嘉宾系列 | 马特·沃克博士：利用睡眠提升学习力、创造力与记忆力

你反复复习的次数越多，即使睡眠不足，你的表现也越好。

And the more that you kept going over it, the better you performed even when you were not getting sufficient sleep.

但后来我们做了一件有趣的事。

But then we did something interesting.

我们把他们又叫了回来，这部分数据还没发表，我应该发一下。

We then brought them back and we haven't published this data, I should do.

我们一个月后再次把他们叫回来，重新进行了测试。

We brought them back a month later and then we tested them again.

结果发现，那些睡足觉的群体在记忆和保留这些信息方面要好得多。

And what you find is that the group that slept was far better able to have retained and remember that information.

而那些睡眠较少的群体，他们的表现与第二天睡足整晚的人群更为相似。

Whereas the group that did not sleep as much, they performed much more similar to the group that got a full night of sleep the next day.

但当你一个月后再次测试他们时，几乎所有的内容都从他们的大脑中消失了。

But when you test them a month later, almost none of that material is residing in their brain anymore.

明白了。

Got it.

所以这就是临时抱佛脚效应。

So this is the cramming effect.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Right.

这一点在教授大学课程时大家都知道，或者如果你自己曾经临时突击学习过，你会发现你可以学到很多内容，但之后只是在考试中复述出来，然后就全忘了。

And one knows this from teaching university courses, or if they've crammed that you can learn a bunch of material, but then you regurgitate it for the exam and then it's gone.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这几乎就像是，这些信息根本没能从短期记忆转入长期记忆。

So it's almost like a, it just never passes from short term to long term memory, essentially.

没错。

That's correct.

好的。

Okay.

这在某种程度上，完美地描述了睡眠过程中接下来会发生什么。

And that seems to be, in some ways, that's a beautiful description of then what happens next in the sleep process.

这不仅仅是关于学习前的睡眠，你还需要在学习后睡觉，才能实现你刚才描述的那些效果。

It's not just about sleep before learning, You then have to sleep after learning to do exactly what you just described.

所以我有一门课在

So I have a class in

早上，或者我打算在第二天下午学习一些新东西。

the morning, or I'm going to learn something new the next day afternoon.

我的目标显然是要尽可能多地睡觉，并保持规律的作息。

My goal presumably should be to maximize the amount of sleep I get and to be on the same sleep schedule.

这就回到了第一集中提到的QQRT：数量、质量、规律性和时机。

So this gets back to QQRT that was presented in the first episode, quantity, quality, regularity, and timing.

人们应该参考一下那部分内容。

And people should refer to that.

顺便说一句，你的记忆力没问题。

Nothing wrong with your memory, by the way.

嗯，我不确定这一点，但QQRT公式在第一集中已经描述过了。

Well, I don't know about that, but the QQRT formula was described in the first episode.

让我们来设想一个我认为相当常见的场景。

Let's come up with a what I think is a fairly common scenario.

我喜欢在晚上八点到九点之间早睡。

So I like to go to bed early between eight and 9PM.

我最近通过与你的对话才意识到这一点。

I discovered this recently, to conversations with you.

这显然最适合我。

This is clearly what works best for me.

我一直以来直觉上觉得如此，但现在清楚地知道这确实是最有效的。

I kind of always intuitive, but I it clearly is what works best.

如果我十点睡觉，我可能希望在六点左右醒来，或者六点半。

If I go to bed at ten, I probably want to wake up sometime around, I don't know, 6AM or 06:30.

如果我超过十点半才睡，就会开始遇到问题。

And if I go to bed any later than 10:30, I start running into problems.

即使我睡足了足够的时间，第二天还是感觉状态不好。

I don't feel good the next day even if I get sufficient hours of sleep.

所以规律性和时间点非常重要，对我而言，最好把睡觉时间固定在晚上8:30到9:30之间，起床时间固定在凌晨4:30到5:30。

So this is the importance of regularity and timing, keeping things more or less locked to that 08:30 to 09:30 to bedtime for me, 04:30 to 05:30 wake up time.

这就是我的情况。

That's me.

举个理想情况的例子，我会坚持这个作息，第二天早上醒来后，去进行学习或实践我之前学过的内容。

Just by way of example, in an ideal world, therefore, I would stick to that schedule, wake up the next day and go do my learning or my performance of something that I'd learned.

其他人可能属于不同的生物钟类型，对他们来说，晚上11点睡觉、早上7:30起床才是更合适的作息。

Someone else might have the chronotype, we're going to bed at 11PM and waking up at 07:30AM is their preferred schedule.

然而，由于旅行、课程安排，或生活中的各种状况，尤其是在需要学习或完成重要任务（无论是体力还是认知类）的前一晚，睡眠往往会受到干扰——无论是时间错乱、睡眠不足，还是规律性被打乱。

However, often because of travel, because of courses, because of life circumstances, the night before something critical that we need to learn or to perform some critical task, physical or cognitive, the sleep the night before is disrupted in some way, either by virtue of timing or quantity, and then of course by extension regularity.

那么，在即将开始学习之前，我们能否在之前的几个晚上做些什么，来建立一个缓冲机制，以便在无法坚持完美作息时，仍能为最佳学习效果做好准备？

So is there anything that we can do heading into a bout of learning, meaning the nights preceding that bout of learning that kind of provide a buffer or set us up for the best possible learning scenario if we're not able to stick to our perfect schedule.

我认为可能有两个办法。

I think there may be two things.

有一些研究指出，咖啡因可能实际上能增强海马体——这一记忆编码结构——并提升其编码能力。

There's been a little bit of work that's been done to suggest that caffeine may actually enhance the hippocampus, this memory encoding structure, and boost its ability to encode.

然而，目前还没有人进行过这样的研究：先让某人睡眠不足，第二天再给他们咖啡因，然后让他们学习并测试，咖啡因能否通过其对海马体的作用，弥补本应出现的编码缺陷？

Now, what they haven't yet done is the study where you sleep deprive someone, then you give them caffeine the next day, and then you have them try to learn and ask, can caffeine, by way of its effect on the hippocampus, rescue and restore what would otherwise be an encoding deficit?

这完全有可能，我认为这是一个非常有趣的问题。

Now, that is entirely possible, I think it's a fascinating question.

能提升多少呢？

By how much?

我们还不知道。

We don't know.

但如果咖啡因没有效果，同样有可能的是，海马体在睡眠不足的情况下，对咖啡因的益处不再敏感。

But if it doesn't, it's equally likely that the hippocampus, by way of being sleep deprived, is not receptive to the benefit of caffeine under conditions of sleep deprivation.

我之前跟你们说过，在大鼠实验中，当这些大鼠被剥夺睡眠后，海马体再次变得固执，难以形成新的突触。

And I told you in the rat studies, when those rats were deprived, the hippocampus once again became stubborn in its ability to form new synapses.

也许当人处于睡眠充足状态时，海马体同样固执，难以接受咖啡因的正常益处。

And it may be that it's equally stubborn to receive the normal benefit of caffeine when you are sleep rested.

但我非常想做这项研究。

But I would love to do that study.

第二点是，如果我可以自由选择一天中学习的时间，假设你昨晚睡得很差，或者只是睡得很短，这是无法改变的。

The second is to then say, well, if I have the choice of when I'm going to be learning during the day, let's say that you've had a bad night of sleep or you just had a short night of sleep, non negotiable, couldn't do anything about it.

第二天，我必须挤出时间来学习一些信息。

And the next day I've got to cram in some information.

我会建议你考虑自己的生物节律，想想自己在一天中什么时候处于最佳状态。

I would say, think about your chronotype and think about when you are at your best operating temperature.

以你的情况为例，假设你晚上九点睡觉，凌晨四点三十五分起床，你的高峰期可能在上午十点十一分左右，那时你的生理和昼夜节律几乎达到顶峰。

So your scenario, let's say going to bed at nine, waking up at 04:35, your peak is probably going to be maybe 10:11 o'clock in the morning where your biology and your circadian rhythm is on its almost crescendo peak.

在那个时候，我们知道昼夜节律对学习有影响——这与睡眠对学习的影响是独立的——此时学习效果更好。

At that point, we know for circadian influences on learning, and this is independent of sleep influences on learning, that's where things are better.

现在，你实际上描述了我，我属于那种晚上十一点到早上七点半类型的人。

Now for me, you actually described me, which is I'm a kind of an eleven to 07:30 type person.

对我来说，我的最佳状态可能更接近中午或下午一点，那时我在体能和认知表现上都达到巅峰。

For me, it's probably going to be much closer to about midday or 1PM where I feel at my operating peak, both for physical performance and also mental performance.

所以如果你有选择权，而且睡眠不足，你无法挽回前一晚失去的睡眠，但至少要意识到，你的昼夜节律会来帮你缓解这种影响，只要你把学习时间安排在你昼夜节律的已知高峰期。

So if you've got the choice and you are under slept, there's nothing you can do about the sleep that you've lost the night before, but at least recognize that your circadian rhythm is going to come to your rescue and help offset that as long as you time your learning to that known peak of your circadian rhythm.

这样解释有帮助吗？

Does that help a little bit?

是的，这很有道理。

Yes, that makes good sense.

所以这个观点让我们回到了你之前几期节目中提到的一个概念，那就是由于腺苷分子的积累，我们会产生睡眠压力——我们清醒的时间越长，神经系统中的腺苷就越多，人就越困。

So the idea gets us back to something you described in previous episodes, which is that you have this sleep pressure due to the buildup of the molecule adenosine, which the longer we are awake, the more adenosine in our nervous system, which makes us sleepy.

但与此不同的是，还存在一种昼夜节律，大约是二十四小时的周期，对吧？

But separate from that, there's this circadian, circa dia, about twenty four hour rhythm, right?

这种节律会独立于腺苷信号，导致清醒和困倦状态发生显著变化。

That causes fairly dramatic shifts in wakefulness and sleepiness independent of the adenosine signal.

有时候这两个信号会重叠，比如在深夜，我们积累了大量的腺苷，一整天都没睡，而昼夜节律也让我们警觉性开始下降，所以两者是同步的。

Now sometimes the two signals overlap, so that late in the evening, for instance, we have a lot of adenosine, we've been up all day, and our circadian rhythm is such that our alertness is starting to diminish, so they're aligned.

而在一天的早些时候，假设一切正常，腺苷水平较低，因为我们前一晚睡得很好，同时昼夜节律正处于上升阶段，所以我们感到清醒。

And in the early part of the day, assuming everything is normal, the adenosine levels are low because we slept well the night before, and our circadian rhythm is on the upswing, so to speak, and we are alert.

所以如果我理解正确的话，目标当然是最大限度地提升睡眠的质量、数量、规律性和时机，也就是QQRT。但如果无法在任何一方面都做到完美，比如达到10分中的10分、A+级别的表现，那么只要知道通常在上午10点到中午之间自己最清醒，就应该在这个时间段接触新知识，或者如果能掌控的话，最好在这段时间参加考试。

So if I understand correctly, the goal is to, of course, maximize the quality, quantity, regularity, and timing of sleep, QQRT, but that in the absence of the ability to really anchor any one of those things to 10 out of 10, you know, A plus performance, if one knows that, okay, typically around, you know, between 10AM and noon is when I'm at my sharpest, that would be the time to be exposed to new material or ideally take an exam if one can control that sort of thing.

然后在下午，日餐后困倦期过后，还有另一个学习的机会。

And then perhaps in the afternoon, there's another opportunity after the post perandial dip.

没错。

That's right.

但在日餐后困倦期之前，通常在下午1点到4点之间，持续大约一到一个半小时。

But before the post perandial dip, sometime between one and 4PM, usually lasting about an hour to ninety minutes.

这是一个自然的能量低谷。

This is a dip, natural dip in energy.

但在这之后，又有一个学习的机会。

But then after that, there's another opportunity to learn.

当然，这时你的体内会积累大量腺苷，因为你已经醒了很久。

Sure, there'll be a lot of adenosine in one system because you've been up long time.

但昼夜节律系统此时又开始回升，直到晚上才再次下滑。

But the circadian system is on its sort of upswing again before the downswing that occurs in the evening.

是这样吗？

Is that right?

是的。

That's right.

所以可以抓住两个机会。

So can cut two opportunities.

顺便说一下，你问得真巧，如果你观察一下接近睡觉时间的昼夜节律，会发现一个奇怪的小峰值，哈佛那边的人已经发现了。

And by the way, it's strange you were to ask, if you look at the circadian rhythm right before sort of bedtime, there is this sort of strange little blip, this peak that folks back at Harvard have discovered.

你会想，为什么我的昼夜节律系统明明需要大幅下调才能让我睡好，却偏偏在睡前的傍晚时段出现一个小上升，然后又急剧下降呢？

And you think, well, why would my circadian system, which needs to really ratchet down for us to get to sleep well, why would it have this little jag upwards in the evening hours right before we need to sleep and it then drops precipitously?

对。

Right.

直到你从进化角度思考，这才说得通。

Makes no sense until you think about evolution.

因为白天觅食之后，你需要最后这一波能量冲刺，才能安全回到巢穴或家中。

Because after foraging for food during the day, what you need is this final spurt to get you home safely to your nest or to your home.

是的，做好准备。

Yeah, to batten down the hatches.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

因此，体内有一个美妙的、与生俱来的昼夜节律波动，提醒你：好吧，我知道你正要回家。

So there is this beautiful little built in circadian upswing to say, Okay, I know you're returning to home.

这可能是你面临潜在威胁的时候。

This is probably a time when there's some maybe potential threat to you.

我会迅速提升你的警觉性，让你安全回家。

I'm gonna just boost your alertness very quickly, so you travel home safely.

准备好了。

Good to go.

太好了。

Great.

现在我开始进入下降期。

And now I start my downswing.

我认为这一点对人们来说非常重要。

I think this is a really important thing for people to know about.

我对这些数据很熟悉，虽然只是大致了解，但我的理解是，很多人会感觉大约在下午6点、6点半时开始犯困，7点半、8点时更想睡觉，然后在10点半上床。

I'm familiar with the data, although just in top contour, but the idea here, as I understand it, is that many people will feel like, okay, around 6PM, 06:30, they're getting sleepy, 07:30, 8PM, and then they wanna get to bed at 10:30.

但对于他们来说，根据自己的生物钟，在晚上9点左右，他们反而

And suddenly for them based on their chronotype around 9PM, they're

变得异常清醒。

like wide awake.

第二波精力高峰。

Second wind.

没错，第二波精力高峰。

Right, the second wind.

于是他们就会想：天啊，我今晚得睡觉了。

And they're like, oh no, I need to sleep tonight.

也许他们最好早点上床，第二天早上也早点起床，但在很多情况下，这只不过是一个短暂的四十五到六十五，甚至七十分钟的警觉性提升窗口。

Now maybe it's the case that they're a they would be better off going to bed far earlier and waking up earlier the next morning, but in many cases, it's just that transient forty five to 65, you know, seventy minute window of increased alertness.

没错。

That's right.

这种昼夜节律警觉系统的轻微上升。

This kind of uptick in circadian alertness system.

是的，

It's Yeah,

这种状态也会过去的。

so this too shall pass.

而且还要为自己成功创造条件。

And then also just set yourself up for success.

我们之前稍微讨论过一些降低活跃度的方法，比如调暗灯光、设置睡觉闹钟，这些做法会慢慢让你平静下来。

And we discussed a little bit about the methods of really ratcheting things down, dimming down the lights, having it to bed alarm, these types of things will just gradually back you off.

在第二波清醒期过后，它能最大程度地促进生理上的放松，从而让一种美妙的东西——睡眠——自然到来。

And after that second wind comes, give you the greatest ability to decline physiologically, which then permits this beautiful thing called sleep to come in its place.

说到学习后的睡眠，睡眠在学习之后扮演着什么角色呢？

Well, speaking of sleep post learning, what is the role of sleep that follows a bout of learning?

在这里，我们再次将学习定义为接触你试图编码的新信息，无论是认知信息、运动信息，还是两者的结合。

And here again, we want to define learning as the exposure to novel information that one is trying to encode, either cognitive information, motor information, or a combination of the two.

我这样说是因为学习，也就是神经可塑性，包含许多不同的阶段。

And I say that because learning AKA neuroplasticity has many different stages.

这是一个过程，而不是一个事件。

It's a process, not an event.

假设当天早些时候，我上了一节舞蹈课。

But so let's say that earlier in the day, I took a dance class.

天知道我有多需要一节这样的课。

Lord knows I need one.

你和我都需要。

You and I both.

或者上一节音乐课，或者接触了一些有趣的信息。

Or a musical lesson, or was exposed to some interesting information.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

也许是在播客里。

Maybe on a podcast.

我当时在努力参与并专注这些信息。

And I was, you know, trying to engage in that information and pay attention.

然后那天晚上，我打算睡觉，或者在学习之后小憩一会儿。

And then that night, I plan to sleep, or perhaps one could take a nap after this bout of learning.

睡眠必须在学习事件之后多久发生，才能最大限度地提升学习效果呢？

How close to the learning episode, about, as I'm calling it, does the sleep have to arrive in order for sleep to maximize the amount of learning that occurs?

这是个非常好的问题，如果我在学习信息时，正在听这个奇怪的英国绅士讲话，会发生什么？

It's a very good question, which is, what would happen if I were to be learning information and I'm listening to this odd British gentleman?

那我是不是应该立刻上床睡觉，以最大化信息的保留？

Should I then immediately dive into bed so that I maximize the retention of that information?

答案是：不用担心。

And the answer is no, don't worry.

我会回头解释为什么不必担心。

And I'll come back to why not to worry.

但说到你的问题，正如我们所讨论的，学习不仅需要睡眠，而且在学习之后的睡眠也具有独特且同样必要的作用，更准确地说，是因果上必需的。

But to your point, not only do you need sleep for learning as we've been discussing, but there is something unique and equally necessary of, and causally necessary, I should say, for sleep after learning.

但它所起的作用是不同的。

But it does something different.

学习前的睡眠能让你的大脑为建立新的记忆痕迹做好准备。

Sleep before learning gets your brain ready to lay down those new memory traces.

在你将这些记忆印入大脑后，学习后的睡眠会将这些刚刚形成的新记忆加以巩固。

After you've imprinted them into the brain, sleep after learning then takes those freshly minted memories and then it strengthens them.

本质上，睡眠就像是按下保存按钮，确保你不会忘记这些新记忆。

Essentially, it's almost like sleep will hit the save button on those new memories so that you don't forget.

换句话说，睡眠是在你的大脑中为这些信息做未来保护，防止你遗忘。

So in other words, sleep is future proofing that information within your brain so that you don't forget.

然后问题是，我们已经能够做到这一点，而且我们和许多其他研究者都重复验证了这一点。

And then the question, and we've been able to, and we and many others have replicated this.

事实上，这并不是什么新发现。

In fact, it's nothing new.

如果你查阅有关学习后睡眠的文献，据我们所知，最早可以追溯到1929年。

If you look at the literature on this sleep after learning gig, it goes back as best we can tell to 1929.

虽然我稍后会对此提出不同看法，但两位研究者詹金斯和达伦巴赫进行了一项开创性研究。

Although I'll argue with that in a second, but two researchers, Jenkins and Dallenbach, did a landmark study.

他们让参与者学习大量无意义音节，并反复多次地学习。

They had participants learn a whole bunch of nonsense syllables and they had them learn them over and over and over again.

随着时间推移，他们的表现逐渐提升。

And gradually they got better.

然后，他们在八小时的时间段内对他们进行测试。

And then they started to test them across an eight hour period.

他们在两小时后、四小时后、六小时后和八小时后分别进行了测试。

They tested them two hours later, four hours later, six hours later, and eight hours later.

唯一的区别在于，其中一次测试（两小时、四小时、六小时或八小时后）是在清醒状态下进行的。

The only difference is that in one of those testing sessions, that two hours, four hours, six hours, eight hours was across a waking day.

在另一组中，他们在睡觉前学习这些信息，几乎达到完美，就像清醒组一样。

In the other, they had them learn that information to near perfection before sleep, just as they did in the waking group.

但现在他们在两小时后叫醒他们进行测试，四小时后测试，六小时后测试。

But now they woke them up after two hours and tested them, after four hours and tested them, after six hours.

然后，当他们在早晨醒来时，也就是八小时后再次测试。

And then again, when they woke up in the morning, eight hours later.

他们发现，在学习后保持清醒的那些人中，几乎发生了彻底的遗忘。

And what they found is that in those people who stayed awake after learning, there was essentially just catastrophic forgetting.

两小时、四小时、六小时、八小时后，信息量急剧下降。

The amount of information two hours, four hours, six hours, eight hours later, just declined dramatically.

但当他们在相同个体中重复这一实验，学习程度相同的情况下，两小时、四小时后，记忆已经开始衰退。

But when they repeated that in the same individuals after learning things to the same degree, two hours, four hours later, memory was starting to decline.

但在睡了大约两个半小时到三小时后，睡眠突然固定了这些记忆，就像动物被封存在琥珀中成为化石一样。

But after about two and a half, three hours of being asleep, all of a sudden, sleep had fixated those memories, almost like an animal that's been trapped in amber and set in amber like a fossil.

此后，这些记忆就不再继续衰退，你能够长期保留它们。

And then those memories just would not decay any further and you retain them.

这项研究令人震惊的是，它已经被反复验证了多次。

What was stunning about that study is it has been replicated time and time again.

这并不是令人惊讶的部分。

That's not the surprising part.

令人惊讶的是，在这项研究中，他们测试了大量受试者。

The surprising part is that in that study, they tested a vast number of subjects.

事实上，总共只有两名参与者。

In fact, a sum total of two participants.

但令人震惊的是，这一发现已被反复验证了多次。

But what's stunning is that that finding has gone and been replicated time and time again.

因此，这向我们表明，睡眠具有一种特殊的作用，几乎就像把东西凝固在混凝土中一样。

So that demonstrated to us that there's something special about sleep that is concretizing, almost literally like taking things and setting it in concrete.

于是，问题又来了：从机制上讲，这是如何实现的？

And then the question became, again, mechanistically, how?

它是怎么做到的？

How is it?

理解这一机制很重要，因为它对疾病和医学有深远影响。

And it's important to understand mechanism because it has ramifications for diseases and medicine.

睡眠是如何实现这种奇妙的记忆保存的呢？

How is sleep doing this fantastic saving of memories?

我们现在至少发现了两种并不相互排斥的机制。

And we now have at least two non mutually exclusive mechanisms.

换句话说，这两种机制似乎都会发生。

So in other words, both seem to occur.

第一种被称为记忆转移。

The first is what we call memory translocation.

睡眠，特别是我们针对事实性记忆所发现的机制。

Sleep and particularly what we found for fact based memories.

我应该指出，学习后睡眠的故事分为两个部分，或者说包含两种不同的叙事。

And I should note, the way, that the story of sleep after learning is a two part or it runs in two different narratives.

一种是学习后睡眠对事实性记忆的作用，也就是我们所说的陈述性记忆。

One is sleep after learning for fact based memory, what we describe as declarative memory.

你之前做了一个关于工作记忆的精彩节目。

And you've done a fantastic previous episode on working memory.

你详细介绍了各种不同类型的记忆。

You describe all of these different types of memory.

所以，其中一个故事线是学习后睡眠对事实性记忆的作用。

So one story line has been sleep after learning for fact based memory.

但另一个同样有趣的故事线是睡眠对非陈述性或程序性技能记忆的作用。

But the other, which is equally interesting, is sleep for nondeclarative or procedural skill memory.

换句话说，就是我们所说的运动记忆。

In other words, what we think of as motor memory.

但我稍后再回到运动记忆的话题。

But I'll come back to motor memory in a second.

我们随后发现，对于这种睡眠与教科书式记忆的关系，存在两种机制。

What we then found for this sleep and textbook like memory is that there are two mechanisms.

第一种是记忆转移。

The first translocation.

而我们发现，对于基于事实的记忆，关键在于深度非快速眼动睡眠。

And here what we found is that it's deep non REM sleep for fact based memories.

正是我们第一集中提到的那些大而缓慢、强大的脑波，加上叠加在其上的睡眠纺锤波，就像冲浪者乘在巨浪之上。

And it's those big, slow, powerful brain waves that we spoke about in the first episode combined with those sleep spindles that ride on top of them, almost like a surfer on a huge amplitude wave.

正是这两种脑波的结合，起到了文件传输机制的作用。

And it's the combination of those two brain waves that acts like a file transfer mechanism.

它将记忆从短期的、易受损的储存库——海马体，转移到更持久的长期储存地——大脑皮层，从而保护并巩固这些记忆。

And it moves and shifts memories from a short term vulnerable reservoir, the hippocampus, to the more permanent long term storage site, the cortex in the brain, and therefore protecting them and making them safe.

因此，第一种机制就是记忆在大脑中不同储存区域之间，从短期向长期的转移。

So that's one mechanism is that the shifting of memories around the brain and through different storage sites from short term to long term.

第二种机制，我认为可能更加引人入胜。

The second, I think, perhaps even more fascinating.

这被称为记忆重放。

It's called memory replay.

这一现象早在20世纪90年代就被发现了。

And this was discovered back in probably 1990s.

亚利桑那大学的布鲁斯·麦克诺顿与当时年轻的马特·威尔逊合作，我不是马特·沃克，他是现在麻省理工学院的马特·威尔逊。

Bruce McNaughton at the University of Arizona, working with a young Matt Wilson, who not, I'm Matt Walker, he's Matt Wilson at MIT now.

他们研究的是大鼠如何学习迷宫。

They were looking at rats and they were looking at how rats learn a maze.

他们在大鼠的海马体——我们之前讨论过的这些与记忆相关的脑区——植入了电极。

And they had these electrodes in these hippocampal brain regions, these memory related regions that we've been discussing.

他们监听了大鼠在迷宫中奔跑时，海马体中这些记忆细胞的个体放电模式。

And they were listening to the individual firing patterns of those memory cells in the hippocampus as they were running around the maze.

果然，当大鼠在迷宫中奔跑时，从统计上看，会逐渐形成一种看似学习特征的模式。

And sure enough, as they ran around the maze, statistically, you would build up what looked like the signature pattern of learning.

想象一下，这些神经元各自都有独特的放电频率。

So think about those neurons that they each had a special tone to them.

当大鼠在迷宫中奔跑时，你能听到学习发生的独特声音。

And as the rat is running around the maze, you can hear the signature of learning.

我只是反复播放了这个声音。

I just meant it over and over again.

但接着他们做了一件聪明的事。

But then they did something clever.

当大鼠在学习后入睡时，他们继续监听。

When the rats went to sleep after learning, they kept listening.

他们听到了什么？

What did they hear?

他们听到的不是噪音。

They didn't just hear noise.

他们听到了同样的记忆模式被重放。

They heard that same memory signature replayed.

然而，重放的速度并不相同。

However, it wasn't replayed at the same speed.

重放速度加快了大约10到20倍。

It was replayed somewhere between 10 to 20 times faster.

所以现在，你听到的不再是反复一遍又一遍地播放。

So now all of a sudden, instead of hearing, heard, just going over and over again.

我们学到的是，这种记忆重放对于这类信息至关重要。

And what we've learned is that this replay of memories for that type of information.

对于大鼠来说，这本质上是它们的空间导航，也就是它们的事实性记忆。

Now, for rats, that's their version essentially of spatial navigation is their version of fact based memory.

我就不展开细说了，但是。

I won't go into detail, but.

是的。

Yeah.

因为探索新环境对所有物种都尤为重要，尤其是啮齿类动物，它们需要知道食物储藏在哪里、逃生路线在哪里，诸如此类的事情。

Because navigating novel environments is especially important for all species, but rodents to know where they cached food, where escapes are, and things of that sort.

对。

Yeah.

或许相比人类，它们对位置记忆的依赖更甚。

Perhaps even more so than us humans, that locational memory is necessary.

而如今，有了谷歌地图、优步这类工具。

And nowadays there's Google Maps and Uber and things of that sort.

但在过去，我记得伦敦的出租车司机被认为是记忆领域的世界重量级冠军。

But in the the old days, as it were, I recall the the London taxi drivers were considered the, you know, the world heavyweight champions of of memory.

当时有一些不错的脑成像研究显示了他们的海马体，确实他们对伦敦城市的空间记忆非常出色。

And there were some decent brain imaging studies of their hippocampi, and indeed they have amazing spatial memory of the city of London.

不过现在这种情况可能已经改变了，因为有了谷歌地图。

Now that's probably changed because of Google Maps.

当你有外部工具时，就不需要依赖内部记忆存储了——

There's no need to rely on internal memory stores when you have-

不，实际上现在你虽然可以用网约车应用开车，但对于伦敦的出租车司机来说，他们仍然必须通过一项近乎考验的训练，叫做‘知识’。

No, you still actually, there's still a, now you can drive, you know, these rideshare apps, but for London taxi drivers, they still have to go through, in some ways it's almost like a hazing, it's called The Knowledge.

如果你去伦敦旅游，你会看到一些奇怪的人骑着轻便摩托车，面前放着一张巨大的地图。

And if you are visiting London, you will see these strange guys who are going around on mopeds and they just have this huge kind of map in front of them.

他们正在练习‘知识’，也就是极其细致地学习伦敦的整个道路网络。

And they are doing the knowledge, which is that they are learning exquisitely the entire roadmap of London.

那些研究发现，出租车司机的海马体——这个与事实记忆和空间记忆相关的脑结构——比匹配的对照组显著更大。

And what they found in those studies was that the size of the hippocampus, this memory structure related to fact based memories and also spatial memories, was significantly larger in cab drivers than it was in matched controls.

你可能会说，这其实是一个自我选择的过程，那些本来就拥有较大海马体的人，自然更容易掌握‘伦敦知识’并通过考核。

Now you could say, well, this is a self selecting process that people who already have large hippocampi, as we would say, they're just going to be the people who can do the knowledge well and pass, as it were.

但他们还发现，你从事‘伦敦知识’训练并成为出租车司机的时间越长，你的海马体就变得越大。

But what they also found was that correlation, the longer that you've been doing the knowledge and being a taxi driver, the bigger and bigger your hippocampus.

所以这跟投入的时间直接相关。

So it's time on task.

回到大鼠和空间学习的问题上，这几乎就像睡眠在学习后，把记忆痕迹像刻在玻璃表面一样固化下来。

So coming back to the rats and this spatial learning, it's almost as though sleep after learning is taking that memory trace and it's like etching into a glass surface.

你一遍又一遍地重演那个记忆回路，从而不断强化这个记忆通路。

You just go over that memory circuit over and over again and you're strengthening that memory circuit.

然而，还有一个令人着迷的点：我刚才说，所有这些记忆重放其实发生在非睡眠状态下。

What was also fascinating, however, I'm telling you that it's during non sleep that you do all of this memory replay.

而我们确实发现，对于教科书式的记忆而言，关键在于深度非快速眼动睡眠。

And certainly what we found is that for textbook memory, it's deep non REM sleep.

这才是睡眠中最重要的阶段。

That's the important stage of sleep.

但马特·威尔逊在麻省理工学院发表了一项有趣的研究，探讨了快速眼动睡眠。

But Matt Wilson published at MIT an interesting study looking at REM sleep.

在快速眼动睡眠中，记忆痕迹会发生什么变化？

What happens to the memory trace in REM sleep?

而快速眼动睡眠，我们知道它与做梦有关，在这种状态下，记忆回放并没有减慢到正常清醒时的速度。

And REM sleep, which we know is associated with dreaming, that the memory replay didn't slow back down to normal waking speed.

它甚至进一步减慢到清醒时速度的0.5倍。

It slowed down even further to 0.5 times relative to waking speed.

所以，清醒时的速度与做梦时——我应该说是在快速眼动睡眠中的速度相比，由于我们并不确定大鼠是否会做梦，但在快速眼动睡眠中，时间几乎减慢了50%。

So the waking speed versus the dreaming speed in dreaming, sort of in REM sleep, I should say, because we don't know if rats dream or not, but in REM sleep, things had slowed down by essentially 50%.

这让我们回到了之前一集中我们关于时间的讨论。

And this comes back to our conversation in a previous episode that we had about time.

你和我曾讨论过一种奇怪的现象：当你被闹钟吵醒时，你正处在梦中，而你有一个持续五分钟的贪睡按钮。

And you and I were discussing how there's this strange phenomenon where you are woken up by your alarm and you're in a dream, and you have a snooze button that lasts five minutes.

你按下贪睡按钮，重新入睡，却感觉好像已经做了十分钟、十五分钟的梦，但现实中只过了五分钟，时间仿佛变慢了，发生了延展。

You hit the snooze button, you go back to sleep and you feel as though you've been dreaming for, I don't know, ten minutes, fifteen minutes, but it's been five minutes in the real world, but time has slowed down, time has dilated.

这简直就像一个手风琴被拉长了一样。

It's almost like a concertina that stretched out.

突然间，我们发现——或者更准确地说，是马特·威尔逊发现的，因为我们不做动物研究——这种重放速度减慢了50%。

And all of a sudden we were finding in, or Matt Wilson, because we don't do animal research, finding that this replay was slowed down by 50%.

所以我一直想知道，是否存在神经层面的证据，能解释为什么梦境看似包含了更多时间，尽管在现实世界中只过了很短的一段时间。

So I always wonder whether or not there is neuronal evidence that helps us explain why dreams seem to pack more time despite being in real world time, a shorter amount.

这简直太迷人了。

Absolutely fascinating.

是的。

Yeah.

我不得不想象，大鼠会做梦，狗会做梦，其他动物也会做梦。

I have to imagine that rats dream and dogs dream and other animals dream.

我的意思是，它们为什么不呢？

I mean, why wouldn't they?

要知道，人类REM睡眠的所有特征在这些动物身上也都存在，反之亦然。

You know, if all the components of REM sleep that are expressed in humans appear in these animals and vice versa.

想象一下，这几乎是必然的。

Imagine it almost has to be the case.

确实如此，我认为还有一些有趣的支持性证据可以论证。

It does, and I think there is some interesting supportive evidence that you can argue.

有一种睡眠障碍，我们首先在人类中了解，叫做快速眼动睡眠行为障碍。

There is a sleep disorder that we understood in humans first, called rapid eye movement disorder or REM sleep behavioral disorder.

在第一集中，我们提到快速眼动睡眠的一个迷人特征——也就是我们主要做梦的时候——是你的大脑，特别是脑干，会麻痹你的身体，让你的大脑能安全地做梦。

And in the first episode, we said that one of the fascinating features of REM sleep, which is when we principally dream, is that your brain and specifically your brainstem paralyzes your body so that your mind can dream safely.

所以你被禁锢在这种运动麻痹状态中，这是完全合理的。

So you're shut down into this motor paralysis incarceration, rightly so.

但随着年龄增长，这种情况似乎在男性中比女性中更常见，但两者都可能发生。

But what also happens is that as we get older, and it seems to be particularly more so in men than in women, but it can be both.

一旦我们过了五十岁，这种机制开始退化的可能性就更高，你可能会开始在梦中做出动作。

Once we get past our fifties, there's a higher likelihood that that mechanism starts to degrade And you can start to act out your dreams.

但这不是梦游或说梦话。

Now, this is not sleepwalking or sleep talking.

这实际上来自于深度非快速眼动睡眠。

That actually comes from deep non REM sleep.

在那里，会发生某种触发，一种觉醒，要么是大脑的反应，几乎像是一种应激反应，让大脑醒来，而你正处于深度睡眠阶段，正试图被强行拉回清醒状态，有点像从地下室直接上到顶层公寓。

And there, what happens is that there is a trigger, an awakening, either a brain response, almost like a stress response that wakes the brain up and you're in the deeper stages of sleep and you are trying to get forced back up to wakefulness, sort of back to that analogy of going from the basement to the penthouse.

但结果你只是被困在了一种混合的意识状态中。

And instead you just get locked into this mixed state of consciousness sort of.

因此，你会开始执行一些非常机械、基础的行为。

And as a consequence, you start to enact very rote basic behaviors.

你会走到冰箱前，打开门，关上门，拿起一个杯子，放到嘴边，再放回去。

You'll go over to the refrigerator, open the door, close the door, pick up a glass, put it to your mouth, put it back down.

如果你叫醒一个人（除非有危险，否则不建议这么做），并问他们几分钟前脑子里在想什么，他们会说：什么都没想。

And if you wake someone up, which you shouldn't necessarily do unless there's harm, and ask them what was going through your mind just a few minutes ago, they will say nothing.

原因是，这并不是来自做梦的睡眠，而是来自深度非快速眼动睡眠。

And the reason is because it wasn't coming from dream sleep, was from deep non REM sleep.

我明白了。

I see.

然而，有一种非常不同的状况，人们有时会将其误认为是同一种情况，那就是REM睡眠行为障碍。

However, there is a very different condition that sometimes people will mix up as the very same thing, which is REM sleep behavioral disorder.

在这种情况下，你会把梦中的行为表现出来。

And there, you're acting out your dreams.

这可能会非常暴力。

It can be quite violent.

有些人会对伴侣实施暴力行为，然后醒来后感到极度痛苦。

Some people have enacted violence on their partner and woken up and been absolutely devastated.

但我提出这一点，是因为人类并不是唯一会患上REM睡眠行为障碍的物种。

I bring this up, however, because human beings are not the only species that suffers from REM sleep behavioral disorder.

狗也会患上这种病。

Dogs suffer from this as well.

当你看到并理解它时，也就是说，当你在头上贴上电极时，情况就非常清楚了。

And when you see it and you can understand it, I mean, it's very clear, you have electrodes on the head.

它们进入REM睡眠状态后，突然从麻痹中醒来，开始表现出非常像清醒状态的行为。

They go into this REM sleep state and all of a sudden they come out of the paralysis and they start enacting what very much looks like a behavior of wakefulness.

这相当复杂。

It's quite complex.

在那一刻，你看着它，会说：好吧，对不起，但这看起来非常像做梦。

And at that point, you look at that and you say, Okay, I'm sorry, but that looks very much like dreaming.

当然，我们不能问狗：你脑子里在想什么？

Now we can't, of course, ask dogs a question, What was going through your mind?

你可以问它们。

You can ask them.

它们并不信服。

They're not convinced.

但是的，

But yeah,

你可以问它们，但结果只是给个眼神，意思是：给我点吃的吧。

you can ask them, but it turns out that the response is less than, it's just a look to say, give me a treat.

但你知道，在科学中，有时候如果它看起来像鸭子，叫起来像鸭子，走起来也像鸭子，

But you know, in science sometimes, if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, walks like a duck,

也许它就是一只鸭子。

maybe it's a duck.

关于这种现象，我以前也经历过，就是在睡眠中，大概是快速眼动睡眠阶段，身体完全瘫痪，但突然醒了过来，发现自己仍然无法动弹，却已经不是在睡觉了。

What about this phenomenon, which I've experienced before of being asleep, presumably in rapid eye movement sleep and being completely paralyzed, but then waking up, and I'm still in paralysis, but I'm not asleep.

这发生在很久以前，大概是十年级的时候，那时候我大概是15岁。

And this was a long time ago, probably the tenth grade, which for me I was what, 15 years old.

我现在48岁了。

I'm 48 now.

有一次参加派对，我在沙发上睡着了。

And was at a party that I fell asleep on the couch.

天啊，我不相信未成年人喝酒，但也许我当时确实喝醉了。

And I, goodness, I don't believe in underage drinking, but there's a possibility that I might've been inebriated.

有可能。

I was There's a possibility.

我总是积极劝阻年轻人喝酒，也劝很多成年人别喝酒。

Parents that, you know, I I just I actively dissuade young people from drinking, and many older people from drinking.

但我确实，我开始喝酒的时候太年轻了。

But I yeah, I started drinking far too young.

但我记得前一天晚上我喝酒了。

And but I remember I drank the night before.

前一天晚上我喝醉了。

I got drunk the night before.

再次强调，我并不是在提倡或为此感到自豪。

Again, something I'm I'm not suggesting or proud of.

我醒了过来，完全清醒了。

I woke up and I was wide awake.

天啊，我记得太清楚了。

Gosh, I remember this so well.

我动弹不得。

And I was paralyzed.

我完全无法移动。

I could not move.

这太可怕了。

And it was terrifying.

然后突然间，我猛地醒了过来，心想：天哪。

And then all of a sudden, I could jolt myself awake, and I was like, Oh my goodness.

这一定是睡眠麻痹状态侵入了清醒状态。

And it must have been an invasion of that atonia, that sleep induced paralysis, into the waking state.

所以我能解释这一点，而你所提到的这个

So I can explain this, and you have the This

这正是我们看到这种情况的完美典型例子。

is the perfect prototypical situation when we see this.

你向我描述的这种现象，许多听众都经历过，叫做REM睡眠麻痹。

What you're describing to me is something that many people listening will have experienced called REM sleep paralysis.

这并不一定意味着有问题，或者是你需要担心的某种状况。

And it's not necessarily a problem or a sign of a condition that you need to be worried about.

不过，如果这种情况频繁发生，我们就可以考虑一下。

Although if it's happening frequently, we can think about that.

当我们从REM睡眠中醒来时，通常会发生什么？正如我们在第一集中提到的，REM睡眠主导着夜晚的后半段，尤其是最后四分之一的时间。

What normally happens when we wake up out of REM sleep and REM sleep, as we spoke about in the first episode, dominates the second half of the night and particularly the last quarter of the night.

当你从REM睡眠中醒来时，你可能会醒来，因为另一种你所处的状态是第二阶段的浅度非REM睡眠，所以你有大约50%的可能性会醒来。

As you're coming out of REM sleep and waking up out of REM sleep, which, you know, you've got a 50% chance perhaps because the other state that you're in is stage two light non REM.

当你从REM睡眠中醒来时，你会逐渐恢复对外部世界的意识。

As you're coming out of REM sleep, you're regaining consciousness to the external world.

通常，这一过程会与意识恢复完美同步，甚至稍早一些，你的大脑会意识到这一点，并解除你的麻痹状态。

And then normally in lockstep with that perfect lockstep, if not a little before, your brain is realizing this and it's releasing you from the paralysis.

我们所有人醒来时都不会去想这件事。

And we all wake up and we don't even think about it.

我只是醒来，然后翻身。

I just wake up and I lean over.

我关掉闹钟，然后下床。

I turn off, you know, the alarm and I get out of bed.

一切都很正常。

Everything's fine.

然而，偶尔会出现醒来并重新获得意识的情况。

Every now and again, however, the waking up and consciousness reengaging occurs.

但大脑并未让你从REM睡眠的麻痹状态中解脱出来。

However, the brain does not release you from the REM sleep paralysis.

因此，这时几乎就像一种‘闭锁综合征’。

So at that point, it's almost like a locked in body phenomenon.

这非常可怕，因为你开始意识到周围的环境，却无法做出任何自主运动。

And it's very frightening because you begin to be aware of your surroundings, but you cannot make any voluntary movements.

因为我之前说过，随意骨骼肌系统因肌张力缺失而受到抑制。

Because I told you that the voluntary skeletal muscle system is impaired by the atonia, the absence of muscle.

你仍然是无意识地在呼吸，以及其他生理功能仍在进行。

You're involuntary, you're still breathing and all that.

但你的眼睑实际上属于随意肌系统的一部分。

But your eyelids turn out to be part of your voluntary muscle set.

所以你无法抬起眼睑。

So you can't lift up your eyelids.

然后，通常会发生的是，这伴随着一种强烈的侵入者感觉，似乎就是这样。

And then normally what happens is that it's associated with a strong sense of often an intruder, it seems to be.

如果你独自在家躺在床上经历这种情况的话。

If you're doing it sort of in bed by yourself at home.

不过，你的情况稍微有些不同。

Now your context was a little different.

事实上，当你查看那些关于睡眠麻痹的描述——你无法醒来、无法呼喊、无法移动，并且感到房间里有另一个存在或生物时——这足以解释大多数，如果不是全部的话，外星人绑架故事。

And it turns out that if you look at these descriptions of sleep paralysis where you can't wake up, you can't shout out, you can't move, you have this sense of another presence or another being in the room, it adequately explains most, if not all, abduction stories.

因为上一次你看到新闻报道或在新闻里听到有人说：‘今天很明显，威斯康星州的吉米在白天被外星人绑架了，所有人都亲眼目睹了’，是什么时候？

Because when was the last time you saw a news article or on the news that someone said, okay, today it was very clear that Jimmy in Wisconsin in the middle of the day was abducted by aliens and everyone saw it.

你知道，你正坐在会议桌旁，突然间，发生了什么？

You know, you're at the meeting table and whoosh, what happened?

吉米就被外星人瞬间带走了。

That was Jimmy just got whisked off by alien.

事情并不是这样的。

It doesn't happen that way.

通常你晚上躺在床上。

It's normally that you're in bed at night.

那是清晨，就在你即将醒来之前。

It's the early morning hours just before you're waking up.

那些外星人进入了房间。

These aliens came into the room.

他们给你注射了什么东西。

They injected something into you.

他们让你动弹不得。

They paralyzed you.

你喊不出声。

You couldn't shout.

你无法移动。

You couldn't move.

这其实就是REM睡眠麻痹。

It simply REM sleep paralysis.

那么，我们能看到这一点吗？

Now, do we see that?

有些方法可以，有些不行，因为这些并不是我们建议的程序。

There are ways, and not ways, because these are not protocols that we advise.

在某些情况下，这种情况发生的概率会增加。

There are circumstances where the probability of that increases.

我也经历过这种情况。

And I've experienced this too.

当你睡眠不足或压力极大时，醒来时经历REM睡眠麻痹事件的可能性会增加。

When you are sleep deprived or you are highly stressed, the likelihood that you will experience these REM sleep paralysis events upon awakening is increased.

当我还是一个年轻博士生、研究睡眠的时候，这种情况就发生过。

And for me, it was happening when I was a young PhD student and I was studying sleep.

然后我会整晚不睡，因为我要监控病人并观察他们的睡眠。

And then I would be awake all night because I'd be monitoring the patients and looking at their sleep.

睡眠研究的讽刺之处。

The irony of sleep studies.

没错。

Exactly.

你必须剥夺自己正在研究的东西。

That you have to deprive yourself of the very thing that you are trying to study.

顺便说一下，这让你对实验有了非凡的洞察力——虽然我不会建议别人这么做，等我们谈到创造力时，我会解释为什么这不明智。但当时我们做这些研究时，我会回家后小睡一会儿，可能只睡两个半小时。

Which by the way, gives you some amazing insights for experiments Not that I've had as a that I would advise that as the way, and we'll come on to why that's not wise when we speak about creativity, but we were doing these studies and then I would go home and then I would take a short period of sleep, maybe just two and a half hours of sleep.

然后我会醒来。

And then I would wake up.

我其实不想醒，因为我正准备进入深度睡眠，但我还是强迫自己保持清醒一整天，并努力在合理的时间上床睡觉。

I didn't want to because I was ready to go deep into sleep, but I would wake up and then I would force myself to be awake throughout the day and try to get to bed at a reasonable time.

因为如果我一整天都睡觉，会发生什么？

Because if I slept all day, what's gonna happen?

我接下来一整夜都会醒着，生物钟就彻底乱了。

I'm just gonna be awake all the next night and I'm gonna be out of my rhythm.

但有趣的是，当我醒来时，通常已经是早上十点或十一点了。

But what's interesting is that when I would wake up then, I would be waking up maybe at 10AM in the morning, eleven.

在那个时候，如果你和我这样的人一起睡觉，你就处于一种极度渴望REM睡眠的状态，尤其是在清晨时段，你的大脑会大量渴望REM睡眠这一阶段。

And at that point, if you're sleeping with someone like my face, you are in a very REM sleep desiring state, that it's in those last morning hours and into the early morning hours when your brain wants to devour off the menu of sleep stages, this thing called REM in vast quantities.

所以，第一点，我当时是睡眠不足的。

So I was sleep deprived, point number one.

第二点，我进入了REM睡眠非常丰富的阶段，换句话说，瘫痪的可能性更高。

Second, I was going into a very REM sleep rich phase, in other words, higher likelihood of paralysis.

这一点让我意识到了。

And that occurred to me.

你的描述也非常典型。

Your description is also prototypical.

你前一天晚上喝了酒，去参加了派对。

You've been drinking the night before, went out to the party.

我们在之前的某一集中提到过，酒精的一个问题是，它非常有效地抑制你的REM睡眠。

We spoke about in one of our previous episodes that one of the problems with alcohol is that it's very good at blocking your REM sleep.

所以你前一天晚上完全没有经历REM睡眠。

So you'd been absent of REM sleep the prior night.

你积累了一笔我们称之为REM睡眠债务的东西。

You built up what we call a REM sleep debt.

当你睡觉时，你的大脑突然更渴望REM睡眠，因为至少你获得了一些睡眠，而那时你主要进入的是深度睡眠。

And when you slept, all of a sudden, your brain wanted more, because it at least got some sleep and there you're going to get mostly your deep sleep.

在你的睡眠账户余额中，非REM深度睡眠的债务并不算大，但你在REM睡眠方面却严重欠债。

The debt on the sheets of your balance account for sleep was not so great for deep non REM, but you were very much in debt with REM.

所以，当你一倒在沙发上睡着时，唰的一下，你很可能直接进入了REM睡眠。

So what happened as soon as you conked out on the couch, whoosh, you were probably straight into REM sleep.

当你醒来时，意识与身体麻痹的解除之间出现了时间上的不匹配。

And then when you woke up, you had this mismatch in timing between consciousness and the release of paralysis.

你经历了什么？

What did you experience?

REM睡眠麻痹。

REM sleep paralysis.

太棒了。

Love it.

我的意思是，讨厌它。

I mean, hate it.

是的。

Yes.

我并不享受那种感觉，但我很喜欢你的描述。

I did not enjoy it, but I love your description.

因为这非常清楚地说明了发生的事情。

It's because it makes so very clear what happened.

对于有过这种经历的人来说，这可能从轻微紧张到恐怖不等。

And for those that have had the experience, it can be mildly stressful to terrifying.

所以谢谢你提供了这种以知识为基础的疗法，让人们不至于对此太过焦虑。

So thank you for providing the therapy that is knowledge and so that people don't stress it too much.

但我们仍然劝阻人们在睡觉前饮酒。

But we still dissuade people from consuming alcohol prior to sleep.

对。

Correct.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商InsideTracker。

I want to take a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, InsideTracker.

InsideTracker是一个个性化营养平台，通过分析您的血液和DNA数据，帮助您更好地了解自己的身体并实现健康目标。

InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals.

我一直坚信定期进行血液检查，因为许多影响您短期和长期健康因素，只有通过高质量的血液检测才能分析出来。

Now I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done, for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long term health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.

然而，许多现有血液检测的问题在于，您虽然会收到关于代谢指标、激素等的信息，却不知道如何利用这些信息。

The problem with a lot of blood tests out there, however, is that you get information back about metabolic factors, hormones, etc, but you don't know what to do with that information.

通过InsideTracker，他们让理解您的检测结果变得非常简单，并且还会为您提供具体的建议，涵盖营养、运动、补充剂，甚至可以帮助您将指标调整到最佳范围的处方药物。

With InsideTracker, they make it very easy to understand your results, and they also point you to specific directives that you can follow in the realm of nutrition, exercise, supplementation, even prescription drugs that can help bring the levels back into the ranges that are optimal for you.

InsideTracker还提供InsideTracker Pro服务，使教练和健康专业人士能够利用InsideTracker的分析与建议，为客户提供高端个性化服务。

InsideTracker also offers InsideTracker Pro, which enables coaches and health professionals to provide premium and personalized services by leveraging InsideTracker's analysis and recommendations with their clients.

如果您想尝试InsideTracker，请访问insidetracker.com/huberman，享受任何计划20%的折扣。

If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can go to insidetracker.com/huberman to get 20% off any of InsideTracker's plans.

再次提醒，网址是insidetracker.com/huberman。

Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman.

好的。

Okay.

我们之前一直在讨论完全瘫痪，当然，这是指无法移动。

So we've been discussing complete paralysis, and of course, that's the inability to move.

嗯。

Mhmm.

让我们谈谈移动能力，也就是运动学习。

Let's talk about the ability to move, meaning motor learning.

睡眠与学习身体技能之间有什么关系？无论是运动协调，还是可能的功率输出或耐力提升？

What is the relationship between sleep and learning physical skills, either coordination of motor movement or who knows, maybe increased power output or endurance?

如果你能的话，能否评论一下，是否有特定的睡眠阶段与运动学习直接相关？

And if you would, could you comment on whether or not there are specific phases of sleep that are specifically linked to motor learning?

是的，很好的问题。

Yeah, great question.

到目前为止，我们谈到的是，为了形成教科书式的记忆，学习后需要睡眠。

So what we've spoken about so far is that you need sleep after learning for that textbook like memory.

这是一种记忆类型，存在于你的大脑中。

And that is one category of memory that resides within your brain.

还有另一种你提到的记忆类型，但很多人并没有意识到这其实也是一种记忆。

There's another type of memory that you've spoken about, which many of us don't realize is memory.

这就是我们所说的非陈述性记忆或程序性技能记忆。

And that's what we call non declarative or procedural skill memory.

所以，如果我问你，比如，安德鲁，昨晚晚餐或者昨天午餐，你还记得你吃了什么吗？

So if I were to, you know, ask you, okay, Andrew, you know, last night for dinner or yesterday for lunch, do you remember what it was that you had to eat?

我猜你大概能告诉我。

And my guess is that you could probably tell me.

你还记得我一些

Do you recall what My some of

我的饮食其实挺单调的，因为我通常每天吃的东西都差不多，不过我也愿意灵活调整。

diet is pretty boring in the sense I tend to eat more or less the same thing every day, although I'm open to being flexible.

昨天午餐我吃了两块草饲牛肉饼，可能还有一点米饭、切片黄瓜和一些番茄。

Yesterday for lunch, had two grass fed hamburger patties, maybe a little bit of rice, sliced cucumber, some tomatoes.

因为我是个顺手摘蓝莓吃的人，柜台上有一些蓝莓，我就抓了好几大把。

And because I'm a drive by blueberry eater, there were some blueberries out on the counter and I had several large fistfuls of those.

然后我用一些水把它们冲下去，还喝了一半杯像这样的冰萃无糖马黛茶。

And then I washed it down with some water and a half mug, just like this, of some cold brew, sugar free Yerba Mate.

我可以证实，各位，我当时就在现场，他吃的确实就是这些。

And I can confirm folks, I was there at the incident and that's exactly what he had.

但所有观看或收听的人是否都意识到今天在这间屋子里发生了什么？

But did everyone who was watching or listening just realize what happened in this room today?

爱因斯坦曾认为这根本不可能发生的事。

Something that Einstein suggested would never be possible.

安德鲁刚刚穿越了时间。

That Andrew just traveled back in time.

利用这种非凡的记忆能力，你像手风琴一样折叠了时间，在毫秒间倒退回过去，你当时还摇了摇头。

That using this incredible gift of memory, you folded time, almost like a concertina compressing it and you raced back within milliseconds, you were shaking your head.

是的，我知道我吃了什么。

Yes, I know what I had.

你迅速回到了你以往所有午餐的记忆目录中。

And you raced back into that catalog of all of your previous lunches.

你找到了那个特定午餐对应的马尼拉文件夹，所有细节立刻浮现出来。

You found the correct Manila folder for that specific lunch, all of the details and out it popped.

这是你的大脑记忆系统在毫秒内完成的一项极其复杂的计算过程。

That is a spectacularly complex computational process that your brain's memory system accomplish within milliseconds.

我们拥有这种记忆的天赋，真是令人惊叹。

It's stunning what we have as this gift of memory.

但正如我所说，还有一种记忆类型。

But as I said, there's another type of memory.

如果我问你，好吧，你怎么骑自行车？

So if I were to ask you, okay, how do you ride a bike?

这非常困难。

It's very difficult.

根本没有一本教科书告诉你如何骑自行车。

There is no textbook for here is how to ride a bike.

你小时候学习骑自行车的方式，是通过实际骑行来学会的。

The way that you do it when you're a child is that you are taught how to learn how to ride a bike by being on it.

所以，如果我作为一个有多年骑行经验的人，被问到如何骑车右转呢？

So if I were to say how, because I'm a long time cyclist, how do I take a right turn with my bicycle?

显而易见的回答是：你转动车把。

The obvious suggestion would be, well, you turn the handlebars.

但如果你以每小时30英里的速度转动车把来转弯，很快就会摔车。

If you turn the handlebars at 30 miles an hour, trying to go around a right bend, you're gonna crash very quickly.

实际上，你只是稍微调整了一下转向角度，同时身体倾斜。

What in fact you do is you alter the steering angle just a little, but you lean.

这就是我们所说的非陈述性记忆，意味着你无法用语言向我明确描述你所知道的内容。

And that is what we call non declarative, meaning you can't declare to me what it is that you know.

你只能通过行动和行为来向我展示。

You just have to show me through action and behavior.

这就是技能学习。

This is skill learning.

我们还将其应用于体育、外科手术、飞行飞机等领域。

And we use it for things like sports, surgical procedures, flying planes.

音乐表演也是如此。

There are so many musical performance as well.

方方面面都涉及。

So many aspects.

因此，我们想进一步探讨：睡眠对事实性记忆的巩固有帮助，但对这种其他类型的记忆呢？

So we wanted to then say, well, sleep is helpful after learning for fact based memory, but what about this other type of memory?

说实话，这个想法并不是我提出的。

And in truth, I didn't come up with the idea.

这个想法是早在2000年代初，我还在被提醒自己老了的时候，别人告诉我的。

It was given to me back in the, gosh, I'm aging myself, in the early 2000s.

我当时在英国，为‘大脑十年’活动做了一场讲座。

I was back in The UK and I gave a lecture at the, for the decade of the brain, which it was back then.

在课程结束时，我简单谈到了睡眠和信息处理，但当时还没有关于运动技能记忆的证据。

And at the end of the course, I'd spoken a little bit about sleep and this informational processing, but no evidence for motor skill memory.

这位先生，一位可爱的老人家，留着白色的胡须。

And this gentleman, lovely gentleman, old gentleman with a sort of a white beard.

我记得他穿着一件格子呢夹克，那种绿色非常漂亮。

I remember his tweed jacket, this green hue, was beautiful.

他在讲座结束后来找我，说：我是个音乐家，是个钢琴家。

And he came up to me at the end and he said, look, I'm a musician, I'm a pianist.

我对您提到的关于睡眠的内容非常着迷。

And I was fascinated by what you said about sleep.

有时候我坐下来学习一首新曲子，却怎么也弹不好。

Sometimes I'll sit down and I'm learning a new piece, and I just don't seem to be able to get it.

我一遍又一遍地练习，一直练到晚上，然后就停下来。

And I practice, practice, and practice into the evening, and then I just stop.

第二天我再回到钢琴前，就能流畅地演奏了。

And then I come back the next day and I sit down at the piano, and I can just play.

您觉得这跟睡眠有关吗？

Do you think that's sleep?

当然，那一刻我的脑海里开始涌出各种想法，我想天啊，这将是未来十年我的研究和经费方向。

And of course, at that moment, my mind starts just roll a decking with ideas and I'm thinking, gosh, there's the next ten years of my work and grants.

所以我有点说，我觉得这是一个非常有趣的假设。

So I sort of said, look, I think it's a fascinating hypothesis.

也可能只是你在晚上稍微有点累了，但这种情况完全有可能。

It could also be that you're just maybe a little bit tired in the evening, but it's entirely possible.

目前我还不知道有任何证据支持这一点。

I don't know of any evidence yet that supports that.

我猜另一种假设是，经历新事物并希望学习之后，需要经过一定的时间间隔。

I suppose the alternative hypothesis that there's simply a certain amount of time that needs to elapse after experiencing something new that one wants to learn.

学习的触发机制，我不知道，可能是某种生化或神经信号。

The trigger for learning is, I don't know, some biochemical slash neural signal.

这就像一道波前，而需要一段时间才能让这道波抵达岸边，也就是学习的发生。

That's like a wave front, and it takes a while for that wave to go ashore, which is learning.

而无论一个人睡了多少觉，或者睡眠质量如何，学习都可能发生。

And that independent of how much sleep one gets or the quality of sleep that the learning could occur.

我想这不失为一种想法。

I suppose that's one idea.

不，这实际上正是我们随后着手验证的核心假设：也许正是练习加上一段时间，帮助你形成了完美的运动模式。

No, that's in fact precisely the central hypothesis that we then set out to test, which is that your, maybe it's practice then some time that helps you create that perfect motor routine.

这是一种假设。

That's one hypothesis.

但让我们把这一点拆开来看。

But let's split that apart.

也许是时间，但指的是清醒时的时间。

Maybe it's time, but time spent awake.

还是说，是睡眠时的时间？

Or is it time, but time spent asleep?

因此，我们设计了一项研究来区分这两种可能性。

So we designed a study to disambiguate between those two.

两组参与者都学习了一项运动技能任务，这非常类似于学习弹钢琴。

Both groups learned a motor skill task, it's very much like learning a piano.

你学习一系列的动作。

And you learn a sequence of movements.

我们就假设是四、一、三、二、四。

Let's just say four, one, three, two, four.

我们让你反复输入这个序列，每次持续三十秒，然后休息三十秒，再重复进行。

And we have you type that out over and over again for periods of thirty seconds, and then you rest for thirty seconds, and then you do it again.

你总共完成12次这样的试验。

You do 12 of those trials.

果然，练习让你表现得更好了。

And sure enough, practice seemed to get you better.

你在不断学习，学习曲线也在上升。

And you were learning and your learning curve went up.

然后我们在十二小时后让这些参与者回来，重新测试他们对同一运动记忆的掌握情况。

And then we brought those participants back twelve hours later and we retested them on that same motor memory.

其中一半的参与者在这十二小时里保持清醒。

Half of those participants spent that twelve hours awake.

其他人则在之间经历了一整晚八小时的睡眠。

The others had a night of sleep in between an eight hour night of sleep.

当我们把那些早上学习、晚上测试且未睡觉的人重新召集回来时，他们仍然保留了那段记忆。

When we brought the people who had learned in the morning and tested in the evening without sleep, they had retained that memory.

他们并没有变得更差。

They were no worse.

但他们也没有变得更好。

They were just no better.

但对于那些睡过觉的人，惊人的是，他们的表现速度提高了20%，准确率也提升了近37%。

But in the people who had slept, what was stunning was that they had improved their performance output speed by 20% and they'd improved their accuracy by almost 37%.

哇。

Wow.

换句话说，你需要的不是时间来达到完美。

So in other words, it wasn't time that you needed to produce perfection.

而是带着睡眠的时间。

It was time with sleep.

换句话说，你经常听到‘熟能生巧’这句话，但我们打破了这一信条。

In other words, you've often heard the statement practice makes perfect, but we violated that edict.

真正让事情完美的并不是练习本身。

It wasn't practice that makes perfect.

真正带来完美的，是练习之后加上一整晚的睡眠。

It's practice with a night of sleep that makes or leads to perfection.

换句话说，在学习之后，你的大脑即使在没有进一步练习的情况下，仍在持续改进。

In other words, after learning, your brain continues to improve in the absence of any further practice.

然而，这种学习只发生在 Offline 睡眠期间，而不会在你清醒时的等长时间段内发生。

However, that learning occurs exclusively during periods of offline sleep and not across equivalent time periods while you're awake.

有趣的是，在那十二小时里保持清醒的群体，我们在再过十二小时、即经历了一整晚睡眠后，又把他们找了回来，结果他们也展现了这种美妙的提升。

Now, was interesting in the group that remained awake across those twelve hours, we then actually brought them back after a further twelve hours, but now after a night of sleep, and they showed that beautiful benefit.

所以，能够增强——我认为我们真正讨论的是巩固运动学习——的睡眠，可以发生在学习后的当晚，也就是说，一个人在上午11点左右完成学习，然后当晚就睡觉，或者第二天晚上再睡。

So the sleep that can, let's say, enhance, although I think what we're really talking about here that consolidates motor learning can arrive the night after, meaning one finishes, let's say learning at, I don't know, 11AM and then they sleep later that night, or the following night.

在这两种情况下，睡眠都能增强或巩固所发生的运动学习。

And in both instances, that sleep can enhance or let's say consolidate the motor learning that occurred.

没错。

That's right.

实际上，这正是我们之前讨论过的你的问题，我现在想起来我还没回答你：你白天学到的东西，不需要特意在睡前不久才学习，以便它们能被睡眠依赖的巩固过程所利用。

So it was to your question actually that we discussed earlier, and I recall now I didn't answer it, which is that you, the things that you learn throughout the day, you don't have to worry about learning them really close to bedtime, so that they're available and accessible for this sleep dependent work of sleep after learning.

似乎人类大脑在某个时间点会失去能力，无法再将记忆暂时保留，就像停在跑道上等待进入巩固阶段一样。

It seems to be that the human brain, and we've plotted this, we've looked at how, at what point does the brain sort of fail in terms of its ability to place on hold, sort of on the runway, ready to take off into the consolidation phase.

看来，人类可以将新形成的记忆保持大约十六个小时，之后才有机会通过睡眠来巩固它们。

And it seems to be about sixteen hours that you can hold on to those freshly formed memories for about sixteen hours, and then you get the chance to sleep and consolidate them.

所以，无论你是上午11点学习，还是晚上7点学习，都不用担心。

So if you learn at 11:00 in the morning or if you learn at 7PM in the evening, don't worry about that.

这些记忆仍会被睡眠那温暖而富有接纳性的怀抱收集起来，并在程序性记忆方面被整合和增强。

Those memories are still going to be gathered together in the beautiful receptive arms of sleep and then knitted up and enhanced when it comes to procedural memories.

顺便说一下，这正是这两种记忆类型的关键区别。

And by the way, that's a key difference to those two types of memory.

睡眠会将事实性记忆简单地保存下来，让你不至于遗忘。

Sleep will take fact based memories and simply save them so that you don't forget.

它并不一定会进一步提升它们。

It doesn't necessarily boost them anymore.

它只是简单地防止你遗忘，而如果在清醒状态下度过一整天，遗忘是必然会发生的事。

It just simply prevents you from forgetting, which is what would happen otherwise across a waking day.

关键点。

Key point.

这不是增强。

It's it's not enhancement.

它实际上是巩固，或者我可能会这样理解：新信息被存入一个潜在的记忆库中，而这些信息是否被保留或清除，取决于你是否获得了睡眠。

It's consolidation of or essentially, the way I might think about it is the new information is put into a potential memory bank, and that information is either flushed or maintained depending on whether or not you get sleep.

是的。

That's right.

也没有增强。

And there's no enhancement.

如果你睡觉，增强意味着记忆达到超常水平。

Enhancement would be supernormal levels of memory if you sleep.