米奇·阿尔博姆：故事大师分享他的写作秘诀 | 我是如何写作的

我说，你找错人了。

I said, You got the wrong guy.

嗯，部分原因一定是你对工作流程很有条理。

Well, part of that must be is you're pretty regimented about your process.

每天早上三小时，你知道的，不等灵感降临，而是主动出击让灵感来找你的那种人。

Three hours, get up in the morning, you know, don't wait for the inspiration to strike, strike so that the inspiration comes kind of guy.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这其中部分原因也源于我的新闻工作背景。

I think some of that comes from a journalism background too.

你知道的，无论想不想写，每天都得写；或者不管愿不愿意，都得去报道那场比赛。

You know, you have to write every day whether you feel like it or not, or you have to go cover that game whether you feel like it or not.

你得从一场可能并不精彩的比赛中挖掘出故事来。

You have to spin some story out of something that might not be that interesting a game.

所以我在这方面受过很好的训练。

So I was well trained in that.

后来我还向一些非常优秀的作家学习。

And then I learned from some really good writers.

我加入了一个作家乐队。

I play in a band of writers.

像是音乐乐队那种吗？

Like a music band?

对，一个音乐乐队。

Yeah, a music band.

而且每个人都是作家。

And everyone's a writer.

是的，乐队名叫‘摇滚底渣’。

Yeah, it's called the Rock Bottom Remainders.

我们已经成立三十年了，一直在演出。

They've been around for we've been playing for thirty years already.

成员包括斯蒂芬·金、谭恩美、戴夫·巴里、斯科特·塔罗、雷德利·皮尔森、詹姆斯·麦克布莱德，还有已故的弗兰克·麦考特。

And Stephen King and Amy Tan, Dave Barry, Scott Tarrou, Ridley Pearson, James McBride, Frank McCourt was in it.

许多作家来来去去担任嘉宾，但这正是核心所在。

Many, many writers have come and gone through as guests, but that's kind of the core.

说实话，我有时会和他们讨论创作方法，但我们很少花时间谈论写作本身。

And you know, I'll talk to them sometimes about how they do it and we don't spend a lot of time talking about writing to be honest with you.

我们主要讨论类似'哪个和弦弹错了'这样的事。

We mostly talk about like what chord we got wrong.

但当我们真正讨论写作时，我注意到大家都把它当作一份工作来对待。

But when we do talk about writing what I've observed is everybody kind of approaches it like a job.

只有一个人例外，格雷格·艾尔斯，他是个很棒的人，刚刚去世。

There was only one guy, Greg Isles, who's a wonderful guy, just passed away.

他会在凌晨两点突然灵感迸发，从两点一直写到上午十一点，还会说'别打扰我，我文思如泉涌'之类的话。

He would like, it would hit him at two in the morning and he'd get up with, you know, from 02:00 in the morning till eleven in the morning and he'd go, you know, Don't bother me, I'm on a roll, and that kind of thing.

但其他人大都遵循这样的模式：起床、去办公室、写作——就像雷德·史密斯说的'打开血管任其流淌'，然后第二天继续。

But pretty much everybody else was like, Get up, go to the office, write, you know, open a vein, let it bleed, as Red Smith said, and then come back the next day and do it.

所以我明白了必须把它当成一份工作来对待。

So I learned, you know, that you have to treat it like a job.

我认识到要清楚自己的精力储备，不要试图透支它。

I learned that you should recognize how big your gas tank is and pretty much don't try to outrun your gas tank.

对我来说，就像你提到的，大约是三个小时。

For me, as you mentioned, it's about three hours.

我每天大约写作三小时。

I get about three hours of writing a day.

我一大早就开始工作。

I start first thing in the morning.

我故意不去听。

I deliberately don't listen.

我起床后可能会喝点什么，一杯咖啡之类的，然后直接坐到屏幕前开始写作。

I get up and maybe I'll grab something to drink, a cup of coffee or something, and then go right down to the screen and start writing.

没有音乐，没有新闻，没有邮件，没有网络，任何可能玷污我想象力空白的东西都没有。

No music, no news, no emails, no internet, nothing that could start to stain the white of my imagination.

我就这样度过最初三小时，不接任何电话也不做其他事。

And I just do those first three hours without taking any phone calls or without doing anything else.

通常从7点左右开始，到十点我就完成了。

It starts usually like 07:00 or whatever and by ten I'm done.

现在我大可以坐在那里直到下午五点让大家都觉得我很勤奋，但不会再有更多产出。

Now I could sit there and make everybody feel good about my sitting there until 05:00, but I won't get anything more.

所以我明白了，这就是我能完成的量，但要尽量以积极的笔调收尾。

So I've learned, all right, that's about all I'm going to get, but try to leave on a positive note.

试着在你写到好句子或好段落时离开房间。

Try leave the room while you're in the middle of a good sentence or a good paragraph.

不要卡住才停笔。

Don't stop stuck.

对，强迫自己在特别想写完的句子中途停笔。

Yeah, force yourself to stop in the middle of a sentence that you really want to finish.

嗯。

Yeah.

这样第二天早晨醒来时，你会迫不及待想回去继续写。

And then when you wake up the next morning, you're excited to get back down and go do it.

相反，如果你在卡住时停下来，或者在事情不顺利时停下来，早上醒来第一个念头是：'不，又是那个'。

Whereas if you stop when you're stuck, or you stop when things aren't going well, and you get up in the morning and your first thought is, No, that again.

我又要回去面对那堆烂摊子了。

I'm going go back to that crap.

所以，这是我用的小技巧。

So, that's a little trick that I use.

是的，然后我几乎每天都这样做，尤其是在写书的时候。

But yeah, and then I do it pretty much every day, especially when I'm working on a book.

对我来说一周七天是常态。

Seven days a week is normal for me.

你知道，我们在谈论故事，多年前你接受采访时曾提到肯尼迪遇刺事件，谈到大多数人如何用一种方式报道。

You know, we're talking about stories, and many years ago you did an interview, you were talking about a story about the Kennedy assassination and how most people covered the story in one way.

有个叫D的人。

There was one guy D.

M。

M.

布雷斯林。

Breslin.

去找了掘墓人。

Went to the grave digging guy.

对，对。

Yeah, yeah.

是的，你知道，当我与人谈论新闻业时，特别是专栏写作时，我总说人们会记住的往往是那些远离主要事件的报道。

Yeah, that was, you know, when I talk to people about journalism, and I talk to them particularly about column writing, I always say that the ones that people are going to remember are often the ones that are away from the main action.

如果你能通过这种方式讲述故事，你就能创作出一篇令人难忘的专栏或新闻作品。

And if you can somehow tell the story through that, you're gonna create a memorable a memorable column or piece of journalism.

你提到的那个例子是吉米·布雷斯林，当时他应该是在为《每日新闻》撰稿，我不太确定。

So the one that you're referring to was was Jimmy Breslin, who the time I guess was writing for the Daily News, don't know.

当肯尼迪遇刺时，全国所有专栏作家都在写这对美国意味着什么。

And when JFK was killed, everybody in the country who had a column was writing about what it meant to America.

他们写的都是些宣言式的句子和段落——这是美国的转折点，我们是谁，诸如此类宏大的思考。

And they were writing all these declarative sentences and paragraphs this you is the turning point in America, who are we, or blah blah blah, you know, his grandiose thoughts.

他去了墓地，找到那个为约翰·F·肯尼迪挖坟墓的人。

He went to the cemetery and found the guy who was digging the grave for John F.

肯尼迪。

Kennedy.

那人非常细致，他说'必须挖得恰到好处'。

And the guy was very meticulous and he was like, It has to be just right.

这可是为总统准备的，你知道。

This is for the president, you know.

他只是谈论着草皮或他正在挖的墓穴等小细节。

And he just talked about the small details of the sod or the hole that he was digging or whatever.

通过这一个人，你捕捉到了其他所有人试图表达的一切。

And through this one guy you captured everything that all those other people were trying to write.

你捕捉到了悲痛，国家的灵魂，以及它对每个人的意义。

You captured the grief, the soul of the nation, what it meant to everybody.

但你是通过一个唯一职责就是为肯尼迪遗体准备墓穴的人来展现这一切的。

But you did it through a guy whose sole job it was was to prepare the hole that Kennedy's body was going to go in.

这确实是个与众不同的讲述方式。

And that's a great way to tell that story differently than everybody else did.

你让我深入思考了视角和观点的问题。

You got me thinking a lot about perspective, point of view.

如果要回顾我人生中最尴尬的时刻，大学一年级时感到的羞耻感最强烈。

So one of the most embarrassing moments like if I were to look back at my life, like at what point did I get feel the most shame was freshman year of college.

当时我负责本地新闻的体育版块。

So I ran the local news sports division.

那是橄榄球赛季刚开始，我在解说席上。

And so it was, you know, beginning of the football season and I'm up in the box.

在我母校埃隆大学，主队达阵得分时。

Elon, where I went to school, the home team scored a touchdown.

我兴奋地喊了声'耶！'

I was like, Yeah!

结果所有记者都对我'嘘'了一声。

And all the reporters were like, Shhh.

不是'不'

Not No

在记者席上欢呼。

so cheering in the press box.

我当时确实不知道这个规矩。

I didn't know this exactly.

记者席禁止欢呼。

No cheering in the press box.

我当时就想，天哪。

And I was like, Oh my goodness.

这一切都说明，从那一刻起，你知道，我明显感觉到体育新闻界普遍存在一种‘记者席上不得欢呼’的心态。

And all this is to say that from that moment, you know, it's obvious to me that there is a kind of no cheering in the press box kind of mentality in a bunch of sports journalism.

但后来我回想起两位我喜欢的体育记者。

But then I think back at two sports writers that I like.

我想到了比尔·西蒙斯，你知道的，他是红袜队的铁杆粉丝。

I think of Bill Simmons, you know, ardent Red Sox fan.

然后我想到有史以来我最喜欢的体育新闻作品是大卫·福斯特·华莱士的《费德勒的宗教体验》，他在文中畅谈观看那位网球手击球时的艺术、美感、惊叹与魔力。

And then I think my favorite piece of sports journalism of all time is David Foster Wallace, Federer's Religious Experience, where he's just talking about the art, the beauty, the wonder, the magic of watching that guy hit a tennis ball.

而我此刻思考的是反向定位策略。

And it's what I'm thinking about here is counter positioning.

常规做法是什么？

What is the normal thing?

你知道，你在讨论应该关注哪种与众不同的人物。

You know, you're talking about who is the different kind of person that you focus on.

但我认为近年来的体育新闻，很多增长点都来自人们宣称：知道吗？

But I think a lot of sports journalism recently, a lot of the growth there I say, has come from people saying, You know what?

不，我是这支球队的粉丝。

No, I'm a fan of this team.

我热爱这项运动，我要让我炽热的热情

I'm a fan of this sport and I'm going to let my radiant enthusiasm

透过文字传递出来。

come through the words.

媒体席之所以禁止欢呼，初衷是为了给记者创造一个专注工作的环境。

Well, the reason there's no cheering in the press box is was intended to just sort of create a working environment for journalists to focus.

但这逐渐演变成了一种近乎教条的态度：不要为主队加油。

It became though kind of a mantra of like almost an attitude: don't cheer for the home team.

我一直觉得这种做法很愚蠢。

I always thought that that was silly.

而且我始终认为，抱怨工作的体育记者本质上是在自毁前程。

And I always thought that sports writers who complained about their jobs were basically committing suicide.

不知为何，我很早就意识到并从未犯过这种错误——我拥有的这份工作，正是所有读者梦寐以求的。

I always, for whatever reason, I always recognized early on and never made the mistake of complaining about my job that I had a job that everyone who was reading me wanted.

对他们而言，进入更衣室不是关于拥挤混乱、听不清球员说话、被18岁小孩辱骂、难闻气味或是被摄像师撞到这些糟心事。

You know to them getting to go into the locker room wasn't about scrums and getting stuck around a guy who you can't hear or getting cursed at by an 18 year old or or the smell or the getting run over by camera people or all the stuff that happens in there.

而是——哇哦。

It was, wow.

我能和心目中的英雄们共处一室。

I get to be amongst my heroes.

你能和我的英雄们近距离接触。

You get to be amongst my heroes.

明白吗？

You know?

你拥有的正是我梦寐以求的工作。

You have a job that I want.

真了不起。

Wow.

你可以坐在记者席，每场比赛都能拿到门票。

You get to go sit in the press where you get tickets to every single game.

你知道吗？

You know?

你不需要买票。

You don't have to buy them.

你不用坐在那些廉价的座位上。

You don't have to sit out in the in the in the in the cheap seat.

你参加过香槟喷洒仪式吗？

You ever been to a champagne popping ceremony?

天啊。

Oh my god.

是的。

Yeah.

我被香槟淋湿过。

Been I've been soaked by them.

顺便说一句，我嫉妒

And by the way jealous of

那并不好玩。

it's not fun.

确实不好玩。

It's not fun.

香槟会灼伤皮肤。

Champagne burns.

是啊。

Yeah.

这并不有趣。

It's not fun.

我曾被人泼过香槟，也被愤怒的投手用一桶冰浇过。

And I've had champagne dumped on me, and I've had a bucket of ice dumped on me by an angry pitcher.

所以我算是经历过这两种极端情况了。

So I've been at both ends of that spectrum.

但我知道不该抱怨这个职位，因为对很多人来说这是个梦想。

But I know not to complain about the position because it is a fantasy for a lot of people.

禁止在记者席欢呼，并不意味着不能为主队热情加油。

And no cheering the press box shouldn't mean no enthusiasm for the home team.

对体育无动于衷是说不通的，因为如果没有激情，你为什么要参与其中呢？

Being dispassionate about sports doesn't make sense because why are you even playing them unless there's passion?

否则它不过是个游戏，对吧？

It's just a game otherwise, you know?

如果它对你毫无意义，你没有投入其中，或者为主队加油对你来说无关紧要，那谁会在乎呢？

If it doesn't mean something, you know, you aren't invested in it or, you know, it means something to you to root for your home team or whatever, then who cares?

那不过是个被踢来踢去、或用球棒击打的球罢了。

It's it's it's a ball getting kicked around from place to place or being hit with a bat.

所以我一直明白激情应该存在于那里，从不担心自己会显得偏袒主队之类。

So I always knew that the passion belonged there and I never worried about being a homer or anything like that.

我只是试图诚实地写作——如果全城都为此兴奋，那么这就是你要写的内容。

I just, you know, I tried to write what was honest, but if it was honest that everyone in town was excited about it, you know, then that's what you wrote.

能在底特律工作，我感到非常幸运。

And I was very blessed that I worked in Detroit.

底特律不像纽约、费城或伯恩斯那样是个充满嘲讽的地方。

And Detroit is not a cynical place like New York or Philadelphia or Burns.

那个地方燃烧着激情。

Burns with passion, that place.

是的，这是个很棒的运动之城，人们热爱他们的球队。

Yeah, it's a great sports town and they love their team.

他们不介意表达对球队的热爱。

They don't mind loving their teams.

他们不会像费城人那样对圣诞老人喝倒彩。

And they're not going to boo Santa Claus like they do in Philadelphia.

你不需要通过刻薄来证明自己。

And you don't make your mark.

底特律历史上那些著名的体育记者，都不是靠对球队刻薄起家的。

The well known sports journalists in the history of Detroit didn't cut their teeth by being mean to the teams.

他们实际上是通过为球队加油助威而成名的。

They cut their teeth actually by kind of leading the cheers for the teams.

所以我很幸运能在这样的城市工作，现在依然如此，我更喜欢这种方式。

So I was lucky I worked in a town like that and still do and I much prefer it.

时刻保持愤世嫉俗是很累的。

It's hard to be cynical all the time.

时刻保持愤怒是很累的。

It's hard to be angry all the time.

从你所观看的事物中寻找丑陋之处需要耗费大量精力。

It takes a lot of energy to find the ugliness in what you're watching.

我更愿意发现美好与欢乐，要知道，当我们的城市长期低迷时，在我职业生涯的大部分时间里，底特律一直处于低谷，你知道吗？

I'd much rather find the beauty and the joy and when it was good for you know, our city was down for so long, so much of my career, Detroit has been in the crapper, you know?

因此，体育对我们来说是一个获得快乐时刻的机会，偶尔还能赢得一些全国性的尊重。

And so sports for us was a chance to have some happy moments and once in a while to get some national respect.

所以我总是对底特律怀有一点保护心态，并乐于在我们有值得欢呼的事情时带头喝彩。

So I've always been a little defensive about Detroit and happy to lead of the cheers when we had something to cheer about.

当红翼队赢球时，当活塞队赢球时。

When the Red Wings were winning and when the Pistons were winning.

现在是狮子队了，宝贝。

Now the lions, baby.

现在是狮子队。

Now the lions.

现在是狮子队。

Now the lions.

他们来了。

Here they come.

告诉我，你是如何思考角色的？

Tell me this, how do you think about characters?

你正在塑造一个角色。

You're developing a character.

你关注的重点是什么？

What are the things that you're focused on?

嗯，我认为回答这个问题首先需要明确：你指的是主角吗？

Well, I think the answer to that is first you need to specify are you talking about the main character?

是的，我们讨论的是主要角色。

Yeah, we're talking about the main characters.

次要角色。

Ancillary characters.

所以我的主角必须经历某种转变，否则故事就缺乏趣味性。

So my main character has to go through some kind of transformation or it's not interesting.

角色在故事开始和结束时必须有所改变，无论男女或其他身份。

There has to be a difference in him at the beginning versus the end or her or whoever it is.

于是问题就变成：我们该从哪里开始，又该走向何方？

So So then it's like, well okay where are we gonna start and where are we gonna get to?

在《你在天堂遇见的五个人》中，我塑造了一个83岁的游乐园维修工，他觉得自己虚度一生、微不足道、从未远行，只是在等待死亡降临。

So in The Five People You Meet in Heaven I started with a guy who's an 83 year old maintenance worker at an amusement park who thinks he's done nothing with his life and he's a nobody and he's never been anywhere and he's just waiting to die.

而就在那天，他为救一个小女孩而死去——试图推开即将压垮她的坠落车厢时，他握着她的小手，随后眼前一片漆黑。

And he does die that day trying to save a little girl from an accident and from a falling cart that was about to crush her and he goes to push her out of the way, and he feels her little hands in his hands and then everything goes black.

他在天堂苏醒后，发现天堂的第一阶段是遇见生命中的五个人，有些是至亲，有些是陌路，但每个人都讲述着你曾做过永远改变他们或改变你自己的事。

And he wakes up in heaven and he finds out that the first stage of heaven is you meet five people from your life, some of whom you might know well, some of whom might be total strangers, but each one tells you about something that you did that changed them forever or changed you forever.

现在我明白了，开篇要呈现他的状态——我在第一章花大量笔墨铺垫那些孤独的瞬间。

So now I know, okay, I got them at the beginning, I spent a lot of time in the first chapter just setting up little lonely moments.

他从木板栈道下的钓鱼洞里拉出空无一物的绳子，嘟囔着说从来都钓不到东西。

He pulls a string out of a fishing hole that they have and cutting the bottom of the boardwalk and there's nothing on it and he says there's never anything on it.

他走到户外，在海鸥鸣叫声中沉沉睡去，这真是个孤寂的时刻。

He goes outside and falls asleep with the sound of seagulls going overhead, know, kind of a lonely sort of moment.

他听到一首妻子曾随其起舞的歌，回忆涌上心头，随后醒来意识到自己预约了医生，还患上了带状疱疹。

He hears a song that his wife used to dance to and he remembers her and now he's, and then he wakes up and he realizes he has a doctor's appointment and he has shingles.

这些小事恰恰奠定了他孤独、悲伤、自觉无足轻重的基调。

These little things that just kind of set the tone that he's alone, that he's sad, that he feels like he's a nobody.

现在我已确定了他的起点，心中也大致勾勒了他的终点，剩下的问题就是：如何通过过程让他转变到我期望的模样？

And so now I've established where I want to begin him and in my mind I kind of know where I want to end him and then it's a question, the process is how do I change him along the way to get him to where I want him to be?

顺便说下，《TWICE》这本新书也是同样手法。

Same thing with TWICE, by the way, with the new book.

这属于同类型的创作方式。

It's the same kind of thing.

同一个角色，以特定状态开场。

Same character, starts a certain way.

这次的情况——其实我之前也用过一两次——在《Twice》新书中，开篇时他已年长且被捕入狱。

In that case, and I've done this once or twice before, in Twice, the new book, it begins with him, he's already older and he's been arrested.

他被捕的罪名是在巴哈马赌场轮盘赌中涉嫌作弊，连续三次精准押中同一号码——这根本不可能。

And he's been arrested for allegedly cheating at a roulette wheel in a casino in The Bahamas and winning three straight numbers with the exact number, which is impossible.

我是说，这种概率微乎其微，简直荒谬。

I mean, the odds are infinitesimal, you know, crazy.

一名警探正审问他：'你怎么做到的？老实交代！你到底怎么做到的？'

And a cop is interrogating him, a detective, about how'd you do it, come on, how'd you do it, how'd you do it?

'我什么都没做','少装蒜，快说你怎么做到的？'

I didn't do anything, you know, come on, how'd you do it?

'我真的什么都没做。'

I didn't do anything.

你的故事是什么，你的故事是什么？

What's your story, what's your story?

于是在他的压力下，他拿出了这本笔记本，里面写着他为别人准备的临终遗言。

And so under pressure from him, he takes out this notebook that he has written for somebody else to be read upon his death.

然后你意识到他快死了。

And you realize he's dying.

他把笔记本递给抄写员说：如果你真想知道，可以大声念出来。

And he gives it to the copy, he says, If you really want to know, you can read this out loud, you know.

然后他们一起翻阅了这本笔记。

And they go through it together.

所以通过他，我已经在结尾处确立了他的形象，现在你要从头开始阅读他是如何改变并走到那一步的。

And so with him, I've already established him at the end, and now you're going to read from the beginning how he changed and got there.

因此有很多角度可以处理这个情节。

So there's a lot of angles from which you can do this.

你可以先设定人物的某种状态，然后在读者心中埋下疑问。

You can either start with the person a certain way and you put the idea in the reader's mind.

他是怎么变成那样的？

How did he get that way?

他如何成为了那样的人？

How did he become that?

你看，现在你要展示从最初到最后的完整对比。

You know, and now you show the contrast from the beginning all the way in.

或者你也可以从一个天真无邪的人物开始，就像《弗兰基·普雷斯托》里那样，其中一个魔法琴弦的故事就是关于他神奇的吉他手身份。

Or you start with, you know, very innocent kind of person and you, like in Frankie Presto, one of the magic strings of Frankie Presto is about his magical guitar player.

故事从他小时候还是个婴儿时开始，一直线性发展到结局，你会看着他一路成长变化。

That starts when he's a little boy, an infant, and literally goes linearly all the way to the end and you watch him change along the way.

所以虽然有很多起点，但对我来说这是一次蜕变。

So there's lots of starting points but it's a transformation for me.

角色必须要有成长变化。

Your characters have to transform.

如果角色一成不变就太无趣了。

It's not interesting if they don't.

没人愿意读两三百页的书，看着主角从第一章到结尾毫无变化。

Nobody wants to read 200, 300 pages about the same person who's the same way as they were in chapter one as they are at the end.

不管角色本身多有意思，重复总会让人厌倦，所以必须要有变化。

No matter how interesting they may be it gets repetitive, you know, so you have to change.

你觉得我有多少是在为米奇写作，又有多少是在为读者写作？

How much do you feel like I'm writing for Mitch versus I'm writing for a reader?

98%是为读者写的。

98% writing for readers.

真的吗？

Is that right?

是的。

Yeah.

那么这具体体现在哪些方面呢？

So how does that manifest itself?

我其实不太在意什么能引起我的兴趣。

I don't worry about what interests me, you know, per se.

哦，我喜欢这个话题或这个领域，或者我想写点东西。比如我喜欢怀旧音乐。

Oh I like this topic or this area or I want to write Like I like oldies music.

明白吗？

Okay?

就像如果你问我我的热情所在，我喜欢五十年代的摇滚二重唱。

Like if you ask me what's a passion of mine I like fifty's duo rock and roll.

多年前我曾在一个演奏这种音乐的乐队里。

I was in a band years ago that played it.

我超爱听这种音乐。

I love listening to it.

我几乎每天都听。

I listen to it almost every day.

但我不会写关于二重唱音乐的书，因为我不觉得能让大量读者对这个题材产生兴趣。

I'm not writing a book about duo op music because I don't really see a great way to make that interesting to a large number of readers.

首先音乐本身就很难描述。

First of all music's very difficult.

我写过一本音乐书，因为音乐是我的热情所在，所以我全身心投入其中。

I wrote one music book which I threw myself into because music's a passion of mine.

但这很困难，因为音乐真正的美在于听觉。

But it's tough because the beauty, the real beauty of music is Aural.

A U R A L（听觉的）。

A U R A L.

它不是，它不是，很难用文字表达。

It's not, it's not, it's hard to write down.

无论你用什么词、用多少词，如果你想模仿汤姆·沃尔夫那样大量使用斜体字，或是试图写出节奏感，其实都无关紧要。

And no matter what words you use and you know how many, if you want to write like Tom Wolf with a lot of italics and and try to write the beat out, it doesn't matter.

要传达清楚真的很难。

It's really hard to get it across.

这是我热衷的事，但我不会去写它。

So that's a passion of mine, but I'm not gonna write it.

思考那些能让人自我探索的事物。

Think about things that people to explore themselves.

然后我会问：这些话题是我能发表见解的、有所了解的，还是我自己也好奇的？

And then I say, okay, are these things that I have something to say about or I have some knowledge about or I'm curious about myself?

当我告诉你的那些主题产生交集时——当我自己好奇或有所了解的内容与读者可能也感兴趣的内容重叠时——这些就会入选。

And those themes that I told you about, when those overlap, when one that I'm curious about or I've learned something about overlaps with something that I think readers will be curious about too, that makes the list.

仅仅因为我的个人兴趣是不会入选的。

What doesn't make the list is just because I'm interested in it.

或许人们认为这样不对，觉得应该写自己热爱的东西，但这毕竟是门生意。

And maybe people think that that's wrong and you should write what you love but it's a business.

你出版书籍，试图让人们去阅读，而这需要耗费你一两年的生命。

You're putting out books and you're trying to get people to go read books and it takes you a year or two of your life to do it.

不知道，可能我习惯了为观众写作——报业是为观众，电影业也是为观众。

I don't know, I guess I'm just used to writing for an audience, the newspaper business is an audience, the movie business is an audience.

写剧本时，你根本就是在为观众创作。

You write a play, you're literally writing it for an audience.

我记得《窈窕淑男》里有句台词，应该是比尔·默瑞演的剧作家说的。

I remember that line in, I think it was Tootsie, Bill Murray, and he's a playwright.

他说，我想写一部没人来看的戏剧。

He goes, I wanna write a play that nobody comes to see.

我当时想，好吧。

I was like, okay.

是啊。

Yeah.

行吧。

All right.

那倒挺不错的。

That would be great.

如果有人来看，那这戏就是垃圾。

If people come and see it, then it's trash.

那就是失败了。

It's failed.

好吧。

Alright.

嗯，所以这作为电影里的台词很有趣，但不能用来指导职业生涯。

Well, that's why it was a funny line in a movie, but it's not a way to run your career.

对。

Yeah.

那么构思主题、前提或书籍创意的过程是怎样的？

So what is the process of coming up with a theme, a premise, a book idea?

具体是什么样的呢？

What does that look like?

是这样的，当我想到一本书或一个概念的创意时，我会记下来或者给自己发邮件，因为我经常在那些试图写在纸上却总是弄丢纸片的地方。

Well, I you know, when I get an idea for a book or a concept, I write it down or I send myself an email, actually, because I'm frequently in places where I tried to write it on a piece of paper, and then I just lose the pieces of paper.

我曾经有一整袋皱巴巴的黄色小纸片，都是半夜醒来想到点子时随手记下的笔记。

I once had a whole bag of just little pieces of yellow paper that I scrunched up or stuff, notes you write to yourself at night when you wake up and you get an idea.

现在有了电子邮件和手机，我直接给自己发邮件，并在主题栏标注'书籍创意'之类的标签。

Now I, because of email and phones and everything, I just email myself and I tag the, you know, the what's the line, the subject line, book idea.

每隔几个月我就会搜索这些书籍创意，把它们整理出来打印好归档。

And so then when I search every couple of months, just go search my book ideas, I pull them and I print them and I put them into a file.

现在我有个几英寸厚的文件夹，里面有时是完整的故事主题，

So now I have a file that's, you know, inches thick with sometimes it's a whole theme, a story.

有时只是一句话，

Sometimes it's a line.

有时是个标题，

Sometimes it's a title.

有时像是'这可以成为书的绝妙开篇'这样的灵感。

Sometimes it's like this would make a great first line for a book, you know?

我把这些都收集在文件夹里，等到要写新书时——就像现在这样，虽然已有新书即将出版，但该考虑下一部作品了——我就会翻阅那个文件夹寻找灵感。

And I just collect them in those files and then when time comes to write another book, like I'm at now, know, I already have a new book coming out, it's time to start thinking about what I want to do next, I'll go and just leaf through that file and I'll find something.

我很幸运从未遭遇写作瓶颈，这对我来说不是问题。

I'm blessed not to ever suffer from writer's block, that's never been a thing for me.

或许当你总是赶截稿日期时，根本没资格有瓶颈吧。

Maybe you're not allowed to, you know, when you're under deadline all the time.

说到这个，有个著名故事——我记得是纽约的迪克·杨报道的——关于世界大赛唐·拉森那场完美比赛的。

No, you're You know, there's that famous story about, I think it was Dick Young here in New York, what it was a it was a World Series Don Larson's perfect game.

好的。

Okay.

据说迪克·杨是《纽约邮报》的体育记者，当时他坐在那里，在唐·拉森完成他的完美比赛后，他旁边的家伙僵住了，什么都写不出来。

So the story goes that Dick Young was, a sports writer for the New York Post and they he was sitting there and the guy next to him after Don Larson finished his perfect game, he froze and he couldn't come up with anything.

他心想，天啊，我一个字都憋不出来。

And he was like, my God, I don't have anything.

截稿时间到了。

It's deadline.

我什么都写不出来。

I don't have anything.

传说迪克·杨被这家伙打扰得心烦意乱，抓起打字机就写下《完美比赛中的不完美之人》，大概是因为拉森有些问题什么的。

And Dick Young, this is the legend, frustrated that he was interrupting him that he grabbed his typewriter and wrote The Imperfect Man Through the Perfect Game, because I guess Larson had some issues or whatever.

他把稿子塞回去说：喏，开写吧！

And he gave him his thing back and said, Ner, start!

这句话后来成了那家伙报道的著名开场白。

And that became a famous first line of this guy's story.

我可没这种福气。

I can't I don't have that luxury.

在我耗尽此生之前，我的故事点子文件夹永远都清空不了。

And I will run out of years on this earth long before I run out of that file of story ideas.

我见过个有趣的想法：用两种不同方式呈现同一件事。

There was a fun idea that I saw around frame the same thing in two different ways.

一种充满生活情趣，带着行动的火花和风味，另一种则会平淡无奇。

One has the spice of life, a little spark of action and flavor, and the other one will be dull.

就像是，好吧，这位二垒手的打击率是333。

It was like, Alright, this second baseman is batting three thirty three.

你可以这么说，或者可以说，这家伙每上场三次，就有一次会有好表现。

You'd say it like that, or you could say, one in three times when this guy walks up to the plate, something good happens.

我一直都是这么说的。

That's what I always said.

我喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

那个

That

简直就像是故事哲学在最微小处显现，就像分形之类的东西。

is just completely it's like the story philosophy showing up in the smallest places, like Fractal or something.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，我说过这话。

Well, I said that.

我不知道你是在引用我的话还是

I don't know if you're quoting me or

是的。

I am.

我是在引用。没错。

I am quoting Yeah.

所以

So

我记得我做过一个关于体育写作的演讲，我说过我想为那些铁杆体育粉丝写作——他们无论如何都会读你的文章。

I remember I gave a talk about, you know, how you write about sports, and I always said that I wanted to write for The diehard sports fan is going to read you no matter what.

他们可能讨厌你，但仍然会读，因为他们会阅读所有相关内容。

They may hate you, he'll still read you because he's going to read everything.

但我想为北卡罗来纳州那位从未看过底特律队比赛的老奶奶写作，她依然能读懂我的专栏并理解其中含义。

But I wanted to write for that grandmother in North Carolina who'd never seen a Detroit game or whatever and still could read my column and get it.

明白吗？

Know?

最重要的是，首先这意味着要选择一个读者能产生共鸣的主题。

And most often, most importantly, first of all, that meant picking a theme that the person could identify with.

所以写人性，写克服失败或战胜困境这类主题。

So write about humanity, write about, you know, write about overcoming loss or overcoming strife or whatever it is.

但其中关键是要避免陷入统计数据这类细节——现在很多体育记者，特别是那些过度分析WHIP等荒谬数据的。

But a subset of that was don't get lost in the weeds about statistics and things like that, which a lot of sports writers, especially now with WHP and and all this ridiculous analytic overanalyzing things.

就像在读电子表格，比如3.33的WHIP这类数据。

It's like reading a spreadsheet, you know, when you're, know, the three thirty three whip and this and or.

所以我举例说，如果一个球员打击率是.333，不要直接说这个数字。

So yeah, I said, for example, if a guy hits three thirty three, don't come say that.

要说'他每次上场三次就有一次能创造好结果'——这样所有人都能理解。

Say one out of every three times he comes to the plate something good happens and and that's how everybody can relate to it, you know?

但比事实更重要的是找到人人都能产生共鸣的主题内核。

But even more importantly than the factual stuff, find the thematic stuff that everybody can relate to.

举个完美例子——不知道你们听过没——有时这意味着你必须逆行业惯例而行。

And I'll give you a perfect example, I don't know, stop me if you've heard me tell this story before, but sometimes that means that you have to go against the grain of your business.

我记得那是在巴塞罗那奥运会期间，卡尔·刘易斯要参加100米决赛，那是个周六。

So I was in the, I want to say it was Barcelona at the Olympics, and Carl Lewis was going to run-in a 100 meter final, it was a Saturday.

所有人都准备观看他的比赛，包括我在内。

And everybody was going to watch his race, including me.

所以我提前到了现场，因为知道会非常拥挤——奥运会的体育场总是座无虚席，但我想找个好位置，毕竟100米是短跑项目。

So I went there early because I knew that it was gonna be really crowded and no stadiums get packed at the Olympics, but I wanted to get a good seat because it's 100 meters in a short race.

我下午三点左右就到了，坐在那里等了五个小时，期间他们正在进行一些预赛。

So I'm sitting there, I got there like three in the afternoon or whatever and I'm just sitting there waiting five hours and meanwhile they're running some heats.

其中有一场是400米预赛。

So one of the heats was like a 400 meter heat.

你知道的，运动员们接连不断地出场，一场接一场地比赛。我正这样斜靠着观看，发令枪响了，跑到赛道中途时，一名选手突然腿筋拉伤摔倒了。

And you know those are just countless parade of athletes coming out and running a heat and another heat and another heat and I'm kind of leaning like this watching and the gun goes off race running about halfway around the track this one runner pulls up hamstring, and goes down to the track.

这种情况很常见，尤其是如果你经常关注田径比赛的话。

Okay, happens all the time, especially if you cover track and field.

其他选手继续奔跑完成比赛，而这个受伤的选手倒在跑道上痛苦挣扎，他试图站起来又跌倒了——显然伤势很严重。

So everyone else keeps running and they finish the race and this guy is in his lane and you can see he's suffering and he gets up and he falls back down and gets to the van, he really tore something.

突然，一个体型魁梧的男子毫无预兆地从看台冲进了赛场。

Then suddenly, out of the blue, a guy, kind of a heavyset guy, comes running out of the stands and onto the field.

要知道这是911事件之前，当时的安保没有后来那么严格。

Now remember this is pre-nineeleven so you know security isn't what it was afterwards.

他跑到赛道上，从背后扶起了那名受伤选手。

And he runs onto the track and he gets behind this guy and he lifts him up.

哇哦。

Oh wow.

然后他开始带着他在跑道的内侧行走。

And he starts walking him in the lane around the track.

当他们转过最后一个弯道时，他实际上已经让他站起来了。

And at some point when they come around the final curve, he actually has him up on his feet.

所以他的脚在后面，他每迈一步都像是在走路，因为他们必须保持在跑道内，如果超出跑道就会被取消资格。

So his feet are behind him and each step that he's taking, he's kind of walking because they're staying within the lane because if you go outside the lane, DQ disqualify.

所以他没有空间放下腿什么的，所以他们必须把腿对齐。

So there's not room for him to kinda put his legs or whatever, so they gotta get both their legs lined up.

所以他实际上是在背着他。

So he's literally carrying him.

当然，现在他开始转过弯道了。

Of course, now he's starting to come around the curve.

体育场里的每个人都在欢呼，'加油'。

Everyone in the stadium's like, Yeah.

就像这样。

Like this.

你知道吗？

You know?

过来加油。

Come and cheering.

当他穿过跑道时，每个人都为我热烈鼓掌。

And by the time he gets across the track, everybody gets a big round of applause for me.

假设获胜者用了50秒或49秒完成比赛。

Let's say the winner won in fifty seconds or forty nine seconds.

他大概两分半钟就过来了。

He came around in, like, two and a half minutes.

你知道吗？

You know?

差不多这样。

Something like that.

于是我赶紧跑下楼。

So I go running downstairs.

现在那里只有少数几个记者。

Now there are only a handful of journalists there.

我冲下楼试图找到这个人。

I go running downstairs and try to find this guy.

然后我看到了那个从看台跑出来的人。

And I see the guy who ran out of the stands.

我和其他几个记者冲向他，我问：你是谁？

And me and a handful of other reporters race up to him and I said, Who are you?

你为什么要这么做？

Why'd you do that?

他说：我是他父亲。

He said, I'm his father.

哦，你是谁？

Oh, who are you?

然后我说：那你为什么要从看台跑出来？

And I said, Well, why did you run out of the stands?

他说，要知道他训练得有多刻苦。

He goes, Well, know how hard he trained.

他一生都在为此训练。

He's trained his whole life for this.

我知道如果他没能越过终点线，就不会被记录为参加过奥运会。

And I knew that if he didn't cross the finish line he wouldn't be recorded as having participated in the Olympics.

他的名字可能不会被载入史册。

His name might not be in the books.

所以我明白他必须完成比赛。

And so I knew he just had to finish.

我开始询问他的背景故事。

And I started to ask him questions about his background.

他说，是我教会了他跑步。

He said, well, I taught him how to run.

当他还是个孩子时，我问，你为什么把他的脚放在你的脚上？

And when he was a little I said, why'd you put him on your feet?

他说，在他小时候，是我教会了他跑步。

He said, well, when he was a little boy, I taught him how to run.

我就是这样教他的。

That's how I taught him.

我把他的小脚放在我的脚上。

I put his feet on my feet.

讲这个故事时我哽咽了。

I'm choking up when I'm telling the story.

我把他的脚放在我的脚上，就这样教会了他跑步。

I put his feet on my feet, and that's how I taught him how to run.

所以我记住了这个方法，我们就是这样做的。

And so I remembered that, so that's what we did.

于是我回到楼上，打电话给报社说，我不写卡尔·刘易斯那篇报道了。

So I came back upstairs, and I called my newspaper, and I said, I'm not writing this Carl Lewis thing.

我有个更好的故事。

I got a better story.

他们问，你什么意思？

They go, what do you mean?

那可是卡尔·刘易斯啊。

It's Carl Lewis.

我说，相信我，这个故事更精彩。

I said, trust me, this is a better story.

当时还没有人见过这个场景。

And at the time, nobody had seen it.

现在人人都讲这个故事，表现得好像他们当时在场似的。

Now everybody tells this story, and they all act like they were there.

但当时在场的只有我，根本没有上千万记者。

But I was there, and there weren't 10,000,000 reporters there.

于是我改写了那篇报道，或者说额外写了这篇。

And I wrote that story instead or in addition to.

后来这篇专栏成了我写过的最知名的专栏之一。

And that column became one of the best known columns that I've written.

这个故事讲的是一个我之前从未听说过的人，他叫德里克·雷德曼。

And it was about a guy who I'd never heard of before, Derrick Redman is his name.

但我从未听说过他。

But I never heard of him.

他是英国人。

He was British.

也从没听说过他父亲。

Never heard of the father.

在美国没人关心这家伙。

Nobody in America cared about this guy.

没人知道这场比赛或其他细节，但每个人都能对这个故事产生共鸣。

Nobody knew the race or anything, but everybody could relate to that story.

因为一个父亲不愿看到儿子的心碎。

Because a father with his son not wanting to see his son have his heart broken.

要知道，这就是每个父亲、每个儿子、每个孩子不断重复的故事。

Know, and so he's that is every father and every son and every child repeated over again.

如果你能找到这样的故事，那就是金子般的素材。

And if you can find that, that's gold.

要知道，不管发生什么，这都是你想写的专栏。

You know, that's a column that you want to write no matter what else is out there.

当你在讲述或撰写一个故事时，你如何思考接下来会发生什么？

How do you think about when you're telling a story, writing a story, what happens next?

你如何看待这个问题？

How do you think about that problem?

部分原因在于节奏把控。

Some of it is pacing.

有些部分你会觉得几乎像电影一样。

Some of it you think almost like a movie.

我的故事中有很多动作场景吗？

Have I had a lot of action?

是否需要加入对抗情节？

Do I need a counteraction?

当我写《小骗子》这本书时，故事背景设定在 Holocaust 时期，前三分之一内容有很多关于战争年代的描写——故事发生在希腊，纳粹入侵后犹太人被关进隔离区，然后被送上火车，充满了非常宏大的生死主题。

When I wrote the book, The Little Liar, which was set during the Holocaust, and there was a lot of stuff in the first third of the book about the war years and this was set in Greece and when the Nazis invaded and Jews were put into the ghetto and then the trains and there was a lot of very, very big thematic life and death kind of stuff.

我记得和编辑讨论时，她说虽然不会改动任何内容，但信息量实在太大了。

And I remember talking with my editor about, you know, she said I wouldn't change any of it but it's just so much.

读者会被这些接踵而至的可怕事件压得喘不过气。

The reader feels overwhelmed by all these terrible acts, things that are happening.

我说：是的，你说得对。

And I said, Yeah, you're right.

于是我回去添加了一个小场景：祖父在生日这天带着孩子们去塞萨洛尼基的一座塔楼进行特别郊游。

So I went back in and I inserted a little scene about the grandfather taking the kids up to a tower in Thessalonica on a special field trip day for a birthday.

那叫白塔，当孩子们登顶时都开心极了，因为他们不仅进去了，还成功到达了塔顶。

And it was a thing called the White Tower and they get to the top and all the kids are having this great time because they got to go in and they got to go all the way to the top of the tower.

祖父向他们解释这里曾经叫红塔，是座监狱。

Their grandfather explains to them that it used to be called the Red Tower and that it used to be a prison.

之所以叫红塔，是因为过去人们被从塔顶扔下，鲜血会将塔染红。

And it was called the Red Tower because they used to throw people off the roof of it and they would die in the red from the blood, you know.

孩子问道，那么，它是怎么变成白塔的呢？

And the kid says, Well, how did it become the White Tower?

他解释说，曾经有个囚犯被关在那里，这座塔因无数杀戮而污秽不堪，镇上的人想粉刷它，但没人愿意接这活儿，因为塔身巨大，工程艰巨。

And he says, Well, there was a man who was imprisoned and the tower itself was so dirty from all these killings rest of it that the town wanted it painted, but nobody wanted to paint it because it's too tough a job, because it was this massive huge tower and nobody wanted to do it.

这个囚犯提出，如果放他自由，他愿意独自完成粉刷工作。

And this prisoner offered to do it by himself if they would set him free.

由于他当初是因与妻子有关的激情犯罪之类被囚，他们同意了这个条件。他独自粉刷了整个塔，最终获得了自由。

And because he had been imprisoned for like a crime of passion or something with his wife or something and so they let him do it and he painted the whole tower by himself and they set him free.

祖父问孙子：你从这个故事学到了什么？

And the grandfather says to his grandson, What do you learn from that?

孙子反问：什么？

And he said, What?

祖父说：一个渴望被宽恕的人会付出所有。

He said, A man to be forgiven will do anything.

这个安静而温馨的片段穿插在其他情节中，正是它奏效的关键。

And it was this quiet kind of sweet sort of moment that the insertion of it amidst these other things was what made it work.

如果放在别处就会显得突兀或不必要，会成为偏离主线的插曲。但正因我们需要喘息之机，它才恰到好处，并在故事后期发挥了重要作用。

If I had put it someplace else it would have been out of place or unnecessary or would have been a deviation but because we needed to take a breath, it worked and it ended up serving purpose for the story much, much later on.

所以有时候你要做的是监测读者的心跳频率。

So sometimes what you're doing is you're monitoring the heart of your reader.

他们的心跳是否过快？

Is their heartbeat getting too fast?

此刻是否从健康的奔跑变成了恐怖体验——天啊，我必须停下来。

Is it starting now instead of being a healthy run, this is now turning into a scary experience where like, my God, I need to stop.

稍微降低一点强度，把之前讨论的马拉松中的那座山移出去，你知道的，把它稍微拉平一点。

Bring it down a little bit, you know, take the hill out of the out of the marathon that we were talking about earlier, you know, flatten it flatten it out a little bit.

所以很大程度上是节奏问题，作为讲故事的人，你必须对此有感觉。

So a lot of it is pace, and you have to have just a feel for that as a storyteller.

然后很大一部分在于渐强效果。

And then a lot of it is crescendo.

你知道，没人想过早达到高潮。

You know, nobody wants to peak too soon.

也没人想过晚达到高潮。

Nobody wants to peak too too too late.

你不想把所有精彩内容都留到书的最后一章。

You know, you don't wanna save everything good for the last chapter of the book.

我从电影制作中学到很多，因为我确实写电影剧本，这是相当不同的体验。

I learn a lot from movie making because I do write movies and it's quite a different experience.

比尔·戈德曼关于电影行业冒险的书里解释过，电影最后七分钟发生的动作戏往往比前一个半小时还多。

Bill Goldman's book about adventures in the screen trade, he explains that the more action happens in the last seven minutes of a movie than often happens in the first hour and a half of it.

然而作为观众，你会接受这点，因为不知怎的我们已经习惯电影有这种大收尾。

And yet, as the viewer, you accept that because somehow we've come to expect our movies to sort of have these big wrap ups.

如果实际测量，大概就是七分钟。

If you actually measure it, it's like seven minutes.

七分钟内爱情线收尾，谋杀案收尾，案件收尾，所有这些内容，没人反对因为它来得恰到好处。

And seven minutes the love story wraps up, the murder wraps up, the case wraps up, all this stuff, and nobody objects to it because somehow you're ready for it.

这就是观影者的体验。

That's the experience of the moviegoer.

你必须理解读者的体验，他们何时需要轻松一下，何时需要幽默，何时该分章节，这很重要。

Well you have to also understand the experience of a reader and when do they want some relief, when do they want some humor, when do you break a chapter, That's a big thing.

或者说，我经常在某个节点暂停故事——虽然不确定效果如何——但我擅长在特定时刻搁置情节，留下悬念，让读者渴望回到那个场景。

Or how do you hang I work a lot at I don't know if I'm good or not, but I work a lot at stopping the story at a particular point and leaving it putting a pin in it and coming back over here and having people go, want to get back to that.

要知道，你得稍等片刻。

Know, you're gonna have to wait a second.

懂吗？

You know?

必须等待。

Gonna have to wait.

就像我叔叔在餐桌上那样。

It's like my uncle's at the dinner table.

他就在那儿。

There he was.

我们已经翻过山头了，你明白吗？

We're over the hill, and we're you know?

但首先，这边他们正在做这个。

But but first, over here, they were doing this.

所以如果你足够高明，就能让观众在这边保持期待，同时在那边也埋下伏笔。

So, you know, you you if if you're good, you know, you you can keep them up bouncing up in the air over here, and you can do something over here as well.

是啊。

Yeah.

听你说的时候，我脑海里浮现了色轮的形象。

Had the image of a color wheel as you were saying that.

一个色轮。

A color wheel.

是的。

Yeah.

有点像在骑行，又像是不同的颜色交织，不过，嘿。

Sort of riding, and sort of in different colors, and but, hey.

你知道，我沉浸在蓝色中已经很久了。

You know, I've been on blue for a long time.

我正逐渐陷入那种深蓝，有点过头了。

I'm kinda getting to that deep blue, it's a little much.

现在我要切换到橙色了。

Now I'm going flip over to orange.

橙色是蓝色的对比色，蓝色会强化橙色，橙色也会强化蓝色，这样我们就能在色轮上循环往复，对吧。

Orange is the contrast to blue, the blue amplifies to orange, the orange amplifies to blue, and then we can kind of keep working our way around Right.

颜色

The color

非常准确，正是这样。

Very much, that's exactly it.

如果你想加入时间维度，它就会变得立体起来。

And then it becomes three-dimensional if you want to work about time.

就像我在《Twice》中同时讲述多个故事时，必须用一个章节的结尾暗示我们将跳转到另一个时间点，但要确保这种转换此刻是合理的。

So if you're telling multiple stories as I do in Twice for example, you've got to end one chapter with a suggestion that we're going to go to some other time but it's going to make sense that this comes now.

你知道，他看着那块墓碑，想起了他的母亲。

You know, he looked at the, you know, tombstone and it made him think of his of his mother.

或者他只是看着墓碑，被回忆淹没。

Or he just looked at the tombstone and he was overwhelmed with the memory.

停。

Stop.

下一章，你知道的，现在他和母亲在一起，或是他小时候的情景之类的。

Next chapter, you know, now he's with his mother or when he was a kid or something like that.

所以在上一个场景结束和下一个场景开始之间需要某种联系，你明白的。

So there's some sort of tie between where you left off in that scene and and why you're beginning in the next one, you know.

而且每本书都不同。

And every every book's different.

我是说，有些书是用多重声音讲述的。

I mean, there are the books that are told in multiple voices.

这是个挑战，你知道的。

That's a that's a challenge, you know.

你什么时候从一个声音切换到下一个？

When do you go from one to the to the next?

什么时候再转回来？

When do you return?

距离上次听到那个角色的声音已经多久了？

How long has it been since we've heard from that last person?

我们还会回到那个角色吗？

Do we come back?

有些故事是在两个不同世纪里展开的。

There's ones that are told in two different centuries.

你知道吗？

You know?

那么你什么时候讲述本世纪的故事，什么时候回到过去？

So when do you tell one in this century, and when do you go back?

你知道吗？

You know?

有些故事是倒叙的，比如那部电影《记忆碎片》，明白吗，它必须逆向推进情节。

There's there's ones that are that are told backwards, you know, like, Memento, that movie, you know, it's gotta work its way backwards.

这是个挑战，要知道，你必须用特定的方式讲述。

That's a challenge, you know, and you have to tell that a certain way.

所以这完全取决于你选择的结构，但在我看来，一切都与节奏有关。

So it all depends on the structure that you've chosen, but all of it in my mind is about rhythm.

这就是为什么我认为自己很幸运，作为作家时没意识到，但作为音乐人却受益匪浅。

And this is why I think I've been blessed as I didn't realize as a writer but to have been a musician.

我在说话、写作、音乐创作等方面都有天生的节奏感。

I have an innate sense of rhythm in my speaking, in my writing, in my music writing and all that.

你大概能感觉到什么时候文思泉涌，什么时候卡壳。

And you sort of know when you're on a roll and when things are going and when you're not.

我妻子多年前就观察到这一点，她非常敏锐。

My wife made this observation many years ago and she's very astute.

她说：你知道吗，你写作时有时会前后摇晃，但有时会停下来。

She said, You know when you write, sometimes she would sit in my office, she said, When you write you rock back and forth, but sometimes you stop.

你停下来的时候是怎么回事？

What's going on when you stop?

我思考过这个问题，我说，当我停下来时就不起作用了。

And I thought about it, I said, It's not working when I stop.

而当我这样做时，它就能正常运作。

And when I'm doing this it's working.

所以我可以阅读正在处理的段落，或者撰写它，感觉就像，嗯，不错。

And so I can read a paragraph that I'm working on or I can write it or, and it's like, okay good.

但突然间如果是，我必须在这里做，停下，好吧，我得修正一些东西。

But all of a sudden if it's, do I have to do here, stop, Okay, I gotta fix something.

不是的，等等，大家都停下。

It's not, hold up, everybody stop.

停下这趟旅程。

Stop the ride.

我们要在这里敲定几件事。

We're gonna hammer a few things in here.

好的，让我们回到正题。

Okay, let's go back.

这就是我，当我告诉你我反复重读时，很多时候只是为了节奏感。

And that's how I, when I told you I reread and I reread, a lot of it is just for rhythm.

在我新闻生涯中收到过最高的赞誉之一，就是人们说，你知道吗，当我读你的专栏时，仿佛刚开始就已经读到结尾了。

And one of the highest compliments I've ever gotten in my newspaper life was when people say, You know, when I read your column, like I start and I'm at the end already.

你知道，就像很多其他文章我读着读着不得不停下，回头重读段落，因为遗漏了什么或诸如此类。

You know, like it just and so many other ones I read and then I have to stop and I have to go back and read the paragraph again because I lost something or whatever.

但我不清楚你的文章有何魔力，但我从开头读起，就能顺畅地直达结尾。

But I don't know what it is about yours, but I start at the beginning and I kind of just get right to the end.

我知道那是什么，是节奏。

And I know what it is, it's rhythm.

要知道，你写作时的节奏不会干扰读者阅读时的节奏感，他们可以就这样一直读下去。

Know, you write with a rhythm that doesn't disturb the reader's of their sense of rhythm as they're reading it, and they just can kind of keep going.

句子有意义，它们彼此流畅衔接。

The sentences make sense, They flow into one another.

观点也相互自然过渡。

The ideas flow into one another.

甚至句子本身的韵律也融入其中，让你能顺畅读到结尾。

Even the cadence of the of the actual sentence itself flows into it, and you can get to the bottom.

明白吗？

You know?

就像听到歌曲的尾声。

You get to the end of the song.

写作也是如此。

And writing is like that too.

我喜欢节奏这个概念，因为它是先于理性认知的。

What I like about rhythm as an idea is that it's pre intellectual.

比如在酒吧或咖啡馆，听到喜欢的歌时，我的身体比大脑更早意识到这种喜欢。

You know, if I'm at a bar or I'm at a coffee shop and there's a song that I like, my body knows that I like it before my mind does.

我的身体会不自觉地摆动摇晃。

My body's kind of moving and grooving and shaking.

然后，我甚至会感觉到脚在打拍子。

And then, like, I'll even feel my foot tapping.

然后，哦，

And then, oh,

怎么了？

what's on?

这是什么？

What is this?

哦，哦，我其实很喜欢这首歌。

Oh, oh, I actually like this song.

好吧。

Alright.

发生什么事了？

What's going on?

好的，我们去听听歌词吧。

And okay, let's go listen to the words.

这就是我喜欢音乐的原因——爱上歌曲有一个完整的过程，从身体的直觉反应到心灵的共鸣，再到音乐中那些明确的部分。

And that's what I like about music is that there's a whole sequencing with falling in love with the song that goes from the body, the intuitive self to the mind, and the sort of explicit part of the music.

这就是为什么在美国音乐节目中，评价唱片时他们总是首先提到这点。

That's why in American bandstand, that was always the first thing that they always said when they rated the records.

我喜欢它的节奏。

I liked the beat.

所以保罗·西蒙接受采访时说——我认为他是我们这个时代最伟大的词曲作者之一，或许是最棒的——他创作时总是从节奏开始。

And, that's why Paul Simon, when he was interviewed, and I consider him one of the great songwriters of our time, maybe the best, he said he writes, he starts with the rhythm.

保罗·西蒙是我们最具诗意的词曲作者之一，但他从打击乐和节奏入手进行创作，正因如此，他的许多作品如此美妙，因为它们是节奏与抒情的完美融合。

And Paul Simon is one of the most poetic songwriters we have but he starts with the percussion and the rhythm of it and writes to it and that's why I think so many of his, you know, his compositions are so beautiful because they're a meshing of the rhythmic with the lyrical.

他会因为节奏需要而重复某句歌词。

He'll repeat a line just because it works with the rhythm.

虽然没有真正的理由重复，但他会配合节奏这样做。

There's no real reason to repeat it but he'll work with the rhythm.

不现场演奏的话很难解释清楚。

It's hard to explain without playing it for you.

对或错，哦对或错，你从未帮我们和睦相处，你说你在乎我，但你的诚实背后毫无温柔。

Right or wrong, oh right or wrong, you never helped us get along You say you care for me but there's no tenderness beneath your honesty.

喔，喔，喔。

Whoop, whoop, whoop.

你知道那是个词句与节奏完美融合的例子。

You know that's a beautiful little meshing of words and rhythm.

甚至没意识到，但细想他为何重复，他说对或错，说了两次，就是'对或错，对或错，哦'。

Don't even realize it but if you break it down why did he repeat, he said right or wrong and he said it twice and it's right or wrong, right or wrong, oh.

这从未让我们和睦相处，看，虽然和这个模式不完全相同，但它有种特定的节拍。

It never helped us get along, know, that's not really the same pattern as this, but it has a certain beat to it.