玛丽·安托瓦内特（电台剪辑版）

大家好，欢迎收听《你已死于历史》，这是一档认真对待历史的喜剧广播播客。

Hello, and welcome to You're Dead to Me, the radio for comedy podcast that takes history seriously.

我叫格雷格·詹纳。

My name is Greg Janner.

我是一名公共历史学家、作家和广播主持人。

I'm a public historian, author, and broadcaster.

今天，我们将穿上裙撑，梳起法式发型，穿越回18世纪的法国，了解玛丽·安托瓦内特女王。

And today, we are hopping into our hoop skirts and styling our hair in the French fashion as we travel back to eighteenth century France to learn about queen Marie Antoinette.

为了帮助我们区分神话与现实，我们请到了历史角落的两位特别嘉宾。

And to help us separate myth from reality, we have two very special courtiers in History Corner.

她是华威大学法国研究教授。

She's professor of French studies at the University of Warwick.

她的研究聚焦于法国大革命和拿破仑时期的文化，尤其是戏剧、版画和小说。

Her research focuses on French culture in the revolutionary and Napoleonic periods, especially plays, prints, and novels.

她著有《法国大革命创伤的叙事回应》。

She's the author of narrative responses to the trauma of the French revolution.

她是凯瑟琳·阿斯伯里教授。

It's professor Catherine Asbury.

欢迎你，凯特。

Welcome, Kate.

非常感谢您邀请我。

Thank you very much for inviting me.

在喜剧角，她是一位单口喜剧演员、演员和作家。

And in Comedy Corner, she's a stand up comedian, actor, and writer.

你一定在《现场直播：阿波罗剧场》、《模拟一周》、《弗兰基·布赖恩的新世界秩序》等所有电视节目中见过她，或者听过她的播客《WTB》或另一档播客《记忆小径》，你肯定也从我们关于埃尔南·科尔特斯、梅林辛和诺曼底的艾玛的节目中认识她。

You'll have seen her on all the TV on Live at the Apollo, Mock the Week, Frankie Boyle's New World Order, or maybe you heard her podcast, WTB, or her other podcast, Memory Lane, and you will definitely know her from our episodes on Hernan Cortez and Melinsin and on Emma of Normandy.

她是珍·布里斯塔。

It's Jen Brista.

欢迎回来，珍。

Welcome back, Jen.

谢谢你，格雷格。

Thank you, Greg.

我很高兴能回来。

I'm delighted to be back.

我们之前一起做过英国历史、西班牙历史和墨西哥历史。

We have previously done together English history, Spanish history, Mexican history.

显而易见的问题，你会说法语吗？

Obvious question, do you parne vous francais?

我不会。

I'm petite pas.

哦！

Oh!

这事儿吧，我不想多说，因为我不想让凯特难堪。

That's like, I don't want to get into it because I don't want embarrass Kate.

也不想让你自己难堪，格雷格。

Or yourself, Greg, actually.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我猜你们俩都很流利。

Guessing you're both fluent.

但我对这一集特别兴奋，不仅因为它是法国历史，这真让人愉快，更因为我真的认识这个人物。

But I am very excited about this particular episode, not least because it is French history, what a joy, but because I actually know who this person is.

这是我第一次受邀参加节目，讨论一个我认得名字的历史人物，所以我非常高兴。

And this is the first time I've been invited onto the show with a historical figure whose name I recognize, so I'm delighted.

玛丽·安托瓦内特，你听说过这个名字吗？你知道她的故事吗？

Marie Antoinette, know the name, so do you know some of the story?

说实话，我小时候听到的故事，我认为关于玛丽·安托瓦内特的大部分传说，成年后我们才知道，全是谎言。

Look, I know the story that was told when I was a child, and I think most of the myths around Mary Antoinette are, as we learned later as an adult, are complete lies.

所以我要说，我关于这位历史人物的几乎所有了解，都是不真实的。

So I'm gonna say, almost everything I know about this historical figure is not true.

有意思。

Interesting.

所以

So

我非常想知道真相。

I'm really intrigued to hear the truth.

那么，你知道些什么？

So, what do you know?

这就是‘那你了解多少？’环节，我想你们这些可爱的听众对今天的主角也有所耳闻，我敢打赌你们都会喊出‘让他们吃蛋糕吧’。

This is the So What do you know where I guess what you, our lovely listener, might know about today's subject, and I bet you all shouted, let them eat cake.

她根本没说过这句话。

She didn't say it.

拜托了。

Come on.

你可能看过索菲亚·科波拉2006年那部精彩的电影《玛丽·安托瓦内特》，片中由克里斯滕·邓斯特主演，配乐是朋克摇滚风格；或者最近BBC播出的《玛丽·安托瓦内特》电视剧。

You may have seen Sofia Coppola's fabulous 2006 film, Marie Antoinette, with the punk rock soundtrack starring Kirsten Dunst, or the most recent Marie Antoinette TV drama series on the BBC.

当然，你或许也记得，在2024年巴黎奥运会开幕式上，重金属乐队Gogera震撼全场的获奖表演，现场还有许多身着血红色礼服、被斩首的玛丽·安托瓦内特形象。

Of course, you might also remember the shocking Grammy award winning performance by heavy metal titans, Gogera, at the twenty twenty four Paris Olympic opening ceremony, accompanied by numerous decapitated Marie Antoinettes in blood red dresses.

玛丽·安托瓦内特是现代流行文化中的标志性人物，但她的真实生活究竟是怎样的？

Marie Antoinette is a modern pop culture icon, but what was her life really like?

一位奥地利公主是如何成为法国命运多舛的王后的？她到底拥有多少条裙子？

How did an Austrian princess become France's doomed queen, and how many dresses did she really own?

让我们来一探究竟。

Let's find out.

好的。

Alright.

凯特教授，我们从头开始吧。

Professor Kate, let's start at the beginning.

玛丽·安托瓦内特何时何地出生？那是她的真名吗？

When and where was Marie Antoinette born, and was that her name?

奥地利女大公玛丽亚·安东妮亚于1755年2月出生，是哈布斯堡王朝统治者玛丽亚·特蕾莎女皇与皇帝弗朗茨一世的第十五个孩子。

So, the Archduchess Maria Antonia of Austria was born on 02/1755, the fifteenth child of XVI of the Empress Maria Theresa, ruler of the Habsburg dynasty from 1740, and father, Emperor Francis I.

她的母亲玛丽亚·特蕾莎是一位政治强人，在军事和外交事务中发挥了巨大作用。

Her mother, Maria Theresa, was a political powerhouse, and played a huge role in managing military and diplomatic affairs.

1756年，她与奥地利长期的敌人法国结成重大联盟，扭转了长达两百年的敌对关系。

In 1756, she made a momentous alliance with Austria's age old enemy, France, reversing two hundred years of hostility.

在维也纳宫廷里，他们讲德语、法语和意大利语，玛丽亚·安东妮亚从小在被叫安东妮亚和安托万之间切换。

At court in Vienna, they spoke German, French and Italian, and Maria Antonia grew up sliding between being called Antonia and Antoine.

家族里的所有女孩名字都以玛丽亚开头，所以她们通常会避免使用这个名字。

All the girls in the family had Maria as a first name, so they tended to avoid that.

她们都叫玛丽亚？

They were all called Maria?

她们都叫玛丽亚。

They were all called Maria.

这是一种家族传统。

It was a family tradition.

所有的女孩名字都以玛丽亚开头。

The girls all had Maria

作为第一个名字？你怎么解决像玛丽亚这样的问题？

as a first How do you solve a problem like Maria?

你用第二个名字。

You use the second name.

因为她也是家里最小的孩子之一，人们还称她为安托瓦内特，这是法语中的昵称，意为‘小安托万’。

Because she was also one of the youngest in the family, she was also referred to as Antoinette, which is a French diminutive, meaning little Antoine.

最终，这个名字就保留了下来。

And in the end, that's the name that stuck.

很可爱。

It's cute.

是的。

Yeah.

在西班牙也是这样做的。

They do that in Spain as well.

他们会有个亲昵的昵称。

They have a little diminutive name.

他们都叫玛丽亚。

They're all called Maria.

我觉得这得有十六个孩子吧。

I feel like that's 16 kids.

来吧。

Come on.

不。

No.

嗯，男孩们不会叫玛丽亚。

Well, boys weren't called Maria.

哦，我明白了。

Oh, got it.

他们叫什么？

What were they called?

法国。

France.

利奥波德，约瑟夫。

Leopold, Joseph.

好。

Good.

很好，稳固，适合上战场。

Good good solid Good solid for going to war.

所以她在维也纳长大？

And so she grew up in Vienna?

她在维也纳长大。

She grew up in Vienna.

对。

Right.

所以这是我之前不知道的一个事实。

So there's fact numero uno that I did not know.

我以为玛丽·安托瓦内特是法国人。

I thought Marie Antoinette was French.

这真有点尴尬。

So that's quite embarrassing.

所以我们有一位公主。

So we have a princess.

我们有一位大公爵小姐。

We have an archduchess.

你可以猜到她的未来会怎样，珍，毕竟母亲为她规划了未来。

You can presumably guess what her future's gonna be, Jen, in terms of what mother is planning for her.

是的。

Yes.

所以我猜她正计划让她嫁给法国一个非常显赫的王室。

So I imagine she's planning a very prestigious marriage into a very prestigious court in France.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Bang on.

我的意思是，这就是计划。

I mean, that's the plan.

对吧？

Right?

当然。

Absolutely.

一语中的。

Got it in one.

是的。

Yeah.

我们才刚进入这一集，就已经在谈婚礼了。

So we're minutes into the episode, already wedding bells.

我们这里说的是一个小女孩。

We're talking about a little girl here.

是的，没错。

Yes, we are.

等等，等等。

Oh, wait a second.

稍等一下。

Hang on.

倒带。

Rewind.

我刚才说的是未来的事。

I was talking about in the future.

所以她小时候就被订婚了。

So she had been betrothed as a child.

她小时候就被订婚了。

She is betrothed as a child.

玛丽亚·特蕾莎的计划是让她嫁给法国国王路易十五的孙子，他也叫路易。

Maria Theresa's plan is for her to marry the French king Louis XV's grandson, who's also called Louis.

奥地利所有的女孩都叫玛丽亚，法国所有的男孩都叫路易。

We've got all the girls all the girls in Austria called Maria and all the boys in France called Louis.

小路易的父亲去世了，他成为法国王位的继承人。

Little Louis's father has died, and he becomes heir to the throne in France.

他被称为王太子。

He's known as the Dauphin.

在那时，玛丽亚·特蕾莎决定，这将是加强奥地利和法国这两个世仇之间新联盟的绝佳方式。

And at that point, Maria Theresa decides that this is going to be a great way of reinforcing this new alliance between the age old enemies, Austria and France.

路易只比安托瓦内特大一岁，但这被认为是好事，因为他们的年龄很接近。

Louis is only a year older than Antoinette, but that's considered good because they're quite close in age.

但他被描述为一个瘦高、沉默、紧张的少年。

But he's described as a lanky, silent, nervous lad.

难道所有青少年不都是这样吗？我本来想说，

Aren't all teenagers always I was gonna say,

他是个很普通的男孩。

he's quite a standard boy.

那

That

在16岁之前结婚很常见吗？你知道的，还是说不常见？

is Is a teenage it quite usual then to get married, you know, before they're 16, or is it?

哦，很常见。

Oh, it is.

这是正常的。

It is normal.

对。

Yes.

对于普通人来说，不是。

For average people, no.

但对于王子、为了王朝来说。

But for princes, for dynasty.

但对于皇室来说。

But for royalty.

是的。

Yeah.

所以她现在13岁，已经到了这个阶段。

So she has got to that point now at the age of 13.

她将离开维也纳宫廷的家，前往巴黎，与她14岁的新丈夫一起生活。

She's gonna now move away from her home in in the Vienna Court to go to Paris to live with her new husband who is 14.

她14岁时被送往法国。

She's sent off to France aged 14.

于是，麻烦婚姻的警报响起，不幸的是，我们在本节目中不得不频繁地鸣响这个警报。

So cue the problematic marriage claxon, which we unfortunately have to honk a lot on this show.

当她抵达法国时，你想象的是怎样的情景？

And so when she arrives in France, what are you imagining?

你是不是在想哈里和梅根？

Are you sort of are you thinking Harry and Meghan?

是凯特和威廉吗？

Is it Kate and Wills?

你知道，那种氛围是怎样的？

You know, is what kind of what's the vibe?

有趣吗？

Is it fun?

人们开心吗？

Are people happy?

你知道的。

You know?

你只有这两种选择。

Those are the only two options you have.

你只有

Those are the only

两种，你就只有

two That's all you

这些了。

got.

好吧。

Okay.

我打算避开比较婚礼。

I'm gonna sidestep comparing the Oh.

无论是哪一个。

The wedding to either.

她于1770年5月抵达，并在贡比涅会见了路易十五国王。

She arrives in May 1770 and meets king Louis the fifteenth at Compiegne.

随后，她被介绍给年轻的路易，也就是她未来的丈夫，以及整个王室家族。

She's then introduced to young Louis, her future husband, and the extended family.

两天后，即5月16日，两人在凡尔赛结婚，她成为了法国王太子妃。

And two days later, the May 16, the pair were married at Versailles, and she became Dauphine of France.

但这还不是全部，因为珍在新婚之夜，事情变得尴尬了。

That's not the end of it, because Jen, on the wedding night, things get awkward.

你知道为什么吗？

Do you know why?

为什么这对新婚夫妇会感到尴尬呢？

Why would it be awkward for the new married couple?

嗯，我不知道他们在做什么。

Well, don't know what they're doing.

不只是那样。

Not just that.

他们面对观众时也不知道该怎么做。

They don't know what they're doing with an audience.

为什么必须举行这种送她上床的仪式呢？

Why does it host, they have to make sure that they're that that she's There's going to bed ceremony.

得了吧。

Oh, come on.

这很难。

It's hard.

我的意思是，我们都记得自己的第一次。

I mean, we've all remember our first time.

你能想象有观众在场吗？还有比这更糟的吗？

Can you imagine with an audience, anything worse?

凯特，给我们详细讲讲吧。

Kate, just talk us through it.

所以大主教为床祝福。

So the archbishop blesses the bed.

这肯定能让你有感觉。

That's that's definitely gonna get you in mood.

这真的会让你有感觉。

That's really gonna get

有感觉。

you in the mood.

然后，路易十五把睡衣交给王太子。

Louis the fifteenth then hands the dauphin his nightshirt.

所以祖父也在场，天哪。

So the grandfather is there Oh my.

提供指导。

Offering advice.

接着，他们必须在国王和整个宫廷面前躺下，以证明他们共用了一张床。

They then have to lie down in front of the king and the entire court to prove that they have shared the same bed.

国王的建议有用吗，凯特？

The king's advice, was it useful, Kate?

路易斯有没有抓住这个机会，这么说吧？

Did Louis rise to the occasion, so to speak?

路易斯没有抓住这个机会。

Louis did not rise to the occasion.

这段婚姻七年都没有 consummated。

The marriage was unconsummated for seven years.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

杀掉某个神父。

Kill some priest.

他是同性恋吗？

Is he gay?

或者受过创伤。

Or traumatized.

他可能是受过创伤。

He could be traumatized.

对。

Right.

或者不到16岁。

Or not to 16.

关于为什么这段婚姻没有 consummated，有很多讨论。

There's a lot of discussion over why was the marriage not consummated.

七年。

Seven years.

很长一段时间。

Long time.

我们不知道。

We don't know

是个人犹豫，还是健康原因。

if it was personal hesitation, whether it was health related.

也许有些事情最好让历史尘封。

Maybe some things are just best lost to history.

我们不知道为什么。

We don't know why.

七年。

Seven years.

我们就干脆把它放一边吧。

We'll just sort of write that off.

好的。

Okay.

既然未 consummated 的婚姻已经成了问题，1774年，也就是他们仍然不共寝的第四年，路易突然成了法国国王。

So with the uncontumated marriage already proving an issue, in 1774, so this was still four years into their not sleeping together problem, suddenly Louis was the king of France.

因为路易十五去世了，玛丽·安托瓦内特成为了法国王后。

Because Louis the fifteenth died, making Marie Antoinette the queen of France.

所以她当时19岁左右？

So she was 19, just about?

差不多19岁。

Just about 19.

好的。

Okay.

刚满19岁。

Just turned 19.

所以我们通常在这个年龄上大学或者找到第一份工作。

So the age at which we would normally maybe go to university or maybe get your first job.

她的第一份工作，是女王。

Her first job, queen.

是的。

Yeah.

这压力太大了。

That's a lot.

凯特，她上任后第一件事在宫廷政治上做了什么？

What's the first thing she does, Kate, in terms of court politics?

情况怎么样？

How does it go?

也许没有本可以做得那么好

Not perhaps as well as it might

完成。

have done.

好的。

Okay.

这事儿挺奇怪的。

It's a funny thing.

我的意思是，他们俩都还很年轻。

I mean, they're both still very young.

是的。

Yeah.

他们非常缺乏经验。

They're very inexperienced.

她无所事事，因为婚姻并未 consummated。

She has nothing to do because the marriage isn't consummated.

她不会怀孕，因此她留在宫廷的唯一理由也就不存在了。

She's not going to get pregnant, and therefore her sole reason for being at court can't exist.

于是她用赌博、舞会、化装潜入巴黎参加舞会和剧院来打发时间。

So she fills her time with gambling, with balls, with going incognito into Paris, to balls, to the theatre.

她聚集了一群年龄更接近自己的年轻人。

She gathers around her a group of young people nearer her own age.

她对宫廷中年长成员的礼貌毫不在意。

She's not interested in being polite to the older members of court.

她讨厌宫廷里极其严格的礼仪，因此竭尽所能地回避这些规矩。

She hates the really strict etiquette of court, so she does all she can to sort of sidestep that.

她更希望拥有一点私人空间。

She'd rather have a little bit of privacy.

她不想把所有时间都花在公众目光下。

She doesn't want to spend all her time in the public eye.

事实上，她继续过着作为法国王储妻子时的生活，而不是在成为王后后改变自己的行为。

And really, she carries on living the life she'd lived whilst she was the wife of the heir to France, rather than changing her behavior once she's become queen.

所以，珍，你觉得她在ratemymonarch.com上的评分怎么样？

So, Jen, how do you think she's doing on ratemymonarch.com?

你觉得法国人民对他们的新女王满意吗？

Do you think the people of France are pleased about their new queen?

我猜法国人民，他们是非常爱表达意见的群体。

I'm guessing the people of France, and they are very vocal as a people.

他们对这位新女王一点也不高兴，她似乎只顾着尽情享乐，却忽视了人民的需求和愿望，尤其是巴黎和法国的劳动人民。

Not at all happy with their new queen, who appears to be just having a big old jolly, and ignoring the needs and wants of the people, particularly the working people of Paris, and of France rather.

所以我想象，怨恨和愤怒正在不断积累。

So I would imagine there's a lot of resentment and anger building.

后来法国大革命中出现的问题，其实现在就已经存在了，对吧？

The problems that will later arise in the French Revolution, they're already there, right?

它们已经存在了，

They are already there,

是的。

yes.

好的。

Okay.

琼，如果你是玛丽安·特沃内特，你会如何扭转局面？

Joan, how would you turn things around if you were Marianne Twonnette?

你有什么政策能让人们爱你？

What's your policy to get people to love you?

嗯，我会想为人民做点什么，搞一个盛大的举动，比如，嘿，朋友们，我办个盛大的派对，专门为你们举办，因为我爱你们，我真的想让你们知道我在乎你们

Well, I would think I would do something for the people and make a really big gesture that is like, you know, oh, guys, I've got this great big party, and I'm gonna put it on for you because I love you, and I really want you to know that I care about

和你们。

you and that.

所以你会说‘让他们吃蛋糕’吗？

So you'd say let them eat cake?

我会的。

I would

我会说。

I would say.

各位，我很抱歉你们处于贫困中，但你们之前吃过果冻和冰淇淋吗？

Guys, I'm really sorry that you're in poverty, but I'm just have you had jelly and ice cream before?

凯特，她做的最重要的事，当然是营造一种氛围。

Kate, she does the most important thing, of course, she produces an air.

这才是关键。

That is what matters.

她确实就是这样

She That's really what

真正起作用的是。

makes does.

最终，她生了一个女儿，玛丽·特蕾莎·夏洛特，出生于1778年。

Finally, she has a daughter, Marie Therese Charlotte, born in 1778.

又一个玛丽。

Another Marie.

是的。

Yeah.

另一个玛丽。

Another Marie.

她于1781年生下了路易·约瑟夫，但他七岁时就去世了，就在

She has Louis Joseph in 1781, though he will die aged seven just

开始之前。

before starts.

王太子。

Dauphin.

那就是王太子。

Was the Dauphin.

是的。

Yeah.

他在1789年法国大革命爆发前夕去世。

He dies just before the start of the French Revolution in 1789.

路易·查尔斯出生于1785年，索菲·埃莱娜·贝特丽丝出生于1786年，但一岁就夭折了。

Louis Charles, who is born in 1785, and Sophie Helene Beatrice in 1786, who dies aged one.

所以，她一共有四个孩子，其中两个在她生前就去世了。

So, she has four children, two of whom will die in her lifetime.

这确实提升了她的受欢迎程度，但由于婚后与第一个孩子出生之间相隔了很长时间，关于每个孩子生父是谁的流言蜚语层出不穷。

It did help her popularity, but because of the gap between the marriage and the first child being born, there are a huge number of rumors about who the father of each of these children is.

好的，凯特，我有个问题。

Okay, Kate, here's my question.

因为作为一位我其实不太了解的历史人物，我所知道的关于她的内容都非常片面，而且她一直被塑造成一个极其负面的形象。

Because as a historical figure that I certainly don't know a great deal about, what I do know about her is that it's it's very two dimensional and she has been given a really hard wrap.

除了她是个只顾享乐、非常自我中心的派对女孩，还经历了作为母亲的诸多丧子之痛，玛丽·安托瓦内特还有没有其他值得肯定的优点？

Are there any redeeming qualities to Marie Antoinette other than that she's a party girl that is very self involved, suffered a lot of losses as a mother.

有没有其他我们能为她鼓劲、给予更多正面评价的事情？

Anything else going on for her that we can give her a little bit of cheerleading for?

好的，我们当然可以试着说一说。

Okay, we can certainly try.

她对艺术和文化的赞助难道不是一个重要贡献吗？

How about her being an important figure in the patronage of arts and culture?

好的。

Okay.

特别是装饰艺术和音乐。

So particularly decorative arts and music.

她利用自己的影响力，将公众的音乐品味导向更现代、更国际化的风格。

She uses her influence to move public tastes to a more modern cosmopolitan style of music.

她在剧院里定下了基调。

She sets the agenda in the theatre.

在时尚方面，她当然也引领了潮流。

She certainly sets the agenda when we come to fashion as well.

那政治呢？

And what about politics?

在18世纪，法国宫廷的发展方式是，国王的情妇才是能影响国王、为他人争取恩惠和利益的人。

So the way that the French court had developed over the eighteenth century was that the mistress of the king was the one who had the king's ear and could be the one to sort of get favors advantages from.

路易十六对娶情妇不感兴趣，人们却期待玛丽·安托瓦内特能为他们谋取好处。

Louis isn't interested in taking a mistress, people expect Marie Antoinette to gain them favors.

但她必须走一条非常微妙的路，因为她不能让人觉得她越界了。

But she has a very fine line to tread because she can't be seen to be- Overstepping her mark.

越界了。

Overstepping her mark.

没错。

Exactly.

她作为王后的角色。

Her role as consort.

她的职责是生育子嗣。

Her role is to bear children.

因此她处于一种略显尴尬的境地，被指责干预朝政，因为没人替她背锅。

So she's in a slightly awkward position and accused of meddling because there isn't anyone else to take the flak.

所以她实际上兼具了女王和情妇的双重角色，因为她能影响国王。

So she's effectively queen and mistress because she has the king's ear.

是的。

Yeah.

所以所有压力都集中到了她身上。

So it's all concentrated down onto her.

我们需要谈谈阿玛兰托瓦内特和时尚。

We need to talk about Amarantoinette and fashion.

她以这一点而闻名。

She's renowned for it.

很快将在VNA博物馆举办一场关于她那些惊人服饰的新展览。

There's a new exhibition coming to the VNA Museum soon about her her sort of amazing clothes.

珍，你知道她每年从她最喜欢的裁缝那里订购多少条新裙子吗？

Jen, do you know how many new dresses she ordered per year from her favorite dressmaker?

哦，我猜有几百条。

Oh, I'm imagining in the hundreds.

是的。

Yeah.

是300条。

Was 300.

一年300件？

300 a year?

一年300件。

300 a year.

全新的裙子。

Brand new dresses.

所以那几乎是每天都要换一件新裙子。

So that's a that's almost a new dress for every single day.

是的。

Yeah.

你能跟我们多讲讲时尚和玛丽·安托瓦内特在其中的角色吗？

Can you tell us more about fashion and Marie Antoinette's sort of role within it?

很多人知道玛丽·安托瓦内特的一点，就是她奢华的服饰。

One of the things that lots of people know about Marie Antoinette is her extravagant clothing.

当时她被指责在裙子上花销太多。

She was accused at the time of spending too much money on dresses.

不过，为她辩护的话，她本意是想宣扬法国文化的优越性。

Although, in her defense, she is supposed to be promoting the superiority of French culture.

她代表着国家，也因此让数十乃至数百人得以就业，作为法国的象征。

She represents the nation and is keeping dozens, if not hundreds, of people employed as a result of being the face of France in that sense.

但同样，玛丽·安托瓦内特总是受到批评，你知道的，这么做不对，那么做也不对。

But again, Marie Antoinette finds herself criticized, you know, w do, w don't.

她因花费过多在奢华服饰上而受批评，但当她尝试穿更朴素的衣服时，也同样遭到批评。

She's criticized for spending too much on over the top outfits, but then she's also criticized when she tries wearing simpler clothes.

所以有一件非常著名的裙子叫‘女王式长裙’，是用白色亚麻布而非法国丝绸制成的。

So there's a really famous dress that's called the chemise a la reine, which was made out of white muslin rather than French silk.

在当时的标准看来，这是一种非常休闲的服装。

And it's seen by the standards of the time as a really casual garment.

正式的法国宫廷礼服，有紧身胸衣和巨大的裙摆。

The formal French court dresses, you've got the tight corsets, you've got the giant skirts.

而这件裙子则宽松得多。

This is much, much looser.

这是一种新古典主义风格。

It's a sort of neoclassical.

我们正朝着简·奥斯汀那样的风格发展。

We're heading towards Jane Austen sort of style.

这几乎就像一件睡衣，不是吗？

It's almost a slip, isn't it?

这几乎就像一件睡衣。

It's almost a slip.

它看起来像一件内衣。

It it looks like an underdress.

如果拿它和别人穿的衣服相比，肯定看起来完全疯了。

Well, must have looked completely bananas when you compare it to what everyone else was wearing.

他们一定以为你在穿睡衣吗？

They must have thought, you wearing your night dress?

确实如此。

It was.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

与此同时，又爆出了一起重大丑闻。

And meanwhile, another huge scandal breaks out.

这次涉及一条非常著名的项链。

This one involving a very famous necklace.

这被称为钻石项链事件。

It's called the diamond necklace affair.

发生了什么？

What happens?

一个骗子试图说服前法国驻维也纳大使购买这条项链，以博取玛丽·安托瓦内特的欢心。

A con artist tries to persuade the former French ambassador to Vienna to buy a necklace to get him back into Marie Antoinette's favour.

这条项链是路易十五为情妇订购的，但从未购买，而玛丽·安托瓦内特也拒绝了它。

This is a necklace that Louis the fifteenth had ordered for his mistress, but never bought, And Marie Antoinette had turned it down.

前法国驻维也纳大使鲁昂认为，这是重新获得王后好感的好办法，于是买下了这条项链，结果却发现他被骗子彻底骗了——骗子拿走珠宝后逃之夭夭。

The former French ambassador, Rouhan, thought that it was a good way of getting back in the Queen's good books, buys it, and then finds that he's been completely duped by the con artist who's taken the jewels and done a runner.

是的。

Yeah.

他还雇了一名女演员来扮演王后。

And he's hired a sort of an actress to perform as the queen.

对吧？

Right?

所以是的。

So Yeah.

这里面其实是个骗局。

There's a sort of con in there.

你知道的，玛丽·安托瓦内特那边也察觉到了，她心想：等等。

It's a know, and Paul Marie Antoinette's sort of left going, hang on.

什么？

What?

我从来没听说过这个人。

I don't I've never even heard of this guy.

是的。

Yeah.

罗汉以为自己见到的是女王，实际上他见到的是一名长相相似的性工作者。

The queen Rohan thought that he was meeting the queen when he was actually meeting a lookalike sex worker.

对。

Right.

每个人都觉得，他在凡尔赛宫的花园里晚上见到女王是完全可能的。

And everyone believed that that was entirely plausible that he might meet the queen in the gardens of Versailles at night.

因此，没人觉得这有什么异常。

And therefore, nobody thought that that was anything out of the ordinary.

到那时，她的声誉已经跌到了谷底。

So far had her reputation slumped by then.

天哪。

Oh, dear.