斯泰西·西姆斯博士：女性专属运动与营养指南——健康、表现与长寿之道

欢迎来到Huberman实验室播客，在这里我们探讨科学及基于科学的日常生活工具。我是Andrew Huberman，斯坦福医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。今天的嘉宾是Stacey Sims博士。

Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Doctor. Stacey Sims. Doctor.

Stacey Sims博士是运动生理学家、营养科学家，也是女性专项训练与营养领域的全球权威。除了在斯坦福工作并与众多职业运动队合作外，Sims博士还发表了100多篇关于运动生理学的同行评审研究。她不仅评估了针对女性与男性的现有营养和健身方案，还开发了许多新方案，这些方案不仅被职业运动队采用，也适用于广大对健身与长寿感兴趣的普通人群。

Stacey Sims is an exercise physiologist and a nutrition scientist and a world expert in all things training and nutrition specifically for women. In addition to working at Stanford and with numerous professional athletic teams, Doctor. Sims has authored more than 100 peer reviewed studies on exercise physiology. She has not only evaluated existing protocols for nutrition and fitness that are specific to women versus men, but she has also developed many new protocols that are now in practice with professional sports teams, but that can also serve people who are generally interested in fitness and longevity and in doing so the general public. The tools that Doctor.

Sims博士今天分享的工具适用于健身、改变体成分及整体健康。我们将讨论激素和激素周期如何影响不同年龄段女性的营养与健身需求，涵盖月经周期、围绝经期和更年期，也包括与激素无关的女性专项营养与训练。例如，我们会评估女性可能不适合空腹训练的证据及其原因，并探讨训练如何根据月经周期不同阶段进行调整。

Sims shares with us today are applicable to fitness, to changing your body composition and to overall health. Today, discuss how hormones and hormone cycles impact nutrition and fitness needs specifically in women of different ages. We of course discuss the menstrual cycle, perimenopause and menopause, but also female specific nutrition and training as it relates to things independent of hormones. For instance, we evaluate the evidence that women may not want to train fasted and the reasons for that. We talk about how training might vary according to different phases of the menstrual cycle.

我们还将讨论女性如何设计符合其特定需求的营养与训练计划——不仅因为她们是女性，更因为她们处于特定人生阶段并有特定目标。正如您将看到的，Sims博士精于阐释营养与训练的人类共性（即男女无差异的需求），

And we discuss how women can design nutrition and training programs that are optimized for their specific needs. Not just because they are women, but because they are women of a particular stage of life and women with particular goals. As you'll soon see Doctor. Sims is exquisitely skilled at explaining the human universals of nutrition and training. That is the things that do not differ between men and women and their needs in terms of nutrition and training.

同时也擅长强调数据显示的男女营养与健身差异领域及女性特殊需求。今天您将了解这些差异，并学习如何应用具体方案。到本期节目结束时，您将掌握大量关于生物机制的新知识，以及指导实现女性专属健康健身目标的具体准则。节目开始前，我想强调本播客与我在斯坦福的教学和研究职责无关，而是我向公众免费传播科学及相关工具的努力。为此，我要感谢本期播客的赞助商。

But she is also exquisitely skilled at highlighting the data showing that there are specific areas of nutrition and fitness for which women and men differ and women have specific needs. So today you will learn what those are and you will learn how to apply those specific protocols such that by the end of today's episode, you'll be armed with a tremendous amount of new knowledge about the biological mechanisms and the specific dos and do nots that can guide you towards your female specific health and fitness goals. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.

我们的首位赞助商是茂宜岛努伊鹿肉。茂宜岛努伊鹿肉是目前可获取的营养最密集且美味的红肉。我之前在本播客及其他节目中多次提及，并与多位专家嘉宾讨论过，大多数人每天应追求每磅体重摄入约一克优质蛋白质。这些蛋白质不仅为肌肉修复与合成等提供关键构建模块，也对整体新陈代谢和健康至关重要。茂宜岛努伊鹿肉具有极高的蛋白质与卡路里质量比，使您能轻松达成每日蛋白质摄入目标，同时避免过量卡路里摄入。

Our first sponsor is Maui Nui Venison. Maui Nui Venison is the most nutrient dense and delicious red meat available. I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts and with several expert guests on this podcast about the fact that most of us should be seeking to get about one gram of high quality protein per pound of body weight every day. Not only does that protein provide critical building blocks for things like muscle repair and synthesis, but also for overall metabolism and health. Maui Nui Venison has an extremely high quality protein per calorie ratio so that you can get that one gram of protein per pound of body weight easily and without ingesting an excess of calories.

此外，茂宜岛努伊鹿肉绝对美味。我钟爱他们的鹿肉牛排、绞鹿肉、骨汤，以及旅行时极其便利的肉干——每根茂宜岛努伊鹿肉干含10克优质蛋白质却仅55卡路里。虽然茂宜岛努伊提供最高品质的肉类，但其供应量有限。对茂宜岛鹿群数量的负责任管理意味着他们不会超额捕猎。

Also Maui Nui venison is absolutely delicious. I love their venison steaks, their ground venison, I love their bone broth, and I love their jerky, which is extremely convenient when you're traveling. Those Maui Nui venison jerky sticks have 10 grams of high quality protein per stick at just 55 calories. While Maui Nui offers the highest quality meat available, their supplies are limited. Responsible management of the access deer population on the island of Maui means that they will not go beyond harvest capacity.

因此注册会员是确保获取其优质肉类的最佳方式。若想尝试茂宜岛努伊鹿肉，请访问mauinuivenison.com/huberman，会员或首单可享8折优惠。再次提醒：mauinuivenison.com/huberman。本期节目也由Eight Sleep赞助播出。Eight Sleep生产具备冷却、加热及睡眠追踪功能的智能床垫保护套。

So signing up for a membership is the best way to ensure access to their high quality meat. If you'd like to try Maui Nui Venison, you can go to mauinuivenison.com/huberman to get 20% off your membership or first order. Again, that's mauinuivenison.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

我曾多次在本播客强调每晚获得充足优质睡眠的极端重要性。控制睡眠环境温度是保障优质睡眠的最佳方式之一——因为人体需降低1-3度体温才能进入并保持深度睡眠，而醒来时体温需回升1-3度才能感觉神清气爽。Eight Sleep通过编程设定夜间不同时段的床垫温度，让睡眠环境控温变得异常简单。

Now I've spoken many times before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each night. One of the best ways to ensure a great night's sleep is to control the temperature of your sleeping environment. And that's because in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually has to drop by about one to three degrees. And in order to wake up feeling refreshed and energized, your body temperature actually has to increase by about one to three degrees. Eight Sleep makes it incredibly easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment by allowing you to program the temperature of your mattress cover at the beginning, middle, and end of the night.

我使用Eight Sleep床垫保护套已超三年，它彻底改善了我的睡眠质量。Eight Sleep最新推出的第四代Pod四Ultra保护套，拥有更强的冷热调节能力、更高精度的睡眠追踪技术，以及能自动抬升头部角度以改善气流、消除打鼾的智能侦测功能。若想体验Eight Sleep产品，访问eightsleep.com/huberman可立减350美元购买Pod四Ultra。目前配送范围涵盖美国、加拿大、英国、部分欧盟国家及澳大利亚。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for well over three years now, and it has completely transformed my sleep for the better. Eight Sleep recently launched their newest generation pod cover, the Pod four Ultra. The Pod four Ultra has improved cooling and heating capacity, higher fidelity sleep tracking technology, and it also has snoring detection that remarkably will automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve your airflow and stop your snoring. If you'd like to try an Eight Sleep mattress cover, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save $350 off their Pod four Ultra. Eight Sleep currently ships to The USA, Canada, UK, select countries in The EU and Australia.

再次提醒，网址是eightsleep.com/huberman。今天的节目也由Waking Up赞助。Waking Up是一款冥想应用，提供数百种引导冥想课程、正念训练、瑜伽休息术等内容。我从15岁左右开始练习冥想，它对我的生活产生了深远影响。如今已有数千项高质量的同行评审研究强调正念冥想对提升专注力、管理压力焦虑、改善情绪等方面的显著功效。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Waking Up. Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more. I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old and it made a profound impact on my life. And by now there are thousands of quality peer reviewed studies that emphasize how useful mindfulness meditation can be for improving our focus, managing stress and anxiety, improving our mood, and much more.

近年来我开始使用Waking Up应用进行冥想，因为它能真正帮助我保持冥想习惯的持续性。很多人开始冥想后获得了一些益处，但也难以坚持。我和许多用户喜爱这款应用的原因在于它提供多种时长各异的冥想选择，既保持了新鲜感——你永远不会厌倦，总有新内容可以探索学习；又能灵活安排——即使每天只有两三分钟也能坚持练习。

In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditation because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice. Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice. What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from, and those meditations are of different durations. So it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty, you never get tired of those meditations, there's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation. And you can always fit meditation into your schedule, even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate.

我还特别喜欢进行10-20分钟的瑜伽休息术（或称非睡眠深度休息），它能恢复身心活力，又不会像普通午睡后那样让人昏沉。如果你想尝试Waking Up应用，请访问wakingup.com/huberman获取30天免费试用。重申一次，登录wakingup.com/huberman即可获得30天免费试用。现在有请Stacey Sims博士。

I also really like doing yoga nidra or what is sometimes called non sleep deep rest for about ten or twenty minutes, because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap. If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman, where you can access a free thirty day trial. Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free thirty day trial. And now for my discussion with Doctor. Stacey Sims.

Stacy Sims博士，欢迎您。

Doctor. Stacy Sims, welcome.

谢谢。

Thanks.

我们的播客发布过大量关于营养、健身、冷热暴露、补水等主题的内容，这些不仅是您专业领域的核心，更是您针对女性健康有着独特见解的方向。今天能对话让我特别兴奋，因为我经常在社交媒体和YouTube评论区收到提问：'这项研究是否包含女性样本？''对男女效果有何差异？'

Our podcast and I put out a lot of content about nutrition, fitness, cold exposure, heat exposure, hydration, topics that are very near and dear to your heart and for which you have a ton of expertise, but for which you have an extra degree of expertise as it relates to females specifically. Yeah. So I'm excited to talk to you today because very often, I will get questions in the comment section on social media or on YouTube. Was this study done in both men and women? How does it differ for men versus women?

诸如此类的问题我通常无法解答，但您能给出答案。

And on and on. And I rarely, if ever, have answers, but you have answers.

我可以为您解答。

I have answers for you.

太好了。首先从最常见的问题开始——禁食。

Great. So just to kick things off, because this is a question I get really often. Fasting.

哦，这个啊。

Oh, yeah.

间歇性断食。没错。当然，我们需要区分这两者。是的。关于男性和女性差异，我最常被问到的问题或许就是间歇性断食（有时也称为限时进食）——比如8小时进食窗口、6小时进食窗口或10小时进食窗口。

Intermittent fasting. Yep. We need to distinguish between the two, of course. Yeah. Perhaps the most common question I get as it relates to males versus females is is intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding as it's sometimes called, an eight hour feeding window, a six hour feeding window, a ten hour feeding window.

这种方式对男女的效果和影响是否存在差异呢？

Is that something that perhaps differs in terms of its impact and how well it works for men versus women?

简短回答是肯定的。好极了。嗯，我来具体说明一下。当我们谈论间歇性断食时，指的是20小时禁食窗口，或者坚持到中午甚至更晚才进食。

That's the short answer. Great. Yeah, yeah. So I'll put some parameters around it, right? So if we talk about intermittent fasting, that's where you have like the twenty hour non feeding window, or you're holding a fast until noon or after.

而限时进食则是正常饮食的雅称，即你会吃早餐，晚餐后不再进食。这样你的饮食就与白天的昼夜节律同步。对于坚持到中午才进食或进行极低热量限制的间歇性断食，我们发现这对活跃女性非常有害——除非患有多囊卵巢综合征或其他亚临床问题。这是因为女性拥有更多氧化型肌纤维。

And then we have time restricted eating, and that's the fancy way of saying normal eating, where you're having breakfast and then you stop eating or you don't have anything after dinner. So you're eating with your circadian rhythm during the day. If we look at intermittent fasting where you're holding the fast up till noon, or you're having days of really low calorie restriction, we see in active women it's very detrimental. Unless you have PCOS or you have some other subclinical issue. And the reason for that is we, as women, have more oxidative fibers.

我们总听说断食能提升代谢灵活性、延长端粒长度、增强副交感神经活性。但由于女性天生具有更多氧化型肌纤维，我们的代谢本就比...

We hear about all the things about fasting to improve our metabolic flexibility, to improve telomere length, to improve parasympathetic activation. But by the nature of women having more oxidative fibers, we are already metabolically more flexible than

男性更灵活。真有趣。之前不知道这点。能否详细解释什么是氧化型肌纤维及其与代谢灵活性的关系？

men. Interesting. Didn't know that. Could you elaborate on more oxidative fibers, what that is, and how it relates to metabolic flexibility?

氧化型肌纤维是具有更强有氧能力的肌肉纤维。这类纤维能支持长时间低强度运动，因为它们大量利用游离脂肪酸。需要少量葡萄糖来激活这些脂肪酸。所以女性运动时先消耗血糖，再转向游离脂肪酸供能——而非过多动用肝糖原和肌糖原，这是另一个常见误解。

So oxidative fibers are muscle fibers that are more aerobic capacity. So those are the ones that you can go long and slow for a very long period of time because it uses a lot of free fatty acids. You need a little bit of glucose in order to activate those free fatty acids. So when a woman starts to exercise, she goes through blood glucose first, and then gets into free fatty acid use. She doesn't tap so much into liver and muscle glycogen, which is I think another misconception that happens.

因此空腹运动或长时间断食会增加女性压力。从整体压力角度看，这会提升皮质醇水平。由于缺乏能量补给，她们无法达到足够运动强度来激发生长激素和睾酮的锻炼后分泌（这些激素能降低皮质醇）。从下丘脑视角看，大脑中有两组调控女性的Kispeptin神经元（男性仅一组），分别控制食欲/促黄体激素和雌激素/甲状腺功能。

So when we're talking about fasting or fasted workouts, trying to improve that metabolic flexibility, it increases stress on the woman. And so when we're talking about overall stress, we're talking about cortisol increase and they can't hit intensities high enough with no fuel to be able to invoke the post exercise responses of growth hormone and testosterone, which then drop cortisol. So from an overall stress perspective, that fasted workout and holding that fast for a long period of time increases cortisol. But then when we look from a hypothalamic point of view and we're looking at how the brain reads it, we know that there's one area of Kispeptin neurons in the brain for men, there are two for women. So the two areas are distinct where one controls appetite and luteinizing hormone, and the other one is looking at estrogen and thyroid.

如果持续承受空腹运动或日常能量不足的压力，就会干扰这些Kispeptin神经元并使其下调。四天后就会出现甲状腺功能紊乱，促黄体激素脉冲变化（这对维持内分泌功能至关重要）。有人会说‘我断食多年效果很好’，但关键问题是：如果遵循昼夜节律、根据当前压力合理补充能量（这样压力更小），并据此调整营养摄入而非坚持断食，你的状态会不会更好？

So if you start having an exercise stress or a daily stress of getting up and going on with your day without fuel, you perturb those Kispeptin neurons and down regulate them. So when you start down regulating them, we see that after four days you have a dysregulation of thyroid. We have a change in our luteinizing hormone pulse, which is really important to maintain endocrine function. And we'll hear this, Oh, I've been fasting for so many years and it does great for me. But the other side of the question is, Well, how much better would you be if you were to pay attention to your circadian rhythm and fuel according to the stress at hand and knowing that you're going to garner less stress that way and if we're really tying in nutrition according to that profile instead of following a fast?

非断食状态下，女性大脑功能改善更显著：认知能力更强，甲状腺功能障碍更少。最新人群研究显示，无论男女，中午12点至晚6点进食窗口的人群，比早8点至下午4/5点进食窗口的人群更容易出现致胖结果。

We see better brain improvements as well. We see more cognitive function. We see less thyroid dysfunction. Overall, a woman does much better when we're not in that fasted state. Then when you look at population research that's coming out now, they're showing in both men and women who hold their fasts till noon and then have an eating window from noon to maybe 6PM have more obesogenic outcomes than people who break their fast at eight and finished their eating window by four or 5PM.

So it's coming back to the chronobiology of we need to eat when our body is under stress and needs it, unless we have a specific issue like obesity inactivity, PCOS, or other metabolic conditions, then we can look at using fasting as a strategic intervention to help with those modalities.

So it's coming back to the chronobiology of we need to eat when our body is under stress and needs it, unless we have a specific issue like obesity inactivity, PCOS, or other metabolic conditions, then we can look at using fasting as a strategic intervention to help with those modalities.

Super interesting. Two questions. Is there a protective effect of starting the eating window? And here, I'm asking for both men and women. Starting the eating window at, say, 11AM or noon and ending it a little bit later.

Super interesting. Two questions. Is there a protective effect of starting the eating window? And here, I'm asking for both men and women. Starting the eating window at, say, 11AM or noon and ending it a little bit later.

So not a six hour eating window, or seven hour eating window, but extending that to eight or 9PM. Under those conditions, do you still see the obesogenic effect?

So not a six hour eating window, or seven hour eating window, but extending that to eight or 9PM. Under those conditions, do you still see the obesogenic effect?

Yes, because we're looking at the way cortisol responds. We know cortisol has lots of fluctuations throughout the day, and it peaks about half an hour after you wake up, right? So if you're having that cortisol peak half an hour after you wake up but you're not eating, then that is that higher baseline sympathetic drive for women. For men, it's not the same. So when we're looking at that obesogenic outcome, the actual timing hasn't been tested yet to see how can we expand or contract that eating window for men.

Yes, because we're looking at the way cortisol responds. We know cortisol has lots of fluctuations throughout the day, and it peaks about half an hour after you wake up, right? So if you're having that cortisol peak half an hour after you wake up but you're not eating, then that is that higher baseline sympathetic drive for women. For men, it's not the same. So when we're looking at that obesogenic outcome, the actual timing hasn't been tested yet to see how can we expand or contract that eating window for men.

But for women, because of that cortisol peak right after waking up, women tend to be already sympathetically driven. So then they walk around more tired, but wired, and have a really, really difficult time accessing any kind of parasympathetic responses down the way. Where if you have something really small where you're bringing blood sugar up, then it's signaling to the hypothalamus, Hey, yeah, there's some nutrition on board. Then we can start our day. So again, it has to look at that circadian rhythm and those hormone fluxes which people don't really either understand or talk about.

But for women, because of that cortisol peak right after waking up, women tend to be already sympathetically driven. So then they walk around more tired, but wired, and have a really, really difficult time accessing any kind of parasympathetic responses down the way. Where if you have something really small where you're bringing blood sugar up, then it's signaling to the hypothalamus, Hey, yeah, there's some nutrition on board. Then we can start our day. So again, it has to look at that circadian rhythm and those hormone fluxes which people don't really either understand or talk about.

Because all of our hormones flux through the day. So you have to look at where's the peak of cortisol, how does estrogen flux, how does luteinizing hormone flux, progesterone, all of these things that have this tight interplay. And the more we're doing the hormone research, and the more we're understanding these perturbations, and how important it is to fuel for it, to stay out of any kind of low energy availability stance.

Because all of our hormones flux through the day. So you have to look at where's the peak of cortisol, how does estrogen flux, how does luteinizing hormone flux, progesterone, all of these things that have this tight interplay. And the more we're doing the hormone research, and the more we're understanding these perturbations, and how important it is to fuel for it, to stay out of any kind of low energy availability stance.

Regular listeners of this podcast will know this, but just to remind everybody, a sympathetic state has nothing to do with emotional sympathy. It's the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, drives more arousal and alertness, and at higher levels, stress, sometimes called the fight or flight response. Parasympathetic being the other arm of the autonomic nervous system, sometimes called the rest and digest arm of the autonomic nervous system. They work sort of like a seesaw or a push pull, pick your analogy. In any case, it sounds like intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, unless it's very well aligned to the circadian rhythm, is not going to be advantageous for women.

Regular listeners of this podcast will know this, but just to remind everybody, a sympathetic state has nothing to do with emotional sympathy. It's the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, drives more arousal and alertness, and at higher levels, stress, sometimes called the fight or flight response. Parasympathetic being the other arm of the autonomic nervous system, sometimes called the rest and digest arm of the autonomic nervous system. They work sort of like a seesaw or a push pull, pick your analogy. In any case, it sounds like intermittent fasting or time restricted feeding, unless it's very well aligned to the circadian rhythm, is not going to be advantageous for women.

That's what I'm hearing. I'm also hearing that if a woman trains while fasted, so in the non feeding window, so wakes up, maybe has some hydration and trains, that's going to further exacerbate the stress response in a way that's not going to be good. Exactly. And I have to imagine that if she also is drinking caffeine in order to do that training, because caffeine is a stimulant of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, that it will further exacerbate all these issues. So this is a eye opener for me because I've had female training partners for years.

That's what I'm hearing. I'm also hearing that if a woman trains while fasted, so in the non feeding window, so wakes up, maybe has some hydration and trains, that's going to further exacerbate the stress response in a way that's not going to be good. Exactly. And I have to imagine that if she also is drinking caffeine in order to do that training, because caffeine is a stimulant of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system, that it will further exacerbate all these issues. So this is a eye opener for me because I've had female training partners for years.

I don't eat until 11AM. I like to hydrate and caffeinate before I train in the morning, and then I like to eat starting around noon. Several of them have hopped on that schedule with me. Some of them eat breakfast first, some of them don't, they do as they choose, of course. But now I'm thinking that's probably the worst way to go.

I don't eat until 11AM. I like to hydrate and caffeinate before I train in the morning, and then I like to eat starting around noon. Several of them have hopped on that schedule with me. Some of them eat breakfast first, some of them don't, they do as they choose, of course. But now I'm thinking that's probably the worst way to go.

And it gets worse as you get older. Because if we're seeing as women are getting into perimenopause, which is in their 40s, and we have more fluctuation of those hormones and an increase in baseline cortisol anyway, then when you look at fasted training, it increases that cortisol drive and that sympathetic drive. And because it's at a point where you really need to polarize your training to get any kind of body composition change, not having any fuel before high intensity workout puts them in moderate They just can't hit the intensities they need to. Same with resistance training. Like you go in and a lot of women are now working on sessional RPE or rating perceived exertion.

And it gets worse as you get older. Because if we're seeing as women are getting into perimenopause, which is in their 40s, and we have more fluctuation of those hormones and an increase in baseline cortisol anyway, then when you look at fasted training, it increases that cortisol drive and that sympathetic drive. And because it's at a point where you really need to polarize your training to get any kind of body composition change, not having any fuel before high intensity workout puts them in moderate They just can't hit the intensities they need to. Same with resistance training. Like you go in and a lot of women are now working on sessional RPE or rating perceived exertion.

比如你进去说，好的，我们需要你这次深蹲达到8级强度。这意味着你还有两次余力保留，训练时的自觉用力等级（RPE）为8。但如果他们能量不足，我们会发现他们实际完成的最高负荷会相差2%到5%。所以他们并没有真正达到应有的训练强度区间。

Where you go in and say, Okay, we need you to hit an eight on this squat. So you have two reps in reserve and a sessional RPE of an eight. Well, if they're not fueled, then we're seeing trends that they're missing around two to 5% of that top load. So they're not really lifting in that zone that they need to be in.

先让大家理解RPE——抱歉打断一下。需要先普及RPE这个概念，因为这个术语正逐渐从专业体能...是的...训练圈扩展到更广泛的业余锻炼群体，我自己也属于这个群体。

Let's get people sorry to interrupt. Let's get people up to speed on RPE because this is a term that's starting to circulate more outside the physical Yeah. Training community and to the broader kind of, you know, recreational exerciser community, which I consider myself part of.

现在我也是。我是说，

Me too now. I mean,

我坚持规律训练多年，但并非职业运动员。我的训练没有报酬，诸如此类。所以'余力保留'和'自觉用力'——让我解释下，估计95%的听众从未听过这些术语。

I train regularly and have for years, but I'm not an I'm not an athlete. I don't get paid to train, and I you know, and so forth. So reps in reserve perceived effort let me just explain this. I think probably 95% of our listenership has never heard these terms.

好的，说到余力保留，比如你设定为8级强度，意味着完成8次后还应保留2次余力。即用标准姿势完成8次后，你实际上还能标准地再做2次才会力竭。

Okay, so if we're talking about reps in reserve, this is when you go in and if you say eight, it means you have two reps in reserve. So you finish your eight, and you should be able to complete two more with a really good form and then you hit failure.

也就是说用标准姿势完成8次后，训练者如果咬牙坚持，理论上还能标准地完成2次才会力竭——即无法再用标准姿势举起重量。

So eight repetitions in good form and the person doing the exercise could, in theory, if they really dug in there, grit their teeth, could complete two more repetitions in good form before hitting failure. The inability to move the weight anymore in good form.

完全正确。

Exactly.

明白。但他们停在8次，所以保留了2次余力。

Okay. But they're stopping at eight, so they have two reps in reserve.

没错。这可以与自觉用力等级对应。如果我们要求你在1到10级的自觉用力量表上达到8级，就对应着保留2次余力。这是量化深蹲、硬拉等大重量训练即时强度的方式。

Exactly. And so, can correspond that with your rating perceived exertion. So, if we're saying, We need you to hit an eight on our scale of one to 10 of rating perceived exertion, we see correlates with that eight with two reps in reserve. So it's a way of quantifying what you're doing in the moment for a squat or a deadlift or some other really heavy lift that you're trying to accomplish.

而不是采用单次最大重量的百分比来计算。

As opposed to looking at, say, percentage of one repetition maximum.

是的。

Yeah.

说到要用70%的1RM（一次最大重量）做六次重复。这听起来也很棒，但稍微复杂些，因为你得知道自己的1RM。如果你不擅长这个，做1RM测试可能会很危险，特别是深蹲和硬拉这样的复合动作。对。好的。

Saying you're going to move 70% of your one repetition maximum for six repetitions. Seems like that's a great thing as well, but it's a little bit more complicated because you need to know your one repetition maximum. Doing one repetition maximums can be dangerous if you're not skilled in that, especially with compound movements like squats and deadlifts. Yep. Okay.

那么对于大多数人来说，有没有一个普遍建议，他们通常应该以良好姿势训练到力竭，还是留几次余量？比如对女性——当然这也适用于男性——你有什么建议？

So is there an across the board recommendation for most people that they should generally train their sets in good form to failure, to leave a couple reps in reserve? What do you suggest for, let's say, women, but this could also pertain to men?

这还取决于女性的年龄。如果是20到40岁的育龄期，其实不太重要。你可以像常规周期训练那样安排中周期和小周期，规划几个月的训练内容，比如每周安排大重量或爆发力训练。但进入围绝经期后，随着雌激素水平波动下降——雌激素相当于女性的睾酮，是力量和爆发力的关键驱动因素——我们就必须重视大重量训练。

And then that also depends on the age of the woman. So, if we're looking at the reproductive years, you know, 20 40, then it doesn't matter so much. You can periodize pretty much how normal periodization works with your mesocycles and your microcycles. So you're looking at what you're doing across a few months, what are you doing in the week, are you lifting heavy, power based training. But when we start to get to perimenopause and we're losing all the flux of estrogen, and estrogen is the woman's testosterone, the key driver for strength and power, we have to look at lifting heavy.

这时我们会引导女性采用留2-3次余量的训练方式。因为你的1RM会随训练阶段变化。我们发现保留余量的方法能让训练者当天举起更大重量，这样女性就能进行力量爆发型训练，而不是练到力竭——后者可能需要做20次重复，但无法激发我们想要的中枢神经系统强烈响应。

So this is where we really turn women on to, we want you to do something that is two reps in reserve, three reps in reserve. Because your one rep max also changes depending on what kind of training block you're doing. So we're finding that when you're talking about reps in reserve, then it allows people to lift more on the day. So we can get women to get into that strength and power based type training rather than going, let's lift to fatigue because then it might be 20 reps. And that 20 reps doesn't invoke a big central nervous system response, which is what we want.

那种更多是肌肥大和肌肉撕裂。你会增加些瘦体重，但不如激发中枢神经反应获得的力量增长多。这对年长女性尤为关键，因为我们需要通过外部刺激来获得雌激素曾经支持的那种力量适应。

It's more of that hypertrophy and muscle tearing. You will gain some lean mass, but not as much strength as if you were to invoke that central nervous system response. And that becomes really critical as women get older, because we need to find that external response that's going to cause the same kind of strength and power adaptation that estrogen used to support.

有意思。关于运动还有很多可聊，但在继续之前——如果最糟情况是女性空腹摄入咖啡因后高强度训练（但如你所说，实际强度会打折扣），解决方案是什么？我猜需要补充些能量，嗯。

Interesting. Lots to talk about in terms of exercise, but before we move on, if the bad situation is a woman fasting, drinking caffeine, and training intensely, but as you told us, not as intensely as she would be able to otherwise. What's the solution? I imagine that solution involves ingesting some fuel. Mhmm.

能举个理想的训前餐例子吗？我们可以为杂食、纯素等不同饮食偏好做些调整。还有餐食与训练的最佳时间间隔？我猜这里应该有些灵活空间。

What is a good example of a, you know, a pretraining meal, if you will? And we could put some variation on that for people with different, you know, tendencies towards omnivore or vegan or whatever. Yeah. But what is the timing of that meal relative to training that works best? Or and and I'm assuming there's some flexibility there.

对。像我这种起床半小时内就出门运动的人，不可能吃完整的一餐...

Yeah. Mean, like, I'm the kind of person that gets up and is out the door within a half an hour to go do whatever I'm gonna do. So it's not like I'm gonna I've have a full

我听说过你这种人。我早上通常行动比较慢。

heard of people like you. Meaning I tend to move slowly in the morning.

我也希望如此，但以我目前的生活状态，这行不通。而且我属于那种直到上午11点才会真正有食欲的人。

I wish I could, but the way my life is, it doesn't work that way. But I'm also one of the people that never really has an appetite until 11:00.

好吧，看来我们在这方面很相似。那么你是如何协调这个问题的？

Okay, so we're similar in that way. Yeah. So how do you square that?

我晚上会做一杯双份浓缩咖啡，加入杏仁奶和一勺蛋白粉。杏仁奶是加糖的——通常我选无糖的，但为了补充碳水会选加糖款，蛋白粉则是为了蛋白质。因为如果我要进行海泳，就需要提前摄入碳水化合物和蛋白质。如果只是去健身房，可能就只在咖啡里加蛋白粉。没错，我是在摄入咖啡因，但同时也在为下丘脑补充热量，并增加循环氨基酸。

So I make a double espresso at night and I put some almond milk and a scoop of protein powder in there. So the almond milk is sweetened and usually it's unsweetened, but sweetened for the carb and then the protein powder for protein. Because if I'm going to go do an ocean swim, then I need some carbohydrate and protein on board. If I'm going to just go to the gym, then I'll probably just have the protein powder in the coffee. Yes, I'm caffeinating, but I'm also getting the calories for the hypothalamus and getting more circulating amino acids.

北卡罗来纳大学的艾比·史密斯·瑞安专门研究过碳水化合物、蛋白质与力量训练或有氧运动的关系，发现如果进行纯粹的力量训练，只需提前摄入约15克蛋白质就能让你进入状态——既确保体内有燃料，又能提升运动后耗氧量（EPOC），让静息代谢率保持升高，更有利于运动后恢复。如果进行长达一小时的心血管类训练，则需要额外补充30克碳水。这不算大量进食，也不是正餐。有些人训练前饿得慌，那完全可以吃正餐，只需预留半小时消化时间。

Abby Smith Ryan out of UNC did some specific work looking at carbohydrate, protein, strength or cardio, and found that if you're going to do a true strength training session, you only need around 15 grams of protein before you go to really help you get into the idea that yes, you have some fuel on board and also increases your post exercise oxygen consumption or your epoch, so your resting metabolism stays elevated, giving you a better chance for recovery post exercise as well. If you're going to do any kind of cardiovascular type work up to an hour, then you're adding 30 grams of carb to that. So it's not a lot of food, and it's not a full meal. Other people are like, I'm starving right before I go training. Then yes, you can have your meal, giving yourself about half an hour before.

但不需要我们讨论的那种正经餐食。只需足够提升血糖水平，刺激下丘脑意识到‘有营养进来了’。之后45分钟内再吃真正的早餐补充能量。

But it doesn't have to be major food that we're talking about. But that's just enough to bring blood sugar up and stimulate the hypothalamus to say, Yeah, there's some nutrition coming in. And then you have your real food afterwards. You have your breakfast afterwards within forty five minutes.

作为神经科学家，我觉得特别有趣的是——你谈到的运动前饮食至少部分（或许大部分）原理在于：摄入这些热量如何影响大脑，保护那些Kisspeptin神经元（我们稍后会详聊这个有趣的肽）。而不是简单说‘你要消耗X卡路里就需要摄入X卡路里’。

As a neuroscientist, I find it so interesting that at least some of what you're talking about with this pre workout meal, and perhaps most of it relates to how ingesting those calories impacts the brain, protects those Kispeptin neurons. We'll talk more about kisspeptin, very interesting peptide. As opposed to saying, okay, you need x number of calories because you're going to burn x number of calories.

我讨厌那种讨论方式。

I hate that conversation.

对吧？那完全是另一种思路。我们现在讨论的是神经层面的机制——如何生成运动强度，同时抑制皮质醇，让训练效果最大化而不让身体进入应急状态。

Right? Which is a very different conversation. Here, what we're talking about is the neural aspects of being able to generate intensity, also blunt cortisol, and get the most out of training without putting the body into kind of an emergency state.

没错。如果运动后长时间不进食，身体持续处于分解代谢状态，大脑就会判定处于低能量状态。最先流失的就是瘦体重。如果有人告诉女性‘你要空腹训练’或‘延迟进食’，那请问训练意义何在？因为最先牺牲的就是肌肉量。

Yeah. And the longer someone withholds food after exercise, and the greater they stay in that catabolic or breakdown state, the more the brain perceives it as being in a low energy state. So the first thing to go is lean mass. When you start telling a woman that if you're going to do fasted training and or you're going to delay food intake afterwards, why are you training? Because the first thing that goes is lean mass.

女性增肌本就极其困难。当你真正重视这点并告诉她们‘只需15克蛋白质就能有效保护瘦体重’时，这个简单的小改变往往让人尝试后惊呼效果惊人。在整合系统运作时，微小调整就能带来巨大改变。

It's really, really hard for women to put on lean mass. So once you start really nailing that and then saying, Look, you just need 15 grams of protein to really help and be able to conserve that lean mass. It's a small simple fix. People try it and they're like, oh my gosh, I feel amazing. So small little things when you're working with the whole system.

我感到疲惫，尤其是在圣诞节期间，当你翻阅所有杂志时，仿佛吃两块饼干就意味着你得在跑步机上走三十分钟。这两者根本不成正比。所以我讨厌卡路里的讨论，因为它完全不适用。

I get tired, especially around Christmas time when you're reading all the magazines, it's like two cookies means you have to walk for thirty minutes on the treadmill. It doesn't correlate like that at all. So that's why I was like, I hate the calorie conversation because it's just not applicable.

没错。而且它自带一种对卡路里计算的神经质倾向，很容易滑向饮食失调的领域。几年前我做了一期关于饮食失调的节目，在研究过程中了解到，患有饮食失调的人，无论男女，尤其是厌食症患者，会变成活体卡路里计算器。他们的眼睛和大脑不断评估食物的热量负荷，这显然极具侵入性。它还是所有精神疾病中致死率最高的。

Right. And it has its own kind of elements of being laced with neuroticism about calorie counting, and then that can drift easily into the realm of eating disorders. I did an episode about eating disorders some years ago, and as I was researching that episode, I learned that people with eating disorders, women and men, especially anorexia, become like calorie calculators. Their eyes and their brain just are constantly evaluating the caloric load of food, and it can be obviously very intrusive. It's also the most deadly of all the psychiatric conditions.

嗯...这与我们当下讨论的内容相去甚远，但每当谈及卡路里收支的话题时，都存在这种偏离的风险。当然，我们相信热力学定律和能量守恒。但我欣赏你描述的这种方式——让大脑进入保护身心的模式，使人能投入高强度训练并获得想要的适应效果，而不是让一切沦为‘我运动了多少？消耗了多少？’的计算机式计算。

So Mhmm. It's that's a long way from hopefully what we're talking about here, but but there's the opportunity for drift whenever talking about calorie counting in and out. We, of course, believe in the laws of thermodynamics and calories in, calories out. But I love what you're describing here as getting the brain in a mode that the brain and body are protected so that one can invest in that high intensity exercise and get the adaptations that one wants, but not send everything down this pathway of, you know, just becoming a computer of, you know, how much am I exercising? What did I burn?

我赚了多少？是的。

What did I earn? It's Yeah.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

确实疯狂。既然我们谈到训练相关的饮食问题，建议的训练后营养补充窗口期是多久？也就是说，比如进行一小时抗阻训练后，人们应该避免或确保摄入营养的时间范围是？

It's crazy. Yeah. As long as we're talking about food and food intake relative to training, what is the suggested post training window in which one should either avoid or make sure they get nutrition? Meaning, how long does one have after, let's say, a resistance training session of about an hour.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在我看来，如果人们投入抗阻训练，大多数人训练时长大约在一小时左右，上下浮动二十分钟？

Seems to me that's what most people are doing if they're investing in resistance training. Maybe plus or minus, what, twenty minutes?

对。

Yeah.

他们进行高强度组训练时，可能每组只剩一两次余力，甚至有几组会做到力竭。你建议女性训练后吃什么？

And they're hitting those high intensity sets where they have maybe just one or two repetitions in reserve, maybe going to failure on a few of those sets. What do you recommend women eat after they train?

因此我们知道，处于生育年龄的女性需要在四十五分钟内摄入约35克优质蛋白质，即富含亮氨酸的高质量蛋白质。而围绝经期及以后的女性则需要40至60克，因为随着年龄增长，我们对食物和运动的合成代谢反应会变得迟钝。观察食物的恢复窗口期时，性别差异确实存在——虽然普遍讨论认为不存在恢复窗口期，称其为过时的科学观点。但研究显示，女性新陈代谢回归基线（即血糖水平恢复稳定）的时间是六十分钟内，而男性则长达三小时。

So we know that women who are in their reproductive years need around 35 grams of good protein, high quality leucine oriented protein within forty five minutes. And we see that women who are perimenopausal onwards are forty to sixty grams, because we become more anabolically resistant to food and exercise as we get older. When we look at the recovery window for food, there are definitely sex differences, because we hear all the conversation of there's no recovery window, it's old science. But we look at the research of when women's metabolisms come back down to baseline, meaning that they have constant straight blood sugar levels versus men. Women it's within sixty minutes and for men it's up to three hours.

所以当我们看到'进食不存在时间窗口'的数据时，那其实是基于男性数据得出的结论。对女性而言，我们有个更紧迫的时间窗口来终止肌肉分解并启动修复机制。谈到蛋白质摄入时，关键不仅在于提升肌肉中的亮氨酸含量以启动修复过程，更重要的是传递信号——我们正处于合成代谢状态，而非持续分解代谢状态及其带来的连锁反应。

So when we're looking at the data that says there's no window per se for getting food in, it's based on male data. So when we're looking at women, we have this tighter window to stop that breakdown effect and start the reparation. So yeah, it's like when we're talking about the protein intake, it's really important not only to get that leucine content up in the muscle to start the reparation and repair, but also again to signal that, yeah, we're in a building state, we're not holding that catabolic state and increasing all the repercussions that come with it.

也就是说女性应该根据年龄，在训练后一小时内补充30克、40克甚至50克蛋白质。嗯。

So women should try and get 30 or as much as 40, maybe 50 grams of protein depending on their age. Mhmm. Post training within an hour of training.

没错。

Yep.

男性似乎有更长的窗口期，可以等待一小时、两小时甚至三小时再补充蛋白质。那么碳水化合物呢？

Men seem to have a longer window. Could wait an hour, two hours, maybe even three hours before ingesting protein. What about carbohydrate?

我们考察了混合情况，但对男性更为重要，因为他们的肝糖原和肌糖原消耗速度远快于女性。因此针对女性，我们建议在训练结束两小时内摄入每公斤体重约0.3克的碳水化合物。当讨论蛋白质时，人们常惊呼'哇，这么大的蛋白质剂量，怎么吃得下？'其实你可以参考我们如何搭配这些营养素——同时你也在摄入碳水化合物。

We look at mixed, but for men it's more important because they go through their liver and muscle glycogen so much faster than women. So when we look at women, we want to get around 0.3 grams per kilo of carbohydrate within two hours of finishing. So we look at protein and people are like, Woah, that's a big dose of protein. How do I get it all in? It's like, Yeah, well, you can look at how we mix all of these things and you're also getting carbohydrate in with that.

所以我常说训练后可以直接吃正餐。虽然蛋白补充剂有其适用场景，但摄入天然食物时，你同时获取了镁、钾、钠等人们认为易流失的矿物质，身体修复能力也会显著提升。

So that's why I say you can have your next meal after your training session. Yeah, there's a time and a place for protein supplementation, but if you're getting that real food in, then you're also getting your magnesium and your potassium and your sodium and all the things that people supposedly lose, and you're able to also repair a lot better.

如各位所知，我服用AG1已超十年。很高兴他们赞助本播客——需要说明的是，并非因赞助而服用，而是因我长期服用才促成合作。事实上自2012年起，我每日坚持服用1-2次AG1。当今营养学信息纷杂，但以下几点已成共识：

As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for more than ten years now. So I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast. To be clear, I don't take AG1 because they're a sponsor, rather they are a sponsor because I take AG1. In fact, I take AG1 once and often twice every single day, and I've done that since starting way back in 2012. There is so much conflicting information out there nowadays about what proper nutrition is, but here's what there seems to be a general consensus on.

无论你是杂食、肉食、素食或纯素者，公认原则是应主要摄取未加工/轻度加工食品。这样既能吃饱又不会过量，还能获取足量维生素、矿物质、益生菌等身心必需营养素。作为杂食者，我虽注重天然饮食，但仍每日服用AG1的原因在于：它确保我获取全部微量营养素，所含适应原还能助我应对压力。这本质上是种营养保险——补充而非替代健康饮食。通过早晚各服一次AG1，我满足了基础营养需求。与众多使用者一样，我在精力、消化、睡眠等方面都感受到显著改善。

Whether you're an omnivore, a carnivore, a vegetarian, or a vegan, I think it's generally agreed that you should get most of your food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources, which allows you to eat enough, but not overeat, get plenty of vitamins and minerals, probiotics, and micronutrients that we all need for physical and mental health. Now, I personally am an omnivore and I strive to get most of my food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources, but the reason I still take AG1 once and often twice every day is that it ensures I get all of those vitamins, minerals, probiotics, etcetera, but it also has adaptogens to help me cope with stress. It's basically a nutritional insurance policy meant to augment, not replace quality food. So by drinking a serving of AG1 in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening, I cover all of my foundational nutritional needs. And I like so many other people that take AG1 report feeling much better in a number of important ways, such as energy levels, digestion, sleep, and more.

多数补充剂针对单一功效，而AG1是支撑身心健康的基础营养方案。若想尝试，请访问drinkag1.com/huberman获取专属优惠：随单赠送5份旅行装及一年份维生素D3K2。重申一次：drinkag1.com/huberman。顺便提及，曾有人热议空腹训练更能燃烧脂肪。

So while many supplements out there are really directed towards obtaining one specific outcome, AG1 is foundational nutrition designed to support all aspects of well-being related to mental health and physical health. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. They'll give you five free travel packs with your order plus a year supply of vitamin d three k two. Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman. At some point, there was a lot of discussion about training fasted burns more body fat.

是的。我认为现在大多数人都接受事实并非如此，或许空腹训练时脂肪作为燃料的比例会增加，但总体而言，就体脂减少而言，空腹训练还是进食后训练并无差别。

Yeah. I think now most people accept that that's not the case, that perhaps the percentage of fat as fuel is increased when one trains fasted, but that overall, in terms of loss of body fat, it doesn't matter if you train fasted or you train fed.

正确。

Correct.

好的。我认为这点再怎么强调都不为过。像你这样的专家们。这并不意味着如果某人偏好空腹训练或肠胃里仅有少量食物时就不能这样做。对吧。

Okay. I think that can't be stated enough Right. Experts like you. That doesn't mean that if one prefers to train fasted or with a minimum of food in their gut that they can't do that. Right.

比如，我喜欢空腹训练，但我听到的建议是女性可能应该至少摄入一些高质量蛋白质，如果不愿吃固体食物，可以用蛋白粉的形式补充。

Like, I like to train fasted, but I what I'm hearing is that that women should probably ingest at least some protein, high quality protein, and maybe drink the protein in a protein shake form if they don't want to ingest solid food.

对。我认为让人们理解低能量状态基本概念及其对男女影响的最简单方式，就是观察内分泌功能障碍的临界点。男性这个临界点是每公斤去脂体重15卡路里，女性则是30卡。当我们审视基础热量需求与真正引发内分泌紊乱前的参数时，就能明白为何男性在空腹或低热量状态下表现更好。

Yeah. I think the easiest way for people to understand the basic idea of what low energy is and how this affects men and women is when we're looking at a tipping point for endocrine dysfunction. For men, we're seeing that tipping point at 15 calories per kilogram of fat free mass. For women, it's 30. So when we're looking at baseline calorie needs before you really get into that endocrine dysfunction, when you're looking at those parameters, you can see why men do better in a fasted state or a low calorie state.

但对女性而言，我们的摄入量——尤其是碳水化合物需求——要高得多，因为我们有更多生理功能依赖于Kispeptin的上调或下调（最好是上调）。所以当讨论基础热量需求时，15与30这个差异就很好解释了。当向人们说明时，他们就会恍然大悟：这是生物特性使然？这可以追溯至远古——多数部落中男性外出获取热量，女性留守，而低热量摄入不利于妊娠。

But for women, our intake and especially our carbohydrate needs are so much higher because we have so many other functions that are reliant on that Kispeptin upregulation or downregulation, preferably upregulation. So when we're just talking the basic calorie needs and what we're seeing, it's that dichotomy right there of 15 to 30. And when you start telling people that they're like, Oh, okay, I get it. Is that a biological aspect? Well, you could trace it all the way back where men went out to get the calories in most tribes and the women were home and it wasn't advantageous to be pregnant under low calorie intake.

这就是为何热量过低会导致功能紊乱。但这种现象也延续至今——我们现在看到的所有激素紊乱及其昼夜节律调节机制，都表明女性比男性需要更多热量。

That's why you have dysfunction when the calories are too low. But you can also feed forward to modern day now and you're seeing that all this perturbance of hormone and the way we regulate hormone across the circadian rhythm requires more calories for women than it does for men.

我认识一些男性几乎整天不进食，只在晚上吃一顿，然后早上训练。这对我来说难以想象，因为训练后一小时左右我就会饿。这让我想到「训练」的定义。我坚信每个人都该每周进行2-3次抗阻训练和2-3次有氧训练，这是理想状态。

I know some men that basically don't eat all day and then eat one meal in the evening and they'll train in the morning. That's inconceivable to me because within an hour or so of training, I'm hungry. Which brings to mind what we mean when we say training. I'm a big believer in people, everybody getting ideally two or three resistance training sessions in per week and two, maybe three cardiovascular training sessions per week. That would be ideal.

没错。有人或许能多做些，但若少于这个量，长期健康就可能出问题。不过多数人都能完成这个目标。我特别欣喜现在社会大力推动男女进行抗阻训练——我成长时可没这种氛围。

Yep. One could potentially do more, probably not a whole lot less before you run into long term health issues that you could offset. But I think most people can fit those in. And I'm very frankly delighted that nowadays, there's such a push for women and men to resistance train. That wasn't the case when I was growing up.

对我来说。

For me.

你知道吗，我记得第一次带我妹妹去健身房的时候，我觉得她是我们高中时期健身房里唯一的女性。

You know, I recall taking my sister to the gym for the first time, and I think she was the only woman in the gym when we were in high school

是啊。

Yeah.

除了少数几位女性健美运动员。她说，呃，我可不想变成那样。我就安慰她，别担心，你不会变成那样的。但现在你去健身房，女性在举重，男性也在举重。

Except for a few female bodybuilders. And she said, well, I don't wanna look like that. And I said, well, don't worry. You're not gonna look like that. But now, you go to a gym and women are lifting weights, men are lifting weights.

这很棒。

It's great.

太棒了。

It's terrific.

我见证了这种变化。我16岁时，一个朋友的哥哥是健美运动员，他带我们去健身房，就像你带你妹妹那样。我们俩当时就想，哦，我们要超越那些家伙。于是我们跟着他开始力量训练，不是为了成为健美运动员，但这成为了我整个运动生涯中最重要的事。以前在举重台上我是唯一的女性。

I've seen the evolution. I was 16, one of my friend's brothers was a bodybuilder, and he took us to the gym, kind of like what you did with your sister. So both of us were like, oh, we want to beat those guys. So we got into weight training with him not to be a bodybuilder, but it's been like the paramount throughout all of my athletic career. Used to be I'd be the only woman on the lifting platform.

现在你得排队等候，因为举重台上有太多女性了。我超爱这种变化，太棒了。

And now it's like you have to wait because there's so many women on the lifting platforms. I love it. It's great.

没错，这太赞了。就像我之前说的，我有过女性训练伙伴，她们表现得非常出色。

Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. As I mentioned before, I've had female training partners and they they kill it. Yeah.

有女性训练伙伴也很有趣，因为不仅能看到她们进步神速——这常常让她们自己都惊讶，你知道，很多女性以为需要外源性雄激素或者...（被打断）对。就像你指出的，女性快速增肌确实存在一些生理限制，但我发现力量提升可以非常非常——

They it's a lot of fun to have a female training partner also because not only is it cool to see the progress they can make really quickly, which surprises them often. You know, I think a lot of women think that, okay, it's going to require external androgens or it's going yep. You know? And and what you pointed out that there are some barriers to women putting on mass quickly. I think I've noticed that strength increases can come really Really

迅速，没错。

quickly, yeah.

为什么会这样？

Why is that?

这与中枢神经系统有关。从文化角度看，像我们这些45岁以上的人成长的环境——九十年代的超模都不展示肌肉线条，这类观念导致女性长期倾向于有氧运动。即便现在，如果你是女性新会员去健身房签约，工作人员还是会说‘太好了，这是我们所有的动感单车课程和拳击课’。

It's a central nervous system aspect. There's a lot of like if we look at the culture of how a lot of us grew up, and I'm saying us, like 45 plus, right? The women were all the ninety's supermodels don't show muscle, that kind of stuff, so always been gravitated to cardio. Even now if you go to a gym and you're a new member, you're signing up for a new member, and you're a woman, they'll say, Hey, great. Here's all of our spin classes and our box fit classes.

现在还这样？

They're still doing that?

没错。他们会把心血管训练器械推荐给女性，而男性进来就直接问‘你想加多少重量？举重台在这边，所有力量训练区都在后面’。

Yeah. And there's the cardiovascular machines. A guy comes in like, Alright, how much do you want to put on? Here are the lifting platforms. All the, the weight trainings at the back.

精品健身房开始有所改变，但整体现状依旧。所以女性刚开始力量训练时，她们从未经历过这种中枢神经系统压力。包括神经递质乙酰胆碱的释放——这些囊泡负责让神经刺激肌纤维——整个系统会迅速适应。训练越多，参与收缩的肌纤维越多，力量增长就会非常明显。

Starting to see a shift with boutique type gyms, but that's still the commonality there. So it's still that little bit of taboo. So when women start strength training, they haven't been exposed to that kind of central nervous system stress before. And the whole aspect of getting the nerve and the acetylcholine, which are little vesicles that hold the ability for the nerve to actually stimulate the muscle fiber, all that gets trained really quickly. So the more that you train it and the more muscle fibers that are recruited for contraction, you see an increase in strength really rapidly.

在此基础上缓慢增加肌肉量，因为女性增肌需要很长时间。因为力量训练的核心驱动在于中枢神经系统。所以当我们看到更高剂量、更大训练量时效果很好。虽然我们没有看到显著的肌肉肥大，但确实能看到力量的良好提升。

And slowly building on that for increased muscle bulk because it takes a long time for women to put bulk on. Because the driver for strength training is that central nervous system. So it's great when we see higher doses, more volume. We aren't seeing huge hypertrophy, we're just seeing really good increases in strength.

每当有人——无论男女——担心自己增肌太快时，我总是提醒他们：抗阻训练在所有运动类型中是独一无二的。由于训练期间肌肉的血流变化，也就是所谓的泵感。没错。你会获得一个短暂的窗口期，这个窗口能让你预览到——如果其他恢复环节都做对了——肌肉可能达到的围度。所以只要训练时肌肉的膨胀程度不会让你感到不适...

Whenever somebody, male or female, is concerned about growing too big too fast, I always remind them that resistance training is unique among different types of exercise. And that because of the blood flow to the muscle during the exercise session, the so called pump. Yeah. You get a window, a transient window, but a window nonetheless of what the hypertrophy could look like if you do everything else correctly in terms of recovery. So provided that the size of the muscle during the training session is not aversive to you Yeah.

那就没问题。

You're okay.

你做得很好。

You're good.

是的。这在...你知道的...训练中很特别。不像跑步时你会感觉自己变快了，实际上效果恰恰相反。

Yeah. Which is unique among Yeah. You know, training. It's not like when you go running, you get a sense of being much faster. You actually get the opposite effect.

你说得对。你能感受到那种灼烧感

You Right. You you feel the burn

是啊。

Yeah.

在你的肺部，以及触及极限时的痛苦。如果适应过程顺利，下次你就能突破那个界限。而通过抗阻训练，你能直观看到并切身感受到肌肉增长的可能性。

In your lungs and and the pain of of hitting the wall of your limits. And then, hopefully, if the adaptation takes place, then you can push past that next time. But with resistance training, you get a literally a physical picture and a somatic feeling for what that hypertrophy could look like.

没错。这就是为什么在健身比赛和健美比赛前，选手们会在后台做充血训练。

Yeah. That's why on your physique competitions and bodybuilding competitions, they're out the back pumping before they go on stage.

我们一直在讨论训练，但还没有明确说明你会建议新手或中级者采用怎样的抗阻训练和有氧训练计划框架。我知道时间有限无法深入细节，你在其他著作中写过相关内容，我们会在节目注释里推荐这些优质资源。不过你希望女性如何进行训练？或许可以按年龄段划分，因为这个问题反复出现。

So we've been talking about training, but we haven't really spelled out what you would suggest a novice, perhaps an intermediate resistance training, cardiovascular training program would look like in in broad terms. I realize we don't have time here to get into all the nitty gritty details. You've written about this elsewhere, and we'll refer people to those terrific resources in the show note captions. But what would you like to see women doing? And maybe we can break up the the age brackets because it sounds like this is something that is resurfacing again and again here.

比如30岁及以下女性，31到40岁，41到60岁，以及61岁以上。每周应该进行多少次抗阻训练？是全身训练吗？有氧训练的频率？能举些具体例子吗？

Women, let's say, 30 and younger, women 31 to, let's say, 40, and then let's say 41 to 60, and then maybe 61 and on. In terms of how many sessions of resistance training per week, is it whole body training? How many sessions of cardiovascular training? And what sorts of examples could you give?

好的。对于20到30岁群体，我通常会先让她们注重整体动作模式。和年长女性一样循序渐进——先学习如何正确运动，掌握复合动作，这样当她们每周进行3-4次抗阻训练时，就能保持良好动作质量。其实不需要花费太长时间。

Yeah. So if we're looking at that twenty to thirty year old, a lot of times I really try to get them to focus on the whole movement aspect first. We phase them in, same with older women. Phase them in, learn how to move, learn complex movements, so that when you are going in to do resistance training, preferably three to four times a week, you can look at moving well. And it doesn't have to be a long period of time.

如果采用力竭训练法（这对年轻人增强力量和适度增肌很有效），就需要在健身房多花些时间，约45到60分钟。每周四次训练的话，可以在某次训练后加入冲刺间歇训练来获得超高强度。或者最多安排两次分开进行的HIIT训练。如果是专项训练——比如我合作的很多耐力运动员会问'如何安排？'

If you're doing to failure, which works really well when you're younger to increase strength and a little bit of hypertrophy, you're going to have to spend a little bit more time in the gym. It might be forty five to sixty minutes. When we're looking at doing that four times a week, you can add in a sprint interval training at the end of one of those to get that super high intensity. Or you can look at putting in at the most two HIIT sessions on separate days. If you're training specifically for something, so if I work with a lot of endurance athletes still and they're like, Well, how do I fit it in?

这时我们就要考虑训练质量如何与专项结合。比如备战马拉松、铁人三项等耐力项目时，可以把高强度训练融入计划。所以理想情况下，年轻群体每周进行3-4次注重动作质量的抗阻训练，搭配两次高强度训练。进入30岁后，我们要更关注抗阻训练方式——不是简单做循环训练，而是专注复合动作、大重量训练，并采用周期化训练模式，以六周为阶段逐步进阶。

Okay, well we look at the quality and how that fits into your training. So if you're training for a marathon, you're training for a triathlon or other endurance stuff, you can take that high intensity work and put it into your training program. So ideally, look at three to four resistance training with really good movement when we're in the younger set with two high intensities. When we start getting into our thirty's, we start having an eye to how are we actually doing that resistance training. Instead of just going and doing a circuit, we're really focusing on let's do some compound movements, let's look at doing some heavier work, Let's look at how we are periodizing, so we're having six week blocks and we're building on those blocks.

因为我们需要打好基础，这样到40岁时才能进行爆发力训练。如果40多岁从未做过抗阻训练，就需要花2周到4个月学习正确动作模式——由于雌激素波动，40岁后软组织损伤和整体受伤风险更高。理想状态下，这个阶段每周至少进行3次复合动作抗阻训练，搭配1次冲刺间歇或2次冲刺间歇加1次HIIT训练。

Because we want that base foundation so when we get to be 40, we can actually go and do our power based training. If you're in your 40s, you've never done resistance training at all, then we take between two weeks to four months to really learn how to move well because there's a higher incidence of soft tissue injury and overall injury as we get into our 40s because of perturbations of estrogen. And ideally when we get there, we're looking at that around three, minimum three resistance training with compound movements, and either one sprint interval or two sprint intervals and one hit in a week.

提醒大家一下，复合动作、多关节运动如深蹲、硬拉、引体向上、划船、过头推举、卧推等，与孤立动作（仅单一关节运动）不同。对，对。对于你描述的所有年龄段人群，你是建议他们每周训练相同肌群三到四次，还是采用某种分化训练，比如上肢日、下肢日、休息日交替，或其他适合他们的安排？

And just to remind people, compound movements, multi joint movements, squats, dead lifts, chin ups, rows, overhead presses, bench presses, etcetera, as opposed to isolation movements where only one joint is is moving. Yeah. Yeah. And for everybody in all those age ranges that you describe, are you suggesting they train the same muscle groups three or four times per week or they do some sort of split where it's upper body, lower body, take a day off or upper body, take a day off, lower body, take a day off, whatever that what might work for them.

对，选择适合他们的方式。如果因生活忙碌追求健身房高效训练，可以采用分化训练。如果能安排1到1.5小时健身房时间，则可在充分休息前提下进行全身训练。年轻时的关键是要练至力竭。

Yeah. What works for them. If you're looking for short amount of time in the gym because of busy lives, then you can split it. If you're looking at, Okay, well, can allocate an hour to an hour and a half in the gym, then you can do total body with adequate rest. The key when you're younger is working to failure.

年长后的关键则是进行大重量训练。

The key when you're older is working heavy.

有意思。

Interesting.

是的。当我们讨论力竭训练时，目标是促进瘦体重增长与力量提升。而随着年龄增长，由于增肌困难，我们更需聚焦力量要素——这对长寿尤为重要。从中枢神经系统角度看，力量训练能增强本体感觉、延缓认知衰退。你们神经科学领域应该了解，像痴呆和阿尔茨海默症中存在性别差异。有些很有趣的研究表明，老年期进行力量爆发训练能促进神经生长模式和神经通路发展。

Yeah. So when we're looking at working to failure, we're trying to get more of that lean mass growth with strength. When we get older, because it's so difficult to put on lean mass, we really want to focus on the strength component because that becomes more important when we're talking about longevity. If you're looking at the strength component from a central nervous system standpoint, we see it feeds forward into better proprioception, attenuation of cognitive decline, and this is the other thing that you in neurosciences would understand, the sex differences in things like dementia and Alzheimer's. There's some really interesting research looking at strength training and that power based stuff when we're getting into our older ages because we get more neural growth patterns and more neural pathways.

甚至有文献强调老年人应注重单侧肢体训练，而非仅进行双侧同步运动。当然始终要均衡训练身体两侧...所以我理解的是：年轻女性应练至力竭，追求力量与肌肉肥大？

Even some interesting literature about emphasizing some unilateral movements as people get older, not just dual limb movements or dual limb simultaneous movements. You always want to train both sides of But your body, so if I understand correctly, younger women should train to failure, try and generate strength and hypertrophy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

随着年龄增长，则应更侧重力量训练，保留一定重复次数余量，但使用更大重量。

As women get older, they should emphasize more strength training, leave some repetitions in reserve, but train heavier.

没错。

Yes.

你说的非常有道理。因为我们知道随着年龄增长，神经系统会出现萎缩或至少神经肌肉连接减弱，包括大脑中控制脊髓到肌肉连接的上运动神经元。这个观点确实很有说服力。

It makes so much sense what you're saying. Yeah. Because what we know about the nervous system as we age is that there's some atrophy or at least some weakening of neuromuscular connections and the upper motor neurons in the brain that control the neuromuscular connections in the spinal cord out to the muscle. Yeah. There's something really sticky about this idea Yeah.

In terms of longevity that I don't think anyone else has ever No.

In terms of longevity that I don't think anyone else has ever No.

The thing about it is men age more in a linear fashion. Whereas women, we have a definitive point in our late forties, early fifties, where all of a sudden things go to shit. Where it's that perimenopausal state and I can't tell you how many emails and DMs I get in a day from women who are like, I'm 46 or I'm 47, I'm putting on body fat, I don't know what's going on, I can't sleep. And then we say, It's perimenopause. They're like, What is that?

The thing about it is men age more in a linear fashion. Whereas women, we have a definitive point in our late forties, early fifties, where all of a sudden things go to shit. Where it's that perimenopausal state and I can't tell you how many emails and DMs I get in a day from women who are like, I'm 46 or I'm 47, I'm putting on body fat, I don't know what's going on, I can't sleep. And then we say, It's perimenopause. They're like, What is that?

And so when we're looking at perimenopause, it is a huge change in the body because you're having less and less of your sex hormones circulating. More and more anovulatory cycles means no progesterone or very low progesterone. You're having a difference in the pulse of your estradiol to those flat line aspects. And because every system in the body is affected by it, this is why you see more soft tissue injuries. Two of the biggest things that women who are in their 40s are going to PTs about are frozen shoulder and plantar fascia.

And so when we're looking at perimenopause, it is a huge change in the body because you're having less and less of your sex hormones circulating. More and more anovulatory cycles means no progesterone or very low progesterone. You're having a difference in the pulse of your estradiol to those flat line aspects. And because every system in the body is affected by it, this is why you see more soft tissue injuries. Two of the biggest things that women who are in their 40s are going to PTs about are frozen shoulder and plantar fascia.

Those are two really indicative issues that are happening in perimenopause. So that whole section of mid-40s to early 50s is a definitive aging point where I really try to get women to get into the heavy lifting and get into the patterns of polarizing their training, not putting an emphasis on Zone two, just really looking at how am I polarizing, how am I affecting my central nervous system so that when they get into that one point in time of that perimenopause, their body is already conditioned for the stress that's coming. Whereas men, we see that kind of stuff happens in their late 50s, early 60s. So the soft tissue injuries, the change in body comp comes at a later time. So yes, looking at how we're scoping our strength training, definitely something to think about in a longevity factor.

Those are two really indicative issues that are happening in perimenopause. So that whole section of mid-40s to early 50s is a definitive aging point where I really try to get women to get into the heavy lifting and get into the patterns of polarizing their training, not putting an emphasis on Zone two, just really looking at how am I polarizing, how am I affecting my central nervous system so that when they get into that one point in time of that perimenopause, their body is already conditioned for the stress that's coming. Whereas men, we see that kind of stuff happens in their late 50s, early 60s. So the soft tissue injuries, the change in body comp comes at a later time. So yes, looking at how we're scoping our strength training, definitely something to think about in a longevity factor.

But for women, there's a better indication of the timing across the ages of when you should start implementing. For men, I think you have a better bandwidth of when you should start implementing.

But for women, there's a better indication of the timing across the ages of when you should start implementing. For men, I think you have a better bandwidth of when you should start implementing.

For women who are not on hormone replacement therapy, And we did a previous episode about perimenopause menopause and hormone replacement therapy, but if it comes up again and again today, that would be wonderful Yeah. Because these are important under discussed topics.

For women who are not on hormone replacement therapy, And we did a previous episode about perimenopause menopause and hormone replacement therapy, but if it comes up again and again today, that would be wonderful Yeah. Because these are important under discussed topics.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

For women that are not on hormone replacement therapy, who decide to train heavier, maybe do a bit more training volume, not trained to failure. They're making sure to not let their cortisol spike too much by making sure they have some pre workout nutrition, some post workout nutrition. Would they be wise to be very careful in how much cardiovascular exercise they add to that? Meaning, there seems to always be this risk of overtraining.

For women that are not on hormone replacement therapy, who decide to train heavier, maybe do a bit more training volume, not trained to failure. They're making sure to not let their cortisol spike too much by making sure they have some pre workout nutrition, some post workout nutrition. Would they be wise to be very careful in how much cardiovascular exercise they add to that? Meaning, there seems to always be this risk of overtraining.

Mhmm.

Mhmm.

And as you pointed out, for various reasons, cultural reasons, historical reasons around exercise, I my observation is that most women sort of, unless they know better, default to cardiovascular exercise as opposed to resistance training. So if a woman in her forties, late thirties to, let's say, 50, is doing two to four sessions of resistance training workouts per week, and they also really like cardio or they feel they want to or should do cardio, should they be careful about how much cardio they're doing? And is there a best form of cardio? Should they really emphasize the high intensity interval training? Should they avoid zone two?

And as you pointed out, for various reasons, cultural reasons, historical reasons around exercise, I my observation is that most women sort of, unless they know better, default to cardiovascular exercise as opposed to resistance training. So if a woman in her forties, late thirties to, let's say, 50, is doing two to four sessions of resistance training workouts per week, and they also really like cardio or they feel they want to or should do cardio, should they be careful about how much cardio they're doing? And is there a best form of cardio? Should they really emphasize the high intensity interval training? Should they avoid zone two?

我们或许还应该为不了解的人解释一下什么是第二区训练。

We should probably also divine for people what zone two is if they if they don't already know.

我向来以抨击橙理论（Orange Theory）和F45这类课程著称，因为它们专门针对那个年龄段的女性营销，这并不合适。因为那不是真正的高强度训练。当我们关注那些真正想优化身体成分和延长寿命的女性时，她们却不幸地选择了有氧运动，因为她们认为‘哦，这能帮助改变我的身体成分，帮助减脂’。实际上并不能。

So I am notorious for slamming things like Orange Theory and F45 because they market specifically to that age group of women, and it's not appropriate. Because it's not true high intensity work. When we're looking at women who are really trying to maximize body composition change and longevity, and unfortunately default to cardio because they think, Oh, that's going to help change my body composition. It's going to help me lose body fat. It doesn't.

像灵魂单车（Soul Cycle）这类也算吗？是的。好吧，我从没参加过这些。嗯。

Is this things like soul cycle as well? Yeah. Okay. I've never done any of these. Yeah.

但我想象那里有很多旋转、大量动作、大量出汗，以及很多所谓的‘卡路里消耗’重点。

But I imagine there's a lot of spinning, lot of moving, lot of sweating, and a lot of, quote unquote, calories burned emphasis.

确实如此。但这让女性完全处于中等强度区间——她们太习惯上完这类课程后感觉精疲力尽了。当你告诉她们‘实际上这种训练对你无效，因为它让你处于会提升皮质醇的强度状态，却又不足以引发我们期望的、能抑制皮质醇的运动后生长激素和睾酮反应’时，她们会震惊。所以这就是为什么会有‘40岁以上女性不该做高强度训练’的夸张说法。其实应该说，她们不该做中等强度训练。

Yes, there is. But it puts women squarely in moderate intensity where they're so used to leaving one of those classes feeling absolutely smashed that when you tell them, Actually, that training doesn't work for you because it's putting you in a state of intensity that drives cortisol up. But it's not a strong enough stress to invoke the post exercise growth hormone and testosterone responses that we want to dampen that cortisol. So this is why we have that hyperbole of women who are in their 40s plus shouldn't do high intensity work. It's like, well, actually, they shouldn't do moderate intensity.

他们需要避免那种情况。两极分化，绝对的。这正是我们想要的。我们需要真正的高强度训练，即一到四分钟达到80%或更高的强度。如果是进行冲刺间歇训练，那就是全力冲刺三十秒或更短时间。

They need to avoid that. Polarizing, absolutely. That's what we want. We want true high intensity work, which is one to four minutes of 80% or more. Or if you're doing sprint interval, it's full gas for thirty seconds or less.

每周进行几次这样的训练。不要每天都做，因为你需要足够的恢复时间才能真正达到那些强度，因为这些强度能带来运动后的荷尔蒙反应，从而降低皮质醇。当我们看到一些女性说，‘哦，我喜欢骑自行车出去好几个小时，喜欢上动感单车课’，我们会说，‘好吧，但我们需要关注重点。如果你追求长寿、身体成分改变、认知能力提升等，你必须将训练两极分化，这必须是重点。’

And you're doing that a couple of times a week. You're not doing it every day because you need to have enough recovery to hit those intensities truly because those are the intensities that are going to give you those post exercise hormonal responses to drop cortisol. When we're looking at women who are like, Oh, well, I love going out for hours and hours on my bike, and I love, you know, doing my spin classes. It's like, Okay, but we need to look at the big rock here. If you are looking for longevity and body composition change and cognition and all those things, you have to polarize your training, and that has to be the focus.

但说到心灵慰藉，我有着长期的耐力运动背景。现在我喜欢在周末长时间骑我的砾石自行车，这对我的年龄和我希望改善的各方面来说并不是最优选择。但从心理上来说，这很棒。所以当我们谈论长时间的运动时，第二区是那种低强度的、可以轻松交谈的运动，这对心理健康和亲近大自然有好处。但对于最佳健康和福祉来说，我们不想那样做。

But soul food, I come from a long background of endurance. I now love riding my gravel bike on the weekends for long periods of time, which is not optimal for me, my age, that kind of stuff, for all the things that I want to see improvements in. But mentally, it's great. So when we talk about going out for that long stuff, zone two is that low conversation and that's fine for mental health and being out in nature. But for optimal health and well-being, we don't want to do that.

我们希望将抗阻训练作为基础，并结合真正的高强度训练，以帮助改变身体成分、控制代谢、提高胰岛素敏感性、促进大脑健康，并降低皮质醇水平。

We want to look at resistance training as a bedrock and true high intensity work to help with body composition change, metabolic control, insulin sensitivity, brain health, and dropping that cortisol.

我有一些女性家庭成员因为喜欢走路而保持苗条身材。

I have family members who are women who are thin because they love to walk.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且他们就是走很多路。

And they just walk a ton.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们吃得又好又足量。但对抗阻训练却很抗拒。就算偶尔举重，通常也只是用很轻的哑铃做几下弯举、几个肱三头肌伸展，并没有真正投入高强度的训练。

And they eat well and enough. But they are resistant to resistance training. And if they do pick up a weight, it's usually some very light dumbbells, do a few curls, a couple tricep extensions, and aren't really leaning into the higher intensity work.

是啊。

Yeah.

我觉得这挺普遍的。据我观察，普遍不是因为无法激励他们做高强度训练，而是学习复杂的复合动作——比如如何正确深蹲，甚至如何正确腿举。没错。正确硬拉可能有点让人望而生畏，尤其是刚走进健身房时。男性也一样。

I think this is pretty common. And my observation is that it's common not because they couldn't be incentivized to do the higher intensity work, but that learning the complex compound movements, like how to squat properly or even leg press properly. Yep. Deadlift properly can be a bit overwhelming, especially when one walks into a gym. This is true for men too.

比如，所有这些器材，所有这些器械，所有这些健身的人，他们看起来都驾轻就熟。就像我走进一个高级厨房或交响乐团，看到一堆我不会演奏的乐器。

Like, all this stuff, all this equipment, all these bodies, and these people look like they know what they're doing. It's like if I were to go into an advanced, like, kitchen or or symphony, and, you know, there are all these instruments I don't know how to play.

确实。

Yeah.

那么对于真心想突破长寿障碍的人来说，最佳策略是什么？嗯。因为显然抗阻训练和合理营养是有效的。

So what's the best line of attack for somebody who really wants to overcome this longevity barrier? Mhmm. Because clearly resistance training, proper nutrition work.

没错。

Yeah.

而心血管锻炼的部分则更直观一些。走路时加快速度就是快走，再快些就是慢跑，更快则是跑步。

And the cardiovascular exercise piece is a little bit more intuitive. Walking, you do it faster, you're jogging, you do it faster, you're running.

对，没错。

Yeah. Yeah.

骑自行车、参加SoulCycle课程等等，从动作机制上来说更简单。虽然仍可能受伤，但确实更直接。在没有预算请私人教练的情况下，有没有办法让人学会这些动作？就像你说的，用长达四个月的时间循序渐进，让他们有信心自己不太可能受伤。

The bike, the SoulCycle class, etcetera. It's easier in terms of the mechanics. One can still get hurt, but it's just more straightforward. Is there a way that in the absence of a budget for a personal trainer Yeah. That somebody can learn how to do these movements And as you said, ease into them over the course of even up to four months in a way that they can be confident that they're unlikely to get hurt Yeah.

并真正建立起他们进行有效锻炼的能力，从而受益。

And really build up their capacity to do real work that can benefit them.

是的，这方面我很推崇科技手段。但如果保持最基础的方式，我看到有些家人仅用自重训练开始，或在背包里装罐头增加些阻力，让他们在自家舒适环境中练习弓步或深蹲。重点指导他们脚部位置、膝盖姿势等细节，让他们适应这类动作。我还喜欢凯利·斯塔雷特的灵活性训练方法，教他们如何通过灵活性练习发现动作卡点。

Yeah, this is where I love technology for one thing. But if we're staying really basic, I look at some of my family members and I've gotten them started with just body weight stuff or loading a backpack with cans to add a little bit of resistance so they feel comfortable in their own house and they might be doing lunges or squats. Just keying them up of where foot placement and knee and that kind of stuff. So they're getting used to that kind of movement. I love Kelly Starrett's stuff with mobility, so show them like here's how we do some of the mobility to find where the sticking points are.

然后你可以推荐现有的一些训练计划，比如海莉·哈彭斯为40岁以上女性设计的优质课程，布里和澳大利亚的桑尼·韦伯斯特也有相关课程。你可以发送训练视频，他会给予反馈指导。类似这样的项目还有很多。只要主动寻求，获得帮助的途径很多。私人教练对许多人来说确实是个门槛。

And then you can either direct them to some of the programs that are out there that like Hayley Happens has some really good ones for women who are 40, so does Brie and then Sonny Webster down in Australia. You can send in a video of what you're doing and he can critique you and tell you things to do. There are other programs like that too. So there's lots of ways of getting help if you seek it. The personal trainer is very much a stumbling block for a lot of people.

虽然我不太喜欢Planet Fitness，但我欣赏他们为想尝试抗阻训练的人提供了便利——新人可以直接使用后区的循环训练器械，从器械训练开始入门，这比学习复合动作更容易。突破入门障碍的方法很多，关键是要找到激励因素，促使人们愿意每天花时间步行、去健身房或在车库锻炼来增加瘦体重。

As much as I am not a fan of Planet Fitness, I am a fan of the fact that they've made it really easy for someone to walk in who's interested in resistance training and they can go to a circuit, one of the circuit things that they have at the back, and they can start resistance training on machines, which is another level up to learning compound movements. So there's lots of ways of breaking that barrier to entry. You just have to find the motivation factor of what's going to incentivize the person to give up their time walking every day and taking time to go to the gym or taking time to do garage based stuff that's going to improve their lean mass.

我非常推崇器械训练，尤其是配重片式器械。器械能塑造近乎完美或完全正确的动作轨迹。

I'm a big fan of machines, especially plate loaded machines. But machines just create the close to correct or correct arc of movement. Yeah. And that

特别是对你这样的体型。

so For your size.

没错，完全正确。而且要花时间调整座椅高度、器械上的各种插销位置，而不只是调节重量，以确保获得最佳动作幅度。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And to really spend the time adjusting the seat height, adjusting the various pins on the machine, not just the weight in order to to make sure that one gets the best range of motion.

我认为这是件小事，但其影响却很重要。人们只是随意坐上一台器械，尤其是当你与他人一起锻炼时，初学者会感到压力要快速行动，他们不会调整座椅高度。所以这对他们来说完全不对。其实只需花点时间，教人们如何调整器械就好。

I think this is something small, but that is significant in terms of its impact. People just plop down in a machine, especially if you're working in with somebody and feel especially beginners will feel pressured to move quickly and they won't adjust the seat height. And so it's just all wrong for them. All it takes is a little bit of time to, you know, and ask people how to adjust the machines.

我也喜欢在车库用壶铃或较轻的哑铃做动作，比如推力器或悬垂翻举之类的，来感受动量和运动，因为这对人们来说是另一个很好的学习曲线。就像我说的，可以根据个人对阻力训练的本能喜好来安排多种训练方式。

I'm also a fan of kettlebells in the garage or lighter dumbbells that you can do, like thrusters or hang cleans or something like that to get the momentum and movement feeling, because that's another good learning curve for people. So like I said, there's lots of ways that you can implement things based on someone's intuitive like or dislike of resistance training.

你提到了极化训练。如果我没理解错，这指的是女性每周进行三到四天高强度阻力训练，每次45到60或45到75分钟。

So you've mentioned polarized training. If I understand correctly, this would be a woman doing three or four days of high intensity resistance training for forty five to sixty or forty five to seventy five minutes per session.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后在另一个极端，可能只是大量步行或慢跑。对。所以你说的极化训练不同于其他那些让人大汗淋漓的训练形式。

And then at the opposite extreme, maybe just walking a lot or jogging a lot. Yeah. So there's that way you're talking about polarized training as opposed to these other forms of training where it's designed to get people sweating like crazy

嗯。

Mhmm.

长时间剧烈呼吸，但既没有达到诱发肌肉力量和肥大适应的程度，也没有真正充分挑战心血管系统以延长寿命。

Breathing hard for long periods of time, but neither putting them at the in the landscape of inducing muscle strength adaptations and hypertrophy adaptations nor really taxing the cardiovascular system enough to create an increase in longevity, for instance.

当我谈到极化时，我指的是高强度力量训练，这对中枢神经系统要求很高。然后从心血管角度做真正的高强度训练。步行更多是恢复性的。所以如果要长时间运动，强度必须非常非常低。如果想通过心血管训练达到大汗淋漓的效果，那就要做真正的冲刺间歇训练。

When I talk about polarizing, I look at the high intensity strength, like that's really hard on the central nervous system. And then we look from a cardiovascular standpoint of doing true high intensity work. So the walking is more of the recovery. So if you're going to go out and do something long, it has to be very, very easy. If you are looking at cardiovascular and you want that big sweat, then we are talking true sprint interval training.

我让很多女性做的是一组20分钟的下肢负重训练。然后她们会登上 assault bike 全力骑行30秒，根据需要恢复后再全力骑行30秒。大多数人以为能完成四五组，但两组后就完全力竭了，因为这训练强度极大。这就是我说的极化。

So what I have a lot of women do is a twenty minute lower body heavy set. And then they'll go on the assault bike and do as hard as they can for thirty seconds and then recover as much as they need to to go then do another thirty seconds as hard as they can. Most people go, Oh, I can do four or five of those. After two, they're completely guessed because it's that hard of work. And that's what I mean by polarizing.

我们追求的是：极低强度用于恢复，超高强度用于代谢和心血管改变。

You have very, very low intensity for recovery and super, super high intensity for metabolic and cardiovascular changes is what we're after.

我想稍作停顿告诉大家，Huberman Lab团队推出了一档由Andy Galpin博士主持的新播客。Andy是运动科学与人体表现领域的专家，长期在Huberman Lab播客中广受听众喜爱。这档名为《Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin》的新节目将深入探讨增肌力量训练、改善心血管健康、优化恢复与睡眠以提升表现等主题。

I'd like to take a quick break to let you know that the Huberman Lab team has launched a new podcast with host Doctor. Andy Galpin. Andy is an expert in exercise science and human performance, and has long been a fan favorite on the Huberman Lab Podcast. This new podcast is called Perform with Doctor. Andy Galpin, and it dives into topics such as how to build muscle and strength, how to improve your cardiovascular health, and how to optimize recovery and sleep for performance and much more.

Andy是位极其出色的教育者，也是人体表现领域真正的专家。我相信你们会非常喜欢他的新播客并从中获益良多。请立即在您收听播客的平台订阅支持。再次提醒，这档节目名为《Perform with Dr. Andy Galpin》。

Andy is an absolutely fantastic educator and true expert on all things human performance. I know you'll thoroughly enjoy his new podcast and learn a ton of useful knowledge from it. So please check it out and give it a subscribe wherever you're watching or listening to podcasts now. Again, the podcast is called Perform with Doctor. Andy Galpin.

现在我们来谈谈月经周期。是的。以及它如何从心理和生理层面影响训练——当然这两者是相互关联的，密不可分。比如，是否存在某个特定月经周期阶段，女性会明显感受到运动动力和/或恢复能力受到挑战？

Let's talk about the menstrual cycle. Yeah. And how that impacts training at the level of psychology and physiology, meaning and of course, the two are linked. They're inextricably linked. For instance, is there a particular phase of the menstrual cycle where a woman should expect that motivation and or recovery would be more challenging?

这正是当前研究的争议点。运动科学领域大量研究和元分析都显示月经周期对运动表现没有影响。但要注意这些研究对象都是月经正常的女性，样本量通常只有10人，运气好的话可能有12人。

So this is the sticky point of recent science. Because we see all these research studies and meta analyses that are coming out of the sports science literature saying that there is no effect of the menstrual cycle on anything. When you look at that population, it is specifically eumenoreic women, might have a subject pool of 10, if you're lucky, 12.

也就是指有规律月经周期的女性，医学上称为eumenoreic。

So this is women who have normal menstrual cycles, eumenoreic.

理论上存在排卵期。所以她们确实会经历明确的激素低谷期和高峰阶段。

Supposedly ovulating. So they have a definitive low hormone and high hormone phase.

这可能是因为这些研究都是在大学校园里以本科女生为对象进行的。

And this is probably because these studies are being done on university campuses with college undergraduate women.

没错，正是如此。

Yes, exactly. Which

通常这个群体年龄范围比较集中。

typically is in a given age range.

对。而且他们只考察单次运动表现。从心理学角度我们知道，除非出现严重经血过多等情况，女性在周期任何阶段都能完成训练。但如果我们采用更精细的研究方法，不仅从分子层面，还结合混合研究方法关注定性数据时，就需要女性自行记录周期并发现个体规律。因为确实存在某些时段你会状态极差，根本无法进行高强度训练。

Right. And they look at performance, meaning that one point in time. And we know that psychologically you can perform at any point in the menstrual cycle unless you have something like heavy menstrual bleeding. When we're looking at a higher touch and looking not only from a molecular aspect but also pulling in mixed methods and looking at the qualitative, we need women to track their own cycle and find their own patterns. Because we know that there are times where you feel like crap and you can't push intensity.

但对某位女性可能是第8天，对另一位则可能是第18天。从分子层面看，我们知道低激素阶段始于月经首日（即出血首日），直至排卵期（约在周期中期），此时身体对生理和心理压力的承受与适应能力更强。因此若考虑进行大重量训练、高强度运动或需要激励时，这段低激素期正是冲击个人最佳成绩或新速度的理想时机——因为你的免疫系统、肌肉群、核心体温等各方面都能有效应对这些压力。

But that might be on day eight for one woman, it might be day 18 for another. From a molecular standpoint, we know that the low hormone phase being day one is the first of bleeding, up through ovulation, which is midway through your cycle, you have a greater capacity for pulling in and accommodating stress, physical and mental stress. So if we're looking at doing heavier loads, we're looking at doing high intensity work, we're looking at motivation, then that low hormone phase is really optimal for trying to hit a PR or trying to hit a new speed because you can take on that stress and your immune system handles it, your muscles handle it, your core temperature, everything handles it.

所以对大多数女性来说，在月经前几周她们会感觉状态更佳——除了临近经期那几天？还是说情况正好相反？

So for most women in the weeks before their period, they're going to feel more robust except right up until the point of menstruation or the inverse?

是从出血首日到周期中期这段时间。明白了。她们会感觉

It is day one of bleeding up through mid cycle that Got it. They're gonna feel

没错。

Yep.

关键在于并非所有女性都会排卵。当我们观察普通人群时，需考虑生活方式压力和营养压力。已知多数女性每年会有4-5次无排卵周期。因此在所谓高激素阶段，我们无法断言你绝对处于该阶段。这就需要女性自行记录周期并了解自身规律。

The sticky point comes not every woman ovulates. And this is a thing when we're looking at general pop, we have lifestyle stress, we have nutrition stress. We know that women, for the most part, have four to five anovulatory cycles a year. So this is where when you're looking at that high hormone phase, we can't say you're definitively in the high hormone phase. So this is where we need women to track their own cycles and understand their own patterns.

因为在理想状态下，黄体期是变化最大的阶段——免疫系统会出现促炎反应，碳水化合物利用率下降，交感神经驱动增强。这些因素都不利于应对压力。

Because in an ideal world, we know that in the luteal phase, this is where we have the most change, where we have a pro inflammatory response from the immune system. We have inability to access carbohydrate as well. We have a higher sympathetic drive. So there's lots of things in there that aren't so fantastic for accommodating stress.

广义上说，黄体期伴随更高皮质醇水平和基础压力水平。女性在此期间是否应该通过加强营养来调节？比如增加复合碳水化合物摄入？我们知道某些复合碳水能抑制皮质醇反应。完全正确。

So broadly speaking, the luteal phase is associated with more cortisol, more kind of baseline levels of stress. Would it make sense for a woman to try and offset some of that with a bit more nutrition during that phase? A bit more perhaps complex carbohydrate? We know that some complex carbohydrate can blunt some of the cortisol response. Totally.

或许只需要在饮食上稍加注意。

Maybe just even a little bit more attention to eating.

确实如此。核心体温虽会上升，但黄体期的根本目标是组织构建。此时大量碳水化合物和氨基酸正被调动用于增厚子宫内膜。因此必须增加蛋白质和碳水化合物的摄入量。

Yeah, absolutely. Mean, core temperature goes up, but the whole goal of the luteal phase is to build tissue. So this is where we're seeing a lot of shuttling of carbohydrate and amino acids to go to build that endometrial lining. And that's the whole goal. So yes, you need to eat more protein, you need to eat more carbohydrate.

但核心问题仍是：你是否排卵了？如果不确定排卵情况又未记录自身规律，就需特别注意在下个月经周期前一周大幅增加碳水和蛋白质摄入。这能帮助你保持运动强度，平衡身体状态——尤其当你感觉状态良好却出现心率异常、力不从心时。提前增加碳水摄入就能突破这种瓶颈。由于个体是否排卵存在差异，目前还缺乏足够研究给出普适建议，必须回归个性化方案。

But again, the sticking point is did you ovulate or not? So if you aren't aware of if you ovulated or not, you're tracking your own patterns, then just be acutely aware that in about the week before your next period comes, you really need to be amping up carbohydrate and protein. Because that's going to help you hit intensities, it's going to kind of level that playing field, especially on days where you feel like you can really hit those intensities, you feel great, but then you go to do something and your heart rate's higher than it should be, you don't feel that you can hit those. If you're offsetting it with some increased carbohydrate beforehand, you're going to hit it. So again, it's really dialing it back down to the individual now because we don't have enough robust research to make generalized ideas because of the nuance of have you ovulated or not?

在黄体期，你的雌激素和孕酮比例是多少？当我们将其推广到一般人群时，最佳做法是追踪你的月经周期、睡眠状况和身体感受，发现自身规律，并根据这些规律调整训练计划。

What are your ratios of estrogen and progesterone in that luteal phase? So when we bring it back down to the general pop, it's like the best thing to do is to track your menstrual cycle over sleep, over how you're feeling, find your own patterns and dial in your training in your days according to what your pattern is.

女性在月经周期某个阶段应该以多大毅力克服心理甚至生理上的抗拒，来减少训练或暂停训练？

How hard should a woman push through the mental and maybe even physical resistance to train less or not train during a given phase of the cycle?

这取决于她的感受。我们不能依赖心率变异性等指标，因为自主神经系统会随孕酮变化而改变。虽然心率骤降能证明排卵发生，但无法反映身体实际承受力。我常说'十分钟法则'——如果你醒来感觉糟糕，既想锻炼又担心状态，

It depends on how she feels. What we can't rely on are things like heart rate variability, because we know that changes with the autonomic nervous system change with progesterone. It's a good indication that you've ovulated because your heart rate variability tanks, but it's not a good indication of what your body can do. If you wake up, I always say it's the ten minute rule. You wake up and you feel awful and you're like, I really want to do this workout but I don't know how it's going go.

就给自己十分钟。若十分钟后仍达不到训练强度或持续不适，就调整计划。降低强度，改为恢复性训练，避免过度消耗。人体应对压力的能力有限，若在高强度训练中耗尽精力，如何应对日常生活？长期强撑只会提升交感神经的基础兴奋度，让你陷入与训练、与生活的持续对抗。

Give yourself ten minutes. If after ten minutes you can't hit those intensities or you just feel horrible, change it. Drop it down, do something that's more recovery, do something that's not going to be so taxing because we do have a limited amount of that stress acumen of how much stress we can handle. So if you're going to try to exert it all in a high intensity workout, what do you have left over for the rest of the day? And then that compounds because if you're always fighting it, then you're going to increase this baseline sympathetic drive because you're fighting the training, you're fighting life.

所以请遵循十分钟法则。连续三天如此也没关系，这只是短暂阶段。很多女性内心总想着'我必须完成训练'，这种压力往往源于对外界目光的臆想。

So give yourself that ten minute rule. If it happens three days in a row, that's okay because it's a very short period of time. It's not going to last forever. A lot of women have this internal conversation of, I have to do this. And it's really based on some kind of external, they think everyone's watching them.

但本质上你无需强迫自己。当你允许自己放松，反而能实现更高效的训练、更好的恢复，以及更显著的进步。

But internally, you don't have to. If you give yourself permission, you end up training better, recovering better, and getting better gains.

反过来，如果女性感觉状态极佳，是否应该全力突破训练极限？

On the flip side, if a woman is feeling spectacularly good, should she just really push it as hard as she can?

或者

Or

关于月经周期激素波动与极佳状态的关系，剧烈训练是否会干扰周期？这其实是个古老传言——可能是谬论，我猜有人认为高强度抗阻训练对女性激素周期有害。虽然没证据支持，但偶尔会听到这种说法。你觉得这个谣言从何而来？

is there anything about the relationship between the hormone fluctuations of the menstrual cycle and feeling really, really great that training hard can somehow disrupt the cycle? And this is actually kind of the the old lore, probably myth, I would imagine that high intensity resistance training is somehow detrimental to female hormone cycles. I don't think there's any evidence for that, but I hear that from time to time. Yeah. Why do you think that myth came to be?

你认为它为何持续传播？如果确实不属实，我们该如何破除这个迷思？

Why do you think it propagates? And what can we do to extinguish it if in fact it's not true?

It's not true. We see it comes from misstep in food intake. And we also see that it's a cultural influence. If we think about how sports started, it started as a way for men to demonstrate how powerful and aggressive they are. And this is the original Olympics, right?

It's not true. We see it comes from misstep in food intake. And we also see that it's a cultural influence. If we think about how sports started, it started as a way for men to demonstrate how powerful and aggressive they are. And this is the original Olympics, right?

There were no women allowed. And as we feed forward into sport and how it became okay for women to be involved, at the high performance level, if a woman walks in and shows any fallibility, then she's immediately put on a lower stool. You can't play with the boys because you have a menstrual cycle. You're bleeding. You're a woman.

There were no women allowed. And as we feed forward into sport and how it became okay for women to be involved, at the high performance level, if a woman walks in and shows any fallibility, then she's immediately put on a lower stool. You can't play with the boys because you have a menstrual cycle. You're bleeding. You're a woman.

You're a delicate flower. So women would walk into that professional sports space and be excited if they were amenorrheic or didn't have periods. Or they trained hard enough and their period went away because then they were more like men and they could play with the boys. If you start bringing up menstrual cycle in professional sport, now as of the past about four or five years, it's okay to talk about it, which is 2020. So that myth of high intensity resistance training causing issues with the menstrual cycle, one, it's a cultural nuance for pushback against women being in that space.

You're a delicate flower. So women would walk into that professional sports space and be excited if they were amenorrheic or didn't have periods. Or they trained hard enough and their period went away because then they were more like men and they could play with the boys. If you start bringing up menstrual cycle in professional sport, now as of the past about four or five years, it's okay to talk about it, which is 2020. So that myth of high intensity resistance training causing issues with the menstrual cycle, one, it's a cultural nuance for pushback against women being in that space.

But then the reality is women weren't eating enough to accommodate for that stress, which then feeds forward to low energy availability, maybe relative energy deficiency in sport, perturbations in all of our menstrual cycle hormones. So, it's not the act of the high intensity resistance training. It's the act of not fueling appropriately for it, and then getting the okay to not have your period because, yeah, now you're in with your training hard enough, you've lost it, you're more like a man.

But then the reality is women weren't eating enough to accommodate for that stress, which then feeds forward to low energy availability, maybe relative energy deficiency in sport, perturbations in all of our menstrual cycle hormones. So, it's not the act of the high intensity resistance training. It's the act of not fueling appropriately for it, and then getting the okay to not have your period because, yeah, now you're in with your training hard enough, you've lost it, you're more like a man.

Wow. Very interesting history there. Is it true then that if a woman maintains either caloric balance with her basically eating enough to support her energy output or even a slight caloric surplus that it's unlikely that her periods will cease even if she's training very hard and very often.

Wow. Very interesting history there. Is it true then that if a woman maintains either caloric balance with her basically eating enough to support her energy output or even a slight caloric surplus that it's unlikely that her periods will cease even if she's training very hard and very often.

Correct.

Correct.

So it basically boils down to calories in, calories out.

So it basically boils down to calories in, calories out.

Fuel for the task at hand. Because some people want to have a slight calorie deficit even in high training. And if that deficit is at night away from training, maybe 150 to 200 calories, then it's going to help perpetuate body fat loss, not lean mass loss, and it's not going to interfere with recovery. It's the fueling in and around the stress, meaning the exercise stress, it's really important, but women have been so conditioned to not eat and not take up space, to be small, all of these sociocultural things that women are afraid to admit the fact that they want to eat and they should be eating. So this is nuance within the fitness community that we're really trying to change.

Fuel for the task at hand. Because some people want to have a slight calorie deficit even in high training. And if that deficit is at night away from training, maybe 150 to 200 calories, then it's going to help perpetuate body fat loss, not lean mass loss, and it's not going to interfere with recovery. It's the fueling in and around the stress, meaning the exercise stress, it's really important, but women have been so conditioned to not eat and not take up space, to be small, all of these sociocultural things that women are afraid to admit the fact that they want to eat and they should be eating. So this is nuance within the fitness community that we're really trying to change.

And you get the mindset around, you train hard, you eat well, and your body responds in kind.

And you get the mindset around, you train hard, you eat well, and your body responds in kind.

Appetite, body temperature, and hormones are very tightly linked.

Appetite, body temperature, and hormones are very tightly linked.

是的，确实如此。

Yes, they are.

这些因素紧密交织，我们无法在本次对话中逐一厘清。但正如你所描述的，女性迫切需要摄入充足且合适的燃料，并通过足够强度的训练来激发所需的适应性调整。我想，月经周期中食欲和体温的变化也会对此产生影响。也就是说，在月经周期的某些阶段，女性自然会减少摄入足够碳水化合物和蛋白质的意愿。是的，为了从训练中获得最大收益。

Far too tightly for us to disentangle all of those in a single conversation here. But as you're describing the urgent need for women to fuel enough with the proper fuels, to train hard enough to stimulate the correct adaptations that they need. I imagine that the shift in appetite and body temperature that occurs across the menstrual cycle is also going to play into this. Meaning, there will be phases of the menstrual cycle where women will be just naturally less motivated to eat enough carbohydrate, enough protein Yep. In order to get the most out of their training.

月经周期的哪些阶段需要女性特别注意确保摄入足够的营养？

What phases of the menstrual cycle are those so that women can pay particular attention to make sure that they're fueling enough?

是的。就在排卵前雌激素开始上升时，这种雌激素激增会显著抑制食欲。它还与我们的食欲激素相互作用，这也是我们食欲不佳的部分原因。这种效应在排卵后仍持续。雌激素水平会下降。

Yeah. As estrogen starts to come up right before ovulation, that estrogen surge really dampens appetite. It also has an interplay with our appetite hormones, is part of the reason why we don't have that great of an appetite. It holds after ovulation. Estrogen dips.

你会感到饥饿，然后雌激素又上升。人们常说会有一些渴望，这是由孕酮驱动的，因为你的身体需要更多卡路里。但与此同时，随着雌激素水平升高，你又不觉得饿。你有渴望但并不感到饥饿。

You get hungry, it comes up. And people are like, I have some cravings which are driven by progesterone because your body needs more calories. But at the same time, with the elevation of estrogen, you're not hungry. You have cravings but you're not hungry.

有意思。

Interesting.

是的。所以它试图断开这些联系。就像你的食欲，一旦进食自然会恢复。但渴望更多是心理层面的，嗯，我的身体需要更多，但我不太确定具体是什么。因此要让女性全面理解正在发生的事，归根结底还是要根据运动量合理补充能量。

Yeah. So it's trying to disconnect those. It's like your appetite is something that will come back of course once you eat. But cravings are more of that psychological capacity of, yeah, my body needs more, but I'm not quite sure what. So to get women to understand what's happening across the board, it's always coming back to let's fuel appropriately for the exercise.

即使你不饿，如果当时补充了适当能量，哪怕最终摄入较少，至少你阻止了分解代谢状态，这样下丘脑就不会出现那些紊乱。我最关注女性的是要真正照顾好大脑向身体其他部位发出的信号。如果我们体内有充足能量，尽管食欲出现波动——比如在高温下完成高强度训练后你也不会感到饥饿——但如果在热训后喝杯冷蛋白饮，就能立即满足需求，阻断身体需要分解物质的信号。

And even if you're not hungry, if you are fueling appropriately at that point in time, if you end up with less, at least you've stopped that breakdown state, that catabolic state, so we don't get those perturbations in the hypothalamus. That's my biggest concern for women, is really taking care of that signaling from the brain to the rest of the body. And if we have fuel on board, even though we have appetite perturbations and if you go do a really hard workout in the heat, you're not going to be hungry either. But if you're having a cold protein drink after that hot workout, you're taking care of that immediate need to shut down the signals that we need to break down things.

我们来聊聊网络讨论中诸多敏感话题之一：避孕。

Let's talk about one of the many third rails of discussions online, which is birth control.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们需要明确界定讨论的是哪种避孕方式，因为避孕方法种类繁多。

And we need to define exactly what type of birth control we're talking about because there are so many different forms.

是的。

Yes.

有宫内节育器，包括含铜宫内节育器，还有阴道环。我们重点讨论旨在抑制排卵的口服避孕药。

There are IUDs. There are the copper IUDs. There's the ring. There's the you know? Let's talk about oral contraceptives that are designed to prevent ovulation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

也就是避孕药。

So this is the pill.

对。

Yep.

为免混淆，我们暂时将讨论限定在这个范围内。请分享您对这些避孕药的看法，它们如何影响我们讨论的议题，或其他相关方面。

So we're being let's, for now, limit the conversation to that so that there isn't confusion. Share with us, if you will, your thoughts on these, how they impact any of the things that we're talking about, or anything else from that for that matter.

又要上历史课了吗？

We have another history lesson?

请讲。

Please.

好的。我最近刚给一些年轻运动员做过避孕主题的讲座——比如有人使用长效避孕针超过两年会出现骨密度流失。这时就会引出问题：口服避孕药是如何发展起来的？它会产生什么影响？这就要追溯其历史了。

All right. I just gave a talk at home to some young athletes on contraception because someone might be on the depot, and if they're on it for more than two years, they get bone mineral density loss. So then the question of, okay, well, how does the oral contraceptive pill come up? How does that affect things? It's like, well, let's look at the history of it.

最初，它源自斯坦福大学。资金来自麦考密克家族的凯瑟琳·麦考密克和女权活动家玛格丽特·辛格。但由于她们是女性，无法进入实验室，所以她们找了斯坦福的一位男性来研发避孕药。而他当时说，知道吗？我们需要设置一周的安慰剂，让女性感觉自己在经历出血。

Initially, it came from Stanford. It was funded by Katherine McCormick from McCormick family, and a feminist activist, Margaret Singer. But because they were women, they couldn't get in the lab, so they got a guy from Stanford to develop the pill. And he's like, You know what? We need to put in a placebo week so that women feel like they're having a bleed.

因此，如果我们观察三片活性药片和随后的一周糖丸设计，其初衷是让女性感觉能掌控自己的月经周期，同时仍会有出血。但这并非真正的月经出血，而是撤退性出血。这就让服用口服避孕药的人产生困惑——她们以为‘我来月经了’，但实际上并没有。

So if we're looking at the three active pills and then the one sugar pill week, it was by design to make women feel like they are having control over their menstrual cycle and they would still have a bleed. But it's not a true bleed, it's a withdrawal bleed. So this becomes the confusing point for people who are on an oral contraceptive pill. They're like, I get my period. It's like, No, you don't.

因为口服避孕药中激素的作用原理是通过抑制卵巢功能来阻止排卵。所以你的激素水平与自然周期的人完全不同。具体机制取决于你使用的避孕药类型——目前最常开具的是单相避孕药，意味着三周活性药片中的雌激素和孕激素剂量相同，接着是糖丸周或撤退周，然后重新开始循环。

Because the idea of the hormones that are in an oral contraceptive pill is to down regulate your ovarian function so that you don't ovulate. So you have a whole different hormone profile from someone who naturally cycles. So this depends on the type of oral contraceptive pill you're using. For the most part, monophasic is the one that's most prescribed. So that means the three weeks of the active pill is the same dose of estrogen and progesterone, and then you have your sugar pill week or your withdrawal week, and then you start again.

当我们考察口服避孕药对活跃女性群体的影响时，会发现炎症反应和氧化反应水平显著升高。从训练适应角度看，虽然尚未有相关研究，但我很有兴趣探索这如何影响身体适应机制。开始服用避孕药后，人体确实会形成新的生理基线，但我们尚不清楚这种变化如何具体影响适应过程。我们还研究了避孕药中的孕激素成分——目前共有四代孕激素产品：第一代剂量极高且风险因素众多，现已很少开具处方。

When we look at the repercussions of using oral contraceptive pill in active women, there's a higher amount of inflammatory responses and oxidative responses. So from a training standpoint, no one's done the study yet, but I would be interested in doing this, of looking at how that impacts adaptation. You do end up with a new baseline of this when you start taking the pill, but we're not really sure how that impacts adaptation. We also look at the progestin component of the oral contraceptive pill, because we have four generations of progesterone. First generation was a really high dose and has a lot of risk factors, not really prescribed that much.

第二代是目前最常用的处方选择，人们普遍使用的避孕药和宫内节育器都含有这种成分，其副作用最小。第三代和第四代孕激素中，第四代主要针对经前综合征（PMS）或经前烦躁障碍（PMDD）严重的女性群体，因为该孕激素会直接影响大脑中的多巴胺受体，从而改善显著的情绪问题。而第三代孕激素则具有非常强的雄激素特性。

Second generation is the most prescribed, And this is the one that people just take, it's in your IUD, it's in your OC, has the least amount of side effects. And then we have a third and a fourth generation. The fourth generation is primarily for women who have really bad PMS or PMDD, which is your premenstrual dysphoria disorder. So significant mood issues because that progestin has a direct effect on a lot of the dopamine receptors in the brain as well. The third generation is very androgenic.

我们在初步研究中发现，由于成分的累积效应，服用后第二周就能提升速度和力量。但针对口服避孕药，我们不能一概而论，因为存在低剂量和高剂量雌激素之分。30微克的剂量会增加肌肉肥大但不会增强力量，因为雌激素促进了卫星细胞的活性。这对我的爆发力运动员和奥运举重选手来说是不利的，因为他们会增加肌肉量却无法提升力量表现。因此我们不得不考虑调整她们的避孕方案或让她们停药。

So we see that in some preliminary research, that improves speed and power by the second week of intake because it's accumulated. So when we're looking directly at an oral contraceptive pill, we can't make generalizations because you have low dose, high dose estrogen. We see that a thirty microgram dose increases hypertrophy but not strength, because estrogen increases the satellite cell aspect. So for my power and Olympic athletes, Olympic lifting athletes, that's a detriment because they'll put on muscle mass but no strength. So we've had to look at changing their OC or getting them off.

对于出现突破性出血的女性，较高剂量的雌激素摄入确实有益。从运动表现角度整体评估其对女性的影响时，由于激素谱存在巨大个体差异，我们无法给出普适结论。我们只关注顶尖运动员的情况，因为细微变化可能决定成败。就普通人群而言，我们掌握的数据还远远不够。

For women who have breakthrough bleeding, that higher incidence of or that higher intake of estrogen is really beneficial. So when we look overall at how it impacts women from an athletic standpoint. It's so variable in the hormone profile that we can't make generalizations. We only look at the very high performance athletes and what's happening up there because that can make or break an athlete. So from the general touch point, we don't know enough.

比如2024年初有项研究显示，口服避孕药会导致杏仁核变化。成年人的这种变化是可逆的，但青春期女孩的大脑仍在发育，我们无法预知影响。可悲的是，有些医生开避孕药就像发糖果一样随意。

Like the beginning of this year, 2024, there was a study that came out looking at changes in the amygdala that happens with oral contraceptive use. It's reversible in adults. But for young girls, we don't know because their brain is developing. And unfortunately, physicians will pass out OCs as if it's candy.

OCs。

OCs.

口服避孕药。

Oral contraceptives.

口服避孕药。你还记得它对杏仁核的影响方向吗？对于那些不记得的人，杏仁核是双侧大脑结构，意味着大脑两侧各有一个，拉丁语中字面意思是杏仁，形状像杏仁，它是一个更大网络的一部分，与威胁检测相关。

Oral contraceptives. And do you recall what the direction of the effect was on the amygdala, For those that don't recall the amygdala bilateral brain structure, meaning one on each side of your brain, literally means almond in Latin, it's almond shaped, and it's part of a larger network associated with threat detection.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有时它被描述为大脑中恐惧的所在，但它也涉及许多其他事情。既有正价也有负价，但无论如何，它是威胁检测系统的一部分，与唤醒水平升高有关，这就是为什么它经常在恐惧、焦虑等背景下被讨论。

Sometimes it's described the locus of fear in the brain, but it's involved in a lot of other things too. Both positive valence and negative valence, but nonetheless, is part of the threat detection system, elevated levels of arousal, which is why it's often discussed in the context of fear, anxiety, etcetera. It

服用口服避孕药（OC）或避孕药的女性恐惧感增加，使她们更不愿意冒险。当她们停药后，她们会想，为什么我之前做不到？这就是为什么他们开始研究杏仁核。当我说我们在观察年轻女孩时，我们仍然不知道发生了什么。因为大脑结构正在发生变化，年轻女孩服用后是否可逆？

increased fear in women who are on the OC or a contraceptive pill, made them less willing to take chances. And when they went off it, they're like, Why couldn't I do that before? So that's why they started looking at the amygdala. And when I say we're looking at young girls, and again, we don't know what's happening. Is it reversible in young girls that are put on it or not because of the brain structure changes that are happening?

所以当我们谈论口服避孕药时，我希望人们理解它对身体有显著影响，不仅仅是生殖方面。我们对其他所有影响了解得还不够。所以我有些家长说，我女儿想服用口服避孕药。她月经不规律。她是个运动员。

So when we talk about an oral contraceptive pill, I want people to understand that it has a significant effect on the body, not just reproductive. We don't know enough about all the other effects. So I have parents who say, My daughter wants to go on the oral contraceptive pill. She's having irregular periods. She's an athlete.

我们希望能够控制它。但问题是，如果你的月经周期现在有问题，停药后问题依然存在。所以我们必须看看这里发生了什么。如果你想通过它来控制月经周期，为什么？因为我们知道，不服药时，你的最大摄氧量和其他无氧能力可以提高。

We want to be able to control it. And it's like, if there's an issue with your menstrual cycle now, it's still going to be there when you get off it. So we have to look and see what's going on here. If you're looking to get on it to control your menstrual cycle, why? Because we know that you can have an increase in your VO2 max and other anaerobic capacity when you're not on it.

所以当你不被这些激素抑制时，你的上限能力会更好。然后另一个话题是，哦，我的皮肤。其实有很好的皮肤科医生可以帮你解决这个问题。你不必服用口服避孕药。但不幸的是，全科医生并不了解所有这些。

So you have a better top end capacity when you're not being blunted by these hormones. And then the other conversation is, Oh, my skin. It's like, Well, they have really good dermatologists that can help you with that. You don't have to go on an oral contraceptive pill. But unfortunately, GPs don't understand all of that.

如果一个女孩来说，我月经不规律，经血过多，我想服用口服避孕药，医生就会直接开药。所以这仍然是一个需要深入讨论的话题。我把它归入与更年期激素治疗同一类别。因为没有足够的研究来满足所有人群的需求，我们看到这些巨大的摇摆变化。以前是每个人都服用口服避孕药，现在可能是不要。

And if a girl comes in and says, I'm having irregular cycles, heavy menstrual bleeding, I want to go on the OC, here you go. So it is a huge conversation to still be had. I put it in the same category as menopause hormone therapy. Because there isn't enough research to address all the population needs, and we see these big pendulum switches. So before it was like, everyone be on the OC, and now it's like, maybe not.

然后又是，没有人应该接受更年期激素治疗。每个人都应该接受。但我们需要找到一个中间点，更多地了解这些外源性激素发生了什么。

And then it was, no one be on menopause hormone therapy. Everyone should be on it. But we need to land in the middle and understand more of what's happening with these exogenous hormones.

是否有证据表明其他形式的女性避孕方法可能对我们今天讨论的这类问题有潜在影响？

Is there any evidence that other forms of female contraception can be, let's just say problematic for the types of things we're discussing today?

就像仓库里的那种植入物吗？

Like the implant in the depot?

或者宫内节育器，铜质宫内节育器。

Or IUD, copper IUD.

铜质宫内节育器和曼月乐（含孕激素的宫内节育器），这些是我的许多战术运动员会选择的。因为它不会对身体的适应能力、炎症反应、情绪等产生系统性影响。而且它是‘放置即忘’的，可以放置三到五年。如果你有严重的出血情况，它会显著减轻，因为宫内节育器的原理就是使子宫内膜变薄，然后通过自噬作用处理子宫内膜，这样就不一定会出血。

Copper IUD and the Mirena, or your progestin laced IUD, those are what a lot of my tactical athletes will use. Because it doesn't have a systemic effect on adaptation or inflammation, mood, any of those things. And it's a fit and forget. So you can put it in for up to three to five years. If you have a really heavy bleeding, it really dissipates because the whole idea of an IUD is to thin the endometrial lining, and so then you have autophagy that takes care of the endometrial lining, so you don't necessarily have a bleed.

铜质宫内节育器不同，因为在前三个周期你确实会有严重的出血，之后会逐渐减轻。

The copper IUD is different because you do have really heavy bleeding for the first three cycles, and then it attenuates.

在我们今天开始之前，你提到了一些非常有趣的先驱性研究，关于通过月经血本身来评估更大的生理甚至心理主题。现在可能是一个

Before we got started today, you mentioned some very interesting pioneering studies on evaluating menstrual blood itself as a window into some larger themes about what's going on physiologically, maybe even psychologically. Now might be a

很好的过渡。

A good segue.

简单提一下。我们之后可以再回到这个话题。但让我更直接地问一下，有哪些可以直接从月经血中测量的信息对女性有帮助。听起来新一代的家用测试可能会对她们很有启发和帮助。

To just touch into that. We can always return to it again later. But let me just ask it more directly. What are some things that can be measured directly from menstrual blood that are informative for women. And it sounds like there's a new generation of at home tests that might be interesting and informative for them to think about.

是的。如果你想想月经液体，大家都认为它是废弃物。但从内分泌的角度来看，它是一个非常好的指标。它能很好地反映子宫内膜的情况。所以如果你观察其中的所有细胞因子、蛋白质和组织，它是一个巨大的自然排放的指标，我们现在正在研究它来确定HPV，你是否感染了？

Yeah. Well, if you think about menstrual fluid, everyone thinks about it as a discard product. But it's a very good indicator of what's happening from an endocrine standpoint. It gives a really good indication of what's happening from an endometrial standpoint. So if you're looking at all the cytokines and the proteins and the tissue that comes from it, it's a huge indicator that's naturally discharged that we're now looking at for determining HPV, do you have it or not?

关于多囊卵巢综合征（PCOS）的蛋白质呢？我们真的能识别PCOS或子宫内膜异位症吗？

What about proteins for PCOS? Can we really identify PCOS or endometriosis?

我们稍微谈谈PCOS。现在大多数人应该都听说过它，多囊卵巢综合征，通常与雄激素水平升高有关。它变得越来越常见，或者可能是因为检测方法更好而被更多地发现。我不知道是哪一种。PCOS的患病率似乎非常高。

We talk about PCOS for a moment. Most people have heard of it by now, but polycystic ovarian syndrome, it's associated with typically elevated androgens. It's becoming more and more common or perhaps detected more based on better detection methods. I don't know which. Prevalence of PCOS seems to be very, very high.

确实如此，我认为这是两者共同作用的结果。我们还观察到一些人在停用口服避孕药后会出现反弹性的多囊卵巢综合征（PCOS）。这并不一定是真正的PCOS，因为此时你的卵巢正在排出长期受抑制的卵子。因此在超声检查下可能看起来像PCOS，但并不一定是真实病症。另一个原因是越来越多的女性开始增加饮食摄入，从而摆脱了低能量供应状态。

It does, and I think it's a combination of both. We also see some rebound PCOS that happens when someone gets off an oral contraceptive pill. It's not necessarily true PCOS because what's happening now, your ovaries are producing eggs that have been down regulated for so long. So under ultrasound, it might look like PCOS, but it's not necessarily a true indication. The other is more and more women are starting to eat more and so they're coming out of low energy availability.

如果摄入更多碳水化合物，最终会导致卵泡刺激增强，这也会表现为PCOS症状。所以从统计数据来看，真正的PCOS发病率确实很高，但那些没有伴随雄激素性改变的反弹现象是否属于PCOS，目前尚无定论。这对女性来说是个重大担忧，因为这预示着身体可能出现问题，甚至影响生育能力。我们在奥运级运动员中观察到极高的PCOS发病率，这与PCOS的高雄激素特性有关——更好的恢复能力、略高的基础睾酮水平。所以这确实也存在人群特异性。

If you have more carbohydrate, you end up with greater follicular stimulation, which also shows up as PCOS. So the true PCOS, yes, there is a high incidence from a reporting standpoint, but is it that rebound where it's not having all the androgenetic changes that's still kind of up in the air at the moment? But it is a big concern for women because it is an indication that something's going on and they might have some fertility issues. We see a really high incidence of PCOS in Olympic level athletes because of the higher androgenic aspect of PCOS, so better recovery time, a little bit higher baseline testosterone. So yeah, it's a population specificity as well.

在80、90年代，神经行为内分泌学领域曾非常热衷于研究某些活动可以改变激素模式甚至心理状态，这些研究最初基于动物实验，后来扩展到人类。表面上看这很合理，但有没有证据表明——比如高强度训练或竞技场景会提升雄激素水平？这方面在男性中研究很多，但我想知道现在是否也有关于女性的研究。我是说，确实存在这类研究——比如观察证券交易所人员的压力波动与睾酮水平变化，虽然我不确定这些研究质量如何。

In the 80s and 90s, there was a lot of excitement in the kind of neurobehavioral endocrinology fields, largely based on animal literature, but then expanding into human literature that certain forms of activities could change hormone patterns and maybe even psychology. And that makes sense But on the surface of is there evidence that if somebody engages in, say, high intensity training or competitive scenarios, this has been explored a lot in men, but I'm wondering if it's also been explored now in women, that androgens go up. You know? I mean, there's been these studies. I don't know how good they are of, you know, people on the stock exchange, you know, watching their stress fluctuations, measuring testosterone.

我想大多数这类研究都是在男性中进行的。嗯。但其他竞争场景的研究显示，外源性睾酮甚至能增加男性的利他行为——比如在慈善活动中竞争捐款金额时。但如果把场景换成目标不那么友善的情况...是的，那么外源性睾酮就会驱动更传统的雄性竞争行为。

I think most of those studies were done in men. Mhmm. But other competitive scenarios, even showing, for instance, that exogenous testosterone can increase altruism in men if men are competing for who's, like, donating the most money at a philanthropic event. But you put them in a different scenario where it's far less benevolent in Yeah. In goal, and then they'll exogenous testosterone drives competitiveness towards things that are more traditionally thought of as male male competition.

换句话说，这完全取决于情境。是的。关于女性运动员雄激素或雌激素与运动关系的研究中，有什么特别值得注意的发现吗？

In other words, it's all context dependent. Yeah. Is there anything that kind of springs to mind of interesting studies as it relates to androgens or estrogens in women athletes and as it relates to exercise?

目前还没有针对女性的专项研究。但我们确实观察到，在压力状态下皮质醇会升高，如果你的身体能够有效应对这种压力，那么女性确实会获得睾酮水平的提升。这在战术运动员的夜间任务轮班中很常见。同时随着高强度训练周期接近尾声，由于黄体生成素脉冲开始下调，循环雌激素水平也会有所降低。

They haven't done any specific studies like that in women. We do see that under stress, the cortisol increases, and if you have an adequate response to it and your body can overcome it, then yes, you get a boost in testosterone for women. We see this in a lot of the night mission shift changes in tactical athletes. There is also, I guess, a lessening of circulating estrogen, so the pulse changes when we start getting to the end of a really strong training block because we're starting to have a little bit of a down regulation of our luteinizing hormone pulse

和

and

雌激素。但这种波动不应严重到导致月经周期紊乱。我们建议人们关注雌激素与孕酮的比例，如果即将进入重大训练周期，还要跟踪黄体生成素水平。所以我们通常观察季前赛、赛季中和赛季末的数据。对于闭经风险较高的人群，我们会通过这种方式持续监测。

estrogen. But it shouldn't be severe enough to cause menstrual cycle dysfunction. What we want people to do is look at the ratio of their estrogenprogesterone and keeping track of luteinizing hormone if they're at that point where they are going to have a really big training block. So we look at pre season, during season, end of season. And people who might be at a higher risk factor for becoming amenorrhea, then we keep track that way.

因为是压力因素导致了这种下调，而非永久性改变。

Because it is the stress component that can down regulate, not actually causing a permanent change.

既然谈到月经问题，我们或许应该讨论铁储备和补铁。考虑到女性经期会流失铁元素，她们需要额外补铁吗？

As we talk about menstruation, we should probably talk about iron stores and iron. Do women need to supplement iron, given that they lose iron during menstruation?

这很有趣，因为根据你来自世界不同地区，铁调素的水平会有所变化。它在炎症期间会升高，而在铁流失时会降低。因此我们看到月经周期内有显著波动。所以我告诉女性，如果你担心铁蛋白水平低，建议从月经第一天开始隔日补充铁剂，持续十天，这样能最大化身体吸收效率。之后虽然继续隔日补充，但排卵后铁调素水平上升，吸收率会降低。

It's interesting because we have a change in hepcidin, depending on which part of the world you come from. Because it is increased under times of inflammation and decreased under times of iron loss. So we see a significant change across the menstrual cycle. So I tell women, if you are concerned with low ferritin, then we want you to take an iron supplement every other day, starting at the first day of your bleed for ten days because that's going to really allow your body to absorb it and stay on top of it. After that, every other day, yeah, but you're not going to be absorbing as much of it because hepcidin starts to come up after ovulation.

再次强调，此时身体处于促炎反应状态，炎症水平更高。所有女性都需要补铁吗？不是。因为疲劳未必仅与缺铁相关，女性疲劳还存在诸多其他原因。

Again, you have a pro inflammatory response, so you have greater inflammation. Do women blanket need to supplement? No. Because we see fatigue isn't necessarily just iron related. There's so many other reasons why women are fatigued.

问题在于铁蛋白的基础标准值。对于活跃女性，如果检测显示铁蛋白20-25，医生会说是正常的。但我们更希望看到50左右的数值。所以如果你处于正常值下限，补充铁剂能帮你提升到50左右，从而观察是否有所改善。

The one problem is the baseline levels for like ferritin. For active women, if you go in and you have a ferritin level of 20 to 25, they're going to say it's normal. But we'd rather see you up around 50. So if you are in that low end of normal, then supplementing will help you get up into that 50 and see if it makes a difference.

如果女性要进行睾酮、雌激素、血脂、代谢因子等血液检测，且经济条件限制她只能在周期内某个时间点做一次检测（比如每半年或每年固定周期时段），是否有最佳检测时机？

If a woman is going to get a blood test to evaluate testosterone, estrogen, lipids, metabolic factors, etcetera, and she can only afford to do that at one point during her cycle and compare at various times, maybe every six months or once a year even at that specific time of her cycle. Is there a best time in cycle to do that blood test?

如果只能选一个时间点，我会建议下次月经前5-7天，即黄体中期。此时能准确反映雌激素和孕酮峰值。睾酮波动较小，也能反映基础水平。由于此时炎症反应较强，任何异常升高的炎症指标都更容易被发现。

If I'm limited to say that, then I would say five to seven days before her next period starts. So mid luteal. Because then you can get a good indication of estrogen progesterone peak. Testosterone doesn't fluctuate as much as those two, so you're going get a good idea of what baseline testosterone is. And we know that there's a greater inflammatory response, so anything that's outside of the norm of that upper elevation of inflammation, you're going to be able to pick out.

所以确实，如果只能做一次检测，这个时间点最理想。

So yeah, I would say if you could only do it at one point in time, that would be the time to do it.

如果她能在月经周期不同阶段增加第二次检测，你会建议安排在什么时候？

And if she can add a second blood test at a different phase of the menstrual cycle, where would you place that second test?

月经周期第二天，即出血第二天。这样可以精准掌握基础雌激素的真实水平。

Day two of the menstrual cycle. Second day of bleeding to get a really good indication of what your true estrogen level is at baseline.

如果在这两个时间点检测激素水平，你认为能获取75%以上的关键数据吗？

And if she measures her hormones at those two times within the cycle, do you think that's sufficient to get 75% plus of the relevant data?

当然。完全足够。

Yeah. Definitely. Terrific.

咖啡因。

Caffeine.

是的。

Yes.

在过去，是的。意思是我小时候，其实也不久前。

In the old days Yeah. Meaning when I was a kid and not long ago.

对，十年前。

Yeah. Ten years ago.

三周前。

Three weeks ago.

没错。

Yeah.

我们常听到关于咖啡因的疯狂说法。比如它会从骨骼中抽走钙质。你知道的，这类传言。我做过一整期关于咖啡因的节目。我是咖啡因的忠实拥趸，但我也提醒人们，如果他们有焦虑症或正经历特别有压力的生活事件，咖啡因可能会增强自主神经系统中交感神经的活跃度。

We would hear these crazy statements about caffeine. It pulls calcium out of the bones. It's know, you'd hear this stuff. I did a whole episode on caffeine. I'm a big fan of caffeine, but I do warn people that if they suffer from anxiety or they're going through a particularly stressful life event, it can raise the activity of the sympathetic arm of the autonomic nervous system.

你会感到更紧张。更容易恐慌。对。当你摄入咖啡因时。但很多人热爱咖啡因。我认为全球90%的成年人每天都会摄入某种形式的咖啡因。

You'll feel more nervous. You're more prone to panic Yeah. When you're drinking caffeine. But many people love caffeine. I think ninety percent of the adult population of the world ingest some form of caffeine every single day.

我就属于那90%。

I'm in that ninety percent.

是啊。同理，这使得它成为全球消费最广泛的药物。咖啡因对女性安全吗？根据你刚才说的，我猜答案是肯定的。但是否存在某些特殊情况，女性需要谨慎控制咖啡因摄入量，与这个焦虑问题无关的情况？

Yeah. Likewise, making it the most consumed drug worldwide. Is caffeine safe for women? I suspect based on what you just said that the answer will be yes. But are there case conditions where women should be cautious about their intake of caffeine independent of this anxiety thing?

我是说，人们摄入的咖啡因量最好不要超过心理承受范围。无论男女老少，无一例外。

I mean, people probably shouldn't drink more caffeine than they can tolerate psychologically. No one. Male, female, young or old.

这更多是基因因素而非性别因素。男女都可能属于咖啡因快代谢型、慢代谢型或不受影响型，这才是关键差异。我们发现女性在围绝经期会对咖啡因引起的血糖波动更敏感。她们习惯早上喝咖啡配点心，结果运动中途出现低血糖，因为胰岛素敏感性和反应发生了变化，血糖调控机制也在改变，而咖啡因会加剧这种状况。

It's more of a genetic factor than it is a sex factor. I mean, both men and women will be fast metabolizers, slow metabolizers, or not have an effect. That becomes the bigger rock of them. What we do find is in that perimenopausal state, women will become more sensitive to the blood sugar fluctuations that happen with caffeine. So they're used to having coffee in the morning with something, then halfway through their workout they become a little bit hypoglycemic because there's changes in insulin sensitivity, insulin responses, So there's changes also in blood sugar control, and caffeine can exacerbate that.

所以如果你总说'我健身前必喝双份浓缩咖啡'，然后运动中段出现严重低血糖、头晕目眩不知所措...

So if you are someone who's like, Oh, I always have a double espresso before I go workout. And then halfway through, I'm really hypoglycemic. I'm really dizzy and lightheaded. I don't know what to do.

还会恶心反胃？没错。

Feel sick or nauseous? Yeah.

对。记得搭配食物一起吃。

Yeah. Eat some food. Eat some food with it.

那在运动过程中小口补充咖啡因呢？比如组间休息时啜饮咖啡，能缓解这种情况吗？

What about sipping caffeine through the workout? You know, taking that coffee in and just having a sip between sets. Can that offset some of that?

我觉得没用。

I don't think so.

好吧。我常听说有人健身前喝咖啡因，中途就感觉不适。

Okay. I hear a lot that people who drink caffeine before a workout, midway through, they're like, I don't feel good.

对，因为他们空腹。

Yeah. Because they don't eat.

对我来说那反而会刺激对更多咖啡因的渴望，甚至...恕我直言，半片尼古丁口香糖（我实验过但被劝阻了）。不仅极易成瘾，作为强效血管收缩剂，皮肤科医生警告它对皮肤伤害极大——即便你不通过吸烟、电子烟、嚼烟或鼻烟摄入尼古丁。现在流行把尼古丁当作兴奋剂、认知增强剂和表现增强剂，但人们至少该知道它对皮肤的负面影响。

That for me, that just stimulates the desire for more caffeine, but or even, dare I say, half piece of nicotine gum, which I experimented with, but I was told, and this is why I'm not going to continue to do it. Not only is it very habit forming, it actually is such a vasoconstrictor that I was told by a dermatologist that it's terrible for skin, even if you're not getting your nicotine by smoking, vaping, dipping, or snuffing. Okay. This this big trend now toward ingesting nicotine as a stimulant and cognitive enhancer and performance enhancer, I think people should at least be aware of the negative effects on skin. Never