AMA #10：大自然的益处与"接地气"、听力损失研究及如何避免高原反应

欢迎收听休伯曼实验室播客，我们在这里探讨科学及基于科学的日常生活工具。

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life.

我是安德鲁·休伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

今天是一期问答环节，也就是AMA。

Today is an Ask Me Anything episode or AMA.

这是我们的高级订阅者频道的一部分。

This is part of our premium subscriber channel.

我们开设高级订阅者频道，是为了支持免费的休伯曼实验室播客，该播客每周一发布，所有人均可免费通过所有主流平台收听，包括YouTube、Apple、Spotify等。

Our premium subscriber channel was started in order to provide support for the standard Huberman Lab Podcast, which comes out every Monday and is available at zero cost to everybody on all standard feeds, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, and elsewhere.

我们同时设立高级频道，也是为了支持斯坦福大学及其他机构正在进行的令人兴奋的研究。

We also started the premium channel as a way to generate support for exciting research being done at Stanford and elsewhere.

这些研究针对人类，旨在促成重要发现，从而促进心理健康、身体健康和表现提升。

Research on human beings that leads to important discoveries that assist mental health, physical health, and performance.

我也很高兴地通知大家，对于休伯曼实验室高级频道为研究项目筹集的每一美元，Tiny基金会都同意匹配同等金额。

I'm also pleased to inform you that for every dollar the Huberman Lab Premium Channel generates for research studies, the Tiny Foundation has agreed to match that amount.

因此，我们现在能够将用于心理健康、身体健康和人类表现研究的资金总额翻倍。

So now we are able to double the total amount of funding given to studies of mental health, physical health, and human performance.

如果您想订阅Huberman实验室播客的高级频道，请访问hubermanlab.com/premium。

If you'd like to subscribe to the Huberman Lab Podcast Premium channel, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium.

订阅费用为每月10美元，或者您可以一次性支付100美元，获得为期一年的完整订阅。

It is $10 a month to subscribe, or you can pay $100 all at once to get an entire twelve month subscription for a year.

我们还提供一次性付费的终身订阅模式。

We also have a lifetime subscription model that is a one time payment.

您可以在hubermanlab.com/premium找到这一选项。

And again, you can find that option at hubermanlab.com/premium.

对于已经订阅高级频道的朋友们，请前往hubermanlab.com/premium下载高级订阅的音频源。

For those of you that are already subscribers to the Premium channel, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium and download the Premium subscription feed.

对于尚未订阅Huberman实验室播客高级服务的听众，您仍然可以收听今天节目的前二十分钟，以判断是否适合成为高级订阅用户。

And for those of you that are not Huberman Lab Podcast Premium subscribers, you can still hear the first twenty minutes of today's episode and determine whether or not becoming a premium subscriber is for you.

那么，不多说了，我们开始回答大家的问题。

So without further ado, let's get to answering your questions.

第一个问题是关于大自然的，特别是关于接触自然在科学上被证实的好处。

The first question is about nature, in particular about the scientifically supported benefits of getting outdoors into nature.

提问者想知道阳光的作用、舒缓声音的作用、观察野生动物的作用、观察绿色植物的作用，以及‘其他东西’的作用。

The person asks about the role of sunlight, the role of calming sounds, the role of observing wildlife, of observing green colors and quote, other stuff.

事实上，我很高兴他们提到了‘其他东西’，因为我经常被问到大自然在科学上有哪些益处。

And in fact, I'm glad that they asked about other stuff because I get the question about the scientifically supported benefits of nature a lot.

我经常也被问到关于‘接地’的问题。

I often also get the question about grounding.

对于不熟悉‘接地’是什么的人，接地是指赤脚直接接触地面，通常是踩在泥土或草坪上，而这个问题我最近越来越常被问到。

For those of you that aren't familiar with what grounding is, grounding is a practice of putting your feet on the earth directly with bare feet, oftentimes into soil or on a lawn, and it's a question that I seem to get more and more.

事实上，很长一段时间以来，每周在社交媒体或其他地方，都会有人问我关于接地这一做法的科学依据。

In fact, every week for quite a long while now on social media or elsewhere, somebody asks me about the scientific support for this practice of grounding.

因此，显然人们对科学研究所揭示的接触自然和赤脚接地等做法非常感兴趣。

So obviously there's a lot of interest in what the scientific research says about getting into nature and putting one's feet on the ground, AKA grounding and so on.

好吧，如果我要回答这个问题，我必须先直接跟你们说清楚。

Okay, so if I'm going to answer this question, I first have to be very direct with you.

有大量——数十甚至数百项高质量的同行评审研究，支持在一天早期让阳光照射眼睛以调节昼夜节律的价值。

There is excellent, meaning dozens, if not hundreds of quality peer reviewed studies, which support the value of getting sunlight in one's eyes, in particular early in the day to set their circadian rhythm.

我曾在《休曼纳实验室播客》中多次讨论过这一点，也作为嘉宾在其他播客中谈到过。

This is something that I've talked about extensively on the Huberman Lab Podcast and as a guest on other podcasts.

这是‘睡眠工具包’中最先列出、也是最重要的一项内容，这个零成本工具包可以通过访问 hubermanlab.com，进入菜单，选择新闻通讯来获取，你可以在那里看到 PDF 版本，无需注册新闻通讯即可直接访问。你会注意到，在这份清单的顶部或接近顶部的位置，明确写着：每天清晨让阳光照射你的眼睛。

It's one of the first and frankly most important items on the Toolkit for Sleep, which is a zero cost toolkit that you can access by going to hubermanlab.com, going to the menu, going to newsletter, you can see it as a PDF there, you don't have to sign up for the newsletter, you can just access that Toolkit for Sleep, and you'll notice that very close to the top of that list, if not top of that list, is to get sunlight in your eyes early in the day.

你不需要等到太阳升出地平线。

You don't have to see the sun cross the horizon.

如果能做到，那当然很好。

If you can, that's great.

但如果你醒来时太阳已经升起，就出去，面向太阳，必要时眨眼以保护眼睛，但每天都要让阳光照进眼睛，尽可能频繁地这样做，尤其是在阴天，明白吗？

But if you wake up after the sun has already risen, go outside, face the sun, blink as necessary to protect your eyes, but get some sunlight into your eyes every single day or as often as you possibly can, especially on overcast days, okay?

这是一个绝对有科学依据的工具，能提升白天的情绪、专注力和警觉性，并改善你的夜间睡眠。

That's an absolutely unequivocally science supported tool that will increase daytime mood focus and alertness and will improve your nighttime sleep.

早晨晒太阳还对新陈代谢有极其积极的影响。

Viewing morning sunlight also has profoundly positive effects on metabolism.

这些对新陈代谢的影响，可能是直接由晒太阳引起的，但更可能是夜间睡眠质量提升后的间接结果。

Now those effects on metabolism could be the direct effect of viewing sunlight or more likely they are the indirect consequence of getting better sleep at night.

因此，早上尽早晒太阳，最好在傍晚或日落前也晒一晒，这是一个得到充分支持的方案，已被证明对心理健康、身体健康和表现提升都有诸多益处。

So getting sunlight in your eyes early in the day and ideally in the evening or late afternoon before the sun sets is a very well supported protocol that we know is beneficial for numerous aspects of mental health, physical health, and performance.

当然，晒太阳并让阳光进入眼睛，需要你走出去。

And of course, sunlight and getting sunlight in one's eyes does require that you get outside.

如果你试图通过窗户、挡风玻璃，或者看屏幕上的太阳图片来获取阳光，根本不可能获得同样的效果——你无法借此调节生物钟，也无法获得晒太阳带来的所有正面影响。

You simply will not derive the same benefits from viewing sunlight if you try and do it through a window or windshield, or if you look at a picture of a sun on a screen, forget it, you are not going to set your circadian rhythm, you are not going to derive all the positive effects of sunlight by trying to get it from screens or from looking at pictures of suns or something of that sort.

如果你因为某些原因——比如季节变化、居住地纬度、工作时间等——无法持续在早上让阳光进入眼睛，那么你可以考虑购买一种所谓的‘季节性情感障碍灯’，这是一种强光灯，早上使用大约五到十分钟。

Now, if you are somebody that for whatever reason, seasonality, where you live on the planet, work schedule, etcetera, who cannot get sunlight in your eyes early in the day on a consistent basis, well, then you might consider purchasing a so called sad lamp, which is for seasonal affective disorder, which is very bright light that you can look at in the morning for usually about five to ten minutes.

人们通常会把它放在厨房台面上，一边做早餐、喝咖啡时使用，研究也表明这能改善情绪、专注力和警觉性，并帮助调节生物钟，但其效果远不如直接让阳光照射眼睛。

People will put it on their counter while they make their morning coffee, eat their breakfast, and that has also been shown to improve mood focus and alertness and set one circadian rhythm, but it is not nearly as effective as getting sunlight in your eyes.

那么，为什么我要再次谈论这个我已经在众多播客中反复讲过的话题呢？

Now, why am I talking about this practice that I've already talked about extensively on numerous podcasts before?

因为这个问题关乎自然，而阳光是我们自然环境中的关键要素。

Well, because the question is about nature and sunlight is a key feature of our natural environment.

但这个人也在询问自然的其他特征，比如看到绿色或蓝色，或者流动的溪水。

But the person is also asking about other features of nature, seeing green colors or blue colors or running streams for that matter.

同样地，我们可以问：科学数据究竟对靠近瀑布、溪流或海洋有何说法？

Well, here too, we can ask what does the scientific data really say about things like going near a waterfall or a running stream or being near an ocean.

事实上，这相当有趣。

And actually, this is quite interesting.

实际上，关于负离子化——这是一种在水体附近，特别是瀑布、溪流等特定水体周围存在的离子化模式——已有大量同行评审的研究文献。

There is actually a peer reviewed literature on negative ionization, as it's called, which is a pattern of ionization that's present close to bodies of water and particular types of bodies of water, such as waterfalls, running streams, etcetera.

哥伦比亚大学医学院有一家实验室已就负离子化对调节昼夜节律及其他心理健康和身体健康方面的好处发表了相当多的研究成果。

There's actually a laboratory at Columbia University School of Medicine that has published fairly extensively on the health benefits of negative ionization as it relates to setting circadian rhythm and some other aspects of mental and physical health.

我计划在不久的将来邀请该实验室的负责人做客《休伯曼实验室播客》。

I intend to host the head of that laboratory on the Huberman Lab Podcast in the not too distant future.

目前，我们可以安全地得出结论：置身于水体附近，尤其是流动的水体，似乎确实对健康有益；当然，和以往一样，每当发现自然环境对健康有影响时，总会有人开发出一些技术，试图在家庭环境中模拟负离子化模式。

For now, we can safely say this, there does seem to be some positive health benefits to placing oneself near bodies of water, in particular moving bodies of water, and of course, as is always the case when there's a discovery about how the natural world can impact health, there have been some technologies developed to create negative patterns of ionization within a home environment.

但正如观看日光与使用季节性情感障碍灯相比一样，人们可以购买并放置在家中的负离子发生器，在少数研究中显示出一些健康益处，但这些正面效果无论如何都无法达到那些让人们真正花时间在户外靠近流动水体的研究中所证实的效果。

But as with viewing sunlight exposure and comparing it to say, sad lamps, the negative ionization machines that one can purchase and put in their home environment have been shown in a few studies to produce some positive health benefits, but those positive effects in no way reach the level of positive effects that have been demonstrated in studies where people are actually spending a dedicated period of time outdoors near a moving body of water.

因此，在思考自然和自然环境时，有强有力的证据表明让眼睛接触阳光是有益的。

So in thinking about nature, natural environments, there's strong evidence for getting sunlight in one's eyes.

关于靠近流动的水体，也有一些证据，或许——我特别想强调‘或许’，因为这些流动水体产生的负离子可能带来益处；但相比之下，关于室内使用的阳光模拟器或负离子发生器的证据要少得多。

There is some evidence for being near moving bodies of water, perhaps, again, I really want to highlight perhaps because of negative ionization created by those moving bodies of water, there is far less evidence for sunlight simulators or negative ionization machines used indoors.

而提出这个问题的人还非常正确地提到了诸如舒缓的声音、观察野生动物、绿色色彩等。

And then the asker of this question also quite correctly asked about things like calming sounds, watching wildlife, green colors, etcetera.

这里有一个非常重要的观点，每个人都需要好好消化。

And herein lies a really important point for everyone to digest.

当然，关于自然世界或健康的问题，我们首先需要提出一个假设。

While of course, a question about the natural world or about health requires that we first pose a hypothesis.

对于那些不熟悉什么是假设的人，假设是一种明确的预测。

For those of you that aren't familiar with what a hypothesis is, a hypothesis is a stated prediction.

所以它不是一个疑问，疑问可能是这样的：‘接触大自然对我们的健康有益吗？’

So it's not a question, a question would be something like, is getting out into nature good for our health?

科学假设则是要明确表达一种立场。

A scientific hypothesis is where one actually takes a stance.

例如，你可以采取这样的立场并提出假设：每天外出接触自然三十分钟，每周三次，可以改善情绪和夜间睡眠。

For instance, you could take the stance and make the hypothesis that getting out into nature for thirty minutes per day, three days per week improves mood and nighttime sleep.

好的，这是一个假设，接下来人们会设计实验来检验它，然后评估实验数据，并将结果与假设进行比较，从而验证或否定该假设。

Okay, so that's a hypothesis that then one would go on to design an experiment to test and then evaluate the data from that experiment and compare it to the hypothesis, either validating or negating that hypothesis.

好的，这基本上就是科学的运作方式。

Okay, that's essentially how science is done.

其中还有很多细节，但这就是科学方法的核心。

There's a lot more to it, but that's essentially the scientific method.

当然，科学方法是一个极其强大的工具，但对于某些问题，它的效力会弱一些。

And while of course the scientific method is a fabulously powerful tool, for some questions, it is a less potent tool.

而‘接触自然是否有助于提升我们的心理健康和身体健康’这个问题，就属于这类问题——虽然理论上你可以设计一个高度受控的研究来解答，但实际上很难设计出这样的研究，原因如下。

And the question of is getting out into nature helpful for enhancing our mental and physical health is the sort of question that while ideally you could design a really well controlled study to address, it's actually quite difficult to design such a study and here's why.

为了进行一项高度受控的研究，即能够单独隔离像阳光、户外森林或河流环境中所见的色彩对比等变量，以判断是舒缓的声音、还是松鼠在你周围奔跑等因素起了作用，要孤立这些单一变量会变得极其困难。

In order to perform a study that's very well controlled, meaning where you can isolate individual variables like sunlight, like the sorts of color contrast that one sees in the natural scene outdoors in a forest or near a river, In order to address whether or not the calming sounds or the presence of squirrels running through your environment are the relevant factors, it becomes incredibly difficult to try and isolate individual variables.

也就是说，一旦把人带进实验室，虽然你可以更好地控制你呈现的变量，对吧？

Meaning as soon as you bring people into the laboratory, yes, have more control over which variables as they're called, you present them, right?

通过把他们带到一个墙上没有任何艺术品的房间里，让他们看太阳的图片、观看阳光、聆听舒缓的声音，或观看森林的图片。

By bringing them into a room that essentially has no art on the walls and then having them look at a picture of a sun or looking at sunlight or listening to soothing sounds or looking at a picture of a forest.

当然，你控制了各个独立变量。

Of course, you're controlling the individual variables.

然而，有一种整体感，也就是身处自然中所汇集的众多不同元素的综合体验，对吧？

However, there is a sort of gestalt, meaning a collective picture of being in nature that brings together lots of different elements, right?

比如，前几天我周日去徒步，那天早上我看到一只松鼠从我面前跑过，这很有趣，因为那只松鼠嘴里叼着一个松果，已经被啃得只剩中间的果轴了，而那只松鼠体长大概只有七到八英寸。

The element of surprise, for instance, the other day I was out for a Sunday hike and that morning I saw a squirrel running across my path and it was interesting because the squirrel had a pine cone in its mouth, it had been chewed down to the cob and the squirrel was probably only about seven or eight inches long.

而那个松果的果轴大约有九到十英寸长。

And the pine cone was probably about nine or 10 inches long, the cob of the pine cone that is.

有趣的是，那只松鼠是沿着果轴的长度方向，从尖端开始叼着它走的。

And the interesting thing is that the squirrel was carrying it long ways from the tip of the cob.

我为此感到非常欣喜，因为这只小松鼠正如此努力地拖着这个物体穿过树林。

And so I delighted in the fact that this little squirrel was working so hard to carry this object through the woods.

而这个物体的长度实际上比它自己的身体还要长。

And this object was literally longer than its own body length.

它看起来如此专注，沿着小路奔跑，仿佛要完成某种与松果核有关的任务。

And it looks so dedicated and it's running across the path in order to do whatever it would with that pine cone cob.

像这样的场景显然深深印在我的记忆里，让我感到愉悦，与此同时，除了这种新奇的野生动物体验外，还有许多其他事情正在发生。

So something like that obviously stuck in my memory, it delighted me, and at the very same time, there were a number of other things happening besides the presence of that novel wildlife experience.

有溪流的声音，有阳光，还有四处可见的色彩对比。

There was the sound of a stream, there's the sunlight, there's the color contrast everywhere.

我呼吸着新鲜空气，因为我当时远离任何汽车或文明社会。

I'm breathing fresh air because I was far away from any cars or any civilization in fact.

那么，我们来看看已知的信息。

And so here's what we know.

有数十项，甚至数百项研究表明，如果人们走出户外进入自然环境——这可以是公园、溪流附近、海洋，或任何其他自然环境，并且每周进行三到七次，每次十到三十分钟，确实能显著降低血压、静息心率，改善睡眠和情绪。

There are dozens, if not hundreds of studies that show that if people get out of doors into nature, this could be parks, this could be near a stream, this could be an ocean, any number of different natural environments, and if they do that for anywhere from ten to thirty minutes, three to seven days per week, indeed, there are demonstrated significant reductions in things like blood pressure, resting heart rate, improvements in sleep, improvements in mood.

因此，我认为我们可以非常可靠地断言：是的，甚至可以说是绝对肯定的，走进自然能够提升心理健康、身体健康，进而改善生活各个方面的表现。

And so I think we can very reliably say that yes, or perhaps even absolutely yes, getting outside into nature can enhance various aspects of mental health, physical health, and thereby performance in different aspects of life.

然而，在谈论进入自然的好处时，我们所涉及的变量有数百个，甚至上千个，其中一些我们已知，比如野生动物的存在、阳光或色彩对比，当然，还有数十、数百，甚至可能上千个我们尚未察觉的其他变量。

However, when talking about the benefits of getting into nature, we are talking about hundreds, if not thousands of variables, some of which we are aware of, such as the presence of wildlife or sunlight or color contrast, and then of course there are going to be dozens, if not hundreds, maybe even thousands of other variables that we're not even aware of.

也许是负离子化作用。

Perhaps it's negative ionization.

大多数人走进大自然时并不会测量空气中的离子浓度，但也许还与土壤分解后释放的某些气味有关，这些气味会改变你周围空气的氧合状态，以及植物等。

Most people aren't measuring the ionization of the air when they go out into nature, but perhaps it's also the presence of certain smells from the soils that are being broken down and then they're changing the oxygenation state of the air around you, the plants, etcetera.

同样，有太多变量了，坦白说，试图在实验室中孤立其中任何一个变量，不仅显得人为，而且我认为这反而会削弱人们对大自然价值的感知。

Again, so many variables that frankly to try and isolate any one of those variables in the laboratory seems not just artificial, but I think that it actually would just lead to a diminished sense of just how valuable nature is.

因此，虽然《休伯曼实验室播客》始终以科学和基于高质量同行评审研究的科学工具（即经过对照条件验证的方案）为核心——比如一些人接受药物治疗、服用补充剂或进行某种行为练习，而另一些人则没有，或进行不同变体，并研究剂量反应曲线等。

So while of course the Huberman Lab Podcast is a podcast where we always center on science and science related tools, meaning protocols that are grounded in quality peer reviewed studies that have been subjected to control conditions where some people are getting, say the drug treatment or taking the supplement or doing a particular behavioral practice and other people are not, or doing some variant of those and dose response curves, all of that stuff.

但在讨论是否应该走进大自然时，我认为答案非常明确：是的，绝对没错。

When it comes to the question of whether or not it's valuable to get out into nature, I think it's a very straightforward yes, absolutely yes.

尽可能频繁且安全地走进大自然。

Get out into nature as often as you can and safely can, of course.

我明白这受天气影响，人们生活在不同地区，有些人住在城市，有些人住在沙漠，有些人靠近海洋，但已有大量研究反复证明，走进大自然对健康有诸多积极影响。

I realize some of this is weather permitting, people live in different areas, some people are in cities, some people are in deserts, some people are near the ocean, but getting out into nature has been shown over and over again to have numerous positive health effects.

然而，除非我们讨论的是日光照射，并单独隔离‘通过清晨接触日光来调节昼夜节律’这一变量，否则所有其他走进大自然的特征——比如森林浴，这是一个源自日本一些相当出色研究的术语，人们会在森林般的环境中停留一定时间。

And yet, unless we're talking about sunlight exposure and isolating the variable of setting one's circadian rhythm by viewing sunlight early in the day, all of the other features of getting out into nature, things like forest bathing, this is a term coined from some frankly pretty nice studies that were done in Japan, in which people placed themselves into forest like environments for a certain period of time.

研究中设有对照组，这些人并未置身于这些环境中，而进行所谓森林浴的人则经历了心理和生理健康的改善，这也促使一些无法外出进入森林的人将植物带入家中，我想我们都同意，植物看起来很美观。

There were control groups where people were not placed into those environments and the people that did this so called forest bathing experienced enhanced mental and physical health that brought on a practice of people who could not get out of doors into forests, bringing plants into their home environment, which I think all of us would agree look nice.

他们常常会在空气中添加令人愉悦的气味，这些气味或许确实以显著的方式影响了我们的心理和生理健康。

They often will add pleasant odors to the air and perhaps they do actually shift our mental and physical health in significant ways.

我想这取决于你有多喜欢植物、你有多关注它们，当然，还有植物的数量。

I suppose it depends on how much you like plants, how much you pay attention to them, and of course, how many plants there are.

但，我想强调一个非常重要的但书：当涉及增强健康的工具和方法时，大多数问题都会让我立刻想到‘这项研究’或‘那项研究’，或者‘有证据’或‘没有证据’。

But, and I think this is a really important but to emphasize, while most all questions about tools and protocols for enhancing health immediately lead me to say, ah, this study or that study, or yes, there's evidence or no, there isn't evidence.

但当谈到自然和接地这一话题时，我的立场是：这是一个独特的案例，我们已知户外接触自然有如此多的好处，试图在实验室中以严谨、高质量的方式隔离其中任何一个变量，几乎显得过于人为，难以真正支持由此得出的结论。

When it comes to questions about nature and grounding in particular, I take the stance that this is a unique instance where we know there are just so many benefits of getting out into nature that trying to isolate any one of those variables in a quality, rigorous way within the laboratory almost seems too artificial to really justify the conclusions that arrive.

当然，我相信你们中有些人已经知道，如果还不知道，我现在就告诉你们：已经有一些研究探讨了所谓的‘接地’实践。

Now, I'm sure there are some of you out there who are aware, and if you're not, I'll tell you, there are studies that have explored this practice of so called grounding.

这些研究让受试者进入实验室，将双脚置于一个装有土壤的盒子上，或者有其他研究让受试者走到户外，将双脚直接放在草地或地面上。

They've had people come into the laboratory and place their feet on soil that is contained within a box, or there are other studies where they actually have people go out of doors and place their feet onto the grass or the ground.

关于接地如何改善心理健康和生理健康，存在多种理论，而这些理论并不仅仅与‘外出’有关。

And there are a bunch of theories as to how grounding could improve one's mental and physical health that aren't just about getting outside.

因此，这些理论认为，这与人体和地球表面之间的电子交换有关。

So the theories go that this has to do with the exchange of electrons with the earth and the earth's surface in particular.

有人提出，尤其是橡胶底的鞋子，可能会阻断人体与地球表面之间的电子交换。

There's been the argument made that shoes, in particular shoes that have rubber soles, may block some of this electron exchange with the surface of the earth.

还有一些理论认为，与大地接触的触觉感受也很重要。

There have been theories about the tactile, that is the touch sensation with the earth being important.

在所谓的顶尖期刊上，关于这一点发表的科学文献并不多——这并不是要贬低这些研究发表的期刊，而是想说明，像接地这样的实践涉及太多变量，所以我只想说：是的，请尽量到户外接触大自然。

Not a lot of science published in, let's just say blue ribbon journals, which is not to diminish some of the journals that these have been published in, but just to say that, again, there are so many variables associated with a practice such as grounding that I'll simply say, yes, please do get out of doors into nature.

我每周日都会尝试通过负重徒步、慢跑或徒步来完成我的二区心肺训练，如果我想和家人或其他人社交，也会和他们一起进行；但关键是，到户外活动对心理健康和身体健康有诸多益处，当然，当你在户外活动时，你也在通过提高心率获得二区心肺训练或其他形式的身体益处，或者你也可以在其他日子到户外进行力量训练。

I try every Sunday to do my zone two cardio by rucking or jogging or hiking often with other people, if I'm trying to be social with family or others, but the point is getting out of doors has myriad positive effects on mental health and physical health, and of course, when you're moving out of doors, you're also getting that zone two cardio or other forms of physical benefit by elevating your heart rate, or perhaps you could even do your resistance training out of doors on other days.

我也会在一周的其他日子尽量到户外活动，但常常因为天气或其他安排，不得不待在室内，比如在这间播客工作室里，我当然也是在室内；但我仍尽量每天至少出门几分钟，进行晨间散步，晒晒太阳等等。

Now, I also try to get out of doors other days of the week, but oftentimes I'm, by way of weather or by way of other commitments, forced to be indoors on planes here at the podcast studio where certainly I'm indoors, but I try and get out of doors at least a few minutes each day for a morning stroll, looking at sunlight, etcetera.

所以，简而言之，接地确实有一些证据支持。

So the long and short of this is, yes, there's some evidence for grounding.

这些证据非常强有力吗？

Is it super strong evidence?

不，不是的。

No, it's not.

我们其实还不清楚，把脚放在地上为什么会带来那些研究中观察到的积极效果。

We don't really know what it is about placing one's feet onto the earth that is producing the positive effects that were observed in those studies.

那些研究曾试图合理地隔离变量，以判断是与地球的离子交换，还是脚接触地面的触觉感受在起作用。

And those studies made some reasonable attempt to isolate the variables and figure out whether or not it was ion exchange with the earth or the tactile, meaning the touch sensation of having one's feet on the ground.

坦白说，我认为目前还没有足够高质量的科学证据能得出明确的结论。

Frankly, I don't think there's enough quality science to really draw any firm conclusions about that.

然而，如果你喜欢接地这个理念，那就尽管去做吧。

However, if you like the idea of grounding, by all means do it.

事实上，如果这让你感觉良好，我建议你早晨赤脚站在地上接受日光。

In fact, if it feels good to you, I recommend getting your morning sunlight out of doors with your bare feet on the ground.

或者，像我一样，你穿上鞋子，大多数日子都去散步。

Or if you're like me, you put on shoes and you take a walk most days.

虽然我尝试过接地这个做法，感觉确实不错——只要我踩在干净的土壤或草坪上，脚接触大地就让人很舒服。

Although I've tried this practice of grounding and it feels pretty good, meaning it feels nice to have my feet on the earth provided I'm on clean soil or clean lawn.

绝对不要在狗公园里这么做。

Definitely don't do this at the dog park.

顺便说一下，钩虫病是真实存在的。

Hookworm is a real thing by the way, folks.

注意你双脚接触的地面类型。

Pay So attention to the sorts of surfaces that you're putting your feet onto.

但关于大自然是否对我们的身心健康有益，这个问题很简单。

But the question about whether or not nature is valuable for our mental and physical health is an easy one.

答案绝对是肯定的，但要 pinpoint 出大自然中最具益处的具体因素，那就难多了。坦白说，科学方法目前无法做到，而且老实讲，我认为永远也无法真正精确地确定，因为一旦你把这个问题具体化，就会削弱研究本身的价值。

It's an absolute yes, but isolating the particular variables about nature that are most beneficial, Well, that's a much tougher question, it's one that frankly the scientific method is not, and to be honest, I don't think ever will be in a position to isolate and really nail down specifically, because as soon as you get specific about that question, you start to diminish the value of the study itself.

所以，简而言之，尽可能安全地多接触大自然。

So the long and short of this is get out into nature as often as you safely can.

如果能在户外锻炼，那就更好了。

If you can exercise out of doors, even better.

如果你想让这变成社交活动，那就再好不过了。

If you want to make it social, great.

如果你不想把它变成社交活动，也没关系。

If you don't want to make it social, fine.

这是你的生活，由你决定。

It's your life, it's up to you.

但走进大自然确实很有价值。

But there certainly is value in getting out into nature.

从视觉和听觉的角度来看，它也同样美丽。

It's also just beautiful from a visual perspective, from an auditory perspective.

我自己每年都会尽量安排几次出行。

And I myself try and take at least a few trips each year.

这些旅行都不贵，我主要去徒步、露营，每周在大自然中散步对我来说是绝对必要的。

None of these are particularly expensive trips where I try and get out hiking, camping, the weekly walks in nature are an absolute must for me.

如果因为天气或旅行而错过一次，我一定会在接下来的一周尽量找机会多接触大自然。

If I miss one because of weather conditions or travel, I make it a point to try and get into nature more during the following week whenever I can.

坦白说，除了阳光、接地效应和负离子这些因素，我并没有科学的解释为什么大自然如此有益。

And frankly, I don't have a scientific explanation for why nature is oh so beneficial except for the sunlight piece and perhaps this grounding piece and the negative ionization piece.

坦率地说，我并不太在意那些缺乏变量隔离性、未经同行评审的研究是否支持接触自然的好处。

And frankly, I don't worry so much about the lack of variable isolating quality peer reviewed studies that support the benefits of getting out into nature.

我只是尽可能多地走进自然，体验不同的自然环境，因为无论出于什么原因，我猜想这些好处可能与血清素、多巴胺、荷尔蒙、催产素有关，很可能还涉及我们的神经系统在自然环境中演化出的多种机制。

I simply like getting out into nature and into different natural environments as much as I possibly can, because for whatever reason, imagine those reasons have something to do with serotonin, dopamine, hormones, oxytocin, probably a bunch of different things that are rooted in how our nervous system evolved in natural environments.

simply feels really good.

Well, it just feels really good.

感谢您参与本场问答环节的开始部分。

Thank you for joining for the beginning of this Ask Me Anything episode.

要收听完整 episode，以及未来的这些问答环节，同时获取它们的文本稿，还有 Huberman Lab 播客标准频道的文本稿，以及仅在 Premium 通道提供的独家工具，请访问 hubermanlab.com/premium。

To hear the full episode and to hear future episodes of these Ask Me Anything sessions, plus to receive transcripts of them and transcripts of the Huberman Lab Podcast Standard Channel and premium tools not released anywhere else, please go to hubermanlab.com/premium.

只是为了提醒大家我们推出 Huberman Lab 播客 Premium 频道的真正原因，其实有两个方面。

Just to remind you why we launched the Huberman Lab Podcast Premium Channel, it's really twofold.

首先，是为了支持标准的 Huberman Lab 播客频道，该频道当然仍会每周一完整发布。

First of all, it's to raise support for the standard Huberman Lab Podcast Channel, which of course will still be continued to be released every Monday in full length.

我们不会改变标准 Huberman Lab 播客的任何形式或内容，并且要资助针对人类的研究——而非动物模型——我相信我们都认同人类是我们最感兴趣的物种，我们将专门资助旨在开发心理健康、身体健康和表现提升新方法的研究，这些方法将通过所有渠道发布，而不仅限于 Premium 频道，还包括 Huberman Lab 播客及其他媒体渠道。

We are not going to change the format or anything about the Standard Huberman Lab Podcast and to fund research, in particular research done on human beings, so not animal models, on human beings, which I think we all agree is a species that we are most interested in, and we are going to specifically fund research that is aimed toward developing further protocols for mental health, physical health, and performance, and those protocols will be distributed through all channels, not just the premium channel, but through all channels, Huberman Lab Podcasts and other media channels.

因此，这里的目的是向您深入解答您最关心的问题，并让您有机会支持那些能够提供这类答案的研究。

So the idea here is to give you information to your burning questions in-depth and allow you the opportunity to support the kind of research that provides those kinds of answers in the first place.

现在，高级频道的一个特别令人兴奋的特色是，Tiny基金会慷慨承诺对通过高级频道筹集的所有研究资金进行一比一匹配。

Now, an especially exciting feature of the premium channel is that the Tiny Foundation has generously offered to do a dollar for dollar match on all funds raised for research through the premium channel.

因此，这是他们放大通过高级频道流入的资金、进一步支持心理健康、身体健康和表现相关科学研究与工具的一种绝佳方式。

So this is a terrific way that they're going to amplify whatever funds come in through the premium channel to further support research for science and science related tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

如果您想注册Huberman Lab高级频道，每月费用为10美元，或者您可以一次性支付100美元购买全年服务。

If you'd like to sign up for the Huberton Lab premium channel, again, there's a cost of $10 per month, or you can pay $100 upfront for the entire year.

这将使您能够访问所有AMA内容。

That will give you access to all the AMAs.

您可以提出问题并获得针对您问题的回答。

You can ask questions and get answers to your questions.

当然，您也会获得其他用户所提问题的答案。

And you'll of course get answers to all the questions that other people ask as well.

此外，您还将获得一些独家内容，例如AMA的文本稿，以及在其他地方找不到的Huberman Lab播客集锦和各类方案。

There will also be some premium content such as transcripts of the AMAs and various transcripts and protocols of Huberman Lab podcast episodes not found elsewhere.

而且，您将支持心理健康、身体健康和表现方面的研究。

And again, you'll be supporting research for mental health, physical health, and performance.

您可以通过访问 hubermanlab.com/premium 来订阅高级频道。

You can sign up for the premium channel by going to hubermanlab.com/premium.

再次提醒，网址是 hubermanlab.com/premium。

Again, that's hubermanlab.com/premium.

一如既往，感谢您对科学的关注。

And as always, thank you for your interest in science.