精要：运动科学与实践 | 伊多·波塔尔

欢迎来到胡伯曼实验室精华版，在这里我们将回顾过往节目，为您提供最有效且可操作的、基于科学的心理健康、身体健康和表现提升工具。

Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance.

我是安德鲁·胡伯曼，斯坦福大学医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。

I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.

现在，让我开始与伊托·波特尔的对话。

And now for my discussion with Ito Portal.

伊托，感谢你今天来到这里。

Ito, thank you for coming here today.

多年来，我们一直保持联系，我逐渐意识到，你在运动这一领域是一位真正的思想家。

Over the years, we've been in communication and I've come to realize that you're a true intellectual of the topic of movement.

我将思想家定义为能够从多个层次理解一个主题的人。

And I define an intellectual as somebody who can understand a topic at multiple levels of granularity.

首先，你能告诉我们人们应该如何思考如何开始一项运动练习吗？

To start off, could you inform us how people should think about approaching a movement practice?

任何良好的运动练习的第一层是什么？

What is the first layer of any good movement practice?

这是一个开放的系统，没有中心，是去中心化的，可以从任何地方入手，这正是它的奇妙之处，也是它的优势。

It's an open system, it has no center, it's decentralized, and it can be approached from anywhere, and that's its magic, and that's the benefit of it.

有些人通过身体作为切入点，而游戏精神也可以成为一个入口和特质，这种开放性非常强。

Some people find the body a good entry point, and then playfulness can be an entry point, an attribute, and this is so open.

因此，我不希望限制人们以某种方式去参与练习，但我也希望鼓励他们进行自我探索。

So, I don't want to limit people and limit their minds in the way that they engage with a practice, but I also want to encourage the self inquiry.

当人们进入运动练习时，这关乎教育，让人意识到自己生活在一个身体里，生活在运动中，思维也是一种运动，人生也是一种运动，同时关注情绪的流动，只是让注意力集中在一切都在运动这一事实上。

So, when people enter movement practice, it is about education, bringing some awareness to the fact that they are living in a body, that they are living in motion, that their mind is a type of movement, that their life is a type of movement, bringing attention to the movement of the emotions as well, bringing just attention to the fact that things are in motion.

对我来说，运动练习就是这种审视和将这种觉知带入事物的过程。

And this for me is the movement practice, is this examination and bringing this awareness into things.

我们现在坐在这里，我也意识到自己的身体，意识到事物如何让我感受，你的表情如何向我传递信息，我并非只处于一种有限的、过度语言化的状态，因为那样会错过许多美妙的流动。

As we sit now here, I'm also aware of my body, I'm also aware of the way that things make me feel, the way that your face is communicating to me, I'm not just in some limited overly verbal state, because it misses a lot of the beautiful flux.

实际上，在你今天到来之前，我注意到自己在这栋房子里上下楼梯时，不自觉地加入了一点儿多年前曾有的游戏感，但那已经是很久以前的事了。

Actually, in anticipation of you arriving here today, I noticed that as I was going up and down the stairs in this house, that I was injecting a little bit of playfulness in the way that I might have many, many decades ago, but haven't for a very long time.

于是我问自己，这是否就是Edo所指的，而不仅仅是简单地说：我有四十五分钟，我要在洗澡和吃晚饭前做一段运动练习。

And I asked myself whether or not that's what Edo is referring to, as opposed to, but of course not exclusive from just saying, I have forty five minutes, I'm going to do movement practice before I shower and have some dinner.

你能和我们分享一些想法，帮助人们思考或把运动练习融入日常生活吗？也许还可以谈谈玩耍或趣味性的潜在作用？

Could you share with us just some ideas to get people thinking about, or maybe even incorporating movement practice into their day and maybe even touch on the potential role of play or playfulness?

有一点就是你所说的无言状态。

One thing is this, what you call wordlessness.

我一直建议人们去体验非语言的感知。

I have been recommending to people non verbal experiences.

对运动的觉察是一个很好的起点，能帮助你关注这一层面；随着练习的深入，这一层面会越来越清晰，对大多数人而言，这将成为一个远离各种状态与困境的安全港湾，并释放出许多潜在的特质、力量、新鲜感和诸多美好的东西。

The awareness of motion is a very good way to start, to bring awareness to that layer, and that layer will start to get clarified more and more and more the more you practice, and then it will enable for most people a safe haven away from many states and difficulties, and will unlock a lot of potential attributes and strengths and freshness and a lot of beautiful things.

关于我们是谁，其中一个相当深刻的视角来自深刻影响我思想的人——已故的莫舍·费登奎斯。

Really, one of the pretty perspectives about who we are comes from a person who influenced my thinking a lot, Moshe Feldenkrais, the late Moshe Feldenkrais.

他将身体分为三个核心要素：首先是神经系统，其次是肌肉骨骼等机械系统，第三是环境，这是一种独特的视角。

And he talks about the body as the core three elements, the core nervous system, two is the mechanical system of muscle skeleton, etcetera, and the third is the environment, which is a unique way to look at it.

他还谈到，神经系统既接收来自外部的信息，也接收来自内部的信息。

And it talks about how the nervous system is both receiving information from the outside and from the inside.

在生命的最初几年，你会大量地学习区分哪些是‘我’，哪些是‘非我’。

And in the first years of life, you work a lot on differentiating those, what is me and what is not me.

当你感受到运动时，你会感受到来自外部的运动——当然，这是传达到你身上的，同时也会感受到你自身的内在运动；静止也是如此。

And I think when you feel movement, you feel the movement of the outside that is of course arriving to you and receiving this, and also your own internal movement, and the same can be said for stillness.

因此，将注意力带入这些层面，是一件颇具挑战的事。

So, bringing the attention into those layers, it's a tricky thing.

这是一种难以捉摸的体验，但确实非常有益，值得开始训练和练习，去感受的不是我们的思想，也不仅仅是我们的身体，而是去觉察那种动态性、流动性和运动感，而它存在于所有这些层面中。

It's one of those elusive things to look at, but it's definitely of huge benefit to start to train it, start to practice it, to feel not our thoughts, not necessarily our body, but to start to recognize the dynamic nature, the flux, the motion, and it occurs in all these layers.

你需要在多个地方去发现它，之后才能逐渐让它真正成为你自己的东西。

You will need to find it in multiple locations before you start to more and more make it your own, make it really yours.

比如一些简单实用的方法，我过去常这么做：我曾在香港待过一段时间，需要进行我的练习，但我对商业健身房很反感，而且那里自然环境也不多，于是我就会背起包，在香港拥挤的街道上散步。

For example, simple pragmatic things, I used to do this, I spent some time in Hong Kong, I would need to get my practice in, but I'm really turned off from commercial gyms and there is not a lot of nature accessible there, so I would just strap on my bag and I would walk the streets of Hong Kong, which are very crowded.

然后我会尽量避免碰到任何人。

And then I would try to avoid touching anyone.

那会是整整两个小时，完全投入、全然沉浸于我的身体之中，体验美好的事物，享受过程，同时也在不断成长。

And it would be like two hours of just like moving involved, fully involved, fully in my body and experiencing beautiful things and enjoying and developing myself as well.

所以，这是一种练习的方式。

So, this is an example of a way to practice.

比如我们现在坐的这种椅子，椅子本身并不太能活动，但确实有摇椅，对吧？

And then the way that we're sitting like these chairs, for example, our chairs are not very dynamic, but there is rocking chairs, right?

我建议很多孩子都试试这种做法。

And this is something I recommend for a lot of kids.

在学校里，我以前就喜欢摇椅子，这很常见，我还会让椅子变得更灵活。

Like in schools, I used to rock on the chair, which is very common, I would make the chairs even more mobile.

我会支持更多的动作，这样就能把注意力带到这些动作上，同时也能把注意力从这些动作转移到其他事情上，这能让我不断焕新，不让水停滞。

And I would support more motion, and then I would be able to bring attention there, but I would also be able to bring attention away from it into other things, and it keeps refreshing me, so I don't become stale, the water doesn't stand.

这就是运动的美妙之处。

This is the beauty of movement.

你可以长时间集中注意力，用思维、专注、觉知去做一些了不起的事情，而且这是真正投入其中的。

So, you can focus for long periods of time and do incredible things with the mind, with focus, with awareness, attention, and it's with skin in the game.

所以，运动让我在看待谦逊时保持真诚和谦卑，它保护着我，让我保持清醒。

So, that's how movement keeps me very honest and humble in the way that I view humility and in a way that protects me and keeps me yeah, it keeps me fresh.

我想短暂休息一下，感谢我们的赞助商Element。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Element.

Element 是一种电解质饮料，含有你所需的一切，而没有任何不必要的成分。

Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't.

这意味着它含有适量的电解质，如钠、镁和钾，但不含糖。

That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium in the correct amounts, but no sugar.

适当的水分补充对大脑和身体的最佳功能至关重要。

Proper hydration is critical for optimal brain and body function.

即使轻微的脱水也会降低认知和身体表现。

Even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish cognitive and physical performance.

确保摄入足够的电解质也很重要。

It's also important that you get adequate electrolytes.

电解质如钠、镁和钾对身体所有细胞的功能至关重要，尤其是神经元或神经细胞。

The electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium are vital for functioning of all the cells in your body, especially your neurons or your nerve cells.

将 Element 溶解在水中饮用，可以轻松确保你获得充足的水分和电解质。

Drinking Element dissolved in water makes it very easy to ensure that you're getting adequate hydration and adequate electrolytes.

为了确保我摄入足够的水分和电解质，我每天早上起床后，将一包 Element 溶解在约 480 到 960 毫升的水中，并在早晨第一时间饮用。

To make sure that I'm getting proper amounts of hydration and electrolytes, I dissolve one packet of Element in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that basically first thing in the morning.

我还会在进行任何体力活动时饮用溶解了Element的水，尤其是在炎热的天气下，大量出汗导致水分和电解质流失的时候。

I'll also drink Element dissolved in water during any kind of physical exercise that I'm doing, especially on hot days when I'm sweating a lot and losing water and electrolytes.

Element有多种美味的口味。

Element has a bunch of great tasting flavors.

我最喜欢覆盆子味。

I love the raspberry.

我非常喜欢柑橘味。

I love the citrus flavor.

目前，Element推出了一款限量版的柠檬水口味，简直美味至极。

Right now, Element has a limited edition lemonade flavor that is absolutely delicious.

我不太想说哪一个口味最爱，但这款柠檬水口味和我最爱的覆盆子味或西瓜味不相上下。

I hate to say that I love one more than all the others, but this lemonade flavor is right up there with my favorite other one, is raspberry or watermelon.

再说一遍，我实在无法只选一种口味。

Again, I can't pick just one flavor.

我都喜欢。

I love them all.

如果你想尝试Element，可以访问drinkelement.com/huberman或拼写为drinklmnt.com/huberman，购买任何Element运动饮料混合粉即可免费领取一份Element试用装。

If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman, spelleddrinklmnt.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with a purchase of any Element drink mix.

再次提醒，访问drinkelement.com/huberman即可领取免费试用装。

Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack.

运动训练有哪些不同的领域？

What are the different domains of movement practice?

当我提出这个问题时，我意识到自己正面临将运动过度细分的风险，比如力量、速度、爆发力、柔韧性——这个词我以前听过你用过。

And as I asked this, I realized I am in serious danger of fractionating movement into a list of words like strength and speed and explosiveness and suppleness, a word that I've heard you use before.

但我想，对大多数人来说，因为我们常常依赖语言思考，这些分类还是有一定帮助的。

And yet I think for most people, because we think in words often, some of those categories can be useful.

所以，假设我要开始一项运动训练，或者一个孩子要开始一项运动训练，无论是全天候进行还是专门安排一段时间。

So let's say I was going to embark on a movement practice or a child was going to embark on a movement practice, either throughout the day or for a dedicated period of time.

我应该考虑哪些类型的运动呢？

What are the sorts of categories of movement that I might want to think about?

爆发性运动、流畅性运动，也许你能为我们更全面地介绍一下这个领域。

Ballistic movement, smooth movement, maybe you could just enrich us with some of the landscape around that.

当我环顾四周时，一个反复出现的概念是独特的姿势。

One thing that does seem to appear for me when I look around is these concepts of unique postures.

我认为这同样适用于思维姿势、情绪姿势和运动姿势。

And I think this is true for postures of thought, emotional postures, and movement postures.

你看到一个人以某种方式运动，然后教他各种新的运动或技巧，但如果你深入观察并足够敏锐，你会发现他一生中始终要面对的，是同样的姿势——同样的思维模式。

You take someone who moves in a certain way and you teach him all these new sports or techniques, but essentially, if you look deeply and you're sensitive, you see it's the same postures that he will have to work with till the end of his life, the same thinking postures.

这确实是个问题，因为我们没有让思维超越这种思维的框架，反而在放弃思维的内容。

And this is really problematic, where we are not freeing the mind beyond this scaffolding of thinking, and we are actually letting go of the content.

我们越来越关注思考的方式，而不是思考本身，比如习惯性的思考模式、联想性思维等等。

We get more and more focused on the way of thinking versus the thinking itself, habitual ways and forms of thinking, associative thinking, etcetera.

情绪上也是如此，我们构建了这些情绪姿势，然后余生都要与之打交道。

And emotionally the same, we are constructing these emotional postures, and then we have to go through the rest of our lives working with that.

所以，这就是阴暗面，对吧？

So, this is the dark side, right?

但当然，总还是有可能性的，我认为哪怕只是渗透进这个早期系统的一点点，比如5%、7%或其他任何比例。

But of course, there are always possibilities, both I think invading this early system to some extent, even if it's 5% or 7% or whatever percent.

而且，关于摆脱所有姿态、与你现有的姿态共处，但朝向一种更少依赖姿态的方式去行动。

And also on the freeing yourself of going beyond all postures period, working with the postures you have, but towards a posture less way of doing things.

所以，当人们在进行动作训练时，这是一件很有趣的事：最终他们能够进入动作本身，魔法就开始发生，技巧随之瓦解，某种东西浮现出来，这是一种质变。

So, this is something interesting to work when people work with movements, but finally are able to go into movement and this magic starts to happen, and then the techniques fall apart and something appears, and it's a phase change.

这是一个关键的瞬间。

It's a binary moment.

那里确实存在一个跃迁。

There is a jump there for sure.

在思维、情感以及其他方面，这种现象都非常罕见，我们为此赋予了许多名称，有人称之为觉悟，有人则谈论与之相关的各种过程。

And it's very rare to see both in thinking and emotionally and other ways, we have many names for it and some talk about enlightenment and some talk about all kinds of processes related to it.

我认为，这些大多只是阳光的影子，而非阳光本身。

And I think most of them are shadows of the sun, but it's not the sun itself, really.

是的，对自由度的探索，正是真正进步与技能拓展出现的地方。

Yeah, that exploration of degrees of freedom is where the opportunity for real advancement and expansion of skill shows up.

据我所知，人们通常描述的过程是：从不熟练到熟练，然后是精通，再往上是一个极少数人能抵达的顶层——那就是卓越，此时实践者主动重新引入变化与偶然性，将其作为创造真正新事物的契机。

I think the way it's been described to me is that we go from unskilled to skilled, and then there's mastery, and then there's this top tier, which is this beautiful thin layer that so few people occupy, which is virtuosity, in which the practitioner invites variability and chance back in as an opportunity to do truly new things.

只要你还在这袖子里，你就仍在实现你目标的界限之内。

As long as you're not out of this sleeve, you're still within the boundaries of achieving the result that you're after.

然后，所有这些内部元素都在不断调整，以让你留在袖子里。

And then there is all this adaptation of all these elements inside to keep you in the sleeve.

这袖子并没有像我们曾经以为的那样受限，哦，精妙的技术。

The sleeve is not constricted as we once thought, Oh, beautiful technique.

条条大路通罗马。

There are many ways to skin a cat.

这种经验和多样性、丰富性，都融入了精湛技艺之中。

And that experience and that variety, that diversity goes into virtuosity.

这才是真正的自由，因为你的注意力放在了正确的事情上。

It's true freedom because your focus is on the right thing.

不要指着月亮，却盯着你的手指。

You don't point at the moon, look at your finger.

对我而言，这本质上就是成为一位大师，比如所谓的精通，如果真有这种东西的话。

And that's really in essence being a virtuoso for me, like mastery, let's say, if there is such a thing.

我想谈谈眼睛的视觉。

I'd like to talk about vision in the eyes.

我们拥有惊人的能力，可以调整视觉窗口的光圈。

We have this incredible ability to adjust the aperture of our visual window.

我们可以非常集中地聚焦，也可以非常广泛地聚焦。

We can focus very narrowly and we can focus very broadly.

当你开始一项练习，或者在练习过程中，你会采用一种固定的视觉聚焦方式吗？

When you begin a practice or, and as you move through a practice, do you apply a regimented way of focusing your vision?

你

Are

是

you

处于全景视觉中吗？

in panoramic vision?

你是处于非常狭窄的视野中，还是完全取决于情况？

Are you in a very narrow field of view or does it entirely depend?

对于像我这样真正的初学者来说，我应该如何在练习中运用我的视力？

And for the person who's a true beginner, true novice like myself, how should I show up to the practice with my eyes?

我们的实际眼球运动远没有自己想象的那么多。

We do not move the eyes as well as we think we do.

因为只要你能看见并移动眼睛，人们就从不认为它可以通过训练得到提升等等。

Because as long as you can see and move the eyes, people never think about it, that it can be trained, that it can be improved, etcetera.

而这种训练的效果是深远的。

And the effects of it are far reaching.

眼睛引导着内在之眼。

The eyes lead to the inner eye.

你可以用一种美妙的隐喻方式来理解它。

You can think of it in a beautiful metaphorical way.

它代表了我们运用各种认知和思维过程的方式，当然也影响着身体。

And it's a representation of the way that we use various cognitive and mind processes, and also of course affect the body.

例如，当你教拳击手如何闪避时，通常的做法并不是我认为应该采用的方式。

For example, when you teach boxers how to bob, usually it's not done in the way that I believe it should be done.

他们从脚部开始教，因为他们认为——这个想法是正确的——你需要在动态的空间环境中进行练习。

They teach it from the feet because they have the idea, which is correct, that you need to do it in spatial conditions in movement.

但事实上，头部会为你组织脚部的动作。

But in reality, the head will organize the feet for you.

因为如果我现在把你的头往一侧拉，你的脚会立即开始调整到身体下方。

Because if I'll pull your head now to the side, you will immediately start to organize your feet under you.

这就是我会教人做这类动作的方式。

That's how I would teach someone something like this.

因此，这是一种非常有力的方式来应对动作，尽管并非唯一的方式。

So, it's a very powerful way to address movement, not the only one.

你需要开始建立一份清单，明确自己想要达成的目标。

You need to start to have some kind of a checklist of what you're looking to do.

通过这种方式，你可以开始调整自己使用眼睛的方式，就像我对待姿势、站姿，最终也像我对待状态那样处理。

And then by this, you can start to tailor the way that you use your eyes, the same thing I do for posture, the same thing I do for stance, the same thing eventually I do for state.

有不同的方式，没有唯一正确的眼睛使用方法。

And there is different flavors, there is no correct way to use the eye.

有时这种觉察是非常外围的、柔和的、开放的，有时则非常集中。

Sometimes it's very peripheral, soft, open awareness orientation, sometimes it's very focused.

注意，我在这里把觉察和专注这两个对立面拉出来，它们常常被混为一谈。

Notice that I'm pulling these two opposites, awareness and focus, which is often put together and confused.

而眼睛是进入这种状态最直接、最容易的入口。

And then the eyes are the immediate and the easiest entry point into that.

另一点是头部和眼睛的位置，比如当我们下颌内收时，似乎看得更清楚。

Another thing is the placement of the head and the eyes, like for example, when we lower our chin, we seem to see better.

当我们扬起眉毛时，头顶光源的光线会过多暴露，因此人们在远眺时通常会下颌内收；在许多情境下，人们还会将下巴偏向一侧，或像用耳朵倾听一样，根据具体情况使用某只眼睛或优势眼。

When we raise the eyebrows, there is too much exposure of top light sources, and so people would usually, when looking into the distance, will tilt their chin in, and in many scenarios, tilting of the chin to the side or placing, just like listening with the ear, placing a certain eye or dominant eye depending on various scenarios.

所有这些信息，我都可以通过理性思考来吸收，并推动我的实践进步。

And this is all like information that I can come in cerebrally and think about and jump my practice forward.

与其单纯让经验教会我，我选择用一种思考过程来提升自己，这并不算作弊，反而非常好。

Instead of just letting the experience teach me that, I'm using some kind of a thinking process to improve and this is not cheating, this is great.

在这些脑神经核中，存在两组独立的神经元集群，当眼睛向上看时，会提升我们的警觉水平。

There are two separate clusters of neurons in these cranial nerve nuclei that when eyes are up, it increases our level of alertness.

当我们的视线向下时，我们会进入更平静、更宁静的状态。

When our eyes are down, we go into states of more calm and quiescence.

当我们处于这种全景式的柔和凝视和广泛觉知状态，即我们所说的广阔视野时，控制这种状态的神经元通过一种称为大细胞通路的路径传递信号。

When we are in this more panoramic soft gaze and broad awareness, big swaths of visual field, as we say, the neurons that control that come through a pathway called magnocellular pathway.

无论如何，这些神经元的轴突更粗，就像更粗的电缆一样。

In any event, those neurons are much thicker, thicker cables.

它们传输速度更快，就像粗管道能更快地输送更多水一样。

They transmit much faster, just like thick pipes can carry more water more quickly.

在觉知模式下，你的反应时间至少是专注于某物时的四倍。

And your reaction time is at least four times what it is in this awareness mode than it is when you're narrowly focused on something.

当我们开车时，我们依赖周边视觉，反应速度要快得多。

When we drive, we're in this peripheral vision and our reaction times are much, much faster.

我认为你和我，希望我们能达成共识——如果我错了请纠正——探索这些不同极端以及其间的所有状态，才是真正价值所在。

And I think what you and I, I hope agree on, correct me if I'm wrong, is that exploring these different extremes and everything in between is where the real value is.

这里还有一个实用的要点，如果我可以补充的话：由于我们的文化更倾向于推动我们专注于焦点，比如眼睛的聚焦使用、主要的语言阅读等，我们较少有机会去练习这种开放的全景式视觉。

Another pragmatic bit here, if I can offer is, since our culture has been more geared and pushing us towards focus, the focus use of the eyes and primary language reading and other things, we have less opportunities to work with the more open panoramic one.

所以，明智的做法是稍微平衡一下这些方面。

So, would be smart to start to balance things out a bit more.

当你身处大自然时，你不会盯着每一片叶子看，一切都在移动，你完全沉浸其中，然后某样东西吸引了你的注意——哦，是一只鸟。

When you're in nature, you don't look at each leaf, everything is moving and you are kind of immersed in that, and then something attracts your attention, oh, it's a bird.

你集中注意力，然后又回到一般状态，也就是开放的觉知状态。

And you focus and you go back into the general state, the basic state, which is open awareness.

在现代文化中，我们把顺序颠倒了：我们大部分时间都处于专注状态，偶尔才会走神，这或许是一种源自内心深处的平衡机制，我不确定，也许你能分享一些相关信息，但我看到，在我们的生活中，专注被过度使用了。

Here, we switch things around in our modern culture, we are mostly focused, and then we sometimes daydream, which is maybe some kind of a balancing act that comes from deep within, I don't know, maybe you can share some information about that, but I see that many time people need to, the focus is overly done by far in our lives.

之前你提到过听觉注意力的范围，这是我们练习中可以探索的另一种感官。

Earlier, you mentioned the cone of auditory attention, the other sense that we can play with in our practice.

当你进入练习时，你的听觉处于什么状态？

Where is your hearing when you approach your practice?

还有另一组参数值得思考、尝试和觉察，我观察到有些人更擅长使用这套系统或那套系统。

Another set of parameters to think about and to play with and to be aware of, I have the experience that some people are better at using this system or that system.

你会惊讶地发现，同样的外在结果，不同练习者和不同情境下实现的方式竟如此不同。

And you would be amazed how differently the same results, seemingly outside results are done by different practitioners and different scenarios.

这涉及到变化与演变的理念。

This goes into this mutation and change idea.

我们的文化、实践和成功正让我们彼此越来越接近。

All of our culture and practices and success puts us closer and closer to each other.

因此，世界各地的观点正变得越来越相似，差异越来越少，但真正的希望来自于差异。

So we have the same opinions everywhere around the world becoming more and more the same, less and less different, but the real hope comes from the different.

我们很难推广这一点。

We have a difficulty promoting that.

因此，通过正确的实践，这一点是可以被推广的——比如，我曾与企业合作，甚至以前也与政府合作过，通过在工作日、儿童教育或公司中引入一些简单的习惯，带来一些新鲜感，提高生产力——我其实并不在乎生产力，我在这里只是为了提供我认为重要的东西。

And so, this is another thing that can be promoted with the right practices, the right, for example, I work with corporates or even worked with governments before, to bring in some of that freshness with simple habits in the workday or in the education of children or in companies, increasing productivity, I don't really give a fuck, but I'm there to give what I view is important.

也许它能提升生产力，但对我来说，更重要的是它能改善参与者的日常生活。

And what is important maybe increases productivity, but it's more important to me that it improves people's lives who are involved.

想到这里，人们使用听觉的方式、倾听的方式，我们还可以讨论头部的位置和姿势，有时还包括角度，比如更明显的低头角度，有些人会利用耳朵的形状，耳朵靠前或靠后的不同人——如果你非常敏锐并仔细观察，你会发现这影响着人们的动作，甚至影响我们的面部形态，比如声带的发育和说话方式会彻底改变我们的外貌，但我们的倾听方式也同样如此。

Thinking about here, the way that people use their ears, the way that people use listening, again, we can talk about placement of the head and posture, sometimes angling as well, sharper angle, chin down, some people tend to use the shape of the ear, people with different ears closer or further out, if you're very sensitive and you're looking around, you would see this is affecting people's motion, even the shape of our face, like the development of the vocal cords and speaking will totally change how we look, but how we listen also will do the same.

人们甚至会想办法让自己的耳朵变得更大。

Well, people will even make their ears bigger.

我的意思是，很多人并不知道，我们这样做其实是为了捕捉更多的声波，对吧？

Mean, I a lot of people don't realize that's actually why we do this, is to capture more sound waves, right?

声音定位基于脑干对双耳时间差的简单计算，大脑会直觉地知道，因为这是一个高度固化的神经回路：如果声音先到达这只耳朵，再到达另一只耳朵，那它很可能来自这边。

The localization of sound is based on a simple brainstem calculation of interaural time differences, the time in which something, the brain intuitively, it just knows, because it's a pretty hardwired circuit, that if a sound arrives first to this ear, then that ear, that it's likely coming from over here.

而如果声音正来自正中央，就会同时到达两只耳朵。

Whereas if it's dead center, it arrives at the two at the same time.

当听到这个解释时，几乎简单得令人难以置信——当然我不是在玩双关语——但这种思维方式对于理解身体结构如何改变我们的体验，却极为宝贵。

It's almost ridiculously simple when one hears it, no pun intended, but it is an incredibly valuable way of thinking about how the architecture of the body changes our experience.

当我看到人们走路时，我会想，哇，他们真的走得很奇怪。

When I see people walking, I think, wow, they really move in a strange way.

人们有不同的体型和身材，比如躯干短、手臂长等等。

People come in different shapes and sizes, short torsos, long arms, etcetera.

你认为，如果一个人的体型更适合某种特定的运动方式而不适合其他方式，他是否应该有意识地尝试在那种略带摩擦和挑战的边缘运动，以塑造新的可能性？

Do you think that if people have a body type that facilitates certain kinds of movement and not others, that they should intentionally try and move in the way that is right at the edge of the kind of friction and challenge in order to shape new possibilities?

还是说，他们应该顺应最自然、最顺畅的运动方式？

Or do you think that they should lean into the smooth execution of what comes most naturally to them?

是的，我认为一个好的做法是多散步。

Yeah, I think a good practice is to have many walks.

走路与很多情绪有关，比如我走进一场商务会议时的步态，或者我从糟糕情境中离开时的步态。

There is a lot of emotional things related to walk, like how I'm walking into a business meeting or how I'm walking out of a bad situation.

那里有很多值得研究的美妙之处，你可以亲自尝试：用略微低垂的下巴、笔直而高效地直线接近某人，或者从侧面以更圆润的方式接近，微微倾斜头部，你会发现完全不同的结果，完全不同的非语言交流在人们之间发生。

There is a lot of beautiful things to research there, practically with yourself, trying to approach someone with the chin slightly down, very linear, very efficient in the straightest line, or trying to approach someone a little bit more rounded from the side and tilting your head and you will see totally different results, totally different communication that happens over people's heads.

但如果你足够敏锐，就会意识到：哇，这扇门被打开了，而这正是你approach的一部分，你可以影响它。

But if you're sensitive, you realize that, wow, this opened the door, but it's part of the approach, you can affect that.

所以，这是值得去探索和实践的，当然还有身体比例和方式，我们所有的技术性介入——数学、三角学和建筑学——都侵入了我们的身体，侵入了我们的神经系统。

So, this is something to play with and to work with, and then you have of course, body proportions and ways, and we have all these like technical invasions, mathematics and trigonometry and architecture, they invaded our bodies, they invaded our nervous system.

现在我们的走路和身体实践看起来都是线性而高效的，两点之间的路径是直线，但其实不是，这是生物力学，而不是机械力学。

And now our walk and our physical practices, they look linear and efficient, the path between two points is a straight line, it's not, this is biomechanics, it's not mechanics.

那里没有什么是固定不变的，没有教条。

Nothing there is given, there's no gospel.

所以，走路有时需要绕行，或左右摇摆，有缠绕与舒展，也有身体各部分的移动。

So, the walk is sometimes have to go around or sway from side to side, and there is coiling, uncoiling, and there are moving bits.

那我的呼吸与走路如何协调呢？

And what about the coordination of my breathing with my walk?

因为如果我走得太直线，空气自然吸入呼出的泵送效果就会减弱。

Because if I walk too linearly, there is less pumping of the air naturally in and out.

所以我不得不强行吸气呼气，这样很浪费。

So, now I have to forcefully bring it in and out, I'm wasteful.

因此，近年来你看到那些顶尖的长跑运动员做了些我们从未想过可能的事，比如足内翻等各种动作，我们以往的技术认知完全错了。

And that's why you see in last years, these incredible runners, especially in long distance, doing things we never thought were possible, pronation and all kinds of things like our technical thoughts were totally misguided and wrong.

有人以一种我们认为完全错误的方式去做，却取得了我们永远无法达到的效果。

And somebody comes in and does it in some way that is totally wrong and he gets results we could never get.

这正是游戏精神、实验、改变和与众不同之处的美妙所在。

And that's the beauty of playfulness, experimentation, change, being different.

如果你是《胡伯曼实验室播客》的常驻听众，你肯定听过我谈论维生素、矿物质和益生菌饮品AG1。

If you're a regular listener of the Huberman Lab Podcast, you've no doubt heard me talk about the vitamin mineral probiotic drink AG1.

如果你还在犹豫要不要尝试，现在正是绝佳的时机。

And if you've been on the fence about it, now's an awesome time to give it a try.

在未来几周内，AG1将为首次订阅AG1的用户免费赠送全套补充剂。

For the next few weeks, AG1 is giving away a full supplement package with your first subscription to AG1.

他们将免费赠送一瓶维生素D3K2、一瓶Omega-3鱼油胶囊，以及全新睡眠配方AGZ的试用装——顺便说一句，这现在是我唯一服用的睡眠补充剂。

They're giving away a free bottle of vitamin D3K2, a bottle of omega-three fish oil capsules, and a sample pack of the new sleep formula AGZ, which by the way is now the only sleep supplement I take.

效果太棒了，我服用AGZ后的睡眠质量好得不可思议。

It's fantastic, my sleep on AGZ is out of this world good.

AGZ是一种饮品，因此无需服用大量药片。

AGZ is a drink, so it eliminates the need to take a lot of pills.

味道非常好。

It tastes great.

正如我所说，它让我睡得非常好，醒来时比以往任何时候都更精神焕发。

And like I said, it has me sleeping incredibly well, waking up more refreshed than ever.

我非常喜欢它。

I absolutely love it.

再次强调，这是限时优惠，请立即前往drinkag1.com/huberman开始体验。

Again, this is a limited time offer, so make sure to go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started today.

我最喜爱的神经科学家之一，他来自芝加哥大学。

One of my favorite neuroscientists, he's out of the University of Chicago.

他说，进化的主要任务之一，就是让现有的细胞类型和神经回路获得新的功能。

He said, One of the major jobs of evolution is to take existing cell types and circuits and give them new functions.

但这只能通过 playful 探索新可能性来实现，我认为这与你所说的非常契合。

But that can only be done through the playful exploration of new possibilities, which I think maps very well to what you're saying.

在技术执行的极端阈值上，当 mastery、mastery、mastery 达到极致时，你的表现当然非常出色，但体育、音乐、舞蹈或智力活动本身进化的空间却很有限，因为你没有引入变异性。

That at the extreme thresholds of technical execution, mastery, mastery, mastery, you're obviously performance is very high, but the opportunity for evolution of the sport or the music or the dance or the intellectual endeavor is limited because you're not introducing variability.

为了追求完美的执行，你实际上是在限制自己。

In the attempt to get proper execution, you're limiting oneself.

我们是地球上最擅长即兴发挥的生物，

We are the biggest improvisers around,

这正是塑造了我们的本质，想想我们能用它做到的事情，简直不可思议。

like that's what made us who we are, think, and this is incredible what we can do with it.

这种开放性是我们人类必须保持的特质，也许我们的领导者也应当少一些专家式的专精，而更多地拥抱这种开放性——不必在某一方面特别擅长，却能更全面地应对整体。

And there is something about this openness that we humans need to keep and also maybe something for our leaders to be more of less specialist and more in this openness, less capable in this or that way, but more capable of doing the whole thing.

顺便说一下，我认为科学家们做得对。

By the way, I think that scientists get it right.

这是因为知识从科学领域传播出去时，科学本身有辩论和各种讨论，但外界却并不那么了解这些背景。

It's where you transmit the knowledge out of the scientific field because science have debate and everything, you're not so connected.

当然，这种情况也可能发生，但当它传到没有经验的普通人那里时，他们往往会把它当作不可动摇的真理。

Of course, this can happen as well, but then when it goes out and the simple person without the experience takes it more as a gospel, as a fixed thing.

而实际上，那仅仅是一份报告。

And then it was just a report.

对。

Right.

那只是报告了一些功能，然后去尝试一下，看看它对你有什么作用。

It was just reporting some functions here and play with it, see what it does for you.

因为即使我提供了所有最棒的信息，那个人也可能去审视它，却发现它根本对他没用。

Because with all the greatest information that I can give, the person will examine it and it might be not useful at all for him.

这是实践者的事——让它成为你自己的东西，去实践，尝试热、冷、光、运动，对这些保持觉知，对那些保持觉知，最终是否将其内化完全由你自己决定，但我们并不喜欢承担这种责任。

This is the practitioner, make it your own, go practice, try heat, cold, light, movement, awareness to this, awareness to this, and this is up to you to make it yours, but we don't like to have this responsibility.

不，人们更希望某种方法第一次就能奏效，并且比其他所有方法都更适合自己。

No, people prefer to have the, this will work the first time every time and will serve you best compared to everything else.

虽然有些工具比其他工具更可靠，但在我看来，最可靠的工具往往是基于我们与生俱来的生理机制，而不是某些我不喜欢称之为‘技巧’的东西。

And while there are more reliable tools than others, in my mind, the more reliable tools tend to be ones that are grounded in our innate physiology, as opposed to some, I don't like the word hack.

事实上，我非常反感‘生物黑客’这个词，就像我们之前讨论的那样，因为在我的理解中，‘黑客’是指为某一目的设计的东西被用于其他用途。

In fact, I loathe the word biohack, as we were talking about again earlier, because the hack in my mind is something that is designed for one purpose that's used for another.

这并不是对那个工具最高效的使用方式，也不是自然状态下最好的解决方案。

It's not the most efficient use of that tool, nor is it naturally the best solution.

而生物学提供了一些非常好的解决方案，但它们并不总是有效，也不是每次都能奏效。

Whereas biology has some very good solutions, but they don't always work, not every time.

今天早些时候，我们进行了一项涉及侵入‘个人空间’的练习。

Earlier today, we did a practice in which involved invasion, shall we say, of peripersonal space.

我们靠得足够近，可以触碰到彼此的躯干，而我们正是以此作为这项练习的一部分。

We were close enough together, we could touch one's torsos, and we were doing that as part of this practice.

你鼓励我留意：当有人进入你的个人空间时，这种感觉是怎样的？

And you encouraged me to pay attention to how does it feel to have someone in your peripersonal space?

然后是关于反应性的概念。

And then this notion of reactivity.

我知道很多人在面对面交谈时都会感到焦虑。

I know a lot of people suffer from anxiety just being in a face to face conversation.

有些人即使不认识对方，也会对与他人身体靠近感到非常焦虑。

Some people have a lot of anxiety about being physically close to people, whether or not they know them or not.

许多人容易产生反应。

And many people are reactive.

他们一直处于一种预期会发生什么事的紧张状态中。

They are in that anticipatory state of something is going to happen.

你能不能再多谈谈这一点？

Maybe you could talk about that a little bit more.

触碰、亲近感，这些在我们的生活中都占据了非常有限的空间。

Touch, proximity, all these things also taking very, it takes a very, I think limited place in our lives.

人们彼此之间缺乏触碰，也不够主动去触碰他人。

People are not touched and they don't touch enough.

根据文化和环境的不同，存在某些个人空间的‘气泡’，什么是合适的，什么是不合适的，再加上后来的政治正确、骚扰等各种因素，这成了一个问题，要应对这些复杂情境非常困难。

There is certain bubbles of peripersonal space according to culture, according to environment, what is right, what is wrong, and then came all the, of course, politically correctness and harassment and all kinds, and this is a problem, it's a problem to navigate all this scenario.

我认为我们确实正在经历某种痛苦。

And I think we are, there is definitely decide which is suffering.

亲近感，正如你所说，能够消除某些反应性，学会控制自己反应的‘音量’，在其他情境中彻底消除这种反应性，对于表现和我们的生活、清晰的思维都至关重要，因为一切都在我们身上流动，并被我们所监控。

Proximity, being able to, as you said, remove certain reactivity and to learn to control that volume control over how reactive I am, and in other scenarios, how do I remove this reactivity altogether is very important for performance and also for our lives, for clear thinking, etcetera, because everything is moving through us and is being monitored by us.

因此，一切都有可能将我们从某种探索方向上带偏，而如果你容易反应，你就成了奴隶。

So, everything has the potential to detract us from a certain direction of exploration, and if you're reactive, you're a slave.

情况会变得越来越糟。

It becomes worse and worse and worse.

比如，拳击手或足球运动员等，必须知道什么该接受，什么不该接受。

Or for example, a fighter or a football player, etcetera, has to know what to take, what not to take.

你能感知到更多，并不意味着你就应该对此做出反应。

The fact that you can sense more doesn't mean you should react to it.

通过让人置身于这些情境中，练习有助于这一点，但往往也同时消除了他们的戒备。

And the practice helps that by bringing people into these scenarios, but oftentimes disarming them.

就像今天我们近距离合作时，因为你有拳击或格斗的背景，我可以告诉你，你缺少一种非武术方式来进入这种空间。

Like when we were working closely today, and because you have a certain background with boxing or fighting, I can tell you, you are missing some kind of a way to be in that space that is not martial.

所以，你带着某种特定的语气，尽管你是个非常善良的人，但你常常无意识地用很大的力量抓住我，比如。

So, you carry a certain tone, although you're a very kind person, but oftentimes you held me without realizing you're holding me with a lot of strength, for example.

对我来说，很明显，你并没有完全意识到正在发生的事情，而这当然只是经验的问题。

And it was clear to me, you're not fully aware of what is unfolding and it's just, of course, a question of experience.

因此，能够在这种情境中做些别的事情，而不是以输赢或竞争为导向，而是像接触即兴那样，与他人互动玩耍——对于不熟悉史蒂夫·帕克顿作品的人来说，这就是例子。

So, to be able to be in this scenario, but do something else, which is not geared towards winning, losing competition, or just being able to play with another person, like for example, contact improvisation took that and played with that, and the work of Steve Paxton for the ones who are not familiar.

探索与他人在不同距离和空间中的存在方式，以及以不同方式被触碰，而不总是用同样的方式去定义这些体验，是非常重要的。

It's very important to explore many ways of being within different distances and spaces from other people and touched in different ways and not contextualizing it always in the same way.

我可以用一种方式触碰你的胸口，用完全相同的力度和速度，但它带来的感觉却会截然不同。

I can touch your chest in one way, I can touch it with the exact same pressure and speed, but it will feel very different.

这些参数——我不确定是哪些意图、哪些姿势或方式的组合——但这正是美妙的探索。

The parameters, I'm not sure, certain intentions, certain combination of postures or ways, and this is beautiful exploration.

而且，我再次鼓励你和其他人去探索那种不适感。

And again, I would encourage you and others to explore the discomfort.

例如，在某些情境下与男性或女性相处时感受到的某种不适，试着去理解那是什么？

For example, certain discomfort to be with a man in certain scenario or with a woman and trying to see what is that?

因为如果我们真正强大，就不会害怕任何事，这将极大地改善我们的文化。

Because if we're truly strong, we are not afraid of anything, and this will improve our culture tremendously.

当然，必须达成共识，你从不强迫自己，但你会遇到同样对这种探索感兴趣的人，然后你们以各种方式一起行动。

Of course, there must be agreement, you never force yourself, but you meet someone who is also interested in that exploration, and then you do it moving together in all kinds of ways.

有时是并肩行走，有时则是各种形式——可能是游戏、 playful 的，也可能是浪漫的，这其中有许多层次。

Sometimes it's walking together, but sometimes it's all kinds of, it can be game, playful, it can be romantic, and there are many shades.

性并不是从这里开始、到这里结束，对吧？

Sex doesn't start here and end here, right?

它是一个连续体，我们甚至不需要用这种方式去定义它。

It's like continuum and we don't even need to define it in that way.

所以，随着时间推移，我认为这会解锁很多东西，人们会在好的意义上变得更强大——在存在和成长的意义上，我们也会减少伤害，能够更自然地接触我们自身的其他面向。

So, with time, I think it unlocks a lot of things, people become much stronger in a good sense, in sense of becoming, being, and we abuse less, and we can approach, yeah, other aspects to us.

对许多人来说，他们通过力量训练、瑜伽或跑步来接触运动。

For many people, they approach movement in the form of weight training or yoga or running.

瑜伽稍微更动态一些，但仍然是相当线性的运动形式，比如Peloton和划船机。

Yoga is a bit more dynamic, but fairly linear types of exercise and movement, Peloton, rowing.

我根据你的一些教导开始做一件事，我自己提出了一个想法：不是静态地站着举重，而是在交替重复动作时走动。我突然想到，我从未以一脚在前、一脚在后的姿势做过哑铃弯举，也从未真正换过这种姿势。

One thing that I have started doing on the basis of some of your teachings, and I just sort of created this idea, is rather than statically standing there and lifting weights, actually walking from, as I alternate repetitions, it occurred to me that I'd never done a curl, a bicep curl with one foot in front of the other, and then I'd never actually switched that up.

并排站立、同时弯举手臂，这种姿势有点奇怪。

And it's kind of an odd stance to be standing in parallel and curling one's arm.

仔细想想，这种动作确实有点荒谬。

It's kind of a ridiculous movement when one thinks about it.

所以我开始融入一些这样的动作。

So I started incorporating some of that.

在健身房里，我会引来一些奇怪的目光，但我也回以同样的眼神。

You get some strange looks in the gym, but I just give them strange looks back.

你对这些非常线性的运动形式有什么看法？

So what are your thoughts about these very linear forms of exercise?

你会鼓励人们为这类运动拓展更多的‘游戏空间’吗？

And do you encourage people to expand the play space as it were for these kinds of exercise?

这确实是个问题，但是可以解决的。

It's definitely a problem, and it's approachable.

人们想要快速见效，想要捷径，想要糖霜，但根本就没有蛋糕。

People want a quick, people want a hack, people want the icing, there is no cake.

根本就没有蛋糕。

There is no cake.

这就像一堆糖霜，糖霜，糖霜，但到底是在什么上面？

And it's just like industries of icing, icing, icing on what?

你到底是在什么上面加糖霜？

What are you putting it on?

你本身就是运动。

You are movement.

你是一个动态的个体。

There is a dynamic entity to you.

身体是其中非常重要的一部分，它在传递信息；你有基因层面的东西，有因各种影响而形成和塑造的个性，但同时也存在某种本质。

The body is a huge part of it communicating, you have genetic layers, there is personalities that got developed and built around various influences, but then there is also some kind of an essence.

所以，我认为这些练习非常好，但它们并不是为我们认为它们原本要达成的目标而设计的。

So, I think these practices, they're very good, but they're not designed for the goal that we think they were designed to.

它们指向的是别的东西。

Orients towards something else.

比如瑜伽，有一本很好的书叫《瑜伽的身体》，这本书会颠覆很多人的瑜伽练习。

For example, yoga, there is a good book called The Yoga Body, which will destroy a lot of people's yoga practice.

它深入探讨了我们是如何走到今天这种瑜伽的。

And it goes into how did we get to this yoga?

受到了瑞典体操和蒙古柔术师的影响，西方文化对它的塑造，以及原本几乎与体式无关的古老练习。

The influence of Swedish gymnastics and Mongolian contortionists, the West affecting it, and then the ancient practice, which was barely asana related posture, position.

所以，实际上你说瑜伽原本不那么线性，但如今的瑜伽却非常线性，这些直线。

So, actually you said yoga is less linear, yoga is very linear these days, these lines.

看看所有传统的舞蹈，它们和瑜伽一点都不像。

Look at all the traditional dances, they look like nothing like yoga.

看看泰国舞、中国舞蹈、武术，它们都是圆润的、弯曲的，就像自然一样，就像你在自然界和动物运动中看到的那样。

Look at Thai dance, look at Chinese dances, martial arts, it's all rounded, it's all curved, it's like nature, what you see in nature and the movement of the animals.

那么，它源自哪里？

So, where does it come from?

这些都需要理解，因为它们现在正在塑造你，你正把自己置于这些变革力量和变革潮流之中。

These are things to understand because it designs you now, it shapes you, you're placing yourself in these forces of change and the streams of change.

你怀着良好的意图，只是想要这样或那样，但笑话却在我们身上。

And you have a good intention, you just want this or that, but the joke is on us.

对我而言，运动实践首先是教育。

And the movement practice for me is first education.

让我们开始思考这个问题。

Let's start to think about this.

我现在没有什么能撒一把魔法粉末就解决这个问题，因为这只是一个深入探索的开端。

I have nothing that I can just sprinkle now, some magic powder that will help resolve this because it's a start of a deep investigation.

让我们务实一点谈，因为你所描述的并不是你在卷曲时把脚放在前面，而是关于审视。

Let's talk pragmatically because what you described is not about you placing the foot in front when you're curling, it's about the examination.

这就是为什么这是一个非常好的方向。

This is why it is a very good direction.

然后你需要另一个动作，再另一个，别卡在那只前脚上，试着闭上眼睛或改变头部姿势，你会看到一些无关的事物浮现，因为联想思维——认为这件事关联到那件事——永远触及不到核心。

And then you will need another one, another one, don't get stuck on that foot in front of it and try to do with the eyes closed or with a different head posture, and you will see things arrive, unrelated things, because the associative mind, the thinking this relates to this doesn't get to the heart of it, never.

这是一种游戏式的做法，也是一种研究者的态度。

This is a playful approach and this is a researcher approach.

我不试图把自己的真相强行塞进某种框架，我在这里是为了观察。

I don't try to fit my truth into something, I'm there to examine.

我还没有明确的动机。

I don't have a motive yet.

为什么？

Why?

因为我很好。

Because I'm fine.

我不依赖它来定义自己，我是一个人。

I don't depend on that to define myself, I'm a human being.

但如果我没有这种价值感，我就已经倾向于：我必须做这件事，我必须证明这一点，我有这个议程。

But if I don't have that sense of worth, I'm already like geared towards, I need to do this, I need to prove this, I have this agenda.

这就是世界上所有谎言、问题和困难的由来。

And this is how we get all the lies in the world and all the problems and difficulties.

所以，这些练习都与此相关，为了证明这一点、那一点，为什么我们需要肌肉来做X、Y、Z。

So, these practices, they are related to it, to prove this, that, this way, why we need muscles for X, Y, Z.

很多报告出来的结果，常常来自我那些听起来很奇怪的地方。

And a lot of the reported outcomes are often from my places like funny.

我听说了一些事，比如你提到的感恩练习。

I hear about something like, I heard you say about gratitude practice.

如果有人试图感受感恩，只是闭上眼睛坐着，或者看一部电影，去体会其中的感恩，你会很清楚地发现，前者非常难，后者却很容易。

If somebody tries to feel gratitude, just sit with the eyes closed or watch a movie and sense the gratitude there, it would be clear to you, one is very difficult to do and the other is very easy.

因此，如果以这种方式更容易获得感恩，这就是它起作用的原因。

Hence, if gratitude is achieved easier this way, that's why it works like that.

尽管所有传统练习都强调你自己去挑战、去感受感恩，比如力量训练、其益处、荷尔蒙效应、对认知的影响等等，但当你稍微放开一点，走得更远时，你会看到某些东西——不是真相，但可能是更少的幻觉。

Although all the traditional practices are about you and by challenging yourself to sense that gratitude yourself, weight training, the benefits, or the hormonal effects, the effect over cognition, etcetera, when you open a bit and you go far out, you see certain things, not the truth, but maybe less delusion.

如果你没收到别人奇怪的眼神，那说明你还没走在正确的路上。

If you don't get the weird looks, you're not moving in the right direction.

你已经知道这个方向的结果了，至少这一点是清楚的。

You already know the result of that direction, let's say at least that.

当你带着微笑做这件事时，会发生什么？

What happens when you do it with a smile?

同样的锻炼，但当你皱着眉头做时呢？

The same workout, and when you do it with a frown.

太棒了。

Love it.

我觉得这是一个很棒的启示。

I think it's a wonderful message.

我一再听到你说的是，人们应该去探索、探索、再探索。

What I keep hearing from you over and over again is that people should explore, explore, explore.

在科学领域，最崇高的赞美就是我现在要告诉你的，因为这完全恰当——我们说你是‘单一个体’，对吧？

The greatest compliment that one can give in science is the one that I'm going to tell you now, because it's entirely appropriate, which is we say you're an N of one, right?

你确实就是如此。

And you truly are.

我认为没有人比你更愿意接纳现有的做法，加以改进，创造新的实践，并如此广泛地分享，如此乐意给予和传授如此多的知识。

I don't think there's anyone that has been as willing to embrace existing practices, evolve them, create new practices, and to share so broadly, to really be willing to give and teach so much knowledge.

你之前提到过，你的目标之一是既狂野又睿智，而我要告诉你，你确实既狂野又睿智。

Earlier you made the mention of your goals of in part of being wild and wise, and I'm here to tell you that you are both wild and wise.

因此，非常感谢你。

And so thank you so much.

非常感谢你。

Thank you very much.

谢谢。

Thank you.