尼禄皇帝：古罗马最臭名昭著的统治者

我敢肯定它直接冲进下水道了。

I'm sure it went right down the sink.

好吧。

Okay.

我觉得你错失了机会，因为实际上，帕特恩，玛丽，你本该举办一场盛大的派对。

I think you've been missing out here because because actually, Pattern, what you should have done, Mary, is throw an enormous Yeah.

首先，你的年龄应该比13岁大一些。

Well, first of all, you should have should have been a bit older than 13.

哦。

Oh.

因为尼禄，我认为大多数罗马精英男性通常要到二十多岁才第一次刮胡子。

Because Nero and I think most Roman elite men usually didn't do their first shave till they were into their twenties.

但是

But

所以他们留着浓密的胡子，或者

so they grew big beards or they

我觉得如果你不刮胡子，我的意思是，我不是专家。

I think if you don't shave, it's I mean, I'm I'm not an expert.

我对男性胡须并不了解。

I'm not an expert in male facial hair.

这非常好。

It's very good.

我留着自己的胡子，但你知道，是的。

I'm I'm I'm sporting my own, but, you know Yeah.

但我觉得如果你从不刮胡子，那会比你想象的柔软得多、绒毛更多。

But I think if you never shave, it's a lot kind of softer and downier than than you would imagine.

想象一下。

Imagine.

所以尼禄做了很多年轻贵族罗马人会做的事。

So Nero did what a lot of young, posh Romans did.

他在二十岁出头时就把胡子刮掉了。

Early twenties, he shaved it off.

他随后将所有这些收集起来，放进一个精致的小金盒中，并将这些发屑献给了朱庇特。

He then put it all together, a nice little gold box, and he dedicated the clippings to Jupiter.

对吧？

Right?

所以那是第一个名称。

So that was the first name.

但他并没有就此止步。

But he didn't stop there.

我认为，大多数罗马男性都会止步于类似这样的做法。

Most Roman men, I think, did stop with something like that.

但尼禄没有。

Nero didn't.

他举办了一场极其奢华——或者说，据称极其奢华的所谓青年竞技会，即‘朱维纳利亚’，是一场盛大的公共赛事，其中发生了许多让一些人感到或报道称感到不适的事情。

He had a fantastic or he you know, it was claimed to be fantastically lavish set of so called youth games, juvenalia, full on public games in which lots of things happened that some people felt or reported to feel a bit uncomfortable about.

他显然几乎强迫人们表演、歌唱和进行演出。

He apparently pretty much forced people to act and sing and do performances.

有一个关于一位80岁老妇人的故事，当我步入自己的第八或第九个十年时，我对此更能感同身受——她被强迫跳舞。

There's a story of one 80 year old lady, as approach my eighth or ninth decade, I feel more sympathetic to this, was made to do a dance.

当然，尼禄自己也登台表演，你能看出这里隐含的偏见吗？

Of course, Nero also performed and you can see the bias creeping in here, can't you?

据说他的嗓音并不十分有力。

It was said that he didn't really have a very strong voice.

整个表演都显得有点软弱无力。

It was all a bit weedy.

所有关于他强迫他人表演的故事，情况都是如此。

All the stories about how he forced people to do this, that's what the case is.

那位老妇人被强迫跳舞。

The old lady was made to dance.

这是其中一例，我常常想，也许我们可以反过来讲述这个故事。

It's one of the cases where I often think, Well, maybe you could reverse this story.

你可以用一种更正面的方式来叙述它。

You could tell it in a way that was a lot more favorable.

你可以说，看，有一位80岁的老太太，她兴奋极了，玩得特别开心，于是也站起来跳了舞。

You could say, Look, there was one 80 year old lady, she was so excited and so enjoying herself that she got up and she did a dance too.

是的。

Uh-huh.

对吧？

Right?

完全不同的印象。

Different impression.

当然。

Sure.

对吧？

Right?

我只是太沮丧了，这辈子从来没办过一场体毛派对。

I'm just so depressed I never had a pube party.

我根本没意识到，这竟是我人生中的一个空白。

This is I did not realize that was a that was a void in my life.

你本可以把它献给众神。

You could have dedicated it to the gods.

是的。

Yeah.

我本可以献给这么多人。

I could have dedicated so many people.

你本可以让一位老太太来跳舞。

You could have had a granny come and dance for

我本可以有。

I could've had

好吧。

Okay.

所以与此同时，我们应该谈谈不列颠尼库斯。

So meanwhile, we should talk about Britannicus.

这是克劳狄乌斯的儿子，嗯。

This is the this is the son of Claudius Mhmm.

理论上，谁才是王位的合法继承人？

Who is the rightful heir to the throne, in theory.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但阿格里皮娜和尼禄已经开始有所行动了。

But Agrippina and Nero are starting to just make some moves.

而且

And

你知道，从某种意义上说，一切对尼禄来说都看似完美，因为他是通过母亲继承奥古斯都的血脉。

You know, it all looks great for Nero in a way because he's the descendant of Augustus through his mom.

他是现任皇帝的养子。

He's the adopted son of the reigning emperor.

看起来非常理想。

Looks super.

嗯。

Mhmm.

问题是，现任皇帝已经有了自己的儿子。

The problem is that the reigning emperor's already got his own son.

是的。

Yeah.

不列塔尼库斯。

Britannicus.

他叫不列塔尼库斯，这个名字是为了庆祝克劳狄乌斯征服不列颠。

And he's called Britannicus, called that to celebrate Claudius' conquest of Britain.

是的。

Yeah.

所以特意给儿子取了这个名字。

So names his son specially.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yeah.

现在一切都说得通了。

It's all making sense now.

他的派对规模有多大？

And How big was his pew party?

他得到了什么？

What did he get?

嗯，我

Well, I

我认为这是其中一个关键问题，因为阿格里皮娜确实开始策划让不列塔尼库斯被边缘化。

think that's one of the sort of problems because what story is that Agrippina started to engineer Britannicus being marginalized.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

对吧？

Right?

所以我打赌他的派对并不怎么样。

So I bet he didn't have a great puke party.

他被迫穿着幼稚的衣服，而不是华丽的成年服饰。

And he was made to wear childish clothes rather than posh grown up clothes.

还有一个故事讲到她解雇了他的家庭教师，并换了一位新的。

And there's one story about how she sacks his tutor and replaces the tutor.

他原本有一位他非常依恋的好老师，但她把他赶走了。

So he's got this nice tutor that he's attached to, and she gets rid of him.

明白了。

Okay.

据说他在那之后不久就遭遇了悲惨的结局。

He's also said to have met a nasty end shortly after this.

是那位老师，不是不列塔尼库斯。

The tutor, not Britannicus.

嗯，不列塔尼库斯……

Well, Britannicus

嗯，不列塔尼库斯落得了个悲惨的下场。

Well, Britannicus comes to me an ostic end.

她把他的家教赶走了？

She booted his tutor?

她赶走了。是的。

She booted Yes.

没错。

That's right.

射杀佛陀。

Shoot a Buddha.

这真是一个……是的。

It's it's an Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

好运啊。

Great luck.

先杀了他家教，然后杀他？

His tutor and then shoot him?

但这一切都行得通。

But it all works.

不能射击一个被解雇的导师。

Can't shoot a booted tutor.

一切都没问题，因为啊。

It all works fine because Ah.

克劳狄乌斯确实死了。

Claudius does die.

在一次通过中死去。

Die in a pass

非常被动的表达方式。

very passive phrasing.

是的。

Yeah.

确实死了。

Does die.

我使用这个词时稍微带点委婉的意思。

I was using it slightly slightly euphemistically.

克劳狄乌斯死了，传言说他是吃了有毒的蘑菇被毒死的。

Claudius dies, and the allegations are that he was poisoned by mush poisoned mushrooms.

是的。

Yeah.

他正在吃晚饭，吃着他最爱的蘑菇煎蛋卷之类的食物。

He's at dinner, and he's eating his favorite mushroom omelette or whatever it is.

据说蘑菇本身有毒，但实际上阿格里皮娜在蘑菇上涂了毒药。

The idea is that the mushrooms actually poison mushrooms, although Agrippina had put poison on the mushrooms.

据说医生也参与其中。

And the doctor's in on it, supposedly.

在这个故事里，每个人都知道内情。

In the story, everybody's in on it.

按理说，如果有人吃完东西后看起来有点不舒服，你可能会让他吐出来。

When they try because you'd think that if somebody's looking a bit ill after eating something, you might make them sick.

医生的做法是把一根羽毛插进他的喉咙，让他把东西吐出来。

What the doctor does is put a feather down his throat so he can puke it up.

然后他就能呕吐了，是的。

And can do his vomiting, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

但那是一根有毒的羽毛。

But it's a poisoned feather.

这就是这个故事。

That is the story.

哇。

Wow.

问题是，就像我一位老老师常说的，在古罗马世界，很难区分一场恶毒的中毒事件和一场恶毒的腹膜炎。

The trouble is, as an old teacher of mine always used to say, it's very hard in the Roman world to tell a nasty case of poisoning from a nasty case of peritonitis.

是的。

Yeah.

人会因为各种原因死去。

People die of stuff.

对吧？

Right?

人可能会因为普通的事情死去。

People can die of ordinary things.

他们可能死于普通疾病，但大家总希望他们是被毒死的。

They could die of ordinary things, everybody always wants them to be die of poison.

但当克劳狄乌斯去世时，这是否是让梅罗上位的有利时机？

But so but when Claudius died, was this at a moment that was opportune to move Mero into position?

当然。

Of course.

而且不久之后，不列塔尼库斯也死于中毒。

And also Britannicus, very soon after, also dies of poison.

或者当然，也可能是癫痫。

Or or, of course, might have been epilepsy.

一次癫痫发作。

An epileptic fit.

可能是。

Might have

是癫痫。

been epilepsy.

但那次人们有明确的怀疑理由，因为据说他在晚餐时突然倒下后，葬礼火化堆却早已准备好了。

But people on that occasion had clear grounds for suspicion because it was said, again, it was said, that after he'd keeled over at dinner, they had a quick burial, but the funeral pyre had already been prepared.

这个房间里线索太多了。

There are too many clues in this room.

不列塔尼库斯一除掉，当然，尼禄就成了皇帝。

Once Britannicus is out of the way, of course, you know, Nero is now the emperor.

他是罗马的皇帝，拥有难以置信的权力。

He's the emperor of Rome, which is an incredible amount of power.

他当上皇帝时多大年纪？

How how old is he when he becomes emperor?

16岁。

16.

你看，哦，完美。

There you oh, perfect.

统治帝国的绝佳年龄。

Great age to run an empire.

我是说，你女儿大概16岁吧？

I mean, your daughter's, what, 16?

我可不想让我女儿拿着遥控器

I would not want my daughter having the remote control

在这个年纪

at this point,

更别说一个帝国了

let alone an empire.

说得有道理

Fair enough.

天啊。

God.

少年皇帝通常都干不好，所以母亲往往在幕后掌权。

Teenage emperors, they don't tend to do too well, which is why mom tends to run the show from the backstage.

有一个说法，而且并非毫无根据，那就是幕后掌权的是阿格里皮娜。

Well, one story is, and it's not without some evidence, that the power behind the throne was Agrippina.

舞台妈妈。

Stage mom.

舞台妈妈。

Stage mom.

她确实出现在钱币上，哦。

And she indeed does appear on the coins Oh.

和尼禄一起。

With Nero.

我必须强调，这并不是什么全新的事情。

Now I have to underline that this was not something entirely new.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

与罗马皇室有联系的女性之前也曾出现在钱币上。

Roman women connected with the imperial family had appeared on the coins before.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

但也有传言说尼禄与她有乱伦关系，她试图控制他。

But there were also rumors of incest with Nero, that she was trying to control him.

那么，我们怎么知道呢？

Again, how do we know?

我们其实并不清楚阿格里皮娜和尼禄之间究竟发生了什么，乱伦也不是不可能的。

We don't know what happened between Agrippina and Nero, really, and incest is not impossible.

但这完全符合关于罗马女性的刻板故事：当她们的儿子或丈夫掌握权力时，她们就试图运用典型的、所谓女性的手段来操控一切。

But it absolutely fits the kind of the stereotype stories of Roman women who, when their sons are in position of power or their husbands, they are trying to control things using using rather kind of classic quotes, female wiles.

他就是这么说的。

That is what he said.

这个故事并不仅限于罗马人。

That's not a story which is restricted to the Romans.

是的。

No.

没错。

Right.

我们应该说，尼禄很快就会厌倦了妈妈在幕后操控一切，你知道的，就像他说的那样，是个躲在后台的妈妈，于是开始策划她的死亡。

We should say Nero soon gets tired of mum running the show from behind, you know, back backstage stage mom, as he said, and starts to plot her death.

对。

Yeah.

他开始策划所谓的索尔迪乌斯可能被谋杀了。

He starts to plot the so so Thordius has been murdered, perhaps.

对。

Yeah.

梅塔利库斯可能也被谋杀了。

Metallicus has been murdered, perhaps.

是的。

Yeah.

妈妈现在要被杀了。

Mom is now gonna be murdered.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得什么时候会发生？

Do you think When?

你怎么

How do you

觉得他会着手处理这些事？

think he goes about about them?

现在要记住

Now bear

这是一位曾策划过千人合唱的青春期事件的人。

in mind, this is someone who threw a puberty involving, you know, a thousand people singing choral song.

嗯。

Mhmm.

跟你聊聊，你觉得他会怎么

Talk us through how you think he's gonna

他举办一个毒药派对，邀请所有人唱歌跳舞，然后还出现驴子。

He throws a poison party where he invites everyone to sing and dance, and then there's donkeys.

他真的这么做吗？

And does he do it?

他是举办一个派对或者大型盛会，然后试图杀掉她吗？

It does he throw, like, a party or a big gala and then try to kill her then?

嗯，你离真相不远了。

Well, you're not so far.

你知道的。

You know?

他搞个谋杀狂欢节吗？

Does does he do a murder palooza?

它是什么

What it

这表明编造这些故事有多么容易。

shows is how easy it is to invent these stories.

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

哦。

Oh.

我们所有的三个主要历史来源都明确记载，尼禄试图杀害她，最终确实做到了。

And all our three main historical sources are pretty clear that Nero tries to and eventually does kill her.

苏埃托尼乌斯记载的尝试次数最多。

Suetonius has the most possible attempts.

苏埃托尼乌斯记录说，曾有三次试图毒杀她，但像许多罗马人一样，她每天服用解毒剂，以保护自己免受毒害。

Suetonius records that there were three attempts to poison her, but like many Romans, she took a daily dose of antidote in order to kind of to protect her body against poison.

就像

There's like

有个叫旺达的鱼。

a there's like a there's like a a fish called Wanda.

他一直试图杀她。

He keeps trying to kill her.

不。

No.

但它活下来了。

But it is surviving.

它跑得很快，不是吗？

It's like a fast, isn't it?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

It is.

这简直太荒谬了

It's like a proper silly

所以，下一次尝试会更快。

So so Well, it they the next attempt is even more fast.

祝你好运。

Good luck.

他的计划是让屋顶的瓷砖砸向她睡觉的地方，但是。

The idea is that he he arranged for tiles to crash from the roof where she was sleeping, but

这就像《威利狼与哔哔鸟》的卡通情节。

This is like a Roadrunner cartoon.

是的。

Yeah.

她事先得到了警告。

She had been tipped off.

现在，你看看这两个故事。

Now, you look at both those stories

是的。

Yeah.

你会说，这两者都完全无法验证。

And you say, they are both absolutely untestable.

对吧？

Right?

而且它们荒谬至极。

And they're ludicrous.

这太夸张了。

That's so over the top.

这太做作了。

That's so theatrical.

极致。

Top.

天花板坍塌。

Collapsing ceiling.

是的。

Yeah.

毒药。

Poison.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

她并没有被他们杀死。

And she and she wasn't killed by them.

没有。

No.

他们说，是的。

And they say, oh, yeah.

他试图这么做，但她事先得到了风声。

He tried to do it, but she'd been tipped off.

她一直在服用解毒剂。

She was taking antidotes.

那么最后到底发生了什么，那就是

So so what in the end happens, which is

就是那个有效的。

It's the one that works.

嗯，那个有效的。

Well, the one that works.

失败的那个，最明显的就是船。

The one that fails is is obviously, most notable is the boat.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

对。

Yes.

抱歉。

Sorry.

那是我。

That's me.

有人道歉了。

Somebody is sorry.

但它是那部分有效的。

But it's that half works.

船的那一部分是有效的。

The boat half works.

他让她和莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥一起去坐游轮。

He got her to go on a cruise with Leonardo DiCaprio

嗯，非常。

Well, very

还有冰山里的船。

and the boat in Ice Berg.

你很接近了。

You're very close.

哦。

Oh.

但他和她在意大利海岸边共进了一顿美味的晚餐，你知道的，凭直觉。

But he has a nice dinner with her down the coast of Italy, you know, by eye,

我觉得是这样。

I think.

真浪漫啊。

How romantic.

他还弄了一个可折叠的船。

And he has he has rigged up a collapsible boat.

当她上船后，他就用船送她回家，结果船中途塌了。

And when she's out, he sends her home by boat, and the boat collapses.

不过帕滕，我马上要批评你了，因为我有个悲伤的结局要告诉你。

But I'm gonna tell you off in a minute, Patten, because I've got a sad end to this.

是的。

Yeah.

哦

Oh,

对不起。

I'm sorry.

等一下。

Hang on.

哦，那真是

Oh, that's

太可怕了。

horrible.

她被扔进了水里，却忘了自己会游泳。

She's thrown into the water, but forgotten she could swim.

她可是游泳冠军。

She's a champion swimmer.

对吧？

Right?

她有点

She sort

会游泳。

of swims.

说得通。

Makes sense.

尼禄不记得妈妈会游泳。

Nero didn't remember that mom could swim.

现在我认为非常关键的一点是，这些故事都荒诞不经，而且被各种陈词滥调夸大了。

Now what I think is very well, puts us all in the spot here is that these are ludicrous stories and they are hammed up in tropes.

在原始资料中被过度渲染，变得夸张且难以置信。

Hammed up in the sources so that they're over the top and unbelievable.

我有时试着去读这些故事，告诉自己：你可能会觉得这一切很有趣，但这是尼禄。

I sometimes try to read these and to say, look, there is a temptation to think that this is all very funny, but this is Nero.

这是一个母亲被儿子杀害的故事。

This is a woman being killed by her son.

这是弑母。

This is this is matricide.

这已经成为了关于尼禄传说的一部分，比如你知道尼禄是怎么试图杀死他母亲的吗？

And it's entered the Nero tradition as a kind of, oh, do you know how Nero tried to kill his mom?

故事。

Story.

可折叠船的悲剧在于，阿格里皮娜的一名仆人和她一起上了船，她也跳进了水里。

And there is a terrible little bit of tragedy in the collapsible boat because one of Agrippina's servants is with her and she goes into the water too.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她以为最好的自救方法是大喊：‘我是阿格里皮娜。’

And she thinks the best way to save herself, because she doesn't realize it's a trick, is to say, I'm Agrippina.

救救我。

Save me.

是的。

Yeah.

救救我。

Save me.

我不是皇帝的母亲。

I'm never I'm the emperor's mom.

救救我。

Save me.

救救我。

Save me.

当然，她被杀了。

And, of course, that gets murdered.

船员们过来，把她杀了。

The crew come over, and they kill her.

我听到你们说的每一句话，但我很抱歉。

I hear I hear everything you're saying, but I'm sorry.

一艘可折叠的船加上身份误认，本质上就很搞笑，我很抱歉你们为此发笑。

A collapsible boat and mistaken identity is just inherently funny, and I'm sorry that you're laughing at this.

不。

No.

我不抱歉。

I'm not sorry.

这很有趣。

It's funny.

但这确实太疯狂了。

But it does It's insane.

故事是，他又一次编造说她试图杀他。

The story is, again, that he he invents the idea that she was trying to kill him

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后除掉了她。

And gets rid of her.

所以他可以说，这是正当防卫。

So he can go, oh, it's self defense.

我只是想说，是的。

I'm just trying to Yes.

保护，这是正当防卫。

Protect It's self defense.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

正当防卫。

Self defense.

所以她，是的。

And so she yeah.

她被你懂的，刺了，而且

She is stabbed by you know, and and

据说他随后看着她的尸体，同时喝着一杯葡萄酒。

And it is said that he then goes and looks at her body while drinking a glass of wine.

这是一种精神病态的行为。

Which is a psychopathic thing to do.

这不好笑。

That's not funny.

那是珍娜。

That's Jenna.

很黑暗，对吧？

Dark, isn't it?

是的，那就是。

That's Yeah.

偶尔，我觉得我们应该记住妈妈，不。

Just occasionally, I think we ought to I I like to remember mom No.

并且想起她曾经是

And think that she was

百分之百。

A 100%.

不是她被谋杀了。

Not she was murdered.

是的。

Yeah.

她可能谋杀了克劳狄乌斯·不列颠尼库斯。

She had murdered perhaps Claudius Britannica.

所以，也许她并没有

So, Maybe you she wasn't

无辜。

innocent.

这里没有无辜可言。

There's no innocence here.

没错。

No.

这是一个功能失调的家庭。

This is a dysfunctional family.

是的。

Yes.

非常。

Very.

而且其中没有人是无辜的。

And nobody in it is innocent.

好吧。

Alright.

那我们继续吧。

Let's move on then.

关于尼禄，有趣的是他并不是一位伟大的战士。

So the the interesting thing about Nero is he's not the great warrior.

尤利乌斯·凯撒才是那位伟大的战士。

Julius Caesar was the great warrior.

他才是那个骑在马上驰骋战场的人。

He was the man on horseback running around sun.

征服者。

The conqueror.

征服者。

Conqueror.

征服者。

The conqueror.

克劳狄乌斯入侵了不列颠并击败了他们，你知道的。

Claudius had invaded Britain and defeated Britain, you know.

所以我们有征服者模型。

And so so we have conqueror models.

是的。

Yeah.

但尼禄是个戏剧男孩。

But Nero is the theater kid.

他是那个爱唱音乐剧的人。

He's he's he's the show tunes guy.

必须跳舞。

Gotta dance.

我认为，这里是现代读者和评论家有些不一致的地方。

This is another place, I think, where where kind of modern readers and critics are a bit inconsistent.

因为一方面，我们说，罗马人去了，屠杀了所有人。

Because on the one hand, we say, oh, Romans, they went and they massacred everybody.

看看尤利乌斯·凯撒。

Look at Julius Caesar.

他是个种族灭绝的狂魔。

He's a genocidal maniac.

但当我们发现一位真正热爱文化的罗马皇帝时，却又开始嘲笑他们，是的。

And then we find a Roman emperor who actually likes culture, and we start to laugh at them a bit Yeah.

并说，他其实有点懦弱，只是一个爱演戏的孩子。

And to say, well, he was a bit weedy, really, and he was just a theater kid.

你知道的？

You know?

所以我们不能两头都想要。

And so we can't have it both ways.

哦，我觉得我们可以。

Oh, I think we can.

让我们谈谈他做了什么。

Let's talk about what he does.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Okay.

他出演戏剧。

He performs in plays.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这里确实有些有趣的事情要出现了。

There there really are some funny things coming up here.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

这是一个伟大的文化时代。

It's a great age of culture.

这是一场巨大的文学复兴。

It is a huge literary renaissance.

是的。

Yeah.

尼禄在其中的角色还不太清楚，但确实存在。

Not quite clear what Nero's role in that is, but it certainly is.

而且他自己在尝试他的胡须比赛时，

And that he himself, as he tried at his at his beard games,

他自己，你应该有胡须比赛。

he himself You should have beard games.

我们应该继续。

We should be Go on.

这里的营销在哪里，玛丽？

Where's the marketing here, Mary?

是的

Yeah.

他的名字就写在上面。

He he Your name is right right on it.

是的

Yeah.

砰。

Boom.

这是你的。

You own it.

是的

Yeah.

不。

No.

他亲自表演，据说其实并没有他希望别人说的那么精彩。

So he himself performs, and it is said that it perhaps wasn't as brilliant as he liked to be told it was.

还有很多令人惊叹的故事。

And there are amazing stories.

这就像弗洛伦斯·福斯特·詹金斯，对吧？

It's like Florence Foster Jenkins, isn't it?

有点像是那种那种

It's sort of sort

租下剧院然后

of like hiring hiring out the theater and getting

让所有朋友都来观看。

all your friends to come.

是的。

Yeah.

但尼禄确实走得更远一些，你知道的。

And but Nero does go, you know, a stage further.

所以他把剧院的门锁上，据说一旦你进去了，就别想轻易出来。

And so he locks the theater doors so that once you've got in, so it is said.

为了能出去，人们常常假装死亡，好被人抬出去。

And that in order to get out, people used to fake their death so they could be carried out.

我在我的演出中也这么做。

I do that at my shows.

人们总是假装晕倒。

People constantly pretend to faint.

我把门锁上了。

I locked the doors.

来吧。

Come on.

表演者不会这么做。

Performer doesn't do that.

观众们，我向你们保证。

Captain audience, I promise.

是的

Yeah.

还有女性

And women

露出惊讶的表情，哇。

get with the expression, wow.

你杀了他。

You killed him.

你杀了他。

You killed him.

那就是来自

Is that where

哪里吗？

that comes from?

天啊，你是怎么做到的？

Like, man, how how'd you do?

你杀了他。

You killed him.

我杀了他。

I killed him.

女性生孩子，是的。

Women gave birth Yeah.

因为她们一旦进去就出不来了，孩子就来了。

Because they they couldn't get out once they got in and the baby came.

是的。

Yeah.

她们被迫讨好他。

And they were forced to flatter him.

所以她们不得不说，天啊，尼禄太棒了。

It's so they were they were forced to say, blimey, brilliant Nero.

现在，是的。

Now Yeah.

奉承这件事既荒谬又令人不快，但我认为，或许我们该停下来想一想：当我们看到威廉王子或特朗普总统等人表演后，我们会这么说吗？

There is something pretty ludicrous and pretty unpleasant about flattery, but I Gayn, I think it's a place where we need perhaps to stop and say, well, would we say to Prince William or President Trump or someone like that after seeing them perform?

我觉得那场表演真的很差劲。

I think that was a really lousy show.

我们可能会说

We'd probably say

我个人无法想象唐纳德·特朗普去演《哈姆雷特》，但我不确定。

I can't imagine Donald Trump doing Hamlet, personally, but I don't know.

也许吧。

Maybe.

他确实

He is

不过是个出色的舞者。

an amazing dancer, though.

那瓶酒

That that wine

滑冰舞者

skating dancer

太棒了。

is fantastic.

真是太出色了。

It's just brilliant.

不。

No.

但我认为

But I I think

这是诗意。

It's poetry.

这是诗意。

It's poetry.

我说了。

I'll say it.

这是一种诗意。

It's poetry.

因此，我们往往注意不到自己的奉承，却很容易察觉别人对我们的奉承。

So we tend not to notice our own flattery and to notice the flattery when it's done by others.

这很合理。

That's fair enough.

公平地说，尼禄据说在戏剧《俄瑞斯忒斯》中饰演主角，而这个角色杀死了自己的母亲。

In fairness to Nero, supposedly, he he stars he plays starring roles in the play Orestes, in which the character murders his mother.

他还出演了《俄狄浦斯》，剧中角色有乱伦关系。

He plays in Oedipus, in which the character has incestuous relationships.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他还扮演赫拉克勒斯。

And he plays Hercules.

当然，他还扮演女性角色，也就是跨性别角色。

And also, of course, in in he plays women roles, so he plays sort of drag roles.

而且还有一部叫《卡纳西》的剧，我想，是关于分娩的，同样涉及

And also, there's a play called Canassie, I think, in childbirth, which again

卡纳西。

Canassie.

是的。

Yeah.

同样是乱伦。

Again, incest.

所以，如果他是个试图说‘我和我妈妈没有乱伦关系’的人，

So if he's a guy who's, like, trying to sort of say, I didn't have incestuous relations with my mom Yeah.

那再出演这么多关于乱伦的剧，就太明显了。

It's quite on the nose to then perform in numerous plays about it.

哇。

Wow.

明目张胆地隐藏。

Hiding in plain sight.

也许吧。

Maybe.

你敢指出我试试。

I dare you to call me out.

也许吧。

Maybe.

或者饭后闲聊时说，你知道吗？

Or after dinner gossip, saying, do you know what?

罗勒接下来要演的角色。

Role Nero's going to play next.

嗯。

Mhmm.

俄瑞斯忒斯。

Orestes.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

你知道的？

You know?

也许吧。

Maybe.

也许吧。

Maybe.

这正是八卦与明目张胆地隐藏之间的界限所在。

And it's it's where the boundary is between the gossip and the hiding in plain sight

是的。

Yeah.

这非常吸引人。

That's very hot

对我们来说。

to us.

帕顿，这里重要的是，尼禄带着它进行了巡演。

The important thing here, Patton, is that Nero took it on tour.

他不仅仅在罗马演奏过。

He didn't just play Rome.

就是这样。

There you go.

他不仅仅在卡内基音乐厅演奏过。

He didn't just play Carnegie Hall.

他带着它进行了巡演。

He took it on tour.

你知道他去过哪些地方巡演吗？

Do you know where he toured?

我的意思是，他是否巡演过所有他们征服的土地，或者他会在哪里巡演呢？

I mean, did he tour through every land that they conquered, conquered, or or where where where where would would he he tour?

巡演？

Tour?

他去了罗马皇帝所能到达的最具文化气息的地方，那个充满文化与哲学的土地。

He went to the most cultured place that a Roman emperor could go to, the land of culture, the land of philosophy.

希腊。

Greece.

他确实去了。

He did.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yeah.

他把这部作品带到了希腊巡演。

He took it on tour to Greece.

他四处巡演，而且

And he went around And

他们是怎么想的？

what did they think?

他参加了所有主要的赛事，包括奥林匹克运动会、地峡运动会以及其他所有赛事。

Well, he went around all the major games, the Olympic games, the Isthmian games, all the others.

他就像是音乐节上的副舞台。

He was like a side stage at a music festival.

不。

No.

主舞台。

Main stage.

他是主舞台。

He was main stage.

主舞台。

Main stage.

哇。

Wow.

他改变了奥林匹克运动会的所有项目，把他喜欢的都改了。

He changed all the events in the Olympics, the things that he liked.

他赢得了所有比赛。

And he won everything.

哇。

Wow.

所以他是一个非常优秀的运动员，是吧？

That so he was a really good athlete is

你就是这个意思。

what you're saying.

据说，即使他从战车上摔下来，没有完成赛程，他依然赢得了比赛。

Well He is reported even to have won when he kind of fell out of his chariot and didn't finish the course.

是的。

Yeah.

关于他参加战车赛的故事是，他有一辆由十匹马拉动的战车。

The story of his chariot race is that he has a 10 horse team chariot.

所以他有一辆由十匹马拉动的战车，这远远超过了战车应有的马匹数量。

So he's got a chariot pulled by 10 horses, which is way too many chariot.

这就是为什么马太多的原因。

That's why it's way too many horses.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

有这么多匹马，你肯定会出事故。

You're gonna crash with that many horses.

没错。

Right.

但没人对他说：‘陛下，这主意太糟糕了。’

But no one said to him, that's a bad idea, Sire.

你知道，根本没人站出来说：‘44匹马？这没问题。’

You know, there's no there's no health and safety officer saying, 44 horses is fine.

所以他撞车了，但他们还是宣布他获胜。

So he crashes in that, but they declare him the winner.

是的

Yeah.

他带着所有那些奖杯回家了。

He comes home with all his his gullen prizes.

他在罗马举行了盛大的凯旋仪式。

He has a big triumph back in Rome.

大多数皇帝都试图为杀人而举行凯旋仪式。

Most emperors try to have a triumph for killing people.

对吧？

Right?

尤利乌斯·凯撒的事。

The Julius Caesar thing.

对吧？

Right?

尤利乌斯·凯撒的事。

The Julius Caesar thing.