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这就是如何成为一个更好的人。
This is how to be a better human.
我是你们的主持人，达菲。
I'm your host, Duffy.
如果非要我选一项技能，认为它对恋爱、友谊、工作，甚至做个好人最重要，那一定是清晰表达的能力。
If I had to pick one skill that I think is the most important for romantic relationships, for friendships, for working, and honestly, for just being a good person overall, it would be how to communicate clearly.
我之所以这么想，是因为我发现自己无数次感到沮丧、不满，后来才意识到，问题出在我根本没跟相关的人说清楚：我期待什么、想要什么、打算怎么做。
And I think that because I cannot tell you the amount of times that I have found myself frustrated and resentful and then realized it was because I didn't actually tell anyone else who was involved, the person or people, what I was hoping for, what my expectations were, what I was trying to do.
我最敬重的那些专业人士，往往都是那些能非常清楚地说出自己目标和实现路径的人。
And the people that I respect the most professionally, they're so often the ones who are able to articulate very clearly what they're going for and how they wanna get there.
你明白我在说什么吧？
You know what I'm talking about?
我真的希望你懂，因为如果一集讲‘如何清晰沟通’的节目，开场却说得含糊不清、表达糟糕，那可就太讽刺了。
I really hope that you do because it's not lost on me that it would be incredibly ironic for the introduction to an episode about how to communicate clearly to be very unclear and poorly communicated.
不管我今天表现得怎么样，我敢说有一个人，从来不会在沟通上出任何问题，他就是我们今天的嘉宾，马特·阿布拉姆斯。
Now regardless of how I'm doing, I can tell you I know one person who does not ever have any problems with communication, and that is our guest today, Matt Abrahams.
他是斯坦福大学战略沟通课的讲师。
He is a lecturer on strategic communication at Stanford.
他主持着《快速思考，明智表达》播客，还写了新书《想得快，说得准》。
He is the host of the Think Fast Talk Smart podcast, and he is the author of the new book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter.
如何在被突然问到时依然说得漂亮。
How to speak successfully when you're put on the spot.
下面这段是马特在TED演讲中的片段。
Here's a clip from Matt's TED Talk.
回想一下，你上一次被突然问到是什么时候？
Think back to the last time you were put on the spot.
有人问了你一个问题，要你提意见，得聊点闲天，或者只是简单做个自我介绍。
Somebody asked you a question, they requested feedback, you had to make small talk, or maybe just introduce yourself.
那时候感觉怎么样？
How did it feel?
如果你和大多数人一样，那感觉一定很尴尬、不自在，还特别紧张。
If you're like most people, it felt awkward, uncomfortable and probably nerve racking.
有准备的沟通，比如演讲、提案、有议程的会议，已经够难了。
Planned communication, those presentations, the pitches, the meetings with agendas, those are hard enough.
但当我们必须即兴发言时，那就真的很有挑战了。
But when we have to speak in the moment on the spot, that can be really tough.
不过好消息是，只要稍加准备和练习，我们都能进步。
But the good news is with a little preparation and practice, we can all get better.
只要改变我们应对这些情况的方式，就能更从容、更自信、更有说服力。
By changing the way we approach these situations, we can be more comfortable, more confident and more compelling.
我们大多数人沟通时，都希望做到完美。
Most of us when we communicate, we want to do it right.
都想给出最棒的回答、最有趣的反馈，或者最精彩的闲聊。
We want to give the best answer, the most interesting feedback, the best small talk we can have.
可这种自我施加的压力，反而让我们连话都说不好。
That pressure we put on ourselves can make it hard to do it well at all.
首先，沟通根本没有标准答案。
To begin, there is no right way to communicate.
有更好和更差的方式，但没有唯一正确的方式。
There are better ways and worse ways, but there is no one right way.
所以别总想着完美，咱们得把注意力放在别处。
So instead of looking for perfection, we need to focus elsewhere.
好的。
Okay.
马上我们就跟马特深入聊聊，你到底该把重点放在哪儿。
In just a moment, we are gonna talk a lot more with Matt about exactly where you should be focusing.
不过在那之前，咱们先插个广告，聊聊播客赞助的内容。
But first, we're gonna take a quick detour to the elsewhere that is podcast ads.
马上回来。
We will be right back.
别走开。
Don't go anywhere.
我们回来了。
And we are back.
今天我们请到了马特·阿布拉姆斯，聊聊如何清晰地表达。
We're talking today with Matt Abrahams about how to communicate clearly.
你好。
Hi.
我是马特·阿布拉姆斯。
I'm Matt Abrahams.
我特别热衷于沟通这件事。
I am passionate about communication.
我教这门课。
I teach it.
我写了《快速思考，聪明表达》这本书，还主持一档叫《快速思考，聪明表达》的播客。
I write about it in Think Faster, Talk Smarter, and I host a podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart.
马特，很高兴你来参加我们的节目。
Matt, I'm so glad that you're on the show.
我一直是你的播客粉丝，书我也特别喜欢。
I am a really big fan of your podcast, and I loved your book.
因为我特别喜欢你的书，我必须问你一句：如果你是一颗洋葱，我剥掉前三层，会看到什么？
And because I loved your book, I have to ask you, if you were an onion and I peeled back the first three layers, what would I find?
你是在说一次特别紧张的面试经历。
You are referring to an incredibly intense interview situation I had.
我还在企业工作的时候，有一次去面试，一路闯到了和CEO面谈的环节。我推门进去的时候，他已经在里面了。
I was interviewing for a job when I was working in the corporate world, and I made it to the round with the CEO, and I walk into the room, and there he was already.
这简直太不寻常了。
I mean, this is unheard of.
我本来以为自己得坐在那儿干等，啥事儿也干不了。
I expected I'd be sitting there twiddling my thumbs and all of that.
结果他就在那儿，一开口就问了我这个问题。
And there he is, and the first question he asks is that question.
那一刻我脑子一片空白，但还是本能地反应了。
And in that moment of panic in my mind, I immediately went for it.
我直接说了实话。
And I just told the truth.
洋葱让我流泪。
Onions make me cry.
然后我讲了个关于小鹿斑比和其他事情的故事，说情感对我有多重要。
And I then told a story about Bambi and other things, and how emotion is important to me.
我会把情感带进工作里。
And I bring emotion to work.
有时候这意味着我会特别兴奋。
And sometimes that means I get really excited.
有时候这意味着我会特别沮丧。
And sometimes that means I get really frustrated.
他听得笑得合不拢嘴。
And he just smiled from ear to ear.
后来我跟他熟了，就跟他说，你那反应真奇怪。
And later I got to know him quite well, and I said, that was a weird response.
他说，我早就听腻了别人讲什么深藏不露的内心秘密。
He goes, I was so tired of people talking about some deep hidden thing inside them.
他说，你很真实，这一点很明显。
He said, you were genuine, and it was clear.
这进一步说明了真诚有多重要。
And that just reinforces how authenticity is important.
在这些即兴的时刻，我们只能全身心投入，勇敢去做。
And in these moments of spontaneity, we just have to commit and go for it.
你知道吗，作为一个写书、思考并教授沟通的人，我觉得你提到的这一点特别精彩——那就是展现我们真实的情绪，不是我们该有的情绪，而是像‘我紧张’这样的感受。
You know, as a person who writes and thinks and teaches communication, I think that hits on one of the really incredible parts that you highlight in your work, which is how highlighting our emotion, the actual real emotion we're feeling, not what we're supposed to feel, but like, I'm nervous.
我感到尴尬。
I'm embarrassed.
我可能会哭出来。
I might start crying.
这往往是有效沟通的关键。
That is the key to great communication often.
我觉得这和很多人认为的有效沟通的起点恰恰相反。
And I think it's really the opposite of what a lot of people think great communication starts with.
你能再详细说说这一点吗？
So can you tell us a little bit more about that?
克里斯，你说到点子上了，这关乎真实，关乎做真实的自己。我们本来就是有情感的人，要允许情感流露，表达出来，接纳它。
I I think you hit on something, Chris, that's really important, and and it's about authenticity, and it's about really being who you are, and and we are emotional beings, and allowing that emotion to come out and to really express it and to embrace it.
在人工智能盛行的时代，保持人性、展现这些情感，才是真正关键的区别。
And in a world of AI, being human and expressing those emotions really is what makes difference.
人工智能会削弱真实感，而我们通过沟通，恰恰有机会建立真正的连接。
AI blunts authenticity and we have an opportunity through our communication to really connect.
归根结底，沟通的核心就是连接与共情。
At the end of the day, communication is all about connection and empathy.
事实上，有些研究进化生物学的人认为，沟通本质上就是共情的工具。
In fact, there are people who study evolutionary biology and they believe communication is simply a tool for empathy.
它就是被付诸实践的共情。
It's operationalized empathy.
如果真是这样，那这一切都离不开情感和连接。
And if that's the case, that's all about emotion and connection.
明白了。
Okay.
我完全同意你的观点。
So I really agree with you for sure on that.
听到你这么说，我其实挺意外的。
And I'm actually surprised to hear you say that about AI.
一方面，你是斯坦福的讲师，而斯坦福显然是个非常注重科技的地方。
One, because you're a a lecturer at Stanford, which is, you know, obviously, like a very tech centric place.
另一方面，你的网站上还提供一个AI聊天工具，帮助人们提升演讲能力。
And two, because on your website, you have, like, an AI map that people can chat with and and get help with their own speaking thing.
所以你对AI持这种保留态度，倒是挺有意思，因为你显然不是那种完全排斥AI的人。
So it's interesting to hear that skepticism about AI because you're obviously not like an a never AI person.
不是的。
No.
你自己的工作里也在用它。
You use it in your own work.
是的。
So Yeah.
对我来说，这里存在一个共情悖论。
So to me, there's an empathy paradox here.
AI 其实能够培养共情。
And AI can actually really empathy.
它能帮助我们更好地理解沟通对象，也更好地理解自己——而这正是连接的本质。
It can help us to better understand those we communicate with and better understand ourselves, which is really what that connection is all about.
但如果我们只依赖 AI 来应对最棘手的沟通场景，比如必须裁员或给出建设性反馈时，全让大模型替我们决定说什么，那我们就错过了真正思考和感受的过程，而这些恰恰是人性的一部分。
But if all we do is rely on AI to help us in the most challenging of our communication situations, I have to lay somebody off at work, I have to give constructive feedback, and I just let the LLM tell me what to say, then I'm not actually engaging in that deep thought and feeling process that is part of being human.
所以，使用 AI 时，容易产生一种共情冷漠的现象。
So there's this notion of empathy apathy that develops when using an AI.
AI 工具确实非常有用。
So AI tools can be incredibly helpful.
就像你说的，我有个 AI 聊天机器人，是我以前的学生做的，很多人用起来都觉得有帮助。
As you said, I have an AI chatbot that a former student of mine created, and people find value in it.
事实上，我妻子有时候宁愿跟它聊天，也不愿意跟我聊，她说它真的更会听人说话。
In fact, my wife prefers talking to it sometimes over me, because she says it actually listens better.
所以AI确实有它的用处。
So there is utility for AI for sure.
我用它来辅助教学和思考，但我们必须确保它不会削弱那些让我们独特而有人性的东西——也就是同理心和建立连接的能力。
I use it to help in the teaching I do, and in the thinking I do, but we wanna make sure that it doesn't blunt that fundamental thing that makes us unique and human, which is our empathy and ability to connect.
您是我非常敬重的人，我特别欣赏您思考这些问题的方式。
You're someone who I really respect your work, and I really respect the way you think about these things.
您十多年以来一直在探讨如何让人与人之间更好地连接，对吧？
And you've been talking about how to connect better human to human for more than a decade.
没错。
Right?
您研究这个问题的时间比这还要久得多。
You've been way, way long longer than
您是说我老了，好吧，算您说对了。
I think you're calling me old, but okay.
我本来想说几十年，但怕这么说太夸张，就忍住了，不过现在我还是说几十年吧。
I was trying I actually stopped myself from saying decades because I didn't wanna say that, but I will say decades now.
我做这一行已经很久了。
I've been doing this for a while.
是的。
Yes.
这些白发都是我熬出来的。
I've earned these gray hairs.
对。
Yes.
我觉得有意思的是，你既回归到人与人之间最根本的连接，又愿意去审视新技术，看看它们怎么影响我们，却不丢掉真正重要的东西。
And, you know, something that I think is is interesting then is you go back to the the really, basics of human to human connection, but then you're also willing to look at new technologies and how they can influence without losing the core of what really matters.
你书里最后讲了一个特别有意思的故事，是关于你练空手道、拿到黑带的经历，说你拿到黑带后发生的事完全出乎意料，还去问了你的教练。
You have a great story towards the end of your book that's about, being a, karate student and getting your black belt, and how you're really surprised by what happened after you got your black belt and you talked to your karate teacher.
能讲讲这个故事吗？
Can you tell that story please?
是的，我练武已经四十年了。
Yes, so I have been a martial artist for four decades.
我这就把这四十年说给你听。
I'll give you the decades there.
很好。
Great.
现在你要是说出来了，那就没问题了。
Now if you give it, then it's fine.
哦，行，那就好。
Oh, all right, good.
对，你没点破我。
Yeah, you're not calling me out.
没有，这对我来说特别重要，通过这段训练，我对自己和别人都有了很多新的认识。
No, and it's a very important part of who I am, I've learned a lot about myself and others through that training.
拿到第一个黑带可不是小事。
And getting your first black belt is a big deal.
你得付出极大的努力才能得到它。
You work really hard for it.
我拿到段位后去见我的教练、我的师父，他对我说：你该为自己感到骄傲。
And my instructor, my sensei, after achieving my rank, I came to him and he said, you should be very proud.
你真的付出了很多。
You worked very hard.
然后他停了一下，说：好了，现在咱们开始吧。
And then he paused and said, and now let's get started.
我当时彻底震惊了，以为自己已经登顶了。
And that blew my mind because I thought I had just summited the mountain.
某种程度上，我确实登顶了。
And in some ways I did.
我的意思是，到达那里很重要，但那只是开始。
I mean, getting there was important, but it's just the beginning.
我觉得这特别像人生的隐喻。
And I think this is a great metaphor for life.
总还有东西可学，总还有目标可追求，也总要回头看看自己走过的路，想想还能走多远。
There's always learning to have and to accomplish more and to really reflect on where you've come, but where you can still go.
那件事过去几十年了，但我至今依然深深感激。
And this is many decades later since that happened and I truly appreciate it.
事实上，因为那段经历，我现在也到了可以为别人授予黑带的阶段，我会对她们说同样的话。
And in fact, because of my experience, I have now in a position where I award people their black belts and I say the same thing to them.
我希望把当年学到的这个道理传下去：成就固然可贵，但永远有更多值得学习的，关键在于持续投入和坚持。
And I pass down hopefully the lesson that I learned that accomplishment is great, but there's always more to learn, and it takes that commitment and dedication to continue.
这个故事我太喜欢了。
I love that story.
所以我特意请你讲出来，因为我觉得大家一定会很喜欢。
So I wanted you to share it just because I think people are gonna love it.
但我之所以现在提起这个，还有个原因：我觉得不管是面对AI和大语言模型，还是公开演讲，人们往往太执着于结果了。
But the other reason why I wanted to bring it up right now in this conversation is because it strikes me that with AI and LLMs, but also with public speaking, people often get so fixated on the product.
重点不是非得把演讲的最后一页讲完不可。
It's not about, like, getting to the end of your toast.
重点在于你怎么写这段祝词，通过写祝词去理解你和在场这些人之间的关系为什么如此重要。
It's about how can you write the toast and through the toast understand why your relationship to these people that you're talking to is so important.
你怎么给出反馈，才能真正帮你自己理解，也帮对方理解。
How can you give feedback in a way that really actually helps you to understand, helps the other person to understand.
你的书里大部分讲的都是过程，而不仅仅是结果，不只是你最终说了什么话。
So much of your book is about the process, not just the product, not just how do you get to the thing you say.
没错。
Right.
你把那些用于这个过程的框架拆解得特别清晰，容易懂，也特别实用。
And one of the things that you have broken down in such an easy to understandable and usable way is these frameworks that you can use for that process.
是的。
Yeah.
我们都经历过特别糟糕的祝词。
Well, we've all been victimized by really bad toasts.
那种拖得太长、焦点全在讲的人身上，而不是寿星身上的祝词，还满是圈内人才懂的梗，外人根本听不懂。
Toasts toasts that go on too long or about the person giving the toast, not the person who's getting the toast, such insider knowledge that it's not understandable.
我觉得喜剧最让我震惊的一点就是，五分钟其实特别短。
That's the number one thing that I think, was eye opening for me about comedy is how short a time, like, five minutes is.
你总觉得，五分钟嘛，时间长着呢。
You think, like, I have five minutes is so long.
我都能把所有话都说完了。
I could say everything.
可真到了五分钟的表演时，
And then what a five minute spot.
你才会发现，哇，
You're like, wow.
这五分钟怎么过得这么快。
That went by way faster.
我觉得
And I think
是啊
Oh, yeah.
婚礼上经常这样，大家以为我只讲了九十秒，其实已经过了二十分钟。
That happens at weddings a lot where people think I probably spoke for ninety seconds and it was twenty minutes.
没错。
That's right.
当你站在台上时，时间的感知真的会变样。
No, the perception of time morphs when you're on the spot.
接下来我想分享一个特别有效的祝酒词结构。
So in a moment, I wanna share one of the frameworks, one of the structures I think works really well for giving toasts.
但我也想强调，在所有沟通中，你的心态和方式，和你说的内容一样重要。
But I want to also mention that in all communication, mindset and approach matters just as much as what you say.
我们得好好应对紧张情绪，这方面我有很多建议可以分享。
And so we really have to work on our anxiety and anxiety management, and I'm happy to share ideas about that.
我们得想想该怎么看待眼前的局面。
We have to think about how we frame the situation.
这到底是机会，还是威胁？
Is this an opportunity, a threat to us?
所有这些都很重要，这样才能把沟通——不管是祝酒词还是致敬——做到最好。
All of that matters so that we can actually deliver the best, whatever the communication is, in this case, a toast or tribute.
你说得对，我们确实经常需要说祝酒词和致意。
And you're right, we do a lot of toast and tributes.
对我来说，结构其实就是个框架：开头、中间、结尾。
So a structure to me is nothing more than a framework, a beginning, a middle and an end.
我不想一股脑儿把想到的东西全倒出来，让听众跟着我边说边摸索我到底想表达什么。
So I don't just want to rattle off a whole bunch of things and take people on a journey of my discovery of what I'm saying while I'm saying it.
我们真正该做的是，给出一个清晰聚焦的表达。
Rather what we want to do is we want to have a really focused offering.
从很多角度看，祝酒词是一种礼物，不仅送给被致敬的人或团队，也送给在场的每一个人。
In many ways, a toast is a gift that you're giving, not just to the person or people or team that you're giving the tribute to, but to everybody.
我有一个非常简单的框架。
So I have a very simple framework.
它叫 WHAT，W-H-A-T。
It's called WHAT, W H A T.
W代表‘我们为什么在这里？’
The W is why are we here?
给大家一些背景信息。
Give people some context.
如果是婚礼，这部分不用讲太多。
Now, if you're at a wedding, you don't have to spend that much time on it.
大家心里都明白，对吧？
People get it, right?
但要是我在全员大会上，突然要表扬一个完成了一项成就的团队，我就得先说明背景，让大家知道接下来要致敬的是哪个团队。
But if I'm at a all hands meeting and all of a sudden I'm gonna give a tribute to a team that accomplished something, I have to give that context so people know I'm about to give the tribute to the team.
所以先从背景说起，讲清楚我们为什么聚在这里。
So you start with the context, the why are we here?
然后说明你和这个群体、这个场合的关系。
And then explain how you're connected to the group, to this event.
如果台下有些人认识我，有些人不认识，我就得让那些不认识我的人明白，我为什么站在这里。
If I'm up in front of people who some know me and some don't, I need to let those others know why I'm here.
再说一次，如果是全员大会，我是领导，就不必特意说‘我是领导’，大家心里都有数；但如果是婚礼，很多人根本不知道我为啥在这儿。
Now, again, if it's the all hands meeting and I'm the boss, I don't have to say, and I'm the boss, people get But if I'm at a wedding, many of the folks aren't gonna know why me?
我凭什么站在这儿讲话？
Why am I the one speaking?
那你跟这个场合有什么关系？
So how are you connected to the event?
搞清楚这一点之后，接下来就要讲一两个小故事。
And once you've done that, then the next piece is to share an anecdote or two.
讲个简短的经历，带出你想传达的那点价值。
A quick story that demonstrates something of value that you want to share.
故事得有温度、接地气，让谁都容易产生共鸣。
It should highlight something that is emotional and approachable and available for everyone.
这些内容最好先找别人听听，看看他们怎么反馈。
You should test these out with other people so they can validate.
我们自己往往最看不清自己说的话和怎么说的。
We are not the best judges of what we say and how we say it.
所以先讲一两个小故事，最后再做个祝酒或致谢。
So an anecdote or two, and then some kind of toast or thanks that comes in the end.
这个T指的就是这个意思。
And that's what the T stands for.
也就是给整个讲话做个收尾。
So some way of wrapping it up.
如果你按这个结构来，也就是先说‘是什么’，再讲‘为什么我们在这儿’。
And if you follow that structure, the what structure, why are we here?
你和这个活动有什么关系？
How are you connected?
讲一两个故事，结尾再致谢或祝酒，这样你的发言会简洁、清晰，又让人印象深刻。
Anecdote or two, and then a thank or a toast at the end, it will keep you concise, clear, and memorable.
我得告诉你，在我斯坦福商学院的战略沟通课上，最后一课就是教学生怎么祝酒，然后让他们每人给自己的学习经历敬一杯。
And I have to tell you, in my class, the very last thing I do in my strategic communication class at Stanford's business school is we teach our students how to give a toast and they give a toast to their learning.
我会放一段视频，我提这个是因为这位是喜剧演员，乔恩·斯图尔特。
But I show a video, and the reason I bring this up is it's a comedian, it's Jon Stewart.
很多年前，那时候巴拉克·奥巴马还是总统，每年他都会把一些奖项颁给艺术界的人士。
Many, many years ago, and I'm taking us back to when Barack Obama was president, each year the president gets to give these awards to people in the arts.
那一年，他把奖颁给了布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀，还有其他人。
And that particular year he gave it to Bruce Springsteen among others.
当时由约翰·斯图尔特来致辞，向布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀致敬。
And he had John Stewart, or John Stewart was the person giving honor and homage to Bruce Springsteen.
他们之间当然有联系，都来自新泽西，诸如此类。
And obviously they have a connection, they're from New Jersey, all of this.
这可能是我见过最棒的祝酒词了，我强烈建议大家去网上找来看看。
It is quite possibly the best toast I have ever seen, and I and I encourage everybody to to find it online.
它完全做到了我说的这一点。
But it does exactly this.
每一个环节都严丝合缝地符合这个结构。
It follows the structure to the T.
没错，它特别幽默。
Yes, it's funny.
没错，这段致辞真感人，让人一下子明白了什么是好的祝酒词和致敬。
Yes, it's poignant, and it really gives people a good idea of what a good toast and tribute is.
我特别喜欢这一点。
I love that.
我觉得这个框架之所以这么棒，是因为我见过太多祝酒或致敬搞砸了，最常见的问题就是丢了真情。
And I think one of the reasons I think the what framework is so fantastic is because when I've seen toasts or tributes go wrong, the number one way they go wrong is that they lose the heart.
人生中能有机会当着众人的面，真心实意地告诉一个人你有多在乎他、多爱他，这种时刻本来就不多，要是拿这种机会讲点搞笑段子，那就太浪费了。
I just think there are so few opportunities in our lives where you get to just genuinely and emotionally and earnestly tell someone in front of a crowd how much you care about them and love them that to waste that opportunity on, like, a bit feels such squandering of an opportunity.
所以我觉得，哪怕你讲个特别搞笑的趣事，也一定要从头到尾带出你为什么在乎这个人。
So I love that if you have a really funny, silly anecdote, you still are opening and closing with why you care about this person.
说得太对了。
Exactly right.
如果你能从幽默欢快的情绪，自然过渡到真挚动人的表达，这种情感上的转折会让整个致辞更有力量。
And if you can take people from a place of humor and elation and also say something very poignant, that emotional shift also makes it more impactful.
如果光讲笑话，或者光煽情，大家也会有感受，但要是能把这两种情绪来回切换，效果就完全不一样了。
If all I do is tell jokes, or if all I do is be emotionally poignant, people have an experience there, but if you can traverse among those, really makes a big difference.
人们最常犯的错误有哪些？
What are the most common mistakes that people make?
听起来其中一个问题是时间太长，但还有哪些其他容易出错的地方呢？
It sounds like one of them is just timing, like going on for too long, but what are the other ways then which people mess this up?
我觉得最大的区别在于是否容易被理解，对吧？
So I think the biggest difference is accessibility, right?
我说的这些，每个人都能听懂吗？
How available is what I'm saying to everybody?
我讲的内容，大家能产生共鸣吗？
Am I tapping into something that people can connect to?
我不用非得跟你上过同一所小学，也能明白这个小故事里那种尴尬感。
I don't have to have been in your elementary school class to understand the awkwardness that this anecdote has.
但如果我讲得太细、太绕，反而会让人听不懂，把大家挡在外面。
But if I get really detailed in things and I get lost, then I'm missing out and I'm excluding people.
没人喜欢被排除在外。
We don't like to be excluded.
我看到很多无障碍问题，其实是演讲者把观众给排除在外了。
And a lot of the accessibility issues that I see are people are excluding folks from the audience.
他们讲的是一些经历，或者用一些别人根本听不懂的术语。
They're talking about experiences or using terminology that people just don't get.
那些能听懂的人会觉得特别有意思，但其他人就完全没感觉。
Now the ones who do appreciate it really enjoy it, and the rest don't.
所以你一定要尽量让内容对所有人都开放。
So you really want to be as open as possible.
在我看来，这正是普通演讲和精彩演讲之间最大的区别——能不能让每个人都产生共鸣？
And that to me is probably the single biggest differentiator between an okay toast and a really good toast, is can everybody appreciate it?
那我在准备演讲或故事的时候，该怎么找人来测试效果呢？
So when I am thinking about how to test my toast or my anecdote against another person, how do I pick that person?
该找什么样的人来帮我检验这个故事好不好？
Who's the right person to test my anecdote against?
我觉得每个人生活中都应该有几个不同类型的伙伴，各自承担不同的角色。
I think everybody should, in their lives, a couple different, people who fulfill a couple different roles for you.
你应该有个特别支持你的人，对吧？
There should be the person who is supportive beyond belief, right?
当你心情糟糕、只想发泄的时候，他们会一直在你身边。
They're gonna be the person who, when you have a bad day and you just need to vent, they're gonna be there for you.
你还需要一个能和你一起头脑风暴的人，帮你理清思路，该质疑的时候质疑，该支持的时候支持。
And you need the person who's going to be your ideation buddy, the person who's going to help you think through things and challenge you when needed, also support you.
然后你得有个唱反调的人，就是那种会不断向你提问题的人。
And then you need the person who's the devil's advocate, the person who is just, you know, they're gonna question you.
我读研的时候，有个女生和我关系很好，相处得也特别融洽，但她看世界的方式几乎和我完全相反。
When I was in graduate school, there was this woman who we were good friends, we got along great, but she saw the world almost directly opposite from me.
一开始我真是被气得够呛。
And at first it was frustrating as heck.
但后来我慢慢明白了，这其实让我变得更好。
But over time I came to really appreciate it because it made me a better person.
正是因为她的质疑，我的想法和观点才变得更扎实了。
My thoughts and ideas were better because of the challenge.
所以我觉得，如果你能找出这三类人，或者找到那些扮演这三种角色的人，那就是你该去求助的人。
And so I think if you can identify those three people, or those people fulfilling those three roles, those are the people you go to.
去找那个会说，这太棒了的人。
Go to the person who's going say, yeah, that's great.
他能真正看到你身上最出色的部分。
I really see how you're pulling out the best parts of yourself.
再去找那个唱反调的人，他会说，没人能懂这个，或者别人都会拿这个说事儿。
And go to the person who's devil's advocate saying, nobody's going to understand that, or everybody else is going to talk about that.
这才是你进步的方式。
And that's how you get better.
如果一个人说这太棒了，另一个人却说这太糟了，你该怎么办？
What do you do if one person says this is fantastic, another person goes this is terrible?
让我问你个问题。
Well, let me ask you this.
我猜你平时都会拿笑话去测试别人的反应吧。
I assume you test your jokes out with people.
当一个人说这太好笑了，另一个人却说根本没懂，这时候你怎么办？
What do you do when somebody says, oh, that's the funniest thing I've ever heard, and somebody else says, I didn't even get it.
我觉得你应该这么做，好吧，我来回答这个问题。
I think what you do, I mean, I'll answer the question.
也希望你能想想，就是你要去琢磨，为什么会出现这种分歧？
Hope that you answer it too, is I think you think about it and you say, why is there this tension?
我该怎么调整，才能让两个人都认同？
What could I do to bring it so that they both agree?
还是说，我其实能接受他们意见不一致？
Or am I comfortable with them not agreeing?
也许这样也没关系。
Maybe that's okay.
也许我宁愿保留这种不被所有人喜欢或理解的状态，但至少这是个有意识的决定。
Maybe I want to leave it out there where not everybody likes it or gets it, but at least it's a conscious choice.
归根结底，克里斯，我跟所有学生、所有我指导的人说，我的工作就是把习惯变成选择。
At the end of the day, Chris, I tell all my students, all the people I coach, my whole job is to turn habits into choices.
我们大多数人说话都是凭习惯，我只是希望人们能做出不同的选择，至少在行动前好好想想自己有哪些选项。
Most of us just communicate out of habit, and I just want people to make different choices, or at least consider the choices before them.
明白了。
Okay.
我们先插播一小段广告，给大家带来一些选择。
We're gonna take a quick break to present you with some choices in the form of podcast advertisements.
马上回来。
We'll be right back.
我们回来了。
And we are back.
我们之前聊过敬酒和给予正面反馈，但当你传递的是负面信息时，情况就更关键了。
We've talked about, like, making toasts and giving positive feedback, but I think the stakes are even higher when you are perhaps giving, bad information.
就像你说的，你要宣布裁员，或者因为做错事而道歉。
Like you said, you're you're announcing a round of layoffs, or you are apologizing because you did something wrong.
这些内容在你的书里也提到过。
These are things that you talk about in your book as well.
没错。
So Right.
在这些负面的、情绪更重的情况下，你是怎么看待沟通的？和平时有什么不同？
How do you think about communication in the same way in those kinds of negative or more loaded situations, and how do you think about it differently?
无论是正面还是负面的情况，核心原则都是一样的。
The fundamental principles apply to both positive negative situations.
关键是要以对方为中心，理解他们当下的感受。
It's really about being other focused and appreciating what's going on.
在道歉或提建设性意见的时候，负面情绪往往特别强烈，我们确实得正视它，弄清楚它意味着什么。
Often in these times of apologies or constructive feedback, emotion, negative emotion looms large, and we do have to think about that and what that means.
忽视情绪，反而会让自己事倍功半。
To ignore the emotion is to work against yourself.
所以我们得留心这一点。
So we have to be mindful of that.
但在这两种情况下，你最该想的都是：此刻对对方来说，什么才是最重要的。
But in both of those circumstances, you really need to think about what's most important for the other in this moment.
我该怎么表达这些信息，才能让他们受益，同时让关系继续下去？
And how can I best articulate the information so that they benefit and the relationship will continue?
如果我们知道以后不会再和这些人打交道，那我们传递信息的方式肯定会完全不同。
If we knew we weren't going to interact with these people again, then we would feel much differently about how we give that information.
我们先说说建设性的反馈。
So let's take constructive feedback first.
我总是说，这既关乎方式，也关乎表达。
I always talk about it's both approach and messaging.
在方式上，我把建设性反馈看作是一个需要解决的问题。
When it comes to approach, I like to see constructive feedback as a problem to be solved.
我在斯坦福商学院的一位同事，叫米歇尔·盖尔兰德，她非常出色，专门研究冲突。
One of my colleagues at Stanford Business School, her name is Michelle Gelfand, she's amazing, studies conflict.
她常说，我们要留意自己的隐喻。
She likes to say we have to mind our metaphors.
我们看待沟通的方式，决定了我们如何进行沟通。
The way we approach communication, the way we see it affects how we have it.
所以在谈判中，如果你把它看成一场战斗，这就会直接影响你的方式。
So if in a negotiation, see it as a battle that affects how I'm going to approach it.
但如果你把它看成一支舞，对吧？
Then if I see it as a dance, right?
所以我把建设性反馈当成一个需要解决的问题，这意味着我要邀请你和我一起看清这个问题，并请你帮我一起解决。
So I see constructive feedback as a problem to be solved, which means I have to invite you to see the problem the same way I do and invite you to help me solve it.
如果建设性反馈的本质是发出邀请，那我的做法就会和‘我是老师，我的任务就是教你怎么做对’完全不同。
If constructive feedback is about making an invitation, then that's going to affect how I approach it versus I'm a teacher and my job is to teach you how to do something right, I'm gonna approach it very differently.
对我来说，反馈就是要找到一种方式发出邀请，又不会让对方产生防御心理。
So to me, feedback is finding the right way to make an invitation that doesn't make the other person defensive.
我觉得最好的方法——我有一个固定的框架，叫‘四眼法’，因为每一步都以‘四眼加眼镜’开头，它能帮你更清楚地看清楚状况。
And I think the best way to do it, again, a structure that I have has, I call it the four eyes, because each step starts with the four eyes plus glasses, four eyes helps you see it more clearly.
第一步是信息。
First is information.
你得确保双方站在同一个起跑线上。
You have to have a level playing field.
这条反馈的核心就是这个。
Here is what the feedback is about.
我必须说得清清楚楚。
So I have to be very clear.
当你收到反馈时，你要明白，说的是这件事。
So when you're receiving the feedback, you know, it's about this.
不是什么笼统的批评。
It's not some generic thing.
第二，我得说明这个行为——或者没做这个行为——对我造成了什么影响。
Second, I have to talk about the impact of the behavior or lack of it on me.
这对我意味着什么？
What does it mean for me?
我不会说你总是迟到。
So I don't say you're always late.
我会说，你每次迟到的时候，我的感受是这样的。
I say, when you're late, I feel this way.
有时候你迟到，可能觉得这没什么大不了的。
Because sometimes you're being late, you might not think it has consequence.
所以我是在帮你明白这一点。
So I'm educating you.
第三点是具体的邀请。
Third is the actual invitation.
那我们怎么才能确保你下次会议准时到呢？
Here, what can we do to make sure you show up to the next meeting on time?
这就算是一种邀请。
That's an invitation.
或者也可以看作是一种邀请。
Or it could be an invitation.
我希望你下次会议提前五分钟到。
I need you to show up to the next meeting five minutes earlier.
这是一种明确的邀请。
That's a declarative invitation.
最后，我们来看看这些行为带来的影响。
And then finally our implications.
你改变这个行为后，会带来哪些积极和消极的后果？
What are the positive and negative consequences of you changing the behavior?
我可能会这样给你一些建设性的反馈。
So I might give constructive feedback like this.
我会说，嘿，克里斯，这已经是第三次你开会迟到超过五分钟了。
I might say, Hey, Chris, this is the third time you've been more than five minutes late to our meeting.
我觉得你对这件事的重视程度，跟我们其他人不一样。
I feel you're not prioritizing this to the same level the rest of us are.
我们该怎么确保你下次能准时到场？
What can we do to make sure you show up to the next meeting on time?
因为如果大伙儿都在，准时开始，我们就能早点结束，接着推进另一个很棒的项目。
Because if we're all together and we start on time, we'll get done sooner and get another really cool project.
信息、影响、邀请、后果。
Information, impact, invitation, implication.
所以归根结底，我是希望你能帮我一起解决这个问题。
So again, it's all about asking you to help me solve this problem.
所以沟通的方式决定了你要表达的内容。
So approach leads to the message.
这还需要一定的坦诚和直接，对吧？
It also requires a level of like honesty and directness, Right?
如果你不敢明确指出对方已经三次迟到这个事实，那根本谈不上有效的反馈对话。
Like, you can't actually have a conversation where you're giving feedback if you are afraid to state the fact of you've been late three times.
如果你说，嘿。
If you say, hey.
有时候有人会晚到，也不是每次都准时开始。
You know, sometimes people have been kind of late, and it's not always starting on time.
这样说话力度太弱了，不仅很难帮到对方，也很难促成真正的改变。
That's a much weaker way of having the conversation, and it's it's actually much less likely to help the other person or lead to a real invitation.
所以你必须清楚、直接地讲出事实真相。
So you also have to be really clear and declarative about just the truth of the situation.
没错。
Absolutely.
而且你得非常清楚自己到底想从这段对话里得到什么。
And and you need to be very sure what it is you want to get out of it.
我有个朋友，是很好的朋友，他个子特别高。
I have a friend, a dear friend, who he's a very tall person.
大概有两米零三，声音特别低沉。
He's like six'eight, has a really deep voice.
有一次，他的老板对他说：别那么有压迫感。
And his boss came up to him once and said, Stop being so intimidating.
你要试着去想
I want you to think
这一点，
about that,
这才是建设性的反馈。
is constructive feedback.
我朋友该怎么处理这个呢？
What does my friend do with that?
这话说得不够具体，对吧？
It's not specific, right?
根本没说清楚问题在哪。
There's nothing there.
作为给出反馈的人，你得想明白真正的问题是什么。
So you as a feedback giver, you need to think about what the real issue is.
后来我朋友来找我，说：天哪，我该怎么办？
It turns out, my friend came to me and said, Oh my gosh, what do I do?
他回去跟我们一聊，才发现问题在于，只要他一开口，大家就都安静了，因为他气场太强。
And when he went back and talked to us, problem was when my friend spoke, everybody would stop because he has such a big physical presence.
顺便说一句，他非常聪明，提出的观点也特别重要。
And by the way, he's really smart and his contributions are really important.
老板真正想做的，是确保其他人也能被听到。
What the boss wanted was to make sure he heard from everybody else.
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所以你想象一下，如果你去问我朋友：我们怎么才能让会议里的每个人都感到自在，愿意发言？
So imagine if you would have gone to my friend and said, what can we do to make sure everybody else in our meetings feels comfortable contributing?
现在你明白他们该怎么找到真正的解决办法了吗？
And now do you see how they can get to a real solution there?
但我们在给建设性反馈时，得清楚自己到底想要什么，还得愿意敞开心扉，至少说一句：我有个问题，帮我想想办法。
But we have to know what we want when we give constructive feedback, and we have to be comfortable being vulnerable and at least sharing, here's a problem I have, help me solve it.
当你这么做了，才能达成双方都愿意支持的更好方案。
And when you do that, you get to better solutions that both parties are willing to support.
听起来你刚才说的，关于主持会议特别难这一点也很有道理。
It seems like also that what you said about moderation being so hard.
让主持工作稍微轻松一点的方法，就是提前做好准备。
One of the things that makes moderation a little bit easier, if it can be, is if it's ahead of time.
如果你等别人开口了才突然说：咱们接下来这么办，听起来就像在指责对方。
Because if you if you wait for people to speak and then you start saying, actually, here's how we're gonna do things, it feels a little bit like an attack.
比如，别人会觉得：我们只能讲三十秒，是因为我说话太长了。
Like, oh, the reason we only talk for thirty seconds is because I talk too long.
我想我当时可能让大家觉得无聊了，但如果在任何人发言之前，先说明每个人只能讲三十秒，情况就不一样了。
I guess I was really boring everyone versus if you before anyone speaks, you say, each person is gonna speak for thirty seconds.
我住在洛杉矶，从事娱乐行业。
You know, I live in Los Angeles, and I work in the entertainment industry.
所以经常参加一些活动，结尾都有问答环节，但那些问答很多时候根本不是提问，就是人们在发表长篇大论。
And so often, I'll go to an event that has a q and a at the end, and the q and a's are so frequently just people saying things.
根本没人提醒。
There's no cue.
就是突然有人冒出来一句：嘿。
It's just a, hey.
我在这儿，我想说。
I'm here, and here's
我的问题。
my A's.
有点儿
Little
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
好多A啊
A lot of a's.
真的好多A啊
A lot of a's.
我发现，如果主持人或 Moderator 提前说一句：我们都遇到过那种，有人上来就长篇大论，根本不是提问的情况，效果会完全不同
And I find that it's, dramatically different if the person who is hosting or moderating says some version of, we've all been at one where someone just talks for a long time, doesn't ask a question.
所以这里的每个问题都得是真正的问题
So every question here should be a real question.
得是那种能简短回答的问题，或者类似的意思
It should be a short answerable question or some version of that.
你就会发现，之后大家不会觉得被冒犯，问题的质量也高多了
You notice that afterwards, don't feel like they're personally attacked, but the questions are much, much better.
所以这里已经设定了这样的预期。
So there's that expectation set up there.
我觉得设定预期非常关键。
I think expectation setting is critical.
顺便说一句，我听过最棒的问答环节预期设定，是有人这么说：你提问题时，每一句话都得以问号结尾。
And by the way, the best expectation setting I've ever had for heard for a Q and A session, the person said, everything you say when you ask a question should end with a question mark.
如果句号收尾，那你就根本没在提问。
If it ends with a period, you have not asked a question.
这正好说中了你的意思。
And that does exactly what you're saying.
设定预期对沟通至关重要，但我们其实并不擅长这个。
Expectation setting is critical for communication, and we are not really good at it.
我觉得我们手头最有效的预期设定工具，却没人好好用，那就是日历邀请。
I think the single best expectation setting tool that we have that nobody really uses is the calendar invite.
想想看，在会议、演讲或提案开始前，你能提前在日历邀请里做多少事。
Think about all the things you can do in advance of the meeting, the presentation, the pitch, that could be put in the calendar invite.
你可以把基本规则写上去，把可能的结果列出来，说明希望大家提前准备讨论哪些内容。
You could put the ground rules, you could put what the potential outcomes should be, what you want people to come prepared to discuss.
提前设定期望，能大大提升沟通的效率和效果。
You can catalyze and accelerate your communication by setting expectations in advance.
但如果你处在被采访、做问答，或者必须面对别人提问、当场回应的场景，又没法提前准备脚本，那该怎么办呢？
But if you're in a situation where you're being interviewed or you're doing a Q and A or you're in the situation where you're having to, you know, be be like this, where people are gonna ask you things and you're gonna have to answer, and you don't know ahead of time, so you can't script.
你得有个框架，ADD，就是A-D-D。
You have a framework, ADD, ad.
对。
Yes.
在问答场合，该怎么用这个A-D-D框架呢？
How does someone apply ad when they're in a Q and A situation?
这个A-D-D到底是什么？
What is it?
我还是想说说前期准备，就是事前要做些什么。
So again, I wanna talk about pre work, what we do in advance.
我所从事的工作中最反直觉的一点是，你其实可以为即兴发挥做好准备。
The most counterintuitive thing in the work I do is that you can prepare to be spontaneous.
有很多方法可以在当下就做好准备。
There's a whole bunch of stuff we can do to prepare in the moment.
想想运动员。
Think of an athlete.
他们反复训练、锻炼，就是为了在比赛中能即时做出反应。
They do lots of drills and they work out so that when they're in the game, they can respond in the moment.
我们在沟通中也可以这么做。
And we can do the same in our communication.
如果我知道自己要参加一个可能被提问的场合，我就会提前想好：我最想传达的核心观点和主题是什么？
So if I know I'm going into an event where there are gonna be questions or could be questions, I could think about What are some of the key themes and ideas I wanna get across?
我甚至会提前准备好一些具体的例子、想讲的故事，或者要引用的数据。
And I can even think of some specific examples, stories I wanna tell, maybe some data I wanna bring.
餐厅里的厨师不会等你点沙拉了，才去冰箱里拿生菜。
A chef in a restaurant does not open up the refrigerator and take out the lettuce when you want a salad.
东西都洗好了、切好了，直接拼在一起就行。
Things are washed and pre chopped and already, and they just assemble it.
我们也可以这么做。
So we can do the same thing.
当问题一出来，我马上就想：哦，这个问题跟这个主题有关。
Now in the moment when the question comes in, I think to myself, oh, that's a question that relates to this theme.
我知道自己早就准备好了几套说辞。
And I know I have a few things all ready to go.
这就是我们说的ADD方法，用来提升表达的价值。
And that's where the ADD approach comes in for adding value.
说到底，这是一种结构。
Again, it's a structure.
先回答问题，再举个具体的例子，最后说明为什么这很重要。
Answer the question, give a detailed example, and explain the relevance, why it's important.
所以就是：回答、举例、讲清意义。
So answer detailed example, describe the relevance.
我在回答你们的问题时，一直试着展示这一点，你们可以回去重新听、重新看，然后说：哦，原来如此，我现在明白了。
I've tried to demonstrate this in the answers to your questions, and people can go back and listen and watch again and say, oh, there, now I see it.
但说到底，你先给出答案。
But essentially you give the answer.
有人提了问题，你就直接回答，然后再举一个具体详细的例子。
Somebody had a question, you give the answer, and then you give a concrete detailed example of it.
我们更容易记住具体的细节，而不是笼统的概要，大脑就是这样运作的。
We remember, our brains are wired to remember concrete detail better than high level gist.
这其实是一种强化方式。
So it's a way of reinforcing.
接着，你还要说明它带来的价值，这样别人才能真正理解。
And then we have to explain the value that it brings so people can really understand it.
他们就能把前后联系起来了。
They connect the dots.
我们常以为，只要我说了什么，对方自然就能明白为什么这很重要。
We assume that if I say something, you're gonna figure out why that's relevant or important.
我上学时遇到的第一位心理学教授，说了一句话，让我记到现在。
The very first psychology professor I ever had in school said something that stuck with me all these years.
他说，挺有意思的是，所谓常识，其实并不那么常见。
He said, The funny thing about common sense is it's not so common.
所以，光是我说了第一点、第二点，你也不一定就能把它们联系起来。
So just because I say this dot one and dot two, you might not connect them the same way.
举个例子吧，咱们来试试。
So for example, well, let's do this.
克里斯，我可要让你来回答个问题了。
Chris, I'm gonna put you on the spot.
当然，我特别喜欢这样。
Please, I love that.
想象一下，你现在正在面试我。
Imagine you're interviewing me for a job.
好，你是招聘经理，我是应聘者。
Okay, so you're the hiring manager, I'm the employee.
假设你正在面试我，想聘我当传播学教授，毕竟我来这儿就是为了这个目的。
Let's say you're interviewing me to be a professor of communication, because that's why I would show up for this.
你可能会问，让一个喜剧演员提问题，这听起来有点奇怪，但其实挺合理的。
What might be a reasonable, I know asking a comedian to ask questions.
对，我可不想跑题太远。
Yeah, don't want me to get too far off.
这个框架挺好的。
That's a good framework.
对，没错，完全对。
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
不对。
No.
所以请你问一个合理的问题，来判断我有没有资格胜任我平时干的这份工作。
So ask me a a a reasonable question to decide if I'm qualified to to do the job that actually is my day job.
你有没有遇到过，在课堂之外，用你的沟通技巧取得积极成果的时候？
What's a time when you were able to use your communication skills to achieve a positive result outside of the classroom?
我是个家长，生活中有很多机会可以运用沟通技巧，帮助孩子应对各种情况，给予他们指导，避免他们走弯路。
So I'm a parent, and there are lots of opportunities with kids to leverage communication, to help them in whatever the situation they find themselves, give them guidance, have them avoid things.
有一次，我其中一个儿子想参加一个远超他水平的足球训练。
There was a time where one of my sons wanted to play football at a level that was above his skill level.
我没有直接说：不行，你不能这么做。
And rather than saying, no, you can't do that.
我问了他几个问题。
I asked a couple questions.
提问是沟通中非常有用的工具。
Inquiry is a very valuable tool in communication.
我问他一些问题，最终让他自己意识到，那时候这并不是适合他的选择。
And so I asked him some questions that ultimately led him to the decision that it was not the right choice for him at time.
如果你们聘我，我会把这种提问的技巧，还有我在生活中其他方面积累的经验，用在学生身上，帮助他们按需成长。
If you were to hire me, I would bring those same skills of inquiry, of leveraging what I've learned in other areas of my life to help our students learn and grow in the way that they need to.
每当谈到这种框架，人们总会问：你是不是在一步步带我走一个固定的流程？
The thing that always comes up with these frameworks is people are gonna say, does it feel like you're walking me through a framework?
当你熟悉了这个框架，确实会注意到它，因为你一直在留意。
Well, when you know the framework, yeah, because you're looking for it.
但如果你不知道这个框架，你觉得会怎样？
But if you don't know the framework, what do you think?
我说过这个问题，你可能还记得，马特有两个孩子，其中一个想踢足球。
I mean, I answered the question, you might remember, oh, Matt has two kids and one wanted to play football.
很好。
Okay, great.
这让我跟那些让人记不住的人区别开来。
That makes me stand out versus the person you don't remember anything from.
你能看出，我明白教师真正的职责是什么——那就是帮助学生自己做决定，对吧？
And you see that I have an understanding of what the job of a teacher really is, which is empowering students to make their own choices, right?
所以，ADD能帮你像按食谱做菜一样，一步步来，这样你就能专注于该说什么，而不是该怎么说。
So ADD helps you, again, just like a recipe, go through the steps so you can focus on what to say, not how to say it.
对我来说，我们这样教写议论文，是因为当你真正掌握之后，这种方式确实能非常有力地表达观点。
To me, the reason why we teach essay writing like that is because when you actually get good at that, that actually is a very compelling way to present an idea.
你不会把它做得太直白。
You just don't do it in the most obvious possible form.
你要把它藏得低调一点。
You make it a little more invisible.
但给想法搭个结构，能帮我们避开那些啰里啰唆、答非所问的废话——那才是常态。
But having a structure to our ideas, it saves us from these rambling non answers, which are the that is the default.
没错。
Right.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
是的。
Yeah.
列出来，一条一条地讲。
Listing and itemizing.
有个不显山露水的结构，真的很有帮助。
Having a structure that is not overt can be really helpful.
我给学生举的例子是，大多数人知道马丁·路德·金的《我有一个梦想》演讲。
The example I use with my students, most people know Martin Luther King Junior's I Have a Dream speech.
真是精彩的演讲。
Amazing speech.
虽然很多内容是现场即兴发挥的，但背后有清晰的结构。
A lot of it was improvised in the moment, but it has a structure.
只要你仔细听，就能发现它的结构非常明确。
There's a clear structure if you listen to it.
这其实是一个‘问题—解决方案—收益’型的演讲。
It is a problem solution benefit speech.
就跟电视上的广告一个道理。
Just like an advertisement on TV.
大多数广告都是‘问题—解决方案—收益’的模式。
Most advertisements are problem solution benefit.
但在他的演讲里，这种结构被巧妙地藏在了修辞手法、激情和故事叙述之中。
But in in terms of his speech, it is covered up in great rhetorical devices and passion and storytelling.
所以你不需要刻意去留意结构，也能利用好这个结构。
So you don't have to see the structure to take advantage of the structure.
很多人一沉迷于框架和计划，反而忽略了大局，根本没去感受现场的氛围。
It feels like people can get really into the frameworks and the plan, and then they can kind of miss the forest for the trees because they don't actually read the room.
你提到情境真的特别重要。
And you talk about how context really matters.
你举了个特别好的例子，说你以前在高中教书时，同样的内容，课前和课后讲，效果完全不同。
You give a great example of how when you were teaching in high school, the difference in presenting the same material right before lunch versus when you were right after lunch.
那你能跟我们说说吗？同样是这堂课，明明内容一点没变，但如果是午饭前的最后一节，和午饭后的第一节课，你的课堂状态有什么不一样？
And so can you talk to us about how your class changed, even though it was the exact same class, when you were the last period before lunch and when you were the first period after lunch?
我离开科技行业后，一直对教学充满热情。
So when I left high-tech, I've always been passionate about teaching.
我选择去高中教书，是因为我当年遇到过几位特别有影响力的老师。
I took a job teaching in high school because I had some really influential high school teachers.
我觉得那是人生中特别关键的一个阶段。
I think that's a really critical period.
所以我教了两年高中，我觉得校长不太喜欢我，因为她总安排我带刚吃午饭前和刚吃午饭后的新生班。
And so I taught high school for two years and I don't think my principal liked me very much because she gave me freshmen right before lunch and right after lunch.
这可真不容易，对吧？
And that's hard, right?
吃午饭前，学生们已经连续上了四个小时的课了。
So right before lunch, they've been going for four hours straight.
中间就稍微歇了那么一小会儿。
We only had a little small break in there.
所以他们进教室时又累又困。
So they're coming in exhausted and tired.
而吃午饭后，他们见了朋友，喝了咖啡，吃了甜食，个个兴奋得不得了。
And then after lunch, they've seen their friends, they've had their caffeine, their sugar, they're bouncing off the walls.
可我的任务是讲同样的课程内容。
And my job is to teach the same curriculum.
所以你得根据实际情况灵活调整。
So you have to adjust to what you've got.
所以我就会调整教室的安排，希望没人觉得我太有心机，但环境真的很重要。
So I would, and I hope nobody judges me as overly manipulative, but when I would reconfigure my classroom situation context matters.
我会让他们围成一圈坐着。
So I had them all sitting in a circle.
这真的挺难的。
It's really hard.
你把十四十五岁的孩子围成一圈，每个人都能看到彼此。
You take 14 year olds, 15 year olds, and you put them in a circle where others can see them.
他们特别警觉，因为不想在别人面前出丑。
They're very vigilant because they don't want to look bad.
所以我们围成一圈，我把空调调低了一点，因为人冷的时候不容易睡着。
So we sat in a circle and I cranked the air conditioning up just a little bit, because when you're cold, it's hard to sleep.
下午吃完饭后，大家就排成行，暖气也开得暖一点。
And then after lunch, everybody's in rows, heats on a little bit.
这说明了什么？环境真的很重要，它本身就是沟通的一部分。
Now the idea, I mean, what this is showing is that context really matters and it's part of the communication.
我给你们一个特别简单的例子，今晚回家和亲人聊天时都可以试试。
Let me give a really simple example all of us can practice tonight when you go home and have a conversation with a loved one.
把两把椅子面对面摆正，两个人正对着坐，然后开始聊天。
Put your chairs facing each other, so both chairs directly face onto each other and have a conversation.
然后把椅子稍微挪一下，让它们呈45度角。
And then move the chair slightly so they're at a 45 degree angle.
我不是正对着你，而是稍微偏一点。
So I'm not square onto you, I'm just off to the side.
感觉有什么不一样吗？
How does it feel?
大多数人会觉得，当两个人正肩对着肩坐着时，交流起来要强烈得多。
Well, most of us will say it is much more intense when we're directly shoulders facing each other.
这种细节很重要，真的会影响沟通。
That's something that is important and can matter.
我以前当经理，在公司上班的时候——我可不想让人觉得我心机太重，但每次要谈正事，我都会把椅子摆成面对面的样子。
When I was a manager and I was working in the corporate world, again, I don't want people thinking I'm manipulative, but if I had a serious conversation, I would move the chairs so we were facing each other.
所以大家都知道，这事很严肃，根本不用我明说。
So people knew, hey, this is serious without me having to say it.
所以你如何利用周围的环境和眼前的情况，非常重要。
So how you use the context and what's happening in front of you matters.
你在公司里有个特别重要的想法，终于争取到五分钟向高管团队汇报，先看看他们的日程安排。
You're in a company and you have a really important idea and you get your five minutes with the executive team, look at their calendars.
你是不是排在他们开了五场会之后的最后一个？
Are you the last meeting after they've had five before you?
这会不会影响他们对你发言的感受，哪怕你的内容再出色？
Might that impact how they feel about your communication, regardless of how great it is?
也许最好的做法，是把汇报安排到第二天的第一场。
Maybe the best thing to do is to take the first meeting the next day.
环境真的很重要。
Context matters.
人们的表现，往往是由环境决定的。
People show up as a result of the context.
我们常常忽略了这一点。
And we often don't think about that.
最后我想说，斯坦福有个非常棒的设计学院，叫D学校，那里的人特别有创意。
Last thing I'll say, Stanford has an amazing design school, D school at Stanford, really creative people.
在他们的教室里，每节课结束，老师都得把所有的桌椅靠墙放好。
In their classrooms, at the end of every class, the teacher has to put all the tables and chairs against the wall.
它们都有轮子，而且
They all have wheels and
还能折叠起来。
they all fold up.
所以下一位老师进来时，必须主动思考：我该怎么布置这个空间？
So the next teacher has to purposely come in and think about how do I wanna use this space?
而不是任由房间一直保持原来的样子。
Instead of having the room just set up the way it always is.
这很棒，因为这意味着你得认真考虑房间的布局，以及它会如何影响你的教学目标。
That's lovely because what that means is you have to think about the way the room is configured and how it's gonna impact what you want to do.
我们都该想想这个问题。
We all need to be thinking about that.
我觉得，一个出色的演讲者和普通演讲者最大的区别，在于能感受到观众的情绪——哪怕只是个尴尬的瞬间。
I think it is really the difference between an exceptional speaker and just an okay one is to understand what the audience is is feeling or the potential fart.
对吧？
Right?
如果房间太热，你至少得承认它热；如果没法改，那就多带点能量进去，让别人也能跟着提起来。
If the room is hot and you acknowledge that the room is hot, or if it's not changeable, at least you bring more energy so that then people have the energy.
我还想到，私底下在婚姻里，我最需要改掉的一件事，就是谈困难话题时，提前把双方的台词都写好了。
It also strikes me that in a personal way, one of the biggest things I had to unlearn in communication in my marriage was going into a tough conversation, having scripted both sides.
比如我会说：‘我想跟你聊聊一件事，我真的很不开心。’
Like, I'd say, I wanna talk to you about something that I'm really upset about.
可我心里早就排练好了：你肯定会这么说，然后我这么回应，再接着我指出你那套逻辑根本站不住脚。
And in my head, was like, and then you'll say this, and then I'll say this, and then I'll say that, and this is why your argument isn't actually good.
结果呢？我根本没真听她说什么。
And then I wasn't actually listening to her.
而且，她也没按我写的剧本走，她说的完全不一样。
And, also, she wasn't following my script and what she said.
于是我心想，其实也没关系。
So then I was like, but that's okay.
我本来准备了一堆回应，可你根本没有在跟我争，只是认真地听着。
But I have this comeback, and you didn't actually you said you're just listening in in a thoughtful way instead of arguing with me.
那接下来我该怎么做？
So what do I do next?
花了好长时间，我才慢慢学会，真正去回应当下发生的事，而不是只顾着按自己预设的剧本走。
And it took a long time to kind of get into the zone of let me actually respond to what is happening versus what would be easier for me to plan for, or what I would like to to script my way into.
在沟通中，专注至关重要。
Presence is is critical in communication.
我的意思是，如果目的是建立连接，那你就必须真正在现场。
I mean, again, if it's about connection, in order to connect, you have to be present.
当然，提前准备、认真思考也有价值，就像运动员也有战术安排。
Now there is value to planning, to thinking about things, just like an athlete has plays.
这并不意味着剧情会按你的设想发展，但它能让你留意到某种模式。
Doesn't mean the play is gonna unfold the way you want it to, but it gives you a pattern to look out for.
所以提前规划、认真思考这些事确实很重要。
So it's important to plan, it's important to think through these things.
真正的问题在于，你太执着于这些计划，以至于看不见眼前发生的事，没法做出回应。
It's when you get attached to them to the point that it's blinders that it doesn't let you respond to what's happening, that really causes the problem.
所以我打算这样开场，也猜她可能会这样回应，但如果她没按预期来，也没关系——我早就想好了其他办法，也许能换个方式达成我的目的。
So seeing that, hey, I'm gonna start this way, and I suspect she's going to respond this way, but if she doesn't, okay, I've thought through some ideas, maybe I can get to my point in another way.
我会试着跟她的语气和投入程度保持同步。
I'm gonna try to match her level of intensity and connection.
这一点很关键。
That's important.
沟通中最精彩的部分，就在于你既保持在场，清楚自己想引导到哪里，又能灵活回应对方的反馈。
And that's where the juice in the communication really comes from is that being present and knowing where you wanna take it and being responsive to what the others give.
所以我觉得，我们每个人都得在身边亲近的人身上，慢慢摸索出这套方法。
So I I think we all have to figure that out with our close anybody who's close in our lives.
我们得学会怎么做好这种沟通。
We figure out how to do that communication.
我特别明白，为什么那些有好想法、想贡献价值的人，更得提升自己的表达能力。
It's so clear to me why people who have good ideas and meaningful things to contribute should become better at communicating.
这点对我来说再清楚不过了。
That that's very obvious to me.
但另一方面，也常有这样的人：他们危险、想法有害，还喜欢操控或欺压别人。
But there is also a flip side, which is that often people who are, dangerous and have bad ideas or are manipulative or abusive.
这些人往往特别擅长表达。
Oftentimes, those people can be really good at communicating.
那我们该怎么保持警惕，哪怕对方说得天花乱坠，也能看清他话里的真实意图呢？
How can we think about being maybe a little wary or at least aware of what people are saying even when they are great at communicating it?
我很欣赏这个问题，因为在我看来，沟通和批判性思维是密不可分的。
I really appreciate this question because to me, communication and critical thinking are intimately linked.
真正会表达的人，一定懂得独立思考。
To be a good communicator is to think critically.
善于批判性思考，就意味着能很好地表达。
To be a good critical thinker is to be able to communicate well.
想要提升表达能力，就得留意别人是怎么沟通的。
And to learn to communicate better is to become aware of what others do in their communication.
所以我们得看清、理解背后发生了什么。
And so we need to see and understand what's happening.
他们是怎么包装这个观点的？
How are they framing that?
他们用了哪些数据和证据？
What kind of data and evidence are they using?
我注意到他们总往这条路上走，却刻意避开另一条路。
I notice how they're going down this path and avoiding that other path.
这种抽离的觉察，对我们的所有思考都至关重要。
This meta awareness is really critical to all of our thinking.
事实上，在我战略沟通课的第一天，我就告诉学生一个核心原则：我们要培养这种抽离的觉察能力——不仅要关注自己说了什么，还要观察别人沟通的方式，试着理解他们的出发点和可能带来的影响。
And in fact, the very first day of my strategic communication class, one of the foundational principles I tell my students is we are going to be developing meta awareness, which requires us to not only focus on what we're doing, but to be able to observe what others are doing in their communication and understand or try to understand where it's coming from and where it could lead.
这是一种让你身在其中却能跳出来的觉察。
So it's an awareness that causes us to step out of the moment while we're in it.
这做起来不容易，但我认为，任何领域有专长的人，都具备这种能力。
And this is hard to do, but I think anybody who develops any kind of expertise has the ability to do this.
所以我们要不断打磨和培养这种高阶觉察。
So honing and developing that meta awareness.
而这一切，要从自己开始。
And it starts with ourselves.
你可以通过反思来培养这种高阶觉察。
You can develop meta awareness by reflecting.
每天结束时，或者一次对话之后，想想哪些地方有效，哪些地方没做好。
At the end of the day, at the end of an interaction, think what worked, what didn't work.
训练你的大脑去探究原因——不只是‘我说错了话’，而是‘我之所以说错，可能是因为没吃午饭就去开会了’。
Train your brain to begin looking for what, it's not just I said the wrong thing, it's maybe I said the wrong thing because I didn't have lunch before I went into that meeting.
关键是要弄清楚这些背后的原因。
So it's trying to figure these things out.
我每天晚上睡觉前都会写下来一件事：今天沟通中做得特别好的地方，和一件可以改进的地方。
I have a practice every night before I go to bed, I write down one thing that went really well in my communication that day, and one thing that could get better.
每到周末，星期天的时候，我会花点时间回顾一下哪些地方有效、哪些没效，然后为下周制定一个计划，专门改进其中一项。
And at the end of every week, every Sunday, I spend a little bit of time reflecting on what worked, what didn't, and I make a plan for the next week to work on one of those.
我不是说我自己沟通得多厉害，但因为我坚持这么做，我的沟通能力确实变好了。
I'm not saying I'm a great communicator, but I am a better communicator because I do that practice.
我相信这种反思帮助了我，也会帮助其他人培养这种元认知能力。
And that reflection I believe has helped me and will help others to have that meta awareness.
这样我们就不会轻易被心怀恶意的人牵着走，能看清局势，再做出更明智、更周全的回应。
So we don't necessarily fall victim or prey to people who have malintent and we can see what's going on and then make a better, more thoughtful decision about how we wanna respond.
马特，今天聊得太开心了。
Matt, this was such a pleasure.
这期节目真是精彩极了。
What an incredible episode.
真的很感谢你抽时间来参加节目。
I really am so glad that you made the time to be on the show.
谢谢你能来。
Thanks for being here.
克里斯，非常感谢你，我特别欣赏你提出的这些有深度的问题。
Chris, thank you so much, and I really appreciated the insightful questions.
好的。
Okay.
今天这期《如何成为更好的人》就到这里了。
That is it for today's episode of how to be a better human.
在播放片尾字幕之前，我们正在开展一项听众调查，目前还需要更多回复，才能收集到足够的数据，为未来节目内容提供有力的参考。
Before I read the credits, we are in the middle of running a listener survey, and we really need more responses to get enough data to really dig in and have good ideas about what to do in the future of this show.
我们很想听听你希望我们聊哪些话题，你觉得哪些地方做得好，哪些地方还可以改进。
We would love to hear what topics you think we should cover, what you think is working, what you think we could do better on.
你可以点击 bit.ly/bhsurveysix 来填写这份简短的问卷。
You can answer the short questions at bit.ly/bhsurveysix.
网址是 bit.ly/bhsurveysix，你也可以直接点击节目简介里的链接。
That's bit.ly/bhsurveysix, or there is a link that you can click right in the episode description.
点一下就能直接跳转到那里。
It should take you right there.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
链接也在节目简介里，或者直接访问 bit.ly/bhsurveysix。
Again, that link is in the show description or it is bit.lybhsurveysix.
你们的反馈对我们特别重要，能帮我们做出更棒的节目，这正是我们一直在努力的目标。
It would make a huge difference and really help us to make the best show we possibly can, which is what we are trying to do.
接下来是片尾名单。
On to the credits.
非常感谢你收听这一期节目。
Thank you so much for listening to this episode.
感谢今天的嘉宾，马特·阿布拉姆斯。
Thank you to today's guest, Matt Abrahams.
他主持着播客《Think Fast Talk Smart》，新书名叫《Think Faster, Talk Smarter》。
He hosts the podcast Think Fast Talk Smart, and his new book is called Think Faster, Talk Smarter.
我是主持人克里斯·达菲，我的新书叫《让我笑一笑》。
I am your host, Chris Duffy, and my new book is called Humor Me.
想了解我的书、我的项目，以及我做的所有事情，欢迎访问 chrisduffycomedy.com。
You can find out about my book, my projects, and everything that I do online at chrisduffycomedy.com.
这一集能顺利完成，全靠背后团队沟通得特别清楚。
This episode was put together by a team who communicated so clearly that this episode ended up actually being put together.
要是沟通不清，这事根本办不成。
Without clear communication, that would not have happened.
在TED这边，参与制作的有达尼埃拉·瓦拉雷佐、程班班、米歇尔·昆特、乔莉·肖肖·布鲁克斯、瓦伦蒂娜·博哈尼尼、莱妮·洛特、坦西卡·辛马内冯、安东尼奥·莱和约瑟夫·德布赖恩。
On the TED side, that's Daniela Valarezzo, BanBan Cheng, Michelle Quint, Chloe Shawshaw Brooks, Valentina Bohanini, Lainey Lot, Tansika Sinmanevong, Antonio Lay, and Joseph DeBryan.
瑞安·拉什通过视频剪辑为你呈现视觉内容，马特奥·萨拉斯则核对所有说法，确保不仅清晰，而且准确。
Ryan Lash is visually communicating with you right now through his video editing, and Mateo Salas is fact checking everything that has been said to make sure that it is not just clear, but also correct.
这一点同样至关重要。
That's a very important other thing for it to be.
在PRX这边，他们确保你能顺利听到这些内容。
On the PRX side, they're making sure that you can hear this communication at all.
还有摩根·弗拉纳里、诺吉尔、帕特里克·格兰特和乔塞琳·冈萨雷斯。
And that is Morgan Flannery, Norgill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez.
感谢你的收听。
Thanks to you for listening.
请把这一期推荐给你觉得会喜欢的人。
Please send this episode to someone who you think would enjoy it.
我们下周再见，继续探讨如何成为更好的人。
We will be back next week with even more how to be a better human.
在此之前，保重。
Until then, take care.
我们都听过这样的说法：社交媒体正在剥夺孩子的童年，让他们患上社交焦虑，加剧青少年抑郁。
We've all heard that social media is taking away kids' childhoods, giving them social anxiety, and increasing rates of teen depression.
社交媒体被当成罪魁祸首，但有没有可能它并不是呢？
Social media has been labeled the culprit, but what if it's not?
当我站在这里，看着这场争论展开，再看到这些信息如何被传递给大众时，最让我震惊的是，如今的科学研究和专家小组得出的结论，与公众所理解的之间存在着巨大鸿沟——实际上，社交媒体与心理健康之间的关联微乎其微。
What has been really shocking to me as I've stood here and kind of watched this debate unfold and seeing how things are translated to the broader public is that there's just this massive gap between what evidence has been generated today and rigorous studies have found and expert panels have concluded, which is essentially that there's very tiny correlations between social media and mental health.
这位是发展心理学家坎迪斯·罗杰斯，她受邀参与了我们的特别访谈，深入剖析了那些驳斥社交媒体导致青少年心理健康下滑的研究。
That was developmental psychologist, Candice Rogers, who joined us for a special interview to unearth the research that debunks social media as the cause of the mental health decline for our teens.
那真正的原因是什么？我们又该如何找到出路？
What else is causing it, and what are the solutions for a path forward?
完整内容请收听《TED 演讲每日播客》，全平台均可收听。
Find out in the full episode of TED Talks Daily wherever you listen to podcasts.
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