Navigating AI Governance: Insights from Joyce Li

欢迎收听《女性与人工智能》播客。

Welcome to Women in AI, the podcast.

每期节目，我们都致力于打造一个包容的环境，欢迎女性科技从业者进入人工智能领域。

Each episode, we strive to create an inclusive space that welcomes women in tech to the field of AI.

今天的主持人是我，Re'oud 和 Jenny。

Your hosts today are me, Re'oud, Jenny.

你好。

Hello.

还有 Lana。

And Lana.

你好。

Hello.

接下来我们会和 Joyce Li 一起探讨人工智能与治理，以及董事会如何应对人工智能的挑战。

And we'll be discussing AI and Governance and insight on how the boardroom is addressing AI with Joyce Li.

现在我把话筒交给 Jenny，来开启今天的介绍。

I'll hand it off to Jenny to kick off the introduction.

今天这期节目我特别期待。

I am so excited for episode today.

我们请到了 Joyce Li，她在全球投资、金融、董事会治理以及人工智能创业和咨询方面都有深厚背景。

We've got Joyce Li, who brings a strong combination of global investing, finance, board governance, and AI entrepreneurship and advisory.

她不仅参与人工智能领域的投资，还提供咨询，推动合作，涉及商业策略和治理等多个方面。

Joyce builds, advises, and collaborates on AI investments, partnerships, business strategies, and governance.

她经常在行业会议和商学院的课堂上分享这些话题。

She frequently speaks on these topics at industry events, and in business school classrooms.

她的董事会领导经验超越了普通投资者的视角，融合了审计、金融、技术和风险管理的全面视角。

Her board leadership expertise transcends typical investor perspectives, integrating audit, finance, technology, and risk oversight.

她为打造高效、面向未来的董事会提供了全新的思路。

She offers a modern perspective for building effective, future ready boards.

Joyce，非常高兴你今天能来。

We are so glad to have you here today, Joyce.

能来到这里我真的很开心。

I'm so happy to be here.

谢谢邀请我来。

Thank you for having me.

谢谢你，Joyce。

Thank you, Joyce.

和你聊天真开心。

It's so lovely to talk to you.

我们特别想知道，董事会成员需要了解哪些关于AI的知识？

We would love to know, what do board members need to know about AI?

很多董事会成员都听这个播客，非常想听听你的看法。

We have a lot of board members who listen to the podcast and would love your opinion on that.

当然。

Absolutely.

你需要一个以人为核心、全面的治理框架。

You really need a human centered, comprehensive framework for governance.

现在再也不能指望在某个领域请个专家就万事大吉了。

There is no one way to govern in one area, hire an expert, and then I'm done type of governance anymore.

第二点，别等着。

And the second thing is do not wait.

有些董事会成员会说，我问过我所在公司的管理层，他们告诉我公司还没真正采用AI，所以我们没问题。

Some board members will say, we ask the management of the company I am sitting on the board on, and the management told me that we haven't really adopted AI yet.

其实不然。

So we're good.

两周前，微软和领英发布了一份报告，指出75%的知识型员工已经在工作中使用AI了。

Well, two weeks ago, there was a article by a report by Microsoft and LinkedIn, basically saying 75% of knowledge workers already use AI for their work.

不管你知道不知道，知识型员工早就用上了。

So regardless whether you know it or not, knowledge workers are using it.

董事会如果忽视这个风险，不建立相应的政策和框架，风险会非常大。

It's a huge risk for board members not to acknowledge that risk and put in the right policies and framework.

你刚才的梳理非常清晰，观点也很有见地，我觉得对很多创始人和董事会成员都会很有启发。

That was a great outline and a really good point of view that you have that I think would be really useful for a lot of founders and board members to view it that way.

另外，我想对一些听众提一下，你写过《AI治理实战指南》。

I would also, for some of our listeners, like to tell them that you wrote AI Governance Playbook.

我们特别想知道，是什么促使你写下这本书？能跟我们分享一下你的创作灵感吗？

We would love to know what led you to write the book, and just tell us a little bit more about your inspiration there.

当然可以。

Sure.

首先，我要说明一下，我只是参与撰写这份治理手册的团队中的一员。

First of all, let me just say, I'm only part of that group who wrote this Governance Playbook.

我们很早就意识到，无论是商业战略还是治理建议，关于AI的讨论中，女性的声音，或者说更多元的视角，都严重缺失。

One of the things that we realized early on is the lack of woman's voice or more broadly a diverse set of perspectives when we read about business strategies or governance suggestions, articles on AI.

所以我们聚在一起，像组建一个智囊团一样，汇集了来自不同背景的人才，共同撰写这份治理手册——有人力资源、商业战略、金融、市场推广、产品、法律等领域的专家，应有尽有。

And therefore, we come together and almost like put together a brain trust of thoughts, and really contribute diverse backgrounds to this to writing this governance playbook, people who are experts on human resources, business strategies, finance, go to market, products, legal, you name it.

这份手册正是这些多元视角的结晶，对董事会来说非常实用，可以直接落地执行。

So this playbook really is the end result of that collection of diverse perspectives, and very practical for boards to implement.

手册里一共包含五个核心支柱。

There are five pillars in it.

每个支柱下，我们都列出了关键的考量点和该向管理层提出的问题。

And for each pillar, we have key considerations and questions to ask management.

因此，这份指南对任何董事会来说都极具参考价值，可以根据自身需求进行调整和应用。

So it's highly useful for any boards to adopt and adapt for their own needs.

非常感谢你这么详细的解释。

Thank Thank you so much for the explanation.

我很喜欢你提出的五大支柱这个视角。

And I love your like five pillar point of view.

有时候，把事情清晰地列出来真的特别有帮助。

It's really useful sometimes to have things really clearly outlined.

乔伊斯，我们很好奇，董事会该如何在推动人工智能创新的同时，确保强大的网络安全和数据隐私？

Joyce, I'm really curious if you can share with us how can boards foster a culture of AI innovation while maintaining strong cybersecurity and data privacy practices?

董事会首先应该尽快制定数据和人工智能的相关政策。

Well, the first thing the board should do is to set up data and AI policies as soon as possible.

回到我们之前提到的，知识型员工在未经许可的情况下使用人工智能，这构成了巨大风险，董事会和管理层必须立即应对。

Going back to our point earlier on the knowledge workers are using AIs with or without your permission is a huge risk that we have to address right away as a board and business leaders.

同时，培训也非常重要。

And training at the same time is very important.

和那些成熟的技术不同，我们等不起。

Unlike the mature technologies, we cannot wait.

培训必须持续进行，而且要频繁开展。

The training has to be ongoing and also frequent.

我们这里并不是要重新发明轮子，关于网络安全和数据隐私，已经有现成的做法。

Remember, we're not reinventing the wheel on cybersecurity and data privacy here.

很多企业其实已经建立了非常健全的机制，只是需要根据AI做些调整。

A lot of businesses already have very robust practices put in place, but they need to be adapted.

Joyce，这正好引出了我下一个问题：随着AI持续发展和演变，正如你提到的，企业该如何保持信息更新，调整治理方式，同时维持竞争力？

Joyce, that's a great segue to my next question, actually, because as AI continues to grow and evolve, as you mentioned, how can work can stay informed and adapt their governance practices and maintaining a competitive edge?

毕竟现在相关信息太多了，对吧？

Because there's so much out there, right?

他们总得想办法获取信息，那该怎么做才能持续了解最新动态？

They have to learn somehow, how can they keep themselves informed?

很多咨询公司和培训机构都提供了针对董事会的AI教育资源。

There are many resources provided by consultants or training organizations on board education on AI.

但最重要的是，真的要树立这种意识。

But one of the most important thing is really have that mindset.

当你处在战略层面时，怎么保持信息更新，不断问自己：如何采用一个既能保持灵活性，又能让我聚焦最重要事项的框架？

How do you stay informed as you stay at the level of being very strategic, and constantly asking, how can I be adopting a framework that would allow this flexibility while really allow me to stay focused on the most important items?

这话说得太对了。

That is so true.

AI发展得太快了，你得不断学习，同时保持战略眼光。

Like it's evolving so fast and you keep on learning and just be strategic about it.

我明白。

I get that.

除了AI之外，建设面向未来的董事会还应该考虑哪些方面？

And aside from AI, what other aspect of building future ready boards should we consider?

是的，我在和董事会讨论这个话题时，特别想强调一点：我们必须理解和接受以人为本的治理的重要性。

Yeah, one thing I feel very passionate about in talking to boards about this topic is we have to understand and embrace the importance of human centric governance.

我们可能正经历着职场历史上最重大的变革之一。

We may have one of the biggest transformation in recent history in workplaces.

我们该怎么做事？

How do we work?

我们该怎么彼此协作？

How do we work with each other?

我们该怎么跟技术配合？

How do we work with technology?

我们该怎么看待自己的角色？

How do we think about our roles?

那我们又该怎么规划自己的职业发展？

And then how do we think about our career path?

你得明白，员工们既感到担忧，同时也有潜力被激发。

You have to understand your employees are worried, and at the same time, they could be empowered.

那你要怎么制定策略和治理框架，真正考虑到这些根本性的变化？

So how do you implement strategies and governance framework that really takes into consideration of such fundamental changes.

董事会的多样性至关重要，它能带来不同的视角，让董事会从各个角度提出尖锐的问题。

Board diversity is crucial in bringing that different perspectives and allow the board to ask the hard questions from all angles.

我真心认为，这是打造面向未来董事会的一个重要方面。

And I truly believe that's one aspect of building future ready boards.

这个说法真好，就是要真正为变化做好准备，用全新的视角来看待投资。

That's a great way to put it to just really be, you know, prepared for the change and looking at investment in a different sort of way.

从董事会的角度来看，你觉得这会对金融和投资产生什么影响？

How do you think impacting finance and investing in general, especially from the board point of view?

是的，董事会在考虑投资类基金时，必须重视信息披露、透明度，以及AI在投资中具体如何应用的可追溯性。

Yeah, one of the things that boards need to consider, especially when it comes to investment type of fund boards, is that there would be have to be a lot of considerations around the right disclosure, the transparency, and also the traceability of what exactly how exactly you're using AI, what exactly is AI adding to your investments.

另一方面，作为董事会成员，你还要意识到，第三方和供应商在AI方面的风险更难察觉，需要加倍警惕。

On the other hand, as a board director, you also need to understand and be aware that third party risk, vendor risk in AI becomes a lot harder to detect and need a lot more vigilance in understanding.

我的意思是，如果你使用第三方AI模型，可能会引入偏见或隐私泄露，这些都会反过来影响使用这些工具的金融或投资公司。

So what I mean by that is when you use, for example, third party AI models that brings in biases, that brings in privacy breaches, and those will reflect poorly on the investment or finance companies that using these type of tools.

在合规方面，我们看到AI正被用来在重大损失发生前识别异常模式或欺诈行为。

From compliance, we see AI is being used to detect patterns or frauds before big damages might happen.

我们还看到AI被应用于尽职调查。

We also see AI being used in due diligence.

AI对金融服务业这个历史悠久的行业带来的影响令人振奋，因为它有可能大幅消除系统中长期存在的低效问题。

AI's impact to this very old established industry of financial services is exciting because it could potentially bring it down a lot of, inefficiencies existing in the system.

我对这种可能性感到非常兴奋，因为我觉得金融和医疗等领域很多系统真的需要一次全面更新。

I am so excited about that possibility because I feel like there's a lot of systems like in finance and health care that really could use a refresh.

我认为AI正能带来这样的革新，让最终用户和企业都能从中受益。

And I think AI might be here to bring that refresh and make things better for all of us, for the end user, for the companies.

未来会怎样我们还不知道，但这个领域确实充满希望。

So we'll see what happens, but it's an exciting space.

说到这个，乔伊斯，我想问问你，你认为AI会如何塑造金融与投资的未来？有哪些关键趋势值得我们特别关注？

And along those lines, Joyce, I wanted to know, how do you envision AI shaping the future of finance and investment, and maybe some key trends that we should keep our eyes open for?

当然。

Absolutely.

很多观众可能知道，会计领域正面临人才短缺，因为这份工作常被看作枯燥重复，年轻人不太愿意从事。

As many of your audience may know, we have a labor shortage or talent shortage in counting talents, because it's seen as boring, repetitive work not many young people want to go into.

但我们现在已经开始看到，新的AI工具正在帮助财务团队摆脱大量繁琐、劳动密集型的工作，让会计周期比以往快得多。

But we're already seeing new AI tools helping the finance teams to get rid of or automate a lot of these maintain sort of labor intensive work and then get the accounting cycles a lot faster than before.

最终结果是，这种枯燥的工作减少了，让财务人员——尤其是初级财务人员——有了更多时间去战略性地思考、创造性地工作，也更有主动性了。

And the end result is that it reduced that boring work, increased the amount of time for these finance talent, especially junior level finance talents, able to think strategically, think creatively, and be a lot more empowered in their work.

也许我们真能解决会计行业的人才短缺问题。

Maybe we'll fix that labor shortage problem in accounting.

我还想简单提一下金融和投资领域的另外两个趋势。

And maybe I'll just mention two other quick trends in finance and investing in particular.

我曾经参与并指导过一些初创公司，重新思考投资中的尽职调查和研究方式。

One thing I worked on and advised startups in is how to rethink due diligence and investment research in investing.

我坚信，借助人工智能，我们可以更清晰、更快速地把赚钱的洞察和实际工作联系起来。

I do strongly believe that by utilizing AI, we link the insights, the money making insights to the work we do a lot more clearly and quickly.

我认为，这在投资领域带来了一种根本性的转变：人机协同智能。

I think that's a fundamental change to think about co intelligence between AI and human when it comes to investment.

最后一个趋势，时间跨度可能会长一些，我希望看到更广泛的群体都能享受到高度个性化的优质金融服务。

And last trend, I would say a little bit longer term, I hope to see completely personalized high quality financial services to a much broader part of our population.

每个人都能拥有自己的财务教练和陪伴者，帮助他们把日常的财务行为和人生目标对齐。

Everyone has their own financial coach and their financial companion that help them to align their day to day financial behaviors to their life goals.

我很喜欢AI让这些以前遥不可及的东西变得触手可及。

I love that AI is democratizing some of these things that were not in reach before.

就拿我们来说，我们用Firefly.ai来记录会议，现在没人再需要做笔记了。

I mean, for us, like we use firefly.ai for our meetings and now no one has to take notes.

这真的太棒了。

Like it's amazing.

是的，完全没错。

Yeah, absolutely.

我觉得Firefly尤其重要，因为不幸的是，无论职位高低，会议中记笔记的往往都是女性。

I also think especially the firefly because majority of the time women are the ones being asked to take notes in meetings regardless of their rank unfortunately.

你说得一点都没错。

You are absolutely right.

你能跟我们说说，你创办这份通讯的初衷是什么吗？

Can you tell us a little bit more about the inspiration behind your newsletter?

我们总是会问嘉宾，你们平时都从哪里获取AI方面的信息？

We always like to ask our speakers where do they get all their AI information.

但你这边为我们的听众提供了大量信息。

But in your case, you provide a lot of the information for our listeners.

所以我们特别想知道，你是怎么想到做《给领导者的AI简化指南》这个专栏的？它是怎么帮助企业和领导者理解人工智能的？我们又该怎么推广你的内容？

So, we would just love to get your inspiration, AI Simplified For Leaders, and how it helps businesses, and business leaders understand AI and how we can spread the word of your publications.

因为就我个人而言，Women in AI 这个团队非常喜欢你的内容，我们一直在用，也希望我们的听众都能看到。

Because personally, Women in AI, we love it, we use it, we want to make sure our listeners do too.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

你一直大力支持我的通讯。

You've been a tremendous supporter of my newsletter.

我真的很感激。

I really appreciate it.

去年一月底，我正忙着和很多董事会成员交流，当时萌生了一个小想法：我特别珍惜别人的时间，那我该怎么回报这份善意？结果这个想法慢慢发展成了我特别热爱的一件事。

In late January, when I was in the midst of talking to a lot of board directors, I started with this little idea of I appreciate people's time, and then really think about how I can pay back the favor, and turns into something I really love to do.

我做这个专栏的方式，是基于我独特的视角——我做了将近二十年的投资人，也当过创业者、初创公司创始人、顾问，现在还在写关于董事会治理的文章。所以我能从战略层面，过滤掉那些杂音，挑出真正重要的东西，既不堆砌技术术语，也不追求实时热点，但又尽量让内容通俗易懂。

And then the way I approach it is because I do believe I have this unique perspective from being an investor for almost two decades, plus an entrepreneur, a startup founder, an advisor, and now writing about these governance papers on boards, I have these eyes to pick up the important things from the noise at their strategic level, without being too technical, without being too sort of real time, but at the same time, hopefully approachable.

还有一点推动力，我觉得是我不知不觉养成了‘公开学习’的心态。

And one other tailwind, I think, pushed me to do this is I started to adopt this mindset of learn in the open.

人们常常忘了，生成式AI在公众眼里才出现两年而已，对吧？

Is people tend to forget, Gen AI in public eyes is only two years old, right?

大家都能从共同学习中受益。

We can all benefit from collective learning.

如果我能把我的学习成果分享出来，让有需要的人看到，希望他们能从中获得启发，甚至开始写自己的通讯。

If I can share my learning to the public, to the open, let it find the right audience, hopefully the right audience will feel in part to implement some of the ideas or get them thinking, or even writing their own newsletter.

这将是一段非常令人兴奋的共同成长之旅。

And this is going to be very exciting co learning experience.

就像先发现问题，再主动提出解决方案一样。

Just like recognizing the problem and initiative a solution.

太棒了。

That's amazing.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

乔伊斯，跟我们说说，你的AI故事是从哪里开始的？

And tell us, Joyce, what is your AI origin story?

第一次使用AI的时候是什么情况？当时你心里是怎么想的？

Tell us about the first time you used AI and what your thoughts were when you first started using it.

当然了，没错。

Yeah, absolutely.

在生成式AI通过ChatGPT走进公众视野之前，作为投资人，我早就几年就开始在全球范围内研究AI公司了，这是我的投资工作的一部分。

So, before GenAI came into public eyes through Charge UBT3, I actually, as an investor, researched AI companies globally as part of my investment process and work since a few years ago.

当然，那种AI跟现在不一样，通常需要大量数据和前期资金投入，大多跟计算机视觉有关，而且普通用户根本负担不起。

Of course, that's different kind of AI typically require lots of data, lots of upfront capital, tend to be computer vision related, And also, not many end users can afford it.

那些AI的使用者通常是大型社交媒体平台、电商企业，或者政府机构。

Usually, the users for those AIs will be big social media, e commerce, government agencies.

时间快进到2022年，我参加了一场社交活动。

So fast forward to 2022, I actually went to a social event.

有趣的是，那位是位金融界的女性。

And interestingly, it's woman in finance.

这其实也是一个非常积极的学习环境。

So it's also a very much a positive learning environment.

在一次交谈中，我认识了OpenAI财务部门的一位高管，她简单向我介绍了他们正在做的事。

In a conversation, I got to meet with one of the executives in the finance department in OpenAI, and she briefly introduced me what they're doing.

我当时根本没多想。

I really didn't think twice about it.

两周后，他们发布了ChatGPT-3，我简直惊呆了。

And two weeks later, they released ChatGPT three, completely got blown away.

回顾我过去几年接触AI公司的经历，我从没见过哪款产品能像这样，既容易上手，又适合这么广泛的个人和商业用途。

I feel like given my history with AI companies over the last few years, I've never seen anything like this could be so approachable and accessible for almost across the board, personal use, business use.

不久之后，我就联合创办了第一家AI创业公司，从此再没回头。

I co founded my first AI startup not long after, never looked back.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

我喜欢的是，一次看似微不足道的社交互动，居然能引发这么大的转变。

I love how one, you know, small, seemingly small interaction with someone at an event can turn into this whole big thing.

其实，我们就是通过那次认识了乔伊斯。

And that's actually, how we met Joyce.

当时我们参加了一个‘女性领导力’的迎新活动，我和拉娜在城里，偶然和你擦肩而过，聊了几句。

We were at a get on board week event with how women lead and Lana and I were up in the city and happened to bump into you super briefly.

听到你也有类似的经历，因为一次偶遇开启了你的AI之路，真的特别有意思。

So it's been really fun, to hear about how you had a similar interaction that sparked your whole AI journey.

没错。

Absolutely.

太棒了。

Love that.

女性组织真的很有力量。

Such a powerful thing, these women's organizations.

创造一个像你提到的、安全的学习空间，正是我们一直努力在做的事。

And creating the space, a safe learning environment like you mentioned, is one of the things that we strive to do.

我们的听众来自AI旅程的各个阶段。

And so our listeners are at all stages of their AI journeys.

我想知道，如果你要给一位刚接触AI、还没试过任何东西的女性一些建议，你会说什么？

And one of the things I wanted to know is if you were to talk to a woman who was just getting started with AI, who maybe hasn't tried anything yet, what advice do you have for her?

我会说，先相信自己。

I would say start with believing in yourself.

别想着非得成为AI专家。

Don't aim for being AI expert.

目标是让AI成为你的得力工具。

Aim for being AI fluent.

我的意思是，与其报班上课，不如边做边学。

What I mean by that is you can start learn by doing, not by taking classes.

从小事入手，试试怎么给AI发指令，看看别人是怎么用的，慢慢就熟悉了。

Learn by just trying little things, see how other people are doing in just prompting AI, get comfortable with it.

我见过太多领导者，一说起他们用AI的案例，总先说：‘我不是AI专家，但我的团队做了这么一件事。’

I have encountered so many leaders who will tend to preface their wonderful AI use case examples with, oh, I'm not an AI expert, but here's what my team did.

或者：‘我刚接触AI没多久，但这事儿我试了试。'

Or I'm not, I'm just starting learning AI not long ago, but this is what I tried.

你猜怎么着？

And guess what?

他们的第二句话总是特别精彩、有创意、很有影响力。

Their second sentence always is a fantastic, creative, impactful idea.

我想对所有女性说，别一上来就说那第一句话。

My suggestion to all the women out there is that don't start with that first sentence.

赶紧把那句开场白扔掉，真正地感受到你完全拥有这一切。

Can you get rid of that first sentence as soon as possible and really be empowered to feel you own this.

你完全可以做到熟练使用AI。

You can be AI fluent.

当然，找一个像Women in AI这样的社群，非常支持、非常积极，你会觉得自己并不孤单。

And of course, find a community like Women in AI, very super supportive, super positive, and you will feel you are not alone.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

还有一件事特别有意思，Joyce，作为你通讯稿的忠实读者，我学到了很多。

And one of the things that's really cool, Joyce, is as a reader, an avid reader of your newsletter, I've learned so much.

有些事情一出来，我就想：哇，这我可不太懂。

Things will come out and I'm like, woah, I don't know about that.

有个很好的例子，就是你最近对RAG计算的那番解析。

A great example is recently the way that you were able to break down the rag computing.

我当时到处看相关文章，但一直没搞明白。

And I was like reading about it everywhere and wasn't really clicking.

直到读了你的通讯，突然就豁然开朗了。

And then as I was reading your newsletter, was like a switch flipped.

我这才觉得，哦，我好像真懂了。

I'm like, okay, I think I get it now.

现在我也有了这种理解力。

And I have that fluency.

能一起做到这一点、互相学习，真的特别棒。

And so it's just really cool to be able to do that together and to learn alongside each other.

是的，完全没错。

Yeah, absolutely.

乔伊斯，我想问问你，平时在工作和生活中，你是怎么使用人工智能的？

Joyce, I wanted to ask you, like, how do you use AI at your work, your personal life, professional life?

我知道你创办了AI相关的创业公司，但具体到日常，你是怎么实际应用的呢？

I know that you start up the startup for AI, but how do you really use it on the day to day?

是的，现在可用的工具一直在变。

Yeah, so the toolbox is constantly changing.

我一开始主要用它来提升效率，比如写东西、生成图片这些。

I start with productivity tools about writing, about creating images.

后来我发现，它对激发创意特别有帮助。

And eventually, I find it very helpful for me to do ideation.

比如说作为投资人，我有时候会有一些投资想法或者投资逻辑。

So for example, being an investor, I sometimes have investment ideas, I have investment thesis.

我会把我的投资逻辑告诉AI，然后让它反过来挑毛病，找它不成立的理由。

I will tell AI my investment thesis, I'll challenge AI to come up with reasons why it doesn't work.

我们就这样来回讨论，这成了我使用AI最主要的方式——它就像我的思维伙伴。

And we go back and forth about it, and that becomes more of my AI use, which is being my thought partner.

在工作方面，作为创业者，对我来说保持条理非常重要。

On the professional work, I would say, for me as an entrepreneur, obviously staying organized is very, very important for me.

为此，我经常尝试和轮换各种AI工具。

And in that regard, I have a lot of AI tools that I rotate and try.

我喜欢你跟AI打嘴仗的样子。

I love that you banter with AI.

有时候我们就是想找个对手斗一斗，有个能打的对手特别过瘾。

I feel like sometimes we want to have a little banter and having an opponent that's worthy is an excellent experience.

我真的很喜欢这样。

I love that.

而且我得说，总有一天AI会跟人道歉。

And I have to say, at some point AI will apologize.

道歉。

Apologize.

我真遇到过好几次，它突然说：‘对不起。’

I've I've had had instances instances when when it says, oh, I'm sorry.

那回答错了。

That was wrong.

然后它会给我一个新的答案。

And then it'll give me a new answer.

所以你在和AI的对话中其实是可以赢的。

So it you you could come out victorious with your discussions with AI.

或者可能是AI不想继续聊了，就随便给我点甜头敷衍一下。

Or maybe AI didn't want to continue the conversations, just give me some, you know, candy.

别说了。

Go away.

它就会

It would

说你赢了。

be like, you win.

我们明白了。

We got it.

谢谢。

Thank you.

没错。

That's right.

接下来继续聊AI的应用，我想了解一下，个人和企业使用AI时，有哪些风险需要特别注意？

And then continuing our conversation with AI use, I'd love to know what risk users should consider when deciding to use AI on a personal basis, but also for their company.

另外，你在投资AI驱动的公司时，通常会关注哪些潜在风险？

And if you can touch base slightly what risks you try to look for when investing in AI driven company.

我建议换个顺序来回答这个问题。

I would say for maybe I'll switch the order of answering this.

先说说工作场景下的使用。

Will first talk about for professional use.

我希望大多数公司都能尽快制定出AI使用规范和数据管理政策。

I hope most of companies will really start to put in place AI use policies and data policies as soon as possible.

如果拿不准，就别把信息输入AI聊天机器人，尤其是那些不安全、不私密的公共平台。

And I would just say when in doubt, just don't put the information into AI chatbot, especially if it's not grounded and private to your company.

机会在于用任务的角度来看待AI，而不是用职位。未来五年，所有职位的定义都会变。

Opportunity is to think about AI, think about your workflow in terms of tasks rather than your roles, because all the definition of roles will change over the next five years.

哪些任务能被AI完成或提升？

What tasks can be done and enhanced by AI?

为什么这个工作流程一开始就会存在？

And why does the workflow exist in the first place?

如果不使用AI，这个流程会给公司的竞争力或市场地位带来什么风险？

And then what are some of the risks in doing this workflow without using AI gonna pose to your company's competitive advantage or standing in the marketplaces?

如果你能跳脱日常事务，用AI的视角去提问，就能在当前AI普及阶段脱颖而出，抓住更令人兴奋、更具前瞻性的机会。

The ability to think a little bit above your current day to day workflow and then ask questions almost like in this AI lens can help you to stand out at this stage of AI adoption and really allow you to step up for opportunities that are more exciting and more forward looking.

我们聊了很多AI如何改善个人生活，让生活更有意义，也更贴近个人目标。

We cover a lot of opportunities about how to use AI to enhance personal life, make life more meaningful and also more aligned with your own personal goals.

但我想提醒一点，用AI来处理个人事务时要小心，因为这种情况一再发生。

But I want to caution one thing about using AI for personal purposes, because I see that happening again and again.

很多人对AI生成的职业形象照特别着迷。

A lot of people are excited about those AI professional headshots.

每个平台对你的数据——也就是你的照片——保存多久、如何用在他们的AI模型里，政策都不一样。

Every one of them have a different policy in terms of how long they hold your data, which is your picture, and then how are they going to use your data in their AI models.

在AI时代，这一点特别重要，尤其是现在深度伪造和AI诈骗层出不穷。

It matters a lot in our AI era, especially with all these deep fake and also AI powered frauds going on.

所以一定要提前搞清楚怎么退出某些服务，或者避开那些明显不合理的隐私做法，别等后悔就晚了。

So definitely make sure that you go through how to opt out on certain things or completely avoid certain really unreasonable privacy practices before you regret in the future.

这建议很好。

That is good advice.

要知道你的数据最终去了哪里。

Know where your data is going.

我从社交媒体时代就记得一句话：如果你没付钱，那你可能就是产品。

And I remember this from the social media era, if you are not paying for the product, you might be the product.

确实如此。

Very true.

对。

Yes.

我特别想知道，作为一名女性，你在AI领域是什么样的体验？

I'm real curious about what it's like for you being a woman in AI.

你有没有遇到过一些独特的挑战？

Are there any unique challenges you face?

有些问题其实早就存在了，只是在AI时代被放大了十倍，变得特别明显。

There are a few age long challenges that maybe just got bumped up 10 times more obvious in the AI era.

比如在AI相关的活动、创业路演、黑客马拉松，或者工程和投资场合里，我们可能是房间里为数不多的女性。

So for example, we may be one of the very few women in the room when it comes to an AI event, an AI startup pitch event, or a hackathon, or an engineering, or AI investing.

我们是少数派。

We are the minority.

另外，就像我之前提到的，我们往往倾向于先学很多，才敢表达观点、提出问题。

And the other thing is we do have that tendency, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, we want to learn a lot before we see our opinion, raise our questions.

但在AI发展这么快的今天，如果你总想着‘等我准备好了再说’，可能永远都觉得自己不够格，对吧？

And that in a fast evolving AI age, you would almost never feel ready if you'll have that mindset, right?

但另一方面，我觉得现在真是个特别令人兴奋的时期。

But on the other hand, I feel like this is such an exciting time.

这些挑战，既然我们现在意识到了，我就看到越来越多像你这样的社区努力。

All these challenges, now that we are aware they exist, I do see a lot more community efforts like what you're doing.

还有很多女性团体在互相帮助、支持学习，彼此鼓励，给彼此发声的机会。

And there are many other women groups who are helping each other supporting that learning effort, really uplift each other and give each other that voice.

我们接下来要攻克的挑战，显然是要把这些声音带出来，放大它们，真正把我们的智慧、观点和问题融入这个激动人心的时代。

The next challenge for us to conquer obviously is to bring that voice, amplify that voice, and really contribute our intelligence and opinions and questions to this exciting time.

我完全同意。

I fully agree.

看到这么多女性愿意来参加播客，主动邀请我们参与她们的活动，还有那么多女性实际到场，真的让人很受鼓舞。

And it's been so encouraging to see how many women are excited to come on the podcast, to see how many women are excited to invite us to things they're doing, to see how many women actually show up to the events.

几周前我办了一场演示日活动，没想到有150多人报名，现场也来了不少人，我简直惊呆了。

I mean, hosted a demo day event the other week, and I was just shocked that we had like 150 registrations come through and a good turnout from that.

看到这个领域里有这么多活跃的动静，真的特别让人振奋。

And so it was just really exciting to see all of that activity in the space.

乔伊斯就是其中之一。

Joyce was one of them.

我第一次亲眼见到她。

We saw her in I saw her in person for the first time.

我知道珍妮和拉娜之前在别的活动上见过她，但今天能亲自认识你，真的特别好，乔伊斯。

I know Jenny and Lana saw her before in another event, but it was so nice to meet you in person as well, Joyce.

没错。

Absolutely.

彼此彼此。

Right back at you.

我很好奇。

I'm curious.

AI领域里有太多出色的女性领导者了。

There are so many amazing women leading in the AI space.

你能跟我们说说，有没有哪一位女性是你特别钦佩的？为什么？

But would you be able to tell us about one woman in particular that you admire and why?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

你说得太对了。

You are so right.

值得提的名字太多了，这其实是好事。

There are so many to name, which is a good thing.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

因为一年前，当我们刚开始构思这个雅典娜AI治理指南时，部分原因就是觉得很多人身边缺乏女性榜样，这让人挺沮丧的。

Because I would say a year ago, when we started thinking about this Athena AI Governance Playbook thing, it was partially out of the frustration that there's no woman role model in AI for a lot of people to look up to.

但现在我感觉，其实有太多优秀的女性了，只是过去她们没被看见，现在终于浮出水面了。

And now I feel there are just many, they just were not visible in the past now that they've become more visible.

所以我真心为这种变化感到欣喜。

So I really truly love that growing lust.

以后我希望能把这些名单分享给你们的听众。

And hopefully, will share those lists with your audience in the future.

如果现在非得选一位女性的话，对不起啊，名单上其他所有女性，我都特别敬重你们。

So, if I have to pick one woman for now, and sorry for all the other women on my list, I love you all.

但我特别钦佩的一位女性是李艾琳。

But one woman I admire is Irene Li.

她就住在我们湾区。

She is right here in our Bay Area.

过去她参与打造过几家估值十亿美元的科技公司。

She helped build billion dollar technology businesses in the past.

她原本是法律背景，后来转战商业战略和金融领域。

She came from legal background, but went into business strategy and finance.

现在她是加州大学伯克利法学院人工智能研究所的顾问。

And currently, she serves as advisor for Berkeley Law's AI Institute.

就在本月早些时候，她还加入了加州参议院，担任人工智能顾问。

And earlier this month, she joined the California Senate as an AI advisor.

她对人工智能在法律、金融和创业圈的应用都非常了解。

She knows a lot about AI in terms of legal and finance and startup scenes.

最重要的是，也是我选她的首要原因，是她真心相信社区的力量。

Most important, I would say, and that's the number one reason for me to pick her, is that she believes in community.

她通过教育和社区活动，致力于提升整个AI领域每个人的参与度。

She believes in uplifting everyone in AI through her educational and community efforts.

她在网上还提供了大量教育资源。

And she also have a lot of educational content online.

她这么忙还坚持做这些事，真的深深打动了我。

And her effort out of her busy work to do this really resonates with me.

我们也会在节目笔记里推荐Irene、Leo和Taga。

We'll definitely follow Irene, Leo and Taga in the show notes as well.

让我们一起借助这些优秀的AI领袖，把我们的社区建设得更好。

So make sure to build our community better with all these amazing AI leaders.

Joyce，我想问问你平时从哪里获取AI方面的资讯？

Joyce, I would like to know where do you get your AI news?

你有自己的通讯简报，也有自己的社群。

You have a newsletter, you have your own community.

你平时是怎么保持信息更新的？

How do you stay up to date?

对我来说，我喜欢读几个Substack上关于这个话题的通讯。

For me, I love reading a few newsletters on Substack surrounding this topic.

我也很喜欢那些风投做的AI投资主题报告，不一定全同意，但它们总能引发思考，而且通常讲得特别通俗易懂， Definitely值得一看。

I also love those VC sort of AI investing thematic reports may or may not agree with them, but they make me think and they usually present things in a very digestible way for the audience, and then definitely check it out.

这些风投做的播客也特别有启发性，比如A16Z的播客就做得非常好。

Podcasts done by some of these VCs are also highly educational, just A16Z has a really great podcast.

因为我以前做金融，经常看财经新闻，也读公司的公告和财报。

Because my background, I read a lot of financial news, read of company sort of announcements, filings on earnings.

这些对我来说都是串联信息的重要来源。

These are for me important source to connect the dots.

但最重要的是，你要建立起自己对这个领域的专业知识，始终带着行业专家加AI通识的视角，只有这样，你才能形成自己的独特见解，分辨出哪些事在你的领域里真正重要，哪些不重要——毕竟你最懂自己的领域。

And but it's always great to develop your own source of domain knowledge and really always wear that hat of domain expert plus AI fluency, because only this way you can develop your own unique perspective and deciphering what's important, what's not important in your domain, because you know your domain the best.

这太棒了。

That's amazing.

我完全能理解这种感觉。

I can totally relate to that too.

你的下一个问题是，你为AI社区、为所有女性、为多样性做了这么多。

And my next question is, you're doing so much for the AI community, so much for women out there and for diversity.

那么我想问，Women in AI和我们的社区，能怎么帮你更好地实现你的目标呢？

And now my question is, how can the Women in AI and our community help you be more successful in what you do?

是的，我特别欣赏你所做的事。

Yeah, I love what you do.

让更多女性在社区里感到有力量去学习，不管她们从哪里开始。

Getting more women in the community feel empowered to learn no matter where they're starting at.

让她们明白：我能行，别再说‘我不是专家’，而要记住‘我有个很棒的想法’。

Getting them to say, can do this, get rid of that first sentence, I'm not an expert, but I have this great idea.

只要专注于‘我有个很棒的想法’这一部分就够了。

Just focus on I have the great idea part.

如果你能继续坚持下去，那就太好了，也告诉我我能怎么支持你。

And that's really great if you can continue to do what you're doing and let me know how I can support you.

我们都在一起学习，一起成长。

We all learn and grow together.

乔伊斯，你能加入我们的社区，我们真的太幸运了。

We're so lucky to have you as part of our community, Joyce, really.

非常感谢你来参加我们的播客，成为我们节目和社区的一员。

I can't thank you enough for coming on our podcast and being a part of our show and our community.

也要感谢我们的听众，和我们一起庆祝、教育并赋能女性在人工智能领域的发展。

And I want to thank our listener too for joining us as we celebrate, educate and empower women in AI.

你可以随时收听或在任何播客平台下载我们的节目。

You can tune in, download our show anywhere you get your podcast.

你也可以访问我们的网站 womennai.com，加入我们的社区，了解最新活动信息，提名你认为应该上我们播客的女性。

You can also visit our website, womennai.com, where you can join our community, get the latest of our events and nominate a woman that you think should come on our podcast.

感谢你收听《女性在AI》。

Thank you for tuning in to Women in AI.