亚历克斯·吉尔伯特与凯蒂·韦伯：应对注意力缺陷多动障碍带来的压力

我在疫情前被裁员时的工作非常令人不堪重负。

My job before COVID when I was being laid off was very overwhelming.

我把它形容为一艘到处都是洞的船，我得不停地堵住这些洞。

And I described it as being in a boat that had a lot of holes in it that I had to plug.

我只有一支桨，也没有救生衣，而且我是唯一能把它划到岸边的人。

I had one oar and no life jacket, and I was the only person who could get it to shore.

我认为这就是很多人感到不堪重负的原因。

And I think that that's a lot of where people feel overwhelmed.

他们觉得自己快要淹死了。

They feel like they're drowning.

他们无法浮出水面呼吸，而且总觉得只有自己得去堵那些洞。

They can't cup up for air, and you think you're the only one who has to plug in the holes.

大家好，欢迎收听《女性与注意力缺陷多动障碍》播客。

Hello, and welcome to the Women and ADHD podcast.

我是你们的主持人韦伯。

I'm your host, Weber.

我45岁时被诊断出患有注意力缺陷多动障碍，这彻底颠覆了我的世界。

I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45, and it completely turned my world upside down.

我一直在用这种新的视角回顾我生命中的方方面面——学校、工作、人际关系，所有这一切都让我感到不堪重负。

I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming.

我很快发现，像我这样经历的女性并不在少数。现在，我采访其他女性，她们和我一样，成年后才意识到自己患有ADHD，并终于开始理解自己是谁，以及如何在职业和个人生活中充分发挥自己的优势。

I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally.

你好。

Hello there.

我们来到了第182期。

Here we are at episode 182.

这一周，我又要做一些不一样的安排了。

And this week, I'm going to be doing things a little bit differently again.

你们中有些人可能记得，我还有另一个播客，叫《ADHD Lounge》，我和另一位ADHD教练亚历克斯·吉尔伯特共同主持。

As some of you may or may not recall, I actually have another podcast called The ADHD Lounge, which I cohost with fellow ADHD coach Alex Gilbert.

这个节目的形式和这个不太一样。

The format's a little different from this one.

每个月，我们都会邀请一位关于注意力缺陷多动障碍和学习障碍相关主题的专家进行访谈。

Every month, we interview an expert on a topic related to ADHD and learning disabilities.

我们曾探讨过饮食失调问题。

We have tackled disordered eating.

我们还讨论过心态、人际关系、整理收纳、财务管理、药物治疗和治疗方案。

We have tackled mindset, relationships, decluttering, money management, medications, and treatment plans.

除了采访相关专家外，亚历克斯和我还会专门做一期节目，分享我们在自己生活以及所服务客户身上发现的有效方法。

And in addition to interviewing an expert on the topic, Alex and I then have an episode where we talk about what has worked in our life and in the lives of the clients that we've worked with.

我们在那个播客里玩得非常开心，所以我想在这里与大家分享一集我最喜欢的《ADHD Lounge》关于女性与ADHD的节目。

We've been having a lot of fun over there, and so I thought I would share with you one of my favorite episodes from the ADHD Lounge Podcast here on women and ADHD.

这是一期我们发布的关于应对ADHD带来的过度负荷的节目。

This was an episode we put out on managing ADHD overwhelm.

亚历克斯和我一起分析了导致ADHD过度负荷、决策疲劳和瘫痪的原因。

Together, Alex and I identify what causes ADHD overwhelm as well as decision fatigue and paralysis.

我们聊了一些

We talk about some of

我们分享了自己应对过度压力的经历，同时也介绍了我们在自己生活和辅导客户时使用的一些策略，包括帮助他们提升动力和增强对进展信心的工具与资源。

our own experiences with overwhelm, and we also share some of the strategies we use in our own lives and with our coaching clients, including tools and resources to help them feel more motivated and confident in their progress.

我非常喜欢这次对话和这一集，希望你也喜欢。

I really, really love this conversation and this episode, so I hope you do too.

所以请尽情享受，并记得收听ADHD Lounge播客。

So please enjoy and make sure to check out the ADHD Lounge Podcast.

我会在节目笔记中放上链接。

I'll put a link to that in the show notes.

别忘了下周回来，我会带来一些新的、非常令人兴奋的嘉宾。

And make sure to come back next week where I will be back with some new and very exciting guests.

好的。

Okay.

享受吧。

Enjoy.

欢迎收听ADHD Lounge播客。

Welcome to the ADHD Lounge Podcast.

无论你是患有注意力缺陷多动障碍或学习障碍的人，还是只是好奇想了解更多。

Whether you are someone with ADHD or a learning disability or just curious to learn more.

来我们的休息室一起放松吧。

Come hang out with us in our lounge.

我是亚历克斯。

I'm Alex.

我是一位母亲，纽约人，大都会队球迷，瑜伽爱好者，还有早午餐狂热者。

I'm a mom, a New Yorker, a Mets fan, a yogi, and a brunch enthusiast.

我八岁时被诊断出患有阅读障碍和注意力缺陷多动障碍。

I also happen to be diagnosed with dyslexia and ADHD at the age of eight.

我是Capable Consulting的创始人，这是一家为患有学习障碍或注意力缺陷多动障碍的成年人提供辅导和咨询服务的公司。

I'm the founder of Capable Consulting, a coaching and consulting business that supports adults with learning disabilities and or ADHD.

我是凯蒂，一名注意力缺陷多动障碍倡导者、教练、母亲、作家，womenandadhd的创始人，同时也是热门播客Women and ADHD的主持人。

And I'm Katy, an ADHD advocate, coach, mom, author, founder of womenandadhd, and I host the popular womenandadhd podcast.

我45岁时被诊断出患有注意力缺陷多动障碍，现在我的使命是帮助神经多样性成年人学会爱上自己的大脑。

I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45, and now I have made it my mission to help neurodivergent adults learn to love their brains.

在每一集中，我们会

In each episode, we'll

深入探索ADHD的世界，讨论独特的挑战，分享我们的个人故事，提供支持与资源，并邀请专家为我们指点迷津。

be diving deep into the world of ADHD, discussing unique challenges, sharing our personal stories, providing support and resources, and bringing in experts to help us along the way.

你也可以在theadhdlounge.com上找到我们，

You can also find the two

这是一个全方位的ADHD辅导社区，提供个性化指导、目标规划、技能提升、专家圆桌讨论等丰富内容，帮助你充分发挥你卓越大脑的潜力，尽情享受生活。

of us over at theadhdlounge.com, an all in one ADHD coaching community for personalized guidance, goal planning, skill building, expert roundtables, and so much more to help you make the most of your amazing brain and live life to the fullest.

所以，拿起你最喜欢的饮品，也许再来个羊角面包，找个座位坐下，或者开始散步、打扫，无论你选择怎样的方式收听，因为在ADHD Lounge，你可以完全做自己。

So grab your favorite drink, maybe a croissant, grab a seat, or start walking or cleaning or however you choose to listen because at the ADHD Lounge, you can come exactly as you are.

好的。

Alright.

欢迎来到ADHD Lounge播客的第二集。

Welcome to our second episode of the ADHD Lounge Podcast.

今天到场的是亚历克斯·吉尔伯特和我，凯蒂·韦伯。

It's Alex Gilbert and myself, Katy Weber, here today.

对于本周的主题，我们真的很想探讨ADHD带来的过度负荷感。

For this week's topic, we really wanted to get to the idea of ADHD overwhelm.

这是我们大多数人面临的状况，也是许多客户一开始就向我们倾诉的问题：我有太多事情想完成。

And it's something most of us face, something a lot of our clients come to us with right from the get go, which is I have so many things I wanna get done.

我不知道该从哪里开始。

I don't know where to start.

我感到不知所措，最后只能瘫在沙发上，陷入那种停滞的状态。

I'm overwhelmed and I end up paralyzed on the couch, you know, in that stuck place.

而且，说实话，这里面有很多值得深入探讨的地方。

And, you know, it's it's a there's a lot to unpack there.

所以我们决定先从一些关于过度负荷的基本概念入手，分享我们作为教练的一些技巧，比如我所说的‘清理垃圾’，帮助你迈出第一步。

So we figured we would just at least get started with some basics around overwhelm and some of our tips as coaches for getting past that sorting through the trash, as I call it, and getting to a place of just taking those first steps.

我也在想，Katy，正如你提到的，来找我们的人都会问：我该从哪里开始？

I'm also thinking, Katy, as you mentioned, that the people who come to us are like, where do I start?

而我常常会说：嗯，你其实已经开始了。

And I'm often like, well, you just did it.

你已经开始了。

You just started.

你只是通过承认自己感到不知所措，并意识到你需要帮助，就已经开始了。

You just started by acknowledging the fact that you are overwhelmed and you know you need support.

所以具体形式可能各不相同，我们能帮你度过这个阶段，但至少你已经迈出了第一步。

So what that looks like might vary and how we can get you through that, but at least you are starting.

如果你正在听这段话，那是因为你意识到自己感到不知所措，这种状态每周、每月、每天，无论频率如何，都在消耗着你。

And if you are listening to this, it's because you are aware you're overwhelmed and this kind of consumes you either weekly, monthly, daily, whatever it is.

所以，这已经是一个很好的起点了。

So that is a great place to start.

说得好。

Good point.

对。

Yes.

而且我觉得，我接触的很多客户都有一种感觉，觉得存在某种秘诀。

And I think also there's a sense from a lot of the clients I work with that there is some secret sauce.

他们总觉得会有什么秘密被揭示出来，就是那种我们都有的感觉——好像别人都懂怎么做，只有我不行。

There is some thing that's going to be revealed to them that where it's like, you know, everybody know, that feeling that we all have, which is like, everybody knows how to do this but me.

别人都知道怎么当大人，只有我不知道，别人都拿到了说明书。

Everybody knows how to adult but me, and everybody got the manual.

那么，这个秘密是什么？如果我掌握了它，就能解决问题了吗？

So what is this secret thing that if I implement, it's going to work for me?

这个问题的答案是：是，也不是。

The answer to that is yes and no.

确实有很多非常有用的策略，但并不存在一本能解决所有问题的ADHD终极指南，尤其是关于感到不堪重负这类问题。

It's really like there are a lot of strategies that are very helpful, but there's no secret ADHD handbook out there that's going to fix all of the issues, especially these issues of feeling overwhelmed.

在我看来，感到不堪重负本身就是ADHD生活的一部分。

Feeling overwhelmed is just part and parcel of life with ADHD as far as I'm concerned.

我想知道你对此有什么看法。

I'm curious what your thoughts are.

我也想说，那种冲动——想要快速找到解决办法，比如赶紧弄清楚这个问题。

I was also going to say that impulsiveness of I want the quick fix of like, let's figure this out.

现在我知道如何应对自己的 overwhelmed 感觉了。

Now I know how to manage my overwhelm.

一次性实施所有这些方法，对 ADHD 患者来说很常见，因为你听到或读到某个解决方案，它可能对别人有效，但对你无效，这时你可能会想：既然它对别人有用，为什么对我没用？是我哪里有问题吗？

Let's implement all of those things all at once is usually something that happens a lot to people with ADHD because you hear the solution, you might read the solution, it might work for other people and not work for you, but then all of a sudden, if you're sitting there and thinking it worked for them and it doesn't work for me, what's wrong with me?

答案是：没有问题。

And the answer is nothing.

我们接下来要讨论的这些策略，可能在你生命中的某个阶段对你有效，有时比其他时候更有效。

It's just strategies that we're going to talk about might work for you at some time, like some point in your life, they work better than others.

你可能会发现，某个策略在一段时间内对你很有效，但后来你需要调整，因为生活的其他方面发生了变化。

You might find that the strategy that you're working works for you for a while and then you have to adapt because other aspects of your life have changed.

这正是这个过程的一部分。

That's part of this process.

你的生活会变化，会成长。

Is your life changes, your life evolves.

我们在生活中不会一成不变。

We're not sedentary in how we go about our life.

因此，我们应对压力的方式并不会在所有情况下都一成不变。

So the ways in which we manage our overwhelm is not going to be the same no matter what the case is.

我认为这一点也很重要。

And I think that that's also important to mention.

好的。

Okay.

首先，让我们聊聊当你有注意力缺陷多动障碍时，导致压力过大的常见原因有哪些？

So first off, let's talk about what are some of the common causes of overwhelm when you have an ADHD brain?

我觉得很多来找我的人，当他们谈到感到压力过大时，是因为他们觉得自己必须同时把所有事情都做完。

I think a lot of people who come to me when they talk to me about being overwhelmed, it's because they think they have to do everything all at once.

他们有一大堆待办事项，每件事都感觉是最高优先级。

That they have a million things on their to do list and everything feels like a top priority.

但如果我们仔细分析一下，其实并不是这样。

When really if we started to analyze it, it's not.

有些事情明显比其他事情更应该优先处理。

Some things are a lot more obvious that they should do first than others.

我觉得这是其中一部分。

I think that's part of it.

你刚才想说什么？

What were you going to say?

因为我感觉我刚打断你了。

Because I feel like I just cut you off.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

我觉得你说得完全对。

I think that's exactly it.

在我看来，这正是一个优先级的问题，你一语中的。

And I think you hit on the head with just like it's a prioritization issue as far as I'm concerned.

对吧？

Right?

所有事情都感觉很紧急。

Everything feels urgent.

我总是把它比作连锁餐厅里那种叫号器，感觉所有事情都同时在桌上叮叮作响，抢着吸引我的注意。

I always liken it to those buzzers that you get at chain restaurants where I'm like, everything feels like that all at once on a table demanding my attention.

而这就是执行功能问题之一：优先级排序。

And, you know, that is one of the executive functioning issues is prioritization.

而且我认为，我们常常陷入一种困境：任何第一时间闯入脑海的事情，都会立刻变成新的重要事项。

And it's something that I think we struggle with in terms of just everything that comes immediately to the fore of our brain becomes the new important thing.

我们很难分辨出什么是真正重要的，而不是仅仅什么是紧急的。

That we really have a very difficult sense of realizing what is truly important as opposed to what is immediate.

这还在于

It's also the

最先出现在你面前的事情。

thing that comes in front of you first.

所以我认为，当你可能对自己要优先处理的事情有想法时，但比如说，办公室里有人走进来对你说：‘嘿，我们需要处理这个。’

So I think when you might have an idea as to what you're prioritizing, but let's say somebody at your office comes into your office and it was like, Hey, we need to work on this.

你会立刻放下手头的一切，因为那是你眼前直接看到的事情。

You drop everything immediately because that's the thing that you see directly in front of you.

所以这仍然是一个优先级的问题，但突然有人给你带来一件事，你就会觉得它一下子跑到了外面，因为你被打断了。

So it is still a prioritizing issue, but all of a sudden somebody brings something to you and all of a sudden it's like it went out the door because you've been interrupted.

你的注意力被中断了。

Your focus has been interrupted.

另一个方面是时间管理的问题。

The other aspect is that time management piece.

有时候你会感到不知所措，因为你想要做的任务——我不该说‘想要做’，而是你一直在回避的任务——通常是因为它让你感到沮丧，你不确定从哪里开始，因此它一直在消耗你，因为你不清楚从哪里入手，也不知道涉及哪些具体任务；或者相反，你看到为了完成这个大目标需要完成的所有小任务。

Sometimes you are overwhelmed because the task that you wanna do, or I shouldn't say want to do, the task you're avoiding generally is the thing that you don't want to do because it's frustrating for you, you don't necessarily know where the starting off point is, and therefore it's consuming you because you are not sure where to start, how to figure out what tasks are involved or it's the opposite where you see all of the little tasks that have to be done in order to accomplish this one big goal.

这让你觉得我没有足够的动力去开始。

And that to you feels like I don't have enough motivation to start.

对吧？

Right?

而我一直以为自己有一种处理障碍。

And that's where I always used to think I had some kind of processing disorder.

因为我记得小时候在学校时经常有这种感觉，就是有一个最终目标，但要达成这个大型项目，中间有太多步骤要完成。

Because I remember experiencing that a lot in school when I was younger, right, which was just that feeling of there's this end goal and there's so many steps that I have to get to to get to this end of this giant project.

而且我根本不知道从哪里开始。

And like, I don't even know where to start.

同时，我会一下子看到所有步骤，因此立刻感到不知所措。

Also, I see all the steps at once and so I'm instantly overwhelmed.

你仿佛同时看到了一切，又好像什么都没看到。

And it's like you see everything and nothing all at the time.

我真的觉得自己不知道该如何迈出第一步。

And, you know, really feeling like I don't know how to take that first step.

这正是我们非常、非常需要帮助的地方，就像你所说的，从一开始就需要帮助。

That is where we really, really need help from, like you said, right from the get go.

就在我们迈出第一步之前。

Just before we've even taken that first step.

但我觉得我们往往倾向于说，我必须先弄清楚我的第一步是什么，才能寻求帮助。

But I think we tend to like say, I have to figure out what my first step is before I get help.

我们必须在一开始就懂这些事情。

We have to show up already knowing things.

我在想，这种想法从哪儿来的？

I'm like, where does that come from?

我们身上那种取悦他人、过度补偿的倾向。

The people pleasing aspect of us, the overcompensation.

我的天，关于这种倾向的来源我可以说上一大堆，但确实如此。

I mean, I could go on and on about where that comes from, but it's true.

寻求帮助没什么可羞愧的。

And I think that there's no shame in asking for help.

你刚才说到我以前那个老板时，我想起来了，她会给我列一张清单，上面全是需要完成的事情。

I'm like thinking as you were talking about when I had this boss, she would give me a list of all the things that needed to be accomplished.

当我坐在房间里听她说话时，我意识到这些事全都要我一个人来做，我就沉默了——这显然不是我的性格。

And when I would sit in the room and she would talk to me, and I realized I was the sole person who had to do all of these things, I would go silent, which clearly that's not my personality.

如果我完全沉默了，房间里所有人都知道出问题了，通常是因为我太不知所措，以至于说不出话来。

If I went completely silent, everybody in the room knew something was wrong and it was usually because I was so overwhelmed that I had no words.

因为我正在处理所有这些步骤，我怎么会有足够的时间完成所有这些事？

Because I'm processing all of those steps and how am I gonna have enough time to do all of those things?

我该怎么激励自己坐下来专心做这些事？

How am I gonna motivate myself to sit down and focus on that?

谁来校对所有这些内容？

Who is going to proofread all of those things?

我的意思是，每一个步骤都可能让人感到不堪重负，即使你已经想明白了这一步怎么做。

I mean, it is every step can feel overwhelming, even if you can figure out that step.

但我们要讨论的并不是你必须独自完成这一切。

But what we're going to talk about is not necessarily that you have to do it by yourself.

我觉得让我一直很沮丧的是，我总觉得自己必须独自面对这个挑战，没人能帮得上我。

And I think that that was always the part that was frustrating for me was I always felt like this was my challenge alone and that no one would be able to help me.

我想你和我接下来要讨论的一些内容是：你不必孤军奋战，而是即使你一个人，也可以让事情变得轻松一点，以及如何从身边的人那里获得支持，让你在完成这些任务时不再感到那么孤单。

And some of what I think you and I are going to talk about is not that you're doing it alone, but how you can make it a little bit easier if you are on your own and ways in which you can get support from people around you to make you feel less alone in those tasks.

因为那些最让人有成就感的任务，就是那种你可以直接打勾、然后惊呼‘天啊，终于做完了！’的任务。

Because the tasks that feel the most satisfying are the ones that we could just check the box and be like, Oh my God, we're done.

这就像升级到下一阶段。

It's like graduated, next level.

它不会像回旋镖一样反弹回来。

Like it doesn't come back to me like a boomerang.

这已经彻底完成了。

Like this is complete.

所以我认为你和我在如何达到那种感觉、帮助你保持动力方面有很多不同的策略。

So I think you and I have a lot of different strategies on how we can get to that feeling and help you feel more motivated to keep going.

是的，这是个很好的观点。

Yeah, that's a good point.

支持的形式有这么多不同的层次。

There are so many different levels to what support looks like.

而且它并不总是必然需要另一个人，尽管那样会很好。

And it's not always necessarily another human, although that would be great.

但关键是，你要有一个工具箱，可以在你迈出第一步之前就问自己：此刻我需要什么。

But it's, you know, like having a toolbox where you can say, like, what do I need in this moment even before you even take that first step.

所以，我真的很想知道，你在帮助客户应对这种压倒性感受时，通常会重点采用哪些策略？

So yeah, I'd love to know, like, what strategies do you really work on with your clients when it comes to managing that overwhelm?

比如，有哪些方法看起来在某种程度上是普遍适用的？

Like, what are some tips that really seem to feel universal in some way?

我尤其在小组辅导的客户身上会关注的一点，是区分以兴趣为导向的大脑和以信息或重要性为导向的典型大脑，并意识到我们实际上非常有动力。

So one of the things I work on with my, especially with my group coaching clients, is the recognizing the difference between an interest based brain and a neurotypical sort of information or importance based brain and realizing that we are actually incredibly motivated.

当我们对某件事感兴趣时，我们实际上是非常高效且富有生产力的。

We're actually incredibly productive when we are interested in something.

这个过程中的关键一步，只是要认识到我们并非天生懒惰的人。

The step in this process is to just recognize that we are not actually inherently lazy human beings.

我这么做是有道理的，对吧？

My There is a method to this madness, right?

你能把这句话印在车贴上吗？

Can you put that on a bumper sticker?

我知道，对吧？

I know, right?

比如说，我实际上会和客户一起梳理，看看你们在哪些方面特别擅长？

It's like and so one of the things I actually do with my clients is I walk them through like, what are some of the things you're really good at?

因为很可能，很多神经多样性人士都会遇到一些问题。

Because chances are, you know, a lot of neurodivergence have issues.

你知道，有些人特别难以照顾好自己的饮食，而另一些人则完全没有这个问题。

You know, some of them you know, some of us are really, really difficult at, like, feeding ourselves, and others of us don't have an issue with that.

有些人很喜欢做饭。

Some of us love cooking.

对吧？

Right?

很多神经多样性人士在刷牙这类个人卫生习惯上都会遇到很大困难，对吧？

A lot of people who are neurodivergent have a really hard time with certain hygiene like teeth brushing, right?

那些没有即时回报或即时后果的事情。

Things that don't have an immediate reward or an immediate consequence.

还有一些神经多样性人士因为口腔感官敏感，反而能持续规律地完成这些事，然后我们就要找出背后的动力是什么。

Some other people who are neurodivergent have such sensory issues around their mouths are able to do things on a regular consistent basis and then identifying what the motivation is behind that.

所以，对于那些特别擅长刷牙、或者至少在这方面非常一致的人，通常是因为感官问题，或者牙医的提醒，又或者像我一样，因为严重的牙龈问题才最终促使我坚持下去。

So for somebody who is really, really good at brushing their teeth or at least really, really consistent with it, usually there's a sensory issue or their dentist or, you know, like me, extensive gum issues to finally get me to have sort of to follow through on that.

对吧？

Right?

所以，总有什么事情最终触发了你的转变。

So it's like something happens that finally flipped that switch for you.

通常是因为牙医对你大吼，或者账单贵得离谱，又或者出现了某种 debilitating 的问题。

Usually it involves your dentist yelling at you or really expensive bills or some kind of debilitating issues.

但关键是意识到，总有一个动机在背后驱动，弄清楚这个动机是什么，因为我认为这在应对那些本身不有趣的事情时至关重要——如果你本来就对某件事感兴趣，你早就做了。

But identifying that there is always a motivation and what that is, because I think that's really key when it comes to figuring out how to approach something if it's not inherently interesting and recognizing that if something was inherently interesting, you

会已经做了。

would have already

我们就是这样做的。

done That's how we do it.

我们就是这样处理事情的。

That's how we approach things.

就我而言，这始终是第一步。

That was always the first step as far as I'm concerned.

顺便说一下，关于牙刷这件事，对我来说情况变了。

By the way, the toothbrush thing, the game changed for me.

我讨厌我的电动牙刷，因为我讨厌把电动牙刷竖着放，然后它会变得黏糊糊的，很恶心。

I hated my electric toothbrush because I hated when you would stand an electric toothbrush and then it would get like slimy and gross.

然后我就再也不想碰它了。

Then I didn't want to touch it.

所以这其实是个感官问题。

So it was like a sensory issue.

于是我找到了一种可以倒置放置的牙刷，它通过超声波之类的方式清洁牙刷，这样牙刷就不会变得湿漉漉的底部。

So I found a toothbrush that you put upside down, and it like cleans it with like a sonic whatever so that it's clean, but it never gets like a soggy bottom.

这彻底改变了我对刷牙的看法。

And that completely changed my piece on brushing my teeth.

所以我完全理解了这个感官层面的问题。

So I totally connected with that sensory piece.

现在网上关于多动症的建议多得数不清，要分辨哪些可信真的很难。

There is no shortage of ADHD advice online right now, and it can be difficult to know who or what to trust.

这正是我欣赏Inflow的原因之一。

That's one of the reasons I appreciate Inflow.

Inflow是一款专为成年多动症患者设计的自助应用，尤其适合那些晚期确诊或仍在理解多动症在现实生活中具体表现的女性。

Inflow is a self help app designed specifically for adults with ADHD, especially women who are late diagnosed or still making sense of how ADHD actually shows up in real life.

你可以把它想象成多动症版的Duolingo。

Think of it like Duolingo for ADHD.

每天你都会收到一些简短的互动课程，大约五分钟就能完成。

Every day you get short, interactive lessons you can complete in about five minutes.

我非常欣赏这款应用所体现的同理心与细致用心。

I really appreciate the compassion and thoughtfulness that goes into this app.

它提供学习模块、领域专家的录音，以及一个活跃且支持性的社群。

They have learning modules, recordings from experts in the field, and an active, supportive community.

对我来说，真正让Inflow脱颖而出的是信任。

For me, what really sets Inflow apart is trust.

这些内容基于循证心理学，而不是那些所谓的技巧或TikTok潮流。

The content is grounded in evidence based psychology, not hacks or TikTok trends.

这款应用由一位专门研究ADHD且自身患有ADHD的心理学家创立。

It was founded by a psychologist who specializes in ADHD and has ADHD himself.

该应用已通过正式研究评估，并成为ADA和《态度》杂志等组织的官方合作伙伴。

The app has been evaluated through formal research and is an official partner of organizations like ADA and Attitude Magazine.

在多年筛选ADHD建议、技巧和方法之后，能找到一个帮助我理解自己大脑的App真让人欣慰，比如拖延、情绪过载、时间盲区和消极自我对话这些特质。

After years of sorting through ADHD advice and tips and tricks, it feels good to find an app that helps me understand my brain firsttraits like procrastination, emotional overwhelm, time blindness, and negative self talk.

我可以不带愧疚地做出明智的决定，选择真正适合我的策略。

I can make informed decisions about what strategies actually work for me without the shame.

如果你正在寻找一种体贴、易共鸣且基于研究的ADHD支持，可以从Inflow免费的ADHD特质测试开始，网址是womenandadhd.com/inflow，inflo。

If you're looking for ADHD support that's thoughtful, relatable, and research based, you can start with Inflow's free ADHD Traits Quiz at womenandadhd.com/inflow, inflo.

再次提醒，网址是womenandadhd.com/inflow。

Again, that's womenandadhd.com/inflow.

对我来说，我已经把其他家务活融入了我的刷牙习惯中。

For me, I have been great other chores into my tooth brushing routine.

所以现在我刷牙只要两分钟。

So now I it's like two minutes.

我有一款会每三十秒震动一次的牙刷，提醒我换一个刷牙区域，有时候我会注意，有时候不会。

I have one of those toothbrushes that buzzes every thirty seconds to tell you to shift to a different place in your mouth, which sometimes I pay attention to, sometimes I don't.

但我通常都会利用这两分钟。

But usually I use that two minutes.

我不会站着不动。

I don't stand still.

我会走来走去。

I walk around.

我会到处走，比如晚上我上楼时会打开窗户。

I go around, know, I'm upstairs, I open the windows at night.

我会把其他事情也安排在这段时间里，叠在一起做，这样就能把事情搞定。

Like I have other things that I then do that I've kind of have it stacked to get it done.

但不管怎样，重点是，当我们面对那些天生不想做的事时，必须非常主动，同时也要意识到，这其实就像在解一个谜题，对吧？

But anyway, so so the point is there's like, we have to be really proactive when it comes to something that we don't naturally want to do, but also recognize that it's really just sort of like solving a puzzle, right?

这并不是说你能摆脱那种‘我是个糟糕的人’的感觉。

It's not like you're getting out of that place where you're like, I'm a terrible human.

我很懒。

I'm lazy.

我感到无聊。

I'm bored.

你知道，我拖延是因为我太差劲了。

You know, I'm procrastinating because I've sucked.

我们面对不做事时通常会产生各种情绪反应，但真正要做的是摆脱这种状态，转而进入一个更理性的思维模式，意识到这里有些事情本该发生却没发生。

Like all of the sort of emotional reactions that we tend to have to not doing things is to really get out of that place and get much more logical place where you can say like something needs to happen here that isn't happening.

那么，我该如何识别正在发生什么呢？

So how do I identify what is happening?

对我和我的客户来说，通常都是一些激励因素。

And so for me and with my clients, usually it's some sort of motivator.

如果缺乏动力，比如有些特别难办的事情，像看医生的预约。

And then there's also if the motivation is lacking, like for instance, know, some one of the ones that's really difficult are like doctor's appointments.

我们很多人都为此困扰，因为那里根本没有紧迫感。

A lot of us struggle with that because it's like, there's no urgency there.

这真的很烦人。

It's really annoying.

你永远不知道要花多长时间。

You never know how long it's going to take.

你永远不知道拿起电话后，是五分钟的通话，还是三十分钟的等待。

You never know when you pick up up the phone if it's gonna be a five minute phone conversation or thirty minutes on hold.

所以围绕这件事的变量太多了，真的让人沮丧。

So it's like there's so many variables around that that are really frustrating.

所以，只是意识到这一点，好好坐下来想想：好吧，这就是我为什么不愿意做这件事的原因。

So just recognizing, like some of the like really sitting and thinking like, okay, this is why I'm reluctant to do this.

我认为对这一点的认识确实是存在的。

I think the recognition of that is definitely there.

我认为那里的动力也是其中一部分。

I think the motivation there is also part of it.

而且自我激励真的很难，尤其是当你不需要对任何人负责的时候。

And it's really hard to self motivate, especially when you don't have to feel accountable to anybody else.

你只是在对自己负责。

You're just holding yourself accountable to it.

所以你就想，算了，还是先放一放吧。

So that's why you're like, I'm just going to like let it pass.

所以我没去那个医生的预约。

So I didn't go to that doctor's visit.

毕竟只有我会因此受苦。

Like I'm really the only one who's going to suffer.

你总是把自己放在次要位置，但其实你得优先照顾好自己。

You kind of put yourself in the back seat and it's like, okay, but you need to prioritize yourself.

当你提到医生预约时，我会每年安排两次，把所有医生的预约都集中在这两天。

When you were mentioning doctor visit, I would like twice a year schedule two days where all of my doctor's appointments were like in those two days.

然后我会在这些日子结束后奖励自己，比如和朋友出去吃饭、做指甲，或者中间做点别的。

And I would reward myself with something at the end of those days, like a dinner out with my friends or getting my nails done or something in between.

或者在去的路上，如果不需要空腹抽血检查之类的事情，我会顺路去买我最爱的咖啡，那可不是普通的星巴克，而是一种特别的咖啡。

Or on the way there, if I didn't have to do like fasting blood work or something, I would go pick up like my favorite coffee and it wasn't just like Starbucks, it was something specialty.

这只是一个小小的举动。

It was just the tiniest piece.

但我想谈谈我做的事情，我觉得这和你说的非常契合，就是如何找到开始的地方。

But I want to go to part of what I do, I think this really plays in nicely to what you're saying, is how to even figure out where to start.

因为很多时候，我知道该从哪里开始，所以我才去做了。

Because a lot of that is like, I know where to start and therefore I'm doing it.

我知道什么能激励我。

I know what's motivating.

但我们要怎么退后一步，问问自己：我该从哪里开始呢？

But how do we kind of take a step back and say, where do I start?

很多时候，我和别人聊到时，都会建议他们做一次彻底的头脑风暴。

And a lot of the times I talk to people about just doing a full brain dump.

把脑子里所有的东西都写下来，这样你才能看清全貌，因为如果它们只是在你脑子里盘旋，你会被压垮，毕竟只有你自己知道这些事。

Write down everything that is in your mind so that you can visualize it because if it's just sitting up here, it's going to overwhelm you because you're the only one who knows it.

这正是你在工作场景中感到必须亲自去做，因为没人知道该怎么做的时候。

That's kind of when you're like in those workspace scenarios and you're like, I have to do it because no one else knows what to do.

我希望你把这一点写下来。

I want you to take that and put it down on paper.

我会让人们把所有事情都写下来，无论是工作相关的、家庭相关的还是个人的，都没关系。

And I have people write down all of the things, whether it's work related or home related or personal, it doesn't matter.

然后我们按重要性排序，但我实际上会从最不重要的事情开始，因为那是最容易放一边的，这样我们就能知道从哪里入手了。

And then we kind of rank in order of priorities, but I actually start with what's least important because that's the easiest thing we can just throw to the side and say, okay, now I know where to start.

但还要把任务拆解开来。

But also breaking that task down.

你提到要预约医生。

You mentioned making the doctor appointment.

这包括打电话给医生、开车、走路，或者根据你住的地方前往就诊地点、坐在那里等候，可能还需要安排后续复诊。

It's calling the doctor, it's driving potentially or walking or wherever you live, getting to the appointment, sitting there, maybe having to do a follow-up appointment and schedule that.

之后，如果预约后需要取药，还要去一趟药房。

And then it's also going to a pharmacy if you have to pick up a medication after that appointment.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

这些步骤具体是什么样子的，才能让我们有打勾的成就感？

It's what do those steps look like that we can get that feeling of check the box.

我完成了这一部分。

I did that part.

这一部分看起来很实在，只要我做了这一部分，就能感到成功。

This part feels tangible and I can be successful if I just did this part.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢用感恩节晚餐的例子，比如我们不会拿着一张写着‘感恩节晚餐’的纸就去杂货店。

I like to use the example of Thanksgiving dinner where I'm like, we don't show up to the grocery store with Thanksgiving dinner written on a piece of paper.

对吧？

Right?

我们必须先到达那里。

We have to get there.

所以我们得思考，得倒着推。

So we have to think, we have to work backwards.

我们得弄清楚有哪些菜。

We have to figure out what all the dishes are.

我们得弄清楚谁负责做什么、谁帮忙、谁带什么。

We have to figure out who's gonna be making what and who's helping and who's bringing.

然后我们得弄清楚每道菜需要哪些食材。

We have to then figure out what are the ingredients for each dish.

接着我们得弄清楚我们有哪些食材、缺哪些。

Then we have to figure out if we have those ingredients and what we have and what we don't have.

对吧？

Right?

所以这就像是……

And so it's like that's

这是从后往前开始的。

It's starting backwards.

这是从后往前开始。

It's starting backwards.

这就是那种低垂的果实，我知道这些部分。

It's that low hanging fruit of like, I know these parts.

很多时候，我认为我们很多人都觉得应该能自己完成这些。

Oftentimes, that's where I think a lot of us feel like we should be able to do that on our own.

我觉得那些提示，比如季度财务规划，或者我特别不擅长的一些事情，可以给我一份需要自问的问题清单，比如我的下一步该做什么。

I feel like those prompts, I think of quarterly financial planning or some of the things I'm really bad at, which is like, could give me a list of questions that I need to ask myself in terms of what are my next steps.

我仍然不会独自回答这些问题。

I'm still not gonna answer those questions alone.

对吧？

Right?

我确实需要有人和我一起做，或者需要有人提醒我。

Like, I literally will need either somebody to do it with me or I need to be prompted.

对于注意力缺陷多动障碍来说，就连自我问责都可能非常非常困难。

Like, there's something even just about holding ourselves accountable that can be really, really difficult with ADHD.

所以就是要意识到，与其花很长时间强迫自己做某件事，不如学会立刻认清：这件事我没法独自完成。

So it's like recognizing like how long am I going to spend trying to force myself to do something versus, you know, getting better at immediately recognizing this isn't something I'm going to do on own.

那现在怎么办？

So now what?

对吧？

Right?

而且，要摆脱那种‘我只是需要再努力一点’的想法。

And again, getting out of that like, oh, I just need to try harder.

我只需要一个完整的周末，来好好放松一下。

I just need a a full weekend of, you know, unstructured tire.

我们对自己说的这些话，本质上都是在评判自己为什么没做好，而不是跳出情绪，坦诚地说：是的，这件事我真的不会自己做。

All these things we tell ourselves are basically these judgment judgment calls about how we're terrible for not doing it as opposed to getting out of the emotional place and saying, yeah, this isn't something I'm gonna do.

所以，对吧？

So right?

但我也在想，这种责任感的问题，正是我们进行‘共处陪伴’时所期待的——你能感受到这个社群中其他人的支持，帮助你承担责任、完成任务。

But you also I'm thinking about that that accountability factor, and that's what we're really hoping when we do these body doubling sessions that you can actually feel like you have the support of other people in this community to hold you accountable to do something.

有些人正在参加身体共处会，同时把衣服收起来。

Some people are sitting on those body doubling sessions and putting their laundry away.

这真的很难。

That is really hard.

如果没有人站在你旁边说‘去把衣服收了’，我会感到不知所措。

And if someone is not in like standing over you to say like, put your laundry away, it's overwhelming me.

如果你看到别人做了，你就会想：哦，你知道吗？

If you see somebody else do it, you'll be like, Oh, you know what?

好吧，我现在也可以做了。

Okay, I can do it now.

如果有人在你身边做这件事，即使他们不在你的物理空间里。

Somebody's here to do it if someone's not in your physical space.

我丈夫知道，如果公寓很乱，我会告诉他我被房间的凌乱压得喘不过气。

My husband knows if the apartment is a mess, I will tell him I'm very overwhelmed with how messy the apartment is.

他会看着我说：‘我得先开始，你才会动起来。’

And he'll look at me and be like, so I need to start in order for you to start moving.

我就是这么想的。

I'm like, exactly.

支持不一定要面对面进行。

Like support doesn't have to be physically in person.

如果需要，有时候只需要有人先开始就行，但这也是我们希望你在身体双人协作活动中获得的。

If it is, sometimes it is as simple as having somebody start, but that's also what we're hoping you can get from the body doubling session too.

我们在这里通过虚拟方式互相支持来完成这件事。

We're here supporting each other virtually to do that.

是的。

Yeah.

我曾经有一个客户，她用非常独特的方式进行自我监督。

A client I had who was used accountability in really unique ways.

所以当她需要整理某个空间时，她会把它变成一件有趣的事，我认为这对很多人来说都很有帮助，因为我们常常需要思考：怎样才能让这件事更有趣、更有趣？

And so one of the things that she did when she needed to clean a space is she would do it she would make it fun, which I think is something that helps with interest for a lot of us, for us a lot of the time, which is how can I make this more interesting and more fun?

她会拍下整理前后的照片，这就像一种挑战，对吧？

So she would take before and after pictures and it was sort of like a challenge, right?

没多少人会用前后对比照片，但她会把之前的照片发出去。

Not a lot of people do that with before and after pictures, but she would send the before picture.

她会发短信给朋友说：如果一小时内我没回你，就提醒我一下。

She would text it to her friend and say, If I haven't texted you back in an hour, check-in on me.

我觉得这太聪明了，因为这在问责方面满足了太多条件。

And I thought that was so smart because it's like there's so many boxes checked off there in terms of accountability.

你给自己设定了截止时间，从而制造了一点紧迫感，这就像我提到的，当我们谈论某件事要引起我们兴趣所需的五个关键要素时，你也可以在网上找到这些内容，其实就是围绕任务的这些要素：它有没有紧迫感？

It's like you've got you've given yourself a deadline, so you've given yourself a little bit of urgency, which is also you know, like when I talk about the five key elements that something needs to have for us to be interested in it, And this is you you can find this on the internet too, but it's really sort of these things around a task where it's like, does it have urgency?

有没有时间限制？

Is there a timeframe?

如果没有时间限制，我们就会很难产生动力。

When it doesn't have a timeframe to it, it can be really, really difficult for us to get motivated.

所以，我能不能为自己创造一个时间框架？

So can I create a time frame basically?

能不能以某种方式让它变得紧迫？

Can make it urgent in some way?

我以前常这么做，记得小时候我还不知道自己有多动症，但当父母让我打扫房间时，我会假装自己是个成年人，我的卧室是个公寓。

And one of the things I used to do, I remember when I was a kid and I had no idea I had ADHD, but when my parents would make me clean my room, I would pretend that I was an adult and my bedroom was an apartment.

然后我会接到父母打来的电话，他们从机场打来，说：‘嗨，宝贝。’

And I would like get a phone call from my parents and they from the airport and they'd be like, hi, honey.

我们要来看你了，半小时后就到。

We're gonna come visit you and we're gonna be here in half an hour.

我会说：‘半小时？’

And I'd be like, half an hour?

哦，天哪。

Oh, no.

好吧。

Okay.

等不及想见到你们了。

Can't wait to see you.

然后我会挂掉我想象中的电话。

And then I would hang up my imaginary phone.

还有啊，

And Oh,

天啊。

god.

我超爱这种假装游戏。

I love that pretend play.

对吧？

Right?

我当时就想，哇。

And I was like, wow.

八岁的小孩能想出这种方法来制造紧迫感，真是太聪明了。

That was really brilliant of little eight year old me to come up with that just as a way of creating those ways, that sense of urgency.

我会玩我最喜欢的游戏。

Did something where I would play my favorite game.

我超爱俄罗斯方块。

I love Tetris.

它一直是我最喜欢的游戏。

It has always been like my favorite game.

我会玩一段时间的俄罗斯方块。

I would play Tetris for a certain amount of time.

一旦达到那个时间，我就会转去做别的事情。

And once I got to that time, then I would focus on something else.

但因为我一直坚持这样做，我已经进入了高度专注的状态，并且能感受到那种多巴胺的满足感，让我能站起来去做别的事。

But I was already in a hyper focused mode because I was so consistent with that and I felt that dopamine fix that I could get up and do something.

但我的一个客户制作了一个特别的播放列表，时长二十分钟。

But one of my clients made a special playlist that was like twenty minutes long.

当她告诉自己需要打扫时，就会播放这个二十分钟的播放列表。

And when she would tell herself she needed to clean, she would put on that twenty minute playlist.

当播放列表结束时，她也就完成了任务。

And when that playlist was over, she was done.

所以她清楚每个播放列表的时长，并且有不同长度的播放列表，但关键在于她可以边跳舞边做事情。

So she knew how long the playlist was for and she had like certain playlists that were certain amount of time, but the whole point was she could like dance around.