嘉宾系列 | 马特·沃克博士：睡眠生物学与你的独特睡眠需求

欢迎来到Huberman Lab嘉宾系列节目，我与专家嘉宾将在这里探讨科学及基于科学的日常生活工具。我是Andrew Huberman，斯坦福医学院神经生物学和眼科学教授。今天的节目是我们六集睡眠系列的第一期，本系列的特邀专家是Matthew Walker博士，他是加州大学伯克利分校神经科学与心理学教授，兼睡眠科学中心主任。

Welcome to the Huberman Lab guest series, where I and an expert guest discuss science and science based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today's episode marks the first in our six episode series all about sleep. Our expert guest for this series is Doctor. Matthew Walker, Professor of Neuroscience and Psychology and the Director of the Center for Sleep Science at the University of California Berkeley.

他还是畅销书《为什么我们要睡觉》的作者。在这个每周更新一集的六集系列中（从本期第一集开始），我们将涵盖睡眠的方方面面，并提供大量改善睡眠的实用工具。例如，我们会讨论睡眠生物学，包括不同睡眠阶段，以及睡眠为何对身心健康如此重要。我们还会探讨睡眠如何调节情绪、学习及神经可塑性——即大脑根据经验改变的能力。

He is also the author of the best selling book Why We Sleep. During the course of the six episode series for which we release one episode per week, starting with this episode one, we cover essentially all aspects of sleep and provide numerous practical tools to improve your sleep. For instance, we discuss the biology of sleep, including the different sleep stages, as well as why sleep is so important for our mental and physical health. We also talk about how sleep regulates things like emotionality and learning and neuroplasticity. That is your brain's ability to change in response to experience.

同时我们将讨论各种改善睡眠的方法，从如何安排光照、温度、运动、饮食的时间，到酒精、大麻、各类补充剂和药物等对睡眠产生正负面影响的要素。我们还会谈及小睡、做梦与梦境的作用，以及清醒梦（即做梦时意识到自己在做梦）。在今天的第一集中，我们将重点探讨睡眠为何如此重要，以及睡眠不足或质量不佳时的后果，同时解析不同睡眠阶段。

And we discuss the various things that you can do to improve your sleep. Everything from how to time lighting, temperature, exercise, eating, and the various things that can impact sleep both positively and negatively such as alcohol, cannabis, and various supplements and drugs that have been shown to improve sleep. We also talk about naps, dreaming and the role of dreams, and lucid dreaming, which is when you dream and you are aware that you are dreaming. In today's episode one, we specifically focus on why sleep is so important and what happens when we do not get enough sleep or enough quality sleep. We also talk about the various sleep stages.

我们还会讨论一个每个人都应该了解的特定公式——QQRT，这是睡眠质量、数量、规律性和时机的英文首字母缩写。今天您将学会如何针对个人确定最优QQRT，并应用它来获得最佳夜间睡眠，这自然意味着白天最高水平的专注力和警觉性。Walker博士和我都非常兴奋能与大家分享这个六集系列的内容。

And we also talk about a very specific formula that everyone should know for themselves called QQRT, which is an acronym that stands for quality, quantity, regularity, and timing of sleep. Four factors which today you'll learn how to identify specifically for you what your optimal QQRT is. And then to apply that in order to get the best possible night's sleep, which of course equates to the best possible level of focus and alertness throughout your days. Both Doctor. Walker and I are very excited to share the material in this six episode series with all of you.

随着我们进入今天的第一集，我相信它不仅能为大家提供大量实用的知识，还会引发许多问题，这些都将在后续剧集中得到解答。节目开始前，我想强调本播客与我在斯坦福的教学和研究职责无关，但它体现了我向公众零成本传播科学及相关工具信息的愿望和努力。秉承这一理念，我要感谢本期播客的赞助商。首赞是Eight Sleep。

And as we march into today's episode one, I'm sure it will both provide a ton of excellent practical learning for all of you, as well as spark many questions that are sure to be answered in the subsequent episodes of this series. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Eight Sleep.

Eight Sleep生产具有冷却、加热和睡眠追踪功能的智能床垫罩。在本播客中我们多次讨论过，为了进入并保持深度睡眠，体温实际上需要下降约1-3度；而为了醒来时感觉最大程度清爽和精力充沛，体温需要上升约1-3度。Eight Sleep让控制睡眠环境温度变得非常容易，助您轻松入眠、保持睡眠、清新醒来。我几年前开始使用Eight Sleep床垫罩，它彻底积极地改变了我的睡眠。

Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity. Many times on this podcast, we discuss how in order to fall and stay deeply asleep, your body temperature actually needs to drop by about one to three degrees. And in order to wake up feeling maximally refreshed and energized, your body temperature needs to heat up by about one to three degrees. Eight Sleep makes it very easy to control the temperature of your sleeping environment so that it's easy to fall and stay asleep and wake up feeling refreshed. I started sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover several years ago, and it has completely and positively transformed my sleep.

以至于我出差住酒店或爱彼迎时，非常想念我的Eight Sleep。我甚至曾将它寄到我入住的酒店，因为它极大地提升了我的睡眠质量。如果您想尝试Eight Sleep，可以访问8sleep.com/huberman，他们的Pod 3床罩可享150美元优惠。Eight Sleep目前配送至美国、加拿大、英国、部分欧盟国家和澳大利亚。再次提醒：8sleep.com/huberman。

So much so that when I travel to hotels or Airbnb's, I really miss my Eight Sleep. I've even shipped my Eight Sleep out to hotels that I've been staying in because it improves my sleep that much. If you'd like to try Eight Sleep, you can go to 8sleep.com/huberman to save a $150 off their pod three cover. Eight Sleep currently ships to The USA, Canada, UK, select countries in The EU, and Australia. Again, that's 8sleep.com/huberman.

本期节目也由BetterHelp赞助。BetterHelp提供持证治疗师的在线专业 therapy服务。我接受therapy已超过三十年，最初并非自愿，但后来持续主动进行，因为我坚信与优秀治疗师定期交流是对心理健康最有益的事情之一。对许多人来说，其益处不亚于定期体育锻炼。

Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out online. I've been doing therapy for well over thirty years. Initially, had to do therapy against my will, but of course, I continued to do it voluntarily over time, because I really believe that doing regular therapy with a quality therapist is one of the best things that we can do for our mental health. Indeed, for many people, it's as beneficial as getting regular physical exercise.

BetterHelp的优点是能轻松找到最适合您需求的治疗师。我认为可以这样定义优秀治疗师：与您有极佳默契，能探讨各种问题，不仅提供支持，还给予洞察。BetterHelp使其非常便利，适配您的日程和生活其他方面。如果您想尝试BetterHelp，请访问betterhelp.com/huberman，首月可享9折优惠。再次提醒：betterhelp.com/huberman。

The great thing about BetterHelp is that it makes it very easy to find a therapist that's optimal for your needs. And I think it's fair to say that we can define a great therapist as somebody with whom you have excellent rapport, somebody with whom you can talk about a variety of different issues, and who can provide you not just support, but also insight. And with BetterHelp, they make it extremely convenient so that it's matched to your schedule and other aspects of your life. If you'd like to try BetterHelp, you can go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman.

本期节目还由Element赞助。Element是一款电解质饮料，包含您所需的一切，而无多余成分——即富含镁、钾、钠电解质，无糖。如我之前在播客中所提，我是盐的忠实拥趸。在此我想明确说明。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Element. Element is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means plenty of the electrolytes magnesium, potassium, and sodium and no sugar. As I mentioned before on this podcast, I'm a big fan of salt. Now I want to be clear.

已经摄入大量盐分、患有高血压、或经常食用通常含盐的加工食品的人群需要控制盐的摄入。然而，如果你饮食相对清淡、经常锻炼、并且大量饮水，那么通过液体摄入更多电解质很可能对你有益。这是因为我们体内的所有细胞，包括神经细胞和神经元，都需要电解质才能正常运作。所以我们不仅要补水，还要确保电解质水平适当。使用Element产品，这很容易做到。

People who already consume a lot of salt, or who have high blood pressure, or who happen to consume a lot of processed foods that typically contain salt, need to control their salt intake. However, if you're somebody who eats pretty clean, and you're somebody who exercises, and you're drinking a lot of water, there's a decent chance that you could benefit from ingesting more electrolytes with your liquids. The reason for that is that all the cells in our body, including the nerve cells, the neurons, require the electrolytes in order to function properly. So we don't just want to be hydrated, we want to be hydrated with proper electrolyte levels. With Element, that's very easy to do.

我的做法是：早上起床后喝约16到32盎司的水，并在水中溶解一包Element。锻炼时我也会这样做，尤其是在炎热天气大量出汗时。如果锻炼强度很大或出汗很多，或者我注意到饮食中盐分摄入不足，有时我甚至会喝第三包Element水溶液。如果你想尝试Element，可以访问drinkelement.com/huberman（拼写为lmnt），购买即可获赠免费样品包。再次提醒，网址是drinkelement.com/huberman。现在开始我与博士的对话。

What I do is when I wake up in the morning, consume about 16 to 32 ounces of water, and I'll dissolve a packet of Element in that water. I'll also do the same when I exercise, especially if it's on a hot day and I'm sweating a lot, Sometimes I'll even have a third Element packet dissolved in water if I'm exercising really hard or sweating a lot, or if I just notice that I'm not consuming enough salt with my food. If you'd like to try Element, you can go to drink Element, spelled lmnt,.com/huberman to claim a free Element sample pack with your purchase. Again, that's drink Element, lmnt.com/huberman. And now for my conversation with Doctor.

Matthew Walker博士。Matt Walker博士，欢迎您。

Matthew Walker. Doctor. Matt Walker, welcome.

Huberman博士，非常荣幸且高兴能再次做客。

Doctor. Huberman, it's an absolute privilege and a delight to be back.

没错。您之前来过节目，但在这个系列中我们将进行更深入的探讨。顺便说一句，您看起来休息得非常好。

That's right. You've been on here before, but during this episode in this series, we are going to go a lot deeper. By the way, you look very well rested.

非常感谢。尽管在陌生环境，我昨晚确实睡得不错。同一时区帮助巨大，效果惊人。好了，与其问您

Thank you very much. I actually slept pretty well last night, despite it being a foreign location. Same time zone, that helps just astronomically. Amazing. Well, rather than ask you

对您而言什么是优质睡眠——因为我确信您会告诉我们存在个体差异，人们需要关注所谓'最佳睡眠'的个性化定义——让我们从基础开始：什么是睡眠？

what a great night's sleep is for you, because I'm pretty sure you're gonna tell us that there's some individual differences that people need to pay attention to in terms of what is quote unquote, optimal sleep. Let's start off with the basics. What is sleep?

我认为睡眠可以从某些角度定义为——至少在人类乃至所有哺乳动物中——大致分为两种主要类型。一种是许多人听说过的非快速眼动睡眠（简称非REM睡眠）。非REM睡眠进一步分为四个独立阶段，按睡眠深度递增被直接命名为阶段一到四。其中阶段三和四是我们所说的深度睡眠，后续我会解释大脑在此状态下的活动，

So sleep, I think, in some ways, you can define as, at least in humans, and in fact, in all mammalian species, is broadly separated into two main types of sleep. On the one hand, we have something that many people will have heard of called non rapid eye movement sleep or non REM sleep for short. And non REM sleep has been further subdivided into four separate stages and they are unimaginatively called stages one through four, increasing in their depth of sleep. So stages three and four, that's the really deep sleep that we can speak about. And I should explain a little bit at some point what happens during that state within the brain.

这些活动非常震撼且惊人。阶段一和二是浅度非REM睡眠（查看睡眠追踪器时会显示为浅度非REM、深度非REM和REM）。阶段三和四属于深度非REM睡眠，这就是非REM睡眠的构成。

It's stunning. It's astonishing. So you've got stages one and two, light non REM sleep. When you sort of look at your sleep trackers and it has light non REM, deep non REM, and then REM. Stages one and two, that's light non REM.

另一方面是快速眼动睡眠（REM睡眠）。其命名并非源自1990年代迈克尔·斯蒂普的知名乐队，而是因为此阶段会出现奇特的水平往返眼动，故称快速眼动。根据定义（后续剧集可能会讨论），REM睡眠是我们主要做梦的阶段。

Stages three and four, that's deep non REM. And that's non REM encapsulated. On the other hand, we have rapid eye movement sleep or REM sleep. And it's named not after the popular Michael Stipe band of the 1990s, but because of these bizarre horizontal shuttling eye movements that occur during this stage of sleep, hence the rapid eye movements. And REM sleep is the, depending on your definition, and we'll probably come to this in later episodes, it's the principal stage in which we dream.

但如果你定义得比较宽松，即任何在我叫醒你或你醒来时报告的心理活动，那么事实证明我们在睡眠的几乎每个阶段都会做梦。不过从现在开始，我将把快速眼动睡眠描述为可能是梦睡眠，并接受这个不太准确的说法。所以你有这两种类型的睡眠：非快速眼动睡眠和快速眼动睡眠。它们将在整个夜晚为争夺大脑主导权展开一场美妙的较量。对普通成年人来说，这场大脑战争平均每九十分钟就会决出胜负。

But if your definition is quite loose, which is any reported mental activity when I wake you up or when you wake up, then it turns out that we dream in almost every stage of sleep. But I'll describe REM sleep from here on in as perhaps dream sleep, and I'll make that faux pas. So you've got these two types of sleep, non REM and REM sleep. They will then play out in this beautiful battle for brain domination throughout the night. And that cerebral war is going to be won and lost on average for the average adult every ninety minutes.

然后每90分钟会重新上演一次。这就形成了标准的睡眠周期结构。所以无论谁在听这个，今晚当你头靠上枕头时会发生什么？你会先进入浅度非快速眼动睡眠阶段，然后进入深度非快速眼动睡眠阶段，并停留在那里。大约四十五、五十、六十分钟后，你会开始重新上升，然后突然进入一个短暂的快速眼动睡眠期。

And then it's going to be replayed every 90. And that creates the standard cycling architecture of sleep. So whoever's listening to this, when your head hits the pillow tonight, what will happen? You'll start to go down into the light stages of non REM, then you'll go down into the deeper stages of non REM sleep, and you'll stay there. And after about forty five, fifty, sixty minutes, you'll start to rise back up again, and then you'll pop up and you'll have a short REM sleep period.

然后你会再次下降，进入非快速眼动睡眠，再上升到快速眼动睡眠。正如我所说，你平均每九十分钟循环一次，但我会再回到这点。然而有趣的是，在九十分钟周期内，非快速眼动睡眠与快速眼动睡眠的比例并不稳定。我的意思是，随着夜晚的推移，这两种睡眠在九十分钟周期内的主导地位会发生变化——在前半夜，这些九十分钟周期主要由大量的深度非快速眼动睡眠组成，但快速眼动睡眠很少。但当我们进入后半夜时，这种比例平衡、这种跷跷板平衡会发生转变，取而代之的是更多的快速眼动睡眠和很少的深度睡眠。

And then back down you go again, down into non REM sleep and up into REM sleep. And as I said, you cycle through that on average about ninety minutes, but I'll come back to that. What's interesting, however, is the ratio of non REM to REM within your ninety minute cycle is not stable. And what I mean is as you move across the night, the domination of those two types of sleep within the ninety minute cycle changes such that in the first half of the night, the majority of those ninety minute cycles are comprised of lots of deep non REM sleep, but very little REM sleep. But as we push through to the second half of the night, now that ratio balance, that seesaw balance shifts over, and instead we have much more rapid eye movement sleep and very little deep sleep.

所以当人们认为：好吧，我只是去睡觉，失去意识，我的大脑是静止的。首先，就你的睡眠而言，没有比这更偏离事实的说法了。其次，你的睡眠具有非常特定的模式，这对现实生活有影响。假设你通常给自己八小时的床上睡眠时间。但第二天早上，根据我刚才告诉你的，你说：好吧，我想提前开始一天，或者我有早班飞机。

So when people think about, okay, I just go to sleep, I lose consciousness, my brain is still. Firstly, nothing further from the truth could be the case in terms of your sleep. Second, your sleep has a very specific pattern that has consequences to real life. So let's say that you're someone who normally gives yourself an eight hour sleep opportunity in bed. But the next morning, based on what I've just told you, you say, okay, well, I want to, I'm gonna get a jumpstart on the day, or I've got an early morning flight.

所以我这里只是举例说明数字，绝不是建议这是理想的睡眠时间表，只是为了简化数字。假设有人通常午夜睡觉，八点起床。所以有八小时的睡眠机会。但今天，他们要在早上6点而不是8点起床，以便提前开始一天。

So I'm just going to come up with numbers here. I'm not suggesting that this is the ideal sleep schedule by any means, but just to make the numbers simple. Let's say someone normally goes to bed at midnight and wakes up at eight. So there's that eight hour opportunity. But today, they're gonna wake up at 6AM rather than 8AM to get this push on the day.

他们失去了多少睡眠？从技术上讲，他们失去了八小时中的两小时，所以失去了25%。但这并不完全正确。他们可能失去了总睡眠的25%，但由于先深度睡眠后快速眼动睡眠的奇特结构，他们可能失去了60%、70%，甚至80%的快速眼动睡眠。我提出这一点是因为理解睡眠的结构会带来实际影响。

How much sleep have they lost? Well, technically they've lost two hours of their eight hour, so they've lost 25%. But that's not entirely true. They may have lost 25% of their total sleep, but because of the strange structure of deep sleep first and then REM sleep later, they may have lost sixty, seventy, maybe 80% of their REM sleep. So I only make this point because understanding how sleep is structured can have consequences.

不过我会再回到九十分钟这个话题。这很迷人。我们经常——可能有些人之前听说过——这是一个九十分钟的周期。但其实存在巨大差异。有些人的平均睡眠周期可能是七十五分钟，另一些人则是一百二十分钟。

I will come back to the ninety minutes though. It's fascinating. We've often, and some people probably have heard this before, it's a ninety minute cycle. Well, there's huge variability. Some people can have a sleep cycle on average that's maybe seventy five minutes, others one hundred and twenty minutes.

这对个体来说是一致的吗？

Is it consistent with an individual?

在个体内部是相对稳定的。所以我认为个体之间的差异大小远大于个体内部一夜又一夜的差异大小。

It is relatively stable within an individual. So I would say that the size of the difference from one individual to the next is much bigger than the size of the difference within an individual from one night to the next to the next.

这很像女性健康的月经周期，短至24天长达31天仍可被视为规律的健康周期。当然，它会在生命周期中发生变化。但在相当长的时间里，特定女性的周期会相当一致。然而女性之间的周期可能差异很大。

Not unlike a healthy menstrual cycle in a woman, which can range from as short as, you know, twenty four days to thirty one days and still be considered a healthy cycle that's regular. But and it will change across the lifespan, of course. But for a good number of years, it's going to be pretty consistent within a given woman. And yet between women, it can vary quite a bit.

非常感兴趣。同样有趣的是，谈到一些性别特有的现象，确实存在性别差异。平均而言，男性的睡眠周期比女性长约15到20分钟，这在90分钟的平均周期里实际上相当显著。我提到这一点是因为你可能见过某些说法或设备——首先可能是在社交媒体上，人们常把这些发给我问：这是真的吗？

Immensely. And what's also interesting is that speaking about some sex specific things, there are sex differences. So on average, men, if you look at them, will have a sleep cycle that's about fifteen to twenty minutes longer than women, which on a ninety minute average is actually quite a lot. And I bring this point up because you may have seen some of those sort of claims or devices out there. Well, firstly, probably on social media and people send me these things and say, Is this true?

也就是你必须严格按照这些精确的90分钟节点来安排起床时间，当时钟指向90分钟整点（比如午夜），你就必须醒来，并设置闹钟。

Which is you really have to structure your wake up time at these very distinct ninety minute on the clock when the clock strikes the ninety minute midnight, you know, that's when you have to be waking up and you should set your alarm.

对。那些设备的理论依据——你可能会告诉我这是错的——是认为在90分钟周期结束时醒来，比在周期中途醒来更好，即使这意味着总睡眠时间更少。因为他们的论点是，在周期结束时醒来能让人更清醒。

Right. The rationale, you'll tell me that it's wrong, presumably, but the rationale of those devices is that one would be better off waking up at the end of a ninety minute cycle, as opposed to in the middle of a ninety minute cycle, even if it means getting less total sleep. Because the argument is that waking up at the end of a ninety minute cycle allows one to be more alert upon waking.

没错。就是说完成一个90分钟周期有什么特别神奇之处，能让你像劲量兔子一样精力充沛地醒来，这是他们的一些宣传说法

Right. That there's something uniquely special about the completion of a ninety minute cycle that will have you ejected out of sleep feeling like an Energizer bunny, kind of that's some of the claims that they're

如果我现在问你，

if I were to ask asking you now,

真假？假的。所以尽可能多睡。不要因为任何人告诉你存在这种达芬奇密码般的90分钟魔法而人为中断睡眠。遗憾的是，这并不属实。

true or false? False. So sleep for as much as you possibly can sleep. Don't terminate that sleep artificially on the basis of anyone telling you that there is this kind of Da Vinci Code magic ninety minutes. That's unfortunately not true.

我自己也曾犯过错误，重复说过'这是个90分钟周期'。如果我不懂更多，我也会相信这个说法。所以我并不是要指责任何人，只是希望大家意识到这一点，不要为此担心，不要为这个独特的90分钟周期焦虑。

And I, you know, I've been guilty of saying, you know, it's a ninety minute cycle and repeating that. So if I didn't know any better, I would believe that. So I'm not trying to, you know, chastise anyone. I'm just simply saying, be aware of that and don't worry. Don't stress about this unique ninety minute cycle.

市面上有些产品声称能根据你的90分钟周期定时唤醒你。我可能会对其中一些保持距离。

And there's some products out there that say they're going to time you on your ninety minute cycle and wake you up. I would probably stay a little bit clear of some of those.

那再睡个回笼觉呢？你说要尽可能多睡。如果我睡了6小时后醒来，觉得自己还能再睡，而工作安排又允许的话，继续睡会更好吗？还是说达到一定睡眠时长后就应该起床活动？

What about going back to sleep? You said to get as much sleep as possible. If I get six hours of sleep and then wake up and I feel like I could go back to sleep, would I be better off going back to sleep provided that my work schedule allows for that? Or is it the case that after you've gotten a certain amount of sleep, that's a good idea to get up and go?

我认为如果你感觉还能再睡，那就睡。或者——我喜欢这立刻变成个人经历了，这样录出来的节目效果肯定好——我会说：坚持住，待在床上（稍后我会补充一个星号说明），看看能否重新入睡。

I would say that if you feel as though there's still more sleep in you. There is. Or I love that this has become biographical instantly. It's gonna be a good episode when that happens. I would say hold tight, stay in bed with an asterisk that I'll come back to and see if you can get back to sleep.

我们可以讨论各种方法来帮助你做到这一点。但我之所以加上一个小小的星号标记，原因如下：如果你接下来四十五到五十分钟都躺在床上却完全清醒，危险在于——虽然并非每个人都会这样——你可能会开始将'床'这个东西与'清醒'而非'睡眠'联系起来。在失眠的认知行为疗法中，我们努力避免你长时间保持清醒。我建议大概以二十五分钟作为经验法则。

And we can speak about different ways of helping you do that. But the reason I put a slight asterisk there is the following. If you are then in bed for the next forty five, fifty minutes wide awake, the danger, and it doesn't happen to everyone, but the danger is that you start to associate this thing called your bed with this thing called wakefulness and not sleep. And one of the things that we do in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia is we try to prevent you from spending long periods of time awake. And I would say it's probably about a twenty five minute rule of thumb.

这不是硬性规定，而是经验法则。如果大约二十五分钟后你仍然无法入睡，且这种情况经常发生，我就需要提醒你注意：你可能开始在大脑中建立一种关联，认为床也是保持清醒的地方。类比来说，你永远不会坐在餐桌前等待饥饿感来临。那么为什么要躺在床上等待睡意呢？答案是：你不应该这样做。

It's not a rule, it's a rule of thumb. If after about twenty five minutes, you just can't seem to catch it, and this is happening frequently, I would just be mindful of you then starting to build a bonded association in your brain that your bed is also the place of being awake. The analogy would be, you would never sit at the dinner table waiting to get hungry. So why would you lie in bed waiting to get sleepy? And the answer is that you shouldn't.

所以我们需要打破这种关联。不过，你完全可以说：我体内还有睡意，我知道它存在。我会起床去另一个房间，看看书或听听播客。

And so we need to break that association. Now there's nothing stopping you, however, from saying there's still sleep in me. I know that there is. So I'm just going to get out of bed, go to a different room. I'm just going to read a book, listen to a podcast.

只有当感到困倦时，我才会回到床上——只要我的时间安排允许。如果你认为睡眠还在，想要找回它，这是我能告诉你的最佳方式。

And then only when I feel sleepy, I'm going to go back to bed because my schedule allows for it. That's the best way I would tell you if you still think the sleep on the table to try and get it back.

了解到在床上清醒存在某种条件反射效应，这非常有价值。我必须说，大多数时候我睡眠很好，但人生某些阶段——包括最近——睡眠变得很有挑战性。我注意到最近走向床铺时，脑海里的声音是：这就是战场。仿佛今晚将会是入睡、醒来、再入睡、再醒来的循环。

That's immensely valuable knowing that there's sort of a conditioned place effect of being awake in bed. I must say I get pretty good sleep most of the time. There've been phases of life, including recently where sleep has been challenging. And I noticed as I head toward the bed to go to sleep recently, the words in my mind are here's the battleground. Like it's going to be a night of going to sleep, waking up, going to sleep, waking up.

我们稍后会讨论睡眠连续性的问题，现在不必深入。

We'll get to this business of continuity of sleep a little bit later, so we don't have to go into that now,

但我也要顺便指出——因为你提到了这点，说得很好——有些人和我交流时会说：我很惊讶，我在沙发上看着电视就睡着了，但一上床却完全清醒，不知为何。这部分原因就是你在大脑中建立了这种关联。当你走进卧室时，这正是我们通过失眠认知行为疗法试图解决的问题。

but I should also note, by the way, that for some people, when I speak with them, they will And it's just because you mentioned it, it's beautiful. They will be saying, I'm so surprised because I am watching television and I'm falling asleep on the couch. And then I get into bed and I'm wide awake and I don't know why. And that's because in part you've built this connection in your brain. And when you go into the bedroom, that's what we try to do with cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia.

你将其描述为战场，几乎是敌对的关系，这某种程度上意味着你感觉被睡眠控制，这是一种非常痛苦的感受。我们会逐步帮助患者实现转变，最终让你掌控睡眠，而不是被睡眠控制。当你达到这种状态时，会感受到极大的自由。

You spoke about it as a battleground that it's almost this adversarial thing, which in some ways infers that at that point you feel as though your sleep controls you, and it is a miserable feeling. And gradually over time, what we would do is work with someone. And at that point now, you control your sleep. Your sleep doesn't control you. And that is such a freedom when you get it.

抱歉，我打断你了。

But sorry, I interrupted you.

哦不，是我打断你了，谢谢。我一生都以能够随时随地入睡而自豪，这是从我的斗牛犬科斯特洛那里学来的，也许正是这一点让我们结缘，因为他确实具备这种能力。

Oh, no, I interrupted you, but thank you. Yeah, I've prided myself my whole life on being able to sleep anytime, anywhere. I learned it from my bulldog Costello, or maybe that's what brought us together, because he certainly had that

我很难过他不再和我们在一起了，因为我真的很希望他能感受到自己是睡眠大使的最佳人选，如果要说优质睡眠的形象代言人。

I'm so sad he's not here around anymore with us, because I would have loved he feels like he is the best sleep ambassador, if there's a post child for good sleep.

不过他的精神在这里安眠着。这很有趣，我认为大家有必要了解：如果你无法入睡，或者半夜醒来后大约20分钟左右仍无法快速重新入睡，最好还是起床。是的。这些大约90分钟的睡眠周期包含不同类型的睡眠，这让我想问——如果要描述这四个睡眠阶段的基本特征，特别是深睡阶段（第三和第四阶段）以及快速眼动睡眠，不仅是从快速眼动期间的眼球运动层面，还包括各类梦境的特征或身体状态的特点，或许你可以详细说明其生理机制、神经化学过程，并谈谈与这些不同睡眠阶段相关的梦境特征。

Well, he's here in spirit, sleeping. So this is interesting, and I think it's important for people to hear. If if you can't fall asleep or if you wake up in the middle of the night and you can't fall back asleep pretty quickly after about twenty minutes or so, probably best to get out of bed. Yeah. So these ninety minute ish cycles that include different types of sleep prompt me to ask, if you were to describe the basic characteristics of each of those four stages of sleep, and especially the deeper stages, three and four, and REM sleep, not just at the level of rapid eye movements during REM sleep, but in terms of the types of dreams or the characteristics of kind of bodily state, You know, maybe you just flesh out the physiology and neurochemistry and, you know, touch on kind of the dream features associated with each of these different stages of sleep.

这真的让我非常兴奋。即使现在当我进入实验室或查看睡眠中心的睡眠记录时，我仍然对大脑的活动感到惊叹和不可思议的敬畏。当我们开始进入较浅的睡眠阶段，度过第一阶段（那种近乎浅滩、只是等待入睡的状态）后，就会进入第二阶段睡眠。第二阶段非快速眼动睡眠的一个标志是所谓的睡眠纺锤波。顺便说一下，我们在实验室测量睡眠的方式是给你贴上电极，看起来像意大利面怪物。

This just gets so exciting to me. And even now when I go into the lab or I look at sleep traces from my sleep center, I am still in awe, in bewildered awe of what the brain does. So as we start to fall into those lighter stages of sleep, once you get past stage one sleep, which is sort of almost the shallows where you're just waiting out, Then you go into stage two sleep. And one of the hallmarks of stage two non REM sleep are something called sleep spindles. And the way that we measure sleep in a laboratory, by the way, is that we place, you look like a spaghetti monster.

你头上贴满了电极，眼睛上方和身体上也有各种传感器。我们主要测量三个信号：脑电活动、肌肉活动和眼动活动。我会解释为什么需要这三个信号来判断你是清醒还是睡眠状态。

You've got all of these electrodes on your head. You've got things above your eyes and you've got things on your body. And we're essentially measuring three main signals, electrical brain activity, we're measuring muscle activity, and we're measuring eye movement activity. And I'll explain why those three things are necessary for me to know, are you awake? Are you in sleep?

以及如果你在睡眠中，处于哪个睡眠阶段。进入第二阶段非快速眼动睡眠时，会出现这些睡眠纺锤波。此时我观察的是你大脑的电信号，即我们所说的脑电图（EEG）。这些睡眠纺锤波是短暂而同步的电活动爆发，非常美妙，持续时间约一到两秒，可能稍长一些。

And if you're in sleep, which stage of sleep you're in. So going into that stage two non REM sleep, we've got these sleep spindles. And at that point, I'm looking at the electrical signals from your brain, what we call the EEG or the electroencephalogram. And these sleep spindles are these beautiful, short, synchronous bursts of electrical activity. And they last for about a second to two seconds, maybe a little longer.

它们以12到15赫兹的频率爆发，这意味着这些脑电波每秒上下波动12到15次。这就是我们测量的12到15赫兹。之后大脑活动开始放缓。清醒时，脑电波活动可能每秒波动20、30甚至40次。

And they are bursting at what we call a frequency of somewhere between 12 to 15 Hertz. And what that means is that these brain waves are going up and down 12 to 15 times per second. That's what our measure is, 12 to 15 Hertz. And then you go back and your brain at that point has started to slow down. Now, when we're awake, your brainwave activity can be going up and down maybe twenty, thirty, 40 times per second.

非常快速而狂乱，实际上是相当混乱的脑电活动。但随着进入较浅的睡眠阶段，大脑开始减速。在第二阶段非快速眼动睡眠时，可能每秒只波动4到8次，脑电活动大幅减缓。

It's very fast and frenetic. It's actually very chaotic electrical brain activity. But as we're going into these lighter stages of sleep, then the brain starts to slow down. And at that point in stage two non REM, it's maybe going up and down just four to eight times per second. So a huge deceleration in terms of brainwave activity.

但偶尔会出现这种波动，然后迸发出美妙的睡眠纺锤波。实际上我曾做过一个项目（从未公开出版），叫“睡眠声化”，我们将这些电信号转化为声波。你可以听到大脑减速时那种美妙的搏动声，接着是纺锤波的声音，几乎像印地语中那个优美动听的滚动音'r'。

But occasionally you'll get these sort of cysts going, and then you'll get these beautiful bursts of these sleep spindles. I actually did, I've never published it publicly, or we did a project called the sonification of sleep. And we took these electrical signals and then we turned them into sound waves. And you can actually hear this beautiful sort of, it's almost this beautiful throbbing of a slowdown in your brain, and then you'll hear these spindles. Almost sounds like that beautiful, delicious rolling r in Hindi.

真是太奇妙了。我不确定我

So it's wonderful. I'm not sure I

能发出那个音。是怎么发的？

can do that r. How does it go?

是的，没那么糟对吧？好吧。不算太糟。我的意思是，我们有点偏向猫科动物那边了，不过没关系，安德鲁。所以回到——我真的很抱歉。

Yeah, not too that right? Okay. Not too bad. I mean, we're airing on the side of feline, but that's okay, Andrew. So coming back to I'm so sorry.

回到睡眠，我们已经进入了轻度第二阶段，当我拼命保持清醒时，我们正进入更深的非快速眼动睡眠。现在，一些壮观的事情发生了。这就是我每次看到都几乎要失控的地方。大脑现在回落，其上下振荡的速度可能只有每秒一两次。

Coming back to sleep, we've gone into light stage two, as I'm trying to desperately hold it together, and we're going down into deeper non REM sleep. Now something spectacular happens. And this is where I just almost lose it every time I see it. The brain now goes back down and its speed of oscillation of going up and down is maybe just one or two times per second.

这慢得令人难以置信。这是全脑活动还是局部活动？

It's incredibly slow. And this is whole brain activity or localized activity?

这个，我们稍后会谈到。起初，我们测量它的方式只是通过这些电极，它们测量的是下方数十万个脑细胞的活动。一个好的类比是，假设你在一个足球体育场，斯坦福队和伯克利队正在进行美式足球比赛。我们有一个单独的麦克风悬挂在体育场中央。那个麦克风正在拾取下方六、七万人的集体声音。

This is, so we'll come on to this. At first, the way we would measure it is just from these electrodes, which are measuring hundreds of thousands of brain cells underneath them. So a good analogy would be, let's say you're at a football stadium and it's Stanford playing Berkeley in American football. And what we've got is a single microphone dangling over the middle of the stadium. And that microphone is picking up the summed voices of the sixty, seventy thousand people underneath.

当我们在你头上放置一个电极时，情况是一样的，你测量的是下方数十万个神经元的汇总活动。但我们现在开始使用大约100到200个电极放在你头上，我们可以在大脑的局部区域捕捉这些信号。但是我们在深度非快速眼动睡眠第三和第四阶段获得的那些美丽、强大、缓慢的脑波，不仅仅是缓慢的活动。你可能会想，好吧，听起来大脑处于休眠状态。不，不，不。

It's the same thing with when we place an electrode on your head, you're measuring the summed activity of hundreds of thousands of neurons underneath. But we've now started to use maybe 100, 200 electrodes on your head, and we can pick these up in local territories of your brain. But that beautiful, powerful, slow brain waves that we're getting during deep non REM stages three and four, it's not just slow activity. You would think, okay, that sounds like the brain is dormant. No, no, no.

那时的大脑，波的大小几乎是醒着时的四倍，甚至可能是10倍。为什么？这意味着脑波上下波动非常缓慢，但它们的大小，也就是我们所说的振幅，现在非常巨大。是史诗级的。所以想一想。

The brain at that point, the size of the waves is almost quadruple, maybe 10x the size of the brain waves when you are awake. Why is that? Meaning that the brain waves are going up and down very slowly, but the size of them, which is what we call the amplitude, that is now huge. It's epic. So think about it.

你在海滩上。当你醒着时，海浪来得非常非常快，但是小浪，而且是以随机的方式来的。但深度慢波睡眠就像是夏威夷会发生的那种史诗级巨浪，你会有这些二三十英尺高的浪，它们来得非常缓慢，但规模巨大。那就是深度慢波睡眠。然后，在这些巨大缓慢的波之上，还有这些睡眠纺锤波。

You're on the beach. And when you're awake, the waves are coming in very, very quickly, but the small waves and they're coming in in a random fashion. But deep slow wave sleep are these kind of epic things that would happen in Hawaii, where you just get these twenty, thirty foot waves and they're coming in very slowly, but they are epically big. That is deep, slow wave sleep. And then what happens is riding on top of those big, slow waves are these sleep spindles.

它们不断出现。所以根据睡眠声音化项目，你现在会听到的是，这些慢波会是... 那就是慢波和睡眠纺锤波。不过，针对你的问题，大脑中发生了什么来产生这些慢波？好吧，让我们回到足球体育场的类比。在那之前，比赛前，那是清醒状态。

They just keep coming. So according to the sort of the sleep sonification project, what you would hear now, these slow waves would be That's the slow wave and the sleep spindle. What is it that happens in your brain, though, to your question, to produce these slow waves? Well, let's go back to the football stadium analogy. There before the game, that's wakefulness.

每个人在体育场的不同区域进行着不同的对话，你只会听到这种不连贯的喋喋不休。那就是清醒。你的大脑在不同位置做着不同的事情，在不同时刻处理不同的信息。那就是清醒时快速狂热的脑活动。当你进入深度睡眠时，突然之间，出于我们仍不完全理解的原因，你皮层中的数十万个脑细胞都决定统一它们放电的单一声音。

Everyone is having a different conversation in a different part of the stadium, and you just get this kind of incoherent sort of blabber that's going on. That's wake. Your brain is doing different things at different sort of locations of the brain processing different information at different moments in time. And that's the fast frenetic activity of wakefulness. When you go into deep sleep, all of a sudden, for reasons that we still don't quite understand, hundreds of thousands of brain cells in your cortex all decide to unite in their singular voice of firing.

它们全部一起放电，然后全部一起静默。它们全部一起放电，然后全部一起静默。这就是产生这些巨大、强大脑波的原因。所以在足球体育场的类比中，在这一点上，我会提到你的大学，斯坦福队赢了，人群情绪高涨。突然之间，斯坦福的人群开始唱：‘伯克利烂透了’。

And they all fire together, and they all go silent together. They all fire together, and they all go silent together. And that's what's producing these huge, big, powerful waves. So the analogy in the football stadium would be, at this point now, and I'll come across to your university, Stanford is winning, and crowd is buoyant. And all of a sudden, the Stanford crowd is singing, Berkeley sucks.

伯克利太棒了。而且他们全都团结一致。整个体育场同时呐喊，又同时安静下来。这是一种史诗级的协调神经活动展示，我们在其他任何大脑状态下都看不到这种景象。这现象太非凡了。

Berkeley sucks. And they're all united. The whole stadium cries out at the same time and then goes silent at the same time. It's an epic display of coordinated neural activity in a way that we don't see in any other brain state. It's phenomenal.

简直令人惊叹。

It's just in awe.

你回答了我正要问的问题：你刚才描述的大脑活动模式是否在清醒状态的任何类似或相同形式中出现？我想你刚才的答案是否定的。也就是说，如果我理解正确的话，这是一种非常非常特殊的大脑状态，为睡眠所独有，为特定睡眠阶段所独有。这就引出了一个问题：它到底在做什么？

You answered the question I was going to ask, which is, does the pattern of brain activity that you just described occur in similar or identical form during any waking states? And I think you just said the answer is no. Meaning, if I understand correctly, this is a very, very specialized brain state unique to sleep, unique to a specific portion of sleep. And that begs the question, what is it doing?

事实证明，我们将要描述的所有这些阶段——睡眠的不同阶段在夜间的不同时间对你的大脑和身体起着不同的作用。这很容易理解，公众经常会过来问我：'我怎样才能获得更多深度睡眠？'或者'我怎样才能获得更多快速眼动睡眠？'而我首先会反问他们：'你为什么想要更多快速眼动睡眠？'他们通常会说：'那不是最好的部分吗？'

So it turns out that all of these stages that we'll describe, different stages of sleep do different things for your brain and your body at different times of night. And it's very understandable that people sort of in the public will come over to me and say, you know, how do I get more deep sleep? Or how do I get more REM sleep? And my question back to them firstly is, why do you want more REM sleep? And they'll say, well, isn't that the good stuff?

我会告诉他们：'其实所有阶段都很重要。你需要所有阶段的睡眠。'不过我们可以先谈谈非快速眼动睡眠的功能，然后我可能会——我应该先解析快速眼动睡眠，再解释其功能。但总体而言，我们知道在深度睡眠期间，首先你的身体神经系统会转换到你之前多次提到的副交感神经系统，这是一种非常安静、平静的身体神经系统状态。而交感神经系统的命名很不恰当，因为它一点也不'交感'，反而是非常刺激和激活性的。

And I will say, well, it turns out that they're all important. You need all of them. But we can come on to, I'll speak about non REM sleep functions first, and then I can probably, I should unpack REM sleep and then explain its functions. But as an overview, what we know is that during deep sleep, first you switch over in terms of your body's nervous system to what we call the parasympathetic nervous system that you've spoken about a lot before, which is this kind of very quiescent calming state of your body's nervous system. The sympathetic nervous system, which is very poorly named because it's anything but sympathetic, it's very aggravating and activating.

在我们清醒时，根据你所处的状态，交感神经系统似乎更为主导。但在睡眠中，尤其是在深度睡眠中，你会转换到这种非常强烈的副交感神经安静平静状态。这与其他因素共同作用。顺便说一下，我们已经通过一篇大约一年半前发表的论文证明，这些慢波和睡眠纺锤波以及它们的协调程度，似乎会向你的身体自主神经系统发出信号——自主神经系统中同时包含交感和副交感神经系统——迫使你进入副交感神经状态。所以这些脑波似乎在做的事情之一就是向你的身体神经系统传递信息：冷静下来，安静下来。

And when we're awake, that seems to be somewhat more dominant depending on what state you're in. But in sleep, especially in deep sleep, you shift over into this very strong parasympathetic, quiescent, calm state. And that instigates together with other things. And we've demonstrated, by the way, that we published a paper probably about a year and a half ago, that these slow waves and these sleep spindles and the coordination of them, how well that they're coordinated, seems to instigate a signal down into your body's, what we call the autonomic nervous system, which carries both the sympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system inside of it and forces you over into a parasympathetic state. So these brain waves, one of the things that they seem to be doing is transacting a message to your body's nervous system to say, calm down, quiet down.

接下来会发生什么？首先，我们看到你的心血管系统活动减缓。可以说，深度睡眠几乎是你所能期望的最好的降压药。这太美妙了。然后你的免疫系统内会发生一些变化。

What then happens? Firstly, what we see is your cardiovascular system ramps down. Deep sleep, you could argue, is almost the very best form of blood pressure medication that you could ever wish for. It's beautiful. Then something happens within your immune system.

我们正在开始解析这一点，但还不完全明白原因。这些脉冲式的深度慢脑波似乎是触发免疫系统两件事的诱因：首先，它刺激免疫武器库的补充，这样你第二天醒来时会成为一个免疫力更强的个体。

We're starting to unpack this, but we still don't quite know why. These pulsing deep slow brainwaves seem to be a trigger for instigating two things for your immune system. Firstly, it stimulates the restocking of the weaponry in your immune arsenal so that you wake up the next day and you are a more robust immune individual.

所以这些指的是T细胞、自然杀伤细胞之类的免疫细胞。

So these are things like T cells, natural killer cells, things of that sort.

所有那些好东西。但更有趣的是，还有一个更新的发现：不仅仅是你的身体补充了所有这些免疫武器并实际上增强了它们，而且你的身体对这些免疫因子的敏感性也提高了。所以你既补充了武器库，又让你的身体对这些免疫信号更加敏感。这就是为什么在后续讨论中我们可能会看到，当你睡眠不足时，你的免疫系统会开始显著受损。所以这是深度睡眠脑波模式的第二个好处。

All of that good stuff. But what's also interesting, and there's a more recent discovery, it's not just that your body has put back all of this armory in place and in fact amplified it, But your body's sensitivity to those immune factors has also increased. So you've restocked the weaponry and you've made your body more sensitive to those immune signals. And that's why we will see in probably later discussions, your immune system can start to become, you know, really markedly impaired when you're not getting enough sleep. So that's a second benefit of the deep sleep brainwave patterns.

我们意识到的第三个好处是，它非常擅长调节你的代谢系统，特别是控制血糖和葡萄糖的能力。如果我们选择性地只剥夺你的深度睡眠——我们现在可以用非常巧妙的方法做到这一点，不像十年前那样，看到你进入深度睡眠后进入卧室把你叫醒再让你重新入睡。现在我们可以使用一种非常聪明的方法，向你的大脑播放听觉音调，但这些音调的强度不会唤醒你，这被称为亚觉醒阈值。

The third benefit that we've realized is that it's very good at regulating your metabolic system and specifically your ability to control your blood sugar and your blood glucose. And if we selectively deprive you of just deep sleep alone, and we can do this now very cleverly, it's not as though I see you going into deep sleep and I go into your bedroom and I wake you up and then you go back to sleep, is how we used to do it sort of ten years ago. Now we can use a very clever method where we play auditory tones to your brain. But they are of a level that will not wake you up. It's what's called a sub awakening threshold.

我们通过播放这些音调，迫使大脑从深度睡眠中重新浮出水面。这样你仍然会睡足八小时，但我选择性地移除了你的深度睡眠。当我这样做时，确实，你的血糖控制能力会受到相当明显的损害。

And we determine that. And by playing those tones, it forces the brain to resurface out of deep sleep. So you will still sleep a total eight hours. But I will have selectively excised just your deep sleep. And when I do that, sure enough, your blood sugar ability, your ability to control your blood sugar, I should say, is impaired really quite demonstrably.

这至少有两个原因。首先是你的胰腺，当它看到血糖飙升时，通常会释放一种叫做胰岛素的东西。胰岛素是触发身体开始吸收血糖的信号，这样我们就不会出现毒性或维持这种有毒的血糖峰值。当你睡眠不足，特别是缺乏深度睡眠时，你的胰腺不会释放足够量的胰岛素。更糟糕的是，我们发现选择性地剥夺深度睡眠意味着即使释放了少量胰岛素，你体内的细胞对胰岛素的反应也会变得不那么敏感。

And it's for at least two reasons. The initial thing is that your pancreas, when it sees this spike in blood sugar, it normally releases something called insulin. And that insulin is a trigger to your body to say, start absorbing the blood sugar so we don't get this toxic or we don't maintain this toxic spike in blood sugar. Your pancreas, when you are underslept, and specifically when you're not getting enough deep sleep, does not release the appropriate amount of insulin. Worse still, what we found is that selectively depriving you of deep sleep means that what little insulin is released, the cells in your body become less receptive to that insulin.

所以你没有释放足够的这种化学物质来启动血糖吸收。而那些设计用来做这件事的细胞，它们把吸管伸进你的血液中吸取血糖，却不再对胰岛素做出反应。因此在血糖调节方程的两边，你都变得功能失调。然后我可以在大脑中给你举一个例子。

So you're not releasing enough of this chemical to say, start absorbing blood sugar. And the cells that are designed to do that, they stick a straw out into your bloodstream and they suck up the blood sugar. They don't respond to the insulin anymore. So on both sides of the blood sugar regulation equation, you become MPUD. And then I can give you an example upstairs in the brain.

我们发现并要讨论的一点是，深度睡眠有助于调节你的学习和记忆功能。它帮助开始在大脑中移动记忆，保护它们，并将它们从短期转移到长期。然而，我们现在发现深度睡眠对于降低阿尔茨海默病的风险轨迹至关重要。正是在深度睡眠期间，大脑中的清洁系统开始洗去因清醒状态而积累的有毒蛋白质。其中两种有毒成分是我们称为β淀粉样蛋白和tau蛋白的物质，它们是阿尔茨海默病大脑方程的基本成分。

One of the things that we found and we'll discuss is that deep sleep helps regulate your learning and your memory functions. It helps start to move memories around in your brain and protect them and shift them from short term to long term. Deep sleep, however, we've now discovered is critical for de risking your Alzheimer's trajectory. It's during deep sleep when you have a cleansing system in the brain that starts washing away the toxic proteins that build up by way of wake wakefulness. And two of those toxic components are something that we call beta amyloid and tau protein, which are fundamental ingredients in the Alzheimer's disease brain equation.

因此，基于我刚才提供的这一系列事情——这些只是深度睡眠所做事情的一小部分——你可能会认为这就是我想要获得的东西，也是我需要优化的目标。但事实并非如此，因为还有快速眼动睡眠（REM睡眠）。

So certainly I could then understand based on that litany of things that I've just provided, and those are only a few of what deep sleep is doing. You could imagine that's the stuff that I want to get, and that's the thing that I need to optimize for. Not true because there is REM sleep.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商AG1。AG1是一种维生素矿物质益生菌饮料，还含有适应原，旨在满足您所有的基础营养需求。到现在，我相信你们都听我说过，我从2012年开始就一直在服用AG1。这确实是真的。当然，我每天也摄入常规的全食物。

I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor AG1. AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that also contains adaptogens, and is designed to meet all of your foundational nutritional needs. By now, I'm sure you've all heard me say I've been taking AG1 since 2012. And indeed, that is true. Now, of course, I do consume regular whole foods every day.

我努力让这些食物主要来自未加工或最小加工的来源。然而，我发现每天很难摄入足够份量的水果和蔬菜。因此，通过AG1，我确保获得足够的维生素、矿物质、益生元纤维以及其他通常存在于水果或蔬菜中的物质，当然，我仍然确保吃水果和蔬菜，这样就在某种程度上保证了我获得所需营养。此外，AG1中的适应原和其他微量营养素确实有助于缓冲压力，确保我身体的细胞、器官和组织获得它们需要的东西。人们经常问我，如果他们只打算服用一种补充剂，那应该是什么，我总是回答AG1。

I strive to get those foods mostly from unprocessed or minimally processed sources. However, I do find it hard to get enough servings of fruits and vegetables each day. So with AG1, I ensure that I get enough of the vitamins, minerals, prebiotic fiber, and other things typically found in fruits or vegetables, and of course, I still make sure to eat fruits and vegetables, and in that way provide a sort of insurance that I'm getting enough of what I need. In addition, the adaptogens and other micronutrients in AG1 really help buffer against stress and ensure that the cells and organs and tissues of my body are getting the things they need. People often ask me that if they were going to take just one supplement, what that supplement should be, and I always answer AG1.

如果你想尝试AG1，可以访问drinkag1.com/huberman领取特别优惠。你将获得五份免费旅行装，外加一年的维生素D3+K2供应。再次提醒，网址是drinkag1.com/huberman。在谈论快速眼动睡眠之前，睡眠的第一和第二阶段呢？它们只是进入深度睡眠（第三和第四阶段）冲刺前的慢跑吗？

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. You'll get five free travel packs, plus a year's supply of vitamin d three k two. Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman. Before you talk about REM sleep, what about stages one and two of sleep? Are those just kind of the jog into the sprint that is deep sleep stages three and four?

或者，如果我把这个问题作为一个实验来提出，假设我是你实验室的本科生或研究生，我说：我们能做一个实验，选择性地只剥夺人们的第一和第二阶段睡眠吗？当然，问题就变成了：那你用什么来代替呢？所以还需要做很多其他实验，但这个实验有人做过吗？如果有，与仅仅剥夺深度睡眠相比，剥夺第一和第二阶段睡眠的后果是什么？

Or if I were to stage the question I'm asking as an experiment, say I'm an undergraduate or graduate student in your lab, I say, can we do an experiment where you selectively deprive people of stage one and two sleep only? And then of course, the question becomes, what do you put in there instead? So there's a bunch of other experiments that one would have to do, but has that experiment ever been done? And if so, what is the consequence of being stage onetwo deprived as opposed to just deep sleep deprived?

正如您已经优雅地演示的那样，第一阶段选择性剥夺非常困难，因为这是一个你必须经历的全新过程才能进入其他睡眠阶段。

So just as you already elegantly demonstrated, that stage one selective deprivation is very difficult because it's a de novo thing you have to pass through to get to the other stages of sleep.

第一阶段是否就是我和其他人多次经历的那种睡眠阶段，当你正要入睡时，可能开始做一个关于走路或奔跑的梦，然后就把自己踢醒了？

Is stage one the stage of sleep that I and other people have experienced many times, where you're falling asleep and you start to have a dream perhaps about walking or running, and then you kick yourself away.

没错。好的，我本应该解释一下会发生什么。第一阶段，我很喜欢。当我们进入第一阶段时，显然我们的眼睑是闭着的，但我们在记录时知道的首批迹象之一——我告诉过我们是用这些电极记录头部的电活动，但我也说过我们在测量眼球运动活动。

That's right. Okay. And I should have explained what happens. Stage one, I love. So, as we're going into stage one, obviously our eyelids are closed, but one of the first signs that we know as we're recording, I told you we're recording the electrical activity on the head with these electrodes, but I also said that we're measuring eye movement activity.

当你进入轻度非快速眼动第一阶段时，出于我们至今仍不知道的原因，你的眼球开始在眼睑下的眼窝中滚动。我们能开始观察到的这种变化，我们称之为慢速滚动眼动，它们是您进入睡眠的标志。如果您足够幸运有伴侣，您可以看到这个现象。当对方入睡时，您会看到这些奇特的景象。当然，如果他们醒来，通常这段关系会很快终止，因为接下来...

And as you're going into light stage one non REM, for reasons that again, we have no idea why, your eyeballs start to roll in their sockets underneath your eyelids. That change that we can start to see, we call them slow rolling eye movements, and they are the hallmark of you entering sleep. And if you are lucky enough to have a partner, you can see this. You can, you know, as they're falling asleep, you will see these bizarre. Now, granted, if they wake up, usually the relationship is terminated very quickly because the thing Next

下次我在飞机上，如果旁边的人

time I'm on a plane, if the person next to me is

正在睡觉，想回头看，

sleeping, wanna be back,

有点像或者或者一面镜子。是的。不。别那么做。

kinda like or or a mirror. Yeah. No. Don't do that.

我是唯一能这么做而不被责怪的人，因为我是持证睡眠科学家。即便如此，是的，美国航空有时也会有些意见。但你会看到这些慢速滚动眼动，脑电波也开始再次放缓。但您还提到了另一点，它们被称为入睡抽动。当我们进入这个第一睡眠阶段时，我告诉过您我们做梦的主要阶段是快速眼动睡眠。

I'm the only one who gets away with it because I'm a card carrying sleep scientist. And even then, yeah, American Airlines sometimes take some bridge. But so you get these slow rolling eye movements and the brain waves start to sort of slow down again. But you mentioned something else, and they are called hypnagogic jerks. And as we're going into this first stage of sleep, I told you that the principal stage in which we dream is rapid eye movement sleep.

这并不完全正确，因为每个人都有这样的经历：就在你即将入睡时，你开始做一些小型的迷你梦，几乎是节食版或轻量版的梦。你几乎可以因为认知断裂点而唤醒自己。我的意思是，你在想，好吧，明天我得去演播室。我要采访那个极其烦人的英国家伙马特·沃克。然后房间里出现了一头大象，头上长着直升机翅膀。

That's not exactly true because everyone has had this experience that just as you're drifting off, you start to have these little mini dreams, almost sort of diet or dreams light, L I T E. And you can almost wake yourself up based on the fracture point of cognition. And what I mean is you're thinking, okay, so tomorrow I've got to get to the studio. I'm interviewing that desperately annoying British guy, Matt Walker. And then there was the elephant in the room with the helicopter wings on its head.

然后你几乎因为这个想法而醒来，因为你会想，等等。等等。抱歉，不好意思，倒回去，重来。刚才发生了什么？这就是你过渡到我们所谓的入睡状态的那个时刻，在那里你会有这些入睡前梦境，但也会出现这些抽动。

And and you almost just think it wakes you up because you think, wait. Wait. Sorry, excuse me, go back, rewind. What just happened? That's the point at which you've transitioned over into the, what we call the hypnagogic state, where you can have these hypnagogic dreams, but you also get these jerks.

我们并不完全理解发生了什么，但我们理解的是，当你进入睡眠时，你开始失去感官知觉装置的不同方面——不是指'我失去了它们，它们去哪了，我找不到了'这种意义上的失去，而是对这些信息的处理能力。这些处理能力在睡眠期间仍然存在。开始退化的其中之一就是我们所说的本体感觉。你之前谈到过这个，就是知道你的身体在空间中如何定位。所以本体感觉非常迷人。

We don't fully understand what happens, but what we do understand is that as you're going into sleep, you start to lose different aspects of your sensory perceptual apparatus, not lose in the sense of where did I, where did they go and I can't find them, but the processing of those. Now, will remain during sleep. One of the things that starts to degrade is what we call proprioception. And you've spoken about this before, which is knowing how your body is sort of positioned in space. So proprioception is fascinating.

当你和同事一起走路过马路时，你有没有过这种感觉：你迈下路缘石，一边聊天，突然之间你出现了那种很难看的摇晃，哦，这是因为你在无意识中通过计算理解了你的脚在空间中的位置。你理解了它向下落到你下方路面时的速度力量，但你错误计算了距离，你的大脑预期你的脚会在某个时间点碰到路面，结果却没有。它向你的脊髓发送了一个错误信号，这就是你产生那种感觉的原因。

As you're walking with a colleague and you're crossing over a street, have you ever had that feeling where you're sort of, you step off the curb and you're chatting and all of a sudden you have one of those really ugly wobbles where you can, oh, and it's because you had calculated non consciously and computationally, you understood where your foot was in space. You understood the velocity force with which it was descending down onto the road below you, you had miscalculated the distance and your brain had expected your foot to hit that road at a certain time, and it did not. It sends an error signal back up your spinal cord, and that's where you get that.

我上周末就遇到了这种情况。我在旧金山动物园，在动物园的景观中不时会有这些柔软的表面，它们与周围的混凝土无缝衔接。我想这是为了让孩子们可以在那里的各种雕塑上玩耍，如果摔倒了会更有缓冲。所以我正走过这个地方，和我左边的人说话，我踩上了这个相当柔软的表面，突然之间，我就好像不知道该怎么走过这个东西了。我想，你知道，我一生中走了这么长时间的路，但我真的必须集中注意力，然后过渡回混凝土路面后才可以不再去想它

This happened to me just last weekend. I was at the San Francisco Zoo, and periodically throughout the landscape of the San Francisco Zoo, they have these kind of squishy surfaces that are seamless with the concrete around them. I think this is so kids can play on the various sculptures there, and if they fall, it's a little bit more forgiving. So I was just walking across this thing, talking to the person to my left, and I stepped on this now rather squishy surface, and all of a sudden, I'm like, Well, I don't know how to walk across this thing. And I'm like, you know, I've been walking a long period of my life, and I really had to pay attention, and then transition back onto the concrete and could stop thinking about it for

对。然后你几乎不得不停止正在进行的对话，因为它占据了你的注意力，你从无意识的本体感觉切换过来。所以问题是，当你醒着躺在床上时，你能感觉到身下的床垫，感觉到支撑，你获得了所有这些反馈信号——这些信号在我刚才说的不恰当计算路面距离时是缺失的。所有这些都到位了，你的大脑说一切正常。但随着我们逐渐进入睡眠，我们开始失去那种本体感觉反馈。

Right. A And you almost then have to stop the conversation that you were having because it takes over, and you switch from nonconscious proprioceptive, and you switch over. So the issue is that when you are lying there awake in bed, you sense the mattress underneath you, you sense the support, you're getting all of that feedback signal that I was telling you was absent when you inappropriately calculated the distance down onto the road. All of that is in place and your brain is saying everything's fine. But as we're drifting off into sleep, we start to lose that proprioceptive feedback.

现在，这种本体感觉反馈的丧失以及对正在发生什么和我的身体在哪里的感知，是发生在意识丧失之前的。所以你失去了意识，然后在那之后本体感觉丧失发生，你就不会有那种精神上的本体感觉恐慌，就像'紧急情况请破窗'那样。但有时这些事情发生的速度会改变，你在完全失去意识之前就开始失去本体感觉。在那一刻，你的身体会说，天啊，床垫刚刚消失了，我在坠落。明白了。

Now, that loss of proprioceptive feedback and sensation of what's going on and where my body is, is before the loss of consciousness. And so you lose consciousness and that's then thereafter when the loss of proprioception happens and you don't have this sort of, you know, mental freak out of proprioceptive, break glass in case of emergency. But sometimes the speed with which those things happen changes and you start to lose the proprioceptive sensation before you fully lose consciousness. And at that point, your body says, Oh my goodness, mattress has just disappeared and I'm falling. Got it.

明白了。这就是你可能会出现这些抽动的原因。这是我们目前最好的理论。

Got it. And that's where you can have these jerks. That's our current best theory.

我知道我们在这个系列的后续节目中会大量讨论做梦，但你刚才告诉我的内容迫使我现在要问：在那些我们感觉自己在飞行的梦境中，是否可能是因为缺乏本体感觉？我们某种程度上是在床垫上或我们睡觉的任何表面上，但根据大脑的判断，我们是悬浮在空中的。是这样吗？

I know we're going to talk a lot about dreaming in a later episode of this series, but what you just told me forces me to ask at this moment whether or not in dreams where we sense we are flying, is that possible because of the absence of proprioception? We're sort of, we're on the mattress or on whatever surface we sleep on, but according to the brain, there's, we're suspended in space. Is that right?

是的。所以这是为什么我们有那些体验的一种可能性。不过在某种程度上，这确实将我们带到了REM睡眠。在REM睡眠期间，我会解释大脑中发生了什么，但你谈论的是REM睡眠中更加独特的事情。当我们进入REM睡眠时，你的大脑会使你的身体瘫痪。

Yeah. So it's one possibility as to why we have those experiences. In some ways, though, it does bring us on to REM sleep. During REM sleep, and I'll explain what happens in the brain, but what you're talking about is something that is even more unique about REM sleep. As we go into REM sleep, your brain paralyzes your body.

所以你实际上被锁在了你身体的禁锢中。为什么你的大脑要这样做？这就是我们所说的肌肉弛缓。我之前告诉过你，我们测量你的脑电活动，测量你的眼球运动活动，但我们也测量你的肌肉活动。我们为什么这样做？

So you are physically locked into the incarceration of your body. Why would your brain do this? It's what we call muscle atonia. Now, I was telling you that we measure your electrical brain activity and we measure your eye movement activity, but we also measure your muscle activity. Why do we do that?

嗯，当你进入非REM睡眠时，肌肉张力会降低，但仍然存在一些肌肉张力。但当你进入REM睡眠时，实际上就在你进入REM睡眠前几秒钟，我已经知道你要进入REM睡眠了，因为砰的一声，你变得完全没有任何肌肉张力。如果我要把你抱起来，基于我在社交媒体上看到的某些图像，我可能无法把你从床上抱起来。但如果我抬起你，你就会像一个布娃娃一样。你根本没有任何肌肉张力。

Well, as you're going into non REM sleep, that muscle tone decreases, but there's still some muscle tone there. But as you go into REM sleep, in fact, just a few seconds before you enter REM sleep, I already know you're going into REM sleep because bang, you you become completely absent of muscle tone. And if I were to pick you up, and I mean, I'm I'm probably not gonna be able to pick you up out of your bed based on certain images I've seen on social media. I'm going to if I lift you up, you'd just be like a rag doll. You would have no muscle tone whatsoever.

这几乎就像那种玩具，一个会坐起来的驴子，底下有个按钮，你一按按钮。

It's almost like those toys where it's like a donkey that sits up and it's got a button underneath, and you press the button.

我喜欢那些。

I love those.

“嗖”的一声，它就倒下了。我小时候也有那些。就像你我童年时拥有的简单玩意儿，是的。那会让人着迷

Whoosh, and it just falls down. Used I to have those as a kid too. Like, the simple things that you and I had as children Yeah. That would fascinate

我们。想借几个这样的玩具，但它们...不过是的。我需要弄一个驴子的。总之，抱歉。所以我知道你指的是什么。

us. To loan a couple of these, but they but yeah. I need to get a donkey one. In any event But sorry. So know what you're referring to.

所以这块肌肉，我们称之为肌肉驰缓（muscle atonia）。医学中任何以A开头的词通常表示某种东西的缺失，所以如果你有arrhythmia（心律失常），就是正常心律的缺失。Aphasia（失语症），是的，类似这样。这里就是atonia，肌肉张力的缺失。大脑为什么要这样做？嗯，大脑麻痹你的身体，这样你的心智就可以安全地做梦。

So this this muscle as we call it muscle atonia, anything in medicine, usually with an A before it means the absence of something, so if you have arrhythmia, absence of normal arrhythmia. Aphasia. Aphasia, yeah, sort of, and here it's atonia, absence of the tone in your muscles. Why would the brain do this? Well, brain paralyzes your body so your mind can dream safely.

你可以想象，如果你就像你描述的那样，认为‘我能飞’，然后你从床上起来，走到窗边，一跃而下——你被淘汰出基因池的速度会有多快。结局可能不会太好，取决于你在几楼。所以，这种肌肉张力的缺失，这种身体上的禁锢，顺便说一下，是区分REM睡眠和清醒状态的特征之一。因为如果我在睡眠实验室里只是记录你的脑电活动，我在另一个房间只看你的脑电波，当你进入REM睡眠时，我无法判断你是在REM睡眠中还是醒着？

You would imagine how quickly you could be popped out of the gene pool if, just like you described, you thought, I can fly. So you get up out of your bed and you go to the window and you launch. Probably not going to end well, depending on what floor you're on. So, this absence of muscle tone, this physical incarceration that we have, is one of the things, by the way, that defines REM sleep from when you are awake. Because if all I was doing in my sleep lab was recording your electrical brain activity, and I was in the other room and I was just looking at your brain waves, as you go into REM sleep, I would not be able to tell, are you in REM sleep or are you awake?

为什么？因为REM睡眠时的脑电活动与你清醒时非常相似。这告诉我们，REM睡眠是一种极其活跃的大脑状态。你的大脑在高速运转。事实上，REM睡眠时你大脑的某些部分可能比清醒时活跃高达30%。

Why? Because the electrical brain activity is so similar when you are in REM sleep relative to when you're awake. And what that tells us is that REM sleep is an incredibly active cerebral condition. Your brain is just firing away. In fact, some parts of your brain can be up to 30% more active when you're in REM sleep than when you're awake.

惊人。尤其是情感大脑中枢。所以这是一种惊人的矛盾状态，这也是我们有时称之为‘异相睡眠’的原因。你的身体完全瘫痪，彻底不活动，但你的大脑却狂热地活跃着。

Stunning. Particularly emotional brain centers. So it's a stunning state of paradox, and that's the reason that we sometimes call it paradoxical sleep. Your body is completely immobilized. It's utterly inactive, but your brain is fervent with its activity.

顺便说一下，当我说你的肌肉被关闭时，人们不必担心。发生的情况是，就在你进入REM睡眠之前，会有一股爆发性的活动上传到你的大脑，激活你的皮层。但同时还有另一个来自脑干的信号，它一路向下发送到脊髓中的α运动神经元，这基本上会造成这种抑制。它只影响你的随意骨骼肌，意思是你的不随意肌，例如帮助你呼吸和维持心跳的肌肉，这就是我们能在睡眠后幸存并迎来新的一天的原因。所以不用太担心这个。

By the way, people should not worry when I say that your muscles are shut down. And what happens is that just before you go into REM sleep, there's a bursting activity that will go up into your brain to light up your cortex. But there's another signal from the brainstem that's sent down all the way down the spinal cord to the alpha motor neurons in the spinal cord that will essentially create this inhibition. It's only your voluntary skeletal muscles, meaning that your involuntary muscles, things for example, such as your respiration that helps you breathe in your heart, that's the reason that we, you know, survive and live another day after sleep. So don't worry about that too much.

不过有两个例外，有两组随意肌出于我们至今仍未知的原因，不受REM睡眠瘫痪的影响。其中一组是眼外肌。这就是为什么当你进入REM睡眠时，你的眼睛可以有这些快速的左右扫视运动。这些肌肉本也应被麻痹，但它们没有。然后奇怪的是，中耳内有一块肌肉也不会经历瘫痪，它也会像你的眼睛一样抽动。

With two exceptions, though, there are two sets of voluntary muscles for reasons that we still don't know either that are spurred from the paralysis of REM sleep. One of them is the extraocular muscles. And that's the reason that when you go into REM sleep, you can have these darting horizontal movements back and forth. Those should also have been paralyzed, but they're not. And then oddly, there is a muscle in the middle inner ear muscle that does not undergo the paralysis, and it will also twitch too, just like your eyes.

但我有点跑题了。这就是这些不同生理状态下发生的事情。回到你的问题，当你完全没有肌肉张力时，也许这就是为什么，第一，你开始做那些没有重力牵引的梦，意味着你可以开始飞翔。顺便说一句，这也可能是为什么，回到本体感觉，你有时会有那种感觉，有些人会描述为，我的牙齿总是掉。我总是感觉，这是很常见的事情，或者你感觉身体上没有衣服，然后你说，我走出去要去开会，结果发现我没穿裤子。

But I am getting into the weeds. So that's what's happening in these different physiological states. And to your question, when you don't have any muscle tone whatsoever, maybe that is in part the reason why, A, you can start to have these dreams of absent gravitational pull, meaning you can start to fly. It may also be the reason, by the way, that coming back to proprioception, you can sometimes have that feeling of, some people would describe, my teeth are always falling out. I always feel as though, it's a very common thing to, or you feel the absence of clothing on your body, and you say, I walked out and I was going to this meeting, and I realized I didn't have any pants on.

而且你忘记了本体感觉也包括知道衣服穿在身上并感知这些衣服。你我现在就可以集中注意力去感受身上的衣服。

And and you forget that proprioception is also about knowing that your clothes are on you and sensing those clothes. You and I can now direct our attention and sense those clothes on us.

当我们谈论睡眠时，我们说“入睡”，那种“坠入”头部的感觉是否与睡眠初期本体感觉逐渐丧失有关？还是说这只是语义上的巧合？

Is it also the case that when we talk about sleep, we talk about falling asleep, that the sense that one is falling back into their head is related to the progressive loss of proprioception in the early stages of sleep? Or is it just semantics?

不，我经常认为那可能就是这种说法的来源。我们，为什么我们不说我正在，有时人们说我要飘入睡眠了，但是，或者我即将进入睡眠。而我们说我要睡着了。其中部分原因可能是我正在进入越来越深层次的脑波活动模式，也许吧。但我其实认为你是对的。

No, I often think that that may have been where that notion comes from. We, why would we not say that I am, sometimes people say I'm drifting off into sleep, but, or I'm about to enter sleep. And we say I'm falling asleep. Now some of that may be that I'm falling into a sort of a deeper and deeper state of a brainwave activity pattern, maybe. But I actually think you're right.

虽然我们最终不知道它的起源，但我相信部分原因是人们有这种坠落感，因此称为‘入睡’。顺着这个思路，我发现

Now we don't know ultimately the origin of it, but I believe it's in part because people have this sense of falling, hence falling asleep. Along those lines, I found that

如果我水平躺在床上或沙发上，睡眠效果与我在椅子上直立入睡或在躺椅上部分直立入睡的效果截然不同。

if I sleep horizontally on a bed or sofa, the sleep is far and away different than if I'm fall asleep upright in a chair or partially upright in a recliner.

是的。

Yeah.

例如在飞机上。当然飞机上还有很多其他因素，明亮的灯光、噪音等等。所以比较这两种情况——飞机躺椅和夜间床上——并不是一个好的实验。是的，变量太多了，尤其是温度。

For instance, on an airplane. Now there are a bunch of other things happening on airplanes, bright lights, noises, etcetera. So it's not a good experiment to compare those two situations, airplane recliner versus in bed at night. Yeah. Too many variables, temperature especially.

但是，是否有证据表明睡眠时的身体姿势，或者脚相对于头部的位置（你知道，向上或向下倾斜的角度）对不同睡眠阶段的模式、质量或睡眠的任何其他方面有影响？

But is there any evidence that one's bodily position during sleep or the orientation of the feet relative to the head, you know, the angle elevated upward or downward has any impact on the pattern of different sleep stages or quality or any other aspects of sleep?

这是有原因的。我们可能在讨论睡眠优化的不同方法或新一波迷人的睡眠增强工具时会谈到这一点，我们认为这与温度有关。为了能够入睡并保持睡眠，你需要将大脑和身体的温度降低略低于约1摄氏度（或大约2到2.5华氏度）。顺便说一句，这就是为什么你总会发现在太冷的房间里比在太热的房间里更容易入睡，因为太冷的房间至少让你朝着有利于良好睡眠的温度方向变化，而太热的房间则相反。

There is a reason for it. And we'll probably come on to this at some point when we speak about different methods for sleep optimization or the new wave of fascinating sleep enhancement tools has to do with temperature, we think. That for you to be able to fall asleep and stay asleep, you have to drop your brain and body temperature by just a little less than about one degree Celsius or probably two, two and a half degrees Fahrenheit. And that's the reason, by the way, that you will always find it easier to fall asleep in a room that's too cold than too hot, because the room that's too cold is at least taking you in the right temperature direction for good sleep. Whereas the room that's too hot, the opposite.

事实证明，身体散热的能力——我们称之为体温调节，特别是降低核心体温这一方向的调节——在平躺时优于倾斜状态，而倾斜状态又优于站立时。真的吗？这部分与血液在大脑远端和近端区域的分布有关，即靠近身体核心的区域与较远区域的区别。但如果我们脱掉你大部分衣物，并以我们采用的方式测量核心体温，你身体的能力就会显现。这是一种巧妙的技术。

It turns out that the body's ability to dissipate heat, what we call thermoregulation here, and thermoregulation in one direction, which is the reduction in core body temperature, is superior when you are lying down versus when you are inclined versus when you are standing up. Really? And in part, it has to do with the distribution of blood throughout certain parts of the brain in the distal versus proximal regions, meaning the regions that are closer to the core of your body versus the regions that are further away. But your body's ability, if we largely take most items of clothes off you, and then we measure the core body temperature in the way that we do this. It's a delightful technique.

这叫做直肠探头，对进行实验的安装者来说不一定愉快，对参与者当然也未必舒适。但暂且不谈这个，我们可以测量你的核心体温，并通过遍布全身的温度传感器精确监测血流情况。我们还能测量大脑如何开始散热。因为我们身体散热的主要方式之一是通过血液循环。当血液被带入身体核心时，热量被 trapped（困住），核心体温升高。

It's called a rectal probe, and it's neither pleasant necessarily for the installation of the experiments doing it, and it's certainly not necessarily for the participant. But putting that aside for a second, we can measure your core body temperature and we can measure using temperature sensors all over your body exactly what's going on with the blood flow. And we can measure how the brain is starting to dissipate the heat. Because one of the principal ways that we dissipate heat from our body is by moving blood around the body. When we bring blood into the core of our body, we're trapping it in the core and our core body temperature increases.

当我们将血液推向表面时，它会到达皮肤表面的细小毛细血管和血管中，开始散热并且散热更快。因此你的核心体温下降。而身体在平躺时，其血管活性能力——即分布血液并从身体核心释放被困热量的能力——更优越。因此你的体温能更快下降，这也是为什么在45度角姿势下入睡更困难、睡眠质量较差的多重原因之一。当然，还有其他原因，正如你提到的。

When we push that blood out to the surface, it goes to these thin sort of capillaries and vessels on the surface of your skin, and you start to dissipate that heat and you dissipate it more quickly. So your core body temperature drops. And the body's sort of vasoactive capacity for distributing that blood and then releasing that trapped heat from the core of the body is superior when you are lying down. And therefore your body temperature can drop more quickly, which is one of the many reasons why it's not as easy to fall asleep when you are sort of at a 45 degree angle and why the quality of your sleep won't be as good. Now there are other reasons too, just as you mentioned.

但回到姿势问题，我认为至少有两点证据支持采用不同的体位或改变姿势。第一点非常明显：如果你打鼾，尤其是患有未经治疗的睡眠呼吸暂停（这不仅仅是打鼾，还会出现呼吸停止——apnea这个词的意思就是呼吸缺失。另一个带A的词是pnea，比如pneumonia（肺炎），都与呼吸有关）。

But coming back to position, I would say that there are maybe, there's perhaps at least two pieces of evidence that would recommend positional differences or positional changes. The first is very obvious. If you are someone who is snoring and you have, certainly if you have untreated sleep apnea, which is where you're sort of not just snoring, but you'll have an absence of breath. That's what the word apnea means. Here's another one with an A in front of it, pania, sort of, you know, you've heard of pneumonia, and this is about breath.

而apnea指的是呼吸的缺失。患有睡眠呼吸暂停时，不仅气道会部分坍塌（这就是产生颤动声音的原因），在某些时刻你会完全听到寂静——那时人完全停止了呼吸，即呼吸缺失。如果你仰卧睡觉，这种情况更容易发生，因为仰卧时气道会受重力影响下垂、关闭。

And apnea is about an absence of that breath. And with sleep apnea, not only do you start to have an airway collapsing partially, and that's where you get that flutter and that's the sound of the flutter that we're having. But then at some point, you just hear silence. At that point, the person stopped breathing entirely, absence of breath. That is much more likely to happen if you are sleeping on your back, because when you are sleeping on your back, your airway is giving way to gravity, which is wanting to pull the airway down and close it and shut it off.

因此，对打鼾或睡眠呼吸暂停患者的一个建议是尽量训练自己不要仰卧睡觉。现在有很多小工具可以帮助做到这一点。我们过去用的老方法——睡眠呼吸暂停在男性中比女性更常见，但女性也会患病。如果是男性患者，你会带他们到诊所并说：您能不能？通常这些男性可能体重超标，体型较大。

So one of the suggestions for people who have snoring or sleep apnea is trying as best you can to train yourself out of sleeping on your back. Now there's lots of gadgets out there that can sort of help in ways you can do that. The old school way that we used to do it, sleep apnea is more common in men than it is in women, but women still have it. But if you had a male, you would bring them into the clinic and you would say, Could you? It's often males who perhaps are carrying excessive body weight, and so they're of larger mass size.

你会说：您能不能带一件您妻子的T恤来？而且必须是前面有口袋的T恤。然后我们会让他们反着穿这件T恤。所以是一件非常贴身的T恤，前后反穿。

You'd say, can you also bring a T shirt in of your wife? And it has to be a T shirt that has a pocket on the front. And then we would ask them to wear the T shirt back to front. So it's a very tight fitting T shirt. It's back to front.

然后在后口袋放一个网球或曲棍球。当你在床上躺着翻身成仰卧时，网球会顶到你的背，给你一个疼痛信号。渐渐地——我知道，这是谁想出来的？是Matt吗？

And then you took a tennis ball or a hockey ball in the back pocket. And as you're lying there in bed and you turn over onto your back, you get this painful signal of the tennis ball pushing you in the back, and it gradually, I know, it's Who came up with this? Is this Matt,

是Matt吗？

was this Matt

是Walker的我。我是

is Walker's me. I am

不，这很聪明。

not It's clever.

是的，我现在在社交媒体上应该改称为'睡眠折磨者'而不是'睡眠外交官'。这是一个建议。如果你问我，在这种情况下是否有某些姿势我们应该避免？是的，确实有。另一个建议回到我在深度睡眠时提到的内容。

Yeah, I should now be, on social media, I should be changed to sort of like sleep torturer rather than sleep diplomat. So that's one recommendation. Just try to stay clear if you're asking me, are there certain positions we should stay away from in that circumstance? Yes, it would be. The other comes back to something I mentioned during deep sleep.

当这个清洁系统开始在你的大脑中启动，洗去一天中的这些毒素时。我们发现了一些证据，在皇家周期间，因为我的实验室不做动物研究，我们只做人类研究。但一些动物研究人员发现，当动物侧着头睡觉时，大脑的清洁能力比动物仰卧或俯卧时更强。事实上，如果你去谷歌搜索'睡觉的动物'，看看它们的头部姿势。

When this cleansing system starts to kick into gear in your brain and wash away these toxins from the day. What we've found a little bit of evidence, and we in the Royal Week, because I, you, my lab doesn't do animal research. We only do human research. But some animal researchers had discovered that when animals will sleep with their head on the side, that the cleansing capacity of the brain is superior than when the animal is sleeping on its back or sleeping on its front. And in fact, if you look, and you would love this project, if you go into Google and you just search for sleeping animals, look at the head position.

我向你保证，如果是在自然状态下，许多动物都是侧着头的。那些可爱的、有趣的姿势，比如小猫四仰八叉地躺着，头向后仰。这就像有睡眠呼吸暂停的人会仰卧睡觉的方式。但这种情况非常罕见，我们几乎从未见过。

And I will guarantee you that many of them, if they are naturalistic, are animals with their head turned to the side. Now, the cute ones, the funny ones, are when a, you know, a kitten is splayed out on its back and its head is back. That's how someone with sleep apnea would sort of sleep on their back. But that's very rare. We almost never see that.

所以这很有趣。他们发现当头部处于这种侧位时，大脑的清洁机制会稍微好一些。这不是天壤之别，不是说'天啊，我是俯卧睡姿，所以我的大脑得不到任何清洁'或者'我是仰卧睡姿'。我不是这个意思。

So it's very interesting. And what they found was that when those heads were in those sort of side positions, the cleansing mechanism of the brain was a little bit better. It wasn't night or day. It's not as though, oh my goodness, I'm a front sleeper and, you know, I'm not getting any brain cleansing or I'm a back sleeper. I'm not saying that.

没有必要走极端。但我认为目前还没有足够的人类证据表明首先这是事实，也没有足够强有力的证据来提出任何建议。但我提到这一点是因为数据中开始出现这样的趋势，如果你问我关于睡姿的建议，这就是我会给你的两条描述性建议，而不是规定性建议。

There's no need to take it to the extreme. But I don't think there's any good evidence yet in humans that firstly, that's the case. And nor is there strong enough evidence to make any recommendations. But I just bring it up because it's in the data and it's starting to emerge that if you were to ask me about sleeping position and are there any recommendations, those are the two pieces of descriptive advice I would give you. They are not prescriptive pieces of advice.

你提到了温度和睡眠之间的关系，我们稍后会详细讨论这一点，因为它非常关键。但在开始录制这期节目之前，我们稍微谈到了打哈欠。你告诉我一些关于打哈欠真正迷人的事情，是什么？

You mentioned the relationship between temperature and sleep, and we're going to get into that in some degree of detail a little bit later because it's so critical. But prior to starting to record this episode, we were talking a little bit about yawning. And you told me something really, truly fascinating about yawning, which was?

关于打哈欠至少有四种相互竞争的理论，我认为可能有一个明显的赢家正在浮现。第一种理论认为这只是疲劳，打哈欠只是你疲倦的标志。但事实证明这不是真的，因为许多人在无聊时也会打哈欠，即使他们不累且休息得很好。所以这似乎不正确。下一个理论看起来非常合乎逻辑，即它是为了重新平衡你的血液气体，特别是氧气和二氧化碳。

So there are at least four competing theories of yawning that we have, and I think there is probably an emerging clear winner. The first theory was that it was just tiredness, that yawning is simply a sign of you being tired. And it turns out that that's not true because many people can yawn when they're bored and they are not tired and they've been very well rested. So that doesn't seem to be true. The next one was one that seems to be very logical, which is it's about trying to rebalance your blood gases and specifically oxygen and carbon dioxide.

你可能会认为，当你打哈欠时吸入大量氧气，你试图做的是增加血液中的氧气含量，或者当你呼气时，可能是为了呼出更多二氧化碳。

And you would think that perhaps when you yawn with that sort of when you and you inhale a huge volume of oxygen, what you're trying to do is pump back up the oxygen in your bloodstream or when you sort of and the exhale, maybe it's about exhaling more carbon dioxide.

这与睡眠期间发生的生理性叹息类似，都是双吸气加长呼气。

Not unlike the physiological sighs that occur during sleep of a double inhale with a long exhale.

正确。

Correct.

或者人们可以在清醒睡眠中主动产生以管理焦虑。没错。是的。

Or that one can voluntarily generate for anxiety management in wakeful sleep. Exactly. Yep.

因此有一种理论认为，你可能是在试图平衡这些血气。他们进行了一些非常巧妙的实验，让受试者人为提高氧气水平。但更具体地说，他们双向增加了二氧化碳水平。他们尝试操纵它，并询问这些个体是否开始更频繁地打哈欠？

And so that was a theory that maybe you're trying to balance these blood gases. And there were some very clever experiments where they took individuals and they artificially increased their oxygen levels. But more specifically, they increased their carbon dioxide levels bidirectionally. They tried to manipulate it. And they asked, did those individuals start to yawn more?

因为按照这个想法，如果你的血氧下降而二氧化碳开始上升，如果这个理论正确，你应该开始更频繁地打哈欠。但结果没有任何差异。这可能也是为什么你不会看到人们在跑步机上或当他们进入更深的氧债和更高二氧化碳水平时打哈欠。所以这个理论被推翻了。第三个理论是关于传染性的。

Because the idea would be if your blood oxygen is coming down and your carbon dioxide is starting to rise, if this theory is correct, you should start yawning with greater frequency. And there was no difference whatsoever. That's probably also the reason that you don't see people yawning on a treadmill or when they're going into more of an oxygen debt and higher levels of carbon dioxide. So that theory was knocked out. The third theory was one of contagion.

这很迷人。打哈欠，像其他一些事情一样，具有传染性。作为听众，他们出乎意料，不知道你要说什么。在你开口之前，你说你告诉我们一些有趣的事情，然后你做了。我保证现在会有听众说，哦，我只是因为安德鲁·胡伯曼打哈欠而回应了一个哈欠。

And it's fascinating. Yawning, like several other things, has a contagious element to it. So as the audience, unexpectedly, they didn't know what you were going to say. And before you said it, you said, you told us something interesting about, and you did it. I guarantee you that there will be people listening right now who said, Oh, I just yawned in response to Andrew Huberman yawning.

它非常有传染性。部分原因是镜像神经元系统。你显然对此有深入的理解。你的大脑具有镜像他人动作状态的能力。一个好的例子是，假设我现在正走出门，用手关门，突然我的手要被夹住了。

It is very contagious. In part, it's the mirror neuron system. And you've obviously understand this in-depth. Your brain has this capacity to mirror the action states of other individuals. So a good example would be, let's say I'm walking out the door now, and I'm closing the door with my hand, and all of a sudden, I'm going to get my hand trapped.

而你在房间的另一边，你看到了我的手。当我的手被夹住，我痛苦地叫喊时，你几乎也会握住自己的手。为什么？你为什么要这样做？不仅仅是因为，你知道，你试图表示同情。

And you on the other side of the room, you are seeing my hand. And as soon as I trap my hand and I yelp out in pain, you almost hold your own hand. Because why? Why are you doing that? It's not just because, you know, you're trying to be, you know, compassionate.

不，你在某种程度上体验了我刚刚经历的事情。它是如何做到这一点的？因为你的大脑内部有一个系统可以镜像我的动作状态，它被称为镜像系统。你可以想象为什么理解他人的动作和情绪状态对于亲社会能力等所有好处非常重要。这个镜像神经元系统还能做的一件事就是模仿打哈欠。

No, you have experienced some degree of what I've just experienced. How does it do that? Because your brain has a system inside of it that mirrors my action states, and it's called a mirror system. And you can imagine why it's very good to understand the action and emotional states of others for pro social capacities and all of that good stuff. And one of the things that can also happen with this mirror neuron system is that it mimics yawning.

所以当你打哈欠时，我打哈欠的可能性也会增加，因为我的镜像神经元系统在匹配你的哈欠。有趣的是，我们知道其他物种也有镜像神经元系统。这意味着当你打哈欠时，你的狗打哈欠的统计概率更高，而且是跨物种的。所以当你的狗打哈欠时，你打哈欠的概率更高。这一点非常清楚。

So when you yawn, my likelihood of yawning increases too, because my mirror neuron system is matching your yawn. And what's interesting is that we know other species also have a mirror neuron system. And that means that when you yawn, there is a statistically higher chance that your dog will yawn and it's cross species. So when your dog yawns, there's a higher probability that you will yawn. And we've got this stage and it's very clear.

另一个有趣的理论是，当合作性物种，例如狮群，其中一只狮子打哈欠时，首先，许多其他狮子会以传染性的方式打哈欠。但随后，在传染性哈欠之后会发生一系列动作。因此有些人提出，打哈欠是一种实施合作性群体行为的方式。这是另一个理论。最后一个理论，第四点，我认为有最好证据支持的，不是气体交换平衡二氧化碳和氧气，而是当你从外部吸入氧气时，它通常比你的核心体温和大脑温度更低。

One of the other interesting theories, though, is that when species that are cooperative species, for example, a pride of lions, when one of those lions yawns, firstly, many of the other lions will yawn in a contagious fashion. But then consequently, is a collection of actions that happen after that contagious yawn. And so some people have suggested that the yawning is a way to enact cooperative group behavior. That's another theory. The final theory, number four, which I think has the best evidence for, is not the gaseous exchange balancing of carbon dioxide and oxygen, but when you inhale oxygen from the outside, it's usually cooler than your core body and brain temperature.

当我们吸气时，大脑温度会略微下降。而当大脑温度开始升高时，我们就会看到打哈欠的频率开始增加。所以下次你看到有人打哈欠时，别想当然地认为他们很无聊或睡眠不足。走过去，拥抱他们并说：我知道你的大脑正在变热。没关系。

And when we inhale, there is a modest drop in brain temperature. And when the brain temperature starts to rise, that's when we see yawning frequency beginning to increase. So next time you see someone yawn, don't think, oh, they're bored or they didn't get enough sleep. Go over to them, hug them and say, I know your brain is getting warm. It's okay.

然后友谊可能就此终结，因为没人应该互相拥抱并说'你的大脑很热，我很难过'。不过话说回来，抱歉我把话题带偏了，跑进了我混乱意识流的岔路。但这就是关于打哈欠的解释，那四种理论，虽然还没有定论，但我认为目前最站得住脚且会持续研究的理论是：打哈欠与大脑降温有关。

And then at that point, the friendship will be terminated because no one should be hugging each other and saying, your brain is warm. I'm so sorry. But anyway, that aside, I'm sorry I took us down that tribute tree of my polluted stream of consciousness. But that's Yawning explained, those are the four theories, and we don't have a definitive answer, but I think the best one right now that will continue is that it's about brain cooling.

这个理论很有道理。人们疲劳时往往会打哈欠。正如你提到的，人们打哈欠也可能有其他原因。如果我因为疲劳而打哈欠，而打哈欠是为了给过热的大脑降温，这是否是为了让大脑进入睡眠状态？因为我们需要让大脑降温才能入睡？还是另有原因？

That theory makes a lot of sense. People tend to yawn when they get tired. As you mentioned, people can yawn for other reasons as well. If I'm yawning because I'm tired, and yawning is to cool off my brain that's too warm, is that an attempt to put my brain to sleep because we need to cool the brain in order for it to go to sleep? Or something else going on there?

另外，这个问题某种程度上与之前关于身体姿势的问题相关。我在大学讲课已经十多年了，我知道你也是。偶尔，会有那么一个学生——开玩笑的，其实有好几个学生，特别是下午的课或大清早的课——会在椅子上打瞌睡，然后头猛地一抬惊醒过来。我们都知道，让房间保持稍微凉爽些有时有助于让人保持清醒，而不是像温暖的下午教室那样。

Also, and this sort of merges with the previous question about body position. I've lectured in the university for, you know, well over a decade, as I know you have as well. And occasionally, every once in a while, there's one student, I'm just kidding, there are several students, especially if it's an afternoon class or a very early morning class that is falling asleep in their chair, and then their head, they kind of jolt awake. And we all know that keeping the room a little bit cooler sometimes helps to keep people awake as opposed to a warm afternoon classroom. Yeah.

但在某些方面，我们现在讨论的与你之前说的相矛盾——你说在凉爽的环境中比在温暖的环境中更容易入睡。大脑需要降温才能入睡，但当我们打哈欠时，却是对大脑过热的反应，所以我有点困惑

But in some ways, what we're talking about here violates what you were talking about earlier, that it's easier to fall asleep in a cool environment as opposed to a warm environment. The brain needs to cool in order to fall asleep, but then when we yawn, it's in response to the brain being too warm, and so I'm having

帮我理清这个矛盾。是的，帮我理解一下。

Square little that circle heart for me. Yeah, help me understand.

解决这个矛盾。我喜欢这个说法。是的，请帮我解决这个

Square that circle. I like it. Yeah, please square that

矛盾，Matt。其实，要降低核心体温，相反的情况必须发生：你必须先升温才能降温，从而入睡。我指的是以一种非常具体的方式升温。你必须让大脑的外表面升温，必须让血液流向皮肤表面。

circle for me, Matt. So it turns out that for you to drop your core body temperature, the opposite has to happen, which is that you have to warm up to cool down, to fall asleep. And I mean warm up in a very specific way. You have to have the outer surface of your brain warm up. You have to get blood to the surface of your skin.

这个表面几乎像蛇的诱饵一样，它从核心吸引温暖的血液并将其推向表面，然后你通过辐射散发热量。随着热量散失，你的核心体温会急剧下降。那么为什么人们会在下午会议中，当房间开始变暖时打瞌睡呢？部分原因是房间的温暖开始让面部变得稍微红润，它正在将血液吸引到表面。

And that surface is almost acts like a snake charmer that it draws the warm blood from the core and it pushes it to the surface and you radiate the heat out. And as you radiate the heat out, your core body temperature plummets. So why would people be falling asleep sort of, you know, in an afternoon meeting when it starts to get a little warm? Well, in part, it's because the warmth of the room is starting to make the sort of face a little bit more rosy. It's drawing the blood out to the surface.

所以实际情况是，你大脑和身体的核心温度开始下降。正因如此，你会开始感到更困。这是第一个原因。你描述的第二个情况是下午，大家围坐在桌旁开会，然后开始出现，如你所说，那些可爱的'点头'现象。听众们，你们都知道那种头往下点又猛地抬起来的情况。

So what's happening, the core of your brain and your body temperature are starting to drop. And at that point, that's why you're going to start to feel a little bit more sleepy. That's reason one. The second that you described is that afternoon, you know, you're in meetings around a table, and you start to get, as you said, those wonderful head nods. And people listening, you all know that where the head goes down and snaps back up.

并不是人们在听好音乐时做这种点头晃脑的动作。而是他们正陷入我们已知的一种基因上固有的、预先编程的午后警觉性下降。这被称为餐后警觉性下降。这暗示它发生在某种餐后。但事实证明，它其实与进食并无太大关系。

It's not that people are listening to good music and sort of doing this head bobbing. It's that they're falling prey to what we know is a genetically hardwired, preprogrammed drop in your afternoon alertness. It's called the postprandial dip in alertness. And that infers that it's after some kind of a meal. It turns out it's not really related to a meal.

人们会说，嗯，我午餐吃得很饱。我午餐吃了些意大利面之类的，之后总是感到困倦。可能部分原因是这样，但如果我们取消午餐并阻止你进食——我们也做过这类研究——你的大脑仍然会在下午某个时间，大约在1点到4点之间（这个范围挺宽，但很可靠）表现出这种警觉性下降。

People say, Well, I had a heavy lunch. I had sort of pasta at lunch, and I always feel sleepy afterwards. Maybe in part, but if I remove and I prevent you from having lunch, and we've done these studies too, your brain still shows this very reliable drop in alertness somewhere between, quite wide, but somewhere between about one to 4PM in the afternoon.

是的。对我来说，总是在下午2点到3点之间，这个时间段

Yeah. For me, it's always between two and 3PM, which is a time

我现在正忍着不看表呢。

I'm where resisting looking at my watch right now.

可能正处在一天中的那个阶段。我总是能感觉到它，如果我闭上眼睛十到二十分钟，通常能很快睡着。是的，小睡一下。我知道我们稍后会讨论小睡。但如果我不睡，硬撑过去，通常到大约三点、三点半的时候，我就没事了。

Might be in that in that phase of the day. I can always feel it, and if I close my eyes for ten, twenty minutes, I usually can fall asleep pretty quickly Yeah. For a nap. I know we'll talk about naps later. But if I don't and I ride it out, I then, you know, usually by about three, 03:30, I'm fine.

精力又回升了，对吧？它有点像反弹回来，所以这部分解释了打哈欠和那种温暖的感觉：我在会议室里，百叶窗开着，阳光照进来，阳光洒在我的背上，我开始感到非常温暖，但也开始变得非常、非常困倦。这是两件事的合谋：一是你正在进入下午这个更高频率的睡眠区，即大脑警觉性的餐后下降，我们可以测量到这一点，非常可靠。

Get that rise back up, don't you? And it sort of swings back up, and so that's in part the reason, though, explaining the yawning and that warm feeling of I'm in the meeting room, the boardroom meeting, and the blinds are open, the sun is coming through, I've got the sun on my back, I'm starting to get very warm, but I'm starting to get really, really sleepy. It's the collusion of two things. It's that you're going into this higher frequency sleep zone in the afternoon, this postprandial drop in your brain alertness, and we can measure it. It's very reliable.

你可以看到大脑电活动的这个下降。同时你的体表正在变暖，这使血液流向体表，从核心释放热量，体温下降，天哪，你真是想睡觉了。

You can see this dip in your brain electrical activity. And you're getting warm at the surface, which brings blood to the surface, releases that heat from the core, it drops, and boy, do you want to fall asleep.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商InsideTracker。InsideTracker是一个个性化营养平台，通过分析你的血液和DNA数据，帮助你更好地了解自己的身体，并实现健康目标。我一直坚信应该定期进行血液检查，原因很简单：许多影响你即时和长期健康的因素，只有通过高质量的血液检测才能分析出来。然而，许多血液检测的问题是，你拿回了关于代谢因素、激素等的信息，却不知道该如何处理这些信息。InsideTracker让你很容易理解你的结果，并且还为你指明具体的指导方向，涉及营养、运动、补充剂，甚至处方药领域，帮助你将各项指标恢复到对你而言最佳的范围。

I want to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker. InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals. Now, I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done, for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long term health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test. The problem with a lot of blood tests out there, however, is that you get information back about metabolic factors, hormones, etc, but you don't know what to do with that information. With InsideTracker, they make it very easy to understand your results, and they also point you to specific directives that you can follow in the realm of nutrition, exercise, supplementation, even prescription drugs that can help bring the levels back into the ranges that are optimal for you.

InsideTracker还提供InsideTracker Pro，使教练和健康专业人士能够利用InsideTracker的分析和建议，为客户提供优质和个性化的服务。如果你想尝试InsideTracker，可以访问insidetracker.com/huberman，享受InsideTracker任何计划八折优惠。再次说明，网址是insidetracker.com/huberman。我们刚才稍微深入探讨了一些——我不想称之为题外话——但确实是关于睡眠和入睡等一些具体特点。让我们回到睡眠的不同阶段，并在“什么是优质睡眠？”这个问题下进行阐述。

InsideTracker also offers InsideTracker Pro, which enables coaches and health professionals to provide premium and personalized services by leveraging InsideTracker's analysis and recommendations with their clients. If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans. Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman. I took us on a bit of a journey into some, I don't want to call them sidebars, but some specific features around sleep and falling asleep, etcetera. Let's get back to the different stages of sleep, and frame that under the question of what is great sleep?

什么是普通睡眠？我想我们都知道糟糕的睡眠是什么，就是当你无法入睡时，但我认为还有完全不同的一类糟糕睡眠，你即将告诉我们，那就是我们自以为很好，但实际上并不如我们想象中那么好的睡眠。

What is mediocre sleep? I think we all know what bad sleep is, is when you can't get sleep, but I think there's a whole different category of bad sleep that you're going to tell us about, which is sleep that we think is good, but is actually not as good as we think it is.

我总是带来厄运和阴郁的消息。

I'm always the bearer of doom and gloom.

不，你也是提供强大工具来改善睡眠、从而提升清醒状态的人。沿着这个思路，你知道，睡眠的真正意义是什么，以及睡眠不好时会发生什么，这对大多数人来说可能更直观。你知道，哦，我会感到烦躁，或者记不住事情，或者只是，你知道，同样的压力感觉更强烈，压力似乎感觉更强烈一些。那么什么是优质睡眠？你知道，我认为这些都包含在“我们为什么需要睡眠？”这个大问题之下。

No, also the deliverer of powerful tools to improve one's sleep, and thereby wakeful state. So along those lines, you know, what is sleep for truly, and what happens when we don't sleep well is perhaps more intuitive to most people. You know, oh, I feel cranky, or I can't remember things, or I just got to, you know, stress seems to feel a little more intense, the same amount of stress feels more intense. And what is great sleep? You know, and this is, I think all under the umbrella of, you know, why do we sleep?

我的意思是，为什么我们要把生命的三分之一甚至更多时间花在我们称之为睡眠的这种身心奇妙状态中？

I mean, why do we spend a good third to, you know, or more of our life in this incredible state of mind and body that we call sleep?

当你仔细想想，这确实是一种相当惊人的愚蠢状态。因为当你睡着时，你没有在寻找伴侣，没有在繁殖，没有在觅食，没有在照顾幼崽，更糟的是，你容易受到捕食者的攻击。基于其中任何一点，尤其是所有这些原因加起来，睡眠在进化过程中本应被强烈淘汰。事实上，睡眠研究的奠基人之一艾伦·雷克特沙芬曾经说过，如果睡眠不能提供绝对重要的功能，那就是进化过程犯过的最大错误。而现在，通过过去至少七八十年近一万多项研究，我们了解到，大自然在创造睡眠这件事上并没有犯下惊人的错误。

And it really is quite a stunning state of idiocy, when you consider it. Because when you're asleep, you're not finding a mate, you're not reproducing, you're not foraging for food, you're not caring for your young, And worse still, you are vulnerable to predation. On any one of those grounds, but especially all of them as a collective, sleep should have been strongly selected against in the course of evolution. And in fact, one of the founding fathers of sleep research, Alan Rechschaften, once said that if sleep doesn't serve an absolutely vital function, it is the biggest mistake the evolutionary process has ever made. And now what we've learned through, you know, almost 10,000 plus research studies over the past, certainly seventy, eighty years now, is that nature did not make a spectacular blunder in creating this thing called sleep.

所以也许我可以先谈谈睡眠的作用是什么，以及如果我们睡眠不足会发生什么？另一个问题是什么是优质睡眠？就睡眠的作用而言，以及为什么他说大自然母亲没有犯错是对的。顺便说一句，它确实没有犯错，因为如果你回溯，迄今为止我们仔细研究过的每一个物种似乎都需要睡眠。这告诉我们，甚至非常古老、进化上古老的远古蚯蚓似乎也会睡眠。

So maybe I can firstly address what is sleep doing and what happens if we're not getting sufficient sleep? And then the other question is what is good sleep? In terms of what sleep is doing and why he was right in saying that mother nature didn't make a blunder. And it hasn't, by the way, because if you go back, every species that we have carefully studied to date seems to sleep. And what that tells us, even, you know, very old, evolutionary old, ancient earthworms seem to sleep.

它们会有一段我们称之为“昏睡期”的时间，在这期间它们似乎不活动。我提出这一点是因为这意味着睡眠似乎是随着地球上的生命本身一起进化而来的，并且它在进化道路的每一步都英勇地坚持了下来。这本身就必须告诉我们，无论睡眠在做什么，它都绝对是生命维持所必需的，不容协商。它在哪些方面是生命维持所必需的？嗯，我们现在已经知道了很多。

They will have a period of what we call lethargicus, which is where they seem to be inactive. So what I bring that point up because it means that sleep appears to have evolved with life itself on this planet, and then it has fought its way through heroically every step along the evolutionary path. And that by itself must tell us that whatever sleep is doing, it must be non negotiably life support necessary. In what ways is it life support necessary? Well, we now know many of those.

首先，当你睡眠不足时，我可以谈谈你的激素系统。假设我找一组非常健康的年轻男性，将他们的睡眠限制在每晚四到五小时，持续五晚。他们的睾酮水平会变得与比他们年长十岁的人相似。所以，睡眠不足会在五天内让你衰老十岁。我们也看到睡眠不足对女性生殖健康造成同等损害，损害雌激素、卵泡刺激素以及黄体生成素。

First, when you're not getting sufficient sleep, I can speak about your hormonal systems. Let's say I take a group of really healthy young men and I limit them to four or five hours of sleep for five nights. They will have a level of testosterone which is similar to someone who is probably ten years older than them. So a lack of sleep will age you within five days by a decade. We also see equivalent impairments in female reproductive health caused by lack of sleep, impairments in estrogen, in follicle stimulating hormone, and also in luteinizing hormone.

那么一晚睡眠不好对激素的影响呢？这里不想太深入细节，但是否需要连续四五个晚上睡眠极少才会开始看到这些影响？或者说，假设某人一周有三四个晚上睡眠良好，但另外三个晚上由于某种原因睡眠困难。是的。但是否会看到一种梯度效应，即性类固醇激素如睾酮、雌激素、卵泡刺激素出现中等程度的减少？

What about the effects of a single night's poor sleep on hormones? And not to get too down in the details here, but is it necessary to have four or five nights of minimal sleep in a row before you start to see these effects? Or let's say somebody is getting good sleep for three nights or four nights of the week, but then the other three are kind of challenging for whatever reason. Yeah. But does one see a graded effect, a kind of intermediate reduction in sex steroid hormones like testosterone, estrogen, follicle stimulation?

存在一定程度的剂量反应曲线，但我们还没有对其进行高精度绘制，所以我作为睡眠科学家希望的做法是，好吧，我先做一晚实验，将你的睡眠削减到七小时、六小时、五小时，然后做两晚实验，让你再次处于六小时、七小时、四小时的状态。我想建立起这种高保真度的图谱来理解，但我们目前还没有。但可以肯定的是，我们知道一整晚的完全剥夺会显著损害这些激素。而且我们知道，在大约一个工作周的短睡眠后，你也会看到这些损害。但让我回到你问的一晚的情况。

There is some degree of a dose response curve, but we haven't mapped it out with high, so the way I would want to do it as a sleep scientist would say, okay, I'm going to do this for one night, and I'm going to thin slice you to seven hours, six hours, five hours, and then I'm going to do it for two nights, and you're going to again be in the six hours, seven hours, four hours. I would like to build up this high fidelity map and understand that we don't have that. But certainly what we know is that a night of total deprivation will markedly impair those hormones. And we know that after about, you know, a working week of short sleep, you see those impairments too. But let me come back to you one night.

所以激素系统就是一个例子。我们已经谈过，或者我现在就再谈谈，代谢系统和另一种激素——胰岛素。我们发现，如果我再次限制你，而你完全正常、健康，没有任何二型糖尿病的迹象，我将你的睡眠限制在，比如说，每晚五小时，持续四晚，然后我测量你处理血糖的能力，你的血糖水平受损如此严重，以至于在那个时候，你的医生会将你归类为糖尿病前期。所以，我可以在一个人短睡眠五晚内，就让他走上非常接近二型糖尿病的道路。正如我所说，我们，皇家我们，是的。

So that's the hormonal system as an example. And we've already spoken, or I'll come back to it right now, the metabolic system and another hormone, insulin. What we found is that if I take you again and I limit you, and you're perfectly normal, healthy, you don't have any signs of type two diabetes, and I limit you to, let's say, five hours of sleep for four nights, and then I measure your ability to dispose of blood sugar, Your level of blood sugar impairment is so disrupted that at that point, your doctor would classify you as being pre diabetic. So I could take an individual and within five nights of short sleep, I can move them towards a path that's getting very close to type two diabetes. And as I said, we've, we, royal we, yeah.

顺便说一句，每当我用'我们'这个词，通常意味着——嗯，每当我用'我'做了什么，其实是指我的研究中心做了什么；而当我用'我们'做了什么，其实是指他们做了什么。

Whenever I say we, by the way, it usually means that, well, whenever I say I did something, I mean at my center, we did something. When I say we did something, I mean that they did something.

这是一种合理的归属简略表达。

That's a fair shorthand for attribution.

因此，已有研究深入解析了血糖受损的具体机制，我们在本期节目前面也提到过。接下来我还可以谈谈免疫系统，这是个很好的例证。首先，加州大学洛杉矶分校的Michael Irwin及其同事做了项重要研究：他们让健康受试者仅睡四小时，仅一晚。

And so, there have been studies that have really decomposed exactly how that impairment in blood sugar happens, and we mentioned that earlier in this episode. I can also then move on to, for example, your immune system. This is a very good demonstration. Firstly, there's a great study done by Michael Irwin and his colleagues at UCLA. And he took individuals, healthy individuals, and he limited them to just four hours of sleep for one single night.

他测量了关键抗癌免疫细胞——自然杀伤细胞的水平。结果发现，仅仅四小时睡眠的一晚后，自然杀伤细胞活性下降了70%。这是显著的免疫缺陷状态。打个比方：这些自然杀伤细胞就像免疫系统的特勤人员，擅长识别体内危险异物（如癌细胞）并消灭它们。

And he measured levels of critical anticancer fighting immune cells called natural killer cells. And what he found is that after that one night of just four hours of sleep, there was a 70% reduction in natural killer cell activity. That is a striking state of immune deficiency. And just to give people a reference point, these natural killer cells, think of them almost like the secret service agents of your immune system. These natural killer cells, they are very good at identifying dangerous, unwanted elements in your body like cancer and going after them and destroying them.

所以你希望体内始终保有这群强大的免疫刺客。若睡眠不足，情况可能并非如此。另一个例子：流感疫苗接种前一周睡眠不足，抗体反应会减弱超50%，导致疫苗几乎失效。我们还发现，平均睡眠不足六小时者，患普通感冒或流感的概率几乎翻三倍。

So you wish for a very virile set of these immune assassins in your body at all times. And if you're not getting sufficient sleep, that may not necessarily be the case. We also know that if you are not getting sufficient sleep in the week before you get your flu shot, and this is just another example of how sleep is critical for your immune system. If you are not getting that sleep in the week before you get your flu shot, you produce less than 50% of the normal antibody response, therefore rendering that flu shot largely ineffective in terms of vaccinating you. We also know that if you're not getting sufficient sleep on average, let's say that you're getting less than six hours of sleep or less on average, you're almost three times more likely to develop the common cold, the common flu.

我知道您在我们录制时发布过关于流感（特别是鼻病毒）的精彩内容。这充分说明了睡眠对免疫系统的影响。不仅如此，心血管系统也会因睡眠不足受损——相关数据非常确凿，包括中风和心脏病发作等心血管疾病。有一项研究很能说明问题。

And I know that you, at the time of us recording this, you've released some fantastic content about the flu and the rhinovirus in particular. So that's a good demonstration of your immune system. We also know that it's not just that, it's also your cardiovascular system that suffers when you're not getting sufficient sleep. And here again, the data, I think, is very strong cardiovascular disease writ large, including stroke and heart attack. And there is one study that I think illustrates this.

虽然效应值可能没那么大，但这项研究很有趣：它没有极端剥夺睡眠，而是利用全球性实验——每年两次涉及70个国家16.5亿人的夏令时。春天少睡一小时后，次日心脏病发作风险相对增加24%。

And granted now in terms of the replication, the effect sizes may not be as big, but this study was interesting. They didn't do something radical like depriving you of sleep for an entire night, nor did they just limit you to five hours of sleep for, you know, four nights. There is a global experiment, sleep experiment, that is performed on about 1,650,000,000 people across 70 countries twice a year. And it's called daylight savings time. Now, in the spring, when we lose an hour of sleep, what they observed in that paper was a twenty four percent relative increase in heart attack risk the following day.

而秋天多睡一小时时，心脏病风险降低21%。所以是双向影响的。顺便说，尽管该研究某些方面存疑，但已被重复验证：春天少睡一小时后，住院率上升，交通事故增多。

Yet in the autumn, in the fall, when you gain an hour of sleep, there was a twenty one percent reduction in heart. So it's bidirectional. And by the way, and as I said, that paper, there are some aspects that you can sort of discuss, but it has been replicated. We see increased rates of hospitalization after that one hour of lost sleep in the spring. There are higher rates of car accidents on the road after one hour of lost sleep.

春季调时少睡一小时后，自杀率也会升高。甚至还有项精彩数据：研究者分析了美国联邦法官的判决记录——由于联邦体系档案完善，形成了庞大数据库。

We also see higher rates of suicide after one hour of lost sleep during the spring time change. We even see this great data. They looked at the sentencing of federal judges in The United States. And because it's the federal system, the government system, all of those things are cataloged and well documented. So you have a huge database.

回溯发现：春季少睡一小时后，法官们因情绪状态受损，会在次日给出最严厉的联邦判决。我们后续节目也会讨论这点。所以若面临判决，尽量避开春季调时——如果可能，选在秋季日期吧。

And they went back. And what they found is that in the spring, when we all lose that one hour of sleep opportunity, those judges doled out harshest federal sentencing in the day after they had lost one hour of sleep because their emotional and mood states were impaired. We'll speak about this in a later episode, too. So if you are up for sentencing, try to avoid that spring time change as best you can. Go the fall date if it's possible.

这就是你的心血管系统。我还可以告诉你，它一直延伸到身体的细胞和分子层面。我这样做是为了强调睡眠的根本重要性。英国萨里大学的我的同事们，由Dirk Jan Dyke领导，在早期进行了一项精彩的研究。他们证明，如果你让健康个体（每个人都将作为自己的对照组）在一周内限制睡眠时间为六小时，而对照组则允许他们睡至少八个半小时或更长时间。

So that's your cardiovascular system. I could also tell you that it goes all the way down into the cellular and molecular state of your body. And this, I'm trying to do this to impress the fundamental importance of sleep. There was a wonderful study done by my colleagues at the University of Surrey back in The UK led by Dirk Jan Dyke. And what they demonstrated was that if you take healthy individuals and everyone is going to act as their own control, And you limit them to six hours of sleep for one week versus allowing them to sleep at least eight and a half hours or more time in bed.

所以这是一个相关的生态操纵。第二个结果是，这些基因中约有一半的活动增加了，另一半减少了。那些因一周短睡眠而受损的基因是与免疫系统相关的基因。所以，你可以再次看到这种免疫缺陷，但这次是在基因层面上显现。

So it's a relevant ecological manipulation. The second result was that about half of those genes were increased in their activity. The other half were decreased. Now, those genes that were impaired by way of one week of short sleep were genes associated with the immune system. So once again, you can see this immune deficiency, but now playing out at a genetic level.

哦，我不同意。

Oh, I disagree.

嗯，我当时，我认为我非常绝对主义，但我已经吸取了教训。

Well, I was, I think I was very absolutist, and I've learnt my lesson.

我做得够多了，就此打住。

I I do enough with that will stop

试图拒绝那个。但我也

trying to reject that. But I would also

各位，请在YouTube评论区留言，无论你是同意我的观点，还是同意Matt的观点，然后，你知道的，感谢你们的认同

Folks, put in the comments on YouTube, whether or not you agree with me, or you agree with Matt, and then, you know, and thanks for agreeing

我的观点。不过我想说，请不要像你提到的那样开始焦虑，如果你觉得入睡困难，听我说话首先可能不会让情况好转。但即使作为普通大众，也不要认为：看，我有一晚没睡好，就意味着我会得阿尔茨海默病吗？绝对不是。

with me. I would say, though, that please don't start, as you mentioned, that getting anxious if you're not finding it easy to fall asleep, that listening to me is, firstly probably not going to make matters any better. But don't think even if you're in the general public that, look, I had one bad night of sleep. Does it mean I'm now going to develop Alzheimer's disease? Absolutely not.

我们并不是在暗示这一点。我们讨论的是一种模式，在这种模式下，一周又一周，一月又一月，是的，我已经证明，仅仅一晚睡眠不足，你就能看到可测量的功能受损。而且我无法对科学数据不诚实，但这并不像人们想象的那么灾难性。正如你所说，在这个系列中，我们也会大量讨论如何开始优化你的睡眠。所以感谢你提供这个机会。

There's we're not suggesting that. We're talking about a model in which, you know, week after week, month after month, yes, I've demonstrated that, you know, after just one night of something, of short sleep, you can see measurable impairments. And we can, and I can't, you know, I can't be untruthful about the scientific data, but it's not as catastrophic as one may think. And as you said, in this series, we will also speak and focus a great deal about what can you do to start to try to optimize your sleep. So thank you for that opportunity.

绝对如此。所以有很多事情

Absolutely. So lots of things

当我们长期睡眠不足时，会对我们产生不良影响。

not good for us happen when we don't sleep enough on a consistent basis.

是的。

Yes.

让我们面对现实，一晚没睡好没什么大不了的。我的意思是，如果情况真是那样，我们人类早就灭绝了，更不用说所有那些熬夜的父母，比如遇到紧急情况，或者邻居的狗在叫，或者你去一个太热的Airbnb睡不着。但很明显，当我们长期睡眠不足时，坏事就开始发生。我们较少听到关于睡好觉带来的好处。也许我们可以谈谈其中一些。

One poor night's sleep, let's face it. I mean, our species would cease to exist if that were the case, besides all these parents that have stayed up, where you have a, you know, an emergency or the neighbor's dog is barking, or you go to an Airbnb where it's too warm and you can't sleep. I mean, but clearly bad things start to happen when we are chronically sleep deprived. We hear less often about the great things that happen when we get great sleep. Perhaps we can talk about a few of those.

我的意思是，显然，其中很多好处将恰好是你刚才描述的反面。但例如，学习、神经可塑性，即神经系统响应经验而改变的能力。睡眠不足会损害学习。是的。没错。

I mean, obviously, many of them are going to be just the inverse of what you just described. But for instance, learning, neuroplasticity, the nervous system's ability to change in response to experience. Sleep deprivation impairs learning. Yes. Yeah.

而一夜好眠会让学习变得容易得多，对吧？关于睡眠和学习之间的关系，数据怎么说？同样，我们将会更详细地探讨这一点，但你能给我们一些提示吗？你能给我们一些激励，让我们不仅因为恐惧，而且因为好处而获得良好睡眠吗？我们听到了大棒，你知道的，给我们点胡萝卜吧。

And a great night's sleep makes it a lot easier to learn, right? What are the data in terms of the relationship between sleep and learning? Again, something we're going to go into in quite a bit more detail, but can you give us a, can you throw us a bone about some of that, can you incentivize us for getting good sleep, not just through fear, but we heard the sticks, you know, throw us a carrot.

是的，有太多美妙的胡萝卜了。当你睡觉时，你的大脑能力及其学习中心更准备好吸收信息。所以，想想大脑中的这些记忆中心，如果你睡得好，它们几乎就像一块干海绵。它们非常兴奋地吸收新信息并保留这些信息。因此，首先，学习前的睡眠将帮助你非常有效地获取和铭刻新记忆。

Yeah, so there are so many wonderful carrots. So when you are sleeping, your brain's capacity and its learning centers are so much more ready to absorb information. So think about these memory centers in the brain, almost like a dry sponge if you've been sleeping well. And they are so excited to soak up new information and retain that information. So firstly, sleep before learning is going to help you acquire and imprint new memories very effectively.

我们已经证明了这一点，我会在后续节目中详细介绍这些研究。我们还知道，学习后的睡眠会产生美妙的效果。它会将这些新形成的记忆进行巩固，将其固定在大脑中，几乎像是用混凝土将它们浇筑在大脑里。因此，你丢失这些记忆的可能性大大降低，也就是说，如果你在学习后睡眠，遗忘的可能性会小得多。但这还不是全部。

And we've demonstrated that, I'll tell you about the studies in a later episode. We also know, though, sleep after learning does something delicious. It will take those freshly minted memories and it will consolidate them into the brain, meaning that it will start to fixate them, almost like sort of setting them in concrete into the brain. And so you are far less likely to lose those memories, which is to say you are far less likely to forget if you've been sleeping after you've learned. It's not just that though.

睡眠不仅仅强化单个记忆。它会开始交叉链接并将这些记忆连接在一起。因此，第二天醒来时，你的记忆库已经用最新信息进行了更新，并且这些信息被整合和关联起来。现在你能够为自己面临的问题提出新的创造性解决方案，因为你更新了大脑中的关联网络。这就是为什么人们会描述通过睡眠获得洞察力和解决问题的能力。

Sleep does more than simply strengthen those individual memories. Sleep will start to cross link and connect those memories together. And as a consequence, the next day you will wake up and those, that memory back catalog has now been updated with all of the recent information and it's integrated and it's associated. So you are now able to come up with new creative solutions to issues or problems that you've been facing because you've updated what we call the associative networks in your brain. And this is the reason that people will describe having had these insights by way of sleep and these problem solving capacities.

对我来说，真正的好学生不仅仅是能够学习所有死记硬背的事实然后复述出来。单个记忆如果像孤立岛屿一样存在，并不特别有用。这就是为什么你的笔记本电脑——只要它没有连接到互联网和OpenAI——并不特别智能。我的意思是，它的存储能力几乎比你的大脑更完美，它不会犯我们那种记忆错误。

And really, that's what, to me, a good student is not simply a student who can learn all of the individual rote facts and then just regurgitate them. An individual memory is not sitting as an isolate island is not particularly useful. That's why your laptop isn't, well, as long as it's not connected to the internet now and OpenAI, it's not particularly intelligent. I mean, it has a storage capacity that is almost more perfect than your brain. It doesn't make some of the memory sort of mistakes that we do.

它不如我们智能的部分原因在于它没有整合信息。它不会链接所有...如果你某天醒来，在电脑上安装了一个程序，然后电脑就理解了所有文件是如何相互关联的，那该多好啊？它会说：好的，你双击了这个文件，现在我要告诉你这里有一些相关信息。你应该把这些内容拉进来，它会增强你正在写的这段文字，或者改进你正在构思的实验想法。

The reason it's not as intelligent as we are, in part, is because it has not integrated the information. It doesn't link all of the Wouldn't it be wonderful if you woke up one day and you'd installed a program on your computer and your computer just understood how all of the files were interrelated and connected? And it was saying, okay, you know, you've double clicked on this file. Well, now I'm going to tell you that there is this related information. You should pull this in here and it would enhance this paragraph that you're working on, or it would improve this experimental idea that you're coming.

电脑做不到这一点，但你的大脑可以。它是如何做到的？部分原因是睡眠正在构建这些关联网络。所以好学生不仅仅是学习死记硬背的事实，而是学习事实然后理解它们的含义。

It doesn't do that, but your brain does that. How does it do that? In part, it's because sleep is building these associative networks. So it's not simply the student who learns the rote facts. It's the student who learns the facts and then understands what they mean.

睡眠不仅仅关乎学习，也不仅仅关乎知识。它关乎智慧，即当你把所有信息整合在一起时知道它们的意义。这是睡眠的另一个作用。这些是通过学习和记忆可以获得的一些好处。

Sleep is not just about learning. And it's not just about knowledge. It's about wisdom, which is knowing what it all means when you fit it together. And that's one of the other roles of sleep. So those are some of the beneficial things that sort of the carrots that can come by way of your learning and memory.

但还有太多其他好处。我们描述过免疫系统在深度睡眠期间如何得到恢复和增强。但还有其他益处。我们发现的一件事——希望以后能详细讨论——是睡眠几乎能重启你的情绪和心境状态。因此，第二天醒来时，你会穿上完全不同的情绪外衣。

There are so many other carrots, though. We described for your immune system how there is this restoration that happens during deep sleep, and it primes that. But there are other benefits too. One of the things that we've discovered, and we hopefully will get to discuss this in more detail, is that sleep provides almost a rebooting of your emotional and your mood states. And as a consequence, you wake up the next day and you are dressed with a very different set of emotional clothing.

当你获得睡眠时，它就像一套情绪雨刷，刚刚把这些东西清除干净，然后你醒来。这就是为什么人们会说：如果有事情困扰你，别担心，等到明天再说。好好睡一觉，明天可能会感觉更好。这种'感觉更好'的概念就是睡眠作为情绪安抚剂的作用，它能抚平那些我们情感上的粗糙边缘——就像CD被划伤一样（如果现在还有人知道CD是什么的话）。

And sleep, when you're getting it, almost it's like a set of emotional windscreen wipers that has just cleared those things off and you wake up. It's the reason that people will tell you, you know, if something is troubling you, don't worry. Just come back tomorrow. Just give it a night of sleep and you'll probably feel better tomorrow. That feeling better notion is sleep acting as this emotional balm that just soothes that, those jagged edges that we've, you know, been sort of almost like a CD getting scratched, if anyone out there knows what a CD is these days.

但我们受到的这些情感创伤，睡眠也开始治愈它们。这些都是好处。我还可以提到体重控制和体重增加的其他方面。这是一个非常非常大的效应量。睡眠几乎在脑部和身体健康的每个方面都产生显著影响。

But, you know, these scratches that we get, emotional wounds, sleep is starting to heal those as well. So those are benefits. I could also mention some other aspects of your weight control and your weight gain. And this is a huge, huge effect size. Sleep moves the needle on almost every aspect of brain and body health.

我认为现阶段非常清楚的是：你身体的任何组织或主要生理系统，以及心智的任何运作，在获得充足睡眠时都会得到显著增强，在睡眠不足时都会明显受损。但在食欲和体重调节方面，这种影响是巨大的。首先我们知道，当你获得充足睡眠时，你可以产生两种食欲调节激素——瘦素和饥饿素的良好浓度比例。让我反过来举例可能更好理解：假设我剥夺你的睡眠。

I think it's very clear at this stage that there is no single tissue or major physiological system in your body and no operation of your mind that isn't wonderfully enhanced by sleep when you get it or demonstrably impaired when you don't get enough. But when it comes to appetite and regulation of weight gain, this is immense. Firstly, what we know is that when you're getting sufficient sleep, you can create a nice concentration ratio of two appetite regulating hormones called leptin and ghrelin. And let me go sort of in the reverse to probably give you a better example. Let me say I deprive you of sleep.

我们看到的是这两种激素——我开玩笑说它们听起来像《指环王》里的霍比特人名字瘦素和饥饿素，但它们不是，它们是真实的激素。瘦素本质上是一个信号，告诉你的大脑：好了，你对食物感到满足，你吃饱了，不想再吃了。所以饥饿感和食欲会下降。而饥饿素则相反，当饥饿素增加时，它就成了饥饿的信号，即使吃了一顿饱饭，你也会越来越不满足。

And what we see is that these two hormones that, and I joke, you know, that they sometimes sound like leptin and grenlin sound like hobbits from Lord of the Rings, but they're not, they're real hormones. And leptin essentially is the signal that tells your brain, okay, you're satiated by your food, you're full and you don't want to eat more. So hunger and appetite decrease. Ghrelin does the opposite. When ghrelin increases, now it's the signal of hunger and you get increasingly unsatisfied despite eating a full meal.

如果你体内的饥饿素水平仍然很高，你就不会对那顿饭感到满足，许多听众可能会开始说：我有这种感觉，就是有时候我只是在吃东西，但就是感觉不到满足。我怀疑，那些日子可能是你睡眠不好的时候。我想每个人都有过这种感觉：昨晚没睡好，然后就变得饥肠辘辘，释放出一种难以抑制的饥饿和食欲。这部分原因就在于这两种激素。所以当我们睡眠不足时，瘦素——那个告诉你'对食物感到满足，停止进食'的信号——会因为睡眠不足而受损。

If you've got still high levels of ghrelin, you don't feel satisfied with that meal, and many people listening may start to say, I have this feeling where I'm just eating, and I just don't feel satisfied on some days. And those days, I suspect, can be days when you are not sleeping well. And I think everyone has had this feeling of saying, I just didn't sleep well last night, and I just get ravenous, and I just unleash this unholy hunger and appetite. That's in part because these two hormones. So what happens is that when we're not getting sufficient sleep, leptin, the signal that says you're satisfied with food, stop eating, that is impaired by way of lack of sleep.

如果这还不够糟糕的话，那么饥饿素——那个说'不，你对食物不满足，多吃点'的饥饿信号——反而会增加。这几乎像是双重打击。你因为同一个'不睡觉的罪行'受到了两次惩罚：一次是通过瘦素下降让你停止进食，另一次是通过饥饿素让你踩下油门开始进食。这就是为什么当你睡眠不足时，你的腰围可能会开始扩大。

If that wasn't bad enough, the hormone ghrelin that says, no, you're not satisfied with your food, eat more, that's the signal of hunger, that increases. So it's almost like double jeopardy. You're getting punished twice for the same crime of not sleeping. Once by way of a drop in leptin, stop eating, and once by way of ghrelin, foot to the floor acceleration, I want to start eating. That's in part why you're going to, your waistline can start to expand when you're not getting sufficient sleep.

但当你获得充足睡眠时，这是一种极好的控制方式。我向你保证，如果你开始改善睡眠，你调节基础食欲和饥饿水平的能力将会下降。但这不仅仅是你想少吃点，或者至少想根据你的体重摄入适量的食物。还包括你想吃什么。我们发现，当你再次睡眠不足时，你会开始吃得更多。

But when you do, it's fantastic way of controlling. I guarantee you, if you start to implement better sleep, your ability to regulate your basal levels of appetite and hunger will decline. But it's not just that you want to eat less or you at least want to eat an appropriate amount for your body mass. It's also what you want to eat. And what we've discovered is that when you are, again, not getting sufficient sleep, you start to eat more.

是的，确实如此。但你会更想吃特定的东西。你会渴望那些高能量的、容易饱腹的碳水化合物，比如面包、意大利面、土豆和披萨。同时你也会渴望简单糖类。我们知道，过量摄入这些食物可能会成为我们所说的致肥胖食物。

Yes, you do. But you eat more of specific things. You crave things like these heavy hitting sort of stodgy carbohydrates, like bread and pasta and potatoes and pizza. And also you crave simple sugars. And so those foods we know in excess can be what we call obesogenic foods.

这些食物会导致你体重快速增加。而当你获得充足睡眠时，你会走向食物区说：看，实际上我觉得沙拉、健康坚果、水果这些东西今天看起来相当诱人；相反当你睡眠不足时，你只想追求垃圾食品，因为你有种想吃零食的冲动。有趣的是，最近的一项发现又回到了这种‘零食冲动’的概念上。当我说我有零食冲动时，人们有时会联想到毒品 reference。他们会说，嗯，我抽了大麻。

They are foods that can lead you to a more rapid amount of weight gain. Whereas when you are getting sufficient sleep, now you are reaching at the food bar for, you are saying, watch, actually I think the salad and those healthy nuts and the fruits and those things look quite appetizing today versus when you are under slept, all you want to do is go after the junk food and because you've kind of got these munchies. What's interesting is that a recent discovery came back to that notion of the munchies. When I say I got the munchies, people sometimes think of a drug reference. They'll say, well, I've been smoking weed.

我总是有吃零食的冲动。这是为什么？因为当你摄入大麻和这些大麻素，这些我们称为外源性大麻素的物质时，它们会增加你的食欲。它们会刺激你的食欲。大麻素是刺激食欲的成分。

I always get the munchies. Why is that? Because when you are bringing in cannabis into the body and these cannabinoids, these what we call exogenous cannabinoids, they will increase your appetite. They will stimulate your appetite. Cannabinoids are appetite stimulating components.

但我们体内都会产生自己版本的大麻素，你之前提到过的内源性大麻素。当你睡眠不足时，大脑会释放更多的内源性大麻素。这就是为什么你会有这种强烈冲动的原因之一。因此，当你开始睡得更好时，你就能调节所有这些激素和化学物质，你的食欲得到控制。当你进食时，你会对食物感到满足。

But we all have our own version of cannabinoids that we produce inside of our body that you've spoken about before called endocannabinoids. When you are under slept, the brain releases more endocannabinoids. And that's in part why you get this strong impulse. And thus, ergo, when you start sleeping better, you moderate all of these hormones and these chemicals, and your appetite is controlled. When you eat, you feel satisfied with your food.

你不会渴望更多。当你选择食物时，你会做出更好的选择。我们进行了一项脑成像研究，让睡眠不足的个体在脑部扫描仪中观看食物项目。他们必须评分，比如我有多渴望、多想要这些项目？这些项目范围从非常健康的食物一直到不健康的食物。

You're not craving more. When you make your food choices, you're making better food choices. We did a study with brain imaging where we underslept individuals and we had them see food items inside of a brain scanner. And they had to rate, you know, how much do I desire and how much do I want these items? And those items range from very healthy items all the way to unhealthy items.

比如冰淇淋、披萨之类的美食，还有甜食、糖果，就像你们这边常说的那样。我们查看了他们的评分。顺便说一下，为了让这更符合实际情况——因为你可能会说，他们知道什么是健康选择，所以可能只是政治正确地说‘哦，我渴望健康食物’——我们试图绕过这一点的方法是：我们告诉他们，任何他们说想要的食物，当他们离开扫描仪后，我们实际上准备了所有这些食物，而且他们必须吃掉。所以他们做出了更真实的选择。每个人进行了两次实验，一次是在整晚睡眠后，另一次是在睡眠显著减少后。

Things like ice cream and sort of pizza and all of that good stuff and sweets, candy, as you would say over here. And we looked at their ratings. And by the way, to make this a more ecological, because you could say, well, they're going to know what's the healthy choice, so they're probably just going to be politically correct and say, oh, I desire the healthy food because the way that we tried to get around that was we said, anything that you said was desirable, when you come outside of the scanner, we've actually got all of these foods, and you're gonna have to eat them. So they were making more realistics. And each person went through the experiment twice, one night after a full night of sleep, one night with significantly less sleep.

果然，在扫描仪中，他们评价不健康食物更具吸引力。所以你的偏好正在向不健康的方向发展。但有趣的是大脑内部的变化。我们发现额叶区域——这些位于眼睛上方的区域，几乎像大脑的首席执行官，帮助调节我们的深层情绪中枢——这些大脑区域因睡眠不足而停止工作。而那些通常与更多享乐奖赏相关的情绪中枢，在具有所谓享乐性饮食模式的肥胖人群中也会过度活跃，这些区域因睡眠不足而被激活了。

And sure enough, inside of the scanner, they were rating unhealthier foods as more desirable. So your preference was going in that unhealthy direction. But what was interesting was what was going on in the brain. We saw that the frontal lobe regions, these sort of areas that sit above our eyes that almost act like the CEO of the brain, and they help regulate our deep emotional centers, those regions of the brain had gone offline by way of a lack of sleep. And these emotional centers that are usually associated with more hedonic reward, and they're also excessively more active in people with obesity who have what we call hedonic eating patterns, those regions were ramped up by way of a lack of sleep.

所以不仅仅是身体内的化学变化促使你吃得更多。大脑中的变化也阻止你做出健康的食物选择。但在控制条件下获得充足睡眠时，当他们得到睡眠时，他们的大脑完美地调节着最佳食物选择。这又是一个'胡萝卜'的例子（此处双关语），当你获得睡眠时，如果你想管理身体成分和食欲，获得充足睡眠实际上是一个非常强大的工具，我们可能低估了它。

So it's not just that there are chemical changes in your body that conspire to have you eat more. There are also changes in your brain that prevent you from making the healthy food choices. But when you're getting sufficient sleep in the controlled condition, when they were getting that sleep, their brain was beautifully regulating the optimal food choices. So that's just another example of a carrot, pun intended now, that when you're getting sleep, if one of the ways you want to manage your body composition and manage your appetite is by way of getting sufficient sleep. It's actually a very powerful tool that we probably underrate.

然后我要说的另一个方面是情绪和心理健康。每个人都知道，当你睡眠不足时，你的情绪状态会像飞镖一样直线下降。就是那种'我突然爆发了……'的感觉。这些通常是由睡眠不好的人说出来的话。但当你睡得好时，调节和管理这些情绪就容易多了。

And then this other aspect, I would say, is emotional and mental wellness. Everyone knows that your emotional and mood states will take a nosedive like a dart into the ground when you're not getting sufficient sleep. It's that idea of I just snapped, dot dot dot. And those are the words that usually, you know, are uttered by people who are not usually sleeping very well. But when you're getting good sleep, it's so much easier to regulate and manage those emotions.

迈克尔·格兰德诺，一位伟大的睡眠研究者，他做了一项有趣的研究，就像我读到的许多同事的研究一样，我最初的反应是嫉妒，因为这项研究太好了，我嫉妒自己没想到这个主意。现在，随着年龄增长，我已经摆脱了那种自负，很快我就会想这是最好的论文，迫不及待要发推文分享。但他做了一项很棒的研究，而且就在最近。他问：人们想要改善睡眠的原因是什么？你会以为我们几十年前就应该知道这个了。

And Michael Grandno, great sleep researcher, he did an interesting study, and it was one of those studies, like many studies I read from my colleagues, that my initial reaction to the study was jealousy, because it was such a good study, and I was jealous that I didn't think of the idea. And now, gradually, with my senior age, I've disabused myself of that ego, and very quickly, I then think this is the best paper, I can't wait to tweet it out. But he did a great study, and it was only quite recently. He asked, What are the reasons that people want to try to improve sleep? You would have thought that we'd have known this decades ago.

这个问题与你问的关于这些'胡萝卜'的观点相关。我知道世界上可能仍然存在某种程度的睡眠缺失流行病。仍然有那种'我死后才能睡觉'的睡眠男子气概心态。那么我们如何激励人们呢？我可以用'大棒'方式，做那种'流血就上头版'的末日预言，这确实能起到激励作用。

And it's a relevant question to the point that you're asking, which is about these carrots. I know that there is still probably some degree of a sleep loss epidemic out there in the world. There is still that sleep machismo mentality that I can sleep when I'm dead. So how can we try to motivate people? Well, I can do it with the stick and I can do the whole sort of, you know, if it bleeds, it leads and do the doomsday stuff, and that can motivate.

但为什么我不试着了解对大多数人来说，什么会促使他们采取更好的睡眠行为呢？他们询问了各种不同的选项。在论文最后，当他们做完所有统计分析后，有两个结果特别突出：我想改善睡眠是因为我想改善情绪；我想改善睡眠是因为我想改善体重。

But why don't I try to understand what it would be for most people that would have them try to enact better sleep behaviors? And they asked all sorts of different options. And the two things at the end of the paper, when they did all the statistics that stood out like two sore thumbs. I want to try to improve my sleep because I want to improve my mood. I want to improve my sleep because I want to improve my body weight.

人们知道这一点。他们早就知道了。我们不需要给他们看数据。所以这很有趣。我只是把这两点作为'胡萝卜'的例子提出来。

People know it. They already knew it. We didn't have to show them the data. And so it's just interesting. So I'm just bringing those two things up as carrot examples.

当然，还有很多其他的例子。

There are many others, of course, too.

这些都是获得充足睡眠后可以得到的'胡萝卜'的绝佳例子。我们稍后会讨论睡眠质量和其他重要特征。但我很好奇，为什么当我们睡眠不足时，会出现眼袋，皮肤健康也会受到影响，甚至一天就能看出来。如果你很了解某人，经常见到他们，某天他们走进来看起来特别休息得好。是的，我们会觉得他们可以说是'神采奕奕'，但你经常能从他们的皮肤和眼睛看出来——眼睛有多明亮，睁得多开，但也能看到眼袋。

Terrific examples of carrots that one can get if they get adequate sleep. And we'll talk about quality and some other features of sleep that are important in just a moment. But I'm curious, how come when we are sleep deprived, we get bags under our eyes and our skin health shows it, like even one day, you know, if you know someone well and you see them regularly and they walk in and they look particularly well rested. Yeah. So we, you know, we think they're, you know, kind of bright eyed and bushy tailed, so to speak, but you can often see it in their skin and in their eyes, how glassy their eyes are, how open their eyes are, but also the bags under their eyes.

当然，各位，永远不要对某人说'你看起来很累'。正确的方式是，如果某天他们看起来特别休息得好，就说'你看起来休息得很好'。实际上我今天就跟你说过这句话。你确实说了。确实说了。

And of course, folks, never say to somebody, you look tired. It's the other way to do it is just if they look particularly well rested on a given day, say, you look well rested. Actually, I told you that today. You did. Did.

没错。我本来都忘了，但现在想起来了。确实如此。你看起来休息得很好，毕竟是睡眠专家嘛。为什么我们睡眠不足会这么快就显现在皮肤上？

That's right. Would have forgot about that, but now I remember. And it's true. You look very well rested, being the sleep guy and all. Why do we show our lack of sleep in our skin so rapidly?

这几乎就像个温度计，能显示某人前一晚睡了多久。

It's almost like a thermometer on how much sleep somebody got the night before.

这很惊人，不是吗？你几乎能看出来，比如如果你有伴侣，早上他们走进厨房时你看他们一眼——因为你对那张脸太熟悉了，那是烙印在你脑海中成千上万次的面孔——你能注意到细微变化，有时能感觉到他们确实看起来很累。但你说得完全对，你不会直接说这个。你只会问：早上好吗？需要我做点什么吗？

It's stunning, isn't it? And you can almost see it, you know, if you have a partner and they come through to the sort of kitchen in the morning and they look at you and because you're so familiar with that face, because it's a face that is imprinted on you thousands of times, you can notice subtle changes and you can sometimes sense, you know, they do look tired, but you're absolutely right. You don't say that. You just say, How are you this morning? And is there anything I can do for you?

要我给你泡杯咖啡吗？

Should I make you a coffee?

也许你该回去再睡会儿。

Maybe you should go back to sleep.

是啊是啊。我觉得这是种政治不正确但委婉的说法，意思就是：老天，你看起来真累。关于这点有两个原因：第一，这要回归到免疫系统。那种苍白的脸色，几乎病态的肤质，部分原因是你已经看到了免疫系统受影响的表现。

Yeah, yeah. I think that's the politically incorrect, indirect way of saying, Boy, do you look tired. Two things on that front. The first, it comes back to the immune system. That sort of pale parlor in a face, almost that sickly looking skin, in part is because you're already seeing the effects of the immune system.

黑眼圈也是同样道理。人类似乎有种我称之为'重启周期'的机制，这个周期大约是16小时。在清醒约16小时后，我们需要约8小时左右的睡眠——建议是7到9小时，不必拘泥于8小时。

And it's the same with the bags under the eyes. That part of this reboot of the human being, you know, that human beings seem to have what I would describe as a recycle rate. And it seems to be about sixteen hours. That after about sixteen hours of wakefulness, we need about an eight hour ish, and it's seven to nine hours is the recommendation. Don't get hung up on eight.

我们稍后会详细讨论这点。但睡眠似乎是重置整个人体健康与生理机能所必需的。其中之一就是免疫系统，睡眠不足会让人呈现病容和黑眼圈。这部分解释了现象。我同事蒂娜·桑德兰在瑞典卡罗林斯卡学院做过一项很棒的研究。

And we'll speak about exactly that in a second. But that seems to be required to reset this whole panoply of health and physiology of a human being. One of the things is the immune system, and you get this sickly look about individuals and you get the bags under the eyes. So that in part explains it. There was a great study done by a colleague of mine, Tina Sunderland, and working out in Sweden at the Karolinska.

这又是我认为非常天才的研究之一。该研究分为两部分：首先让参与者经历一夜睡眠剥夺或充足睡眠（实际上每个人都经历了两种状态），之后在相同光照条件下进入摄影棚拍摄肖像照。

And this again was one of those studies that I just thought was so genius. And it was a two part study. They firstly took individuals and they sleep deprived them for a night, or they allowed them to sleep well. In fact, they went through both of those. And after a full night of sleep or after a night of sleep deprivation, they went into a studio and they had the picture taken.

于是每位参与者都有两张头像照：一张睡眠不足时，一张睡眠充足时。太好了，接下来是实验的第二部分。

They had a portrait shot done under identical lighting conditions. So now for every participant in the study, you've got two headshots. One of when they were sleep deprived, one when they were sleep rested. Great. Now came the second part of the experiment.

然后他们收集了所有这些类型的头部特写照片，并招募了一组新的参与者作为独立评审团。这些评审者对实验条件和刚刚进行的操作一无所知。他们只是看到这些图像，并被要求评价这个人看起来有多吸引人、有多健康，以及有多疲惫。同样，他们对实验背景完全不知情。果然，在极高的统计概率下，当展示的是睡眠不足时拍摄的照片时，他们评价该个体看起来更不吸引人、面容更显病态，同时也显得更疲惫。

They then took all of those kind of headshots and they recruited a new set of participants who acted as an independent set of judges. And those judges knew nothing about the experimental conditions and the manipulations that had just happened. They were simply shown these images and they were asked to rate how attractive does this person look, how healthy does this person look, and how tired does this person look. And again, they knew nothing about what was going on. Sure enough, with very high statistical probability, when the headshot that was taken when they were underslept, they rated that individual as looking less attractive, as looking more sickly in terms of their appearance, and also looking more tired.

因此，他们首先证明了所谓的'美容觉'确实存在——当你获得充足睡眠时，你会呈现更吸引人的面貌。但他们还注意到人们脸上那种病态的构成。所以这其实是在用很长的篇幅解释眼袋的成因。抱歉，安德鲁，我又跑题了。

So first they had proven this thing called beauty sleep, that you look a more attractive version of you when you're getting sufficient sleep. But they also notice this sickliness sort of composition to someone's face. So that's a very long way of explaining the bags under the eyes. I'm sorry. I go off in these tangents, Andrew.

完全不是跑题。我问了，你回答了，这就是我们讨论的内容。好的，那么你已经解释了睡眠的不同维度、基础生理机制，以及睡眠不足或充足带来的一些心理和生理后果等等。我认为每个人都在问自己的问题是：第一，应该睡多久？

Not a tangent at all. I asked, you answered, and and here we are. Okay. So you've been explaining the different dimensions of sleep, the underlying physiology, some of the psychological and physiological consequences of getting not enough sleep, enough sleep, etcetera. I think a question that everybody is asking themselves is, a, how much sleep should they get?

第二，什么才是真正优质的睡眠？当然还有所有其他睡眠参数，比如不考虑是否稍微倾斜或侧卧等等。我们应该如何理解你称之为睡眠的这个活动？应该如何分解它？我们需要考虑哪些变量来评估自己睡眠质量的好坏，或者说得更直接些——如何优化我们的睡眠？

And b, what is really great sleep? And then of course, there are all these other parameters sleep, you know, leaving aside, you know, whether or not one sleeps, you know, a little bit reclined or on their side, etcetera. You know, how should we think about this activity that you're calling sleep? How should we break it down? What are the variables that we need to think about in terms of being able to ask ourselves how well or poorly we're doing, and for lack of a better way to put it, to optimize our sleep?

在我看来，'什么是优质睡眠'这个问题，初看似乎很明显。早上你可以问你的伴侣：'你睡得怎么样？'然后你会得到答案，比如'睡得不错'或'我觉得没睡好'。

So I think to me, the question of what is good sleep? At first, it seems to be obvious. You can come through, again, to your partner in the morning and they'll say, How did you sleep? And you have an answer. You know, I slept well or I don't think I did sleep well.

所以我们都有某种主观感受。但科学和医学在大多数情况下通常采用一个单一的衡量标准，我认为这是合理的，那就是睡眠时长。你会听到这样的说法：我们需要多少睡眠？优质睡眠应该是什么样的？答案是一个量化指标：大约7到9小时。不过实际上，我会给出不同的回答。

So we all have some subjective sense. But science, for the most part, science and medicine, has usually used a singular rubric, which I think is reasonable, which is quantity. So you would hear that, okay, how much sleep do we need and what would that look like to be good sleep? And the answer is, it's a quantitative answer, somewhere between seven to nine hours. Well, actually, I would answer it differently.

如果有人问：普通人需要多少睡眠？我会说：'大约还需要多睡90分钟。'

If someone said, how much sleep does an average person need? I would say, About ninety minutes more.

你这个答案真是……看看你会给出的回答

You That's look at the answer you would give

每个人都会问……是的，'我需要多少睡眠？'我会说：'根据平均数据来看，可能还需要多睡90分钟左右。'但先不说这90分钟……

every Yeah, how much sleep do I need? And I would say, Probably about ninety minutes more, if you look at the average data. But setting that 90.

九零（90分钟）。

Nine zero.

九十更多。好的。如果你基于流行病学研究来看人们实际获得的睡眠量。但这个量化指标是我们大多数人（我也曾是其中一员）回答“多少睡眠才足够”或“理想的睡眠时长是多少”的方式。理想的睡眠时长大约在七到九小时之间。

Nine zero more. Okay. If you look at based on the epidemiological studies of how much people actually are getting. But that metric of quantity is the way that most of us, and I've been, you know, certainly party to this as well, have answered the question is what is enough sleep or what would be a good amount of sleep? And good amounts of sleep would be somewhere between seven to nine.

这是目前的推荐值。包括美国疾控中心（CDC）在内的许多健康组织都推荐成年人每晚至少睡七小时。但在我看来，这并未捕捉到睡眠真正的复杂性。正如我们本期节目讨论的，睡眠是一场极其复杂的生理芭蕾。

And that's the current recommendation. That's the recommendation by many health organizations, including here in The US, which is the CDC. They recommend or they stipulate a minimum of seven hours for the average adult. To me, however, that doesn't capture the true complexity that sleep really is. And it is, as we've now discussed in the episode, a wonderfully complex ballet of physiology.

睡眠四要素（QQRT）。就像饮食有三大营养素（脂肪、蛋白质、碳水化合物），我认为睡眠实际上有四大要素，可以通过首字母缩写QQRT来记忆。

And so I've stepped back and I'd really tried to think, to me, what are the main components that would constitute this recipe for good sleep? And I've conceptualized what I would describe as the four macros of sleep. That there are, you know, when we think of diet, we've got three macros, fat, protein, and carbohydrate. For me, actually has four macros. And you can remember this by the acronym QQRT.

QQRT分别代表：数量（Quantity）、质量（Quality）、规律性（Regularity）和时机（Timing）。请允许我详细说明——毕竟没人喜欢教条规则，人们需要的是背后的科学原理。

And it stands for Quantity, Quality, Regularity and Timing. QQRT, Quantity, Quality, Regularity and Timing. And maybe I can just go into detail because I'm telling you, you know, these are the rules for good sleep. No one responds to rules. They respond to reasons and not rules.

现在让我解释每个要素的原理。数量方面，我们已提到成年人需要7-9小时。接下来是质量：我们通过多种方式衡量睡眠质量，首要指标是连续性。

So let me explain the reasons behind each one of these. So quantity, we've already spoken about somewhere between seven to nine for the average adult. Let me move on to quality. We measure quality in a variety of different ways. The first principle quality measure of sleep is continuity.

即你的睡眠是否平稳连续而没有频繁醒来？或是被多次觉醒打断的碎片化睡眠？高度碎片化就是我们所说的低质量睡眠，即睡眠效率低下。

So meaning, was your sleep nice and continuous and you didn't wake up many times? Or was your sleep fragmented and littered with many awakenings? It was punctuated by these awakenings. If it's very highly fragmented, that's what we call poor quality of sleep. That's low efficiency of sleep.

假设你在床上躺了九小时，实际只睡了七小时。如果仅看数量指标，你会认为睡眠不错（毕竟有七小时）。但其中两小时实际是清醒状态，这属于极低质量睡眠。

So maybe you would be in bed for, let's say, nine hours and you still got seven hours of sleep. So if all you used was your quantity measure, you would say, well, you've still had good sleep. You've had seven hours. But two of those hours have been spent awake, summed total. So that is very low quality of sleep.

这就是我们所说的低效率睡眠。睡眠效率的计算很简单：总在床时间中实际睡眠时间的占比。例如在床上八小时睡六小时，效率就是75%。

And it's what we would call a low score of efficiency. So if you're looking at any of your sleep trackers, that's probably best captured by sleep efficiency. What is sleep efficiency? Sleep efficiency is simply calculated as of the total amount of time in bed, what percent of that time were you asleep? So if I was in bed for eight hours and I slept for six hours, I would have a sleep efficiency of 75%.

因为两小时（25%）处于清醒状态。85%及以上的睡眠效率通常被视为健康睡眠，理想状态应保持或略高于此标准。若效率过低，意味着清醒时间过多，需要针对性改善。这是QQRT中质量要素的首个衡量标准。

Because two out of the eight hours, 25% of that time, I was awake. And an efficiency that is 85% or above, we typically classify as healthy sleep. And we would like to see you there or perhaps a little bit higher. If you have a lower sleep efficiency score than that, it usually means that you're awake too much of the time, and we'll think about that and address that. So that's one measure of the second cue of the QQRT.

另一个质量衡量标准与我们之前讨论的深度睡眠有关，特别是脑电波的质量。深度睡眠也存在电生理质量的差异：既有波涛汹涌的强效深度睡眠，也有虽然符合深度睡眠标准但质量稍显不足的类型。

That's quality. But there's another measure that we can also use. That measure comes back to the deep sleep that we spoke about, and particularly the electrical quality of those brainwaves. So you can have deep sleep and it can be of different qualities, electrical qualities. You can have deep sleep that is immensely powerful with huge EPIC waves, or you can have deep sleep that still is classified as deep sleep, but it's a little bit more sort of anemic in its quality.

而这些睡眠追踪器无法真正测量这一点。我们必须使用电极，然后通过一个复杂的方程式分解脑电活动。这告诉我们深度睡眠阶段的活动强度大小，我们称之为电功率。所以这是我们衡量质量的另一个指标。接下来是规律性。

And you can't really measure that with these sleep trackers. We have to use electrodes and then we decompose the electrical brain activity using a fancy equation. And that tells us what was the amount of sort of strength of activity, what we call electrical power in that deep sleep regimen. So that's another measure that we use for quality. Next is regularity.

规律性。实际上我应该先回到质量这个话题。在睡眠科学中很长一段时间里，我们一直用量化作为主要的预测指标。意思是说我观察你的睡眠质量，它能预测你的学习或记忆能力吗？我观察你的睡眠时长，它能预测你的血糖调节吗？

Regularity. And actually, I should come back to quality. For a long time in sleep science, we were using quantity as our major metric for predictability. Meaning I look at your quality and does it predict your learning or your memory? I look at your quantity and does it predict your blood sugar regulation?

我观察你的睡眠时长，它能预测你的免疫健康吗？我观察你的睡眠时长，它能预测你的死亡风险吗？答案都是肯定的，时长的确能预测许多这类指标。这很好。

I look at your quantity. Does it predict your immune health? I look at your quantity and does it predict your mortality risk? And the answer has been yes, that quantity does predict many of those things. That's great.

有趣的是，如果单看时长指标的预测统计，虽然效果显著，但仍存在大量我们称之为无法解释的方差。这说明除了时长之外，睡眠中肯定还有其他因素在解释这些健康指标。而睡眠质量在过去十年间崭露头角，我认为在预测身心健康方面，它至少与时长具有同等——甚至在某些领域可能更强的预测力。这至少迫使我在自己的研究中：第一，始终以最高分辨率测量质量；第二，始终将其纳入统计模型。我们可以进行精细分析，将这两个指标相互对比，看看哪个实际上具有更大的统计权重。

What was interesting is that if you look at the statistic of the predictability of quantity alone, it was strong, it was significant, but it still left a lot of unexplained what we call variance. So it must be that there are some other things in sleep that are explaining these health metrics in addition to quantity. And quality has now come online, I think in the past ten years, as carrying as much, if not perhaps even more in certain domains of a predictive strength in determining your mental and your physical health that quantity has. And it's at least forced me in my own research to A, always be measuring quality in as high resolution as I can and always including it into a statistical model. And we can do fancy things where we put those two things, you know, pit them head to head and see which one actually holds more of the statistical weight.

但可以肯定的是，优质睡眠至少与睡眠时长同等重要。现在，这两者都不能打折扣。你不能说：好吧，他刚才是不是告诉我不用在意睡多久？但只要你——所以你不可能只睡四个小时，即使质量极高，就能安然无恙。但你也不能在床上躺九或十个小时，实际只睡七小时，而且睡眠质量很差。

But certainly, quality sleep is as important, I would say now, at least as important as the quantity of sleep. Now, you can't shortchange on either. You can't say, okay, did he just tell me that I should not worry about how long I'm sleeping? But as long as, so you can't just get four hours of sleep that is incredibly good quality and get away with it. But you also can't be in bed for nine hours or ten hours getting seven hours of sleep, but it's really bad quality of sleep.

你必须两者兼顾。这两个方面都不能打折扣。那么此时你会想，这不是已经说明问题了吗？QQ（质量与时长），为什么还需要QQRT中的R和T（规律性与时间）？规律性作为一个相关指标，我认为是在过去18个月里才受到重视的。

You have to get both. You can't shortchange either one of those. So at that point you think, well, isn't that the end of the story? The QQ, why do you need this R and T of QQRT? The regularity has come online, I would say in the past eighteen months as being a relevant metric.

你可能会说，规律性和时间听起来很像。当我提到规律性时，我指的是你上床和起床的时间。如果你保持这个一致性，那就是四个宏观要素中的第三部分。这就是规律性。我每天在同一时间上床睡觉。

When I say, you could say, well, on second, regularity and timing, they sound like the same. When I say regularity, I mean when you go to bed and when you wake up. If you keep that consistent, that is the third piece of the four macros. That's regularity. I go to bed at the same time.

我在同一时间起床。

I wake up at the same time.

允许误差多少？

Plus or minus how much?

我会说大约三十分钟的误差范围。这算是你的灵活空间。你不需要严格精确。每个人，包括我自己——我对睡眠相当严格，不是我想当什么榜样或以身作则，仅仅是因为如果你了解我所知道的关于睡眠的一切，优先保证睡眠完全是一种自私的行为。

So I would say plus or minus, you know, thirty minutes. You kind of, that's your wiggle room. You don't want to try. And everyone, you know, even I, I have a, I'm fairly puritanical about my sleep, not because I want to be some poster child and practice what I preach. It's simply that if you knew everything I did about sleep, it's an entirely selfish act to prioritize my sleep.

我不想比必须的时间更早死去，也不想带着疾病活得更久。而我所知的最伟大的健康保险政策，它普遍可用、基本免费且大多无痛，就是被称为‘一夜睡眠’的东西。所以我会每晚都把它作为礼物送给自己。

I don't want to die any sooner than I have to, and I don't want to live with disease any longer. And the greatest health insurance policy that I know of that is universally available, largely free, and mostly painless, is this thing called a night of sleep. So I'll gift it to myself every single night.

我不认为这是自私的，因为当然，当我们生病或死亡时，会给他人带来负担。是的，这可能是一种缺席的负担或存在的负担，取决于具体情况和人们的方式。请看着

I don't see it as selfish because of course, when we are ill or dead, there is a burden on others. Yeah. It can be an absence burden a presence burden, depending on what and how people Please look

我当你说

at me when you say

存在，人们但对我们有感觉，但这很有趣。现在，你说相同的起床时间，相同的入睡时间，每个时间点前后浮动三十分钟，这是指上床时间的前后三十分钟吗？还是我们谈论的是入睡，进入那个第一阶段？

presence, People but feel about us, but that's interesting. Now, you say same wake up time, same to sleep time, plus or minus thirty minutes for each of those, is that plus or minus thirty minutes getting into bed? Or are we talking about falling asleep, entering that first stage one?

这实际上是从关灯时间开始算的。所以，好吧，我一直在床上，你知道，我是在同一时间上床的，但昨晚我大约晚了一个小时才睡着。然后前天晚上，你知道，我上了床，只是关了灯。然后，你知道，两天前，我又在同一时间上床，但当时我有点在网购，并开始和一个不同时区的朋友聊天。然后两个半小时后才关灯。

It's really from the time of lights out. So, okay, I've been in bed and, you know, I got into bed at the same time, but last night I went to sleep about an hour later. And then the night before, you know, I got into bed and I just turned the lights out. And then, you know, two nights ago, I got into bed again at the same time, but then I was kinda online shopping and I started chatting with a friend in a different time zone. And then it was two and a half hours later before lights out.

这就是我们归类为不规律睡眠的情况。而这件事之所以让我觉得非常重要，是因为之前有一项很棒的研究发表，大概，我可能记错了，是在拍摄这次对话的大约五个月前。它使用了一个庞大的数据库，叫做英国生物样本库（UK Biobank），这是一个很棒的数据库。他们研究了超过6万名个体。

That is what we would classify as irregular sleep. And the reason that this has really been forced on me as important, there was a great study that came out, maybe, I'll get this wrong, from about five months from the time of filming this ago. And it was, it used a huge database. It's something called the UK Biobank, which is a wonderful database. And they looked at over 60,000 individuals.

他们观察并能够追踪这些人一夜又一夜的睡眠情况。所以他们有某种衡量这种一致性、这种规律性的指标。然后他们将这6万人分成四等分组。在他们的统计模型中，他们比较了睡眠最规律的人和最不规律的人。并追踪了他们多年。

And they looked, they were able to track the sleep from one night to the next, to the next, to the next. So they had some metric of this consistency, this regularity. And then they split those 60,000 individuals into quartiles. And in their statistical model, they looked at people who were most regular versus people who were least regular. And they tracked them over years.

他们发现，然后他们查看了这些人的死亡风险。这些人在研究期间去世的可能性有多大？如果他们去世了，他们还能分析出死亡原因。他们发现，那些处于最规律睡眠的前25%的人，相对于那些非常不规律的人，如果你睡眠规律良好，你的全因死亡风险降低了49%。在分解这个全因死亡风险时，癌症死亡率具体降低了35%，而如果你睡眠规律而非不规律，心血管死亡风险几乎降低了60%。

What they found, and then they looked at their mortality risk. How likely was it that those people would pass away during that study interval? And they were also able to map what were they dying of if they passed away. So what they found was that those people who are in the top quartile of being most regular relative to those people who are highly irregular, if you had good regular sleep, you had a forty nine percent reduced risk of mortality relative to someone who was very irregular. Of that general all cause mortality risk, when you split it apart, there was a thirty five percent decrease in cancer mortality specifically, and there was almost a sixty percent de risking of cardiovascular mortality risk if you are regular versus irregular.

然后他们做了一件非常聪明的事，因为他们同时测量了睡眠量和这些人的睡眠时间，他们做了我刚才说的事，就是把数据放入统计模型。果然，睡眠量，正如我们一次又一次证明的那样，对于预测全因死亡率非常有效，使用7到9小时这个最佳区间。我们可以谈谈当你睡得更久时会发生什么，因为这实际上非常出乎意料且很有趣，但最佳区间是7到9小时，睡眠越短，寿命越短。数据似乎表明了这一点。但他们发现，虽然这是事实，但睡眠的规律性或不规律性所带来的效应大小、预测力的大小，几乎是睡眠时长的两倍。

Then they did this brilliant thing because they were measuring both the quantity of sleep and when these individuals were sleeping, they did what I just said, which is they put them into a statistical model. Sure enough, the quantity of sleep, just as we've shown time and time again, was very predictive of all cause mortality using that sweet spot of seven to nine hours. And we can speak about what happens when you start to sleep longer because it's actually very unpredicted and it's very interesting, but sweet spot of seven to nine, the shorter your sleep, the shorter your life. That's what the data seems to suggest. But what they found was that that was true, yet regularity or irregular sleep carried almost twice the effect size, the magnitude of predictability that duration did.

我认为整个领域，我们知道规律性，我知道规律性很重要。但我不认为我们理解它有多重要，以及如果你规律，它在降低死亡风险方面的强度，或者如果你不规律，它在增加风险方面的强度，这个在QQRT方程中被称为R的指标所承载的意义。所以我开始自己更加注意这一点，甚至几乎过度重视它。最后一个方面涉及到时机。我应该说明，我们在过去四五年里，在睡眠中心的很多工作中，基本上已经使用了这种方程，即所谓的QQRT睡眠算法。

And I think the whole field, we knew that regularity, I knew that regularity was important. I don't think we understood how important and the strength of mortality de risking if you're regular or increased risk if you're irregular that this metric of R carried in the QQRT equation. So I've started to be much more mindful myself at least and almost over index that. The final aspect comes on to timing. And I should say that we've used this essentially, this kind of equation, the sleep algorithm as it were of QQRT now in a lot of my work in the past at the Sleep Center in the past four or five years.

它确实似乎是一个相当好的代理指标，能预测性地覆盖你健康的许多方面。如果你单独使用其中任何一个指标，是的，它们都有帮助，能预测一些事情。但如果你将它们作为一个整体使用，这似乎能解释大部分的变异。当然，这远非一个完美的衡量标准。你甚至可以用更细致的方式来拆分它，而我也想进行拆分。

And it does seem to be a pretty good proxy of covering predictive wise many aspects of your health, that if you use any one of these by themselves, yeah, they help. They predict things. But if you use them as a collective, that seems to be where you explain most of the variants. Now, it's not by far a perfect measure. There are even more nuanced ways that you would want to split it, and I want to split it.

但我会说，这对普通大众来说是一个相当好的代理指标。在我们的研究中，它似乎也是健康和福祉的一个相当好的代理指标。QQRT（数量、质量、规律性）的最后一个方面是时间。时间与规律性有何不同？因为规律性是关于在相同正确的时间入睡。

But I would say that this is a pretty good proxy for the general public. And it seems to be in our research, a pretty good proxy for health and wellness too. The final aspect of the QQRT, quantity, quality, regularity, comes on to timing. How is timing different to regularity? Because regularity is about getting your sleep at the same correct time.

我所说的时间指的是你的时型。所以人们可能听说过这个说法：你是晨型人、夜型人，还是介于两者之间？结果发现，这在人群中的分布大约是三分之一、三分之一，也许略有不同。

What I mean by timing is your chronotype. So people may have heard of this phrase, are you a morning type, evening type, or somewhere in between? That it turns out is, and it's about a third, third split across the population, maybe a little bit different.

根据男女性别，分布是否有不同？这里，我们大概不是在谈论儿童或青少年。那是另一回事，我们稍后会讨论。

Does it divide up any differently according to male, female? And here, presumably we're not talking about children or teenagers. That's a whole other business, and we'll talk about that.

是的。一旦你成年，因为你的睡眠时间模式在发育过程中会发生很大变化，尽管，你知道，我们都记得小时候想和大人一起熬夜。突然，我们最后记得的是，你知道，七点到了，八点到了，然后你想，太好了，我要和他们一起熬到十点或十一点。

Yeah. So once you are an adult, because that pattern of your timing of sleep does change during development very much so despite, you know, we can all remember being kids and wanting to stay up with the grownups. All of a sudden, the last thing we remember was, you know, 07:00 comes around, 08:00 comes around and you think, great, I'm going stay up until ten or eleven with them.

所以

So

很兴奋。然后第二天早上你醒来，因为你被抱到床上，因为已经熄灯了。所以撇开这个不谈，一旦你成年并建立了稳定的节奏，就会存在变异性。在睡眠科学中，我们将其分为五类，而不是三类：极端晨型、晨型和中性型。

excited. And then you wake up the next morning because you were carried to bed because it was lights out. So setting that aside, once you're an adult and you have your stable rhythm in place, there is variability. Now in sleep science, we break it down not into three categories, but five. Extreme morning type, morning type and neutral.

夜型，极端夜型。

Evening type, extreme evening type.

你能再重复一遍吗？极端晨型。极端晨型。那什么算极端晨型？所以

Could you repeat those again? So extreme morning. Extreme morning type. So what qualifies as extreme morning So

极端晨型的人可能会说，喜欢在晚上8点左右睡觉，然后他们会在早上4点、4点半左右很容易地醒来。他们精神焕发，准备好去健身房。而我是中性型，正好处在中间。

an extreme morning type would someone who would like to say, go to bed around 8PM, and then they would be, you know, waking up, and they wake up very easily around four, 04:30AM in the morning. And they're bright as a bunny. They are ready to get to the gym. And I'm a neutral. I just sit right in the middle.

所以我算是那种晚上11点到早上7点半作息的人。

So I'm kind of an eleven to 07:30 kind of guy.

好的。或许我们可以梳理一下。极端晨型人是这样的——

Okay. Maybe we could walk through this. So the extreme morning type is

他们大概晚上8点左右睡觉，早上4点或4点半就能自然醒来，而且精神很好。普通晨型人可能晚上9点半睡觉，早上5点半到6点起床。然后像我这样的中间型，我喜欢晚上11点左右睡觉，早上7点半左右醒来。我尽量让自己有8个半小时的卧床时间。最后就是夜猫子型。

today around eight- Eight and they could wake up at, let's say four, 04:30 and then they would be fine. A morning type, maybe they would like to go to bed around 09:30 and then they're waking up closer to sort of 05:30, six, then you've got a neutral like me. And I would like to go to bed probably around 11PM and wake up around sort of 07:30 ish. I try to give myself about an eight and a half hour time period in bed. And then you get to the night owls.

接着是晚间型，以及极端晚间型，这样就完整覆盖了五种类型。晚间型可能喜欢凌晨12点半睡觉，早上9点半左右醒来。而极端晚间型要到凌晨2点半甚至3点才准备睡觉，醒来时都已经是上午中了。关于你的时间类型有趣的是——顺便说一句，如果想了解自己的时间类型，有个实用建议：可以直接上网搜索'chronotype MEQ'。

So then you've got the evening type and then the extreme evening type, which finishes out the full five. The evening type, maybe they would like to go to bed like 12:31 and probably wake up around maybe nine, 09:30. And then you've got the extreme evening type and they are not ready for bed until maybe 02:30, 3AM. And they're waking up, you know, middle of the morning. So what's interesting about your chronotype, and by the way, people, you can, if you want to find out your chronotype, if you want an actionable suggestion, you can just go online and you can search for something called, just type in chronotype MEQ.

这代表'晨昏类型问卷'(Morningness Eveningness Questionnaire)。只要输入chronotype MEQ，就能找到问卷。填写需要三四分钟，回答一系列问题后，它会给你一个分数，然后将你归入不同的类型。

And that stands for the Morningness Eveningness Questionnaire, MEQ. Just type in chronotype MEQ, and you will see, you can fill it out. It takes three, four minutes, series of questions, It will give you back a score and that will then bucket you into these different flavors and sort of say, okay.

这些我都试过。没错...虽然不愿承认，但如果按我偏好，我会晚上8点半睡觉，早上4点半左右起床。不过——

I've tried all of these. And, yeah, okay. And I hate to admit it, but if I had my preference, I would go to sleep at 08:30 and wake up at 04:30 or so. Well, let

让我问你一个问题——比起做MEQ问卷，我通常只问一个简单问题：'安德鲁，现在把你单独放在荒岛上。没有需要起床处理的事，没有电力，没有责任，什么都没有。你认为你的身体会想什么时候睡觉和起床？'我特意这样问，因为如果直接问'你想'什么时候作息，你心里还是会受社会规范和那种对晨型人的畸形偏爱影响。

me ask you this question, because rather than doing the MEQ, there's a single question I normally ask and say, Okay, Andrew, I now put you on a desert island. Alone. And alone, you've got nothing to wake up for, no electricity, no responsibilities, no nothing. What time do you think your body would like to go to sleep and wake up? And I say that specifically because if I ask you what time would you like to, you're still biased in your head by all of the trappings of society and this terrible bias towards morning types.

你觉得那是否就是你天然的作息规律？

Do you think that naturally that's probably the regimen that you would do?

很好的问题。我会在日落后的90到120分钟内入睡。

Yeah, great question. I would go to sleep sometime between ninety and one hundred and twenty minutes after sundown.

嗯，好的。

Yeah. Okay.

这就是为什么我要回答，我属于极端早起型或早起型。我可以在晚上9:30左右睡觉，早上五点醒来感觉很好。或者更早八点、八点半睡，四点起床，并且真的很想起来写作。不过这不是我目前的作息。我可能会开始遵循那个作息。我人生中不同阶段都尝试过，但通常最终会默认睡得晚一些，十点、十点半，然后早上六点、六点半左右醒来。

So that's why I was going to answer, I'm either an extreme morning type or a morning type. I can go to bed around 09:30, wake up at five feeling great Okay. Or go to sleep early eight, 08:30, wake up at four, and really want to get up write Now and that's not the schedule I follow. I may start to follow that schedule. I've tried for various portions of my life, but typically I end up defaulting to go into sleep a bit later, ten, 10:30, waking up around Okay.

这还得假设我生活中没有打乱睡眠的事件，因为如果有的话，我会尽可能睡懒觉，并用各种方法尝试补偿。但假设生活和睡眠环境一切正常，那就是这样。

Six, 06:30. And that's assuming that there are no events in my life that are disrupting my sleep, because then I'm really going to sleep in if I can and a bunch of things to try and compensate. But assuming everything is cool in life and in the room that I sleep That's the spirit.

说得对。

There you go.

我会说晚上九点睡觉，早上大约4:35起床。感觉非常好。事实上，我一直觉得这有点像抗抑郁药。你知道，我不认为自己是个抑郁的人，但如果我熬到11:30、十二点，即使七点起床，我也会感到有点低落的萎靡不振。感觉不太对劲，而当我早睡早起时，我感觉真的非常非常好。

I would say going to sleep at nine and waking up at, yeah, about 04:35AM. It feels great. And in fact, I always thought of it as a bit of an antidepressant. You know, I don't consider myself somebody who's depressed, but I can get a little low level malaise if I'm staying up till 11:30, twelve, and even waking up at seven. I don't feel quite right, and when I go to bed early and wake up early, I feel really, really good.