必备知识：管理压力与建立韧性 | 艾丽莎·埃佩尔博士

欢迎收听《Huberman Lab 精华版》，在这里我们会重温过去的节目，为大家带来最有效、最实用的基于科学的心理健康、身体健康和表现提升工具。

Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

接下来是我与艾丽莎·埃佩尔博士的对话。

And now for my discussion with Dr. Elissa Epel.

埃佩尔博士，欢迎你。

Dr. Epel, welcome.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常高兴你能来。

So great to have you here.

我想先请你简单介绍一下压力的不同形式。

I'd love to just kick off by you explaining a little bit about the different forms of stress.

我们经常听到压力这个词。

We hear stress.

压力是坏事，压力会害死人，没人喜欢感到压力，等等。

Stress is bad, stress can kill us, no one likes to feel stressed, et cetera.

但正如你我都知道的，这并不是全部。

But as you and I both know, that's not the entire picture.

所以我想请你给我们讲讲，压力到底是什么，不是什么，它在哪些情况下会带来问题，又在哪些情况下甚至可能有益。

So I'd love for you to just educate us a bit on what stress is and what it isn't, where it can be problematic, and where perhaps it can even be beneficial.

作为研究压力的科学家，这个词我经常用，但它必须被拆开来看，因为它有很多不同的维度和含义。

So as a stress scientist, it is a word I use a lot, but it has to be broken down because it has so many different kind of dimensions and meanings.

所以有好的压力和坏的压力。

So there's good and bad stress.

有急性的压力和慢性的压力。

There's acute and chronic stress.

从技术上讲，它就是指我们感到不堪重负的时候，觉得要求超出了我们所能承受的资源。

And technically, it just means any time we feel overwhelmed, that we feel like the demands are too much for our resources.

这是一种比较技术性的说法。

So that's kind of a very technical way to put it.

但实际上，生活中很大一部分就是面对挑战，我们永远不可能摆脱生活中各种压力情境。

But really, so much of life is about meeting challenges, and we're never going to get rid of different stressful situations in life.

如果说有什么变化，那就是压力反而在增加。

If anything, they are increasing.

所以关键不在于压力源本身，也不在于我们遇到了什么事，而在于我们如何应对，也就是应激反应。

And so it really comes down to not the stressors or what happens to us, but really how we respond, the stress response.

当事情发生时，我们产生应激反应，然后恢复过来，这其实是很美好的。

So when something happens, we mount a stress response, and we recover, and that's beautiful.

不会造成任何伤害。

No harm done.

我们需要这种反应，这也是为什么我们还能活着，靠的就是这种生存反应。

We need that, and that's why we're here, still alive, is that survival response.

现在的问题在于，我们总在脑子里不断回想，用我们的想法让它持续存在。

It's a problem these days of just we keep it alive in our head, we keep it alive with our thoughts.

我们的想法是最常见的压力来源。

Our thoughts are the most common form of stress.

据你所知，处理过度思考和反复纠结压力话题的最佳方法是什么？或者有哪些最好的方法？

What, to your knowledge, is the best way, or what are the best ways for us to manage overthinking and ruminating on stressful topics?

我们是应该通过理性分析或理解压力的根源来处理它们，还是应该试着把注意力转移开？

Should we work with them in the sense that we try and rationalize or understand the basis of the stress, or should we try and divert our thinking away?

我喜欢把它们分成三类。

I like to bin it in three categories.

首先，我们得对自己的思维运作方式有所觉察，否则我们就会以为自己的想法是真实的，以为反复琢磨和解决问题是有帮助的。

So one is we-- Well, I'll just say, first of all, we have to have some awareness of how our mind works, or we're just subject to thinking our thoughts are real, thinking that it's helpful to keep ruminating and problem-solving.

因为我们的倾向是，一旦觉得有威胁或风险，就会去解决问题。

Because that's our tendency, is to go toward whatever we think there's threat or risk, and to problem solve that.

但你可能会整天困在这种威胁模式或“红色大脑”状态里，那真是太可惜了。

But you could just be stuck there all day in this kind of threat mode or red mind state, and that's just a shame.

我们不需要一直开启那种压力反应。

We don't need to turn on that stress response all the time.

但这就是我们整个社会的现状。

But that's where we are as a society.

我们已经习惯了城市和现代生活带来的日常压力，以至于都没察觉到它的存在。

We're so used to feeling daily stress from our urban and modern life that we don't notice it.

我们早就习以为常了，所以整天都紧绷着双手过日子。

We're just used to it, and so we're going through the day with kind of clenched hands.

听众朋友们，现在就可以做个自我检查，感受一下身体里是不是正积压着压力。

And for listeners, just even just taking a check-in now and noticing how you might be holding stress in your body.

这是一个很重要的信号。

That's a huge clue.

身体是积累紧张感的主要部位。

It's a huge place where we accumulate tension.

所以，我们可能没意识到自己压力大，但手却一直紧握着。

So we might not be aware that we're stressed, but we're clenching our hands.

回到过度思考这个话题，当人们就是放不下那个压力源时，处理过度思考或反复纠结最有效的方法是什么？

So going back to this notion of overthinking, what are the tools that are most efficient for dealing with overthinking or ruminating when people just can't seem to let go of the thing that's the stressor?

不是指身体上的压力，而是指引发压力的那件事。

Thinking about not the stress in their body, but the thing that caused the stress.

那些困难的对话，那些让他们烦心的事情。

The difficult conversation, the thing that irked them.

我希望我能给出一个答案，但我会说有很多策略可以应对。

I wish I had one answer, but I'm going to say lots of strategies tackle that.

所以在这三类中，一类是自上而下的策略，包括觉察和我们对自己说的话，因为我们的信念和心态确实能帮助我们释放压力，更积极地看待压力。

And so in those three bins, one are top-down strategies of awareness and things that we can say to ourselves, since our beliefs and mindsets can really help us release stress, view stress more positively.

第二类不是思维改变身体，而是身体改变思维，这些是你最常使用的策略，对吧？

The second bucket is not that the mind changes the body, but the body changes the mind, and those are the set of strategies that you tend to use the most, right?

我们通过身体活动把压力释放出来，代谢掉，燃烧掉，然后得到缓解。

Where we're working stress out of the body, we're metabolizing it, we're burning it up, and we get relief.

这会改变我们杏仁核的活动，让我们进入更体验性的状态，更多地处于体感皮层中。

It changes our amygdala activity and moves us to more an experiential state where we're more in our somatosensory cortex.

第三类是改变环境，就是远离办公室或城市里所有的压力触发因素，置身于让我们感到平静的环境中。

And then the third bucket is change the scene, just getting away from all the stress triggers that we have in our office or in the city, and being in an environment that we find calming.

也许只是家里的一角，但植入我所说的安全信号，比如有安抚作用的宠物、照片、气味、音乐等。

It might even just be a corner of the house, but implanting what I call safety signals, having things like comforting pets, pictures, smells, music.

说到压力，很明显有短期、中期和长期的压力。

When we talk about stress, it's clear that there's short-term, medium-term, long-term stress.

你研究了所有这些不同形式的压力。

You studied all these different forms of stress.

如果你能给我们简单介绍一下不同形式的压力，以及我们如何学会识别它们，让我们的大脑充满关于压力各种形态的知识，无论是好的还是不好的方面。

If you would be so kind as to just give us an overview of the different forms of stress, how we can learn to recognize those, pepper our minds with knowledge about stress in all its beautiful and not so beautiful forms.

当我们想到压力时，通常想到的是感受到压力、报告压力，这很重要。

When we think about stress, we usually think feeling stress, reporting stress, and that's important.

我们身体的状态也很重要，而且它并不总是和我们的心理状态相关。

What our body's doing is also important, and it's not always related to our mind.

所以测量神经系统的活跃程度以及我们的警觉性，是理解压力的另一种方式。

So measuring levels of the nervous system and how vigilant we are is another way that we can understand stress.

这一点特别重要和有趣，因为这是压力如何深入影响我们的方式，而我们可能并没有意识到。

And that's particularly important and interesting because that's how stress gets under the skin, and we might not be aware.

我们可能不会报告压力，但身体仍然处于紧张状态，交感神经占主导，也就是说我们的身体保持警觉，不断扫描环境中的线索，我们感觉不到安全。

We might not report stress, but we're still holding tension and being much more sympathetically dominated, meaning that our body is vigilant and scanning for cues, and we don't feel safe.

所以我们调动了比实际需要更多的能量。

And so we're mobilizing a lot more energy than we need to.

而且压力对身体来说代价非常大。

And stress is so expensive to the body.

压力反应会消耗大量的能量，也就是线粒体产生的ATP。

The stress response uses a tremendous amount of energy, ATP, that's made by our mitochondria.

如果这种警觉的压力反应整天持续，我们就会感到精疲力竭。

And if we have that kind of vigilant stress response on all day, we're just going to feel exhausted.

我们不一定受到那么大的威胁以至于释放大量皮质醇，但我们的神经系统整天都在上下波动。

And we don't necessarily get so threatened that we release a lot of cortisol, but our nervous system is going up and down all day.

然后还有中等程度的压力事件，可能需要几天或几个月来应对。

Then there's kind of moderate stressful events that maybe take days or months to cope with.

重要的是要觉察，比如现在，我是在真正应对某个紧急情况，还是可以恢复一下？

And what's important there is that noticing, like right now, am I really coping acutely with something or can I restore?

所以那种日常的恢复非常重要。

So that kind of daily restoration is very important.

还有一些长期的压力情况，会持续好几年。

And then there are chronically stressful situations that go on for years.

我们很多人，不是所有人，但很多人生活中都有这样的经历。

Many of us, not all of us, but many of us have those in our life.

这些情况，比如照顾家人，是我们无法改变的。

These are situations, I'll just use caregiving as an example, that we can't change.

我们改变不了别人，也改变不了某些情况或资源，我们可以一直想着它们，不停地想办法解决，希望事情能有所不同，或者我们可以接受，用彻底接受的方法，还有其他策略，来和它们好好相处。

We can't change other people, we can't change certain situations or resources, and we can be thinking about them, chronically problem-solving, trying to wish things were different, or we can use acceptance, radical acceptance strategies, and other strategies to live well with them.

对于那些觉得因为这样或那样的原因，生活永远都会充满压力的人来说，这真的是一个非常重要的策略。你其实可以用一些方法去应对那些无法控制的长期压力，让它们不会对你的身体造成那么大的伤害。

That's a really important strategy for people who feel like their life is going to be stressful forever because of X or Y. You can actually be dealing with uncontrollable chronic stress in ways that it's not going to take that toll on your body.

我研究长期压力以及它如何加速细胞衰老，我可以告诉你，人与人之间的差异非常大。

I study chronic stress and how it accelerates cell aging, and I can tell you there's so much variance between people.

每个人都不一样。

People are so different.

所以在照顾者中，有些人看起来在生物学上比对照组的人更年轻，或者一样年轻，而对照组是那些生活中没有明显重大困难的人。

So among caregivers, some of them look as biologically young or younger than our controls, people with no identifiable big tough situation in their life.

我想快速插播一下，感谢我们的赞助商Eight Sleep。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep.

Eight Sleep生产智能床垫罩，具备制冷、加热和睡眠追踪功能。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity.

Eight Sleep刚刚推出了Pod 6，这是他们最先进的睡眠系统。

Eight Sleep just launched the Pod 6, which is their most advanced sleep system.

Pod 6的尺寸只有之前型号的一半。

The Pod 6 is half the size of their previous models.

它的制冷和加热速度提高了20%，而且传感器数量是之前的九倍，用于追踪你的睡眠。

It's 20% faster with its cooling and heating, and it has nine times as many sensors for tracking your sleep.

Eight Sleep之所以能有效改善你的睡眠质量和时长，是因为它有助于控制你的核心体温。

The reason why Eight Sleep is so effective at improving your sleep quality and duration is because it helps control your core body temperature.

原因在于，要入睡并保持深度睡眠，你的核心体温需要下降大约1到3度。

And the reason for that is that in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your core body temperature has to drop by about one to three degrees.

而要醒来时感觉完全清爽、精力充沛，你实际上希望体温在睡眠的最后几个小时里上升。

And to wake up feeling completely refreshed and energized, you actually want your body temperature to be increasing in the final hours of your sleep.

Eight Sleep会自动调节你整晚的床温，同时监测你的睡眠，并动态调整你的睡眠环境温度，让你获得最大量的深度睡眠和快速眼动睡眠。

Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night and is monitoring your sleep and dynamically adjusting the temperature of your sleep environment so you get the maximum amount of deep sleep and rapid eye movement sleep.

我睡Eight Sleep的床垫罩已经快五年了，随着每一代新产品的推出，它越来越擅长判断我的身体需要什么，才能让我获得最好的夜间睡眠。

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover for nearly five years now, and with each new iteration of Eight Sleep, it gets better and better at figuring out what my body needs in order to get the best possible night's sleep.

如果你想试试Eight Sleep，可以访问eightsleep.com/huberman，购买他们的新款Pod 6最高可优惠200美元。

If you would like to try Eight Sleep, go to eightsleep.com/huberman to get up to $200 off their new Pod 6.

Eight Sleep发货到全球许多国家，包括墨西哥和阿联酋。

Eight Sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE.

再说一次，访问eightsleep.com/huberman，最高可节省200美元。

Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $200.

在你的一篇论文中，你区分了最佳衰老、典型衰老和加速衰老。

In one of your papers, you distinguish between optimal aging, typical aging, and accelerated aging.

如何衡量最佳衰老与加速衰老？为什么在理想衰老过程中，有些压力比没有压力更好？

How does one measure optimal versus accelerated aging, and why would it be that some stress is better than no stress when it comes to aging ideally?

没有压力意味着我们并没有真正在生活，就像我们没有去享受生活的馈赠，而这些馈赠不可避免地伴随着一些挑战和风险。

Having no stress means we're not really living, like we're not engaging in the gifts of life, which inevitably have some challenge and risk.

我给你举个例子。

And let me give you an example.

有一项研究，研究对象是已经退休的老年人。社会给他们贴上了标签，觉得他们的人生中已经不再有有意义的工作，基本上不能再为社会做贡献了。

One study took elderly people who have retired, and society kind of labels them as you're kind of done with your meaningful work in life, and you are pretty much not able to contribute to society.

有太多负面的刻板印象，人们往往会内化这些印象，然后按照这些印象去生活。

There's so many negative stereotypes that people then kind of embody and then live.

这个项目让他们去学校工作，辅导那些有风险的年轻学生。

And this program brought them to work in schools and tutor young at-risk students.

结果，他们从感觉安全、压力小，变成了感觉有挑战但富有创造力。

And what happened to them is they went from feeling maybe safe and under stressed to feeling challenged but generative.

他们感到更有目标了。

They were feeling more purpose.

他们觉得自己在成长，觉得自己的日子更有意义了。

They were feeling like they were growing, and they were feeling like their day had more meaning.

他们和学生们建立了关爱的关系。

They had these caring relationships with the students.

在这项研究中，他们拍摄了海马体的图像，那些参与项目的人，尤其是男性，在项目期间海马体实际上有所增长。

And in this study, they took images of the hippocampus, and those who engaged in the program, particularly the men, actually had growth of their hippocampus during this program.

所以，在人生的任何阶段，我们都可以不断成长、挑战自己，即使到了晚年，也能让大脑继续成长。

So at any stage in life, we can be growing and challenging ourselves, even in our much later years, and growing our brain.

而且你比任何人都清楚，海马体的增长对他们的幸福感和认知功能意味着什么？

And you know more than anyone, what does that hippocampal growth mean for their well-being and their cognitive function?

我几乎忍不住想，这就像锻炼一样，很多人——我想现在每个人都应该明白，锻炼能降低血压、降低静息心率、改善肌肉骨骼功能和骨密度，等等这些。

I almost have to wonder if it's like exercise where so many people, I think now everybody hopefully understands that exercise is going to lower blood pressure, reduce resting heart rate, improve musculoskeletal function and bone density, all that stuff.

但如果你在锻炼过程中拍一张身体反应的快照，血压会大幅升高。

But that if you took a snapshot of the bodily response during exercise, blood pressure is way, way up.

心率会大幅升高。

Heart rate is way, way up.

压力激素会大幅升高。

Stress hormones are way up.

在剧烈运动期间和刚结束后，皮质醇水平会飙升，然而这却引发了一系列适应，让你在大多数时候处于更好的状态。

Cortisol is through the roof during a hard workout and immediately afterwards, and yet that sets in motion a series of adaptations that brings you to a better place most of the time.

有没有证据表明，短期的压力，只要管理得当，也就是说我们不会在接下来的24或48小时里反复纠结这个压力源，而是能够挺过去并以某种方式解决它，那这种压力实际上对我们是有益的，因为它调动了能量储备，甚至可能改变了我们未来对压力源的反应阈值？

Is there any evidence that short bouts of stress, provided that they're managed well, meaning that we don't spend the next 24 or 48 hours ruminating on the stressor, but that we're able to move through the stressor and resolve it in some way, that that's actually beneficial for us because of the mobilization of energy stores and maybe even changing our threshold for reacting to stressors in the future?

我们知道，就像你说的，身体上的压力，如果是短暂且重复的，比如高强度间歇训练，它们不仅提升有氧适能，还提升抗压能力。

We know, as you said, that physical stressors, when they're short and repeated, like high-intensity interval training They are promoting not just aerobic fitness, but stress fitness.

人们会感觉更少反刍思维，更少抑郁，更少焦虑。

People feel less rumination, less depression, less anxiety.

所以它们是在调节神经系统。

So they're kind of tuning up the nervous system.

那心理压力呢？

What about psychological stressors?

我们知道两件事。

We know two things.

第一，我确实认为，当我们习惯了中等强度的压力，并与之互动时，我们会变得更适应，抗压能力也会增强，也就是说，我们不再觉得它们那么有威胁。

So one is, I do think that there is a level of engagement with moderate stressors that when we are used to them, we get fit and our stress resilience builds, meaning we're less threatened by them.

两个人面对完全相同的压力源，一个人可能会有相当过度的应激反应，基本上感觉自己的生存受到威胁。

Two people can approach the exact same stressor, and one person is having a pretty overreactive stress response, where they basically are feeling their survival is threatened.

所以皮质醇很高，血管收缩也很厉害，血压在两者身上都同样升高，但那个感到极度受威胁的人，无论是生存受到威胁还是社会地位受到威胁，也就是自尊心受到威胁，他们的血压升高是因为血管收缩。

So it's high cortisol, high vasoconstriction, and blood pressure goes up equally in both, but the person who's feeling super threatened, either their survival or their social survival, their ego, their blood pressure went up because of the vasoconstriction.

另一个人把同样的压力源看作是“我能行。

The other person who is viewing the same stressor as, "I can do this.

这是一个很好的挑战和机会。

This is a great challenge and opportunity.

我有能力应对。”

I have what it takes."

这种想法会产生不同的血液动力学反应，实际上是更多的心输出量，所以血压也在升高，但这是更健康的方式，大脑得到更多氧气，解决问题的能力也更强。

Those types of thoughts generate a different hemodynamic response, which is actually more cardiac output, so blood pressure's going up, but in this healthier way, more oxygenation to the brain, better problem-solving.

他们能够保持这种积极的心态。

They're able to maintain this positive outlook.

我们在很多实验室研究中测量了这种威胁-挑战反应，我们了解了很多东西。

So we've measured this threat-challenge response in many lab studies, and we know lots of things.

所以如果你更多是挑战反应，那么结束后，你的炎症水平会更低。

So if you're having more of the challenge response, at the end of it, you're less inflamed.

所以在实验室里，一两个小时之内，我们就发现他们没有引发那种促炎反应，而且他们的端粒往往更长，这个指标我们后面可以详细聊，但基本上看起来他们的衰老速度更慢。

So just in the lab, within an hour or two, we see that they didn't trigger all that pro-inflammatory response, and their telomeres tend to be longer, which is a measure we can talk more about, but basically, it looks like they have a slower speed of aging.

所以我们可以把这种反应称为，简单来说，两种心理压力反应：一种是感到受威胁，好像你会失败、会难堪。

So we could call this kind of a, to be really simplistic, two types of psychological stress response, feeling threatened, like you're going to fail, you're embarrassed.

那种社交疼痛的反应我们都很熟悉，感觉非常糟糕。

That social pain response we know well, that feels terrible.

但同时，当我们感到胃里翻腾、心跳加速时，那种巨大的压力反应也很强烈。

But also that huge stress response when we feel it in our stomach, our heart is pounding.

那只是反应过度了。

It's just an over-exaggerated response.

这种反应在生物学上是不同的，伴随的想法也不同，而且我们恢复得慢得多。

That response biologically is different, and the thoughts that go with it are different, and we recover a lot slower.

然后还有一种挑战反应，那更像是那种被激活、兴奋的状态。

And then there's the challenge response, which it's more of that kind of activated, excited response.

而美妙之处在于，有很多情绪和社会心理学家的研究都表明，可以引导人们走向挑战反应。

And the beauty is that there are lots of studies out there done by emotions and social psychologists that tilt people toward the challenge response.

我们其实可以主动激发那种挑战反应。

We can actually promote that challenge response.

所以当你问到，反复出现压力反应是不是好事？

And so when you asked about, is it good to have a repeated stress response?

是的，如果它是可控的，对吧？

Yes, if it's manageable, right?

那我们就是在锻炼抗压能力这块肌肉。

Then we're kind of building the muscle of stress resilience.

那人们，包括我自己，能做些什么来激发那种挑战反应呢？

What are the sorts of things that people, I, can do in order-- including me, I should say, can do in order to wage that challenge response?

这纯粹是心态的问题吗？

Is this purely based on mindset?

而不是说“为什么是我？”

Instead of saying, "Why me?

“为什么这样？”

Why this?

为什么是现在？

Why now?

我简直不敢相信会发生这种事。

I can't believe this is happening."

是不是要心态转变，变成“好吧，这是个成长的好机会。

Is it a mental pivot to, "Okay, this is a great opportunity for growth.

我不知道该怎么应对，但我一定能应对。

I don't know how I'm going to manage this, but I'll manage this.

你想阻止我，就得先杀了我”这种心态？

You want to stop me, you got to kill me" type of mindset?

是不是这样一转念，身体就会跟着改变？

Is that the switch, that then the body follows?

关键就在于，人们需要找到适合自己的力量宣言，我称之为“压力护盾”，要感觉对，而且自己真心相信。

The whole trick here is that people need to find the strength statements, the stress shields, I call them, that fit them, that feels right, and that they believe.

要做狮子，而不是瞪羚。

Be the lion instead of the gazelle.

狮子和瞪羚都有高血压、高压力，狮子在追瞪羚。

So the lion and gazelle are both high blood pressure, high stress, and the lion's chasing the gazelle.

但瞪羚因为可能会死，所以产生了完全的威胁性血管收缩反应。

But the gazelle's having this total threat vasoconstriction response because she might die.

狮子可能会得到晚餐。

The lion might get dinner.

所以它需要激发压力反应，因为它太兴奋了，能吃到接下来几天的美味晚餐。

So it's needing to mount the stress response because it's so excited to get the tasty dinner for the next few days.

因此，狮子处于那种挑战反应状态。

And so the lion is having that challenge response.

所以我们可以提醒自己，做狮子。

And so we can remind ourselves, be the lion.

并不是说我们总是狮子或瞪羚。

It's not that we're always lion or gazelle.

我们可以塑造这一点。

We get to shape that.

方法有很多，你得找到适合自己的。

There's all these strategies, and you got to use what works for you.

告诉自己：“我能行。

Telling yourself, "I got this.

我可以做到。

I can do it.

我能挺过去。

I can get through it.

我有这个能力。”

I have what it takes."

这些都是很好的护盾。

Those are all good shields.

还有一种情况是，有些人一感到压力就特别焦虑。

And another set is, some of us feel really stressed out by stress.

一旦心跳加速，就会想：“哎呀，这对我不利。”

Once we feel our heart racing, that leads to, "Oh, no, this is bad for me."

所以与其因为压力而感到紧张，我们其实应该提醒自己，这种压力反应是在给我们赋能。

And so rather than getting stressed by stress, we actually want to remind ourselves that this stress response is empowering.

这会帮助我应对。

This is going to help me cope.

我的身体很兴奋。

My body's excited.

我的身体现在正在做它该做的事。

My body is doing just what it should right now.

所以这种重新定义，在温迪·门德斯和其他人的研究中，我的同事们做的这种重新评估研究，他们基本上训练人们把压力看作积极的。

So that reframing in studies by Wendy Mendes and others, my colleagues who do this reappraisal research, they have basically trained people to view stress as positive.

在实验室的压力情境下，人们表现得更好。

During the stressful situations in the lab, people do better.

他们表现得更出色。

They perform better.

他们感受到更积极的情绪。

They feel more positive emotion.

他们解决问题的能力更强。

They problem solve better.

他们恢复得更快。

They recover more quickly.

所以这效果相当显著。

So pretty powerful stuff.

我想快速休息一下，感谢我们的赞助商AG1。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

我很高兴地告诉大家，AG1刚刚推出了他们的最新配方，AG1 Pro。

I'm excited to share that AG1 has just launched their newest formulation, AG1 Pro.

AG1 Pro在临床验证的AG1配方基础上，添加了三种重要的新成分：一水肌酸、HMB钙和锌肌肽。

AG1 Pro takes the clinically backed AG1 formula, which is a blend of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and adaptogens, and adds three important new ingredients: creatine monohydrate, calcium HMB, and zinc carnosine.

每份含有五克一水肌酸，有助于增强肌肉力量和表现，同时也有益于大脑健康。

Each serving has five grams of creatine monohydrate to support muscle strength and performance, as well as brain health.

HMB钙有助于肌肉恢复，减少肌肉分解，而锌肌肽则有助于支持和改善肠道内壁。

Calcium HMB to support muscle recovery and reduce muscle breakdown, and zinc carnosine to support and improve the lining of your gut.

这三种成分都有充分的科学依据支持，所以我很高兴看到它们被加入到现有的AG1配方中。

All three of these ingredients have compelling science to support them, and therefore, I love seeing them added to the existing AG1 formula.

你们大多数人都知道，我每天服用AG1已经将近14年了。

As most of you know, I've been taking AG1 every day for nearly 14 years now.

我开始服用它的时候，甚至还不知道播客是什么。

I started taking it long before I even knew what a podcast was.

这是个很棒的产品，现在新的AG1 Pro配方让它变得更好了。

It's a great product, and it's now made even better with the new AG1 Pro formula.

如果你想尝试AG1 Pro，可以访问drinkag1.com/huberman，获取特别优惠。

If you would like to try AG1 Pro, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a special offer.

AG1会随你的首次订阅免费赠送一瓶omega-3辅酶Q10。

AG1 is giving away a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first subscription.

再说一次，访问drinkag1.com/huberman，首次订阅AG1就能免费获得一瓶omega-3辅酶Q10。

Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get a free bottle of omega-3 coenzyme Q10 with your first AG1 subscription.

我很想聊聊你探索过的其他一些健康指标。

I'd love to talk a little bit about some of the other health metrics that you've explored.

你的一篇论文里有一张图，是皮卡德2018年的那篇。

There's a graph in one of your papers, it's the Picard paper 2018.

它基本上描述了线粒体健康与情绪之间的关系，特别是针对那些有不同情绪倾向的人。

It essentially describes the relationship between mitochondrial health and mood in the context of people who have different type of mood tendencies.

如果你愿意的话，能不能简单描述一下那项研究的总体轮廓，以及你觉得最有趣的一些点？

If you would be willing to just describe the top contour of that study and some of the points that you find most interesting.

我们做过一些深入的研究，观察那些日常压力很大的人，比如照护者，然后我们也看普通人，比如神经典型孩子的父母，他们其实压力也不小。

We've done these in-depth studies where we are looking at people under a lot of daily demand, caregivers, and then we look at normal people, parents of neurotypical children, who still have a lot of stress.

但我们接着问，长期处于压力下的人，是不是衰老得更快？

But we then ask, do people under chronic stress have accelerated aging?

所以我们看端粒、表观遗传、线粒体健康，然后找出那些看起来状态很好、有韧性、不显得脆弱的人，是什么因素在起作用。

So we look at telomeres, epigenetics, mitochondrial health, and then what explains those who look really good, who look resilient, and don't look vulnerable.

这样我们就能发现，他们日常生活中有什么“神奇配方”能保护他们免受慢性压力的影响。

And so then we can find out what's the magic sauce in the day that protects them from chronic stress.

我的同事马丁·皮卡德，他一直痴迷于线粒体健康，把它作为理解压力、健康和疾病的一个途径，他开发了一种在人类身上测量线粒体健康的方法。

So Martin Picard, my colleague who has been obsessed with mitochondrial health as a pathway to understanding both stress and really health and disease, he has developed a way to measure mitochondrial health in humans.

所以我们可以测量一系列酶，然后根据我们拥有的线粒体数量进行调整。

So we can measure a bunch of enzymes, and then we can adjust it for how many mitochondria we have.

所以我们能从血液中得到一个非常好的指标。

So we have this really nice index we can get from the blood.

在这项针对年轻母亲的研究中，她们要么有普通孩子，要么有自闭症孩子，我们发现照顾孩子的母亲线粒体活性显著降低或减弱。

And in this study of young mothers who had either typical children or children with autism, we found that the caregiving moms had significantly lower or dampened mitochondrial activity.

这意味着她们无法产生那么多能量。

What that means is they can't produce as much energy.

所以如果她们因为长期压力而感到更疲惫，我们就知道原因了。

So if they're feeling more exhausted from the chronic stress, we know why.

这相当显著，马丁评论说，其中一些低水平甚至看起来像那些因遗传原因导致线粒体活性低的人。

It was quite dramatic, and Martin commented some of those low levels even looked like people with some genetic reasons to have low mitochondrial activity.

但这项研究的妙处在于。

But here's the beauty of that study.

然后我们可以观察她们一天中的情绪，并问，那些线粒体酶非常好、因此应该产生大量ATP的照顾者怎么样？

We then get to look within their day at their mood and ask, well, what about the caregivers who have really great mitochondrial enzymes and thus should be making a lot of ATP?

他们醒来时和晚上都有更多积极情绪，尤其是晚上。

They had more positive emotions, both waking up and in the evening, but especially in the evening.

有趣的是，在这些关于压力和情绪的每日日记研究中，我们知道对长期健康很重要的一点是，你在晚上，尤其是在压力大的日子里，感觉有多积极。

And what's so interesting is all of these daily diary studies of stress and mood, one of the things we know that matters for long-term health is how positive you feel at night, especially on a stressful day.

所以在压力大的一天结束时，你能唤起一些满足、轻松、自信、快乐的感觉吗？

So at the end of a stressful day, can you muster some feelings of content, ease, confidence, joy?

你还有这些感觉吗，还是压力已经把你的积极性全冲走了？

Do you have any of that, or has it just wiped out your positivity?

所以那些负面情绪较少或正面情绪较多的人，往往有更好的健康轨迹。

And so for people who feel either lower negative or higher positive, they tend to have better health trajectories.

比如十年后，抑郁更少，心脏病更少，早逝更少。

So like a decade later, less depression, less heart disease, less early death.

这就是为什么我们如此关注日常情绪。

So that's why we care so much about daily moods.

在我们的研究中，看起来当天的情绪与当天的线粒体水平确实高度相关。

In our study, it looks like the daily mood was really quite correlated with the mitochondrial levels that same day.

然后我们测量了相隔几天的情绪，相关性就低多了。

Then we measured mood days away from that, and it was much less correlated.

这只是我们在这个领域的首个研究，但它确实让我们觉得，线粒体可能每天都在受我们的想法和情绪影响。

It's just our first study on this, but it really leads us to think that our mitochondria are sensitive to our thoughts and our feelings, probably on a daily basis.

所以，对于我们这些处于长期压力状态的人来说，那种压力，比如压力源，事实上——

So for those of us that find ourselves in a state of chronic stress, chronic stress of the sort that really the stressor, the fact that-

……比如非常亲近的亲戚或家人正在应对终身疾病，或者我们无法摆脱某种处境，没有完全的能力去消除压力源。

... a very close relative or family member is dealing with a lifelong condition, or the fact that we can't extract ourselves from a situation, that we are not in full agency to remove the stressor.

对这种事实的彻底接受，可以转化为一种理解：好吧，即便如此，我们还是有工具可以使用，不仅能抵消负面健康影响，甚至可能在这种处境中茁壮成长。

Radical acceptance of that fact then can ratchet into an understanding of okay, and yet there are tools that we can use to not just offset the negative health effects, but maybe even thrive in the context of this.

本质上，就是把最初被视为诅咒的东西变成祝福——

Essentially turning what initially was thought of as a curse into a blessing-

……至少在生物学上是这样。

... at least biologically speaking.

对于这些基本上无法避免的压力源，我们有哪些最佳应对方法呢？

What do we know about best practices for mitigating these essentially non-negotiable stressors?

我觉得这在一定程度上取决于我们如何看待生活以及自己在生活中的目标。

I think it is partly how we view life and our purpose in our own life.

我们生来就进入的这个游戏是什么？甚至仅仅是“坏事不应该发生”这种想法，就让我们容易感到自己是受害者，觉得自己无法接受已经发生的坏事。

What's this game that we were born into, and even just the idea that bad things shouldn't happen sets us up for vulnerability to feel victimized, to feel like we can't accept bad things that have happened.

所以退一步，问问所有听众：你的生活中是否有一个你不想要但又无法改变的情况？

So just stepping back and asking everyone listening, do you have a situation in your life that is unwanted and you can't change?

你花了多少时间想这件事？

How much time do you spend thinking about this?

我们越是花时间去试图解决问题、担忧，或者只是希望事情有所不同，就越是在制造一种慢性压力状态。

The more we spend time trying to problem solve or worry, or just wishing things were different, the more we are creating a chronic stress state.

所以，哪怕只是退一步，看清自己生活中哪些情况让我感到压力，就已经是第一步了。

And so just even taking that first step back to get perspective on, what are the situations in my life that stress me out?

在这些情况中，哪些是我无法改变的，我能把它们圈出来吗？

And which of these can I circle those that I can't change?

仅仅认识到这件事不会消失，就已经非常有力了，因为正如我所说，我们可以放下包袱，给自己一些解脱和自由，不再让它占据我们的大脑和身体。

Just that recognition of this isn't going to go away is incredibly powerful because we can, as I say, put the baggage down and give ourselves some relief and some freedom from the big space it holds in our mind and in our body.

而且这不是一次性的，而是一种练习。

And this is not a one-time thing, it's a practice.

彻底接纳是我们反复练习的，用来帮助我们松开对不想要的情况的执着，不让它们控制我们的幸福感，也不让它们占据我们宝贵的注意力。

Radical acceptance is something we practice over and over to help us loosen our grip on unwanted situations, on letting them control our well-being and taking up this mental real estate that's so precious, our attention.

我在这方面是专家，因为我是一个照顾者，我经常需要从希望事情有所不同、试图解决问题，转向彻底接纳现状。

I'm an expert at this because I'm a caregiver, and I often need to refocus from wishing things were different, trying to solve things, to radical acceptance of this is how things are right now.

只要提醒自己，其中是有自由的，有些事情你是可以做的。

And by just reminding ourselves That there is freedom within that, that there are things that you can do.

你实际上可以过得更好，与这些情况共存。

You can actually live better, live well with these situations.

所以让我告诉你我们从照顾者那里发现了什么。

So let me tell you what we found from our caregivers.

我们测量他们晚上的思绪在哪里。

We measure where their mind is at night.

我们给他们发消息，问他们：“在过去的五分钟里，你有多少时间在希望事情有所不同？”

We ping them and we say, "In the last five minutes, how much have you been wishing things were different?

在我们联系你之前，你在做的事情上投入和专注的程度有多高？

How much have you been engaged and focused in what you're doing right before we pinged you?"

就这两个问题，就能告诉我们很多关于这个人幸福感的状况。

And just those two questions tell us so much about that person's well-being.

实际上，是的，照顾者更多处于我所说的痛苦状态，希望事情有所不同，没有活在当下。

And actually, yes, the caregivers are doing more of what I'll call suffering, wishing things were different, not being present for their lives.

但不管这种差异如何，无论是不是照顾者，这种消极的走神状态，没有专注于当下，希望事情有所不同而不是投入其中，预示着更多的不快乐。

But regardless of that difference, whether people are a caregiver or not, this negative mind-wandering state of not being present for your evening, wishing things were different instead of being engaged, predicts more unhappiness.

它预示着更短的端粒。

It predicts shorter telomeres.

所以这表明，这是一种持续了数天、数月、数年的模式，一直在消耗他们。

So it suggests that it's a pattern that has gone on for days, months, and years that has been wearing on them.

所以我觉得一些有用的比喻是，想想这个不想要的情况，想想你正在拉一根绑在砖墙上的绳子。

And so some of the metaphors that I think are helpful for this are, think of this unwanted situation, and think of how you're pulling a rope that's attached to a brick wall.

你这样做是因为你在乎。

And you're doing that because you care.

你希望自己、这个人或某个群体能变得更好。

You want things to be better for yourself or this person or a group.

这是你热衷的事情，所以你不停地拉，每天拉，但就是拉不动那堵砖墙。

It's something you're passionate about, and so you're pulling and pulling, and every day you're pulling, and you can't move that brick wall.

唯一发生的，就是你的手被磨破了。

So the only thing that's happening is that you're chafing your hands.

如果干脆放下绳子呢？

What if you just drop the rope?

当我开始试图解决那些无解的问题时，我会对自己说：“放下绳子。”

I say that to myself, "Drop the rope," when I start getting going on trying to solve unsolvable problems.

砖墙还在那里。

The brick wall's still there.

它永远不会动。

It's never going to move.

但我的手自由了，所以我就能腾出手来，去过那些我能掌控的生活。

Yet my hands are free, and so I can be freed up to live in the ways that I do have control over.

你描述的这个拉砖墙的画面，我觉得特别有感染力，而且按照你说的，试着放下绳子是完全合理的，因为拉那根绳子消耗的能量实在太大了。

As you describe this pulling on a brick wall, I find it a very compelling image, and one that makes total sense to try and drop the rope, as you describe it, because of the incredibly high energetic demand that pulling on that rope represents.

就像你说的，这有点像把资源浪费在一件没有结果的事情上。

As you said, it's sort of a way of diverting resources towards something that has no conclusion.

而放下绳子，你就可以把这些资源用到别的地方去。

And in dropping the rope, you can divert those resources towards other things.

我们真的非常非常喜欢掌控感，我们想控制未来，不仅仅是因为这让我们感觉强大和快乐，更是因为这样我们就能放松下来。

We really, really, really love control, and we want to control the future, not just because it makes us feel powerful and happy, but because then we can relax.

如果我们知道接下来会发生什么，如果一切都可以预测，我们会开心得多。

If we know what's going to happen next, if it's predictable, we're that much happier.

我们就不用时刻警惕、四处张望，为可能发生的事情做准备。

We're not vigilant and looking ahead and being prepared for what might happen.

能够坦然面对不确定性，是一种美好但难得的韧性品质。

Being comfortable with uncertainty is a beautiful but rare resilience factor.

能容忍不确定性的人，焦虑和抑郁会少得多，而且遇到压力大的事情时，恢复得也更快。

People who tolerate uncertainty have much less anxiety and depression, and when stressful things happen, they get over it more quickly.

我觉得我们确实可以通过一些练习来帮助自己对不确定的未来感到轻松。

And I think there are practices we can do that help us feel ease with the uncertain future.

比如做一些正念的自我检查，注意到自己正带着对不确定性的压力，然后把不确定性重新理解为生活神秘之美，以及当我们意识到自己无法控制明天时所能感受到的自由。

Some of these mindful check-ins, noticing that we are carrying around uncertainty stress is one way, and then reframing uncertainty as the beauty of the mystery of life and the freedom that we can feel when we realize we don't control tomorrow.

我们顺其自然，尽力而为，用好奇心去看待事物，看看会发生什么，这本身就是一种乐趣。

We just go with it, and we do our best, and what delight there is in just viewing things with curiosity and just seeing what emerges.

所以甚至只是我们的姿势。

So even just our posture.

好，这里有一个应对不确定性的练习。

Well, here's an exercise for dealing with uncertainty.

与其保持那种警觉的姿势，试图吸收一切并预测下一秒，不如向后靠，慢慢呼吸。

Instead of that alert posture when we're trying to take it all in and predict the next second, just lean back and take some slow breaths.

我们知道这有助于我们调整方向，意识到我们其实可以用这种方式面对时间，让事情自然到来，接受所发生的一切。

We know that's going to help orient us, and realize that we can actually face time in that way by letting it come to us and receiving what happens.

这和我们在白天通常的“行动模式”是完全不同的身体姿态。

And that's a completely different body stance than our usual go mode during the day.

这其实就是说，我处于一种接纳的状态，我会好奇接下来会发生什么。

And that's just a way of saying, "I am in a receptive mode, and I'm going to just be curious about what arises."

这个我其实是在一次冥想静修中学到的，因为我属于那种A型性格的人，每次静修结束，我都会从非常放松的状态，一下子又变回那种身体前倾、紧张兮兮的样子，心里想着待办清单在哪儿呢。

And so I actually learned that on a meditation retreat because I tend to be type A, and I'll leave a retreat going from very relaxed to that leaning forward tense of where's the to-do list?

所以我就一直带着那种让时间自然流淌、不去试图控制一切的心态。

And so carrying with me that posture of let time unfold as it will without trying to control things.

我想快速休息一下，感谢我们的赞助商之一，ROKA。

I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors, ROKA.

ROKA生产的眼镜和太阳镜质量绝对是最顶级的。

ROKA makes eyeglasses and sunglasses that are the absolute highest quality.

最近我和ROKA合作，推出了一款新的红镜片眼镜。

ROKA and I recently teamed up to create a new pair of red lens glasses.

这款红镜片眼镜是专门设计在太阳落山后的晚上佩戴的。

These red lens glasses are meant to be worn in the evening after the sun goes down.

它们能过滤掉屏幕和LED灯发出的短波长光，而LED灯是现在室内最常见的照明光源。

They filter out short wavelength light that comes from screens and from LED lights, which are the most common indoor lighting nowadays.

我想强调一下，ROKA的红色镜片眼镜不是传统的防蓝光眼镜。

I want to emphasize ROKA red lens glasses are not traditional blue blockers.

它们确实能过滤蓝光，但过滤的远不止蓝光。

They do filter out blue light, but they filter out a lot more than just blue light.

实际上，它们能过滤掉所有抑制褪黑激素的短波长光。

In fact, they filter out the full range of short wavelength light that suppresses the hormone melatonin.

顺便说一句，晚上和夜间你需要褪黑激素水平高。

By the way, you want melatonin high in the evening and at night.

这样你就能轻松入睡并保持睡眠。

Makes it easy to fall and stay asleep.

而那些短波长光会促使皮质醇升高。

And those short wavelengths trigger increases in cortisol.

皮质醇升高在一天早些时候是好事，但晚上和夜间你肯定不希望皮质醇升高。

Increases in cortisol are great in the early part of the day, but you do not want increases in cortisol in the evening and at night.

ROKA的红色镜片眼镜能确保褪黑激素正常健康地升高，同时让皮质醇保持低水平，这正是你晚上和夜间所需要的。

These ROKA red lens glasses ensure normal, healthy increases in melatonin and that your cortisol levels stay low, which is, again, what you want in the evening and at night.

这样一来，ROKA红镜片眼镜真的能帮你放松下来，更好地进入睡眠状态。

In doing so, these ROKA red lens glasses really help you calm down and improve your transition to sleep.

如果你想试试ROKA，可以去roka.com看看。

If you'd like to try ROKA, go to roka.com.

网址是R-O-K-A.com，输入优惠码Huberman，首单可以省20%。

That's R-O-K-A.com, and enter the code Huberman to save 20% off your first order.

再说一遍，roka.com，结账时输入优惠码Huberman就行。

Again, that's roka.com and enter the code Huberman at checkout.

这真的很有意思。

It's really interesting.

这正好触及了我经常思考的一个核心问题，关于压力管理和整体生活状态的提升。我觉得我们收到的信息里，大约有一半是关于压力和身心干预的，而这些都跟采用这种重心前移的姿态有关。

It gets right to the heart of something that I spend a lot of time thinking about in the context of stress management and also just general thriving, which is that I think that about half of the messages that we get relate to stress and mind body interventions relate to adopting this forward center of mass.

就是那种面对挑战时，迎面而上、直接冲过去的态度。

This idea of when challenge arises, you smash into it, you go through it.

另一方面，还有一些减压技巧，无论是心理上的还是身体上的，比如身体导向、思维导向等等，这些更像是你描述的那种，不是那种被压得节节后退、被事情推着走的状态，而是一种更开放的接纳模式。

On the other hand, there are these stress mitigation techniques, both mental and physical, body-oriented, mind-oriented, et cetera, that are more of the sort that you described, that are not being back on your heels, so to speak, like letting things bulldoze you, but are more of this receptive mode.

你觉得我们是不是可以总结出一个通用的框架或模式，让大家如果愿意的话可以自己拿来用？当然这不是非此即彼的选择，但如果一个人工具包里两种都有，是不是会更有价值？

Do you think it's fair for us to adopt a sort of general framework and model that perhaps people can adopt for themselves if they like, that of course it's not an either/or, but that having both of these in one's kit of tools could be valuable?

因为一种方式消耗的能量更少，但显然，它提供的主观能动性机会也少一些。

Because one is less energetically demanding, but of course, offers less opportunity for agency.

或者至少看起来是这样。

Or at least apparently so.

那就是向后靠的那种方式。

That's the leaning back.

而另一种方式确实给了你发挥主观能动性的机会。

And then the other certainly gives an opportunity for agency.

但我们从一百多年的心理学和精神病学文献中知道，

But we know from 100 years or more of psychology and psychiatric literature

……以及从新兴的压力缓解研究来看，这其实是一项需要付出努力的工作。

... and from the emerging literature on stress mitigation, that it's work.

它不是没有代价的。

It's not something that is without a cost.

它能让你得到比被压力碾压好得多的结果——

It can get you far better results than it were you to just let stress bulldoze you-

但这是需要付出努力的，所以我们必须非常刻意地强调这种努力。

... but that it's work, and so we have to emphasize that work in very deliberate ways.

当我们知道这样做有成效时，就应该努力；当我们知道前面是一堵墙时，就应该放手。

When we know it's productive, we should work, and when we know there's a brick wall, we should let go.

所以我喜欢这个“向前推进”的想法。

So I like this forward mass idea.

我觉得这就像你要么用力推，要么松开手，而这两种都需要。

I think of it as you muscle it and/or you release it, and we need both.

所以，在合适的情境和时机下，放手是一种非常重要、明智且有辨别力的减压方式。

And so that letting go is a really important, wise, discerning way to mitigate stress in the right situations in the right time.

我们不可能事事都硬扛，对吧？

And we can't muscle through everything, right?

所以，我喜欢的另一种思考方式，就是把生活看作一波又一波的浪潮。

So another way I like to think about it is just the waves of life.

我们就像在大海里，会遇到小波浪。

We are in an ocean, and we have small waves.

也会遇到大波浪。

We have big waves.

下一个波浪总会打过来。

We're always going to be hit by the next wave.

所以，这就像熟练地冲浪或航行，当我们能分辨出什么时候能掌控，什么时候不能，什么时候能真正感到安全和轻松，什么时候需要轻轻划水，我们就能做得更好。

And so it's this skillful surfing or navigating that we can do better when we realize when we control things, when we can't, when we can truly feel safe and have ease, versus when we need to kind of gently paddle.

对于正在收听并想开始实践的人来说，你觉得花时间写下来或说出来一个连贯的故事会有帮助吗？

For people that are listening to this and want to start to adopt practices, do you think that spending some time creating a written or a spoken narrative is helpful?

我们常听到这种说法，但有没有数据支持写日记作为一种工具呢？

We hear this, but are there any data that support the use of journaling as a tool?

当然有。

Definitely.

构建一个连贯的叙述，对我们理解、寻找意义、找到解决方式、围绕我们的经历和遭遇形成社会认同，都至关重要。

Creating a coherent narrative is critical to our ability to make sense, find meaning, find resolution, have a social identity around our lived experience, what happens to us.

所以叙事几乎就是一切，对吧？

So narrative is kind of everything, right?

在压力研究中，重要的不是发生了什么，而是我们如何解读它、如何回应它。

In stress research, it's not what happens to us, it's how we're interpreting it and how we're responding to it.

我听过你在谈论什么是压力时也说过同样的话。

And I've heard you say the exact same thing when you've talked about what is stress.

真正重要的是我们围绕它构建的叙事。

It's really what narrative we're creating around it.

所以我认为，一个关于目的的叙事——填入对你来说有意义的内容——正是我们不同于我们研究的老鼠或猴子的原因。

So I think a narrative of purpose, fill in the blank about what's meaningful to you, but that is why we're different than just the rats that we study or the monkeys.

我们有能力展望未来，思考我们的人生目标是什么，看到并知道自己终将死去，而且我们可以在一定程度上掌控自己如何生活，甚至如何死去，以及我们希望被如何铭记。

We have the ability to do this projection to the future, to ask what is our purpose in life, to see and know that we are going to die, and we can have some control over how we live, and maybe even how we die, and how we want to be remembered.

这太美了。

That is so beautiful.

这帮助我们超越“穿着衣服的猴子”的状态。

That helps us rise above this being monkeys in clothes.