嘉宾系列 | 安迪·加尔平博士：优化您的训练计划以实现健身与长寿

我不一定非得把所有这些事情都做完。

I don't have to necessarily get all these things done.

我可以一个季度增加百分之零点五，再百分之零点五，再百分之零点五，再百分之零点五。

I can go quarter, half percent, half percent, half percent, half percent.

你最终会达到目标的，对吧？

You're gonna get there, right?

我刚才提到的另一种情况，可能看起来像这样。

The other scenario that I laid out a second ago, it maybe needs to look like something like this.

第一季度将是0%。

Quarter one is gonna be 0%.

哇，是的，没错。

Like, woah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

接下来的三个月你可能一磅都减不掉。

You may not lose a pound for the next three months.

我们不在乎。

We don't care.

这三个月的目标不是这个。

That's not the goal of these three months.

我知道今年的目标是这个。

I know that's the goal this year.

这是我们主要的宏观周期目标。

That's our major macrocycle goal.

我们会达到目标，但为了最有效地实现它，我们需要更多地与你的整骨医生合作，或者 whatever 的方式，对吧？

We're going to get there, but to get there most effectively, we need to invest you know, working more with your chiropractor or whatever the thing is, right?

这样我们才能在第二季度达到百分之零点五，那时我们真正开始训练，但我们会逐步提升。

That will allow us to then go half a percent quarter two when we can really start training, but we're gonna ramp into it.

第三季度，我们将再提升百分之零点五。

Quarter three, we're gonna go another half a percent.

现在我们已经走了一半的路。

And now we're halfway there.

第四季度，我们已经投入了这么多。

Quarter four, we've invested so much.

你已经准备好开始了。

You're ready to go.

我们要全力以赴。

We're going go hard.

在最后一个季度，我们要拿下那最后的1%，我们会达成目标，而且你不会受伤。

We're going to get that last 1% that last quarter, and we're going to get there and you won't be hurt.

这让我非常清楚，我也能想象出这些中间目标的具体结构会因所追求的适应类型而有所不同。

So that makes it very clear, and I can also envision how the precise structure of these intermediate goals would vary depending on what sort of adaptation one is pursuing.

我记得在我们之前的节目中提到过，减脂本身并不是一种适应，而是其他适应的副产品。

And I do remember from our previous episodes that fat loss itself is not an adaptation, it is a byproduct of other adaptations.

所以我只是想确认一下，你知道我有在认真听。

So I just want to make sure that you know that I was paying attention.

我已经牢牢记住了。

It's committed to memory.

像减脂这样的目标非常可量化，但它们可能并不是线性的，对吧？

Some goals such as fat loss are very quantifiable, and yet they might not be linear, right?

很难确定，人们通常假设，如果你每天摄入的热量比所需少X卡路里，那么你就会减掉X重量，其中一部分来自体脂。

It's hard to know, the assumption is if you ingest X fewer calories than are required per day, then you'll lose X amount of weight, some percentage from body fat.

我认为这引出了一个想法：我们需要在思考这些中间目标时保持一定的灵活性，以确保多巴胺系统不会被精确的数字所束缚。

I think that cues up the idea that we need to build some flexibility into our thinking about these intermediate goals in order to just make sure that dopamine system isn't tethered to exact numbers.

毕竟，体脂率降低2%，实际上是为了实现一种不同的整体身体成分或体成分重塑。

Because after all, a reduction in 2% body fat, for instance, is really a desire to achieve a different sort of overall body composition or recomposition.

顺便说一下，我不确定那是不是我的确切目标。

I don't know, by the way, that that's my exact goal.

我认为我的目标之一是能跑得更快，我始终被大学时想参加越野跑队却努力尝试的经历所困扰。

I think one of my goals is to be able to run a mile faster, and I'm sort of haunted by this experience of wanting to run across country in college and trying to walk on.

我们学校不是一级院校，但入选队伍的门槛是必须在两英里跑中跑进10分钟以内，这实际上非常非常快。

We weren't a division one school, but the threshold for being considered for the team was you had to run a sub ten minute two mile, which turns out to be very, very fast.

这真的很难。

That's really hard.

是的。

Yeah.

我没有，我根本没有做到。

I didn't I did not do that.

我连接近都没接近。

I didn't even come close.

而且我认为我现在也不可能合理地做到。

But and I don't think that I could reasonably do that now.

这会很有挑战性。

It'd be challenging.

我不愿意投入所需的那种训练。

I'm not interested in committing to the kind of training required.

对我来说，这种牺牲不够有意义。

The sacrifice isn't meaningful enough for me.

说得通。

Fair enough.

但是

But

将一英里的跑步时间缩短10%，在六个月的时间里，这似乎是一个合理的目标。

one's mile, time to run a mile by, I don't know, 10% seems like a reasonable goal across six months.

当然。

Sure.

太好了。

Great.

所以，对于这样的目标，显然有特定的训练计划，但这引出了一个问题：如果我还有其他目标呢？

So in the case of a goal like that, clearly there are specific training programs, but this raises the issue of what if I have other goals as well?

当人们拥有多个目标时，什么时候会开始出现目标之间的冲突？

And at what point do people having multiple goals start to set up collisions between goals?

我们如何判断一件事是否合理，不仅要看它本身，还要考虑一个人在计划中已经安排的其他事情？

How do we know whether or not something is reasonable, not just on its own, but because of the other things that one has structured into their program?

所以，在六个月内将一英里时间缩短10%，好吧，也许可行，也许不行。

So being able to reduce a mile time by 10% in six months, okay, maybe that's doable, maybe it's not.

你可以告诉我。

You can tell me.

但同时，他们也能把单次腿伸展的重量翻倍，这一点也很重要。

But also being able to, you know, double the amount that they can do for, you know, single repetition leg extension for that matter.

与此同时，这些目标看起来似乎是相互冲突的。

At the same time, that seems those seem like incompatible goals.

对。

Right.

所以有几点要说。

So a couple of things.

第一，你对单一目标的定义越具体、越精确，通常你就越快能达到目标。

Number one, the more specific and precise you can be with a single goal, the faster you will get there, generally.

所以理论上，如果你只有一个想要实现的目标，最好的方法就是专注于它。

So in theory, if you had one thing you wanted to achieve, the best way to go about it is to focus on that.

给它最高的优先级。

Give it the most priority.

但这并不意味着你不能在过程中做其他事情。

That doesn't mean you can't do anything else along the way.

你可以。

You can.

但你最好专注于那个目标。

But you would wanna focus on that.

你加入的额外目标越多，对主要目标的干扰就越大。

The more additional goals you bring in, the more distraction you're creating for that primary goal.

根据这些目标的具体内容，你实际上可以同时实现它们。

Depending on what those goals are, you can actually do them at the same time.

有些组合的效果较差。

Some other combinations are less effective.

这样想吧。

Think about it like this.

我们已经讨论了那九种适应性变化，并且是有意按照特定顺序进行的。

We went through those nine adaptations, and we went through them in a specific order on purpose.

在那个列表中，越接近的适应性变化，彼此之间的训练兼容性就越高。

The closer those adaptations are together in that list, the more compatible they are to training each other.

距离越远，就越具有挑战性。

The further away, they become more challenging.

所以，我来举几个例子。

So just to give a few examples.

如果你想提升速度和力量，基本上可以同时训练这两者。

If you wanted to improve your speed and power, you could basically train those simultaneously.

它们完全不会互相干扰。

They would not interfere with each other at all.

事实上，由于力量等于速度乘以力，因此它们是互补的。

In fact, since power is speed times force, it would be complementary.

如果你从那里一路往下看，直到力量训练，嘿。

If you just walk down the line from there to strength, hey.

情况也是一样。

Same thing.

如果你变得更快，这会有助于增强力量，因为力等于质量乘以加速度。

If you get faster, that's gonna aid in strength because force is mass times acceleration.

所以如果你提高了加速能力，就是在增强力量。

So if you improve acceleration, you're contributing to strength.

力量和爆发力也是如此。

Same thing with power.

因此，速度、爆发力和力量通常是高度互补的。

So speed, power, and strength are generally very complementary.

你完全可以同时训练这三项目标，而不会遇到任何问题。

You can absolutely train all three of those goals at the same time and have no issues.

接下来谈谈肌肉肥大。

Getting into hypertrophy.

现在我们有了一点区别。

Now we've got a little bit of distinction.

如果你要训练力量和肌肉肥大，正如我们在那一集中讨论的，从基础来看，它们是互补的。

If you're going to train strength and hypertrophy, as we talked about in that episode, at the base, those are going to be complementary.

你增加了一些肌肉，力量就会增强。

You add on some muscle, you're going to get stronger.

你开始进行力量训练时，可能会对增加一些肌肉质量有帮助。

You start training for strength, it's probably gonna help you out on some muscle mass.

当你接近这个谱系的末端时，两者之间的重叠就开始减少。

As you get to the end of that spectrum, the overlap between the two starts to go away.

因此，如果你真的想最大限度地提升力量，同时继续进行增肌训练，这会消耗过多的恢复资源，导致你无法做到。

Such that if you truly wanted to maximize strength above everything else, if you continue to train for hypertrophy as well, that's going to take too many resources out of your recovery bin, and you won't be able to do that.

反过来也是如此。

The inverse would also be the same.

对吧？

Right?

如果你以最大化力量为目标，就无法安排足够的训练量来获得足够的肌肉增长。

If you're training to maximize strength, you wouldn't be able to put enough volume on to get sufficient hypertrophy.

所以，如果你想把速度和增肌结合起来，两者之间的距离会更远，这意味着相互干扰会越来越多。

So if you wanted to then combine speed with hypertrophy, you're going farther away from each other, which means there's going to be more and more distraction.

因此，增肌训练会造成大量疲劳。

So the hypertrophy training would cause a ton of fatigue.

你无法在进行速度或力量训练时全力冲刺，因此会影响这些训练的效果。

You wouldn't be able to go at max speed for your speed or power strength, so you're gonna be compromising those results.

现在，速度训练不会影响你的肌肉增长训练，因为它不会造成疲劳。

Now speed training won't compromise your hypertrophy training because it's non fatiguing.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这里我们确实存在一定程度的干扰效应，但可能只是一方受影响。

And so boom, here we have a little bit of an interference effect one way, but probably not the other.

我们再往下看一个层次，谈谈耐力训练。

Let's move down the spectrum one more time and get into endurance.

我们不会逐一讨论所有这些内容，但你应该已经理解了这个思路。

We won't go through all of these things, but you're you're getting the idea here.

嗯，来点高强度间歇训练？

Oh, a little bit of a high intensity intervals?

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

那这会影响我的速度、力量或爆发力吗？

Now would that compromise my speed, power, or strength?

可能会，因为会有一些残留疲劳。

Probably because there's a little bit of residual fatigue.

如果训练量足够低，那就没问题。

If the volume was low enough, then you'd be fine.

你所担心的并不是某种细胞机制。

All you're worried about there is not necessarily like some sort of cellular mechanism.

这仅仅是简单的疲劳。

It's just simple fatigue.

这是能量消耗的量是否会影响你恢复的问题。

It is amount of energy expenditure versus is that compromising my recovery to come back.

前面那三项——速度、力量、爆发力——会妨碍你提升无氧耐力吗？

Would those first three or four of those, speed, power, strength, interfere with your ability to elevate your anaerobic capacity?

可能不会。

Probably not.

几乎肯定。

Almost surely.

事实上，如果你查阅任何关于耐力训练的文献，你会发现速度、力量和爆发力几乎总是能提升耐力。

In fact, if you look at any of the literature on endurance training, you will see that speed, power, and strength almost always improve endurance.

对吧？

Right?

在力量训练基础上增加耐力训练可能会产生负面影响，也可能没有明显效果，但通常不会因为增加额外的有氧训练而让你变得更强。

Endurance training added on top of strength can be detrimental, can have a neutral effect, but generally doesn't help one get stronger by adding additional conditioning.

除非你体能太差，根本无法完成力量训练所需的训练量。

Unless you're so unfit, you can't get through the volume needed in the strength training.

对，再举一个例子，这样我们不至于拖得太久。

Right, one more example here so we don't drag this out too far.

比如，我想减脂的情况。

In the case of something like I want to lose fat.

嗯，我们不必担心干扰问题。

Well, we don't have to worry about interference.

这其实并不重要。

It doesn't really matter.

如果你在增肌训练前感到疲劳，也没关系。

If you're fatigued for your hypertrophy session, not a big deal.

我们只是想完成一些训练量。

We're just trying to get some work done.

如果你的增肌训练让你因为有氧训练而疲劳，这也没关系，因为你已经完成了训练。

If your hypertrophy session fatigues you from your conditioning, it's cool because you got the work done.

所以你不必为此太过担心，这实际上取决于你的具体目标，你需要关注的是重叠的可能性，也就是从一种训练到另一种训练之间，生理上有哪些适应性变化是相互交叉的。

So you don't have to worry about it so So it really kind of depends on the actual goal and what you want to pay attention to is actually what are the chances of overlap, which means like what are the adaptations you get physiologically that crossover from one to the other.

那么，又有哪些是真正会开始相互干扰的呢？

Then And what are the ones that are actually going to start interfering?

事实上，在我的课程中，我有一张巨大的干扰效应矩阵图，涵盖了从各种适应性变化到众多系统，包括pH值调节、淋巴引流、骨密度等等。

In fact, have in my class, I have this giant matrix chart of interference effect going from adaptations through a whole bunch of systems, everything from handling pH to lymphatic drainage to bone mineral density, etcetera.

你可以逐一分析这些内容，看看哪些实际上有正面效果？

And you can walk through these whole things and say, which ones actually have a positive effect?

哪些具有显著的正面效果？

Which ones have a massive positive effect?

而哪些又会带来一点点干扰？

And then which ones actually have a little bit of interference?

如果你们够体贴的话，我们可以把这些内容整理成一份简报，或者某种PDF格式，用来

Perhaps if you guys are nice enough, we could throw that into a newsletter or something, some PDF or something to

我觉得这会非常有价值。

I think that would be immensely valuable.

我觉得当这些更详细的信息以网格形式呈现时，更容易理解，也非常有用。

I think some of that more extensive information when it's laid out in grid form like that It's easier is really useful.

嗯，既然我们已经提到了，那我们就

To well, now we've said it, so we

我可没说我们会做，我只是说‘或许’。

I didn't say we'd do it, I said perhaps.

我觉得这是个好主意。

I think it's a great idea.

我觉得这是个绝佳的主意。

I think it's a terrific idea.

列表中这九种适应性措施中，彼此距离更近的项目更容易并行实现，而距离较远的则不然，这个观点非常合理。

The idea that items closer on to each other on the list of those nine different adaptations are going to be easier to achieve in parallel than items further apart, makes perfect sense.

我听到的是，有一些看似微小但实际很重要的注意事项，比如任何强度较低且不影响恢复的活动，大概都可以作为并行目标纳入。

And what I heard was that there's a few caveats that might seem minor, but they're actually quite important, such as anything that is relatively low intensity and doesn't impede recovery can probably be included as a parallel goal.

所以，可以将一些速度训练与长时间有氧运动结合起来。

So some speed work in conjunction with some long duration cardio work.

不，即使我们讨论的是列表中的第二项和第九项。

No Even though we're talking about number two on that list and number nine on that list.

在这种情况下，即使长时间耐力训练强度较低，但如果量过大，仍可能影响速度训练。

In that case, the long duration endurance, even if it's low intensity, may actually interfere with the speed if the volume gets too high.

如果你说的是，我去慢跑了三十分钟。

If you're talking about, I went on a thirty minute jog.

对大多数人来说，这完全没问题。

For most people, that that it's totally fine.

我们真正讨论的是，当里程数开始累积，或者时间显著增加，再加上我们之前提到的一些因素，比如运动选择时的情况。

What we're really talking about here is when the miles start piling up or the the time really starts getting there in combination with some of the things the factors we've talked about earlier, which is exercise choice.

所以更多是基于离心落地的运动选择。

So more eccentric landing based exercise choices.

比如，跑步比骑自行车更容易产生干扰，对吧？

Running, for example, is more likely to interfere than cycling, right?

因为你没有落地冲击。

Because you're not landing.

游泳是低冲击的运动。

Swimming is low impact.

所以如果你要做这些运动，可以通过选择冲击较小的运动来降低风险。

So if you're gonna do those things, you can hedge your bets a little bit by choosing an exercise choice that is less impactful.

再次说明，这里经常让人困惑，比如有人会说：‘在力量训练前别在跑步机上跑十分钟。’

Again, if we're literally because there's oftentimes confusing here where it's like, oh, don't do ten minutes on the treadmill before you lift.

你会突然停下来，哇。

You're gonna cut like, woah.

哇。

Woah.

等等，暂停一下。

Like, time out.

热身是可以的。

A warm up is fine.

我们真正讨论的是，超过三十分钟、心率高于60%的情况。

We're really talking about probably more than thirty plus minutes at higher than 60% heart rate.

比如，随便举个数字，差不多就是这样。

Like, random number, something like that.

这取决于个人，等等。

Depends on the person, etcetera.

但必须得是一段相当长的时间。

But it has to be a decent chunk.

再者，你其实可以通过摄入热量来解决这个问题。

Again, you can actually fix that by then just consuming calories.

你也可以通过改善其他隐藏的、无形的压力源来解决这个问题。

You can also fix that by making sure everything else in the hidden invisible stressor bucket is improved.

所以，这是我们将在讨论恢复时提到的一个技巧：你不一定需要减少训练量，只要提升恢复即可。

So this is like one of our tricks that we'll get into when we get into recovery is you don't necessarily need to to reduce your training if you just ramp up your recovery.

我想短暂休息一下，感谢我们的赞助商 Athletic Greens。

I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, Athletic Greens.

Athletic Greens 是一种含有维生素、矿物质、益生菌和适应原的饮品，旨在帮助你满足所有基础营养需求。

Athletic Greens is a vitamin mineral probiotic and adaptogen drink designed to help you meet all of your foundational nutritional needs.

自2012年以来，我每天都服用 Athletic Greens，因此很高兴它能成为本播客的赞助商。

I've been taking Athletic Greens daily since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're a sponsor of this podcast.

我开始服用 Athletic Greens 以及至今仍每天服用一到两次的原因，是它能帮助我满足所有基础营养需求。

The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day is that it helps me meet all of my foundational nutritional needs.

也就是说，它涵盖了我所需的维生素、矿物质，而益生菌对我来说尤其重要。

That is, it covers my vitamins, my minerals, and the probiotics are especially important to me.

Athletic Greens 还含有适应原，这对缓解压力、运动、工作或日常生活中的压力至关重要。

Athletic Greens also contains adaptogens, which are critical for recovering from stress, from exercise, from work, or just general life.

如果你想尝试 Athletic Greens，可以访问 athleticgreens.com/huberman 来领取特别优惠。

If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

他们会赠送你五份免费的旅行装，还会赠送你一年份的维生素 D3 和 K2。

They'll give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year's supply of vitamin D3K2.

再次提醒，如果你想尝试 Athletic Greens，请访问 athleticgreens.com/huberman 领取特别优惠。

Again, if you'd like to try Athletic Greens, go to athleticgreens.com/huberman to claim the special offer.

我将大胆假设，大多数人可以被归入以下三个目标类别之一。

I'm going to take the liberty of assuming that most people fall into one of either three bins in terms of their goals.

再次说明，当然也会有一些人不属于这些类别。

Again, most people, certainly, there are going be people that lie outside these bins.

我认为，如果你调查一百人、十万甚至一百万人，问他们锻炼的主要目标是什么，他们会像你之前很好地列举的那样，回答：外形改变、功能提升和延长寿命。

I think if you polled a 100 people or a 100,000 or a million people as to what their major goals were in working out, they'd say, as you so nicely listed out as before, aesthetic changes, functionality and longevity.

但那三分之一的人群，其目标实际上比大多数人愿意承认的还要更高。

But that one in three really kind of sit higher than most people would like to perhaps even admit.

他们希望看起来更好，这通常意味着他们想减掉一些脂肪，在特定部位增加一些肌肉。

They want to look good, which usually means they want to lose some fat, gain some muscle in specific places.

我意识到有些人希望大幅增肌。

I realize there are folks out there who want to gain a lot of muscle.

是的。

Yeah.

而且希望全身都长满肌肉。

And just muscle everywhere.

但我认为大多数人希望在某些地方多一点线条，在另一些地方多一点肌肉，以平衡整体外观或突出身体的某些部位。

But I think most people would like to have a little more shape here, a little more muscle there to either balance out their aesthetic or to accentuate certain parts of their physique.

他们可能也希望减少一些皮下脂肪，尽管确实存在一些特别瘦的人，他们也确实存在，我认为大多数人还是希望在特定部位增肌、减脂，同时以一种也能提升健康寿命和长寿的方式进行。

And they would probably like to shave off some subcutaneous fat, although there are those exceptionally lean people out there, and they exist too, I think it would be gain muscle in specific places, lose fat, and do it in a way that also provides some boost to their health span and longevity.

我想这可能是世界上一半人的目标。

I would say that that might even be fifty percent of people out there.

再次说明，我是在大胆估算。

Again, I'm taking the liberty of guesstimating.

另一个群体则希望变得更强壮并增加肌肉。

Another bin I would venture is interested in getting stronger and putting on more muscle.

当然，有不少人希望做到这一点，可能是全身都增加肌肉，或者重点加强某些较弱或发育不足的部位。

Certainly, there are a number of people that are interested in doing that, and that could even be more muscle all over or more muscle with some accentuation to certain areas where they happen to be weaker or less developed as it were.

第三类人则非常享受有氧运动。

And then the third bin would be people that really enjoy cardiovascular work.

哦，我应该说，第二类人可能也关心自己的长寿，但这并不是他们最首要的考虑。

Oh, I should say the second bin probably care about their longevity also, but it's not really foremost.

比如，是的，你知道，我现在感觉很棒，能活到多大都行，但我只愿意做那些能让我长这么多肌肉的事。

Like, yeah, you know, I feel great now and I'll live to be whatever, but I only want to do it if I get that much muscle.

了解这种人。

Know these kinds of folks.

我每年上课时都会做一次投票，问大家：你们都举铁吗？

I run a poll in my class every year when I ask, like, what, you guys all lift?

当然，我会让他们举手示意。

And of course, like, I make them put their hand up.

我说，你们都在我的课上。

I'm like, you guys are in my class.

你们就得举手，表示愿意举重。

You're gonna put your hand up and let you lift weights.

然后我问他们，你们为什么训练？

And then I ask them, why do you train?

健康是长期目标，列在清单上，但他们都说，我根本没有选健康，我跟他们说，选了健康的人都是在撒谎。

And like, health is long term health is like on the list and they all like, I don't I'm like, any of you that selected health are liars.

你们才二十到二十五岁，根本不是为了健康而锻炼。

Like, you're 20 to 25, you are not exercising for health.

你们锻炼是因为想看起来某种样子，或者变得更强壮。

You are exercising because you wanna look a certain way or get stronger.

但一旦过了本科年龄，真正想要活得更久、更好的愿望就会变得非常真实。

Once you get past that undergraduate age though, the actual desire to live longer and better actually becomes pretty real.

是的，我觉得有些人只是想感觉更好。

Yeah, I think that there are people who want to feel better.

要知道，锻炼以及锻炼带来的效果能让他们感觉更好。

Know that exercise and the results from exercise can make them feel better.

是的，第二类人似乎更关注外貌的改变，或者变得更强壮。

Yeah, that second bin tends to be more focused on the aesthetic change, it seems, or being strong.

第三类人，我认为有很多这样的人，他们真的很享受通常被认为是耐力型的活动。

And then the third category, I think are people, I know a lot of folks like this, who really enjoy what are normally considered endurance type activities.

在这里，我想再次强调你在之前节目中精彩阐述的观点：即使使用哑铃或器械，你也能大幅提升耐力。

And here, just I want to highlight again what you so beautifully illustrated in previous episodes that you can gain a lot of endurance even using weights or machines.

关键在于你怎么使用它们，对吧？

Just depends on how you use them, right?

当然。

Absolutely.

这不在于运动本身，而在于你如何执行以及类似的因素。

It's not about the exercise, about how you perform them and etcetera.

你再次精彩地详细说明了如何无论使用何种器械都能培养耐力。

And you, again, beautifully provided all those details as to how to create endurance regardless of equipment standards, etcetera.

但第三类人通常是那些喜欢跑步、骑车、游泳、徒步、跳舞的人，这些活动可以持续很长时间，通常涉及基于改善运动模式的某种技能。

But that third category seem to be people who enjoy running, cycling, swimming, hiking, dancing, activities that they can do for long periods of time that often will involve some sort of skill that is based on improving motor patterns.

所以也许不是那么注重步态，但对于真正热爱网球的人来说确实如此。

So maybe not so much stride, but certainly for people that are really love tennis.

是的。

Yeah.

喜欢高尔夫这类运动的人。

People that love a sport like golf.

对吧？

Right?

他们希望的不只是走路，而是能走完18洞。

And they wanna be able to not you just walk the know, they wanna walk the 18 holes.

他们希望拥有出色的挥杆动作等等。

They want they wanna have a great golf swing, etcetera.

我不是高尔夫球手，如果我的术语有误，请见谅。

I'm not a golf player, so forgive me if my nomenclature is off.

高尔夫球手。

Golfer.

是的。

Yeah.

高尔夫球手。

Golfer.

所以你打高尔夫。

So that play golf.

哦，明白了。

Oh, got it.

你不打高尔夫。

You don't play golf.

嗯，你是打高尔夫的。

Well, you play golf.

你不会称一个高尔夫球员。

You wouldn't call a golf player.

我打过几次迷你高尔夫。

I played miniature golf a few times.

就这么多了。

That's about it.

不过，那里确实有一个漂亮的高尔夫球场。

Although, it does have a beautiful golf course.

我听说我应该学学打高尔夫。

I'm told I should learn how to play golf.

如果你愿意，我可以上去陪你打。

I'll come up and play it for you if you want.

你上来，我来打给你看。

You come up, I'll play it.

我告诉你怎么玩。

I'll tell you how it works.

带我去那个球场吧。

Get me on that course.

我会从我的实验室里看到它。

I'll see it from my lab.

所以第一类人群，我认为占了相当大的比例。

So category one, I think is a significant fraction of people.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，当我们梳理出这些评估目标的不同方式，并逐步构建项目结构时——正如你将告诉我们的——如果我们能时不时地回过头来参考这些内容，那我就大胆假设，我们最终能覆盖大约百分之八十到九十的人群。

So as we lay out these different ways to assess goals, and as we approach the structure of a program, as you'll tell us, if we could perhaps touch back to those every once in a while, again, I'm taking the liberty of assuming that we will net about eighty to ninety percent of people out there.

这些类别包括那些希望减掉一些脂肪、在身体特定部位增肌，并且真正希望保持健康的人。

Again, those categories being people who want to lose some fat, maybe build some muscle in specific areas on their body, and really want to be healthy.

他们希望感觉良好，并拥有较长的健康寿命，也就是最终的寿命。

They want to feel great, and they want to have a long health span, AKA end lifespan.

他们希望长寿且始终保持良好的状态。

They want to live a long time feeling great.

第二类人群，希望增加肌肉和力量。

Second category, people want to build more muscle and strength.

当然，他们不希望损害健康，但这并不是他们的主要关注点。

Sure, they don't want to damage their health, but that's not their main focus.

他们的主要目标是增肌和增强力量。

Their main focus is on building muscle and strength.

第三类人则更倾向于进行耐力型训练，希望在锻炼时感到活力充沛和强健，但并不是因为能举起重物，而是因为他们能保持活力，持续更长时间地发力，甚至将这种能力应用到一些休闲活动或运动中，比如网球、足球、垒球之类的。

And then that third category of people who really want to do more endurance type work, feel great and strong doing it, but not because they can carry heavy weights while they're doing it, but rather they can feel vital and they can push harder for longer and maybe even translate that to some of the more recreational type activities or sports like tennis and things that are more long duration, playing soccer, maybe even softball or things of

这类活动。

that sort.

是的，冲浪、游泳，

Yeah, surfing, swimming,

所有这些。为了便于今天讨论，我们可以把这三类人分别称为A类、B类和C类。

all that So those three categories, maybe we could call those bin A, B, and C for sake of today's discussion.

我认为，如果你愿意接受这种分类，这将对我们听众大有裨益，而仅仅假设人们的目标是相同的，可能无法达到这样的效果。

I think if you're willing to embrace that, I think that will be informative toward our listeners in a way that simply not assuming what people's different goals are might not be able to accomplish.

换句话说，希望这样分类后，人们能从你即将向我们介绍的项目描述中获得更多的启发。

Said differently, hopefully by doing that, people will derive a lot more from the description of the program that you're going to give us.

太棒了。

Love it.

现在，我确定想让你回到你列出的关于制定锻炼计划时人们需要考虑的五件事。

Now, I am certain that I want to let you return to your list of the five things that people need to consider when establishing a exercise program.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Great.

我们开始吧。

Let's do that.

我也想特别认可你提出的一个观点。

I also do wanna acknowledge a point you've brought up acutely.

锻炼并不只是举重。

Exercise doesn't mean just lifting weights.

那是我的背景。

That's my background.

这就是我平时专注的事情。

That's what I spend my time on.

所以我自然而然地会用这一类的例子。

So I sort of default to examples in that category.

但并不一定要这样。

But it doesn't have to be that.

你已经提出了很多其他方式，可以通过这些方式获得绝佳的锻炼效果，而完全不需要举重。

You've articulated plenty of other ways where you can get amazing forms of exercise that have nothing to do with lifting weights.

那么对于那些属于B组还是C组的人呢？

So for those folks in, was it bin C or three?

A组是增肌、减脂，现在和永远保持健康。

Can't We go A is gain muscle, lose fat, be healthy now and forever.

B组是变强、增肌，不损害健康，但不特别关注短期健康。

Bin B is get stronger, gain muscle, don't damage your health, but not really focus on health in the immediate term.

而C组则是想参与或进行耐力型活动，并在活动中感到有力。

And then, BIN C is want to play or do endurance type activities and feel strong doing it.

所以更有精力能够更长时间地进行，并可能更关注体重秤等细节。

So have more vigor to be able to do that longer and maybe with more attention to scale, etcetera.

当然，也想改善他们的健康状况。

And of course, also want to improve their health.

你实际上为我们提供了三个具有不同目标的虚拟形象，对吧？

What you've effectively done is you've given us three different avatars with three different goals, right?

因此，接下来每个人或每个群体都需要确定他们的阻碍因素。

So the next step for each person or group is going to be to identify their defenders.

但在我们进入这一步之前，我们必须先完成这个智能方案的闭环。

But before we get that, we got to close the loop on this smart thing.

在每种情况下，他们要么是基于个人偏好选择了这个目标，要么是通过我们的体能测试协议后意识到自己需要增强力量。

So in each case, they have either chosen that goal based on their personal preference, or perhaps they did our our fitness testing protocol and and realized they need to gain strength.

无论他们选择进入A、B或C类别的原因是我们的协议还是个人偏好，这其实并不重要。

So whether the reason they chose to be in buckets b or a or c was because of our protocol or personal preference, it really doesn't matter.

他们仍然希望经历这个过程，明确自己的目标，并确保这些目标是具体的。

They still wanna go through this process of laying out their goals and making sure that, again, they are specific.

对吧？

Right?

那我们来看看C组，这是一个很好的例子。

So, let's go through bin c, which is a great one.

你希望拥有更多精力，在玩风筝冲浪时感觉更强壮。

So you wanna have, more energy, and you wanna feel stronger when you're doing your kite boarding.

你在打完一局网球、一局高尔夫或一场网球后，希望能感觉更强壮。

You wanna feel stronger when you finish your round of tennis, round of golf, game of tennis.

好的。

Okay.

很好。

Great.

这是一种不同的力量。

That's a different strength.

当然。

Absolutely.

你看，我明白你在说什么。

See, I hear I know what you're saying though.

太棒了。

Amazing.

所以这个目标需要针对这一点具体化。

So that goal needs to be specific to that.

对吧？

Right?

所以，想要设定一个像‘我想在打完一局后感觉更好’这样的目标会很难。

So it would be hard to make a goal like, I wanna feel better at the end of my round.

这取决于太多其他因素了。

Boy, what that depends on too many other factors.

更好的目标应该是这样的。

A better goal would be something like this.

我想能够跑完我 neighborhood 周围的这两英里路线，并且在跑完后心率更低。

I want to be able to run this two mile loop that I do around my neighborhood, and I wanna do it and have a lower heart rate at the end.

或者我希望自己的心率恢复得更快。

Or I wanna be able to get my heart rate back, my heart rate recovery back faster.

太棒了。

Amazing.

这很可能与你感觉更强壮有关。

That probably align with you feeling quote unquote stronger with it.

对吧？

Right?

我跑了同样的路线，要么以相同的速度跑起来不那么吃力，要么跑得更快。

So I did the same course and either I can do it at the same speed and it's not nearly as hard, or I can go faster.

无论哪种情况，都没关系。

Whichever one, it doesn't matter.

但这就是一个具体目标的例子。

But that would be an example of a specific goal.

你提到的其他方面其实已经包含具体目标了，比如我想变得更强壮。

The other buckets you laid out kind of already have specific goals, like I wanna get stronger.

那么，这将成为目标。

Well, that's going to be the goal.

另一个目标是，我想减掉一些脂肪。

The other one is going to be, you know, I wanna lose some fat.

好的。

Okay.

那种目标本身就隐含在其中了。

That's kind of the goal is sort of implicit in that.

但对于其他人，你只是觉得：我根本不在乎那个。

It's the other people where you're just like, I don't really care about that.

我只是想能够冲大浪，之后还不觉得精疲力尽。

I just wanna be able to surf the great waves and then not feel exhausted afterwards.

好的。

Alright.

不错。

Cool.

那么，你仍然应该选择一个不是这项活动本身的指标，因为能否完成它取决于海浪、温度等各种你无法控制的因素。你可以用一个替代指标来衡量：如果要选一个能代表你冲浪时感觉更好的指标，那会是什么？

Well, then you still should pick a metric that is not that activity maybe because it won't be within your control depending on the waves and the temperature and all this stuff that you can use as a proxy to say, if I were to do something that represented me feeling probably better when I surf, what would that be?

这并不完美，但已经是你能想到的最具体的了。

And it's not perfect, but it would be still as specific as you could get.

你仍然要确保它是可衡量的。

You still wanna make sure it's measurable.

这个例子可能是，你会去游泳池，记录自己游800米需要多长时间之类的。

Again, this example might be something like you're gonna go to the pool and time how long it takes you to swim 800 meters or something.

对吧？

Right?

这个目标是可以实现的，然后你会设定一个现实且有时间限制的目标。

It's attainable, and then you'll set a goal that's realistic and timely.

我打算在接下来的两个月内提升5%。

I'm gonna improve by 5% in the next two months.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

Cool.

这大概属于那个范畴。

That probably falls into the realm.

然后你假设，如果你做了这件事，当你去进行主要活动（比如冲浪）时，你会感觉更好。

And then you're making the assumption that if you did that, you'll probably feel better when you go out to do your primary activity, which is, say, surf.

事实上，每次我们与真正的运动员合作时，都是这么做的。

The reality of it is every time we work with an actual athlete, that's what we do.

运动员来找我们，并不是为了举重。

Athletes don't come to us to lift weights.

他们来找我们，也不是为了变得更强壮。

They don't come to us to get stronger.

他们来找我们，是因为他们想表现得更好，想更多地留在场上。

They come to us because they wanna play better, and they wanna stay on the field more.

我们试图让他们明白的是，如果你在健身房做这些训练，它应该能转化为你在运动中表现更出色、恢复更快、受伤更少。

What we're trying to convince them of is if you do this thing in the gym, then that should translate into you being better at your sport, recovering faster, being less injured.

但这仍然只是一个代理工具。

But it's still just a proxy.

因此，当你设定这些其他非特定目标时，尤其是当它们是基于表现的目标时，你实际上就是在这么做。

And so that's all you're doing with these other nonspecific goals, especially when they're performance based goals.

我们并没有这样包装它，但你确实谈到了bin c的情况。

And we didn't package it that way, but that's really what you talked about for bin c there.

这是一个基于表现的目标。

It is a performance based goal.

我希望能够在场上发挥出最佳状态。

I want to be able to perform when I'm in the field.

在我的认知里，这就是运动。

In my brain, that's a sport.

在你的认知里，这就是你去上瑜伽课的时候。

In your brain, it's when you're at yoga class.

其实是一回事。

It's the same thing.

我们之前在系列中提到过，只要你有身体，你就是一名运动员。

Like, we've said this earlier in our series that if you have a body, you're an athlete.

我想让你的身体做好准备，能够准确地完成你希望它做的事情。

I wanna prepare your body such that it can do exactly what you want it to do.

然后，你可以自由选择让你的身体去做什么。

You then get to have the choice of what you ask it to do.

你称之为运动。

You call it a sport.

你称之为和家人一起的周六徒步。

You call it your Saturday hike with your family.

我其实并不在意。

I don't really care.

这本质上是一回事。

It's the same thing.

你掌控了身体，让它按照你希望的方式表现，而这正是这一切的核心。

You get control of your body performing the way you want it to perform, and that's what this whole thing is about.

很好。

Great.

所以，既然我们已经大致讲完了关于评估和设定目标所需的内容，我想回到识别你的“阻碍者”这个想法上。

So now that we've covered, I think, as much as we need to regarding assessing and choosing a goal, I wanna get back to this idea of identifying your defender.

你必须认真思考是什么在阻止你实现这些目标。

So you really need to think carefully about what is stopping you from hitting those goals.

因此，你是在做一些预测。

And so you're forecasting a little bit.

你也在回顾自己的个人经历。

You're also going back into your own personal history.

对吧？

Right?

你有膝盖疼痛的历史吗？

Do you have history of knee pain?

你有过度工作的经历吗？

Do you have a history of working too much?

你有经常旅行的历史吗？

Do you have a history of a lot of travel?

你容易经常生病吗？

Do you have a history of getting sick a lot?

这些会阻碍你实现目标的事情是什么？

What are these things that are happening that are gonna stop you from hitting your goal?

我已经举了几个例子，所以我们不需要在这里多费时间了。

A couple of examples I've already laid out, so we don't need to go too much longer here.

但对于那些属于B类、想要减脂、同时稍微增肌的人来说呢？

But in the case of somebody who is in maybe bin a, right, which is wanna lose some fat, maybe gain a little bit of muscle.

好的。

Okay.

从力量和训练的角度来看，是什么阻碍了你？

What's stopping you from the strength and conditioning side?

是因为你无法保持规律的训练吗？

Is it the fact that you can't train consistent enough?

当你去训练时，是否不知道该做什么？

Is it a fact that when you go to train, you don't know what to do?

当你去训练时，是否拼尽全力却得不到任何效果？

Is it a fact that when you go to train, you train your ass off and you're not getting results?

好的。

Okay.

很好。

Great.

这三种不同的情景会导致不同的训练计划，因为你们失败的原因各不相同。

All three of these different scenarios are going to result in different programs because they have different reasons you're failing.

这一点非常关键。

And that is really critical.

不要只是说‘我想要一个减脂计划’，然后随便从网上选一个，它可能根本没解决你失败的根本问题。

Instead of just going, I want a fat loss program, and picking one up off the Internet, it may not actually be addressing the point of failure for you.

所以，越早根据你失败的原因来选择训练计划，你就能越快看到成果。

So the sooner you can choose your programs based on why you're failing, the sooner you'll start getting results.

你得做一些批判性分析，这可能是某种科学的、可量化的评估。

You have to run a little bit of a critical analysis there, and it can be, you know, something scientific and it could be a measurement.

也可能只是你回想一下，以前试过的方法为什么没成功？

And it also could just be you thinking about, you've tried this in the past and why didn't it work?

那没什么意思。

It wasn't that interesting.

好的。

Okay.

能详细说说为什么觉得没意思吗？

Tell me more about why it wasn't interesting.

哦，我只是不太喜欢器械训练，而我那时候只能用那些器械。

Oh, I just I'm not really into machines, and that's all I had.

好的。

Okay.

很好。

Great.

或者我真的很喜欢。

Or I I loved it.

我喜欢我之前的健身房，而且我也看到了效果，但它离得太远了。

I loved the gym I was at, and I was getting results, but it was so far away.

好的。

Okay.

有意思。

Interesting.

你之前为什么停止了？

Why did you stop before?

为什么没成功？

Why didn't it work?

或者如果它过去确实有效，那就太好了。

Or if it did work in the past, amazing.

我们回到类似的事情上，但你的生活有没有任何变化？

Let's go back to something similar, but has your life changed at all?

现在和三年前它有效的时候相比，有什么不同吗？

Is there anything different about now than when it worked three years ago?

是的，没有。

Yes, no.

如果没有，那我们干脆直接照原样再试一次。

If not, maybe we run it right back.

如果有，那我们就来预测一下这些变化。

If it is, okay, we're gonna sort of predict those things.

你想高效地做到这一点，我的意思是，在整个这十个步骤的过程中，你都要确保生活中那些不可妥协的事项——你知道它们会优先于你的健身计划——你应当与这些因素协同，而不是与之对抗。

And you wanna work effectively what I'm saying is throughout this entire 10 step process is going to be, you wanna make sure that there are the nonnegotiables that are in your life that you know are going to be ahead of your fitness program, and you want to work with those things, not against them.

对吧？

Right?

因为生活总会占上风。

Because life will win.

无论是关于你的孩子，还是关于你的工作，生活都会占上风。

When it comes to your children, when it comes to your job, life is going to win.

你必须放弃一些东西。

You're going to have to give up something.

这需要付出艰苦的努力。

It's gonna take some hard work.

但我们希望为大多数人争取正确的战斗。

But we wanna fight the right battles for most people.

对吧？

Right?

即使是我们的职业运动员也是如此。

Even for our professional athletes.

我们经常遇到这种情况。

We get this all the time.

就好像他们除了训练之外什么也不做。

It's just like they have nothing else to do but train.

对吧？

Right?

等等，先别急。

And like, well, hold on now.

他们被交易了。

They're getting traded.

他们有经纪人处理这些事。

They have agents to deal with.

他们可能还没有合同。

They may not have a contract.

他们还有家人。

They have families.

诸如此类的事情。

Blah blah blah.

我向你保证，生活总会来打扰你。

Think life will get in the way, I promise.

所以你要打那些你能赢的仗，而不是注定会输的仗。

And so you wanna fight the battles that you can win, not ones that you're going to lose.

所以这其实就是这个游戏的本质。

And so that's really what this game is about.

所以如果问题是，我的工作太忙了。

So if the battle is, hey, my job is super hectic.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

Great.

我们会想出一个更灵活的策略。

We're gonna come up with a different strategy that's more flexible maybe.

我依然会对你严格要求。

I'm still gonna hold you to the fire.

我不会对你放松，但我们不会强迫你必须在周一、周三、周五和周六都完成锻炼。

I'm not gonna be easier on you, but we're just not going to try to set up a situation where you have to do this workout Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday.

因为你知道你的工作经常出差，你是家里唯一的收入来源，还要负担保险。

Because you know your job is on the road and you're the provide all the the, you know, income for your family and your insurance.

好的。

Okay.

不管是什么事情。

Whatever the thing is.

对吧？

Right?

这正是我们真正想要识别的。

That's what we really want to identify.

所以当我提到识别你的阻碍因素时，你需要对此进行一些深入的分析。

So when I say identify your defenders, you need to run a little bit of a critical analysis on this.

我在这里会用到一个小工具，这是我对肯尼·凯恩的一个系统所做的修改，我们称之为四象限系统。

And a little bit of a tool I'll use for this is a modification of another system I stole from Kenny Kane, which is what we call a Quadrant System.

你可以想象，你生活中的所有事情都会被归入四个类别之一。

So you can imagine everything in your life goes into one of four buckets.

明白吗？

Alright?

第一类，我就称之为事业。

Now bucket one, I'm just gonna call business.

这跟你工作、收入以及所有相关的事情有关。

And this has anything to do with your job, income, sort of all those things.

第二类是人际关系。

Bucket two is relationships.

所以，这包括家庭或感情生活，任何我们称之为人际关系的内容。

So, again, this could be family or love life, like anything that we would call relationships.

社交联系、人生意义、善意的任何事物都在这里。

Social connection, purpose, benevolent anything right there.

第三类是你的健康，第四类是你的恢复。

Bucket three is your fitness, and bucket four is your recovery.

所以我们第一步就是逐一分析，然后说：好吧。

So one of the first steps we take is we walk through this and we say, alright.

你总共有10分。

You have 10 points total.

你可以将这10分分配到这四个领域中。

And you get to distribute these 10 points across the four areas.

不是每个领域10分，你总共只有10分。

So not 10 each, you get 10 total.

我们一起来看看，你现在把分数都分配到哪里了？

And so we walk through and we say, right now, where are you giving your points?

如果你愿意，我们现在就可以为你做这个练习，或者我可以虚构一个情景。

And we could do this right now for you if you'd like, or I could make up a scenario.

你想现在做吗？

Do you want do it?

好的。

Sure.

太好了。

Great.

所以，安德鲁，在过去一个月里，如果你在这四个类别中总共只有10分，你会把最多的分数分配到哪里？

So Andrew, right now in the last month, if you had 10 points total in those four categories, where would you be distributing the most points?

是哪个类别？会分配多少分？

Which category and how many points would that be?

商业，我的工作。

Business, my work.

商业、工作、职业，所有这些方面。

Business, work, jobs, sort of all those things.

对。

Right.

在10分中占多少？

And how many out of 10?

但说实话，这从来都不像传统意义上的工作。

Which doesn't, I should say, ever quite feel like work.

经营实验室和做播客，从来都不像传统意义上的工作，但它确实是我的事业。

Running a laboratory and doing the podcast doesn't ever really feel like work in the traditional sense, but it's career.

这是工作。

It's work.

这涉及人际关系，但肯定不会提升我的体能，除了我的声带和恢复能力。

It involves relationships, but it certainly doesn't enhance my fitness, except of my vocal cords, and recovery.

所以根据这些要点，我会给四到五分。

So with those notes there, I would say four to five.

你来定。

You pick.

5分。

5.

5分，合理。

5, fair.

这是最常见的分数。

That's the most common number.

5分，事业5分。

5, business 5.

很好。

Great.

再说一遍，我是个普通人，这让我很开心。

Once again, I'm typical, which makes me happy.

你说到点子上了。

You nailed it.

这是我被指责为正常人的少数方式之一。

One of the few ways in which I've been accused of being normal.

我给事业打5分。

I pick 5 for business.

别开玩笑了。

No kidding.

下一个最高的分数是多少？是多少分？

What's the next highest, and what's that score?

我确实会在人际关系上投资。

I do invest in relationships.

我会说，必须是整数吗？还是可以是小数？

I would say, does it have to be around, can it be a It has be a whole integer.

哦，一个完整的整数。

Oh, a whole integer.

二。

Two.

二。

Two.

好的。

Alright.

我们这里得了七分十分。

We're seven out of 10 here.

那么，你会说，你把大约百分之二点五的精力——不一定是时间——花在上面，是公平的吗？

So would you say it is fair that you spend roughly two and a half percent of your it's not necessarily time.

是精力、时间、专注力，所有这些方面。

It's energy, time, focus, sort of all these things.

你在事业上投入的精力是关系上的两倍半。

Two and a half times as much on your business as you do in your relationships.

这取决于具体情况。

It varies depending on what's going on.

感觉商业方面占比有点偏高，所以我可能想调整为四比三的比例。

It feels a little skewed in the direction of business, so I might want to adjust to a four three ratio there.

也许不用。

Maybe not.

但我还是会坚持五比二。

But I am gonna hold to five Okay.

五分商业，二分关系。

Two business relationships.

为了举例说明，而且你知道，这似乎并不是一个极其精确的衡量标准，可以有一些弹性。

And then just for sake of example, and because, you know, this is doesn't seem like a exceedingly precise measure, it can have some slop.

当然。

Of course.

好的。

Okay.

你会把健身和恢复放在哪里？

Where would you put fitness and recovery?

我确实会把精力投入到健身上。

I definitely put energy into fitness.

所以我也给它分配两个。

So I'm going to give that also a two.

是的。

Yep.

那剩下的是？

Which leaves?

恢复给一个。

One for recovery.

很好。

Great.

你刚才列出的，正是你能有的最典型的分配方式。

What you just laid out is, again, the most quintessential split you could have.

事实上，你对每个人做这个游戏，他们都会得出基本相同的答案，除非他们根本不锻炼之类的。

In fact, you run this game on everyone, they're gonna come up with basically the same answer, unless they don't work out or or whatever.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Okay.

所以这里有一些规则。

So a couple of rules here.

恢复的时间至少必须占你健身分配时间的一半。

Recovery must be at minimum half of your fitness allocation.

在你的情况中，二比一，你是没问题的。

In your case, two to one, you're fine.

我觉得你会说恢复必须占一半。

I think you're gonna say it has to be half.

就像必须占10分中的5分。

Like it has to be five out of 10 points.