伊曼·加齐如何真正赚到1亿美元

伊曼，欢迎来到WAP，兄弟。

Iman, welcome to WAP, dude.

谢谢，我很感激。

Thank you. I appreciate it.

这可能是我人生中最激动人心的时刻之一，但六个月前我自己来到WAP，现在有你作为联合创始人加入，真的非常令人兴奋。我觉得我们正处在巨大突破的边缘，但我很想听听你为什么决定加入WAP？

This is probably one of most exciting times of my life, but coming to WAP myself six months ago, now having you here as a co owner, is pretty exciting. I think we're on the cusp of something huge, but I would love to just hear like why did you decide to join WAP?

所以WAP与其他任何平台相比，完全是一个截然不同的猛兽。有趣的是，你可以在上面处理支付、完成结账，还能将数字产品交付给客户，但如果你需要流量，可以通过内容奖励获取流量，也可以通过市场获取流量。我的意思是，目前我们在市场上每月为用户销售300万到500万美元，所以如果你还想更进一步，理论上你可以在WAP上赚钱，比如作为创作者，你可以在WAP上赚钱，假设你的销售额较低，你可以推送内容奖励来获得更多销售，然后收到款项，一旦客户进来，你实际上可以在WAP上交付产品，还可以直接在WAP上支付给你的团队，基本上就是这样整个闭环。嗯。一切都在平台上，这就是为什么很难与其他任何东西相提并论。

So WAP really is just a totally different beast compared to anything else out there. It's interesting because you can do your payments, can do your checkout, you can then also deliver the product, the digital product to the customer, but then if you want traffic, can get traffic through content rewards, you can also get traffic through the marketplace. I mean right now we're selling 3 to $5,000,000 a month for our users on the marketplace so it's just I if you I wanted to go even further, you could technically make money on WAP, like as a creator you could make money on WAP and let's say you sales were low, then you could push content rewards and get more sales, then you receive the money, then you know once the customer comes in, you can actually deliver the product on WAP and then you can pay your team directly on WAP and it's basically just like this whole Mhmm. Everything's on platform and that's why it's just it's hard to compare it to anything else out there.

百分之百同意。信息世界的一切都是割裂的。你需要七种不同的工具。每个人都有各自的平台。他们看YouTube视频。

100 percent. Everything in the info world is like disjointed. You need seven different tools. Everyone has their own platform. They watch YouTube video.

他们从Beehive注册你的邮件列表。他们去ClickFunnels做落地页。所有这些不同的工具，他们还得去完全不同的平台来完成交付。感觉我们就像把整个流程垂直整合了。

They sign up for your email list from Beehive. They go to click funnels for the landing page. All these different tools they go to a totally different platform to fulfill. It seems like we've just like verticalized the whole thing.

是的。我的意思是，甚至昨天，我们还在和工程团队聊天，查看直播的新更新，我们完全抛弃了Zoom，改用我们的

Yeah. Mean, even yesterday, we were chatting with the engineering team and we were looking at new updates on on the live streaming and we just totally scrapped Zoom for our

下一个，嗯哼。

next Mhmm.

关于我们的下一个活动。对于其中的VIP部分，我们将设立一个5000人的Zoom会议室，并进行直播，现在的效果已经非常好了。所以，这又是我能够整合的另一款软件。

For our next event. So for the sort of VIP section of it, we're gonna have a we're gonna do a 5,000 person Zoom room and we're like live streaming so good the way it is right now. So once again, just another software I was able to scrap.

是的。我觉得离开我作为创作者的全职内容事业，成为一名YouTuber，确实需要很大的决心。但我真的认为我们正处在某个非常特殊的时刻，希望能打造出世界上最伟大的公司之一。而且想不到有比你更合适的伙伴了，兄弟。所以非常期待能一起建设这个事业。

Yeah. I think it took a lot for me to leave my existing business as a creator, know, doing full time content, becoming a YouTuber. But I do think we're like actually on the cusp of something very special and hopefully building one of the greatest companies in the world. And couldn't think of anyone I'd rather do it than you bro. So very excited to build this together.

我有很多问题，如果可以的话，我想深入了解你的故事。我长期关注你的内容，从很早开始就在看。看着你的演变、经历的不同阶段、使用的各种增长策略，你一直非常活跃，总是紧跟新趋势。现在你的内容、你的飞轮、你实际发布的一切，比如你有五个不同的频道，我都不知道你是怎么产出这么多内容的。

I have a ton of questions if we can actually go into your story. I've been a long time viewer of your content, very early days. And watching your evolution and different phases you've gone through, different growth strategies you've used, you've been so dynamic and always with the new trend. Right now your content, your flywheel, everything you're actually posting, like you have five different channels. I don't know how you get out all the content that you get out.

你建立了一个机器，老兄。所以现在似乎是一个完美的时代，你可能已经在内容/信息领域积累了所有可能的知识。现在我们要把它打造成一个最酷的产品，希望全世界每个人都能使用。但我想了解Iman Godsey是如何形成的。我指的是你作为一个人和你的思维，也包括这个品牌，因为它现在已经不仅仅是你个人了。

You've built a machine dude. And so this seems like the perfect era that you probably I think you've accumulated all possible knowledge you could in the content slash info world. Now we're just gonna build it into one of the coolest products that hopefully every person in the world can use. But I would like to learn how Iman Godsey was made. And I mean that in both you as a person in your mind, but also the brand because it's bigger than just you right now.

它实际上是一个完整的业务。你会认为Iman Godsey是一个企业吗？

Like it's actually this like full on business. Would you consider Iman Godsey a business?

我会这么说。显然，尤其是在内容方面，我们确实把它当作一家媒体公司来对待。当我们决定认真对待它时，我们采用了在商业中应用的相同哲学和原则，然后我们说，好吧，酷，我们现在要把它当作一个企业来运营。

I would say so. Obviously, especially when it comes to the content side of things, we really do treat it like a media company. It's not just like like when we decided to take it serious, we took the same philosophies and the same principles we applied in the businesses and we're like, okay, cool. We're gonna treat this like a business now.

嗯。

Mhmm.

显然，你知道，过去几年我们决定要好好做这件事后，我们制定了一个计划，我认为我们执行得相当不错，我想我们现在就在这里了。

And obviously, you know, past few years once we decided, okay, we're gonna do this properly, it's you know we laid out a plan, I think we executed on it relatively well and I guess here we are.

所以我很想听听这个计划到底是什么，因为我亲眼见证了。你几年前大约有25万订阅者，然后在很短的时间内，你达到了500万订阅者。嗯，似乎不到一年。我记得我们聊过，你当时有点像预言了这一点。

So I would love to hear what this plan actually was because I witnessed it. You had around 250,000 subscribers a few years ago, and then in a very short time frame, you hit 5,000,000 subscribers. Mhmm. In almost less than a year it seemed. And I remember we talked and you kind of prophesized that.

你当时有一个大约10人的团队，你就像在说，我要把这个事情搞大。我以前从未尝试过内容创作，而这正是你真正加入了很多意图的时候。在我还只是一个观众、远距离粉丝的早期，你实际上每天都在记录你的生活。你每周读三本书，然后分享从这三本书中学到的东西，就像你十几岁时那样。你只是在记录你的生活，但后来有一个时刻，你实际上像是说，我要在我的内容中加入一些意图，尝试制作能够最大化算法影响力的内容。

You had like a 10 person team at the time, and you were like, I'm about to blow this thing up. I've never tried with content before, and this is like where you actually added a lot of intent. And so early in the days when I was actually just a viewer, a fan from afar, you were actually recording your day in and day out. You would read three books and then you would share your lessons from those three books like every single week when you were like a teenager. And you're kinda just documenting your life, but then there was this one moment where you actually like, I'm gonna put some intent behind my content to try to actually make content that could maximize the algorithm's reach.

听到你这么说，然后实际做出在我们领域前所未有的大事情，真的很酷。那么当你决定在内容中加入意图时，那个计划是什么？

And it was very cool to hear you say that and then actually do something bigger than anybody has done in our space before. So what was that plan when you actually decided to put intent into your content?

嗯，我想我们当时其实是在一起玩，那一定是2022年4月。嗯。是的。大约是在那个时期我们在伦敦闲逛，那大概是我觉得，好吧，酷。我们要开始认真对待这件事了。

Well, I think we were actually hanging out, it must have been April 2022. Mhmm. So was yeah. It was it was about that period we were hanging out in London, and that was about the time I was like, okay, cool. We're gonna actually start taking this seriously.

这有几个方面。首先是在YouTube上，你知道，那是我们当时的主要平台，视频的包装，这有一个因为如我之前所说，那真的就像是一个事后想法。我会想，好吧，我在想什么？我脑子里有什么？拍个视频，然后在当天，五分钟前，我们会当场想出一个标题和缩略图，而我必须完全重新构建这一点，首先审视我的市场，因为之前我的市场很小，我的市场只是对那些对代理机构感兴趣的人。

And there's there's a few facets to it. First things first is on YouTube, was our, you know, our main platform at that time, packaging of the video, this had a because as I said before that, it was really just like a it was an afterthought. I would think, okay, what am I thinking about? What's on my mind? Shoot a video, then on the day, five minutes before, we would come up with a a title and thumbnail there on the spot, whereas I had to totally reframe that and first of all look at my market because before my market was very small, my market was just people who were interested in agencies.

然后我扩大了范围，我想，好吧，让我和那些对在线业务感兴趣的人聊聊。但那也有一个总体的目标市场，然后我进一步扩大到那些关注生产力、自助和其他相关内容的人群，之后又稍微拓宽了一些，再后来通过视频博客触及更广泛的受众，而通过TikTok的短视频内容则覆盖了更广的范围。你知道，实际上现在我们正试图收窄范围。是的，我们实际上在YouTube上尝试不那么宽泛，我们正努力把它拉回来，因为如今我们有不同的商业目标。所以我认为这一切真正始于有意识的规划，另一件我想澄清的是，对很多人来说，建立一个像我这样大的品牌可能并不合理。

And then I went broader and I was like, okay, let me just talk to people who are interested in online business. But that also has a total addressable market and then I went wider to people who are into productivity and self help and all this stuff and then went a little broader then and then with the vlogs went even more broad and then with the TikTok stuff the short form stuff went even broader. And you know, finally now actually we're trying to bring it in. Know, we're actually trying to go less broad on the YouTube, we're trying to reel it back in because yeah, we have different business goals these days. So I think it all really started with just being intentional and the other thing I wanna make clear is for a lot of people, it won't make sense to have a brand as big as I took mine.

嗯。你真的只需要弄清楚你个人品牌的目标是什么。如果你的个人品牌目标是为你的风险投资公司获取交易流，那么在YouTube视频上获得500万次观看，其中有多少人实际上是符合你商业目标的正确受众？如果你谈论的是非常小众的内容，是的，也许你能让一个视频获得500万次观看，但其中有多少能转化为实际业务？我认为很多人过于关注观看量，而且很多人顺便说，他们看到我所做的并试图模仿，试图复制，他们觉得，好吧，因为他这么做，我也应该这么做，但问题是，是的，我有后端业务，我有30美元的产品、100美元的产品，还有3美元的产品，无论是消费品品牌、我的眼镜公司，还是移动应用，无论是什么，都要让这种广泛性变得合理。

Mhmm. You really just have to figure out what is your goal with your personal brand. If your goal with your personal brand is to get deal flow for your VC, getting 5,000,000 views on a YouTube video, like how many of those people are actually how many of those people actually are the right eyeballs that tie into your business goals? If you're talking about something that's very niche, yeah maybe you can get 5,000,000 views on a video but how many of those will convert to actual business? I think a lot of people focus too much on viewership and I think a lot of people By the way, they see what I do and they try to emulate it, they try to copy it and they're like, okay, because he's doing that, I should do that too and it's like, well, yeah, I have the businesses on the back end and I have stuff that's $30 and stuff that's a $100 and stuff that's $3 whether that be a consumable brand, whether that be my eyewear company, whether that be a mobile app, whatever it is to actually make it make sense to be that broad.

而另一方面，是的，我看到很多人在销售2万美元的B2B产品，然后试图制作像“我成为百万富翁学到的5件事”这样的内容。嗯。对那种视频感兴趣的人可能并不是寻找2万美元B2B服务的同一类客户。所以我认为对我来说，关键在于有意识。我们有意地选择了广泛覆盖，这就是我们所做的，然后只是关于我们能拉动哪些杠杆，并在执行严肃性上将其提升到下一个水平。

Whereas, yeah, as I I see a lot of people who are selling stuff for $20,000 b to b offers and then, you know, trying to make like a a very 5 things I learned to become a millionaire. Mhmm. It's like you're the sort of person that's interested in that kind of video probably isn't the same sort of client that is looking to pay for a b to b $20,000 service. So I think it's for me it really is just about being intentional. We intentionally set out to go broad, that's what we did and then it was just a matter of what levers could we pull and taking it to the next level in terms of how serious we did it.

就像我们做得过头了。嗯。三个全职缩略图编辑，尽管那时我每周只上传一次视频。你知道，现在我们有多频道，但那时我每周上传一次。所以每周上传一次，却有三个全职内部人员，因为我们会回顾并重新处理所有视频，所以每天都会有新的测试。所以你是说

Like we went overkill. Mhmm. Three full time thumbnail editors even though I was uploading at that point, you know, now we have multiple channels, by that point I was uploading one time a week. So uploading once a week, you had three people in house full time because we would go back and we would rehash all of our videos so every day there would be a new test. So you're saying

那些甚至一年前发布的旧视频

the old videos that have been posted even a year ago

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你有三个全职缩略图编辑，只是不断更改你频道上的每个视频。那真的就像如果它被推荐，因为即使是一年前的视频，它们也一直在被推送。

So you have three full time thumbnail editors just constantly changing every video on your channel. That really just so like if it gets recommend because those are all constantly getting pushed even if they're a year old.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但也许对于那些第一次看到时没决定观看的人来说，这甚至感觉像是一个新视频。

But maybe that even like feels like a new video to someone if they didn't decide to watch it the first time they saw it.

是的。不仅如此，这种重新测试几乎给了它一个...如果你真的进行拆分测试并且得到更好的结果，那么算法就会进一步推广它。

Yeah. Not only that, but that retest almost gives it a a and and if you actually if you split test and you get a a better result, then the algorithm will then push it out further.

嗯。

Mhmm.

尤其是在2022年、2023年，这对我们来说效果非常好。你知道，有些视频我们一年前上传的，突然间，通过拆分测试缩略图、测试标题，在几个月内就获得了数百万的观看量。

And that was, like, especially in 2022, 2023, that was like it was killing it for us. You know, there was videos that we we'd uploaded a year before, and all of a sudden, you know, split test the thumbnails, split test the titles and, you know, millions of views in the space of a couple months.

我会每天刷新你所有视频的推送，每个视频都是不同的颜色、不同的场景、不同的标题角度，就像一直在变化一样。

I would refresh your, like, feed of all your videos in every day, which is different color, different set, different title angles like constantly.

没错。

Yep.

所以通过观察，你就能真正看到哪些方面运作得很好，哪些不行。因此非常感谢你分享这一点。

And so that was like from observing, you could like actually see what was working very well and what wasn't. So thank you for that.

所以所以缩略图是一个方面。然后主要问题甚至在于我的包装方式。嗯。

So so so thumbnails was one. Then main thing was just even as I packaging. Mhmm.

就像是你可以有

Like it's like you could have

在代理领域编辑最精良、标题最佳、缩略图最吸引人的视频，但归根结底，该领域的总体可寻址市场很小。嗯。而更大的市场是在线业务，但比那更大的市场是自助领域，再往上则是更广泛的人群只是认识你。嗯。我们在不同平台上也有不同的策略。

the best edited, best title, best thumbnailed video in the agency space, but at the end day, the total addressable market of that space is small. Mhmm. And a larger market is online business, but then a larger market from there is self help, and then a larger market is just generally people just knowing you. Mhmm. And we have different strategies as well on different platforms.

说到我们的短视频现在，我们将其视为一般的品牌知名度。我的看法是，我在短视频上投入的预算，每月能获得约2亿到3亿的观看量，而在那个部门，如果要在Facebook上获得同样的观看量，我可能每月得花80万，甚至100万美元才能得到那种眼球和印象。所以是的，我的观点是短视频和剪辑内容就是为了无处不在，你没法躲开我。就像我无时无刻不在各处出现。嗯。

When it comes to our short form now, we just like that as general brand awareness. The way I view it is I'm spending what I'm spending on short form, we get about 200 to 300,000,000 views a month, and on that department now, we're spending like on Facebook to get that kind of viewership, I would have had to spend 800 k, maybe a million dollars a month to get that sort of eyeballs and that sort of impression. So yeah, way that I look at things is the short form and the clipping stuff is it's just omnipresence and you can't can't kinda get away from me. Like, I'm just everywhere at all times. Mhmm.

而且，我们发现有很多人热爱TikTok，喜欢Insta Reels，但他们就是不看YouTube。嗯。不管你的内容有多好，他们就是不看YouTube。现在也有一些人是不看短视频的，不看Reels，不看TikTok，但他们只喜欢YouTube的视频内容。对我们来说，我知道你可能不会看我的主YouTube频道，但现在有了商业频道，你会看商业频道，但我敢肯定你会看vlog频道。

And also, we find that a lot of people there's a lot of people who love TikTok, love Insta Reels, they just don't watch YouTube. Mhmm. They just like no matter how good your stuff is, they just simply won't watch YouTube. Now there's some people that don't watch short forms, they don't watch reels, they don't watch TikTok, but they only like YouTube video stuff. And also for us, I know you're not probably you're not gonna watch my main YouTube channel, but now with the business channel, you'll watch the business channel, but I know for a fact you watch the vlog channel.

嗯。我们甚至从未谈过这个，但我没说错吧？

Mhmm. We never even had this conversation, but am I wrong?

100 你看

100 You watch

那个vlog频道？是的。所以我知道我们大概为每个人都准备了点东西。嗯。现在，要达到那个阶段也需要时间，因为说到底，我每个月只花——好吧，可能这个月因为我们要做整个新闻发布之类的事情，可能会多花一点时间，但平均来说，我每个月只花四到六个小时来创作内容。

the vlog channel? Yeah. So I know we kinda have something for everyone. Mhmm. Now, that's also taking time to get to that place because at the end of the day, I only spend okay, maybe this month because we're doing the whole press release and stuff like that, maybe a little bit more time, but on average, I only spend four to six hours a month on creating content.

所以你需要建立非常健全的系统，才能再次做到这一点，你必须把它当作一个正规的媒体公司来对待。嗯。因为如果让我一个人坐下来做所有事情，没有团队协助和帮忙，那就会花太长时间。我就没时间真正花在业务上了。所以是的，你知道，我们是很认真的。

So you need to have very robust systems in place to actually once again, you have to treat it like a proper media company. Mhmm. Because for me to sit down and do everything and not have a team to assist and help me out, it would just would simply take too long. I'd have no time to actually spend on the businesses. So yeah, it's you know, we we took it serious.

我觉得这很

I think it's very

酷，你说你设定了针对目标市场的意图。

cool that you're saying that you set the intent with the target market that you're going for.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后重点不是发布越来越多的内容，而是我认为是要让你发布的内容获得更多的覆盖范围。

And then it's not about posting more and more content, but I think it's about getting more reach out of the content you were posting.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我认为你绝对是首批真正破解大规模短视频分发的前两三个人之一。嗯。我的意思是，如果你只是制作YouTube视频，可能只能获得总观看潜力的5%左右。但你基本上一度雇佣了超过100名剪辑师，我敢肯定。我很想听听这个运营是如何开始的，你是怎么发现这个机会的，如何建立的，结构是怎样的，以及所有细节，如果你能解释一下。

And so I think you were literally probably one of the first two or three people to really crack mass short form distribution. Mhmm. Because I mean, if you just make a YouTube video, that probably gets you like 5% of the total view capacity you could get. But you basically hired like over a 100 clippers at one point, I'm sure. I would love to hear how that operation how you came across that, how you like set that up, how it was structured and everything, if you could explain.

是的。所以我们成立了短视频部门。回顾一下，缩略图是我们使用的一个杠杆。缩略图之后，我们在Twitter上有不同的策略，在LinkedIn上也有不同的策略。

Yeah. So we started the short form department. So going back to like thumbnail was a lever that we pulled. Thumbnail, then we had a a different strategy on Twitter. We had a different strategy on LinkedIn.

就像，我们拥有所有这些，它们就像是这个媒体机器中的子部门。

Like, we have all of these they're kinda like these sub departments within this media machine.

嗯。

Mhmm.

显然剪辑是其中之一，我们在这方面投入很大。在三个月内，我们从零团队发展到65名全职内部员工。我不建议任何人这样做，当时我们每月在那个部门花费约25万美元，自那以后我们变得更高效，当时每月获得约1亿次观看，现在团队规模小得多，但每月获得2到3亿次观看，我们再次找到了不同的杠杆，比如我相信你在我的短视频中见过，给大家一个小提示。我相信你在我的短视频中见过，比如我们有播客

Then clipping obviously was one of those and we we went hard on that. Think in three months, we went from a team of zero to 65 people full time in house. I wouldn't recommend that for anyone, think we were spending about a quarter million dollars a month on that department and you know since then we've become more efficient and we were getting about a 100,000,000 views a month at that point, so now we have a much smaller team and we're getting two to 300,000,000 views a month and we found once again different levers to pull like for I'm sure you've seen on my short form, guess here's a little insight for people. I'm sure you've seen on my short form like we have like podcasts

像这样 嗯。

like this Mhmm.

人们总是问，这些播客在哪里？比如，我在哪里能找到？你找不到，嗯？因为我从不发布我们的完整播客。如果我们有这样的设置，或者我们在一个很酷的地方，比如我和Alex或我和Amara，我们就会坐下来聊个大概30分钟。

And people are always asking like, where are these podcasts? Like, where can I find You can't because Mhmm? I never release our podcast. If we have something set up like this or we're in a cool location like, you know, Alex and I or Amara and I, we'll just sit and we'll just talk for like thirty minutes.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就是随便聊聊。然后从中可能会产出10到12个不同的片段，而完整的播客永远不会发布。因为我没有——我实在没有时间去搞一大堆播客，而且说实话，大多数播客我并不太喜欢。嗯。对我来说，这样很有趣，因为我们是真的朋友，所以这感觉甚至不像在做播客，更像是一次真诚的对话。

Just shoot the shit. And then from there, there might be like 10 to 12 different clips that come out of it and the podcast never goes out. Because I don't have the I just simply don't have the time to like set up a bunch of podcasts and like I also to be honest, most podcasts I don't really enjoy. Like Mhmm. For me, this is lot of fun because you know, we're genuinely friends, so this doesn't feel like this doesn't even feel like we're doing a podcast, such as a a genuine conversation.

但对我来说，要花时间旅行，在播客场地待上两个小时，诸如此类，就为了获取片段，因为我明白了这一点。我曾好奇为什么人们要上那么多播客？嗯。比如有些人一周上五个播客，每周都这样，我当时就不理解。后来我明白了，哦，因为他们不在乎播客本身，他们可能只获得了14,000次观看——你知道，对一些粉丝很多的人来说这并不算多——他们在乎的是那些片段。

But for me to, like, travel and spend, like, x amount of time traveling and two hours on a podcast set and blah blah, all this stuff to get clips, because that's what I saw. I was wondering why are people going on so many podcasts? Mhmm. Like people go on like five podcasts a week, like every single week and I just didn't understand. I was like, oh, it's because they don't care about the podcast, they got maybe 14,000 views which you know for someone you know, some of these people who have large followings that's not really much, they care about the clips.

嗯。所以我就想，如果我能不做播客就得到片段呢？

Mhmm. So I was like, what if I could get the clips without doing the podcast?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得，哦，太酷了，我们就做这些内部录制，随便聊聊，然后就能从中得到10到15个片段，这另一件事意味着我能在短内容上收获更多，同时投入更少。嗯。因为说到底，你知道，我还得经营生意，我不能——我不是全职的内容创作者。所以，这对短视频部门的事情确实很有帮助，是的，这真是一段旅程。就像我说的，我们已经这样做了大约两年半了。

So I was like, oh cool, we just do these internal pods, shoot the shit and then you know, we're gonna get 10 to 15 clips to come out of it and that was another thing that meant that I was able to get more out of short form while putting less in. Mhmm. Because at the the day, you know, I'm still I have to run the businesses like I can't I'm not a full time content creator. So yeah, was one thing that really helped with the short form department stuff and yeah, it's just been a journey. As I said, we've doing it for about two and a half years.

据我所知，目前我真的不知道地球上还有谁能像我们一样拥有这么多自有账号并获得如此多的浏览量。当然肯定有人获得更多观看量，但我们拥有一系列账号，每月能带来两三亿的浏览量，这非常不可思议，需要大量工作，我不建议任何人这么做。这也正是我对内容激励计划如此热衷的原因之一——它能让你获得我曾拥有的好处。过去两年半时间里，我估计在这方面投入了大约200万美元，虽然我们的成本已经下降，效率也提高了，但这笔投入是实实在在的。

As far as I know now, I really don't know anyone else on earth that has as many owned accounts getting as many views as us. I'm sure there's people who get many more views, the fact that we have a collection of accounts that bring us two, three hundred million views a month is incredible, it's a lot of work, I don't recommend it for anyone and that's one of the things that for example, I'm so passionate about with the content rewards stuff, it's like you get to receive the benefits I've had. Like I've spent in the last two in the last two and a half years, I guess I would have spent because obviously our costs have gone down, we became more efficient, but I would guess I probably spent $2,000,000 on that department.

仅仅是在剪辑上。

Just on clipping.

仅仅是在剪辑上。

Just on clipping.

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如果你认真想通过数字产品赚钱，请点击下方描述中的第一个链接注册免费门票。现在，回到

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节目内容。其实大多数人根本不需要...嗯...但像拥有全职人员、全职员工这样

to the episode. And most people just don't need to go to and like Mhmm. But like having full time people, full time staff like

全部内部化，你得每月支付薪水，管理所有人员，还要进行质量把控等等

All internal, you have to pay them salaries monthly, you have to manage all of them, quality assurance like

是的。

Yeah.

大家都知道这是一件非常有价值的事情。嗯。这对你的业务、对你的频道有多重要？

Everyone knew it was like a very valuable thing. Mhmm. How like how important was it for your business, for your channel?

超级重要。就像是

Super important. It's like

你们的关键分发渠道。

the key distribution for you guys.

这超级重要，但问题是，我们已经有或者现有的剪辑师，就剪辑部门来说，我不知道，大概收到了15000份申请，10000份申请，差不多这样。没多少人能吸引1万到1万5千人申请全职为他们工作。

It's super important but the thing is like we've had also get the clippers that we've had or that we have, like we've had maybe for that for the clipping department, I don't know, what like 15,000 applications, 10,000 applications, something like that. Like not many people can get 10 to 15,000 people to apply to work for them full time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且你知道，必须他妈的大大感谢那个部门，所有在那里工作的人，我们有不可思议的超级明星，我为他们感到非常自豪，但这当然是一项繁重的工作。嗯。你知道吗？所以即使你有预算投入到剪辑上，因为这是让你的面孔、你的名字、品牌知名度无处不在的绝佳方式，但对大多数人来说，他们甚至找不到五个或十个剪辑师。嗯。

And you know, absolute fucking massive shout out to that department, everyone who works there, we have incredible superstars and I'm so proud of them, but of course, it is it's a lot of work. Mhmm. You know? So even just like, let's say you do have the budget to put towards clipping because it's it's just such an incredible way of getting your face out there, your name out there, that brand awareness and being omnipresent, but for most people they couldn't even get five or 10 clippers. Mhmm.

你知道，我们曾拥有10,000到15,000人的竞争优势。

You know, we've we had that competitive advantage of having 10 to 10 to 15,000 people

申请。而像WAP这样的平台，它们有一个剪辑师目录，这些人每天都在那里准备剪辑内容赚钱，他们充满干劲，随时准备帮你推动品牌发展。说实话，这种供应体系我在其他地方从未见过。这真的很酷，因为我看到所有人都想模仿你，但他们没有每月10万美元来雇人。就算他们能雇，也找不到剪辑师。

apply. Whereas, someone like WAP, like there is you have that directory of clippers who are there every single day ready to clip people's content, make money, they're hungry, you know, they're ready to they're ready to help you move your brand forward. So you have that supply there which you know, it's I've never seen anywhere else quite frankly. It's just really cool because I watched all I everyone saw you do it and everyone wanted to copy it but they didn't have a $100,000 a month to hire people. They couldn't even get the clippers if they could.

他们必须自己管理所有账户和发布。这就像至少需要100万到200万美元的运营开销才能实现那种规模的短视频分发。我们确实以那个系统为模型设计了内容奖励机制，我认为它自动化了一切。就像你说的，剪辑师在市场上，自动追踪支付，并且只按CPM付费，所以你每千次观看只需支付一美元。

They had to manage all the accounts post themselves. It's like this like at minimum a $102,100,000 dollar like set of overhead just to get short form distribution at that scale going. And we really modeled the content rewards after that system and I think it's automated everything. Like like you said, the clippers are on the marketplace, they automatically track payouts and they only pay on a CPM. So you only pay a dollar per thousand views.

你们是付固定费用给剪辑师，还是怎么安排薪酬结构的？

Were you paying people a flat fee or how did you guys do pay structures for clippers?

我们尝试过不同方式。试过固定费用、固定费用加激励。最终我们回到了固定费用，因为对我们来说还有一个不同点是，我们不想只优化观看量，因为我们已经到了一个阶段，知道我们能获得观看量。嗯。现在，我们真正希望品牌内容围绕什么？

We've played around with it. We've played around with flat fee flat fee plus incentive. We ended up going back to flat fee because one of the things that was different for us as well is like, we didn't just wanna optimize on views because we kinda got to a point where we're like, we know we can get views. Mhmm. Like, now what do we actually want the brand content to be around?

所以我认为第一步——不过这么说有点特权——第一步是获取观看量。嗯。这应该是大多数人的重点。先获取观看量，然后也许我们将观看量缩减20%或30%，但尝试获得不同类型的内容。对我们来说，固定费用效果最好，因为有时激励人们基于观看量，对我们来说，反而得不到正确的内容。但再次强调，这里你也可以设置参数。

So I think step but that's a very privileged thing to say by way, like step number one is get views. Mhmm. And that should be the focus for most people. Get views and then focus on like maybe we scale back the views by 20% or 30%, but try to get different kind of so it's you know, for for us flat has worked best because sometimes incentivizing people on viewers, don't get on views, for us specifically, you don't get the right content. But once again, this is where you can kinda set the parameters as well.

你可以说，哦，这些内容违反品牌指南，诸如此类。

You you can say, oh, know, these things are go against the brand guidelines, stuff like that.

是的。你这是在反思大约三年的经验教训，但我觉得如果你今天开始，首先应该制作一批内容，尝试找到内容市场契合点，然后一旦有了范例，就可以向新人展示这些必须遵循的要求。

Yeah. You're reflecting on like three years of like lessons, but I think if you're starting today, it's like, first get a batch of content, try to find like that content market fit, and then once you have examples, show the new people these are what the requirements you must follow.

没错。如果我一开始就推出并说‘嘿，这是X指南X Y Z等等，要严格控制大家’，那就不明智了。嗯。我们大概用了一年左右的时间推出，几乎没什么规则，就是获取浏览量。嗯。然后从那里开始，我们显然可以逐步优化之类的。

Exactly. It it wouldn't have been smart for me to launch and say, hey, this is the x guideline x y z blah blah like like kinda have a choke hold on people. Mhmm. Like we had to launch it for like a year or so with kinda no rules, just like get views Mhmm. And then from there obviously we can kinda start to refine and stuff like that.

嗯。并且优化，绝对是的。所以我认为这终于像是为普通人提供了一个机会。嗯。你不需要预先投入任何资金。

Mhmm. And optimize, absolutely. So I think this is something that like is finally like an opportunity for the everyday person. Mhmm. You don't need to put any money up front.

现在你只需根据获得的浏览量付费，Clippers会在市场上直接找到你。

Now you only pay after the views you get and Clippers will literally find you on the marketplace.

是的。另外关于这一点我还想说，不管怎样我都有这笔账单。这是我月复一月无论如何都要支付的费用，而对于一些人来说，他们可能希望在三个月内为自己的品牌增加一些额外的热度。嗯。你知道，可能是为了即将到来的发布或新产品发布，或者不管什么原因，也许他们的业务有季节性。嗯。

Yeah. Also just another thing I wanna say about that is like I have this bill no matter what. Like this is a bill that I pay regardless month in month out, whereas for some people maybe they want a little bit of extra heat around their brand for three months a Mhmm. You know, maybe coming up to a launch or a new product launch or maybe whatever, maybe they have a business that has seasonality to it. Mhmm.

也许他们希望在这些时期获得额外的热度，但在淡季，比如说我的眼镜品牌。嗯。正如眼镜品牌所暗示的，夏季对我们来说非常忙碌。显然冬季会慢一些，所以通过像内容奖励这样的方式，你现在可以在一年中对你最有利的三或六个月里获得所有这些关注和眼球，而另外六个月，它就不再是你损益表上的支出了。所以这给了你那种灵活性。

Maybe they want that extra heat in those periods, but in slow months, let's say for example, like my eyewear brand. Mhmm. As an eyewear brand would suggest, summer months are crazy for us. Obviously winter months a little slower, so with something like content rewards, you can now get all these eyeballs and all this attention for maybe three months or six months of the year when it serves you best, and then the other six months, well it's not an expense on your p and l anymore. So it just gives you that flexibility.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这非常有趣。我很喜欢你提到你喜欢这些私人播客的原因，因为它不是关于上乔·罗根或克里斯·威廉姆斯那样的大人物节目。我确信那两位会有帮助。但客观来说，如果你没有什么有趣或有价值的内容要说，即使上了那种播客，就像现在的YouTube一样，效果也会大打折扣。如果你的内容无聊或者没有提供信息，即使在克里斯·威廉姆斯的播客上也可能只有一万次观看。

It's very interesting. I like the fact that you were talking about how you did like these like private podcasts because it's not about going on some huge person like Joe Rogan or Chris Williams. I'm sure those two would help. But objectively, if you don't have anything interesting to say or anything valuable, even if you go on that podcast, like the way YouTube is now, it's gonna be way less effective. You could get 10,000 views on the Chris William podcast if it was boring or you're not informing people.

所以随着时间的推移，你逐渐找到了制作能获得观看量、吸引人、有趣内容的方法。我觉得这是你真正的技能。就像你学会了这种意图，你理解什么内容有效、什么无效，如何定位自己，如何呈现一切，以及以什么方式分享什么。嗯。所以我很好奇，在我解释这个观察时，你有没有想到什么关于这种方法的见解愿意分享？

And so you kind of just found this way over time that you know how to make content that just gets views, that's captivating, that's interesting. I feel like that's your true skill. Like you've learned this intention, you understand what content works and what doesn't, how to position yourself, how to present everything, and what to share in what way. Mhmm. So I'm curious, do you have anything that comes to mind as I explained that observation that you'd like to share on that approach?

比如，你喜欢什么，你坐下来只和你的团队做播客

Like, what do you like, you're sitting down to do a podcast with just your team

嗯。

Mhmm.

有没有某种意图？比如，你们会被要求讨论这些话题吗？我会说一些有争议的话吗？比如，在参加这些播客之前，你实际上会考虑什么？

Is there like an intention? Like, are you asked, like, we're gonna talk about these things? Am I gonna say something controversial? Like, what do you actually think about before you go into these podcasts?

以前，我们过去常常这样做，比如亚历克斯或玛拉会问我一个问题。但现在这些天，我们没有这样做了，因为事情是这样的：玛拉，我认识她十年了。亚历克斯和我，我们住在一起。我们基本上是最好朋友，所以我们之间有那种自然的默契。如果是我没有那种自然默契的人，也许我们可能不得不回到提问之类的方式。

Before, back in the day, we used to do it where like like Alex or Mara would like ask me a question. And now these days, we have no like, we just because the thing is like, Mara, I've known her for ten years. Like, Alex and I, like, we live together. We're like, we're basically best friends, so it's just that natural synergy between us. Maybe if it was someone who I didn't have that natural synergy with, maybe we would have to go back to asking questions and this and that.

那没什么错，但你知道，我也想澄清一点，当我在短内容上像个战术家时，对于坐下来做的播客内容，我不是战术家。它真的只是像两个朋友叙旧，是的，只是记录下来，然后顺其自然。

Nothing wrong with that, but you know, I I also wanna make it clear when I'm like a tactician and I'm not with our short form stuff, I'm not a like for the sit down podcast stuff, I'm not a tactician. It really is genuinely just like two friends catching up and yeah, and just having it recorded and then whatever comes from it comes from it.

好的。如果我们来谈谈策略师

Okay. If we're gonna talk tactician

嗯。我

Mhmm. I

想问问你的Instagram。当然。你在Instagram和品牌美学方面是如何运用策略的？你选择发布哪些内容并进行整合？我知道你从来——我要把这话记下来——我确信你从不摆拍照片。就像你不会刻意安排这些东西。

wanna ask about your Instagram. Sure. Where are you a tactician with your Instagram and your brand aesthetic and what shots you're putting and getting together? I know you've never, I'll put this on record, I know for a fact you don't pose for photos. Like you don't stage this stuff.

但你的品牌美学看起来非常协调。你所展示的内容以及你被感知的方式，在我看来，我认为这一定是刻意的。所以我很想听听你的见解，如果你能稍微炫耀一下。哪些是你可以居功的？

But like your brand aesthetic is so coordinated. And what you show and the way you have like how you're being perceived is very like in my opinion I know it has to be intentional. And so I'd love the insight on if you could flex a little on me. What can you take credit for?

说到我的Instagram，其实我觉得那是最缺乏刻意策划的案例。Ginny，我的主要Instagram账号就像是每三个月我才想起来，妈的，我在Instagram上有不少粉丝，我可能应该发点东西，然后我会在长途飞行中翻看相册，标记一些喜欢的照片，心想，哦酷，我就发个照片合集吧。

So with my Instagram, I actually think that's the worst case study of like intentionality. Like Ginny, my Instagram, my main Instagram is just like every three months I remember like, fuck. I have like some like a decent amount of following on Instagram, I should probably post and then what I'll do is I'll I'll you know, I'll be on a long flight and I'll just look through my camera roll and favorite some stuff and I'm like, oh cool, let me just you know post like a a photo dump.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我会说Instagram是我最不擅长的平台，因为它是实时的，就连我的故事我也很挣扎。我的团队会说，兄弟，你有50万的故事观看量，这是个很大的观众群，发点东西吧。我就觉得，哦天，因为我不能批量处理，你知道，像YouTube、LinkedIn、Twitter或其他平台，我可以围绕它们建立系统，但Instagram没有这样的系统让我发布日常生活。有趣的是，我其实是个很私密的人，尽管我公开露面，但我的日常生活我很保密。所以我明白你所说的美学是什么意思。我不认为这是策略性的，它一直只是我喜欢的东西。我的意思是，甚至胶片摄影，我大约六七年前开始真正迷上胶片摄影，超级投入，我自己亲自拍摄，我们收藏了很多徕卡、玛米亚和各种疯狂镜头。但我只是无聊，就研究并买了你能想到的几乎所有胶片相机，自学如何拍摄，然后我就喜欢那种美学和氛围，VHS也是同样的道理。

But I would say Instagram is the platform the worst with because it's real time even like my stories, I really struggle with my stories. My team is like, bro, you get like 500,000 story views like this is a big audience like post some shit and I'm just like, oh man, it's because can't batch it out, you know, with like YouTube and and and or YouTube and LinkedIn or Twitter or all these other platforms like I can like we can build systems around it like there's not really a system for me to like post my day to day life and I just like funny enough, I'm actually a very private person even though I'm public, I'm what I'm doing day to day, I'm very private. So I know what you mean in terms of the aesthetic. I don't think it's tactical, it's just always been like what I like. And what I mean by that is even just film photography, started getting really into film photography about six, seven years ago and I got super into it and I was shooting myself personally, we have a crazy collection of Leicas and Mamias and all these crazy lenses and all, but I yeah, I just was bored and I was just studying and buying like every single camera, film camera under the sun you can imagine and learn how to shoot personally myself, and then I was just like, I just like that aesthetic and I like that vibe and the same thing with like VHS.

我们几年前开始拍摄VHS录像带，因为我就是喜欢那种毫不费力的感觉。

We started shooting VHS a few years ago because I just like that feel of like effortlessness.

嗯。

Mhmm.

同样地，你知道，说到我的内容，我可以真心实意地说，我从未为iPhone拍摄而摆拍或做作。嗯。现在，因为你之前在镜头外问过我这个问题，比如我们在科莫湖的时候会做的一些事情。

And same thing, you know, when it comes to my content, I genuinely, I can say it was hand on heart. I have never set up or posed for like some an iPhone shot. Mhmm. Now, there's like because you asked you asked me this off camera. This stuff we do like for example, if we're we're in Lake Como.

是的。我们会觉得，好吧，很酷。显然，如果是制作级别的内容，我当然知道摄像机在那里。有时候我们会在内容上找点乐子，你知道，有时候我们不会太把自己当回事，我们会想，嘿，我们在这么酷的地方，不如来个电影式的开场。

Yeah. And we're like, okay cool. Like, clearly if it's like production grade stuff, like, I didn't not know the camera was there, like, of course, like And sometimes we try to have fun with the content, like, you know, sometimes we don't take ourselves too seriously, we're like, you know what, we're in this cool location, let's do like a cool cinematic intro.

嗯。

Mhmm.

显然，如果有专业摄像机在周围，你知道，亚历克斯可能会说，哦，我们用这个镜头拍这个，稍微玩一下。所以，是的，那算是手持拍摄中更专业的一面，亚历克斯知道，我不会让你抓到我摆拍。我会过我的生活，做我的事情，如果你拍到了一些，很好。如果没有，那也不是我关心的事。

And obviously, if there's like professional cameras around, you know, Alex would be like, oh, let's do this shot with this shot and just have like a little fun with it. So, yeah, that's kinda on the more professional side of things on the handheld stuff, like Alex knows, like, I'm just not gonna you're not gonna catch me posing for shit. For Yeah. I'm gonna walk through my life, do my life stuff, and then if you catch some stuff, great. If you don't, that's not really my concern.

然后在品牌意图方面，我只是觉得每个人都有自己独特又酷的东西，我认为如果你觉得某件事足够酷，其他人也会开始相信它。比如，我穿衣服的方式并不酷。现在，我想在过去的几年里它变得有点酷了，客观地说，我穿衣服的方式酷吗？不。但因为我感觉非常自在，别人也能感受到这一点，他们会想，哦，你知道吗？

And then in terms of the intentionality of the brand, I I just I just think everyone has their unique cool thing, and I think if you think something is cool enough, everyone else will start to believe it. Like, the way I dress is not cool. Now it's, I guess, kinda become cool in the last few years, objectively, is it cool the way I dress? No. But because I feel so comfortable in it, other people feel that and they're like, oh, you know what?

我现在被这个吸引了。或者客观地说，当我们拥有如此高清的相机时，回过头去买二十年前的相机，开始尝试用胶片相机拍摄，这合理吗？不，客观来看，这并不酷。而且五六年前我开始拍摄胶片并发布时，那也不酷吧？不，其实并不酷。所以我认为，无论你喜欢什么，只要是真实的、忠于自己的，别人最终都会跟上来的。

I'm drawn to this now. Or maybe objectively, does it make sense when you have we have such high definition cameras to go back and start buying cameras from twenty years ago and start trying to shoot on film cameras. No objectively, that's not cool and that wasn't like five five six years when I started, you know, shooting on film and posting that, was that cool? No, not really. So I just think whatever your thing is, if you just like, it's authentic and it's true to you, like, everyone else will catch on.

因为你一开始做的就是摄像之类的事情。是的。所以这几乎就像是你艺术的延伸。嗯。你就是喜欢拍这些电影般的场景，比如让保安为你打开G wagon的车门。

Because you were like, the first thing you'd ever do was like videography in a way. Yeah. And so it's almost just like extension of your art. Mhmm. So you just like doing these like cinematic scenes of you having a security guard open up your g wagon door

嗯。

Mhmm.

穿上你的西装，走向一栋大楼。看起来太他妈酷了。

Putting on your suit, walking to a building. It looks fucking sick.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不过我很好奇。我会继续深挖的。

So I'm curious though. I'm gonna keep digging.

是的，因为我忘了。我知道

Yes, because I forgot. I know

实际上很多这些都是相互关联的。嗯。就像你可以拥有这种奢侈。因为你在说，哦，我刚和Alex和Amar在播客上聊天，我们就随便聊聊。我们彼此很自在。

a lot of these actually play into each other. Mhmm. It's like you could you have the luxury. Because you're saying, oh, I just talked to Alex and Amar on a podcast and we just shoot this shit. We're comfortable with each other.

每个人都有两个可以这样做的朋友，但这不会获得和你一样多的浏览量。即使你说话是有意或无意的。就像人们会听你谈论任何事情，因为你很有趣。所以这就是建立Instagram的目的吗？让你被视为非常真实的生活，但同时从外部看，你是一个非常有趣的人，你是个异类。你就像一个22岁就赚了几千万美元的人。

Everybody has two friends where they could do that, but it's not gonna get the same amount of views as you. Even if you're intentional in what you're saying or not. Like people will just listen to you talk about anything because you're interesting. And so is that the purpose of building like Instagram makes you perceived as like this very like it's your true life but at the same time like the outside looking in you're like this very interesting you're an anomaly. You're like a 22 year old that's made tens of millions of dollars.

现在你24岁了，但当时你就是这样被看待的。所以这些可能非常非常好地相互配合。所以这就是你在科莫湖做那些电影式开场的原因吗？显然那样做很昂贵。嗯。而且你反正也会很想去科莫湖。

Now you're 24 but at the time like that's who you're being perceived as. And so those probably play into each other very very well. And so is that the reason that you do these like cinematic intros at Lake Como on a nice like obviously that's expensive to do. Mhmm. And you're gonna you would love to go to Lake Como anyways.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但就像在内容创作的现实中，你可以同时做这两件事。所以就像在Instagram上，我们要展示我生活中这个特定的方面，嗯。然后成为一个更吸引人的人，然后这会对整个品牌产生涓滴效应？这是不是一个思考过程？

But like in the reality of content creation like you can do both at the same time. And so is it like okay on Instagram we're gonna like show this specific side of my life Mhmm. To then become like more of a captivating person and then that like has trickle down effects across the entire brand? Is that like a thought process?

我只是觉得这一切都归结为你想如何定位你的品牌。就像显然如果你回头看我的早期内容，就是我他妈的在记录一切。现在，我个人觉得那很酷。是的。当我回头看我自己15、16、17岁时的旧东西，甚至18、19、20岁，不管是什么，我就是真实地分享我正在做的事情。

I just think it it all comes down to how do you wanna position your brand. Like obviously if you look back at my early content it's just me fucking documenting everything. Now, I think that's sick personally. Yeah. When I look back at my old shit of me, when I'm 15, 16, 17, I'm so, like, even 18, 19, 20, like, whatever it is, like, and I'm just sharing authentically, like, what it is that I'm doing.

嗯。因为我那时能利用的最大杠杆就是共鸣。嗯。所以我就像，我没有所有这些他妈的花哨汽车，我没有所有这些东西，但我只是一个有梦想的孩子，试图有所成就，那就是我的超能力。这是我经常纠结的事情。

Mhmm. Because that the biggest lever that I had to pull on then was relatability. Mhmm. So I'm like, I don't have all these fucking fancy cars, I don't have all this stuff like but I'm just a kid who's like has a dream, is trying to make something of himself and that was my superpower. That's something I I like I I grapple with a lot.

不，我没有那种感觉。我现在是个很难让人支持的人，我理解这一点，我很清楚哪些仗能打赢，哪些会输。比如德雷克和肯德里克的例子。

No, I don't have that Like, I'm a really hard person to get behind now and I understand that, like I'm not like, I'm very aware of what battles you can win and lose. Like for example, with Drake and Kendrick.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他试图挑起那场争斗是愚蠢的，因为无论如何都是双输的局面。当你达到某个位置时，就好像没人会试图支持你了。嗯。你必须接受这一点。我知道如今我是个很难让人支持的人，因为就像，好吧，你想成功，你成功了，你还想要更多该死的掌声吗？

He was an idiot for trying to take that battle on because no matter what, it was a lose lose. When you get to a certain position, it's like no one's gonna try to root for you. And Mhmm. And you just have to be comfortable with that. Like I know I'm a very difficult person to root for these days because it's like, okay cool, you wanted to make it, you made it, like what else do you do you want more fucking rounds of applause?

嗯。所以这就变成了你不再是弱者了。每个人都想支持弱者。所以那是别人拥有的超能力，而我没有。那是别人的优势，那种亲和力和支持弱者的感觉，而我不再享有这种好处了。

Mhmm. So it becomes this you're not the underdog anymore. Everyone wants to root for the underdog. So like that's a superpower that people have that I don't have. Like that's an advantage that other people have, that relatability and that like rooting for you know, for an underdog that I don't get that benefit anymore.

所以是的，也许你没有那种生活方式，但你有我没有的东西。嗯。另外我想澄清一下，就内容和那些事而言，你知道，无论如何我都想去科莫湖。不，那确实是一次商务旅行。

So yeah, maybe you don't it's it's tough because you don't have maybe like the lifestyle but you have something that I don't have. Mhmm. And also I just wanna make it clear in terms of like the content and stuff like that, like you know, I would wanna go to Lake Como either way. We no. That was genuinely a business trip.

我实际上必须去那里。我永远不会为了内容而去某个地方旅行。

Like I actually had to be there. Like I will never travel somewhere for content ever.

即使是现在的vlog也不行吗？

Even with the vlogs now?

从不。我是说，听着，让我想想我们上次拍的vlog。滑雪之旅，那就像是

Never. Every I mean listen, let me think about the last vlogs we we did. Ski trip, that was like

朋友聚会，没错。

Friends, yeah.

那是迟来的生日旅行，我本来无论如何都要去的。伦敦嘛，我绝不会为了拍vlog专门去一个地方

That was a late birthday trip, I was gonna do that either way. London yeah, I will never travel to a place for

我们得把vlog发出来。

We gotta get a vlog out.

是的，很多时候情况是，人们不知道我去某个地方的真正原因。嗯。人们没有意识到，我在幕后实际做的事情非常私密。我觉得另一点是，我不认为需要在社交媒体上展示一切。就像我最大的幸运是，我不会在社交媒体上展示我最重大的行动，除非事情已经完成、尘埃落定，比如说，这次就是

Yeah, it's just a lot of times what happens is people don't know the true reason I'm in a place. Mhmm. People don't realize, like I'm so private with what I actually do behind the scenes. I I think this is the other thing, I don't feel like you need to show everything on social media. Like my biggest blessing is I don't show on social media, or my biggest moves I don't show on social media unless it's like things are done, dusted and it, for example, like this is time

这是酝酿了很久的事情。

It's been a long time in the makes.

是的。完全正确。所以，希望这能让你稍微了解一点

Yeah. Exactly. So Yeah. Hopefully, does that give you a little bit of

我会一直问问题，直到我彻底弄清楚为止。因为我其实接受那个答案，嗯。但我认为我还能举出其他例子，来获得更详细的视角。

I'm gonna keep asking questions until I Just keep keep being super clear. Because I actually accept that answer Mhmm. But there's other examples I think I can like pull out to get a little more detailed perspectives on it.

所以，顺便说一句，我也想让大家知道，兄弟，你他妈太擅长你做的事了。我很感激。你非常出色，甚至从我们三年前的对话中就能看出，你注意到了一些别人都没注意到的东西。嗯。我觉得这显然就是为什么你在这个领域如此厉害，因为你深入挖掘的层次，大多数人可能只会看到表面，觉得‘哦，挺酷的，这就是展示的内容’，但你会质疑那么多层的东西，我认为这就是你为什么是营销大师的原因。

So because by the way, I also just wanna let people know like bro, you are fucking amazing at what you do. I appreciate it You're amazing at what you do and and even from our conversations three years ago, you're like, you notice things that no one else notices. Mhmm. And I think obviously that's why you're such a wizard in this domain because you just like the the the layers that you're going down, like most people would just see, okay cool, this is what's being shown but you you question things so many layers down and I think that's why you're the marketing wizard that you are.

谢谢兄弟。心理学是我的专长。我只研究这个，而你其实一直是我学习的榜样，你是最棒的。所以我一直非常关注那些对话。我想你是第一个告诉我应该在缩略图上下功夫的人。

I appreciate it bro. Psychology is my game. It's all I study so and you've actually been like who I have like you're the best at what you do. And so I've been very much paying attention to those conversations. I think you were the first person to tell me to put effort in my thumbnails.

就像我以前录视频时，只是随便在屏幕上放三样东西就完事了。而你告诉我，‘不，花哨的缩略图已经过时了，要的是简洁。’这从根本上改变了我对缩略图的看法，以及我如何能够发展我的频道。当然，还没达到你的水平。

Like I would literally record just like throw like three things on the screen and go. And you're like no, like flashy thumbnails are out. Like it's about simplicity. And that fundamentally changed the entire way I was thinking about my thumbnails and how I was able to grow my channel. Not the same level of you.

你和你的团队付出了如此巨大的努力。我也要夸夸你。你其实是个深度数据控，你喜欢业务中的效率，努力让业务更经济、更好，你会为某个东西2%的增长兴奋不已。那才是你真正关心的。其次是招聘。

You go through such thorough lengths with your team. I'll give you a compliment back. You are actually a deep numbers person, and you love like the efficiencies in business, and actually trying to make the business economical and better, and like you will nerd out about a 2% increase in something. Like that's actually what you care about. And secondly, hiring.

在你运营五个频道这么大的规模下，每月只录四个小时的内容是不可能的，除非你有一个超级牛逼的团队。我见过他们所有人，可以作证，他们是最敏锐、最认真、同样投入的人。直到我来这里，我才真正理解什么是文化。我能感觉到你的团队也有非常独特的文化，比如你们一起跑马拉松。所以在这方面，你也非常厉害。

Like it's not possible to only record four hours of content a month at your scale when you're running five channels and all this unless you have a fucking insane team. And I've met them all, can vouch there, the sharpest, serious, most serious people that are equally bought in. And I've never understood a culture until I came here. And I can tell that your team has a very distinct culture as well with like the marathons that you guys run. So props back to you for that game.

我想这就是射手座和摩羯座的区别，但在商业中同样有趣。那么回到正题，详细说说你是如何建立你的品牌的。我主要好奇的是，你做这些vlog，你的YouTube频道，现在有这么多不同的频道。你是否总是先考虑业务，先考虑你卖什么，然后围绕它选择内容风格？这是主要的方法吗？

I think that's the Thank Sagittarius Sagittarius Capricorn difference here, but equally fun in business. So back to actually going into the details of how you actually built your brand. I think the main thing I'm curious about is with these vlogs that you do, with these your YouTube channel, have all these different channels now. Do you always start like business first, like what you're selling first and then you choose a content style around that? Is that like the main approach?

是的。所以我觉得这取决于我们的目标是什么。比如从2022年到今年初，坦白说我想装傻充愣。我在社交媒体上把自己装傻到了极致，因为我想抓住18到25岁的市场。嗯。

Yeah. So I guess it just depends on what our goals are. Like for example, from 2022 up until like beginning this year, I wanted to play dumb quite frankly. Like, I've dumbed myself down to the tenth degree on social media because I was I wanted to corner the 18 to 25 year old market. Mhmm.

那是我的目标。占领那个市场，我觉得自己做到了。现在我的目标是转向25到35岁的市场，不是说22或19岁的人就不会看我的内容了，当然不是这样。我们在那个领域仍然有很多观众，但现在对我来说，我更愿意制作可能更技术性、更能吸引25到35岁人群的视频，即使第一个月只能获得30或40万观看量，而不是制作我知道肯定会更广泛传播、第一个月就能获得200万观看的视频。我对此很坦然，因为我们的业务目标已经转变了。所以主频道主要是为我们主要的教育产品套件服务的，这就是主频道的定位。然后我们有商业频道，因为比如你看主频道可能会觉得'好吧，这很有用，但不适合我现在的职业阶段'。然后你看商业频道就会惊呼'哇，这个人真有章法，他能把做的每件事都拆解得细致入微，有完整的标准操作流程、清晰的系统和纲要'。

That was my goal. Own that market and I felt like, you know, I accomplished that and then now my goal is we're moving from 20 to 25 to 35 old market, not to say that you know, people who are 22 or 19 aren't gonna watch my content, of course, that's not the case. We still have a lot of viewership in that in that domain, but like for me now, I'm comfortable you know, rather than get making a video that I know for a fact will get 2,000,000 in the first month that's more broad, I'm cool making a video that's more technical than maybe it speaks more to 25 to 35 year olds that will only get 300 or 400,000 views in the first month but I'm comfortable with that because our business goals have shifted. So the main channel really is for our main educational product suite, that's really what the main channel is for then we have the business channel because for example, you you would look at the main channel and you'd be like, okay cool, this is like useful but like not at my career stage. Then you look at the business channel and you're like, oh fuck, wow, this person's like, there is a method to the madness like he's he can break down every single thing he does in excruciating detail and with full blown SOPs and a clear system and an outline for everything.

而对于一个21岁刚起步做在线业务的人来说，那可能会让他们不知所措。所以我们有商业频道，有主频道，还有vlog频道。事情是这样的：2022年坐着拍视频、红蓝光、两个...

Whereas someone who's you know 21 and just starting their online business, that would be overwhelming to them. So we have the business channel, we have the main channel, and then the vlog channel. Here's what it is, it's in 2022 when the sit down, red light, blue light, two Two ks

两个。是的。

ks. Yeah.

你知道，那时候真是火得不得了，但我这个人总是会想两年后事情会变成什么样。我跟团队说，当时我们在行业顶尖，我只要坐下来写几个要点，花十分钟列个提纲，打开摄像头就能即兴讲出二十分钟的视频，剪辑成十四五分钟，轻轻松松就百万观看。嗯。太容易了。很多人会因此安于现状，但我已经在想两年后会是怎样了。我知道一切都有周期性，所以我感觉vlog的风潮会回归，因为即便是高度剪辑的内容。嗯。我可以说Iman Gaiji的剪辑风格是成功之道，但在当下的潮流中，那样已经行不通了，对吧？

You know, that was like absolutely crushing it, but I am a person where I'm always thinking what's things gonna look like two years from now. And I said to team like, we were at the like the top of the game in terms of like, I would sit down and write like bullet points, I would spend ten minutes bullet pointing, I would just turn on the camera, spit you know, spit a twenty minute video out, get edited down to like fourteen fifteen minutes, a million views just like that Mhmm. So easy. And a lot of people get comfortable and complacent there but I'm already thinking, okay, in two years what are things gonna look like and I know that everything's a pendulum So I knew that the vlog pendulum, I had a feeling that the vlog pendulum was gonna swing back because even the highly edited stuff Mhmm. I could sit here and I could say that Iman Gaiji editing style is like the way that you succeed and you crush it, but in today's the current meta, that's not how you crush and succeed, Right?

现在的潮流是原始、真实、未剪辑的，但我认为这种潮流大概还能持续一年左右。甚至在未来六到十二个月内就会开始略微消退。嗯。然后它会过时，但五年后又会回来。一切都有轮回。

The the meta today is raw, real, unedited, but I think that'll be the meta for about another year. Even it's starting to fizzle out slightly in the next six to twelve months. Mhmm. So every and but then it'll go out of style, but then five years it'll come back. Everything comes in and out.

所以我告诉团队，听着，我的预测是，在未来一年到一年半的时间里，vlog会重新流行起来。

So I told the team, listen, my prediction is, you know, over the space of the next year, year and a half, vlogs are gonna come back in.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那我们就做这个vlog频道吧。

So let's do this vlog channel.

你把它分拆出来，因为你在主频道上做了几个vlog，那个私人飞机的视频，对。或者那个合作视频什么的，然后你把它分拆给了Iman Godsey和Scripted。对。然后那是一个很早的尝试，结果果然那个频道开始获得数百万的观看量，Daniel Daylen出现了，还有其他一些vlogger，它真的成了一个现象。嗯。

That you spun it out, because you were doing a few vlogs on your main channel, the private jet one Yep. Or whatever, that collab, and then you spun it out to Iman Godsey and Scripted. Yep. And then that was like a very early bet, and then sure enough, you start getting millions of views on that channel, Daniel Daylen pops up, a few other vloggers, like it really became a thing. Mhmm.

而你正好赶上了那波浪潮。似乎YouTube上发生的每一波浪潮，你要么参与其中，要么就在它刚开始时就在场，成为它的一部分。所以这非常有趣。我确实有一个问题，因为看到你现在的最终状态真的很酷，但显然这超级令人望而生畏。就连我也是。

And you were like right there on that wave. It seems like every wave that's happened on YouTube you're either a part of or were there right when it started, like a part of it. So it's very interesting. I I do have one question because it's really cool to see your end state now but obviously like this is super intimidating. Like even me.

就像我，我做不到所有那些事情。我现在每周能在自己频道上做一个视频就已经很勉强了。所以我非常感兴趣的是，你之前说当你刚开始的时候，希望这不会暴露你，在镜头前。你在高中厕所里哭，因为你因为冥想而被欺负。

Like I am like I could not do all of that. I can barely make one video on my channel a week right now. And so I'm very interested in you were saying earlier like when you were just starting out, remember hopefully this isn't outing you, on camera. You were crying in the bathroom of a high school because you were getting bullied for meditating.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而你当时在生活的某个阶段非常挣扎。嗯。而你当时所说的关于共鸣的事情。就像你只是真实地记录你的生活，只是想和某人分享。然后你只是读书，每周读三本书，每周都读，然后分享你从这些书中学到的东西。

And you were like were struggling very much at a certain point in your life. Mhmm. And that that what you're saying about relatability at that time. Like you were just authentically recording your life and just like trying to share it with someone. And then you were just reading books, three books a week every single week and just sharing it, what you learned from these books.

当时有个疯狂的书架。那时候读书也不酷。但我记得在午夜播客上看到你。你那时候好像有点，怎么说呢，好像有点消沉。嗯。如果我没记错的话，在社交媒体上。

Had a crazy bookshelf. When reading was not cool this time either. But then I remember seeing you on the midnight pod. You kinda went go like you kinda went black around this time Mhmm. On social media if I remember.

就像你好像休息了一段时间之类的。然后你上了这个播客，午夜播客。你当时穿得特别好，戴着眼镜，翘着二郎腿，你好像通过信息赚了400万美元。而你才19岁左右。我当时就想，这他妈发生了什么？

Like you kinda took a break or something. And then you came on this one podcast, the midnight pod. Now you were like dressed really well, you had these glasses, you crossed your legs, you had like you made $4,000,000 through info. And you were like 19 or something. And I was like, what the fuck happened?

就像我好几年没看你了，我就想，那些书真的没白读。但后来你回来了，就像我看到的那样，你是在加杠杆。你一开始就像个15岁的孩子，和每个孩子一样经历着成长，只是你非常有野心地分享你学到的东西。然后你实际上开始了你的代理业务，并开始解释一些相关的内容。接着你真的赚了几百万美元，然后你回来了，像是进化版的自己。

Like I hadn't watched you in a few years, I'm like, those books really paid off. But then you came back with like you were like leveraging up is what I like saw it as. You started out as like this 15 year old kid who was just like going through it like every kid and as you were just really ambitious in sharing what you're learning. Then you actually started your agency and started explaining a little bit like that. Then you actually made a few million dollars and you like came back like evolved version of yourself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后一旦你赚了那400万美元，你投进了加密货币，基本上做了一笔1000万美元的交易，我猜你不是交易员，但像是实际投资我

And then once you made that $4,000,000, you put into crypto, made like a $10,000,000 trade basically, I guess you're not a trader, but like actual investments I

运气好。

got lucky.

是啊。但时机不错。就像你把所有的钱都投进了那个地方

Yeah. But a good time. Like you put all your money into That place

那是一段美好时光，是的。

was good time, yeah.

表现太棒了。但我看到你的方式是这样的——这并非一条直线路径，比如'哦，我只是不断创作内容然后积累'。而是你每增长一寸，就会利用这一点来帮助你在社交媒体上迈出下一步。你不断进化自己的内容风格。这是我远观的感受。

Killed it. But like I just see this way that you like It's not just like a straight path like oh, I just kept making content and compounded. Like you like, you would grow an inch, you would take that, leverage that to then help you make the next step up through social media. And you constantly evolve your content style. So that's like my perception from afar.

我很想听听你回顾每个阶段时是如何解释的，以及如何利用上一个阶段为自己未来的成长定位。

I would love to hear how you like if you thought back, how you explained each stage and how you leveraged the last one to position yourself to growth in the future.

是的。我想举个例子，那个午夜播客是在2022年11月。

Yeah. So I guess one thing just to like, for example, that midnight pod, that was November 2022.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那是2022年11月，我认为最主要的是显然我在进化，作为一个人在成长。从15岁开始上传内容到那时——差不多快要22岁了。显然，作为一个人你成长了很多，开始在经济上能够自立，可以买以前买不起的衣服，可以买以前买不起的手表。所以，那些年总体上是非常关键的成长期。

So that was November 2022, and I I think just the main thing is obviously I just evolve like I grow as a human. Like Yeah. To to to be uploading from 15 to like at that point, was just about to about to turn 22. Like, obviously, you just grow a lot as a as a person and you're you start, you know, doing okay for yourself financially and you know, you can start to buy clothes that you can afford before and you you can buy a wash that you couldn't have before. So like, I just started to also just like, those are very pivotal years In general.

作为一个男人。是的，坦白说作为一个人。所以我认为这可能是一个人们看到很多进化的原因。我不知道如果人们是从35岁看到42岁，是否还会觉得这种进化如此剧烈，因为坦白说那只是我作为一个男人的成长过程。

As a man. Yeah. As a person, quite frankly. So I think that's one thing that maybe you people saw a lot of evolution. I don't know if maybe if people had seen me from 35 to 42 if you would have seen it as an aggressive as an evolution because I was just like growing up as a man quite frankly.

但说实话，直到2022年之前，我对内容创作这件事完全没有认真思考过。即使在午夜播客时，我也没怎么想过。真正开始是在2022年4月我们在伦敦的时候，或者其实是那之前的几个月。有趣的是，我当时正准备关掉所有社交媒体。

But in terms of the up until 2022, honestly, I gave the content stuff no Mhmm. Thought process whatsoever. So even at the midnight pod, like, didn't really give it any thought. It genuinely was from like April 2022 when we were in London, or it it was a few months before that. Actually, funnily enough, I was gonna turn off all my social media.

当时我在瑞士克朗蒙塔纳，在我的一家软件公司合伙人夏莱的别墅里。

And I was in Crown Montana in Switzerland at my business partner, Chalet, one of my software companies.

这话说得真酷。

What a cool thing to say.

在我的一家软件公司里，我当时说，听着，我准备关掉所有社交媒体。我在YouTube上传视频已经六年了，说实话我觉得有点厌倦了。他却说，别这样。他说你现在处于一个绝佳的位置，就像你说的，你可以把它当成生意，吸引机会、吸引人才，现在放弃太可惜了，你应该做得比现在大十倍。对我这种人来说，如果做事半心半意，总会感觉不舒服——我猜我当时对社交媒体和内容创作就是这种半心半意的状态，没有把它当作真正的生意。顺便说一句，我希望大家明白，哪怕只是一个人，也没关系。

At one of my software companies, and I was like, listen, I'm gonna go, like, I'm gonna turn off all my social media. I've been uploading on YouTube for six years, and I was like, to be honest, I think I'm just kinda sick of it, and he was like, fuck that. He's like, you're in this incredible position where you can kinda as you said, you can be a business, you can attract opportunities and you can attract talent and you can attract all of like for you to like give up now, like no, you need to go 10 times bigger. And it was just something I never for me, I'm one of those people like if I'm half assing something, it never feels good to me and I I guess I was just kinda half assing the social media stuff and the content stuff and I didn't treat it like an actual business. And by the way, I want people to even if it's just them, doesn't matter.

即使你只是独自一人，仍然可以把它当作生意来经营，用商业思维来思考。不过我也要说明，有些创作者甚至是我们朋友中的个人，他们会打电话给我说想复制我的这套系统，但我告诉他们：听着兄弟，你是创意型人才。如果你做我做的事，会摧毁你的灵魂。所以你必须了解自己是哪种人。

Even if you're just a solo person, can still treat it like a business. You can still think of it like a business. Now, I also wanna make it clear, there's certain creators and like even individuals that we're friends with where they call me and they're like, I wanna implement this system that you have in place in this system, and I tell them, I'm like, listen, bro, you're you're creative. Like, you're you if you do what I do, it will crush your soul. So you have to know the kind of person that you are.

这点理解非常重要。

So important to understand.

你知道，就算你的频道粉丝增长十倍，你内心也会感到空虚，因为你是真正的创意工作者。我不是真正的创意工作者，我在某些领域有创造力，但我更注重实效——让我们建立业务，你知道我有很多系统要管理。是的，我承担很多责任，有很多人依赖我，我是这艘船的船长，必须确保我们始终朝着正确方向前进。所以对我来说，就像我现在制作的内容，我真的很喜欢，因为它更贴近我当前的职业阶段。

You know, like, you could blow up your channel by 10 times as many subscribers, but you'll feel empty inside because for you, you're you're a true true creative. I'm not a true true creative. I'm creative in some domains, but I'm a very pragmatic let's build the businesses and let's you know, I have a lot of System. Yeah, I have a lot of responsibility, I have a lot of people relying on me and I'm the captain of the ship and I have to make sure that we're always headed in the right direction. So I'm a person where let's say, I mean the content I'm making right now I really love because it is a little bit closer to where I am in my career stage.

但你知道，也许九个月前如果我还在做更初级的内容，我我我有点不得不——我对那种内容没那么热衷。你懂的，我总是试着回想15或16岁的自己，想想那些内容在当时对我会有多有用，甚至说实话对17或18岁的我也一样。但我这个人不管怎样都能坐下来创作内容。嗯。而有些人作为创作者会觉得那样太摧毁灵魂、太压抑了。嗯。

But you know, maybe even nine months ago if I was making maybe more beginner content, I I I kinda have to I'm not as enthusiastic about that. You you know, I always try to remember the 15 or 16 year old me and remember how useful that content could have been to me back then or even honestly the 17 or 18 year old me, but I'm a person that can sit down and create the content either way. Mhmm. Whereas there's some people who are creatives where like that is too soul destroying and soul crushing for them. Mhmm.

所以你还必须了解自己是谁，必须非常有自知之明——首先，要有一个有意识的个人品牌。拥有最多的订阅者、最多的粉丝，如果你没有商业后端来变现，那简直是最糟糕的事情。最糟糕的就是拥有一大批观众、很有名气、拥有庞大受众，却无法真正变现。这就是为什么显然我喜欢我们在WAP所做的一切。但除此之外，你也需要从性格层面了解自己是谁。

So you also have to know who you are and you have to just be very self aware like first things first, just have an intentional personal brand. Having the most amount of subscribers, the most amount of following, if you don't have a business back end to monetize it is like the worst thing ever. The worst thing ever is having a bunch of viewers and being well known and having this huge audience but no way to truly monetize it. That's why obviously I love everything we're doing on WAP. But outside of that as well, you just need to know who you are character wise.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如如果你是一个真正的创作者，那么也许专注于创作能滋养灵魂的内容；而如果你更务实一些，将其视为真正的媒体公司来推动业务发展，那么你可以用不同的方式对待它。

Like if you're a true true creative, then maybe create focus on creating content that nurtures your soul, whereas if you're someone who's really a little bit more pragmatic and you're building it for, you view it as a true media company to like fuel the businesses then you know you can treat it in a different way.

好的。那我很好奇。我不是投资型的人，你知道，我能赚钱，勤奋工作，把钱投入不同的资产，但我不喜欢占用心智带宽，因为它会占据我头脑中的创作空间。就像不得不考虑所有这些事情。而且总的来说，我在财务方面也不是最擅长的人。

Okay. So then I'm very curious. I am not an investment person you know, I can make money, be diligent, put it in these different assets and like I don't even like mental bandwidth because it like takes creative space from my mind. Like having to like think of all these things. And with that just like not the best person with finances in general.

你似乎一直对财务非常在行。但我好奇是否有过——因为你才24岁，这很疯狂，你20岁时就那么厉害。但是否有过一段时间——我很好奇，因为你在平衡——你可以过上好生活，所以显然在生活方式上花了很多钱。我知道你有这些规则，比如至少花掉收入的一定比例等等。但早期是否有过过度扩张而感到痛苦的经历？

You have always seemed like very spot on with finances. But I'm curious if there's ever been because you're you're also 24 which is insane how good you were at like 20. But has there ever been a time like where I'm just so curious because you're balancing you could live a good lifestyle And so you're obviously spending a lot of money in the lifestyle. Know you have these rules of spend at least a certain amount of what you make and everything. But was there ever an early on time where you overextended yourself and you felt like a pain from that?

我记得看到你在南非买的房子，那栋别墅，我简直他妈惊呆了。我当时想这家伙怎么可能负担得起。但也许这只是个随机例子，所以我才问这个问题。

I remember seeing the South Africa house that you got, the villa you got, I was just like fucking mind blown. I'm like there's no way this dude can afford it. But maybe that's just a random example of why that's where the question's coming from.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但有没有过这样的情况，你在很早就经历过并学到了这一点？比如18、19岁左右？还是说这一直以来就是你的处事方式？

But has there ever been a time where you've like experienced that where you learned that really early? Like at 18 or 19 or something? Or has that always just been your thing really?

我想我只是不喜欢冒险——这很有趣，因为大多数人会认为，哦，作为一个企业家，就是要冒巨大风险之类的。确实，我投入的资金规模很大，但对我来说这些都是经过计算的风险。嗯。我总是权衡利弊，尤其是作为初学者时，我真的不喜欢太多风险。我不喜欢那些风险很高或可能让你倾家荡产的生意。所以老实说，没有。我一直都相当谨慎。

I guess I'm just not a mass it's funny because most people would think like, oh, know, being an entrepreneur, massive risks this that and like, yeah granted I make fucking massive I mean, I make massive investments but for me they're always calculated risks Mhmm. And I always weigh up the upside, the downside, and especially as a beginner I really don't like too much risk. I don't like businesses where there's a lot of risk or you could wipe yourself out. So honestly, no. I've always been pretty diligent.

现在我知道很多人看我时会觉得，哦，他太鲁莽了，他享受生活。我只是觉得，我对自己把一部分收入用来享受生活毫无歉意，因为归根结底，我他妈再也回不到这些年了。我认为这也是人们有时会忘记的一点。嗯。这是一种平衡，你还会再拥有这些岁月吗？所以你要花多少钱？

Now I know a lot of people look at me and they're like, oh, he's so reckless like he enjoys his life. I'm just like, I'm unapologetic about I sign a certain portion of my income to just enjoy because at the end the day, I'm never gonna fucking get these years back. And I think that's what like sometimes people forget as well is Mhmm. It is this balancing act of like, are you ever gonna get these these years back? So how much do you spend?

比如对我来说，我实际上会有一种倾向，我会更倾向于在二十多岁时多花钱。嗯。因为我觉得——

Like for example, for me, I would actually have a propensity, I would lean more towards spending more Mhmm. In your twenties because I'm like A

100%同意。

100%.

因为与你五十多岁相比，二十多岁时花钱的性价比更高。比如，如果你二十多岁或三十多岁时每月赚1万，对我来说，这相当于五十多岁时每月赚20万，就它给你生活带来的实际价值或生活质量而言。所以是的，我想我只是在平衡或权衡这两件事，但我从未有过任何可能让我破产的事情，我生活中没有债务。嗯。我知道很多人——我有些朋友会说，兄弟，这太荒谬了。你知道，你可以用资产做抵押贷款，然后让钱为你工作等等。我只是觉得，我知道我可以，但我就是不知道，那种心安理得的感觉。

Because the the bang for buck you get compared to your fifties like for me, if you're making Let's say you're making 10 k a month in your twenties or your thirties, for me that's like making 200 k a month in your fifties in terms of like the actual value it brings to your life or the quality of life that you get from it. So yeah, I guess I just kind of balance up or weigh up those two things but I never had any things that could like wipe me out, I have no debt in my life Mhmm. Which I know a lot of people like I have friends of mine that are like, bro, that's ridiculous. That's like, you know, you could be you know, you should take a long board loan against your assets and then make that money work for you and this and that. I'm just like, I I I know I could but I just I don't know, like the peace of mind to know that.

在网上接受建议非常危险，尤其是那些四十多岁的老一辈人告诉你二十多岁时要存钱，因为这很可能是他们自己二十多岁时浪费了时间的投射，他们现在只是想赚钱。我认为我并不擅长理财，或者说财务方面，我只是对自己的能力和技能非常有信心，我也想趁年轻享受时光，因为这是你应该花钱和朋友出去玩、与人度假的时候，因为你拥有最大的自由。所以

It's very dangerous to take advice from people online especially older like older people in their forties telling you to save in your twenties because that's probably a projection of them like in their twenties that like they kind of wasted their time and they're just trying to make money. I think that I don't think I'm bad at finances like finances or finance I think I'm like just so confident in my ability and my skills and that I want to also just enjoy the time when I'm young and this is the time you're supposed to be spending money on going out with friends, going on vacations with people because you have the most freedom. And so

你知道，无论怎样，你拥有一套技能，这意味着你一生都有价值，你知道你永远会是一个收入创造者，坦率地说，也是一个价值创造者，无论是为你自己的事业，还是与他人合作，无论是什么。所以是的，我认为当你是一个自信的人，并且你知道自己拥有某些技能组合时，你会有一层信心，你知道自己永远不会破产。对吧。

You know no matter what you have a set of skills that means that you're valuable for the rest of your life and you know that you will always be an income generator and quite frankly a value generator whether that's for your own ventures, that's partnering up with other people, whatever it may be. So yeah, I think there is a level of confidence when you you have done in a like when you're just a confident person and you know you have certain skill sets, you know that like you're never gonna go broke. Right.

任何时候，我都可以轻松应对。我有这么多不同的技能。如果我回去在街上拍摄音乐视频，我可以赚一千美元，你知道吗？没错。并且学习背后的销售技巧。

At any moment, could just stomp my fingers. I have so many different skills. If I had go back to shooting music videos on the street, I could make a thousand dollars, you know? Exactly. And learning the sales behind that.

所以即使在... 我真的想问你这个问题。南非时期从远处看很有趣。看起来对你来说真的很开心。我想在这里提供一些背景，因为在我看来，你是一个偶像。你实际上从2014年到2024年记录了从零到1亿美元的过程。

So even in the I wanna really I really wanna ask you this. The South Africa era was an interesting one to watch from afar. Like it looked really fun for you. Have you I wanna give context here because you're not you were you were in my opinion you're an icon. Like you actually documented from '14 to a $100,000,000 by '24.

到2022年左右就达到了1000万。如果你真的回去看你的内容，简直太疯狂了。太酷了。但与此同时，你那么早进入这个领域，你无法真正模仿或抄袭任何人。而现在有很多人在你完成的每个垂直领域都有伊曼·加兹的克隆版。

And 10,000,000 by like '22. Like just crazy if you actually go back and look at your content. So cool. But at the same time you being so early to that you couldn't really there wasn't anyone to copy or mimic. Where a lot of people are there's so many Iman Gazzi clones now of every different vertical that you've accomplished.

但你似乎总是走在一条如此独特的道路上，这让它如此迷人。南非的那段时光是最吸引人的，因为那栋别墅太棒了。你在那里举办派对，太酷了。但与此同时，它仍然是你真实的、纯粹地记录那些对话的样子。

But it always seemed like you were on such a unique path and that's what made it so captivating captivating. And that South Africa air was like the most captivating thing because that villa was just sick. You were throwing parties in there. It was so cool. But at the same time, it wasn't it was also still like your raw, like genuinely just recording that conversation.

所以我很好奇，即使在那时，有没有过为了让你看起来更成功，或者展示你的成功而考虑买下这栋房子的第一次想法？从来没有。

So I'm curious, has there ever been a time even then that it was for you had the first, maybe I should get this house because it'll make me look or it'll show how successful I am physically. Never.

我知道有些人很难相信这一点，但举个例子，到2022年，我拥有1000万美元，嗯。流动资产，半流动资产，随便怎么说。绝对是流动资产。但我却没有一辆车。就像，人们赚到第一个30万时第一件事就是去买一辆车。

And I know that some people have a tough time believing that, but what's the first thing you give that example of by '22, had $10,000,000 Mhmm. Liquid, semi liquid, whatever. Liquid, for sure. And yet, I didn't own a car. Like, what's the first thing people do when they make their first 300 k is they go buy a

我买了一辆奔驰。

I bought a Mercedes.

顺便说一句，这没什么不对。我只是说，显然如果我想炫耀或为了镜头效果，当你积累到那种财富水平或财富的初步迹象时，你会去买炫酷的东西，你会去买超级跑车之类的，因为你知道那会吸引更多眼球、更多关注。加杠杆。是的。但我知道那对我来说不真实，即使到今天，人们总是问我，你会买这辆超跑或那辆超跑吗？老实说，我只是不在乎。

You know, by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying like, clearly if I want to flex or I wanted to like do stuff for the camera, when you when you've accumulated that level of of of wealth or small inklings of wealth, you you go buy you you're flashy, you go buy supercars this that because you know that that's gonna drive more eyeballs, more attention Leveraged up. Yeah. But I just knew it was inauthentic to me and like even to this day like, you know, people ask me all the time, like, are you gonna buy this hypercar or that hypercar? Like, I just don't care quite frankly.

就像，我只是觉得那对我不真实。我不知道，也许有一天我会觉得它真实了并且更投入其中，但就像，我不知道，我只是喜欢我喜欢的。而且我认为人们能感受到这一点。

Like, I just don't it would just be inauthentic to me. Like, I don't know, maybe at one point I'm just like, maybe it is authentic to me and I get more into it, but like, I don't know, I just like what I like. And and I think people feel that.

有一本书吗？对我来说最酷的是你在十几岁时读了《现实转译》。是的。我三年前读了那本书，从那以后，我觉得那是我读过的最重要的一本书。书里的一切，我立刻付诸实践。所以现在，在这个时刻，感觉超级诡异。

Was there a book that's The coolest thing to me is you read Reality Transurfing when you were a teenager. Yeah. And I read that book three years ago, And ever since then, I'm like, that is the single handed most important book I've ever read. And everything I read in that book, immediately put into practice. So now I'm like, at this moment, it's like super trippy.

所以我看到你18岁时读了那本书，我现在觉得一切都说得通了。还有其他类似的书吗？或者任何帮助你理解独立思考、为自己思考的书？因为自我意识到这一点并不是一件平常的事。是的。

And so I saw you read that at 18, I'm like, it all makes sense right now. Were there any other books like that that like Or just any books in general that helped you understand individual thought, like thinking for yourself? Because that's not like a normal thing to just become self aware of. Yeah.

所以大约在我14、15岁的时候，我读了《现实转译》。

So around When I was like 14, 15, I read Reality Transurfing.

太疯狂了。

That's crazy.

是啊。我是说，那本书内容很密集，你得反复读，我每隔几年就会重读一次，因为它真的很厚重。是的，内容非常密集。

Yeah. I mean, that book's dense, you have to re like I reread it every couple years because it's like Dense. Yeah. It's it's very dense.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有类似《沉思录》，马可·奥勒留的作品

And stuff like that, Meditations, Marcus Aurelius

嗯。

Mhmm.

那基本上就像是我的圣经。

That that was basically like my bible.

而那在两年前成为一种流行趋势。你早在八年前就已经在读了。

And that was a trend like just two years ago that became a trendy thing. And you were on that like eight years ago.

是的。我觉得你总是必须

Yeah. I think you just always have to

就像，你就是一个完美的例子。你有

like, you're a perfect example of it. You have

你知道，比如说，你学习过，也看过我做的一些事情，因为你会想，好吧，他生活的某些特定部分，我想要取得类似的成果，但你没有停留在表面，而是深入挖掘，你会想，到底是什么让他达到了那个境界？我就是这么做的，我会尝试超越《思考致富》、《人性的弱点》这些当然是很棒的入门书。我试着深入几个层次，去探究，好吧，那么人们在读哪些更严肃的东西？或者人们在关注哪些更严肃的资源？所以，是的，我从很小的时候，我想我就一直明白，人最大的风险来自自身。

you know, let's say for example, you've studied and you've looked at some of the stuff I've done because you're like, okay, there's, you know, specific parts of his life that, you know, I would like to achieve similar results, but then you you don't go service level, you go deeper and you're like, okay, what actually got him to that point? And I did that, like I would try to go beyond the Think and Grow Rich, How to Win Friends and Influence People which of course are like amazing gateways. I try to go a few levels down and go, okay cool, where is what's this what's the more serious stuff that people are reading? Or what's the more serious resources people are looking at? So, yeah, I just from a young age, I I guess I always just knew people are the biggest risk to themselves.

嗯。就像，如果我思考生活中的风险，通常最终都归结为人；对生意而言最大的风险，通常是领导生意的人。所以我就知道我需要学习自我认知。我需要学习情绪控制。

Mhmm. Like, if I think about, like, the risks in life, it's usually it all comes down to a person or biggest risk to business. It's usually the people who are leading the business. So I just knew that I need to I needed to learn self awareness. I needed to learn emotional control.

我需要学习——说实话，我认为这是我最大的超能力。我知道如何把自我放在一边，比如装傻。我知道如何... 嗯... 闭嘴。我知道如何忽略一些事情。

I needed to learn I'd say that's, to be honest, my biggest superpowers. I know how to put my ego aside and play dumb, for example. I know how to Mhmm. Shut up. I know how to ignore things.

我知道如何——即使私下里我的感受并非如此，或者，你知道，我知道如何对一个我确信恨我或试图毁掉我的人微笑，但我心里明白，而这就是你最终击败那个敌人的方式。就像，我只是学会了战争的艺术。嗯。战争不是挺起胸膛吹嘘自己他妈的是个狠角色，吹嘘自己多么厉害。那些不是真正的战略家。你知道，真正的战略家，是的，他们是沉默的。

I know how to even if behind the scenes that's not how I'm feeling, or you know, I know how to smile at someone that I know for a fact hates me or is trying to destroy me, but I know that and that's how you end up defeating that enemy. Like, there's just I learned the art of war Mhmm. And and war is not puffing your chest up and talking about how you're a fucking gangster and talking about how, you know, you're such a tough guy. Like, those aren't the real tacticians. You know, the real tacticians, yeah, they're silent.

所以，从年轻时就学习策略和战争的艺术，我认为这非常有益，尤其是当你开始面临更多诱惑，开始... 你知道，你开始成为自己最大的风险——在我那个年纪就赚到相当可观的收入，你最终会变成一个风险。幸运的是，我没有像其他许多处境类似的人那样自我毁灭。所以，如果有一件事我要为自己鼓掌的话，那就是成功地度过了那段坎坷的旅程。

So that learning strategy and learning the art of war from a young age, think that was very beneficial and especially as you start to get more temptations coming your way and you start to get more you know, you start to become the biggest risk to yourself which is you know, earning a decent amount of money at the age that I did, you end up becoming a risk. And luckily, I didn't implode like a lot of other people in my situation. So I think if there's one thing I'll give myself a pat on the back for it's it's managing to get through that bumpy ride.

而在你心中兜售一个不属于你自己的信念，是一件非常危险的事情。

And selling one belief in your mind that isn't yours is a very dangerous thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我观察到的一个相关性是，所有在青少年时期就赚了几百万美元的年轻人——这样的人不多，但确实有一些——他们似乎都学会了以非常正确的方式独立思考，正确地构建信念。嗯。该相信什么，不该相信什么。并且他们拥有正确的思维方式。

And a correlation I've seen with all the young kids who have made millions of dollars in their teenage years, not a lot of them, but the few that have. It seems like they learned the exact right way to think for themselves very The right way to frame beliefs. Mhmm. What to believe, what not to believe. And there's the right actual like mental.

嗯。

Mhmm.

真正让我印象深刻的是，我是在天主教环境中长大的，从小就了解上帝和宗教等等，但实际上直到接触了《现实转导》之后，我才从根本上理解了它。《现实转导》以一种符合我思维方式——非常分析性、非常从物理学角度看待事物实际运作的方式——向我阐述了同样的概念。书中还经常引用宗教和圣经。这有点像是在翻译不同的诠释。

And what really stood out to me is I was raised Catholic, I was raised aware of God and religion and all these things, and I actually never fundamentally understood it until after Reality Transurfing. Reality Transurfing spoke the same concept to me in the way my brain works. Very analytically, very from a physics perspective of how this actually works. And then they reference religion and the bible in there quite regularly. And it's like kinda translating like interpretations.

就在那时，我才真正理解了与上帝的关系是什么。从那以后，我变了。我以前是个非常焦虑的人，总是担心，总是有压力，总觉得一切都要由我来掌控。而那个时刻让我学会了放手，并设定：这就是我对自己的愿景，我相信这是可能的，这就是我要努力的方向，然后看看会发生什么。

And that was the point where like I truly understood like what a relationship with God was. And ever since then, it's like I was a very high anxiety person, always worried, always stressed, always feeling like I was in control. And that moment just let me let go and set like this is what I see for myself. I believe this is possible. This is what I'm gonna work towards and I was gonna see what happens.

现在，我不再是试图强行让世界按我的意志运转，而是更像坐在这里，等待着那边的某种声响。就像上帝的一个征兆，告诉我这就是你的道路，试图为你指明一扇门。这是你在我第一次见到你时就非常坚持的观点，而我当时完全忽略了它。你一直在说上帝。

And now it's like instead of trying to force myself onto the world, I'm kinda like sitting here just like waiting for like a sound over there. It's like a sign from God like this is your path. Trying to like show a door for you. And that's something that you were like very adamant on when I first met you and I just like totally overlooked it. Like you kept saying God.

我就在想，这难道是为了在公众面前塑造好人形象的一种公关手段吗？

I'm like is this some like PR thing to look like a good person on

互联网上？

the internet?

但现在亲身体验并逆向思考，听到你这么早就读到这些，我觉得这确实很有道理。因为如果有一件事能从根本上改变你的人生方向，在我看来那就是寻求那种关系。嗯。无论你需要用什么框架来理解‘上帝’这个词，无论它是什么，但去寻求、尝试找到它。这对我来说非常有意义。

But now like experiencing that and then reverse engineering it, hearing you read that so early, I'm like, this actually makes so much sense. Because if there's one thing that you could actually do to fundamentally change the direction of your life, it would be seek that relationship in my opinion. Mhmm. Whatever and whatever framing you need for the word God, whatever that is, but seek what try to find that. That makes a lot of sense to me.

嗯。是的。嗯，我只能说，是的。你有这些洞察力真的很美，而且你——正如我之前说的，我三年前第一次注意到，你是一个非常深刻的思考者。

Mhmm. Yeah. Well, all I can say is that is yeah. It's beautiful you have those insights and you're I I as I said, I noticed it first time three years ago, you're a very deep thinker.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你是一个非常、非常深刻的思考者。

You're a very, very deep thinker.

我知道我们在镜头前不谈这些，所以我至少想向你承认这一点。因为这非常有趣，而你是我能够——你在我们私下对话中承载这个话题的分量，实际上让我看得更深入了一些。所以非常、非常感谢你。现在，我要转向完全相反的方向，这——当然。这只是我个性的一个证明。

I know we don't speak on these on camera, so I wanna acknowledge that to you at least. Because it was very interesting, and you were a part of me being able to like like the weight of how you held that in our private conversations like actually made me look a little deeper. So very, very grateful for that. Now, I'll go to complete opposite direction and this is Sure. Just a testament to my personality here.

另一件事是我从你那里学到了很多关于通过Instagram认识女孩的方法。我早就想问你这个问题了。当然。因为你有一套非常有效的系统，我不想给你惹麻烦。我知道你现在处于人生的不同阶段，但当时这对我们俩来说都是个热门话题。

Another thing is that I've learned a lot from you was getting girls through Instagram. I was so ready to ask you about this. Sure. Because I because you have in a very effective system, and I don't wanna get you in trouble. I know you're in a different phase of your life, but at the time, it was quite a hot topic for both of us.

说到我深入分析的性格，你当时已经形成了一套系统，或者至少有一些非常明确的Instagram策略。你非常反对约会软件。你说Hinge和Bumble都不行。那些软件上没有好人。Instagram才是真正的约会软件。

And it was the most speaking of me being deep and analytical, you had a system down or at least some very clear approaches to Instagram. You were very anti dating app. You were hinge and bubble. No good persons on those things. Instagram is the dating app.

不要在车前拍照。不要这样炫耀你的手表。

And don't post a picture of you in front of a car. Don't show off your watch like this.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你有非常具体的精妙技巧。所以如果你愿意讨论你的Instagram策略，特别是在你以结识女性为目标的那个阶段的做法，我会很感兴趣。

You had very specific subtleties. And so I would love if you were open to discussing your approach to Instagram if you are in this phase of your period where getting a female is your objective.

好的，当然。让我想想。老兄，我不知道。我感觉自己像个他妈的老爷爷。

Yeah. Sure. I mean, let's see. Man, I don't know. I feel like a fucking grandpa.

最近我感觉自己像个大叔。是的。显然，当涉及到个人品牌时，它可以有多种发展方向，无论是商业方面还是约会生活。所以我觉得，你知道吗，昨晚我甚至在一个会议上和一个人聊天，我们谈到迈阿密的约会市场，他说，是的，我知道，因为有时候我的展示方式可能会吸引

I feel like a uncle these days. Yeah. Obviously, it's I guess, when your your personal brand, it can go, many ways, whether that's business, whether that's your dating life. So I just think, you know, I was even at in a meeting last night with an individual and you know, were talking about the dating pool in in Miami and he's like, yeah, I know because sometimes maybe the way I present myself, it's can attract

嗯。

Mhmm.

我不想吸引的那些人。所以我认为，当涉及到你在网上发布的内容时，你必须非常清楚你希望什么样的女性在你身边。显然，有些东西，比如那种，你知道的，某些女性会被攻击性的内容吸引，听我说，如果你身边有一辆车，那是一回事，我认为是这样的，如果有一辆车在旁边，当然，那是一回事，但如果你在一辆车前摆拍，嗯。基本上在任何东西前摆拍都清楚地表明这东西对你来说不寻常。而如果它只是在你周围环境里，你只是很随意。

People that I don't wanna attract. So I think just when it comes to your what you put out online, you have to be very cognizant of like what kind of women would you like around you. Obviously, there's certain things like the sort of, know, the sore women that will be attracted to like aggressive listen, there's one thing if you're like a car is around and I think that's the thing like if a car is around, of course, it's one thing but like if you're posing in front of a car Mhmm. It posing in front of anything basically makes it clear that this thing is not normal to you. Whereas if it's just in your surroundings, you're just it's nonchalant.

你知道，这表明这是你习惯的东西。所以我认为这取决于你想吸引什么样的个体。对我来说，即使你看我的社交媒体，我在Instagram上发布了很多傻乎乎的照片，我会发布一些难看的自拍或者有趣的零碎东西，来展示我的

You know, and it it shows that it's something that you're accustomed to. So I think it just depends what you what kind of individual you're trying to attract. Think for me, even if you look at my social media, I post a lot of just dumb photos on my Instagram, I'll post like ugly selfies or like funny like bits and bobs that kinda show my

嗯。

Mhmm.

个性，因为我不想，是的。我只是希望人们看到我时会觉得，好吧，他还是个真人。嗯。就像我不想要这种过度，我不喜欢人们过分美化我，或者认为我像，我他妈就是个普通人，和其他人一样。嗯。

Personality because I don't want like yeah. I just I just want people to like look at me and be like, okay, he's still a real human. Mhmm. Like I don't want this like overly I don't like when people like glorify me too much or think that I'm like like I'm just a fucking normal person just like anyone else. Mhmm.

好吧。然后在Instagram方面，我不知道。我可能不是最好问的人，因为听我说，我从不私信别人。

Alright. And then in terms of Instagram, I don't know. I'm probably not the best person to ask because I Listen, I don't slide in DMs ever.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我不记得上一次我……不，其实我知道我上次私信别人是什么时候。她叫什么来着？Sexy Red？

I can't remember the last time I ever No, actually, I know the last time I slid in the DMs. What's her what's her name? Sexy Red?

是……是她很火的那个？

Is is that She's popping.

那个说唱歌手，对吧？

The rapper. Right?

超火。

Banging.

对，对。我们当时在热火队比赛场边，然后兄弟们就说，哦，那是Sexy Red。我当时想，Sexy Red他妈的是谁？这大概是两年前的事了。

Yeah. Yeah. We were at we were at courtside at heat game and like the boys were like, oh, that's Sexy Red. I like, who the fuck is sexy red? This is like two years ago or something.

然后，然后他们就给我看，还说，兄弟，你应该去私信她。所以我就发了私信，但没收到回复。

And, and then, yeah, they showed me and they were like, bro, you should you should slide in. So, yeah, slid in, but no response.

靠。本来可能会发生点什么呢？

Damn. What could have been?

嗯，我这几年来在私信方面的成功率其实并不太高。但是，说实话，如果你处在某个位置，就会有很多人主动联系你。嗯，很多女性会联系你。就像我说的，我觉得目前这在我生活中并不是什么优先事项。

My my my success rate isn't super high on on the DM slides in the last few years. But, yeah, I just think listen. If I'm being entirely honest, if you're in a certain position, you just kinda and you end up getting a lot of people reaching out to you Mhmm. A lot of women reaching out to you. As I said, I guess currently that's not really a big priority in my life.

嗯。我只是更喜欢……我喜欢看朋友们玩得开心，有点像通过我的朋友间接体验生活。

Mhmm. I just prefer my I I like seeing my friends have fun like I kind of live vicariously through my friends.

你给特里斯坦什么建议呢？算是又一个反面例子？你给你单身的朋友什么建议？他们该怎么经营自己的Instagram？

What advice are you giving Tristan for I guess another bad example? Advice are you giving to one of your single friends? How should they run their Instagram?

我觉得现实点说，显然我处境比较特殊，有这么多人联系我。如果你主动联系别人，再次强调，尽量展现你的个性。不要试图摆拍，我觉得那种做作的照片效果不会很好。

I think realistically, Obviously, I'm in a bit of a unique position where I'm just getting so many people reaching out to me, if you are reaching out to people, once again, just try to show your personality. Don't try to the posey photos I don't think are gonna work very well.

把自己展现出来。

Giving yourself away.

是的。而且那样还会吸引到不对的人。坦白说，我觉得要展现个性，关键是没有放之四海皆准的方法。有趣的是，很多女性看我的内容会说，他不是我喜欢的类型。可能对某些人来说我太这样了，或者对某些人来说我不够那样，这都没关系。

Yeah. It's also gonna attract the wrong sort of person. I just think quite frankly, I said show your personality and the thing is there's no one size fits all. Like there's a funny enough, there's a lot of women that will look at my stuff and be like, he's just not my type of person, you know. And maybe I'm too much of this for someone or I'm not enough of this for someone like and that's fine.

嗯。你本来就不需要适合所有人。但总会有一部分人，如果你的内容能以真实自我的方式呈现，同时投入一些时间和心思——当然我也不傻，比如我发动态合集的时候，还是会思考一下，好的，这样不错。

Mhmm. You're not meant to be for everyone. But there's gonna be a subsection of people that if you have your content curated in a way which is true to you, but also like you can put some time and thought into it. Like, of course, I'm not dumb. I'm like, when I post my story dumps, I'm still like I do think, okay, cool.

这表示这个。你。

This signals this. You.

是的。谢谢你。

Yeah. Thank you.

当然，这其中有个要素是，你得弄清楚整体的氛围是怎样的。

Of course, there's an element of like, you have to figure out what's the general vibe.

没错。我在私人飞机上，但我正躺着，帽子盖在头上，你可以看到右侧的皮革，也许那里有个标志，因为女孩们会注意这些细节。

Yeah. I'm on a private jet, but I'm laying down with my hat over my head, and you can see the right leather, maybe there's a logo right there, because girls are looking at the details.

这就对了。这就对了。所以，是的。你知道，但另一方面，假设你有一堆故事或照片，里面有很多可能会显得太装的东西。好吧，那就加一张丑爆的自拍，或者加一些你和狗狗在一起的，或者类似的东西。嗯。

There we go. There we go. So Yeah. You know, but but on the flip side, let's say you've got like a, you know, a a story dump or a photo dump and you've got like multiple of those things that could come across as too shawky. Okay, well then throw in like a fucking ugly selfie or throw in something like with you with like your dog or like Mhmm.

就是那种让人觉得，好吧不错，这个人并不自命不凡

Something that's like, okay cool, this person's not like a stuck up

肤浅的自恋狂。如果他们看到你做鬼脸的照片，他们就会觉得。

Superficial narcissist. If they see a picture of you making a goofy face, they're like.

是啊。他们就会觉得，哦，好吧，酷。就像，他并不是在试图他妈的装模作样

Yeah. They're like, oh, okay, cool. Like, he's not trying to fucking like

普通的女孩。是的。

The normal girl. Yeah.

没错。他还是保持着那种普通的幽默感。

Yeah. He's still like a normal humor.

他就这样，是啊。

He's like, yeah.

因为我真的不认为，我不觉得有任何女生会喜欢一个把Instagram看得太认真的男人。绝对是危险信号。我觉得就像，兄弟，说到底，你知道，这没那么深奥。而我希望人们仍然能感受到这种氛围。当然，我的社交媒体传递了一种信息，你知道，它显然有各种迹象，反映了我的思维方式，但我也希望人们知道，我不是那种他妈的自视过高的人。

Because I I just don't think anyone I don't think any female is like a guy that takes his Instagram too seriously. Red flag for sure. I think it's just like, bro, at the end of the day, like, it's, you know, it's not that deep. And I think that's like the thing I want people to still get the vibe. Like, of course, my social media sends a a sort of message and, you know, it's clearly, it has indicators and it it says something about my brain, but I also want people to know like, I'm not a person that fucking takes myself too seriously.

嗯。就像，我敢肯定你认识一些社交媒体圈的人，他们会因为一点小事就他妈的大惊小怪

Mhmm. Like, I'm sure you know some people from the social media space, it's like, if one thing is wrong, they fucking

他们会来找你麻烦。

They'll come after you.

兄弟，他们会来找你的，你知道的。他们会他妈的要求你下架你的播客。你知道我在说什么

Bro, they'll come after you, you know. They'll fucking ask you to take down your podcast. You know what I'm talking

吧？嗯哼。

about? Uh-huh.

兄弟，就像，你懂我意思吗？就像，他们有着脆弱的自尊心。嗯哼。你知道，对我来说，如果我他妈今天头发糟糕，除了他们，就像，你是个男人。而我，我不是。

Bro, like, you know what mean? Like, they're they got fragile fragile egos. Mhmm. You know, for me, if I'm having a fucking bad hair day, other than they, like, you're you're a man. Like, I'm I'm not.

所以，是的，我认为你可以拥有这些，比如高价值信号和高价值指标，但仍然不要把自己太当回事，因为我觉得那样会让你变得有点让人反感。

So, yeah, I think it's you can have these, for example, high status signals and and high status indicators, but still don't take yourself too seriously because I think that's when you kind of become a little like repulsive to people.

但我真的很喜欢你这一点，你有意识地关注你发布的内容是如何被人们感知的。而且这不是一种 manipulative（操纵性）的方式，就像，好吧，不想显得像个混蛋，因为我本来就不是混蛋。所以我要确保融入一些搞怪有趣的元素，表明我没有太把自己当回事。是的。你说过的一句话让我印象深刻，就是你希望你的Instagram展示出和你一起体验生活会是什么样子。

But I really like the fact that you are like, you're conscious of like what you're putting out is how people are perceiving that. And then this is not like a manipulative way, like, okay, don't wanna come off like an asshole because I'm not an asshole. So let me make sure I blend in some like goofy fun, like I'm not taking myself too seriously. Yeah. The one thing that you said that stuck with me was that you want your Instagram to show what your life would be like to experience with you.

所以你的生活就只是整天坐在法拉利前面拍照吗？还是你的生活会是，你知道，在科莫湖和五个朋友一起欢笑，她的朋友们也在周围，只是一个很棒的环境。这大概是我听过的最好的建议了。就是这样。不过你有什么要说的吗？

And so is your life just gonna be sitting there in front of Ferrari's all day on photo shoots? Or is your life gonna be, you know, at Lake Como with five of your friends laughing, there's her friends are around, it's just a good environment. That was probably hands down the best advice I'd ever heard. And so there you go. But do you have something to say?

是的。我刚想说，你也得——也许这话可能被误解——但就像训练你的朋友们怎么拍照。

Yeah. Was just gonna say also like you kinda have to maybe this could get taken in the wrong way, but like train your friends on how to take photos.

确实如此。我女朋友经常这么提醒我。

Facts. My girlfriend lets me know that all the time.

就像你得训练自己，反之亦然。你得学会如何给朋友拍好照片，因为你知道，说到底，我们每个人都有一个个人品牌，不管我们喜不喜欢。问题是这个品牌是在帮你还是在拖你后腿？所以即使是我和我的朋友，大概四五年前，我们还会互相偷拍，但那种摆拍的姿势对我来说是最让人反感的。嗯。

Like you have to train your and vice versa. Like you have to learn how to take good photos for your friends because like you know, if you guys are at the end the day, we all do have a we all have a personal brand whether we like it or not. Just is it working for you or is it working against you? So like even me and my friends, this is like four like five, six years ago, I we would still like take photos of each other's like but when we weren't looking, like that's like for me the the most like repulsive thing is like a posing photo. Mhmm.

当然，听着，如果你是为了纪念某个时刻拍照，那又是另一回事了，但我指的是那种刻意摆拍，想着‘哦，这拍出来会超酷’，比如那种硬核风格。也许如果你是在拍胶片或者在某些场景前拍酷照会不一样。这也不是说……

Now of course, listen, if you're taking a photo to commemorate a moment or this or that, like it's a different story, but I mean like posing thinking like, oh, this would be a sick shot for like tough like, you know, Maybe it's different if you're doing like I don't know. That's not to say if you take a film photo or a cool photo in front of whatever There's an

有一种美学在里面。是一门艺术。是的。构图。没错。

aesthetic to it. It's an art. Yeah. Blocking. Yeah.

方方面面都是。

Everything.

是的。没错。正是如此。有一种特定的氛围感。

Yeah. It's Yeah. Exactly. It's it's There's a certain there's a certain vibe.

必须是你自己的风格。是的。归根结底，必须是你自己的东西。

It has to be you. Yeah. At the end of the day, like, has to be your thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就像，你的电影感场景可能源于你七年前就对电影感兴趣的事实。

Like, your cinematic scenes probably originate from the fact that you were interested in film seven years ago.

是的。百分之百。

Yeah. A 100%.

你的审美，那种VHS风格，你实际上有一排古董相机。你对摄影艺术很着迷，这一点很明显。但接着你又会直接从iPhone里倒出一堆照片，都是你真实的经历或随性的搞笑瞬间。这是一种融合，但至少我认为你明白它会如何呈现，而不是盲目尝试。最糟糕的是模仿别人。

Your aesthetic, the VHS, you actually have like a row of like antique cameras. Like, you're into the art of photography. So that shows. But then you'll just do a photo dump from your iPhone that's just like your genuine experiences or casual goofiness. And it's like this blend, but at least I think you understand how it's gonna be coming across and not just like blindly try The worst thing is to copy somebody else.

嗯。就像这个人觉得伊曼的故事或帖子很棒。他因为Instagram做了所有这些事，让我也照搬吧。嗯。

Mhmm. And just like this guy has Iman's stories or posts are awesome. He got all the he does all these things because of his Instagram. Let me just copy that. Mhmm.

我认为正是那种独特性和真实性展现出来，并且肯定能通过镜头感受到。

Like I think it's the uniqueness and the true to you that comes out and that's what's felt through the camera for sure.

是的，没错。你得找到适合你的方式，不管是复古风格还是别的什么。我认为当你找到自己的风格时，人们就会自然而然地被吸引，并且非常欣赏它。无论那对你意味着什么，我是说——

Yeah. Exactly. You gotta find what works for you, whether that's like retro look, whether that's and and I think when you find your style, people just like flock to it and they appreciate it so much. And whatever that is for you, I mean

我还没找到，但我打算训练Cam、Steven和Hunter开始互相拍照。就为了兄弟们。因为我们确实需要在这方面提升水平。你有没有共鸣过某个特定的电影角色？嗯。

I haven't found it yet, but I'm gonna be training Cam, Steven, and Hunter to start taking photos of each other. Just for the homies. Because we definitely need to up our game there. Have you resonated with a specific movie character? Mhmm.

这被放进情绪板了吗？而且当你上社交媒体播客时，是否被非常具体地提示要以某种方式回答问题，以引起那个电影角色的共鸣？

Has that been put into a mood board? And are you prompted very specifically when you're going on social media podcasts to answer questions in a certain way that would resonate with that movie character?

肯定没有提示，那是肯定的。好吧。还有，我在播客上的表现方式真的取决于我在和谁说话。嗯。我的意思是，有些人我们会深入探讨超级元话题，有些人则是搞笑的对话和谈论文化。

Definitely no prompting, that's for sure. Okay. Also like the the way that I am on a podcast really depends on like who I'm talking to. Mhmm. And what I mean by that is like some people we just go like fucking super meta deep with some people it's like goofy conversations and talking about culture.

对有些人来说两者都有，所以我只是尽量匹配主持人的氛围。至于具体共鸣最多的是谁？

For some people it's like both, so I just I kind of match the vibe of the host. When it comes to a specific, who do I resonate with the most?

或者甚至像你们是不是这样——我的意思是你们利用优势，必须升级。当你有几百万订阅者时，就会有一个临界点，就像，好吧，下一级是什么？而你总是那种问‘下一级是什么’的人。所以有没有一个时刻，由于是媒体公司且变得无处不在，你必须如此协调，以至于必须高度组织化，这样你的团队才能包括助理？

Or is that even like is that how you guys what I'm saying you leverage up and you have to level up. There's a certain point that you have like a few million subscribers that it's like, okay, what's the next level? And you're the type of guy that's always like, what's the next level? And so was there a certain point where you had to get so coordinated since it was a media company and getting so omnipresent that it had to be like tightly organized so your team could consist like assist?

是的。意思是，听着，比如，我们知道有一个大概的要旨。我们知道我们在传递詹姆斯·邦德，也许还有一点蝙蝠侠、了不起的盖茨比，就像，知道那是大概的感觉——如果我们拿我的角色是谁以及我们匹配到谁，我们知道那是大概的氛围。所以我们也知道肯定不是像——我们肯定不想他妈的说唱歌手。我们肯定不像，我们知道我们不想成为什么，然后我们总是把它保持在我们想成为的范围内。

Yeah. Mean, listen, for example, like, we know that there's a general gist. We know we're giving across James Bond, we're giving across maybe a little bit of Batman, Great Gatsby, like, know that that's the general if we take who my character is and who do we kinda match it up to, we know that's the general vibe. So and we know that it's definitely not like a we're definitely not trying to be fucking a rapper. We're definitely not like, we know what we're not trying to be, and then we're always kinda keeping it in the container of what we do wanna be.

嗯。所以我认为有一个大概的理解。肯定没有像媒体培训或你必须说这个或那个，但我们大体知道我们要往哪里去，我们也大体知道，比如，下一个，人生的下一个阶段，如我所说，我装傻已经很长时间了。是的。我们知道人生的下一个阶段，甚至有些事情像，我已经足够接近了。

Mhmm. So I think there's like a general understanding. There's definitely no like media training or you have to say this or you have to say that, but we know generally where we're trying to go and we also generally know like for example, next this next phase of life, as I said, I've been playing dumb for a long time. Yeah. We know this next phase of life, there's even things like, I'm really close enough.

就像，有些我真心喜欢的东西，我现在越来越不敢展示任何关于我风格的东西了。

Like, there's things that I genuinely love that I'm like I'm I'm more and more apprehensive now to even like show anything about my style.

确实。

For sure.

因为这就像是，这些东西是给我自己的，但我知道它们可能会让你被归入其他人的类别。比如，我做的事情真的只是我的生活，就是这样，但我知道有些人看到后会想，哦酷，你在炫耀。这并不让我生气，但有时确实让我沮丧，因为比如说，有一个很酷的电影镜头是我在纽约奔跑。好吧，很酷，他在过他的生活。但比如说，我们去出差，那是去年一次非常重要的商务旅行，我坐了一架BBJ，我们刚录了我跑步的视频，但如果我录了BBJ，就好像你在炫耀。

Because it's just like, these things are for me, but I know they could be you get put into a bucket with other people. Like, for example, like, the shit I do is genuinely just my life and is what it is, but I know for some people they look at that and they're like, oh cool, you're fucking flexing. It's like, it that doesn't annoy me and that does frustrate me sometimes because it's like, let's say there's a cool cinematic of me running through New York. It's like, okay cool, he's living his life. But let's say for example, we're going on a business trip and it was you know, was a very important business trip last year and I took a BBJ and we had just recorded me running, but if I'm recording a BBJ it's like you're flexing.

就像是，或者也许这两种情况都只是我在过我的生活。嗯。但现在已经到了这个阶段，我觉得，不管怎样就是这样，我可以坐在这里哭诉，但发布任何生活方式的内容都会把你归入某个类别，所以这是我们接下来五年一直在思考的事情，就像，不管我是否过着这种生活方式，也许我必须主动地，因为你知道人们会主动过某种生活方式来在社交媒体上展示，我觉得我必须停止。我必须主动不展示我的生活方式，因为这可能会在社交媒体上对我产生负面影响，比如不被认真对待。实际上很有道理

It's like, or maybe I'm both of those fucking things are just me living my life. Mhmm. But now it's getting to that phase where I'm like, whatever it is what it is, could sit here and like cry about it, but like posting any sort of lifestyle stuff then puts you into a certain category, so that's something for example now we've been thinking about for the next five years, it's like, you know whether I'm living this lifestyle or not, maybe like I have to actively because you know how people will actively live a lifestyle to show on social media, I'm like, I think I have to stop. I I have to actively not show my lifestyle because it could affect me negatively on social media in terms of like being taken as serious. Actually makes a lot

。

of sense.

是的。所以

Yeah. So Does

这在现在对你不利吗？

it work against you at this point?

百分之百。

A 100%.

以不同的方式加杠杆。

Leveraging up differently.

是的。我的意思是，当你进入不同的领域时，你实际上是在参与其中。你知道，过去一年到一年半的时间里，我真正在做的是收购公司、投资公司。有些我已经上市了，有些还没有，但我并不被视为那种角色。

Yeah. So I mean, yeah, you're playing in in when you go into different rooms and you know, now like really what I've been doing the last year, year and a half is buying companies, investing in companies. Some I've made public, some I have some I haven't, but it's not I'm not viewed as that.

我总是听你这么说，但我当时想，但你可是做了一个相当大手笔的投资

I always heard you say that and I was like, but you made a pretty big boy investment

才能站在这里，对吧

to be here right