嘉宾系列 | 安迪·加尔平博士：通过优化恢复实现健身与表现目标

如果我正处于休赛期，我不会侧重于恢复。

If I am starting the off season, I'm not hedging towards recovery.

我实际上更侧重于适应。

I'm actually hedging towards adaptation.

因此，我们不会使用这些方法，尤其是像维生素C和维生素E的组合这样的方式，有证据表明它们会抑制肌肉肥大适应。

So we're not going to deploy any of these, especially things like, there's evidence that a combination of vitamin C and vitamin E will blunt hypertrophic adaptation.

因为它们具有抗炎和抗氧化作用，对吧？

Because they're anti inflammatory, they're antioxidants, right?

其他研究显示，它们可能没有抑制作用，但也可能有。

Other studies have shown maybe they don't have an inhibitory effect, but they may or may not.

关键是，从概念上讲，你需要谨慎对待你想要优化的目标。

Point is, conceptually, you want to be careful of what you're trying to optimize for.

你必须提前考虑清楚，仅这一点就会决定你是否采取某种做法。

And you have to have that forethought, and that alone is going to dictate your decision making with whether or not, again, you get in the eyes, you do that.

现在，我们会介绍一些相对适合使用的工具，比如按摩。

Now, we will cover some tools, like massage that are pretty fine to use.

你不必担心这些会阻碍长期的适应，但其他一些东西你就需要非常谨慎了。

You don't have to worry about those blocking long term adaptation, but others you're to want to be very careful about.

你向我们阐述的这个原则是：运动过程中会发生一系列事件，触发适应反应，而这些反应在恢复期间会引发一系列变化，最终产生与触发因素完全相反的效果。

So this principle that you've laid out for us, which is that there's a set of events that occur during exercise that trigger the adaptation, and that sets in motion a number of adaptations that occur during recovery that then give us the exact opposite response to what the trigger was.

我再举一个心率的例子。

So I'll go back to the heart rate example.

心率接近最大值或达到最大值。

Heart rate is close to maximal or maximal.

如果你在短时间内——比如一周或两周内——多次这样做，你的静息心率就会下降。

You do that enough times within a short, you know, a week or so, or two weeks, and your resting heart rate goes down.

我记得几期之前你提到过，你的最大心率其实并不会发生太大变化。

As I recall a few episodes ago, you said that your maximum heart rate doesn't really change that much.

这是正确的吗？

Is that correct?

是的。

Yes.

好的，但你的静息心率可以显著下降。

Okay, but your resting heart rate can go down quite a bit.

是的。

Yep.

这是一个普遍的规律吗？

Is that a general theme?

意思是，像炎症标志物、心率，甚至压力这类指标，我们是否有一个大致固定的上限或天花板？当我们刻意引发压力、心率急剧上升或炎症标志物急剧升高时，我们是在降低下限，但上限保持不变？

Meaning, do we have a more or less set upper limit or ceiling for things like inflammatory markers for heart rate, maybe even things like stress, and what we do when we deliberately trigger stress, or a dramatic increase in heart rate, or dramatic increase in inflammatory markers, is that we are lowering the floor, but that the ceiling remains the same?

这取决于具体的指标。

It's very dependent upon the marker.

以最大心率为例，它通常不会改变，除了一个因素，那就是年龄。

So in the case of maximum heart rate, it will not change with the exception of one thing, which is age.

年龄增长会使它下降。

Age brings it down.

在大多数情况下，训练不会提高它。

Training will not change it up in most circumstances.

如果你看炎症反应这类指标，理论上可能存在一个上限，不过我不太清楚具体是多少。

If you look at something like an inflammatory response, I suppose theoretically there is a ceiling, though I'm not aware of it.

我现在就可以告诉你，看看像肌酸激酶这样的血液指标。

I can tell you right now looking at blood markers of things like creatine kinase.

还记得之前关于新陈代谢的讨论吗？我们使用磷酸肌酸作为爆发性运动的主要能量来源之一。

So remember the conversation about metabolism and with that we use phosphocreatine as one of our primary fuel sources for explosive exercise.

当我们使用磷酸肌酸时，记住，激酶通常是负责分解物质的酶。

Well, if we're using phosphocreatine, this creatine kinase, remember, kinase are enzymes that that function to break things down for the most part.

所以肌酸激酶就是分解肌酸的酶。

So creatine kinase is the enzyme you use to break down creatine.

当我们大量使用它时，肌酸激酶就会从肌肉中释放出来，渗入血液。

When you do that a lot, then that creatine kinase gets out of muscle and seeps into the blood.

肌红蛋白其实也是一个非常棒的指标。

Myoglobin is actually another fantastic marker, by the way.

肌红蛋白，你可以把它想象成血液中的血红蛋白，是负责运输氧气的分子。

Myoglobin is, if you think about hemoglobin being in blood as the molecule that carries oxygen around.

当它存在于肌肉组织中时，就叫做肌红蛋白。

When it's in the muscle tissue, then it's myoglobin.

Myo 意思是肌肉，它和血红蛋白是同一种球蛋白结构。

Myo meaning muscle, and it's the same globulin thing.

因此，你可以通过多个指标来观察肌肉分解，其中一个指标是运动后肌酸激酶水平升高，可能会上升五到六倍。

So there's a bunch of markers you can look at muscle breakdown, and one of the things that you can see is a creatine kinase level that's elevated after say, one bout of exercise, and and you might it might be up, you know, five or six fold.

我确实见过NFL进攻锋线球员的这个数值达到500倍以上。

I've actually seen this number in offensive linemen in the NFL be something like 500 plus fold.

所以，即使在同一类别的不同个体之间，这个数值也可能变得异常高。

So even within just one category to the next, that that number can get extraordinarily high.

而且，这里其实有一个重要的要点。

And if you know this is actually one important point here.

如果你关注任何机制性研究，或者用这些研究来指导你的决策，

If you're paying attention to any mechanistic research or you use, you're using that to inform your decision making.

你就必须极其关注变化的幅度。我的意思是，如果我做西方印迹实验，观察肌肉中某种信号蛋白，这个蛋白的激活是否触发了线粒体生物发生？

You have to be extraordinarily careful of magnitude and what I mean by that is if if I were to to be running a a western blot looking at a signaling protein in a muscle, did this activation of this protein turn on mitochondrial biogenesis?

当我看到我们给予的任何干预措施——无论是营养、药物还是运动——都会让这个信号蛋白增加20%时，我会直接认为这在生理上完全无关紧要。

And I saw that whatever intervention we gave it, whether it was a nutrition thing or a drug or an exercise, and I saw that that signaling protein increased by 20%, I would basically assume that to be totally physiologically irrelevant.

因为要判断这是否重要，完全取决于你所观察的指标，但有些指标，我可能需要看到四五百倍甚至六百倍的上升，才能确定这真的达到了我们所说的生理相关水平。

Because in order for that to be important, it totally depends on the marker you're looking at, but some markers I might need to see four or five, six hundred fold increase before I know that that will actually be enough to be what we call physiologically relevant.

而另一些指标，如果只上升了1%或2%，就已经具有相关性了。

Others, if they're up one or 2%, that is relevant.

所以当你阅读论文或浏览社交媒体内容时，一定要格外谨慎。

And so you really want to be careful when you're either reading papers or looking at social media stuff.

如果人们只是说某个指标上升了多少，这可能根本无关紧要。

If people are just talking about this marker increased this much, it may not matter.

它在生理上可能完全无关。

It may be totally irrelevant physiologically.

所以你必须思考，当你好奇为什么这么多人会这样时，

And so you have to, that does also if you're wondering like, how the hell are the all these people?

这就是他们如何稍微误导你的地方。

Well, that's how they can trick you a little bit.

有意或无意。

Intentionally or not.

可能他们只是尽力而为，但对这个领域了解得不够深入。

It could be just they're trying to do their best, but they don't really understand that area enough.

因此，这是一个需要关注的重要点。

And so that's an important point to pay attention to.

所以，再次完整回答你的问题，很难确定是否存在一个真正的上限。

So, to answer your question again fully, it would be hard to determine if there is truly a maximum level.

有些东西并不容易改变，比如血液pH值。

Some things don't want to move like blood PH.

它其实并不想发生变动。

It doesn't really want to move.

你可能会变动的范围，比如，是6.8到7.4。

The range that you're going to move from is, you know, like, 6.8 to 7.4.

如果你的数值上升到7.9左右，那你可能就陷入极大的危险了。

And if you get up to, like, 7.9, like, you're probably in big, big, big trouble.

其他一些指标则可能上升500倍甚至5000倍，因此这些标志物将真正决定答案。

Other things, again, can go up 500, 5,000 fold, and so the markers will really determine that answer.

将来某一天，我非常希望继续就压力这一话题展开讨论。

Well, at some point in the future, I'd love to continue this discussion around the topic of stress specifically.

是的。

Yeah.

也许我们今天稍后谈到刻意冷暴露时会涉及这一点，因为冷暴露确实会对组织产生直接的温度影响，同时也对心理产生影响，比如提高人对疼痛的感知程度。

And maybe we will get into that a little bit later today when we get into the use of deliberate cold exposure, because that certainly has effects related directly to temperature on tissue, but it certainly has mental effects in terms of raising one's level of perceived pain.

这很有趣。

It's fun.

太棒了。

It's so good.

有些人喜欢冷暴露，是因为他们在过程中感受到的体验，而有些人则只喜欢冷暴露后的感觉。

Some people love it, and some people love it for the feeling they get during it, deliberate cold exposure, some people only like it for the feeling that they get after it.

这和锻炼有点类似。

Not unlike exercise.

完全正确。

Totally.

我喜欢训练，喜欢锻炼，但我也认识很多人，他们讨厌锻炼，却喜欢锻炼后的那种感觉。

I love to train, I love exercise, but I know many people who, they loathe exercise, but they love the feeling afterward.

所以这将是我们会反复提及的一个主题。

So this will be a theme that we will come back to.

谢谢你能容忍我这个有点偏题的兴趣，我认为如果真有这种事的话，这是一个相关的偏题。

Thank you for indulging my interest in that semi tangent, I think it's a relevant tangent if there is such a thing.

如果你

If you

现在能让我们回到不同的恢复时间尺度和方式，因为我觉得我们正在走向如何更好地进行恢复。

can now return us to the different timescales and modes of recovery, because I think where we are headed is how to get better at recovery.

好的。

Yep.

我们来谈谈具体的方法。

Let's talk about the tools.

让我们谈谈如何测量和识别这四个不同层次的指标。

Let's talk about what to measure and identify for all four of these distinct levels.

第一层是我们所说的超负荷。

So level one is what we call overload.

简单来说，这意味着我今天进行了锻炼。

And just very quickly, what that means is I did a workout today.

超负荷的迹象和症状是你的疲劳感增强，即时表现下降。

The sign and symptom of overload is your fatigued, acute performance is down.

所以我刚刚进行了高强度锻炼。

So I worked out hard right now.

如果我现在去尝试一次最大努力，我的能力会下降。

If I were to go try to do a maximum effort, I would be reduced in my ability.

急性超负荷的恢复时间是几分钟到几天。

The recovery period for acute overload is minutes to days.

对吧？

Right?

这通常就是我们所说的急性超负荷，而这正是我们想要观察的，对吧？

That's generally what we call acute overload, and that's what we're looking for, right?

因此，我们的系统理论上应该能观察到这种荷尔蒙压力源，然后做出反应，恢复得更强、更好、更高效等等。

So we system should theoretically see that hormetic stressor, come back in response, come back bigger, better, more efficient, etcetera.

如果你像大多数人那样持续在这种状态下训练，比如说：我今天练了，有点急性超负荷。

If you were to continue training in that state like most of us do and say I did a workout today, I had a little bit of acute overload.

明天继续练，再增加一点急性超负荷。

Gonna work out again tomorrow, little more acute overload.

后天继续练。

Gonna work out the next day.

再增加一点急性超负荷。

Little more acute overload.

即使你中间休息了一天，这也没关系。

Even if you took a day in between, it's that doesn't matter.

对吧？

Right?

你只是持续进行这些急性刺激。

You just continue these acute bouts of insult.

然后你就会进入所谓的黄金目标，也就是我们所说的功能性过度训练。

Then you're gonna be pushing into the absolute golden target, which is what we call functional overreaching.

你已经超越了当前的能力范围，但最终带来了功能性效果。

So you have overreached what you can currently do, and it results in a functional outcome.

我们在这里所说的‘功能性’，是指表现得到了提升。

And what we mean functionally here is performance is enhanced.

而表现具体指什么，完全由你来定义。

And again, performance being whatever you deem it to be.

你更强壮了，肌肉体积增加了，线粒体功能改善了，或者其他任何你追求的变化。

You're stronger, you know, you've enhanced muscle size, your mitochondria has improved, you've whatever the thing is.

这不仅仅是体能表现的问题，对吧？

It's not just a physical performance thing, right?

太棒了。

Amazing.

功能性过度训练的恢复时间通常为几天，甚至可能长达一周左右。

Recovery time for functional overreaching is typically a few days to maybe even a week or so.

因此，我们通常看到的情况是，在比赛前，个体都会进行所谓的减量训练，即在一段短时间内减少训练量。

And so typically what we see happen is prior to a competition individuals will do what we call a taper which is a reduced training volume for some short period of time.

他们这样做的原因是，正如我们常说的，要实现这些适应性变化。

And the the reason they do that is to again, actualize is the phrase we hear is here.

这些适应性变化。

The adaptations.

所以你高强度训练了六周，理论上，你三、四、五、六周前做的训练，一旦让身体充分恢复，就会被真正实现，也就是说你的表现会得到提升。

And so you worked hard for six weeks and, you know, theoretically, the workouts you did three, four, five, six weeks ago, once you allow the system to recover, will be actualized, which means your performance will be enhanced here.

因此，功能性过度训练是理想目标。

So, functional overreaching is the golden target.

好吧，如果你已经处于功能性过度训练的状态，却继续训练。

Okay, if you were to be at the point of functional overreaching and you continue to train.

所以，这会进一步加剧，无论是通过增加强度、增加训练量，还是像你之前说的，有某些因素阻碍了你的恢复。

So, it intensified whether this is through intensity, this is through volume, or really as you said earlier, you had something holding back your recovery.

这其实并不重要，对吧？

It doesn't really matter, right?

这可以说是同一个观点的两个方面。

It's it's it's sort of two sides of the same point.

然后你就进入了我们所说的非功能性过度训练。

Then you would move into what we call nonfunctional overreaching.

你再次过度训练了，但这次是非功能性的，也就是说，即使恢复后，你也没有看到任何积极效果。

So you've overreached again, but now it is nonfunctional, as in you did not see a positive benefit once recovery allowed.

这通常意味着你需要数周时间。

This typically means you have weeks.

恢复需要数周，而且你基本上只是回到原点。

It takes weeks to come back from, and you basically just get back to baseline.

很多陷入这种恶性循环的人就处于这种状态。

And this is where a lot of folks are who end up in this vicious cycle.

所以你会想，天啊，我怎么就是得不到想要的结果。

And so you're like, man, I'm not getting the results I want.

我要更努力地训练。

I'm going to train harder.

我没有得到想要的结果。

I'm not getting results I want.

我会越来越努力地训练。

I'm gonna train harder and harder.

但因为你的恢复没有改善，你只是回到了原点，于是你训练得更多，又回到同样的地方，最终要么彻底崩溃，要么放弃，还是达不到你想要的目标。

But because you've recovery isn't improved, you just end up in the same spot, so then you train more, and you end up in same spot, and you end up then just either blowing up or quitting, and you're not getting where you want.

如果你继续超越这个阶段，你可能真的进入了我们所说的过度训练状态。

If you were to continue past that point, you may actually be in what we actually call overtraining.

通常，如果需要几个月才能恢复，就被认为是过度训练。

And that typically is considered to be overtrained if it takes months to recover from.

所以大多数认为自己过度训练的人，其实并没有。

So most people think they're overtrained are really not.

你只是可能处于非功能性过度疲劳的状态。

You're just probably nonfunctionally overreached.

再者，经典的区分方法是，如果你休息三到四天后感觉好多了，那你就不太可能是真正意义上的过度训练。

And again, the classic distinction is if you took three or four days off and you felt better, you weren't probably quote unquote overtrained.

你很可能只是处于非功能性过度疲劳的状态。

You were probably just in this area of nonfunctional reaching.

你需要稍微减一减训练量。

You need a little bit of a back off.

这种情况我确实遇到过，比如体操运动员、啦啦队队员和其他一些人，他们休息了一个月，但才刚刚开始恢复到基线水平。

If you, and this has been the case, I've had this happen with gymnasts and a cheerleader and some other things where they take a month off and we're barely seeing them start to come back to their baseline numbers.

在多个方面，比如情绪、训练意愿、睾酮与皮质醇比率、肠道指标、体能表现、垂直跳跃高度等等，都是如此。

In any number of areas, mood, desire to train, testosterone, cortisol ratios, bowel markers in a number of areas, physical performance, vertical jump height, like all these things.

他们才刚开始慢慢恢复到基线水平。

They just start to get back to baseline.

因此，真正的过度训练其实非常罕见。

So, over true overtraining is actually quite rare.

非功能性过度疲劳要常见得多，而且恢复时间也短得多。

Non functional overreaching is much more common and, it is a shorter time frame scale.

所以当我们谈论恢复时，我们真正关注的就是这四个方面。

So when we talk about recovery, those are the four pieces that we're really thinking about.

所以如果你担心，‘我怎么这么酸痛啊。’

So if you are concerned about, oh, I'm super sore.

我怎样才能不那么酸痛？

How do I get less sore?

我怎样才能在下次做同样的训练时不再那么酸痛？

How do I either not be a sore?

或者我现在已经非常酸痛了，该怎么恢复？

Next time I do that same workout or I'm super sore and now how do I recover?

这些问题都属于第一类——超负荷问题。

Those are playing in that first category of overload.

我们当然可以讨论如何判断这些问题，但简短的回答是：你得回头看看我们之前的节目，仔细关注训练量和强度的建议。

And we can certainly talk about how to figure that out, but the quick answer is, you got to go back to our previous episodes and just pay attention to the volume intensity recommendations.

如果你在训练中感到明显的损伤或疲劳加剧，很可能是因为你增加训练量太快了，或者有其他因素在拖低你的压力承受能力。

If you're getting significantly more damage or fatigue in a workout, you probably have increased your volume too quickly, or something else is dragging your stress bucket down.

但一般来说，这是训练的问题。

But generally, this is a problem of training.

你要么没有充分热身，要么营养策略有问题，这一点我们会在下一期讨论，或者你违反了我们关于逐步增加强度和训练量的原则，进展得太快了。

You either didn't warm up sufficiently, your fueling strategy is off, which we'll talk about in the next episode, or you violated one of our principles of increasing intensity and volume sort of too quickly.

如果已经过了那个阶段，你开始感觉总是精疲力尽。

If it's past that and you're getting to a stage where you're just like, I'm feeling beat up all the time.

我的能量在下降。

My energy is going down.

我就是感觉没有恢复过来。

I'm just not feeling like I'm recovered.

现在，我们进入了过度训练的阶段。

Now, we're in this overreaching stage.

所以我常讲的一个故事是，几年前，我正在做事，我妻子娜塔莎在车库里训练，我正在做别的事，她突然踉跄着走过来，眼神呆滞，眼睛瞪得巨大，摇摇晃晃地说：‘我搞砸了。’我问：‘你什么意思，搞砸了？’

So, the the story I kind of tell here always is a few years ago, I was working and my wife Natasha was in the garage training and I'm doing something and like she comes stumbling and she has this look on her eyes and they're like giant her eyeballs are giant she's like wobbling and she's like I effed up and was I like, what do you mean you like effed up?

她只是说：‘我把训练计划看错了。'

And she's just like, I read the program wrong.

她就说，我问你干了什么？

And she's like, I'm like, what did you do?

她本该每分钟做3次，共10组，结果她每分钟做了10次，共3组，结果彻底垮了。

Like, she was supposed to be doing 10 sets of three every minute on the minute, and she did three sets of 10 every minute on the minute, and she was absolutely wrecked.

之后几个小时她动弹不得，接下来几天她一直说，你得自己带孩子，我根本起不来床。

She couldn't move for a few hours afterwards and then for days, she's just like, you have to handle the kids like, I can't get out of bed.

我动不了。

I can't move.

所以这显然是个典型例子：我们根本不需要解决恢复问题，你就是个傻瓜，训练强度太大、时间太长了，这根本不是什么问题。

So, that was like a classic example of, all right, like we don't need to fix recovery here, you're just a dummy and you did the training way too hard, too long, like this is not, we don't have a problem here.

如果是这种情况，通常就是训练计划完全搞错了。

So if it's a situation like that, it's generally you just, the program was way off.

如果这种情况反复发生，你总是莫名其妙地时不时特别酸痛，或者训练表现特别差，那我们就得看看另一个压力来源，检查一下你的整体应激负荷，弄清楚那里出了什么问题。

If it's constantly happening, where you're just like, man, like for whatever reason, every once in a while, I'm getting really sore or having a really bad performance in these workouts, then we need to go to our other stress bucket, take a look at our allostatic load or allostasis, and get figured out what's happening there.

这些就是识别急性过载问题的简单方法。

So those are the easy ways to flag acute overload problems.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商Athletic Greens。

I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, Athletic Greens.

Athletic Greens是一种含有维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原的饮品，旨在帮助你满足所有基础营养需求。

Athletic Greens is a vitamin mineral probiotic and adaptogen drink designed to help you meet all of your foundational nutritional needs.

自2012年以来，我每天都服用Athletic Greens，因此很高兴它能成为本播客的赞助商。

I've been taking Athletic Greens daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're a sponsor of this podcast.

我开始服用Athletic Greens的原因，也是我至今仍每天服用一到两次的原因，是因为它能帮助我满足所有基础营养需求。

The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day is that it helps me meet all of my foundational nutritional needs.

也就是说，它涵盖了我所需的维生素、矿物质，而益生菌对我来说尤其重要。

That is, it covers my vitamins, my minerals, and the probiotics are especially important to me.

Athletic Greens还含有适应原，这对从压力、运动、工作或日常生活中恢复至关重要。

Athletic Greens also contains adaptogens, which are critical for recovering from stress, from exercise, from work, or just general life.

如果你想尝试Athletic Greens，可以访问athleticgreens.com/huberman来获取特别优惠。

If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

他们会赠送你五份免费的旅行装，还会赠送你一年份的维生素D3和K2。

They'll give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year supply of vitamin d three k two.

再次提醒，如果你想尝试Athletic Greens，请前往athleticgreens.com/huberman领取特别优惠。

Again, if you'd like to try Athletic Greens, go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim the special offer.

很高兴你指出了功能性过度训练、过度训练和已过度训练之间的区别。

I'm happy that you pointed out the distinction between functional overreaching, overtraining, and being overtrained.

我认为人们在思考生物学时常见的一个错误是，他们用名词和形容词来思考，而不是用动词。

I think one common mistake that people make in thinking about biology generally is that they think in terms of nouns and adjectives and not verbs.

太棒了，我非常喜欢这一点。

Amazing, I love that so much.

你知道，生物学是一系列过程的集合，具体取决于你是谁、你住在哪里以及你跟谁学习过。

You know, biology is a collection of processes or processes, depending on who you are and where you live and who you trained with.

过度训练是一种状态，在很多方面它是一个形容词。

Being overtrained is a state that in many ways is an adjective.

你过度训练了，我过度训练了。

You're overtrained, I'm overtrained.

这就像是说，我是美国人，我是捷克斯洛伐克人，或者任何其他身份，对吧？

It's like saying, you know, I'm an American, I'm a you know, Czechoslovakian, whatever it happens to be, right?

在很多方面，人们确实会开始将这些状态与某种身份联系起来，哪怕只是暂时的身份。

And in many ways, do start to associate with an identity, at least a transient identity.

他们似乎开始做出各种决定，关于哪些动词行为他们会参与，哪些不会。

And they start making all sorts of decisions, it sounds like, about what sorts of verbs they will and will not engage in.

而我认为，如果我们把事情看作是过程，并为它们赋予动词，那么我们就可以说：我正处于功能性过度训练，或者我确实处于过度训练，这只不过是一个程度问题。

Whereas I think if we look at things as processes and we assign verbs to them, then we can say, okay, I'm functionally overreaching, or I'm truly overtraining, which is just a matter of degrees.

没错。

Correct.

对吧？

Right?

或者就拿训练不足来说也是如此。

Or undertraining for that matter.

我确实在努力，但并没有达到功能性过度训练的程度。

I'm reaching, but I'm not functionally reaching.

这仅仅只是表现问题。

It's just performance.

你知道，就像神经系统不会改变，除非你给它一个改变的理由。

And you know, just as with the nervous system won't change unless you give it a reason to.

这就是为什么如果你能完美地完成某件事，或者完美地讲一门语言，神经系统就不会发生重组。

This is the reason why if you can perform something perfectly or speak a language perfectly, there's no rewiring of the nervous system.

我们都被灌输过这样一个谬论：每一次经历都会重塑你的神经系统，每一刻都和两秒前不同，这完全是荒谬不合逻辑的说法。

This myth that we've all been told that every experience rewires your nervous system, it's different now than it was two seconds ago, that's a ridiculous illogical statement.

我们知道这并不真实。

We know that's not true.

如果你的神经系统能够完成某件事，它就没有理由改变，也确实不会改变。

If your nervous system can perform something, it has no reason to change, and it won't.

肌肉也是如此。

Muscle's the same way.

这就是为什么你需要逐步增加负荷。

This is why you have to progressively overload.

你必须学习新东西，或者让肌肉挑战新的任务。

You have to learn something new or challenge your muscle to do something new.

这是同样的道理。

It's same thing.

所以，你提到的例子中，你妻子做的锻炼比预期要剧烈得多，她实际上已经功能性过度训练了。

So in the example that you gave with your wife doing this workout that turned out to be far more strenuous, she had functionally overreached.

在某种意义上，她可能已经过度训练，或者正朝着过度训练的方向发展，但错误在于假设她已经完全过度训练了，对吧？

In some sense, might've been overtraining or heading in the direction of overtraining, but the mistake would be to assume that she was overtrained, right?

这几乎变成了一种状态或身份标签，而不是一个动词。

As a kind of, it's almost becomes a bit of a state or a character assignment as opposed to a verb.

无论如何，都没有完美的方式来描述它。

And in any case, there's no perfect way to describe it.

你看，我们既在谈论名词和形容词，也在谈论动词。

See, we're talking about nouns and adjectives, and we're also talking about verbs.

但我认为动词真正根植于我们所进行的过程和可以采取的行动中。

But I think the verbs are really anchored down in processes and things that we do, actions that we can take.

因此，如果可以的话，我想强调一下这个观点：将思维从对自身状态或身份的标签，转向关注行动本身，对吧？

And so if I may, I'd like to just highlight this idea of shifting one's thinking towards verb actions rather than labels on the state that we happen to be in, or the person that we happen to be, right?

有时，人们在描述它时甚至会带有一种性格化的倾向。

Sometimes it even does become kind of characterological in the way that people describe it.

因此，我必须相信确实存在过度训练这种现象，也就是说，过度训练是真实存在的，但我们永远无法确切知道自己是否已经过度训练。

And so I have to believe that there is something called overtraining, that overtraining is real in other words, but that we don't ever really know if we're overtrained.

你一针见血。

You nailed it.

这并没有像一面红旗从你肩膀上突然冒出来，告诉你‘我过度训练了’，所以，我希望我们能开始思考一些具体的行动，这些行动能帮助我们以某种方式确保渐进式超负荷的实现，同时避免陷入这种性格标签的陷阱，比如突然决定需要休一个月之类的。

There's no, you know, it's not like a red flag, you know, shoots up out of your shoulder and say, I'm over trained, you know, it's, so in doing so, I hope that we can start thinking about some of the verbs, the actions that we can all take in order to ensure that we stimulate progressive overload one way or another, and at the same time that we don't fall into these bins of character assignment, where suddenly we decide that we need to do X, like take a month off, or something like that.

因为从我们的讨论中，我开始意识到，这恰恰是错误的方向。

Because I'm beginning to realize from our discussion that that's exactly the wrong way to go.

这些观点非常出色。

Those are fantastic points.

我想明确一点，过度训练并没有任何临床诊断标准。

I want to make sure it is clear that there is no clinical diagnosis for overtraining.

没有任何标准，也没有任何检测或血液检查能真正确认你处于这种状态。

There are no standards, there's no test or a blood panel you can pull that would actually identify you in that state.

所以，安德鲁，你在这里区分这些是动词而不是名词，这一点非常好，因为事实确实如此。

So your distinction here Andrew of these are verbs rather than nouns is is so wonderful because that is exactly the case.

我们唯一能事后诊断某人是否过度训练的方法是，如果你进行了数周的恢复，才重新回到基线水平。

The only way we could really come retroactively diagnose one with overtraining is if again we had you did weeks of recovery and you only got back to baseline.

所以我们无法在当下做出判断。

So we can't do it in the moment.

我无法通过一次测试来确定。

I can't take a single test.

没有任何主观指标能告诉你，你已经过度训练了。

There's no subjective marker or anything that says you are overtrained.

你很可能正处于过度训练状态，我们需要迅速逆转这种情况；或者在前一个阶段，你可能处于非功能性过度疲劳状态，如果你继续这样下去，很可能会进入一个新的阶段，即真正的过度训练，那时我们就需要重新调整了。

It is simply you are probably overtraining and we need to reverse that quickly or in the case of the step before, you are probably non functionally overreaching and if you continue to do this, you will probably enter a new stage where this is your overtraining and we need to come back.

因此，让每个人明白这一点很重要：没有任何一个明确的标志能告诉你，你已经到了这个地步。

So that's an important thing to let people know is there's no one thing we can actually point to that says you are here.

你不是一个名词。

You are not a noun.

这是一个动词。

This is a verb.

那么，我们可以使用哪些工具来增强恢复呢？

So what are some tools that we can use to enhance our recovery?

是的。

Yep.

让我们从急性超负荷阶段开始。

Let's start off with that acute overload phase.

换句话说，我刚做完一次锻炼，感觉糟透了，或者我两天前做了一次，现在浑身酸痛。

So in other words, I just did a workout and I'm feeling awful, or I just did one two days ago and I'm super sore.

我现在该怎么消除这种感觉？

How do I get rid of that right now?

在锻炼后，你可以立即做几件事，还有一些方法可能在一天或两天后更有效。

Well, there's a couple of things you can do immediately after your workout, and then others that are maybe more actionable a day later or two days later.

我们只涵盖其中几种。

And we'll just cover a handful of them.

我们将在下一期节目中讨论营养、补水和补充剂。

We'll do some nutrition and hydration and supplementation in the next episode.

我现在要讲的是不属于这一类的所有其他内容。

I'm going cover everything else not in that category right now.

所以有几件事。

So a couple of things.

第一，你实际上可以在当前训练结束时就开始启动恢复过程。

Number one, you can actually start kick start that recovery process at the end of your current training session.

我想我应该这样说。

And I guess I should say it this way.

我强烈建议你在训练结束后立即开始这个恢复过程。

I strongly suggest you start this recovery process immediately after the workout.

你之前提到过，必须达到很高的压力峰值才能引发适应。

You mentioned earlier about this idea of you gotta get a really high peak of stress to cause adaptation.

但我之前没有解释清楚，实际上你需要的是一个极高的峰值，但紧接着必须有急剧的恢复下降。

But I actually didn't explain that correctly because what has to happen is you need that extremely high peak, but you then you have to be met with an extremely sharp recovery back down.

所以，你知道，你之前在讨论神经可塑性时提到过，必须先有某种刺激，然后立即恢复，才能促使大脑发生改变。

And so, you know, you've talked about this before in some of your neuroplasticity stuff and in terms of what has to happen that cause the insult and then you immediately need to be able to recover to make sure that that causes changes in the brain.

这里的情况也是一样的。

Same thing happens here.

因此，我们需要一个强烈而迅速的炎症反应，但如果你不紧接着进行恢复，信号就会消失，无法最大化你的效果。

So we need a really sharp and high inflammatory response, and then if you do not meet it with an immediate recovery period, the signal won't be there to maximize your results.

那这意味着什么？

So what's that mean?

实际上你可以做几件事。

You can actually do a couple of things.

第一是听节奏缓慢的音乐。

Number one is actually listening to slow paced music.

有证据表明，节奏快的音乐可能会延缓你的恢复，而节奏慢的音乐则能促进恢复。

There's evidence to suggest fast paced music may slow down your recovery, and slow pace would actually enhance it.

所以，如果你在锻炼时从那种让你兴奋、提劲的音乐，换成节奏更慢、更舒缓的音乐，就能帮助你启动恢复机制。

So if you just change from, you know, your maximum get you up and get going music during the workout to a slower, lower cadence, that will help you kick start the idea.

类似地，你也可以使用我们所说的下调呼吸法。

Of a similar note, you can also use what we call down regulation breathing.

你可以将它们结合使用，或者单独使用其中一种，这取决于你的选择。

You could do them in conjunction or one or the other, whichever is up to you.

我个人最喜欢的方法是在训练结束后的三到十分钟内，躺下来，我希望自己处于这个姿势。

So my personal favorite method here is somewhere between three to ten minutes of finishing your training session, laying down, I'd like to be in that position.

你当然可以采用莲花坐姿，但我认为仰卧通常更有效。

You could certainly do it in the lotus position but I think laying on your back is generally more effective.

这完全是个人偏好。

Personal preference there.

没有科学依据。

No science.

我喜欢遮住眼睛，进入一个黑暗安静的环境。

I like the eyes being covered, getting into this dark, quiet sort of area.

然后通过鼻子以有规律的节奏呼吸。

And then just breathing through your nose in a structured cadence.

你可以尝试很多不同的方法。

There's a lot of different things you can try.

一个简单的例子就是方形呼吸法。

An easy example is just box breathing.

你可以想象一个方形有四个边。

So you can imagine box having four squares.

你要做的是，吸气持续三到八秒之间。

So what you're going to do is inhale for somewhere between like three to eight seconds.

然后，无论你选择哪个时长，都要保持相同的节奏。

And then whatever number you choose, you keep that same tempo.

比如说，如果你选择五秒吸气，那就会让你向上移动。

And so let's say you chose to do a five second inhale, That's gonna take you up vertically.

然后，在方形的横向部分，是五秒的屏息。

And then horizontally for your box is a five second hold.

接着是五秒呼气，再是五秒屏息。

And then a five second exhale, and then a five second hold.

你只需要在时间维度上重复这个过程。

And you just need to repeat that for the time domain.

说实话，我通常不用计时器。

I typically honestly don't use a timer.

你会注意到，很多人在这个阶段会睡着，或者几乎要睡着了。

You'll actually notice a lot of people will, like, fall asleep or get really close to falling asleep in this period.

你也可以尝试三角呼吸法，即吸气、屏息、呼气，然后直接进入下一次吸气。

You could do a triangle version of that where you do an inhale, hold, exhale, and then go right back into your inhale.

或者这里还有很多其他技巧你可以尝试。

Or there's a bunch of different tricks you can try here.

你需要多尝试，看看哪种方法最适合你。

You need to play around and see what actually works best for you.

十分钟可能更好，但如果你至少能坚持三分钟，那就足够了。

Ten minutes is probably better, but if you can just at least give me three, that'll work.

如果你真的非常抗拒，其实可以在淋浴时做这个练习。

If you're really, really resistant, you can actually do that just in the shower.

所以，如果你要结束锻炼，去洗个澡，再次闭上眼睛，在淋浴时专注地进行三分钟的放松呼吸，这将加速恢复过程。

And so if you're gonna finish your workout, get in the shower, again, just close your eyes in the shower, give me three minutes of focused relaxation breathing, and that will accelerate the recovery process.

我非常喜欢，尤其是因为我的实验室研究压力与呼吸，也就是正确的呼吸方式，以及两者之间的相互作用。

I love it, and I particularly love it because my laboratory works on stress and respiration, okay breathing, and the interactions between the two.

我只想提一下一项刚刚被接受发表的研究成果，应该会在本集播出时上线。

And I'll just mention a result that was just accepted for publication, so should be out by the time this episode you.

这项出色的工作并非由我直接完成，但发生在我的实验室里，正如我们所知，真正承担繁重工作的其实是学生和博士后。

Is the beautiful work of Not Me Directly, although it took place in my lab, as we know, it's the student of postdocs who really do the heavy lifting of Doctor.

我实验室的马利斯·巴尔博恩是一位杰出的研究员，他证明了短短五分钟的箱式呼吸——也就是你所描述的那种——即循环性呵欠式呼吸，效果显著。

Malise Balbon in my lab, he's a phenomenal researcher, that showed that a short period of five minutes of box breathing, of exactly the type that you described, were cyclic sighing.

即两次吸气后跟着一次长时间的呼气，直到肺部完全排空。

So two inhales followed by an extended exhale to lungs empty.

理想情况下，吸气通过鼻子，呼气通过嘴巴，不过也可以全部通过鼻子或嘴巴完成，但建议吸气用鼻子，呼气用嘴巴，或者吸气和呼气都通过鼻子。

Ideally, the inhales are done through the nose, the exhales are done through the mouth, although it could all be done through the nose or the mouth for that matter, but probably nose, nose for inhale, inhale, mouth for exhale, or inhales through the nose and exhale through the nose.

我们称之为循环性呵欠式呼吸，持续五分钟，这两种方式都能显著降低静息心率。

Cyclic sighing, as we refer to it, done for five minutes, both of those produce very significant decreases in resting heart rate.

随着时间的推移，它们会提高心率变异性等指标。

They, over time, will increase things like heart rate variability and so on and so forth.

因此，只要存在延长的呼气，似乎就能引发平静反应并降低整体压力。

So provided that there are extended exhales, it seems like the calming response and the reduction in overall stress occurs.

唯一可能产生相反效果的是类似循环性过度通气的行为。

The only thing that really sensings in the other direction would be something like cyclic hyperventilation.

没错。

Absolutely.

我

I'm

相信你已经观察到了。

sure you've observed that.

有趣的是，当我们让人进行五分钟的冥想时，虽然他们也在呼吸，但只是让呼吸自然进行，无论那五分钟内呼吸如何变化，压力的某些指标也出现了下降，但不如呼吸练习那么显著。

And interestingly, when we had people just do five minutes of meditation, during which of course they are breathing, but they're just allowing their breathing to progress however it happens to be in that moment, or moments across the five minutes, there were reductions in the same sorts of markers of stress that I described, but not as significant as breathing.

所以我非常推崇运动后的呼吸练习，我也提到了一些其他的替代方法，但我认为人们严重低估了呼吸在调节神经系统、缓解压力，或若想增强警觉性时的强大作用。

So I love the Brax breathing tool post workout, and there's some other alternatives there too that I just mentioned, but I think people greatly underestimate the potency of breathing for shifting one's nervous system function away from stress, or if one wants toward more alertness and stress.

我实际上对此有几个问题。

I actually have a couple questions for you on that.

当然。

Sure.

我想观众会很感兴趣。

I think the audience would appreciate this.

那些盒子持续了多久？

How long were those boxes?

是用户自行选择的吗？

Was it just user selected?

好问题。

Great question.

我们使用的是二氧化碳耐受性测试。

So, we use the carbon dioxide tolerance test.

太棒了。

Amazing.

为了让人确定盒子各个边的长度。

In order for people to determine how long the different sides of the box should be.

你之前的一期节目已经讲过二氧化碳耐受测试。

And you covered carbon dioxide tolerance test in a previous episode.

现在，我们可以在节目笔记的字幕中提供那段视频的链接，但正如你所指出的，这需要长时间的缓慢呼气，直到肺部完全排空。

Now, we can provide a link to that clip in the show note captions, but as you pointed out, it involves a long extended exhale to lungs empty.

当然，人们可以屏住呼吸直到肺部排空，但他们必须准确、如实地报告自己排空肺部花了多长时间。

And of course, people could sit with lungs empty, but they have to accurately faithfully, as we say, report how long it took them to empty their lungs.

我们以此作为衡量标准。

We use that as a gauge.

通常，如果人们在二十秒或更短时间内将肺部排空，我认为——我得回去查一下论文——但我觉得盒子各边的时长大概在两到三秒之间。

Typically, it takes, if people go to lungs empty in twenty seconds or less, I believe, I have to go back to the paper and look, but I believe that the duration for each of the sides of the boxes, as it were, was somewhere between two and three seconds.

如果他们的二氧化碳排出时间在二十秒到四十秒甚至四十五秒之间，

If they had a CO2 discard time of anywhere from twenty seconds up to about forty, forty five seconds,

我们

we

我们使用盒子的边长，我认为在四到六秒之间；而对于那些能够耗尽肺部空气超过一分钟的人，我们使用的盒子持续时间是吸气-屏气-呼气-屏气的时长，大约在七秒或八秒，最长可达十一或十二秒。

use the sides of the box where I believe between four and six seconds, and then for people longer than who could discard their air over a period of a minute or more, we used a box duration that is inhale hold, exhale hold duration of somewhere between, believe it was seven or maybe it was eight and as long as eleven or twelve seconds.

是的，这些就是你

Yeah, those are the So you

你会遇到一些真正的自由潜水员，他们经过专门训练，非常擅长这种事。

get your kind of free diver types who can really do this, who are really well trained for this sort of thing.

别太较真这些数字，但大致是这样的。

Don't quote me exactly on those numbers, but that was approximate.

这些和我们所做的完全一致。

Those line up exactly with what we've done.

所以我认为，时间上相差几秒并不重要，已经足够接近了。

So I believe it's going to be close within seconds of non important distinction is going to be close enough.

这太好了。

So that's great.

而且他们花了大约六周时间才

And that was, it took them what, six weeks before they

这项研究持续了一个月，然后参与者被切换到新的呼吸模式或冥想模式，所有这些都在自然环境中进行，正如我们所说的那样。

So did this study was done over the period of a month, and then they were swapped into a new pattern of breathing condition or meditation condition, and this was all done in the natural world, as we say.

他们佩戴着WOOP手环，记录心率、心率变异性、睡眠数据以及情绪等主观数据。

They were wearing WOOP bands that were getting heart rate, heart rate variability, sleep data, subjective data about mood, etcetera.

因此，我们收集了大量指标，但这项研究涉及的受试者超过100人，是在真实生活环境中进行的。

So there were a lot of measures, but this was more than a 100 subjects out in the wild of life.

我们尽最大努力追踪了生活压力事件、锻炼等情况。

And we tried as best we could to track life stress events and exercise and things like that.

但在实验室外，这些因素更难控制。

That was harder to control outside the laboratory.

所有这些结果都恰恰印证了你所描述的内容：那种包含有控制的屏息和呼气的刻意呼吸，能显著且迅速地降低我们的压力水平。

Really all those results speak to exactly what you're describing here, which is that deliberate respiration that involves controlled holds and exhales really has a dramatic and very immediate impact on reducing our levels of stress.

这太棒了。

That's wonderful.

我对你的发现一点也不感到意外。

I'm not surprised at all with your findings.

这一点特别有趣的是，你提到呼气部分主要负责下调作用，而这实际上与我们之前关于耐力的讨论一致，即在一般情况下，在非高原的静息状态下，二氧化碳的增加是驱动通气的主要因素。

And what's really interesting about that is you mentioned how the exhalation portion is primarily responsible for the downregulation, and that's actually goes back to our previous endurance conversation, which is that in general at rest at non altitude, increases in CO2 are the primary driver for ventilation.

因此，这通常意味着吸气与交感神经状态的增强相关，而呼气则与副交感神经状态的增强相关。

And so what that generally means is inhales are associated with an uptick in sympathetic state, and exhales are associated with a uptick of parasympathetic state.

这通常也是为什么人们会在进行极高精度的神经任务前，选择呼气并在呼气结束时完成动作的原因。

This is generally why folks will do things like exhale and finish that exhale right before they perform a very high precision neurological task.

所以，如果你要瞄准目标并射击，你会完全呼气，然后几乎总是在呼气结束时执行这一动作，因为那时你处于最高的副交感神经状态和最低的通气驱动力状态。

So if you're going to say aim at a target and shoot, you're going to exhale fully and then almost always execute that movement at the end of the exhale, because that's when you're in your highest parasympathetic state and lowest drive for ventilation.

我必须说，你们发现这一点我一点也不意外。

I have to say, I'm not surprised at all that you guys found that.

实际上，还有其他数据表明，经过耐力训练后，个体恢复到基础心率的速度，与他们从训练中获得的实际效果密切相关。

There's actually other data that point to individuals, particularly after endurance training, that can get back down to baseline heart rate is going to be correlated with who gets the most actual results of their training.

换句话说，如果你让一群人参加耐力训练计划，并测量他们在每次训练后恢复到基础心率的速度，一般来说，那些恢复得更快的人，在四到六到八周的训练结束后，表现提升会更显著。

Said that, if you take a bunch of individuals and put them through an endurance training program, and if you measure how quickly they can get back down to baseline after each workout, in general, those folks that are better at that are going to see greater improvements in performance at the end of your, say, four or six or eight week training block.

这其中存在一些因果和相关性需要厘清，但我认为足以说明一点：嘿。

And so there's a little bit of causation and correlation there that we have to untie, but I think it's enough to say, hey.

如果你投入这三种方法，在你的案例中是五分钟，它只会增强恢复效果。

If you invest these three, and in your case, your study was five minutes, it's only going to enhance recovery.

你有可能提升训练成果，而且我们现在还获得了额外的好处，比如能更恰当地过渡到下一项任务——去上班、见家人，或者任何其他事情，这为之前的经历画上了一个完美的句号：我让你处于高度交感神经状态的身体中，要求你表现并承受压力。

You have a likelihood of increasing your results from your training, and now we also have additional benefits like being able to transition more appropriately into our next task, going to work, going to see family, whatever the thing is, and it's it's a nice close to, I asked you to be in a high sympathetic state body, and I asked you to perform and to be under stress.

我为你提供了恢复手段，现在我们准备好过渡到下一件事了，这样我们就不会把那种运动时的能量带入下一项任务，而下一项任务可能并不需要你处于交感神经驱动状态。

I gave you recovery, and now we're ready to transition into our next thing so that we don't take that exercise energy, if you will, into our next task, which may or may not want me in a sympathetic drive state.

所以，如果有人在锻炼后感到肌肉酸痛，无论是局部肌肉群，比如腿部、胸部或躯干，还是全身都酸痛，这种情况有时也会发生。

So if somebody is sore following a workout, either locally sore in a muscle group or group of muscles, maybe in their legs or chest or torso, or maybe their whole body is sore, as it sometimes is the case.

他们可以使用哪些方法来加速消除这种酸痛？我想称之为‘摆脱酸痛’，但其实我们知道，这是通过多种机制来缓解酸痛的过程。

What are some tools that they can implement in order to accelerate the, I want to call it moving out of that soreness, but it's really, as we know, the alleviation of the soreness through a bunch of different processes.

有哪些最有效的方法可以对抗并消散这种酸痛？

What are the most effective tools to push back on that soreness and dissipate it?

是的，绝对如此。

Yeah, absolutely.

首先，这并不是乳酸造成的。

First of all, it's not lactate.

这仍然是一个非常重要但人们仍在谈论的事情，比如你24小时后感到酸痛，就必须做点什么来排出乳酸。

That's just a really important thing that we still hear people talk about is, you know, you're sore twenty four hours later, you gotta do this thing to get the lactate out of there.

正如我们在代谢相关的讨论和节目中提到的，乳酸并不是疲劳的原因，更不是酸痛的原因。

As we talked about in the metabolism, conversation and episode, that that is not the cause of fatigue, and it's certainly not the cause of soreness.

所以这并不是一个可操作的建议，但每当听到有人这么说，我就会感到烦躁，因此我们可以就此结束这个话题。

So not an actionable tip there, but just a pet peeve of mine when I hear people say that that I get irritated, so we can maybe end that conversation.

策略和工具。

Strategies, tools.

以下是你可以做的事情。

Here's what you can do.

你可以穿戴压缩衣物。

You can actually wear compression gear.

这会有一点帮助。

That will help a little bit.

有相当多的证据表明，如果你只是穿上一些更贴身的衣物，比如休闲服，或者如果你有的话穿压缩衣，确实可以稍微减轻酸痛的发生。

There's a decent amount of evidence suggesting if you just were to, you know, put some tighter fitting clothes on, leisure wear, or compression gear if you have it, that that can actually prevent a little bit of soreness from occurring.

所以，如果你像可怜的娜塔莎那样，意识到自己刚刚训练过度了，或者去和你的弓箭狩猎朋友玩了一圈，练得太猛了，突然意识到天啊，我待会儿肯定会特别酸痛，那你可以立刻穿上压缩衣物，并尽可能长时间地穿着。

So if you're in the case of poor Natasha and you realize you've just done way, way, way too much or you went and hung out with your bow hunting friend and you trained way too hard and you realize, oh my goodness, I'm gonna be very sore here, you can immediately put on compression gear and weigh that really for as long as possible.

压缩衣物有哪些例子呢？

What what are some examples of compression gear?

我见过有人坐飞机时穿着那种高筒袜。

I've seen people on the plane with those high high socks.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，任何你在运动时穿的压缩衣物都可以。

I mean, anything that you wear compression gear for what you do for exercise.

比如压缩裤、紧身裤，或者像你在柔术、冲浪或类似运动中穿的紧身长袖上衣，也就是防刮衣。

So whether these are just, you know, compression pants and leggings, the tight fitting leggings, whether this is a long sleeve shirt that's, like a rash guard you would wear in, you know, jiu jitsu or, surfing or something like that.

只要贴身就行，不需要其他额外的功能。

As long as it's tight fitting, it doesn't have to be much more than that.

你可以穿，是的。

You can wear yeah.

我想你可以买那种袜子。

I suppose you could get the socks.

这会很好，但我们通常告诉运动员，他们可以穿上长袖压缩衣和长款压缩裤，这些在训练时穿就可以了。

It would be great, but we generally just tell our athletes they would put on long sleeve compression shirts that they would wear for their training and then long compression leggings, and that'd be fine.

人们在训练后穿上这些压缩装备，还能获得一些积极效果吗？

Can people apply these compression garb after training and still get some of the positive effects?

是的，我没有看到任何证据表明这会阻碍适应性。

Yeah, I have not seen any evidence to suggest that that would block adaptation.

这种情况可能存在。

That may be the case.

如果真有这类研究，我还不了解，但我很清楚，现有信息表明它能略微促进肌肉恢复。

I am not aware of those studies if that happens, but I certainly know that the information suggests it can enhance a little bit of muscle recovery.

但理想情况下，人们应该提前知道，自己即将进行的锻炼可能会引起大量酸痛。

But ideally one knows if they are about to do a workout that could trigger a lot of soreness.

对。

Yep.

然后穿上某种压缩装备来缓解这种状况。

And then wears compression gear of some sort to offset that.

如果是这样，压缩装备是否必须针对你锻炼的特定肌群？

And if so, does it have to be local to the muscle groups that you're working on?

我问袜子的原因是，我了解到人们在飞机上穿的压缩袜是为了改变血液流动模式，而不仅仅是下肢，而是全身。

The reason I asked about the socks is my understanding of the socks, compression socks people wear on the plane is that it's going to shift the patterns of blood flow, not just in the lower legs, but all over the body.

是的，你可能还是希望将压缩装备用在实际锻炼的肌肉组织上，不过这确实是个好问题。

Yeah, you're probably going to want to it on the actual exercising tissue, though, actually, that's really good question.

我不知道如果只做了上半身锻炼，却只穿下半身的压缩装备，是否真的会有帮助。

I don't know the answer of whether or not you did an upper body workout, only wore lower body compression gear if that would actually help.

这是个很棒的问题。

That's a great question.

可能已经有人做过相关研究了。

It may have been done.

我不确定。

I don't know.

但我并不知道这个问题的答案。

But I don't know the answer to that.

一般来说，我们只是告诉人们，尽可能长时间地穿着整套压缩装备。

In general, we just tell people, like, wear wear the whole thing as much as you can.

我其实并不担心你在锻炼时穿着它。

I actually am not concerned that you're wearing it during your workout.

你可以在锻炼后穿上，甚至前几天只穿一点压缩装备也可以。

It is something you could put on afterwards or even wear just a little bit of compression the other day.

我们其实做了一个非常有趣的实验。

We've actually did a really fun study.

我与比尔·克雷默合作，他是康涅狄格大学的运动科学家，如果你知道‘比尔·克雷默奖’这个奖项，就能明白他的地位，此外我还与李·布朗合作。

I collaborated with Bill Kramer who's you know, sports scientist of the year award is the Bill Kramer award if that gives you an indication out of University of Connecticut as well as with Lee Brown.

所以，两位终身成就奖得主，我们让受试者乘坐飞机从康涅狄格州的斯托尔斯飞往加州富尔顿州立大学。

So, two lifetime achievement award winners and we we put people on a a plane in Stores, Connecticut and flew them to Cal State Fullerton.

这是一次横跨美国的飞行，一部分人飞行期间穿着压缩装备，另一些人则没有，抵达加州后，他们进行了一次训练，然后再次登机返回斯托尔斯，我想他们回到那里后又进行了一次训练。

So, a cross country flight and some of them got to wear compression gear during the flight and others did not and then they landed in California, did a training bout, put them back on the plane, went back to stores, and I think they did another training bout when they got back there.

那篇论文中产生了大量数据，但很明显的一点是，穿压缩装备的群体在应对长途飞行中与血液凝固及其他相关问题、尤其是运动表现方面更为有效。

There was a lot of data that came out of that paper, but one of the things that was clear is the compression group was effective at handling some of the blood related coagulation and other issues associated with long flights and particularly athletic performance.

因此，这其实是一个隐蔽的小窍门，我经常建议人们，特别是旅行中的运动员，乘坐飞机时就穿上压缩装备。

So that's actually a sneaky little insider trick that I'll use a lot with people particularly with athletes that are traveling is just wear that compression gear on the plane.

你刚才提到了这一点，这让我想起了那个研究，作为另一种有效的策略。

So you you talked about that and that sort of prung that study to mind that as another effective strategy.

所以压缩装备总体上都很有效，尤其是在飞机上。

So compression gear in general as well as particularly on a plane.

基本上，越紧越好，但显然不能紧到让手变紫或感到不适之类的情况。

Basically, the tighter you can get it, the better without obviously making your hands purple and being uncomfortable and things like that.

所以不需要过于紧绷。

So it doesn't have to be overly tight.

任何程度的压缩都会起作用，而且很可能有帮助。

Anything will work and probably help.

我个人在每次乘坐这样的航班时，也会尽可能穿上压缩装备，以便到达目的地后感觉好一些。

So I'm also doing that personally anytime I'm taking a flight like that as much as I can, just to feel a little better when I get there.

我们还可以用哪些其他方法来缓解急性肌肉酸痛？

What are some other methods that we can use to alleviate acute soreness?

如果我们继续沿着这个思路，也就是使用某种压力调节来促进恢复，

Well, if we continue down this same theme, which is saying, okay, we'll use some sort of pressure manipulation to enhance recovery.

压缩是一种策略，你还可以使用压缩靴或压缩衣，这些是气动设备，会泵入空气，反复挤压身体。

If compression is one strategy, you can also use things like, compression boots or garments, and these are pneumatic devices that will, you know, pump, air outside you and compress, back and forth.

有各种各样的设备可以实现这种效果。

There's any number of devices that will do this.

你也可以用手动方式。

You can also use the physical hand.

这就是按摩和身体调理。

So this would be massage and bodywork.

据我们目前所知，它们都是通过相同的机制发挥作用，即有效促进组织内液体的流动，同时可能增强血液循环，提高毛细血管通透性，从而帮助营养物质进入、代谢废物排出。

They're all really working as best we can tell on the same mechanisms, which are effectively moving fluid in and out of the tissue, as well as potentially enhancing blood flow, increasing capitalization, and which is going to only get nutrients in and waste products out.

因此，你可以根据自己的预算、偏好、可用性和时间安排等因素来选择适合的方式。

So you can kind of pick and choose based upon your budget, preferences, availability, timing, things like that.

所以这些都是有效的策略。

So those are all effective strategies.

除此之外，下一个最大的类别就是热疗了。

Outside of that really is the next largest category, which is now thermal.

到目前为止，在这个讨论中，我们提到了冷水浸泡，我也在关于肌肉肥大的部分提到过，你不应该在运动后立即进行冷水浸泡或冰浴。

And, and so far in this discussion, we've mentioned cold water immersion, and I talked about in the hypertrophy section how you would not want to do that immediately post exercise, which would be getting into cold water or an ice bath.

如果你的目标是增加肌肉质量的话。

If you're trying to grow muscle mass.

尽管如此，有充分的证据表明，冷水浸泡确实能有效减轻肌肉酸痛。

Having said that, there is good evidence showing that cold water immersion specifically is effective at reducing muscle soreness.

因此，这是一个值得考虑的方法，它很好地说明了生理学中没有免费的午餐。

So it is a fair consideration, and it's a classic example of how there are no free passes in physiology.

没有什么事情是绝对好或绝对坏的。

Nothing is always good or always bad.

关键在于你愿意放弃什么，以及你愿意获得什么。

It's always about what are you willing to give up and versus what you're willing to get.

在冷水中浸泡的情况下，你可能会想，是的，我可能希望获得一些肌肉肥大的适应性。

And in the case of like cold water immersion, you may be thinking, yeah, I might want some of the hypertrophic adaptations.

但如果你正处于训练的这个阶段，目标是当下最大化表现而非长期适应，那么冰浴可能是一个很好的选择。

But if you're in that phase of training where you're actually trying to push more towards optimization in that moment rather than long term adaptation, then a an ice bath might be a great choice.

此外，如果你像娜塔莎那样陷入一种情况，发现自己痛得难以忍受。

In addition, if you fall into a scenario like Natasha did and you realize like, I'm just so unbelievably sore.

这可能会让你损失三到四天甚至五到六天的训练。

This might cost me three or four or five or six days of training.

为了不错过这么多训练，花几天时间加速恢复过程可能是值得的。

It might be worth it for you to accelerate that recovery process by a couple of days so that you don't miss so much training.

所以，这只是一个算法。

So, it's it's just a it's an algorithm.

这是一道方程式。

It's an equation.

我追求的是什么？

What am I looking for?

再说一次，如果我正处于比赛季，或者正在参赛，又或者刚刚进行了过多的锻炼，感到非常疼痛。

Again, if I'm in season or trying to compete or if I have just done way, way, way too much exercise and I'm really in significant pain.

为了摆脱疼痛，你可能愿意放弃单次训练后一小部分最终的肌肉增长效果。

You would probably be willing to give up some small percentage of eventual muscle growth after a single session to get out of pain.

因此，在各种冷疗方法中，冷水浸泡显然是最佳选择，而不是冷空气或其他手段。

So, of the cold strategies, cold water immersion is clearly the best approach rather than cold air or some other tactics.

所以，普通的冷水淋浴在这里可能不够有效。

So, a cold shower is probably not enough here.

你真的需要进入中等寒冷的环境中。

You really do want to be either in moderately cold.

水温大概在40到50华氏度之间，持续十五分钟以上，或者在低于40华氏度的水中待至少五分钟，就能获得一定的效果。

This is maybe 40 to 50 degree water for probably north of fifteen minutes or you can be in sub 40 for as little as maybe five minutes to get some of the effect.

已经有不少研究支持这一点，所以我在这里是综合总结了这些研究，而不是逐一点评。

And there's been a number of studies, so I'm sort of summarizing a bunch of that kind of into one rather than going through them point by point.

你刚才提到的那些数值，我猜是华氏温度吧？对我来说真的非常冷，对吧？

The numbers you just threw out, which I'm assuming are Fahrenheit, really cold to me, right?

冷得不舒服。

Uncomfortably cold.

没错。

Absolutely.

因此，我总是建议人们循序渐进地适应，如果从未尝试过，不要一上来就直接进入35度的冷水。

So, I always recommend that people ease into it as a protocol overall, that they not immediately go to 35 degree cold water if they've never done it before.

话虽如此，一旦人们习惯了不适感，因为我总是被问到：到底应该多冷才合适？

That said, once people are comfortable being uncomfortable, because I always answer the question, how cold should it be exactly?

你是否同意，水温应该非常非常冷，冷到你真的非常想出来，但又能在安全的前提下坚持下去，无论这个温度具体是多少？

Would you agree that it should be very, very cold, so much so that you really, really want to get out, but that you're able to stay in safely, whatever that value happens to be?

你绝对必须保证安全。

You absolutely need to be safe.

尽管如此，我们在XPT静修营中，已经让数十人甚至上百人第一次就直接进入低于35度的水中，并且每次进行三分钟，重复多轮。

Having said that, we have actually in our XPT retreats put dozens, if not hundreds of people at this point, immediately into the sub 35 degree water their first time ever and done, you know, three minutes multiple rounds, in a session.

他们都能承受。

They can handle it.

但如果你不想这么极端，也没必要那样做。

But you don't need to that crazy if you don't want.

你得玩点策略。

You kind of have to play a game.

对吧？

Right?

你是想在短时间内忍受极冷，还是想在较长时间里保持适度寒冷？

Do you want to be really, really cold for a short amount of time, or do you want to be, like, kind of cold for a longer amount of time?

你唯一可能犯的错误就是用比如65度的水，对大多数人来说这并不够冷，却还泡上五到十分钟。

Really, the only mistake you can make is doing something like, you know, 65 degree water, which for the most people is not very comfortable and doing, you know, five or ten minutes.

这根本不会有效果。

It's just not gonna be effective.

这大概也不会有效果。

It's probably not gonna be effective.

所以如果你觉得35度实在太疯狂，想用55度的水，其实也有相关研究支持，但那些研究会指出，你很可能需要待上至少十分钟以上，有些甚至表明你需要待上二十到三十分钟甚至更久。

So if you're like, man, 35 is is absolutely crazy and you wanna do 55 degree water and there's literature in that area, but it's going to say you need to probably be there, you know, somewhere almost surely north of ten minutes and some of it will actually show you need to be in there like well north of twenty to thirty minutes.

所以，依我来看，我宁愿选择极冷的水，五分钟内搞定，不过这完全看个人偏好。

So, for my money, I would rather go really, really cold and get it done in five minutes but personal preference on this one.

你也可以让自己轻松一点。

You can also make it a little bit easier on yourself.

关于交替疗法的证据不多，但确实有一些。

There is not nearly as much evidence, but there is some, on contrast stuff.

也就是说，你先用冷水，再用热水，来回交替。

So this is when you go cold, hot, and sort of back and forth.

关于每次该用多久、做几轮、冷水和热水各该持续多久，目前没有明确的规则。

There are no really good rules in terms of how much should you go, how many rounds, how long and cold, how long and hot.

虽然有几项研究，而且这些研究确实用了具体数字，但这并不意味着这些数字已经被验证为最优方案，这两者有本质区别。

Again, there have been a couple of studies, but and obviously, those studies use numbers, but that doesn't mean those have been tested to see what what are optimal which is a very big difference.

所以，你完全可以凭感觉来调整。

So, you can really just kind of play that by feel.

热水有助于恢复。

Hot is good for recovery.

你得小心一点，因为这样会增加该部位的血流，可能会让你走出来时出现一些急性肿胀，从而对该部位造成更大压力。

You just have to be careful because you are going to put more blood flow in the area and so you you may walk out of there with some additional acute swelling which is then going to put greater pressure on there.

所以，你得自己摸索一下这种做法。

So, you have to kind of play with that.

我个人非常推崇用热敷来恢复。

I personally really like hot for recovery.

虽然当时可能感觉不太好，但第二天我通常会感觉非常好。

I will feel maybe not great in that moment but the next day, I tend to feel really, really good.

此外，如果第二天早上醒来时我疼得厉害、身体僵硬，泡个热水澡能大大缓解这种情况。

In addition, if I wake up the next morning and I'm really, really hurting and I'm super stiff, a hot bath will help that quite a bit.

所以你可以尝试一下这些不同的方法。

So you can play with some of those protocols.

再次强调，你并不一定要用冰敷。

Again, you don't have to do ice.

完全没有必要这么做。

There's absolutely no requirement to do so.

这只是一种选择，如果你感兴趣的话。

It is just an option if you're interested.

是的，苏珊娜·索贝格博士的研究。

Yeah, the studies of Doctor.

苏珊娜·索贝格-

Susanna Soberg-

当然，是的。

Sure, yeah.

这些研究并不是直接针对缓解酸痛或促进恢复的。

Are not directly aimed at alleviating soreness or recovery.

它们更多是关于通过储存棕色脂肪来提高热容量，不是那种肥腻的脂肪，而是分布在锁骨周围和心脏附近的脂肪，这些脂肪能在静息状态下帮助你产生体温和代谢等。

They're more about increasing thermal capacity by a storage of brown adipose tissue, not the blubbery fat, but the stuff around the clavicles and around the heart that help you generate body heat at rest and metabolism and so on.

她得出的那些数据，同样也没有经过所有可能变体的验证。

And the numbers there that she's come up with, again, have not been tested against all the possible derivations.

就像呼吸一样，我们做了五分钟的练习，但谁知道呢，也许一分钟也会有同样的效果。

Just like with breathing, we did five minute sessions, but who knows, maybe a minute would have been equally effective.

我们只是受限于这类研究的条件。

We just, there are constraints on these sorts of studies.

但她得出的数值似乎是一个很好的阈值，能确保热和冷刺激触发适应性反应：每周总共57分钟的不适但安全的热暴露（比如桑拿），可以一次性完成，也可以在同一天或不同天分几次完成；以及每周11分钟的冷暴露，可以一次完成，也可以分多次进行。

But the values that she's come up with, which seem to be good thresholds for making sure that an adaptation response is triggered by heat and cold, is it ends up being fifty seven minutes per week total of uncomfortable, but safe heat, in that case sauna, and that can be all in one session or breaking it up into a couple of sessions on the same day or different days, and then eleven minutes per week of cold either in one single session or multiple sessions.

当然，你也可以做得更多。

Again, one could do more.

你可以把这些时间分散到好几天，也可以全集中在一天，比如一小时桑拿加11分钟冷暴露，或者反过来——虽然这对新手来说可能有点极端。

One could break that up over multiple days or do it all in one day or do it all in one, an hour in the sauna and then eleven minutes in the cold or vice versa, although that seems a little bit extreme, especially for the uninitiated.

但这些是已经被研究过的数值。

But those are the numbers that have been studied.

但正如你指出的，目前还没有大量深入的研究来考察不同冷刺激方案在温度和时间上的具体要求。

But as you point out, there are not a lot of really thorough studies examining different cold protocols according to temperature by time requirements.

因此，建立一套习惯时，多少需要依赖主观感受。

So there is a bit of subjective feel required to establish a routine.

我其实想再次强调我们对话开头提到的一点：疼痛本身并不是一个明确的衡量指标。

And I would actually say this is another time to reemphasize something we talked about at the beginning of our conversation, which is that pain itself is not a defined outcome.

这在很大程度上受你的感知影响。

It's heavily influenced by your perception.

所以如果你觉得它们对你无效，它们就真的无效。

And so if you don't feel like they work for you, they won't work.

如果你觉得它们效果绝佳，那它们就有效。

If you feel like they work fantastic, they do.

因此，要在这个领域获得真正客观的数据是很有挑战性的。

So it's a challenging field to get really objective data on.

所以这些事情中总会带有一些主观性。

So there's always going to be a little bit of subjective nature to some of these things.

我可以举个亲身经历的例子，我们长期以来一直让运动员使用冷热交替疗法。

I I can tell you anecdotally, we've used hot and cold contrast for a long time with athletes.

有些人非常喜欢，有些人无感，还有各种中间状态。

Some love it, some don't care for it, and everything in between.

所以这是一类我从不强制要求的事情。

So it's one of those things where I never mandated.

当然，我不能强迫任何我合作的人做任何事，但我从不会主动问，比如，你有兴趣吗？

Of course, I can't mandate anything for anyone I work with, but I'm never, you know, like, hey, are you interested?

很好。

Great.

你在这一方面遇到困难了。

You're struggling in this area.

你想试试这个吗？

Do you want to try this?

你试过了，而且喜欢它？

You did, and you liked it?

很好。

Great.

你在这一方面遇到困难，试过了，但并不喜欢。

You're struggling in this area and you tried it, you didn't love it.

好吧，行。

Okay, fine.

我不是。

I'm not.

我们会随着深入探索其他途径。

We'll we'll find other routes as we we'll get into.

提高恢复有很多方法。

There's a lot of ways to enhance recovery.

这只是一种方式，而且甚至还没有真正触及到从根本上阻止问题的发生。

This is only one and it hasn't even really come down to stopping the problem in the first place.

我们只是在治疗症状，这虽然是第一道防线，但你真正需要做的是回溯并找出问题最初发生的原因，这才是根本解决方案。

We're just treating symptoms, which is first line of defense, but you really need to go back and figure out why it's happening to begin with as a solution.

这些只是不同的、再次强调的急性症状管理策略。

These are just different, again, acute symptom management tactics.

关于刻意冷暴露，最后一点值得提及的是，淋浴之所以有效，但远不如冷水浸泡或浸入冰水至颈部那么有效，原因正是你之前提到的：大多数淋浴的水温达不到那么低。

One final point about deliberate cold exposure, I think worth mentioning is one of the reasons the shower is effective, but not nearly as effective as cold water immersion or immersion in ice up to the neck, is simply because of the reason you stated before, which is that most showers are not going to get that cold.

你不可能让水温降到四十度以下。

You're not going to get down, you know, into the sub-40s.

另外，冷水淋浴实际上并没有被深入研究过。

Also, cold showers haven't really been studied that much.

有研究过，但远不如浸泡研究得多。

They have, but not nearly as much as immersion.

人们总是问为什么。

And people always ask why.

我只是想到在淋浴中研究冷水暴露的挑战，因为你很难控制身体被覆盖的面积，以及头部是否在不同体型的人身上保持在不同位置等等。

I just think about the challenges of studying cold water exposure in the shower where you can't really control for how much of the body is covered, whether or not the head stays under different sized bodies, etcetera.

而当人们来到实验室时，他们可以进入冷水池。

Whereas when people come into a laboratory, they can get into a cold water tank.

我们知道脖子的位置，知道下巴的位置，也能确保人们的四肢都在水下。

We know where the neck is, we know where the chin is, and we can make sure that people's arms and legs are underneath.

但如果是冷水淋浴，虽然你可以让所有人都面向或背对淋浴头，但这真的很难控制。

But with cold shower, sure, you can make everyone face away or toward the shower, but it's really tricky.

以及所有上述的各种变化。

And for all the variations that were described.