聊天机器人已进入法庭

欢迎收听科技新闻简报。

Welcome to Tech News Briefing.

今天是1月9日，星期五。

It's Friday, January 9.

我是《华尔街日报》的帕特里克·科菲。

I'm Patrick Coffey for The Wall Street Journal.

当Meta在2020年于Instagram推出Reels时，它看起来不过是TikTok的仿制品，且并未产生任何收入。

When Meta launched Reels on Instagram in 2020, it seemed like little more than a TikTok copycat, and it didn't generate any revenue.

如今，Reels的收入有望达到可口可乐和耐克的水平，并且还有进一步扩大的计划。

Now it's set to bring in as much as Coca Cola and Nike, and it's got plans to get even bigger.

我们将深入探讨Reels如何成长为一家价值500亿美元的业务，以及它未来的走向。

We're diving into how Reels became a $50,000,000,000 business and where it's heading next.

此外，人工智能在法律界声誉不佳，曾多次出现律师提交包含错误甚至完全虚构内容的法律简报的新闻。

Then, AI has a questionable reputation in the legal world, where there have been headlines about lawyers submitting briefs with errors and even cases that were entirely made up.

但这并不仅仅是律师的问题。

But it's not just lawyers.

越来越多的法官开始使用它。

Increasingly, it's being used by judges.

我们考察这项技术当下的应用，并提出疑问：聊天机器人法官会是下一个吗？

We look at how the tech is being used today and ask, are chatbot judges next?

但首先，Meta首席执行官马克·扎克伯格在最近的财报电话会议上表示，Reels的年收入已突破500亿美元，意味着它在未来12个月内有望实现这一营收规模，并成为比YouTube更大的广告收入来源。

But first, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg said on a recent earnings call that Reels had surpassed a $50,000,000,000 run rate, meaning it's on track to make that amount of revenue in the next twelve months and become a bigger source of ad sales than YouTube.

《华尔街日报》记者梅根·巴布罗夫斯基告诉我们，Meta是如何将一个最初被许多人视为TikTok模仿品的平台，打造成一项稳健的业务的。

Journal reporter Megan Babrowski tells us how Meta created a solid business from a platform that many initially dismissed as a TikTok wannabe.

首先回答一下简明要点：Reels是如何成为如此庞大的业务的？

To start with the t l d r question, how did Reels become such a big business?

这花了一段时间。

It took them a while.

他们花了五年时间才达到这一地步。

It took them five years to reach this point.

我采访了一位Instagram高管，她告诉我，他们不得不从头开始重新配置算法，才能实现这一目标。

I spoke with an Instagram executive, and she told me that they had to reconfigure the algorithm from scratch to make this work.

以前，Instagram 是一个你主要查看朋友、家人和关注的人发布内容的地方。

Instagram used to be a place where you would go to see content from your friends and your family and people you follow pretty much exclusively.

这位 Instagram 高管告诉我，他们必须想办法让 Instagram 变得更像 TikTok。

And this Instagram executive told me that they had to figure out a way to essentially make Instagram more like TikTok.

因此，它会向你展示你未关注的人发布的内容，这需要彻底重新调整算法。

So it shows you content from people who you don't follow, and that required basically a whole reconfiguring of the algorithm.

他们必须找到一种方法，从人们观看的内容中获取信号，而不是来自你关注的人——而这正是 TikTok 做得特别好的地方。

They had to figure out a way to get signals from the content people were watching, but not from the people that you're following, which is what TikTok did really well.

TikTok 推荐的内容基于你观看视频的时间长短。

TikTok, the content they show you is based on how much time you spend watching a video.

Instagram 必须找到一种类似的方法。

Instagram had to figure out a way to do something similar to that.

他们做的另一件事是优先推荐平台上的原创内容。

Another thing they did was prioritize original content on the platform.

根据我们之前的报道，我们也知道他们曾支付创作者在 Reels 上发布内容。

From our previous reporting, we also know that they paid creators to post on Reels.

所以，快进到今天，Reels 终于火了。

So fast forwarding to today, Reels is finally big.

广告销售数据——特别是 Reels 今年预计收入将超过 YouTube——真的让我震惊了。

The ad sales numbers, namely the fact that Reels is expected to bring in more than YouTube this year, really shocked me.

你对此怎么看？

What do you take from that?

是的。

Yeah.

在我看来，这表明 Reels 是这个领域真正的竞争对手，值得认真对待。

To me, this showed that Reels is a real competitor in the space and deserves to be taken seriously.

它不再只是个模仿 TikTok 的产品，Meta 已经把它打造成一个严肃的产品。

It's no longer just this TikTok wannabe and Meta has made this into a serious product.

这也很有趣，因为 Meta 在反垄断诉讼中辩称，他们不是垄断者，因为他们面临来自 YouTube 和 TikTok 的竞争。

It's also interesting because Meta made the argument during their antitrust trial that they're not a monopoly because they face competition from YouTube and TikTok.

虽然 Reels 绝对算不上垄断，但它的增长表明它已经在这个领域成为真正的竞争对手。

And while Reels is by no means a monopoly, its growth shows that it's become a real competitor in this space.

因此，用户行为而非他们关注的人才是真正驱动其信息流的核心理念，这也符合Meta高管亚当·奥塞里提出的新论点，即Meta并非社交网络业务。

So the idea that a user's behavior rather than who they follow is what really drives their feed is also in keeping with Meta's new argument that Adam Osseri has made that it's not social networking business.

而是一家娱乐业务。

It's an entertainment business.

这种观点在公司内部有多普遍？

How pervasive is that thinking internally?

这正是现在Meta高管们常说的论调。

That's kind of the line that meta executives talk now.

有趣的是，我交谈过的那位高管将Reels描述为一种社交观看体验。

It's interesting because the executive that I spoke with pitched Reels as the social viewing experience.

这是一种你可以和朋友一起进行的活动。

So it's something that you do with your friends.

你会和他们一起刷Reels，但它并不像我们过去理解的社交网络那样，通过查看朋友发布的内容来实现社交互动。

You watch Reels with them, but it's not inherently social in the way that we used to think of social networks as in seeing content from your friends online.

他们现在基本上把Instagram的社交体验描述为更像看电视的观看方式。

They sort of are now talking about Instagram as a social experience is more watching things akin to TV.

这就是Meta希望Reels未来发展的方向吗？

Is that where Meta wants Reels to go from here?

是的。

Yeah.

去年，YouTube成为全美观看量最大的视频平台。

So last year, YouTube became the most watched video provider across all TV.

很多人会和朋友一起观看YouTube。

A lot of people watch YouTube together with their friends.

他们觉得Instagram短视频与此类似。

They kind of see Instagram reels as being akin to that.

因此，去年底，他们开始在亚马逊Fire TV上推出Instagram应用，作为一次试点，观察效果如何。

So late last year, they started offering the Instagram app on Amazon Fire TV, sort of as a test to see how this goes.

如果效果良好，他们计划在2026年将Instagram应用推广到更多电视设备上。

If that goes well, they have plans to roll out the Instagram app to more TV devices in 2026.

这是《华尔街日报》记者梅根·巴布罗夫斯基。

That was journal reporter Megan Babrowski.

最近你在刷哪个视频应用？

Which video app are you scrolling through these days?

如果你是Spotify的听众，请在评论区告诉我们。

If you're a listener on Spotify, let us know in the comments.

接下来，法官越来越多地使用人工智能来协助裁决法律纠纷，这项新技术在法庭上是如何发挥作用的。

Coming up, judges are increasingly using AI to help decide legal disputes, How the new tech is working in the courtroom.

广告后继续。

That's after the break.

你可能会认为，法庭会是最后一批受到人工智能渗透的地方。

You might think that the court of law would be one of the last places to experience AI creep.

事实并非如此。

Not so.

最近，我们看到了一些轰动性的丑闻，律师们使用AI生成的法律简报，引用了虚构的案例。

Recently, we've seen headline making scandals about lawyers using AI generated briefs citing fictional cases.

一些法官已禁止律师在法庭上使用AI，或对提交不准确AI信息的律师进行了处罚。

Some judges have banned them from using AI in their courtrooms or sanctioned attorneys for submitting inaccurate AI generated information.

但即便如此，《华尔街日报》记者埃琳·穆尔瓦尼告诉我们，越来越多的法官正在亲自采用这项技术。

But even so, WSJ reporter Erin Mulvaney tells us a growing number of judges are embracing the technology themselves.

那么，埃琳，根据你的报道，法官们目前是如何使用人工智能的呢？

So, Erin, can you give us a sense from your reporting of how judges are currently using AI?

他们显然并没有直接套用，说：‘嘿，’

They definitely aren't quite using it to just plop in and say, hey.

这是个判决。

Here's a decision.

Chat TBT。

Chat TBT.

告诉我该怎么做。

Tell me what to do.

他们似乎相当谨慎，但正在利用它来查阅大量文件，或许整合各种法律条文以及律师提出的各种论点，涉及数十万份文件。

They seem to be being pretty discerning, but they're using it to look at tons of documents, maybe synthesize all the different laws, all the different arguments that lawyers have made, and hundreds of thousands of documents.

也许有少数法官表示，他们正在说：‘嘿。'

Maybe a few have said that they are saying, hey.

基于到目前为止的记录，我在听证会上应该向律师提出哪些问题？

What questions should I ask in this hearing to lawyers based on the record so far?

还有一些小事情可以加快进程。

And just a few things to speed up the process.

他们只是试探性地使用这些产品，或许能让事情变得更高效一些。

They're really just dipping their toe and using some of these products to maybe make things a little more efficient.

所以他们表示，自己只是将AI用于后台或日常性工作，而不是影响他们的判决。

So they say that they're using it for back office or routine work rather than influencing their decisions.

当谈到AI时，这种说法在各个行业中都非常熟悉。

That's a very familiar argument when it comes to AI across industries.

他们说，我们只是在消除那些耗时过多的机械性工作。

You know, they're saying that we're just getting rid of the rote stuff that takes too much time.

但在法院系统中，这种界限似乎非常模糊。

But in the case of the court system, it feels like that could be a very blurry line.

我的意思是，我们如何判断这些工具何时开始以某种方式影响他们的判决？

I mean, how do we say when the tools are starting to influence their decisions in some way?

这是一个非常公正的观点。

That's a really fair point.

也许很多法官根本不愿意考虑使用这些工具，原因之一是他们不希望任何人质疑他们的判决是否受到了机器、某些他们没有仔细分析的过往判决或错误输入的影响，后者甚至更糟糕。

And maybe one reason that a lot of judges would balk at even the idea of using it at all whatsoever because they don't wanna have any kind of question of whether their decision was influenced by a machine or some kind of past decision that they didn't analyze carefully or a mistake being put in is even worse.

但我想这正是法官们现在努力了解这些工具实际工作原理的原因。

But I think that's why judges really are trying now to learn how the tools are actually working.

所以现在还处于早期阶段。

That's why it's early days.

因此，我采访的那些人，很可能是这一领域的先驱者。

So the folks that I interviewed, they are probably the contingent of pioneers in this area.

我认为更普遍的情况是，法官们一直在充当裁判，制止律师们提交和使用ChatGPT来走捷径。

I would say the much more common tact is that judges have been referees against lawyers that are submitting and using ChatGBT to cut corners in some ways.

你说他们才刚开始尝试。

You say that they're really just starting to experiment.

我们是否知道有多少法官在使用这些工具，或者AI在审判或判决中的使用可能变得多么普遍？

Do we have any sense of how many judges are using the tools and or how widespread the use of AI in trials or decisions might become?

LexisNexis 是主要的提供商之一。

So LexisNexis is one of the main providers.

有一些工具具备基本的检索功能，还能整合文件。

There are tools that have some basic research functions and some they can synthesize documents.

这些工具对所有联邦法官开放，但它们并不公开有多少法官实际在使用这些工具的数据。

Those are available to all federal judges, and they don't share publicly the data on how many judges are actually using it.

这些工具在法官办公室对所有人开放。

It's available in chambers to everyone.

至于那些专门为法院和法官设计的其他工具，我确信他们也在逐步尝试使用。

And then these other tools that are specifically designed for courts and judges, I'm sure they're wading into it.

书记员可能也在使用一些基础工具。

Law clerks are probably using basic tools as well.

他们为法官做了大量工作。

They do a lot of work for judges.

目前这还只是些零散的传闻。

It's really anecdotal at this point.

通常，只有当发生一些非常负面的事件时，新闻才会曝光。

Often, the news comes out when something really negative happens.

我假设这种情况比我们意识到的更频繁，但我认为真正大力倡导这一做法的只是一小群倡导者。

I assume it's happening more than we realize, but I do think it's a pretty small group of crusaders who are really big proponents.

根据你的报道，法律界内部似乎对此存在一些紧张情绪，因为一些法官正在为使用这项技术的律师制定标准，有的禁止使用，有的则因提交不准确的AI生成信息而受到制裁。

From your reporting, it seems like there's a bit of tension around this within the legal community because we have judges coming up with standards for lawyers who are using the technology, some banning it and some, you know, being sanctioned for submitting inaccurate AI generated information.

你认为整个系统是如何应对这一问题的？

How do you think the system overall is navigating that?

目前，法官们只是努力确保，只要使用这些工具，最重要的决策中仍有人类参与，并仔细审查相关内容。

Right now, judges just are trying to really make sure that if any of these tools are being used, that there's still a human involved in the most important decisions and going over things carefully.

就连我引用的那位大力支持这一技术的法官也表示，他绝不会完全依赖这些工具。

Even the judge I quoted, who's a a big proponent of it, said, you know, he would never trust anything wholesale with these tools.

法官在裁决关乎人们生活乃至世界重大事项时，扮演着极其重要的角色。

The judges have these really important roles adjudicating over things that really matter to people's lives, you know, matter to the world.

因此，我认为由于这一特殊角色，法官们在采用新技术时可能会比其他行业更加谨慎。

And so I think they are probably gonna be slower to jump ahead than other industries just because of that role.

我采访了一位法官，他说法院里曾因使用传真机而引发大量争议，因为那份文件可能会被人们看到。

I talked to one judge who said that there was a lot of drama about using fax machines in courts because it was possible that that document, people are gonna see it.

这说明这个领域有多保守。

Like, that's how slow this area is.

提出‘人工智能能否取代律师和法官’这样的问题，听起来似乎很疯狂。

It seems pretty wild to ask a question like, could AI replace lawyers and judges?

但说实话，我对于联邦法官竟然以任何方式使用这项技术感到震惊。

But, I mean, I was shocked just by the idea of federal judges using it in any way.

我其实也感到惊讶，因为当我与这些法官交谈时，我认为他们愿意接受采访，是因为目前外界流传的主要故事——即这些法庭中出现的幻觉和错误——正是我们此前一直听到的新闻。

I actually was too because when I was speaking to these judges, think their willingness to talk to me was because kind of the main story out there, hallucinations and mistakes showing up in these courts is the story that we've been hearing up to this point.

我预计，随着技术不断进步，我们将会越来越多地看到故事的另一面。

And I imagine just as technology gets better, we'll be seeing the other side of the story more and more.

这些法官会说，应对未来的答案不是忽视技术，而是更深入了解如何负责任地使用它们。

And the argument these judges would say is the more knowledge you have about how to use them responsibly, that'll be the answer to the future rather than ignoring technology.

以上是《华尔街日报》记者埃琳·莫尔登的采访。

That was WSJ reporter Erin Moldain.

以上就是科技新闻简报的全部内容。

And that's it for tech news briefing.

如果你是在Spotify上收听的听众，请务必参与本集的投票或给我们留言。

If you're a listener on Spotify, be sure to take this episode's poll or leave us a comment.

本期节目由朱莉·张制作。

Today's show was produced by Julie Chang.

我是您的主持人帕特里克·科菲。

I'm your host, Patrick Coffey.

杰西卡·费顿和迈克尔·拉瓦尔为我们创作了主题音乐。

Jessica Fenton and Michael Laval wrote our theme music.

我们的监制是凯蒂·弗格森。

Our supervising producer is Katie Ferguson.

杰西卡·费顿是我们技术主管。

Jessica Fenton is our technical manager.

我们的开发制片人是艾莎·阿尔·穆斯林。

Our development producer is Aisha Al Muslim.

克里斯·齐斯利是副主编，法拉娜·帕特森是《华尔街日报》新闻音频负责人。

Chris Zinsley is the deputy editor, and Falana Patterson is The Wall Street Journal's head of news audio.

我们今天上午稍后会回来播出《T和B科技简报》。

We'll be back later this morning with T and B Tech Minute.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.