如何管理：为团队谈判

毕马威通过创造价值彰显不同，例如开发战略洞察助力并购成功，或将人工智能解决方案嵌入企业以维持竞争优势。毕马威，成就差异。了解更多请访问 www.kpmg.us/insights。

KPMG makes the difference by creating value, like developing strategic insights that help drive m and a success or embedding AI solutions into your business to sustain competitive advantage. KPMG, make the difference. Learn more at www.kpmg.us/insights.

您正在收听的是《哈佛商业评论》的《职场女性》。我是凯尔西·阿尔佩奥。我是艾米·伯恩斯坦。当

You're listening to Women at Work from Harvard Business Review. I'm Kelsey Alpeo. And I'm Amy Bernstein. When

你带领一个团队时，他们会向你提出延长截止日期、加薪、增加资源等请求。也许他们甚至不必开口，你就注意到了需求，并开始思考如何满足

you lead a team, they come to you with requests to extend a deadline, to get a raise, to get more resources. Maybe they don't even have to ask. You just notice the need, you start thinking about how to meet

就我个人而言，我发现为他人谈判比为自己谈判更让我充满动力。我不会犹豫太多，也不用担心显得咄咄逼人。实际上，我比平时更容易得到我想要的东西。

it. Personally, I found negotiating for others to be energizing in a way that negotiating for myself wasn't. I didn't hesitate so much or worry about coming across as aggressive. I actually got what I wanted more than usual.

我也有同样的经历，研究表明很多女性都有完全相同的体验。

That was my experience too, and research shows that a lot of women have that very same experience.

在我看来，当我们不那么担心性别反弹时，我们就会更自由地以最有效的方式进行谈判。

It seems to me that we become more free to negotiate in a way that's most effective when we are worried less about this gender backlash.

马莎·荣是香港科技大学的管理学教授，研究人们在谈判中的行为方式以及哪些行为有效。例如，她曾为《哈佛商业评论》撰文，指出在某些情况下表现得热情友好会适得其反。不过，马莎也并不建议我们一上来就咄咄逼人。

Martha Jung is a management professor at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. She studies the ways people act when they're negotiating and which behaviors are effective. For instance, she's written for HBR about how being warm and friendly backfires in certain situations. Not that Martha recommends we come out swinging either.

她曾是一名诉讼律师，认为谈判本质上是对抗性和争论性的。后来她成为学者，放下了法庭态度。她的新研究方向是公司内部同事间的协作决策。

She used to be a litigation attorney and thought that negotiations were inherently confrontational and argumentative. Then she became an academic and set aside the courtroom attitude. Her new beat was collaborative decision making at companies among colleagues.

我们很多利益，尤其是在职场内部的工作。对吧？其实很多利益是一致的。对吧？所以，如果你在心里这样框定，会帮助你在谈判中取得进展，也能减轻你对谈判的焦虑或担忧。

A lot of interests that we have, especially if you're thinking about the work within the workplace. Right? Like, lot of our interests are actually aligned. Right? And so if you frame it in in that way in your mind, it will help you with the negotiation, but also help you in terms of not feeling so anxious or or apprehensive about doing it.

马莎将帮助我们理解什么是可谈判的，我们的权限从哪里开始到哪里结束，以及为什么经验丰富的谈判者会通过一系列非正式对话，而不是一次正式的大谈判来取胜。

Martha's here to help us understand what's negotiable, where our authority begins and ends, and that a series of casual conversations instead of one big serious one is how experienced negotiators win.

玛莎，当一个人第一次走上管理岗位时，到底有哪些东西是可以谈判的？

Martha, when someone moves into her first managerial job, what is actually negotiable?

是的，我觉得关键是要记住，组织希望我和我的团队成功，但真正最了解团队需要什么才能成功的，是我这个位置上的人。所以除了考虑个人经济或客观结果——比如我的团队成员薪水够吗？他们有没有加薪？有没有得到足够的认可？有没有晋升？

Yeah, I think the important thing to remember is that the organization wants me and my team to succeed, but really I'm in the position to know the best in terms of what my team needs to succeed. And so in addition to thinking about individual economic or objective outcomes such as are my team members getting paid enough? Are they getting their raises? You know, are they being recognized enough? Are they getting promoted?

你还应该思考，我的团队在日常工作中需要什么才能开心并发挥最佳水平？这可以问：工作什么时候完成？做的是什么类型的工作？也就是说，大家是否拿到有意义、有挑战、能激励人的任务？是否在正确的项目上？

You should also think about what does my team need on an everyday working basis to be happy and working at their best? And so that could be asking questions like, you know, when is the work done? What kind of work is being done, right? So are people getting good, relevant, challenging, motivating work? Are they working on the right projects?

所以，如果你的总体框架是记住每个人都希望你成功，你的利益其实跟组织是一致的，这并不是说事情就简单，确实有限制，肯定有需要努力的地方。但我认为，如果你秉持这个总体框架——我谈判的一切也与组织目标和利益一致——那会让谈判更好、更有效。

So if your overall framework, you remember that everyone wants you to succeed and your interests are actually aligned. I mean, it's not saying that it's easy. There are constraints. There's definitely things that need to be worked up. But I think if you have that overall framework that everything that I am negotiating for is also aligned with the organizational goals and interests, I think that makes for a much better and effective negotiation.

我想追问一下。你提到了限制。当你作为新经理想招新人、给团队里的谁加薪时，在提出诉求时，除了自己狭窄的视野，还应该考虑哪些因素？

I wanna ask a follow-up to that. You mentioned the constraints. And when you as a new manager are trying to make a new hire, get a raise for for someone on your team, what factors should you be considering outside your own narrow purview as you're formulating your ask?

你应该总是从多个角度思考。比如说，对你来说最突出的是团队超负荷，你需要加人。你往往会变得非常狭隘：我有这些需求，这些需求没被满足，你得满足它们。

You should always think about it from multiple perspectives. Right? So let's say for you, what's most salient is your team is overworked. You need someone else. Oftentimes, you tend to get very narrowly focused on, I have these needs, and these needs are not met, and you need to meet these needs.

我觉得你会把问题看得太窄，也把解决方案看得太窄。把两者都拓宽很重要。所以如果要招新人，不该是“哦，我需要这个，我需要这个，我的团队需要这个”。

And I think you focus narrowly on the problem, and you focus narrowly on the solution. Broadening both are important. And so if it's that new hire, it shouldn't be, Oh, I need this. I need this. My team needs this.

而应该是：为了让这个团队长期保持高产，我们的组织确实需要在这个部门增加人手。你老板可能会说“我跟你说过有招聘冻结”，你会说“是的，我理解，但说实话，如果继续这样，大家会 burnout，生产力可能下降，有人可能离职，然后我们又得招聘和培训，那成本很高”，对吧？强调这也是组织的长远利益。然后拓宽解决方案，就是认识到可能有多种方式满足你的需求。有些对客户的截止日期是否可以灵活？

It should be, In order to keep this team productive in the long term, our organization really needs more manpower in this department. And your boss might say, I told you that there's a hiring freeze, you're like, yes, I understand, but honestly, I feel like if this continues, people are going to burn out, productivity might decrease, people might leave, and then we have to hire and train, and that's very costly, right? Stressing the fact that, you know, this is also in the organization's long term interest. And then broadening the solution is recognizing that there may be multiple ways to get at what you need. Are some of these deadlines with clients flexible?

或者我们能不能找些兼职帮忙？能不能重新调配一些资源？所以你提出你认为最好的解决方案，但也愿意听听其他可能的办法。

Or is it that we can have some part time help? Is it that we can shuffle some resources around? So you make your ask in terms of what you think is the best solution, but you're also open to hearing about other potential solutions.

说到这点，我也总是带着一个具体目标去谈判。这让我更难判断：我在这轮谈判里到底已经走到头了没有？我怎么知道我已经为团队争取到了能争取的一切？

To that point too, like, I always went into negotiations having a specific goal in mind. So it made it harder to know, okay, when have I actually reached as far as I can in this negotiation? How do I know that I've gotten everything that I can get for my team?

是的。所以我认为提前思考这些事情真的很有好处。当你准备进入谈判时，最好的情况是什么？最坏的情况是什么？还有，最现实的情况是什么？

Yeah. So I think it's really good to think about these things ahead of time. So as you approach a negotiation, what's the best case scenario here? What is the worst case scenario here? And also what's the most realistic scenario?

当我们谈论或教授谈判时，我们会提到一个叫BATNA和保留点的概念。BATNA，也就是谈判协议的最佳替代方案。我们总是有一个的。无论你即将开始什么谈判，如果谈判破裂，你总有某种替代方案。在开始谈判之前认清这一点非常重要，因为如果不这样做，在关键时刻，你可能会忘记，如果谈判条款对你不利，你其实不必如此绝望地让谈判成功。

When we talk about or teach negotiations, we talk about something called a BATNA and reservation points. So the BATNA, right, is the best alternative to a negotiated agreement. We always have one. Whatever negotiation you're about to start, you always have some kind of alternative if this negotiation falls apart. And it's really important to acknowledge what that is before you start the negotiation because if you don't, in kind of the heat of the moment, you may forget that you don't have to be so desperate in making this negotiation work if it's not coming to terms that are good for you.

而保留点或保留价值基本上就是，你在哪个点上会退出这场对话。也许情况会改变。但在进入谈判之前思考这些问题很重要，因为特别是当你和一个非常老练、经验丰富的谈判者谈判时，他们可能会开始改变你心中的保留点。你会想，哦不，我觉得他们说得对。他们太有说服力了。

And then the reservation point or reservation value is basically, at what point do you kind of walk away from this conversation at this point? Like perhaps things can change. But it's important to think about these things before you enter into negotiation because especially when you're negotiating with someone who's very good and very experienced, they can start to change your reservation point in your mind. You're like, oh no, think they're right. They're so persuasive.

我觉得我应该接受这个协议或达成这个协议，即使它对我并不是那么有利。所以我认为在开始谈判之前，先思考这些参数真的很重要。

I think that I should just take this agreement or make this agreement when it's not so beneficial for you. So I think thinking about these parameters are really important before you actually start to negotiate.

听到这种来回的对话，让我想起了很多我经历过的谈判，随着时间的推移，我觉得自己在失去力量，尽管事实证明我可能一开始就没有。但我确实把它当成个人问题，尽管没得到我想要的，或者我不是一个好的管理者或谈判者，并不是针对我个人。当我不是这场对话的赢家时，我该如何在作为新经理的过程中保持信心？当你在这些对话中来回拉锯，迟迟得不到你想要的结果时，你该如何保持自信？

Hearing about these kind of back and forth conversations, it reminds me a lot of conversations, negotiations I had where over time, I just felt like I was losing my power even though it it turns out I probably, like, didn't even have it to begin with. But I did take it personally even though it wasn't personal that I wasn't getting what I wanted or that I wasn't a good manager or negotiator because I wasn't winning this conversation. How do you keep your confidence up as a new manager when you're navigating these conversations and they're going on and on and on and you're going back and forth and you're not really getting what you want?

我想到几点。首先，当你为他人争取利益时，比如为你的团队谈判，失望感会更强烈，因为你会觉得让团队成员失望了。所以我认为在开始谈判之前，与团队成员非常坦诚地沟通很重要，让他们知道可能会有一些限制，我也许无法在这个时间点上得到我们设想的一切，这样你就不会感到那么大的压力。确实，谈判可能会让人疲惫，情绪也会开始介入，尤其是当谈判被拉长时。而当你思考为什么会这样，通常是因为你开始争论，进入了竞争心态。

So there's a few things that come to mind. First is when you're advocating for someone else, right, you're negotiating for your team, the disappointments will feel even greater because you feel like you're letting down or disappointing people on your team. So I think it's really important that before you start the negotiation, you are very open and honest with your team members that there may be constraints where I can't get exactly what we're envisioning at this time perhaps just so that you don't feel this pressure. For sure, negotiations, they can be tiring and emotions start to get involved especially as they get drawn out. And then when you think about why that usually happens is because you start arguing and you're in this competitive mindset.

所以你可能一开始的框架是我们的利益是一致的，然后你开始进入更竞争的心态。你在争论，觉得自己在输掉争论，或者争论不公平，然后一些情绪就开始介入。所以困难的一部分可能是我的老板没有看到我提供的解决方案的价值。但如果我能让他或她相信问题是真实且重要的，那么我会更愿意接受他们的解决方案，这也没关系，因为最终，如果问题得到解决，即使不是用我的方式，如果我们能共同思考如何解决这个问题，那么这对每个人都是一种胜利。

So you may have first started out with the framework of our interests are aligned and then you start to get into a more competitive mindset. You're arguing, you feel like you're losing the argument or the argument's unfair and then some of those emotions start to get involved. And so perhaps some of the difficulty is my boss is not seeing the value of the solution that I'm providing. But if I can convince him or her that the problem is real and important, and then I will be more open to their solutions, which is fine too because at the end of the day, if the problem gets resolved, even if it's not my way of addressing the problem, if we are able to jointly think of how to solve that problem, then that's a win for everyone.

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网址是netsuite.com/women@work。

That's netsuite.com/women@work.

所以我在你的回答中听到的一点是，玛莎，你必须带着一个会被认真对待的管理者的自信走进去。这对很多第一次担任管理角色的女性来说真的很难。你对我们的听众有什么建议吗？当你第一次成为管理者时，你有没有进行过什么自我对话？

So one of the things I'm hearing in your answers, Martha, is that you have to walk in with the confidence of someone who's taken seriously as a manager. And that's really hard for a lot of women in their first managerial roles. Do you have some advice for our listeners? Is there self talk that you've done in your role when you first became a manager yourself?

是的。我觉得当你突然觉得自己在谈判中需要被认真对待、需要表现得或说话方式不一样时，那种压力太大了。所以我会把“我怎样才能被认真对待”当成每天积累的东西。如果你是对组织有价值的人，那你自然会被认真对待，你的需求和利益也会被认真对待。

Yeah. I think that it's too much pressure when you feel like all of a sudden for this negotiation, I need to be taken seriously and I need to act or talk differently. And so I think about how am I going to be taken seriously is something that you've built up every day. If you are someone who is value add to that organization, then you are going to be taken seriously. And your needs and interests are going to be taken seriously.

所以，当你开始考虑谈判时，其实就是说：这些是我和我的团队需要的东西，这样我才能继续做我正在做的工作。

And so, when you think about starting a negotiation, it's really, these are some of the things I need and my team needs so that I can continue to do the work that I'm doing.

我们在前几集里也聊过，需要被看作既友善可爱，又有权威感。尤其在谈判场景里，我觉得这是个挑战。玛莎，我知道你有一些关于谈判中“友善”的研究，它到底会带来什么、不会带来什么。

Another thing that we talked about in the last couple of episodes as well is, you know, needing to be perceived as nice and likable, but also authoritative. And especially in the negotiation setting, I think that's a challenge. Martha, I know you have some research around being nice in a negotiation and what that does and doesn't do for you.

对，这是我最喜欢的研究项目之一。背景是我们研究的是完全竞争型谈判，比如买卖双方就一件商品的价格讨价还价。我们把经济报价保持不变，只改变报价的表达方式：更温暖友好，还是更强硬坚定。

Yeah. So this is one of my favorite projects I've worked on. And so the context, the negotiation context in which we studied this was with purely competitive negotiations where people are negotiating over the price of an item, like a buyer seller role. And we kept the economic offers the same, but all we did is change how those offers were communicated. So more warm and friendly or more tough and firm.

具体来说，当谈判者被要求“温暖友好”时，他们会更礼貌，显著增加礼貌用语：打招呼、问候、表达感谢、称赞对方。而被要求“强硬坚定”时，他们并不是变成混蛋，只是把那些通常用来表示礼貌和友好的词去掉，更直接、更简洁。

And what I mean by that exactly is that when people were told to be warm and friendly in a negotiation, they were more polite. They really increased their levels of politeness. So greeting, salutations, showing gratitude, making compliments. And then when people were told to be tough and firm, it wasn't like they were being jerks, but they were just kind of taking out all those words that we usually say to be polite and warm and friendly. They would just be more direct and to the point.

“你得降价。”而温暖友好的人会把这句话包裹在很多缓冲和条件语里：“您能否降点价？”或者“如果您方便的话，我需要您降点价。”研究发现，强硬坚定的人在经济上表现更好。

You need to lower your price. Whereas someone who's warm and friendly would couch that with a lot of hedges, a lot of conditional language. Would you, could you lower the price? Or I need you to lower the price if that would be okay with you. And what we found in that research is that people who were tough and firm did a lot better economically.

有趣的是，当你在谈判中对对方温暖友好，对方在语言上也会温暖友好地回应你，所以语言上有互惠；但在经济上他们会更竞争，于是你要的东西就得不到。需要提醒的是，这项研究是在完全竞争型谈判里做的，买卖双方分蛋糕，你多我就少。

And what was interesting is that when you are warm and friendly to someone in a negotiation, they are warm and friendly back to you. So there is reciprocity linguistically, but they are much more competitive with you economically. So you don't get the things that you're asking for. And one caveat to note is that that research was done in a purely competitive negotiation setting, right? Buyer seller, we're cutting up the pie, the more you get the less I get.

你在职场中的谈话不会是这种一次性的——你还会再见到老板，有声誉、有长期关系，也不是我们说的那种纯竞争谈判。但我觉得基本的心理机制仍然适用。因此，给出可操作的结论：做完这项研究后，我在工作场合提任何请求时，都会更注意用词。

The conversations that you're gonna be having in the workplace are not gonna be these one time, right? You're gonna see your boss again, right? There's reputation, there's long term at stake, and they're not these purely competitive negotiations as we already talked about. But I think some of the basic psychological mechanism remains the same. And so in terms of actionable advice, and after I've done that research, I'm much more careful in the words that I use to make any kind of request in the workplace setting.

所以无论是说话还是写邮件，我都会尽量去掉那些缓冲和条件语，因为我觉得没必要。那样并不显得粗鲁，只是让请求更直接。对吧？没必要加一堆 fluff 让它看起来更友好、更礼貌，因为我觉得结果会是：对方嘴上对你礼貌，但把你视为不那么有主导权、不那么有经验，于是更不可能给你想要的。

So when I'm talking or emails, I really try to take out some of the hedges and the conditional language because I feel like it's not necessary. It doesn't come off as rude. Just comes off as more direct in what you're asking for. Right? There's no need to add all this fluff to make it seem more friendly and more polite because I think what happens is that people will be polite back to you, but they see you as perhaps less dominant, less experienced, and so they're less likely to give what you're asking.

日常社交对话里， conversational politeness 很棒；但在职场里，当你在为对自己职业重要的东西提请求、做争取时，没必要加那么多 conversational politeness。所以

Conversational politeness is great for social conversations, but in a workplace setting, right, when you're making requests and advocating for things that are important to someone's career, right, you don't need to add all of that conversational politeness. So

我与老板或任何谈判对象的关系如何影响谈判？我该如何建立一种关系，让我获得可信度、轻松的对话氛围，或任何能让谈判更顺利的东西，并希望最终让我得到我所要求的。

how does the relationship you have with your boss or whoever you're negotiating with factor in? How do I think about building the relationship that will bring me the credibility, the ease of conversation, whatever it is that will smooth the negotiation, and I hope get me what I'm asking for.

我看到的研究说，女性参与谈判的次数少得多，而男性会进入一些他们甚至没意识到是谈判的谈判。对女性来说，想法是：好吧，我得跟老板谈我团队成员的晋升。于是你没有建立日常对话，突然觉得自己得带着这个请求或谈判扑上去。而男性往往不经意就进行这些对话，甚至不觉得自己在谈判，比如：哦，我团队里有人，我真觉得他们该晋升，他们表现很好，却被跳过。他们根本没意识到自己在谈判或替团队成员争取。

I read research that women engage a lot less in negotiations and men enter into negotiations that they didn't even realize were negotiations. For women, it's this idea that, okay, I need to have this negotiation with my boss about my team member's promotion. And you don't build up kind of regular conversations and all of a sudden you feel like you need to pounce on them with this request or this negotiation. Whereas oftentimes men will just have these conversations without even thinking that they're entering into a negotiation being like, Oh, someone on my team, I really think they need to be promoted, they work so well, but they are passed up for a promotion. They don't even realize that they're actually negotiating or advocating for their team member.

所以我认为，尤其作为女性管理者去谈判时，要考虑那些你可以更随意、日常进行的对话，如果可能的话，用更自然的方式逐步建立关系和沟通，而不是平时不做，一下子攒到这种一次性大请求或正式谈判才说。

And so I think, especially as a female manager negotiating, think about the conversations that you can have more casually on an everyday basis if possible, that kind of builds up your relationship and communication in a more natural way instead of not doing that and kinda saving it for these, like, one time big requests or negotiate formal negotiations.

所以听起来谈判其实就是建立关系。就是长期建立关系、持续沟通，然后引向那次更大的对话。

So it kinda sounds like negotiating is really just relationship building. It's like building that relationship over time and having that communication over time to then lead to that bigger conversation.

是的，我觉得你说得对。而且随着关系建立，你越了解一个人，就越喜欢他们、信任他们，对吧？

Yeah. I think I think that's right. Right. And also with relationship building, as you get to know someone better, you like them and you trust them. Right?

信任在让这些谈判尽可能有效方面极其重要，因为如果你信任某人，而他们提出某种请求，你会相信他们提出的是合理且真正必要的请求。所以我认为，日常的关系建设——喜欢、信任、沟通你的需求——是非常非常重要的。

And trust is so important in making these negotiations as effective as possible because if you trust someone and they're making some kind of request, you're gonna trust that they're making a reasonable and good request that's actually necessary for them. So I think that relationship building every day of liking and trust and communication about your needs is something that's really, really important.

明白了。玛莎，这太有启发了。非常感谢你加入我们。

Got it. Martha, this has been so informative. Thank you so much for joining us.

谢谢。非常感谢你们。

Thank you. Thank you so much.

毕马威创造不同，通过创造价值，例如开发战略洞察助力并购成功，或将人工智能解决方案嵌入您的业务以保持竞争优势。毕马威，创造不同。了解更多请访问 www.kpmg.us/insights。

KPMG makes the difference by creating value, like developing strategic insights that help drive m and a success or embedding AI solutions into your business to sustain competitive advantage. KPMG, make the difference. Learn more at www.kpmg.us/insights.

回想我当新经理时那些谈判的失误和成功，我意识到所有谈判成功的时刻，都是因为我没有把它当成私人恩怨。我真正关注的是确保我的团队和我自己获得做好工作所需的一切。我觉得玛莎告诉我们的一切正好印证了这一点。

You know, reflecting on some of the negotiation mistakes, but also successes I had when I was a new manager, I realized all of the times that I was successful in negotiation, it was because I didn't take it personally. I was really focused on making sure my team and myself were getting everything they needed to do their best work. And I think everything that Martha told us just kind of underlines that.

没错。不过我敢说你把团队的利益放在了自己的利益之前。

Yep. Although I bet you put your team's interests before your own interests.

是啊。我是说，我先为我的直属下属争取加薪，然后才考虑为自己争取。

Yeah. I mean, I negotiated for a raise for my direct report before I ever tried to negotiate for one for myself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

现在回想起来挺奇怪的，但这其实很有道理。你知道，我倾向于避免冲突。我倾向于避免谈判，因为个人层面上我会被吓到。但当我能把自己抽离出来，把情感因素放到一边，只把它当作一个我要解决的简单问题时，我就——我不知道？感觉就像我能做到任何事一样。

And that's weird to reflect on now, but it it makes a lot of sense. You know, I tend to avoid conflict. I tend to avoid negotiations because I'm intimidated by them on a personal level. But when I'm able to kind of separate myself from that and separate myself from the emotional aspects of it and just look at it as simple as the problem that I'm trying to solve, I can I don't know? It's it feels like I can do anything when I do that.

对。我一直觉得为团队——为队友争取，比为自己争取容易多了。我觉得我们很多人都有这种感觉，你不觉得吗？

Yeah. I've always found it way easier to argue for the team Yeah. For a teammate than for myself. I think a lot of us feel that way. Don't you?

确实。当我成为经理，开始为各种事情争取的时候——

I do. When I became a manager and I started negotiating for all this stuff

嗯。

Mhmm.

我甚至都没意识到那是在谈判。所以我想这也让它对我来说更容易些，我没有走进这些对话时想着‘这是一场谈判，我最好把我要争取的每一点都写下来’。我没有因为给每一次和老板的对话贴上‘谈判’的标签而吓到自己。嗯。

I don't even think I realized I was negotiating. And so I think that's also what made it a little bit easier for me was I wasn't going into these conversations saying, this is a negotiation. I better, you know, write down every single thing I need to ask for. Like, I didn't intimidate myself by labeling every single conversation I had with my boss a negotiation. Yeah.

尽管那确实可以算是一场谈判。我是说，我发现——

Even though it could be considered one. I mean, I found

在和玛莎的谈话过程中，我一直在回想我作为经理所提出的那些要求——嗯——而不是谈判。我想原因完全一样。但很多时候，那是在请求推迟截止日期。嗯。

in the course of the conversation with Martha that I kept thinking about things I had asked for Mhmm. As a manager rather than negotiation. I think for exactly the same reason. But a lot of times, it's asking to move deadlines. It's Mhmm.

请老板帮你做权衡决策。你知道，我的团队不可能同时完成这件事的截止日期和那边那件事的截止日期，所以我们要给它们排个优先级。因此，我真正必须学会的一件事就是，整合所有事实，理解团队战略、事业部战略、组织战略，并用这些术语来表述我的请求。

Asking your boss to help you make a decision about trade offs. You know, my team cannot possibly meet this deadline for this thing and the deadline over here for that thing, so let's prioritize one over the other. And so one of the things I really had to learn how to do was to marshal all of my facts to understand the team strategy, the business unit strategy, the organization strategy, and frame my request in those terms.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后为了更大的利益而提出请求，对吧？对。我觉得玛莎就在谈这个，但这是我要培养的一项技能。

And then to ask on behalf of the greater good. Right? Right. Which I think Martha was talking about, but that was a skill I had to develop.

是啊，有点像在做全局优化。我喜欢优化。我觉得这也是我当经理时谈判更容易些的原因，因为我把它看作：好，我们怎样才能作为一个团队完成最多的事情？

Yeah. It's kind of like optimizing Yeah. Everything. And I love I love optimizing. I think that's why negotiating as a manager was a little bit easier for me because I saw it as, okay.

我们怎样才能作为一个团队完成最多的事情？

How can we as a team get the most done?

我还觉得，当我半说半问地提要求时，我总会想到我论点的后半部分——我不想在这个过程中把团队拖垮，对吧？所以当我请求推迟截止日期、重新设定优先级时，我通常想的是，我们有一支110%投入的团队，他们会不惜个人和家庭代价去完成该做的事。我觉得我们作为管理者的职责，就是确保他们不必做出那种牺牲。

I also think that when I'm asking for something sort of half saying, half telling, half asking, I always think about the second part of my argument, which is and I don't want to break the team in the process. Right? So when I'm asking for deadlines to be moved, priorities to be set differently, usually what I'm thinking about is, you know, we've got a team full of people who are a 110% committed, and they will do what needs to be done at a high cost to themselves Mhmm. And their families. And that's sort of I feel like our job as managers is to make sure they don't have to make that sacrifice.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你刚才说了一个有趣的点：‘请求’和‘告知’。那是什么？

You said something interesting. Asking versus telling. What is

玛莎在谈我们得停止用模糊语言，对吧？

that? So Martha was talking about how we have to stop hedging with our language. Right?

而且

And

有时候你得让对方知道你的请求有多紧急。嗯。我们得决定哪个更重要，项目A还是项目B。

sometimes you have to communicate the urgency of your request. Mhmm. We have to decide which is more important, project A or project B.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果你用一堆模糊的词把请求包装起来，比如“如果您不介意的话”“如果有可能的话”，而不是把迫使你提出请求的背景说清楚：我有两个人病倒了，还有一个人身心俱疲，大家开始掉链子，连从不掉链子的人也开始出错。我能看到工作质量在下滑，因为我们想一口气做太多事。这就是我所说的那种请求。说真的，听自己这么讲，我觉得我真不该让事情拖到这种地步。

And if you couch that request in hedging language, if you don't mind, if it's at all possible, instead of making clear the context that has driven you to make this request. I have two people who are out sick, and I have another person who is exhausted physically and emotionally exhausted, and people are starting to drop balls, people who don't drop balls are starting to drop balls. I can see the quality of the work is slipping because we're trying to do too much at once. That is what I am referring to, that kind of request. I mean, I hope I actually, listening myself say that, I'm thinking I should never let things get to that point.

但有时候你得说“这就是我们必须要做的”，而不是“我们能不能做这个”。

But sometimes you have to say that this is what we need to do rather than can we do this.

对对，这种模糊用词我确实还得改。我总觉得那样显得客气、讨人喜欢。但你说得对，有时候这关系到同事们的生计。最直接、也最善良的做法就是直说：嘿，我们得这么做，才能让团队不被累垮。

Yeah. Yeah. The hedging language thing is something I definitely still need to work on. And I think it goes back to me conflating it with niceness and likability. But I think to your point, sometimes it's about the livelihoods of the people you work with.

我刚当经理时，一直搞不清自己的权限到底在哪儿，结果连哪些事需要跟老板商量、哪些不用都分不清。我的权力从哪儿开始到哪儿结束？

And really the nicest thing you can do is be direct in saying, hey, we need to do this to help the team not burn out. Yep. When I was a new manager, I was constantly struggling with figuring out where my authority was. And that sometimes made it hard to figure out what I actually did need to negotiate with my boss and what I didn't. Like, where did my authority begin and end?

我想了很多，因为当初我几乎什么事都问老板，几乎没自己拍过板。一是我对自己没信心，二是我觉得必须这样。嗯。那你怎么知道自己的权限边界在哪儿？

And I was thinking about that a lot as we talked with Martha because I asked my boss for almost anything. I barely made a decision that I didn't run by him. And I think partially because I didn't have a ton of confidence in myself and partially because, you know, I felt like I needed to. Mhmm. How do you figure out where your authority ends and your bosses begins?

问啊。

You ask.

我以前总想自己揣摩，看看有没有什么蛛丝马迹能透露我权限的边界。

So, you know, I used to try to just sort of suss it out and and figure out you know, there will be hints about the limits of my authority.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我该承担哪些职责？我一直对那些自己拍板的人感到惊讶，他们会做我本应该上报给经理的决定，而这些人我还视为平级。但最快搞清楚的办法，就是和经理谈一次角色与职责。你可以开门见山地说：我初来乍到，需要您帮我理清哪些决定我能做，哪些不能。在我摸透您对这些事的思路前，也希望您多指导。

What's expected of me? And I was always kind of amazed by people who took it upon themselves to make decisions that I would have taken to my manager, people I considered my peers. But here's the quickest way to figure that out, is to have the roles and responsibilities conversation with your manager. You know, you can even open it up by saying, I'm new in this role, and so I'm gonna need your help figuring out where I have decision rights and where I don't. And I'd also like your guidance until I've absorbed the way you think about these kinds of decisions.

然后可以说：这些地方我想先跟您同步，直到我们想法一致，这样行吗？哪些地方您坚持我必须请示？哪些事您不想再被我打扰？

And say, here's where I would like to be able to check-in with you until I feel like we're sort of simpatico. Does that work for you? And where where do you want me to make sure to check-in with you? Mhmm. And what would you like not to have me check-in on?

嗯。

Yeah.

这会有帮助。但我建议你先带一个方案去，因为一次谈话让人现场想这么多挺费劲。你们一起磨合后，老板可能会说：行了，这事以后不用问我，我放心你拍板。

That can be helpful. But I would go with a proposal because, you know, that's a lot of stuff for someone to pull together in one conversation. And then you kind of work it out, and your boss will probably say, you know what? You don't need to check-in on that anymore. I'm totally comfortable with the way you make this decision.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你也可能听到：下次再遇到这种事，记得先跟我打个招呼，因为我得知道，万一上面追问，我好交代，对吧？

And you may also hear, you know what? Next time you make a decision about this sort of thing, do check-in with me. Mhmm. Because, you know, I need to I I just need to know in case my overlords come after me about it. Right?

对。那假设你答应了下属的请求。

Right. So say you do say yes to something that your direct report is asking for.

嗯。

Mhmm.

结果你老板知道了，对此并不满意，甚至想让你撤回决定，这时候你怎么办？

And then, you know, your boss finds out they're not totally cool with the decision you've made. They maybe even want you to walk it back. What do you do in that situation?

首先，我会再谈一次决策权限，别带防御情绪。得谦逊点说：抱歉，我理解错了，请帮我厘清权责边界，到底线划在哪儿？

Well, I think well, first of all, have a conversation about decision rights Mhmm. And not defensively. You wanna be a little humble here and say, I'm sorry, misunderstood. So help me understand where the lines of authority are. Where's the boundary?

你希望我在哪些方面先跟你确认，哪些方面不需要？我不会再那样做了。但要试着深入了解，避免再犯同样的错误，对吧？

What is it you would like me to check with you on, and what would you like me not to check with you on? I won't do that again. But try to get underneath it to understand so you don't make that mistake again, right?

然后

And

你得回到那个你答应了的人面前，说：‘好吧，我本不该答应的，我为此道歉。’这很丢脸，但你会挺过去，下次会更聪明。

then you do have to go back to the person you said yes to, and say, Okay, I shouldn't have said yes, and I apologize for that. It's humbling, but Yeah. You'll survive and you'll be smarter the next time.

是啊。我当经理时也遇到过几次，感觉糟透了。感觉就像我的权威被质疑了。可同时，我觉得只是因为我们没沟通好。

Yeah. I feel like that happened to me a couple times when I was a manager. It always felt so bad. I it, like, felt like it did feel like my authority was being questioned. But at the same time, I think it was just because we didn't communicate about it.

对。当你的权威被老板质疑时，确实不好受。但如果老板来找你说：‘你知道吗，那次我很尴尬，因为我掌握了一些信息，本该影响你的决定，但你不知道，所以没考虑进去。以后我们确保别再发生这种情况，先跟我确认。’

Yeah. And, you know, when your authority gets questioned by your boss yeah, that can feel bad. But if your boss comes to you and says, you know what? That was awkward for me because I knew something that should have affected the decision you made, but didn't because you didn't know it. So in the future, let's make sure that doesn't happen again and check-in with me.

对。

Right.

那就不会那么难受了，对吧？对。教训记住了。

Then it doesn't feel that bad, right? Right. Yeah. Lesson learned.

他们掌握的信息比你多。那你还能怎么办？

They had more information than you had. So what are you supposed to do? You know?

是啊。这能帮你理解老板可能掌握而你未必知道的信息类型。弄清楚整个组织的运作方式，以及你在这边做的决定如何影响那边的情况，需要时间。

Yeah. And so that helps you understand the kinds of information your boss might have that you aren't always going to have. And, you know, just figuring out how the world works, and how the decision you make over here affects what's going on over there in the organization can take time.

没错。本期节目就到这里。我是Kelsey Alpeo。我是Amy Bernstein。

Yeah. That's our show. I'm Kelsey Alpeo. I'm Amy Bernstein.

想多了解谈判技巧吗？那就把页面往回翻到2021年5月24日，那里有《战略性谈判的要素》。你会学到帮你获得所需所想的策略。

Wanna learn more about negotiations? Then scroll back through the feed to 05/24/2021, where you'll find the essentials negotiating strategically. You'll learn tactics that'll help you get what you want and need.

同时，《你是怎么谈到加薪的》是《职场女性》通讯里的一个系列，会激励你为自己和下属争取权益。每一期都讲述一位女性采取的行动、克服的障碍以及学到的谈判经验。

Meanwhile, How'd You Get That Raise is a series within the Woman at Work newsletter that'll motivate you to negotiate for yourself and for your direct reports. Each edition is one woman's story about the actions she took, the hurdles she overcame, and the negotiation lessons she learned.

想收到后续系列，请访问hbr.org/newsletters并订阅《职场女性》通讯。它每月发布两次，内容包含实用建议、数据以及像“你是怎么谈到加薪的”这样的故事。而且完全免费。

Receive future editions of the series by going to hbr.org/newsletters and signing up for the Women at Work newsletter. It comes out twice a month. It's a mix of practical advice, facts, and stories like how'd you get that raise. Plus, it's free.

下周，Jen Derry会谈到成为管理者带来的身份转变。

Next week, Jen Derry acknowledges what an identity shift becoming a manager is.

你得调整自己的节奏。成功的衡量标准完全不同了。

You have to pace yourself differently. The success metric looks really different.

她还会给我们建议，教我们如何适应这种变化。

And she gives us advice about how to roll with it.

一天结束时，你可以想：我今天有没有推动事情前进？这就是管理。这就是你引以为傲的地方。

At the end of the day, you can think, did I move something forward today? That's management. So that's what you hang your hat on.

毕马威通过创造价值彰显不同，例如开发战略洞察助力并购成功，或将AI解决方案嵌入企业以保持竞争优势。毕马威，彰显不同。了解更多请访问www.kpmg.us/insights。

KPMG makes the difference by creating value, like developing strategic insights that help drive m and a success or embedding AI solutions into your business to sustain competitive advantage. KPMG, make the difference. Learn more at www.kpmg.us/insights.