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这是iHeartPodcast，保证真人。
This is an iHeartPodcast, Guaranteed Human.
你好，艾米丽和塔玛。
Well, hello, Emily and Tamar.
嗨，佩里。
Hi, Perry.
嗨。
Hi.
太激动了。
So exciting.
我们今天有位特别的嘉宾。
We have sort of a guest today.
我们有塔玛·阿维沙伊。
We have Tamar Avishai.
她是我们的制作人。
She's our producer.
塔玛，你想跟听众朋友们说说，为什么我们今天把你拉进你的衣橱里来上节目吗？
And, Tamar, do you want to tell the good people why we have dragged you in to your closet to be on the show with us today?
好的。
Okay.
首先，我的衣橱就是我的录音室，所以咱们别贬低衣橱啊。
Well, first of all, my closet is my recording booth, so so let's not denigrate the closet.
我想让大家知道，塔玛非常专业，她的衣橱里，衣服旁边都装了隔音材料。
I want people to understand that Tamar is so professional that her closet has, like, sound protection on the wall, like, next to her clothing.
这里看起来非常高端专业。
It's a very high end professional look here.
是的。
Yes.
谢谢。
Thank you.
今天，我们确实从听众那里征集了一些小的健康潮流问题，大家有疑问，但可能不需要花四十五分钟深入讨论的那种。
Today, we have actually solicited from our listening audience smaller wellness fads that people have questions about, but that might not necessarily take a forty five minute deep dive.
而且实际上，每次深入探讨我只给你们三分钟。
And in fact, I'm only gonna give you three minutes per deep dive.
不过我们稍后会解释所有规则。
But we'll explain all the rules at at a later time.
我很喜欢这个主意，虽然显然我会是最差劲的那个，你肯定会输掉这个游戏。
So I I love this idea, although, obviously, I'm going to be the worst at this You're going game lose.
在我们玩的这个游戏里。
At this game that we're playing.
我是说，我……
I mean, I'm
在这里你根本没机会。
No not chance for you here.
对，我知道。
Yeah, no, I know.
没关系。
That's fine.
这个我知道，但没关系。
This I know, but that's Okay.
因为你知道，当我们做我们的事情时，我们的朋友和人们总是来找我们，他们说，哦，你应该谈谈吸血鬼面部护理之类的话题。
This because, you know, when we do what we do, our friends come up to us and people come up to us all the time and they're like, Oh, you should, you know, you should talk about vampire facials and stuff.
然后我们就说，哦，这是个好话题。
And we and we're like, Oh, that's a great topic.
但后来我和艾米丽互相讨论，我们就觉得，我不知道我们有没有一个小时来聊这个。
But then as Emily and I bounce it off each other, we're like, I don't know that we have an hour to spend on this.
就像，聊这个是怎么回事其实很快就能说完。
Like, it's a kind of quick thing to talk about what the deal is.
而且这样的提议来了不少，所以我们就想，不如来个“杂烩”集？
And there were enough of these that came in that we came up with the idea of like, what if we did a grab bag?
如果我们把那些能快速回答的小问题都放在一起呢？
What if we just did all those little things that can get answered quickly?
不过说实话，艾米，我在做研究的时候，确实...
Now, to be fair, Em, as I was doing some research, I did...
我当时就想，哦，好吧。
I was sort of like, oh, okay.
这个……
This...
我觉得我们可以把其中一些扩展成更深入的节目。
We could we could build some of these out, I think, into a deeper episode.
但现在先这样。
But for now
当然。
For sure.
我们可以。
We could.
但我觉得大多数这些话题我们三分钟就能讲完重点。
But I think we can hit the high points of most of these in three minutes.
然后我决定把它做成竞赛形式，因为我大部分时间都在Instagram上回答问题，只有九十秒时间，所以我对自己能赢非常有信心，而当我确信自己能赢的时候，我就喜欢引入竞争。
And then I decided it should be competitive because I spend much of my life answering questions on Instagram where I only get ninety seconds and so I'm very confident in my ability to win and that's when I like to introduce competition, when I know
只会带来成功。
Only result in success.
这也是我儿子总想跟我下棋的原因，因为他知道自己会赢。
This is the same reason my son always wants to play chess with me because he knows He knows he's gonna win.
挺容易的。
Pretty easy.
好了。
Alright.
我们让Tamar完全蒙在鼓里了。
We've got Tamar fully closeted.
我得补充一句，她跟这事儿没关系。
Without a dog in this fight, I should add.
走着瞧吧。
We'll see.
我们开始吧。
Let's get started.
我是艾米丽·奥斯特。
I'm Emily Oster.
我是一名经济学家和数据专家。
I'm an economist and a data expert.
我是佩里·威尔逊。
And I'm Perry Wilson.
我是一名医生。
I'm a medical doctor.
今天是2026年9月24日，星期四，欢迎收听《健康真相》。
It's Thursday, 09/24/2026, and this is wellnessactually.
因为现在你从各种渠道接收到海量的健康与养生信息。
Because you're getting a staggering amount of health and wellness information nowadays from every source imaginable.
有些信息很棒。
And some of it is awesome.
而有些嘛，说实话，就是胡说八道。幸运的是，我们俩都懂怎么读研究、怎么分析数据，能告诉你哪些值得关注，哪些可以放心忽略。
And some of it is, well, actually bull Fortunately, we are both people who know how to read studies, how to parse the data, and can tell you what's worth thinking about and what you can safely ignore.
但在我们深入之前，先说明一下，这个播客仅供教育用途，不应被视为医疗建议。
But before we dig in, a note that this podcast is for educational purposes and should not be construed as medical advice.
我们不了解你的具体情况，所以个人健康决策请咨询你的医生。
We don't know your unique situation, so talk to your doctor for personal health decisions.
这周，我们做第一期“健康真相”杂锦集。
This week, we're doing our first ever wellnessactually grab bag episode.
你们提问，我们来回答。
You asked, we're answering.
但首先，休息之后是本周的健康新闻。
But first, the health news of the week after the break.
现在进入本周的健康新闻。
And now for the health news of the week.
佩里，我想从《英国医学杂志》上的一篇文章开始，那是一个著名的医学期刊。
Perry, I wanna start with an article in the BMJ, which is a prominent medical journal.
这是一项关于美国疫苗不良事件报告系统的调查，基本上认为……
This is an investigation about The US vaccine adverse event reporting system, which basically argues that the...
某种组合的……
Some combination of the...
特别是CDC，可能还有一点FDA，没有通过他们那个报告系统适当地报告新冠疫苗的并发症。
Particularly the CDC, maybe a little bit the FDA, did not appropriately report COVID vaccine complications out of this reporting system they have.
这篇文章挺深入的，但我觉得它足够重要，我们应该聊聊。
The article is pretty in the weeds, but I think it's important enough that we should talk about it.
你说得对。
You're right.
这是一个……
It's a...
这个话题有点棘手，但我们会尽量讲重点。
This is a challenging one, but we'll try to keep it to the to the high level thing here.
这很重要，因为显然，新冠疫苗周围有很多阴谋论。
And this is this is important because, obviously, the COVID vaccines are surrounded by a lot of conspiracy theories.
人们对它们也有很多真实的担忧。
There's a lot of genuine concerns about them.
它们也有很多好的方面。
There's a lot of positive things about them.
而且你会接收到大量信息，尤其是上网的时候，说实话，我觉得很多人经常是挑对自己观点有利的数据来说。
And you just get so much information, especially if you're online, from people that, you know, to be honest, I think are often cherry picking data to push their particular point of view here.
所以我们尽量就事论事，看事实。
So let's let's try to keep it to the facts.
这是大卫·威尔曼在《英国医学杂志》上报道的。
This is reported by David Willman in the BMJ.
首先要注意的是，VAERS，也就是疫苗不良事件报告系统，这个数据库简直是一团糟。
So first thing to note, VAERS, vaccine adverse event reporting system, is a disaster of a dataset.
这个系统任何人都可以上报，完全不需要任何证明材料。
This is a system that anyone can report to without any documentation whatsoever.
你甚至不需要证明你打过疫苗。
You don't have to prove that you got a vaccine.
在这个系统里，你随便说什么都行。
You can literally say anything in this system.
所以这就是为什么在VAERS里，你会看到有人报告说疫苗把他们变成了绿巨人浩克。
And so that's why in VAERS, you have reports of, for instance, people saying that the vaccine turned them into the Incredible Hulk.
就像，那……
Like, that's...
那确实是真的。
That is a real action.
是真的。
That is real.
数据里就有。
That's in the data set.
所以里面有很多乱七八糟的东西。
So there's a lot of crap in there.
不过，有人觉得也许可以用一些统计方法来找出罕见的伤害信号。
Nevertheless, the thought is that maybe you can use some statistics to tease out rare signals of harm.
而这一切都关乎罕见事件。
And this is all about rare events.
因为做临床试验的时候，就算你做了个一万、两万人的试验，那些十万分之一或者百万分之一才会出现的情况可能根本不会出现。
Because when you do a clinical trial, even if you do a trial of 10,000, 20,000 people, things that happen to one in one hundred thousand people or one in a million people might not show up.
但是，如果你给三亿人接种疫苗，那这些情况可能就值得关注了。
And nevertheless, if you're giving the vaccine to three hundred million people, well, it might be relevant.
所以我们有这些系统来尽量捕捉那些不良反应。
And so we have these systems to try to capture those adverse events.
CDC之前说过，他们有两种统计方法来分析VAERS里的这些信号。
And what the CDC had said is that they have two statistical approaches to analyzing VAERS for these signals.
一种是CDC自己做的，叫比例报告比，基本上就是把VAERS里看到的情况跟背景发生率做个比较。
One was going to be done by the CDC called proportional reporting ratios, which basically compares the rates of things you see in VAERS to the background rates.
比如说，报告的卒中数量是不是比预期的要多，诸如此类。
So like, are there more strokes than you would expect reported and things like that?
FDA打算用一种叫经验贝叶斯的方法，这个稍微复杂一点，然后他们会比较结果。
The FDA was going to use a technique called an empirical Bayesian technique, which is a little more complicated, and then they would compare results.
所以，他们就是用这两种方法一起来找出疫苗中的罕见信号。
And so they sort of had these two approaches coming together to find rare signals in the vaccine.
现在报告显示，CDC基本上没有做他们的分析，也就是比例报告比。
Now what the reporting shows is that the CDC basically never did their analysis, the proportional reporting ratios.
当时的主任罗谢尔·瓦伦斯基说，FDA用的贝叶斯方法更稳健，所以我们就用那个吧。
Rochelle Walensky, director at the time, said the Bayesian approach that the FDA was using was more robust, and so let's just go with that.
这件事当时没引起什么注意。
That sort of flew under the radar.
现在我们知道，FDA的方法，也就是贝叶斯方法，不够敏感。
Now what we know is that the FDA approach, this Bayesian approach, was not sensitive enough.
所以这些方法的一个区别是，CDC原本要用的PRR方法非常敏感。
So one of the differences in these approaches is that the PRR approach that the CDC was going to use is very sensitive.
它会发现很多假阳性。
It finds a lot of false positives.
比如，如果数据里有两件奇怪的事件，对吧，两个人有……
So like if you have like two weird events in the data, right, two people with...
什么算是罕见病呢？
What's a rare condition?
比如两个人得了某种罕见癌症之类的。
Two people with, like, some rare cancer or something.
CDC的方法可能会把这个信号放大得很厉害。
The CDC approach would have, like, blown that up as a signal.
所以你会得到一大堆假阳性，这在某种程度上……
And so you get all these false positives, which I get in in sort of a...
在……
In a...
在我们当时所处的政治环境下，那些假阳性，我能理解他们的动机，就是觉得人们不会正确看待这些信号，不会把它们当作需要关注的事情。
The political environment we were in, all those false positives, I see the motivation to be like, well, people won't contextualize these properly as, you know, just things to keep an eye on.
贝叶斯模型没那么敏感，可能会漏掉真正的信号。
The Bayesian model is not that sensitive, and you can miss true positives with that.
所以他们采用了贝叶斯方法，而报告显示，当心肌炎数据出来时，主要来自美国军方和以色列，FDA的人都在想，为什么？
So they go with the Bayesian, and the reporting shows that when the myocarditis data was coming out, largely from the military in The US and from Israel, people at FDA were like, why?
我们在VAERS里看不到心肌炎信号。
We don't see a myocarditis signal in VAERS.
就是说，我们应该看到这个信号。
Like, we should.
我们相信它确实存在。
We believe it exists.
在年轻男性中确实有这种真实影响，但系统没有检测到。
Like, it is a true effect in young men, but it wasn't picking it up.
现在，从统计角度看，原因是在美国，我们优先给老年人接种疫苗。
Now, the statistical reason was because in The US, we vaccinated older people first.
所以心肌炎病例相当罕见，而在以色列，他们给全体人口都接种了。
So myocarditis cases were quite rare, whereas in Israel, they did their whole population.
当然，在我们的军队研究中，我们确实给年轻人接种了疫苗。
Of And course, in our military studies, we did vaccinate younger people.
所以信号就出现了。
That's why it came up.
但尽管如此，这个信号并没有被显示出来。
But nevertheless, it wasn't shown.
正因为如此，由于他们统计方法不当，我们延迟发现了心肌炎的信号。虽然这个副作用非常小、非常罕见，而且仅限于年轻男性，但它很可能是疫苗的真实副作用。
And because of that, because of the sort of failure to appropriately do statistics they did, we were delayed on the myocarditis signal, which, though very small and very rare and restricted to young men, is probably a real side effect of the vaccine.
我觉得，除了新冠疫情中一切都政治化、复杂化，很难知道长期该学什么之外，我的收获是，这种用数据方法处理罕见事件的做法很糟糕，效果很差。
I mean, look, I my takeaway from this beyond the kind of everything with COVID was so politicized and complicated that, you know, it's hard to know what to learn for the long term is that this data approach to rare events sucks and is terrible.
而且核心……
And the the core...
所以明确一下，这两种方法之所以结果不同，是因为……
So just to be clear, the reason these two approaches to this differ are that the...
这种经验贝叶斯方法基本上会降低它预期之外的事件的权重。
This empirical Bayes approach Bayes approach basically, like, downweights things that it doesn't expect.
这是一种通俗的说法，但他们有点……
That's, like, a colloquial way to put it, but they kind of...
其中一个输入就是先验概率。
One of the inputs to that is sort of is a prior.
就是，你觉得这件事有多可能发生？
It's, like, how likely do you think this is?
所以它基本上会把罕见事件往零收缩，因为它觉得这些事件相对于另一种方法来说，更像是偶然或者更可能是偶然。
So it basically shrinks rare events towards zero because it thinks of them as, like, probably accident or more likely to be an accident relative to this other approach.
所以这两种方法对数据来说都是合理的。
So these are both reasonable approaches to the data.
实际上，两种方法，或者说你对数据采取的任何方法，都会好得多得多得多，前提是你的数据收集系统不是那种随便什么人都能把自己想的任何东西塞进去的系统，那可不是什么好方法。
Both approaches, in fact, any approach you take to the data would be vastly, vastly, vastly, vastly better if your data collection system was not any idiot can put in anything that they think for whatever's into your data that's not a very good approach.
我们有一些稍微好一点的版本。
And we have some slightly better versions of this.
有一个叫疫苗安全数据链的东西，是医生上报的版本。
There's a thing called the vaccine safety data link, is a doctor reported version of this.
当然，还有其他方法会好得多得多得多得多，比如对各种事情进行全国性监测。
There, of course, would be other approaches to be much, much, much, much, much better, which is like national surveillance of various things.
所以这是个复杂的问题，但对我来说，核心就是我们的数据太糟糕了，因此就很难从中学习……
So it's a complicated problem, but I think the the core for me is just our data stinks and that, therefore, it makes it very learn...
很难从中学习，因为你采取的任何方法都不好。
Hard to learn from because any approach you're taking is bad.
这一点并没有改变大家现在都已经知道的事实，那就是年轻男性中存在罕见的心肌炎风险。
What this doesn't change is the thing that everyone knows at this point in time already, which is that there is a rare myocarditis risk in young men.
大多数人其实不需要为此担心。
Most people, you know, don't need to worry about that.
好的。
Okay.
艾米丽，既然我们在聊疫苗，我要给你放一段特朗普总统的片段，他有一个降低这个国家自闭症率的新想法。
Emily, while we're talking about vaccines, I'm going to play a clip from you from President Trump who has a new idea to reduce the rates of autism in this country.
给你。
Here you go.
我等不及了。
I can't wait.
我很期待。
I'm excited.
我们还将推荐……
We're also gonna be recommending...
不是建议，是要求，要求制药公司在某些情况下必须这么做。
Not recommending, demanding, the drug companies with respect to a certain situation.
也许你想提一下，讨论一下，但自闭症，他们把剂量分成五次注射，每次百分之二十。
Maybe you wanna mention that, discuss it, but the autism that they make their doses in twenty percent shots.
所以你有第一针、第二针、第三针、第四针、第五针。
So you have shot one, shot two, shot three, shot four, shot five.
所以儿童疫苗计划，把每种疫苗分成五次单独的接种，我觉得很有道理。
So the childhood vaccine schedule, each of these vaccines being broken up into five separate visits, I think makes a lot of sense.
我们继续吧。
Let's move on.
对。
Yes.
没什么可说的。
No notes.
首先，要明确一点，没有证据表明疫苗与自闭症有关，所以这个讨论的前提就不成立。
So first of all, just to be clear, there's no evidence that vaccines are linked to autism, so the premise of this discussion is poor.
第二，实际上疫苗不是那样起作用的。
Second of all, actually vaccines don't work like that.
它们的剂量是根据疫苗的量来定的，你知道，病毒或者灭活病毒之类的。
So they are dosed to an amount of vaccine, you know, virus or killed virus or...
这会引发免疫反应。
That prompts an immune response.
所以实际上分成五次，每次百分之二十，很可能根本不会产生免疫反应，因为剂量不够。
And so actually giving it in five doses of twenty percent could easily result in no immune response because Not enough.
你不会有足够的量来产生反应。
You wouldn't have enough to respond.
它不是像这样累加的。
It's not like it adds up like this.
这才是它的工作原理。
That's how it works.
还有……
There...
这个……
This...
任何这种方案都需要进行大量的临床试验，来确定这样的剂量是否有效，确保人们能产生免疫反应，但实际上很可能不会。
Any version of this would require extensive clinical trials of dosing at this to make sure that people responded, which they probably wouldn't.
目前没有批准过这样的疫苗。
There's no approved vaccines like this.
如果人们需要去好几次，他们接种疫苗的可能性会大大降低。
People would be much less likely to get vaccines if they went in, had to go in
五个月。
five months.
安排五次儿科医生预约。
Schedule five visits with your pediatrician.
这是个糟糕的计划，我不赞成。
This is a bad this is a bad plan, and I don't don't approve it.
而且我觉得这个计划也不太可能实现，因为它根本说不通。
And I also think it's very unlikely that we will get this plan because it doesn't actually make any sense.
我是说，我们得指出这里最关键的问题，那就是，你知道，这又是疫苗导致自闭症那套说辞在偷换概念。
I mean, we need to we need to call out the overriding issue here, which is that, you know, this is classic moving of the goalposts of the vaccine autism link.
一开始人们会说，哦，是硫柳汞的问题。
So people first are like, Oh, it's the thimerosal.
就是疫苗里的含汞防腐剂。
It's the mercury preservative in vaccines.
这个研究过了，实际上很多疫苗已经改用其他防腐剂，把硫柳汞去掉了。
That was studied, and in fact, in many vaccines, the thimerosal was removed in the favor of other preservatives.
自闭症发病率没变，跟自闭症也没关系。
No change in autism, no link to autism.
好吧，那也不是这个原因。
Okay, it's not that.
那是
It's
太多了。
Too many.
测试太多了。
Too of tests.
很多时候都是这样。
Many of the time.
一下子全来，太多了。
It's too many all at once.
而且这些东西一直在变来变去，但没有任何证据支持。
And it's just like all these things kind of keep moving and moving and moving, and there's no evidence for any of it.
所以到最后，你提出的方案根本就行不通。
And so, you know, and in the end, you're coming up with, I mean, legitimately unworkable.
这真的是一个行不通的计划。
This is a legitimately unworkable plan.
任何家长都知道，你不可能在孩子出生后的头十年里，每年带他们去五次，就为了打那些必需的疫苗。
Like, any parent knows that you're not getting your kid in five times a year for, like, the first ten years of their life to get the requisite vaccines.
那是不可能的。
It's not gonna happen.
这完全说不通。
It doesn't make any sense.
好吧。
Okay.
但好消息是，如果你不打疫苗，或者因为其他原因需要治疗某种疾病，蒙大拿州为你准备了一个新计划，佩里。
But good news, if you don't get vaccines or in some other way you need treatment for a disease, Montana's got a new plan for you, Perry.
他们批准了一项提案，允许制药公司在蒙大拿州销售未经FDA批准的药物。
They've approved a proposal to allow drug companies to sell non FDA approved drugs in Montana.
我想给你读一篇关于这件事的文章中的一句话，我觉得这句话就是
And I want to read you one sentence from an article about this, which I think is just
一个
the
总结。
summary.
初创生物技术公司告诉Politico，他们希望蒙大拿州能成为他们绕过FDA昂贵且繁琐的药物开发流程、进入美国庞大且利润丰厚的药品市场的捷径。
Startup biotech firms told Politico they hope Montana will serve as their shortcut around the Food and Drug Administration's costly and extensive drug development process to The United States' vast and lucrative drug market.
所以，我的意思是，这样的话，你是不是……
So, I mean, with that, are you...
我觉得这样做肯定不会错。
I don't see how we could go wrong with that.
我觉得，只要我们心里装着股东的最大利益，那就是我们的北极星。
I I I mean, as long as, we have the best interest of the shareholders at heart, I think, that's our North Star.
没错。
It is.
这个FDA，真是最糟糕的。
This FDA, it's the worst.
他们老是搞什么测试啊安全啊的。
They're constantly with testing and the safety.
真是的，唉。
It's like, ugh.
所以，真是一群废物。
So What a bunch of losers.
完全同意。
Totally.
这真是个扫兴的事。
It's such a buzzer.
他们就是那些害怕变革的人。
They disruptophobes.
所以，
So
这跟“尝试权”运动有点关系，但我觉得两者之间有一些非常重要的区别，我想提一下。
this is kind of related to the Right to Try movement, but I think there's some really significant differences that I I wanna touch on.
尝试权是一个合理的辩论，就是说如果你得了绝症，有一种药已经证明是安全的，比如它不会让你死，不会让老鼠死，也不会让一期临床试验的人死。
So right to try was a legitimate debate where it was like if you have a terminal condition and there's a drug that has been shown to be safe, like it doesn't kill you, it doesn't kill mice, and it doesn't kill people in the phase one trial.
一期临床试验只关注安全性。
Phase one trials are just safety.
他们甚至不衡量疗效。
Like, they don't even measure efficacy.
它不会让你死。
It doesn't kill you.
那你就应该有权利去试试，反正你都要死了。
Then you should have a right to just, like, try it because whatever, you're going to die anyway.
这其实有伦理上的争议，比如这样做是否合乎伦理。
And there's ethical debates about this actually, like whether it is ethical to do that.
但总的来说，尝试权法案已经通过了，也有相应的机制来实现。
But broadly, the right to try legislation has gone through, and there are mechanisms to do this.
但有一些限制，通常是你必须患有危及生命的疾病，且没有其他治疗选择，另外，制药公司不能从你身上赚钱。
But there are some caveats, one generally being that, you you have to have a life threatening condition without other options for treatment, and two, that the drug company can't make money off of you.
这你知道，应该是出于利他主义的事情。
This is a you know, it's supposed to be an altruistic type of thing.
当然，也许制药公司能多了解一些他们的药物，但这并不是盈利性的活动。
Sure, maybe the drug company learns a bit more about their drug, but it's not a profit making enterprise.
蒙大拿州说，好吧，一期试验的安全数据必须要有。
Montana says, Okay, the phase one, the safety data does need to be there.
不能是毒药。
It can't be poison.
就这些。
And that's it.
所以你可以有任何病症，不一定要危及生命，也不一定要没有治疗方法。
So so you can have any condition, doesn't have to be life threatening, doesn't have to be anything that doesn't have a treatment.
没有这样的规定。
There's no rules like that.
而且公司可以随意向你收费。
And the company can charge you whatever they want for it.
所以，你知道，他们想赚多少利润都行。
So, you know, they can make whatever profit they want.
这实际上为每个卖假药的骗子提供了一个机制，对吧，让他们可以说，好吧。
What this sets up is a mechanism for basically every shyster with snake oil, right, to to to say, okay.
飞到蒙大拿来，我要收你五万美元，然后给你输注我在所谓的实验室里发明的、只做过最少安全测试的东西，就这样。
Well, fly to Montana, and I'm going to charge you $50,000 and I'm going to infuse this, you know, whatever I invented in my, you know, quote unquote lab that I did, you know, minimal safety testing on, and that's it.
而且，你知道，FDA的存在是有原因的。
And, you know, FDA is there for a reason.
这个国家曾经有一段时间没有安全测试，很多人因此丧命。
There was a time in this country when there was no safety testing and lots of people died.
还有一段时间没有有效性测试，很多人被坑了。
And there was a time when there was no efficacy testing and lots of people got taken advantage of.
其实，安全测试比有效性测试更早出现。
And actually, safety came before efficacy.
FDA后来增加了有效性测试，因为市面上假药太多了。
The FDA added efficacy testing because there was so much snake oil out there.
那时候有太多乱七八糟的东西在卖，大家都不知道该怎么办。
There was so much stuff that you could buy and whatever that people were selling that no one knew what to do.
我……
I am...
我真的觉得尝试新事物的权利非常重要，但这并不是那种情况。
I I genuinely think the the right to try stuff is very, very important, and this is not that.
所以，不。
And so Nope.
我有点担心。
I'm concerned.
好。
Okay.
本周的健康新闻就到这里。
That's it for the health news of the week.
现在我们进入“杂项”环节。
And now we get to grab bag.
我要请塔玛进来，她会解释一下计分和规则。
And I'm gonna invite Tamar in, and she's gonna explain the scorekeeping and rules.
好。
Okay.
其实我一直都在，
I actually never left,
但我现在就在这里，已经解除静音了。
but here I am off mute.
好的。
Alright.
所以，就像我说的，我们向听众发出了征集，请他们分享自己那些短小又荒唐的健康潮流。
So as I said, we sent out a call to the listeners to give us their short, ridiculous wellness fads.
我们收到了很好的反响。
We got a really nice response.
最后我们只选了12个。
We ended up only picking 12.
所以我们有12个，我们会轮流来，各位。
So we have 12 that we are going to alternate, you guys.
你们每人有三分钟时间。
You will get three minutes each.
我的计时器就在这里，时间快到时，我会提前三十秒提醒你们。
I have my timer right here, and you will get a thirty second warning before the time runs out.
关于我们的计分规则，只要你在规定时间内完成，不超时也不提前太多，就能得两分。
In terms of our point system, you get two points for staying within the time limit, not too long or too short, by the way.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
佩里每次提到《星际迷航》都能额外加一分。
Perry gets an extra point every time he references Star Trek.
艾米丽每次提到耐力跑也能额外加一分。
Emily gets an extra point every time she references Endurance running.
你们俩要是说出“剂量决定效果”这句话，就能各得半分。
Both of you get a half point if you say the dose makes the point.
但如果提到孟德尔随机化，就要扣25分。
You And lose 25 points for referencing Mendelian randomization.
好的。
Okay.
行。
Alright.
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
我可不想因为艾米丽太生气，还得把那些爆麦的杂音都剪掉。
I don't wanna have to edit out all of the hot mic clipping for how angry Emily gets.
所以最后来个“心动还是放弃”，我们会收集大家的语音留言和社交媒体片段。
So end with a smash or pass, and we will have voice memos from people and social media clips where available.
大家都明白规则了吗？
So does everybody understand the rules?
我准备好了。
I'm ready.
好。
Yes.
还有积分规则。
And the point system.
基本上，积分规则看起来有点复杂，但我相信你不会骗人。
Basically, the point system will look opaque, but I trust you to not be a liar.
对。
Yep.
太好了。
Great.
好。
Okay.
艾米丽，你先来。
Emily, you are going first.
好。
Okay.
你的问题是，洗冷水澡能减少生病的天数吗？
And your question is, do cold showers lead to fewer sick days?
开始。
Go.
好问题。
Great question.
好的。
Okay.
关于这个，2016年有一项研究。荷兰的一些研究人员找了一些人，鼓励他们每天用温水洗澡，然后在最后用冷水冲三十秒、六十秒或者九十秒，持续一个月。
There is a study on this from 2016 in which some researchers in The Netherlands took people and they encouraged them to finish their usual enjoyable warm shower with thirty, sixty, or ninety seconds of cold water every day for a month.
所以我想有些人同意参加了这项研究。
And so I guess some people agreed to be in this study.
我也不知道为什么。
I don't know why.
然后他们跟踪这些人是否生病。
And then they tracked whether they were sick.
好的。
Okay.
结果是这样的。
Here is what happened.
那些洗冷水澡的人确实更少请病假，但他们只是……
The people who took the cold showers were actually less likely to take sick days from work, but they just...
他们生病的次数其实一样多。
They got sick just as much.
所以冷水澡似乎并没有让他们少生病，但不知怎么的，他们能硬撑着去上班或者什么的，我不确定这是好事还是坏事。
So the cold shower seemed to make them not be less sick, but somehow be able to push through sickness or something, which I'm not sure is a good thing or not a good thing.
这让我想起前几天听安德鲁·胡伯曼说，如果我跳进冰水里，我就能学会克服恐惧，因为泡在冰水里实在太难受了。
This feels to me like the other day when I listened to Andrew Huberman explain to me that if I got in a cold plunge, I would, like, learn to push through my fears because being in a cold plunge is so awful.
所以我觉得这就像你洗冷水澡时，你会想，天哪。
So I guess this is like you get in a cold shower, you're like, oh my god.
我要死了。
I'm gonna die.
然后你又想，好吧，我没死。
And then you're like, well, I didn't die.
看来我即使生病了也能去上班。
I guess I can go to work even though I'm sick.
所以这个试验还是有一些问题的。
So there are some problems with this trial.
其中一个问题是它不是双盲的，因为你知道你的淋浴是冷的，所以也许这就像安慰剂效应。
One is that it's not blinded because you know if your shower is cold, and so maybe it's like the placebo effect.
比如，我感觉自己像绿巨人，然后我就觉得我什么都能做。
Like, I feel like the Hulk, and then I'm like, I could do anything.
而且，我只是……
And, also, I just...
再说一次，我不确定这是好事，因为只是去上班，然后把所有同事都传染了，而他们可能没有洗冷水澡，所以他们只是待在家里。
Again, I'm not I'm not sure this is good because just going to work and, like, getting all your coworkers sick, and they probably aren't taking cold showers, so they're just staying home.
所以这看起来有点好坏参半。
So it seems like a bit a bit mixed.
说实话，这对我来说就像是一个如果你想知道答案，就应该自己试试的地方，因为你完全可以拿自己做实验，你知道……
This honestly feels to me like a place where if you wanted the answer, you should just try it for yourself because you can totally experiment with your own, you know...
我们都喜欢追踪数据。
We all love to data track.
你可以用你自己的冷水澡做实验。
You could experiment with your own cold showers.
但我绝对不会这么做，因为洗澡是人生一大享受，而在洗澡最后加九十秒的冰水，听起来简直会毁了我一整天。
But I would never do that because showering is one of life's great pleasures and taking a cold shower, adding ninety seconds of freezing water at the end of my shower just sounds like it would totally ruin my day.
所以我对冷水澡不感兴趣，但我能理解有人想试试，不过我觉得他们不该试。
So I'm a pass on the cold shower, but I can see someone wanting to experiment with it, but I don't think they should.
我表现得怎么样，Tamar？
How'd I do, Tamar?
好的。
Okay.
你还有四十秒。
You've got forty seconds left.
你能挤进耐力跑吗？
Can you squeeze in endurance running?
搞定。
Bam.
就是……
It's...
如果你跑完了，那你……
If you finished running, then you...
不。
No.
我不……
I don't...
天哪。
Gosh.
好吧。
Okay.
我只需要……
I I only have to...
我要准备下一个了。
I'm gonna work on my next one.
我真的觉得我已经……
I really feel like I've...
我训练的时候大概是九十秒，所以我得再补充一些细节。
I'm kind of trained for ninety seconds, and so I'm gonna have to get more details.
我觉得就算我们没到三分钟也没关系。
I think it's okay if we don't hit three minutes.
如果是……
If it's...
要是……
What if...
你知道吗？
You know?
我之前
I was
听说有个积分系统，好吧。
told there was a point system Okay.
因为时间太短会被扣分，佩里。
For going too short, Perry.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
你不能改变规则，佩里。
You can't change the rules, Perry.
你不能改变规则。
You can't change the rules.
不能中途
Just make up the rules in
随便定规则。
the middle.
好吧。
Okay.
你有八秒钟。
You've got eight seconds.
剂量决定毒性吗？
Does the dose make the poison?
不。
No.
其实，不是这样的。
Actually, doesn't.
结果发现，不管是三十六还是九十，都没什么区别。
It turns out it didn't matter whether it was thirty six or ninety in the
好的。
Okay.
干得漂亮。
Nicely done.
开个好头。
Way to start us off.
佩里，有你一条语音留言。
Perry, we have a voice mail for you.
是的。
Yep.
请讲。
Go ahead.
嗨，艾米丽和佩里。
Hi, Emily and Perry.
我一直在读《身体从未忘记》这本书。
I've been reading the book, The Body Keeps the Score.
书中关于创伤会对大脑和身体产生持久影响的论点让我非常着迷。
And I'm really fascinated by its argument that trauma can have lasting effects on the brain and the body.
但我也听说，书中引用的一些神经科学和研究，自上次出版以来，有些被夸大了，或者受到了质疑。
But I've also heard that some of the neuroscience and the studies the book cites have been overstated or been challenged since it's last been published.
而且我的很多朋友都在向别人推荐这本书。
And a lot of my friends are recommending this book to other people.
我只是好奇，这本书里有多少内容真正得到了当前研究的支持，哪些部分我们应该更加持怀疑态度？
I just am curious how much of this book is actually supported by current research, and what parts should we be more skeptical of?
谢谢。
Thank you.
等等。
Wait.
在你开始之前，我先补充一下，那其实是两段视频拼在一起的。
Before you start, let me just add that that was actually two clips together.
一个是有人问语音信箱的问题，另一个是社交媒体上的视频，大概在解释《身体从未忘记》这本书的问题。
One was the person asking the voicemail question, and the other was a social media video that was kind of explaining what the Body Keeps the Score issues are.
所以她并没有在问题下面配上那种煽情的音乐。
So she did not put the sappy music under the question.
对。
Yes.
很公平。
Very fair.
好的。
All right.
佩里，你来吧。
Perry, go.
好的。
Okay.
《身体从未忘记》。
The Body Keeps the Score.
可能有些人不知道，这是2014年贝塞尔·范德科尔克写的一本书。
For those of you who don't know, this is a 2014 book by Bessel van der Kolk.
这本书的核心观点是，那些让人难以承受的经历，尤其是像童年长期遭受虐待和忽视这样的情况，并不会作为记忆储存在大脑里，而是会变成碎片化的生理状态。
And the general theory of that book is that overwhelming experiences, especially things like chronic childhood abuse and neglect, are not stored in the brain as memories per se, but as fragmented physiologic states.
所以书里会说身体卡在威胁模式，或者大脑里的杏仁核过度活跃之类的。
So it uses terms like the body gets stuck in threat mode or like you get this overactive amygdala in your brain.
这本书算是典型的流行科学读物，它确实引用了一些真实的研究，但同时也犯了那种毛病，就是过度依赖神经科学的某些方面，而忽略了其他很多相关的研究。
This is sort of a classic pop science book in that it does cite some actual research, but does that thing where it leans way too heavily on some aspects of neuroscience and ignores a whole bunch of other neuroscience.
这本书特别依赖的是一些脑部扫描的结果，这些扫描显示，当人们回忆创伤时，大脑中负责语言的布罗卡区域会变得不活跃。
So what what the book leans heavily on is some brain scans that suggest that when people are recalling trauma, a part of the brain called Broca's area, which is responsible for speech, goes dark.
它的活跃度会降低。
It's not as active.
范德科尔克由此得出的结论是，创伤无法通过语言来解决。
And the leap that van der Kolk makes with this is that therefore trauma cannot be addressed with words.
它表现为生理状态，你需要通过生理性的方法，比如瑜伽、神经反馈、这种眼部肌肉运动练习，实际上最近还有MDMA辅助疗法，来处理所有这些创伤。
It is manifested by physiologic states, and you need to do physiologic things like yoga, neurofeedback, this eye, ocular muscle movement exercises, and in fact, more recently, MDMA assisted therapy to actually process all of this trauma.
好的。
Okay.
问题是，这很可能不是真的。
The problem is that this is probably not true.
比如，创伤不编码记忆这个论点，其实是相当错误的。
Like, the argument that trauma doesn't encode memory is pretty wrong.
事实上，大多数数据表明，创伤被记得太清楚了。
In fact, most of the data suggests that trauma is remembered too well.
比如，人们对他们的创伤经历有过于生动的记忆。
Like, people have too vivid memories of their traumatic experiences.
这方面的经典研究是2003年的《记住创伤》。
The sort of classic work on this is called remembering trauma from 2003.
《身体从未忘记》里还有一种氛围，让我有点想起那种恢复记忆的氛围，或者说是那种风潮……
There's also a vibe in the body keeps the score that reminds me a little bit of the, like, recovered memories vibe that happened or fad that...
说“风潮”可能不太准确，但九十年代末确实发生过这样的事，在治疗师的引导下，人们“回忆”起童年经历，但这些事其实从未发生过。
Fad is probably the wrong word, but that happened in the late nineties where, you know, guided by therapists, people were, quote unquote, remembering experiences in their childhood that actually never happened.
这会造成很大的心理伤害，不仅对记忆被植入的那个人，显然也对他们的家人等，因为他们会被指控虐待之类的。
And that can do a lot of psychological damage, not only to the person in whom those memories are being implanted, but obviously to their family members and whatnot who are being accused of things like abuse.
三十秒。
Thirty seconds.
总的来说，让人们认识到童年创伤对一生的影响是好的。
You know, overall, forcing people to recognize the lifelong impacts of childhood trauma is good.
童年创伤确实重要，但没有真正的证据表明这些基于身体的方法比传统的谈话疗法更好。
Like, childhood trauma is important, but there's no real evidence that these body based approaches are any better than traditional talk therapy.
过去确实会编码在我们的身体里。
You know, there there is the past does get encoded in our bodies.
这就是为什么在《星际迷航：下一代》的“创世纪”一集中，导致船员退化的病毒会起作用。
And that's why in the Star Trek, The Next Generation episode Genesis, the virus that caused the crew to devolve was effective.
过。
Pass.
干得漂亮。
Well done.
停笔吧，星际迷航。
Pencils down, Star Trek.
我喜欢你在最后二十秒内答出来了。
I like you got it in the last, like, twenty seconds.
太厉害了。
Amazing.
我没你那么擅长这个。
I'm not as good at this as you are.
我还能再答十分钟呢。
I could have gone for, like, ten more minutes.
好吧。
Alright.
我会变得更好的。
I'm gonna be better.
完全同意。
Totally.
走吧。
Let's go.
继续。
Keep it going.
完全同意。
Totally.
好的。
Okay.
那么，Emily，关于吸血鬼面部护理，这到底是怎么回事？
So, Emily, about vampire facials, what's the deal with vampire facials?
我看到金·卡戴珊在推销这个，看起来像是最痛苦的化学换肤，还配了句广告语：感受你自己血浆的力量。
I saw Kim Kardashian plugging them with what looked like the most excruciating chemical peel with the tagline, feel the power of your own plasma.
这到底是什么鬼？
What the actual fuck?
开始吧。
Go.
好的。
Okay.
那，什么是吸血鬼面部护理？
So so what is a vampire facial?
吸血鬼面部护理就是用微小的微针在脸上扎，然后他们……好的。
Vampire facial is when you take tiny microneedles and microneedle your face, and then they okay.
让我从头说起。
So let me back up.
我要……
I'm gonna...
我在用我的时间。
I'm using my time.
首先，我们取你的一些血，然后……
First, we take some of your blood and then...
不是从你脸上抽的。
Not from your face.
然后我们把它放进离心机里转，把血液中的血小板浓缩出来。
And then we spin it in a centrifuge so we concentrate the platelets of the of the blood.
接着你用一堆细小的微针扎自己的皮肤，然后把血涂在上面。
And then you prick your skin with a ton of tiny microneedlings, and you rub the blood all over it.
这样那些血小板血浆就能渗进去，原理是这些血小板会释放一些很厉害的成长因子，让胶原蛋白更好地工作。
So the the, like, platelet plasma, like, goes in, and the idea is that these platelets are releasing some kind of, like, awesome growth factors, and they're gonna make your collagen work better.
微针的好处就是能通过你制造的那些小伤口，把东西真正送进去。
And then the microneedling is good because it really gets it in there with all the tiny wounds that you have created.
金·卡戴珊确实发过这个，你可以想象，听我这么描述，这挺恶心的。
And and Kim Kardashian did post this, and it's, like, as you might imagine from my description, it's gross.
基本上就是，你拿血往脸上抹，把血浆涂在脸上。
It's, like, basically, you're, like, taking blood and, like, smearing it all over your face, and, like, it's like, you smear the plasma on your face.
脸上已经被那些小针扎得血淋淋的了。
It's already bloody from all the tiny needles.
但如果能让你看起来好看，我觉得完全值得。
But if it makes you look good, I think it's totally worth it.
好看比舒服更重要。
It's better to look good than to feel good.
我们都懂这个道理。
We all know that.
完全同意。
Totally.
好吧。
Okay.
那这真的有用吗？
So does this work?
其实不太有用。
Not really.
对痘疤可能有点效果，但你知道，到底好不好……
There's a little bit of evidence for, like, acne scarring, maybe, although, you know, like, whether it's good...
是否比普通微针更好，还不完全清楚。
Is better than regular microneedling, not totally clear.
对于一般的皱纹和光泽，当然有一些小规模研究，大概都是微针吸血鬼面部护理的供应商做的。
For the general kind of wrinkles and glow, of course, there are some small studies presumably all run by the purveyors of the microneedling vampire facial thing.
所以这真的不是……
And so it really is not the...
这不是拥有美丽光泽肌肤的秘诀。
This is not the secret to beautiful glowing skin.
那是肉毒杆菌。
That's Botox.
不是。
No.
开玩笑的。
Just kidding.
但，是的，实际上。
But, yes, actually.
但其实不是。
But not really.
我们以后会专门做一期节目讲这个，不过现在先放一放。
We're gonna have an episode about that, but we can put that put that aside.
三十秒。
Thirty seconds.
好。
Okay.
但只是……
But just...
我只是……
I just...
其实有一件非常重要的事要说，就是这玩意儿实际上可能有危险。
One thing actually very important to say about this is that it actually can be dangerous.
所以曾经有一个……
So there was a...
比如2018年就有一集，讲的是有人在一家水疗中心做这个，结果真的感染了艾滋病。
An episode in, like, 2018 in which some people actually got HIV from a spa that was doing these.
所以，哦
And so Oh
天哪。
my god.
因为当然，这里面有很多血，等等之类的。
Because, of course, there's a lot of blood and and so on.
所以，你……
So you you...
那当然不是典型的……
That that is, of course, not a typical...
这不是常见的并发症，但任何时候，如果有人抽你的血，拿去做点什么，再抹回你满脸是血的脸上，你一定要确保他们是个正规的地方。
It's not a typical complication, but anytime people are taking your blood and doing stuff with it and rubbing it back on your bloody face, you should make sure that they are a reputable location.
我可不做这个。
I am a pass.
吸血鬼面部护理，坚决不碰。
Hard pass on vampire facials.
太好了。
Excellent.
我也是。
Me too.
我倒是挺喜欢那句广告语：感受你自己血浆的力量。
I do like the tagline, feel the power of your own plasma.
我是说，那确实……对。
I mean, that's Yeah.
那真是……
That's
不错。
good.
我倒没觉得那么……
I don't feel it that
经常。
often.
我
Me
和其他人。
and others.
那需要在你脸上扎很多小针。
You need tiny needles in your face for that.
好的。
Okay.
佩里，再来一个，然后我们快速更新一下分数。
Perry, so one more, and then we're gonna do a quick score update.
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
电线离房子太近导致的电磁辐射问题是怎么回事？
What is the deal with the EMF craziness from power lines too close to the house?
我会把EMF拼出来，免得你浪费时间。
And I will spell out EMF so you don't burn up the time.
就是电磁频率，就像《风骚律师》里那样，我想。
That's electromagnetic frequency, like in Better Call Saul, I think.
好的。
Alright.
我放段录音给你听。
I'm gonna play you a clip.
我这里有EMF检测仪。
So I've got my EMF reader.
我们四处走走，检查一些常见的家庭位置，看看它们在EMF检测仪上表现如何。
Let's walk around and check some common household spots and see how they pan out on the EMF reader.
这是微波炉。
Here's the microwave.
我们不用微波炉，但我知道很多人用，所以我觉得肯定得把微波炉包括进去。
We don't use the microwave, but I know a lot of people do, so I figured I should definitely include a microwave.
这是微波炉关着的状态。
This is the microwave off.
这是微波炉关着的时候。
That's microwave off.
我放点东西进微波炉，看看读数会怎么变。
Let me put something in the microwave and see how that changes.
天哪。
Oh my god.
好。
Alright.
所以这是两个一起的情况。
So this is both.
那个哔哔响的东西
The beeping thing
就是我按了一下
came just from me clicking the
按钮，而且在这边它一直在响，佩里。
button And on this far it's beeping, Perry.
我希望你不是站在微波炉旁边用它的。
I hope you're not standing next to your microwave when you're
用的时候。
using it.
它亮着红灯，还在响。
It's red and it's beeping.
好的。
Okay.
开始。
Go.
电磁场。
EMF, electromagnetic fields.
这个我们完全可以做一整期节目，因为这里面有太多好的物理知识可以聊了。
This we could do a whole episode on because there's so much good physics to talk about here.
所以我真的很想，我想先把这个话题放一放。
So I really want to I want to put a pin in that.
好的。
Okay.
有一些相关性数据显示，住在高频输电线附近与某些儿童白血病有关联。
There is some correlational data that living near high frequency power lines has an association with some childhood leukemias.
这个现象在好几个地方都有发现。
This has been shown in several different places.
但这还没有被证实，也不一定是因果关系，不过我们确实注意到了这一点。
This is not confirmed, not necessarily causal, but it is something that we are aware of.
这和网上那些想卖给你的东西完全是两码事。
It is completely different than the stuff they're trying to sell you online.
所以那些网上卖的电磁场检测仪，其实所有东西都是电磁场。
So those meters that they sell online for electromagnetic fields, everything is an electromagnetic field.
每个电源插座，无论是60赫兹还是120赫兹，如果你在欧洲的话，都会产生电磁场。
Every power outlet at 60 Hertz or 120 Hertz if you're in Europe generates an electromagnetic field.
灯光本身也会产生电磁场。
Light coming from your lights generates an electromagnetic field.
实际上，可见光产生的电磁场强度大约是WiFi路由器或微波炉产生的电磁场的百万倍甚至更高。
In fact, the electromagnetic field from visible light is about a thousand orders, a million orders of magnitude stronger than the electromagnetic field that comes from your WiFi router or your microwave.
所以如果你真的担心电磁场，那你应该完全生活在黑暗中。
So if you're really concerned about electromagnetic fields, you should be living completely in the dark.
我听到的就是这样。
That's what I'm hearing.
这些都不是电离辐射，电离辐射有足够的能量破坏化学键，从而损伤DNA，比如紫外线。
None of these things are ionizing radiation, which has enough power to break chemical bonds and therefore, you know, damage DNA, something like UV light.
它们都远低于这个水平。
They're all well, well below this.
之所以会考虑高压电线，唯一的原因是因为它们会产生大规模的磁场。
The only reason there's even any consideration for the high frequency lines is because they generate a magnetic field at scale.
大约在0.3到0.4微特斯拉的强度，这比微波炉运行时产生的磁场强得多，而且可能覆盖整个房子。
It's about the order of point three to point four microteslas that is much stronger than you than a magnetic field that you get from a running current from your microwave, for example, and it can be the whole house in it.
有研究表明，长期暴露在这种强度的磁场下可能会有一些问题，但那些都是非常罕见的儿童白血病之类的，至于你家里那些电子设备什么的，那纯粹是胡说八道。
There's some suggestion that chronic exposure to magnetic fields on that order might have some problems again, but very, very rare childhood leukemias and all this other stuff about your household electronics and like your that's all it's literally BS.
就像我的电压表一样，它能检测到电流，就像我的火线检测器一样，这样我在换灯具之类的时候就不会触电。
Like, it's detecting electricity the same way my little voltmeter, like my live wire detector detects electricity so that I don't shock myself when I'm, you know, changing a light fixture or something like that.
电磁场是万物运作的基础，除了重力和核衰变以及核聚变，我想。
Electromagnetic fields is how everything works except gravity and nuclear decay and fusion, I guess.
它无处不在。
It's everywhere.
那如果我孩子站在
So if my kid is standing in front of
皮肤前面。
the skin.
它们是非电离的。
They are non ionizing.
再说一次，这比你的孩子站在灯光前所接收的能量要少得多。
And again, it's much less energy than your kid standing in front of a light.
光之所以不会触发那个检测仪，是因为它的强度是电的上百万倍，但它的频率是每秒10的14次方，来回振荡得太快了，检测仪根本捕捉不到。
The only reason the light doesn't set off that meter because it's a million times stronger is because light has a frequency that's 10 to the fourteenth times per second, which is way flipping back and forth, which is way too fast for the meters to detect.
这超出了它的分辨率，而电的频率是60赫兹，所以它能检测到。
It's just beyond their resolution, whereas electricity is 60 hertz because that's how we have which it can detect.
就这么简单。
That's it.
不然的话，因为外面有光，检测仪会一直亮红灯。
Otherwise, the meters would be blaring red all the time because there's light outside.
三十秒。
Thirty seconds.
我听着觉得我需要一个更好的检测仪。
I'm hearing I need a better meter.
你需要的是
What you need
一个更灵敏的检测仪。
A more sensitive meter.
我觉得大家需要记住的是，如果你……
I think the thing people need to take home is that if you...
如果时空出现裂缝，发射反向快子脉冲，我们就能关闭那个裂缝，但你必须在时空的三个点同时进行。
If there's a rift in spacetime firing an inverse tachyon pulse, we'll close that rift, but you have to do it at all three points in spacetime.
等等。
Wait.
那是《星际迷航》里的情节吗？
Was that a Star Trek thing?
显然是的。
Clearly.
所以很明显。
So Obviously.
我嘛，我嘛，我对科学不太在行。
I'm a I'm a I'm pass on not science.
对电磁场的事就不操心了。
On worrying about electromagnetic fields.
就像担心引力场一样。
It's like worrying about gravitational fields.
就像……
It's like it's...
欢迎来到物理世界。
Welcome to physics.
嗯……
There...
这不是问题。
It's not an issue.
别浪费你的钱。
Don't waste your money.
哇。
Wow.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我很快地算了一下分数，佩里现在领先一分。
So my very quick mathematical calculation for the points puts Perry at one point ahead.
哎呀。
Uh-oh.
天哪。
Oh, man.
好的。
Okay.
所以，艾米丽，你得加把劲了。
So, Emily, you gotta you gotta step it up.
好吧。
Alright.
我们要不要休息一下，重新调整一下？
Should we take a should we take a break and regroup?
休息一下，重新调整。
Take a break and regroup.
我需要一个机会，你知道的，深呼吸一下，然后想想……
I need I need a chance to, you know, take some deep breaths and figure...
多学点关于跑步的东西。
Learn some more things about running.
好的。
Alright.
好的。
Alright.
我们回来了，我也调整好了，我要赢。
We're back, and I'm regrouped, and I'm gonna win.
好的。
Alright.
走吧。
Let's go.
好。
Okay.
艾米丽，振动板是怎么回事？
Emily, what is the deal with vibrating plates?
你能看一下这段视频，然后描述一下里面发生了什么吗？
Can you please watch this clip and describe what is going on in it?
好的。
Okay.
这个人站在振动板上，然后她在改变自己。
This person is vibrating on a plate, and she's transforming herself.
有一个……
There's a...
这是标准的减肥前后对比，但加上了振动，我觉得是想展示减肥效果。
This is a standard before after, but with vibration, and I think there's an intention to demonstrate weight loss.
振动得特别厉害。
There's a lot of vibrating.
振动得很厉害。
Lot of vibrating.
好的。
Alright.
顺便说一下，我是个很厉害的人。
I'm I'm a smash, by the way.
就是先说出来。
Just getting it out there.
就是先说出来。
Just putting it out there.
开始吧。
Go.
好的。
Alright.
那么，让我来解释一件对上了年纪的人来说非常重要的事情，那就是平衡。
So let me explain something that's very important for people as they age, which is balance.
所以，当你想到，作为一个健康老去、不会散架的人，你希望自己是什么样子，你就需要做一些力量训练来保持肌肉量，促进骨骼健康，还应该做一些耐力运动和心肺锻炼，因为那很重要。
So when you think about what are the things you would like to be like a healthy aging person who doesn't crumble to dust, you need to do some strength training to keep your, you know, muscle mass and and to promote bone health, you should do some endurance sports and some cardio exercise because that's important.
而且，特别是对老年人来说，本体感觉会变差，所以人们需要练习平衡。
And also, especially for older people, your proprioception gets worse, and so people need to practice their balance.
其实有一些非常简单有效的方法，老年人可以练习平衡。
And there's actually some really good simple ways that older people can practice their balance.
比如，冲咖啡的时候，试着单脚站立。
For example, when you're making coffee, try just standing on one foot.
在台面旁边做，这样就不会摔倒。
Do it near a counter so you don't fall over.
所以，如果我们的听众里有年纪稍大的朋友，平衡……
So I really like if we have sort of older adults listening to this, balance...
即使那些其他方面都做得很好的人，有时也会忽略平衡，所以我想强调平衡很重要。
Even for people who are doing all the other things, balance is sometimes missed, and so I wanna emphasize it's important to balance.
振动板就是一种会振动的板子。
Vibration plates are a vibrating plate.
它会产生振动。
It's a vibration.
你站在上面。
You stand on it.
好的。
Okay.
人们对这东西有几个用途的想法。
And there there are a couple of things people think about these for.
最可能有用的是增强平衡。
The most, like, potentially useful is to increase balance.
所以，如果你想让一个平衡不好的人站在上面，同时做一些深蹲之类的动作，也许这样能更好地改善他们的平衡。
So if you think about asking someone who's struggling with balance to, like, stand on top of this while they're also doing some other kind of, like, squats or something, maybe that would improve their balance more.
有人在试验中测试过，但没效果。
People have tested that in trials, and it doesn't work.
实际上，用振动板的人可能更容易摔倒，大概是因为他们试图站在振动板上做各种动作。
In fact, the people with the vibrating plates may be slightly more likely to fall, presumably because they're trying to do stuff standing on top of a vibrating plate.
但无论如何，这对平衡没帮助，而平衡才是你唯一希望它能帮助的……
But at any rate, this is not helpful for balance, which is really the only thing you would wanna have it help...
能帮上忙的。
Helping for.
如果你想用它来减肥，如果你觉得它像那样……
If you are trying to use this for weight loss, if you think it's like that...
就像八十年代那种东西，绑在屁股上的带子，然后脂肪就会那样消失，但脂肪不是那样运作的，各位。
Like, one of those things from the nineteen eighties where you were like, it was that strap around your butt, and it was like, and, like, the fat was just gonna, like that's not how fat works, guys.
就像……
Like, that's...
抱歉，但减肥真的不是那样运作的。
I'm sorry, but, like, that's just not how, like, weight loss operates.
你不会把脂肪抖掉的。
You don't, like, shake off the fat.
那不是……
That's not...
生物学不是那样的。
That's just not how biology is.
所以如果你用振动板来减肥，比如在热量赤字的情况下，它会有用，但不会增加热量赤字。
And so if you if you are using your vibrating plate for weight loss, like, in the context of a calorie deficit, it will it will work, but it will not add to the calorie deficit.
只是热量赤字在起作用。
It's just the calorie deficit.
三十秒。
Thirty seconds.
我确实认识一些很喜欢振动板的人，我至少有一个朋友偶尔会带着她的振动板旅行，因为她喜欢早上站在上面，玩手机上的某种游戏，那是她放松的方式。
I do know people who really enjoy a vibrating plate, and I have at least one friend who occasionally travels with her vibrating plate because she likes to stand on it in the mornings and play, like, some kind of game on her phone, and that's how she relaxes.
我觉得那倒是……
And I think that is...
如果你是这样用振动板的，那挺好的。
If that's the way you're using your vibrating plate, that's great.
如果你想靠它甩掉脂肪，那就算了。
If you're hoping to shake off the fat, no thanks.
我不感兴趣。
I'm a pass.
这其实刚好在时间范围内。
That was actually perfectly within time.
所以我打算给你加一分。
So I'm gonna give you an extra point
因为我觉得我应该多得一些……
for I feel like I should get extra...
谢谢。
Thank you.
我很感激这些额外的分数。
I appreciate the extra points.
好吧，行吧。
I mean, okay.
这是个新角色，但没关系。
That's a new role, but that's fine.
那是……
That's...
我，我无所谓。
I'm I'm cool with it.
我们有个前同事，出差的时候都带着她的蹲厕凳。
We have a former colleague who used to travel with her squatty potty.
我是说，那个我……
I mean, that I...
我……
I'm...
我，我不评判那个。
I I don't judge that.
有旅行用的蹲厕凳吗？
Is there a travel squatty potty?
有人做了个可折叠的，能放进随身行李里？
Someone made, like, a foldable one that fits in your carry on?
如果有的话，专利申请中。
If so, patent pending.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得它可能是像汽车座椅那样，整个包起来带下来的。
I think it probably came down with, like, kind of, like, a car seat, like, all wrapped up.
好的。
Alright.
好。
Okay.
佩里，活体肾捐献这事儿你肯定门儿清，到底怎么回事？
Perry, what is the deal, this is right up your alley, with living kidney donation?
提问的人说，佩里，我很想听听你对活体肾捐献的看法。
The question asker asks, I'd love to hear your take on living kidney donation, donation, Perry.
我关注这事儿很久了，作为肾病专家，你讲讲你的想法吧，包括对捐献者健康的影响。
It is something I've been interested in for a long time, and it would be great to hear your thoughts on it as a nephrologist, including the health impacts on the donor.
这跟社交媒体关系不大，但我以前随便查过一点，结果看到好多请求肾捐献的赞助帖子。
This is only tangentially related to social media, but I did some basic research once and was served a lot of sponsored posts of people requesting kidney donations.
开始吧。
Go.
好的。
All right.
活体肾捐献者都是英雄。
Living kidney donors are heroes.
一点没错。
Straight up.
我们来看一些数据。
Let's put some numbers on it.
目前美国大约有十万人等着肾移植，而我们每年大约做两万七千例移植手术。
There are roughly a 100,000 people waiting for a kidney in The United States right now, and we do about twenty seven thousand transplants per year.
其中六千例来自活体捐献者。
Six thousand of those transplants are from living donors.
剩下的两万一千例左右，你知道，来自脑死亡捐献者或者心脏死亡后捐献者。
So the remainder twenty one thousand or so are from, you know, brain dead donors or donation after cardiac death donors.
这意味着，每年大约有五千人在移植等待名单上死亡，或者病情恶化到无法接受肾脏移植，大约每天十三人。
So what that means is that around five thousand people on the transplant waiting list die every year or get too sick to get a kidney, about thirteen people a day.
所以，活体捐献者越多，我们就能拯救更多的生命。
So So the more living donors we have, the more we can, like, save people's lives.
你有两个肾脏，其实只需要一个就够了。
You have two kidneys, and you really only need one.
不过，成为活体捐献者的过程相当严格。
The process of becoming a living donor, though, is quite intense.
基本上，当我们筛查一个人是否适合成为活体捐献者时，他们会接受各种检查，主要是为了确保他们将来永远不会出现肾脏问题，对吧？
And basically, when we're screening someone to become a living donor, they go through all sorts of testing basically to make sure that they're never going to have a kidney problem in the future, right?
也就是说，你不会因为肾脏疾病而死。
Like, you die of, it's not going to be kidney disease.
所以你不能有糖尿病。
So you can't have diabetes.
你也不能太胖。
You can't be too overweight.
你不能有，你知道的，尿里出现不明原因的蛋白或血。
You can't have, you know, unexplained protein or blood in the urine.
这些检查都是要做的。
There's all this testing that goes on.
摘除一个肾后，另一个肾会稍微长大一点，然后接管工作。
When a kidney's removed, the other kidney grows a bit and takes over.
总的来说，对健康没什么影响。
And broadly speaking, there's no health effects.
活体肾捐赠者自己将来需要透析或移植肾的比例，跟全国平均水平差不多，而这个水平本身就很低。
The rate of progression to need dialysis or a kidney transplant yourself among living kidney donors is about the same as the national average, which is very low.
但我要指出这一点，因为实际上你会觉得应该更好才对。
But I will point that out because actually you'd expect it to be better.
毕竟这些捐赠者都是经过筛选，从肾脏角度看非常健康的人。
Like, these are patients who are screened to be very healthy from a kidney standpoint.
所以，捐赠后他们的风险跟我们这些普通人一样，这其实说明可能还是有一点影响，就像你预料的那样。
So the fact that after donation, they have the same risk as the rest of us shmoes suggests that there is probably some modest hit, as you might expect.
但是活体捐肾后的后悔率非常低。
But the rates of regret after living kidney donation are vanishingly small.
大多数人都对此非常满意。
Most people are extremely happy about it.
我想说，如果你对此感兴趣，可以了解一下利他链条，就是说，如果你没有特定的捐赠对象，基本上人们会希望你把肾捐给一个匹配度好的人。
I would say if you're interested in this, look into altruistic chains where, you know, if you don't have someone you're giving to, they're they basically people, you know, you want to give to someone who you're a good match for.
所以有些人正在等待肾源，比如他们的妻子和他们不匹配。
So there are people waiting for a kidney donor and like their wife isn't a match for them.
但是妻子已经同意，如果她的丈夫从别人那里得到一颗肾，她就会把自己的肾捐给一个和她匹配的人。
But the wife has agreed that if their the husband gets a kidney from someone, she'll donate her kidney to someone she's a match for.
他们可以组成很长的链条，就像善意沿着山坡滚下来一样。
And they can make these long chains where, like, the goodness just rolls down the hill.
这真的是一个非常神奇的事情。
And it's really it's really a miraculous thing.
所以，祝你好运，加油。
So, you know, more more power to you.
我们现在不是生活在《星际迷航》的时代，没法用复制机造出一个肾脏来。
We do not live in the age of Star Trek where we can use a replicator to, like, create a kidney.
三十秒。
Thirty seconds.
我希望将来我们能达到那个水平。
I'm hopeful we'll get to that place in the future.
哦，最后我想说的是，如果你曾经捐过一个活体肾脏，如果你捐过肾，那么万一你自己将来需要肾脏，你会自动排在捐献名单的最前面。
Oh, and the last thing I should say is that if you have given a living kidney, if you've donated a kidney, you're automatically at the top of the donation list if you ever need a kidney yourself.
所以不用等那么久，在美国平均等待时间——
So instead of having to wait, the average weight in The U.
——
S.
——大约四到五年，具体看你在哪个地区。
Is about four and a half to five years depending on your region.
如果你之前是活体肾脏捐献者，不管什么原因自己需要肾脏，你马上就能得到。
If you were a prior living kidney donor and for whatever reason you need a kidney yourself, you get one right away.
太棒了。
Smash.
我
I
想补充一点，我的大学论文导师阿尔·罗斯，他是一位经济学家，为这个……做了很多设计。
want to add that my my college thesis adviser, Al Roth, who is an economist, did a lot of the design for the...
这个，像，连锁的、利他性的肾脏移植，太神奇了。
This, like, chained, altruistic kidney Amazing.
设计。
Designation.
太酷了。
So cool.
非常非常酷。
So very, very cool.
你有没有
Did you
你们有没有读过几年前《纽约时报杂志》上那篇关于“坏朋友”的文章？
guys ever read that bad art friend article from the New York Times Magazine a few years ago?
读过。
Yes.
讲的是一个女人对自己捐肾的事有点太自豪了，结果被波士顿的作家们集体抨击。
About the woman who was a little bit too proud of her kidney donation, and so she got completely taken down by Boston area writers
哦，不会吧。
Oh, no.
集体抨击。
In group.
值得一读。
Worth the read.
当然。
For sure.
好的。
Alright.
好的。
Alright.
大家低调点。
Be chill about it, guys.
不过谢谢你。
But thank you.
你是英雄。
You're a hero.
好的。
Okay.
艾米丽，关于洋车前子壳和β-葡聚糖补充剂对肠道健康和预防结肠癌有什么说法？
Emily, what's the deal with psyllium husk and beta glucan supplementation for gut health and colon cancer prevention?
那降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇呢？
How about lowering your LDL cholesterol?
粉末还是药丸形式？
Powder or pill form?
如果粉末形式更有效，那怎么才能真正融入日常生活呢？
If powder form is more effective, how to really incorporate it into daily life.
开始吧。
Go.
好。
Great.
所以这两种东西，车前子壳和β-葡聚糖，都是纤维的来源。
So both of these things, psyllium husk and beta glucan, are sources of fiber.
但它们不是同一种纤维的来源。
They're not the sources of the same kind of fiber.
实际上，车前子壳是我们获取所谓不溶性纤维的最佳来源。
So psyllium husk is actually our best source of what's called insoluble fiber.
你可以把它想象成那种纤维。
Think of that as the fiber.
我们在讲排便的那期节目里稍微提到过，就是那种能让东西快速排出的纤维。
We talked a little bit about this in the poop episode, but the fiber that, like, really, like, zooms things out.
而β-葡聚糖，通常存在于燕麦中，是一种可溶性纤维，它有点像把东西粘在一起，让它们移动得更慢，而且，怎么说呢，在其他方面更好一些。
And beta glucan, which is, like, commonly in in oats, is a kind of soluble fiber, and so it, like, kind of glues things together and makes it sort of move more slowly and, I don't know, better in some other way.
但我想说，这个问题问的是低密度脂蛋白胆固醇、肠道健康和结肠癌，而这些问题的答案是不同的。
But let me say sort of this question asked about LDL cholesterol, gut health, and colon cancer, and the answers to those things are different.
有证据表明，通过食物摄入车前子壳和β-葡聚糖，尤其是通过燕麦，可以改善你的排便情况。
So there is evidence that both psyllium husk and beta glucan through food, particularly through oats, can improve your pooping.
所以，如果你想改善肠道健康，获取这些物质，最好是通过食物而不是随便吃些药片、粉末或补充剂。这些物质可以从食物中获取，这也是最好的方式。
So if you were looking to improve your poop health, getting these things, and ideally through food rather than through random pills and powders and supplements, These are things you can get in food, and that is the best way to get them.
如果你排便有困难，它们会让你的排便更顺畅。
And they will make your poop better if you're struggling with it.
所以对排便来说，效果很棒。
So smashing for poop.
关于预防结肠癌的证据就弱多了。
The evidence on colon cancer prevention is much weaker.
有人提出过这种说法，但实际上，在试验中，通过这种方式调整纤维摄入，似乎并不能预防结肠癌。
People have suggested that this is true, but in fact, in trials, moving around people's fiber in this way does not seem to prevent colon cancer.
所以我觉得癌症方面的关联其实没那么明显。
And so I think the cancer link is just not there in the same way.
至于胆固醇方面，燕麦其实……
And on the cholesterol link, oats are actually...
是有相关性的。
Have been linked.
也就是说，吃燕麦粥和降低低密度脂蛋白胆固醇有关。
So consumption of oatmeal has been linked to lowering LDL cholesterol.
所以不是洋车前子壳那种不溶性纤维，而是可溶性纤维和降低胆固醇有关。
So not psyllium husk, which is insoluble fiber, but the soluble fiber has been linked to lowering cholesterol.
但同样，最好还是通过食物来摄取。
But, again, ideally getting through food.
所以我觉得这些……
So I think these are like...
这两样东西都有一定的作用，尤其是对排便来说。
There's something to both of these, especially when you're thinking about poop.
但和很多补充剂一样，最好还是通过食物来获取营养，而不是靠药片和粉末。
But like with many supplements, it's really best to get your stuff through your food rather than through pills and powders.
所以我非常支持通过食物来摄取这些。
So I'm a I'm a smash on getting these through food
为了你的排便。
for your poop.
好的。
Okay.
还剩四十四秒。
Forty four seconds left.
还有什么要补充的吗？
Anything to add?
佩里，你有什么要……
Perry, do you have anything to...
我要……
I'm gonna...
我，就是，就是，想安排一下我的时间。
I, like, like, seed my time.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我觉得这个……
I feel like this one...
我们……
We...
好吧，行。
Well, okay.
不过说句公道话，我们确实做过一期关于便便的节目。
Just to be fair to me, we did do an episode about poop.
那倒是真的。
That is true.
所以如果大家想了解更多关于便便的知识，应该回去听听我们那期节目，我……
And so people should go back and listen to our episode about poop if they wanna learn more about poop, which I...
你应该去听。
You should.
引用先例，引得好。
That's that's good citing precedent.
看在遵循先例的份上，这次我就放你一马。
I will let this pass for stare decisis.
好的。
Okay.
佩里，三文鱼是不是充满毒素？
Perry, is salmon full of toxins?
提问者问，我看到一些帖子引用的研究表明，三文鱼的毒素比任何其他动物蛋白都多。
The question asker asks, I see posts pointing to research that shows that salmon has more toxins than any other animal protein.
我们到底该不该吃三文鱼？
Should we be eating it at all?
还是应该少吃一点？
Or should we be eating it less often?
开始吧。
Go.
好的。
Okay.
我看了那个链接的Instagram帖子。
So I took a look at the linked Instagram post.
这个帖子提出了以下几点说法。
Here are the claims made in this post.
养殖三文鱼是世界上最有毒的食物。
Farmed salmon is the most toxic food in the world.
养殖三文鱼被麻醉，而且养殖条件导致95%的鱼失聪。
Farmed raised salmon are sedated and in conditions that make ninety five percent go deaf.
他们用石油基染料给鱼肉染色，让它看起来更橙或更红。
They use petroleum based dyes to dye the meat, so it's more orange or red.
它们所含的二噁英和致癌化学物质比牛肉、鸡肉、猪肉和鸡蛋高出大约十倍。
They have higher dioxins, cancer causing chemicals than beef, chicken, pork, eggs by about tenfold.
我超爱吃三文鱼的。
Now I'm a huge salmon fan.
如果你还记得我们之前聊过的种子油，我们当时提到过欧米伽-3脂肪酸，而三文鱼就是这种有益脂肪酸的绝佳来源。
If you go back to our talk about seed oils, we were talking about omega-three fatty acids, and salmon is a great source of the beneficial omega-three fatty acids.
它也是味道最好的，因为我不太喜欢沙丁鱼，而且我确实会尽量在能买到三文鱼的时候吃一些。
It's the best tasting one because I don't like sardines that much, and I do try to eat salmon when I can get some salmon.
那咱们就来逐条看看这些说法吧。
So let me go through all these claims.
第一，它们真的是世界上最毒的食物吗？
Number one, are they the most toxic food in the world?
当然不是。
Well, definitely not.
最毒的是毒鹅膏菌，吃一口它的菌盖就能要你的命。
The most toxic is the death cap mushroom, which will kill you dead from eating its cap.
立刻就没命。
Right away.
马上。
Right away.
马上。
Right away.
显然毒性更强。
Clearly more toxic.
直接没命。
Dead.
好。
Okay.
但如果说到人们真正会吃的食物，那毒性最强的当然是河豚，就是日本吃的那种河豚鱼。
But maybe in in terms of food people actually eat, well, then the most toxic would be fugu, of course, the puffer fish that is eaten in Japan.
只有吃错了才会。
Only if you do it wrong.
只有
Only if
你处理
you do
不当。
it wrong.
从人群层面来看，毒性最强的可能是黄曲霉毒素，这种霉菌来自储存不当的谷物和花生，会导致肝癌，每年在撒哈拉以南非洲地区大约杀死十万人。
At a population level, the most toxic is probably aflatoxin mold from poorly stored grain and peanuts that causes liver cancer, kills about one hundred thousand people in Sub Saharan Africa per year.
所以，不，不是三文鱼。
So, no, it ain't salmon.
三文鱼被麻醉了吗？
Are the salmon sedated?
养殖的三文鱼被麻醉了吗？
The farm salmon sedated?
没有。
No.
那根本不是真的。
That's just not true.
他们想让它们吃、游，长肌肉。
They want them to eat and swim and get muscle.
所以，不是的，它们没有。它们会聋吗？
So, nope, they're not Do they go deaf?
不会。
No.
但这里有一点道理，它们比野生三文鱼长得快，而长得快的三文鱼内耳会形成晶体，这可能会影响听力。
But there's a kernel of truth here in that they grow faster than wild salmon, and salmon who grow fast develop these crystals in their inner ear, which can impact hearing.
那挺可怜的。
That's sad.
我觉得，就像养殖动物一样，你知道，农场动物得不到最好的待遇，但这并不会让它们变得有毒。
And I guess, like farming something, you know, farm animals don't get the best treatment, but it doesn't, like, make it toxic.
我不知道。
I don't know.
这跟这个没什么关系。
It's just it's neither here nor there for this.
好的。
Okay.
他们是不是加了这种色素，让鱼肉变成粉红色的？
Do they add this coloring to make it to make the the fish pink?
嗯，这些帖子的意思是，这是在捕捞之后做的，比如他们喷一些红色食用染料。
Well, the implication of these posts are that it's done after harvesting, like they put spray some red food dye on.
其实不是这样的。
It's it's not.
这种化学物质叫虾青素，是加在三文鱼的饲料里的。
The the chemical is called astaxanthin, and it is added to the feed that the salmon get.
这和磷虾、虾里含有的化学物质是一样的，正是它们让……
It's the same chemical that comes from krill and shrimp that give...
从化学角度来说，是完全相同的东西。
It's like chemically the exact same thing.
不过这是合成的虾青素，是通过工艺制造出来的，而不是从虾和磷虾中提取的。
Now it is synthesized astaxanthin, so it's made in a process as opposed to being extracted from shrimp and krill.
但是它是
But it's
一样的东西，而且就三十秒。
the same thing, and it's just Thirty seconds.
混在它们的饲料里。
Mixed with their food.
最后，二噁英。
Lastly, dioxins.
处于食物链顶端的鱼类会积累环境毒素，比如汞、砷。
Fish that are apex predators concentrate environmental toxins like mercury, arsenic.
对。
Yes.
二噁英。
Dioxins.
野生三文鱼的二噁英含量是养殖三文鱼的三倍，因为养殖三文鱼通常吃植物性饲料。
Wild salmon have three times the dioxin as farmed salmon because farmed are tend to be raised on plant based diets.
所以，是的，它们含有二噁英。
So so, yes, they have dioxins.
但远低于世界卫生组织设定的风险水平。
They're well below the risk levels that are set by the World Health Organization.
剂量决定毒性。
The dose makes the poison.
不用担心三文鱼。
Don't worry about salmon.
来得正好。
Perfect timing.
我也觉得，如果要列举美国人饮食中的问题，比如，不是……
I also feel like if we had to outline problems with the diets of Americans, like, not con...
比如，吃太多三文鱼真的……
Like, consuming too much salmon is really...
这让我想起那些短视频，比如有个说法是，如果你在蓝莓奶昔里加一根香蕉，就会抵消掉黄烷醇。
Like, this feels to me like those reels that are, like, this thing is going around that's, if you add a banana to your blueberry smoothie, it cancels out the flavanols.
就是说，不好意思啊。
It's like, I'm sorry.
美国人的问题不是水果冰沙里香蕉吃太多，然后黄烷醇被别的东西抵消了。
Americans' problems are not that they're eating too many bananas in their fruit smoothies, and their flavanols are being canceled out by the other thing.
这根本不是问题所在。
Like, that's not the problem.
对吧？
Okay?
问题主要是薯片。
The problem is mostly the Doritos.
我就是……
I just...
我第一次点开那个的时候，简直要笑死了。
I I I was just dying when I first clicked on that.
那玩意儿号称是世界上最毒的食物。
It was, like, the most toxic food in the world.
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