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在进入正题之前，提醒一下，你可以收听每月的额外节目。
Before we get into the episode, this is your reminder that you can access monthly bonus episodes.
你可以通过Spotify Premium或Apple订阅，或者加入我们的Patreon。
You can subscribe on Spotify Premium or Apple subscriptions or join our Patreon.
在我们的Patreon上，我每周会发布一篇关于开国元勋饮食的博客文章，或者讨论体重是否会导致跑步受伤的风险。
On our Patreon, I publish a weekly blog post I've written about the founding fathers diet or if weight is a running injury risk.
我研究过食物营养是否真的在下降的科学问题，我们还发布了关于肌酸和食物渴望的指南。
I've looked at the science of if food is actually getting less nutritious, and we publish guides to things like creatine and food cravings.
每周都有大量新内容。
There's So tons of new content every single week.
Kylee还会回答你的营养问题。
Kylee also answers your nutrition questions.
我们有每周讨论帖，Kylee每月还会做直播问答。
We have weekly discussion threads and Kylee's doing monthly live Q and As.
而且我们每周都会发布一个食谱，所以你不仅能得到很多内容，还能支持《你的饮食很糟糕》这个节目。
And every single week we publish a recipe so you get a ton of stuff and you get to support YOURDIET SUCKS.
只要五美元，你就能得到所有这些，还能支持我们的播客。
For just $5 you get all of that and you support the podcast.
你的支持能帮助我们继续做我们正在做的事情。
Your support helps us keep doing what we're doing.
当赞助商来来去去时，是我们的社区让我们坚持下去，帮助我们维持运营并保持独立。
When sponsors come and go, our community is what keeps us going and helps us stay afloat and stay independent.
所以，对于那些已经支持我们的人，谢谢你们。
So for those of you who already support us, thank you.
通过节目笔记中的链接加入我们的Patreon。
Join our Patreon at the link in show notes.
欢迎收听《你的饮食有问题》，这个播客不会向你推销54美元的假鸡尾酒来修复你测量错误的激素。
Welcome to YOURDIET SEX, the podcast that won't sell you a $54 mocktail to fix a hormone you're measuring wrong.
我是凯莉·范·霍恩。
I'm Kylee Van Horn.
我是佐伊·罗姆。
And I'm Zoey Rome.
Zoey，我很好奇。
Zoey, I'm curious.
在过去，嗯，大概六个月到一年吧
In the last, I don't know, six months to a year
对。
Mhmm.
有多少次有人问你关于某种健康问题或者你遇到的事情？
How many times have people asked you about some kind of health issue or something that you're having?
他们有没有说那可能是你的皮质醇问题？
Do they claim that it could be your cortisol?
哦，当然，百分之百，因为我是一个有点压力大的女性。
Oh, I mean, a 100% because I'm a slightly stressed out woman.
显然，某种皮质醇失衡是我任何身体或心理问题的根源，可能也是我财务困境和感情问题的来源，如果我们把这一切都归咎于它的话。
Obviously, some sort of cortisol imbalance is the root cause of, you know, any physical, mental ailment I've had and probably also the source of my financial woes and like relationship problems if we're This taking it all the
是皮质醇过高。
is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是皮质醇。
This is cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇。
This is high cortisol.
这是高皮质醇，这也是高皮质醇。
This is is high cortisol, and this is high cortisol.
你晚上不
You don't
睡觉吗？
sleep at night?
高皮质醇。
High cortisol.
耳朵里有响声吗？
Ringing in your ear?
耳朵里有响声，还有眼皮偶尔跳？
Ringing in your ears in random eye twitching?
皮质醇高。
High cortisol.
皮质醇高。
High cortisol.
一只眼睛跳？
One eye twitches?
皮质醇高。
High cortisol.
眼睛乱跳？
Random eye twitch?
皮质醇高。
High cortisol.
压力大、心情不好，皮质醇高。
Stress and bad mood, high cortisol.
掉头发，皮质醇高。
Hair's falling out, high cortisol.
晚上睡不着，白天得靠咖啡因撑着，皮质醇太高了。
You're not sleeping at night and you need caffeine to function, high cortisol.
压力大或者心情不好，皮质醇就高。
Stress or in a bad mood, high cortisol.
皮质醇失衡会导致胰岛素抵抗、肠道问题、没精神，整个人都不对劲。
When your cortisol is out of balance, it leads to things like insulin resistance, gut issues, you not feeling energized and you just not feeling like yourself.
每天凌晨三点就醒，脑子还特别清醒，皮质醇太高了。
Up at 3AM every night wired, high cortisol.
容易过度兴奋，皮质醇太高了。
Easily overstimulated, high cortisol.
不管睡多久都像行尸走肉一样，皮质醇太高了。
Feeling like a zombie no matter how much sleep you get, high cortisol.
不管吃什么，脸都肿得像气球，特别浮肿，还总想吃甜的，这些都是皮质醇高的表现。
Looking like a balloon no matter what I ate, extremely puffy face, always craving sugar, and those were all things that are related to high cortisol.
所以我们需要补充营养。
This is why we need to supplement.
它涵盖了一切。
It's the all encompassing.
没错。
Exactly.
一切都归根结底
It all goes back
到皮质醇。
to cortisol.
那么，从症状上看，人们会听到什么？
So, symptom wise, what would people hear?
也许是浮肿之类的，对吧。
Maybe like puffiness or Yeah.
发炎，或者睡眠问题之类的。
Inflamed or like your sleep issues or something maybe.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我经常听到人们说，如果你累了，那可能是你的皮质醇问题。
I feel like I hear it all the time in terms of people being like, if you're tired, it's probably your cortisol.
如果你睡太多或者睡不够，那也可能是皮质醇。
If you are sleeping too much or not sleeping enough, probably cortisol.
如果你的脸看起来有点肿，那也可能是皮质醇。
If your face looks a little bit inflamed, it's probably cortisol.
如果你感觉不饿或者太饿，那也大概是皮质醇。
If you're feeling not hungry or too hungry, also probably cortisol.
如果你的头发、牙齿、皮肤、指甲、生活，所有方面都有问题，那也大概是皮质醇。
If you're having issues with your hair, teeth, skin, nails, life, all of it, probably cortisol.
我觉得这里最重要的一点，也是我今天特别想理清的是，我尤其觉得这些说法很多是针对随着年龄增长的女性。
And I feel like the big thing here, the thing that I'm really curious to sort of untangle today is I especially feel like a lot of this is aimed at women as they age.
而且它跟运动、健身、锻炼扯上关系的方式，让我感到非常困扰，因为我觉得有些方式实际上可能会鼓励女性减少锻炼，而这种方式我并不太赞同。
And the way that it's gotten caught up in exercising, fitness, working out, I feel very troubled by because I feel like there are ways where it could actually encourage women to exercise less in ways that I'm not super stoked on.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得它总想卖给我们一些可能并不需要的东西。
I feel like it tries to sell you things that we don't maybe need.
没错。
Exactly.
就是那些适应原拿铁。
The the adaptogen lattes.
对，就是这样。
Yes, exactly.
天哪。
Oh my god.
而且我脑子里马上就想到了“促智药”这个词。
And just the word nootropics, I feel like comes to mind.
但我觉得关于皮质醇，有太多不同的所谓解决方案、粉末、软糖之类的产品。你知道，我们大概一年前就做过一期关于“能否操控你的荷尔蒙”的节目，但皮质醇似乎一次又一次地成为运动员任何问题的替罪羊。
But I feel like there's so many different like fixes and powders and gummies and whatnot for cortisol and you know, we had our episode probably over a year ago at this point about if you can hack your hormones but cortisol, I feel like comes up again and again as being the sort of boogeyman for any issue that an athlete can have.
我有点好奇，我们是怎么从“皮质醇是我们离不开的激素”变成“Instagram或TikTok上有人说它在毁掉你的脸”的？这是新现象，还是我们只是在重复一个旧观点？
I'm kinda curious, how did we get from cortisol being like this hormone that we die without, to cortisol being a thing that somebody on Instagram or TikTok says is wrecking your face, and is this new or are we kind of recycling an idea?
这说法是从哪儿来的？
Where was this coming from?
减少、重复使用、再循环，同样的健康理念翻来覆去地炒。
Reduce, reuse, recycle the same wellness ideas over and over again.
我真的觉得，从历史角度看，皮质醇的故事基本上就是其他任何健康界“大反派”的重播。
I really feel like the cortisol story from historical perspective is basically a rerun of like insert any other wellness boogeyman.
基本上你可以把它当成一个填空游戏，把炎症套进去，很多地方都适用。
Mean you could basically just make it a Mad Libs and you could sub in inflammation for a lot of these things.
你知道，我们在激素那期节目里聊过，驳斥了肾上腺疲劳这个概念，但我觉得它总是反复出现。
You know, we sort of talked about that in the hormones episode with debunking the concept of adrenal fatigue but I think it just comes up again and again.
所以二十年来，健康产业一直在推销肾上腺疲劳，而每个内分泌科医生都说这根本不存在。
So for twenty years, I feel like the wellness industry sold adrenal fatigue which is something that every endocrinologist says doesn't exist.
我们还聊过一篇我特别喜欢标题的论文，就叫《肾上腺疲劳不是真的》，对，就是那篇。
We even talked about one of my favoritely titled papers of all time is the paper, adrenal fatigue isn't real which is Yeah.
太棒了。
Fantastic.
这样我就不用读完整篇文章了。
Saves me reading the whole thing.
我确实读完了整篇。
I did read the whole thing.
那篇元分析文章的标题就是‘肾上腺疲劳不存在’。
The meta analysis was literally titled adrenal fatigue does not exist.
我们喜欢这种带点调侃的标题。
We love petty titles.
我觉得这个观点在健康养生文化里被替换成了皮质醇，试图让它看起来更科学一点。
And I think that that idea has sort of subbed in wellness culture sort of plugged in cortisol in an attempt to make it feel a bit more sciency.
但症状列表还是那么模糊，补充剂和测试也差不多，只是现在把它和一种真实存在、在体内有实际功能的激素绑在了一起。
But it's the same vague symptom list, essentially the vague same supplements, the same tests but now it's sort of bolted onto the specific hormone that is real and does have some like actual functions in the body.
所以我觉得这就是让人困惑的地方，说实话我自己也这么觉得。
So I feel like that's where things get a little confusing like honestly for myself.
我觉得对我们来说，很难像刚才否定肾上腺疲劳那样去否定皮质醇，因为皮质醇是真实存在的。
I think it's hard for us like we can't quite debunk cortisol the same way we just debunked adrenal fatigue because cortisol is real.
压力大的时候它确实会飙升，极端情况下还会让脸浮肿。
It does spike when you're stressed and it can make your face puffy at the extreme.
这也不是完全凭空捏造的。
It's not totally made up.
但出于很多原因，它也是饮食文化里完美的反派角色。
But it's also the perfect diet culture villain for a lot of reasons.
第一，它看不见摸不着，所以你需要做检测，而很巧的是，有人会卖给你这些检测，比如佛罗里达的那些头发检测公司。
A, it's invisible so you need a test which very conveniently people will sell you looking at you hair test companies in Florida.
它很普遍，因为每个人都会感到压力，对吧？
It's universal because everyone feels stressed, right?
那种感觉很多人都能共鸣，而且能把你的情绪挂在一个具体的点上，比如“哦，我压力大，皮质醇”，这真的让人安心。
Like that's a feeling a lot of us resonate with and it's really reassuring to be able to sort of hang your hat on the peg of, oh, I'm feeling stressed, cortisol.
这就像把那种我们很多人都有的无形感受变得具体可感。
It's a way of sort of like making tactile this disembodied feeling that I think a lot of us have.
所以，皮质醇补充剂的潜在市场就是所有人，它把健康产业特别擅长赚钱的三样东西捆绑在一起：体重、精力和外貌。
And so the presumable market for cortisol supplements is everyone and it bundles these three things that wellness is extremely adept at monetizing which is weight, energy and your physical appearance.
它还能让你把节食说成是调节神经系统。
It also lets you sell a diet as nervous system regulation.
所以很多人会觉得，哦，我就是在照顾我的神经系统，这件事可以带着同样的限制感，但用更好听的词说出来。
So this thing that a lot of people will sort of tie to like, oh, well, I'm just taking care of my nervous system can sort of come with the same valence of restriction but like a more palatable vocabulary.
所以冷静变成了一种道德成就，而有压力变成了个人的失败。这真的很方便，因为如果你压力的真正来源是工作、小孩、房租和照顾父母，而这些都不是你靠吃绿色粉末或维生素软糖能解决的。
So calm becomes this moral achievement and being stressed becomes a personal failing which is really convenient if the real cause of your stress is a job and a toddler and paying rent and taking care of a parent, none of which you are able to fix by taking a green powder or a gummy vitamin.
一种适应原软糖。
An adaptogen gummy.
一种适应原软糖。
An adaptogen gummy.
我想听听，我们是不是要从肾上腺疲劳开始讲？感觉这里有点历史渊源。
I wanna hear if we're going from adrenal fatigue, feel like there's some kind of history here.
那关于压力、压力会害死你或导致健康问题的这个想法，是从哪里来的？
And where does the idea about stress and stress killing you or causing health issues come from?
对。
Yeah.
我觉得这个想法听起来很古老，但其实也就80年左右的历史。
I feel like that idea feels really ancient, but it's really about 80 years old.
所以，压力会消耗身体这个概念，基本上是由一个人发明的，汉斯·塞利，他自称是压力之父，这头衔可真够牛的。
So the concept of stress as a thing that wears your body out was basically invented by one man, Hans Selye, the self described father of stress, which is a heck of a title.
他帮忙创造了出生礼服。
He helped create in birth dress.
我不知道。
I don't know.
如果是我，我就想被人叫压力老爸，然后就此打住。说实话，我觉得这挺符合我的，我就是个压力老爸。
If it was me, I would just wanna be called stress daddy and call it a day, which honestly, feel like that is kind of my thing is being a stress daddy.
他在上世纪三四十年代建立了这个理论，用老鼠做了很多极其残忍的实验，然后通过大约39本书把这个概念推销给了公众。
So he built the idea in the nineteen thirties and forties doing extremely upsetting things to rats and then sold it to the public in something like 39 books.
但在塞利之前，压力是工程术语，指桥梁承受的负荷。他是第一个把这个概念套用到身体上的人，就像说，桥梁，身体。
But before Selye, stress was an engineering word for the load on a bridge and he was the first person to take that concept and be like, bridge, body.
哇。
Wow.
所以，是的。
So, yeah.
从来没把这两者联系在一起，但你知道的。
Never thought of those two together but, you know.
说实话，有时候我确实觉得自己像一座人形桥梁，拼命想撑住太多东西。
I mean, honestly, are days where I definitely feel like a human bridge just trying to hold way too much together.
所以，我觉得真正让人警惕的部分是，从1958年开始，塞利接受了烟草行业的资金。
So here's the part that I think it should raise people's hackles is that starting in 1958, Selye took money from the tobacco industry.
哦，行业介入来了。
Oh, an industry coming in.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Right.
你会想，那种狡猾的游说部分是从哪里冒出来的？
You're like, where is the like grifty ass lobbying part come in?
在最鼎盛的时候，他每年从烟草行业支持的烟草研究委员会那里拿大约五万美元，换算成今天的钱差不多是二十五万美元。
At the peak, he was pulling in about $50,000 a year from the industry backed Council for Tobacco Research, which is almost a $250,000 in today's money.
哇。
Wow.
是啊。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
那时候那些来路不正的钱比现在值钱多了。
Which like, man, those grifty dollars went a little bit further back then than they do today.
他的压力研究在法庭上被反复用来辩称吸烟不会导致心脏病或癌症。
And his stress research got used again and again in court to argue that smoking didn't cause heart disease or cancer.
这个说法直接来自烟草行业的内部备忘录，就是说压力让你生病。
So this pitch which was straight from an internal industry memo was that stress is what makes you sick.
吸烟只是缓解压力的一种可接受的方式。
Smoking is just an acceptable way to relieve it.
哇。
Wow.
所以这就是为什么香烟又流行回来了吗？
Is that why cigarettes are coming back in?
肯定是这样，真是不可思议。
It must be, which is like crazy.
让我觉得疯狂的是，Z世代居然在想，我们要把什么带回来？
It's crazy to me that Gen Z is like, what do we want to bring back?
不合身的牛仔裤和香烟。
Ill fitting jeans and cigarettes.
我周六晚上看到一群人，耳朵后面夹着香烟。
I saw a whole group on Saturday evening, cigarettes behind the ear.
什么？
What?
对。
Yeah.
天哪
Oh my
老天爷。
God.
就直接掏出来抽，然后还有个男的骑着自行车在大街上抽烟。
Just like whipping them out and then a dude was riding his bike smoking a cigarette down Main Street.
哇，那也太酷了吧。
Well, that's cool as hell.
确实非常酷。
That's actually very cool.
有一次在意大利，我看到一个看起来大概九十岁的老太太骑自行车。
Once in in Italy, saw I this like old ass like 90 year old looking lady riding a bicycle.
她一边骑车一边打电话，手机夹在肩膀上，还一手拿着伞一手夹着烟，我当时就想，这老太太也太酷了吧，看起来老得不行。
She was talking, she had like a phone like crunched on her shoulder and she was holding an umbrella and a cigarette while riding a bike and I was like, that's a fucking She rock looked old as hell.
我也不知道，我没数过她的年轮，但我觉得在意大利，女人到了七十岁以后，好像就一直那个样子，不会再老了。
Like I don't know how I I can't, you know, I didn't count her tree rings but like, I feel like in Italy also women hit like 70 and then they just look the same forever.
好的。
Okay.
你知道，直到他们去世。
You know, until they die.
所以，目标还是有的。
So, goals though.
而且，他从未公开他从烟草行业拿到的钱，这可不是应该的做法。
Also, he never disclosed the money he was getting from the tobacco industry which is not how things should work.
我提起这个的原因是，整个皮质醇工业体系运作的框架是，压力是悄悄杀死你的东西，而这又是最初由大烟草公司资助和塑造的想法，目的是让你停止责怪香烟。
The frame that the entire, I think that the thing that, the reason I bring this up is because the frame that the entire cortisol industrial complex runs on is that stress is the hidden thing killing you, which again, this is the idea that was sort of funded and shaped originally by big tobacco to get you to stop blaming cigarettes.
所以我觉得，当你追溯你提到的那杯54美元鸡尾酒的来源时，它就像是在说，别去看那些根本原因。
So I think that when you sort of like trace the lineage of the $54 cocktail that you were citing, it's sort of this thing of like, don't look at the like underlying causes.
让我们指着一个吓人的东西，而不是真正用科学去理清几件事。
Let's point to like one boogeyman and not try to like actually use science to disentangle several things.
那么，当我们沿着时间线再往后走一点，对吧？
So then when we move a little bit further on the timeline, right?
那接下来我们是不是就聊到真正的肾上腺疲劳了？
Then do we get to the actual adrenal fatigue?
那是从什么时候
When did that
开始出现的？对，就像Janko牛仔裤一样，这个说法是在九十年代中后期冒出来的，具体是1998年，一个叫詹姆斯·威尔逊的自然疗法师在自己出版的书里发明了“肾上腺疲劳”这个词。
come into Yeah, much like Janko Jeans, that one popped up in the mid late nineties, actually in 1998, a naturopath named James Wilson coined the phrase adrenal fatigue in a self published book.
哇。
Wow.
再说一遍，“自然疗法师”和“自己出版”这两个词，你应该记在心里。
Again, so the words naturopath and self published should should lodge in
你是什么意思？你是说把
your What do prefrontal you mean
你自己的
put your
词汇写进一本自己出版的书里？
own vocabulary in a self published book?
天哪。
Oh my god.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
就像佐伊的风格一样。
It's just like Zoey isms.
对。
Yeah.
佐伊的风格。
Zoey isms.
我有鲍伊疲劳。
I have Bowie fatigue.
所以他提出的理论是，长期压力会让你的肾上腺一直工作，直到它们累得无法再产生皮质醇。
So the theory he came up with was that chronic stress runs your adrenal glands until they're just too tired to make cortisol.
所以你会感到筋疲力尽，但同时又有点过度兴奋，而且不知怎么的还会想吃咸的东西，当然啦。
So you're left feeling wiped out but also kind of like overwired and also craving salt somehow because of course.
症状列表简直包罗万象。
The symptom list is literally all the things.
这和我们现在在那些抖音上看到的东西一模一样。
It's the same thing we see on all those TikToks today.
如果你感到疲劳，如果你有脑雾，如果你睡不好，如果你睡得太好，如果你身体疼痛，如果你肠胃有问题，如果你早上觉得需要喝咖啡——这几乎描述了我认识的每一个人，你懂的。
If you feel fatigued, if you have brain fog, if you're not sleeping well, if you're sleeping too well, if you have body aches, if you have gut problems, if you feel like you need coffee in the morning, which like that describes literally everyone I know, you know.
我不是说我的朋友是地球上最健康的人，但当你把症状的范围拉得这么宽，以至于地球上每个人都能对上号的时候，这在我看来明显就是骗局。
I'm not saying that my friends are the healthiest people on the face of the earth, but when you make the lens of these symptoms so wide that literally everyone on planet earth falls in, that is a clear grift to me.
这个想法还得到了谁的巨大推动？除了奥兹医生还能有谁。
So this idea also got a huge boost from who else but Doctor.
大约在2015年。
Oz around 2015.
这个理念在之后的几十年里，被功能医学领域的很多人一直传承着。
This mantle was carried by a lot of people in functional medicine for decades afterwards.
医生。
Doctor.
奥兹，他在我们现任政府里又回到了聚光灯下？
Oz, who's back in the spotlight in our current administration?
天哪，全都是因为最糟糕的原因。
My God, for all the worst reasons.
对。
Right.
而且这个想法被内分泌学家们严重贬低和否定。
And this idea was really heavily downplayed and dismissed by endocrinologists.
内分泌学会直接说，没有证据表明肾上腺疲劳存在。
The Endocrine Society said flat out there is no proof adrenal fatigue exists.
2016年的一项系统综述也发现没有证据，而且机制可能是反过来的。
A 2016 systematic review also found nothing and that the mechanism can run backwards.
在真正的压力下，你的肾上腺其实会分泌更多的皮质醇，而不是更少。
Under real stress, your adrenals will actually make more cortisol, not less.
它们不会耗尽的。
They don't run out.
所以我觉得这里的危害不仅仅是把一个超级愚蠢的自然疗法短语植入我们所有人的脑海里几十年，而且治疗方法本身也相当有害，因为最初它甚至包含了牛肾上腺提取物。
So I think the harm here wasn't just like implanting a super dumb naturopathic phrase in the front of all of our minds for decades, but the treatment was also pretty harmful because originally it actually included bovine adrenal extract.
是的。
Yes.
他们把磨碎的牛肾上腺做成补充剂来卖，里面实际上含有真正的类固醇激素，而且剂量没有人检查或监管，因为再说一次，这是在……
They took ground up cow adrenal glands, sold it as a supplement that actually contained real steroid hormones in doses that nobody was checking or regulating because again, this was after the
我觉得这些还在卖。
I think these are sold.
哦对，它们绝对还在卖。
Oh yes, they are absolutely still sold.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
所以如果你长期服用这些，实际上可能会抑制你自己的肾上腺功能，制造出标签上编造的那个问题。
So if you take those enough, you can actually suppress your own adrenal function manufacture the exact problem that the label invented.
所以你得到了这个虚假的标签，但你疲惫的真正原因，比如潜在的甲状腺疾病、抑郁症、睡眠呼吸暂停、贫血，还有一些非常真实的潜在原因，比如，我不知道，晚期资本主义，现在是2026年，而且奥兹医生又上新闻了，我们从不解决那些可能真正导致问题的深层问题。
So you get this fake label but the actual cause of your exhaustion like potentially thyroid disease, depression, sleep apnea, anemia, some of the like very real underlying causes like, I don't know, late capitalism, the fact that it's 2026 and Doctor.
我们从不解决那些可能真正导致问题的深层问题。
Oz is in the news again, we never address the deeper seated issues that might be causing things here.
所以，好的，在我们深入讨论皮质醇到底是什么之前，我真的很想听听你对某件事的看法。
So, okay, before we get into what cortisol actually is, I really wanna get your take on something.
我们总是把皮质醇当作一切问题的答案，这说明了什么呢？
What does it say about us that it's our cortisol is the answer for everything that we're reaching for?
比如，这种想法是从哪里来的？
Like, where did this come from?
是的，我觉得这其实只是因为人们需要一个名字来形容现代生活压力太大的感觉。
Yeah, I think it's really just that people needed a name for the feeling that modern life is just too much.
你知道吗，那种感觉就是‘我受不了了’，而皮质醇听起来比模糊的倦怠感或压力要科学得多，对吧？
You know, the sense that I can't even and cortisol sounds a lot more legitimate and scientific than like a vague feeling of ennui or stress, you know?
对。
Yeah.
所以我觉得，我们回顾一下塞利做了什么，他把那种模糊但非常普遍的人类体验，比如被生活磨得精疲力竭的感觉，
So I think, you know, let's look back at what Selye did is he took that vague but very common human experience with like being worn down by life.
赋予了它一个生物学上的定位和具体性。
He gave it a biological address and specificity.
一旦它有了名字或定位，或者达到那种具体程度，你就可以测试它、治疗它，甚至卖治愈它的药。
Once it has a name or an address or that level of specificity, you can test it, treat it and sell a cure to it.
还和烟草行业合作。
And also partner with the tobacco industry.
确实，还和烟草行业合作。
And also partner with the tobacco industry.
说实话，光是想到抽烟这件事就让我压力山大。
Honestly, just thinking about smoking a cigarette makes me feel so stressed.
我不擅长抽烟，我也不擅长。
I am not good at smoking things No, neither.
完全不会。
All.
每次我抽烟，感觉总是那么……我们会
Like anytime I smoke a thing, feel like it is always so We would
如果我们一起试着抽烟，看起来肯定特别不酷。
look so uncool if we tried to smoke a cigarette together.
百分之百。
A 100%.
我肯定会把烟夹在耳朵后面，就这么假装抽一下。
I would just have to put, would try to smoke it by putting it behind my ear for sure.
但我觉得，皮质醇的真正含义，以及我们今天要梳理的线索，就是它把这种结构性问题转移到了个人身体上。
But I think that what cortisol really is and the sort of thread that we're gonna teasing apart in today's episode is that it's where this structural problem gets sort of relocated and foisted onto the individual body.
也许你的工作实际上不可持续，而且你承担了太多的育儿责任。
Maybe your job is actually unsustainable and you are doing way too much childcare.
你的房租涨了。
Your rent was raised.
那养生行业是怎么应对的呢？
So what does the wellness industry do?
它给你一颗软糖，但这颗软糖解决不了任何问题，不过你可以买它，而且它能让你感觉自己在从这些很多人面对的、虚无缥缈的烦恼中夺回控制权。
It hands you a gummy and the gummy can't fix any of that but it can be purchased and it can make you feel like you are taking back control from a lot of these disembodied concerns that many people are facing.
我觉得这里面还有一点身份象征的意思，因为“我在调节我的神经系统”有点像“我忙死了”那种感觉，现在冷静、正念、平衡这些事都成了一种炫耀身份的资本。
There's also I think a little bit of a status signal to it because I'm regulating my nervous system is kind of the like I'm so busy thing where like calm and like being mindful and balanced and all of these things now are sort of like a status symbol flex.
而在拼命文化最盛行的时候，明显压力大从一种处境变成了一种个人成就，就像我午餐只喝咖啡那种，把现代生活的一切都甜腻化。
Whereas at the peak of hustle culture being visibly stressed went from like a circumstance to like a level of personal achievement that like I had coffee for lunch kind of sweet greenification of everything in modern life.
所以我觉得“我的皮质醇失调”这句话特别方便，它给了人们一个借口。
So I think that what my cortisol is dysregulated does is something really convenient and that it gives people permission.
它把很多问题变成了一个问题。
It makes a lot of problems become one problem.
一个你可以通过补充剂或剂量来解决的问题，而不是去更批判性地调查和审视它。
One problem that you can supplement or dose your way out of rather than investigate and interrogate on a more critical level.
所以我想回到那个话题，就是很多这些东西，可以说是有一些利益冲突的，比如说从烟草行业收了25万美元。
So I do want to come back to that idea of a lot of these things being sort of having some conflicts of interest shall we say such as receiving a $250,000 from the tobacco industry.
我确实想知道皮质醇到底是什么，它在身体里起什么作用。
I do want to find out like what cortisol actually is and what it's doing in the body.
所以我们，你知道，我们已经把历史讲了一遍。
So we sort of, you know, we've gone through the history.
也许我们可以深入一点，你带我看看皮质醇到底是什么，因为我知道它是一种激素。
Maybe we can zoom way in and you can walk me through what cortisol like actually is because I know it's a hormone.
但除此之外，我不知道它是什么来头，从哪里来的。
But beyond that, I don't know who she is and where she comes from.
它是女的。
It's a she.
那当然啦。
I mean, obviously.
你的饮食很糟糕，由兔子赞助播出。
Your diet sucks is brought to you by rabbit.
Rabbit是一个由女性创立的跑步服装品牌，总部在加州，专门为各种水平的跑者和梦想家设计衣服，让你看起来好看，感觉舒服，动起来更灵活。
Rabbit is a female founded running apparel brand based out of California that makes clothes for runners and dreamers of all levels to look good, feel great, and move even better.
现在他们刚推出了低光系列，正好适合我们现在的季节。
Right now, they just launched the low light collection built for exactly the season we're in.
这个系列有360度反光印花。
There are 360 degrees of reflective print.
所以当车灯照到你的时候，别人能看清你是个人，而不是一棵黑漆漆的树。
So when headlights hit you, you read as a person and not a dark tree.
如果你像Kylee一样喜欢晚上跑步，或者天刚亮就去遛狗，又不想看起来像刚从工地跑出来，这个系列就特别适合你。
This is perfect if you, like Kylee, like to run at night or walk your dogs at the crack of dawn without looking like you just escaped from a construction site.
他们有背心、T恤，还有经典的Fuel and Fly短裤，也就是Speedsters款，甚至还有反光帽子，如果你想低调一点的话。
They have tanks, tees, and the classic fuel and fly shorts, the speedsters, and even a reflective hat if you want to be a little more subtle.
这个系列有珊瑚色和黑色，面料特别适合暖和天气，透气性好，而且反光特别亮。
It comes in coral and black and it's this amazing warm weather fabric that breathes well and shines extremely bright.
不过白天穿出去的时候，看起来就是普通衣服。
But also, when you go out in the daytime, they just look like normal clothes.
我们和Rabbit合作推出了一款系列。
We made a collection with rabbit.
YOURDIET SUCKS技术度假装，上面印满了披萨、牛角包和法棍面包。
YOURDIET SUCKS technical resort wear covered in pizza, croissants, and baguettes.
这是一款以碳水化合物为主、地中海风格的造型，适合那些明白碳水化合物是跑步主要能量来源，同时也知道面包是人类最伟大发明之一的人。
It's a carb forward Mediterranean inspired look for people who understand that carbohydrates are the primary fuel for running and also that bread is one of humanity's greatest inventions.
这款系列将在九月初于runandrabbit.com上线。
This drops in early September at runandrabbit.com.
使用优惠码SUMMERSNACKS10可享10%折扣。
Use code SUMMERSNACKS10 for 10% off.
优惠码是SUMMERSNACKS10。
That's code SUMMERSNACKS10.
穿上法棍，吃法棍，两者兼得。
Wear the baguettes, eat the baguettes, do both.
本期节目由Microcosm Coaching赞助播出。
This episode is brought to you by Microcosm Coaching.
有一个误区我想马上澄清，那就是教练只适合严肃运动员。
Here's a myth that I wanna bust right away, that coaching is only for serious athletes.
就是那种有号码布、目标成绩和彩色编码表格的人。
The kind of people that have bib numbers and goal times and a color coded spreadsheet.
其他人大概就只能靠听播客和凭感觉自己摸索了。
Everyone else is just expected to figure it out from podcasts and vibes, I guess.
这时候，Microcosm Coaching就派上用场了。
Here is where Microcosm Coaching comes in.
Microcosm教练的是人，不只是运动员。
Microcosm coaches humans, not just athletes.
你不一定非得有比赛安排。
You don't need to have a race on the calendar.
甚至不需要跑得快。
You don't even need to be fast.
教练适合任何想多动一动，并且乐在其中的人。
Coaching is for anyone who wants to move more and have fun doing it.
你从微缩宇宙教练那里得到的是一个真实的人，不是机器人，不是AI代理，而是一个真正的人。
What you get with Microcosm Coaching is a real human person, not a bot, not an AI agent, an actual human being.
他们会和你一起制定一个个性的训练计划，这个计划是根据你的实际生活来定的，而不是一个假设你有九个小时空闲、没有工作、还有住家厨师和按摩师的模板。
They'll work with you to build an individualized training plan that's built around your actual life, not a template that assumes you have nine free hours a day and no job and a live in chef and masseur.
那当然好了。
Must be nice.
你会从教练那里得到反馈，教练会看你的训练日志并回复你。
You get feedback from a coach who reads your training log and responds.
你得到的计划是灵活的，当你的孩子生病、膝盖感觉不对劲，或者你主持一个严格核实来源的、基于科学的营养播客，然后你意识到明天之前需要读11篇同行评审的论文时，计划都能调整。
You get a plan that flexes when your kid gets sick, your knee feels weird, or if you host a rigorously sourced fact check nutrition science podcast and you realize that you need to read 11 peer reviewed papers before tomorrow.
就是这种平常的事情。
Normal stuff like that.
他们对待第一次五公里跑和第十次一百英里跑一样认真，并且与各种背景和能力水平的运动员合作。
They take a first five k as seriously as a tenth 100 miler and work with athletes of all backgrounds and ability levels.
去 microcosmcoaching.com 注册一个免费咨询电话吧。
Head to microcosmcoaching.com and sign up for a free consultation call.
你不需要去赢得教练，你只需要想要一个教练。
You do not have to earn a coach, you just have to want one.
皮质醇是一种由肾上腺产生的类固醇激素。
So cortisol is a steroid hormone that's made by the adrenal glands.
所以那个肾上腺疲劳的说法，你知道，其实有点关联，但也不是完全假的。
So that adrenal fatigue thing, you know, there's connection Not
完全不是假的。
totally fake.
那些肾上腺就像小帽子一样，坐在你的肾脏上面。
And those adrenal glands are like, they're like little caps that sit on the top of your kidneys.
那是一种
That's a kind of a
挺可爱的，我喜欢这个说法，是的。
nice So cute, I like that, yeah.
它通过一个叫做下丘脑-垂体-肾上腺轴的反馈回路运作。
It runs on a feedback loop called the HPA axis.
你之前听说过这个吗？
So have you heard of that before?
听说过，但你能再给我解释一下吗？以防我忘了HPA代表什么。
Yes, but could you define it for me again just in case I forgot what HPA stands for?
下丘脑-垂体-肾上腺轴，就是大脑的下丘脑向垂体发出信号。
The hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, which your brain's hypothalamus signals to the pituitary.
垂体再向肾上腺发出信号，然后肾上腺产生皮质醇。
The pituitary then signals to the adrenals, and then the adrenals make cortisol.
好的。
Okay.
然后皮质醇会循环回来，告诉大脑放松下来。
So cortisol then circles back and tells the brain to ease off of things.
这个关闭开关非常重要。
The off switch matters a lot.
就像恒温器一样。
It's like a thermostat.
对。
Right.
所以这是一个自我调节的系统，这已经让我对那些声称能调节这个本来就很擅长自我调节的东西的外部因素持怀疑态度了。
So it is a self regulating system, which already makes me skeptical of these purported exterior things that are going to regulate this thing that already seems pretty darn good at regulating itself.
没错，没错。
Exactly, exactly.
好。
Okay.
所以，在紧急情况下，皮质醇可以把葡萄糖释放到血液中，让肌肉和大脑有能量，可以升高血压，集中注意力，基本上在紧急情况下会关闭你不需要的功能。
So, in the moment, cortisol can dump glucose into your blood muscles and brain have fuel, can raise your blood pressure, sharpen your focus, turn down whatever you don't need in the middle of an emergency essentially.
对。
Right.
所以如果我在躲避熊，我的大脑会想，天哪，有熊。
So like if I'm running away from a bear, my brain will be like, oh my God, there's a bear.
让我们提高皮质醇水平，这样我的身体就会有更多葡萄糖可用，我就能跑得掉。
Let's raise cortisol levels and my system will have more glucose available so that I can run away from the bear.
对。
Yeah.
而且那一刻你可能不会想到繁衍的事情。
And you're not gonna be thinking about reproduction in that moment, maybe.
说实话，得向任何人致敬。
I mean, honestly, shout out to anyone.
就是说，能在被熊追的时候还想着“我有点兴奋”，那真是挺牛的。
Like, that is kind of a baller to be like, okay, I'm running away from a bear, but I'm like a little bit horny while doing it.
有没有其他人也在这熊追的时候有这种感觉？
Like, anyone else feeling this bear chase?
就我一个人吗？
Just an e?
这熊是不是太可爱了？
Is that bear like so cute or what?
也许我正在排卵期。
Maybe I'm ovulating.
所以，像消化、免疫活动和繁殖这些功能通常会被抑制。
So, the things like digestion, immune activity, and reproduction usually are turned down.
哦，有些听起来确实不太理想。
Oh, well, some of that seems really not ideal.
而且它还是你主要的抗炎信号之一。
And it's also then one of your main anti inflammatory signals.
有意思。
Interesting.
这就是为什么如果你用它的合成版本，嗯，对。
This is why like if you get the synthetic version of it Uh-huh.
比如打一针可的松，就能让炎症平息下来。
Like a cortisone shot, then it calms down.
可的松就是皮质醇。
Cortisone is cortisol.
它是一种类固醇。
It's a steroid.
哇，好吧。
Woah, okay.
我从来没有，真的到现在才把这两件事联系起来。
I've never, I've literally not made that connection till just now.
这又是一件让我觉得事情比单纯说皮质醇不好要复杂得多的事。
Again, that's just one more thing that I think shows how much more nuanced this is than just like cortisol bad.
对，没错。
Yeah, exactly.
一整天里，所有事情都靠同一个系统在运转。
Throughout the day, everything's kind of running on that same system.
所以早上你的皮质醇应该高一些，好让你醒过来。
So in the morning, your cortisol should be high to kinda get Right.
然后到了晚上，它降下来，帮助你入睡。而且如果你完全没有皮质醇，你会死的。
You And then at night, go down help And you then, if you don't have any cortisol, you would die without it.
所以想想看。
So think about it.
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那些无法产生皮质醇的人，其实得了一种病，叫做艾迪生氏病。
People that can't make cortisol have an actual disease called Addison's disease.
那是不是说，你就不会想从熊身边跑开，反而想跟它繁殖，然后消化东西？
So like, does that make it so that you don't wanna run away from the bear, you just wanna like reproduce with it and digest stuff instead?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我们是不是真的……
Are we actually
可能有点搞混了。
Maybe getting too many wires crossed.
好吧。
Okay.
所以基本上，这就是一个自我调节的系统，而且对大多数人来说，这真的不是问题。
So basically, it's like the self regulating system and it seems like for most people it's genuinely not a problem.
但我一直感到沮丧的是，每当你在网上看到这个，它总是被当成坏事来对待。
But I feel like what I keep getting frustrated with is whenever you see it on the internet, it always gets treated like it always bad.
任何皮质醇的波动本质上都是不好的。
That any fluctuation in cortisol is inherently bad.
就像你搞砸了，你让自己压力大了，皮质醇就飙升了。
Like you messed up, you made yourself stressed, your cortisol spiked.
对，而且这就是很多人会去测皮质醇的原因。
Well, and that's where like a lot of people will get cortisol.
他们会去测血液中的皮质醇指标，然后……对。
They'll get a blood marker of cortisol and a Yeah.
血液检查，然后他们会说，这是常见的检查吗？
Blood panel and they'll be like Is that a common test?
它就在像Inside Tracker这样的检测套餐里，哦，标准，哇。
It's on, like, the inside tracker panels, and Oh, standard wow.
难就难在，这只是一个时间点的数据。
The hard thing is, right, that's just one point in time.
在你抽血的时候，如果是我，我会有点紧张。
While you're getting your blood drawn, which like, if you're me, you're gonna be a
有点紧张。
little bit stressed.
对，重点是，急性和慢性是有区别的。
Yeah, main point is, there's a difference between acute and chronic.
没错。
Right.
当我们看皮质醇的升高、下降或者其他变化时，每个人都有自己的节奏，但一般来说，早上应该高一些，晚上应该低一些。
When we're looking at cortisol spike, or drop, or etcetera, and everyone's gonna have their own rhythm, in general, you want it to be higher in the morning, and lower in the evening.
好的。
Cool.
如果皮质醇升高了，然后又降下来，那就说明这个系统在正常工作。
A spike that is coming, and then it's leaving, that means the system is working.
如果它长时间保持在高水平，那系统可能就卡住了。
If it's at the high level for a long period of time, the system might actually be stuck then.
所以，这就像慢性炎症和急性炎症的区别，对吧。
So, it's like the chronic versus acute inflammation Right, component,
而且，我是说，简单来说，适量的就是好的，而错误的量，比如长期偏高，就是不好的，但并不是说任何量都是毒药、有毒、对身体有害的那种情况。
and it's, I mean, to put it super simplistically, the right amount is good, and the wrong amount, which is like chronically elevated, is bad, but it's not this thing where it's like, any amount of it is poison, toxic, bad for your system.
完全正确。
Exactly.
而且它本来就应该，对，再说一遍，如果有事情让你压力大一点或者需要更努力一点，它就应该升上去然后再降下来。
And it's supposed to, yeah, again, if there is something that is causing you to, you know, have a little bit more stress or need to work a little harder, etc, it's supposed to come up and then drop down.
对。
Right.
比如如果你，你知道，如果你真的需要跑过一只熊，或者你需要公开演讲，我觉得我在做上台的事情之前会挺紧张的。
Like if you are, you know, if you are, if you do have to outrun a bear or you do have to like public speak, I feel like I get pretty anxious before I do stand up things.
我觉得我在做喜剧之前皮质醇可能会升高一点，但我不会一直有那种感觉。
Feel like my cortisol probably goes up a little bit before I do comedy, but I don't feel that way all the time.
如果你一直那样，那就是我们说的慢性问题了。
Now, if you were that way all the time, that's like where we're looking at chronic.
对，对。
Right, right.
如果皮质醇长期偏高，那就会对睡眠、血压、血糖这些方面产生实实在在的影响。
Chronic cortisol levels levels high, then we could see real impacts on your sleep, on your blood pressure, higher blood sugar, those sorts of things.
所以说，皮质醇有害这种说法，就像说水对你有害一样。
So, cortisol is bad is kind of like saying water is bad for you.
喝一杯水，对，那没问题。
If you have one glass of water Yeah.
但要是喝四十杯，你可能就麻烦了。
It does keep you alive, but 40 glasses, you might end up in a bad situation.
对，那可就危险了。
Yeah, that's an emergency.
而且我觉得，社交媒体、伪科学，还有那些健康养生和健身行业，一次又一次搞错的就是这个——这些东西其实都有一个“恰到好处”的范围。
And that's, I mean, I feel like time and time again, that's always what like social media and pseudoscience, the wellness and fitness industries get wrong, is that like, there is a Goldilocks zone for this stuff.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对，然后问题就在于，保健品行业就趁机插进来了，对吧？
Yeah, and then the problem is, is the supplement industry dives in, right?
然后他们就说，哦，你的皮质醇水平长期偏高，你需要吃点补充剂。
And they're like, oh, chronic elevation of your cortisol levels, you need a supplement.
然后，你知道，他们又说，那会帮你把整个系统稍微降下来一点，然后就能纠正一切。
And then, you know, they're like, that'll trigger you to turn the whole system down a little bit and it's gonna correct everything.
但这其实忽略了一些关键点。
But that's missing some key pieces here.
对。
Yeah.
所以听起来它好像一天中会波动或者有周期变化。
So it sounds like it sort of fluctuates or cycles throughout the day.
那一天的日常是什么样的？
What does a day in the life
皮质醇的一天是什么样的？
of cortisol look like?
哦，不。
Oh, no.
我们来看看。
Let's walk through.
我喜欢这个。
I like it.
这让我想起九十年代每部电影的开头。
Makes me think of like the beginning of I think every movie in the nineties.
这让我想起那些小卡通，比如《小小姐》。
It makes me think of those those little cartoons like the little miss me.
对，没错，就是这样。
Yes, yeah, exactly.
就像是
It's like
皮质醇的一天。
a day in the life of cortisol.
就像《小小姐皮质醇》，只有我自己。
Like little miss cortisol and it's just me.
所以具体时间因人而异，每个人的昼夜节律都稍有不同，等等，但假设是佐伊。
So times are gonna vary depending on the person, everyone has like a little bit of a different circadian rhythm, etcetera, but let's say it's Zoey.
好的。
Okay.
大约在凌晨四五点，甚至对你来说可能是凌晨三点。
Around four or five in the morning, might even be three in the morning for you.
说实话。
Honestly.
大约在凌晨四五点，皮质醇会自行开始上升，这是自然发生的。
Around four or five in the morning, it's gonna start climbing up on its own, and it does that naturally.
不需要任何压力源。
There's no stressor required.
好的。
Okay.
然后，它在你醒来后三十到四十五分钟达到峰值，这实际上被称为“皮质醇觉醒反应”。
And then, it does peak thirty to forty five minutes after This you wake is actually called the Cortisol Awakening Response.
而且这些术语听起来越来越像医学术语，被各种检测公司使用，他们会说你的皮质醇觉醒反应不正常。
And so, with some of these terms too, think they start to sound more like medical and are used by like different testing companies, and they're like, your cortisol awakening response is off.
我就想，这到底是什么意思？
And I'm like, well, exactly does that mean?
对，对，对。
Right, right, right.
就像，它有个特定的名字，并不意味着我们需要把它当成病态。
Like just because it has a specific name doesn't mean it's something that we need to like, pathologize.
是的。
Yes.
这个峰值很重要，因为它能让你一天都精神饱满，对吧？
It is important to have that spike, because then that's gonna get you going for the day, right?
对。
Right.
让你起床，动起来，然后它应该逐渐下降，在晚上降到最低，这样你的褪黑素才能……嗯。
Get you out of bed, get you moving, and then it's supposed to drift down, and kind of bottom out at night, so then your melatonin Mhmm.
然后褪黑素就能接管，帮你入睡。
Can take over and help you with sleep.
不错。
Cool.
这种起伏的曲线就是它的意义所在。
That's kinda the rise and fall shape is the whole point of it.
对。
Yeah.
所以当医生真正正确地检测皮质醇时，他们看的是全天曲线的形状，而不是单独一个数值。
So when a doctor actually tests cortisol properly, they're reading the shape of the curve across the day, not one number on its own.
或者说，这才是正确的解读方式。
Or that's how it's supposed to be read.
这挺有意思的。
This is cool.
就像你说的，天然的皮质醇在一天中变化很大，在午夜睡眠中段，它的水平可能比早晨峰值低四到十五倍，这挺好的。
Like natural cortisol, like you said, it really varies throughout the day and it can drop to levels roughly four to 15 times lower at like midnight in the middle of your sleep than it does at that morning peak, which is great.
再说，这可不是什么细微的波动。
Again, that's not like a subtle fluctuation.
对。
Yeah.
这是一个相当大的波动，自然发生，因为我们需要在不同的时间有不同的感受。
That's a pretty big wave that occurs naturally because we need to feel different times.
明白。
Mhmm.
而且你知道，有时候你想集中精力，去做你的公开演讲之类的事情，有时候你又想放松下来，好去吃顿饭或者干脆去睡觉。
And you know, you there are times where you want to sort of like lock in and do your public speaking things and then there's times you want to lock out so that you can eat a meal or go the fuck to sleep.
明白。
Mhmm.
那你觉得健康文化是从哪里开始出问题的？
So where do you feel like things start to go awry with wellness culture?
就像，我们是从哪里开始误解这些信息的？
Like where do we start losing things in translation here?
就是早上一起床的时候。
Right in the morning.
天哪。
Oh my God.
就是刚
Right when
醒来的时候。
you wake up.
就像数学里你得展示解题步骤一样，健康产业最容易出问题的地方，往往就在解题过程的第三步或第四步。
It's like, you know, how in math you have to like show your work and whenever you look at where the wellness industry gets lost, it's in the third or fourth step of the math problem.
比如，天哪，你数字都写错了。
Like, oh my god, you wrote the wrong numbers down.
你在
What are
干什么呢？
you doing?
如果你每天早上第一件事就是喝咖啡，而且你还没瘦下来，那这段话你一定要听。
If the first thing you do every single morning is consume coffee and you are not losing weight, this is something you need to hear.
当你摄入咖啡因时，它会引发皮质醇的短期升高。
When you consume caffeine, it triggers a short term rise in cortisol.
问题在于，如果你的皮质醇一整天都居高不下，这通常是因为你空腹依赖咖啡因。
The problem is when your cortisol stays high all day, this usually happens when you rely on caffeine on an empty stomach.
你整天都在喝咖啡。
You consume it all throughout the day.
长期高皮质醇实际上会让你在腹部囤积脂肪，持续时间更长、程度更高，还会减慢你的新陈代谢。
Chronic high cortisol actually makes you store body fat in your midsection for a longer and higher period of time and slows down your metabolism.
如果你想让咖啡因真正帮助你减脂，请关注我，继续看第二部分。
If you want your caffeine to actually help you with fat loss, follow and stick around for part two.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，很多关于修复皮质醇的内容，都是早上刚醒来的时候讲的。
I mean, a ton of the fix your cortisol content is right in the morning.
早上不要看屏幕，要立刻晒到太阳，而且先别喝咖啡。
You need to don't look at a screen, you need to get sunlight immediately, and then also don't have coffee.
你得等一会儿，才能快点喝到咖啡。
You have to wait a little bit in order to Quick get your coffee
顺便给我们的Patreon打个广告，我写了一篇完整的博客文章，专门讲早上推迟喝咖啡这个误区，大家可以去看看。
plug for our Patreon, I wrote an entire blog post exactly about the morning coffee delay myth, so check that out.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Amazing.
但问题是，对吧？
Here's the thing though, right?
早晨的光线是好事。
Morning light is a good thing.
嗯嗯。
Uh-huh.
也许不是一醒来就每隔五秒看一次手机，对吧。
Maybe not looking, checking at your phone like every five seconds the minute you wake Yep.
你一醒来，我的皮质醇最不需要的就是关心今天霍尔木兹海峡发生了什么。
The second you wake up, the thing my cortisol doesn't need is what's up in the Strait Of Hormuz today?
咱们看看那个吧。
Let's check-in on that.
J.
What's J.
D.
D.
万斯在干嘛？
Vance up to?
那从来就没帮过我的皮质醇。
That has like never once helped my cortisol.
没错。
Exactly.
所以，这不是说我们就不该关注它。
So, it's not a thing that we shouldn't pay attention to.
对。
Right.
只是在健康养生这个圈子里被过度强调了，比如
It's just overemphasized in the wellness context, Like
你不会因为没在清晨第一缕阳光照到山谷时，做一次正念晨间散步就死掉的。
you're not going to die if you don't, you know, get a light mindfulness morning walk at the, you know, first rays of sun crest the Valley Wall or whatever.
你需要那种疯狂的日常流程才能真正启动并运转起来。
You need this crazy routine to actually get you going and functioning.
没错。
Exactly.
我需要一个41步的晨间流程。
I need a 41 step morning routine.
你的有多少步？
How many steps is yours?
起床，下床。
Wake up, get out of bed.
就这样。
That's it.
还需要更多吗？
Should there be more?
我就在想，别人都做些什么呢？
I'm like, I kind of wonder, like, what do people do?
我煮咖啡，吃早餐。
I make coffee and I eat breakfast.
这算吗？
Does that count?
我是说，我
I mean, I
就这样。
That is it.
这就是全部了。
That is the whole thing.
我和别人一起旅行过，他们说要花一个小时。
I've been on trips with people where they're like, it takes an hour.
真的吗？
Really?
所以我们刚一起旅行，我觉得我们俩都挺快的，准备出发也很快。
So we just went on a trip together, and I feel like we're both pretty fast and getting ready to go.
是的，我们是的。
Yeah, we are.
对，也许太快了。
Yeah, maybe too fast.
可能，说实话，
Probably, honestly like,
哇，那些人不是
woah, those people are not
会收拾好的。
gonna put together.
你看起来就像刚被熊追过一样。
You look like you were just chased by a bear.
也许你该多分泌点皮质醇。
Maybe you should have more cortisol.
不，我，对，对我来说，我日常的重要部分就是咖啡，然后我会听《纽约时报》的《每日》节目。
No, I'm, yeah, for me, the big part of my routine is coffee, and then I listen to the New York Times, The Daily.
哦，不错。
Oh, nice.
我每天必须从迈克尔·巴巴罗开始。
I have to start my day with Michael Barbaro.
那，那挺好的。
That's, that's good.
对。
Yeah.
这是个好习惯。
Good routine to be in.
我得带狗出去走走。
I gotta go outside with the dogs.
没错。
That's right.
那确实挺好的，就像那种小小的散步。
That's a really, that is nice, like having those little Little mini walk.
小小的散步。
Little mini walk.
因为呼吸新鲜空气、晒晒太阳确实有好处，但要说这是进化上必须的、让你保持最佳状态的东西，那就不太对了。
Because like getting fresh air and sunlight is good, but it's not correct to say that it's like evolutionarily something you absolutely need to function at your prime.
我特别讨厌深冬的时候，太阳还没完全升起来，我冻得要死，真不想出去遛狗。
I do hate it in the middle of winter, when the sun's not completely up and I'm freezing, I do not wanna go out and take the dogs on a walk.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好。
Okay.
所以，我觉得另一个我经常听到的就是皮质醇脸，对吧？
So, I think another one that I hear about all the freaking time is cortisol face, Right?
就像我在TikTok上经常看到的那种。
Like, there's something I see on TikTok all the time.
当你看到那样的身材时，你应该想到高皮质醇。
When you see a body like that, you should think high cortisol.
你的大脑总是会选择生存而不是繁殖。
Your brain will always choose survival over reproduction.
如果你的皮质醇水平很高，你就无法解决问题。
If your cortisol level is high, you can't fix the problem.
月亮脸、水牛背和不想长肉的地方长肉，还有睡不着、总是压力大、超级累的问题。
Problem of moon face and buffalo hump and poundage where you don't want, where you can't sleep, you're always stressed, you're super tired.
要做到这一点，你需要磷脂酰丝氨酸。
To do that, you need phosphatidylserine.
再加上南非醉茄，Just Ingredients 的肾上腺复合物里就含有这两种成分，这就是为什么它是我最喜欢的降皮质醇补充剂。
When you add an ashwagandha to it, then Just Ingredients have both of those in their adrenal complex, which is the reason why it's my favorite cortisol reducing supplement.
就像那些前后对比照片，那些女孩们在健康之旅中消除脸部浮肿，然后就有这种说法，说皮质醇会让你的脸一直浮肿，而且这既可以作为诊断工具，也可以从网上的某个考特尼那里学到。
It's like these before and after photos of these like girlies who've been on their wellness journeys to de puff their faces and there's this idea that cortisol makes your face like perpetually puffy and that that is something that you can a, use as a diagnostic tool and b, learn from Courtney whatever on the internet.
皮质醇脸其实是借用了一个真实存在的概念。
Cortisol face is borrowing from an actual thing.
它的临床名称叫“满月脸”。
So the clinical name is Moon Face.
哦。
Oh.
那听起来……
And that's Oh, that sounds
更假了。
even faker.
怎么真名反而更假呢？
Like how is the real name faker?
好吧，抱歉。
Okay, sorry.
对，我知道。
Yeah, know.
给月亮脸命名的那个人，我们得好好琢磨琢磨这个名字。
Whoever named Moonface, we gotta get, we gotta workshop this.
我有空。
I'm available.
你得跟给库欣综合征命名的人聊聊。
You gotta talk to whoever named Cushing's syndrome.
对，或者库欣病。
Yeah, Or Cushing's disease.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种罕见的、长期存在的身体状况，会一直伴随你。
Which is a rare, long term condition that you have going on in your body.
不是说你周一压力大了一次，现在就变成月亮脸了。
It's not just one time on a Monday you got stressed and you have moon face now.
不是说，哦，这个人可能有点焦虑，可能生活上有点压力。
It's not like, oh, this person's maybe a little bit anxious, maybe things in life are a little bit overwhelming.
这是一种确诊的疾病，你得没得自己心里清楚。
This is a diagnosed illness and you fucking know when you have it.
对。
Yeah.
而不是说，我不知道，我拿TikTok或者BuzzFeed的测试来给自己诊断。
Rather than, I don't know, maybe I'll use TikTok or this BuzzFeed quiz to diagnose myself.
如果
If
你真的长期持续皮质醇水平过高，连续好几个月，那确实可能导致面部浮肿。
you really had long term sustained high cortisol for months upon end, it could potentially cause some facial swelling.
好的。
Okay.
但我觉得很多时候我们在网上看到的所谓“皮质醇脸”，并不是我们说的那种情况。
But I don't think a lot of times when we're looking online and they're talking about Cortisol Face, that's what we're talking about,
对，对，就是这样。
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
好的。
Okay.
实际上人们遇到的情况其实挺普通的。
What's actually happening to people is kind of boring.
唉，真没劲。
Ugh, lame.
如果你有压力，通常你会想吃咸的东西。
If you're stressed, oftentimes, you do get cravings for things like salty foods.
咸的东西，还有高碳水的东西，你可能会吃这些，不是说这有什么不好。
Salty foods, carb heavy foods, maybe you eat those things, not saying that's a bad thing.
对。
Right.
但是，如果你摄入的钠含量高，碳水化合物也多，可能会导致更多的体液潴留。
But then, if you have high levels of sodium coming in, more carbohydrate, might have more fluid retention.
水分可能首先储存在脸部。
Water can be stored in the face first.
特别是如果你像我一样趴着睡。
Especially if you're like me and you sleep face down.
好。
Okay.
所以我觉得另一个我经常听到的，尤其是对于围绝经期或绝经后的运动员来说，就是皮质醇肚子。
So I feel like another big one I hear again and again and especially for athletes that are peri or or post menopausal is cortisol belly.
如果你是35岁以上的女性，不幸的是，高皮质醇可能就是问题所在。
If you're a woman over 35, unfortunately, high cortisol could be the problem.
你的肚子可能是你最先长胖的地方，也是最后瘦下来的地方。
Your belly might be the first place you gain weight and the last place you lose weight.
高皮质醇实际上会让你同时掉肌肉和长脂肪。
High cortisol can actually make you lose muscle and gain fat at the same time.
所以这里有一些你现在就能做的事情，帮助自然降低皮质醇。
So here are things that you can do right now to help reduce cortisol naturally.
吃黑巧克力。
Eat dark chocolate.
选择可可含量70%或更高的黑巧克力。
Choose dark chocolate that is 70% cacao or higher.
黑巧克力含有镁、纤维、抗氧化剂等营养素。
Dark chocolate has nutrients like magnesium, fiber, antioxidants.
这确实有助于支持你的身体，可能降低皮质醇。
This actually helps support your body and may reduce cortisol.
当然，只吃一小块，不是整条。
Just of course, one small piece, not the entire bar.
女士们，像往常一样，如果觉得这个有用，就关注我吧。
Ladies, as always, if you found this useful, give me a follow.
哦，这个让我想尖叫。
Oh, this one makes me wanna scream.
我一次又一次听到和看到的是，皮质醇会让你发胖，而且你的身体基本上会把脂肪囤积在腰腹部。
The thing that I hear and see again and again is that cortisol makes you gain weight and that your body essentially hoards it around your midsection.
如果我们看看实际情况，确实有一些潜在的真实情况。
If we look at what's going on, there is something potentially real going on.
对。
Yeah.
你知道，如果你看像库欣综合征这样的疾病，或者长期服用高剂量类固醇，身体确实会把脂肪转移到腰腹部。
You know, if you are looking at something like Cushing's disease, if you're taking long term high dose steroids, the body does actually shift fat towards the midsection.
好的。
Okay.
所以，这个机制实际上是真实的，比如内脏脂肪，也就是器官周围的脂肪，确实比其他部位的脂肪有更多的皮质醇受体。
And so, the mechanism's actually real, like the visceral fat or the fat around your organs does carry more cortisol receptors than other places where fat is not in the body.
库欣综合征实际上是一个很好的证据，表明皮质醇可以驱动中心性肥胖。
Cushing's is actually a really good evidence that cortisol can drive central fat.
对。
Mhmm.
但话说回来，那是在临床层面，比如你确诊了某种疾病。
But again, that's like at a clinical level, like you have a diagnosed illness.
是的，所以对于皮质醇正常但生活压力大的人来说，说皮质醇直接让肚子变大，这个说法其实没什么依据。
Yeah, so for a person with normal cortisol and a stressful life, the idea that cortisol's directly inflating your stomach isn't really well supported.
所以没有所谓的“皮质醇肚子”。
So no cortisol belly.
没有“皮质醇肚子”。
No cortisol belly.
说实话，我有点好奇，因为我们在讲更年期那期节目里聊过，当雌激素等其他激素发生变化时，确实会导致身体成分的改变。
Now I would wonder, to be honest, I am curious because we did talk about this in our menopause episode where when we have shifting other hormones, like our estrogen etcetera, then that can cause shifts in body composition.
没错。
Right.
所以我在想，人们是不是把激素变化——不是皮质醇——和这个混淆了。对。
And so, I'm wondering if people are conflating this idea of changing hormones, not cortisol Yeah.
但把激素变化说成是皮质醇，比尔。
But changing hormones with cortisone and calling it cortisol, Bill.
你知道
You know
什么意思？
what mean?
我在Instagram上甚至看到过很直白的说法，说不要举重物，因为那样会让皮质醇水平飙升，然后导致腹部发胖。
I've seen it even as bluntly put on Instagram is don't lift heavy weights because then you will spike cortisol levels and that'll force you to gain weight around your belly.
所以我真的见过Reddit上的女性讨论怎么锻炼才能不长肚子上的肉。
So like I've literally seen like women on Reddit and whatnot discussing how to work out in a way that won't make them gain belly fat.
很多事情都很复杂，尤其是如果你处于围绝经期或绝经后，生活中可能还有其他压力因素，不仅仅是这个激素让你在腰腹部囤积脂肪。
A lot of these things are complicated and especially if you're peri or postmenopausal, there could be other things going on in your life that lead to stress and it's not just this hormone is making you hoard fat around your midsection.
你生活的整体状况，比如睡眠不足、感觉不舒服、事情太多，这些可能也会改变你的饮食方式和食量，这些因素比皮质醇更根本。
The overall context of your life and not sleeping and not feeling well and just having too much on your plate, that might also be changing the way that you eat and how much you eat, things that are way upstream of Mhmm.
所谓的“皮质醇肚子”。
Cortisol belly, quote unquote.
没错。
Exactly.
所以，我觉得你的意思是，这有点让人困惑。
So, it gets a little bit confusing, I think is what you're saying.
是的。
Yes.
所以，我的意思是，你可能长期处于压力中，然后这会破坏你的睡眠，进而刺激你的食欲和渴望，改变你吃多少，减少你的活动量，所以这可能和那些有关。对。
So, I mean, you could be chronically stressed, and then that wrecks your sleep, which drives your appetite and cravings, and changes how much you eat, and cuts your activity, so it might be related to those Yeah.
所以事情就变得纠缠不清，我觉得人们想要一个简单的答案，他们就说，是皮质醇。
So it's like things get tangled up and I think people want that simple answer they're like, it's cortisol.
对。
Right.
所以他们就这样想了。
And so that's where they go.
因为那样的话，理论上你就可以把它扼杀在摇篮里，说，我要吃这个皮质醇补充剂，降低我的皮质醇，从而减掉肚子上的脂肪。
Because then that makes it so that you can theoretically nip it in the bud and say, I'm gonna this cortisol supplement, lower my cortisol, therefore, get rid of belly fat.
对。
Yeah.
事情没那么简单，也没那么直接。
And things just aren't that simple, aren't that direct.
嗯。
Mhmm.
本期节目由goodr赞助播出，这是唯一一个我主动买过不止一次的太阳镜品牌。
This episode is brought to you by goodr, makers of the only sunglasses I've ever bought on purpose more than once.
我对眼镜的要求其实很简单。
My requirements for eyewear are actually pretty simple.
运动的时候能稳稳待在脸上，能保护眼睛，而且不会让我看起来像个未来警察。
Stay on my face while my body's in motion, protect my eyes, and do not make me look like a cop from the future.
你会惊讶地发现，能同时满足这三点的太阳镜真的很少。
You would be surprised how few sunglasses can accomplish all three.
但goodr就能做到。
But goodr can.
它们起价只要25美元，几乎没什么重量，而且出汗的时候也不会滑落或从脸上掉下来。
They start at just $25, weigh basically nothing, and they don't bounce or slide down your face when you're sweaty.
它们还是偏光镜片。
They're also polarized.
它们功能性强，适合各种出汗的运动，而且戴起来特别好玩。
They're functional enough for anything sweaty and they're seriously fun to wear.
看来，性能和趣味是可以共存的。
Apparently, performance and whimsy can coexist.
我现在日常戴的那副是circle g系列，颜色叫“谢谢”。
My everyday pair right now is the circle g's and a color called thanks.
它们是复古款，可爱又运动风，基本什么都能搭。
They're vintage, which is cute, sporty, and goes with basically everything.
当我想看起来更迷人一点，像地中海公爵夫人那样，我就戴pano g系列和“皇家无花果约会”那款。
And when I want to look a little more glamorous like a Mediterranean duchess, I wear the pano g's and royal fig rendezvous.
运动不一定要穿得像海豹突击队一样。
Exercise doesn't need to involve getting dressed like a navy seal.
有时候你只是想保护眼睛，同时看起来像个性感的小无花果。
Sometimes you just wanna protect your eyes while looking like a sexy little fig.
我内心丰富多样。
I contain multitudes.
每副眼镜都不到40美元，所以你可以买几副，就算在租的车里丢了一副，也不会变成个人或财务上的悲剧。
Every pair is under $40, so you can own a couple and lose one in a rental car without it becoming a personal or financial tragedy.
去goodr.com/yds下单，首副眼镜立减10美元。
Go to goodr.com/yds to get $10 off your first pair.
网址是goodr.com/yds。
That's goodr.com/yds.
我们回来了。
We are so back.
或者至少，Tailwind Nutrition的蓝莓柠檬味耐力补给回来了。
Or at least blueberry lemonade endurance fuel is back from Tailwind Nutrition.
这是让你的锻炼从“完了”变成“我们回来了”的最大秘诀。
This is the single biggest way to take your workout from it's so over to we are so back.
懂的人自然懂。
If you know, you know.
如果你还不了解，Tailwind的耐力燃料就是把碳水化合物和水分装在一瓶里，而且味道超棒。
And if you don't, Tailwind's endurance fuel is carbohydrates and hydration in one bottle and it tastes amazing.
我喝掉的量多得吓人，但我完全没喝腻。
I have gone through an embarrassing amount of this stuff and I am absolutely not sick of it.
所以，与其塞满九种咀嚼片、能量胶、冲剂、盐丸，还有你为了熬过夏天训练硬塞进去的各种东西，不如换成Tailwind的蓝莓柠檬味耐力燃料。
So instead of packing nine kinds of chews, gels, mixes, salt pills, and whatever else you shoved into your workout to make summer training tolerable, swap it out for Tailwind's Blueberry Lemonade Endurance Fuel.
这是你夏天训练最完美的全能燃料，还含电解质。
It's your perfect all in one summer fuel with electrolytes.
去tailwind.com，用优惠码YOURDIET20，首单立减20。
Head to tailwind.com and use code YOURDIET20 for 20 off your first order.
网址是tailwindnutrition.com，优惠码YOURDIET20。
That's Tailwind Nutrition code YOURDIET20 at tailwindnutrition.com.
快去抢蓝莓柠檬味的，不然我就全买光了。
Go get the blueberry lemonade before I buy it all.
说真的。
Seriously.
我觉得这个说法总是特别针对女性，尤其是随着年龄增长的女性的。
I feel like this one is always aimed particularly again at like women and especially at women as they age.
而且我觉得这又是我们常见的那种双重套路：先拿普通的减肥饮食法——我们很多人已经被训练得能识别并拒绝它了——然后把它包装成激素健康。
And I think it's the same sort of one two punch that we always see is that it takes plain weight loss dieting which like a lot of us have now been trained to recognize and reject and then it sort of dresses it up as hormone health.
你不是在节食，你是在平衡激素；突然完全戒掉碳水不是节食，而是在降低皮质醇。但本质上还是同样的限制，只是用了一种更符合大众文化的说法来包装。
You're not dieting, you're balancing your hormones and suddenly totally cutting out carbs isn't a diet, it's lowering your cortisol but it's the same restriction just like dressed up with this more culturally accessible sort of language.
而我觉得最让我震惊的是，当你在谷歌上输入“皮质醇肚子”时，排在前面的结果——
And I think that the thing that really blows my mind about this is when you type cortisol belly into Google, the top Oh hits
天哪。
my god.
全都是联盟营销链接，全是补剂。
Are all affiliate links, all supplements.
对吧？你也是这么做的吧？
Idea Did you do this?
是的。
Yes.
现在，哦，那挺吓人的。
And now Oh that's scary.
算法推荐了10种针对内脏脂肪的方法，还附带了一个皮质醇方案，以及你可以服用的专有补充剂。而且，购买产品的途径明显比阅读研究论文的途径多得多。
Algorithm is 10 ways to target your visceral fat and it's got this cortisol protocol and then the proprietary supplements you can take and the fact that like there's significantly more pathways to buying a thing than to reading a research paper.
我觉得这是一个非常有力的数据点。
Think is extremely an extremely good data point.
这个节目的最终目的不是教人们如何平坦小腹，但我确实认为，重要的是要回到这样一个事实：这个行业已经决定，女性的腹部是我们必须对抗压力的战场。
The end all be all of the show isn't to teach people to flatten their stomachs but I do think that it's like really important to come back to the fact industry that has decided that women's, you know, mid sections are the battleground on which we must fight stress.
这个想法也是，嗯，你应该先解决你的压力问题，因为我不知道，也许我们应该废除晚期资本主义，因为它摧毁了女性的生活，以及所有承受晚期资本主义下游影响的人。
This idea also that well, you should probably fix your stress because I don't know, maybe we should dismantle late stage capitalism in so far that it destroys the life of women and to all people who bear the brunt of the downstream impacts of late stage capitalism.
但是，我们作为一个文化群体，不能进行那样的对话，所以我们只能说，别长胖。
But like, we as a culture can't have that conversation so we're like, don't gain weight.
对。
Yep.
归根结底就是别长胖，我拒绝接受这个前提，好像这是最重要的事。早上皮质醇飙升，那又是什么让它降下来的呢？
The thing that always comes down to is don't gain weight and I reject that premise as like being the You most important thing in the have the spike in the morning, what brings it back down?
你怎么才能回到稳定状态，或者那个最终可能入睡的状态？
How do you get back to stasis or that place where you can maybe eventually fall asleep?
希望是恢复。
Hopefully, recovery.
好。
Okay.
如果你想要真正的恢复，你需要一杯皮质醇鸡尾酒。
If you want real recovery, you need a cortisol cocktail.
皮质醇，好的。
Cortisol, okay.
什么是皮质醇鸡尾酒？
What is a cortisol cocktail?
我听说过它叫肾上腺鸡尾酒。
I've heard it called an adrenal cocktail.
天哪，TGI Fridays 有卖这个吗？
Oh my god, can you get it at TGI Fridays?
有可能。
Potentially.
是不是还配个小伞，装在那种提基杯里？
Does it come with a little umbrella in it and like a in a tiki glass?
我在想那些餐厅里会不会有叫这个名字的东西。
I wonder if they have anything named that at these at some of these restaurants.
我敢肯定有一款叫“皮质醇飙升”或者“腹部轰炸机”之类的。
I'm sure there's one called like the Cortisol Spike or like the Midsection Blaster.
它里面有橙汁，我不确定“腹部轰炸机”会不会加橙汁，因为大家都怕糖。
It has orange juice, which I'm not sure if the midsection blaster would have orange juice People in are scared of sugar.
对。
Yes.
那关于鸡尾酒这块，我得告诉你个坏消息了。
Well, I have a bad news for you on the cocktail front then.
如果你怕糖但又爱喝鸡尾酒，那你的日子会很难过。
If you are scared of sugar but love cocktails, life is gonna be very challenging for you.
是的，确实。
Yes, is.
橙汁、椰子水、一小撮盐，有时候还加点镁。
Orange juice, coconut water, a pinch of salt and sometimes magnesium.
好的。
Okay.
对我来说，这就算电解质饮料了。
Which I would consider to me that's an electrolyte drink.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
我是说，听起来好恶心。
Mean, that sounds so gross.
说实话，这听起来就像我晚上出去玩，喝得烂醉回家，然后从冰箱里找出四种最无聊的食材拼在一起。
That honestly sounds like if I came home from a night out on the town just like wasted and put together the four most boring ingredients I could find in my fridge.
其实，你可以把佳得乐倒进红酒杯里喝，完全一样。
Instead, you could put a Gatorade in a wine glass and drink Exactly.
这听起来像是格温妮丝·帕特洛在自己嗨翻天的时候会给自己做的东西。
This sounds like something that Gwyneth Paltrow would make for herself when she was high as hell.
而且，没有任何已发表的研究，真是令人震惊，能证明这种饮料能真正影响你的皮质醇水平。
And there is no published research, shocking, that shows that this drink moves your actual cortisol.
“困倦女孩鸡尾酒”。
The sleepy girl mocktail.
通常就是那种放一点酸樱桃汁的东西，然后就说，嗯，当然，它可能有助于，你知道的。
It's usually these things where it'll be one little tart cherry juice and it's like, well, sure, like it can maybe lead to, you know
我是说，椰子水里确实含有电解质。
I mean, coconut water has electrolytes in it.
对。
Right.
所以，是的。
So yeah.
太好了。
Great.
就像电解质，很棒。
Like electrolytes, awesome.
但这也并不会真正调节你的皮质醇。
But also, this is not going to hack your cortisol.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
它可能会有帮助，特别是如果你脱水了，或者你一天摄入的能量或电解质不足。
It might help if especially if you're dehydrated or you aren't getting enough fuel in or haven't gotten in enough electrolytes for the day.
我们总是喜欢那种可以通过喝点特调饮品或者补充剂来解决问题的想法，但可能其实只是，姑娘，你需要喝水。
We always love the idea that we can mock tail our way out of something or like supplement stack it but it might just be like, girl, you need water.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
或者吃点东西也行。
Or also food.
是的。
Yes.
早上喝咖啡的时候，给自己一个仪式感，哪怕只是花三分钟为自己做一件小事，就算只是榨一杯难喝的橙汁也行。
With my morning coffee, having that ritual of I'm going to take three minutes out of my day to do one nice thing for myself even if it is make orange juice that sucks ass.
如果这就是你犒劳自己的方式，那你的皮质醇可能确实有点不稳定。
If that's what you're doing to treat yourself, probably your cortisol is a little touch and go.
对。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
所以这个倒霉的皮质醇之旅的最后一站，就是当压力峰值一直不停、根本没有恢复的时候会发生什么。
So the last sort of stop on this cursed cortisol journey is what happens when the spikes just don't stop and there's no recovery.
我们不再有那些高峰和低谷，就像一条平直的紧张线。
So we stop getting those peaks and valleys and it's just like a flat line of stress.
我觉得很多关于激素平衡的想法就是从这里开始的。
And I feel like this is where a lot of these ideas of hormone balancing start to come up.
那我们在那里看到什么呢？
So what do we see there?
我们说的是，让大家知道一下，我们其实是在说那些补充剂。
And we're talking, just so everyone knows, we're kind of talking about the supplements here.
对。
Yeah.
这是你的皮质醇应急包。
This is your cortisol emergency kit.
这对女性尤其重要。
This is especially important for women.
皮质醇高不只是让你压力大，它还会让你的孕酮水平下降，这就是你睡不着的原因。
High cortisol doesn't just stress you out, it tanks your progesterone, which is why you can't sleep.
而一旦你睡不着，第二天你的皮质醇就会飙得更高。
And the second you can't sleep, your cortisol spikes even higher the next day.
然后你就会更想吃甜的和咸的东西。
Then you crave more sugary and salty foods.
接着就会出现肠胃问题。
Then you get the stomach issues.
这是个恶性循环，而且因为我们的激素和它相互作用，对女性的影响更大。
It's a loop, and it hits women even harder because of how our hormones interact with it.
首先就是维生素C。
First up is vitamin c.
每天一千毫克，坚持两个月，皮质醇能降低43%。
A thousand milligrams a day for two months cut cortisol by 43%.
还有磷脂酰丝氨酸，当然还有甘氨酸镁，因为没有哪个医疗专业人士教过你怎么用补剂来降低慢性高皮质醇，所以我来教你们。
Phosphatylserine and, of course, magnesium glycinate because no health care professional has taught you how to lower your chronically high cortisol with supplements, so I will.
说实话，这里面很多都是营销手段。
It's honestly a lot of marketing.
真正的研究只有一点点，真的只是一点点。
There's a tiny bit of real research, but a tiny bit.
嗯哼。
Uh-huh.
关于南非醉茄，有一些小型试验表明它有助于平衡下丘脑-垂体-肾上腺轴。
Ashwagandha has some small trials suggesting that it helps balance out the HPA axis.
镁有一些小规模、长期的试验，暗示它可能降低皮质醇水平。
Magnesium has some small, long term trials hinting it might lower cortisol.
但这些试验的问题在于，它们规模小、时间短，而且需要重复验证，之后才能真正有人在此基础上有所建树。
But the problem with these trials is that they are small, short and need replication before anyone's gonna really be able to build anything off of them.
所以你的结论不是我们都需要猛吃南非醉茄和镁。
So your takeaway isn't we all need to be snorting ashwagandha and magnesium.
而是我们需要更多的研究。
It's like we need more research.
也许将来有一天，把这些东西纳入饮食会有帮助，但现在我们还不能这么说。
Maybe down the road, it will come to pass that integrating these things into your diet is helpful, but right now we can't really say that.
对，说实话，多吃点含镁的食物吧。
Right, and honestly, go eat some more magnesium containing foods.
这个我没意见。
I have no problems with that.
我们真的需要大剂量补充镁吗？
Do we need be macro dosing on magnesium?
也许不需要。
Maybe not.
是的。
Yeah.
那么，皮质醇会不会反过来呢？
So, can cortisol go the other way?
比如，你的皮质醇会不会长期过低？
Like, can your cortisol be too chronically low?
就是说，你会不会彻底垮掉？
Like, can you bottom out?
你会不会把自己耗到极限？没错。
Can you kind of burn yourself Exactly.
彻底耗尽。
To the ground.
你经历过那种状态。
You've been been there.
我确实觉得自己经历过。
I do feel like I have been here.
回想以前的自己，尤其是做电视节目那会儿，每周都要往返于前山脉，我就想，我怎么还活着？
Like when I think back on previous versions of myself, especially when I was working on the TV show and commuting to and from the front range every week, I'm like, how am I still alive?
说实话，在I 70上开车绝对是地球上最可怕的事情之一。
Honestly, being on I 70 is definitely one of the few things on planet earth.
如果让我选择逃命躲开饥饿的动物，还是在雪天开车上I 70，我每次都会选逃命，毫不犹豫。
Given the choice between escaping a hungry animal and driving on I 70 in the snow, hungry animal, every time, hands down.
确实可以降低，但我觉得这和网上说的不太一样。
It can definitely be lowered, but I would say it's different than what people are making it sound like online.
好的。
Okay.
所以，如果你真的有皮质醇缺乏，那叫艾迪生氏病，这种病很罕见也很严重，你需要去看医生。
So, if you have a real cortisol deficiency, that's something called Addison's Disease, and it's rare and serious, and you need to go to a medical doctor.
对。
Yes.
如果你属于这种情况的话。
If that is you.
所以这种亚临床的概念，就是说你长期压力大但还没到需要治疗的程度，其实并不存在。
So like, this subclinical idea that you are chronically stressed but not in a medical way, not really a thing.
没错。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
所以，研究现在有点关注的是，如果皮质醇曲线变得平缓，或者稍微钝一点，而不是像你之前说的白天和夜晚之间差异很大的那种情况。
So, the thing that the research is kinda getting into a little bit is if there's a flattened curve, or like a little bit more blunt one versus when you looked up the big differences between during the day and at night.
你早上醒来时不会得到那个巨大的峰值。
You're not getting that mega dose when you wake up.
曲线变得平缓一些。
Flattening out a little bit more.
但这并不是说你的肾上腺没有能量了。
This isn't like your adrenals don't have any fuel though.
对。
Yeah.
所以这就是肾上腺疲劳理论所利用的点，他们就说，哦，没有能量了。
So that's kinda where they, in the adrenal fatigue, they play off of that, they're like, oh, no more fuel.
对。
Right.
但实际上，你的反馈回路确实会因为反复或持续的压力而磨损，所以它会削弱这种效果。
But, it's something where, like, your feedback loop does get worn down by repeated or sustained stress, So it kinda dampens the effect.
而且他们确实在经历过战区的人身上看到了这种情况。哦。
And they do see this with people that have been in war zones Oh.
患有创伤后应激障碍的人。
With PTSD.
哇。
Wow.
好的。
Okay.
从实际层面来说，假设我就是一个普通人。
Zooming out on a practical level, let's pretend for a hot second that I'm a normal person.
请耐心听我说。
Bear with me.
你是个普通人。
You're a normal person.
发挥你的想象力吧。
Harness your imagination.
让我好好想想，然后——
Let me think really And
想象一下，如果可能的话，我有点焦虑。
imagine if you can, that I'm a little bit anxious.
看看你能不能想象出这个世界。
See if you can imagine this world.
我会的。
I will.
怎么想象？
How?
你得好好想想
You gotta think
这件事。
hard about this.
我知道。
I know.
你会想，那会是什么样子呢？
You're like, what would that look like?
我怎么能真正知道我的皮质醇是不是偏高？
How would I actually know if my cortisol is high?
就是高得离谱，高得没好处那种？
Like too high, unhelpfully high?
那到底意味着什么？
What would that even mean?
真有这么回事吗？
Is that a thing?
嗯，我觉得问题就出在这里，对吧？
Well, think that's where the problems come in, right?
如果你用那些健康术语，比如浮肿、脑雾、疲劳，这些可能指向很多不同的原因。
If you use those wellness terms like, you're puffy, you have brain fog, you're tired, those could point to many things.
对。
Yeah.
其实什么都有可能。
Anything, really.
对。
Yeah.
如果你的皮质醇真的高得离谱，比如库欣综合征和满月脸那种，医生一眼就能看出来，对吧？
If you have a genuine cortisol amount that's super high, and we're looking at Cushing's and Moon Face, that's something that a doctor's going to recognize, right?
你可能会出现肌肉无力、容易淤青、高血压，这可不是简单的‘哎呀，我现在好累’那种感觉。
You can have muscle weakness, easy bruising, high blood pressure, it's not just like a, oh, I'm exhausted right now.
我只是感觉有点不对劲。
I'm feeling a little off.
单次皮质醇读数偏高并不能真正作为诊断依据。
A single high reading of your cortisol isn't really a diagnosis.
没错。
Right.
皮质醇本来在早上就应该偏高。
Cortisol's supposed to be high in the morning.
对。
Yeah.
而且不是每个人都会说，哦，你的皮质醇早上必须达到19.25之类的。
And not everyone's gonna have, oh, your cortisol needs to be at 19.25 da da da in the morning.
对。
Right.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
明白。
Yeah.
好。
Okay.
假设我是正常人。
Pretend I'm normal.
假设我不只是有点焦虑，而是真的有理由相信我的皮质醇水平可能不正常，因为之前提到的那些原因，你刚才也大致说过了。
Pretend I'm more than just a little bit anxious and I have genuine reason to believe my cortisol levels might actually be out of whack because of the aforementioned, you know, reasons you sort of went through.
除了TikTok上的考特尼，一个真正的医疗专业人士会怎么查我的皮质醇水平？
How would a medical professional, not just Courtney on TikTok, find out what my cortisol levels are?
比如说，有没有一个标准流程？
Like, is there a protocol?
除了抽血之外，还能怎么做？我是说，医生……
Can you, like, besides this blood draw, which feels I mean, I doctors
医生会开抽血检查，但我还是不明白，他们为什么要单独查一次皮质醇？
order blood draws, I'm still why kind of are they ordering a singular cortisol blood draw?
对。
Yeah.
我也没法完全搞清楚，因为真正有效的检测应该是24小时尿液检测，那才是经过验证的。
I can't fully piece that together because the true test is going to be a twenty four hour urine test, something validated.
等等。
Wait.
24小时尿液检测？
Twenty four hour urine test?
是我想的那个意思吗？
Is that what I think it is?
对，你得收集整整24小时的尿液。
Yep, you've gotta collect your urine throughout an entire twenty four hour period of time.
那得用个特别大的可乐瓶吧。
That's gotta be a very large Pepsi bottle.
天哪。
Oh gosh.
有时候也可以在特定时间点做唾液检测。
Sometimes you can do saliva at specific times.
好的。
Okay.
还有的时候会有更复杂的动态测试，就是给你用一种药，然后观察你的皮质醇反应是否正常。
And then sometimes there's more involved dynamic testing where they give you a drug and watch whether your cortisol responds the way it should.
再说一次，我不是这方面的专家，但听起来更偏医学范畴。
And again, I'm not an expert on how that's gonna work, but it sounds more medical related.
对。
Right.
意思是，你应该去找真正的医生做这个检查。
Meaning you should go to a medical doctor to get that
没错，不是找TikTok上的考特尼。
one Correct, not Courtney on TikTok.
那什么时候就变成那种纯粹的养生骗局了？
So when does it tip into like full wellness grifter territory?
当你开始说要把你一整天的曲线都画出来，而且它应该长这样的时候。
When you start going into like map your whole daily curve and it should look this way.
很多时候就是那种荷兰测试，一天里要取好几次唾液样本。
That's a lot of times the Dutch test, where you take multiple saliva samples across the day.
有时候还得做尿检。
Sometimes you also do a urine test.
这里有个事儿让我有点纠结。
And here's the thing that's a little, I have some mixed feelings about.
好的。
Okay.
这些测试可能得花500美元，而且可以从非医疗专业人士那里买到。
They're like, they can be like $500 you can get them from a non medical professional.
对。
Yeah.
然后人们要么自己解读，要么找不是医疗专业人士的人帮忙，结果搞不清楚结果到底说明了什么，你懂吧？
And then people are just like interpreting themselves or with someone that's not a medical professional, so they get confused as to what the actual results are telling them, you know?
没错。
Right.
而且我觉得，很多提供测试的公司，既然提供诊断，肯定也会提供某种针对诊断的解决方案，比如补充剂或者某种方案。
And I mean, I would guess that a lot of these companies offering tests, like offering the diagnosis, will also be offering some way of appealing to that diagnosis, a supplement or some sort of protocol.
我对这个也很矛盾，因为一方面，我们的医疗体系感觉已经坏得没法修了，几乎没人对自己在其中的处境感到满意。
I'm really ambivalent about this too because on one hand, our healthcare system feels irreparably broken and like almost no one feels all that great about how they fit into that.
我喜欢赋予人们自主权和选择权，把诊断工具交到人们手里的想法。
I like the idea of giving people agency autonomy and putting diagnostic tools in the hands of people.
但是，当你去看研究结果的时候，把诊断工具交到普通人手里，往往并不会带来更好的健康结果，因为普通人不太会解读数据，更不擅长系统分析。
However, when you look at the research, so often putting those diagnostic tools in the hands of people doesn't yield better health outcomes because Joe Schmo or Zoey Schmo is not good at interpreting and certainly not good at systematizing.
他们确实做过研究，如果一天内多次采集样本，百分之四十的人可能会搞错时间点，而时间点很重要，所以这会影响结果。看一些比较流行的测试，比如测量皮质醇昼夜节律的，一项荟萃分析发现，包括皮质醇觉醒反应在内，这些测试的日间可靠性很差。
They've actually done studies where collecting the samples throughout the day, forty percent of people can botch the timing of it, the timing's important, so then that's gonna affect the Looking at some of the more popular tests that measure like the diurnal cortisol measures, a meta analysis found that including the cortisol awakening response, they have poor day to day reliability.
所以如果你在两天里测试同一个健康的人，可能会得到两条不同的曲线，而他们的健康状况并没有任何变化，这真的很离谱。
So if you test the same healthy person on two different days, you can get two different curves and nothing about their health changed, which is wild.
这感觉不太好。
That doesn't feel great.
是啊。
No.
因为这样一来，你花了五百美元，结果反而更焦虑了。
So because then you're spending $500 and you're like getting more stressed.
对。
Right.
而且你不如……就只是单纯地焦虑一下算了。
And you might as well About just like being stressed.
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