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88岁的鲍勃·克劳瑟仍在学习，仍在绑飞蝇，仍在思考鱼为什么会吃饵。
At 88, Bob Clouser is still learning, still tying flies, and still thinking about what make fish eat.
今天，我们将回顾那些经典钓组、人物、鱼类，以及他一生的绑钩台和水边故事——从萨斯奎汉纳河和克劳瑟米诺的起源，到与莱夫蒂·克雷的友谊，这段友谊带鲍勃走遍了世界。
Today, we're going back through the patterns, the people, the fish, and the stories behind a lifetime at the vice and on the water from the Susquehanna River and the origins of the Clouser Minnow to a friendship with Lefty Kreh that took Bob around the world.
这里是《湿飞蝇摆动》播客，我会向你展示最适合飞钓旅行的地方，如何找到最佳资源和工具来为那次大旅行做准备，以及你能做些什么来回馈我们共同热爱的鱼类。
This is the Wet Fly Swing podcast where I show you the best places to travel to for fly fishing, how to find the best resources and tools to prepare for that big trip, and what you can do to give back to the fish species we all love.
伟大的鲍勃·克劳瑟今天来到我们节目，鲍勃将带我们了解克劳瑟深水米诺的发展过程，包括那些著名的眼睛最初是为了重量而不是外观。
The great Bob Clouser is here today, and Bob is gonna take us into the development of the Clouser Deep Minnow, including why those famous eyes were originally about weight rather than appearance.
鲍勃告诉我们莱夫蒂·克雷是如何给克劳瑟米诺命名的，以及他如何帮助这种飞蝇图案传播到世界各地。
Bob tells us how Lefty Kreh named the Clouser Minnow and how he helped carry this fly pattern around the world.
我们会听到很多关于鱼类、莱夫蒂、鲍勃以及整个团队的故事。
We're going to get a bunch of stories on species and Lefty and Bob and the whole crew.
鲍勃还谈到了克劳瑟悬浮者和其他一些他喜欢的优秀飞蝇，以及他是如何开发这些的。
Bob also talks about the Clouser Suspender and some other great flies he loves and and how he developed those.
另外，我们还会听到一个关于鲍勃父亲的幕后故事，他的友谊，以及他如何在飞钓环境中长大。
Plus we get a behind the scenes story on Bob's father, his friendships, and how he grew up around fly fishing.
今天的内容全在这里了。
It's all here today.
你可以和Bob打个招呼。
You can check-in with Bob.
你还可以在clousersflyshop.com上拿到一个签名版的假蝇。
You can actually get a signed fly as well at clousersflyshop.com.
我们开始吧。
Let's get into it.
有请Bob Clouser。
Here he is, Bob Clouser.
我想我们一开始先聊聊你的背景，比如你是怎么开始绑蝇的，还有Clouser Minnow是怎么来的，等等。
I think we're just going to start off with a little bit of your background, you know, kind of how, you you got into fly tying and the Clouser Minnow and all that.
然后我们就随便聊，最好的播客都是关于飞钓的轻松对话。
And then we'll just, you know, the best podcasts are always casual conversations about fly fishing.
所以这样就很简单了。
So it makes it pretty easy.
我之所以开始，是因为我父亲。
I got started because of my father.
每年圣诞节我们都会收到一些东西，比如棒球棒。
Every Christmas we would get some kind of a, either a baseball bat.
第二年我们会得到一个球，棒球、篮球之类的。
Next year we get a ball, get a baseball, basketball, you know, one year or something like that.
然后有一年，他给我买了一套绑蝇工具。
And then one year, he bought me a fly tying kit.
他买这套工具的原因是，他喜欢钓鳟鱼，还在萨斯奎汉纳河钓小口黑鲈。
The reason that he bought the fly tying kit was that he loved trout fish and fish on the Susquehanna for smallmouth bass.
他买了这套工具，看着我说，罗伯特，你要给我绑一些能用的苍蝇，就像那些铅头钩一样。
He bought this kit and looked at me and he says, Robert, you're going to make me flies that work out here just like the Jigs do.
于是我就用那套工具开始绑苍蝇，他用了之后效果很好。
So I started tying flies from that kit and he started being real successful with them.
后来过了很久，我遇到了一个叫莱夫蒂的人，他说，鲍比，你可以靠这个赚点钱。
And then a long, long way down the road, met a fellow called Lefty and Lefty says, Bobby, you know, you can make some money off of this.
我说，靠这个赚钱是什么意思？
I said, what do you mean make some money off of this?
他说，你可以卖你的假蝇，还可以带人去萨斯奎汉纳河钓鱼。
He said, you can sell your flies and you can take people fishing on the Susquehanna River.
他们会付你不少钱，就为了钓到鱼。
They will pay you good money to catch them.
那边有不错的鲈鱼。
Nice bassets out there.
我说，哦，我还真不知道，你知道吗？
I said, oh, I didn't know that, you know?
所以，反正，一切就是从那时候开始的。
So anyhow, it, it all started then.
那是在七十年代初。
And, that was back in the, early seventies.
我开始和这些人聚在一起，更多地和我爸一起钓鱼，因为那时候我还不太大。
I started getting together with these guys and, and fishing more with my dad because I was not too old at that time.
不知怎么的，Lefty和我联系上了，我们一拍即合，然后他带我去了世界各地。
Lefty got with me somehow and we connected with each other and, and he took me around the damn world.
你能想象吗？
I can, you imagine that?
他确实做到了。
He did.
所以你和Lefty一起旅行，在世界各地钓鱼。
So you, you traveled with Lefty and Fished around the world.
天哪。
Oh my God.
是的。
Yes.
我不知道他是喜欢我还是怎么的，但总之，我们成了超级好朋友。
I mean, I don't know if he liked me or what he did, but anyhow, we became super friends.
每隔几天就会接到他的电话。
Get a phone call every couple of days from him.
每次我接起电话，我都会说，我是克劳瑟。
When I would pick the phone up and I would answer, I say, this is Clouser.
他说，你不用再这么说了。
He said, you don't need to say that anymore.
他说，我知道你是谁。
He said, I know who this is.
总之，我们就是这样开始的。
Anyway, that's how we got started on this.
我们做的假蝇，已经算是世界闻名了。
We got, flies that were pretty well got their selves, worldwide known.
而第一个从我这里出去的假蝇，就是因为莱夫蒂，那就是克劳瑟米诺。
And the first fly that left my place was because of Lefty was the Clouser Minnow.
莱夫蒂带走了这个假蝇。
Lefty took this fly.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我记不清去了多少地方，做了多少事，但他确实钓到了。
I can't remember how many places and how many things, but but he caught.
有一天他回到家，打电话给我说，他用你的克劳泽米诺钓到了84种不同的鱼。
He come back home one day and call me and he said, I got 84 different species of fish on your Flouser Minnow.
哇。
Wow.
我就问，多少种？
And I said, how many?
他说84种。
He said 84.
我说，天哪。
I said, oh my God.
我说，你肯定跑了好多地方吧。
I said, you must have been all over the place.
他说，他们带我去哪儿都行。
He said, they take me anywhere.
好的。
Okay.
我说，那挺不错的。
I said, that's pretty good.
总之，我们就聊起了这个鱼种的话题。
Anyhow, we started the conversation on this species deal.
然后我对他说，我说，我知道你能在萨斯奎汉纳河钓到第85种鱼。
And I said to him, I said, I know you can catch number 85 here on the Susquehanna River.
我说，我们之前聊过钓鲤鱼的事。
I said, you and I have talked about this before about the carp fishing.
我们聊过用饵料钓鲤鱼，还有怎么和面团之类的。
And we talked about the bait fishing for carp and how you make your dough and stuff like that.
他喜欢雕刻鱼，但从来没用飞钓钓到过。
And he loved to carve fish, but he never caught one on a fly.
所以我告诉他，我说我这个夏天挺忙的。
So I told him, I said, you know, I'm pretty busy this summer.
那大概是七月份的事。
This was like a July thing.
然后我说，我儿子可以带你去钓鱼。
And I said, my son can take you fishing.
然后他说，哦，鲍比挺好的。
And, he said, oh, Bobby's good.
他说，我喜欢鲍比。
He said, I like Bobby.
我就跟鲍比一起去。
I'll go with Bobby.
所以他就跟我儿子鲍比去了，因为那天我有客户，为了把事情理清楚一点。
So he went with my son, Bobby, because I had clients that day and, to try to keep things a little bit straight here.
莱夫蒂来了。
Lefty came up.
我已经带客户在河上了。
I took my, had my clients on the river already.
莱夫蒂大概早上九点、十点左右到的。
Lefty came up somewhere around at nine, 10:00 in the morning stuff.
我儿子带他到了河边，他们上了我儿子的船，我看到他们一起顺流而下，你都能听到莱夫蒂的笑声。
And my son brought him down to the river and they got in my son's boat and I seen them coming down river together and you could actually hear Lefty's laugh.
他的笑声很特别，哪儿都能听见。
He had a special laugh and you could hear that any place.
他下来的时候，鲍比把船开到了我们船旁边。
He coming down, he, Bobby came up to our boat.
他开始跟我的客户聊天，我的客户特别高兴他能过来跟他们打招呼什么的。
He started talking to my clients and my clients were so elated that he came over and said hello to them and stuff like that.
其中一个人问，你今天打算干什么？
And the one guy said, what are you going to do today?
莱夫蒂说，嗯，他说，如果天气好的话，我们已经有计划了。
Lefty says, Well, he said, If it goes away, we have it planned.
我要用克劳瑟小鱼饵钓到我的第八十五种鱼。
I will catch my eighty fifth species on a Clouser Minnow.
所以他们离开了，沿着岸边往下走，离我们大概有两百码远。
So they left, went down the shoreline, and they were a couple 100 yards below us.
我看到水花四溅，鱼竿弯得厉害，还能听到他的笑声。
And I seen the water fly and I seen the rod bent over and I could hear his laugh.
他笑得很大声。
He was laughing out loud.
我说，哎呀。
I said, uh-oh.
我说，他现在已经用飞钓竿钓到了他的第八十五种鱼。
I said, he's got his eighty fifth species on the fly rod right now.
总之，那些人想赶紧跑下去看看。
And anyhow, the guys wanted to run down there quick.
我说，不，我不想去打扰他们。
I said, no, I'm not going to interfere with them.
我想让他们顺其自然，让这一天自然发展。
I want to let them have it the way it fall the way the day falls.
今天就是这样了。
And that's how it's going to work today.
然后我看到鲍比把网拿出来了。
So I seen Bobby get the net out.
他们把那条鱼捞上来，莱夫特笑得不行。
They netted this fish and Lefty's laugh.
两百码外都能听到他玩得特别开心。
You could hear him 200 yards away having a ball.
我还看到他坐在鲍比的船座上，转过身来，拿着网，网底挂着一条巨大的鲤鱼。
And I could see him turn on Bobby's boat seat, face us with a net and hold this humongous carp sticking out the bottom of the net.
他双手拢在嘴边，朝我们的船喊。
And he put both hands up at his mouth and looked it up up to our boat.
他说，第八十五种。
And he said, number 85.
我永远不会忘记那个七月的那一天，他钓到第八十五种鱼时发出的声音和笑声。
And I'll never forget that sound and that laugh from that day in July at that time when he got his eighty fifth species.
是的。
Yep.
第八十五种是用你的飞蝇钓到的，对吧？
Eighty fifth on your fly, right?
用的是克劳泽米诺。
On the Clouser Minnow.
用红狐尾巴做的克劳泽飞蝇。
On the Clouser on fly made from red fox tail.
那么，你当初做第一个的时候，带我们回到那时候。
So, did you, when you made the original one, take us back there.
这个飞蝇是什么时候，你是怎么想到这个主意的？
When did this fly, how did you come up with this idea?
嗯，一切开始于……
Well, all started...
我有一个好朋友。
I had a good friend.
他叫约翰·洛厄尔。
His name was John Lowell.
他跟我一起钓鱼，也一起旅行，我们去了很多不同的地方。
And he fished with me, traveled with me too, and went different places together.
我在家做这些假蝇的时候，约翰来了，他说，今天有什么给我试试的？
And I'm sitting at home putting these things together and John came up and John says, what do you got for me to try today?
我说，拿着，带上这几个去试试。
I said, here, take these couple of things along.
我们本来打算叫它们，嗯，是莱夫蒂给它们取的名字。
We're gonna call them, well Lefty named them.
我当时有
I had
哦，是他取的。
Oh, he did.
所以是莱夫蒂给它取名叫克劳泽米诺的？
So Lefty named him the Clouser Minnow?
克劳泽深水米诺。
Clouser Deep Minnow.
是他给这些起的名字。
He's a guy named these.
我刚才有点说岔了。
I I got ahead of myself there.
总之，我给了约翰几个。
Anyway, I gave a couple of them to John.
然后约翰说，哎，你这上面有眼睛。
And, John says, well, you got eyeballs on him.
我说，呃，那个……
I said, well, there...
那是配重。
It's weight.
不是我要加的眼睛。
It's not the eyes that I'm putting on.
是重量的问题。
It's weight.
我说，你知道我们的铅头钩有多好吗？我们用这种为旋转钓鱼设计的铅头钩，一条接一条地钓上鲈鱼。
I said, do you know how good our jigs are that we are catching bass after bass after bass on a jig that's made for spin fishing?
我说，这些算是改良过的。
I said, these are kind of doctored up.
它们可能会那样钓鱼……
They're gonna fish that probably...
如果你学会怎么操控它们，它们会以同样的方式钓鱼，效果也会一样好。
If you learn how to manipulate them, they'll fish the same way and be a very same effectiveness.
于是约翰拿了几只去河里试，回到店里说，鲍勃，你的飞蝇散架了。
So John takes a couple of them and goes out in the river, comes back in the shop and he said, Bob, your flies are coming apart.
我说，什么？
I said, they're what?
他说，我用这一只飞蝇钓了56条小口鲈鱼，它们还在咬钩。
He said, I got 56 smallmouth on this one fly and they're still hitting it.
我说，哎呀，约翰，我们在钩子上放的东西太多了。
I said, gee whiz, John, we're putting too much on the hook.
他听了只是笑了笑。
And he kind of just laughed a little bit, you know, at that.
总之，这个笑话从我的店里传遍了整个镇子，人们都跑到店里来看这些东西。
Anyhow, the laughter went from my shop down down to the whole town and people come up on the shop and looking at these things and stuff like that.
我说，莱夫蒂给这起了名字，我要保留这个名字，因为他说了一句话，当他……
And I said, Lefty named this and I'm gonna keep the name because he made a statement when he...
我问他。
I asked him.
我说，我们该叫它们什么？
I said, what what can we call these?
他说，它们是克劳瑟绑的。
He says, they're tied by Clouser.
他说，它们有重量，能沉到深处，而且看起来像小鱼。
He said, they got weighed on, they go deep, and they look like a minnow.
他说，叫克劳泽深水米诺怎么样？
He said, how about Clouser Deep Minnow?
我说，这名字我很满意。
I said, That satisfies me.
以后我们就这么叫它们了。
That's what we'll call them from now on.
所以它们就是这么得名的。
So that's how they got their names and stuff like that.
对，克劳泽深水米诺。
Yeah, Clouser Deep Minnow.
当时还有其他类似的假饵吗？
Was there at the time other flies?
哪些假饵的效果差不多？
What were the flies that were doing similar?
在你绑出这个之前，你用什么来钓鲈鱼和其他鱼种？
What were you using for bass before you tied this in other species?
有一种叫zonker的假饵，还有muddler minnow。
A fly called a zonker and a muddler minnow.
这两种是我们当时在河上钓鲈鱼最成功的假饵。
Those two were our most successful bass flies that we used on the river.
我们当然学会了怎么钓它们，有时候慢慢收线，有时候用非常不规律的收线方式。
We learned how to fish them, of course, sometimes slow, sometimes a real erratic retrieve.
收线方式在很多情况下是关键，因为它让假饵看起来像是受伤了。
The retrieve was the key factor in a lot of this stuff because it made the fly look like it was injured.
我觉得任何饥饿的小口鲈鱼都不会放过受伤的东西，尤其是受伤的饵鱼或者小龙虾，或者那些看起来有点不对劲的东西。
And I don't think any hungry smallmouth will let something go that's hurt, especially a hurt bait fish or a crayfish or something caked up.
再往回讲一点关于鲤鱼的更多历史。
Getting back a little bit in some more history on the carp, on the carp stuff.
我观察这些鲤鱼有一两年了。
I observed these carp for a year or two.
我和我儿子还有John Lowell会去钓它们。
Me and my son and John Lowell would fish for them.
我还有另一个朋友，斯科蒂·洛克纳，从州北部下来，我教了他这个，他非常喜欢。
And I had another friend, Scotty Lochner come down from the upper part of the state, broke him in on that and he loved it.
我们就在那里观察这些鲤鱼。
Where we would watch these carp.
你得在岸边找个进水口，然后我们会看到鲤鱼尾巴露出水面，搅起一片泥水。
You had to have some kind of an inlet on the shoreline and we would watch the carp with their tails out of the water and making a mud streak.
好的。
Okay.
那么现在我们又开始了。
So now here we go again.
开始了。
Here we go.
我们看到鱼在露尾觅食。
We got tailing fish.
嗯，它们这么做是有原因的。
Well, they're doing it for a reason.
它们饿了。
They're hungry.
所以我们一直在观察这些鱼，看它们。不管它们在哪里把尾巴露出来，鱼身上有泥痕，那里总有一条小口黑鲈躺在泥痕里。
So we've been observing these things and watch them And wherever they got their tails out and there's a mud streak coming off of the fish, there was always a smallmouth bass laying in the mud streak.
每当我们向那条鲤鱼抛飞蝇时，鲈鱼总是先抢到飞蝇。
Whenever we would cast a fly to that carp, the bass would take the fly first.
所以我们靠鲤鱼钓到了小口黑鲈，因为你能看到它们躺在鲤鱼旁边。
So we were catching smallmouth off a carp because you could see them laying on them.
为了让这更容易一点，我们试了各种不同的飞蝇图案。
Now to try to make this a little easier, we tried all different kind of fly patterns.
它们全都……
They all...
几乎我有的每一种飞蝇图案，包括模仿小口黑鲈的克劳瑟米诺，那种棕绿白相间的。
And just about every fly pattern that I have, including a Clouser Minnow smallmouth bass imitation, which is brown, green, and white.
连那个都钓到过鲤鱼。
Even that has caught the carp.
所以我们就在研究这个，发现这东西长什么样其实不重要。
So we're kind of studying this that, you know, it doesn't matter what this thing looks like.
重要的是它的动作。
It's what it acts like.
你最初绑的时候，用的是同样的材料，只是换了颜色，还是用了不同种类的材料？
When you first tied it, did you use the same materials, just change the color or were you using different types of material?
嗯，我们用的是红狐尾毛。
Well, we were using red fox tail hairs.
红狐。
Red fox.
那就是最初的红狐。
That was the original red fox.
那个叫狐红。
That that was called the foxy red.
我管它叫狐红。
I called that the foxy red.
好像东部那边也有人开始用这个了。
It has some people from this, I guess, the eastern part of the state also using it.
而且不管他在哪儿钓鱼、等鱼，都能用这个钓到鱼。
And wherever he was fishing and waiting at, he was catching fish on it too.
所以呢，这个红狐色的就开始火起来了。
So, anyway, this thing started to get pretty popular around the red fox one.
然后呢，我正好有一次去西部的旅行。
And by golly, I had I had a trip out west.
我带了一盒“狐红米诺”，里面各种尺寸都有。
I took the foxy red minnow box, different sizes in that thing.
那是我唯一带的克劳泽米诺。
It's the only Clouser Minnow I took along.
到了科罗拉多那边，我记得好像是那儿，然后钓了几个别的……
I got out there to the to Colorado, I guess I think it was and fished the a couple other...
我现在记性不行了，好多事都记不清了。
I can't remember everything anymore.
我脑子还挺好使的。
My brain is good.
对，我也是。
Yeah, me too.
都挺好的。
All good.
你在科罗拉多。
You're in Colorado.
我们聊了很多。
We've talked a lot.
我们大概能猜到你当时在哪儿钓鱼。
We could probably guess which one you were fishing.
总之，我们去了科罗拉多的马瑟韦尔旅馆。
Anyhow, we we went out to Colorado to the Motherwell Lodge.
那是个旅馆。
That was a lodge.
那里海拔大概八千英尺。
It was like 8,000 feet in the air.
哇。
Wow.
在山顶上，你根本没法一边走路一边说话一边喘气。
On a mountaintop, and you could not walk and talk and breathe at the same time.
你得放慢节奏。
You got you had to kinda slow down.
总之，在低一点的地方，有一条河。
Anyhow, at the lower section of that, they had this this river.
我走到河边，挂上那个狐狸红米诺，一条接一条地钓鳟鱼，三种鱼都用这一个假饵钓上来了。
I walked up to the river tied to the foxy red minnow and caught one trout after the other and all three species on this one fly.
我准备了六号、八号和十号的，长度从一英寸到三英寸不等。
And I had them tied in size sixes, eights, and tens different, different lengths from one inch up to three inches.
三英寸的那个特别管用。
The three incher was deadly.
所以我常说，Lefty以前总说，鲍勃，给他们点实在的。
Why I often say this, Lefty used to say, give them groceries, Bob.
他们喜欢大一点的东西。
They like bigger stuff.
这句话我一直记在心里。
That's always stuck with me.
总之，我们钓到了好多鳟鱼，然后有个人，就是那个向导，对我说，我在外面这么多年从没见过这种情况。
So anyhow, we're getting all these trout and a fellow said to me, the guide, I never seen anything like this in my life out here.
他说，这是我第一次遇到客户在船上用飞蝇钓，而且每种鳟鱼都能钓上来。
He said, is the first I've ever had a client on a boat fishing streamer flies that are catching every species of trout.
我当时觉得挺得意的。
I felt pretty good about that.
真的假的。
no kidding.
我确实挺得意的。
I was feeling good about that.
我们沿着这条小河往下走，我问他，那条支流里有鱼吗？
We're going down there in this little river and I said to him, said, is there any fish living in that tributary?
他说，你是说我们刚经过的那条吗？
He said, you mean the one we just went by?
我说，对。
I said, yeah.
他说，那你为什么不让我去那儿钓鱼呢？
He said, how come you didn't let me fish in there?
他说，嗯，从来没人能从那儿钓到任何东西。
He said, well, nobody could ever catch anything out of that.
他把船开回那个水流里，在河水从山边流出的地方下了锚。
He rode that boat back into that current, dropped an anchor where that river comes out of that, come out of this, of the side of the hill.
我把飞蝇甩进那条河里，每抛一次就钓上一条鳟鱼，一共钓了七条。
I threw that fly up in that river, caught seven trout on one on every cache.
是用那个小饵钓的小鱼吗？
On the little guy on the little minnow?
我能看到他的眼珠子瞪得老大，好像从来没发生过这种事。
I could see his eyeballs gone like this never happened before.
他说，嗯，我以前也没遇到过这种情况。
Said, well, it never happened to me before either.
太神奇了。
That's amazing.
你觉得为什么飞钓对那些鳟鱼这么有效，还是说普遍都有效？
Why do you think why do you think the Fly works so well for those trout or just in general?
是什么让这种飞钓这么厉害？
What makes this Fly?
我觉得
I think
主要是毛领和组合的问题。
it's more or less a collar combination.
如果你在水里看它湿了的样子，会让人想起小龙虾。
If you would look at that in the water when it got wet, it reminded you of a Crayfish.
如果你像那样动它，它看起来就像一只小龙虾。
If you moved it like one, reminded you of one.
而且它看起来非常像一只即将羽化的蜉蝣幼虫。
And it looked so much like a a nymph that was ready to hatch.
它身上有一些黑色和红棕色……
It had some black and red brown...
里面带点红棕色。
Reddish brown in it.
那些蜉蝣幼虫，比如棕色的蜉蝣幼虫之类的，它们羽化的时候，背上的壳会变深。
The nymphs, the brown drake nymphs and stuff like that, whenever they hatch they hatch, their casing gets dark on the back.
这个上面也有那种颜色。
This had some of that in that.
我也在想它为什么这么有效。
I'm trying to figure out why it's working too.
Lefty常说，鲍勃，如果它有效，就别改它。
Lefty used to say, Bob, if it works, don't change it.
那你还会想到一些经典的假蝇，你的假蝇在外面，有几个。
Then you also had, I mean, you think of iconic flies, your fly is out there, there's a few.
你提到了Muddler、Zonkerb，还有一些存在很久的假蝇，但还有Lefty的Deceiver。
You mentioned the Muddler, the Zonkerb, some other flies that have been around for a long time, but also Lefty's deceiver.
天哪。
Oh my god.
那是我们的救命稻草之一。
That was one of our lifesavers.
Lefty的Deceiver和Clouser Minnow有什么相似或不同之处？
How is the Lefty's deceiver similar or different from the Clouser Minnow?
它捕鱼吗？
Is it fish?
它捕的鱼多吗？
Does it catch as many fish?
嗯，它没有重量。
Well, it had no weight to it.
能看清的时候，特别是在萨斯奎哈纳河，那里有鲈鱼，它们会攻击饵鱼群，你能看到小鳉鱼在水面上跳跃，试图逃脱。
When we could see, especially on the Susquehanna River where the bass were, the bass were attacking bait schools and you could see the minnows skipping across the surface, trying to get away from it.
我会绑一个欺骗者假饵，因为它没有配重，然后把它抛到我看到这些鱼跳跃的地方，我们就这样交替收线。
I would tie a deceiver on because it had no weight and throw this deceiver where I would see these fish skipping, and we would just change retreats.
我们必须快速且不规则地收线。
We had to pull it pretty fast and erratic.
而且我们真的钓到了……
And we got them...
把它收好。那时候我们只要看到小口鲈和其他鱼在吃别的饵、追饵，就会从盒子里拿出欺骗者假饵来用。
Got that down, and that's the time we got the deceivers out of the box when we could see the smallmouth and stuff eating other bait, chasing bait.
这枚假饵，我可以说是我盒子里最好用的之一。
That fly was, I could say, one of my best in my box.
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Lefty 那款飞蝇钩，是不是比 Yer Minnow 更早出现？
Did Lefty's, was that fly out there before Yer Minnow?
他还专门为此发行了一枚邮票呢。
He even had a postage stamp with it.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
因为当你七十年代初见到Lefty的时候，他已经是个传奇人物了。
Because by the time you met Lefty in the early seventies, he was already a bigger than life guy.
在外面的人。
Person out there.
天哪。
Oh, god.
而且，我的家人也有同感，因为每次Lefty来，我妻子和孩子们都会去跟他握手、拥抱他。
And my, my family felt that too because every time Lefty would come up, my my wife and my kids would go to him and shake his hand and give him a hug.
每次他们都会这么做。
Every time he they would do this.
我知道这家伙是个传奇，真的是传奇。
And I knew the guy was bigger than life, actually bigger than life.
他确实如此。
And he did.
有一年我们在威斯康星州参加了一个小型的户外演出，大概是这么回事。
We were at a little outdoor show in Wisconsin, I think it was, one year.
有个特别 nice 的年轻人走过来跟我说："我和我哥们儿一直在关注你和莱蒂。"
And a very, very nice young man came up to me and he said, me and my buddy are watching you and Lefty.
我就问："你说关注我们是什么意思？"
And I said, what do you mean you're watching us?
"我们想知道你们是怎么做到登上巅峰并一直保持在顶端的。"
We would like to know how you guys got to the top and stayed.
那个年轻人还在，而且在他那片儿已经是顶尖的高手了。
And the young fella is still around and he's he's up on the top chain in his area.
对，是的。
Oh, yes.
对，没错。
Oh, yes.
他到现在还经常去钓鱼呢。
And he's he's still taking fishing.
大家肯定都在钓鱼。
People must be fishing.
他叫克里斯·威廉。
His name is Chris Willam.
我们知道。
We know.
克里斯。
Chris.
我们认识克里斯。
We know Chris.
克里斯·威廉是个绅士，一个非常棒、非常好的年轻人。
Chris Willam was a gentleman, a wonderful, nice young man.
我和他关系变得挺亲近的，我们聊了很多事情。
I got to be kind of pretty close with him, and we would chatted a while about things.
而且，我记得他朋友在那边开了一家飞钓用品店，我和他一起钓过小嘴鲈鱼，玩得非常开心。
And, I think I I can remember, his friend owned a fly shop up there and and I fished for smallies with him and we had a super time.
那是一次一天的、两天的活动，持续的时间不长，但确实让我多了两个朋友。
It was a a one day affair, two day affair and it didn't last too long, but it actually brought two more friends into my well.
是的，Chris Wilm，那太棒了。
Yeah, Chris Wilm, that's awesome.
所以你提到了麝香鱼，还有其他一些鱼种。
So you mentioned musky, some other species.
你用你的Minnow钓到过最疯狂的鱼是什么？
What is the craziest fish you've caught with your Minnow?
你钓到过几种不同的鱼吗？
Have you caught a few different ones?
我想我在这里，在切萨皮克湾和小约翰逊河附近，钓到过大约60种鱼。
I I think I was up to like 60 some species at this around here, on the Chesapeake Bay and, you know, little short johnson and stuff like that.
但我钓过从鲦鱼到鲤鱼，再到小嘴鲈鱼和鳟鱼，什么都有。
But I caught everything from chubs to carp to smallies to trout.
现在有四种不同的鱼类家族，都败在了我的Clouser仿生饵之下。
Now there's four different families of fish that were succumbed to my my Clouser imitation.
这些年它有没有演变过，还是……
Did it evolve over the years or...
就是那个……
I mean, there's that...
它挺基础的。
It's pretty basic.
这种假蝇……
The Fly...
这就是假蝇最神奇的地方，其实很多好东西都是这样。
That's the amazing thing about the Fly and really a lot of good stuff.
有时候基础的就是最好的。
The basics sometimes is the best.
它变过吗？
Did it change?
材料有换过吗？
Did materials change?
我觉得唯一的变化就是，你可以把它绑在五号钩或者十号钩上。
I think the only thing changed is that you can put that on a five ought hook or a size ten.
十号钩的话，飞虫大概有一英寸长。
Size ten would be about one inch long fly.
然后随着钩子号码增大，长度又会再增加半英寸。
And then as you increase hooks, it gets another half an inch longer.
还有五号的。
And a five o.
那用你的装备钓到的最大的鱼是什么？
So what is the biggest fish that's been caught with yours?
我猜应该是海鲢吧？
Probably I'm guessing tarpon have been caught?
我觉得可能是海鲢，不过钓条纹鲈的渔友可能会对此有些不同看法。
I would probably say tarpon, but the striper bass fishermen would probably argument argument that a little bit.
哦，对。
Oh, right.
那些大海鲈鱼。
With these big stripers.
这些大家伙能到60磅。
I mean, these big things are up to 60 pound.
但是大海鲈鱼……
But tarpon...
大海鲈鱼能超过100磅。
The tarpon over a 100 a 100 pound.
我确实用克劳泽飞钓到过一条这样的。
I actually caught one like that on the Clouser.
那条超过100磅。
That was over a 100 pounds.
那是在哪里钓的？
Where was that at?
在哥斯达黎加。
In Costa Rica.
这真是太搞笑了。
This was very comical.
这条鱼。
This fish.
我钩住了这条鱼，它正跳出水面。
I hooked this fish and he's jumping out of water.
我说，看那个左撇子，看他从水里跳出来。
And I said, look at that lefty look at him coming out of the water.
他说，闭嘴，小子。
And he says, this shut up, boy.
你要是不小心点，会跑掉那条鱼的。
You're gonna lose that fish if you don't be careful.
所以我就闭嘴了。
So I I kept my mouth shut.
总之，他们最后把鱼弄上来了。
Anyhow, they landed the fish.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
我有照片为证。
I have pictures of it.
我想你可以在我的网站的一些页面上看到那条鱼……
I think you can see on some of my website pages where the fish is...
那家伙在船边用鱼叉把鱼叉住，然后举起来。
The guy gaffed it right alongside the boat is holding it up on a gaff.
那条鱼比我还大。
The fish is bigger than me.
真的假的。
No kidding.
我跟你说，这是我多年来最兴奋的一次。
I'm telling you this was the biggest excitement that I've had in years.
我看着Lefty，我们正在和这条大石斑鱼搏斗。
And I'm looking at Lefty, and we're fighting this big tarp.
然后我说，Lefty，你给我的这个卷线器有点问题。
And and I said, Lefty, there's something wrong with this reel you give me.
他说，你什么意思？
And he went, what do you mean?
我说，它开始卡住了。
I said, it's starting to jam up.
我说，每当大海鲢跑的时候，它就会卡一下。
I said, whenever the tarpon takes off, the thing is is missing a beat.
我说，我手里能感觉到。
I said, I can feel it in my hand.
他说，那个卷线器没问题。
And he said, there's nothing wrong with that reel.
我用它钓了几百条鱼了。
I caught hundreds of fish on it.
我说，问题就在这儿。
I said, that's what's wrong with it.
它已经磨损了。
It's worn out.
我说它快散架了。
I said it's coming apart.
天哪。
God.
那个……
Any...
总之，我们钓到了那条鱼，拍到了需要的照片之类的。
Anyhow, we landed the fish, got the pictures that we needed and stuff like that.
然后他把渔轮带回家，给我打了电话。
And he took the reel back home, called me on the phone.
他说，鲍比，你说得对。
He said, Bobby, you were right.
他说让线轴转动的内部螺丝松了，而且现在里面已经有两颗松动的螺丝了。
He said the internal screws that allow the the, spoil to spin are coming loose, and he said there's actually two of them laying loose in the reel now.
所以那些小螺丝其实没多大……
So the the, little tiny screws weren't much...
他们组装手表的时候，那些小螺丝大概就掉在卷线器里面了。
They put a watch together with, I guess, were laying loose inside the reel.
每次一转，它们就会卡在里面，然后卡住……
And whenever they turned it, they would catch in there and jam...
卡死了。
Jamming up.
但那是只用了两三百次之后才发生的。
But that was that was only after a couple 100 Jack Kerbel.
又用了两三百次，还有我钓到的那条鱼之后。
A couple more 100 Tarfin and the one I caught.
那真是太厉害了。
That's amazing.
你现在还住在萨斯奎汉纳河附近吗？
Are you still located near the Susquehanna now?
不，我现在在佛罗里达。
No, I'm in Florida.
哦对，你在佛罗里达。
Oh yeah, you're in Florida.
没错。
That's right.
你是什么时候从萨斯奎哈纳搬到佛罗里达的？
When did you make the move down from the Susquehanna to Florida?
几年前我在一个伦泽蒂聚会上认识了一位女士。
I met this lady at a Renzetti get together a couple of years back.
然后到了2019年，我给她打了个电话，跟她说：杰基，我要买一张去佛罗里达的单程机票。
And then on, on, 2019, I called her and I said, Jackie, I'm buying a one way airplane ticket to Florida.
我要过去找你。
I'm coming down to see you.
那时候她还是单身。
At that time she was single.
她的丈夫已经去世了。
Her husband had passed away.
我不想掺和到任何家庭事务里去。
I didn't want to interfere with any kind of family affair.
所以我打电话告诉她，我说，杰基，我要下来，买一张单程票。
So I called her and told her, I said, Jackie, I'm coming down and buying a one way ticket.
如果我喜欢这里，我就留下来。
And if I like it, I'm going to stay.
如果我不喜欢，我就回家。
If I don't like it, I'm going back home.
结果，我留下来了。
Well, I stayed.
对，你留下来了。
Yeah, you stayed.
真是太棒了。
That's amazing.
那是在2019年。
And that was in 2019.
然后，我还和她结了婚。
And then, then I married her too.
哇。
Wow.
把一切都合法化了。
Made everything legal.
我把我的心和灵魂都给了她。
I give her my heart and soul.
而且我……
And I...
你可能不信，但直到今天我还是这样。
You don't believe this, but I still do today.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
我对这位女士的感情，和当初一模一样，不然我也不会在这里。
I have the same feelings for this lady today that I've had then, or I just wouldn't be here.
是的。
Yep.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
杰基，你也在场。
And Jackie, you're there.
你想不想直接加入，给我们……
Do you want to just jump on and give us...
我不知道你是否想说几句话。
I don't know if you want to say a couple words.
我有点好奇……
I'm kind of curious on...
这太棒了，因为我之前不知道这个故事。
This is amazing because I didn't know this story.
你们是怎么认识的……
Did you guys meet...
你们是在飞钓绑饵展会上认识的？
You met at a fly tying expo?
是Renzetti那个展会。
It was the Renzetti.
他们当时办了一个制竿和飞钓绑饵的展会。
They were having a rod building and fly tying fair.
我们就是在那里认识的，我当时带着我的书，想让他给我签个名。
And so we met there and I actually had my book and I wanted him to autograph it.
所以展会结束后我找到他，他给我签了书，一切都很好。
So I found him after the show and he signed the book and everything.
我们就聊起了生活，他告诉我他妻子最近去世了，而我丈夫也刚去世不久。
We just got to talking about life, you know, and he was telling me about, you know, how his wife had recently passed away, and which my husband had recently passed away too.
我们就聊了这些，然后他问我做什么工作。
And so we were just talking about things like that, and then he asked what I do for a living.
我告诉他我在IT行业工作，业余时间还做网站。
So I told him I worked in the IT field, and then I work on websites on the side.
哇，真的吗。
Oh wow.
然后他说——我不知道这是不是他为了要我的电话号码才这么说的——
So he said, and I don't know if this was just like his way of getting my phone number.
我真的需要有人帮我弄我的网站。
I really need help with my website.
没错。
That's right.
这就对了。
There you go.
所以我就接手了他的网站，我们一起经营这个生意。我现在就坐在这儿绑克劳泽米诺假蝇，还给它们装上防草装置。
So I took over the website and we're running the business and I'm actually sitting here tying Clouser Minnow's and putting weed guards on them.
哦，是吗？
Oh, are?
哇，真厉害。
Oh, wow.
所以你们现在还是这样，有人订了苍蝇，就直接从你们这儿发货。
So you guys still, so somebody orders flies, they're coming straight from you.
天哪，是的。
Oh, my god, yes.
对，没错。
Yeah, yep.
哦，那太好了。
Oh, that's great.
真的很酷。
That's really cool.
是啊，我们几乎每天都绑，当然我还有全职工作。
Yeah, we tie almost every single day, and then of course I work full time too.
对，我们就是喜欢这个。
Yeah, we just, we love it.
太酷了。
That's so cool.
如果现在有人在听，想买你绑的苍蝇，他们该怎么做？
What would somebody do if they're listening now and they wanted to get some of your flies tied, How would they do that?
直接去我们的网站，clousersflyshop.com。
Just go to our website, clousersflyshop.com.
我们网站上还有一个选项，可以要一张鲍勃签名的卡片和一只他亲手绑的苍蝇。
And we even have an option in there if they want an autographed card and a fly hand tied by Bob.
那他们是直接联系你们，还是有报名表，还是怎么操作？
So should they just contact you or is there a sign up form or how do they do that?
他们直接去www.clousersflyshop.com，然后进入Clouser Minnows专区，那里就有这个选项。
They would just go to www.clousersflyshop.com and then when they go into the Clouser Minnow's section, we have the option there.
另外，他的Swimming Lymph也是个很棒的图案，还有他的毛绒泡沫小龙虾。
Also his Swimming Lymph is a great pattern and his furry foam crayfish.
他其实正在重新推出他的吊带，Clouser吊带，特别适合这边的咸水环境，因为对黑鼓鱼和红鱼特别有效。
He's actually bringing back his suspenders, Clouser suspenders, especially for down here in the saltwater because they're really effective like on the black drum and the red bitch.
就是颜色图案的问题。
It's just the color patterns.
而且这种苍蝇很棒的，因为它是水下的苍蝇。
And they're a great fly because that's a subsurface fly.
完美。
Perfect.
对，看到了。
Yeah, see it.
这里有个，对，Clouser的，我在网站上，你可以看到那个苍蝇，然后可以直接下单，加入购物车就行了。
There's a, yeah, Clouser's, I'm on the website and you can see the fly and they can order right there, add to cart and go for it.
而且你们有很多不同的颜色，比如黄绿色、小嘴鲈鱼色、河鲱色，还有不同的尺寸，从六号一直到三号。
And you have a bunch of different colors, chartreuse, baby, smallmouth, river shiner, different sizes, six all the way down to 03:00.
是的。
Yes.
然后我还想提一件事，其实我昨天就在网站上做了这个。
And then I'll mention one other thing too, and I actually did this to the website yesterday.
在页面底部，我正在添加客户提交照片的相册，还有Bob刚才跟你说的那种大海鲢。
It's down on the bottom, I'm adding photo galleries of customer submitted photos, but also that tarpon that Bob was just telling you about.
我昨天刚把那张照片放到网站上。
I just put that picture on the website yesterday.
哦，在哪里？
Oh, where is that?
我们在哪里能看到？
Where can we see that?
你往下翻到底部，我记得写着“Bob钓鱼的照片”。
If you go down to the bottom, I think it says photos of Bob fishing.
好的，Bob钓鱼的照片。
Okay, photos of Bob fishing.
哦，经典照片。
Oh, classic photos.
就是这样，对。
There you go, yeah.
对，经典照片，我看到了。
Yeah, classic photos, I see.
好，对，找到了，确实有几张挺不错的老照片。
Okay, yeah, there we go, yeah, we got some old, some good old photos.
哦对，看到那条军鱼了。
Oh yeah, there's the tarpon, see.
对，他拿着个旧的，那是金色的绕线轮吗？
Yeah, he's got an old, what is that gold reel?
你还记得那个绕线轮是什么牌子吗？
Do you remember what that reel is?
那是芬瑙尔吗？
Is that a Finnaur?
我在看一张旧照片。
I'm looking at an old.
芬瑙尔。
Finnaur.
哦，那是芬瑙尔。
Oh, that was a Finnaur.
我爸爸也有一个那样的。
My dad had one of those.
那些卷线器真的很棒。
Those were great reels.
Lefty他们那些人都是很好的朋友。
Lefty and them guys were all such good friends.
那是在他们认识我之前。
This was before they knew me.
他免费拿到了卷线器。
He got free reels.
哦，确实是的。
Oh, he did.
当然。
Of course.
我记得看过一张Lefty和他那面卷线器墙的照片。
I remember seeing a photo of Lefty with his wall of reels.
他墙上挂着几百个卷线器呢。
Like, he had hundreds of reels on the wall.
你是不是也……
Are you kinda...
你的装备也到那个级别了吗？
Are you at the same level with all the gear?
你是不是也有那么多，一大堆一大堆的？
Do you have all that, you know, just tons and tons of everything?
天哪。
Oh my god.
我我东西可多了。
I I got so much stuff.
多到难以置信。
It's incredible.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
全都好用。
It all works.
如果你有东西不好用，那通常是你自己的问题。
If you've got something that doesn't work, it's usually your fault.
你不能抱怨设备。
You can't complain about the gear.
这已经是最好的了。
It's it's about as good as it gets.
对，不能抱怨。
No, you can't.
现在可不一样了。
Not today anymore.
从我们第一次拉船到现在，进步太大了。
I mean, it's things come a long way from a first time we pulled a boat.
你小时候第一次绑那个飞钓饵是什么时候？
What was the when you tied that first fly as a kid?
我猜当时用的是那种模型夹具。
I'm guessing it was like a model a vice.
那时候你用的是哪种夹具？
What was the vice you used then?
现在你用的是什么？
What do you use now?
一开始是汤普森的，后来换的下一个夹具，其实是从州西北部的一些朋友那儿得到的好建议。
A Thompson a and then the next vice, I actually got some good advice from some people up, up in the Northwest part of the state.
我当时说的是Regal牌的那个绑线器。
I was talking about the regal vice at that time.
他说，鲍勃，你只需要捏一下手柄，把钩子放进去，就准备好了。
And he said, Bob, all you gotta do is squeeze a handle, put the hook in and it's ready.
所以我买了好几个，我还留了一个棕色的。
So I bought a couple of them and I had a tan one.
接下来我要说点大多数人可能不知道的事儿。
Now I'm gonna say something that most people probably don't know.
克劳泽米诺鱼就是在瑞格尔台钳上诞生的。
The Clouser Minnow was born on a regal vice.
哦，真的假的。
Oh, no kidding.
是的。
Yes.
哦，那挺不错的。
Oh, that's pretty good.
后来呢，安迪·伦泽蒂做了一款叫克劳泽直臂的台钳，基本上跟瑞格尔的款式和锁定方式一样。
Then since that, Andy Renzetti has made a vice called the Clouser straight arm, and it's basically the same style and the same lockdown as what the Regal has.
所以，他是专门为我做的。
So, so he made that specially for me.
哦，天哪。
Oh, Roy.
所以外面买不到那些。
So you can't buy those out there.
你还是能买到的。
You can still buy them.
是的。
Yes.
其实，我可以拿到货然后卖出去。
In fact, I can get them and sell them.
不过话说回来，实际上这种飞蝇，还有那种小龙虾飞蝇，都是在Regal上诞生的，因为当时有人告诉我那是世界上最好的台钳。
But anyhow, the, the actual truth, the fly was born and even the Crayfish fly, they were all born on the Regal because I was told that that was the best vice in the world.
我就买了一个。
I bought one.
对，它们现在还是很受欢迎。
Yeah, they're still going strong.
我的Regal还在用呢。
I still have my Regal.
是啊，这就是好装备的好处，对吧？
Yeah, they're, that's the great thing about good gear, right?
感觉能用一辈子。
It lasts forever, it seems like.
对，它们是非常非常好的工具。
Yeah, they're a very, very fine tool.
对，就是这样。
Yeah, that's it.
那你开始绑飞蝇的时候，你爸爸给你买的第一只飞蝇，真是个很棒的故事。
So when you started tying your fly, that first fly when your dad got you, a great story.
你爸爸给你买了这套工具。
Your dad gets you this kit.
你还记得你绑的第一只飞蝇是什么吗？就是你用来钓鱼的那只。
Do you remember what your first fly was that you tied, that you fished?
当然记得。
Of course.
毛毛虫飞蝇。
A woolly worm.
哦，是毛虫，不是毛虫假饵，是毛虫。
Oh, woolly worm, not a woolly bugger, a woolly worm.
那个毛虫……
The the woolly worm...
我认识发明毛虫的人。
I know the guy that invented the woolly worm.
哦，我记得现代毛虫是由唐·马丁内斯开发的。
Oh, it says, I think the modern day woolly worm was developed by, Don Martinez.
后来，那位先生给我们展示了一种带马鲁布尾巴的毛虫钩，他女儿说这看起来像毛毛虫假饵。
And then, the, fellow showed us the, woolly worm with a marabou tail and his daughter said it looks like a woolly bugger.
这就是它名字的由来。
And that's how it got its name.
哦，是拉塞尔·布莱辛的女儿。
Oh, Russell Blessing's daughter.
对。
Yes.
拉塞尔·布莱辛的女儿是负责这件事的人。
Russell Blessing's daughter is a responsible person for.
哦，不错。
Oh, cool.
因为它们很相似。
Cause it's very similar.
这两种飞蝇几乎一模一样。
I mean, flies are almost identical.
只是一个尾巴长，一个尾巴短。
It's just one has a long tail and one doesn't.
嘿，我钓过所有种类的鱼。
Hey, I've caught every species of fish swimming.
任何地方，任何鱼都会吃毛钩。
Everything is anywhere will eat a woolly bugger.
如果你必须在毛钩和克劳泽米诺之间选一个。
If you had to take a woolly bugger versus a Clouser Minnow.
哦，我会选克劳瑟。
Oh, I would take the Clouser.
对，当然。
Yeah, of course.
你了解我的。
You know me.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
你选克劳瑟。
You take the Clouser.
没错。
That's right.
嗯，这很神奇，因为我们用过几种这种苍蝇，当然，我们聊了很多关于毛钩的，对吧？
Well, it's amazing because we've had a few of these flies on and of course the Woolie Bugger, you know, we've talked a lot about that, right?
如果你必须选一种苍蝇，但市面上有好几种，你知道的。
If you had to pick one fly, but there's a few of these out there, you know.
还有一个我们跟吉姆·提尼聊过的，就是提尼若虫，对吧？
Another one we've talked to, you know, Jim Teeny has the Teeny nymph, right?
这种飞蝇，非常简单。
This fly, it was very basic.
他经常用它钓鱼。
He kind of fished it with a lot.
这跟野鸡的尾羽有关系。
That has something to do with the tail feathers of a pheasant.
全都是野鸡尾羽做的。
It's it's all pheasant tail.
太简单了。
It's so basic.
其实就是用野鸡尾羽缠绕出来的。
It's just literally wrapping pheasant tail.
确实简单。
It's basic.
我在一些展会上和他待过一段时间。
And I spent some time with him at some of the shows.
哦，对。
Oh, right.
你知道吗？
You know?
是的。
Yep.
而且他是个很棒的钓鱼人。
And he's a good fisherman.
确实。
He is.
那现在你更多是绑苍蝇的，还是钓鱼的？
Well, now are you more a fly tyre or a fisherman?
嗯，以我现在的年纪，我绑苍蝇更多。
Well, at my age right now, I tie more flies.
那你巅峰时期呢？
What about in your prime?
那你年轻力壮的时候呢？
What about when you're in your prime?
你那时候更擅长哪个，或者更喜欢做哪个？
What were you more better at or what did you like doing more?
我现在就是巅峰时期，还在巅峰呢。
In my prime, still in my prime.
没错。
That's right.
我还是做同样的事情。
I still do the same thing.
我会在我家后院里钓鱼。
I'll fish out here in my backyard.
我会钓几条大嘴鲈鱼，而且时不时地，这附近还会出现一些新鱼种，它们是……
I'll catch a couple of largemouth bass and every now and then, there's some new fish around out here that are are,
狮子慈鲷。
Lion cichlids.
哦，慈鲷啊。
Oh, cichlids.
狮子慈鲷。
Lion cichlids.
嘿，我正看着外面呢，你看那条鳄鱼。
Hey, I'm looking out there when look at the alligator.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
你家门口有鳄鱼？
There's an alligator out your door?
天哪。
Oh my God.
它就在池塘对面那边。
He's over across the pond here.
至少得有二十英尺长。
About 20 foot long at least.
真的假的？
Are you serious?
你家后门外面居然有条二十英尺长的鳄鱼。
You've got a 20 foot alligator out the back door.
是啊，我们那儿确实有。
Well, we got them.
我见过两条那种家伙，这话我不太想说，但几年前我刚搬来这儿的时候，那儿有几只小鳄鱼，大概有三四英尺长。
We got two of them guys that I don't want to say this, but there was years ago when I first come down here, there was some baby alligators and they were like three or four feet long.
我们沿着岸边过来，我坐在长椅上，手里拿着兔粮，因为我在喂太阳鱼。
We come up along the shoreline and I'm sitting out on my bench and I got rabbit pellets in my hand because I'm feeding sunfish.
那些鳄鱼就会游过来吃这些兔粮。
These gators would come in and eat these rabbit pellets.
从那以后，已经过去很长时间了。
Now since then, that's been a long time ago.
这里就有两条能长到20英尺的。
There's two here that'll reach 20 foot.
还有三条，现在大概在10到15英尺之间。
And then there's three more that are right now between ten and fifteen feet long.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
它们就在我们岸边活动，吃大块的软木。
They work our shoreline and they eat big cork.
有一天我亲眼看到它们吃了一只白鹭。
I seen them eat a white heron one day.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
它从水里出来，到它身边，抓住那只大白鹭的翅膀，像狗甩东西一样甩来甩去。
Where he came out of the water till it was on his side, grabbed this big white heron by the wing, shook it like a dog shakes and stuff.
然后它把整只鹭吞了下去。
And he swallowed the heron whole.
天哪。
Oh my God.
这也太酷了。
That is so cool.
这就是我们在这儿时不时会看到的景象。
I mean, that's the kind of stuff that we watch here every now and then.
另外，我们喜欢的还有从丛林里出来的鹿。
And then the other thing that we enjoy is the deer coming out of the jungle.
哦，真的吗？
Oh, no kidding.
你们那儿是白尾鹿吗？
You have white tail or those white tail deer?
白尾鹿。
White tail.
它们个头不大，但这里也有大的。
And they're they're small, but there's some big ones here too.
杰基已经开始用骨气枪打猎它们了。
Jackie has started bone air hunting them.
哦，不错。
Oh, nice.
她带我去打猎，让我坐在那东西下面看着。
She takes me hunting, makes me sit underneath the thing and watch.
对。
Yep.
坐在架子上。
Sit on the stand.
哇。
Wow.
你担心过吗？
Are you ever worried?
后面有只20英尺长的鳄鱼，你怎么保证安全？
How do you stay safe with a 20 foot alligator out the back?
我觉得我挺粗心大意的，如果你要这么说的话，特别是对鳄鱼的时候。
I guess I'm kind of careless, if you want to call it that, when it comes to the gators.
你不会在外面水里游泳吧。
You're not swimming out in the water out there.
如果它趴在我长椅旁边的岸上，我就会打开后纱门，敞开衬衫，站在那里冲它大喊，它就被吓跑了。
If he's laying up on the bank at my bench, I'll open the back screen door, open up my shirt, hold it wide and stand there and holler at him and he scares any good away.
哦，它真的会跑。
Oh, he does.
哦，对。
Oh, right.
所以它们看到就会跑开。
So they'll go away if they see it.
它们知道。
They know.
如果你得冲上去赶它的话。
If you got to charge him.
但现在他们又在跟我们说，这附近有鳄鱼。
But now they're trying to tell us there's some crocodiles around.
鳄鱼长得跟短吻鳄不太一样，但挺像的，不过它们会追着你跑。
A crocodile kind of doesn't look like a gator, but he's similar to it, but they'll chase you.
对，鳄鱼才是真正凶的那种，对吧？
Yeah, the crocs are the real mean ones, aren't they?
是啊，我记得有一年，我猜是在哥斯达黎加或者热带某个地方，我跟一个团队，一个营地一起，他们做了个小通知，说如果想看鳄鱼过来，就去村子的码头，买一只冻鸡，大概……
Yeah, I was in, I guess it was Costa Rica or somewhere down in the Tropics one year and I was with a group, a camp, and they made this little announcement that if you want to see some crocodiles coming in, go down to the village at the dock and you buy a frozen chicken for...
把鸡给那个小孩。
Give it to the kid.
所以我就照做了，我买了一只鸡，然后给那些小孩，他们把绳子绑在鸡上，站在岸边，用绑着绳子的鸡拍打水面，这简直难以置信。
So I did, I brought a chicken and you give it to the kids and they put a rope around the chicken, stood on the bank and slapped the water with this chicken tied on the rope and this was unbelievable.
离那个码头足足有两英里远，海湾里有小岛，两英里外，那边的鳄鱼都能听到。
A good two miles away from that dock, there's islands out in the bay, Two miles away, the crocodiles over there could hear that.
天哪。
God.
你能看到它们朝着声音游过来。
You could see them swimming towards the noise.
它们会游过来，把绳子上的鸡吃掉，然后转身游回去。
They would come in and eat that chicken off of that rope and turn around and go back home.
我问那些孩子，你们不怕它们吗？
And I said to the kids, aren't you scared of them?
他们说，我们不让它们咬到我们。
He said, we don't let them bite us.
天哪，这真不一样。
Oh man, it's different.
佛罗里达，对吧？
Florida, right?
你住的地方跟你长大的地方有点不一样。
You're in an area that's, you know, it's a little bit different than, growing up where you grew up.
那边危险更多一些。
There's a few more dangers down there.
是的，确实是这样。
Yeah, it is.
那里有食鱼蝮蛇。
It's there's water moccasin snakes in there.
这里还有棉口蛇。
There's a cotton mouths here.
杰基会坐在猎鹿的掩体里。
Jackie sets in a deer blind.
她进去之前会先敲打整个掩体，因为里面可能藏着响尾蛇。
As she'll tap that whole blind before she gets in it because there could be a rattlesnake in there.
天哪。
Gosh.
所以你得小心行事。
So you gotta be careful what you do.
其实，我觉得你越小心，就越能在任何地方自如活动。
Actually, I think the more careful you are, the better you can get around anywhere.
而且我也不会做傻事。
And I also don't be foolish.
别冒险。
Don't take chances.
别以为他能走过去说，哦，好漂亮的鳄鱼，我养的那条也挺漂亮。
Don't think he can walk up and say, oh, nice alligator and petty one that I had.
你可不想那样做。
You don't want to do that.
天哪，那太疯狂了。
God, that's crazy.
嗯，那你现在住的地方挺不错的，你小时候提到过你爸爸以前的事。
Well, so you're in a cool place now when you grew up, you mentioned your dad back in the day.
那他是不是……
So was he a...
他是什么都做，还是你小时候他主要是玩飞钓？
Did he kind of do everything or was he mostly fly fishing when you were a kid?
我爸爸在奥姆斯特德空军基地当飞机机械师。
My dad was a airplane mechanic out at the Olmsted Air Force Base.
当然，他建了这栋大房子，然后开始做那种叫“小贩”的生意。
And of course, he built this big home he started to be what they called a huckster.
他买了一辆皮卡，一辆磅秤卡车。
He bought a pickup, a pound truck.
他把地下室用水泥块和储物箱修整了一下，然后开始卖杂货。
He fixed up the cellar with cement blocks and bins and he started selling groceries.
哦，那什么是小贩？
Oh, What now a huckster?
就是卖杂货的人，还是什么？
That's a person that sells groceries or what is a huckster?
对，他们就这么叫他。
Yeah, well, they called him a huckster.
他什么都卖，你想要什么他都有。
He sold anything you wanted.
好的。
Okay.
但他就在家里，你可以来拿芹菜和生菜，他在地窖里冷藏了很多。
But he's at the house, you could come and get your celery and lettuce and he has stockpiles of that in the cellar in the cold.
哦，真的吗？
Oh, no kidding.
所以他基本上是在家里开了个杂货店。
So he basically started a grocery store in the house.
是的。
Yes.
而且他还到处卖东西。
And he also pedaled.
我们叫他小贩，他开着卡车卖东西。
We called him a peddler with his truck.
哦，哦，所以他会开着卡车在镇上到处卖东西。
Oh, oh, so he'd have his truck and he'd peddle stuff around town with the truck.
是的。
Yes.
他开着卡车在镇上到处跑，就在车上卖东西。
He he went around town and sold out of the truck.
哎呀，真厉害。
Oh, man.
太酷了。
That's so cool.
我正看着呢。
I'm looking at it.
上面写着“小贩”。
It says a huckster.
定义是：沿街叫卖的小贩、叫卖者，或者那种用强硬、吵闹的方式推销低价小商品的推销员。
The definition is a peddler, hawker, aggressive salesperson who sells small items at low quality goods around using pushy, noisy tactics.
真有意思。
That's interesting.
我想你可以这么说。
I guess you could call it that.
我不太确定那是不是，那可能更普遍，我是说你爸可能不是那样的。
I'm not sure if that was, that's probably more of a general, mean your dad probably wasn't like that.
我很喜欢销售，因为我……
Well, you know, I love I love about the sales because I...
我们也做一些销售，我也做一些销售。
We do some sale, you know, I do some sales.
而且这是那种，在你成为销售员之前，你会想，天哪，我可不想当销售员。
And it's one of those things where when you think about it before you become a salesman, it seems like that job that's like, oh, God, I don't wanna be a salesman.
但销售的好处是，一旦你进入这个行业，而且你有一个好产品，比如你的苍蝇，你知道，当你知道产品很棒的时候，卖东西就很容易。
But the cool thing about sales is that once you get into it and you have a good product like your flies, know, it's easy to sell something when you know, the product's awesome.
所以我觉得这是销售中很重要的一部分。
So I feel like that's a big part of sales.
你对销售怎么看？
I mean, how do you feel about sales?
你们其实也是在卖自己的东西。
You guys are selling your stuff too, you know, in a way.
哦，对了，我爸一个人养活了五口之家。
Oh, hey, my dad raised a family of five.
全靠他的工作和他的副业。
All off of his job and his his extra job.
他付出了很多时间。
He put in time.
他是个很勤奋的人。
He was a worker.
他就像以前那种人。
He he was like a back in the days.
天哪。
Oh my god.
他根本停不下来。
He wouldn't stop.
他根本停不下来。
He he could not.
他其实还造过船。
You know, he actually built boats.
他造那种木头的。
He built these wooden.
那时候他们管那叫平底船。
They called them a bat tow at that time.
他去木材厂买木头，回家花上几个星期。
He, went over to the lumber yard, bought lumber, come home and took a couple of weeks.
造一艘船，然后卖四十美元。
He would build a boat and he sold that boat for $40.
真的吗？
Really?
那是用来干什么的？
What was that used for?
那船是什么样的？
What was the bat?
人们买它来做什么用？
What would people buy that and use it for?
在斯瓦杜尔溪和萨斯奎汉纳河上用的。
Used on the Swaddower Creek and the Susquehanna River.
哦，就是用来钓鱼和漂着玩的？
Oh, just to fish out of and just to float?
其实，还用船来抓甲鱼。
Actually, hunted, snapping turtles with it too.
哦，真的假的。
Oh, no kidding.
我吃过太多野味了。
I've eaten so much wild game.
医生都让我别吃了，因为酸性太大。
I had the doctors tell me to stop it because there's so much acid.
哇，真的啊。
Oh, wow.
我们靠吃鹿肉、麝鼠肉过日子，浣熊肉也吃，但就是不吃负鼠。
We lived off a deer, muskrats, raccoons would not eat opossum.
你吃那些鳄龟吗？
Did you eat the snapping turtles?
当然吃啊。
Oh, yes.
乌龟肉怎么样？
What are turtles?
是不是很好吃？
Are they just taste good?
乌龟肉很好吃吗？
Turtles are good eating?
我爸以前经常带回家，我还帮他一起抓呢。
My dad used to bring them home and I used to help him hunt for him.
他这个人有点小毛病。
And he's a man of a few warts.
他一直跟我说，咱们去溪里抓几只甲鱼当晚餐吧，我来帮他探路。
He kept telling me, let's go out out in the creek and get some snappers for dinner and I'll sound for him.
他只会说一个词，就是“探”。
That that was his his only only word to say, sound.
于是我就跟着他去了，他光着脚从船上下来，然后拿起船篙，放在身前，敲了敲水底。
So I went along with him and he gets out of the boat with his stock and feet and then picks up the boat pole and puts it right in front of him and taps the bottom.
他实际上是往泥里戳，你能听到碰到甲鱼壳的声音。
He actually taps down into the mud and you could hear when he hit a turtle shell.
哦，对。
Oh, right.
你能感觉到石头和甲鱼壳的区别。
You could feel the difference between a rock and a turtle shell.
然后他会拿起这根篙，说，我得先弄清楚头在哪儿。
And then he would take this pole and he'd say, I got to find out where the heads at.
你能想象把手伸下去，那甲鱼一口咬住你整只手吗？
Can you imagine reaching down there and the snapper's got your whole hand in his mouth?
哦，所以他是用手伸下去摸的？
Oh, so he'd reached down with his hand?
对。
Yes.
天哪。
Oh my God.
那甲鱼呢，然后甲鱼会怎么做？
And then the turtle, then what would the turtle do?
顺着杆子把手滑下去，感觉甲鱼的疙瘩往哪个方向走。
Slide the hand down the pole and feel which way the turtle's lumps went.
他抓着我的手，顺着杆子往下摸，我第一个感觉就是那些尖尖的东西往后退。
He took my hand and pulled it down the pole and the first thing I felt was them sharp things going back.
他说，没事的罗伯特，你在它头前面，不用担心。
And he said, you're alright Robert, you're ahead of his head, you don't have to worry.
所以他会把手伸下去，顺着龟壳摸到尾巴，然后抓住那条尾巴，把那只三四十磅重的大乌龟直接从泥里拎出来。
So he would reach down and follow that turtle shell back to the tail, put his hand around that tail and pick that big goddamn 30, 40 pound turtle right up out of the mud.
真的假的。
No kidding.
用尾巴……
With the tail...
抓着尾巴。
By the tail.
抓着尾巴。
By the tail.
哇。
Wow.
然后他有个桶，把乌龟扔进去，带回家，用花园铲把它们的头砍掉。
And then he had a bucket that he would throw them in, take them home and take the garden shovel and cut their heads off.
然后他会说，如果你以后非得这么做，记得把头埋了，因为两个星期后它还会咬你。
Then he would say, if you ever have to do this, you bury that head because it'll bite you two weeks later.
真的假的。
No kidding.
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
看起来像蛇。
Looks like a snake.
蛇也会这样。
A snake will do the same thing.
它会……
It'll...
它可能还会，对。
It could still Yeah.
嗯，那是原始大脑。
Well, it's a prehistoric brain.
我不知道那是怎么运作的，或者其他什么的。
I don't know how that works or whatever.
如果你把伯利兹列在闪游的愿望清单上，不妨看看蓝骨鱼旅馆，那里有在安伯格里斯礁长大的英语向导，他们对追逐 permit、大海鲢和北梭鱼充满热情，也非常了解。
If Belize is on your bucket list for a flash trip, take a look at Blue Bonefish Lodge, English speaking guides who grew up on Amberghese Quay, passionate and knowledgeable about chasing permit, tarpon and bonefish.
这家家族经营的旅馆提供当地伯利兹美食，还有全包套餐，无论是硬核钓鱼爱好者还是情侣或家庭，都能找到合适的安排。
This family run operation serves a local Belizean cuisine offering all inclusive packages that can accommodate everyone from the hardcore anglers to the couples or families.
从旅馆的码头出发，他们的向导可以带你去超过400平方英里的浅滩，紧邻伯利兹堡礁，海水清澈见底。
From the dock at the Lodge, their guides have access to over 400 square miles of flats adjacent to the Belize Barrier Reef and Gin Clear Ocean Water.
如果你想现在就了解这个项目，开始规划你的伯利兹之旅，现在就可以行动。
If you want to check out the program right now and start planning your Belize trip, can do that right now.
去 bluebonefishbelize.com 看看吧。
Check out bluebonefishbelize.com.
网址是 bluebonefishbelize.com。
That's bluebonefishbelize.com.
现在就去看吧。
Check them out right now.
我想花点时间介绍一下 No See Lodge，这家旅馆规模不大，专为飞钓爱好者设计。
I want to take a quick moment to tell you about No See Lodge, small by design and built for fly anglers.
市面上有很多飞钓小屋，但No See拥有大多数小屋没有的东西：五十年的历史。
There are a lot of fly fishing lodges out there, but No See has something most of them don't: fifty years of history.
自1975年以来，他们一直欢迎飞钓爱好者来到阿拉斯加的荒野，这种经验在他们做的每一件事上都体现得淋漓尽致。
They've been welcoming fly anglers into the Alaskan wilderness since 1975, And that kind of experience shows in everything they do.
钓鱼活动主要围绕野生彩虹鳟鱼和原始偏远的河流展开。
The fishing is centered around wild rainbow trout and pristine remote water.
那种钓鱼体验会让你想起当初为什么爱上这项运动。
The kind of fishing that reminds you why you fell in love with the sport in the first place.
这些行程很快就满员了。
These trips fill up fast.
如果你一直想去阿拉斯加，现在正是时候，你可以访问noseelodge.com。
If Alaska has been on your radar, now's the time you can visit noseelodge.com.
网址是noseelodge.com。
That's noseelodge noseelodge.com.
今天就行动起来吧。
Get started today.
你爸爸听起来真是了不起。在那个年代，为了养家糊口，你得什么都干。
Your dad sounds like, I mean, that's a great thing, Back in those days, you do whatever you had to do to put food on the table.
他会等到下几天雷阵雨。
He would wait until we got a couple of days thunderstorms.
然后他会说，好了，罗伯特，该去抓土拨鼠了。
Then he'd go, okay, Robert, it's time for groundhog.
我们会去一条叫卡纳沃加的小溪，沿着岸边走。
We would go down to a creek called the Kahnawoga, walk the edge bank.
当水涨起来，灌进麝鼠洞里，麝鼠就会跑出来。
And when the water came up and got into the muskrat holes, the muskrats would come out.
其他住在里面的动物也会跑出来。
Everything else that lived in there would come out.
我爸爸就是这样抓乌龟的。
And my dad my dad caught turtles like that.
我们在一些洞里发现了麝鼠，然后我们……
We had found muskrats in some of them holes, and then we...
他杀了那些东西，我们就吃了。
He killed that stuff, we ate it.
你们吃了。
You ate it.
你们什么都吃。
You ate everything.
听起来好像什么都吃。
It sounds like pretty much everything.
什么都吃。
Everything.
我跟你说一件事。
I mean, I'll tell you one thing.
麝鼠肉很好吃。
Musgrat's delicious.
是吗？
Is it?
哦，麝鼠肉挺好吃的。
Oh, muskrat's good.
天哪。
Oh my god.
那蛇呢？
What about snakes?
你吃过蛇吗？
Did you ever eat any snakes?
没有。
No.
那超出了我的接受范围。
That was beyond my Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
超出了他需要做的范围。
Beyond what he needed to do.
对，吃蛇确实有点极端。
Yeah, snakes are extreme.
我爸以前……
My dad used to...
他会杀蛇，我记得听过一些故事，他们会吃蛇。
Would kill snakes and I remember I heard some stories, they'd eat them.
我以前吃过响尾蛇。
I've eaten rattlesnake before.
味道嘛……
It's...
对，不太好吃。
Yeah, it's not the best.
哦，那是我从来没吃过的动物。
Oh, that was one animal I'd never eaten.
对，对，不值得吃。
Yeah, yeah, it's not worth it.
不值得费那个劲，我觉得。
It's not worth the effort, don't think.
那挺好的。
That's great.
哇。
Wow.
所以，听起来你爸爸对你影响很大。
So, dad was a big it sounds like your dad was a big influence on you.
他是不是给了你那些影响？
Did he get all that influence?
后来在生活中，你有没有想过这些？
Later in life, did you think about that?
是的。
Yes.
因为你后来开始玩飞钓，对吧？
Because you got into fly fishing, right?
你走遍了世界各地，到处跑。
You traveled the world and went around.
你觉得如果你爸爸回顾你的一生，看到你现在的样子，他会怎么想？
What do you think your dad would think if he looked back at your life and then saw how you it all turned out?
天哪。
Oh my God.
给他一点时间。
Just give him a second date.
我
I
我问这个是因为我爸爸今年刚去世，他对我影响很大。
ask that because, you know, my dad just passed away this year and he was really a big influence on me.
他是德舒特河上的向导，我开始想，我跟他很多朋友聊过。
You know, he was a guide on the Deschutes and, you know, I start to think I've talked to a lot of his friends.
我一直在采访他的一些朋友，听他们讲他的生活和往事。
I've been interviewing some of his friends, people, you know, to hear about his life and stuff.
是的，真的很神奇，对吧？
Yeah, it's amazing, right?
因为你不去想的话，根本不会意识到这一点。
Because you don't realize it until you think about it.
你会想，哇，那个人……
You're like, Wow, that person...
他们从来都不是完美的，对吧？
They're never perfect, right?
没有人是完美的。
Nobody's perfect.
我回想我父亲，觉得他真的是个好人，在很多方面影响了我。
I look back at my dad and I think, Wow, really was a good person and influenced me in a lot of ways.
就像我现在这样，坐在这里跟你聊飞行。
Like I'm doing this now, I'm sitting here talking to you about flight.
如果不是因为我父亲，我绝不会做这件事。
I would have never done this if it wasn't for my dad.
你明白我的意思吗？
Know what I mean?
对，可以学习。
Yeah, can learn.
我不知道他们有多大影响。
I don't know how much of an impact they have.
是的，确实如此。
Yeah, that's true.
对，就像我说的，这……
Yeah, like I said, I mean, it's...
还有今天你在节目里提到的那些人，比如Lefty Kreh，我从未见过他，我觉得这就是最神奇的地方。
You know, and some of the people you mentioned today, you know, on this episode, you know, Lefty Kreh, a person I never met, you know, I think that's what's amazing.
你很幸运，能和一位大人物共度多年。
You were fortunate enough to spend many years with one of the biggest people.
也许是最伟大的，对吧？
Maybe the biggest, right?
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