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你正在收听TIP。
You're listening to TIP.
大家好。
Hi, folks.
欢迎来到更富有、更睿智、更快乐的播客。
Welcome to the richer, wiser, happier podcast.
很高兴再次和你们在一起。
It's good to be back with you again.
正如你们所知，几天前我们失去了一位投资界公认的巨擘。
As you know, we lost one of the undisputed giants of the investing world a few days ago.
查理·芒格于11月28日以99岁高龄去世，距离他百岁生日仅差34天。
Charlie Munger passed away at the amazing age of 99 on November 28, just thirty four days short of his one hundredth birthday.
查理是历史上最伟大的投资搭档之一。
Charlie was one half of the greatest investment partnership in history.
他和沃伦·巴菲特共同将伯克希尔·哈撒韦打造成一家市值近8000亿美元的标志性公司。
He and Warren Buffett built Berkshire Hathaway into an iconic company with a market value of almost $800,000,000,000.
但除了数字之外，查理还是一位了不起的导师，他与我们分享了如此多的智慧，同时也是一个令人难忘的人物。
But beyond the numbers, Charlie was an incredible teacher who just shared so much wisdom with all of us, And he was also an unforgettable character.
所以今天我想做一件非常特别的事情，制作一期专门致敬查理的节目，分享我从与他个人互动中所学到的最重要的一些教训——无论是我为写书而采访他时，还是在书出版后我再次与他交谈时。
So I wanted to do something very different today and really do a special episode that's a tribute to Charlie, sharing some of the most important lessons that I've learned from my own personal interactions with him, both when I was working on my book and interviewed him for the book, but also subsequently when I spoke with him after the book came out.
我还会分享他传授给四位曾在本节目过往节目中与我深入探讨过他的著名投资者的宝贵教训。
And I also wanna share some invaluable lessons that he taught four of the famous investors who've spoken with me in-depth on the podcast in previous episodes about Charlie.
他们分别是莫尼什·帕布雷、汤姆·盖纳、克里斯·戴维斯和乔尔·格林布拉特。
That's Monish Pabrai, Tom Gaynor, Chris Davis, and Joel Greenblatt.
接下来，我会播放一些我最喜欢的片段，这些是这些伟大投资者与我谈论查理的精彩话语，之后我会加入一些我个人的评论和观察。
So I'm gonna play you some of my favorite clips in which these great investors talk to me about Charlie, and then I'll add a few comments and observations of my own.
这期节目的目的有两个。
The purpose of this episode is twofold.
首先，从务实的角度来看，我认为提醒自己记住查理的教诲，并将它们深深印入脑海，真正内化于心，以便在实际生活中切实受益，这是非常有价值的。
First, in pragmatic terms, I think it's really valuable to remind ourselves of Charlie's teachings and to pound them into our minds so that we internalize them and they're truly embedded in us so that they're useful to us in the most practical sense.
但第二点，或许更重要的是，我只是想向查理致敬，感谢他非凡的一生、卓越的智慧，以及他慷慨地与我们所有人分享了如此多丰富人生的洞见。
But second and maybe more important, I simply wanna honor Charlie for his incredible life and mind and wisdom and the generosity of spirit that he's shown in sharing so many life enriching insights with us all.
他是一位知识巨擘，同时也是一位道德楷模，在许多方面都是绝佳的榜样。
He was an intellectual giant, but he was also a moral giant and an amazing role model in so many ways.
因此，在他亲密朋友如莫尼什·帕布莱和克里斯·戴维斯的帮助下，我也会试着让你感受一下，是什么让他如此独特、如此与众不同。
And so with the help of close friends of his, like Monish Pabrai and Chris Davis, I'll also try to give you some flavor of what made him so unique and so idiosyncratic as a character.
他是一位真正非凡的人，一个完全独一无二的角色。
He was a really remarkable man, truly a total one off character.
正如你将听到的，这是一期相当个人化的节目，因为我也要坦承，我自己对查理心怀深深的感激之情。
This is, as you'll hear, a quite personal episode, I guess, because I'll also admit that I owe Charlie such a great debt of gratitude myself.
他对我自己的人生产生了巨大的影响。
He's really had a huge impact on my own life.
值得注意的是，我是在他去世后仅两天录制的这段内容。
And it's worth noting that I'm recording this only two days after his passing.
无论如何，感谢你的收听。
Any case, thank you for joining us.
愿他的记忆成为祝福。
May his memory be a blessing.
您正在收听《更富有、更睿智、更快乐》播客，主持人威廉·格林将采访世界顶尖投资者，探讨如何在市场和生活中取得成功。
You're listening to the richer, wiser, happier podcast, where your host, William Green, interviews the world's greatest investors and explores how to win in markets and life.
我想先谈谈我第一次遇见查理的情景，那是在2017年初。
I wanted to start by talking a little bit about my first encounter with Charlie, which was back in early two thousand and seventeen.
查理长期担任一家名为《每日纪事》的小型出版公司的董事长。
Charlie was chairman for a long time of a small publishing company called The Daily Journal.
每年，他都会主持在加利福尼亚举行的年度会议。
And every year, he would preside over the annual meeting in California.
当时我正在为《更富有、更睿智、更快乐》这本书做调研，迫切希望能采访到查理。
And I was working on my book on the reporting for Richer, Wiser, Happier, and I was absolutely desperate to get an interview with Charlie.
于是我通过他的长期助理给他写信，说我要去加利福尼亚。
So I wrote off to him via his long term assistant, and I said, I'm coming to California.
我要去参加《每日纪事》的会议，这是我的背景资料。
I'm coming to the Daily Journal meeting, and here's my background.
这是我的基本情况。
Here's who I am.
这就是我写这本书所做的事情。
Here's what I'm working on with this book.
如果我能在那儿采访他，我会非常感激。
And I would really love it if I could come interview while I'm there.
这其实有一半是实话。
And this was sort of half true.
我的意思是，如果不是他同意采访我，我可能根本不会去。
I mean, I'm not sure I would have gone if it hadn't been for the fact that he granted me an interview.
但有时候，仅仅说你会出现，就已经很有帮助了。
But sometimes just saying you're gonna show up is a pretty helpful thing.
于是我收到了他助理的回信，大意是：芒格先生将在每日邮报会议开始前给你十分钟的采访时间。
And so I remember getting back this note from his assistant saying something along the lines of mister Munger will give you a ten minute interview before the daily journal meeting begins.
于是我陷入了这样一个疯狂的境地：我要从纽约的家飞3000英里，只为采访这位智者十分钟。
And so I was in this crazy position where I was gonna fly 3,000 miles from my home in New York to interview this sage for ten minutes.
这听起来很荒谬，但我只是太兴奋了。
And it sounds absurd, but I was just so excited.
我记得当时站在纽约家里的厨房外，像跳起一种快乐的部落舞蹈一样，兴奋得不知所措，不停地挥舞着双臂。
I remember being outside my kitchen in my home in New York and doing kind of the equivalent your happy tribal dance, where you're so excited that you don't even know what to do with yourself and you're kind of pumping your arms up in the air.
因为他是一位如此标志性的人物，拥有如此卓越的智慧，我当时心想，好吧。
Because he was such an iconic figure and such a towering intellect that I kind of thought, well, okay.
我这本书里将拥有这样一位非凡的人物。
I'm gonna have this one extraordinary figure in my book.
当你在撰写这样一本充满压力的书时，你根本不知道谁能愿意接受你的采访。
And when you're going through the incredible stress of working on a book like that, you don't really know who you're gonna get.
你不知道谁会愿意跟你交谈。
You don't know who's gonna talk to you.
这大概是我早期还在努力争取像埃德·索普、乔尔·格林布拉特、霍华德·马克斯等人采访时的阶段。
And this is in, I guess, the early days where I was still wrangling interviews with people like Ed Thorpe and Joel Greenblatt and Howard Marks and the like.
因此，整个过程都充满了巨大的压力。
So there was a tremendous stress about it all.
所以，当我即将去采访查理·芒格时，我感到无比兴奋。
And so I was just hugely excited that I was gonna go interview Charlie Munger.
但与此同时，我去采访查理时也感到极大的忐忑，因为查理以不耐烦愚钝之人而闻名。
But then at the same time, there was this tremendous trepidation about going to interview Charlie because Charlie had this fearsome reputation for not suffering fools gladly.
因此，一方面我知道，好吧，我只有大约十分钟的时间。
And so on the one hand, I had this pressure that I knew, okay, I've only got about ten minutes.
我的意思是，我以为我只能争取到这么点时间，但最终我确实延长了采访时间。
I mean, I thought I'm gonna be able to expand the amount of time, which I I did in the end.
但我当时觉得，我必须直奔主题的核心。
But I thought I've gotta get straight to the core of this.
我需要弄清楚如何直接切入话题的要害。
I need to figure out how to get right to the eye of the eye of the bull's eye of the topic.
同时，我也不能让自己出丑。
And I also need not to make a fool of myself.
这位以思维敏锐、性格粗鲁甚至有时无礼著称的人，不会看穿我，不会发现我其实是个傻瓜。
So this guy with this searing intellect who was famously gruff and brusque and sometimes rude wouldn't see through me and kind of kind of see what a fool I was.
所以这让我有点紧张。
And so it was a little bit intimidating.
我还听到了一些来自投资界认识查理的人的故事，这些故事进一步加剧了我的焦虑。
And I'd heard these stories from other people who knew Charlie from the investing world that kind of added to my sense of anxiety.
比如，我记得加拿大著名投资者弗朗西斯·周曾经跟我讲过一个他认识的人，那人是个彻头彻尾的查理粉丝，一再参加每日邮报会议和奥马哈的伯克希尔哈撒韦会议。
So I remembered, for example, Francis Chew, a great Canadian investor, talking to me once about some guy he knew who was a total Charlie groupie, who would just go again and again, I think, to the Daily Journal meeting and the Berkshire Hathaway meeting in Omaha.
据我记忆，他曾在电梯里碰到了查理。
And he ran into Charlie, I think, in an elevator, if I remember the story correctly.
他对查理说：‘查理，查理，我看了这么多，我愿意去任何地方见您。’
He said, Charlie, Charlie, I I review so much and I'd go anywhere to meet you.
查理只是看着他，说：‘然后呢？’
And Charlie just looked at him and said, so?
然后就走开了。
And walked on.
正如我在书中所描述的，查理以这些夸张的社交失礼行为而闻名。
And so as I described it in the book, there were these flamboyant failures of diplomacy that Charlie was famous for.
我还特别喜欢另一个精彩例子：当年，莫尼什·帕布里和盖伊·斯皮尔在2008年左右赢得了一场慈善午宴，得以与沃伦·巴菲特共进午餐。
There was another brilliant one that I loved, which was when Monish Pabrai and Guy Spier won a charity lunch to have have this charity lunch with Warren Buffett back in, I think, 2008.
他们支付了大约65万1000美元，只为与沃伦共进午餐。
They paid something like $650,100 to have lunch with Warren.
沃伦给他们讲了一个精彩的故事，后来我想是盖伊或莫尼什告诉我的：查理有一只假眼，视力极差，曾去车管局办事，一位倒霉的公务员问他：‘所以你还是只有一只眼睛吗？’
Warren told them this great story that then, I think Guy or Monish had told me subsequently, where he said that Charlie, had one glass eye and terrible vision, had gone to the DMV, the Department of Motor Vehicles, and some hapless bureaucrat there said to him, So do you still just have the one eye?
查理看着他回答：‘不，我长出另一只了。’
And Charlie looks at him and says, No, I've grown another one.
所以你可以想象，我有点紧张。
So as you can imagine, I was a little bit intimidated.
因此，我花了数周时间认真准备这次采访，读了所有我能找到的关于他的资料。
So I spent weeks really preparing for this interview, and I read just everything I could about him.
比如《穷查理宝典》，这是一本很棒的资料集，收录了他各种旧演讲等内容。
There there were things like Poor Charlie's Almanac, which is a great resource, which had various old speeches and the like of his.
他偶尔接受过一些采访，但并不多。
And he'd done occasional interviews, but not that many.
因此，我对这些内容非常熟悉。
And so I was pretty deeply versed in it.
我到达了《每日纪事报》的会议现场，我知道在正式会议开始、大家有机会向他提问之前，他先要和董事会开一个私人会议。
And I I showed up at the Daily Journal meeting, and I knew that at the very start, he was having a private meeting, I guess, with the board before the general meeting would start where people would get to ask him questions.
于是我干脆就在他开会的房间前等了一个小时，只希望会议能早点结束。
And so I literally just camped out in front of the room where he was having that meeting for an hour, just in the hope that it would finish early.
我紧张地在外面徘徊，反复查看我的问题清单。
And I was sort of loitering around outside nervously looking at my questions.
我带了两三个录音机，因为你需要备份，必须留有安全余地。
And I had about two or three tape recorders with me because you need backups, you need a margin of safety.
当时，像李录、莫尼什和弗朗西斯·周这样知名的投资者都陆续走进这座大楼，我想那是《每日纪事报》位于洛杉矶的总部。
And all of these well known investors like Li Lu and Monish and Francis Chew were kind of milling around coming into this building that was the Daily Journal's headquarters, I think, in Los Angeles.
但会议并没有提前结束。
And then the meeting didn't end early.
终于，门开了，大约十几个人甚至更多的人陆续走出来，边走边聊，而我也被邀请进去了。
Then finally, the door opens and a bunch of people, probably a dozen or so people, maybe more, started to mill out, and they're talking, and I'm invited in.
于是，这一刻我坐在了这位智者身旁，我们的膝盖几乎碰在一起。
So this is the moment I kind of sit down next to the sage with our knees practically touching.
他戴着那种非常厚的瓶底眼镜，像可口可乐瓶子那样的，穿着一件明显太大了的宽松西装，因为显然他的身体这些年已经有些萎缩了。
And he had these sort of very thick bottled glasses, like Coca Cola glasses, and was wearing this kind of baggy suit that was too big for him because obviously his body had kind of, guess, somewhat withered over the years.
当时他93岁。
He was 93 years old at the time.
于是我坐在他对面，周围都是来来往往的人。
And so I'm sitting there opposite him, and there are all these people milling around.
现场有点吵闹，令人分心。
It was kind of noisy and distracting.
你正等着属于你的重要时刻，结果却如此干扰不断。
You're waiting for your big moment, and instead it's kind of really distracting.
让我立刻注意到的一点是，他完全不受干扰。
And one thing that struck me immediately was that he was totally undistracted.
他全神贯注地盯着我，似乎对周围发生的一切都视而不见，这让我隐约感受到这个人有多么专注、多么有定力，能够完全屏蔽外界的干扰。
He was totally focused on me and didn't seem to notice anything that was going on around him, which I think gave some clue as to the intensity of the man, the focus of the man, the ability just to shut other things out.
这让我想起 somewhere 曾经见过的一幅画面：他身边围着八九个孩子，而他却能一直不停地读书。
It reminded me of the image that I had from somewhere of him with about eight kids milling around his feet while he would just read books endlessly.
他就是能够集中注意力。
He just was able to focus.
所以，我一开口就对他说，我认为您是减少愚蠢行为的大师。
And so anyway, I immediately started by saying to him, I regard you as the grandmaster of stupidity reduction.
为什么这么说？
How come?
为什么这是您的方法？
Why is that your approach?
于是我开始跟他谈我所认定的、关于查理最重要的一课：你不必一味追求更聪明，而应专注于减少常见的愚蠢行为、减少普遍的错误、未经思考的失误，正如他所说，减少那些荒谬和空洞的东西——因为他总有一种绝妙的语言表达方式。
And I started to talk to him about this idea that I had decided was really the most central lesson I wanted to share about Charlie, which is that you want to focus not so much on being smarter, but on reducing standard stupidities, reducing common error, unoriginal mistakes, as he would put it, or asininitives and inanitives because he always had this wonderful way with language.
于是我跟他探讨了，为什么这种做法是合理的。
And so I talked to him about why, why that was a sensible approach.
他说，你看。
And he said, look.
识别不该做什么，总比识别该做什么更容易。
It's just easier to identify what not to do than to identify what to do.
他说，这是一种解决问题的不同方式。
And he said, it's a different way of solving the problem.
你是反向解决问题，有时候这比正向解决问题更容易。
You're solving the problem backwards, and that's easier sometimes than solving the problem forwards.
他说，显然你也想正向解决问题，但你应当通过问自己不该做什么来反向思考。
And he said, obviously, you wanna solve the problem forwards as well, but you wanna invert by asking yourself what not to do.
因此，查理会把这些常见的愚蠢行为——那些严重出错的事情——拿出来，问自己：是什么愚蠢的行为导致了这种情况？
And so Charlie would take these examples of standard stupidities, these things that had gone terribly wrong, and he would ask himself, well, what stupid behavior caused that?
然后他会说：好吧，我绝不能这么做。
And then he would say, well, let me not do that.
我记得在一次年度股东大会上，我坐在他其中一个孩子——莫莉旁边，那是他的女儿莫莉·芒格，一位律师和慈善家。
And I remember then at one point during the annual general meeting, was sitting next to one of his children, Molly, it was, his daughter Molly Munger, who's a lawyer and philanthropist.
我向她打听关于他的事，因为作为一名记者，你会抓住任何能获得采访的机会。
And I was asking her about him because as a journalist, you'll take any opportunity to get an interview that comes your way like that.
她开始跟我讲，她小时候，他总是给孩子们讲一些关于家庭中发生的可怕事情的道德寓言。
And she started talking to me about how when she was a kid, he always had these morality tales that he would tell his children about terrible things that had happened in families.
她说，这些故事通常涉及某个极其不知感恩的孩子，这个孩子来自一个极其富有的家庭，却未能理解父母的智慧与慷慨，最终与父母对簿公堂或发生争执。
And she said usually they would involve some incredibly ungrateful child of some vastly rich person who had failed to appreciate the wisdom and generosity of their parent and ended up in a lawsuit with them or a dispute with them.
但这恰恰是研究典型愚蠢行为、分析事物为何出错，然后学会避免重蹈覆辙的一个绝佳例子。
But it was a really nice example of this habit of studying standard stupidity, studying the way things go wrong, and then learning not to do that.
因此，我在书中对此观点进行了较长篇幅的阐述，如果你想更深入地了解这一点。
So I write about this idea at some length in the book if you wanna look into this at greater length.
我把这一章命名为‘别当傻瓜’，因为整个方法的核心其实就是避免愚蠢，这在我看来是个巨大的讽刺与悖论——毕竟芒格本人是一位极其聪慧的智者。
I I called the chapter don't be a fool because really the whole approach is about the avoidance of folly, which strikes me as a as a great irony and paradox given that Munger himself was this searingly brilliant intellect.
我的意思是，比尔·盖茨曾说，芒格是他所见过的思维最广博的人。
I mean, Bill Gates said that Munger had the broadest mind of anyone he ever encountered.
沃伦·巴菲特说，他是世界上反应最快的人，你话还没说完，他就已经看透了你所说的一切本质。
Warren Buffett said that he had the greatest thirty second mind in the world, that before you even finished a sentence, he saw the essence of everything you were talking about.
莫尼兹曾经告诉我，查理在智力上远超沃伦。
And Moniz once said to me that Charlie was a quantum leap above Warren in terms of intelligence.
因此，像查理这样聪明绝顶的人，却如此专注于减少那些常见的愚蠢行为，这一点非常耐人寻味。
So there's something very revealing about the fact that someone as clever as Charlie would focus so much on reducing standard stupidities.
所以我认为，在某种程度上，这是我想要分享的第一个教训，因为我觉得这对我们的自我内化来说非常有力。
So I think in some ways, that's the first lesson I'd like to share just because I think it's such a powerful one for us to internalize ourselves.
这正是我自己经常深入思考的问题。
It's something that I think about a great deal myself.
我总是在特别思考，如何避免那些后果无限严重的灾难性结果。
I'm always thinking in particular about how do I avoid disastrous outcomes where there's a sort of limitless downside.
因此，我认为应用查理这种思维方式最有帮助的技巧之一，就是问自己：那么，在这种情况下，愚蠢的决定会是什么？
And so I think one of the most helpful tricks in applying this way of thinking from Charlie is to ask yourself, okay, well, so what's the dumb decision in this circumstance?
与其立刻问‘什么是明智的做法？’，不如先问‘什么是愚蠢的举动？’
What what would the dumb move be rather than immediately asking, what's the smart thing to do?
你可以在投资中这么做，也可以在家庭事务中，或者任何决定中使用这种方法——比如是否搬家，是否接受一份新工作。
And you can do this with an investment, but you can do this with with family or with any any decision, whether to move country, whether to take on a new job.
什么是愚蠢的做法？
What's the stupid thing to do?
尤其是我认为，要特别留意那些后果极其严重的情况——一旦搞砸，结果就是灾难性的。
And then in particular, I think, look out for things where there's enormous downside, where if you screw up, the results are catastrophic.
正如杰弗里·冈拉克曾经对我说的，你要确保自己的错误不会致命。
So as Jeffrey Gundlach once said to me, you wanna make sure that your mistakes are nonfatal.
这是我从第一次与查理见面时学到的一个非常重要的教训。
So that was a really important lesson I drew from my own first encounter with Charlie.
但我想那天在查理公司还另有深意，因为原本安排的采访只有十分钟。
But then I would say there was another kind of subtext to that day in Charlie's company because it started out it started out with this interview that was supposed to be only ten minutes.
但到结束时，我当然想多留他一会儿，就像人们常做的那样。
And then at the end, I, of course, was trying to detain him and take a little longer as you do.
他却说：‘不行，不行，我不能让这些观众久等。’
And he was like, No, no, I can't keep this audience waiting.
于是我看到了他的礼貌、体贴，以及他不愿让从世界各地赶来见他的追随者们感到不便或失礼的意愿。
And so I could see his politeness, his courtesy, his desire not to inconvenience or be rude to this crowd of disciples who'd come from all over the world to see him.
于是我帮他一把。
And so I kinda helped him out.
他拄着一根非常粗大的拐杖，杖头有个大大的球状部分，步履蹒跚地走着。
He was hobbling along on this very thick walking stick with like this big bulbous head to it.
他步履蹒跚，微微弯着腰，看起来非常疲惫。
And he's sort of hobbling along, slightly bent over, looking very beaten up.
我的意思是，他的身体明显衰退了很多，但他的思维依然极其出色。
I mean, clearly, he declined physically a great deal, though his mind was still absolutely extraordinary.
真的非常敏锐。
I mean, really extraordinarily sharp.
他在年度股东大会上，在一个座无虚席的房间里，回答了大约两个小时的问题。
And he goes and he answers questions maybe for two hours in this annual general meeting in this crowded room with standing room only.
正如我当时记得他开玩笑说的，人们来是因为他们以为他撑不了多久了。
As I think he joked at the time, had come because they thought he wouldn't be around much longer.
所以他们想抓住这个机会，最后一次见他一面。
So they wanted to take a venture of the opportunity to see him one last time.
那是他大约93岁的时候，还算是个年轻人。
This is back when he was a spring chicken of about 93.
在那场会议结束时，他已经花了大约一个小时与每日邮报的董事会单独会面，接着又接受了我对他的采访，对他来说这轻而易举。
And then at the end of that meeting, when he'd already spent maybe an hour in a private meeting with the board of the Daily Journal, Then he'd gone through me interviewing him, which was a breeze for him.
然后他又花了两个小时回答问答环节的问题。
And then he'd gone through two hours of this q and a session.
之后，他还留下来，继续回答围在他身边的弟子们提出的问题，又持续了两个小时。
He then stayed and kept answering questions from disciples who crowded around him for the next two hours.
在这段时间里，我抓住机会又向他问了几个问题。
And I used the opportunity to ask him several more questions during that period.
他坐在那里吃着C的糖果，在我看来，他吃C糖的样子几乎像在进行一种圣礼，因为C显然是伯克希尔非常重要的投资。
And he would sit there eating C's candy, which it seemed to me almost like sacrament, the way he was eating the C's candy, because C's obviously was a really important investment for Berkshire.
糖果碎屑四处飞溅，洒落在他的夹克和衬衫上。
And it's kind of flying everywhere, the crumbs of this C's candy just sort of spilling out on his jacket and his shirt.
然后他还把C的糖果分给周围这些弟子们。
And then he's sharing the seas candy with these disciples around him.
这真是令人惊叹的一幕，因为他根本不想走。
And it was this amazing thing because he didn't wanna leave.
他非常乐意继续向这些人传授智慧。
He was perfectly happy to just keep dispensing wisdom to these people.
这其实挺可爱的，他们从各地赶来，而他愿意给他们尽可能多的时间。
And there was something kinda lovely about it, that they had come from everywhere, and he was gonna give them as much time as they wanted.
某种程度上，这让我感到震惊，因为我原本以为他会是个脾气古怪的老人，可能会吓唬DMV的工作人员——你知道的，他曾对比尔·米勒说过，比尔告诉我，他在纽约市遇到过他，便打招呼说：‘嗨，查理。’
And I think this was one of the shocks to me in some ways is that I had come expecting this kind of curmudgeonly old guy who, you know, would terrorize DMV people or had you know, he had once said to Bill Miller, Bill had told me that he had run into him in New York City, and he said, hi, Charlie.
我想那是在曼哈顿中城靠近无线电城的地方。
Now I think this was next to Radio City in in Midtown Manhattan.
查理却说：‘你谁啊？’
And Charlie said, Who the hell are you?
比尔说：‘不久前，我们在哈佛的一场行为金融学会议上见过面。’
And Bill said, Oh, you and I met at a behavioral finance conference at Harvard not long ago.
查理说：‘哦，是吗。’
And Charlie was like, Oh, yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
他对妻子说：‘你先回酒店吧。’
And he said to his wife, You go back to the hotel.
我要和比尔一起随便逛一会儿。
I'm gonna wander around with Bill for a bit.
他们俩会一起逛上一个小时左右。
And they'd wander around for an hour or so together.
所以他确实有性格急躁、严厉的一面，让人觉得有点难以接近。
So he had this definitely a brisk side to him, a tough side to him that was a little forbidding.
但到了这一天，也就是我2017年见到他时，他对观众表现得无比礼貌和友善。
But then when it came to this day, I met him back in 2017, he just couldn't have been more courteous or kinder to the audience.
我对此写过一点，我觉得自己在这么说时，有点担心太过感性。
And I wrote about this a little bit, I think I was a little wary of trying to be too sentimental in saying this.
但当我谈到他对弟子们展现出的善意、耐心和慷慨时，我真正想表达的是，这让我感受到一种爱。
But what I really meant when I was talking about the kindness and patience and generosity that he showed to his disciples was that it felt like love to me.
我的意思是，他对这些人身上有一种温暖的精神，这让我觉得这个人真的变了。
I mean, it felt there was a there was a warmth of spirit towards these people, and it made me think this guy has changed.
他随着年龄增长变得温和了。
He's mellowed with age.
我记得莫莉，他的女儿，对我说：是的，你看，这些年来他变得不那么尖刻了。
And I remember Molly, his daughter, saying to me, yeah, look, he's become less acerbic over the years.
蒙蒂对我说：他是个心地非常柔软的人。
And Monty said to me, look, he's a very soft hearted guy.
你知道，他外表强硬，但内心柔软。
You know, he has this tough exterior, but he's soft hearted.
但这让我想到，也许他真的进步了。
But it made me think maybe he's really improved.
也许他真的在努力提升自己。
Maybe he's really worked on himself.
我觉得这出人意料地鼓舞人心，因为它让我想到，像查理或沃伦这样的伟人，也在不断自我完善、持续进步。
And I I found that oddly inspiring because it made me think even these these giant figures like Charlie or Warren, they continue to work on themselves and continue to improve.
所以，这些是我2017年第一次见到查理时学到的几点启示。
So those are a couple of lessons from my first encounter with Charlie back in 2017.
我下一次与查理·芒格交谈是在大约四年后的2021年7月左右。
The next time I spoke with Charlie Munger was about four or so years later in, I think, July 2021.
那时我的书刚刚出版不久。
And so this is shortly after my book had been published.
我收到了来自加州一位非常友善的风险投资人的LinkedIn邀请，他叫杰米·蒙哥马利，大意是：您是否愿意参加一场与查理的Zoom早餐会？他非常喜爱您的书。
And I got an invitation, I think, on LinkedIn from a very nice venture capitalist in California, a guy called Jamie Montgomery, saying something along the lines of, would you like to attend a Zoom breakfast with Charlie who really enjoyed your book?
我一开始以为这很可能是个恶作剧。
And I initially thought, you know, this was probably a prank.
然后我想，等等。
And then I was like, wait a second.
也许这是真的。
Maybe maybe it's real.
结果发现，查理那时每周都会举办非常规律的早餐会。
And so it turned out that that Charlie would have these very regular, I think weekly breakfast in those days.
因为新冠疫情，这些聚会改成了Zoom形式。
It had switched to Zoom because of COVID.
因此，他每周都会通过Zoom与一群顶尖投资者共进早餐。
And so he would have these weekly breakfasts over Zoom with a bunch of really renowned investors.
这些人都像路·辛普森，他是管理GEICO（伯克希尔旗下的子公司）的传奇投资者，长期取得了巨大成功。
So these were people like Lou Simpson, who was an absolutely legendary investor who ran GEICO, the Berkshire unit, with tremendous success for a long time.
马克·尼尔森，一位非常著名的澳大利亚投资者，他创立了澳大利亚最大的对冲基金Caledonia，我几周前在悉尼跟他共进过早餐，人非常好。
Mark Nelson, a very renowned Australian investor who set up, I think, the biggest Australian hedge fund, Caledonia, who I had breakfast with in Sydney a couple of weeks ago, very nice guy.
还有其他一些非常聪明的投资者，他们会参加这些每周与查理的对话。
And a few other really smart investors who would show up for these weekly conversations with Charlie.
偶尔，他们也会邀请一位嘉宾演讲者。
And occasionally, they would have a guest speaker.
他们会邀请霍华德·马克斯这样的人。
They would invite a Howard Marks or someone like that.
所以我被邀请参加了这次早餐会，杰米很友善地告诉我，是的，你的书已经被指定为在场的六位投资者的必读作业。
So I was invited to this breakfast, and Jamie very kindly said to me, yeah, your book has been assigned as homework for the half dozen investors who'll be there.
所以你可以想象我当时有多尴尬。
So you can imagine how sheepish I felt.
我的意思是，我记得当时给母亲写信说，感觉就像我刚看了几场网球比赛，就被邀请去跟纳达尔和德约科维奇讨论如何改进他们的发球动作。
I mean, I remember writing to my mother at the time and saying, felt like I'd watched a few games of tennis and was being invited to come talk to Nadal and Djokovic to tell them how to improve their tennis swing.
我既感到无比荣幸，又完全被吓到了，因为我要去和查理、卢·辛普森等人谈论我的书、写作经历、我所学到的东西等等。
Felt both simultaneously incredibly flattered and totally intimidated at the idea that I was going to come talk to Charlie and Lou Simpson and Co about my book and my experiences writing it and what I've learned and the like.
所以我非常兴奋。
So I was very excited.
于是我参加了这个电话会议，但我一直没提过这个会议，因为它是个私密活动。
And so I get on this call and I've not really talked about the call because it was a private thing.
所以我从未写过任何相关的内容，但我认为我分享的这些内容并不构成严重的保密泄露。
So I've never written about it or anything, but I don't think I'm sharing anything that is a great breach of confidence.
查理本人并不在这里反对，而且我认为他会乐意让我分享一些教训，而无需详细描述这次会议的具体内容。
Charlie isn't here to object, and I think would be happy for me to share some of the lessons without talking about this in too much detail.
而真正令人惊叹的是，参加这场持续了将近两小时、大约一个半小时的电话会议时，你能够看到查理非凡的智力广度。
And so one of the amazing things really about just sitting on this call, which lasted just under two hours, about an hour and fifty minutes or so, was that you saw the extraordinary range of intellect that Charlie had.
他深受历史熏陶，会谈论20世纪30年代的政治或经济形势，或者突然转而谈起约翰·梅纳德·凯恩斯，称赞他是个多么了不起的人物。
I mean, he was so steeped in history that he would be talking about the 1930s, the political situation or the economic situation in the 1930s, or he would suddenly veer off and start talking about John Maynard Keynes and what a remarkable man he was.
或者他会谈到当前的经济状况，比如大量印钞，然后以一种非凡的方式将之与历史联系起来，谈论过去几个世纪里各种货币如何被摧毁，但储备货币却从未被摧毁过。
Or he would talk about the current economic situation with lots of printing of money, And he would be able to put it in the context of history in an extraordinary way and would be able to talk about how you'd seen various currencies destroyed over the centuries, but you'd never seen the reserve currency destroyed.
所以他并不是说美国会发生这种情况，而是在谈论其中的风险，以及我们正身处前所未有的境地。
So he wasn't saying that was gonna happen with The US, but he was talking about the risks and the degree to which we were in uncharted territory.
这种博学多才的读者，能从历史、经济的角度出发，谈论希特勒、谈论凯恩斯，展现出令人惊叹的广博知识。
So that sense of this polymathic reader drawing on history, on economics, talking about Hitler, talking about Keynes, talking really an incredible range of knowledge.
这是一件非常令人印象深刻的事。
So that was a very striking thing.
而且他与路·辛普森这样杰出的人物在一起，但很明显，在很多方面查理才是真正的领头人，即使那时他已经98岁左右，依然能畅所欲言。
And the fact that he was with these towering figures like Lou Simpson, and yet it was clear in many ways that Charlie was kind of the top dog, that even at the age of, I think then 98, he would just let rip.
你有时会觉得他听不清别人在说什么，于是他会打断别人，而对方则会安静下来，听他长篇大论。
You sometimes had this sense that he couldn't quite hear what other people were saying, so he would talk over someone and then they would just kind of go quiet while he expounded on it.
因此，看到这样一个智慧强大的人，在如此杰出的群体中依然被众人敬重、被视为精神领袖，令人敬畏。
So it was formidable to see the power of this intellect that in a group that eminent, there was still a sense that he was deferred to, that he was top dog intellectually.
他非常有主见，也很幽默，有时甚至有些粗俗。
And he's very opinionated and he was funny and occasionally kind of crude.
会时不时地使用脏话。
Would sort of use swear words.
我的意思是，他语言生动，极具表现力。
I mean, he's colorful, amazing sense of language.
对我个人而言，这么说有点难以启齿，怕听起来像自我吹嘘，所以请原谅我，因为接下来我可能会显得自夸。
And for me personally, it's hard to say this without sounding self congratulatory, so please forgive me for this because I'm going to sound self congratulatory.
但这次通话中最令人难忘的是，他在通话一开始，以及快结束时，又开始告诉我他对我的书的看法。
But the thing that was kind of unforgettable about the call was that he early on in the call and then at the end again started to tell me what he thought of my book.
我之前通过莫尼什听说过他对这本书的评价，因为莫尼什曾拍过一段视频，显示他在家里谈论这本书，并给了我非常美好的赞誉。
And and I I I had heard through Monish what he thought of the book because Monish once took a video of him in his house talking about the book and giving me very nice compliments about it.
但他在通话中说，这是有史以来最好的投资书籍之一。
But he said on the call, it's one of the best investment books ever written.
接着他又说，这是一项巨大的贡献。
And then he started to say, look, it's an enormous contribution.
他说，我已经很久没读过这么好的书了。
He said, I haven't read a book that good for a long time.
非常实用。
It's very useful.
所以你可以想象，我感觉自己仿佛死而升天了。
So you can imagine, I kind of felt like I died and gone to heaven.
这对我来说不是一件小事。
This isn't a small thing for me.
我花了五年时间写这本书，从未休过假，而且当你写这样的书时，你会非常脆弱。
I had spent five years on the book without taking a vacation ever, and and you're extremely exposed when you work on a book like this.
我的意思是，我把全部的心血都倾注进去了。
I mean, I put heart and soul into it.
而有芒格这样一位我极为敬重、我知道他是个如饥似渴、永不疲倦的读者的人，说我的书是有史以来最好的投资书籍之一，这让我所有的付出在一瞬间变得有意义，也让我觉得一切都值得。
And there was something about having Munger, this guy who had who I have tremendous respect for and who I know is this voracious reader, just an incorrigible, relentless reader saying that my book was one of the best investment books ever written, that in one fell swoop, all of the effort I put into the book made sense and felt worthwhile.
当一本书成功时，你会收到很多美好的评论，人们会告诉你他们喜欢它。
And it was you you get a lot of really nice comments on a book when it's gone well and people tell you they like it.
这真的很美好。
And it's really lovely.
你会听到它对人们产生了影响，这令人动容，也极具生命力。
You you hear that it's had an effect on people, and it's it's moving and very life affirming.
但某种程度上，查理的这句认可，比任何书评、任何评论都更让我珍视。
But in a way more than any book review or any comment or anything, that single seal of approval from Charlie meant the world to me.
这件事对我来说有各种各样的意义。
And it was interesting to me for various reasons.
我之前在和斯蒂格·布罗德森交谈时提到过，我意识到自己写了很多关于应该拥有内在评分体系的内容，而像巴菲特和芒格这样的人所传授的伟大一课就是：你应该依靠内在评分体系，而不依赖外界的认可。
Of which, which I've mentioned before in talking to Stig Brodersen, is that I realized I write a lot about how you should have an inner scorecard, and that this is one of the great lessons from people like Buffett and Munger is that you should operate by an inner scorecard and not need external validation.
但通过与查理的这次对话，我意识到自己非常需要外界的认可，我无法欺骗自己说我不需要。
But one of the things I learned from that discussion with Charlie is I have a tremendous need for external validation and I can't fool myself into thinking that I don't.
这对我来说意义重大。
It meant a huge amount to me.
但查理在谈论这本书时，另一件特别有趣的事是，他在以如此热情、对我而言极其鼓舞的方式赞扬我之后，又说：我预测这本书只会取得中等程度的成功。
But the other thing that was really interesting in Charlie talking about the book is having praised me in this kind of effusive and for me very life affirming way, he then said, I predict that the book will have a moderate success.
他还说：在大多数地方，这本书的受欢迎程度会像老鼠药一样。
And he said, It'll be about as welcome as rat poison in most places.
电话里的其他人开始笑起来，我也笑了，事后我对出版商说，我绝不敢请查理为这本书写推荐语，那样做看起来太功利、太操纵了。
And the other people on the call kind of started to laugh, I laughed and I was like I said to my publisher afterwards, I would never dare to ask Charlie for a blurb for the book, I actually would seem too sort of exploitative and manipulative.
但当我告诉斯克里布纳出版社的编辑时，他说，这会是一个绝佳的推荐语。
But when I told my editor at Scribner this, he said, that would be an amazing blurb.
就把‘认证的鼠药——查理·芒格’印在封面上吧。
Just put certified rat poison Charlie Munger on the cover.
但查理其实是在表达一个非常严肃的观点，正如他解释的那样——当时其他人在电话里因他刚说我的书像鼠药而略显尴尬地轻笑，他却继续说着。
But Charlie was making a really serious point, which is as he explained it, and he was kind of talking over the other people on the call while they were sort of laughing slightly embarrassed at the fact that he just said my book was like rat poison.
这本书只会取得中等程度的成功。
It would only be moderately successful.
查理开始非常坚定地解释：不。
Charlie started to explain fairly insistently, no.
他说，这本书，《更富有、更睿智》等等。
He said, The book He said, Richer, wiser, and so forth.
我想他一时想不起更积极的那部分了。
I guess he couldn't remember the happier part.
他说，这本书对传统财富咨询行业提出了如此革命性且根本性的批判，以至于他认为，它将遭到广泛厌恶。
He said, It's so revolutionary and so critical intrinsically of the traditional wealth advisory business that he said, I think it's going to be widely detested.
他说，原因在于这威胁到了许多人的生计。
And he said, The reason is it threatens a lot of people's livelihoods.
正如他解释的那样，他说，金融界和投资领域有很多人——不客气地说，大卫，我直接引用他的话，虽然这是家庭节目，但请原谅我用这样的措辞。
And as he explained it, he said, there are a lot of people in the financial world, in the investment business, who not to put too fine a point on David, I'll quote him even though this is a family show and you'll forgive me for using this language.
他说，有很多人正在向傻瓜兜售垃圾产品。
He said, there are a lot of people who are selling shit to morons.
而你正在解释一种更合理、更有效的投资方式，这让很多人感到不安。
And you're kind of explaining this different approach to investing that makes sense, and that's very unsettling for people.
他说，这确实对很多人构成了巨大威胁，因为举个例子，如果你是一名财富顾问，每年赚800美元，送孩子上好大学，过着不错的生活，虽然投资回报并不理想，但你靠收取几个百分点的管理费中饱私囊，当你读到这样一本书，告诉你根本没走对路时，你会怎么办？
He said, it's it's really threatening to a lot of people because he said, if you're, for example, a wealth advisor and you're making $800 a year and you're sending your kids to good colleges and the like, and living a nice lifestyle, and you're not getting great results, but you're skimming a couple of points off the top in fees, What are you gonna do when you read a book like this that says you're not taking the right approach?
你是不是会有点不舒服地把这本书搁到一边，然后继续做你原来的事？
Is it basically, you're gonna set the book aside slightly uncomfortably and then get on with doing what you're doing?
因此，他说，金融行业中有大量的人被困在这个系统里，他们所做的事情其实并不奏效。
And so he said, there are all of these people in the financial industry who basically trapped inside this system where what they're doing doesn't necessarily work.
他说，金融学教授也是如此。
He said, similarly with finance professors.
如果你是个金融学教授，我一直对很多金融学教授抱有某种鲜明的鄙视。
If you're a finance professor, always had sort of colorful contempt for a lot of finance professors.
他说，那你打算怎么办？
He said, what are you gonna do?
你会读这本书，感到有点不舒服，然后把它搁在一旁，继续做你原来的事。
You're gonna read the book and you're be gonna slightly uncomfortable and you're gonna set aside and get on with what you do.
你不会因为说‘我的方法没有道理’就毁掉自己的职业生涯。
You're not gonna blow up your career because you say, My approach doesn't make sense.
所以他说，这就像那些外科医生，只做某种手术，仅仅因为那是他们唯一会做的手术。
And so he said it's a little bit like back surgeons who keep doing operations of a certain type just because it's the only type of operation they know.
他说，这不过是人性使然，我们会说服自己，认为自己做事的方式才是对的。
Said, It's just human nature that we convince ourselves that the way we are doing things is the right way.
所以他引用了作家厄普顿·辛克莱的一句名言。
And so he quoted this great line from the author, Upton Sinclair.
这是一句著名的话，我认为是：要让一个人理解某件事很难，尤其是当他的收入依赖于他不理解它的时候。
It's a famous line, which is, I think it's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
所以查理说，厄普顿·辛克莱说得对。
And and so Charlie said, Upton Sinclair had it right.
你知道吗？
You know?
这种对激励、自利以及我们自我欺骗方式的理解，非常、非常强大。
This understanding of incentives, self interest, and the way we delude ourselves is very, very powerful.
因此，为了说明查理说这句话时所指的意思——我展示了一种替代方法——我在书中关于蒙尼什·帕拉伊的章节中提到，查理的方法就像一个持矛捕鱼的人，长时间守在溪边，可能几个月都没有任何机会。
And so just to give a sense of what I think Charlie was referring to when he said that I was showing this alternate approach, Part of what I write about in the book is in the chapter that I wrote about Monish Pabrai, I talk about Charlie's approach of basically being like a spear fisherman, where you wait by the side of a stream for a long time, maybe months on end, there are no opportunities.
但偶尔，一条肥美的大鲑鱼游过，你就出击，然后再次回归静待，直到下一个机会出现。
Then once in a while, a big fat juicy salmon goes past a new spirit, and then you go back to doing nothing until another opportunity arises.
这与华尔街许多人的做法完全相反，他们要活跃得多。
And so it's very counter to the approach of a lot of people on Wall Street who are much more hyperactive.
他们一直在做事，或者持有的股票太多，根本没能力真正理解这些企业，因为持股太多，这正是华尔街的通病；或者他们过度收费、过度承诺，而实际上根本无法兑现。
They're doing stuff the whole time, or maybe they own way too many stocks, so they don't really have the capacity to understand the businesses because they own so many stocks, which is the problem with a lot of Wall Street, or they overcharge and overpromise when they really can't perform.
查理谈到的一件事就是，要真正做好这件事有多么困难。
And one of the things that Charlie was talking about was just how difficult it is to perform.
我的意思是，他经常谈到跟上指数基金的痛苦，扣除费用和税收后，这极其困难，尤其是当你管理一个规模庞大、资产众多的基金时。
I mean, he often talked about the painfulness of keeping up with index funds that after expenses and taxes, it's just extraordinarily difficult, especially if you have a big fund, lots of assets.
但他也说过，即使你有一个高度集中的专注型基金，只持有几只股票，仍然非常困难，因为你可能对持仓有极强的信念，但你仍可能犯错。
But he also said, even if you have a focused fund that's very concentrated and only owns a few stocks, he said, it's still really difficult because you might have very high conviction in your positions, but you might be wrong.
通常人们会出来公开谈论他们最看好的持仓。
And often people will come out and they'll say what their favorite position is.
他们会非常公开地宣称自己最看好的股票。
They'll be very public about saying what their favorite position is.
然后这种说法就会深深烙进他们的脑海，让他们觉得这是个必赢的持仓。
And then that beats into their brain that that's a winning position.
所以他们就会过度相信，用他的话说。
So they have they over believe, as he put it.
他们对这只股票变得过于执着。
They become too committed to that stock.
所以我认为这里有几个非常重要的教训，其中之一就是错误激励的危险，以及我们容易被误导，相信那些看似符合自身商业利益但实际上并不真实的事情。
So I think there are a few really important lessons here, one of which is just the dangers of having the wrong incentives, the danger that we delude ourselves into believing things that aren't necessarily true, but seem to be in our own commercial interest.
同样地，我认为对普通投资者来说，最重要的一点是确保你所投资的对象——如果你把钱交给别人——他们的利益与你是一致的。
And similarly, I think one of the most important things for regular investors is just to make sure that the person you're investing with, if you give someone else your money, that your incentives are aligned with them.
你要确保收费结构是公平的、与绩效挂钩的，他们因表现优异而获得回报，而不是仅仅因为你什么都没做就向你收取过高费用。
You wanna make sure the fee structure is fair and that it's aligned and that they're rewarded for doing a good job and that they're not just charging you excessive fees for doing nothing.
因此，理解激励机制非常重要。
So that understanding of incentives is very important.
要认识到我们会欺骗自己，会找借口，有时我们无法接受真相。
The understanding that we lie to ourselves, that we rationalize, that sometimes we can't accept the truth.
我们会自我欺骗，以为自己在创造价值，而实际上并没有。
We delude ourselves into thinking that we're adding value when we're not.
这很危险。
That's dangerous.
他的方法始终是极度理性，努力面对令人痛苦的真相。
His approach was always to be brutally rational, to try to deal with painful truths.
对话中还提到另一件事，我认为他也会乐意让我分享：当我向他询问本·格雷厄姆时，显然本·格雷厄姆对沃伦·巴菲特产生了巨大影响。
The other thing that came out in the conversation that I also think he'd be happy for me to share was when I was asking him about Ben Graham, who obviously had an enormous influence on Warren Buffett.
他是沃伦·巴菲特的良师，查理当然也认识他。
He was Warren Buffett's great teacher and Charlie obviously knew him as well.
查理对我说，我问他格雷厄姆的教导是否仍然有效。
And Charlie said to me, I was asking whether what Graham taught was still relevant.
他说，这是他的原话。
And he said And these are his exact words.
他说，本的哲学基本上认为，它不可能过时。
He said that Ben's philosophy basically said, It can't be obsolete.
然后他说，所有成功的投资都源于获得比你支付的更多的价值。
And then he said, All investing that's successful comes from getting more value than you pay for.
所以他说道，实现这一点有不同的方法。
And so he said, there are different ways of doing that.
对吧？
Right?
你可以关注那些被所有人鄙视、交易清淡的滞涨股。
You could look at laggards that everyone disdains sort of thinly traded.
这是一种以更低价格获得更高价值的方式。
That's one way of getting more value than you pay for.
或者他说，你可以像比尔·米勒那样，通过购买亚马逊来寻找价值。
Or he said, you could look for value in buying Amazon as someone like Bill Miller did.
所以他说，你可以在各种地方寻找机会，但他强调，你始终在寻找比你付出的代价更多的价值。
So he said, you can hunt in various places, but he said, you're always looking for more prospects than you're paying for.
而这两句话，我认为非常值得内化。
And those two sentences, think are really worth internalizing.
第一句是：所有成功的投资都源于获得比你支付的更多的价值，以及你始终在寻找比你付出的代价更多的价值。
That first one, all investing that's successful comes from getting more value than you pay for, and you're always looking for more prospects than you're paying for.
但他还对本·格雷厄姆说了另一番非常出色的话，他说：本有一个准则，每天他都会告诉自己，我要尝试做一件慷慨的事和一件有创意的事。
But then he also said something else really nice about Ben Graham, which is he said, look, he had a rule where every day he said, I wanna try to do something generous and something creative.
他说，对于一位学者来说，这是一个很好的想法。
And he said, that's a nice thought for an academic.
他说，大约三十年来，他无偿教学，教导了许多平凡的人，他的目的是帮助他人。
And he said for thirty years or so, he taught without pay and he would teach a bunch of nondescript people and he was trying to help.
他说他帮助了很多人，并且认为这是一段非常有价值的人生。
He said he helped a lot of people and he said it was a very worthwhile life.
自从他去世后的这几天，这也让我想到了查理，查理也同样帮助了很多人。
And that kind of made me think of Charlie as well over the last couple of days since his passing, that Charlie also helped a lot of people.
这是一段非常有价值的人生。
It was a very worthwhile life.
所以这些是关于第二次见面的一些回忆。
So those are those are a few a few recollections from that second encounter.
那次通话中另一个略带幽默的结果是，查理和卢·辛普森对阿里巴巴给予了极高的评价，而查理在过去几年里多次谈到过阿里巴巴，因为他曾做出过一项著名的大胆投资——但随后阿里巴巴却被一波又一波的监管压力彻底击垮，这些政治和监管压力让它一落千丈。
The one other slightly comic outcome from that call is that Charlie and Lou Simpson spoke in very glowing terms about Alibaba, which Charlie has spoken about a lot over the last couple of years, because Charlie made this famously bold bet on Alibaba, which then got absolutely creamed by this sort of wall of regulatory pressures and the like that just really crushed it, political and regulatory pressures.
我当时被这次通话的精彩程度完全迷住了。
And I was sort of so carried away by the wonder of this call.
我的意思是，你可以想象，听完查理告诉我我的书是有史以来最好的投资书籍之一后，我挂掉电话时的心情。
Mean, you can imagine I get off this call having listened to Charlie tell me my book, some of the best investment books ever written.
还有一点，有人问卢·辛普森对这本书的看法，他回答说：‘这是一本很棒的书。’
Also there was one point where someone asked Lou Simpson what he thought of the book and he was like, Oh, it's a great book.
他开始谈到，我以为他可能只是在客气。
He started talking about how I thought maybe he was just being polite.
但无论如何，他说这是一本很棒的书，能够从他人的故事中学习真是太好了，这是一种极佳的学习方式。
But in any case, he said it was he said it was a great book and that it was it was great to be able to learn from people's stories, that that's a that's a wonderful way to learn.
但Lou提到，他刚刚买入了阿里巴巴的股票，觉得它便宜得离谱。
But but Lou talked about how he had just bought at Alibaba and how it was screamingly cheap.
Charlie也持有大量阿里巴巴的仓位，他说：‘如果我有更多现金，我会全仓买入。’
And And Charlie had bought this huge position in Alibaba and he said, Look, if I had more cash, I would be all in.
我会用那些现金全仓买入，我觉得，因为它实在太便宜了。
I'd be all in with that cash, I think, because it's so cheap.
我想，部分原因是我被这场充满生命意义的通话所感染。
And I think partly just carried away by my joy about this life affirming call.
在这通电话之后，我某时买了阿里巴巴的股票。
I then go and buy Alibaba at some point after that call.
我记不清具体是什么时候了。
I can't remember when exactly.
我当时在看它。
And I was looking at it.
从某种意义上说，这说得通，对吧？
And in some ways it made sense, right?
我的意思是，它非常便宜。
I mean, it was very cheap.
它不受青睐。
It was out of favor.
正如Lou所说，它是一家位于快速增长国家的主导企业，很可能在增长速度上超越美国。
And as Lou said, it was a dominant company in a fast growing country that would probably outstrip The US in terms of its growth.
这在某些方面说得通，但我真的没有做深入研究。
It made certain sense, but I really didn't do the work.
我依赖着这两位投资界的巨擘。
And I was relying on these two giants of investing.
某种程度上，这迎合了我的弱点，也就是说，你称之为权威偏见，对吧？
In a way, it played to my own vulnerability as I mean, you call it authority bias, right?
这是一种偏见，它利用了我的脆弱性——作为一个倾听伟大投资者、并渴望从他们那里获得认可的人。
It's one of the biases played to my own vulnerability as someone listening to great investors and great investors who seem to be giving me love that I needed.
于是我买了这只股票，昨天我看了眼，发现自那以来已经下跌了62%。
And so I buy this stock and I was looking at it yesterday and it's down 62% since then.
这很好地提醒了我，即使是最优秀的投资者也会犯下代价高昂的错误，你必须自己做研究。
So I think it's a good reminder that even the best investors make these costly mistakes, that you've got to do your own work.
不能把研究工作外包给像卢·辛普森和查理·芒格这样的人，就像我做的那样。
Can't outsource it even to Lou Simpson and Charlie Munger as I did.
我要为自己辩解的一点是，仓位并没有夸张。
And the one thing I would say in my defense is the position size wasn't crazy.
我的意思是，这只股票只占我长期持有伯克希尔哈撒韦股份的一小部分。
I mean, it's a small fraction of the stake that I've had for a while in Berkshire Hathaway.
所以它并没有击垮我。
So it didn't kill me.
这是一个足够小的错误。
It's a small enough mistake.
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这确实是个大错误，但金额不大，足以让人吸取教训。
Well, it's a big mistake, but a small enough amount that it's instructive.
我很乐意分享这些令人尴尬的教训，但它并没有对我的生活产生实质性影响。
I'm happy to sort of share the the embarrassing lessons of it, but it didn't have a substantive impact on my life.
我想这又回到了我之前所说的关于重要性的问题。
I think that goes back to what I was saying before about the importance.
如果你要像我一样犯傻，那就确保你的愚蠢错误不会致命。
If you're gonna be stupid as I was, make sure that your stupid mistakes are non fatal.
总之，这些是我与查理第二次深入交流中学到的一些教训。
So anyway, those are some of the lessons from my encounter, my second great encounter with Charlie.
老实说，之后有些人会问我，为什么你不试着请查理上播客呢？
And to be honest, after that, some people would say to me, well, why don't you try to get Charlie on the podcast?
我觉得那场对话，第二次的那场，实在太美妙了。
And I just thought that was such a beautiful conversation, that second one.
第一次对话已经如此美妙，以至于在某种程度上，我无法再超越它。
The first one was so beautiful that in a way I couldn't improve upon it.
我知道查理的思维依然敏锐，但我也知道他的身体健康状况不佳。
I knew how sharp Charlie still was, but I knew that his physical health was ailing.
我只是想，那就这样吧。
I just thought, let me just leave it there.
能够有机会直接向他学习两次，真是太棒了。
What an amazing thing to have had this opportunity to learn from him directly twice.
我只是想分享一些我向查理学习的个人回忆。
I just wanted to share those very personal memories of learning from Charlie.
威廉，我们先短暂休息一下，听听今天的赞助商。
William Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
当你经营一家小企业时，雇对人至关重要。
When you're running a small business, hiring the right person can make all the difference.
正确的员工能提升你的团队，提高生产力，并将你的业务推向新的高度。
The right hire can elevate your team, boost your productivity, and take your business to the next level.
但找到这样的人本身可能就像一份全职工作。
But finding that person can feel like a full time job in itself.
这就是LinkedIn职位的优势所在。
That's where LinkedIn jobs comes in.
他们的全新AI助手通过为你匹配真正符合需求的顶尖候选人，消除了招聘中的猜测成分。
Their new AI assistant takes the guesswork out of hiring by matching you with top candidates who actually fit what you're looking for.
不再需要翻阅大量简历，它会根据你的标准筛选申请者，并突出显示最匹配的人选，帮你节省数小时时间，在合适的人选出现时快速行动。
Instead of sifting through piles of resumes, it filters applicants based on your criteria and highlights the best matches, saving you hours and helping you move fast when the right person comes along.
最棒的是，这些优秀的候选人已经都在LinkedIn上。
The best part is that those great candidates are already on LinkedIn.
事实上，通过LinkedIn招聘的员工，至少留任一年的可能性比通过主要竞争对手招聘的员工高出30%。
In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor.
一次就招对人。
Hire right the first time.
免费在linkedin.com/studybill发布你的职位，然后推广它以使用LinkedIn职位的新AI助手，让寻找顶尖候选人变得更简单、更快速。
Post your job for free at linkedin.com/studybill, then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates.
免费发布职位，请访问linkedin.com/studybill。
That's linkedin.com/studybill to post your job for free.
条款和条件适用。
Terms and conditions apply.
好的。
All right.
我想让你们想象一下，在夏季高峰期前往奥斯陆度过三天。
I want you guys to imagine spending three days in Oslo at the height of the summer.
你有漫长的白昼、绝佳的美食、漂浮在奥斯陆峡湾上的桑拿房，而且你每一次对话的对象，都是正在塑造未来的人。
You got long days of daylight, incredible food, floating saunas on the Oslo Fjord, and every conversation you have is with people who are actually shaping the future.
这就是奥斯陆自由论坛。
That's what the Oslo Freedom Forum is.
从2026年6月1日到6月20日，奥斯陆自由论坛将迎来它的第十八年，汇聚来自世界各地的活动家、技术专家、记者、投资者和建设者。
From June 1 through the third twenty twenty six, the Oslo Freedom Forum is entering its eighteenth year bringing together activists, technologists, journalists, investors, and builders from all over the world.
其中许多人正站在历史的最前沿。
Many of them operating on the front lines of history.
在这里，你可以亲耳听到人们讲述如何用比特币应对货币崩溃、如何用人工智能揭露人权侵害，以及在审查和威权压力下构建技术的故事。
This is where you hear firsthand stories from people using Bitcoin to survive currency collapse, using AI to expose human rights abuses, and building technology under censorship and authoritarian pressures.
这些不是抽象的概念。
These aren't abstract ideas.
这些都是现实中的人正在使用的工具。
These are tools real people are using right now.
你会和大约2000位非凡的人物同处一室——持不同政见者、创始人、慈善家、政策制定者，这些是你不仅会聆听、还会共进晚餐的人。
You'll be in the room with about 2,000 extraordinary individuals, dissidents, founders, philanthropists, policymakers, the kind of people you don't just listen to but end up having dinner with.
在三天里，你将体验到震撼人心的主舞台演讲、关于自由科技与金融主权的动手工作坊、沉浸式艺术装置，以及在会议结束后仍持续进行的深入对话。
Over three days, you'll experience powerful main stage talks, hands on workshops on freedom tech and financial sovereignty, immersive art installations, and conversations that continue long after the session's end.
这一切都将在六月的奥斯陆发生。
And it's all happening in Oslo in June.
如果这听起来像是你感兴趣的场合，那你运气不错，因为你可以亲自到场参加。
If this sounds like your kind of room, well, you're in luck because you can attend in person.
标准票和赞助者票已在oslofreedomforum.com开放购买，赞助者票提供深度参与机会、私人活动，以及与演讲者的小团体交流时间。
Standard and patron passes are available at oslofreedomforum.com with patron passes offering deep access, private events, and small group time with the speakers.
奥斯陆自由论坛不仅仅是一场会议。
The Oslo Freedom Forum isn't just a conference.
这是一个理念与现实交汇的地方，未来正由亲历者们亲手构建。
It's a place where ideas meet reality and where the future is being built by people living it.
初创公司行动迅速。
Startups move fast.
借助人工智能，它们交付产品更快，并更早吸引企业客户。
And with AI, they're shipping even faster and attracting enterprise buyers sooner.
但大额交易带来了更大规模的安全与合规要求。
But big deals bring even bigger security and compliance requirements.
SOC 2 并不总是足够。
A SOC two isn't always enough.
适当的安全措施可以促成交易，也可能导致交易失败。
The right kind of security can make a deal or break it.
但哪位创始人或工程师能抽得出时间来脱离公司建设呢？
But what founder or engineer can afford to take time away from building their company?
Vanta 的人工智能与自动化功能，能让企业在数日内为大额交易做好准备。
Vanta's AI and automation make it easy to get big deals ready in days.
Vanta 会持续监控您的合规状态，确保未来的交易不会受阻。
And Vanta continuously monitors your compliance so future deals are never blocked.
此外，Vanta 会随着您的业务一同成长，并在每一步都提供及时的支持。
Plus Vanta scales with you, backed by support that's there when you need it every step of the way.
随着人工智能改变法规和买家的期望，Vanta 深知何时需要什么，并已打造了最快、最便捷的路径助您达成目标。
With AI changing regulations and buyers' expectations, Vanta knows what's needed and when, and they've built the fastest, easiest path to get you there.
因此，认真的初创公司都会早早借助 Vanta 实现安全合规。
That's why serious startups get secure early with Vanta.
我们的听众可通过 vanta.com/billionaires 获得 1000 美元优惠。
Our listeners can get $1,000 off at vanta.com/billionaires.
访问 vanta.com/billionaires，立减 1000 美元。
That's vanta.com/billionaires for $1,000 off.
好了，回到节目。
All right, back to the show.
我们现在要转向一个完全不同的主题。
We're going to turn to something very different now.
我们现在要听一段我在这档播客中与莫尼什·帕布里对话的片段，他是一位对冲基金经理兼慈善家，在过去大约十五年里，他与查理成为了非常亲密的朋友和门生。
We're going to listen to a clip from a conversation on this podcast that I had with Monish Pabrai, a hedge fund manager and philanthropist who became a really close friend and mentee of Charlie's over the last, I'd say, fifteen years.
我非常喜欢这段对话，因为它让你深刻而真实地感受到，莫尼什身处查理核心圈层的经历是怎样的，以及他与查理共处这么长时间后学到了什么。
And I love this clip because it gives you a really rich and personal sense of what it's been like for Monish to be in Charlie's inner circle and what he's learned from spending so much time with him.
所以我想先问问你关于查理·芒格的事。
So I wanted to start by asking you about Charlie Munger.
你显然拥有一个非常独特且幸运的位置——作为查理的亲密朋友和导师。
You're obviously in a very unusual and privileged position of having Charlie as a close friend and mentor.
我认为你自2008年沃伦·巴菲特把你介绍给他之后，就一直与查理保持着友谊。
I think you've been friends with Charlie since Warren Buffett introduced you to him back in about 2008.
所以我想请你谈谈，在过去十四年里，和他相处的经历是怎样的？有没有什么特别难忘的时刻？
And so I wondered if you could talk about just what it's been like to hang out with him over the last fourteen years, whether there are any particularly memorable experiences you've had with him.
然后我们再聊聊，在这许多年里，你从查理的圈子中获得了哪些领悟。
Then maybe we can get to what you've learned from being in Charlie's orbit over all these years.
莫汉，是的。
Mohan Yeah.
说实话，我经常觉得自己在做梦，因为从很多方面来看，我们所有人都非常幸运，能够生活在沃伦和查理的时代。
Well, I mean, I have to pinch myself at all of this because I think on many fronts, I think we all of us are very privileged to be living in the time of Warren and Charlie.
这简直就像生活在牛顿、爱因斯坦或者那些我们仰慕的伟人时代一样。
I mean, it'd be kind of like living in the time of Newton or Einstein or any of those luminaries we look up to.
所以这真是太棒了。
So that's wonderful.
就我而言，我从未想过能直接与沃伦或查理有任何互动。
I think in my case, I would have never expected to have any kind of a interaction directly with Warren or Charlie.
这根本不在我的想象范围之内。
Think that was just not part of the equation.
当然，沃伦是收贿赂的。
And then of course, Warren takes bribes.
只要你贿赂得足够多，他就会坐下来和你一起吃饭。
If you bribe him enough, then he'll sit down and have a meal with you.
今年实际上是他最后一次拍卖慈善午餐了。
This year actually, think was the last year that he auctioned off the charity lunch.
我不确定最后拍了多少钱，但那是最后一次了。
I'm not sure what it went for, but that's the last one.
既然他愿意接受贿赂，而我连续几年都出价，但2007年我和盖·斯皮尔最终胜出，赢得了这顿午餐，并在2008年见到了沃伦。
And so since he was willing to take the bribe and I had bid for a few years, but in 2007 Guy Spier and I prevailed and we won the lunch and we met Warren in 2008.
我当时几乎以为这件事到此为止了。
And I pretty much just expected that to be it.
我只是想亲自向他表达感谢。
I wanted to just thank him in person.
我从未想过会与他建立起任何持续的关系。
I did not expect to end up with any type of a ongoing relationship.
在午餐时，沃伦听到我妻子——我前妻——告诉他，她生命中真正的挚爱其实是查理，于是他立刻变得好胜起来。
And what Warren did during the lunch is he got competitive when my wife told him, my ex wife told him that her true love in life really was Charlie.
沃伦立刻告诉她，查理是个非常无趣的人，而他才是两个人中更有趣的那个。
And Warren immediately told her that Charlie is a very boring guy, and I'm really the one out of the two way more interesting.
然后他还说，他会安排一次和查理的午餐，让我们亲眼看看查理有多无趣，从而比较一下谁才是更好的午餐伙伴。
And then he told us that he would arrange lunch with Charlie just so we could see how boring Charlie is and we could compare who was a better lunch companion.
我以为他在开玩笑，但接下来的一周，他的助理给查理的助理发了一条信息。
And I thought he was joking, but then the following week his assistant sent a note to Charlie's assistant.
这直接导致了2009年我们在加利福尼亚俱乐部与查理共进午餐。
And that led to actually in 2009 lunch with Charlie at the California club.
有趣的是，我觉得和查理·芒格的午餐比那场自助餐午餐好太多了。
Actually, the funny thing was I thought that Charlie Munger lunch was way better than the buffet lunch.
这简直就像买一送一，真是太棒了。
It was kind of like buy one get one free, which was great.
当然，你会紧张得语无伦次，诸如此类的情况。
And of course, you get tongue tied and all of this.
我记得查理来参加午餐时，从外套口袋里掏出了一份打印件，上面写着‘谷歌聚焦’。
I remember Charlie came to that lunch and then he reaches into his court pocket and he pulls out this printout, which has Google Focus written on it.
上面列出了我的美国投资组合，也就是13F文件所申报的内容。
It has my US portfolio, the 13 Fs get filed.
他盯着这份投资组合看，而那是2009年，所有东西都崩盘了。
And he's looking at the portfolio, and this is 2009, everything has crashed and burned.
他看着西尔斯控股，那是我投资组合里的一家公司，只是摇摇头，表现出极其强烈的不赞同。
He looks at Sears Holdings, which was in my portfolio, and he just shakes his head like that, quite extreme disapproval.
然后我记得我们大概简短讨论了一下西尔斯，但那天我们见面时，市场已经收盘了。
And then I remember we probably had some brief discussion on Sears and the markets were always already closed that day when we met.
但第二天，我就把西尔斯控股从我的投资组合中清仓了，这可以说是那顿午餐给我带来的巨大即时收获。
But the next day I wiped Sears Holdings out of my portfolio, which was a great, I would say, instant take home value from the lunch.
当然，我也没想到那顿午餐会带来与查理更多的互动和友谊。
And then of course, what I also did not expect is that lunch would lead to additional interactions and a friendship with Charlie.
我从来没想过会这样。
I never expected that.
然后我觉得几年后，我成了他的桥牌替补搭档。
Then I think a few years after that, I became a substitute bridge partner of his.
每个周五下午，查理都会在洛杉矶乡村俱乐部和朋友们打桥牌，当其中一位老朋友无法出席或卧床不起时，他们就开始邀请我。
Every Friday afternoon, Charlie would play bridge at the LA Country Club with his friends, And they started inviting me when one of the old guys couldn't make it or couldn't get out of bed or something.
所以通常我会在周四晚上或周五早上得知自己有了上场的机会。
So usually I'd get to know on Thursday night or Friday morning that we have a slot.
我会说，是的，你不需要提前通知我，直接开车过来就行。
I'd say, yeah, you don't need to give me notice, just drive over.
那些下午真的很棒，因为我们总是先在洛杉矶乡村俱乐部吃午餐。
Those afternoons were really amazing because we would start with lunch at the LA country club.
我会坐在四人桌旁，正对着我的是查理·芒格和里克·古伦。
I'd be sitting there at this table for four and just sitting across from me would be Charlie Munger and Rick Gurren.
我看着这两位人物，他们可不是普通的历史人物。
And I'm looking at these two guys, no historic figures and all of this.
我会向他们问很多关于60年代和他们在太平洋证券交易所初创时期交易的问题，任何和查理共进午餐、打桥牌或晚餐的时光都总是非常有趣。
And I would ask them all these questions about the deals in the '60s and the early days when they were working at the Pacific Stock Exchange And any type of lunch or bridge or dinner with Charlie is always very entertaining.
我的意思是，这既富有教育意义，又非常有趣。
I mean, it's very educational, but it's very entertaining.
我第一次和他共进午餐时，有一件事发生了，当他说话时，我听到了一声‘foo’。
One of the things that happened the first time I met him for lunch was as he was talking, I heard the foo.
我心里想，上帝刚刚说脏话了吗？
And I'm thinking in my head, did God just utter the F word?
当我正在心里消化这件事时，我又听到了另一个F词。
As I'm processing that in my head, I hear another F word.
明白吗？
Okay?
那顿饭期间说了不少F词。
And there were a number of F words during that meal.
后来我意识到，每次见到上帝，F词都滔滔不绝地冒出来。
Then I realized after that, that every time I met God, the F word just flowed freely.
我其实很惊讶，在伯克希尔会议或每日邮报会议上居然听不到F词，因为他的说话方式如此自然，我从未见过他和我互动时不用粗俗语言。
And I'm actually surprised that at the Berkshire meeting or the Daily Journal meeting, there's no F word because it's so natural the way he speaks that I have never seen him on an interaction with me where there wasn't colorful language.
这种情况从未发生过。
That has never happened.
和查理近距离相处这么多年，你在处事方式上有什么改变吗？
Is there something that's changed in the way you operate in the world from actually being up close with Charlie all these years?
他有没有改变你的思维方式？
Has he changed the way that you think
以及行为方式？
and behave?
我会说，我从查理那里学到的最重要的东西，并不是因为他对我讲了一些非常了不起的话——虽然那些话确实非常重要。
Would say that the greatest learnings I've had from Charlie have not come from Well, he said some pretty amazing things to me, so it'd be up there.
我会说，除了他对我讲过的那些话之外，对我产生变革性影响的，更多来自于观察他，而不是听他说了什么；而是观察他是如何行事的，观察他一天是如何安排的，他是如何规划生活的，以及他与孙子孙女、孩子、儿媳或管家等人的互动方式。
I would say that besides some of those things he said to me, have been transformational for me, most of my learning from him on the one on one interactions have come from observing him, not what he's saying but observing how he functions and observing how his day is structured and how he arranges his life and the interaction with his grandkids or interaction with his kids or his daughter-in-law or his manservant and all of that.
我认为，当我只是观察查理与朋友、家人相处，或者当他独自阅读时的样子，这些才真正教会了我更多。
I think that when I just observed Charlie with his friends and family and just with himself when he's reading or something, those have taught me a lot more.
威廉，你有没有有意识地模仿过你从他行为中观察到的那些做法？
William Is there stuff that you've consciously cloned from the things you've observed in the way he behaved?
因为我想起多年前意识到，当你回复邮件时，常常会在打印出来的文件顶部用笔写几个字，然后传真出去。
Because I remember years ago realizing that when you reply to emails, often you would write a couple of words in pen at the top on a printout and have it faxed.
我当时就想，这正是查理的做法。
I was like, That's what Charlie does.
他——实际上，我可能就是从他那里学来的，因为在2009年之前，我就已经收到过他这样写的便条了。
He- And actually, I probably took that from him because I had received notes like that from Charlie much before 2009.
我会给他或沃伦发点东西。
I'd send something to him or something to Warren.
沃伦有时会把东西转给他，然后我会收到回信之类的。
Warren would sometimes send it to him and then I'd get a note back and that sort of thing.
沃伦的回信很多时候是一封信之类的，但查理总是随手写点什么。
And Warren's notes back many times would be a letter and whatnot, but Charlie was always a scribble and whatever.
但我认为我从中获得的最重要的东西是，他坐在客厅里一张类似懒人椅的扶手椅上，这让我感到非常敬畏，至今我依然感到敬畏。
But I think that the biggest thing I took away and it's just so daunting and I still daunted by it is he's set up in his parlor in this kind of lazy boy type easy chair.
他两边各有一张较高的桌子，相对较大的桌子。
And on both sides of him are high tables, relatively large tables.
他身后有很多强光，因为他的视力不是很好。
And there's a lot of high powered lights behind him because his eyesight is not that great.
但我最好的比喻是，他一边堆着一大摞书和其他阅读材料，比如《巴伦周刊》和《价值线》之类的。
But the best analogy I have is that there's a big stack of books on one side and other reading materials and Barron's and value line, whatnot.
另一边也堆着一大摞书。
And there's a big stack of books on the other side.
查理就像一条流水线一样吞噬着信息。
And Charlie is like an assembly line devouring.
我的意思是，这些材料从未读堆到已读堆之间不断流动，就像一台引擎在运转。
I mean, there's an engine of these things running through from the unread pile to the red pile.
我估计他每年阅读的书籍超过500本。
And I would estimate that he's reading more than 500 books a year.
我认为他每天阅读的量超过一本。
I think it's more than one a day.
但他阅读的方式和我们不一样。
Now he doesn't read the way we read.
他大量地浏览。
He's skimming a lot.
尤其是当他发现作者啰嗦或内容松散时，他会更加快速地跳读，只为提取他想要的核心要点。
And he's especially skimming a lot when he finds the author rambling or whatever, and so he's trying to get the nuggets he wants.
而且他阅读的范围极其广泛。
And they are in such a wide range.
通常，有时候我会在周六晚上过去和他一起吃晚饭，那时他正在读一本关于全球变暖的书，可能是关于全球变暖或气候变化的，然后我们就会就此展开讨论。
Usually sometimes I'd go in on a Saturday evening or something to have dinner with him, and he'd be reading something about global warming, some book on global warming or climate change or something, and then there'd be a discussion on it.
有时候他会在读关于幕僚长或罗斯福总统的书，之后我们也会讨论这些内容。
And sometimes he would be reading about the chief of staff or President Roosevelt, and then we'd have a discussion on that.
忘了那个家伙的名字了，是位海军上将。
Forget the name of the guy, Navy admiral.
这个人基本上是罗斯福非常信任的人，而罗斯福信任的人极少。
And this guy basically was Roosevelt really trusted him, and Roosevelt trusted very few.
我的意思是，他这个人非常谨慎，总是把底牌藏得很深，但对利海上将，他却完全信任。
I mean, he was very, very He had a lot of his cards close to his chest, but with Leahy, Admiral Leahy, he had complete trust in Admiral Leahy.
利海上将这个人有点像大学兄弟会里的小伙子。
And Admiral Leahy was kind of like this guy who was like a frat boy.
他喜欢喝点酒什么的，但罗斯福知道他没有其他企图，他忠诚可靠，能向他坦诚地表达意见。
He liked to have his drinks and whatever, but Roosevelt knew that he didn't have another agenda and that he was loyal and that he could get candid opinions and such from him.
利海——大多数人并不知道——在罗斯福政府中拥有巨大的权力，权力极大。
Leahy, which most people don't realize, wielded enormous power, this massive amount of power in the Roosevelt administration.
一点三十
One:thirty
后来我读了一本关于利希的书。
And so there was a book on Leahy, then I read that book later.
这些话题总是东一榔头西一棒子的。
These subjects would be all over the place.
我想先谈谈我们刚播放的莫尼什片段中那个精彩的故事：芒格看了莫尼什的投资组合（我认为是在《股神聚焦》中），立即对他在西尔斯的投资表示反对，而莫尼什随后以他一贯的风格，毫无情绪地、完全冷静地在第二天就把股票卖了。
The first thing I want to dwell on for a moment from this clip that we just played from Monish is the amazing story that he told of Munger looking at Monish's portfolio, I think, in Guru focus, and immediately disapproving of his investment in Sears, which Monish then very characteristically sold without any emotion, just totally dispassionately sold the next day.
巴菲特曾说，查理分析和评估任何交易的速度和准确度都超过世上任何其他人。
And Buffett once said that Charlie could analyze and evaluate any kind of deal faster and more accurately than any man alive.
他说查理能在六十秒内看出任何合理的缺陷。
And he said that Charlie could see any valid weakness in sixty seconds.
我认为，这种发现公司缺陷的能力，正是查理为伯克希尔·哈撒韦带来的关键贡献。
And I think this ability to see weaknesses in companies was really a critical part of what Charlie brought to Berkshire Hathaway.
沃伦曾戏称他为‘可恶的否决先生’，因为每当沃伦对某个潜在投资感到兴奋并告诉查理时，查理总能立刻指出所有不该做的理由。
Warren famously would refer to him as the abominable no man because he could get excited about an investment, a potential investment, and he would mention it to Charlie, and Charlie would just immediately see all of the reasons why not to do it.
所以我认为，这种识别弱点、发现问题的能力，是查理为伯克希尔带来的关键因素。
So I think this ability to see weakness, to see what's wrong is a really important factor that Charlie brought to Berkshire.
第二个值得深思的点，是查理坐在大椅子上，灯光明亮、视力衰退却依然如饥似渴地阅读书籍的生动画面。
The second point to linger on is this very vivid image of Charlie sitting in his big chair with these bright lights and his failing eyes just devouring books.
他是一位博闻强记的读者，一位真正的通才，真正体现了他所说的‘终身学习机器’这一理念。
He was this omnivorous reader, this polymath who really embodies the concept of being what he called a continuous learning machine.
我认为，这是我们能够从查理身上复制的一点。
And I think that's one of the one of the things that we can clone from Charlie.
我的意思是，我永远不可能像查理那样聪明，但我可以多读书。
I mean, I'm never gonna be as smart as Charlie, but I can read a lot.
我永远不可能拥有他那样广博而深刻的知识，但认识到广泛阅读的重要性，并受到他榜样的启发，是非常重要的。
I'm never gonna have his range and depth of knowledge, but knowing the importance of reading broadly and really being inspired by that example is a very important thing.
我看到像蒙什、盖伊·斯皮尔、弗朗西斯·周这样的人都是如此，许多投资者都如饥似渴地阅读，部分正是受到查理的启发。
I see it with all of these people like Monish and Guy Spier and Francis Chew, so many investors who just read voraciously, partly inspired by Charlie.
值得引用查理的一句名言：他在谈到研究投资这类广泛领域时说，我从未见过任何一个在广泛主题上聪明的人，是不持续阅读的。
And it's worth quoting a famous line from Charlie, where he was talking about the fact that when you're studying a broad subject like investing, he said, I've known no wise person over a broad subject matter area who didn't read all the time.
然后他说，关于投资这类事情，如果你认为自己不经常阅读就能做好，那你的想法和我不一样。
And then he said, When it comes to something like investing, if you think you're gonna be good at it and not read all the time, you have a different idea than I do.
所以我认为这一点至关重要。
So I think that's critical.
养成持续学习机器的习惯真的非常重要。
Just the habit of being a continuous learning machine is really important.
第三点在某种程度上更明显，但我认为这一点非常关键，那就是莫尼什提到，他和查理一起打桥牌、在查理家吃晚餐、去他的乡村俱乐部。
And the third point is in some way a more obvious one, but I think a really important one to make, which is Monish is talking here about hanging out with Charlie as Charlie's playing bridge with friends, and he's having dinners at Charlie's house, and they're going to his country club.
正如我们之前听到的，当查理行动不便时，他每周都会参加这些Zoom早餐通话。
And then as we heard before, Charlie was on these Zoom calls for Zoom breakfast every week when it was too difficult for him to get around really easily.
我认为这一点对理解查理至关重要：他非常热爱与朋友相处，他精心安排自己的生活，使其不仅仅关乎赚钱和物质成功。
And I think this is a really vital thing to remember about Charlie, the degree to which he loved hanging out with friends, the degree to which he constructed his life so that it wasn't just about making money and material success.
很大程度上，我认为这关乎人际关系，以及与优秀的人相伴时享受过程。
A lot of it really, I think, was about the relationships and enjoying the journey in the company of fantastic people.
我认为，当我回顾自己从研究伟大投资者身上学到的东西时，对我影响最大的一点就是：当你回首一生时，你希望拥有深厚的人际关系，希望影响过许多人的生活。
And I think one of the things that when I think about what I've learned from studying the great investors that's had the biggest impact on me is just this sense that when you look back at the end of your life, you want to have had these incredibly rich relationships and you want to have touched a lot of people's lives.
我认为查理真正体现了这一点，他去世后之所以有如此多的爱戴与缅怀，正是因为他在这个人层面上触动了如此多的人。
And I think Charlie really embodied that, that one reason why there's outpouring of affection for him since his passing is that he did touch so many people on this personal level.
在我的书的后记中，这部分内容主要探讨什么才是真正富有、真正成功、真正丰盛的人生，我开篇就引用了查理的一句话，我认为这句话完美地总结了这一点：如果你一生中唯一取得的成就就是通过买卖小纸片变得富有，那这是一场失败的人生。
And in the epilogue of my book, which is really about what actually constitutes a truly rich, a truly successful, truly abundant life, I actually opened the chapter with a quote from Charlie that I think sums this up, where he said, If all you succeed in doing in life is getting rich by buying little pieces of paper, it's a failed life.
他说，人生不仅仅是精明地积累财富。
And he said, Life is more than being shrewd in wealth accumulation.
因此，我认为这是我们想从查理身上学到的一个至关重要的教训。
And so I think this is a really vital lesson that we wanna learn from Charlie.
这不仅仅关乎赚钱。
It's not about just making money.
但与此同时，这又是一项极其耗费心力的事业。
And yet at the same time, it is a pretty all consuming business.
成为一名卓越的投资者非常苛刻，同时要建立真正深厚的人际关系也十分困难。
Being extraordinary as an investor is very demonic, and it's hard to build the relationships that are really rich at the same time.
我记得当莫尼什在查理家中拍摄视频时，他问查理关于我的书，查理曾说过类似这样的话：你知道吗，这本书里有没有哪些深刻的见解真正打动了你？
I remember when when Monish when Monish took a video in in Charlie's home where he asked Charlie about my book, he said something like, you know, are there any are there any big insights that really struck you from the book?
查理说，是的。
And Charlie said, Yeah.
我们中有多少人离了婚？
How many of us got divorced?
我认为这是真的，对于许多伟大的投资者来说，维持一段真正充实的婚姻生活非常困难，因为他们太专注于工作，被工作完全占据了。
And I think that's true, that it was very difficult for a lot of the great investors to sustain really rich married lives because they were so focused, they were so consumed with their work.
也许他们中的许多人情感较为淡漠，这也并未对他们的关系起到帮助作用。
Also maybe the fact that a lot of them are pretty unemotional didn't necessarily help in their relationships.
但即便如此，思考什么才是真正丰盛的人生，以及人际关系在其中所占的核心地位，是非常关键的。
But even so, think it's really key to think about this idea of what actually constitutes a truly abundant life and the degree to which relationships are at the heart of it.
无论如何，在下一个片段中，你会听到莫尼什谈到查理性格中另一个非常独特的方面，那就是他在股票问题上极其理性、极其冷静。
In any case, in our next clip, you'll hear Moniz talking about another very distinctive aspect of Charlie's character, which is that he was extremely rational and extremely unemotional when it came to stocks.
但他确实拥有这种非凡的情商，我认为这使他成为一个出色的朋友。
Yet he did have this kind of remarkable emotional intelligence that I think enabled him to be a great friend.
他理解人性。
He understood human nature.
我认为，我们之所以会铭记他，其中一个原因是他撰写了关于人类误判的24个原因的非凡文章，这绝非偶然。
And I think it's not a coincidence that one of the things we'll remember him for is the extraordinary essay that he wrote on the 24 causes of human misjudgment.
我的意思是，他深刻理解人类心理学。
I mean, he understood human psychology.
所以，不管怎样，接下来再听一听莫尼什的说法。
So anyway, here's Monish once again.
当我跟查理谈论股票或其他话题时，他的理性程度非常高，非常高。
I would say that when I talk to Charlie about stocks or different subjects, there's a very high degree of rationality, extremely high degree rationality.
我认为理性是一种非常重要的品质。
I think rationality is a really important trait.
如果你不能保持客观，就不可能做好这些事情。
I don't think you can do these things if you're not going to be objective.
我认为耐心在投资中至关重要。
I think patience is really important in investing.
这是最重要的技能之一。
It's one of the most important skills.
理性是至关重要的。
Rationality is up there.
当我们意识到必须忠于自己时。
Think that when we realize we have to be true to ourselves.
我们意识到自己犯了错，就不能欺骗自己。
We realize we've made a mistake, you cannot lie to yourself.
你必须坦诚面对自己犯了错误这一事实。
You have to be candid about the fact that you've made a
错误，一点三十。
mistake, one:thirty
然后你必须继续前进，从那里重新开始。
and you have to move on and go from there.
关于理性这个话题，我差点忘了问你，大约一年前我在火岛做了一次演讲，我记得那里住着很多基金经理。
On this subject of rationality, before I forget to ask you this, I was giving a talk about a year or so ago on Fire Island, And I remember So there are a lot of money managers living out there.
我当时在谈论这本书，提到查理有多么冷静，以及他在2009年市场最低点买入富国银行时，完全没有恐惧、焦虑，什么都没有。我还在说他多么冷静，像比尔·米勒和霍华德·马克斯这样的顶尖投资者也都一样。
I was talking about the book and I said something about Charlie and how unemotional he is and how when he bought Wells Fargo at the bottom tick in 2009, he just had no fear, no anxiety, nothing about And I was saying how unemotional he was and how that's the same with people like Bill Miller and Howard Marks, all of the best investors.
克里斯·戴维斯与查理关系密切，现在是伯克希尔的董事会成员，非常了解他们两人，事后他来找我，说我的说法并不完全正确。
And Chris Davis, is close to Charlie and is now on the board of Berkshire and knows them both very well, came up to me afterwards and he's like, It's not entirely right.
这比那要更复杂一些。
It's more nuanced than that.
因为如果我没记错的话，他谈到过，当查理的对冲基金——他的有限合伙企业在70年代，大概是1973到1974年那段艰难时期遭遇惨重亏损时，他感到让股东们失望是极其痛苦的。
Because if I remember rightly, he was talking about how when things went horribly wrong for Charlie's hedge fund, his limited partnership back in the '70s, I guess, during that brutal period around 'seventy three, 'seventy four, he said it was extraordinarily painful for him to be letting down shareholders.
你能谈谈这种复杂性吗？
Can you talk about that nuance?
因为我觉得自己还没完全理解这些伟大投资者为何如此冷静。
Because I feel like I haven't quite cracked this idea of how unemotional your great investors are.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，我和查理聊过那段时期，他说当他1974年关闭合伙基金时，他把所有资产以实物形式分配给了合伙人。
I mean, I think I talked to Charlie about that period and he said that basically when he wound up his partnership in 'seventy four, he distributed all the holdings in kind to his partners.
他把那些持仓直接给了他们，并告诉他们：别做任何操作，就继续持有。
He gave them the positions and he told them, Don't do anything, just keep them.
最终，这些头寸中的许多都转化为了伯克希尔的股票，并取得了巨大的成功。
And eventually a lot of those positions got converted into Berkshire stock and they were big home runs.
一些蓝筹股和其他不同的资产被分散到零售业等领域。
Mean, blue chip and different things got diversified retailing and so on.
所有这些都被整合进了伯克希尔。
All got rolled into Berkshire.
因此他说，最终所有人都表现得非常好。
And so he said in the end, all of them did really well.
我认为他在那时决定不再管理资金。
And I think he decided that at that point he did not want to manage money.
我认为他在1974年决定，那不是他想走的方向。
I think he decided at the '4 that that wasn't the direction he wanted to go in.
于是他做出了这个决定，帮助所有人实现了良好的结局，然后继续前行。
And so he made that decision and got everyone actually to a good endpoint and moved on.
威廉，当你评价他缺乏情绪时，你会如何描述他？
William When you judge his lack of emotion, how would you characterize him?
因为他显然和我采访他之前对他的预期不一样，比如写这本书的时候。
Because he's clearly I had this expectation before I went to interview him, for example, for the book.
我以为，天啊，他不容忍蠢人，态度粗鲁，有时甚至非常无礼。
I thought, God, he doesn't suffer fools and he's brusque and he can be really rude.
他有时以粗鲁闻名。
He's sort of famously rude at times.
我记得比尔·米勒告诉我，他曾经在纽约碰见查理，打招呼说：‘查理，你好。’
I remember Bill Miller telling me that he'd walked into him in New York once he'd run into him and said, Charlie, hi.
查理转过头对他说：‘你他妈是谁？’
And Charlie turns to him and says, Who the hell are you?
但后来他们一起散步，聊了一个小时。
And then they end up walking together and chatting for an hour.
你告诉我：‘不，不，他其实是个非常温柔、非常善良的人。’
And you told me, No, no, he's this really soft, really sweet guy.
所以，他确实是一个更加温和、柔软的人。
So there is something there where he's a much gentler and softer human being.
我在想，除了三点半之外，
I'm wondering if in addition three:thirty to being
这种极度理性思考者之外，是否还有一种温柔的情感面，还是说这种高度理性的人往往伴随着情感上的停滞？
this kind of hyper rational thinker, there is this sort of soft emotional side or whether there's a kind of emotional stuntedness that comes with a lot of these great rational
嗯，我认为沃伦和查理都有美好的灵魂，只是这些灵魂被一层坚硬的外壳包裹着。
Well, think both Warren and Charlie have beautiful souls, and those souls are covered with a hard exterior.
他们被一层坚硬外壳包裹的原因，我认为是为了不让自己受到伤害。
The reason they are covered with a hard exterior is so they, I think, don't get hurt.
有太多人带着各种目的接近他们，所以我认为这种外壳保护了他们。
They have a lot of people coming at them with all kinds of things, and so I think this exterior protects them.
我认为，当你进入他们的核心圈子时，这个核心圈子不会面对那层坚硬的外壳，你直接面对的就是真实的他们。
I think when you get to their inner circle, the inner circle doesn't deal with the hard exterior, you're just dealing with the person.
因此，我发现当我和查理打桥牌或共进晚餐时，他和在伯克希尔股东大会上、在舞台上时是完全不同的两个人。
And that's why I find that Charlie is a very different person when I'm playing bridge with him or when I'm having dinner with him versus at the Berkshire meeting, for example, on stage and so on.
完全是两种不同的人。
Are two very different people.
他有着非常强烈的情感。
He has a very high degree of emotions.
我认为他能够控制这些情感。
I think he's able to control them.
查理在我个人生活中的种种挣扎中给了我很多宝贵的建议，我感受到他的同理心非常高。
I have had a lot of great input into struggles I had in my personal life from Charlie, where I found that the empathy level was really high.
这些讨论与投资、金钱或类似的事情无关，而是关于人性的问题。
So these were not discussions related to investments or money or any of those things, they were related to human things.
当我婚姻出现问题并和他讨论这些事时，他表现得非常出色。
And when I was having trouble with my marriage and I discussed those things with him, he was amazing.
他简直令人惊叹，能够帮助我度过难关，并给了我极大的建议。
Was just incredible and was able to see me through and gave me tremendous advice.
最终，我认为我现在的情况比以前好得多。
And in the end, I think I'm in a much better place now than I used to be.
所以查理非常有帮助。
So Charlie was very helpful.
这来自于一个非常温暖、柔和的人，三十比五十
And that came from this really warm, soft person thirty:fifty
他有着极高的同理心和深刻的情感理解力。
with a very high empathy and high emotional understanding and such.
这太美好了。
That was beautiful.
让我感到有趣的是，你在他身上看到了这种看似有点强硬、令人畏惧的外表，却有着温柔的内心。
It's interesting to me that you see this quality in him of having this kind of slightly tough, scary exterior, but a gentle interior.
因为我觉得，这其实也很适合描述你，因为你总是有点让人感到压力。
Because I actually think that's probably a pretty good description of you as well, because you're always kind of slightly intimidating.
而且，随着这些年我越来越了解你、和你成为朋友，我发现你在那副盛气凌人和固执观点之下，其实有着温柔的一面。
And actually, I think the more I've got to know you and become friends with you over the years, I think there's a softness under the sort of bombast and opinion.
我猜，当你在他身上看到这些时，其实也在某种程度上看到了你自己？
I suspect when you see that in him, you're also kind of seeing it in yourself?
我想是这样的。
Well, I think so.
对我而言，真正改变人生、极大丰富我生活的一件事，就是我加入了YPO。
Of the things that really was, I think, life altering for me and enhanced my life a lot was my membership in YPO.
YPO，即年轻总裁组织，其中一个做法是把我们分成八到十二人的小组，称为论坛。
So one of the things that happens with YPO, which is Young President's Organization, is we get put into these groups of eight to 12, which are forum.
论坛的有趣之处在于，论坛内发生的一切都是保密的。
And the interesting thing about forum is that everything that goes on in forum is confidential.
正因为连我的配偶都不能分享论坛里的内容，人们才愿意敞开心扉，谈论连对至交好友都不会说的事。
And because I cannot even share with my spouse what's going on, people are willing to open up about things that they would never open up even with very good friends.
我发现，当你在论坛中敞开心扉时，奇迹就会发生。
And what I found is that in forum magic happens when you open up.
这种事多次发生在我身上。
Many times, this has happened to me.
我已经加入YPO二十五年了。
I've been in YPO for twenty five years.
很多时候，我遇到一个问题，反复在脑子里琢磨了上百次，却始终找不到一个好办法。
Many times I have a problem, and I've wrestled with this problem my head 100 times and I can't really find a good solution.
我会说，我要把这个问题带到我的论坛上，但我并不觉得这些人能帮上我，因为我已经反复思考过了，我挺聪明的，等等。
And I say, I'm going to take it to my forum, but I don't think these guys can help me because I've already thought about it, I'm pretty smart, etcetera.
我把它带到小组里，大约三十分钟内，他们就解决了。
I take it to the group and in about thirty minutes they've solved it.
明白吗？
Okay?
这种情况在我的人生中发生了太多次，我简直震惊了。
And this has happened so many times in my life that I'm just stunned.
我对它感到震惊。
I'm stunned by it.
所以我逐渐意识到，这一点很多人类都不理解：为了从查理那里获得最大价值，我必须把所有底牌都摊出来，好的、坏的、丑陋的，全部坦诚相告。
So what I have come to realize, which a lot of humans don't understand, what I realized is that in order for me to get the most value from Charlie, I have to put my cards on the table, the good, the bad, the ugly.
我必须把所有底牌都摊在桌面上。
I've got to put all the cards on the table.
我必须让他看到完整的全貌。
And I've got to have him see the whole picture.
这对人类来说并不容易。
That is not easy for a human being to do.
我记得第一次这样做的时候，大概是2012年或2013年，当时我在感情上遇到了问题。
I remember the first time, I think it was 2012 or 2013 when I was having issues in my relationship.
我和李·卢聊过这件事。
I had talked to Lee Lou about it.
他说，你真的应该跟查理谈谈这个问题。
And he said, You really should talk to Charlie about this.
但他帮我解决了一些问题，他说，于是我见了查理，把一切都摊开来说了，如果我没有在YPO长期积累的经验，明白一旦坦诚相待就会有奇迹发生，我是不可能做到如此坦诚的。
But he helped me through a few things, but he said, And so I met Charlie and I just laid my cards out, and I could not have laid my cards out if I didn't have that very long history with YPO where I understood that when you lay your cards out, magic happens.
我当时是在上帝面前坦诚一切，而上帝超越人性。
And I was laying my cards out in front of God who's beyond human.
明白吗？
Okay?
他只用了五分钟。
And it took him five minutes.
他不到五分钟就理清了状况，说：好吧，这就是你处理这件事的方式。
It took him less than five minutes to sort through it and said, Okay, this is how you're going to deal with this.
他不仅告诉我该怎么处理，还告诉我结果会是什么。
Not only did he tell me how to deal with it, he told me what the outcome would be.
他说：听着，这就是你要做的，这就是结果，然后我们就能一起走向夕阳了。
He said, Listen, this is what you're going to do, and this is what the outcome's gonna be, and this is where we're gonna ride off into the sunset.
事情完全按照他说的发生了。
And it happened exactly the way he said.
这真是太美妙了。
It's just beautiful.
这是源于非凡的模式识别能力还是情商？
Is that from extraordinary pattern recognition or EQ?
这种能力是从哪里来的？
Where's that coming from?
有趣的是，查理告诉我他从不读小说，我觉得他也很少看电影。
The funny thing is, Charlie told me he doesn't read fiction, and I don't think he sees many movies.
我不太想深入讲这个，因为很多事都很私人，但他给了我一部电影的名字。
I don't really wanna go into this because a lot of this is very personal, but he gave me the name of a movie.
他说：你看过这部电影吗？
He said, Did you see this movie?
我说：看了。
I said, Yeah.
他说：再去看一遍。
He said, Go see it again.
明白吗？
Okay?
我就去看了。
And I did.
这次我是带着他所谈论的背景来看这部电影的。
This time I saw it from the context of what he was talking about.
所以，这就像是，有个人用一部好莱坞电影来帮我解决我遇到的问题，而我根本没想到他居然会看这种电影。
So it's like, here's a guy who's bringing up Hollywood movie to help me with some issue that I'm having, and I didn't think he would even have ever watched a movie like that, for example.
我觉得他见识过太多了。
I think he's seen so much.
当他和我谈论这些问题时，他提到了他那些有类似经历的朋友，而他确实见识过太多。
When he was talking to me about the issues, he brought up his friends who had had similar issues, and he's seen so much.
天哪，98岁了，你什么没见过。
Mean, 98, you've seen everything under the sun.
他有八个孩子，有孙子孙女，还有儿媳、女婿，以及前妻和现任妻子，等等。
He's got eight kids, he's got grandkids, he's got daughter in laws and son in laws and second wife and first wife and all of that.
还有很多朋友、商业伙伴，以及那些曾经对他们耍手段的人，等等。
There's a lot of friends and business associates and people who have acted below the belt with them and all of that.
他们都见识过这一切。
They've seen all of that.
所以沃伦和查理两人能够做到的是，他们对人性的理解极其深刻，而且非常擅长洞察人际关系。
So what both of them are able to do, Warren and Charlie have been able to do, they're able to understand humans so well, And they're so good at understanding their human dynamic.
如果我觉得查理是个出色的投资者，那我更觉得他在帮助我解决个人问题上的能力简直超乎想象。
If I thought Charlie was a great investor, I thought his ability to help me with my personal problems was off the charts.
有一件事让我对沃伦和查理印象深刻，而你对这一点的体会肯定比我深刻得多：我认为他们两人这些年来作为人，都有了巨大的进步。
One thing that strikes me both about Warren and Charlie that you would have a much keener sense of than I do is I think they've both improved tremendously as human beings over the years.
他们一直在自我完善。
They've worked on themselves.
这一点让我非常触动。
I was very struck by that.
我之前提到过，当我参加每日邮报会议时，看到他对待身边人、对待这些追随者的方式，充满了善意。
I've mentioned this before when I went to the Daily Journal meeting and I saw his kindness in the way that he treated people around him, in the way that he treated these disciples.
我还记得，当我们采访结束，他正要离开时，我当然想留住他，多聊一会儿，多问些问题。
And even I remember as he was walking out of our interview, and I was of course trying to detain him and talk longer and ask him more questions.
他以一种略带恳求的语气对我说：‘那些人还在等我。’
And he said to me in this kind of plaintive way, These people are waiting for me.
我不能让他们久等。
I can't keep them waiting.
当时我感受到一种礼貌、正直和善意，甚至可以说，是他对那些专程来看望他的追随者发自内心的爱。
And there was a sense of courtesy and decency and kindness, and I would say actually love for the disciples who'd come to see him.
这让我非常惊讶，因为他一向以严厉著称。
That was really surprising to me given his reputation for toughness.
我觉得Leeloo写过一篇关于这个的文章。
I think I think Leeloo wrote an essay about this.
他们会一起吃早餐，Leeloo总是提前十分钟到，而芒格已经在那里了。
They would meet for breakfast and Leeloo would show up ten minutes before for breakfast and Munger would already be there.
后来他开始提前十五分钟到，芒格依然已经在那里了。
Then he started showing up fifteen minutes before Munger would already be there.
再后来他提前半小时到，发现查理早就到了。
Then he started showing up half an hour before and Charlie was already there.
他一直在想，自己得提前多久才合适。
He was wondering how much before our stated time.
最后查理告诉他，我来得早是为了读报纸。
Then finally Charlie told him, I come early to read my paper.
你没必要提前来。
You don't need to come early.
别管我。
Leave me alone.
然后他们都会早早到达以便工作，之后再一起吃早餐。
Then they would both arrive early to do their work, and then they'd meet for breakfast.
我从查理那里学到了这一点，实际上我改变了自己做事的方式：如果我约了谁早上9点喝咖啡，我一定会确保自己8:45就到。
Learned from Charlie that, and I actually made a change in the way I operate, is to early show every If I have a coffee with someone at 9AM, I'm going to make sure I'm there at 08:45.
所以我认为对他来说，迟到是非常不礼貌的。
So I think for him, it's very uncourteous to be late.
我听说他的一个孙子告诉我，他们全家打算乘私人飞机去奥马哈，飞机原定8点左右起飞，但芒格打算提前到7:15左右就到机场。
And I think one of his grandkids was telling me that they were all going to take a private jet to Omaha, and Munger's I think the jet was supposed to take over 08:00 or something, and Munger's planning to get there at 07:15 or something to the airport.
孙子们试图向他解释，飞机等着我们，不会走的。
The grandkids trying to explain to him the jet's going wait for us, That jet's not going anywhere.
这不是航班飞行。
It's not a scheduled flight.
但这对查理来说毫无意义。
But that didn't mean anything to Charlie.
他比任何其他家庭成员都到得早。
He was there before any other family member.
他就坐在那里，静静地等着。
He just sat there and he's just waiting.
威廉，我来给你讲个关于你的故事。事实上，正如你所知，我在2021年7月左右，和查理以及几位其他杰出投资者进行过一次非常棒的两小时Zoom早餐会。
William I'll tell you a story about this actually that involves you, which is, as I think you know, I had this wonderful two hour Zoom breakfast with Charlie and a few other great investors back in, I think, July 2021.
奇怪的是，他们布置的作业是读我的书，所有人都想讨论这本书，这让我感到无比 inadequately——天啊，我居然要教查理如何投资。
And crazily, they'd said the homework was to read my book and they all wanted to discuss the book, which this is I mean, I can't tell you how inadequate I felt as it's like, Yeah, I'm going to teach Charlie something about how to invest.
当时在场的还有路·辛普森这样的人。
And it was Lou Simpson and people like that.
我知道查理会提早到，因为我读过李录为《穷查理宝典》中文版所写的序言，里面提到查理总是提前到达。
And I knew that Charlie was going to arrive early because I'd read that introduction that Li Lu had written to, I think the Chinese edition of Poor Charlie's Almanac, where I think he talked about Charlie Waits being early.
所以我提前五分钟登录了会议。
So I signed on five minutes early.
结果，会议刚开始时，只有我和查理在通话里，而路·辛普森和其他人，比如马克·尼尔森，都还没上线。
And as a result, I'm on this call alone at the start before Lou Simpson and all these other guys, Mark Nelson get on just with Charlie.
所以我做的第一件事就是对他说，莫尼什和我是朋友，他对你评价极高，这不用说。
And so the very first thing I did actually is I said to him, Monish and I are friends and he speaks incredibly highly of you, obviously.
如果你记得的话，我曾经为我的书采访过你。
I interviewed you for my book, if you remember.
他跟我谈起你时，滔滔不绝地赞美你。
And he said to me, he starts waxing lyrical about you.
他特别提到，莫尼什是个非常有道德操守的人。
He said very specifically, he said, Monish is a very highly ethical person.
他还说，莫尼什非常擅长数学，也非常聪明。
And he said, He's so mathematical and he's so smart.
他说，莫尼什明白，通过坚守道德反而能赚更多的钱。
And he said, He knows he can make more money by being ethical.
他还对我说，像莫尼什和我这样的人，其实我们为道德所获得的赞誉，远不及我们如果在违背自身利益的情况下仍坚持道德时应得的那么多。
And he said to me, People like Monish and me, we actually don't deserve nearly as much credit for our morality as we deserve if we were doing it against our own interests.
他说，我们俩之所以在事业和生活中都表现得更好，正是因为我们的道德选择。
He's like, We're both actually doing better in business and life because we're ethical.
我觉得这对我理解生活、商业以及查理和你都有非常深刻的启发。
And I thought it was a really interesting insight into life and business and Charlie and you.
我想知道你能否谈谈将道德作为竞争优势这一观点，因为我认为，我们在成长过程中，刚进入商界，或观看《继承之战》《亿万》等剧集时，都被灌输了这样的观念：要想成功，就必须冷酷、自私、唯利是图。
And I wondered if you could talk about that idea of being ethical as a competitive advantage, because I think many of us are taught as we're growing up and starting in the business world or watching Succession or Billions or whatever, we're taught that we need to be hard edged and self serving and selfish to succeed.
但这里有一位商界和投资界的德高望重长者却说：不，你其实应该保持善良，而且这并不是一场零和游戏。
And here's this kind of grand old man of business and investing saying, No, you should actually be decent, and it's not a zero sum game.
这在我看来是一个极其重要的洞见。
It strikes me as a hugely important insight.
是的。
Yeah.
而且查理说得完全正确。
And actually, Charlie's absolutely right.
我之所以如此有道德，很大一部分原因正是出于自利——明智的自利。
Probably a huge portion of why I'm so ethical is because of self interest, enlightened self interest.
所以我认为，人们没有意识到的是，生活中大多数事情都是建立在信任之上的。
So I think what people don't realize is most things in life function on trust.
它们不是依靠合同来运作的。
They don't function based on contracts.
它们依靠的是信任。
They function based on trust.
所以，如果你变得非常值得信赖，就会获得巨大的竞争优势，在生活中占据极大优势。
So if you become very trustworthy, it gives you a massive competitive advantage, a huge leg up in life.
问题是，这种可信度并非一朝一夕就能建立，它更像是对数尺度的增长。
The thing is that this trustworthiness doesn't come overnight, but it's kind of like on a log scale.
这有点像诚实，对吧？
It's kind of like truthfulness, right?
我的意思是，有时人们会说一些小谎，但如果你彻底杜绝所有谎言——就像我们之前讨论过的那种力量——就会产生吸引力场，让人觉得可以信任你。
I mean, sometimes result small lies, but if you eliminate all lies, powers of force we've talked about, what happens is that those attractor fields come into play and humans feel they can trust you.
一旦人们觉得可以信任你，整个世界都会为你敞开。
Once humans feel they can trust you, the whole universe is at your disposal.
我们在伯克希尔·哈撒韦公司就看到了这种现象的充分体现。
We see that in spades in Berkshire Hathaway.
伯克希尔哈撒韦公司做各种事情时，只是对某人说一句话，人们就会接受。
Berkshire Hathaway does all kinds of things where they just say something to someone and people will accept that.
他们不需要把这些写成书面文件或类似的东西。
They don't need to have it in writing or anything like that.
只要沃伦的一句话就足够了。
It just Warren's word is enough.
那么，你该如何达到这种境界呢？
And so how do you get there?
你要通过一种始终如一的生活方式来实现，不断证明自己在非常有道德地玩游戏，着眼于长远，并确保你的商业伙伴、供应商以及所有打交道的人都得到极好的对待。
Well, you get there by having a consistent life where you have demonstrated repeatedly that you are playing the game very ethically, playing the long game, and looking at things to make sure that your business partners and vendors and whoever you deal with is treated extremely well.
雷·克罗克曾经说过，麦当劳的根基有三张凳子。
Ray Kroc used to say that there were three stools on which McDonald's stands.
他说：我的特许经营者、我的供应商和我的员工。
He says, My franchisees, my vendors, and my employees.
特许经营者都是企业家，他认为必须确保他们过得非常好。
The franchisees were all entrepreneurs, and he felt he had to make sure that they did really well.
麦当劳的薯条、杯子、盘子等所有供应商，雷·克罗克都希望他们能过得很好。
The people supplying the french fries and the cups and the plates and all of that at McDonald's, Ray Kroc wanted to make sure they did really well.
所以他并不想从他们身上压榨最后一分钱。
So he's not trying to squeeze them for the last penny.
他希望他们能成功，对吧？
He wants them to do well, right?
他说，这是我的生态系统的一部分。
He says that it's part of my ecosystem.
我已经把这些教训铭记于心。
And I have taken those lessons to heart.
如果我的生意有印刷厂合作伙伴，我希望这些关系能持续数十年。
If I have a relationship with a printer for my business, I want those relationships to go on for decades.
我希望印刷厂能做得好。
I want the printer to do well.
我不希望每次都压榨他，到处比价，然后选最便宜的那家。
I don't want to be squeezing him every time and get three quotes and take the lowest and all of that.
我不想那样做。
Don't want to do it that way.
我希望确保公平，不需要货比三家。
I want to make sure that it's fair and we don't need to go to multiple quotes.
我们只是基于信任来经营业务。
We just run our business on trust.
所以，当你对一家公司或一个人表现出信任时，他们会做出非常积极的回应。
And so what happens is that when you show trust in a company or a human being, they react really positively.
我与任何人打交道时的默认前提是：对方是高质量的人或高质量的公司，我可以完全信任他们。
My baseline when I'm dealing with anyone, my baseline is that the other person is a very high quality person or a very high quality company, and I can completely trust them.
然后我会观察他们是否做出违背这种信任的行为。
Then I wait to see if they do stuff which violates that trust.
如果确实违背了信任，我们就换合作方，做别的安排。
If it does violate the trust, we'll move on, we'll do something else.
但我认为，如果你一开始就展现出信任，就会带来很多积极的结果。
But I think when you upfront demonstrate the trust, a lot of good things happen.
我认为，秉持道德、妥善经营会给人生带来巨大的助力，就像彼得·考夫曼说的，如果骗子们知道不作恶能赚多少钱，他们就会停止作恶。
I think this notion of being ethical, running things properly gives you such a tailwind in life that it's like I think Peter Kaufman says, If crooks knew how much money you could make by not being crooked, they would stop being crooks.
因为本质上，诚实能让你赚到多得多的钱。
Because basically you make a whole lot more money by being honest.
而作恶只能让你赚到很少的钱。
You make a very little bit of money by being crooked.
所以，坚持道德和诚实是完全不言而喻的选择。
So it's a complete no brainer to be ethical and honest.
计划：让我们短暂休息一下，听听今天赞助商的信息。
Plan Let's take a quick break and hear from today's sponsors.
乔：当你经营一家小企业时，聘用对的人至关重要。
Joe When you're running a small business, hiring the right person can make all the difference.
合适的员工能提升你的团队，提高生产力，推动你的业务迈上新台阶。
The right hire can elevate your team, boost your productivity and take your business to the next level.
但找到这样的人，本身可能就像一份全职工作。
But finding that person can feel like a full time job in itself.
这就是LinkedIn职位的优势所在。
That's where LinkedIn jobs comes in.
他们的新AI助手通过为你匹配真正符合需求的顶尖候选人，消除了招聘中的猜测成分。
Their new AI assistant takes the guesswork out of hiring by matching you with top candidates who actually fit what you're looking for.
无需再翻阅大量简历，它会根据你的标准筛选应聘者，并突出显示最匹配的人选，帮你节省数小时时间，在合适人选出现时快速行动。
Instead of sifting through piles of resumes, it filters applicants based on your criteria and highlights the best matches, saving you hours and helping you move fast when the right person comes along.
最棒的是，这些优秀候选人已经都在LinkedIn上。
The best part is that those great candidates are already on LinkedIn.
事实上，通过LinkedIn招聘的员工，至少留任一年的可能性比通过主要竞争对手招聘的员工高出30%。
In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor.
第一次就招对人。
Hire right the first time.
免费在linkedin.com/studybill发布职位，然后推广你的职位以使用LinkedIn职位的新AI助手，让寻找顶尖候选人变得更简单、更快捷。
Post your job for free at linkedin.com/studybill, then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates.
免费发布职位，请访问linkedin.com/studybill。
That's linkedin.com/studybill to post your job for free.
条款和条件适用。
Terms and conditions apply.
每一家企业都在问同一个问题。
Every business is asking the same question.
我们如何让人工智能为我们所用？
How do we make AI work for us?
可能性无穷无尽，而盲目猜测风险太高。
The possibilities are endless and guessing is too risky.
但袖手旁观绝非选项，因为有一件事几乎可以肯定：你的竞争对手已经在行动了。
But sitting on the sidelines is not an option because one thing is almost certain, your competitors are already making their move.
借助甲骨文的NetSuite，今天就能让人工智能发挥作用。
With NetSuite by Oracle, you can put AI to work today.
NetSuite是全球超过43,000家企业信赖的头号AI云ERP系统。
NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP trusted by over 43,000 businesses.
它是一个统一的套件，将您的财务、库存、电商、人力资源和客户关系管理整合为单一数据来源。
It's a unified suite that brings your financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM into a single source of truth.
这些关联的数据让您的AI更智能，不再只是猜测。
That connected data is what makes your AI smarter so it doesn't just guess.
现在，借助NetSuite AI连接器，您可以使用任何您选择的AI，连接到您的真实业务数据，并提出您曾经有过的所有问题，从关键客户到现金状况，再到库存趋势。
And now with NetSuite AI Connector, you can use the AI of your choice to connect to your actual business data and ask every question you ever had, from key customers to cash on hand to inventory trends.
无论您的公司年收入是数百万还是数亿，NetSuite都能帮助您保持领先。
Whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you stay ahead of the pack.
现在，NetSuite免费提供商业指南《揭开AI的神秘面纱》，访问 netsuite.com/study 获取。
Right now, NetSuite's free business guide, Demystifying AI at netsuite.com/study.
这份指南免费提供，访问 netsuite.com/study 即可获取。
The guide is free to you at netsuite dot com slash study.
netsuite.com/study。
Netsuite.com/study.
2026年，您终于要付诸行动了。
2026 is the year you finally do it.
这一年，您将不再只是空想，而是真正将其变为现实。
The year you stop sitting on that idea and actually turn it into something real.
我们每个人都有技能、想法和副项目，知道它们本可以做得更好，但梦想与行动之间的区别在于迈出第一步。
We all have skills, ideas, and side projects we know could be more, But the difference between dreaming and doing is taking that first step.
Shopify 为你提供在线和线下销售所需的一切。
Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person.
数百万创业者，包括我自己，已经完成了这一跃，从家喻户晓的大品牌到刚刚起步的初创创始人。
Millions of entrepreneurs, including myself, have already taken this leap from massive household brands to first time founders just getting started.
使用 Shopify，打造你的梦想店铺非常简单。
With Shopify, building your dream store is simple.
你可以从数百种精美的模板中选择，并自定义以匹配你的品牌。
You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates and customize them to match your brand.
设置也非常快速，内置的 AI 工具能撰写产品描述，甚至帮助编辑产品图片。
Setup is fast too, with built in AI tools that write product descriptions and even help edit product photos.
随着你的成长，Shopify 也会与你一同成长，帮助你从一个仪表板处理更多订单并拓展新市场。
And as you grow, Shopify grows with you, helping you handle more orders and expand into new markets all from one dashboard.
在 2026 年，别再等待，立即用 Shopify 开始销售。
In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify.
立即注册每月1美元的试用版，今天就开始在shopify.com/wsb上销售。
Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com/wsb.
前往shopify.com/wsb。
Go to shopify.com/wsb.
就是shopify.com/wsb。
That's shopify.com/wsb.
新的一年，让Shopify陪伴你聆听你的第一个声音。
Hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side.
好的。
Alright.
回到节目。
Back to the show.
我们完全可以从我与莫尼什对话的这段内容中讨论很多话题，尤其是他强调在与查理的关系中保持真实、开放和诚实的重要性。
There's so much we could discuss in this excerpt from my conversation with Monish, not least the importance he placed on being authentic and open and honest in his relationship with Charlie.
但我真的想聚焦于其中一个观点，那就是查理观察到，他和莫尼什发现，通过秉持道德原则，他们反而能赚更多的钱。
But I really wanna zero in on just one idea here, which is Charlie's observation that he and Monish had figured out that they can make more money by being ethical.
正如查理所说，我们俩因为秉持道德准则，在事业和生活中都变得更好了。
As Charlie put it, we're both actually doing better in business and life because we're ethical.
这种见解极其重要，而且非常符合芒格的风格——他相信，以道德的方式经营能为你带来声誉优势，吸引非凡的人进入你的圈子，他们愿意与你合作并帮助你。
It's such an important insight and so distinctive of Munger to believe that you want to operate in this ethical way that gives you a kind of reputational advantage and draws extraordinary people into your orbit, who wanna do business with you and who wanna help you.
我记得2017年那次在每日邮报会议中采访查理时，他谈到自己说：‘我不想压榨我的供应商。’
And I remember Charlie when I went to the Daily Journal meeting where I interviewed him that time in 2017, talking about how he said, I I don't I don't want to brutalize my suppliers.
他说，自己在生活和商业中的哲学就是双赢。
He he said his philosophy of life and business was win win.
他希望自己的供应商能取得成功。
He He wanted his suppliers to do well.
他希望自己的员工能取得成功。
He wanted his employees to do well.
他希望自己的合作伙伴能取得成功。
He wanted his partners to do well.
事实上，查理曾 famously 说过：‘最高尚、最理想的组织文化，是一张由应得的信任编织成的无缝之网。’
And in fact, Charlie famously said that the highest and best culture is a seamless web of deserved trust.
他说，这跟程序关系不大。
And he said, it's not much about procedure.
关键是完全可靠的人之间彼此信任。
It's just totally reliable people correctly trusting one another.
他说，这就像梅奥诊所手术室的工作方式。
And he said, that's the way an operating room works at the Mayo Clinic.
显然，这也是沃伦和查理多年来在伯克希尔哈撒韦的运作方式。
And obviously, it was the way that Warren and Charlie have operated for all these decades at Berkshire Hathaway.
我们的下一个片段与此主题紧密衔接。
Our next clip follows on pretty neatly from this subject.
这是来自我对马克尔公司首席执行官汤姆·盖纳的采访。
It's from my interview with Tom Gaynor, who is the CEO of Markel Corporation.
伯克希尔是汤姆在1990年为马克尔公司购买的第一只股票，此后他一直持有。
And Berkshire was the first stock that Tom bought at Markel back in 1990, and he's owned it ever since.
如果我没记错的话，三十多年来，他在伯克希尔的持股已增长为一个价值约十亿美元的庞大仓位。
If I remember rightly, over thirty four years, his stake in Berkshire has ballooned into an enormous position that's worth something like a billion dollars.
这些年来，他还花了不少时间与巴菲特和芒格相处。
Over the years, he's also spent a good deal of time with Buffett and Munger.
同样，这个片段讲的是建立以信任为基础的关系的力量。
And again, this clip is about the power of building relationships that are based on trust.
我第一次采访你的时候，你跟我说过一句话，我想大概是2014年或2015年，当时我深受触动，现在我念给你听：有时候，人们可以通过夸夸其谈、欺凌、恐吓和狡诈在一段时间内建立辉煌的职业生涯并取得巨大成功，但这些终究会土崩瓦解，总是如此。
There was something you said to me when I first interviewed you, I think probably back in 2014 or '15, that I was very struck by that I'll read back to you, where you said sometimes people can build great careers and enjoy great successes for a period of time through bluster and bullying and intimidation and slipperiness, but that always comes unraveled, always.
有时需要一段时间，但终究会如此。
Sometimes it takes a while, but it does.
那些持续多年、年复一年保持成功的成功人士，我认为他们都是具有深厚诚信的人。
The people you find that are successful and just keep being successful year after year after year, I think you find those are people of deep integrity.
我觉得这真是一个非常有趣的洞见。
I thought there's a really interesting insight.
我为此思考了很久。
And I've struggled with it for a while.
我想部分原因是我曾在一家我工作过的公司里输掉了一场政治斗争。
I think partly because I had kind of lost a political battle at a company where I had worked.
我当时就想，其实某种程度上，蛇赢了。
And I was like, well, actually, think kind of in some ways the snakes won.
也许这本身就是自我欺骗，而我本身也是一条蛇。
Maybe that was self deluding and I was a snake myself.
然后我会去观察政治局势。
And then I would look at kind of the political situation.
我会看到，商业和巨资如何腐蚀了政治，诸如此类。
I would see, you know, the corruption of politics by business and big money and the like.
而且我心里有一部分，你知道吗？
And and there's there's a part of me you know?
另外，查理·芒格曾提到，桑纳·雷德斯通一直是他眼中绝对不想成为的那种人。
And then also, I mean, look, Charlie Munger has talked about how Sumner Redstone was always his example of what I don't wanna be in life.
他说，你看。
And he was like, look.
这人赚的钱比我多得多，但连他的孩子和妻子都讨厌他。
This guy made much more money than me, but even his kids and his wives hated him.
我从未见过萨姆纳·雷德斯通。
And I I never met Sumner Redstone.
我并不是想诋毁他。
I'm not trying to bad mouth bad mouth him.
但你明白我的意思吧？
But you know what I mean?
这个问题是，究竟过这样的生活、做这样的生意，或者以那些极其成功却手段尖锐、留下无数诉讼痕迹的人为反面教材，哪种方式更好？
This question of whether whether it's actually better to live your life this way or to do business this way or or to look at the counterexample of these people who are tremendously successful while having very sharp elbows and leaving a trail of lawsuits in their wake.
你能谈谈这个吗？
Can you talk about that?
因为我觉得有些人只是想当然地认为资本主义是残酷、肮脏、自私的，认为这就是它的本来面目。
Because I feel like some people just assume that capitalism is kind of vicious and nasty and self seeking and that that's the way it goes.
而我认为你其实是在引导我们走向一种可能在长远来看更有效的体系。
And I think you're pointing us towards actually a different system that may actually work better in the long run.
对。
Right.
而且我认为，资本主义比人们所认为的要好得多。
And and I do think that capitalism is a much better system than what it's given credit for.
我认为，商人常常极不擅长传达资本主义体系的积极面。
And I think businessmen oftentimes do a horrible job of communicating the positives of a capitalist system.
所以亚当·斯密，通常被认为是资本主义体系的奠基者和思想创造者，我相信他当时的头衔是爱丁堡大学或格拉斯哥大学的道德哲学教授。
So Adam Smith, who's given credit for being sort of the father and the intellectual creator of the system of capitalism, I believe his title was professor of moral philosophy at University of Edinburgh or Glasgow or wherever he was at the time.
因此，他是从道德角度来理解资本主义的，认为这是一种更优越的体系，并以这种方式撰写了相关著作。
So he approached the idea of capitalism from a moral lens and thought it was a superior system and wrote books about it in in that way.
其次，我认为成功不应该只用单一标准来定义。
Secondly, success, I think, is something that you shouldn't define along only one variable.
成功是一个复杂的方程式。
It's a complicated equation.
成功包含许多不同的因素。
There are a lot of things that go into the idea of success.
所以如果你以体育领域为例，因为一些与体育相关的想法突然浮现在我脑海中。
So if you were to get the realm of athletics because the the things just pop into my head from from athletic stuff.
所以如果你看看穆罕默德·阿里作为拳击手的职业生涯，以及他当之无愧的、被誉为有史以来最伟大拳手的声誉，这大概是真的。
And so if you look at Muhammad Ali and his career as a boxer and his probably reputation well deserved for being the greatest fighter ever, well, that's probably true.
但如果穆罕默德·阿里去打网球或下国际象棋，他可能就不会那么成功了。
But if Muhammad Ali needed to be a tennis player or a chess player, he might not have been so successful.
所以如果你要定义成功，一定要明确你所谈论的是哪个领域。
So if you're gonna define success, make sure you you you define what arena you you're talking about.
仅仅说‘成功’这个词本身是过于局限的。
So just to say the word success in and of itself is is is too limited.
这还不够。
It's not enough.
我对辛纳·雷德斯通或查理·芒格的家庭结构并不了解。
So I do not know the family structures of Sumner Redstone or Charlie Munger for that matter.
我猜测查理·芒格的成功可能比网络居民拥有更多维度，但这只是我个人的纯粹猜测。
I'm guessing that Charlie Munger's success probably has more dimensions to it than cyber resident, but that is just a pure guess on my part.
关于查理·芒格，还有两点：你知道，如果你想成功，最好的方式就是配得上它。
And and two points about Charlie Munger was the notion of, you know, if you want if you want to be success, the best way to do that is to deserve it.
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