane.

没错。他们聊过这个——顺便说这不是付费广告，我们只是基于了解在讨论——周一是他们所谓的'速食'环节，大概20分钟，10到20分钟不等。

Right. Yeah. They've talked about that. So they do, this isn't a paid advertisement, by the way, we're just talking out of them, talking out of our own knowledge here. But Monday is what they call a hasty where it's like twenty minutes, ten, fifteen, twenty minutes or so.

周三是完整的一小时节目。周五新增的'晚餐俱乐部'会邀请嘉宾来讨论话题。他们很幸运把播客做到被Century收购的规模，现在不用自己维护网站，也不用边工作边做播客，可以全力专注内容制作。如果能做到被收购还能保持创作自由，那真是再好不过了。

Wednesdays is a fuller length hour episode. And then Fridays, they added the supper club where they have a guest to come on and talk about things. Now, they're fortunate that they were able to build up their podcast to such an extent that they were basically bought by century. And so now they don't have to maintain their own sites and have their day jobs and do the podcast, they get a focus really big on just doing the podcast, which is awesome. If you can build it up to the point where someone wants to buy you and let you do your thing, more power to you.

这需要付出巨大努力。话说回来，我现在还在做JavaScript Jabber，每周和Dan Shapiro、AJ O'Neil以及Chuck一起录制，我们玩得很开心。这个节目曾在State of JS调查中被评为顶级JavaScript播客之一，排名确实靠前。做播客还有个特点就是主题相对垂直。

That a lot, that really takes a lot. So anyway, there's that. And like I said, I still have JavaScript Jabber that I get to do that we record every week with Dan Shapiro and AJ O'Neil and Chuck, and we have a great time. We've actually been ranked as one of the top JavaScript podcasts in the State of JS survey I've seen in the past, so we're up there for sure. Another thing with keeping a podcast is this is sort of a narrow subject matter.

视野很广，内容也很多，但很难找到其他如此专注于特定语言的播客。你会看到一些专门针对网络的播客，比如John Papa和Ward Bell，他们离开后曾上过这个播客，至少John上过，之后他们自立门户创办了一个只讲JavaScript和脚本的节目，后来改名为WebRush，因为这样更通用，能涵盖更多话题。DaaS Party也是类似，但同样，那是关于JavaScript的，并不绑定特定框架。这让情况变得稍微复杂些。虽然话题很多，但把所有内容拼凑起来确实增加了些难度。

View is big and there's a lot, but it's hard to find any other podcasts that are just on a specific language so much. You'll get web specific ones like John Papa and Ward Bell, when they left, they were on this podcast, or at least John was, and they left and started one that was just JavaScript and script, and then they renamed it to WebRush because it's more generic, allows them to cover more topics. DaaS Party does it, but again, that's JavaScript, it's not tied to a specific framework. That makes it a little more difficult. Granted there's a lot of topic out there, but you sort of put everything together and it just makes it a little more difficult.

现在我要为我们辩护一下，我已经忘记我们做到哪了，大概是第400多期吧。哦不对，抱歉，是230期。所以我们四年间做了230期节目，积累了很多优质内容。

Now in our defense, I've already forgotten where we're at, we're at 400 something I think in terms of episodes. Or no, I'm sorry, two thirty. So we've done two thirty episodes over four years and a lot of good content.

超过五年了，我们第一期是在2018年3月对吧？算下来差不多五年了。

Over five years, like 2018 was our first one, March 2018, right? I guess around five years.

没错。说到这里，我想回顾下历史，因为除了本来就打算邀请Eric之外，另一个原因是他从一开始就在——远早于我的加入。最初是他和一个叫Chris Fritz的人，我在这之前就通过他的Nuxt样板代码库认识他了。如果你当时要做企业级Nuxt项目，那个样板库就是为此准备的。总之，如果你要开发大型企业级网站，这个样板库能提供许多预先配置好的功能。

Right. So with that, I'd sort of like to we'll go back and talk about the history, just because part of the reason I wanted to have Eric on other than I'd to have him on anyway, is that he was here from the very beginning long before I ever came around. So it was at the initial, there was him and a guy named Chris Fritz, who did, he was known, I knew him before this started from his Nuxt boilerplate repo. That was a repo that if you were using Nuxt Enterprise boilerplate, think is what it was. Anyway, if you were having an enterprise type site, very large, very big, this was a boilerplate that you could download and have a lot of stuff pre configured for you.

相当酷。还有现在在View Mastery的Ben Hong，我其实和他合作过Mastery的Next.js课程。对了，Diddy最初也在吗？是Diddy SSS吗？

Was pretty cool. And then Ben Hong, who is now at View Mastery, I've actually worked with him on the next course that I did for Mastery. And I think Diddy, was Diddy on in the beginning? Diddy SSS?

对，她后来加入了，我不记得是哪一集了，但感觉大概是在第二三十集的时候她出现了。

Yeah, she came on, I can't remember what episode, but it feels like maybe twenty, thirty episodes in she was she was on.

没错。

Right.

事情是这样的，第一集是由Joe Eames主持的。他在Angular领域很有影响力。

It sort of went so, like, the first episode, it was Joe Eames that did that hosted. And he he's big in the Angular world.

非常有名。

Very big.

他拥有thinkster.io，还在NG Conf上做些事情。其实有个鲜为人知的事实，我当时也参与了那集录制，但那时我有全职工作，临时有个会议什么的记不清了。所以我刚开始参与第一集，听了首位嘉宾Evan Yu的发言后，大约五分钟后我就退出了。

He has thinkster dot I o, and he does some stuff at NG Conf. And actually, little known fact, I was on that episode, but what happened was I was working a full time job at the time, and I had, like, some sort of meeting. I can't remember. And so I was I started on that episode, the first episode, and then I heard Evan Yu speak because that was the first guest in the first episode. And then I dropped off, like, five minutes later.

严格来说，我实际发言的第一集是第二集，那集讲的是Vue入门，非常有趣。我觉得至今仍很有价值。那期是我、Chuck和Joe，我们讨论了学习Vue的最佳方式。

So the first episode I was technically, on and actually spoke was the second episode. And and that one was getting started with Vue, and that was a really fun episode. I think it's still good to this day. And that was me, Chuck, and Joe. And we just talked about, like, what's the best way to get into Vue.

Cher也在场，Cher Stewart。我们主要探讨了入门Vue的最佳途径，各自分享了接触Vue的经历。

Js? And and and Cher was on there too. Cher Cher Stewart. And we just talked about, like, what's the best what's the best way to get into to Vue. We all kinda gave our little bit of histories of Vue.

那也是个很有趣的开端。我很喜欢这期节目。坦白说，Steve前几天打电话跟我说：'我们要结束Views on View了，希望你能参与最后一期。'我当然立刻答应了。

So that that was a fun episode to start on too. So I really like this episode. Just to open up the kimono a little bit, Steve called me a couple days ago and just said, hey. This is what's happening. We're wrapping up views on view.

其实我一直告诉Steve我想更定期地担任联合主持，但由于工作原因很难全职主持，偶尔联合主持是我的目标。很遗憾这个节目要结束了，但很感激他能让我参与最终回。

Love to have you on the last episode. Of course, I said, absolutely. I'll be on. In fact, I've been telling Steve I'd love to be like a cohost for this show more regularly. Fortunately, because of my job, I can't it's a little little bit hard to do like a full time hosting gig, but being able to cohost occasionally was my goal and and sad to see this this go.

我觉得这是个完美的收尾——我参与了最初两集，现在又参与最终集。不过要说明这只是暂停，虽然不确定，但未来如果有需求，我们可能会再做新内容。谁知道呢？

But I I he was graceful enough to graciously allowed me to come on this last episode. And I think it's a good book ending because I was on the first and second episode, and I'll be on this now last episode. But I also I'll I'll caveat this to say that this is a hiatus. We don't it's indefinite, but I could see maybe one day if there was a big push that we might do another episode in the future. So you never know.

我猜这就是你的想法吧，史蒂夫？

Guess that's what do you think about that, Steve?

嗯，就像我之前提到的，如果有人想让我们发起GoFundMe或Patreon众筹，你知道的，我总是可以被激励回来以那种方式做事。是的，我们看看情况吧。有时候你离开某些事情后会想念它们，就像，哎呀，我真希望能回去再做一次。但我们会看到的，不过查克允许我做的是——抱歉我不记得是否提过——如果我有特别想聊的Vue相关内容，我可以带他们上《JavaScript Jabber》节目。我觉得那个节目受众更广。

Well, like I was mentioning beforehand, if somebody wanted to make us say a GoFundMe or Patreon push, you know, I could always be incentivized, you know, to come back and do things that way. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Sometimes you leave things and you miss them, it's like, Dang, I wish I could go back and do that. But we'll see, but what Chuck has allowed me to do, and sorry I can't remember if I mentioned this, is that if I have U specific stuff that I want to talk about, then I can bring them on JavaScript Jabber. I think that has a bigger audience.

不确定为什么。好吧，我两边都在，所以这就解释了。但说真的，我可以邀请嘉宾来，我们可以讨论Vue相关的内容等等。在这方面我也有灵活性。所以这并不意味着这个节目会消失，总之，这就是未来的计划。

Not sure why. Well, I'm on both, so that explains it. But seriously, so I can bring on guests in and we can cover View stuff and whatever. I have the flexibility there to do that as well. So it's not like this is going to go away, but anyway, that's the plan going forward.

是啊是啊，当然。让我也回到你刚才说的关于不同主持人的话题。我们经历了很多...

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Let me also kinda going back to what you're saying about the different hosts. We've gone through

很多。

A lot.

这些年来这个播客换过很多不同的主持人。就像我说的，最初是Jojims和我，还有查克，但大概到第四集时克里斯·弗里茨加入了。克里斯·弗里茨超棒，他实际上为我的书《Vue.js实战》写了序言。

A lot of different hosts on this podcast through the years. Like, like I said, it started off with Jojims and me, Chuck, but it then moved on to probably by episode four. Chris Fritz came on. Chris Fritz is awesome. He actually wrote wrote the forward for my book, my View JS in Action book.

哦对了，他写得非常优雅...另一个优雅...优雅的人？我从未见过他，只是直接发邮件问他说，嘿。

Oh, that's right. And he wrote he was very grace graceful, another grace gracious Gracious? Gracious person. I had never met him. I just, like, cold emailed him and said, hey.

我正在写一本关于Vue.js的书，你愿意为它写序吗？他答应了，并且写了篇精彩的序言。我真的很高兴他这么做了。

I'm writing a book on on Vue. Js. Would you be willing to write the forward for it? He said yes, and he wrote this, like, amazing forward for it. And, I'm really happy he did that.

后来约翰·帕帕也上过播客。有段时间就我、克里斯·弗里茨和...我发现和克里斯合作前20集时，他认识好多人。即便到现在可能还是，但那时他认识所有核心贡献者，他基本上算是Vue文档的核心贡献者。

And so it was and even John Papa came on on the podcast. So for a while, it was just me, Chris Fritz. One thing I found working with Chris on this podcast in the first, like, 20 episodes was Chris knows so many people. I I probably still to this day, but back then, he knew all the core contributor. He was, like, basically a core contributor for Vue on the docs.

所以他认识所有Vue核心成员。他邀请了超厉害的开发者迪维亚·萨斯·达伦，她当了一段时间联合主持人。他和我们刚提到的Vue Mastery的本·洪是朋友，也邀请了他。大概在20到30集之间，本经常来当嘉宾，可能其实是30集之后。

So he knew all the the core all the Vue people. So he brought on Divya Sasa Darron, which is amazing developer, and and she became a cohost for a while. He was friends with Ben Hong, with we just mentioned earlier from View Mastery, and he brought him on. And then pretty much Ben I think between, like, episode 20 to 30, Ben was a regular guest. Maybe it's actually after 30.

后来我们基本保持着轮换模式，克里斯几乎参与了最初四五十期的每一期节目。但之后他变得非常忙碌，本·洪就真正接手了主持工作。长期收听《Views on Vue》的听众可能记得有一期——开录前我还试图找过这集——是我独自主持的，那可能是节目史上最糟糕的一集。如果有人找到了，请推特@ericch告诉我。我只记得当时非常紧张，表现得像机器人一样僵硬。

And now we kept on kinda rotating between some Chris was at every single pretty much every single episode for the first I I think almost, like, the first forty or 50. But then after a while, he became really busy, and then Ben really took over the hosting duties. And for those of you who have listened to views on Vue for a long time, there is an episode I don't I can I was trying to find it before we started where I hosted by myself, and it was probably the worst episode of views on view? So if anybody finds it, tweet me at eric c h. I just remember being very nervous and being very robotic.

还有一期只有我和本·洪，当时我在采访嘉宾。本突然问我是否想接手主持，我确信自己搞砸了——因为紧张和畏惧让我表现失常。那段经历很有意思，不过从那以后，我在镜头前和播客中变得越来越自如，还从史蒂夫身上学到很多，他同时主持多档播客都游刃有余。

And then there's one episode that it's just me and Ben Hong, and I'm interviewing somebody. And I and Ben's like, do you wanna take over the hosting duties? And I just I'm pretty sure I did terrible at it because I was very nervous and scared of doing it. So that that was interesting time. I think since then, I've gotten much better and more comfortable on camera and in podcasts and watching people like Steve, who does an amazing job at hosting multiple podcasts.

但真正适应确实花了不少时间。在最初七八十期里，克里斯和本扛起了这档节目，他们邀请了阿里·克拉克等优秀开发者，这些聪明人帮助支撑了将近百期节目。

But it it took me a while to to to get that comfortable. But most of the time, Chris and Ben, they just did an amazing job of just carrying this podcast, especially for the first, seventy, eighty episodes. They brought in Ari Clark and and just amazing developers, really smart few people to come in and really help run this episode for almost a 100 episodes.

没错，差不多一百期。回顾往事——可能我提过——在第91期我的首秀中，我们介绍了新阵容。原班人马因各种与你无关的原因离开后自立门户。我当时通过查克的节目圈逐渐混熟脸，早年还常听《JavaScript Jabber》和约翰·帕帕主持的《Adventures in Angular》。后来迷上Vue时，这档播客刚开播让我兴奋不已。查克当时有档很酷的《My JavaScript Story》节目（现已停更）

Yeah, it was just about 100, so we were looking back, and my backstory, I think I've told this before, if you go back to episode 91, which was the first episode where I came on, we sort of introduced in the panel. The previous panel had left for various reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with you, and had started their own podcast. And so I had gotten into Chuck's wheelhouse, shall we say, made myself known because I would listen to JavaScript, ever even Adventures in Angular back in the day when John Papa was on there and Joe Eames and Ward Bell. And then I had gotten into Vue and I was so psyched when he saw this podcast start out. And one of the things that Chuck was doing was sort of a cool podcast called My JavaScript Story, and it hasn't been around for a while.

他坚持做了一段时间，最初形式是邀请往期嘉宾讲述如何接触JavaScript、职业经历等。后来开放报名渠道时，我立刻抓住机会——第74期记录了我从BB6时代起步，历经PHP/MySQL、Drupal世界，最终通过Angular进入JS领域的历程。正是通过这期节目，我给他们发邮件表达了对专题讨论环节的热爱，才逐渐熟络起来。

He did it for a while, and when he started out, it was just a way, sort of an interview, Tell me about your story, how you got into JavaScript, what you do, that kind of stuff. And he would usually do guests, previous guests that he'd had on JavaScript Jabber. Well then he opened it up, and he said, Hey, if you're a developer and you want to come on and tell me about your story, send me a note through however I contacted him, I don't remember, if you want to talk about it, and I was like, Boom, okay, yeah, I want to do this. So episode 74 of my JavaScript story is me talking about my humble beginnings back in the days of BB6 and then PHP and MySQL and through the Drupal world and into JavaScript, through Angular and so on. So I got to know them that way, I'd emailed them and said, Hey, I love these panels, these episodes.

我之前做过一档播客，那是多年前为一家名为Acquia的公司录制的，这家公司由Drupal创始人Dris Boitart创立，是总部位于波士顿的主要Drupal托管服务商。我很享受那次经历，觉得很有趣。后来我说，嘿，我之前做过这个，我想再试一次。没过多久，他们就发邮件给我说，好吧，你加入《Views on View》吧。结果我刚把讨论组搞丢了。

I've done a podcast before, which I had done years ago for a company called Acquia, which was founded by the Drupal founder Dris Boitart, and they're a main Drupal hosting company based out of Boston. And I love doing that, and that was fun. And I said, Hey, I've done this before, I'd like to do it again. Well, not too long after that, emailed me and said, Alright, you're on views on view. I just lost the panel.

我说，哦，好吧。然后他大概同时期又让我上了《JavaScript Jabber》。我回去查了下，我录制的第一期节目是和一位叫Paige Meadringhouse的女士合作的，是《JavaScript Jabber》第398期。当时她在讨论Node.js的最新版本（那时是12版），而我对Node一窍不通，也不认识她，完全是个新人。实际上那期是我和AJ一起上的。

I said, Oh, okay. And then he had me on, I think JavaScript Jabber right about the same time. And so I went back and looked, the very first episode I recorded was with a gal named Paige Meadringhouse, JavaScript Jabber three ninety eight. And she was talking about the latest release of Node at the time, which was version 12, and I knew nothing about Node, and didn't know who she was, I was new to it. It is actually me and AJ on there, think.

幸运的是，她提前给了我一些要讨论的要点笔记，我就照着这些内容和她交流，后来逐渐熟悉起来。之后我从第91期开始正式主持《Views on Vue》。其实在那之前，第91期只有我和Lindsay。Lindsay担任了一段时间的主讲嘉宾，我和她搭档。但在正式介绍之前，我已经参与过几期节目，当时还有些嘉宾，比如Dean——我已经忘记他全名了——他是新西兰人，还有另外几位。

So fortunately, she had given me some notes ahead of time about the talking points she wanted to cover, and so I just walked through those and we talked, and then I got more familiar. And then I started hosting views on Vue back on episode 91. Actually before that, 91 was just me and then Lindsay. Lindsay was the main panelist for a while and I was with Lindsay. But before that I had done a few episodes before that sort of official introduction, and there were some guests, Dean, I already forgot his name, who was from New Zealand and a couple of guys.

从那时起，我基本就常驻《Views on View》了。比如我们最早认识Lindsay时，还认识了Austin Gill，那时他住在圣地亚哥，他开发了一个叫ViewTensils的库，算是无主题的Headless组件类型，可以直接嵌入使用然后自定义样式，类似现在的Tailwind Headless UI等工具。我们很喜欢他，合作得很愉快，就邀请他成为常驻嘉宾。他参与了一段时间后搬来了波特兰，现在确实住在本地。夏天我还在一场棒球赛偶遇过他。后来他决定和朋友开自己的播客《The Function Call》，不确定是否还在更新，但我知道他还在这个圈子。

And since then, I have pretty much been mainstay through Views on View because we had Lindsay and I first met, for instance, we met Austin, Austin Gill, about the time he was living in San Diego, and he had created a library called ViewTensils, which is sort of a headless component type of thing, unthemed, so you could drop them in and then you can make them look a lot, like Tailwinds, Headless UI, and there's a lot of other tools that are out there now that are headless. We liked him and had so much fun with him that we said, Hey, do want to come on as a panelist? And he did for a while, then he moved up here to Portland. He actually lives here in Portland now, and I actually ran into him over the summer at a baseball game. He hit on for a while, well then he decided to start his own podcast, The Function Call, with a buddy of his, and I'm not sure if he's still doing it, but I know he's around.

现在他在Akamai担任开发者关系专员，做得风生水起。我经常在公共场合见到他，还看到他的博客文章登上过Hacker News的榜首。

Now he's a DevRel at Akamai, doing real well there. I see him out in public quite a bit. I've seen some of his blog posts on Hacker News up near the top.

超级超级聪明的人。我今年刚在一次会议上遇到他。是的，他明白这一点。他是个才华横溢的家伙。实际上我经常看他的推特串文，他总能拆解问题，确实厉害。

Super super smart guy. I met him at a conference just just this year. And, yeah, he knows this. He brilliant guy. He he he actually I see his Twitter threads, and he just breaks down things and yeah.

绝对是顶尖开发者。没错。和他相处非常愉快。

Definitely superb developer. Yeah. He was a lot of fun.

我们还有其他我想

We've had other I wanna

回溯一下。在深入未来话题前，我想稍微往回倒一点。好的。我要特别指出，我们这个播客的嘉宾和主持中，有人后来创建了自己的播客。《Views on Vue》是我们的节目，但《Enjoy the Vue》就像是个超棒的衍生作品。

go back. Before we go too far in the future, I kinda wanna go back a second. K. I will I will call out, we've had guests and hosts on this podcast that have created their own podcasts. Views on Vue is our podcast, but Enjoy the Vue was, like, an amazing, like, spin off.

我我我喜欢称它为衍生播客。当然他们在做自己的内容，但他们创建了这个超酷的关于Vue.js的播客《Enjoy the Vue》。我记得他们去年停更了。但如果你们想怀旧，那些节目依然精彩，访谈内容也很棒。

I I I I like to call it spin off podcast. Obviously, they're doing their own thing, but they created this really cool podcast called Enjoy the Vue, and it's all about Vue. Js. They went I think they they ended up stopping the podcast last year. But if you guys wanna go kind of like nostalgia, there's still great episodes, still great interviews with them.

我我会推荐大家去看看《Enjoy the Vue》。最初成员有Ben Hong、Chris Fritz和Ari Clark。但到最后阶段，他们换了新阵容，包括...让我看看，我可能会说错名字，正在看他们的网站。

I I would check that out and enjoy the view. And and they had first, there was Ben Hong and and Chris Fritz and Ari Clark. But I think by the end, they had kind of a new panel of people, including, let me see here. I'm gonna get names wrong. I'm looking at their website.

不过

But

是enjoy.io对吧？

It's enjoy.io. Right?

对，enjoytheview.io。Alex Rivera，我前几天刚在会议上认识他。又一位非常非常优秀的Vue开发者，人也很nice，还有Tessa。

Yep. Enjoy the view.io. Alex Rivera. I just met him at a conference the other day. And just another really, really strong Vue developer, nice guy, Tessa as well.

是的，如果你们也想看看，我想特别提一下他们，因为他们做得非常非常出色。

Yeah, if you guys want to check that out too, I just want to give a shout out to those guys because they they did a great great job too.

是的。根据最后一集第93集来看，他们似乎在2022年6月就停更了。所以总共做了93集。不过话说回来，回到主持人话题，我们有过Authusn的Lindsay，还有一位叫Raymond Camden的短暂合作过。还有个叫Simon的家伙，我记得他在尼日利亚，我们尝试邀请过几次，但因为时差或网络问题实在难以协调，最终他只参与了几期节目。

Yeah. Looks like they went on hiatus as of June 2022, according to the last episode episode 93. So they got 93 episodes. But anyway, so back to host, we've had Lindsay at Authusn, we had a guy named Raymond Camden for a little bit. There's a guy, Simon, I think he was in Nigeria, that we tried to have on a couple of times, but it was a timing or connection issues that it was really difficult and ended up you only did a few episodes.

但最长期搭档是Lindsay和我。趁我回忆不同嘉宾时——我们还邀请过Drew Baker。Drew特别有趣，是个澳大利亚人。他在洛杉矶经营一家叫Funkhouse的机构，名字应该是取自他德国联合创始人的姓氏FUNKHAUS。他们为好莱坞圈子的客户做过些很炫的网站，我记得是给经纪公司、艺人公司这类机构做的。

But it was Lindsay and I for the longest time, and then while I'm brain farting different people, I've had stuff like Drew Baker. Drew was a ton of fun. He's an Aussie. He runs an agency in Los Angeles, Funkhouse, and I think it was named after his co founder. F U N K H A U S had a German spelling, but they did some really slick websites for Hollywood type people, I think for agencies, talent agencies or stuff like that.

和他合作非常愉快，但那家伙是个环球旅行家。一会儿在澳大利亚，一会儿在欧洲定居，然后又回美国。前段时间还有过Cody，但他没能长期参与，原因大概和我退出差不多——他说自己太忙了，要专注其他事情。

He was a ton of fun to have on, but that dude's a world traveler. He's in Australia, and then he's living in Europe, and then he's back here. But he was a lot of fun. And then had Cody a little while ago, he wasn't able to be on for very long for, I guess, similar reasons for me dropping. He just said busier, more things to focus on.

这很遗憾，因为我喜欢他带来的优质嘉宾。最近我邀请了David Neal（听过前两三期的朋友知道这位

So that was unfortunate because I liked him because he brought in some really good guests too. Recently I had David Neal, for those of you who listened to the past two or three episodes, David, he goes by Reverend Geek. And I had initially heard of him on the WebRush podcast with John Papa and those guys, and what had brought him to their attention, what brought him to my attention was how he learned to draw to make his technical presentations much more engaging at technical conferences where he's talking about JavaScript type stuff. And if you listen to a story about all the hours he spent where he's like, at the beginning, he was like me and that I have trouble drawing a stick figure. And he was the same way, but he learned that following people and practicing and practicing.

他现在确实形成了独特风格。David最酷的是他痴迷冷笑话，最近还出了本《335天冷笑话》的书。故事是他开始画画时说：'既然喜欢冷笑话，不如每天画一幅，先坚持几周'——结果他坚持了整整一年并成书。所以我邀请了他上节目。

He definitely has a unique style now. And what's really cool about David is he also appreciates dad jokes so much that he published a book recently of three three five days of dad jokes. And the story was that he just started drawing and he said, You know what, I like dad jokes, I'm going to start illustrating one a day and I'm going to do it for a couple weeks. And he eventually did it for a whole year and and created his book. So I've had him come on.

大白胡子老哥对吧？没错，简直像ZZ Top乐队成员，毫不夸张。

Big white beard guy. Right? Yeah. I think ZZ Top. No exaggeration.

真不是夸张。YouTube上我们那期直播里，他戴着老式啤酒杯眼镜，性格完全是我的反面——可能是最安静温和的人，正好和我形成绝妙反差。

That is not an exaggeration. If you look at the streams on YouTube of my my episodes with him, he's got the big old beer glasses, and he's my opposite. He's probably the opposite of me and Eric. He is one of the quietest, mellowest people, so we made a great made a great offset for me.

我还没听那期节目，但在VueConf见过他。就像你说的，Zach特别温和，人非常好。我向他请教过些建议...

I haven't listened to the episode, but I did meet him at VueConf. And Zach, like you said, like, very very mellow. He was very great. He was very nice. He told me, I asked him some tips.

他做开发者布道师很多年了，所以我问了些相关技巧。真是个超棒的人。

He's been a developer advocate forever. So I asked him some like tips for developer advocacy and he Awesome. Awesome guy.

确实很酷。他现在主业是在初创公司做数据科学，处理那些让我看着就犯困的海量数据集。不过业余还在搞Vue和JavaScript——虽然这些年他一直是JavaScript专家。

Yeah. Yeah. Really, really cool. He used to do his his job main job now is he's working at a startup doing data science stuff, you know, big, large sets of data and data science and stuff that would make me go to sleep I think. But and he still does Vue and JavaScript outside of that, but for years he was a JavaScript guy.

所以他很喜欢这样，还在继续他的绘画和演示之类的事情，但他真是个很棒的人。他对此有点沮丧，因为他刚加入而且非常认真，就像他一样。他会说，嘿，我们今天有一期节目，我们要聊些什么之类的话。真是个很棒的人，很有趣。所以，关于我们历史上嘉宾小组的事情就是这样，只是一些非常有见识的人，我总是开玩笑说，一旦嘉宾来过这里，他们就会出名，更出名，这绝对是个玩笑。

So he's he's liking that and still doing his drawing and and presentations and stuff like that, but a real great guy. He was sort of bummed about this just because he'd just come on and he was real conscientious like him. Was, hey, we got an episode today and what are we gonna talk about and that kind of stuff. Real great guy, a lot of fun. So yeah, that's it for the panelist side of things in our history with panelists, just some very knowledgeable people that I always joke that when the guests come on that once they've been on here, then they're going to be famous, much more famous, and it's definitely a joke.

但是，你知道，看到人们离开这里，去Vue社区做其他事情，这很有趣。当然。

But it's it's been fun to, you know, see where people have left here and and gone off and and done other things in in the Vue community. Sure.

我要让你为难了，Steve。也许你会走这条路，但我想我知道一个。首先，在过去200期节目中，你最喜欢的嘉宾是谁，如果可以选一个的话？还有，你最喜欢的过去200期节目中的哪一期？

I'm a put you on the spot here, Steve. Maybe you're gonna go down this road, but is there any I think I I know one. First, what's what has been your favorite guest, if you can pick one, over the last 200 episodes? And what's your favorite episode over the last, you know, 200 that you've been on?

实际上，这正是我要说的，好吧，我们聊了嘉宾小组，现在聊聊嘉宾吧。你知道，我老板在我担任招聘职位时告诉我，我喜欢雇佣比我聪明的人，这并不难。我们邀请的嘉宾也是如此。我喜欢找那些真正懂行的人，然后我可以采访和提问。有些嘉宾真的很棒。

Actually, that's exactly where I was going was, okay, we've talked about the panelists, let's talk about the guests. You know, one of the things my boss told me when I've been a hiring person in positions, I like to hire people that are smarter than me, which isn't difficult. The same is true with the guests that we have on. I like to get people that really know their stuff and then I can interview and ask questions about. Some of the guests I've had on have been just amazing.

如果你回顾一下，我遇到了一些非常酷的人，至今还保持联系，Eric就是其中之一。可能更常见的两位嘉宾来自Nuxt世界，信不信由你。一位是Debbie O'Brien，另一位是Daniel Rowe。Debbie现在在微软，负责Playwright。Deb Rell，或者我记不清她的确切职位，因为他们的重点是Playwright，这是一个类似Cypress的前端测试框架。

If you look at back, I've met some really cool people that to this day I still keep in touch with, Eric being one of them. Probably one of the more two of the more common guests that I frequent guests have come from the Nuxt world, believe it or not. One is Debbie O'Brien, and one is Daniel Rowe. Debbie is now at Microsoft, and she's in charge of Playwright. Deb Rell, or I can't remember what her exact position is, because that their thing is Playwright, which is a testing framework like Cypress, a front end testing framework.

但我已经和她聊了三次，Lindsay和我聊了几次，每次她都有不同的工作。第一次我们聊的时候，她住在马略卡岛，一个西班牙岛屿，我相信她是爱尔兰人，但她住在一个西班牙岛上。她有浓重的爱尔兰口音，和她聊天非常有趣。

But I've talked to her three times, Lindsay and I talked to her a couple times, and every time she's had a different job. So the first time we talked to her, she lives in and she lives on the island of Majorca. It's a Spanish island, I believe she's Irish, but she lives on a Spanish island. And she's really, she's got a thick Irish accent. She's a ton of fun to talk to.

但第一次她为Nuxt工作，第二次她离开了Nuxt，在一家公司工作，不得不学习React，第三次是在微软工作，我们聊了Playwright和那个测试框架。如果你去过Playwright的Discord频道，她无处不在，发布公告，提供帮助，她很有趣。Daniel Rowe是另一位。自从我开始和他聊天，也许有关联，我不确定，他成了Nuxt组织的顶尖人物，对Nuxt的一切了如指掌。

But the first time she was working for Nuxt itself, and then the second time she had left Nuxt and was working for a company and she was having to learn React, and then the third time was when she was working for Microsoft, and so we were talking about Playwright and that testing framework. And if you ever go into the Playwright Discord channel, she's there, she's all over the place, she's making announcements, talking to help, so she's a lot of fun. And then Daniel Rowe was the other guy. Now he's since I started talking to him, and maybe this correlation, I'm not sure he's become like the top guy in the Nuxt organization. Know, knows everything about Nuxt and what's going on.

他有点像David Neal，非常安静，说话比我慢，解释得很清楚，超级友好。他住在伦敦。我邀请了他三次，还有Drew Baker。所以你有这两位对Nuxt非常了解的人，我就坐在那里让他们聊。

And he's sort of like David Neal, in that he's very quiet, talks a lot slower than me, explains things really well, super friendly. He lives in, I think he's in London. But I had him on three different times, and that was the times that I had him on, I had Drew Baker on as well. And so what you had was these two guys that knew Nuxt really super well. And I just sat back and let those guys talk.

因为Drew会说，你可以这样做那样做。Daniel会说，是的，你可以这样做那样做。我就说，听起来不错，你们聊吧，我就坐在这里偶尔插个笑话或问些问题，因为我对Nuxt有一些基本的使用经验，但远不及他们的水平。

Because Drew's going, well, you can do this and this and this. And Daniel's like, well, yeah, yeah, you can. You can do this and this. And I'm like, sounds good, guys. I'll let you guys talk and I'm just going to sit back here and throw in a joke here and there and ask some questions because I had some really basic uses of Nuxt, but not nearly to their level.

所以Danny总是很有趣。每次我在Discord上找他，他会说，嘿，你想来吗？是的，那太好了。甚至在我为View Mastery开发Nuxt课程时，他帮了我很多，花了一个小时给我解释怎么做，我肯定把他教的东西融入了课程。但可能还有其他几期节目我们稍后会聊，但回答你的问题，最喜欢的人和最喜欢的节目。

So Danny was always fun. Anytime I ping him in Discord, was like, Hey, you want to come on? Yeah, that'd be great. Even when I was developing my Nuxt class for View Mastery, he helped me out quite a bit and spent like an hour with me explaining how to do things, and I ended up incorporating what he showed me into that course for sure. But probably, there's a few other episodes we'll talk about later, but to answer your question, the favorite person and, well, favorite episode.

我最喜欢的一期节目大约是一年前与Laravel的Taylor Otwell合作的那集。原因在于过去三年里，我在日常工作中一直使用Laravel框架。这是个庞大至极的Laravel MongoDB Elasticsearch应用，名为GovTribe，专为政府承包商寻找政府合同打造，算是细分领域工具。随着我对Laravel的深入使用，两年后我突发奇想：要不试试邀请Taylor Otwell？管他呢！

Favorite episode for me was the one I did about a year ago with Taylor Otwell of Laravel. And the reason is that over the past three years I've been dealing with Laravel for my day job. It's a very huge, huge, huge view Laravel MongoDB Elasticsearch app, it's called GovTribe, it's a tool for government contractors finding government contracts. So it's sort of a niche thing. But I've been getting into Laravel, and so I'd been a couple years in, and I said, hey, let's see if I can get Taylor Otwell, what the heck?

说来有趣，当时我同时联系了两位开发界大牛——Taylor和另一位。对第一位我穷追不舍，但他始终没回复。后来我催得太紧，他直接在推特上发飙了，大意是'没回复就是太忙'。

And I'll tell this story, there was actually two, him and one other person who was very big in the development community, I reached out to at the same time. And this first person I bugged, I was being very insistent. He didn't get back to me. And then I bugged him one too many times, and he let loose on Twitter. Because if I don't get back to you, it's because I'm too busy.

我只好认怂：'好吧不打扰了'。没想到Taylor爽快答应：'好啊，听起来很有趣，什么时候录？'我当场就愣住了。

And I was like, Okay, I won't bug you anymore. The tailor was like, Yeah, that'd be great. That sounds like fun. When do you want to do it? I said, Okay.

我们顺利约好时间，他如约而至。有意思的是，我忘了提另一位主持人Luke Diebold——你刚才提到的。这位常驻澳大利亚的Quasar框架大神（Quasar是基于Vue的组件库，虽然我不太熟悉），我们因讨论Quasar而结识。Luke最终退出的原因是录制时间换算成澳洲时区是凌晨三四点，实在扛不住这么早起床。

So we scheduled it and he showed up. And what was funny, I forgot there was one other host I got, you mentioned Luke Diebold. And Luke used to live in Australia, very big in the Quasar community, he's a real big developer with Quasar, which is a Vue based, I guess a sort of a component library, I haven't worked with it myself very much. We've talked about it, that was how we first got met Luke was talking about Quasar. Part of the reason Luke was unable to continue hosting was that it was like three in the morning his time or four in the morning or something like that, Australia time, And it was just too much for him to get up that early for our recording time, so he dropped off.

这事让我特别遗憾，因为Luke超级有趣——带澳洲口音，活力四射，提问犀利。他淡出后，我们内部通知系统（新节目邮件提醒）突然显示他上线了。原来他也是Laravel重度用户！Taylor确认参加的邮件发出不到五分钟，我就收到Luke的回复：'Taylor Hotwell要来了？！'（注：此处'Hotwell'应为口误）

I was bummed because he's a hoot. Luke is fun, if you ever go back and listen to his episodes, he's very upbeat and excited, he's got his Aussie accent, which I love, and we think of some great questions. But he had dropped off for a while, and so we have an internal system like emails and notifications when a new episode is scheduled, we'll get emails, and apparently he was still on it. I got the and he So was a big Laravel user as well. And so once I got Taylor's okay, and I scheduled it within five minutes, dude, Taylor Hotwell's on coming.

我能加入吗？我也可以参加吗？Jay，当然可以。Luke，那太棒了，我们很欢迎你。

Can I come on? Can I join too? Jay, yeah, sure. Like, that'd be great, Luke. We'd love to have you.

我们录制那期节目时，一开始我就讲了Luke凌晨三点为了Taylor Ottwell临时加入的故事。Taylor当时笑了。但我想邀请Taylor的部分原因不仅因为Laravel在PHP社区的普及，还因为他做了很多Vue相关的工作，并将Vue整合到Laravel发行版中。实际上，我搜索Vue资料时，经常发现另一个叫LaraCast的网站，由Jeffrey Way运营，而Taylor的名字和Laravel总是一起出现，这很有趣。

So, we recorded that episode, at the very beginning, I I sort of told all that story about Luke jumping on even though he you know, at three in the morning just for Taylor Ottwell. Taylor sort of laughed it. But part of the reason I wanted to bring Taylor on was partially because of Laravel and just how ubiquitous it is in the PHP community. But also he does a lot of Vue stuff, And he was incorporating Vue into Laravel distributions. And in fact, I had when I was googling for Vue stuff, lot of times I'd find stuff on another site called LaraCast, a guy named Jeffrey Way, and then Taylor's name, and Laravel was always coming up in the middle, that's interesting.

所以我们聊了Laravel的整个发展史和他如何接触Vue。我忘了他发过一条著名推文，大意是说‘我个子矮，React太复杂了，我要看看Vue’。人们反应是‘真的吗？好吧’，然后开始关注Vue。

So we got to talk to him about the whole history of Laravel and how he got into Vue, and I forgot there's a famous tweet that he made where he basically said he was really short and he said, React is too confusing. I'm gonna look at Vue. And people are like, oh, really? Okay. And they started checking out Vue.

现在它们深度整合，比如提供Jetstream和Breeze这样的发行版，可以搭配InertiaJS使用——这也是我在Vue节目中常聊的话题，我自己也大量使用。最棒的是你可以直接下载内置Inertia和VueGS的Laravel发行版如Breeze，所有配置都已就绪，你只需开始编码。它还内置用户认证和验证功能，无需额外添加。但那期节目后，不知为何再没邀请他，虽然他非常友善——那次对话开始时我其实有点紧张。

And so now it's pretty tightly coupled in that they have distributions like Jetstream and Breeze that you can use with InertiaJS, another topic I've talked about quite a bit on Vue, that I use myself quite extensively. And so it's really awesome that you can download Laravel distribution like Breeze that has Inertia and VueGS, and it's all wired up, you just jump in and start coding and go from there. And it has all the built in user authentication and verification stuff for you, you don't have to throw that in. Great. But that was the only episode, and I don't know why it was, because he's a super nice guy, where I was actually sort of nervous when I started talking to him.

不知为何有点紧张，但聊开后非常愉快。那可能是我最喜欢的节目之一。回顾嘉宾名单时，我记得特别喜欢聊调试话题，有位叫Cecilia Martinez的女士在UConf讲过调试专题，我们邀请她来深入探讨。还有那些写博客或用Vue创业的嘉宾。现在想到的另一个特点是，我常开玩笑说我们是国际播客——虽然其他播客也是。

A little jittery for whatever reason, but once we got talking, we had a great time. So that's probably one of my favorite episodes. Yeah, mean, over the guest list that I've had, I remember one of the things I like doing is debugging, there's a gal named Cecilia Martinez, who gave talks at UConf on debugging. And so we got to have her on and talk about debugging, different things, different people that have written blog posts or people who have startups that are used, view quite a bit. And one other side of the guest that I'm thinking of now is I always used to joke that we're an international podcast because not like any other podcast isn't.

但我曾与来自非洲、印度、亚洲、墨西哥、美国、澳大利亚等地的人们交谈过，你能想到的地方都有。对我而言，这是极好的学习经历，之后我还会把一些内容收藏起来。哦，那太棒了，我真的很喜欢——

But I've talked to people from Africa, from India, from Asia, from Mexico, from The US, from Australia, you name it. And you know, that's been a great thing for me to learn, and I end up bookmarking stuff later. Oh, that is cool. I really like I

我之前没意识到，当然现在明白了，我们的用户群体是如此国际化。他们遍布全球，很可能你最喜欢的开源维护者并不住在美国。我想它的海外受众可能比美国本土还要多。

I didn't realize, and I've obviously realized since, but there's such an international audience review users. Like, there's they're just all over the world. Like, they're probably one of your favorite open source maintainers, probably doesn't live in The US. I think it I probably I wanna say it has a bigger audience overseas than The US.

有可能。确实很有可能。所以，看着这些，大约四年后事情就开始模糊交织在一起了。

It could be. Yeah. It could be for sure. So yeah. I mean, looking at this, it's sort of blurs together after about four years.

哦，还有一位我邀请过两三次的嘉宾——约翰·利德。

Oh, here's another one that I've had on a couple times. Two or three is John Leader.

约翰，他也在我名单上。

John He's on my list too.

是的，他负责Vutify。如果有人了解专为Vue设计的组件库，我在过去的项目中用过它，确实非常精良。邀请他两三次来讨论Beautify的更新进展很有趣。特别是升级到Vue 3时，他们进行了彻底的重构，耗时比他预期的长，尤其是像数据表这类复杂组件。但能多次邀请到他真的很棒。

Yeah. He he runs Vutify. If anybody knows the Vue component library specifically designed for Vue, and I have used it on projects in the past. It's really pretty slick, and so it's been fun to have him on two or three times just to talk about what's going on with Beautify with their updates. I know in particular the upgrade to Vue three, they did a complete and total gutting and rewrite has taken longer than he would have liked with some of the especially with complex things like data tables and some of the other components, but had him on two or three times.

他一直是位很棒的访谈对象。记得第一次采访他时（大约两三年前），他告诉我：‘我有注意力缺陷多动症，可能需要打断我，否则我会一直说下去。’结果确实如此。那期节目我基本只提了几个问题，就让他畅所欲言，效果非常好。倾听开发者的人生故事和产品历程总是充满乐趣。这些是我最先想到的嘉宾。

He's been always a great guy to talk to. He told me, I remember the first time we interviewed him, it's been two or three years, and he told me, yeah, I ADHD, might have to cut me off because I'll keep going and going, and it was true. I just sat back that first episode and asked him a few questions and let him go and he talked and talked and it was great. You know, a lot of fun to sit and listen to both backstories about the developer, you know, journeys as well as the products themselves. But, yeah, those are the ones that float to the top of my mind.

我也要补充几位。我绝对力荐约翰·利德——虽然像在重复播放，但今年我终于见到了许多Vue领域的偶像，包括他。

Yeah. I'll I'll jump in with a few myself. I I definitely double down on John Leader. I I feel like I'm a broken record, but this year, I actually finally got to meet a lot of my Vue heroes in person. So I just met him.

2019年或2020年我们曾碰面，但未深谈。这次终于有机会交流，我完全同意你的评价。另一位是早期在ViewSunview播客与查克、迪维亚共同采访的娜塔莉娅·塔波里尼（第52期）。

I'd I'd met him in 2019, or maybe it was 2020, but I didn't really talk to him. But this time I got to talk to him, and everything you said, I I agree with. Great guy, and I really like Beautify. So another person, in the early days, I was on a podcast, a ViewSunview podcast with Chuck and Divya, and we interviewed Natalia Tapolini. It's episode 52.

她是Vue.js文档团队核心贡献者，现任GitLab首席工程师。她的视角非常独特，讨论了Vue Vixens Slack频道及她在Vue生态的各项工作。她还经常进行技术演讲，那次访谈堪称亮点。

And it would she is a core contributor to the docs team for Vue. Js. She's also a principal engineer at GitLab right now, and it was just really interesting to see her perspective. She was talking about Vue Vixens, Slack channel, just everything in the Vue ecosystem that she's been doing, and and she does tons of different conference talks and things like that. So that that was a a highlight.

另一位是Maria Lombardo Lombardo，我们在第51期节目中采访了她。那是我、Chuck和Chris Fritz一起做的。她对无障碍访问特别热衷，在VueConf多伦多大会上做了一个非常棒的演讲，全程都在讲无障碍访问。

Another one is Maria Lombardo Lombardo, and we got to interview her in episode 51. That was me, Chuck, and Chris Fritz. And and another she's really into accessibility. She did a really good talk at VueConf Toronto. She talked all about accessibility.

不过能从不同角度理解无障碍访问确实很好。这期节目很有意思，如果你想了解无障碍访问，我会推荐你回听第51期。还有Sarah Drazner，多年来我一直很仰慕她。

But it was nice to, you know, have a different perspective on accessibility. There's so it's just an interesting episode. If you wanna learn about accessibility, it I would go back to that episode 51. And then also Sarah Drazner. So I I have a I have always looked up to Sarah for years.

她在Vue社区很有影响力，现在好像是谷歌的总监。其实我曾经联系过她——那是在我早期写书的时候，当时我在写《Vue实战》（不是播客书《Vue观点》，是《Vue.js实战》），出版社邀请人写推荐序。

She's really big in the Vue community. Now she is I think she's like a director at Google, And we it's I actually had at one time, I had reached out to her. So what in the early process of writing a book, when I was writing my views on Vue book not views on Vue, my, Vue JS in action. Not not the podcast book. Vue JS in action, you they ask you for to do a forward.

虽然最后是Chris Fritz写的序，但最初——这事我可能没公开说过——我本来想找Sarah来写。

And I already said Chris Fritz ended up doing it. But, originally, I don't think I've ever told this to anybody or at least not publicly. I wanted Sarah

独家新闻。这可是首发爆料。

Breaking news. You heard it here first.

我原本想请Sarah Drasner为这本书写序。但我从未见过Sarah，也没有任何关系网。我只是直接去她的网站填写了联系表单。她后来回复了我，让我把书寄给她。但她实在太忙了。

I wanted Sarah Drasner to do the the forward for the book. And I had never met Sarah, and I had no connections. And I just kinda basically went to her website and filled out the contact me section. And she had gotten back to me, and she had me send her the book. And she was just so busy.

她确实抽不出时间写序。于是我又联系了Chris Fritz。最终找到Chris Fritz是因为Sarah太忙无法写序。就在她上播客前，她还给我写过邮件——我们采访她时，我确实发过邮件。我想我的记忆没错。

Like, couldn't she didn't have time to do it. And then I got Chris Fritz. I ended up contacting Chris Fritz because Sarah was busy and couldn't write the forward. And she had wrote me I right before she went on the podcast, we interviewed her, I I emailed her. I think I I think my memory is correct.

虽然时隔已久，但我发邮件说：'顺便一提，我就是几年前联系您为我的书写序的那个人'。她回复道：'太抱歉了，当时实在忙得不可开交。虽然没能写序，但听说你出了书真是太棒了。'她表现得非常支持，态度也特别友善。

It's been a long time, but I emailed her and I said, oh, by the way, I'm the guy that kinda messaged you a year ago, a couple years a while ago asking you to write the forward for my book. And she's like, oh, I'm so sorry. I was so busy during that time. I couldn't make I couldn't write the forward, but, you know, that's awesome you created a book. She was like, so supportive, and just really nice about it all.

我回复说：'没关系，不必道歉，反而要谢谢你'。她人真的很好，后来我们还采访到了她。

And I'm like, oh, no problem. You know, thank you. You don't have to apologize. And she was great. And then we got to interview her.

我记得当时John Papa是她的上司。嗯...所以John Papa给她发消息说'顺便通知你有个播客邀约'，然后她就加入了。她的经历非常精彩，在Vue生态圈里成就斐然。

And I think at the time John Papa was her boss. So Mhmm. So John Papa, like, messaged her and, like, oh, by the way, you have a a podcast, and then she jumped on. And she's and just she she has just a really interesting story. She's done tons of stuff in the Vue ecosystem.

我记得她曾是Vue的核心贡献者，后来去了谷歌就退出了。她也认识Chris Fritz等人，所以他们有共同背景。这是另一个值得了解的，可以听听第29期节目，了解她在Vue生态系统的经历、她喜欢和不喜欢的地方。我就先提一下这个。

I think she's she used to be a core contributor for Vue, and then I believe she gave it up when she went to Google. And she knows Chris Fritz and stuff too, so they they have a background. But that's another one I would check out. It's Vue it's episode 29 just to listen to her story and what she's done in the VU ecosystem and what she likes about it and and doesn't like about it. So I'll I'll throw this out.

要说最难忘的一期，大概是在第91期Steve参与后，到大概02/1930期之间我完全没参与的那段时间。我当时在休息，做自己的播客。早期有次和Ben聊过这事，他都不记得了。

I I'd say the most memorable episode and I'm and I've definitely I had a a period between, like, episode 91 when Steve was on to, I don't know, 02/1930. I wasn't on at all. I had taken a break, and I was doing my own podcast. But in the early days and I I talked to Ben about this. He didn't even remember this.

第37期标题是《与Benjamin Hong聊Vuex、VuePress和NUC》，那是在Benjamin成为Views on Vue主持人前对他的采访。我们几个其实线下见过——我和Divya、Chuck还有Chris Fritz当时都在犹他州参加同一个会议。

But on episode 37, that was a it was the episode title was Vuex, VuePress, and NUCs with Benjamin Hong. And that was we actually interviewed Benjamin before he was a host for views on Vue. And we had all actually met up. So we got invited. I don't remember exactly the everything that happened, but all three of us, Divya, Chuck, me, and Chris Fritz, were all in in Utah at the same time for a conference.

我们在犹他州帕克城，当时那个会议好像叫前端开发者大会什么的，现在应该停办了。Chris Fritz和Divya是演讲嘉宾，我是公司出资去参会的。我住内华达州里诺市，飞过去也不远。

And we were at Park City, Utah. And this is when I think it was called, like, the front end developer conference or something like that. I don't think they have it anymore. And Chris Fritz was speaking, and Divya was speaking, and then I had my work paid for to just go to it. I'm in Reno, Nevada, so it wasn't that far of a flight to get there.

我们见到Chuck后，他带了全套播客设备。在举办会议的酒店楼上找了个房间——可能都没请示，就直接进去架好了麦克风和录音设备。

And so we all met, and we met Chuck, and then he brought all his podcast equipment. And then we found like a spot upstairs in this hotel where they were doing the the conference. We found a room. I don't even think we asked anybody. We just kinda walked into this room, and we set up all the the microphones and podcast equipment.

然后我们就那样，我我我现在还记得。我们就是坐在一堆椅子上围着桌子，直接面对面录了那期播客。那可能是我第一次也是唯一一次线下录播客。嗯。真的特别有意思，能和大家面对面闲聊，讨论会议的事。

And then we just were like in a little I I I still remember it. We were just in a bunch of chairs and around a table, and we just did the podcast in person. And that was the one probably the first and only time I've done a a podcast in person. Mhmm. And it was just so fun, like, being in person with everybody, like, chitchatting, talking about the conference.

后来我们连线了Benjamin Hong，那期我记得是最搞笑的。他简直太有趣了，我们所有人都笑到不行。后来好像还一起吃了午饭。能在一个房间里一起录播客真的太棒了。

And then we zoomed in, and we zoomed in Benjamin Hong, and it was just like the most funniest episode I remember. We're just he was just so funny. We're all just breaking up, laughing. I think we even ate lunch together later. So it was just so cool to have everybody in the same room together doing a podcast.

所以那期是我印象最深刻的一期。再后来Ben就成了全职的常驻主持。是的。

And so that that's that's my most memorable one. And then later on, Ben became a full time panelist host. Yeah.

我刚刚在回顾往期嘉宾时，另一个让我印象深刻的是Valery Karpov，大家都叫他Val Karpov。他主要是作为Mongoose的维护者而闻名，那是MongoDB的Node ORM工具，他做这个已经很久了。但他同时也是Vue用户，对Promise和async await非常精通。他还写过一本小书，我记得我有。人超级好，聊天很有趣，知识渊博。

I was looking just going back through and looking at some of the other guests, another one that stands out to me is Valery Karpov, Val Karpov. Now he's primarily known as the maintainer of Mongoose, which is the node ORM for MongoDB, and he's been doing that for a while. But he's also a Vue user and he's always very knowledgeable on promises and async await. He's actually written a book on a little book, think I have it. Super nice guy, very fun to talk to, very knowledgeable.

他运营着一个通讯和网站，应该是叫MasteringJS。我记得他还有个招聘板，之前我们公司招人时我用过。他也在JavaScript Jabber上过节目。对，他有asyncawait.net，专门讲异步编程的——如果你写过JavaScript代码，肯定对async await和Promise不陌生。

He runs a newsletter and a website, I think it's MasteringJS. And I know he's got a job board that I've used in the past when my company has been hiring somebody. He had him on JavaScript Jabber as well. Yeah, he has asyncawait.net, mastering asyncawait, which is if you've done anything in JavaScript, you know all about asyncawait and promises.

你有过吗？

Have you ever?

代码野蛮人。没错。所以他就是那个代码野蛮人。

Code barbarian. That's right. So he's the code barbarian.

他们有没有...我知道你做这个播客已经几年了。他们后来尝试过回归吗？我知道疫情打乱了很多计划，但他们有没有再尝试过让大家聚在同一个房间里做现场播客？或者你有没有飞去犹他州见过查克？

Have they ever done I I know you've you've hosted this podcast for a few years. Did they ever go back? I know COVID kinda messed things up, but did they ever try to do, live podcasts ever again with everybody in the same room, or did you ever go fly down to Utah and meet Chuck?

我只见过查克一次面，那次是因为另一个原因——他当时在波特兰转机。我不记得他是要去哪儿还是从哪儿回来，但他在机场有段较长的中转时间，而那里离我不远，所以我就去和他坐着聊了会儿。推特上应该还能找到我们的合影，如果你愿意翻我推特的话。但那就是我唯一一次真正见到查克。我确实在JavaScript Jabber活动上...对，老实说，我从未做过线下面对面的播客录制。

I have met Chuck one time in person, was because another and reason was because he was flying through Portland. He was going somewhere or coming somewhere, I don't remember what he was doing, but he had a layover at the airport for a while and it's not too far from me, so I went out and sat down with him and talked and got a picture on Twitter somewhere if you want to search my Twitter. But, that's the only time I've actually met Chuck. I did meet I was JavaScript Jabber. Yeah, he hasn't I have never done one in person, to be honest.

在我做过的所有播客中都是如此。

In all the podcasts, I've ever done.

一定要来波特兰。我们要线下见面录一期。

Gonna come to Portland. We're gonna do it in person.

噢，太棒了。那会很有趣。我超想去Vue大会的。

Oh, heck. Yeah. That'd be fun. I wanna go to Vue Comp so bad.

每年我都...我记得在播客里提过——我总是问史蒂夫：'你去Vue大会吗？'他就说：'不，我不去。'

I know every single year. I think I mentioned this podcast before. I'm like, Steve, are you in Vue Comp? He's like, no. I'm not going.

而他从事Vue开发已经...他做Vue开发差不多有二十年了。

And he works in Vue every he's worked he's like been a Vue developer for like twenty years.

是啊，我以前每年都参加DrupalCon，但那是因为公司报销。说实话2019年的时候...19年对吧？我当时在一家大型企业工作，主要做Drupal开发。我正努力把他们生拉硬拽进Vue的世界，用Nuxt重构我们正在做的网站，因为我受够了PHP缓存那些破事。他们同意了，我连奥兰多VueConf的门票都买好了，还包括参加Evan You的研讨会。结果因为一连串事件，我在会前离职了，最终没能去成。

Yeah, I used to go to DrupalCon every year, but then my companies would pay for it. So now to be honest, in 2019, the '19? I was working at a pretty huge corporation, it was mostly Drupal development at the time and I was trying to drag them kicking and screaming into the Vue world with Nuxt with the site we were doing because I was sick of dealing with PHP caching and that kind of stuff. And they had agreed and I had tickets bought and scheduled for VueConf in Orlando, including a workshop with Evan Yu. And then through a chain of events, ended up leaving the company before the conference and didn't get a go.

我真的很沮丧。我原本非常期待能去奥兰多参加那个活动，一是能和Evan一起办工作坊，二是会议期间的走廊交流环节总是让我着迷。虽然有时能从正式演讲中学到硬核技术，但与开发者们在走廊偶遇、在开发室里直接向某个项目的维护者请教——这些经历才最棒。我们不久前聊过你在VueConf的类似体验，你也强调过这种互动的重要性。所以是的，我特别怀念这些。为此我还一直缠着老板批准预算。

And I was so bummed. It was I was really looking forward to that one being in one, in Orlando, two getting to do the workshop with Evan, and three, I just love conferences because of the hallway track. There's times where conferences I've gotten some really good technical stuff from sessions, but the hallway track and meeting people in person and sitting in developer rooms and hashing stuff out with the maintainer of something you're using was always awesome, I've heard that talk, you and I talked about that here not too long ago about your recent VueConf and how that's important. So yeah, I've missed it. And then I'd been bugging my boss.

是啊，我们本来说好要列入预算的。结果第二年预算讨论时又说资金紧张，公司还在裁员缩减开支。最后只能作罢，我自己又舍不得自掏腰包参加。

Yeah, we got to set it in the budget. Okay, next year comes around. Okay, can we put it in the budget? No, we're not going have enough money, we're cutting back and we've had some layoffs and stuff. So yeah, it just hasn't worked out myself and I've been too cheap to pony up for it on my own.

不过要是会议在波特兰或附近城市举办，我肯定想办法参加。

Now if they do want to hear in Portland or something close, I could I could deal with that for sure.

其实你可以考虑做演讲者。以你的丰富经验，绝对能准备出精彩的演讲站上舞台。

I think you could do a talk. Like, you're you have so many experiences. I bet you can put together a talk and be on stage.

嗯，仔细想想确实可以。早年做Drupal时我就做过关于Apache Solr（类似Elasticsearch的技术）的会议演讲。这主意不错，我应该试试看。

Yeah. I suppose I probably could if I if I thought about it. I've done conference presentations before, back in my Drupal days on things like Apache Solar and which is Elasticsearch type thing. But yeah, that would be fun. I'd have to I could possibly do that.

肯定会很有趣。不过目前还没有线下活动的消息。

That would be fun for sure. No, nothing in person yet.

做这档播客让我深有体会——无论是去年和今年初与你的对谈，还是通过播客结识开发者社群，或是线下会议的真实相遇。这种人与人之间的联结实在太珍贵了。虽然通过播客交流很好，但面对面互动的感染力无可替代。作为开发者布道师，我越来越享受四处旅行结识同行的过程。

That's one thing I'm learning just like doing this podcast, being on with you the last, you know, few last year and and at the beginning, it's just the community. Just like all the amazing people in the community, and then getting to to meet the community virtually on this podcast or in person at conferences. It it I'm just definitely finding, like, that human interaction is just awesome. And and I I I'll take I'll take meeting people over the podcast, but I think there's nothing more you can't it's there's nothing beats just meeting someone in person. And, obviously, we can't do that with the the the way this podcast works, but, it's definitely something I'm I'm enjoying more and more as being a developer advocate and traveling around and meeting people.

确实如此。我记得加入前听过一期，Chris和另一位初次见面的嘉宾在录音室里实时录制，那种临场感很特别。

Oh, yeah, for sure. Now I do remember listening to before I came on, was an episode where Chris was hosting and he was in the room with somebody. Was like, first time, you know, first time we've ever met and they were in the room recording together.

是刚才我提到的那期吗？

Yeah, was that the one I just mentioned?

可能不是，我记得只有他和另一位嘉宾，不是你们全员参与的。

It might have been, I thought it was just him and one other per no, I don't think so, I think it was him and one other person. It wasn't the whole group of you.

我们当时是整个团队一起。确实如此。我记得克里斯也经常出差，他非常投入，因为那时候他还负责大量会议演讲的评审工作。我得查查克里斯的近况，不知道他现在在做什么。

Ours was the whole group. It was. I think Chris traveled a little bit too, and he he was very dedicated to get, because he also did tons of conference talks review back then. I gotta look up Chris. I wonder what he's doing.

很想和他叙叙旧。

Love to like catch up with him.

是啊。我记得他退出Vue文档团队时发了博客，或者是推特之类的。当时他提到主要是因为时间精力不够，他可是那个团队的重要贡献者。

Yeah. Know. I remember I do remember when he stepped down from the Vue docs team. He made a blog post and think about it or tweet or something along those lines. I remember when he stepped down and I think it was just like a lot of people time constraints, he was a pretty big contributor there.

那已经是两三年前的事了。之前和你提过，感觉很多人都在Netlify工作过，比如Sarah Drazner和Divya他们。我在Bluc时想说服他们用Nuxt，还专门安排了和他们的销售团队以及Vibya开视频会议，讨论如何用Nuxt在Netlify上托管我们公司的网站。那是我唯一一次和她直接交流。

But that's been two or three years. I used to, I was mentioning to you before, it seems like a lot of people have gone through and worked for Netlify at one point or another, like Sarah Drazner and Divya and stuff. So when I was at Bluc and I was trying to get them to use Nuxt, I had actually set up a, I did a conference call with them, with their sales people and with Vibya just to talk about what would be involved in hosting our company's site on Netlify using Nuxt. So that was the one time I've actually talked to her in person.

确实。有段时间感觉想邀请Vue相关嘉宾上节目，联系Netlify的员工准没错。

Yeah. It feels like for a while, like, you wanted to get a guest on for views on Vue, you would contact someone that worked at Netlify.

没错。

Right.

现在不知道还有没有类似的公司。Netlify好像转型了，听说他们更侧重企业级服务了。

I guess, I don't know if there's a company like that equivalent. Netlify kinda changed. I heard they went to more of an enterprise focus.

是啊。他们是不是刚收购了某家公司？

Yeah. Seems that way. Who did they buy? Didn't they just buy somebody?

他们收购了...等等，是那个GraphQL Vue相关的。不会是Gridsom吧？

They bought I thought they bought gosh. It was like that GraphQL Vue. Wasn't Gridsom, was it?

不是。Gridsom从没真正做大，始终没火起来。

No. No. Gridsom. Gridsom never really got that big. It never really took off.

Gridsom本应是Vue对标Gatsby的解决方案。

Gridsom was supposed to be Vue's answer for, Gatsby.

没错。总之他们确实收购了一家公司，但我很确定现在完全转向了企业赛道。你看他们官网首页就写着'Netlify是面向企业的现代开发者平台'。虽然仍为小公司提供托管服务，但重心显然放在企业级市场了。

Right. Anyways, yeah, they they did definitely buy a company, but I I'm pretty sure that they are now completely on the enterprise track. Like, literally on their front page, says, Netlify is the modern developer for enterprise. So I don't think they're they still offer some offerings for, like, hosting for smaller companies, but I think they're mostly focusing on enterprise now.

是啊。我有个多年没管的个人网站还托管在Netlify上呢。

Yeah. I actually have I think my own site that I haven't paid attention to in years is hosted on Netlify.

对，他们业务重心已经转移了。不过看起来仍保留了些托管业务——顺便说我们也有托管服务NUCs。

Yeah. Yeah. At the I think they've kinda switched over to that. But yeah. But it still looks like they still have some hosting on there, which, by the way, we do have hosting NUCs.

我们刚在AWS Amplify上线了NUCs托管服务，硬广预警啊。这叫厚颜无耻的推广。支持SSR托管的。

We just released NUCs hosting on AWS Amplify. Here's a plug. That's called a shameless plug. Yeah. SSR hosting.

待会儿聊到技术选型时再细说。当然播客最核心的环节永远是老爸笑话。今早回听早期节目时想起来，当时我用的是个超烂麦克风...

Yeah. We we talk about that a minute when we get to pics and that kind of thing. And the most important part of the podcast, of course, dad jokes. But, yeah, that's everything I can think about. Oh, one of the things I got to think about this morning when I was going back and listening to parts of the first episodes where I came on and I had a crap microphone.

那音质简直灾难。我没条件像Syntax那帮人那样折腾——他们能花几小时讨论声学装修和器材。最初用的是以前网站的Uniden麦克风，后来经人推荐换了Blue Yeti。问题是我在家办公角落录音，挑高天花板让声音反射严重。Yeti效果勉强能听但不够理想。

It was so bad, and I don't have the bandwidth or money to do like some of the syntax guys, they talk for hours about their offices and how they soundproof everything, and this is the camera and this is the mic. Think I initially had what was I using? Oh, had one that I had used at a previous site, it was like a Uniden or something like that, and then on recommendation from somebody else on a panel, had gotten the Blue Yeti microphone, and that was okay. My problem is that my office is here in the corner of my house, I have really high ceilings and just regular walls, and so the sound can be very bright. And so with the Yeti, the sound was okay, it wasn't as good as I would have liked.

后来调研后换了今年买的MB7——这是经典SM7B麦克风的USB版，录音行业标杆设备。迈克尔·杰克逊都用过同款。对比早期节目，以前像在山洞录音，现在虽不完美但强太多了。

And so after I did some research and then I went and bought this microphone this year, MB7, which is the USB version of the SM7B, which is a really well known famous mic through the recording industry. The example I always heard is it was the one Michael Jackson used, and I've seen it used by other hosts. So with this mic, I compared to how I sounded when I first came on, and I sounded like I was in a cave somewhere. This is I sound better, not as good as I would like, but certainly a lot better than than what I sounded like way back when.

你们没做过技术幕后特辑吗？比如录制设备和流程之类的？

You never did a, you never did a tech episode, like what I how you record these episodes and how many you use. Have you ever done an episode like that?

没有，因为内容撑不过两分钟。记得刚开始做播客时为Acquia录节目，用Skype通话配合Audio Hijack分别录制音轨。有位做过专业音响师的同事给了我GarageBand模板，我把音轨同步编辑后加头尾发布。第二期是和Drupal社区名人Robert Douglas聊Apache Solr搜索集成，当时他在德国。

No, probably because I would have enough to talk for about two minutes. I mean really I had, I can remember when I first started doing podcasts, and I'll tell a funny story for Acquia back then, so this was and Audio Hijack, and so the way it worked was I would talk over Skype and Audio Hijack could capture both streams separately, And then there's a guy at Acquia that I worked with who had been a professional sound engineer in the past, and he gave me a GarageBand template. And so I would drag these audio tracks from Audio Hijack into GarageBand as separate tracks and sync them up and edit them and do some things here and there and throw in an intro and an outro, and then I could publish it from there. I want to say it was the second episode I recorded of that podcast I did with the guy, his name is Robert Douglas, he's real big in the Drupal community. He was in Germany at the time, and we were talking about Apache Solar, and that was my real big thing was incorporating search into Drupal sites.

我们录了大概一个小时，你得进去确认两边的设备都开着，结果我录到节目末尾才发现，糟了，我只录了自己没录到罗伯特。只好联系罗伯特道歉说，能重录一次吗？他挺大度的，说可以，但这是最后一次了。

So we recorded for like an hour, you have to go in and make sure that everything's turned on in both places, so I get to the end of the episode and I realize, oh crud, I recorded myself, but not Robert. So I had to contact Robert and say, Robert, sorry. Could we do that again? And he was he was kind enough. He said, okay, but this is the last time I'm doing it.

那次是《Views on Vue》节目吗？

That that was that was views on view?

不是，是Acquia播客。那是我刚开始做播客的时候。

No. This was the Acquia podcast. This is when I first started podcasting.

明白了。你有没有遇到过技术问题严重到必须取消采访，或者录到一半中断，或者录完发现不能用的情况？

Got it. It has you have you ever had to have you had it you ever had tech problems to the point where you had to cancel the interview or stop the interview halfway through, or at the end you couldn't use it? No.

自那以后应该没再出过这种问题。刚开始做《JavaScript Jabber》和《Viz on Vue》时我们用Zoom录音，记不清另一端的设置了。顺便说，做这行的好处之一是查克会搞定所有技术问题、营销和剪辑，我只需要录音，这很省心——即便如此还是很花时间。后来我们转用了Riverside，这是个挺有名的播客应用。

I don't think since then I have had that issue. So once we started, when I first started with JavaScript Jabber and Viz on Vue, we were using Zoom to record, and there was, I can't remember what the setup was on the other side. Side note, one of the benefits about doing this stuff is that Chuck takes care of all the technical stuff, all the marketing and the editing and all that stuff, I just have to record, which has made it nice, and even then it's still a time suck. But we were using Zoom, and then somehow they would record from there and they would take that into editing. And then we went to Riverside, which was a pretty well known podcasting app.

我听其他播客提过用它，Riverside最棒的是音效功能。我超爱那个——可以给我的笑话加击鼓音效，还有笑声和其他效果，玩得不亦乐乎。它的工作原理是通过浏览器本地录制而非网络传输，录完会上传到Riverside服务器。总有个上传进度条，最好等传完再关闭页面，如果误关了他们会发邮件提醒你补传。

I'd hear other podcasts talked about using it, and the most awesome thing about Riverside was the sound effects. I was like, yes, because I had my rimshot that I could use my jokes, and there's some laughter, and there's some other ones I had thrown those in. It was so much fun just playing with that. And Riverside was cool in that the way it works is that it records locally in your browser instead of recording over, and then at the end of the episode it uploads to the Riverside servers. There's And if always an upload, status and you didn't want to leave before it had finished uploading, but if you did, they'd send you an email, Hey, go to this URL so we can finish uploading your stuff to Riverside.

然后

And then

他们开始收费，所以你们换了平台？

they started charging, so you guys went to another service.

对，具体费用我不清楚，但新平台便宜很多。两个月前我们转到了StreamYard，现在用它做视频直播。查克说特意问过音效功能，但我还没找到入口，也还没联系客服确认。

Yeah, I'm not sure about the money side of things. I know it was a lot cheaper. So now we've moved past two months, we've moved this one called StreamYard. And that's what makes that's how we're doing the live streaming over the video. And we're supposedly have the sound effects because Chuck said he asked specifically about it, but I haven't been able to find it and I haven't contacted them to.

我每周都说要联系，结果一直没行动——到底怎么在这个平台添加音效啊？

I keep saying that every week and I have yet to actually do it in contact. How do I get my sound effects in here?

是的，StreamYard很棒。我经常使用StreamYard。哦，你也用吗？或者说它确实很棒。

Yeah. StreamYard's great. I use StreamYard all the time. Oh, do you? Or it's great.

不过让我惊讶的是，你一直很幸运。因为以前我做播客时，时不时会遇到嘉宾的网络连接极差，就像在偏远地区用绳子拉网线一样。他们要么断断续续，要么我们不得不关闭他们的视频，尽可能减少带宽占用。嗯。几乎每隔一个词就听不清，但看来你用的工具没遇到这种问题——

I though I'm surprised, though, like, you've been lucky. Because when I was running my podcast every now and then, we would get a guest that just was on the most terrible Internet connection in in the middle of nowhere, like a string, and they would either cut in and out, or we'd have to turn off their video and, like, reduce as much bandwidth as we can. Mhmm. And you'd almost hear every other word, but I guess you got lucky that that the tools that you used didn't have Well,

用Zoom的时候我们这样做过——记得吗？因为不是直播只是录制，我们会关掉视频。这样能节省带宽，避免同时上传下载视频流。但在Riverside平台上，只有丹·夏皮尔让我们遇到过问题。Dan Shapir，拼写是s-h-a-p-p-i-r。

for Zoom what we would do when we were in Zoom, remember having to do this is we would have to shut off our video because we weren't live streaming it either, so it was just recording it. But that would shut up and that would save bandwidth you're not uploading and downloading all the video. We had to do that. With Riverside, the one person we had an issue with was Dan Shapir. Dan Shapir, s h a p p I r.

他住在以色列特拉维夫，网络非常糟糕。我们在Riverside的解决方法是暂停上传——先本地录制不实时上传，等结束录制后再自动上传，这个功能很实用。后来他装了光纤就再没这问题了，当时就是这么解决的。

He's in Tel Aviv, Israel, and he had a really cruddy internet connection. It was pretty bad, and so what we would do in Riverside is we would, you can pause the upload, so it just sits there and records locally and isn't uploading as you record, and that would help out quite a bit. And then when we stopped recording, then it would automatically upload from there, it was pretty cool. And, but then he got fiber finally at his place. So now it's not an issue so much anymore, but that was how we got around those issues.

不过确实有次出了故障导致整期没法用，具体原因我记不清了...

But yeah, of course I want to say there was one episode where something happened and we couldn't use it. I don't remember what it was, but

我印象中...档案库里存着一期从未发布的《观点对观点》节目。

I can't There's there's a so there is in the archives a views on view episode that has never been released.

应该不是《观点对观点》，可能是《JavaScript脱口秀》。具体细节我记不清了。

I don't think it's views on view. I think it was JavaScript Jabber, I think. I cannot remember what it was and how we did it.

独家爆料：存在一期无人知晓的《JavaScript脱口秀》未公开集数。或许某天档案管理员会解密它。

You hear it here first. There's a secret JavaScript Jabber episode that no one has ever heard of unreleased. One day, maybe the the archives, they'll release it.

对，等我死后就会作为遗作发布。

Right. Yeah. So when I die, they'll release it posthumously.

像《神秘博士》那样。没错。他们有些六七十年代的剧集至今仍下落不明。

Like a doctor who. Like Yeah. There you go. They they have, like, episodes from the seventies and sixties that they that have been lost.

哦，真的吗？我从没看过《神秘博士》，所以我

Oh, really? I didn't I've never watched doctor who, so I

算是有所了解。早年BBC播放《神秘博士》时，他们会重复使用录制剧集的磁带，导致大量剧集遗失，有些只剩音频，有些则完全消失。后来部分剧集通过动画形式进行了重制。

sort of followed it. Back in the day, like, doctor who was in BBC, and they would rerecord over the tapes that they used to record the episodes. So, like, there's a whole bunch of episodes that were lost, and some only have audio, and then some are, like, completely gone. And some of them recreated, like, in animation form.

哦，动画形式？这挺有意思的。这部剧大概有四十多年历史了吧？

Oh, in animation form? That's pretty interesting. Yeah. That's just been around what? Four decades?

五十年？

Five?

它已经

It's been

存在了相当长时间对吧？他们一直在更换博士的扮演者？

a crazy amount of time. Right? They just keep changing who plays the doctor?

是的。我记得首播是在1963年肯尼迪遇刺前一周。

Yeah. Think it was released the week at right before JFK was assassinated in 1963.

哇，有意思。就像《公主新娘》里的 dread pirate Roberts，新角色接替旧角色，而前任则在巴塔哥尼亚过着国王般的退休生活。

Oh, wow. Interesting. Interesting. Sort of like the dread pirate Roberts, you know, in in princess bride where just a new person is playing the dread pirate Roberts now, and the old ones are tired and living like a king in Patagonia. Right.

现在差不多一个多小时了，我想这次就先到这里吧。

So we're about a little over an hour, so I guess it's time to wrap this one up for now.

是啊，我们还能怀旧一小时，但观众可能不想听这么久。

Yeah. Think we could wax nostalgia for another hour, but I guess, people probably won't want to hear us. It's a long talking.

其实你可以随时按下暂停键，等下次在车上或什么时候再继续听。我们会讲到图片环节，这是节目中我们可以自由谈论任何合理话题的部分。这里我总会插些老爸笑话，偶尔也会分享些类似的内容。我想提的一点是，詹姆斯·韦伯太空望远镜（哈勃的继任者）传回的一些图像让我持续感到震撼——虽然我手头没有具体博文参考——那些画面简直不可思议。

Well, you could always just hit pause and come back for next time you're in the car or something. We'll get to pics. Pics are the part of the show where we get to talk about whatever we want within reason of course. This is where I always throw in my dad jokes, and once in a while I'll have a pick of something like that. I think one of the things I'm going to pick is that I keep being amazed at, and I don't have a particular blog post or anything is, if you look at some of the images that are coming out of the James Webb Space Telescope, the successor to Hubble, they are amazing.

记得哈勃望远镜刚问世时我们觉得它已经很棒了，虽然初期镜片有问题导致延期，还经历了疯狂的维修任务。但詹姆斯·韦伯望远镜的清晰度和精美图像完全超乎想象。今天我在推特上看到篇关于新发现恒星的报道，那颗恒星正处于诞生过程中——要知道恒星形成需要漫长时间。这绝对是近期最具影响力的科技突破之一。

I mean, we thought Hubble was good when Hubble first came out. Remember the Hubble Telescope, they had issues with their lens and it got delayed and they had to do some crazy repair missions and those were good, but the James Webb telescope is just unreal. Some of the clarity and the beautiful pictures. I saw a post article today somewhere, I think it was on Twitter, about a new star that they had discovered that was in the process of being born, and that takes a lot of time. So that's just been one of the really awesome things in technology that have come out lately that are really making an impact.

现在进入老爸笑话时间（请自行脑补敲钹音效）。上周大卫在我讲笑话时还真给我配了敲钹声，超酷的。

Now for my dad jokes, you're gonna have to imagine the rim shot. I'm sorry. I don't have it here. David was giving me rim shots the other day. That was cool when I was last week when I was talking.

既然这是最后一期，我决定破例多讲几个。有人说他们会挖鼻孔...真恶心。

But I'm there you go. So I'll do more than three. I'll do a couple more this time being the last episode. Know, people say they they pick their nose. Gross.

我知道！拜托告诉我儿子别这样。但我觉得我的鼻子是天生的好吗？又不是我自己选的。

I know. Tell my son, please. But I feel like I was born with mine. Alright? I didn't get a pick it.

今早我妻子问：冰箱里怎么塞满了炒菜？抱歉，我肯定又梦游了。

This morning, my wife said, why the heck is the refrigerator full of stir fry? So sorry, I must have been sleepwalking again.

这个

The

前几天我给儿子看七年前的照片，他说'哇你一点没老'，我反问'真的吗？'他秒回'假的'。

other day I showed my son a photo of me. Said this was taken seven years ago. He said, wow, you haven't aged a day. I said, really? He said, really?

要我说起码老了三四十年对吧？还有个段子让我笑喷——因为我两个孩子都当过餐厅服务员。有次用餐时我问服务员：'为什么我汤里有硬币？'他凑过来低声说：'您说过如果食物没有变化（双关change有'零钱/改变'之意）就不来吃了'。

I'd say more like three or four decades. And then, right. Oh, I cracked this, this one cracked me up partially because both my kids have been restaurant servers. So I went to dinner the other night and my food came, I asked the waiter to come over and I said, why are there pennies in my soup? He walked over and he whispered, you said you would stop eating here if there wasn't some change in the food.

经典改编版'服务员汤里有苍蝇'梗。好了该你了埃里克，你有什么好玩的？

So good. It's like, waiter, there's a fly in my soup, except waiter, there's change in my soup. So that's what I got. What do you have, Eric?

好的，我要厚着脸皮宣传一下，因为我上周全程参加了AWS re:Invent大会——这是AWS举办的大型会议，我们发布了一大堆新公告。其中我最喜欢的有两个：一个是Amazon Q，我们的代码补全工具。如果你们用过CodeWhisperer和VS Code，那是个可以免费添加的酷炫插件，能实现代码补全。

Alright. I'm just gonna same shamelessly plug because I spent all of last week at AWS re:Invent, which is the big conference that AWS puts on, and we had a whole bunch of new announcements. And I I think my most favorite one out of all of them well, there's two. One is Amazon Q, which is our code completion tool. If you guys have used, CodeWhisperer and with Versus Code, that's a neat plugin that you can add for free then you can do code completion.

而Amazon Q是我们的商业版本，具备一些非常棒的功能。比如最受关注的一个演示是：它能把应用从Java 14升级到Java 18，不仅列出所有操作步骤，还能直接点击确认自动完成升级。它还能进行修复操作并检测安全漏洞，这类功能非常丰富。

And then Amazon Q is our, like, business version of that. So it has some really neat features. Like, one of the biggest ones a lot of people like to see is we had a demo of upgrading an app from, like, Java 14 to Java 18, and it actually listed out the steps, and it showed everything to do and all the steps to do it, and you can actually just click yes, and it just does the upgrade for you. It also does remediation steps and looks for security vulnerabilities. So it has a lot of features like that.

虽然我提到Java，但它也支持JavaScript、TypeScript等各种编程语言和开发环境。你还可以用自有数据训练它。它还有Salesforce等多种插件。另一个重磅发布是AWS Amplify第二代，这是种代码优先的后端创建方式。

I mentioned Java, but it works with JavaScript and all different programming languages, TypeScript for all sorts of different development environments. And then you can also have it trained and learned on your own set of data as well. It has, like, plugins for a lot of different things like Salesforce and things like that. So that was a cool announcement. And the second thing was we released what we are calling gen two of AWS Amplify, which is a code first way of creating your back end.

它还能通过AWS AppSync设置数据架构，前后端协同工作。这种TypeScript创建的后端，其类型定义可直接用于前端数据操作（比如变更等），通过我们托管的GraphQL服务实现。这两个酷炫产品都在docs.amplify.aws上，我们重构了文档站，现在更现代、快速、美观。

And then it also has this really neat way of setting your data schema using AWS AppSync that works with the front end and in the back end. So it's a TypeScript way of creating your back end, which you can then use those same types in your front end to do data manipulation, like your mutations, things like that, using a our managed GraphQL service. So two really cool things, you can check it all out at docs.amplify.aws, and we redid our whole document site, so it's much more modern, fast, looks amazing.

太棒了。没错，我记得你刚加入AWS时我们聊过在亚马逊使用Vue的话题。

Awesome. Awesome. Yes. I think we've talked to you. I remember we talked to you when you first got to AWS about using Vue at Amazon.

那期节目很有意思。你们开发的工具主要是为了让人能快速基于亚马逊基础设施搭建网站对吧？认证、数据库、服务器这些开箱即用的功能确实省了不少事。

Pretty cool episode. It's really cool. I think a lot of the tools you work on is designed, I guess, you want to get a site up and running using Amazon's infrastructure, right? It does make things a lot easier for you out of the box for authentication or database or servers or whatever, right?

对，还有件事我差点忘了——我们和Nuxt团队合作了。我见到了Sebastian，之前还聊到过Dan。

Yep. And and also, I I totally forgot. I mentioned earlier in the episode, but we had we partnered with the NUCs team. So I met Oh, cool. Sebastian, and we talked about Dan earlier.

嗯，你见到Daniel了吗？

Mhmm. Did you meet Daniel?

Daniel？见了，但这次我们聊得更多。我们公司现在赞助Nuxt，成为其赞助商之一，他们还专门为我们开发了适配器。

Daniel? Yeah. I met him earlier, but, we we talked, more. And so we're we're sponsoring Nuxt as a company. And so we're part of their their sponsorship, and they created adapter for us.

现在你可以用服务端渲染部署Nuxt站点到Amplify托管平台。系统会自动检测，只需几步操作。我在eric.video的YouTube频道做过详细教程。如果想托管服务端渲染的Nuxt站点，可以去看看。

So now you can upload your NUC site using server side rendering and upload it to Amplify hosting. And it's just it automatically detects it. It's just a few steps. I did a whole video on my YouTube channel at eric.video on it. So So if you're looking to host your NUC site, server side rendered, then, yeah, check that out.

所以基本上你可以在本地构建好网站然后上传，就能直接运行了是吗？

So but you can basically just build your site locally and then upload it, and you're up and running?

对，没错。我们之前提到过Nellify，我知道他们也有类似服务，但他们正转向企业方向，而我们专注服务Vue和Nuxt开发者。当然我们也支持Next。

Yep. Yeah. We mentioned Nellify earlier. I know they have something similar, but I know they're switching kind of gears towards enterprise, but we are definitely focused on Vue developers, Nuxt developers. We also support Next, of course.

嗯，而且实际上你可以上传任何类型的网站，比如ASTRO、Svelte之类的框架也行。

Mhmm. And and we also you're you can actually upload any sort of site, ASTRO, Svelte, things like that too.

哦太棒了！我绝对是ASTRO的粉丝。说到嘉宾，Fred Schott（Fred K Schott）就是ASTRO项目的门面人物。

Oh, cool. Yeah. I'm an ASTRO I'm an ASTRO fan for sure. I good. Speaking of guests, Fred Schott, Fred K Schott, the guy that is sort of the the front facing face of Avastro.

我分别在《Views on Vue》和《JavaScript Jabber》节目采访过他。人超级好，幽默感十足。他们刚发布了第四版我记得。

I got to interview him both on views on Vue and JavaScript Jabber. Super nice guy, real fun, cool sense of humor. They just released version four, I believe.

我想...哦对，可以

Think Oh, yeah. Can

去体验看看。他们在过渡效果方面做了很多酷炫功能，还有其他创新。真的很棒！好了，我们就到这里。感谢Eric作为节目开场和收尾嘉宾，这段空白期是开始还是结束，我们拭目以待。想听老爸笑话的可以推特关注wonder95，每周至少五条。

get in and play with that. They got a lot of cool stuff with transitions, think, some other things, so So really cool. Alrighty, with that, we will wrap it up. Thank you, Eric, for coming on and being our bookend, beginning in the hiatus or end, we'll see how that changes. If you want to follow me and get a dad joke at least five days a week, wonder95 on Twitter.

我也会发到Slack和Facebook，但推特最方便。前几天教会有人跟我说：老兄，我知道有人专门为看你老爸笑话才关注你的推特。

Yeah, put them in Slack and Facebook, but that's probably the best way to do it. I I had somebody from my church the other day tell me that, dude, I know some people that follow you on Twitter just to get your dad jokes all the time. So

也要感谢Steve这么多年来独自扛起整个播客，协调嘉宾，应付不靠谱的主持人和嘉宾，始终作为优秀倡导者为大家带来这么好的资源。

And and thank you, Steve, for, like, literally putting this whole podcast on your shoulders for multiple years, working with guests, dealing with flaky people, hosts, and guests for all these time and just being, like, an amazing advocate and and bringing this cool resource to everybody.

噢不客气，这段经历很棒。就像我说的，你们还可以在《JavaScript Jabber》听到我，我们也会适时加入Vue相关内容。太棒了，那就这样。

Oh, you're welcome. It's been a great experience. But like I said, you can hear me on JavaScript Jabber, and we'll throw some Vue stuff in there too as it comes along. So awesome. Alright.

到此，我们将结束本次内容。感谢大家，希望你们享受使用Vue的过程。再见。

With that, we're gonna wrap it up. Thanks, everybody, and enjoy working with Vue. See you.