如何掌控内心声音并增强韧性 | 伊桑·克罗斯博士

我看了这一幕，觉得非常温馨。

And I took a look at it was a very endearing moment.

然后降落时我说，能在任何地方睡着真是种超能力。

And then when we landed, I said, you know, the ability to sleep anywhere is a superpower.

他回答说，这是跟我爸爸学的。

And he said, I learned it from my dad.

那一刻我觉得，看到他们在飞机上这样的接触真是件很美好的事，显然他感到足够自在才能这样做。

And he said, and it was a moment where I just thought it was just a very pleasant thing to see them in this touch on on the plane, he clearly felt comfortable enough to do that.

我记得当时在想，是啊，人类和其他灵长类动物真的很像。

I remember thinking like, yeah, humans were a lot like the other primates.

是啊。

Yeah.

这其中有种美感。

There's there's a beauty to it.

而且你知道，这确实是一种工具。

And, you know, it is it is a tool.

这是一种必须在适当情境下明确使用的情绪调节工具。

It is one kind of shifter that has to be obviously used in the appropriate context.

我们所有的感官模式都是强大的工具，我认为它们能相对轻松地调节我们的情绪。

All of our sensory modalities are powerful tools for, I would argue, relatively effortlessly shifting our emotions.

我认为这非常重要，因为人们常以为情绪调节是件难事，甚至怀疑情绪是否真的能被调节。

And I think that's really important because people often think that regulating our emotions is hard work to the extent that they believe you can regulate your emotions at all.

我们稍后也会讨论这个话题——关于情绪控制与调节，需要卷起袖子认真投入。

We'll talk about that a little bit too, I'm control, emotion regulation, let me roll up my sleeves and really kind of get in there.

确实，有时管理情绪会异常困难，我们掌握的某些工具确实需要付出努力。

Yes, it can at times be extraordinarily difficult to manage our emotions and some of the tools that we have are effortful.

表达性写作就是一个例子。

One example would be expressive writing.

这是处理问题经历的绝佳工具。

It's a wonderful tool for working through problematic experiences.

你只需坐下来，每天花15到20分钟，持续1到3天，让自己尽情释放。

You sit down, just let yourself go for fifteen to twenty minutes a day for one to three days.

这就是彭尼贝克方法。

This is the Pennebaker.

这就是彭尼贝克写作效应。

This is the Pennebaker writing effect.

这简直是一个异常美妙、毫无副作用的干预手段，可以说它能帮助你应对生活抛给你的各种意外。

This just a remarkably wonderful side effect free, you could argue intervention for helping you deal with curve balls that life throws at you.

你有大量数据支持这些实践。

You have vast amounts of data supporting the practices.

海量的数据。

Vast amounts of data.

在我看来，彭尼贝克即使不配获得心理学界的诺贝尔奖，也绝对值得高度赞扬，因为他开发了这个近乎零成本、只需投入少许时间的方法。

Penny Baker really deserves, in my opinion, if not the psychology equivalent of a Nobel prize, I don't know what that is, but deserves real deep praise for developing that method because it's essentially zero cost, takes a little bit of time.

而且已经有数百项研究。

And there's just what hundreds of studies.

数百项研究证明

Hundreds of studies showing

这10到15分钟的宣泄性写作，就是自由联想写作。

that these ten to fifteen minute cathartic writing, just free associate writing.

据我所知，用铅笔写可能更好。

As I understand with a writing pencil is probably better.

我们做过一期节目，我谈到这个并收到了他的来信，很庆幸我们没有犯什么大错。

We did an episode where I talked about this and received a note from him and was grateful that we didn't get anything badly wrong.

事实上，他对这个很满意。

In fact, he was pleased with it.

我认为他应该得到很多赞誉。

I think that he deserves a lot of credit.

自我疗愈的强大工具。

Powerful tool for self healing.

我们其实刚刚在密歇根重启了一个著名的演讲系列——卡茨·纽科姆演讲系列，旨在表彰该领域的杰出人物。

We actually just restarted a prestigious speaker series at Michigan, the Katz Newcomb speaker series, which is designed to honor luminaries in the field.

而我们的首场演讲就是邀请杰米来分享他非凡的研究成果。

And we actually kicked it off with Jamie coming to speak about his extraordinary work.

因为这确实是一份礼物，我认为不仅是对这个领域，更是对全人类的馈赠。

Because this is really a gift, I think, not just to the field, but humanity.

然而，关键在于这是一种需要付出努力的工具。

And the but, though, here is that it's an effortful tool.

使用它需要十五分钟。

It takes fifteen minutes to use.

这本身并没有什么问题。

There is nothing wrong with that.

我们生活中做的很多事情都需要付出努力。

Lots of things that we do in life are effortful.

但我们也知道，作为人类，我们不喜欢费力。

But we also know that we don't like exerting effort as a species.

我们倾向于尽可能节省自己的资源。

We like to conserve our resources as much as possible.

所以如果同时有些简单易行的方法，了解这些方法也是有益的。

So if there are easy things you could do as well, it's good to know about what those are.

而这些感官转换器——音乐、观赏图像，这些都是调节方式。

And these sensory shifters, music, looking at images, these are modalities.

味觉、触觉。

Taste, touch.

这些都是短时间内有效调节情绪的方法，在紧急情况下——比如你女儿情绪低落时，或是重要活动前需要提振精神时——会非常有用。

These are ways of pushing your emotions around pretty effectively for short periods of time that in a pinch, like when your daughter's not in a great mood or when you want to get pumped up before an important event can be quite useful.

而我们常常在生活中忽略了如何策略性地利用它们。

And we often just go through our lives not recognizing how we can strategically harness them.

所以这就是我对感官转换器的推荐。

So that's my plug for sensory shifters.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商AG1。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, AG1.

AG1是一种含有维生素、矿物质、益生菌的饮品，还包括益生元和适应原。

AG1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that includes prebiotics and adaptogens.

我从2012年开始饮用AG1，当时我的预算非常有限。

I've been drinking AG1 since 2012, and I started doing it at a time when my budget was really limited.

事实上，我当时只够钱买一种补充剂，很高兴我选择了AG1。

In fact, I only had enough money to purchase one supplement, and I'm so glad that I made that supplement AG1.

原因在于，尽管我努力吃天然未加工食品，但仅靠饮食很难获取足够的维生素、矿物质、微量营养素和适应原，以确保我处于最佳状态——这意味着有足够精力从早到晚参与各种活动、夜间睡得好并保持免疫系统强健。

The reason for that is even though I strive to eat whole foods and unprocessed foods, it's very difficult to get enough vitamins and minerals, micronutrients and adaptogens from diet alone in order to make sure that I'm at my best, meaning have enough energy for all the activities I participate in from morning until night, sleeping well at night and keeping my immune system strong.

当我每天服用AG1时，我发现健康的各个方面——身体健康、心理健康、表现力、运动恢复能力——都得到了提升。

When I take AG1 daily, I find that all aspects of my health, my physical health, my mental health, my performance, recovery from exercise, all of those improve.

我深知这一点，因为曾有几次中断服用AG1，确实感受到了差异。

And I know that because I've had lapses when I didn't take my AG1 and I certainly felt the difference.

我还注意到——考虑到肠道微生物组与大脑的关联，这完全合理——定期服用AG1能让我思维更清晰、脑力更充沛。

I also noticed, and this makes perfect sense given the relationship between the gut microbiome and the brain, that when I regularly take AG1, that I have more mental clarity and more mental energy.

若想尝试AG1，可访问drinkag1.com/huberman领取特别优惠。

If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer.

仅在2024年11月，AG1除常规赠品（5份旅行装和一年份维生素D3K2）外，还将额外赠送一个月量的鱼油Omega-3脂肪酸。

For this month only November 2024, AG1 is giving away a free one month supply of omega-three fatty acids from fish oil in addition to their usual welcome kit of five free travel packs and a year supply of vitamin D3K2.

正如我在播客中多次提到的，Omega-3脂肪酸对大脑健康、情绪、认知等都至关重要。

As I've discussed many times before on this podcast, omega-three fatty acids are critical for brain health, mood, cognition, and more.

再次提醒，请访问 drinkag1.com/huberman 领取这个特别优惠。

Again, go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim this special offer.

今天的节目也由 Juve 赞助播出。

Today's episode is also brought to us by Juve.

Juve 生产医疗级红光治疗设备。

Juve makes medical grade red light therapy devices.

在本播客中我持续强调的一点就是：光对我们的生物机能有着惊人影响。

Now, if there's one thing that I've consistently emphasized on this podcast is the incredible impact that light can have on our biology.

除了阳光之外，红光和近红外光已被证明能有效改善细胞与器官健康的多个方面，包括加速肌肉恢复、改善皮肤健康和伤口愈合、缓解痤疮、减轻疼痛炎症、增强线粒体功能，甚至改善视力本身。

Now, in addition to sunlight, red light and near infrared light have been shown to have positive effects on improving numerous aspects of cellular and organ health, including faster muscle recovery, improved skin health and wound healing, improvements in acne, reduced pain and inflammation, improved mitochondrial function, and even improving vision itself.

Juve 设备的与众不同之处——也是我首选它们的原因——在于采用临床验证的波长组合，即同时使用特定波长的红光和近红外光来触发最佳细胞适应机制。

Now what sets Juve Lights apart and why they're my preferred red light therapy devices is that they use clinically proven wavelengths, meaning they use specific wavelengths of red light and near infrared light in combination to trigger the optimal cellular adaptations.

我个人每周使用 Juve 全身治疗仪三到四次，并在家和旅行时使用他们的手持式设备。

Personally, I use the Juve whole body panel about three to four times a week, and I use the Juve handheld light both at home and when I travel.

如需试用 Juve 产品，请访问 joovv.com/huberman（注：Juve拼写为J-O-O-V-V）。

If you'd like to try Juve, you can go to juvespelledjoovv.com/huberman.

Joovv现正推出黑色星期五优惠活动，截止至2024年12月2日最高可享1300美元折扣。

Joovv is offering Black Friday discounts of up to $1,300 now through 12/02/2024.

再次提醒，访问joovv.com/huberman即可在指定Joovv产品上享受最高1300美元优惠。

Again, that's Joovv, joovv,.com/huberman to get up to $1,300 off select Joovv products.

让我们回到内心独语的话题，总结一下它带来的益处。

Let's go back to just close the loop on the inner voice and the benefits that it provides.

我们已经讨论过两点。

So we talked about two.

首先是言语工作记忆，对吧？

Verbal working memory, right?

即在短时间内保持言语信息的活跃状态。

Keeping verbal information active for short periods of time.

其次是关于模拟和规划功能，比如在面试或重要演讲前预演要说的话。

And we talked about simulating and planning things, like going over what you're going to say before an interview, or an important presentation.

现在我们来谈谈自我控制与动机。

Let's turn to self control and motivation.

所以你锻炼身体，因为你之前提到过锻炼的事。

So you exercise, because you've talked about exercising.

我尽量每周锻炼六天，虽然有些是短时间训练，有些则较长。

I try to exercise six days a week, although some are short workouts, some are longer.

你锻炼时会自言自语吗？

You ever talk to yourself when you exercise?

哦，经常这样。

Oh, all the time.

那说来听听。

So let's hear it.

全世界都想知道，安德鲁，你锻炼时对自己说什么？

The world wants to know Andrew, what do you say to yourself when you exercise?

这取决于我休息得如何，以及我的动力水平。

Depends on how well rested I am, how motivated I am.

我可以举两个处于动机量表两极端的例子。

I'll give two examples at the opposite poles of the motivational scale.

两周前我在旅行时做了一些针对肩部后方肌肉的训练，就是三角肌后束，我觉得没人会喜欢练这块肌肉，但它非常重要

I was traveling two weeks ago and I was doing some exercise for the, there's a muscle on the back of the shoulder, the rear deltoid, it's, I don't think anyone's favorite muscle to train, but it's a very important one

就是做这个动作的时候

for- That's when you do this one.

你说得对，这对肩部姿态和稳定性很重要，我当时就是在训练那块肌肉群，否则人们容易形成内旋姿势，就像大拇指指向腹部、肩膀前倾那样

You're right, for shoulder posture and stability and got trained, was that muscle group, because otherwise people tend to get this inward rotating, like your thumbs pointing toward belly and shoulders rolling forward thing.

这背后有很多重要原因

And there are a number of reasons why it's important.

所以你必须练三角肌后束

So you got to do the rear delt thing.

我在做完几组热身动作后坐下来开始第一组正式训练

And I sat down to do the first work set after a couple warmups.

我记得当时在想，我太爱训练了

And I remember thinking like, I love training.

我太爱训练了

I love training.

我从16岁开始训练时就一直如此。

I have since I started training when I was 16.

不知为何，我今早就是不想做这个。

And I thought to myself, for some reason, I don't wanna do this this morning.

然后我想，好吧，大卫·戈金斯可能会在脑子里咒骂自己。

And then I thought, okay, David Goggins would probably start swearing at himself in his head.

于是我也稍微尝试了一下。

So I started that a little bit.

但这招对我并不管用。

And that didn't really work for me.

抱歉了，大卫。

Sorry, David.

接着我决定尝试所有我能想到的内心声音。

And then I thought, I'm going to go through every possible inner voice I can think of.

于是我听到了乔科·威林克的声音。

So I heard Jocko Willink's voice.

我和Jocko是朋友，她只是随口说'随便啦'之类的话。

I'm friends with Jocko and her just saying like, yeah, whatever.

你就是太软弱了，懂吗？或者就是那种'无论如何都要做'的心态。

You're just weak, you know, or just like do it anyway kind of mentality.

我开始轮番尝试所有这些声音，并和自己约定：当我想不出新声音时，就结束这组训练。

And I just started cycling through all all of them, and I made a deal with myself that when I ran out of voices to use, that's when I would stop the set.

我完成的重复次数可能达到了平时用这个重量训练时的三倍。

And I probably tripled the number of repetitions that I would normally get with that weight.

这有点像三分动力、三分分心、三分沮丧的混合体。

So it was like one part motivation, one part distraction, one part frustration.

我只是从脑海中各种教练式的声音库中随机抽取，效果居然相当不错。

And I was just pulling from the catalog of possible voices of kind of coach like voices and worked out pretty well.

嗯。

Yeah.

而在另一个极端，我也能回忆起很多次——因为我刻意营造这种状态——当我充分休息、补充水分、摄入适量咖啡因（我超爱咖啡因）后开始训练，我绝对热爱在这种条件下训练。

And then at the other extreme, I can recall many times because I put effort into it where I'm well rested, I'm hydrated, get appropriate amounts of caffeine in my system, which I love and sit down and train and I absolutely love to train under those conditions.

阳光明媚，音乐在播放。

The sun is shining, music's playing.

我记得这是在练腿日的一组动作时，总是最艰难的日子，一组沉重的哈克深蹲，当时就在想，我爱这个。

And I just remember this was during a set this was a leg day, always the hardest day, set of heavy hack squats and just thinking, I love this.

但我有个内心声音，每次开始重复动作时，我都会经历这个过程：绷紧腹部以防伤到背部。

But I have this inner voice where every time I start a repetition, I go through thing where I brace my midsection so I don't hurt my back.

我总是直视天花板，想着我的斗牛犬科斯特洛。

And I always look directly at the ceiling and I think about my bulldog Costello.

我想着，这一组是为你做的。

And I think, I'm a do this one for you.

这一组是为你做的。

I'm a do this one for you.

我知道在那些时刻，我的内心声音会变成：他大概只会坐在那里想，你为什么要这么拼命训练？

And I know at those moments, my inner voice goes to, he would probably just be sitting there like, why are you working this hard?

斗牛犬可不喜欢工作。

Bulldogs don't like to work.

所以我其实并不是那种内心独白能形成完整句子的类型。

So I I'm not really in a complete sentence generation inner voice kind of thing.

但你有一个非常丰富的内心世界。

But you have a very rich inner world.

对吧？

Right?

你的言语工作记忆流在锻炼时充满了各种词汇。

You you are your your, you know, verbal working memory stream is filled with with words when you are working out.

是啊。

Yeah.

我跟你说件事。

And I'll tell you this.

我本来打算在节目后面问你的，不过现在说可能更合适，我觉得是时候了。

I was gonna ask you this later in the episode, but maybe it's relevant now, I think it is.

小时候，父母给我盖好被子哄我睡觉后，我常常躺在床上复述白天听到的各种声音。

When I was a kid, after my parents would tuck me in to go to sleep at night, I used to lie in bed and rehearse voices that I'd heard throughout the day.

而且我觉得我能听到他们说话的语气，然后我会让他们说不同的话，就为了自娱自乐。

And I felt like I could hear them in their tone of voice, And then I'd make them say different things just for my own entertainment.

所以我可以让他们说任何我想说的话，但要用特定的声音。

So I could have them say whatever I wanted, but in a particular voice.

我的朋友们有时会取笑我，说我总爱给别人配音，比如给某人配个玛姬·辛普森那样的声音。

And my friends sometimes tease me that I'll give people voices like, I'll give someone like a Marge Simpson voice or something.

他们会说'她根本不是那样说话的'，但我就是会在脑海里编造一个故事。

I'll just They're like, she doesn't sound like that at all, but I'll just sort of create a narrative in my mind.

是啊，里面有很多喋喋不休的声音，很多不同的嗓音。

So yeah, a lot of chatter in there, a lot of voices.

对。

Yeah.

但并不是很有条理。

But not super organized.

不像是在构思一部戏剧。

It's not like I'm constructing a play.

就是，你知道的，感觉像是各种想法在脑海里蹦跶。

It's kind of, you know, it it feels like things guys are up.

我嘛，会稍微摆弄它们一下，但整体上就是个大杂烩。

I, you know, I toy with them, maybe a little, and then but it's kind of a mishmash.

这过程并不特别有条理。

It's not super regimented.

这些甚至算不上完整的句子。

These aren't complete sentences.

嗯，你知道为什么彭尼·贝克效应被认为很有用吗？因为它能给通常杂乱无章的思维流强加一个结构。

Well, you know, one of the reasons why the Penny Baker effect is believed to be so useful is because it imposes a structure on the stream going through our head, which is oftentimes not organized.

当你发现内心语言流往消极方向发展时——比如消极的自我对话，就是那些喋喋不休的念头，对吧？

And when you find that inner verbal stream going in the negative direction, so negative self talk, so the chatter, right?

'你个白痴，真是蠢透了'，你不断纠结某个问题却毫无进展。

You're an idiot, such an idiot, you're looping over a problem without making any progress.

把这些话写下来——实际上就是把内心独白转化成故事——这正是彭尼·贝克写作提示引导你做的事。

Putting those words in you know, actually taking that inner shaman and making a story out of it is essentially what the Penny Baker writing cues you to do.

因为我们从小被教导写作要用完整的句子。

Because we are taught when we write, we write in sentences.

我们在写作时会强加一种结构给我们的思维。

There's a structure to our writing that we impose on our thinking.

但在我们脑海里，思绪可以自由驰骋。

Up here in our minds, it's a free for all.

它可以朝任何方向发展。

It can go in all sorts of directions.

而这种混乱某种程度上正是让内心独白如此令人抗拒的原因。

And that chaos is in part what can make chatter so aversive.

我很高兴你提到这点。

I'm so glad you're bringing this up.

我们播客的第一位嘉宾是卡尔·戴瑟罗斯。

Our very first guest ever on this podcast was a guy named Karl Deisseroth.

他是一名生物工程师。

He's a bioengineer.

他是一名执业精神科医生。

He's a practicing psychiatrist.

他是神经科学领域的杰出人物之一。

He's one of the luminaries of neuroscience.

他开发了这些光敏感通道，能够操控动物模型中的神经元，现在也应用于人类临床工作。

He developed these light sensitive channels to be able to manipulate neurons in animal models, but also now in human clinical work as well.

他分享的一件事是，在哄孩子入睡后——我想现在孩子们已经长大了——但在晚上，他会刻意静坐，身体完全静止，闭上眼睛，强迫自己用完整的句子思考大约一小时或更久。

And one thing that he shared was that after he puts his kids to sleep, I think now they're grown, but in the evening, he'll sit, deliberately sit still, completely bodily still, close his eyes, and force himself to think in complete sentences for maybe an hour or so, maybe more.

我当时心想，哇，这真是一种非常自律的练习。

And I thought to myself, wow, like that's a very disciplined practice.

这也印证了你所说的观点，即通常用完整句子思考并非默认模式。我不知道他这样做的具体原因是什么。

It also speaks to what you're saying, which is that typically thinking in complete sentences is not the default of So the I don't know what his specific reason for doing that is.

他在那期播客节目中分享了一些原因，但我相信还有其他理由。

He shared a few of them on that podcast episode, but I'm sure there are others as well.

但我尝试过，这非常困难，尤其是闭着眼睛时，很难不陷入多重叙事，就像意识流分叉成支流，然后逐渐溶解到睡眠或冥想体验中。

But I tried it, it's very difficult to, especially with eyes closed, to not drift into multiple narratives, of the stream sort of split into the tributaries and then, you know, it sort of, you dissolve into sleep or meditation experience.

是啊。

Yeah.

几乎是一种梦境般的状态，你知道的，那些阈限状态。

Almost dream like state where you're you know, these liminal states.

嗯，我认为这正是写作提供了一个工具来结构化你的思维。

Well, that's I think where the writing provides a tool to structure your thinking.

说话也有类似的模式。

Talking is a is a has a similar modality.

所以当我们与人交谈时，对话方式是有结构的——如果我只是用我脑海中弹球般跳跃的方式和你说话，你根本无法理解我，还会觉得我脑子有问题。

So when we talk to people, there is a structure to the way we converse where we're not if I were to just talk to you the way I pinball in my mind, you wouldn't be able to understand me and you would think I'm out of my bleeping mind.

对吧？

Right?

因为我将无法与你进行有意义的对话。

Because I would be unable to have a meaningful conversation with you.

有研究表明，如果让人们回忆一个引发喋喋不休的经历（比如想起发生在自己身上的负面事件），然后随机分配他们要么只在脑海中思考消化，要么写下来分析。

So there's some research which shows that if you get people to think of, to recall a chatter provoking experience, so think about something negative that's happened to you, and then you randomly assign them to just think about it and work it through in their mind versus write about it.

所以我

So I.

呃

E.

类似Penny Baker写作的情况

A Penny Baker writing like condition.

或者和别人谈谈这件事

Or talk about it to someone else.

无论是交谈还是写作，都比单纯思考更能改善人们完成后的感受

The talking and the writing both do better in terms of how they feel when they're done as compared to the just thinking.

因为我们的思维方式没有约束

Because there's no guardrails to the way we think.

我们应该补充说明的是

That we are taught, should add,

因为我们稍后会在节目中给人们提供约束

because we're going to give people guardrails later in this episode.

除了采用Penny Baker的方法外，我们还会在节目中提供Penny Baker日记法的相关资源链接，因为网上有些免费资源非常实用，适合想以此为模板的人使用。

So in addition to using the Penny Baker approach, and by the way, we'll provide a link to some resources for the Penny Baker journaling, because there's some free online resources that I think are really powerful for people to use if they want to use that as a template.

出于宣泄情绪的需要，或是单纯为了理清思路——我对这种感觉再熟悉不过了：醒来时总觉得脑子里不是狂风暴雨，而是一团乱麻，难以集中精神。

For cathartic reasons, or just, you know, get one's mind around a problem, or something I'm very familiar with, waking up and just feeling like everything is kind of, not a storm in there, but a bit too disorganized to get my head right.

所以，我需要一些方法来

You know, and so I need things to

让我头脑清醒。

get my head right.

有时是音乐，有时是写作。

Sometimes it's music, sometimes it's writing.

听起来写日记总体上是个非常实用的习惯。

It sounds like journaling is just a really useful practice overall.

这是个实用却未被充分利用的习惯。

It's a useful practice and it's an underutilized practice.

我们在新冠疫情期间做了两项大型研究，观察人们如何通过日常情绪调节来应对疫情引发的焦虑。

So we did two pretty large studies during COVID to look at how people how are people regulating their emotions on a daily basis to deal with the anxiety surrounding COVID?

我们提供了一系列工具供他们每天勾选使用情况。

And we gave them a series of tools that they could check off if they used the tools that day.

我们从中发现了几点非常有趣的结论。

And we learned a couple of really interesting things.

第一，并不存在适合所有人的通用解决方案。

Number one, there are no one size fits all solutions for folks.

不同人群适用的工具存在显著差异——对A有效的工具对B可能完全无效。

So remarkable variability characterized the tools that worked for person A versus person B.

第二，人们很少只使用单一工具。

Number two, it was seldom the case that people used one tool.

平均而言，人们每天会使用三到四种工具。我认为这揭示了另一个重要启示——经常有人问我管理情绪的首选工具是什么？

In general, people used on average three or four tools each day, which I think is another really important take home because I am often asked, for example, what is my favorite tool for managing emotions?

我并没有固定答案，因为我通常会组合使用多种工具，大多数人其实都是如此。

I don't have a favorite tool because I'm typically using multiple tools and most people are doing exactly the same.

这就像我们关于情绪调节的研究发现——某种程度上它与体育锻炼有着相似之处。

So it's kind of like what we're learning about emotion regulation is in some ways it's similar to physical exercise.

你不会每天都用同样的动作只锻炼三角肌后束。

You're not only going to work out your rear deltoids with the same exercise every day.

如果真这样做，你的肩膀会看起来怪怪的，对吧？

You would have like funky looking shoulders if you did, right?

而且身体其他部位可能会变得相当虚弱。

And you'd probably be pretty weak in lots of other parts of your body.

你会进行多种训练，而你的训练项目很可能和我的完全不同。

You're doing multiple things and the multiple things that you do to exercise, I'm guessing are different from the multiple things that I do to exercise.

但我们可能同样健康。

Yet we may well be equally fit.

好吧，你可能比我更健康些，但道理你明白了。

Well, you may be a little bit more fit than me, but you get the drift.

因此我们管理内心世界的方式存在这种美妙的多样性。

So there's this beautiful variability to how we manage our inner worlds.

回到表达性写作的话题，我们发现当人们使用这种方法时，它确实非常非常有帮助。

To bring it back to expressive writing, we found that expressive writing, when people used it, was really, really useful.

它显著缓解了人们对新冠疫情的焦虑。

It moved the needle on their COVID anxiety.

但这是一种未被充分利用的工具。

But it was an underutilized tool.

人们并不经常这样做。

People didn't do it very much.

我认为部分原因是这种方式需要付出一定努力。

And I think that's in part because it is somewhat effortful.

我想问另一个关于思维活动的问题，它与我们当前讨论的内容正好相反——通过书面形式组织思想来解析某个观点或处理情绪状态。

Ask another question about movement that falls on the other end of the spectrum to what we're talking about now, is structuring one's thoughts in the form of writing in order to parse an idea or work through an emotional state.

顺便说一句，我之所以用2015年的这些轶事，并非要聚焦于我个人，只是作为具有普遍性的例证。

In 2015, by the way, I use these anecdotes, not because I want to focus on me, just as generalizable anecdotes.

具体细节并不重要，但我想大多数人都有过面临重大决策时需要权衡选项A与选项B的经历。

Okay, the specifics here don't matter, but I think probably most people are familiar with having an important decision where they have to weigh, you know, path A versus path B.

当时我就处于这种境地——实际上是在两个机构的工作机会之间做选择，每个机会都有巨大优势，也都无明显缺点，这确实是个艰难的决定。

And I was in that place, was actually choosing between a job at one institution and another institution, each of which had tremendous advantages, neither had any striking disadvantages, but it was a really hard decision.

当时我身边亲近的人都会告诉你那简直太煎熬了。

And those close to me at that time will tell you that it was just brutal.

它一直就在那里。

It had been there.

是啊。

Yeah.

我让周围所有人都痛苦不堪，以至于大家干脆说‘扔硬币决定吧’。

I made everybody around me suffer tremendously to the point where people were just like flip a coin.

我并不是一个优柔寡断的人。

Now I'm not an indecisive person.

我认为，重大决策值得投入时间和精力去考量，但当时确实面临时间压力。

I think, you know, it's one of these things where big decisions, I think, deserve a time and attention, and and it was a time constraint thing.

所以我当时反复研究这份利弊清单。

So I was pouring over this procons list.

我还观看YouTube视频，试图寻找最佳决策方法。

I was watching YouTube videos trying to figure out best ways for decision making.

我当时试图，实际上

I was trying to I actually

话说回来，我们在那种处境下不觉得很神奇吗？

Isn't isn't it amazing by the way when we're in those situations?

我完全明白你在说什么，因为我确信自己当时也处于完全相同的境地。

And I know exactly what you're talking about because I was pretty sure I was in exactly the same position.

你在那种情况下为获取洞见所做的举动都很疯狂。

The things you do in those circumstances to get some insight are wacky.

比如我敢肯定你当时谷歌了一些根本不该搜索的决策树这类东西

Like I'm sure you were Googling things that you had no business Googling these kinds of decision trees

我是说，事实证明确实存在数学模型——其实是我在纽约大学的同事托尼·马夫琴提出的，我忘了那个模型叫什么，但有个关于应该评估多少城镇的模型。

and I mean, it's It turns out there are mathematical models that like there's the actually my colleague at NYU, Tony Mavchen, I forget the name of the model, but there's a model about how many towns you should evaluate.

这是个古老的例子，关于创业选址时应该评估多少个城镇。

It's an old kind of old example of towns you should evaluate in terms of where to start a business.

比如两个？还是三个？

Like, is it two, is it three?

那里确实存在一个最优策略。

And there's an optimal strategy there.

无论如何，大部分建议都没什么帮助。

In any event, most of it wasn't helping.

而且我确实认为，到某个阶段你不需要太多委员会成员，因为那样只会让事情变得

And I do believe that at some point you don't want too many committee members because it just gets

混乱。

confusing.

所以最有用的两条信息来自以下做法。

So the two best pieces of information came from the following practices.

一位同事说，忘掉所有表面的利弊分析。

One was a colleague said, forget all the superficial pro con stuff.

实际上我认为这个方法在我生活的各个领域都被证明非常有用。

And I actually think this has proved to be very useful in all domains of life for me.

他说，分别在两个地方各想象一个典型的工作日会是什么样子。

He said, take yourself through a typical weekday in one place versus the other.

醒来后，你要去哪里？

Wake up, where are you going to go?

你打算怎么出行？

How are you going to travel?

把一天的日常事务过一遍，因为一旦你身处某个地方或处于某种关系中，其他一切都会变得不再重要。

Take yourself through the practicals of the day because everything else falls away once you're at a place or you're in a type of relationship.

把具体的一天经历完整想象一遍。

Take yourself through a given day.

不要只考虑你将效力的机构、就读的学校或建立的关系——这些固然重要，但要把整天的流程都设想周全。

Don't think about the relationship or the institution that you're going to work for, school you're going to go to, that's important, but take yourself through the entire day.

于是我照做了。

So I did that.

他还建议在周末也这样做，因为你知道，在我们的行业里我们总是工作，但偶尔也需要休息一天。

And then he said, also do it on a weekend because, know, well, in our profession, we tend to work all the time, but occasionally you take a day off.

这个方法非常实用。

And so that was very useful.

另一件非常有用的事情——当时完全出乎我意料——是我正在拳击馆训练，练习速度球且打得还不错。

The other thing that was very useful, which was completely surprising to me was at that time I was training in a boxing gym and I was doing some speed bag work and decent at it.

你会进入一种节奏，速度球训练的妙处就在于当你进入节奏后，会忘记自己正试图以特定方式完成动作。

You you get into a rhythm and what's so great about speed bag work is that you get into a rhythm where you forget that you're trying to do the movement in a particular way.

这些我们称之为中枢模式发生器的神经机制会接管一切。

These central pattern generators, as we call them in neuroscience take over.

你只是机械地转动手腕，偶尔才会想：'好吧，这记出拳需要多转些髋部'，或是'多练练头部闪避动作'之类。

And you're just kind of, you know, turning your hands over in a way and you're like, every once in while you can think, okay, you need to put a little more hip swivel into this or a little more head movement and practice my slips or something.

但到某个阶段后，动作基本上就变成无意识的了。

But it's largely unconscious after a certain point.

我正在练习时，突然'砰'地一声，一个想法像间歇泉般喷涌而出，于是我做出了决定。

And I was doing that and all of a sudden, boom, a thought just geyser to the surface and I made my decision.

那就是我的最终决定。

And that was my final decision.

没错。

Yeah.

而我从未改变过那个决定。

And I never went back from that decision.

所以正是在不试图用语言解析事物的过程中，词语从我大脑深处的某个无意识区域——可能是皮层或别的什么部位——突然涌现出来。

And so it was in the act of not trying to parse things through words that words sprung up from my whatever unconscious somewhere in my brain, cortical or some cortical, I don't know.

当时的感觉就像是：就这样定了。

And it was like, that's it.

这个决定让我感到无比震撼。

And I was overwhelmed by that.

再次声明，我分享这些并不是因为我认为速度球或之前举的例子能解决所有人的问题，而是因为解决难题的答案似乎来自截然相反的方法。

And again, I don't share all that because I think it's speed bags or it's the example I gave before that's going to solve it for everybody, but that these answers to hard problems seem to come from very diametrically opposed approaches.

用纸笔完整构建句子，或者像Dysaroth那样刻意为之。

Verbal construction of complete sentences with paper or deliberately like Dysaroth does.

还有就是根本不去试图寻找答案。

And then also like not trying to get an answer at all.

砰的一下，答案就出现了。

Boom, the answer shows up.

这到底是怎么回事？

What in the world is that?

这说明了一个观点：首先，面对许多重大问题和决策时，并不存在放之四海皆准的解决方案。

So it speaks to this idea that, first of all, there are no one size fits all solutions to addressing many of the big kinds of problems and decisions we have to face.

因此，自我发现和顿悟存在不同的模式。

So there are different modalities to self discovery and insight.

是的，你可以非常理性地思考、逐步推敲、写下想法并与他人交流。

And yes, you can think very rationally and work it through and write about it and have conversations with other people.

同时你也可以让潜意识的问题解决机制自行运作。

And then you can also allow your unconscious problem solving machinery to do its thing.

我们虽不完全理解其运作原理，但确实知道这种经历并不罕见。

We don't understand completely how this works, but we do know that your experience is not infrequent.

许多人报告称，当他们没有刻意思考时，反而会获得顿悟时刻。

Many people report having moments of insight when not they otherwise engaged.

有一种观点认为，我们其实一直在后台进行问题解决，只是当解决方案浮现到意识层面时我们才察觉到。

And one line of thinking is that we are doing problem solving behind the scenes that we're not aware of the solutions are bubbling up to awareness.

所以我实际上，可能用词不当，但我将这个机制为我所用。

So I actually, this may be the wrong usage of terms, but I weaponize this process for myself.

在我锻炼之前，无论是上跑步机、划船还是做其他运动，我都会预先思考我正在寻求解决方案的具体问题。

So before I exercise, before I get on the treadmill or row or do whatever I'm gonna do, I will load up the particular issue that I'm trying to find a solution for.

有时是关于如何措辞一个段落。

Sometimes it's how to word a paragraph.

如果我在写书，可能是关于如何找到合适的故事类型。

It might be if I'm working on a book, how to find the right kind of story.

如果是我需要化解的人际关系问题，我会先把它记在心上。

If it's an interpersonal issue that I've got to smooth over, I load that up.

然后我就会开始使用设备。

And then I just get on the device.

通常我进行的是有氧运动。

It's usually an aerobic exercise that I'm doing.

我不会刻意以固定方式思考，但想法和潜在的解决方案总会自然而然地浮现在意识中。

And I don't really think about it in any fixed way, but inevitably the ideas, the potential solutions bubble up into awareness.

这是我拥有的一个非常有价值的工具，我认为它让我在生活的各个领域都能取得成功。

That is a real valuable tool that I possess that I think allows me to have success in various areas of my life.

这也揭示了为什么内心喋喋不休会如此有害的一个原因。

It also identifies one of the reasons why chatter can be so unbelievably pernicious.

我们还没谈到内心声音的所有好处，还有一个我想提及的好处，但我要先稍微绕个弯，因为我觉得这点非常重要。

So we didn't get to all the benefits of the There's one more benefit of the inner voice that I want get to, but I'm going to take a detour here for a second because I think this is really important.

如果我们把内心喋喋不休视为你内心声音的阴暗面，那基本上就是你一直在脑海中反复纠结同一个问题却毫无进展。

If we think of chatter as the dark side of your inner voice, you're basically continuing to loop over the same problem in your head without making any progress.

如果发生这种情况怎么办？

What if this happens?

为什么会发生这种情况？

Why did this happen?

我真是个白痴。

I'm such an imbecile.

你只是在不断重复那些负面现象或经历。

You're just continually going over that negative phenomenon or experience.

你没有任何进展。

You're not making any headway.

它做的一件事就是消耗我们的注意力资源。

One of the things that that does is it consumes our attentional resources.

它就像一块海绵，吸走了那些有限的资源。

It acts like a sponge that soaks up those limited resources.

这意味着当我踏上跑步机或划船机时——那通常是我用来创新的时间，对吧，想出能让我在个人和职业上取得进步的解决方案——我的大脑并没有在解决这些问题。

And so what that means is when I get on the treadmill or rowing machine, and that's typically the time that I spend innovating, right, coming up with solutions that allow me to progress personally and professionally, I don't have my mind's not working to solve those problems.

相反，它被困在处理这些毫无进展的烂摊子里。

Instead it is stuck dealing with this other muck where I'm not getting anywhere.

事实上我们看到文献表明，闲谈损害人们的方式之一就是干扰他们专注和解决问题的能力。

And so we actually see if you look at the literature that one of the ways that chatter undermines people is it interferes with their ability to focus and solve problems.

这只是它损害人们的一种方式，但这是一个非常非常巨大的负担。

And that's just one way it undermines people, but that is a huge, huge liability.

创伤与内心闲谈水平升高之间有关联吗？

Is there an association between trauma and elevated levels of internal chatter?

我要说这不仅仅是关联。

I would say even more than an association.

我们通常将这种内心对话视为一种跨诊断机制——虽然术语拗口，但它能预测多种情绪障碍。

So we often think of chatter as what we call it as a transdiagnostic mechanism, so it's a mouthful, that predicts various kinds of mood disorders.

这意味着内心对话指向一种心理过程。

So what that means is chatter refers to a process.

一种不断在脑海中反复循环相同内容的心理过程。

A process of looping, turning the same material over and over in your head.

这种循环的内容可以呈现多种形式。

The content of that looping can take many different forms.

你可能会在其中注入一些悲伤的认知。

You can inject some sad cognitions in there.

我是个废物，真是个废物。

I'm a shit, such a shit.

可以说'废物'这个词吗？

Is it okay to say shit?

我该

Should I

说那个吗？

say that?

当然。

Sure.

我是说，大卫·高金斯上过这个播客。

People I mean, David Goggins was on this podcast.

好的。

Okay.

是啊。

So Yeah.

你懂吗？

You know?

我是说，几乎什么都可以说。

I mean, pretty much anything goes.

通常我们不会互相说脏话，不过

Typically we don't swear at each other, but

希望如此。

I should hope not.

我脸皮挺厚的，如果你需要的话，我听过比你说的难听得多的话

I'm pretty thick skinned if you need to, I've been called way worse than anything you've

你练过拳击。

You've been boxing.

我高中时确实打过拳击。

I actually boxed in high school.

我不建议人们打拳击，除非是职业选手，即便如此，作为一名神经科学家，我必须说——

I don't recommend people box unless they're professional and even then, I mean, I must say as a neuroscientist-

这很有趣。

It's a lot of fun.

是啊。

Yeah.

每周三晚上我会稍微练练对打，但我得说，确实有其他运动可以让你全力以赴到10分水平。

And on Wednesday nights, I'd spar a little bit, but I will say this, are other sports where you can go level 10 out of 10.

是啊。

Yeah.

对大脑更安全，安全得多的运动，比如巴西柔术之类的。

More safely, much more safely for the brain, like Brazilian jujitsu and things like that.

你们通常不会

You You typically don't

想要伤害大脑。

want to insult the brain.

没错。

Yeah.

作为神经科学家，我不能鼓励人们

As a neuroscientist, I can't I encourage people to

我也同意。

would agree.

无论如何，我保证不会越过桌子扑向你，前提是你也保证不这样做。

In any case, I promise not to leap across the table if you do the same.

很公平。

Fair enough.

成交？

Deal?

公平

Fair

成交。

deal.

所以基本上，'喋喋不休'指的是这种反复循环的过程。

So basically chatter refers to this process of looping over and over.

如果你在其中注入一些悲伤的认知，比如'我是个白痴'、'我永远无法发挥潜力'、'我不属于这里'，那么……

If you inject some sad cognitions in there, I'm an imbecile, how can I I'm never gonna live up to my potential, I don't belong here?

那么如果你把这种思维推向极端，持续不断地重复，就会逐渐滑向抑郁的深渊。

So then you get, if you take that to an extreme, high intensity, and you persevere it over time, then you're getting towards depression.

如果你往这个循环里注入引发焦虑的认知，比如'天啊，要是这件事发生了怎么办？那件事发生了怎么办？'

If you inject anxiety provoking cognitions, oh my God, what if this happens and what if that happens?

当你沿着这条充满不确定性和恐惧的道路走下去，就会把你引向更焦虑的方向。

And you go down that path of uncertainty and fear, well, that leads you to more of the anxious route.

而如果你用创伤性记忆和痛苦经历的提醒来填充这个循环，你也可能被推向创伤的深渊。

And if you are filling that loop with traumatic memories and reminders of really painful experiences, you can get pushed towards trauma too.

因此，这是一个横跨我们社会中许多真正严重病症的过程。

So it is a process that cuts across many different really serious conditions that we grapple with in society.

但我也想向听众们澄清：经历内心絮语并不意味着你患有上述任何疾病。

But I want to also be clear to folks who are listening that if you experience chatter, that does not mean you have any of those disorders.

如果你经历过内心絮语，朋友们，欢迎来到人类的共同体验，因为我们大多数人都会时不时经历这种情况。

If you experience chatter, welcome to the human condition, my friends, because most of us do at times.

只是我们通常不会像某些临床群体那样，经历得那么强烈或持久。

And so we often don't experience it as intensely or for long stretches of time, which tends to characterize some of those clinical groups.

我想稍作休息，感谢我们的赞助商Function。

I'd like to take a quick break and thank one of our sponsors Function.

最近在寻找最全面的实验室检测方案后，我成为了Function的会员。

I recently became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.

虽然我一直是血液检测的拥护者，但我真正想找到的是一个更深入的项目，能综合分析血液、尿液和唾液，全面了解我的心脏健康、激素水平、免疫系统调节、代谢功能、维生素矿物质状态以及其他影响整体健康与活力的关键指标。

While I've long been a fan of blood testing, I really wanted to find a more in-depth program for analyzing blood, urine and saliva to get a full picture of my heart health, my hormone status, my immune system regulation, my metabolic function, my vitamin and mineral status, and other critical areas of my overall health and vitality.

Function不仅能检测100多项关乎身心健康的关键生物标志物，还会分析这些结果并提供顶尖医生对您检测结果的解读。

Function not only provides testing of over a 100 biomarkers key to physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors on your results.

举例来说，在我使用Function的首次检测中，就发现血液中有两项汞含量偏高。

For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had two high levels of mercury in my blood.

这完全出乎我的意料。

This was totally surprising to me.

在做测试之前我完全不知道。

Had no idea prior to taking the test.

Function不仅帮我检测出这个问题，还提供了由医学博士指导的见解，告诉我如何最好地降低汞含量，包括限制金枪鱼摄入（因为我之前吃了很多金枪鱼），同时努力多吃绿叶蔬菜，并补充NAC和乙酰半胱氨酸——这两种物质都能支持谷胱甘肽的生成和解毒过程，有效降低了我的汞含量。

Function not only helped me detect this, but offered medical doctor informed insights on how to best reduce those mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption because I had been eating a lot of tuna while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC and acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification and worked to reduce my mercury levels.

像这样全面的实验室检测对健康至关重要。

Comprehensive lab testing like this is so important for health.

尽管我已经做了多年检测，但一直觉得过程过于复杂且费用昂贵。

And while I've been doing it for years, I've always found it to be overly complicated and expensive.

Function给我留下了深刻印象，无论是检测过程的便捷性，还是检测的全面性和可操作性都令人赞叹。我最近加入了他们的顾问委员会，非常高兴他们能赞助本节目。

I've been so impressed by Function, both at the level of ease of use that is getting the tests done, as well as how comprehensive and how actionable the tests are that I recently joined their advisory board and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.

如果你想尝试Function，请访问functionhealth.comhuberman。

If you'd like to try Function, go to functionhealth.comhuberman.

Function目前有超过25万人在等待名单上，但他们为Huberman Lab的听众提供了早期访问权限。

Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman Lab listeners.

重申一下，访问functionhealth.com/huberman即可获得Function的早期体验资格。

Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to function.

如果现在需要重点强调（稍后再讨论其他方法），对抗chatter的最佳方法是什么？

If you had to highlight for now, and we'll get back to others in a moment, the best, maybe one or two ways to combat chatter.

嗯。

Yeah.

那些方法具体是什么呢？

What would those be?

嗯，让我分享几个我个人使用的方法，因为就像我们尝试调节各种不同的情绪体验时，不同的工具在不同情况下对不同的人效果各异。

Well, that's Let me tell you about a couple of things that I do personally, because like as we try to regulate lots of different emotional experiences, different tools work for different people in different situations.

在我写《Chatter》和深入研究情绪调节这个更广泛的领域时，我介绍了多达二十多种基于科学的工具。

There are upwards of two dozen or more science based tools that I covered when I wrote Chatter, when I got into Shift, the broader train of regulating your emotions.

实际上还有更多工具可供选择。

There are even more tools out there.

所以我不想假设对我有效的工具对每个人都适用。

So I don't want to presume that the tools that work for me are going to work for everyone.

当面对内心杂音时，我的第一道防线是两种疏离工具。

My first line of defense when it comes to chatter are two distancing tools.

当我使用'疏离'这个术语时，我指的不是单纯的逃避。

So when I'm using the term distancing, what I'm talking about is not avoidance per se.

我们稍后应该再谈谈逃避这个话题。

We should talk about avoidance later.

但我所说的'疏离'，是指能够退后一步，从更客观的角度审视自己的能力。

But what I'm talking about when I say distancing is the ability to step back and view myself from a slightly more objective perspective.

事实证明，有许多不同的策略可以实现这一点。

And it turns out there are many different tactics that exist for doing this.

我发现语言是一种非常强大的策略。

One tactic that I find very powerful is language.

我可以调整用来指代自己的措辞。

So I can manipulate the words I use to refer to myself.

我经常使用自己的名字和第二人称代词'你'来思考问题。

So I will often use my name and the second person pronoun you to try to think through a problem.

伊森，你打算如何处理这种情况？

Ethan, how are you going to manage this situation?

想想我们使用'你'这类词时，就像在语言上对别人指指点点。

If you think about when we use words like you, they are the verbal equivalent of pointing a finger at someone else.

当你用名字和'你'来解决问题时，它自动转换了你的视角。

When you use your name and you to work through a problem, it's automatically switching your perspective.

这让你像给别人提建议一样与自己对话。

It's getting you to relate to yourself like you're giving advice to someone else.

事实证明这是一个非常强大的工具。

And it turns out that's a really powerful tool.

因为我们知道关于人类的一个事实是：给别人提建议比接受同样的建议要容易得多。

Because one of the things we know about human beings is we are much better at giving advice to others than we are taking that advice ourselves.

你有过这种经历吗，安德鲁？

Have you ever experienced this, Andrew?

天啊，没有。

Gosh, no.

是的，当然。

Yes, of course.

绝对有。

Absolutely.

我是说，当我们处于观察状态时，我们的视角会比内省时清晰得多——除非我真正投入几分钟或几小时，基本上像某种冥想那样，就像我们之前讨论的完整句子构建探索一样，只是向内探索并真正对自己说：好吧，让我们就此展开对话。

I mean, our optics are just much clearer when we're in observation than when we're internally, unless I find that I dedicate some real minutes or hours, basically a sort of meditation, not unlike the complete sentence construction exploration that we're talking about before, just going inward and really saying, okay, let's have a conversation about this.

没错。

Yeah.

在那里与自己对话，这总能引出一个显而易见的真相。

And having a conversation with myself in there, and that always leads to an obvious truth.

是啊。

Yeah.

或者有时是一个我尚未明确的决策节点，但它会引向某个感觉像是前进的方向。

Or sometimes a decision node that isn't clear to me yet, but it leads someplace that feels like forward.

嗯。

Yeah.

但你正在采取特殊步骤，让自己能够遵循你给别人提出的建议。

But you're taking special steps to be able to align yourself with the advice that you would give to someone else.

就像反射性动作一样，有时我们会绊倒，对吧？

Like reflexively, sometimes we stumble, right?

哦，绝对是的。

Oh, absolutely.

我是说，我们分散注意力的方式有那么多，这就是我稍后想问的，但我现在就抓住这个机会说吧。

I mean, the number of different ways that we can distract ourselves, this is what I was going to ask in a few moments, but I'll take the opportunity now.

我在想，今天我们讨论这个话题时，社交媒体最强大的诱惑之一是否就是其滚动浏览的特性——几乎不费吹灰之力，我们就能拿起设备，滑动浏览图片和视频，它会根据我们在某些页面的停留时长感知我们的兴趣，从而更新推送的内容和话题。

I am wondering as we're talking about this today, if one of the more powerful hooks of social media is the scroll aspect, that with essentially zero effort, we can pick up a device and scroll through images and movies, and it will update us according to update the imagery and topics, of course, according to what it senses as our dwell times on certain pages.

突然间，我们就不必思考自己脑海中的想法了。

And all of a sudden we don't have to think about what's in our head.

是啊。

Yeah.

我父亲过去常把上网冲浪（那时候还是这种说法）和刷社交媒体比作一种认知口香糖。

My dad used to refer to surfing the internet, because at that time it was that, and scrolling social media as kind of a cognitive chewing gum.

它让我们保持忙碌，却提供不了任何真正的营养。

It keeps us busy, but it doesn't provide any real nutrition.

嗯，你知道，这很有意思。

Well, you know, it's interesting.

如果回溯到Facebook刚出现的时候，它早期用来激励用户贡献文字信息的提示之一

If you go back to when Facebook first came on the scene, one of the early prompts that it would use to get people to contribute textual information to.

你还记得是什么吗？

Do you remember what this was?

你此刻在想什么？

What is on your mind?

所以系统会提示你分享此刻的想法。

So you would be cued to share what is on your mind.

而且，某种程度上你可以把各种社交媒体视为为人们提供了一个放大内心声音的巨大扩音器。

And, you know, in some ways you could think of various forms of social media as providing people with a giant megaphone for their inner voice.

对吧？

Right?

它实际上是在问你，或者说曾经问过，你此刻在想什么？

It's literally asking you, or it did, what is on your mind right now?

所以这是关于发布内容的。

So that's in terms of posting.

发布。

Posting.

但就消费信息而言，我认为社交媒体上的大多数人似乎更多是消费者而非创作者。

But in terms of consuming information, which I think most people on social media seem to be consumers more than creators.

我是说，这让我觉得很神奇，你知道，我拿起手机，这部特定手机上装有Instagram和X应用，而其他手机都没有这些应用，这样就与...

I mean, it's remarkable to me how I can, you know, pick up the phone and I have a specific phone with Instagram and X on it and those apps are not on any other phones, so that it's segregated from

是啊。

Yeah.

聪明。

Smart.

如果有人给我发推文或Instagram帖子，我不会打开看。

If somebody sends me a tweet or sends me an Instagram post on, I'm not gonna open it.

我在那些手机上打不开。

I can't open it on those phones.

没错。

Right.

这样很有帮助

And that's helped

很多。

a lot.

我们稍后再讨论这个，因为这其实也在调整你的空间使用方式，这是另一个我认为未被充分利用的工具。

We should come back to that because that's also modifying your spaces, which is another tool that I think is underutilized.

所以我们也应该谈谈这个。

So we should talk about that too.

我们肯定会提到这个的。

We'll definitely touch on that.

我发现的是，我会说，好吧，我要花六分钟。

What I find is, I'll say, okay, I'm gonna take six minutes.

现在离整点还有六分钟。

It's six minutes till the hour.

这需要六分钟。

It takes six minutes.

是啊。

Yeah.

而令人难以置信的是，六分钟过得有多快——这才是最惊人的。

And what's incredible is how fast six minutes seems to That's go what's so striking.

这很显著，但并不总是坏事。

It's remarkable and not always bad.

我们经常谈论社交媒体，仿佛它对社会有事实上的危害。

So we often talk about social media like it is a de facto harm to society.

社交媒体的一些负面特征已被充分记录。

There are negative features of social media that are well documented.

但我认为它也有一些可取之处。

There are also some, I would argue, redemptive qualities to it.

我举个个人例子：有时睡前想放松，整天都在思考，

I'll give you one of my personal ones, which is, sometimes like to unwind before bed, I'm thinking all day.

我就想看些搞笑短视频。

I want to just watch some ridiculously funny short reels.

对，浣熊视频之类的。

Yeah, raccoon videos.

是啊，我妻子会看着我问：你在笑什么？

Yeah, I mean, my wife looks over at me, she's like, what are you laughing at?

然后有时我会给她看，她就问，你为什么会对着这个笑？

And then sometimes I show her and she goes, why are you laughing at that?

对吧？

Right?

但你知道，算法已经学会了我喜欢看哪些搞笑视频，不过我不会告诉你具体是哪些。

But you know, the algorithm has learned the specific kinds of funny videos that I like and no, I'm not going to tell you what they are.

这确实能减轻压力。

And it just lightens the load.

所以这是我非常策略性地使用社交媒体，在特定时间将情绪引导到我想要的方向。

And so that's a way that I'm using social media very strategically to shift my emotions in a direction I want them to be shifted at a certain time.

我认为当我们谈论社交媒体和情感生活时，我们面临的真正挑战是如何学会利用这些数字环境为我们服务，而不是被其控制。

I think when we talk about social media and our emotional lives, the real challenge we face is how to learn how to navigate these new digital environments in ways that serve us rather than serve against us and undermine our goals.

我们基本上是在没有任何规则手册的情况下被扔进了社交媒体。

We basically got thrown into social media without any rule book.

我们就是实验品。

We're the experiment.

我们就是这场实验。

We're the experiment.

但仔细想想，这是个全新的环境。

But if you think about it, it's a new environment.

我们出生在这个物质世界，从我们能够理解事物（甚至可能更早）开始，父母和照顾者就在教导我们如何在这个空间里有效社交。

We were born into this physical world and our parents, our caretakers from the time we were able to understand things and probably before, they were teaching us, they're socializing us how to navigate this space profitably.

不能像《蝇王》那样把我们直接扔进这个世界让我们自己摸索。

Don't just like Lord of the Flies throw us into the world and let us kind of figure it out.

如果没有接受过我们得到的那些指导，结果可能不会像现在这么好。

Outcomes wouldn't be likely as good as they are for us if we didn't have the kind of instruction that we receive.

我们现在才刚开始建立知识体系来理解：哪些是健康、有害或无害的社交媒体使用方式。

And we're only now developing that knowledge base to understand, hey, here are the healthy versus harmful versus benign ways of navigating social media.

我现在谈论社交媒体时，好像这是个单一环境。

And I'm talking about social media now, like it's this unitary environment.

当然不同的社交媒体应用都有各自的规范和游戏规则。

Different social media applications of course have their own norms and rules of the games.

你可以把它们想象成不同的小国家。

You could think of them as like little different countries.

它们都有自己的微观文化，你需要学会如何适应。

They have their own little micro cultures that you wanna learn how to navigate.

科学家们正忙着研究它们如何运作，但这很复杂。

And scientists are really busy trying to understand how they function, but it's tricky.

之所以复杂，是因为创作者按个按钮就能改变这些应用的运行规则。

And it's tricky because creators can change how these applications govern by a press of a button.

对吧？

Right?

你可以改变算法的工作方式，然后某种程度上又得重新开始。

You could change the way the algorithm works and then you've got to start over to some extent.

我生活中有人告诉我，他们半夜醒来会看手机的主要原因之一，是相比与脑海中喷涌的思绪搏斗，手机能提供一种非常舒缓的分散注意力的方式。

I've been told that by people in my life that one of the main reasons they get onto their phone in the middle of the night if they happen to wake up is that it allows a very soothing distraction compared to trying to wrestle with the, you know, fire hose of thoughts in their head.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且，确实有点像你描述那些不愿透露给我们的搞笑视频的方式。

And that, yeah, it's kind of like the way you describe these funny videos that you won't disclose to us.

听起来像是，你知道的，通常涉及

That sounds like, you know They typically involve

哦，

Oh,

好的。

okay.

知道了。

Noted.

我们过去常听说人们下班后会喝一杯，就像是为了缓解压力，我觉得社交媒体对很多人来说正在起到类似的作用。

We used to hear that people, you know, would have a drink after work to just kind of like, you know, take the edge off or I something like feel like social media is doing that for a lot of people.

是啊。

Yeah.

你描述的方式正好符合这个观点。

The way you describe it fits with that idea.

根据昼夜节律健康研究的所有证据，我确信在大多数夜晚11点到凌晨4点之间应该避免看手机，虽然没人能做到。但如果你半夜醒来，最糟糕的事情之一就是拿起手机刷社交媒体。

And that I certainly believe that from everything we know about the circadian health literature, that you want to avoid looking at your phone between the hours of 11PM and 4AM most nights, nobody's But that if you wake up in the middle of the night, one of the worst things you can do is get on your phone and start scrolling social media.

但我猜人们还是会这么做，因为在黑暗中独自面对自己的思绪感觉更糟。

But I'm guessing people do it because it feels even worse to just sit there with your thoughts in the dark.

虽然有点跑题，但这完美地转回到你之前问我的问题——关于对抗内心杂音的工具建议，而我正在分享我自己使用的方法。

It's a shifter, but this is a perfect segue back to, you know, you asked me about the tools that you recommend for fighting chatter, and I'm telling you about the ones I use.

所以当我察觉到内心杂音开始酝酿时，会自动使用的第二个工具。

So there's a second tool that I will use automatically when I detect the chatter brewing.

我称之为我的2A。

And I call it my two a.

内心杂音应对策略。

Chatter strategy.

我称之为我的2A。

And I call it my two a.

M。

M.

我将它称为我的2AM心理对话策略，因为大约每四到六周，我都会心满意足地上床睡觉。

Chatter strategy because every seemingly like four to six weeks I will go to bed happy and content.

然后我会在凌晨2点醒来，感觉一切都在快速崩溃。

And then I'll wake up at 2AM and like it is all going to hell really fast.

你通常几点睡觉？

What time do you typically go to sleep?

通常在11点到11点半左右。

Usually around eleven, 11:30.

有意思。

Interesting.

是的，这是许多人面临的普遍问题，确实有一些工具比如长呼气呼吸法之类的方法效果明显。

Yeah, this is a common problem for a lot of people and there are some tools like long exhale breathing and things that clearly work.

很久以前就做了个决定。

Long ago made a decision.

我拒绝相信凌晨2点到5点之间产生的任何想法。

I refuse to believe any thought that occurs between the hours of 2AM and 5AM.

我就是拒绝相信。

I just refuse.

我不相信这些想法。

I don't believe it.

就好像有人在我脑海里对我说谎一样。

It's as if somebody is lying to me in my head.

有人可能会说，也许这才是真相浮现的时刻，因为你的前额叶不太擅长压制这些潜意识的想法，当然，这也有道理。

And one could argue, well, maybe that's where the truth is coming out because your forebrain is not so good at suppressing these unconscious thoughts and sure, all good.

但正如你指出的，这些想法无论是积极还是消极的，通常都难以实际运用。

But as you point out, they are rarely the kind of thoughts that one can work with, positive or negative.

所以我使用的工具其实隐含着激活类似你描述的这种理念。

So the tool that I use actually implicitly activates an idea like the one you are describing.

所以在凌晨2点当那些负面思绪来袭时——顺便说，你说这种情况很常见。

So at 2AM when the chatter strikes and by the way, you say like, oh, this is common.

这简直比常见还要普遍。

This is more than common.

当我向观众演讲时，你知道，多年来面对成千上万的人，我问他们，嘿，你们有没有在凌晨两点胡思乱想过？

When I present to audiences and, you know, thousands and thousands of people over over the years and I ask, hey, you ever you ever get 2AM chatter?

也许是凌晨两点半？

Maybe 02:30AM?

所有人都举起了手。

All the hands go up.

我不想说这是普遍困扰，但这是一个极其常见的问题，人们都在与之斗争，就像夜晚的胡思乱想。

This is a I don't wanna say universal affliction, but it is an incredibly common problem that people struggle with, like the chatter at night.

所以我做的是使用一种叫做心理时间旅行的技巧。

So what I do is I use something called mental time travel.

心理时间旅行到未来。

Mental time travel into the future.

我会问自己，通常我会用自己的名字来做这件事，所以我结合了另一种疏离工具——远距离自我对话。

And what I do is I ask myself, and I typically use my own name to do it, so I'm blending another distancing tool, distance self talk.

我说，伊森，明天早上你会怎么看待这件事？

I say, Ethan, how are you going to feel about this tomorrow morning?