133 鸟儿为什么歌唱？——与格琳娜一起探讨

我想指出，本集是在东库林民族的武伦杰里人的土地上录制的。

I'd like to acknowledge that this episode was recorded on the country of the Wurundjeri people of the Eastern Kulin nation.

我向过去的和现在的长者致以敬意。

I pay my respects to elders past and present.

我认识到，这片土地、水道、海洋和天空数万年来一直由武伦杰里人悉心照料。

I recognize that the land, waterways, sea, and sky has been carefully looked after by Wurundjeri people for tens of thousands of years.

欢迎来到周末观鸟。

Welcome to WeekendBerder.

我是你们的观鸟伙伴基尔斯蒂·科斯塔，这个播客旨在让我们一起留意鸟类。

I'm your bird watching buddy, Kirsty Costa, and this is a podcast about noticing birds together.

我很喜欢听到周末观鸟听众的反馈。

I love hearing from WeekendBird listeners.

你们是一群如此有趣的人，有着精彩的故事和有趣的事实，我也非常感谢你们提出的话题建议。

You're such an interesting group of humans with your amazing stories and fun facts, and I also appreciate your topic suggestions.

最近，越来越多的听众请求制作更多关于鸟类交流的节目。

Recently, there's been an influx of requests for more episodes about bird communication.

今天的主题由比安卡·K、查理·K、One R、露西·L、马迪·R、罗宾·S、蒂姆·R、Violent M 和扎克里·H 提出。

Today's topic has been requested by Bianca K, Charlie K, One R, Lucy L, Maddie R, Robin S, Tim R, Violent M, and Xavier H.

你可能还记得格罗妮·克莱里博士。

You might remember Doctor.

她出现在第71期节目中。

Gronje Cleary from episode 71.

她向我们讲解了鸟类身体部位的功能，比如羽毛、眼睑和腿。

She taught us about the function of bird body parts like feathers, eyelids and legs.

自那以后，她写了一本新书，叫《为什么鸟儿会唱歌？》

Since then, she's written a new book called Why Do Birds Sing?

这本书源于我的上一本书《鸟儿为什么那样做》，因为那本书出版后，大家问得最多的问题就是：鸟儿为什么唱歌？

The book came from Why Birds Do That, my last book, because the biggest question coming out of that book was why do birds sing?

它们在谈论什么？

What are they talking about?

它们在交流吗？

Are they talking?

这就像语言吗？

Is it like language?

在为这本书做媒体宣传时，我越回答这个问题，就越会自己思考，意识到我只是以自己已有的方式在回答，但鸟鸣实际上是怎么回事呢？

And the more I answered that question while doing media around the book, the more I kind of thought about it myself and realised, well, I'm just answering this question in the way that I've thought, but what is actually going on with song?

你知道，鸟儿是如何使用它的？

You know, how is the bird using it?

这促使我去研究它，我读到的第一篇论文是一篇被高度引用的论文，讲的是我们如何利用鸟类的大脑来理解人类大脑出现问题时的情况，比如帕金森病、亨廷顿病、阅读障碍、发育性协调障碍等，因为我们能用鸟类的大脑帮助理解人类自身，而这样的例子并不多。

So that led me on to research it And one of the first papers I read is a highly cited paper and is about how we can use the bird brain to understand when things go wrong in our brains, such as things like Parkinson's disease, Hutchinson's disease, dyslexia, dyspraxia and that like the fact that we could use the bird brain to help understand our own and it's not many.

是的，没有其他动物能做到这一点，这充分说明了它们的重要性。

Yeah, there's no other animal we can do that with just goes to show the importance of them.

而且，对我来说，这确实是一个巨大的学习过程，因为我是个生态学家。

And yeah, like it was a major learning curve for me because I'm an ecologist.

所以去理解大脑、理解短期记忆和长期记忆之间的区别、记忆如何从短期转化为长期，这一切对我来说都是全新的学习。

So going into things like understanding the brain, understanding the difference between short term, long term memory, how memories go from short term to long term.

这些对我来说都是完全陌生的新领域。

Like that was all a complete learning curve for me.

所以写这本书时，我压力巨大，经常崩溃。

So it was massive and I burnt out so often writing it.

我当时就想，真的会有人关心这个吗？

And I was like, is anyone even going to care about this?

我是不是对鸟鸣太较真了？

Am I getting really nerdy about birdsong?

你知道，如果周围没有导师会怎样？

Like, you know, what happens if there's not a tutor around?

鸟还能学会唱歌吗？

Can a bird still learn to sing?

如果一只鸟在没有导师的情况下还能学会唱歌，会怎样？

What happens if a staff can still learn to sing?

如果它被隔离饲养，它会学会什么样的歌？

You know, if it's raised in isolation, what song does it learn?

你知道，就像上一本书一样，这种问答形式让我不断追问，一个问题引出另一个问题，再引出下一个问题。

You know, I because it's some that answer question format like the last book, you know, I kept asking one question would lead to another question which would lead to another question.

但我觉得自己太较真了，完全沉浸其中，每天独自写作时，总会想：真的有人会在意吗？

But I felt like I got so nerdy and I got so into it and it was just me writing it every day that I'd be like, oh, anyone even going to care?

我的意思是，我是不是只是在为自己写这本书？

I mean, am I just writing this for myself?

后来我会去公园散步，听到喜鹊在鸣叫，果然它独自在树上练习自己的歌声，那时我就想：澳大利亚人必须知道，我得分享这些信息。

Then I would go for a walk around the park and I would hear the magpie I would hear the magpie warbling and sure enough he'd be in his tree on his own practicing his song and I was like, no Australia needs to know, I need to share this information.

真正支撑我继续下去的，是公众的热情和分享这份知识的渴望，因为我感觉让人们真正理解鸟鸣至关重要，因为鸟鸣始终环绕在我们身边。

So that really kept me going was the passion the public have and the wanting to share this knowledge because I felt like it was so important that people really understand birdsong because it's always around us.

我们总是能听到它。

We always hear it.

克罗尼亚说，她写书的过程基于对科学研究的深度沉浸。

Kronya says that her process for writing books is based on full on deep dives into scientific research.

对我来说，因为我用的是他人的研究，所以我只能使用那些已经存在的资料。

So for me, because it's I'm using other people's research, it was what was already out there that I had to use.

还有那些最新的论文。

And what were the more recent papers.

所以当我查看示例时，尤其想找一些关于澳大利亚鸟类的案例。

So when I'd be looking at examples and try to look for examples done on Australian birds in particular.

是的，就是大量阅读，理解文献，明白为什么他们经常使用毛细血管来研究人类大脑。

Yeah, just a lot of reading, understanding the literature, understanding why you know they use the saprophyne a lot for their experiments to understand the human brain.

所以就是阅读论文，逐步理清这个叙事脉络，这样才能引出下一个问题，再引出再下一个问题。

So just like reading the papers and that kind of getting that narrative correctly that will lead to the next question that led to the next question.

所以这些内容是按顺序来的，因为我确实这么做了。

So it came in order because I really did.

这就像是跳进游泳池。

It's like diving into a swimming pool.

我直接跳进了深水区。

I dived right into the deep end.

我写这本书时完全没有结构或组织。

I had no structure organisation writing this.

我学得战战兢兢，甚至有点自我怀疑，因为我根本看不懂自己读到的一半内容。

I learned and scared to be Jesus out of myself because I couldn't understand half the stuff I was reading.

我当时真的很有趣，因为我跨越了学科，还去研究了心理学，以了解他们在鸟类和人类身上进行认知测试时的情况。

I was really funny because I crossed disciplines and I went to psychology as well to understand kind of when they do cognitive tests on birds and on humans.

这些认知测试究竟在观察什么？

What are these cognitive tests looking at?

因此，他们对西澳大利亚的喜鹊做了大量测试，以研究它们具有何种认知智能，并理解这些测试。

So they did a lot of tests on the magpies from WA to look at what kind of cognitive intelligence they had and understanding those tests.

我经常阅读心理学论文，而心理学论文往往会介绍生态学和科学的背景，而且写得简单得多。

I would often look at psychology papers and the psychology papers would kind of do the background of the ecology and the science and they would write so much more simpler.

所以我读了一篇来自《自然》杂志的非常艰深的论文，当时心想天啊，这简直像在爬山；但当你转向心理学领域的论文时，它们却只是简要提及你读过的那些内容。

So I read this really heavy paper from like nature of science and I'd be like, Jesus, be like climbing a mountain and then you go over to something like psychology and they've got a paper, you know, kind of touches on what you've read.

而且它们写得简单多了。

And they just write it so much more simpler.

因此，从不同学科的文献中阅读，从纯粹的科学转向心理学等领域，这真的很有意思。

So that was really interesting reading from these different disciplines and coming out of just the science into things like psychology.

我特别喜欢格罗尼亚的所有书籍，因为她会梳理所有的科学研究，然后用我能理解的语言表达出来。

What I love about all of Gronia's books is that she looks through all that scientific research and then she translates it into words that I understand.

这部分是因为我的大脑运作方式，以及我需要自己理解它。

It's partly because of the way my brain works and having to understand it myself.

当我向别人解释时，我会使用更简单的语言，因为这样更容易让我发音和理解。

And when I explain it to other people to use that more simpler language because it's easier for me to pronounce and understand.

我觉得这很有帮助，当我读这些厚重的科学论文时，我会想：主要主题是什么？

I think that really helps that I read these big heavy scientific papers and I'm like, well what is the main theme?

但确实，这很棒。

But yeah, that's really nice.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我很感激。

I appreciate that.

格罗尼亚说，鸟鸣在澳大利亚人的日常生活中，以及全世界各地人们的日常生活中都扮演着非常重要的角色。

Gronya says that birdsong plays a really important part in Australian daily life and in the daily life of people living all around the world.

我们总是听到它，总是留意它，但却从未真正理解它在发生什么，也没有认识到它对我们心理健康所起的作用。

We always hear it, we always listen to it, but we never really understand what was going on or giving it the credit for what it does to our mental health.

比如早上醒来听到鸟鸣，感觉放松，和听到城市噪音时醒来形成鲜明对比。

Like the difference between waking up in the morning to birdsong and kind of feeling relaxed as you wake up compared to waking up to urban noise.

所以这种与自然的联系非常重要。

So it's that connection with nature that is so important.

在城市环境中，我们常常失去了这种联系。

That's something we often lose in the urban environment.

尽管我知道我住在墨尔本里士满——一个高度城市化的地区，但大多数早晨我都是被黑鸟的叫声唤醒的。

And even though, you know, I live in Richmond, Melbourne, highly urban area, I get woken up most morning by the blackbird.

我真希望早上能被澳洲喜鹊、欧洲黑鸟的歌声唤醒。

I would love to get woken up by the magpie, the European blackbird.

因此，理解这一点很重要，即使鸟鸣并非来自本地物种，它依然能让你在城市环境中与自然建立联系。

So understanding that, you know, song, even even if it isn't from a native species, it still really connects you to nature and in the urban environment.

正如我所说，我们往往会失去这种联系。

As I said, we tend to lose that.

所以，不妨拥抱我们身边的鸟类。

So kind of embracing the birds around us.

我觉得那些与我们共同生活在城市中的鸟类，需要更多地理解它们的挣扎和鸣叫。

I feel the birds that live with us in the urban area and giving a bit more understanding to their struggle, their song.

我的意思是，它们在歌唱。

I mean, they're singing.

它们必须让自己的声音传出去。

They have to get their voice out there.

但城市里噪音很多，你知道，它们必须适应这些。

And there's a lot

我们最近重温了关于澳大利亚喜鹊的访谈，嘉宾是曼迪·里德利博士。

of urban noise, you know, they have to adapt to that.

你随时可以回到周末维尔达图书馆重新收听。

We recently enjoyed an encore of the interview with Doctor Mandy Ridley about the Australian magpie.

曼迪解释说，澳大利亚喜鹊拥有非常复杂的语言，而格拉尼耶提到，她在撰写《为什么鸟儿会唱歌？》时。

You can pop back and listen to it anytime in the Weekend Verda Library.

Mandy explained that the Australian magpie has a very sophisticated language, and Gragnier says that when she was writing Why Do Birds Sing?

Mandy explained that the Australian magpie has a very sophisticated language, and Gragnier says that when she was writing Why Do Birds Sing?

她花了大量时间翻译关于这种独特鸟类的科学研究。

She spent a lot of time translating scientific research about this very unique bird.

当你听到树上传来摇摆的声音时，那并不是在练习。

When you hear a wobbling in a tree, it's not that's that's it practicing.

那不是一首歌。

That's not a song.

那实际上是在练习音阶，这让鸟类能够演绎出它的鸣唱——这是一种表演性的歌曲，它与群体一起进行，传递着信息：这是我的领地，这是我的鸟群，这是我的同伴。

That is actually rehearsing the scales and that allows the bird then to perform its caroling which is a performance song, it's doing it with its group, it's sending a message, this is my territory, you know, these are my, this is my flock, this is my group.

但当它发出颤音时，是在为自己歌唱；当研究人员观察鸟类大脑的活动时，发现它们在自唱时会获得多巴胺的愉悦反应。

But when it's warbling, it's singing to itself and that when they looked at what was going on in the brain of the bird, they're getting dopamine hits as they're singing to themselves.

因此，它们实际上是在享受为自己歌唱的过程，而这种颤音，如果你仔细听，会发现每次演绎都极为出色。

So, they are actually enjoying singing to themselves and by doing that, that wobbling, if you listen to it, it's not, it's very favorable from rendition to rendition.

像鸣唱这样的表演歌曲总是保持一致，但颤音时，鸟类真的能为歌曲注入自己的节奏和风格。

Well, something like the caroling song's performance is always the same, But with the warbling the bird really gets to put his own swing into the song.

所以你听到它的音调上下起伏，这让我大为震撼，我着迷了。

So you so you hear it going up and down the frequencies that really blew me away and I was fascinated.

我很好奇，如果你拿一只屠夫鸟的蛋，让一只喜鹊来抚养，这只屠夫鸟长大后会唱喜鹊的歌吗？

I would love to know like if you took the egg of a butcher bird and a magpie raised it, would that butcher bird come out singing the magpie song?

它很可能会唱，但要更深入地理解澳大利亚的鸟鸣以及雌鸟的歌声。

It most likely would, but to be able to understand birdsong more in Australia and the female song.

因为长期以来，雌性鸣禽一直被忽视，尤其是在英国和美国，人们认为雌性鸣禽不会唱歌。

So because you know females have been ignored for such a long period of time because you know The UK and America that your female songbirds don't sing.

你需要更多地探索澳大利亚——那里才是鸣禽的起源地，了解像琴鸟这样的鸟类，雌性会抚养幼鸟直到它们独立。

You know, need to explore more in Australia where the songbird actually came from and understand like the lyrebird, the female raises the young until it's independent.

那么，这些幼鸟会学到什么样的歌声呢？

So that young, what song is it picking up?

它是从母亲那里学习，还是从周围听到的雄鸟那里学习？

Is it learning from his mother or is it learning from a male in the area that is listening to?

所以，对我来说，一个非常重要的问题是：我们的雌性鸟类究竟从哪里学到它们的歌声？雌性歌声在自然环境中扮演着什么角色？

So I so that's something a big thing for me is actually where do some of our female birds actually pick up their song from and the role of the female song in the landscape.

我们知道，从极乐鸟的研究中发现，雌鸟会对着蛋唱歌，帮助幼鸟学习‘暗号’。

We know from superb fairy rounds that females will sing to the eggs to help them teach that password.

所以真正理解这一点，我做了很多关于喜鹊的研究。

So really understanding that and I did a lot around the magpie.

对我来说，这本书的主角是喜鹊。

For me, the star of this book was the magpie.

尽管斑胸草雀是许多实验所使用的鸟类，因为全球实验室在进行这些研究时通常都使用这种鸟。

Although the zebra finch is a bird that a lot of the experiments are done on because that's the bird that's used around the world in labs when they're looking at these studies.

鸟类的交流非常迷人。

Bird communication is so fascinating.

在第102期节目中，音乐家露比·吉尔谈到了蓝鸦如何低声为自己练习和自我交流。

In episode a 102, musician Ruby Gill talked about how the blue jay sings quietly to itself for practice and self communication.

这被称为低语歌。

This is known as a whisper song.

格罗尼说，喜鹊也会这样做。

And Gronje says that magpies do this too.

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm talking about.

乌鸦的鸣唱正是如此。

The magpie warble is exactly that.

所以就是这样。

So it's that.

如果你独自听鸟儿唱歌，它在树上，常常躲着，尤其是幼鸟，会非常轻柔地对自己唱。

If you listen to birds by himself and he's in a tree and he's often hiding and especially for the young one he'll do it very quietly to himself.

这是因为它不是在表演。

So that is because he's not performing.

这被称为间接歌声，你有直接歌声，即我唱给其他人听，其他鸟儿听；而间接歌声，是我只为自己唱，只为自己听。

It's called indirect song so you have directed song I'm singing for other people to listen, other birds to listen an indirect song, I'm just listening, I'm just doing this for myself.

他们发现，当这些鸟儿为自己唱歌时，大脑会释放多巴胺，这是一种奖励机制。

And they found that these birds when they were doing it for themselves did have these hits of dopamine, so it was that reward.

但如果你一直花时间表演，你就会不断练习嗓音，照镜子，想着：我这样唱是不是更好听？

But it's like if you spend your time, you know, performing the whole time, you're going to practice your voice, you're going to, you know, look at the mirror and go, do I sound better like this?

我这样唱是不是更好听？

Do I sound better like this?

鸟儿正在探索自己的嗓音，它需要这样做才能唱得更好。

The bird is exploring its vocals and it needs to do this so it can sing better.

就像你学习一门语言时，必须不断练习，否则就会忘记。

Just like when you learn a language, you need to practice that language or you forget it.

所以，是的，世界各地的鸣禽都需要练习它们的歌声。

So that, yeah, so birds around the world, songbirds need to practice their song.

它们需要练习，才能进行表演。

They need to practice to be able to perform.

这让我大为震惊。

That blew me away.

我喜欢它们会这样做。

I like the fact that they do that.

这真是太神奇了。

It's just amazing.

今天，鸟类交流这个话题特别与我相关。

The topic of bird communication is particularly relevant to me today.

我坐在办公室里，试图为我的本职工作写一份报告，但最终我不得不关上窗户，因为耳边全是噪 miner 在后院保卫领地的持续喧闹声。

I've been sitting in my office trying to write a report for my day job, and eventually I had to close my window because all I could hear was the incessant sound of noisy miners protecting their home range in my backyard.

你知道，我们听到这些声音时，总觉得没什么特别的，但实际上它们能通过这种高音调识别出说话者是谁，从而判断是谁在呼叫。

You know, we just hear that and we think there's nothing going on, but they can actually identify each other from that higher pitch tone is where they find out who is actually talking and that leads into or who is calling.

所以，如果你考虑像警报叫声这样的声音，比如乌鸦发出的喂食叫声或警报声，其他乌鸦就能分辨出：哦，那是只幼鸟。

So if you think about something like an alarm call, if that's given to by a young, let's say we look at ravens and raven is given a feeding call or alarm call, others will be able to say, oh no, that's a juvenile.

它不可靠。

He's not reliable.

我不值得浪费精力跑过去看它到底在叫唤什么。

I'm not going to waste my energy going over there to see what he's given out about.

我会直接忽略它。

I'm going to ignore him.

噪 miner 也是同样的道理，它们能识别出是谁在叫，但如果发出叫声的是占主导地位的雄鸟或雌鸟，它们就更有可能过去查看发生了什么。

Noisy Minders do the same, they can identify who's calling, but if it's a dominant male calling or dominant female, they're more likely to go over to find out what's going on.

因此，它们能够通过聆听其他叫声，判断出：我究竟该去帮谁，又该忽略谁？

So they are able to listen to other calls to know well who do I actually want to help And who don't I?

我到底该忽略谁呢？

Who am I just going to ignore out there?

所以，这要复杂得多。

So yeah, it's a lot more complicated.

这就像一种错误的沟通。

It's just like a wrong communication.

这不仅仅是悦耳的声音。

It's not just a pretty sound.

它传递了很多信息。

It's saying a lot of things.

格罗尼亚说，就像人类一样，鸟类一直在倾听彼此的声音，不仅限于自己的物种，还包括生活在

Gronja says that just like humans, birds are listening to each other all the time, not just their species, but the species of other birds that live

它们栖息地中的其他鸟类。

in their habitat as well.

当鸟类在倾听其他鸟的叫声时，它们通常会注意音调以及歌曲或叫声的频率。

When birds are listening to forest fire to another one's call, they're often listening to the pitch and how fast the song or the calls been giving.

所以这就像我可以说两件事。

So it's very much like I can say two things.

我可以说我非常不高兴待在这里。

I can say I am really unhappy to be here.

我作为一个待在这里的人并不快乐。

I am not a happy person to be here.

我非常高兴待在这里。

Am so happy to be here.

我只是感到非常开心。

I am just delighted.

我用两种不同的方式说了这两件事，一种是生气地说的，另一种是温和地说的。

And I said those two things in two different ways and one was said angrily and one was said nicely.

鸟类能够分辨出愤怒和快乐。

The birds can discriminate between the anger and the happiness.

所以其他物种的警报叫声通常非常急促而响亮，这足以让其他鸟类明白发生了什么事，它们确实需要留意。

So the alarm call from another species is usually quite rapid and loud and that's enough for the other birds to understand that something's happening and they do need to pay attention.

但确实，通过窃听其他物种来了解环境中的情况。

But yeah, that eavesdropping into other species to learn about what's going on in environment.

这就像你听 someone 说日语或中文，即使你听不懂语言，但通过观察对方的表情和互动、语调，你往往能判断出：这个人正在谈论开心的事，或者这个人对某事感到沮丧。

It's like if you listen to someone speaking in Japanese or Chinese and even though you can't understand the language, you're watching the person and watching the interaction and the tone, can often kind of say, okay, that person is speaking about something happy or that person's upset about something.

你对鸟叫声就有这种感觉。

You just got that feeling bird sounds the same.

有时人们用‘鸟脑’来形容某人健忘、愚蠢或不聪明。

Sometimes people use the term birdbrain to describe someone as scatterbrained, foolish or unintelligent.

这个说法可以追溯到二十世纪初，当时人们认为鸟类大脑小而简单，这一观念一直持续到20世纪60年代，许多科学家和社会大众都相信鸟类大脑很小。

This phrase dates back to the early twentieth century when people believed that birds had small, simple brains, And that concept lasted with many scientists and people in our society believing that birds had small brains up until the 1960s.

我们现在知道，许多鸟类非常聪明，拥有复杂的大脑，能够解决问题、使用工具，甚至会计数。

We now know that many birds are highly intelligent with complex brains capable of problem solving, tool use and even counting.

格罗尼亚表示，她致力于挑战‘鸟脑’这一术语，因为这一说法仍影响着一些人对鸟类交流的理解。

Gronia says that she's on a mission to challenge the bird brain terminology, which still underlines some people's understanding of bird communication.

当我们研究鸟类的大脑时，可以分为开放型学习者和封闭型学习者。

When we look at the bird brain, you can have open end learners and closed end learners.

封闭型学习者是指一只鸟只学会一首歌，之后不再学习其他歌曲。

So closed end learners is a bird that learns one song and it doesn't learn any more songs.

它会经历一个关键的学习阶段。

It goes through a critical learning period.

它会学会父亲的歌声，并且这一生都会唱这首歌。

It picks up its father's song and that's the song he will sing throughout his life.

像斑胸草雀这样的鸟就是封闭型学习者。

That's a closed down learner such as a Sabra Finch.

而像喜鹊这样的开放型学习者则会倾听。

And then we have opened and learners like the magpie and it listens.

它可以在一生中不断学习模仿。

It can pick up mimicry throughout the life.

它会终生学习新的歌曲和新的鸣叫。

It continues to learn new songs, new new calls throughout his life.

这种区别让我觉得非常有趣，模仿行为让鸟类能够像人类语言一样持续学习。

So that distinction where I found really interesting and mimicry did something that they can continue to learn just like language.

你学会它，就会掌握新词汇。

You pick it up, you learn new words.

所以我觉得这非常有趣，竟然存在这两种不同类型。

So I thought that was really interesting that there are these two different types.

比如屠夫鸟、喜鹊、凤头鹦鹉、鹦鹉，它们都是开放型学习者，会持续吸收新信息。

So, butcher birds, magpies, your cockatoos, your parrots, you know, open and learn as they continue to pick up new information.

当然，它们也会记住周围环境中的声音。

And of course, they'll pick up memory because they listen to what's in their environment.

因此，像消防车之类的机械噪音，它们也会学会。

So artificial noises such as fire brigades or that noise they'll pick up as well.

正如喜鹊所说，它们会终生持续学习。

And as Magby say, continue to learn throughout their lives.

它们会不断掌握越来越多的交流方式。

They continue to pick up more and more communications.

是的，简直太出色了。

Yeah, absolutely brilliant.

在《鸟儿为何歌唱？》中

In Why Do Birds Sing?

格罗尼亚提供了关于鸟类大脑结构的信息

Gronia provides information about the brain structure of

鸟类。

a bird.

鸟类大脑的神经元密度很高，通常每平方毫米的神经元数量比灵长类动物大脑还要多。

Bird brains are densely packed with neurons, often having more neurons per square millimetre than primate brains.

这里面有很多门道。

There's a lot going on.

这些不仅仅是针对冷热的本能反应。

These aren't just doing innate responses to hot and cold.

它们是有意识的小生命。

These are little beings with consciousness.

它们还有自己的小个性。

They have little personalities.

我之前不知道的是，它们也有像我们一样的新皮层。

The other thing I didn't know is that they had a neocortex like we have.

我们的额叶是我们个性的中心。

Our frontal lobe is our personality centres.

让我成为我，让你成为你。

Makes me, me and you, you.

鸟类也有同样的结构。

Birds have the same thing.

它们和我们一样，有着相同类型的功能。

They have the same kind of thing going on that we have.

所以它们确实有个性，它们真的是小小的灵魂。

So they really do have personalities and they really are little souls.

尊重你在城市里看到的鸟类，因为在我们停止生育之前，我们会不断拆除它们的栖息地来建造更多的房屋、学校、教堂和商店，而这些鸟类必须学会适应或死亡——它们确实适应了，搬进了城市，不要因为它们能与我们共存就贬低它们，比如那种被称为‘Purbine鸡’的鸟，它只是因为没有在栖息地被剥夺后束手就擒，才得到了一个糟糕的名字。

Respect the birds you see in the urban areas because until we stop having babies, we're going to keep knocking down their habitat to build more houses, more schools, more churches, more shops and these birds have to learn to adapt or die and they adapt and they come into the urban areas and don't demonize them just because they've been able to live with us such as a Purbine chicken, That got a terrible name just because he didn't roll over and die when the habitat was taken away from him.

它搬到了我们隔壁。

He moved next door to us.

我觉得这太棒了。

I think it's brilliant.

我们有真正的澳大利亚奋斗者，我们需要为我们的城市幸存者留出更多时间。

We have real Aussie battlers, and we need to have more time for our urban our urban survivors.

我必须说，我完全同意格罗尼亚的观点。

I have to say that I agree with Gronia a 100%.

我不喜欢‘垃圾桶鸡’这样的称呼。

I'm not a fan of terms like bin chicken.

尊重所有生活在我们周围的鸟类家族，即使我写报告时不得不关上窗户。

Respect to all the bird families that are living around us, even if I have to shut my window while I'm writing a report.

我有时会在野外指南和像Merlin Bird ID这样的应用程序中看到鸟类叫声和鸣唱的描述，但我必须承认，我从未认真思考过它们的含义。

I sometimes see bird calls and bird songs referenced in field guides and apps like Merlin Bird ID, but I must confess that I've never stopped to properly think about what they mean.

幸运的是，格罗杰在这里为我们解释其中的区别。

Thankfully, Gronje is here to explain the difference.

所以，我所说的鸣唱，更多是为了守护配偶、保卫领地或吸引伴侣。

So songs that I said, it's more performances for mate guarding, mate guarding your territory or attracting a mate.

但那些更频繁的叫声，比如它们之间相互发出的细微啁啾声，其实有助于鸟类相互协调，我觉得这非常有趣。

But the more calls, the more those little little cheeps they give to each other that help, you know, the birds to coordinate themselves with each other, found really interesting.

比如噪钟鹊，它们生活在巨大的领地内，能够识别彼此，并通过叫声相互联系，形成联盟或群体，以共同驱赶捕食者或喂养幼鸟。

So noisy miners, for example, they live in these huge territories or can live in these massive territories and they'll be able to identify each other and be able to call to each other to form either coalitions or tribes depending on whether they want to mob out a predator or whether they're feeding their young.

它们用这些叫声就像我们交流一样，聊天、交谈，来决定是否需要喂养幼鸟、筑巢、洗澡，或者是否有捕食者靠近。

So they use these calls the way we communicate and just chat, talk to each other to actually determine do we need to feed the young, do we need to build a nest, have you had a dustbat, is that predator around?

真正的信息其实藏在这些叫声里，鸟类的‘八卦’正是通过这些叫声传播的。

So the actual calls is where the real information is where the gossip of the bird is happening.

歌声是为你而唱的表演，但如果你想真正了解它们的日常，就去听那些细微的叫声，听它们在和谁交流，它们之间发生了什么，比如你的红背伯劳、小云雀，我觉得它们停落的方式简直太迷人了。

So song is meant for you to hear that's performance, but if you really want to get into the business, listen to the little calls, listen to who are they talking to you, what's going on between them, like your your, mud logs, your your peewees, like I find them absolutely fascinating with the way they'll land.

雄鸟和雌鸟结成伴侣后，常常会合唱，你在城市环境中能听到这种声音，而且非常响亮。

You have the male and female and they're bonded and they'll often do duets and you hear it in the urban landscape and it's so loud.

但同样，这些歌声背后都有含义，要么是在标记领地，要么是在呼唤伴侣。

But again, that has a message, you know, it's either I'm marking my territory, I'm calling to my female.

我只是觉得。

I just it.

是的，从来都不是单纯的噪音。

Yeah, there's always there's never just noise.

鸟类的鸣叫从来都不是毫无意义的。

It's never just the birds are singing that singing mindlessly.

不，这背后一定有原因。

No, That's something going on.

它们这么做是有目的的。

They're doing it for a reason.

它们在进行交流。

They're communicating.

马克·安德森的这段录音记录了两只鹊鸲（也称作peewees或mudlarks）之间的交流。

That recording by Mark Anderson was of two magpie larks, also known as peewees or mudlarks, communicating with each other.

我很喜欢格罗尼亚的总结。

I love Gronja's summary.

鸟的歌声是表演，而鸟的叫声则是八卦。

Bird songs are performance, and bird calls are gossip.

我会记住这一点。

I'll remember that.

格雷恩说，自从她写完那本书以来，她一直在学习如何调整自己的听觉，正确地聆听鸟鸣和鸟叫。

Grainne says that she's been learning how to tune her ear and properly listen to bird calls and songs since writing her book.

如果你想提升自己的聆听技巧，这是她的建议。

Here is her advice if you'd like to improve your listening skills as well.

别被那种‘我得学会每一种鸟鸣’的压迫感吓倒，因为正如我们之前提到的，我们这个国家也有模仿者。

Don't get intimidated by the overwhelmness of, you know, I've got to learn every bird song because as we talked about, we also have mimics in this country.

所以你可能会听到一种鸟，却因为它是模仿另一种鸟而无法辨认出来。

So you might hear a bird and not be able to identify because mimicrying another bird.

只是，当你外出时，静静地听，保持觉察，别把它当成噪音。

Just yeah, just listen when you're out and about just be aware of it and don't think of it a noise.

观察鸟儿在做什么。

Look at what the bird is doing.

把它的叫声或鸣唱与行为联系起来。

Put the call or put the song into it.

这只鸟实际上在做什么？

What is the bird actually doing?

试着找到这只鸟，看看它在做什么，这能帮助你理解它在说什么。

Try to locate the bird to see what it's doing and that can help you understand what's it saying.

所以，它是在外面标记自己的领地吗？

So is it out there marking its territory?

还是它在外面表演，像喜鹊那样勇敢地鸣唱？

Is it got you're out there performing like the magpie doing its caroling nice and brave?

或者它是在呼唤它的伴侣？

Or is it, you know, calling for his mate?

它的叫声很急促吗？

Is it the call very rushed?

它声音很大。

It's very loud.

它是不是有什么不高兴的事？

Is it upset about something?

或者它更平静、更开心，你知道，这只鸟显得更满足。

Or is it more, you know, calmer and just happier and you know, the bird seems more content.

所以，是的，仔细听一听，当你听到这些叫声时，你内心最直接的感觉是什么？

So yeah, just listen and just what is the gut feeling that you're getting from hearing those calls?

这些叫声也在向你传达什么信息呢？

What is it saying to you as well?

因为当你思考我们说话的时候，我在做什么？

Because it is, you think about like when we're talking, what am I doing?

你知道，这能解释我为什么说话。

You know, it acts as why I'm speaking.

所以，是的，观察这只鸟，看看它通过叫声在做什么。

So, yeah, so look at the bird and see what one is doing via his calling.

我们有幸向一些优秀的周末观鸟者学习，比如安德鲁·斯基霍克，他分享了在景观背景下解读鸟语的见解；维基·奥斯汀博士，她研究了雌鸟和鸟蛋中鸟类的叫声与行为；还有尼古拉斯·毕晓普，他分享了聆听鸟鸣的技术。

We've had the privilege of learning from some great weekend birder guests like Andrew Skihok, who shared his insights into bird language within the context of a landscape, Doctor Vicki Austin, who shared her research into the calls and behaviors of female birds and birds in the egg, and Nicholas Bishop, who shared his techniques for listening to bird melodies.

非常感谢博士。

Many thanks to Doctor.

感谢格罗尼亚·克莱里为我们带来了关于鸟类交流的新思考。

Gronia Cleary for giving us new things to think about when it comes to bird communication.

我已经在节目说明中提供了格罗尼亚的网站和社交媒体链接，这些内容可在您的播客应用和周末更好网站上找到。

I've put a link to Gronje's website and social media accounts in the show notes, which are available in your podcast app and on the Weekend Better website.

我将在下一期月度通讯邮件中送出两本格罗尼亚的书。

And I'm gonna give away two copies of Gronje's book in the next monthly letter email.

请访问 weekendbetter.com 订阅，您将自动获得参与抽奖的资格。

Visit weekendbetter.com to subscribe, and you'll automatically go into the running to win.

非常感谢您对《周末更好》的支持。

Thanks so much for your support of WeekendBetter.

有您陪伴在我身边，我感到非常珍贵。

It means a lot to have you here with me.

希望您到目前为止喜欢这个播客，我很快再与您交谈。

I hope you're enjoying the podcast so far, and I'll speak to you again soon.