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本周历史，195年2月。
History this week, February '5.
铁路场的一个宁静早晨，直到地面突然塌陷。
A quiet morning at the rail yard until the ground gives way.
一整台机车被完全吞没。
An entire locomotive is swallowed whole.
这对一项雄心勃勃的穿越哈德逊河的隧道工程来说，又是一次挫折。
It is another setback for an audacious project to tunnel under the Hudson River.
而今天，一百一十五年后的今天，这些隧道正成为一场随时可能爆发的国家危机。
And today, one hundred and fifteen years later, these tunnels are a national emergency waiting to happen.
收听本周来自历史频道的历史故事，无论你在何处收听播客。
Listen to history this week from the History Channel, wherever you get your podcasts.
你好，欢迎收听《你已死亡》。
Hello, and welcome to You're Dead
《对我而言》，这是英国广播公司第四台的喜剧播客，以严肃的态度对待历史。
to Me, the radio four comedy podcast that takes history seriously.
我叫格雷格·詹纳。
My name's Greg Jenner.
我是一名公共历史学家、作家和广播主持人。
I'm a public historian, author, and broadcaster.
今天，我们将拿起数学课本，穿越回公元四世纪的埃及，深入了解数学家与哲学家亚历山大的希帕提娅。
And today, we are grabbing our math textbooks and frolicking back to the fourth century to Egypt to learn all about mathematician and philosopher, Hypatia of Alexandria.
为了帮助我们，我们在历史角落请来了一位出色的老师和一位卓越的学生。
And to help us, we have one terrific teacher and one sublime student in History Corner.
她是杜伦大学的古典学教授。
She's professor of classics at Durham University.
你可能在娜塔莉·海恩斯的《古典学站起来》或英国广播公司第四台的《伟大人生》节目中听过她。
You might have heard her on Natalie Haynes' Stands Up for the Classics or Great Lives on BBC Radio four.
也许你读过她的许多著作，包括《亚里士多德之道：古代智慧如何改变你的生活》和《直面复仇三女神》。
Maybe you've read one of her many books, including Aristotle's Way, How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life and Facing Down the Furies.
你可能在我们关于毕达哥拉斯、三角形 guy 和亚里士多德的节目中听过她。
And you'll know her from our episodes on Pythagoras, The Triangle Guy, and Aristotle.
她是爱丁堡大学的伊迪丝·霍尔教授。
It's professor Edith Hall.
欢迎回来，伊迪丝。
Welcome back, Edith.
你好。
Hello.
我很高兴能来到这里。
I'm thrilled to be here.
很高兴你再次回来。
Delighted to have you back.
在喜剧角，她是喜剧演员、作家和演员。
And in comedy corner, she's comedian, writer, and actor.
你可能在《模拟星期》、《QI》、《弗兰基·布赖恩的新世界秩序》、《深夜 Mash》中见过她，或者听过她共同主持 BBC 的幽默科技播客《人类时代》。
You'll have seen her on Mock the Week, QI, Frankie Boyle's New World Order, Late Night Mash, or you've heard her co hosting the BBC's funny technology podcast, Human Era.
也许你看过她获得奖项提名的单口喜剧专场《奥尔加·科赫：出身富贵》。
Maybe you've seen her award nominated stand up show, Olga Koch, Come From Money.
你肯定还记得她在我们关于伊凡雷帝和 Vital Electricity 这两期节目中的表现。
And you'll definitely remember her from our episodes on Ivan the Terrible and Vital Electricity.
她就是奥尔加·科赫。
It's Olga Koch.
欢迎回来，奥尔加。
Welcome back, Olga.
非常感谢你们邀请我。
Thank you so much having me.
很高兴你来到这里。
Delighted to have you here.
奥尔加，之前在节目中你曾说，你的历史知识基本上就只有美国历任总统，仅此而已。
Olga, previously on the show, you said that your history knowledge is basically all the American presidents, and that's it.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，即使那样也是撒谎，我觉得可能有一半左右是接近的。
I I mean, if and the thing is, even that was lying, I think maybe half of them are close.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
我本来想问你，第十二任美国总统是谁？
I was gonna ask you, who's the twelfth American president?
第十二任？
Oh, Twelfth?
天啊。
Oh, god.
别管了。
Never mind.
约翰·亚当斯就在其中某个地方。
John Adams is somewhere in there.
他相当早。
He's quite early.
说实话。
Let's be honest.
有一件事
One thing
他比第四任还早吗？
is he earlier than fourth?
是的。
Yeah.
他是第二任吗？
Is he second?
是的。
Yeah.
天哪。
Oh, boy.
这太糟了。
This is bad.
这太糟了。
This is bad.
关掉它。
Shut it down.
好的。
Okay.
你目前正在攻读博士学位。
You are doing a PhD right now.
是的。
Yes.
关键的是，不是在历史领域。
Crucially, not in history.
我希望你的听众知道。
I would like your listeners to know.
但你是STEM领域的女性。
But you're a woman in STEM.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yes.
我为此感到非常自豪。
So Proudly so.
很好。
Good.
那你有没有
So have you
听说过亚历山大的希帕提亚？
heard of Hypatia of Alexandria?
如果我坦诚地说，我直到三十秒前才知道她是一位数学家。
If I'm being completely honest, I only found out that she was a mathematician, but I wanna say thirty seconds ago.
这将会是一个非常、非常有趣的节目。
This is gonna be a very, very fun episode.
至少对我来说是这样。
If anything, just for me.
那你了解多少呢？
So what do you know?
好吧，这引出了播客的第一个环节，也就是‘那你了解多少？’
Well, that brings us to the first segment of the podcast, which is the So What Do You Know?
在这个环节中，我会试着猜猜你们——我们可爱的听众——对今天的话题了解多少。
This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener, might know about today's subjects.
你可能从开场白中已经了解到，就像奥尔加刚刚发现的那样，希帕提娅是一位哲学家和数学家。
You might know from the introduction, like Olga has just discovered, that Hypatia was a philosopher and mathematician.
近年来，由于2009年由蕾切尔·薇兹主演的电影《阿莱克桑德拉》的上映，她的名气更大了。
She's a bigger name in recent years, thanks to the 2009 film Agora, starring Rachel Weiss.
但你可能也从1987年《神秘博士》的一集中听说过希帕提娅，她在剧中是被绑架来建造超级大脑的几位天才之一。
But you may also know Hypatia from a 1987 episode of Doctor Who, where she's one of several geniuses kidnapped to build a super brain.
我没看过那一集。
I did not see that episode.
我从来没看过任何一集《神秘博士》。
I've not seen any episodes of Doctor Who.
但事实是
But what's the truth It's
这完全不像你的风格。
really not on brand for you at all.
我知道。
I know.
我身上确实有《神秘博士》的气质。
I give off real Doctor Who energy.
我从来没看过。
I've never seen it.
但好莱坞版的希帕提娅背后真相是什么？
But what's the truth behind the dramatic Hollywood Hypatia?
她到底有多聪明？
How much of a genius was she really?
圆锥曲线到底是什么东西？
And what on earth is a conic section?
我们来了解一下。
Let's find out.
好的。
Right.
埃迪丝教授，当我们做毕达哥拉斯那一集时，发现关于他的任何记载都不可信。
Professor Edith, when we did our Pythagoras episode, it turned out we couldn't trust anything written about him by anyone.
挺有趣的，但没什么太大帮助。
A lot of fun, but not hugely helpful.
关于亚历山大的希帕提娅，我们的历史依据更可靠吗？
Are we on firmer historical ground with Hypatia of Alexandria?
是的。
We are.
我们对她的历史记载稍微可靠一些，但你刚才立刻做了限定。
We're on slightly firmer historical You immediately caveated.
是的。
Yeah.
历史依据稍微可靠一些，因为我们有两份与她同时代的资料，还有一两份稍晚一些的记载。
Slightly firmer historical ground, because we've got two sources that are approximately contemporary with her, as well as one or two that are quite a lot later.
所以我们确实有一些来自昔兰尼的塞内西乌斯的信件，他是她的学生或追随者之一。
So, we've actually got some letters by a guy called Cyenesius of Cyrene, who was some kind of student or acolyte of her.
昔兰尼位于利比亚。
Cyrene is in Libya.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以我们谈论的是北非希腊知识群体的流散。
So this is We're talking about the North African Greek intellectual diaspora.
他似乎极其崇拜她，想把自己的作品和思想寄给她。
He seems to have absolutely adored her, wanted to send her his work and his ideas.
她似乎并没有回复太多。
She doesn't seem to have answered very much.
后来某时就不再与他联系了。
And some point stopped contacting him.
但他对她的尊重非常能说明问题。
But the respect he holds her in is is very indicative.
还有另一个人，叫苏格拉底，被赋予了一个滑稽的绰号‘学究’，只是为了把他和那位苏格拉底区分开来。
And there's another one, a guy called Socrates, who's given this silly surname, Scholasticus, just just to distinguish him from the Socrates.
我本来想说，不是那位著名的苏格拉底。
I was gonna say, not the famous one.
而学者苏格拉底实际上生活在君士坦丁堡，他写了一整章关于她的内容。
And Socrates, the scholar, was actually in Constantinople, and he wrote a whole chapter about her.
所以我们确实有一些事实。
So we do have some facts.
不幸的是，其中一两个事实似乎是完全错误的。
Unfortunately, one or two of those facts seems to be completely wrong.
但我们现在已经有了更坚实的基础。
But we are on much further ground.
她确实存在过，而我们甚至都不能完全确定毕达哥拉斯是否真的存在。
She really existed, whereas we're not even absolutely sure Pythagoras did.
进步。
Progress.
是的。
Yeah.
就她而言，从古代文献来看，实际上只有两种观点。
There are really only, in her case, two ways of looking at it from the ancient sources.
支持和反对。
For and and against.
而关于毕达哥拉斯，我们发现了许多不同的说法。
Whereas with Pythagoras, we've found many different modalities.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
一点点。
Just a bit.
好的。
Okay.
所以，凯西乌斯来自昔兰尼，这名字真特别。
So Cynesius of Cyrene, what a name.
他有点像粉丝。
He's a bit of a fanboy.
奥尔加，你是回复高手专家。
Olga, you are an expert in reply guys.
哇。
Wow.
这转折真意外。
What a swerve.
我喜欢这个。
I like that.
你在这里讨论的是确凿的历史事实吗？
Are you on firm historical territory here?
这是那些回帖者心理的体现吗？
This is this is the psychology of people who write back?
我想是的。
I guess so.
这非常有趣。
It's very it's very interesting.
所以，我的硕士论文是关于回帖男的，这是一个统称，指那些在互联网上不断回复那些不把自己当回事的女性的人，以一种非常随意、像哥们儿一样的方式回应，嗯。
So basically, my master's was about reply guys, which are a catch all slang term for men who, I guess, incessantly respond to women who don't act like they exist on the Internet in a sort of very casual and very, I guess, like, buddy fashion Mhmm.
这太过于熟络了。
That's overly familiar.
这个家伙实际上重新定义了这种现象。
This guy kind of, I mean, recontextualizes it.
这并不是一种现代现象。
It's not a modern phenomenon.
这已经存在很久了。
It's been around.
我只是一位即将退休的古希腊语教授，确实有很多非常奇怪的男性给我写信，哦。
I'm just a very elderly professor of Greek at retirement age, and I actually have quite a lot of very strange men writing to me Oh.
他们认为我有足够的时间去回复他们那些通常完全疯狂的理论。
Who who think that I have enough time to answer their usually completely insane theories.
天哪。
Oh my god.
关于古代世界。
About the ancient world.
比如，他们发现了亚特兰蒂斯的位置。
Like, they've found out where Atlantis is.
哦，
Oh,
好。
good.
或者他们设计了特洛伊木马，然后意识到它实际上不可能——你知道我的意思吧？
Or they've designed the wooden horse of Troy and realized that it couldn't actually You know what I mean?
天哪。
Oh my god.
我完全明白你的意思
I know exactly what I
他们希望我从智力上认真对待他们。
They want me to take them intellectually seriously.
这简直是一种非常有趣的性癖好。
It's very interesting sort of sexual kink.
哦。
Oh
天哪。
my god.
这个天哪。
This oh my god.
我们可以聊上几个小时。
Could talk about this for hours.
这太不可思议了。
That's incredible.
很好。
Good.
我们有了一个良好的开端。
We're off to a good start.
因为男人喜欢向女人讲解历史，但你是一位历史学教授，所以
Because men love explaining history to women, but you're a professor of history, so
对他们来说一定很困惑。
it must be so confusing for them.
我们还有哪些关于希帕提娅的其他资料？
What other sources do we have for Hypatia?
我们有她的粉丝艾涅阿斯的信件，而且我们
We have the the letters of sort of her fanboy, Aeneas, and we
我们还有学者索克拉底写的这部传记。
have this biography by Socrates, the scholar.
还有一个人叫达马斯基乌斯，他写了一本关于另一位新柏拉图主义者的生平，其中提到一些关于亚历山大城文化的内容，那是她成长的地方。
There's another guy called Damascus who wrote A Life of Another Neoplatotist, in which she has some interesting stuff, really more about the culture of Alexandria, where she she grew up.
我们还有令人极其反感的尼科乌的约翰，他是七世纪的科普特主教。
And we've got the amazingly horrible John of Nicuyu, who is a seventh century Coptic bishop.
科普特语是埃及更……
Coptic is the language of the more,
我们不妨说，比较原始的，我认为是
shall we say, primitive, I think it's
实际上这是一个专业术语，指埃及的早期基督教。
actually a technical term, primitive Christianity in Egypt.
他写了一部世界史，就像你一样，向所有人 Mansplaining 历史。
And he wrote a world history, like you do, mansplaining history for everybody.
他关于希帕提娅的段落非常重要，因为它反映了像他这样的人对她的看法。
And his paragraph on Hypatia is very important because it reflects what people like him thought of her.
说她是诱惑者，一名高级性工作者，用魅力迷惑众人，哇哦。
That is that she is seductress, a high class sex worker who beguiles people Woah.
用巫术。
With witchcraft.
所以我们有了一个反映当时人们叫喊内容的文本。
So we get we we've got a text that reflects what people were shouting
解一个二次方程，然后突然间，
in solve one quadratic equation and all of a sudden,
所以，奥尔加，关于希帕提娅的生平，我们并没有太多资料。
So Olga, we haven't got tons on the life of Hypatia.
如果你未来的传记是基于你发送或别人发送给你的私信，再加上一个在土耳其的陌生人写的文字，你会有什么感受？
How would you feel if your future biography was compiled from DMs that you'd sent or people had sent to you and some random guy in in Turkey?
这正是我想要的去世方式。
That's exactly how I'd wanna go.
是的。
Yeah.
我想要，是的。
I wanna yeah.
只留下一个幻想。
Just leave a fantasy.
是的。
Yes.
她数学这么好，让人心动。
She was so good at math, it made people hard.
这就是我想要的。
That's what I want.
之前的一季我们做过一期关于埃及亚历山大城的节目。
Previously done an episode in the previous series about the city of Alexandria in Egypt.
为了让奥尔加了解，伊迪丝，你能简要介绍一下公元四世纪末亚历山大城——这个卓越的学习之都的生活状况吗？
For Olga's benefit, Edith, can you give us a quick rundown of life in late fourth century Alexandria, this this amazing city of of learning?
这座城市拥有著名的亚历山大图书馆，以及多座其他图书馆和博物馆。
It is a city which has had the very famous library and several other libraries and museums attached to it.
这是一座大学城。
It's a university city.
它仍然是整个希腊罗马世界最伟大的大学，但其民族构成多元，并且在这一点上有着悠久的自由主义传统。
It's still the greatest university in the whole of the Greco Roman world, but it's multi ethnic to an degree, and has had a history of huge liberalism about that.
因此，这里有着庞大的犹太人群体，他们总体上得到了很好的对待。
So you've got a massive Jewish population who are very well treated, for the most part.
我的意思是，当然有时并非如此，但他们生活在这里，他们的作品从希伯来语翻译成了希腊语；但与此同时，由于历史的特定时期，新的基督教皇帝颁布了第一批严厉的法令。
I mean, of course, not sometimes when they weren't, but they lived there, they have had their works translated into Greek, from Hebrew, but you've also, because of the particular point in history, in the April, the first really harsh edicts from the new Christian emperors were coming out.
因此，三月颁布了狄奥多西法令，要求关闭所有异教神庙。
So, March is the edict of Theodosius, that all pagan temples have to be shut down.
对。
Right.
所以她出生在三月到公元370年之间，正好在她成年之际。
So, she comes into the world, she's born between March and '3 seventy AD CE, the exact point as she's reaching adulthood Yeah.
此时，作为一名古老的异教哲学家正变得越来越危险。
Where being an old pagan philosopher is beginning to become a very dangerous thing to be.
所以基督教兴起。
So we have the rise of Christianity.
我们显然有一个庞大的犹太群体。
We've got, obviously, a large Jewish Yes.
那里有一个传统的社群。
Sort of traditional sort of community there.
但她是一个异教徒，这意味着她崇拜多个神。
But she's a pagan, which means she worships multiple gods.
是的。
Yes.
我认为她并没有崇拜多个神，因为她实际上是一位新柏拉图主义的异教徒。
I don't think she did worship multiple gods because she's actually a neo Platonist pagan.
那么发生了什么
So what happened to
她来
her Come
继续。
on.
显然。
Obviously.
这非常重要。
It's very important.
让我们难堪。
Embarrassing us.
我知道。
I know.
对不起。
Sorry.
所以，尽管表面上人们接受异教的众神体系，但我认为她并没有真正信仰或向诸神祈祷，因为她信奉的是新柏拉图主义的宇宙观：我们所见的物质世界——我们的身体、环境、自然以及一切由物质构成的事物——都是永恒理念世界这一统一体的次等复制品。
So while there's a sort of notional acceptance of the pagan pantheon, I don't think she had any kind of real faith or prayer life to gods, because she believes in this Neo Platonist model of the universe, which is physical world that we can see around us, everything, our bodies, the environment, nature, anything made out of matter, is a second rate copy of the eternal oneness of the world of ideas.
所以我的瑜伽老师，对吧。
So My yoga teacher Right.
很多人都是这样。
A lot of people do.
这基本上是柏拉图的模型。
This was basically Plato's model.
它有所调整。
It's tweaked.
有一个神，但这个神是统一的。
There is a God, but the God is oneness.
对吧？
Right?
这个崇高的理念世界存在于我们的头脑中。
This sublime world of ideas in our heads.
所以我认为她绝对不会举行任何公开仪式。
So I don't think she would have absolutely done some public rituals.
她可能会出席一些体面的活动，就像人们去教堂一样，即使他们并不相信宗教，或者去犹太会堂却没有真正的祈祷生活。
She'll have appeared at respectable events, just as people go to church, even if they don't believe in religion, or they go to the synagogue without actually having a prayer life, as it were.
但她对与这种理念中的神圣他界建立联系有着深刻的灵性体验。
But she's deeply spiritual in terms of feeling in touch with this divine other world of ideas.
而这实际上与从事数学研究是契合的。
And that actually fits with doing mathematics.
因为数学关乎那些恒久有效的抽象法则。
Because math is about these abstract laws that always hold.
是的。
Yeah.
有点像‘是的’。
It's sort of Yeah.
这正是我想问的问题。
That's the question I would have.
如果当时亚历山大城的人想学习数学，他们会受到多少宗教影响？
If a person in Alexandria at the time wanted to study math, how religiously informed would it be?
还是说他们完全保持独立、互不干涉？
Or would they just be completely discreet and separate?
到这个时候，它们已经非常分离了。
It would really be very separate by this time.
我们在各个领域都取得了巨大进展，不仅仅是算术，还有几何以及各种其他分支。
We had made huge advances in all kinds of areas, not just arithmetic, but in geometry, and and all kinds of other branches of it.
而这与她另一个极大的兴趣——天文学——紧密相关。
And that was very tied in with her other great interest, which is astronomy.
是的。
Yeah.
我们稍后会谈到这一点。
And we'll we'll get to that.
所以让我们简要谈谈她的童年。
So let's talk about her her childhood very briefly.
你说她出生在三月，三月。
You said she's born somewhere in March, March.
我的意思是，当我们谈论这个时期时，它属于晚期古典时代。
I mean, when we talk about this is like late antiquity.
这是古代世界。
This is the ancient world.
但她生活在柏拉图之后将近八百年。
But she's like nearly eight hundred years after Plato.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，没错。
Well, yeah.
对她来说，这已经是古代历史了。
It's ancient history to her.
好的。
Okay.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我常谈的一个话题，是的。
One of my hobby horses Yeah.
关于人们对所谓的古典世界的误解，广义上讲，就是它持续了一千年。
About people's misunderstandings of the classical world, so called, in broad senses, is that it lasted for a millennium.
荷马的诗歌大约创作于公元前800年。
So you've got Homer, his poems are 800 BC.
事实上，他所描述的英雄生活在公元前1300年，但没错。
In fact, the heroes he's talking about were 1,300 BC, but yeah.
那是早期的青铜时代晚期。
For the first Late Bronze Age.
他是公元前八世纪到七世纪的人物，而我个人，当被问及古典世界何时结束时，会明确说是三月。
He's eighth century to seventh century BCE, and I, personally, when asked when do I put an end to the classical world, precisely say March.
那就是狄奥多西的敕令，标志着公共异教崇拜仍被允许，到基督教全面禁止的转折点。
It is that edict of Theodosius, where things tipped from being public pagan worship, still being okay, to the Christian closure.
但其他学者会把时间定得更晚，他们会说，实际上，这类哲学思想又延续了两百年、三百年，直到阿拉伯征服为止。
But other scholars will put it much later, they'll say, Well, actually, all this sort of philosophy was going on for another two hundred years, three hundred years, till the Arab conquest.
她其实正处于这一切正在消亡和崩溃的尾声，可怜的女人。
She's actually just on the tail end, as it's all going and crumbling, poor woman.
但人们仍然信奉新柏拉图主义，这种实践又持续了两个世纪。
But people were still Neo Platonists practicing so for another two centuries afterwards.
奥尔加，你觉得在古代世界，像希帕提娅这样的年轻女性是如何进入数学领域的呢？
Olga, how do you think a young woman like Hypatia got into maths in the ancient world?
嗯，她是异教徒，所以我猜她最初是通过数神灵来开始的。
Well, she was a pagan, so I guess she started out by counting the gods.
从一数到十二。
One to 12.
你有什么想法？
What's your inkling?
你觉得在那个历史时期，一个年轻女性是如何进入数学领域的？
How do you think a young woman gets into math at that point in history?
天哪。
Oh my god.
她让一个男人来给她解释。
She lets a man explain it to her.
这是学校课程的一部分吗？
Was it part of, like, a curriculum in school?
她实际教授的内容是大学课程的一部分。
It what what she taught actually was part of the her university curriculum.
不是。
No.
她是个富二代。
She's a nepo baby.
当然了。
Of course.
我的意思是，我本来没想提她爸爸，但我们心里都这么想。
I mean, I wasn't gonna her dad, but we were all thinking.
她爸爸叫塞翁，塞翁，意思是神圣的。
And her dad is called Theon, Theon, which just means godly.
他是图书馆和博物馆数学系的负责人。
And he is kind of head of the maths department at the at the at the library and museum.
我的意思是，他是亚历山大里亚的数学教授。
I mean, he is the professor of maths in Alexandria.
没有提到任何儿子。
No son is mentioned.
我们对家族中的其他成员一无所知。
We know nothing about any other member of the family.
没有提到母亲。
No mother is mentioned.
没有提到姐妹。
No sister is mentioned.
如果他只有一个孩子，而且是个女孩，那可能性非常高。
It's highly likely if he only had one kid and it was a girl.
在古代有好几个这样的例子，男性们礼貌地忽略了根本没有Y染色体这一事实，实际上把女儿当作学徒来培养。
There are several instances of this in antiquity, where men politely forgot that there was no Y chromosome and actually trained up the daughter as an apprentice.
我的意思是，这种事在整个历史上都一直存在。
I mean, that's gone on throughout history.
我们实际上知道有四位女性活跃在公元四世纪。
We actually know of four other women who around in the fourth century.
其中一位就在亚历山大。
One actually in Alexandria.
四位
Four
完整的女性。
whole women.
四位完整的女性。
Four whole women.
数一数。
Count them.
这已经很多了。
That's a lot.
我们有四位女性的明确记录。
We have confirmation of four women.
有一位名叫潘德罗西翁的女数学家，她非常出色，这个名字很美。
There was a mathematician, a good one, called Pandrosion, which is a beautiful name.
它的意思是像晨露一样湿润。
It actually means, all moist like the morning dew.
我们还有一位在帕加马的学者，那里拥有第二大图书馆，位于土耳其西海岸。
Then we've got one over at Pergamon, which is the second biggest library, which is on the West Coast Of Turkey.
我们还有一位在雅典的新人新柏拉图主义者。
We've got somebody else in Athens who's another Neoplatonist.
所以她并不是孤身一人。
So she isn't alone.
但希帕提娅几乎被她的父亲当作儿子来对待。
But Hypatia is is effectively treated as a sort of as as a son almost by her dad.
我相信是这样。
I believe so.
她的父亲名叫塞翁。
And and he's called Theon.
希帕提娅是什么意思？
What does Hypatia mean?
你只给了我们他的名字。
You've given us his name.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，希帕提娅这个发音其实是维多利亚时代的读法。
Well, Hypatia is such a weird that's a Victorian pronunciation.
对。
Yeah.
正想说这个。
Was gonna say this.
哦。
Oh.
希帕提娅。
Hypatia.
意思是最高、至高无上的。
It means the very high highest up.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这个
The
巅峰，卓越的顶点。
summit, the pinnacle of excellence.
哇。
Wow.
就是最顶端。
Just the very topmost.
没什么压力。
No pressure.
压力。
Pressure.
你知道的，就是最顶端。
You know, the topmost.
它源自希腊语，意思是提升。
It's just from the Greek word, which means elevation.
这太棒了。
That's amazing.
我非常喜欢这个说法。
I like that a lot.
Olga是什么意思？
What does Olga mean?
我不想谈这个。
I don't wanna talk about it.
不。
No.
它其实是oligarch的缩写。
It's actually short for oligarch.
澄清一下，这是个玩笑。
To be clear, that's a joke.
好的。
Okay.
她以最高的山峰命名。
She's named the highest summit.
这对她寄予了很高的期望。
That expects big things of her.
对吧？
Right?
当然。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yeah.
但另一方面，从天文学的角度来看，这个名字也很合适。
But it's also, you know, in terms of being into astronomy, it's kind of you know, it's an appropriate name.
是的。
Yeah.
就像仰望天空一样。
It's like looking upwards.
进行了命名上的辨识。
Nominative discernment is made.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，我们看到希帕提娅接过了她父亲的教学工作。
So we have I have Hypatia sort of taking on her dad's school job.
也就是说，他是老师。
Like, he's, you know, he's the teacher.
他是亚历山大图书馆的数学教授。
He's the math professor at the library of Alexandria.
她接过了这个角色，你知道，课程内容是什么？
She takes the role on you know, what is on the syllabus?
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
她所教的课程会包含哪些内容？
What would be on the course that she's teaching?
哦，会有新柏拉图主义哲学。
Oh, there would be Neoplatonist philosophy.
哲学。
Philosophy.
当然。
Sure.
那么，我们该如何理解物质世界？
So how do we think about the material world?
我们该如何理解‘一’、‘统一’？
How do we think about the one, the unity?
这实际上会通过亚里士多德逻辑的一种版本引入。
That will have been introduced actually by a version of Aristotle's logic.
所以，这并不是单纯的，可以说是一种综合，其中还带有一些斯多葛主义的成分。
So it's not, you know, it's kind of a synthesis, there's a bit of stoicism stoicism in there.
对。
Right.
因为从理智和心理上实现与太一的合一，实际上需要一种温和的苦修方式。
Because the way to achieve union with the one intellectually and psychologically is actually by a mild form of asceticism.
你知道，你必须在身体上过一种非常自律的生活。
You know, you've got to live quite a disciplined life physically.
你不能放纵自己。
You cannot do self indulgence.
没有奢侈品。
No luxuries.
是的。
Yes.
所以它带有一点修道院的意味，但其实完全不是宗教性的。
So it's got a monastic kind of hint, but it's not actually in any way religious.
一切都关乎自我和自律。
It's all about the self and self discipline.
那么就会有数学，会是欧几里得数学，会是光学，还会天文学。
Then there would have been maths, would have been Euclidean maths, would have been optics, and there would have been astronomy.
所以基本上，所有可以应用质量的领域。
So basically, all the fields in which you can apply mass.
是的。
Yeah.
所以光学就是光。
So optics would be light.
对吧？
Right?
光的传播、反射等等。
How light moves and bounces off things and so on.
那就是视觉。
Well, vision.
当然，视觉。
And vision, of course.
是的。
Yeah.
欧几里得，我是说，欧几里得是一位伟大的数学家。
And Euclidean I mean, Euclidean's a great mathematician.
对。
Yes.
他就是那个关键人物。
And he's like the guy.
对。
Yes.
三角学、几何学，我的意思是，这些词都来自希腊语，因为它们在古代就被使用了。
And trigonometry, geometry, I mean, all these are Greek words because they were being practiced in antiquity.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，听起来挺忙的。
I mean, sounds busy.
她没有时间回复粉丝来信。
She didn't have time to respond to fan mail.
他们没有做统计，因为那是
They didn't do they didn't do statistics because that's
一个拉丁语单词。
a Latin word.
哦。
Oh.
是的。
Yeah.
这就是罗马人的风格，不是吗？
Well, that's Romans for you, isn't it?
罗马人，他们喜欢数据。
The Romans, they love data.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
亚历山大里亚没有电子表格。
No spreadsheets in Alexandria.
确认了。
Confirmed.
好的。
Okay.
所以希帕提娅？你是怎么发音的？
So Hypatia or how did you pronounce it?
听起来你好像有点……我不知道。
That sounds slightly like you're sort of I don't know.
感觉你好像有点磕磕绊绊的。
It feels slightly like you're tripping over.
这简直就像你从楼梯上摔下来一样。
It's almost like you're of falling down a staircase.
它非常漂亮，绿油油的。
It's very it's very pretty and green.
太美了。
It's beautiful.
好的。
Okay.
所以她是一位新柏拉图主义者。
So she's a Neoplatonist.
所以我们有三个现实层次：灵魂、理智和神性，而那个神性可能也没那么神圣。
So we've got the three levels of reality, the soul intelligence and the divine one that might not be that divine.
而真实的存在并不真实。
And Actual reality isn't real.
什么？
What?
是的。
Yeah.
所以物质现实是不真实的。
So material reality is not real.
好的。
Okay.
灵魂、智力和太一的三个层次。
The three levels of soul, intelligence, and the one.
是的。
Yeah.
它是太一的拙劣仿制品。
It's a poor facsimile of the one.
对。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
来
Come
开启。
on.
这是现实的复印件。
It's a photocopy of reality.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
行。
Fine.
我很抱歉。
I'm so sorry.
我们生活在矩阵中吗？
Are we living in the matrix?
你是在说这个吗？
Is that what you're saying?
我是尼奥吗？
Am I neo?
你是尼奥吗？
Are you neo?
这里谁是尼奥？
Who's neo here?
好吧。
Alright.
所以希帕提娅主要教男性吗？
So Hypatia is mostly teaching men?
是的。
Yes.
她的课堂上有女性吗？
Are there any women in her class?
我怀疑没有。
I doubt it.
我无法确定
I cannot tell
这一点我可以肯定。
you that for a fact.
但通常我们的资料显示，作为教学主要场所的博物馆（即大图书馆）并不招收女性。
But usually, our source is saying that the museum, which is the big library where the teaching goes on, did not admit women.
所以她似乎非常特别。
So she seems to be quite exceptional.
我确信，如果她真的结了婚，就不会被允许进入。
And I'm sure if she'd actually got married, she wouldn't have been allowed in.
你知道，我觉得她这种人，像是一个与性无关的处女，就像一位异教的女祭司。
You know, I think it's this sort of, she's sort of a virgin who doesn't have anything to do with sex, so she's like a pagan high priestess.
哦，那她一生都保持这样吗？
Oh, and she stays that way throughout her entire life?
据我们所知，是的。
As far as we know, yeah.
天哪。
Oh my God.
哇。
Wow.
所以，她是处女，同时也是运动员。
So, she 's a virgin and an athlete.
老套了。
Cliche confirmed.
真苛刻。
Harsh.
抱歉。
Sorry.
对不起，是运动员。
Sorry, an athlete.
奥尔加，你想象一下，如果她面对的是一群期待向男性学习的男性学生，而她却是一位女教师，这种师生关系会是怎样的？
Olga, how do you imagine the student teacher relationship going if she's got a class of men who are expecting to learn from men, and here's this woman teaching them?
说实话，各位，我真的不知道。
Honestly, guys, I I I don't know.
我觉得首先，那味道肯定很难闻。
I I feel like first of all, it would stink.
明白吗？
Okay?
我们就先这么说吧。
Let's just throw that there.
一群年轻男孩挤在一个房间里，不通风，那地方臭得要命。
A bunch of young boys in one room, unventilated, that place stunk.
我能告诉你们的是这一点。
I can tell you this much.
明白吗？
Alright?
而且，据我所知，那时候除臭剂还没发明出来。
Also, deodorant hadn't been invented from from from what I can be there.
北非。
North Africa.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以我觉得会有很多管教工作。
So I think I think it would be a lot of disciplining.
我打赌他们都会被她吸引。
And I bet they would all keep falling for her.
她是大学里唯一的女性。
She would be the only woman in the in the university.
所以他们会想，好吧，那就只能是你了。
So they'd be like, I guess you're the one.
根本没有其他女生。
There's no other chicks.
叮叮叮。
Ding ding ding.
我觉得我
I think I
我觉得这是真的。
think it's It's true.
嗯，有一个故事，我敢肯定它是杜撰的。
Well, there is a a story which I'm absolutely sure is apocryphal.
但那个学生太痴情了，一直纠缠她，想让她答应和他约会。
But that one student who was so lovelorn that he kept harassing her to try to get her to go out with him.
据说她朝他扔了一个浸透的卫生巾。
And it's said that she threw a soaking sanitary pad at him.
排队。
Queue.
然后说，你爱的就是这个。
And said, that's what you're in love with.
比如，我的身体。
Like, my physical body.
天啊。
Oh my god.
我太喜欢了。
I love that.
你应该追求的，是真正纯粹的爱。
What you should be after is the true love of of of one.
完美的美的形式。
Ideal form of of of beauty.
美，不是这种物质的复制品。
Beauty, Not not this this material material copy.
复制品。
Copy.
如果他根本不喜欢被人扔卫生巾，她可能更能证明自己的观点。
She probably would have proved her point better if he didn't absolutely love getting a pad thrown at him.
我可以向你保证。
I can guarantee you that.
这个没问题。
This okay.
这让我想起一件事。
This reminds me.
我未婚夫当时迷恋中学的历史老师，以至于当老师结婚并改了姓氏后，他仍坚持在全班同学面前用她的原姓称呼她。
My fiance was so in love with this history teacher in middle school that when she got married married and and changed changed her her name, name, he he he insisted on still using her maiden name in front of the entire class.
哇。
Wow.
青少年真是疯狂。
Teenage boys are crazy.
老师好撩人。
Hot for teacher.
这是一种强大的信息素组合，对吧？
It's a it's a powerful pheromone combination, isn't it?
当然。
Absolutely.
这太不可思议了。
This is incredible
行为。
behavior.
行为。
Behavior.
这真是不可思议的行为。
It It is is incredible incredible behavior.
行为。
Behavior.
所以她有个学生爱上了她。
So she's got a student who's in love with her.
她把一片卫生巾扔到了他头上。
She chucks a sanitary towel at his head.
人力资源部肯定找她谈过了，因为这种事是不能做的。
HR surely had words there because you can't do that.
但这是个挺有意思的回应。
But that's an interesting sort of comeback.
我打赌。
I bet
其他所有男生都想知道：我能要一个吗？
all the other boys were like, can I have one?
我跟你说真的。
I'm telling you.
她有不少粉丝，她的学生似乎真的很钦佩她。
She's got her fans and her students sort of seem to really admire her.
确实如此。
They do.
我们还没听说她结婚的事。
We haven't got her getting married.
她全身心投入到工作中。
So she commits herself to her work.
是的。
Yes.
这是她一生的事业。
That's her life's work.
对。
Yes.
这很有趣。
Which is is interesting.
所以我们现在正在探讨数学职业的发展。
So we now are kind of moving through mathematics career.
她为数学做出了什么贡献？
What does she contribute to mathematics?
你知道，她父亲曾是这所学校的杰出教师。
You know, her father had been the great teacher at the school.
她是否增添了新的知识？
Does she add new knowledge?
她是否像好莱坞希望的那样是一位伟大的数学家？
Is she as great a mathematician as perhaps Hollywood would like
她可能是吗？
her to be?
可能没那么有原创性。
Probably not that original.
她是一位擅长阐释复杂数学思想的专家。
She was an expert expounder of complicated mathematical ideas.
她写了大量的注释性著作。
She wrote big commentary books.
那是注释欧几里得《几何原本》、一位撰写人人研读的算术专著的学者、几乎肯定还包括托勒密的《天文学大成》，以及阿基米德——这位最伟大的机械学家——的时代，
This was the great age of commentaries on Euclid's elements, on a guy called who wrote the treatise on arithmetic that everybody did, probably on Ptolemy's Almagest, almost certainly on Archimedes, who was one of the greatest mechanical Okay,
听起来她像是个复述者。
sounds like she was a reply girl.
是的。
Yeah.
但她自己的贡献似乎仍然是对他人成果的发展。
But her own contribution seems to have been development, again of somebody else.
一个叫阿波罗尼奥斯的人写过一本关于圆锥曲线的书。
A guy called Apollonius had written a book on conic sections.
我的
My
最爱。
favorite.
似乎确实推进了如何测量圆锥或圆锥存在的方法。
Does seem to have advanced how you measure cones, or how cones exist.
某种与通过切割环绕表面来测量有关的手段，通过某种相交方式。
Something to do with cutting through the curving surface that goes round to measure it by doing some sort of intersection.
这并不完全清楚。
It's not completely clear.
我自己用冰淇淋蛋筒试过这个。
I have tried this with an ice cream cone myself.
是的。
Yeah.
有时候，这些注释中的发展确实让原始作品显得更加相关。
You can Well, sometimes it's important that it's these developments in these commentaries actually make the original work more relevant.
完全正确。
Like Totally.
没人真的关心莎士比亚是谁，直到《10 Things I Hate About You》上映。
Nobody really cared who Shakespeare was, and then 10 Things I Hate About You came out.
然后人们才渐渐开始理解了。
And then people sort of sort of started getting it.
所以我认为我们不应该低估她的贡献。
So I don't think we should have underestimated her contribution.
没错。
No.
她确实被认为对冰淇淋蛋筒提出了完全原创的观点。
She was genuinely held to have said something completely original about cones.
好的。
Okay.
她还被期待成为这一领域极具魅力且卓越的传播者。
She was also set to just be a really charismatic, brilliant communicator of this stuff.
是的。
Yeah.
所以她是一位出色的老师。
So she's an amazing teacher.
没错。
Yes.
对吧？
Right?
你知道，她的学生都很喜欢她。
You know, her students love her.
能够用非常简单的方式表达极其复杂的思想，这是一份巨大的天赋。
And that is an enormous gift, to be able to express very complicated ideas in in in very simple ways.
我们得聊聊她的天文学事业。
We need to talk about her astrology career.
抱歉。
Sorry.
天文学事业。
Astronomy career.
她不在抖音上。
She's not on TikTok.
她不是那种搞占星的女生。
She's not she's not a she's not a kind of astrology girly.
她是搞天文学的女生。
She's an astronomy girly.
她全身心投入于星星、行星以及如何测量苍穹。
She's all about the stars and planets and and how to measure the heavens.
我们对这项工作了解多少？
What do we know of this work?
知之甚少。
Very little.
太好了。
Great.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
我的意思是，
I mean,
她评论托勒密这一事实是最重要的证据。
the fact that she comments on Ptolemy is the most important evidence.
我的意思是，如果不掌握大量知识，你是无法读懂托勒密的《天文学大成》的。
I mean, you cannot read Ptolemy's Almagest without knowing an awful lot of stuff.
有些人说她发明了星盘。
Some people have said she invented the astrolabe.
我们现在知道这并不正确，但她可能以某种方式改进过它，
Now we know that's not true, but she could have somehow refined it,
什么？
The what?
抱歉？
Sorry?
星盘。
The astrolabe.
它是类似星盘的模型。
It's the model of Like astrolabe.
是的。
Yeah.
不是星盘仪，如果你在想那个的话。
Not astrolabia, if that's what you're thinking.
我根本没想那个，但我知道你想说什么
I wasn't thinking about it, but I know what you were
这是一个球形的教学工具，帮助你理解星座是如何运行的，好吧。
thinking It's spherical teaching aid to help you understand how the constellations move around the Alright.
太棒了。
Cool.
行星。
The planet.
它非常、非常先进。
It's very, very advanced.
嗯。
Mhmm.
安提凯希拉装置被制造出来时，有些人仍然认为地球是平的，你知道吗，他们能得出这个结论真是非常了不起。
The Antigrades were given that people some people still think the Earth is flat, you know, it it it it's really quite remarkable that they figured out no.
好的。
Okay.
但他们有一个，呃，他们有一个直立的，抱歉。
But they had an they they had an upright sorry.
我在想什么？
What what am I thinking of?
天哪。
Oh my god.
我在讲个笑话，但忘了三个关键词，没法讲下去了。
I'm doing a joke, but I forgot three words that I need to do this joke.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
那时候没有光污染。
There wasn't a light pollution.
他们甚至能在城市里看到星星。
They could actually see the stars in the city.
所以这其实不太公平。
So it's not really fair.
这其实不太公平。
It's not really fair.
我们不能这么做。
We can't do that.
这是真的。
That's true.
我们看不到星星。
We don't see the stars.
如果我们能看到星星，我们也会非常聪明。
If we could see the stars, we would also be very smart.
是的。
Yes.
但她几乎肯定在教学中使用过。
But she almost certainly used one for teaching.
对。
Yeah.
而且她很可能对此进行了改进，尽管我们现在知道她实际上并没有发明它。
And she may well have refined it, even though we do now know that it's not true that she actually invented it.
但这只是你所说的这位女老板用星盘教学的一个非常美好的画面。
But it's just a very beautiful image of this girl boss, as you put it, teaching with her her her astrolabe.
是的。
Yeah.
而且而且
And and
她的
her
她会希望
would like
一个星盘。
an astrolabe.
法恩博伊、索内西乌斯在他生命末尾给她写了一封信，说：你能帮我一下星盘吗？
Fanboy, Sonessius, he sent her a letter at the end of his life saying, could you help me with an astrolabe?
我想要一个星盘。
I'd like an astrolabe.
求求你了，亲爱的，你能帮我弄一个吗？
Please please Could you source me one, darling?
好的。
Yeah.
她正在对更早的作家进行评注。
She's doing commentaries on other earlier writers.
没错。
Yep.
也许她做过一些原创研究，或者改进过仪器，比如星盘。
Maybe some original research, maybe refining instruments, like an astrolabe.
她可能写过哲学著作，但都没有保存下来？
She may have written philosophy, but none of it survives?
是的。
Yes.
一些学者认为，我们目前只保留了古典时代所写文献的大约5%。
Some scholars say that we've got about 5% of all of basically what was written in classical antiquity.
我怀疑还不到那个数。
Suspect it's less than that.
我觉得可能接近1%到2%。
I think it's probably near one or 2%.
因为抄写纸莎草纸、羊皮纸和手稿的过程，必须在拜占庭的修道院里每隔一个世纪就重新抄写一遍，否则这些文献根本无法保存到十五世纪得以印刷。
Because the process of copying out papyrus and then vellum and manuscripts and all the rest of it had to be copied out and copied out every century in these monasteries of Byzantium, or it wouldn't have survived through to the fifteenth century to get into print.
嗯，你可能会希望那5%是最优秀的部分。
Well, you'd hope that it was the best 5%.
对吧？
Right?
因为现在我在想，假如幸存下来的5%全是我的所有短信，而他们必须从我面前这些‘稍等’之类的短信中推断出我的脱口秀才华，那会怎样？
Because now I'm thinking about what if the 5% that's survives me is, like, all the text messages I've ever sent, and they have to extrapolate my stand up genius from the sort of BRB text messages in front of me.
这确实是个非常有趣的问题。
It is a really interesting question.
如果只有你一生作品的5%能被保存下来，会怎样？
If only 5% of your sort of life's work could be saved.
只是邮件。
Just emails.
你能想象吗？
Can you imagine?
求求了，别只留下邮件。
Please, not just the email.
当我退出推特时，我下载了我的推特归档，因为我有点着迷于——这很重要。
I when I quit Twitter, I downloaded my Twitter archive because I was slightly obsessed with, like, this is important.
这是我的毕生之作。
This is my life's work.
是的。
Yeah.
了
Of
当然。
course.
我发了四十万条推文。
I'd sent 400,000 tweets.
我看过这些内容。
I'd looked at it.
其中大约20%是关于托特纳姆热刺足球俱乐部的。
It's about 20% number about Tottenham Hotspur football club.
我真是个无聊透顶的人。
Unbelievably boring man I am.
我真是太蠢了。
I'm so dumb.
想象一下，在这20%中，如果只有5%是关于他留下的全部内容的话。
And imagine if of that 20%, only the 5% is everything that remains of
他。
him.
我会在历史上因讨厌热刺而闻名。
I will be renowned through history as a guy who hated Spurs.
我
I
我认为，我们谈论的是两千年后——也就是我们和希帕提娅之间相隔的一千七百年，可能会有一个外星人对二十一世纪足球现象着迷到极致。
think two thousand years time, which is what we're talking, you know, seventeen hundred years time, the gap between us and Hypatia, there could be an alien who was absolutely obsessed with the phenomenon of twenty first century soccer.
他们会非常高兴关于
And they would be very pleased about
然后出现了这位足球学者。
And then there was this soccer scholar.
你是西尼人。
You're the Sinesis.
下雨了。
Was raining.
终于。
At last.
我渴望已久的可信度。
Credibility I've craved for so long.
本周历史。
History This Week.
五月二月。
February '5.
铁路场的一个平静早晨，直到地面塌陷。
A quiet morning at the rail yard until the ground gives way.
一整台机车被完全吞没。
An entire locomotive is swallowed whole.
这是挖掘哈德逊河下方隧道这一雄心勃勃项目遭遇的又一挫折。
It is another setback for an audacious project to tunnel under the Hudson River.
而今天，距此已过去一百一十五年，这些隧道正成为一场迫在眉睫的国家危机。
And today, one hundred and fifteen years later, these tunnels are a national emergency waiting to happen.
收听来自历史频道的《本周历史》，在您收听播客的任何平台。
Listen to History This Week from the History Channel, wherever you get your podcasts.
在现代世界中，希帕提娅广为人知，以至于有许多事物以她的名字命名。
In the modern world, Hypatia is quite well renowned, so much so that several things have been named after her.
来，奥尔加，给你个小测验。
So a mini quiz for you, Olga.
以下哪一项不是以亚历山大的希帕提娅命名的？
Which of these things is not named in honor of Hypatia of Alexandria?
我们有月球上的一个环形山、一个修道会、一个蝴蝶属（即一种蝴蝶物种）、一种字体，还有一个小行星带。
So we have a crater on the moon, an order of monks, a genus of butterfly, so a type of butterfly species, a font, or an asteroid belt.
这五项中，哪一项不是以希帕提娅命名的？
Which of those five is not named after Hypatia?
是字体吗？最后一个是什么？
Font or what's the last thing?
小行星带。
Asteroid belt.
我猜是字体。
I'm gonna throw a font in.
不对。
No.
我差点用Hypatia字体写这个脚本，因为我觉得这简直是个没人能懂的笑话，
I almost wrote this script in Hypatia font because I was so it's a joke no one would understand and
你一看就明白这有多合理。
you would see makes so this much sense.
不对。
Nope.
确实有Hypatia字体。
There is a Hypatia font.
哦。
Oh.
有一个叫Hypatia的小行星带。
There's a Hypatia asteroid belt.
有一种叫Hypatia的蝴蝶。
There's a Hypatia butterfly.
月球上有一个叫Hypatia的环形山。
There's a Hypatia crater on the moon.
所以没有僧侣以她命名。
So there's no monks named after her.
但有一本小说是关于她的，讲的是一位僧侣去拜访她，我想是在
But there is a novel about her about a monk visiting her, I think, in the
那是十九世纪查尔斯·金斯利写的那本。
That's nineteenth the Charles Kingsley one.
那就是你提到的那本。
That was the one you mentioned.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以她现在正获得应有的赞誉。
So she's getting her retrospective acclaim now.
哦，
Oh,
是的。
yes.
你知道，我们现在很高兴承认希帕提娅是古代世界最杰出的头脑之一。
You know, we are now happy to acknowledge Hypatia is one of sort of the big brains of the ancient world.
嗯，她是STEM领域第一位女性。
Well, she's the first woman in STEM.
瞧，就是这样。
Well, there you go.
那确实是‘是的’。
That was Yeah.
在亚历山大城，当时有人认可她卓越的智慧吗？
And across Alexandria, was her big brain recognized at the time?
你知道，我觉得我们有理由相信她显然担任着重要的职务。
You know, I think we've got the sense that she obviously had an important job.
她是那种大家遇到数学问题都会去找的人吗？
Was she the kind of the go to maths person?
她绝对是任何数学或天文学问题的首选咨询对象。
She certainly was the person you would go to with any kind of mathematical or astronomical query.
没错。
Right.
但我们真正了解这一点，却是因为她引发的敌意，这很奇怪。
We'd really know that though from the amount of antipathy she generated, strangely.
她被基督徒如此憎恨。
She was so hated by the Christians.
讨厌我的人反而激励了我。
Haters are my motivators.
她被如此憎恨
She was so hated
被基督徒如此憎恨，这恰恰说明他们认为她拥有相当大的权威和影响力，没错。
by the Christians that that implies that they they felt she had very considerable authority and influence over Right.
相当大一部分人口。
A large portion of the population.
所以我们可以通过这种规模来衡量她的影响力。
So we can measure her influence by the sort of scale.
敌意。
The antipathy.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
这很有趣。
That's interesting.
这是一种很好的影响力指标，不是吗？
It's quite a good metric for influence, isn't it?
通过看看你有多讨厌她来衡量。
To sort of to see how much you hate it.
我觉得是这样。
I think so.
意识到你做出了多少贡献。
To realize how much you're contributing.
想想泰勒·斯威夫特就是围绕这一点建立了整个事业。
Think Taylor Swift built a whole career around it.
所以是的。
So yeah.
我觉得有道理。
Makes sense to me.
这太有趣了。
That's fascinating.
好吧。
Okay.
所以她的声誉显然在某些社群中备受崇敬和尊重，而在其他地方可能开始招致一些憎恨者。
So her her reputation clearly, you know, she's revered and respected in in certain communities and perhaps starting to acquire her haters in others.
希帕提娅在亚历山大城的女性生活中是罕见的例外吗？
Was Hypatia a rare exception in Alexandria in terms of the lives of women?
所以我知道，显然在当时的科学领域，她作为女性是极为罕见的。
So I know, obviously, she's rare in in terms of women in science at this point.
但在亚历山大，女性拥有更多的权利吗？
But did women have more rights in Alexandria?
她们有
Did they have
她们确实享有一些权利，比如，如果她不结婚，她可能有权继承财产并将其作为自己的财产保留。
more They did have some rights, and I think she would have been able to inherit property and keep it as her own, for example, if didn't marry.
这种经济独立显然对于能够按自己的意愿行事至关重要。
That sort of economic independence is absolutely crucial, obviously, to being able to operate as you want.
女性也可以离婚，是吗？
And women could divorce as well, they?
是的，她们可以离婚。
Yes, they could get divorced.
因为在古雅典，女性几乎没有任何权利。
Because ancient Athens, women had almost no rights at all.
在古希腊，女性的整体地位被过度夸大了。
The position of women general in ancient Greece, the oppression has been exaggerated.
对。
Right.
也就是说，古典时期的雅典根本不是典型情况。
In that, a, classical Athens was not typical at all.
在那里，女性受到的压迫远比在其他几乎所有城邦中都要严重。
Women were far more oppressed there than they were in almost all other city states.
其次，如果你仅通过法律、经济和选举权来评估一个文明，那你根本无法了解人们的日常生活。
The second is that if you only assess a civilization by the legal, economic, and suffrage rights, then you no idea about everyday lives.
女性在古代宗教中有着极其美好的地位。
Women had such a fantastic time in ancient religion.
她们崇拜众多女神。
They had all these goddesses.
她们到处都是高级女祭司。
They were the high priestesses everywhere.
我们刚刚任命了首位女性坎特伯雷大主教。
We've only just appointed our first ever archbishop, woman archbishop of Canterbury.
与一神论的宗教相比，你有这么多不同的女神可以崇拜。
Compared with monotheistic theistic religions, you had all these different goddesses to go to.
这是一个极其同性社交的社会，也就是说，你会在热闹的纯女性节庆中与各个年龄段的女性一起聚会。
Incredibly homosocial society, that is, you hung out with other women of all ages at riotous women only festivals.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
我的意思是，你去过修道院吗？
I mean, have you ever visited a convent?
那地方太棒了。
That stuff is lit.
你有阿佛洛狄忒。
You have Aphrodite.
你去
You go
如果你想变得有性吸引力，就去阿佛洛狄忒的神庙。
to Aphrodite's temple if you want to get to be sexually attractive.
如果你想维护社会地位，就去赫拉那里。
Go to Hera if you're looking after your social status.
你需要去阿尔忒弥斯的神庙来了解生物学。
You go to Temple Of Artemis for your biology.
如果你是手艺人，或者从事任何编织相关的工作，就去雅典娜那里。
You go to Athena if you're a craftswoman or involved in any kind of weaving or anything like that.
你有得墨忒耳和珀耳塞福涅，这至关重要。我从小在严格的圣公会家庭长大，那里性别歧视根深蒂固，女孩因为声音‘不纯净’而被禁止在唱诗班唱歌。我愿意用选举权、投票权等一些东西，来换取那种宗教体验和与女性共处的时光。
You've got all your own Demeter and Persephone is crucial to It was wonderful having been brought up in a strict Anglican household of the deepest sexism, and being told that girls couldn't sing in choirs because their voices were impure, I would absolutely swap a few things like suffrage, rights to vote, for that religious experience and time with other women.
总有一天，我会写这本书。
One day, I will write that book.
哦，太棒了。
Oh, amazing.
百分之百。
100%.
你和女孩们一起称王称霸，而男孩们却在战场上死去。
You go queen out with the girlinas while the boys about die at war.
你说对了。
You've got it.
我能问一下你刚才提到的敌意吗？
Can I ask a question about what you said about the antipathy?
是的。
Yeah.
他们批评的是什么？
What was the criticism?
我的意思是，他们到底讨厌她写作或行为的哪一点？
Like, what what is it that they hated about what what her writing or her conduct?
罗马帝国正试图基督教化。
The Roman empire is trying to go Christian.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而那些教授异教哲学的人，比如新柏拉图主义，它教导你要质疑一切。
And people who taught pagan philosophy, so things like Neoplatonism, which told you to question everything.
是的。
Yeah.
并且用科学解释事物。
And do scientific explanations for things.
所以你会把彗星解释为宇宙中某种机械现象的结果，而不是上帝的征兆。
So you were going to explain comets as something to do with something that's going on mechanically in the universe, not as a sign from God.
哦。
Oh.
这构成了将民众皈依正统基督教的巨大障碍。
This represents an incredible obstacle to converting the population to proper Christianity.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
基督教。
Christianity.
因此，她成为了抵制新近皈依基督教的皇帝们的象征性人物。
So, she became a figurehead for the resistance to the newly converted emperors.
天哪。
Oh my god.
所以，某种程度上，她的新异教观点比基督教更加进步。
So, in a way, her neo pagan views were more progressive than the Christian
的那些观点。
ones.
讽刺的是。
Farsely.
这正是我想说的。
That's what I'm talking about.
因此，从18世纪初以来，她一直受到这样的评价。
And 's why her reception, as I put it, since the early eighteenth century.
这始于一位名叫约翰·托兰德的自由思想家，他是一位非凡的人物，完全支持女权主义，主张女性接受教育。
It starts with a free thinker called John To land, who is an extraordinary man, who is a total feminist, wants women to get educated.
他在伦敦支持犹太人。
He supports the Jews in London.
他是爱尔兰人，但是一位非凡的自由思想家，根本不相信宗教，痛恨那种刻板教条的宗教。
He's an Irishman, but he comes over an incredible intellectual freethinker, didn't believe really and hated horrible dogmatic religion.
因此，他在希帕提娅身上看到了宗教宽容与理性思考的结合，并相信女性应该和男性一样接受教育。
So he saw in Hypatia a combination of religious tolerance, thought, and he believed that women should be educated just as much as men.
这一切始于他于1720年撰写的一篇题为《希帕提娅》的论文。
And it starts off with a treatise he wrote called Hypatia in 1720.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
是的。
Yeah.
从那以后，她一再被用作自由思想、科学探索和宗教宽容的象征。
And after that, she has been used over and over again as a symbol of free thought, scientific investigation, and religious tolerance.
对。
Yeah.
还有STEM领域的女性，当然。
And women in STEM, of course.
女性在STEM领域完全如此。
Women totally women in STEM.
所以有两本哲学期刊都叫《希帕提娅》。
So there are two two philosophy journals called Hypatia.
多拉·罗素，伯特兰·罗素的妻子，写过关于她的书。
Dora Russell Bertrand Russell's wife wrote books under under about her.
她对女性在科学领域非常重要。
She is very, very important to women in science.
她亲爱的伊丽莎白·霍姆斯。
Her dear Elizabeth Holmes.
这真是一个关于STEM领域女性的精彩名单。
What a what a fantastic list of women in STEM.
我认识几位在STEM领域工作的女性，她们把宠物命名为希帕提娅。
I know several women in STEM who call their pets Hypatia.
哦，这太温馨了。
Oh, that's so sweet.
这是个好名字。
That is a good name
适合一只猫。
for a cat.
这是个适合猫和狗的名字。
It's big cat and dog name.
是的。
Yeah.
还曾有一些非常著名的赛马名叫希帕提娅。
There's also been some very famous racehorses called Hypatia.
我不太清楚这一切是什么时候发生的。
Don't I don't know when all this happened.
为什么是动物？
Why animals?
因为她不是动物学家。
Because she wasn't a zoologist.
我本来想说，她是不是因为喜欢拖拉机而出名？
I was gonna say, is
她是不是因为热爱赛马而闻名？
is she renowned that she loved the tractor?
你知道，她总是押注于全国大赛。
You know, she just is always betting on the grand nationals.
如果你去那些给猫取名的网站看看，是的。
If you go on what shall I call my cat sites Yeah.
它总是在前100名之内。
It's always in the top 100.
哇。
Wow.
哇。
Wow.
多么伟大的遗产。
What a legacy.
我非常喜欢这一点。
I like that a lot.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
让我们回到古代世界，或者晚期古典时代，不管我们怎么定位它。
Let's get back to the the ancient world or the or the late antiquity world, wherever we're gonna place it.
所以希帕提娅显然活跃在公元四世纪中后期，而基督教早在那之前就已经传入罗马帝国，并花了大约六十年、七十年甚至八十年才成为官方宗教，期间还遭遇了一些抵制。
So Hypatia is obviously around in the kind of mid to late three hundreds, and Christianity had been arriving in the Roman empire earlier than that, and it taken sort of sixty, seventy, eighty years to sort of become the official religion and bit of a pushback.
而在这里，我们在埃及的亚历山大， pagan 寺庙遭到了破坏。
And then, you know but in here we are in Alexandria in Egypt, and we've got damage to pagan temples.
我们看到了实实在在的物理变化。
We've got kind of real physical changes.
我们面临着紧张局势，同时一位名叫西里尔的新人物出现了。
We've got tensions, and we get the arrival of a new person called Cyril.
但在西里尔之前，我们还应该提到另一位重要人物。
But before Cyril, there's someone else important we should mention.
是的。
Yes.
所以在三月萨拉皮雍神庙被毁之后，是的。
So between March, when the Saropean was destroyed Yeah.
尼西亚信经被正式确立为
And the Nicene Creed was was officially set
基督徒必须信仰的内容。
up as as as what you have to believe in if you
基督徒。
were a Christian.
我认为希帕提娅之所以能够继续生存并教学至少再二十年，原因之一是亚历山大城的主教——也就是基督教主教——是一位对她颇为同情、思想开明的人，名叫提奥菲勒斯。
One of the reasons I think that Hypatia was able to survive and carry on teaching for at least another twenty years was that the patriarch, that means the bishop, Christian bishop of Alexandria, was a guy who was quite sympathetic to her and open minded called Theophilus.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，在这二十年里，她一直受到这位主教的保护，他不会让那些狂热分子关闭她的学校。
So, for twenty years, she was under the protection of that bishop, and he wasn't going to let all the fanatics close down.
所以他是基督徒，
So he's a Christian,
但他非常开明。
but he's quite open minded.
没错。
Absolutely.
对她的科学持宽容态度。
Tolerant of her science.
而且当时这样的人还有很多。
And there were plenty of those.
是的。
Yeah.
那样的人还有很多。
There were plenty.
当时兴起的那些事情简直是巨大的分裂和争论，早期教父们的神学争论，比如能有多少天使在针尖上跳舞，是否存在三位一体，是否存在三一神，上帝是不是一个呻吟？
The kind of things that were starting up were incredible schisms, arguments, the patristic arguments of the early church fathers that get so laughed at about how many angels can dance on a pin, is there a trinity, is there a triune, is God a moan?
你知道，这些争论全都在里面。
You know, they're all right in there.
提奥菲勒斯显然对这种教义争论并不感兴趣。
And Theophilus apparently wasn't really interested in that sort of doctrinal thing.
他是一位非常称职的牧养主教，希望在他的城市中实现犹太人、异教徒和基督徒之间的和谐。
He was a perfectly good pastoral bishop, and he wanted harmony in his city between the Jews, the pagans, and the Christians.
在公元412年发生的事情是，提奥菲勒斯去世后，一位截然不同的人成为了主教。
What happened in 04/12 is that a very different character got to be the bishop after Theophilus died.
他叫西里尔。
And he is called Cyril.
是的。
Yep.
他通过殴打另一个叫提摩太的人才获得了这个位置。
He only gets into that position by beating up another guy called Timotheus.
你知道，这符合基督教的行事方式，权力上升往往伴随着暴力。
You know, there's a huge amount of rise As is the Christian way.
是的。
Yeah.
但亚历山大城在几百年前就以‘暴乱之城’闻名。
But Alexandria had actually, for several hundred years, been known as the the riot city.
我的意思是，亚历山大人确实喜欢闹事。
I mean, they do like rioting in Alexandria.
所以，几乎任何借口都能引发暴乱。
So it was almost any excuse for a riot.
在西里尔上台之前，这里就已经发生了大量斗殴、暴乱和流血事件。
So there were lots of fights and riots and bloodshed before Cyril even got in.
所以我认为他当时已经有点偏执了
So I think he's already slightly paranoid
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