女性最有效的力量训练、有氧运动与营养指南 | Lauren Colenso-Semple博士

所以，如果你只做每组四到五次，那么你重复动作的次数就不足以真正熟练掌握技巧。

And so if you're only doing sets of four or sets of five, then you're not repeating the movement enough to get really proficient with the technique.

因此，我希望这些人从适中的重复次数范围开始。

So I'd love for those people to start in a moderate rep range.

我认为，如果你超过这个范围，那么出现动作变形和受伤风险的可能性会更大。

I think also if you go beyond that, then there's more of a chance of kind of form failure and injury risk.

所以，在我们开始探索那些更低或更高的重复次数范围之前，我们希望先在适中的重复次数范围内变得非常熟练。

And so we want to be really proficient in the moderate rep range before we start exploring those lower or higher rep ranges.

你认为对于女性或男性来说，每周变化重复次数范围是否有价值？

Do you think it's valuable for women to vary the repetition or men to vary the repetition ranges like week by week.

比如，好吧，这周我打算所有动作都做6到10次，或者我打算所有动作都做3到5次，持续三周，然后切换到6到8次，持续三周，接着再做10到15次，持续三周，如此循环。

Like, okay, this week I'm going to train six to 10 reps on everything, or I'm going to go three to five reps on everything for three weeks, then I'm going to switch to six to eight for three weeks, and then I'm going to go, you know, 10 to 15 for three weeks and then repeat.

对于增肌和力量训练来说，坚持一种方式然后系统性地每三周变化一次，是否有已知的价值？

Any Is known value for hypertrophy and strength training to doing it, sticking with one thing and then systematically varying every, say, three weeks?

你可以那样做。

You can do it that way.

我更喜欢把它结合到一周内进行。

I prefer to combine it into the week.

比如说，如果我们每周做两次深蹲，那么可以安排一天做低次数组，另一天做中等次数组。

So if let's say we're doing squats twice a week, then let's do a lower rep set day and a moderate rep set day.

你可以对所有主要的复合举重动作都采用这种方式。

And you can do that for all of your kind of main compound lifts.

这样既能增加一些变化，也意味着你拥有数据，可以确保自己在这些不同的次数范围内同步取得进步。

And that adds some variety, but also means you have the data to make sure that you're progressing in each of those rep ranges kind of simultaneously.

而如果我们先做三周的每组六次，然后换成每组十二次，那我就没有一个基准点来判断自己是否在进步了。

Whereas if we were to do sets of six for three weeks and then move to sets of 12, then I don't really have that anchor point for am I making progress?

因为现在我是用另一个重复次数范围在做那个动作。

Because now I'm doing that lift in another rep range.

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If you're a regular listener of the Huberman Lab Podcast, you've no doubt heard me talk about the vitamin mineral probiotic drink AG1.

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And if you've been on the fence about it, now's an awesome time to give it a try.

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For the next few weeks, AG1 is giving away a full supplement package with your first subscription to AG1.

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They're giving away a free bottle of vitamin D3K2, a bottle of omega-three fish oil capsules, and a sample pack of the new sleep formula AGZ, which by the way is now the only sleep supplement I take.

效果非常好。

It's fantastic.

服用 AGZ 后，我的睡眠质量好得不可思议。

My sleep on AGZ is out of this world good.

AGZ 是一种饮品，因此无需服用大量药片。

AGZ is a drink, so it eliminates the need to take a lot of pills.

味道很棒。

It tastes great.

正如我所说，它让我睡得非常好，醒来时比以往任何时候都更精神焕发。

And like I said, it has me sleeping incredibly well, waking up more refreshed than ever.

我非常喜欢它。

I absolutely love it.

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Again, this is a limited time offer, so make sure to go to drinkag1.com/huberman to get started today.

刚才你提到了一点，我非常感谢你这么说，因为我认为这一点从未像你表达得这么清晰过。

A moment ago, you said something, and I'm so grateful that you said this because I don't think it's ever been communicated as clearly as you did.

我想再深入探讨一下这一点。

And I would just wanna double click on it.

人们通常认为大重量训练组——我指的不是1到3次重复的训练。

There's this assumption that heavier sets, and I'm not referring to one to three reps.

我的意思是，假设在5到8次重复的范围内，最后几次重复接近力竭或完全力竭，它们不知何故比高重复次数组更危险。

I mean, let's say in the five to eight repetition range, final repetitions close to failure or failure, that somehow they are more dangerous than high repetition sets.

根据我的经验，15到25次的高重复次数，尤其是在复合动作上，导致人们受伤的频率至少和重量训练一样高。

In my experience, high repetitions from 15 to 25, especially on compound movements, get people hurt at least as often as the heavy stuff.

我认为这是因为，我猜是这样的，在非常高的重复次数组中很难集中注意力并保持完美的动作形式。

And I think it's because it's, I'm guessing here, but that it's hard to concentrate and generate perfect form on a very high repetition set.

而复合动作正是容易受伤的地方。

And compound movements are where you can get hurt.

你可能会在孤立动作中受伤，但多关节动作做20次。

You can get hurt on isolation movements, but multi joint movements done for 20 reps.

我的意思是，除非你精神上真的高度集中，否则根据我的观察，人们往往就是在那种情况下受伤的。

I mean, unless you're really locked in mentally, that's often where people get injured is my observation.

是的，我认为这是一个机会均等的游戏。

Yeah, I think it's an equal opportunity game.

你知道，我们确实需要确保动作姿势正确，并且根据你正在进行的举重动作，在适当的情况下要有保护者或训练伙伴。

You know, we really need to make sure that form is dialed in and that you have a spotter or a training partner if appropriate, depending on the lift that you're doing.

因为，比如说，如果你在做高次数的硬拉，你确实有更多机会以某种方式举起重量，结果就扭伤了某个部位。

Because if you're doing high rep deadlifts, for example, you do have more opportunities to lift the weight in such a way that you just tweak something.

而有时，如果人们在做那些次数较少、重量较大的组，他们更可能会花点时间调整、重新准备、锁定姿势，然后再进行下一次重复。

And sometimes if people are doing those lower rep, heavier sets, they're more likely to kind of take that moment, reset, lock in, and then perform the next rep.

而且，当你使用的负荷不需要你这样做时，更容易匆忙完成一组动作，而不强迫自己重新调整并专注于那些动作要领。

And it's a bit easier to rush the set and not kind of force yourself to reset and focus on those form cues when you're using a load that doesn't require you to do so.

谢谢。

Thank you.

是的，最近网上关于重重量与轻重量的争论相当激烈，尤其是针对年长者。

Yes, recently there was a pretty avid debate online about heavy weights versus not heavy weights, especially for older folks.

既然我现在50岁了，我就把自己归入这一类。

And since now I'm 50, I place myself in that category.

我非常支持低次数训练，但不是三次或更少。

I'm a big fan of low repetitions, but not three or less.

但有些同龄人认为，不推荐五到八次的训练范围是非常危险的。

But let's just say some of my peers feel that that's super dangerous not to recommend, you know, five to eight repetition range.

也许有些人天生更擅长集中注意力，专注于完成次数较少的规范动作，而有些人则可能非常擅长。

It could be that some people are just better at locking everything in and getting really focused and doing a proper set when there's fewer repetitions than, and some people might be great at.

我明白，做20次硬拉时，每一次动作都完美无瑕。

I realize that doing 20 repetitions of stiff legged deadlifts and every repetition is just beautiful.

但难道没有这种观点：随着组数进行，一些较小的辅助肌肉会疲劳，从而增加受伤风险吗？

But isn't there the idea that some of the smaller supporting muscles can fatigue as a set goes on and make one susceptible to injury?

这是真的，还是只是健身房里的说法？

Is that, or is that just gym?

这难道只是健身圈里的伪科学吗？

Is that just like jock science?

无论如何，我们都需要确保充分热身并采用正确的技术。

No matter what, we need to make sure that we're appropriately warmed up and that we're using proper technique.

所以，如果你试图去做一次最大重量或一组三次，却没有充分热身，我会很担心。

So if you try to go do a one rep max or a set of three and you're not properly warmed up, I'm concerned.

但假设其他条件都相同，那么根据具体动作，我们还必须考虑整体系统性疲劳，甚至心血管系统的疲劳——如果你做30次深蹲，可能在腿力耗尽之前就已经喘不上气了，这会给训练带来另一种心理挑战。

But assuming all else is equal, then depending on the exercise, we also have to think of overall systemic fatigue, even fatigue on the cardiovascular system, if you're doing 30 squats, you might be out of breath before your legs give out, and that can introduce another mental challenge to the set.

说得好。

Excellent point.

我之前没考虑到这一点。

I hadn't considered that.

我也不喜欢做20次深蹲。

I also don't enjoy 20 repetition squats.

不过在做腰带深蹲时，我发现自己获得了一些个人成长，可以说是精神层面的个人成长。

Although on the belt squat, I'm finding some, let's just say some personal growth through them, mental personal growth.

做高次数的腿部训练完全是另一回事。

It's a whole different thing to do, high repetition legwork.

这就像，而且它非常考验心血管能力。

It's like a, and it is very cardiovascular.

说到这个，我认为现在大多数人，无论男女，都明白心血管锻炼也很重要。

Speaking of which, I think most people nowadays, men and women understand that cardiovascular exercise is important as well.

而且我意识到这个说法会让耐力运动员不爽，因为到底什么是心血管锻炼呢？

And I realize that term pisses off the endurance athletes because what is cardiovascular exercise?

我指的是那种可以持续进行六分钟或更长时间、能让心率提升等等的活动。

I'm talking about something that you can repeat for six minutes or more continuously gets heart rate elevated and so on.

我想大多数人会把这看作是有氧运动。

I think most people think of this as cardio.

对于每周进行两到三天抗阻训练的人，你建议如何安排有氧运动？

How do you recommend scheduling cardio with the two or three day per week resistance training?

在特定训练日，有氧运动安排在力量训练之前或之后，这有影响吗？

Does it matter if somebody does it before or after their weight training on a given day?

他们可以在同一天做吗？

Can they do it on the same day?

他们是不是最好在其他日子做？

Would they be better off doing it on other days?

有什么指导原则吗？

What are the guidelines?

所谓干扰效应或联合训练问题的概念，源于你同时有耐力训练和力量训练的目标。

So the concept of kind of the interference effect or issues with concurrent training come from the idea that you have both endurance training goals and resistance training goals.

如果你把这两种训练安排得太接近，耐力训练可能会削弱部分肌肉肥大适应效果。

And that if you perform those too close together, that the endurance training might blunt some of that hypertrophic adaptation.

如果我们进行非常高强度的训练，并且把它们安排得非常紧密，这种情况确实可能发生。

We see that could be true if you're doing very high volume work and you're stacking it very close together.

因此，如果你的目标是增肌或增强力量，我们建议先进行力量训练。

So assuming your hypertrophy or strength is the goal, then we would want to perform that first.

如果可能的话，最好将两者间隔数小时。

And if possible, separate them by at least several hours.

但我们真的不会遇到真正的干扰效应，除非你进行了大量的训练，比如在做腿部训练之前先进行冲刺。

But we really don't run into true interference effect type results unless we're doing tons of training and, you know, you're doing your sprints before you do your leg workout.

我会避免这样做。

I would avoid that.

我认为我们还需要考虑，我们是为了提升耐力训练目标，还是仅仅为了健康而保持体能。

I think we also need to think about whether we have endurance training goals or we're just trying to be fit for health.

大多数听这个的人可能都想变得更强壮，想在特定肌肉上增加肌肉，可能也想着，稍后我们会提到，不要刻意在其他肌肉上增加肌肉，而是保持足够瘦削并具备良好的体能。

Most people listening to this probably would like to get stronger, probably would like to add muscle to specific muscles and maybe have it in mind, we'll get here in a moment, to not deliberately not add muscle to other muscles and to be what they consider lean enough and that want to be fit.

我总是会想到日常生活的基本需求。

I always think of the general life requirements.

比如，你希望能够提起自己的行李或背包。

Like you want to be able to carry your suitcase or bag.

如果你需要赶飞机，能跑得动而不至于气喘吁吁，能搬东西而不受伤，必要时能冲刺，玩一场飞盘、足球或排球，野餐时打个非正式比赛，或者去远足，也许背上一个孩子，或者如果没有孩子，就背个背包。

And if you have to run for the plane that you can do it without coughing up a lung, pick things up and not get injured, sprint if you need to, play a game of Frisbee or soccer or volleyball, a pickup game at the picnic or something, go for a hike, maybe with a kid on your back, maybe with a backpack, if you don't have kids.

我认为这种能力——比如周日能轻松背个包去远足，而不需要专门为此训练——才是关键。

I think these sort of like just ability to go out on a Sunday and take a long hike with a pack without having to train for it.

能够冲刺赶飞机，到达时还不至于累垮。

The ability to sprint for the plane without dying when you arrive there.

对我来说，这类事情才是真实生活的衡量标准。

These kinds of things to me are the real life metrics.

我觉得这就是大多数人想要的。

I feel like that's what most people want.

当然，也有人想跑马拉松、成为力量举运动员，就像亚历克斯·霍诺尔德那样，你知道的，他不用任何绳子就爬上了台北的一座塔。

And then of course, some people want to run marathons and be power lifters and, you know, Alex Honnold just, you know, scaled a tower in Taipei without any rope.

所以，你知道，范围很广，但我认为我所描述的情况，就是大多数人的现状。

So, you know, there's a huge range, but I think what I described, I think is where most of us are at.

你认为大多数女性处于什么状态？

What do you think most women are at?

举重非常重要，因为我们的生活方式中没有与之等效的有趣活动。

Lifting weights is so important because we don't have a lifestyle fun equivalent activity.

但我认为，如果我们更喜欢打网球、和朋友骑自行车、徒步旅行，或者其他既锻炼身体又令人愉悦、更可能持续进行的活动，那么我们并不都需要去慢跑或在椭圆机上锻炼一小时。

But I don't think we all need to be going for a jog or spending an hour on the elliptical if we prefer playing tennis or going for bike rides with friends or going for hikes or something that is physically active and enjoyable and that we will be more likely to do consistently.

因此，这一点对很多人来说其实是一种解脱，因为他们会觉得：哦，那我就不必再为每周安排这些有氧运动而操心了。

So there is an element of that that can be really freeing for people because they think, Oh, well, then I don't need to worry about adding these structured cardio sessions in my week.

我只需要去做那些和朋友一起进行的户外活动，既享受其中，又能从中获益。

I'm just going to do those outdoor physical activities with friends that I'm enjoying and also benefiting from.

关于步行，有什么数据吗？

What are the data on walking?

我听说每天走7000步左右是个不错的目标。

I've heard 7,000 steps or so per day is a good number to shoot for.

我听说10000步这个数字只是随便提出来的，就像8小时间歇性禁食也是随便提出来的一样。

I heard that the 10,000 number was just kind of thrown out there the same way that eight hours of intermittent fasting was just kind of thrown out there.

我们回头再谈这个。

We'll get back to that.

对于女性来说，步行有多重要、多有益？

How important and helpful is walking for women in particular?

我更愿意把步行看作一种不属于结构化锻炼的活动。

I like to think of walking as something you can do that is not structured exercise.

所以我们并不一定在想着达成步数目标。

And so we're not thinking about meeting a step count necessarily.

你可以这么做，但那些专注于步数的人通常只坚持几个月就会放弃，因为过度 obsess 地追踪这个指标会让人感到厌倦。

You can do that, but people who focus on something like step counts usually do so for a few months and then stop because being kind of obsessive about tracking that metric gets a little old.

重要的是，不仅要考虑达成某个单一目标，比如每周锻炼分钟数、步数或心率目标。

And it's important to think not only about hitting one target, whether it's minutes of exercise per week or step count or heart rate goal.

但你一天中的其他时间都在做什么呢？

But what are we doing for the other hours in the day?

所以我认为，对于一个原本完全不活跃的人，从很少的步数增加到每天4000、5000、6000步，确实会带来巨大的益处。

So I think somebody who isn't active at all, going from doing very few steps to getting it up to 4,000, 5,000, 6,000 steps, yes, we're going to see a huge benefit.

但如果你本身已经通过多种方式保持身体活跃，并且整天都在活动，而不只是专注于步数，那么步数这个指标就相对没那么重要了，因为你已经获得了对健康有益的总体活动量。

But if you're somebody who is physically active in a variety of ways and you are moving throughout the day, not necessarily focusing purely on steps, then that metric of step count is a little bit less useful because we are getting in that overall activity that is going to be beneficial for health.

所以我理解的是，如果一位女性每周去健身房两到三次，按照你描述的方式进行力量训练，并且还参与一些她喜欢的户外或室内社交类运动，那么除非有耐力目标或短跑比赛目标，否则无需特意增加有氧运动。

So what I'm hearing is if a woman is in the gym two or three days per week, lifting the way that you described and has some outdoor or indoor social sport type activities that she enjoys, there's no need to specifically add cardio unless there's an endurance goal or a sprint competition goal.

对吗？

Is that right?

是的。

Yeah.

而且我认为很多人增加有氧运动是为了减肥目标。

And I think a lot of people are adding cardio for weight loss goals.

这有点像是在做无用功，因为仅仅通过增加运动带来的减脂效果，相比调整饮食所能看到的减脂效果，会相当令人失望。

And that is a bit of a fool's errand because the fat loss that we will get from just adding exercise is pretty disappointing relative to the fat loss that we will see when we adjust our nutrition.

那么，为了那令人担忧的最大摄氧量（VO2 max），将心率提升到接近最大值呢？

What about getting up toward max heart rate for sake of the dreaded VO2 max?

不，我没说'令人畏惧的'。

No, I don't say dreaded.

我是说，我只是觉得这很有趣，因为你知道，五年前根本没人谈论心率变异性和最大摄氧量。

Mean, I just think it's funny because, you know, five years ago, no one was talking about heart rate variability and VO2 max.

我的意思是，再次强调，我不是想把男性健身或我的个人习惯强加进来，但根据我在播客中学到的知识以及我个人的喜好，我会特意每周至少一次（理想是两次）使用AirDyne自行车或其他设备，在不受伤的情况下以最大或接近最大的强度进行训练，比如三十秒冲刺、三十秒休息、再三十秒冲刺。

I mean, again, I'm not trying to inject male fitness or my routine into it, but by virtue of what I've learned in the course of the podcast and also what I enjoy, I make it a point to get on the AirDyne bike or some other thing I can do at max effort or close to it without getting injured and do, you know, thirty second sprint, thirty second rest, thirty second sprint for at least once a week, ideally twice.

我猜是这样，你来告诉我吧，毕竟你才是这方面的专家。

I'm assuming, and you tell me, you have the credentials here.

我猜想，通过每周让心率大幅提升几分钟，这能给我带来一些独立于抗阻训练的好处。

I'm assuming that by getting my heart rate way, way up for a couple minutes each week, that I'm doing myself some benefit separate from my resistance training.

这是真的吗？因为我不是一个计算卡路里的人，更多是靠直觉感知身体需求，但我看到那些训练结束后显示消耗了100卡路里，这相当于我走过蓝莓篮时随手吃下的100卡路里蓝莓。

Is that true or is it, because I see, I mean, I'm not a calorie counter, kind of intuitive sense of what I need, but I see, you know, at the end of those workouts, it says I burned a 100 calories, which is, you know, I walk, I eat a 100 calories of blueberries in one pass by the blueberry basket.

所以我并不是为了燃烧卡路里而做这些。

So I'm not trying to do it for caloric burn sake.

是的，高强度训练的价值在于时间效率。

Yeah, the value of the really high intensity stuff is time efficiency.

所以，如果我们看看那些对耐力运动的适应，或者如果我们只是广义地说有氧运动，那么你可以通过进行更长时间的中等强度运动来获得这些适应。

So, if we look at those adaptations to endurance exercise, or if we're going to just say cardio broadly, then you can get those by doing more long form moderate intensity.

你也可以通过进行更高强度但时间较短的运动来获得这些适应。

You can also get those by doing higher intensity for shorter amounts of time.

所以这并不是说这种适应有什么神奇之处，而是因为你进行了更高强度的训练，所以能获得更高的效率，而且不需要那么长时间。

So it's not that it's magic in terms of the adaptation, but you're able to get more bang for your buck because you're doing that higher intensity and you don't need to do it for quite as long.

我们来谈谈最近有点棘手的话题，关于激素变化与月经周期以及训练要求之间的关系。

Let's talk about the somewhat barbed wire topic these days about variations in hormones as they relate to the menstrual cycle and training requirements.

关于这一点有很多假设。

There's a lot of assumptions about this.

也有很多推测。

There's a lot of conjecture.

而且我确实相信其中也存在大量纯粹的捏造，倒不一定是因为有人想故意误导，而是我认为没有人像你一样花那么多时间研究这方面的数据。

And I do believe there's also a lot of outright fabrication, not because anyone necessarily wants to mislead, but I don't think anyone has spent as much time with the data on this as you have.

那么，女性是否应该根据月经周期的不同阶段来调整训练方式呢？

So should women train differently depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle?

简短的回答是：不。

The short answer is no.

关于月经周期的讨论是好的。

The conversation around the menstrual cycle is good.

我认为我们讨论这个话题是好的。

I think it's good that we're talking about it.

人们能放心地与教练讨论这件事是好的。

It's good that people feel comfortable discussing it with their coach.

不幸的是，那种认为因为你有月经周期、激素在波动，就需要改变锻炼方式的观点过于简单化，与我们掌握的数据不符。

The unfortunate shift of because you have a menstrual cycle and because hormones are fluctuating, you need to change how you are exercising is way too simplistic and doesn't align with the data that we have.

所以，与其担心自己处于哪个阶段、雌激素是高是低，我建议你真正关注自己的感受，努力训练，坚持训练，循序渐进地训练。

So instead of worrying about whether you're in this phase or that phase or whether estradiol is high or low, I would really focus on how you feel, train hard, train consistently, train progressively.

如果在周期的某个阶段，你出现了月经症状、疲劳或缺乏动力，并且你认为这与月经有关，那么选择跳过一次锻炼、调整当天的训练内容或进行其他形式的运动，都是完全可以的。

If at some point in your cycle, you experience menstrual symptoms or fatigue or a lack of motivation that you relate to menstruation, then having an option to skip a workout or adjust the exercises that you're doing for that workout or do another form of exercise that day is completely fine.

这并不是说你必须咬牙坚持、硬撑下去，但也不意味着因为你来月经或激素水平向某个方向变化，你那天的能力就变差了。

Not saying you have to grind it out, push through, but you are not less capable that day because you have your menstrual period or because the hormone profile has shifted in one direction or another.

我认为，围绕这个话题有一个更广泛的讨论，关于何时应该克服内心的抗拒感，无论是那种普遍的不适感，比如感觉身体不适或睡眠不好，还是是否感到疲惫不堪。

There's a broader conversation around this, I think, about when to push through internal resistance, either just kind of general malaise, like one doesn't feel well or didn't sleep well, whether or not one is feeling run down.

也许我们可以把这个问题纳入关于是否要根据月经周期阶段调整训练方式的讨论中。

Maybe we can kind of tuck that into this conversation about ways to vary training or not vary training according to phase of the menstrual cycle.

假设某人感觉没有像平时那样休息充分，或者没有达到他们期望的休息状态。

Let's say somebody is not feeling as rested as they normally do or would like to.

我这么说是因为人们通常认为需要八小时的睡眠，对吧？

And I say that because people assume you need eight hours of sleep, right?

有的人可能需要八小时，有的人可能需要十小时。

One might need eight, they might need ten.

我睡六个半到七个小时就很好。

I'm fine on six and a half to seven.

我更喜欢八小时，但实际上六个半到七小时，我也没问题。

I prefer eight, but actually six and a half to seven, I'm good.

五小时的话，那就是另一回事了。

Five, that's a whole other issue.

那么，如果女性睡眠时间比她们正常所需的量少了一两个小时，她们是否应该坚持完成当天的训练呢？

So should women push through a day of a workout if they got, you know, maybe an hour or two less than their normal ration of sleep that they need?

或者，如果她们这样做，是否会让自身陷入某种危险之中？

Or are they putting themselves in some sort of danger if they do that?

没有危险。

There's no danger.

你可能会感觉更糟，但主观上的表现衡量标准常常与客观上的表现衡量标准不同，这一点对于月经周期症状以及其他因素也同样适用。

You might feel worse, but subjective measures of performance are different often from objective measures of performance, and that goes for the menstrual cycle symptoms and other factors as well.

所以你可能会去举和上周相同的重量，然后觉得：哇，今天这重量感觉特别重，或者杠铃移动得特别慢，但你还是举起来了。

So you might go in and deadlift the same weight as last week, and you'd say, wow, this feels really heavy or the weight's moving really slow this morning, but you're still lifting it.

所以从客观上看，表现其实是一样的。

So objectively, the performance was the same.

只是你对它的感受不同了。

It's just your experience of what it felt like differs.

今天感觉更吃力了。

It feels harder today.

正如你所说，这可能由多种原因造成。

To your point, that can be the case for a variety of reasons.

我们可能睡眠不足，或者有时差，或者因为工作上的事情感到压力和分心。

We can be underslept or we are jet lagged or we're stressed about something work related and feeling distracted.

有很多原因导致我们不可能每次去健身房都达到百分之百的状态。

There's a lot of reasons why we don't have a 10 out of 10 workout every single time we go to the gym.

所以我认为有理由支持，是的，继续前进，不管怎样先做起来。

So I think there's an argument to be made to, yeah, push forward, just do it anyway.

即使是一次不理想的锻炼，也总比完全不锻炼要好。

Even a subpar workout is better than no workout at all.

根据你的经验和观察，你认为开始进行抗阻训练的女性平均来说会享受这个过程吗？

In your experience and observation, do you think that women who take up resistance training enjoy it on average?

她们是倾向于享受训练本身，还是更享受训练后的感觉？

Do they tend to enjoy it or do they tend to enjoy the feeling afterwards?

你对抗阻训练感觉如何？

How do you feel about resistance training?

我认为这对女性来说尤其有力量，因为，正如我之前提到的，历史上一直存在向女性推销无效计划或鼓励她们不断更换方案的情况。

I think it's particularly powerful for women because, and I alluded to this earlier, there's a history of marketing ineffective programs to women or encouraging them to constantly switch it up.

试试这个新的团体健身课，或者试试这个新的家庭视频锻炼。

Try this new group fitness class or try this new at home video workout.

她们从未真正看到自己希望看到的结果。

And they never really see the results that they are hoping to see.

所以你只是在不断更换计划，感到失望，觉得我投入了这么多努力，我做了该做的事，却没有看到效果。

And so you're just program hopping and disappointed and feeling like I'm putting in all this work, I'm doing the thing and I'm not seeing results.

只要你坚持一个良好的力量训练计划足够长的时间，你不仅会看到身体外观上的变化，因为肌肉增长可以改变你的体脂比例和体型，而且你还会感受到一种随着时间推移而不断进步的成就感。

When you stick to a good resistance training program for long enough, not only do you start to see results in the way that your body looks, because muscle growth can change your body composition and can change your physique, But you also have this empowering feeling of progression over time.

我可以变得更强，可以做得更多，这种进步会让你持续回来训练。

I can get stronger, I can do more, and that keeps you coming back.

这真的非常有激励作用。

It's really motivating.

所以我认为，当你感受到付出的努力得到了回报时，这种感觉会非常强大，也更有可能让你长期坚持下去。

So I think that can be really powerful that you feel like you're getting something out of what you're putting in and you're more likely to stick to it long term.

对于任何人来说，既然我们今天主要讨论的是女性的力量训练，你认为在开始系统性的渐进超负荷训练之前，花两到三周——可能更少或更多——专门学习正确的动作模式有价值吗？

For anyone, since we're talking mainly about women's resistance training today, Do you think there's value to spending two or three weeks, maybe less, maybe more, just learning movements properly before getting into the whole business of progressive overload?

是的。

Yes.

因为问题在于，当你开始看到自己比上周做得更多时，

Because the problem is you start to see, oh, I can do more than I did last week.

然后你就觉得，哦，这应该是线性增长的，对吧？

And then you think, oh, well, this is linear, right?

所以你以为我每周都能增加10磅，永远这样下去。

And so you think I can add 10 pounds every week forever.

事情不是这样的。

It doesn't work like that.

因此，不可避免地，我们很多人都会以一种导致受伤、扭伤或姿势失控的方式训练，因为我们过于专注于不断加重、加重、再加重。

So inevitably you end up training in a many of us have trained in such a way that we injured something, tweaked something, form failed because we got so focused on just lifting more weight, lifting more weight, lifting more weight.

所以我同意，缓慢的进步可能更好，但同样重要的是，每周尝试多做一次重复，而不是一味地增加重量。

So I agree that a slower progression could be better, but that's also the power of just trying to add another rep instead of trying to add weight week in and week out.

我们都被告诉只需要锻炼就行，也有人示范动作，但如果能像短跑运动员那样，先系统学习各种热身和技巧，循序渐进地进入训练，那就太好了。

We're all told we just kind of like need to exercise and there's examples of how to do movements, but it'd be wonderful if there was kind of like getting the basics, like a sprinter doesn't just go sprint, they learn how to do all these drills and move into it.

这些动作有些很复杂，这不仅仅是避免受伤的问题。

And some of these things are complex and it's not just about avoiding injury.

更重要的是，长期来看，要最大化锻炼的效果。

It's about getting the most out of the exercise over time.

这正是我思考问题的方式。

That's kind of how I'm thinking I about

我认为这还关乎确保你使用正确的技术和完整的动作幅度，因为当我们不断尝试增加负荷、增加负荷、再增加负荷时，这往往是首先被牺牲掉的东西之一。

think it's also making sure that you are using proper technique and full range of motion, because that's one of the other things that is often the first to go when we really try to load up and load up and load up.

你在人们深蹲和卧推时经常看到这种情况。

And you see this with people squatting and benching all the time.

他们只是多加了一个杠铃片，然后为了适应额外的负荷而缩短了动作幅度。

They're just adding another plate but then cutting the range of motion short to accommodate that additional load.

所以这其实不是真正的渐进式超负荷，因为你改变了动作幅度。

And so that's not really progressive overload because you changed your range of motion.

所以我认为，特别是对于那些技术要求高的动作，比如铰链、硬拉、早安式体前屈。

So I think, especially if a lift is technically demanding, something like a hinge, deadlift, good morning.

对于很多从未做过这类动作模式的人来说，要培养那种‘我在空间中的位置感’的动觉意识真的很难。

For a lot of people who've never done that movement pattern, it can be really difficult to just develop that kinesthetic awareness of where am I in space?

我的膝盖弯得太多了还是不够？

Am I bending my knees too much or not enough?

我的上背部是不是开始变圆了？

Starting Am to round my upper back?

当你真正理解了正确的姿势后，你就能知道如何增加负荷。

And when you can really understand the proper form, then you can know how to load it.

如果一位女性在她生理周期的某个特定阶段总是感觉状态很差，并且每个月都如此，她不想在那段时间训练，听起来这并没有问题。

If a woman just feels lousy at one particular phase of her cycle, and that's a consistent month to month thing for her, and she doesn't want to train during that time, it sounded like there's no issue with that.

你并没有建议女性必须硬撑过去，而是说，我们在西海岸，人们会说要尊重自己的感受，而不是对抗那种‘这只是个难熬的时期’的感觉。

That you're not suggesting that women push through that necessarily, that they, we're on the West Coast, that they honor their feelings is how people speak out here, that they honor their feelings as opposed to push against the, you know, the sense like this is just a tough time to do this.

但你是纽约人，现在你正用这种眼神看着我，好像在说：谁在听啊？

But you're from New York and you're giving me this look now where it makes up, who are people are just listening?

劳伦正用这种眼神看着我，意思是：嗯，听起来像是，你知道的，我不确定。

Well, Lauren's looking at me like, yeah, that sounds like, you know, I don't know.

所以，我不想把话说得像是你的意思。

So, But I don't want to put words in your mouth.

你心里是怎么想的？

What are you thinking?

好吧，我来告诉你这一点。

Well, I'll tell you this.

我们有调查数据，显示有多少人报告经历了月经症状，比如痉挛、腰痛、缺乏动力、易怒等。

We have survey data looking at how many people report experiencing menstrual symptoms, things like cramps and low back pain, lack of motivation, irritability.

百分之七十五到八十的女性报告有这些症状，但她们中没有人报告会因为这些症状而改变自己的训练计划。

And seventy five, eighty percent of women report feeling those symptoms and none of them report changing their training in response to those symptoms.

这并不是说你不应该调整，但至少数据显示，即使面对月经症状，人们彻底改变训练计划的情况并不常见。

So not to say that you shouldn't, but typically at least where the data shows, it's not that common that people are overhauling their training even in response to menstrual symptoms.

话虽如此，大多数人只经历一到两天的症状，所以我们讨论的只是跳过或调整一两次，最多两次训练。

That said, most people experience them for one or two days, so we're only talking about skipping or adjusting one, maybe two workouts.

所以我对这个问题也没有特别强烈的看法。

So I don't feel that strongly about it either way.

我觉得这取决于你自己。

I think it's up to you.

就像我说的，在任何一个月里，我们都会有各种原因导致去健身房时状态不佳。

And like like I said, there will be a variety of reasons within any given month why we show up to the gym and we don't feel our best.

同样，出于各种原因，有些日子我们可能会决定做些调整，而其他日子我们可能就决定坚持一下，这两种做法都是完全可以接受的。

And some of those days, again, for a variety of reasons, we might decide to make some adjustments and other days we might just decide to push through and both are completely acceptable.

这是一个不幸的现实，但自来水通常含有对健康有害的污染物。

It's an unfortunate reality, but tap water often contains contaminants that negatively impact our health.

事实上，环境工作组2020年的一项研究估计，超过两亿美国人通过饮用自来水接触到PFAS化学物质，也就是所谓的永久性化学物质。

In fact, a 2020 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that more than two hundred million Americans are exposed to PFAS chemicals, also known as forever chemicals through drinking of tap water.

这些永久性化学物质与多种严重健康问题相关，包括荷尔蒙紊乱、肠道微生物群失调、生育问题以及其他许多健康隐患。

These forever chemicals are linked to serious health issues, such as hormone disruption, gut microbiome disruption, fertility issues, and many other health problems.

环境工作组还显示，超过一亿二千二百万美国人饮用的自来水中含有高浓度的已知致癌化学物质。

The environmental working group has also shown that over 122,000,000 Americans drink tap water with high levels of chemicals known to cause cancer.

正因这些原因，我很高兴Rora成为本播客的赞助商。

It's for all these reasons that I'm thrilled to have Roora as a sponsor of this podcast.

我使用Rora台式净水系统已经快一年了。

I've been using the Rora countertop system for almost a year now.

Rora的过滤技术能去除有害物质，包括内分泌干扰物和消毒副产物，同时保留镁和钙等有益矿物质。

Rora's filtration technology removes harmful substances, including endocrine disruptors and disinfection byproducts while preserving beneficial minerals like magnesium and calcium.

它无需安装或连接管道。

It requires no installation or plumbing.

它采用医用级不锈钢制成，简约的设计能完美融入您的台面。

It's built from medical grade stainless steel and its sleek design fits beautifully on your countertop.

事实上，我认为它是我厨房里一个令人愉悦的添置。

In fact, I consider it a welcome addition to my kitchen.

外观很漂亮，水的味道也很棒。

It looks great and the water is delicious.

如果您想尝试Rora，可以访问rora.com/huberman获取专属折扣。

If you'd like to try Aurora, you can go to rora.com/huberman and get an exclusive discount.

再次提醒，是RoRa，rora.com/huberman。

Again, that's RoRa, rorra.com/huberman.

如果我没记错的话，您研究过激素类避孕方式与运动效果之间的关系。

If I'm not mistaken, you've looked at the data on the relationship between hormone based contraception and effects of exercise.

我想明确说明一下，我说的是激素类避孕方式，因为避孕方式有很多种，有些含激素，有些不含。

And I want to be very clear, I said hormone based contraception because there's so many different forms of contraception, some of which are hormone based, some of which aren't.

当然，在激素类避孕中，又分为雌激素类、孕激素类，还有其他类型。

And of course, within the domain of hormone based, you've got estrogen based, progesterone based, and there's others as well.

这些研究的总体和具体结论是什么？

What are the general and more specific takeaways from that literature?

激素类避孕措施是否会影响运动适应性、运动动机，或其他女性应该注意的方面？

Does hormone based contraception impact the adaptation to exercise, the motivation to exercise, or anything else that women should be aware of?

数据怎么说？

What do the data say?

这些研究的大多数对象是服用复方口服避孕药的人。

The majority of these studies are on folks taking combined oral contraceptive pills.

因此，这不适用于像激素宫内节育器这样的方式，或者现在有些人使用的新型贴片。

So this wouldn't apply to something like a hormonal IUD or there's a patch that people are using now that it's a more modern take.

但目前已有足够的数据表明，在力量、肌肉肥大和爆发力方面，复方口服避孕药并没有产生明显影响。

But there is enough data at this point to say when it comes to strength, hypertrophy, power, we're not seeing combined oral contraceptive pills move the needle in either direction.

当时确实有合理的假设认为，这可能有害，也可能有益。

And there were appropriate hypotheses to say, oh, maybe this could be detrimental or maybe this could be beneficial.

但正如内源性激素波动（波动幅度很大）并未显著影响运动表现或运动适应性一样，激素避孕措施也没有太大影响，这并不令人惊讶。

But what we see similar to the influence of the endogenous hormone fluctuations, which are quite substantial, if those aren't affecting performance or exercise induced adaptations, it's not that shocking that the hormonal contraceptives wouldn't move the needle to a great extent either.

是的，这是个非常好的观点。

Yeah, it's an excellent point.

我的意思是，只要看看月经周期不同阶段雌激素或孕激素水平的变化曲线，正如你所知，这些差异非常巨大，女性体内的睾酮和其他激素也是如此。

I mean, one just looks at the plot of estrogen levels or progesterone levels across the different phases of the menstrual cycle, as you know, these are enormous differences, likewise for testosterone and other hormones in women.

你指出的是，激素类口服避孕药引起的激素变化至少达到了这种程度。

And you're making the point that hormone based pill contraception is making changes in hormones of at least that magnitude.

因此，没有理由认为它会影响运动能力。

And so there's no reason to expect that it should impact at least ability.

我可以想到训练动机、某种能力，比如与肌肉或肌腱力量相关的收缩能力，以及实际的适应过程。

I can think of motivation to train, ability somehow, like if it relates somehow to contractile ability, the muscles or tendon strength or something, and then the actual adaptation.

听起来，这些因素都不会阻碍对运动的适应、肌肉体积或力量的增加，或者两者兼而有之。

Like, so it sounds like none of these things block adaptation to exercise, the increase in muscle size or strength or both.

是这样吗？

Is that right?

没错。

That's right.

而且我想说，如果你刚开始服用避孕药，有些人会出现症状和副作用，其中一些会随着时间逐渐减轻，而另一些则不会，这时你就需要换用其他药物。

And I would say if you're just starting a contraceptive pill, some people have symptoms and side effects, some of which are kind of attenuated over time and some of which are not, and you need to switch to something else.

因此，短期内，由于那种药不适合你，可能会在这方面产生一些短期影响。

So you might for a short term because that pill is not a good fit for you, then there could be some short term influence in that sense.

但另一方面，很多人服用激素类避孕药是因为她们有非常严重的经期症状。

But on the flip side, a lot of people go on a hormonal contraceptive because they have really severe menstrual symptoms.

而这有助于缓解那种疼痛。

And then that can be helpful in relieving that pain.

那么，你可能就愿意在月经期那一周更频繁地去健身房了。

And so then you might be willing to go to the gym more frequently during the week where you have your menstrual period.

所以，我认为我们可以考虑这类实际影响，但就激素本身以及我们通过引入这些合成激素来下调内源性激素产生的事实而言，这似乎并不影响运动表现或对运动的适应。

So, I think we can think about those kind of practical implications, but in terms of just the hormones themselves and the fact that you know, we're down regulating the endogenous hormone production by introducing these synthetic hormones, that doesn't seem to impact performance or adaptations to exercise.

关于围绝经期、绝经期与通常发生的激素变化之间的关系，有哪些真正可靠的数据（如果有的话）？

What, if any, are the really good data around the relationship between perimenopause and menopause and the hormone changes that tend to occur?

我们暂且假设不进行激素替代疗法，那么在训练方面，女性进入围绝经期和绝经期后，是否应该改变她们的训练方式？

Let's assume without hormone replacement therapy for the moment and training, should women change their training as they enter perimenopause menopause?

没有理由改变你的训练，因为我们仍然需要相同的适应效果。

There's no reason to change your training because we still want the same adaptations.

我们希望增加并维持肌肉大小和力量。

We want to increase and maintain muscle size and strength.

我们希望降低跌倒和骨折的风险，保持骨密度。

We want to reduce fall risk and fracture risk, maintain bone density.

因此，抗阻训练对于绝经前和绝经后的女性来说，将是锻炼计划中的关键组成部分。

And so resistance training is going to be a really key component of an exercise program for somebody pre and post menopause.

我认为，那种认为激素变化会影响肌肉的观点，实际上与周期同步理论基于同样的思维模式。

I think the idea that somehow the hormonal changes would influence muscle are really tied to that same thought process that cycle syncing is based on.

因此，这归结为一个假设，即雌激素与肌肉之间存在某种关系。

And so it comes down to this hypothesis that there's this relationship between estrogen and muscle.

因此，如果雌激素在绝经后下降，那么它可能会对肌肉产生某种影响。

And so if estrogen is declining with menopause, then that would have some effect on muscle.

但我们并没有看到这种情况。

But we don't see that.

我们看到的是与年龄相关的肌肉流失，而久坐不动会加剧这种流失。

We see age related muscle loss that is exacerbated by physical inactivity.

但当你观察绝经期过渡期间的瘦体重时，这一变化本身并不会加速肌肉的流失。

But you look at lean mass across menopause transition and that in and of itself isn't accelerating the loss of muscle.

我认为，出于可以理解的原因，人们会将荷尔蒙与肌肉联系起来。

I think for understandable reasons, there's this correlation that people draw between hormones and muscle.

而且由于抗阻训练在人们的印象中本来就更偏向于肌肉，我的意思是，你还有肌腱、骨骼等等，相比之下，有氧训练就没那么突出，所以我们才会形成这种关联，虽然这其实有点荒谬。

And since resistance training is more kind of muscle oriented in people's minds anyway, mean, you got, you know, tendon and bone, etcetera, then cardiovascular training, it's a silly thing, but we kind of make that association.

围绕女性健身，似乎有这么多说法。

There seem all these things around women's fitness.

比如，训练是否应该随着月经周期的不同阶段而改变？

It's like, should training change during different phases of the menstrual cycle?

毕竟，月经周期就是由荷尔蒙主导的。

Because after all, menstrual cycle is hormones.

荷尔蒙会影响人的感受，也会影响肌肉。

Hormones affect how one feels, but also muscle.

你看，我们又回到肌肉这个话题了。

Here we are, you know, back to muscle.

在我看来，随着年龄增长，肌肉大小和力量的变化，既是神经与肌肉连接萎缩及其强度变化的结果，也与激素水平下降有关。

The changes in muscle size and strength as one ages, in my understanding, are just as much a function of atrophy of nerve to muscle connections, the strength of those, as they are some drop in hormones.

我认为这一点从未被明确地大声说出来，所以我想听听你的看法。

And I think it's never really been stated out loud, you know, so I just want your thoughts on this.

你是否认为，如果人们明白很多肌肉和力量的流失是由于缺乏活动，正如你所说，而缺乏活动会导致神经与肌肉连接减弱，这或许能帮助我们稍微摆脱‘肌肉的一切都与激素有关，激素的一切都与肌肉有关’这种观念？

Do you think that if people understood that a lot of muscle and strength loss is inactivity, as you said, and inactivity brings a weakening of the nerve to muscle connection that it might help us get away a little bit from this idea that everything about muscles is hormones and everything about hormones is muscle.

它们同样重要。

That they're equally important.

我意识到我有点在引导证人，但我还是直接说出来吧。

I really realize I'm leading the witness here a little bit, but I'll just out you.

你父亲是位神经科学家。

Your father's a neuroscientist.

神经系统以及它随年龄增长通常发生的变化，在这里有多重要？

How important is the nervous system and the changes that the nervous system normally undergoes as one ages important here?

这就是我们想要做的吗？

Is that what we're trying to do?

还是我们试图抵消其中的一部分？

Or are we trying to offset some of that?

这也很重要，因为我们需要为所有运动模式维持这些连接，对吧？

It's important too, because we need to maintain those connections for all movement patterns, right?

所以，当我们看到长时间的身体不活动，比如固定不动或卧床休息时，肌肉流失的速度是惊人的。

And so when we see long periods of physical inactivity, think, you know, immobilization or bed rest, the rate at which you lose muscle is shocking.

我的意思是，这真的非常、非常显著。

I mean, it's really, really dramatic.

所以我们知道，这是一种我们想要避免的非常极端的萎缩模型。

And so we know that is a very extreme model of atrophy that we want to avoid.

但在日常生活中，还有其他形式的类似情况。

But there are other versions of that in just daily kind of sedentary life.

你并非卧床休息，也没有严格意义上的行动不便，但你活动得如此之少，以至于加剧了肌肉流失。

You're not on bed rest, and you're not technically immobilized, but you're moving so infrequently that you are exacerbating muscle loss.

即使你只是进行身体活动，即使你不举重，你维持肌肉的可能性也会大得多。

And even if you are just physically active, even if you're not lifting weights, you're much more likely to maintain that muscle.

但一旦你停止身体活动，我们就会遇到很多问题。

But once you stop being physically active, then we run into a lot of problems.

如果更多人能理解所有这些运动、肌肉以及它们与健康和大脑健康相关的神经层面，我想这会有助于男性和女性绕过你之前提到的那个问题。

If more people understood the neural aspect of all this exercise stuff and muscle and how that relates to fitness and brain health, I think it would help men and women kind of get around this thing that you mentioned earlier.

我脑海里一直萦绕着一种想法，那就是健身和运动被呈现给女性的方式，太多都是围绕着减肥。

It's just kind of hovering my mind that so much of the way that fitness has presented, exercise has been presented to women is around weight loss.

而现在，对话的主题似乎正在转变。

And now the conversation seems to be changing.

是关于长寿。

It's about longevity.

是关于维持肌肉。

It's about maintaining muscle.

是关于维持大脑健康以及避免受伤。

It's about maintaining brain health and not getting injured.

所以看起来它正在发生微妙的转变。

And so it seems like it's morphing slightly.

我认为这在抗阻训练中被忽视了，因为我们只从肌肉层面去考虑它。

I think that is missed in resistance training because we just think about it at the muscle level.

但当我们考虑运动单位募集时，那其实是一个神经通路。

But when we think about motor unit recruitment, that is a neural pathway.

我们需要所有这些通路保持完好，才能执行任何类型的运动功能。

And we need all of those to stay intact to perform any kind of motor function.

因此，当我们进行举重训练时，我们并非仅仅在增肌。

And so, when we are lifting weights, we're not exclusively building muscle.

这就是为什么我们会看到肌腱适应性变化、骨骼适应性变化，一切都是有联系的。

And that's why we see tendon adaptations, bone adaptations, everything is connected.

这也解释了为什么如果你是一位年长者，但以需要某种协调性的方式保持身体活跃，比如打匹克球，那也同样非常有益。

And it's also why if you're somebody who is aging, but you're physically active in a way that requires a certain type of coordination, maybe it's pickleball, that that is really helpful as well.

我认为必须去健身房的想法让一些人望而却步，因为在很多女性心中，她们会觉得自己将是健身房里唯一的女性。

I think the idea that you have to go to the gym is intimidating for some people because a lot of women in their minds think that they're going to be the only woman in the gym.

这种情况越来越少了。

That's less and less true.

但以我的经验来看，力量训练区仍然是健身房里男性占主导的区域。

But in my experience, it's still the weight room is still probably a male dominated section of the gym.

我认为最大的恐惧是不知道该怎么做。

I think the biggest fear is not knowing what to do.

如果你不想请教练，又对使用杠铃或哑铃自学动作模式感到有些紧张，那么健身器械会是一个很好的起点。

And machines can be a really good place to start if you're somebody who doesn't want to work with a trainer and is a little bit nervous about trying to self teach those movement patterns with barbells or dumbbells.

如今，许多商业健身房都设有器械循环训练区，你可以从那里开始，逐渐熟悉这些动作模式，了解哪些动作具有挑战性，哪些接近力竭。

A lot of commercial gyms these days have a circuit of machines, and you can start there and kind of get comfortable with those movement patterns, get comfortable with what is challenging, what is close to failure,

然后

and

再逐步过渡到其他一些锻炼和器械。

then progress to some of these other exercises and equipment.

是的，当我试图鼓励女性家人去进行力量训练时，她们说：我不想进健身房。

Yeah, when I've tried to encourage female family members like to weight train, like, I don't want to go to a gym.

比如，为什么不去呢？

Like, why not?

她们会说，我喜欢我的瑜伽课。

They're like, I like my yoga class.

我喜欢普拉提。

I like Pilates.

我喜欢去徒步。

I like going for hikes.

你认为女性可以做些什么来降低这些门槛呢？

What do you think are some things that women could do to sort of lower those barriers for people?

可以从团体健身课开始，因为尽管从合理的抗阻训练计划角度来看，大多数团体健身课并非最佳选择，但它能让你走进健身房，让你感到舒适，还能教会我们之前讨论过的一些动作模式。

Starting with group fitness, because even though most group fitness classes are suboptimal from the perspective of a sound resistance training program, it gets you into the gym, it gets you feeling comfortable, it will teach you some of those movement patterns that we've discussed.

然后也许下课后，你可以和课上认识的几个朋友一起去试试几台器械。

And then maybe after class, you and a couple of friends that you've made in class can go and try out a couple of machines.

这样你就能以一种比较轻松的方式逐渐适应了。

And so you can kind of ease into it that way.

人们倾向于选择团体健身课程，因为它具有社交性，而且你有一个固定的预约时间，必须在特定时间到场。

And people gravitate towards group fitness because it's social and you have an appointment because you have to be there at a specific time.

所以这可以是另一个很好的切入点，让你开始去健身房，而不会因为不确定如何进行的练习或不熟悉如何使用的设备而感到不知所措。

So that can be another good kind of entry point to get you going to the gym without feeling overwhelmed by exercises you're not sure how to perform or equipment that you're not sure how to use.

关于激素、月经周期和训练之间的关系，我知道我一直在说这个，但这个问题确实经常出现，我的意思是，你在社交媒体上肯定也看到过。

In terms of the relationship between hormones, menstrual cycle, and training, I know I'm staying on this, but it comes up, I mean, you've on social media.

我的意思是，不知道你在社交媒体上收到的问题中，有多少比例是关于激素和训练之间相互关联的？

I mean, don't know what percentage of questions that you get on social media relate to hormones and training as they relate to one another?

这确实挺多的。

It's a lot.

我觉得现在比以往任何时候都更频繁地看到这类信息不断涌现。

I think now more than ever, you're just seeing more and more of this messaging pop up.

关于月经周期，它不仅仅关乎运动。

And with the menstrual cycle, it's not only about exercise.

我看到有说法称，你应该根据周期阶段调整饮食方式、工作方式，甚至社交方式。

I see the way you should eat differently due to cycle phase, the way you should work differently, the way you should socialize differently.

有各种各样的说法都在告诉你，需要彻底改变生活的这一方面，以适应这些阶段。

There are all of these messages that are saying you need to kind of overhaul this aspect of your life to align with these phases.

有没有证据表明抗阻训练可以帮助缓解女性在经期某些阶段可能出现的负面症状？

Is there any evidence that resistance training can help ameliorate some of the negative symptoms of certain phases of the cycle that women might be experiencing?

换句话说，她们在周期中最困难的阶段进行锻炼时，是否常常感觉更好？

In other words, do they often feel better by training during the most difficult phase of their cycle?

这一点曾经被证实过吗？

Has that ever been demonstrated?

针对抗阻训练本身还没有明确证据，但就体力活动而言，确实有。

Not with resistance training specifically, but with physical activity, sure.

运动肯定有帮助，因为如果你有痛经，只要做一些能促进血液循环的事情，哪怕只是散个步，也会有帮助。

It can definitely help because if you have something like cramps, then just kind of doing something to increase blood flow, even if it's going for a walk, can be helpful.

而且运动还能让你转移注意力，不会一直坐在那里专注于自己不舒服的感觉。

And it also kind of gets your mind off of it so you're not actually sitting there kind of focusing on the fact that you're uncomfortable.

这因人而异，但我认为某种形式的体力活动是有益的，你可以考虑尝试一下，无论是抗阻训练还是其他运动。

And it depends on the person, but I think some sort of physical activity can be beneficial and that's something you should consider exploring, whether it's resistance training or anything else.

月经周期中的营养方面呢？

What about the nutrition aspect in the menstrual cycle?

营养方面的数据非常有限，因为和大多数营养数据一样，都是自我报告的。

The nutrition data is pretty poor because as is most nutrition data, it's kind of self report.

所以我们只是观察性地发现，人们在这一阶段平均比另一阶段吃得稍多一些，这是基于自我报告的饮食日记。

And so we're saying observationally, people tend to eat a little bit more in this phase versus that phase on average based on self reported food diaries.

这是否意味着你应该调整热量摄入、蛋白质摄入或碳水化合物摄入？

Does that mean that you should change caloric intake or protein intake or carbohydrate intake?

我们没有数据支持这些做法。

We don't have the data to support any of that.

而很多观点都回归到这样一种理论：你有一个合成代谢阶段或分解代谢阶段。

And a lot of it comes back to this theory that you have a kind of an anabolic phase or a catabolic phase.

于是，从‘你应当在这一阶段侧重抗阻训练’，延伸到‘那么你在另一阶段就必须摄入更多蛋白质’。

And so that extended from, oh, you should focus on more resistance training during this phase to, oh, well, then you must need more protein in this other phase.

因此，最初关于合成代谢和分解代谢状态的假设，已经演变为改变你的锻炼计划和饮食习惯，以及其他方面。

So what kind of started as a hypothesis about anabolic and catabolic states has twisted into changing your exercise program and changing your diet among other things.

在今天和你坐下来之前，我咨询了几位不同的女性，因为我需要来自真实女性的数据，而不是我对自己想法的猜测，对吧？

I spoke to a couple of different women prior to sitting down with you today, because I needed data from actual women, as opposed to my ideas about what they might be thinking, right?

或者我在网上看到的内容，对吧？

Or what I see online, right?

这些都是我亲近的人，我相信她们对我坦诚相告。

These are people I'm close with and I believe they were honest with me.

这并不是一个大规模的调查。

And for the, it wasn't an enormous poll.

这不是一项正式的研究，但我从与我交谈的五个人中，至少听到了三次同样的说法。

This is not an official study, but I heard something at least three times out of the five people I spoke to.

内容是：我知道我应该举重，但我感觉从普拉提或瑜伽中已经获得了足够的肌肉训练。

And it was this, I know I should lift weights, but I feel like I get enough muscle training from my Pilates or yoga.

我说：是的，但这些运动和力量训练真的不一样吗？

And I said, yeah, but couldn't those things be really different than resistance training?

我得到的回复在几个案例中都很相似：是的，但我的普拉提老师看起来很棒，精力充沛，还比我大十岁，我想看起来像她，所以我选择做普拉提。

And the answer that I got back was similar in several cases, which was, yeah, but my Pilates teacher, she looks awesome and she has tons of energy and she's ten years older than me and I wanna look like her, so I'm gonna do Pilates.

然后我说，嗯，那她做力量训练吗？

And I said, well, do you Does she lift weights?

她说，不做，她只练普拉提。

And she said, no, she just does Pilates.

然后我说，我在想她是不是小时候练过体操。

And then I said, well, I wonder if she would like did gymnastics when we were younger.

然后很快我就成了那个进行这种对话的人，试图去协商一件我根本不想协商的事情。

And then pretty soon I'm now the guy having this like conversation trying to essentially negotiate something I have no interest in negotiating.

但这让我窥见了一个我认为可能相当普遍的现象，那就是我们都会看着某个人以及他们正在做的事情，然后心想，哦，那种样子看起来既合理又有吸引力。

But it gave me a window into something that I think might be pretty common, which is that we all look at somebody and what they're doing and we go, oh, like that seems like a look that is reasonable and attractive.

而我也想要那样。

And I would want that.

而且他们似乎在生活中过得风生水起，很快乐。

And they seem to be like kicking butt in life and happy.

那我就照做吧。

And I'm gonna just do that.

那么对于那些可能已经达到理想肌肉量、现在只做普拉提和散步、或许还有其他一些活动，但不进行抗阻训练的女性，你会对她们说些什么呢？

And so what do you say to women who perhaps like they're as muscular as they want to be now doing Pilates and walking and maybe doing some other activities, but they're not doing resistance training.

有什么理由能激励她们也去进行抗阻训练吗？

Is there some reason why they should be motivated to also resistance train?

你所描述的情况非常普遍。

What you're describing is very common.

不幸的是，对于绝大多数人来说，他们随后去上健身课或模仿那个人的日常饮食，却永远无法拥有那个人的体型，因为我们有遗传因素、营养因素、运动因素，而且有时无论怎样努力，我们都不会拥有另一个人的身体。

And unfortunately, for the vast majority of people, they then go and do the exercise class or follow what this person eats in a day, and they never end up looking like that person because we have genetic factors, nutritional factors, exercise factors, and sometimes no matter what, we're not going to have the body of this other person.

但普拉提尤其爱承诺这些身体成分上的戏剧性变化。

But Pilates is particularly guilty of promising these dramatic changes in body composition.

并且如果你上了这门课，你就会变得紧实，增加肌肉量，获得这些修长、纤细的线条，或者你会看起来像个舞者。

And that if you do this class, that you're going to get toned, you're going to increase your muscle mass and get these long, lean lines, or you'll look like a dancer.

所以当我们使用那个词时——我们不用‘紧实’这个词，但当人们用它时，他们指的是增加肌肉尺寸和减少体脂。

And so when we use that word, which we don't, toned, but when people use it, they mean increase muscle size and decrease body fat.

而实现这一目标最有效、最高效的方法是通过抗阻训练来增加肌肉尺寸，并通过营养调整来减少体脂。

And the most effective and efficient way to accomplish that is through resistance training to increase muscle size and through nutritional adjustments to decrease body fat.

即使你现在很满意于做普拉提和散步——我并不是说要放弃这些，因为我支持人们从事任何他们喜欢的体育活动——但这并不足以提供足够的阻力，也不是渐进式的阻力训练，无法有效抵御我之前提到的与年龄相关的肌肉流失。

Even if you're happy doing the Pilates and walking right now, and I'm not saying give that up because I'm a fan of all physical activity that people enjoy, But it is not sufficient resistance, it's not progressive resistance to stave off that age related muscle loss that I mentioned.

我们每周只需要进行两次二十分钟的全身抗阻训练，就能对减缓这种衰退产生相当显著的效果。

All we need is two twenty minute workouts per week, full body resistance training, to make a pretty powerful impact on trying to attenuate some of that decline.

而失去肌肉质量、增加跌倒风险、骨折风险，所有这些导致你在八九十岁时功能无法独立的下游健康影响，我们都不希望发生。

And losing muscle mass, increasing fall risk, fracture risk, all of those downstream health effects that lead to an existence in your 80s or 90s that is not very functionally independent, we don't want that.

所以如果我们知道可以实施这一点，而且时间投入并不大，财务投入也不多，这几乎是理所当然的选择。

And so if we know we can implement this and it's not that much of a time investment, it's not that much of a financial investment, it's kind of a no brainer.

我很高兴你提到了遗传因素，因为遗传在瘦体重与非瘦体重的身体比例方面影响巨大。

I'm so glad you mentioned the genetic piece because genetics are huge when it comes to, you know, lean mass to non lean mass body ratio.

人们，我的意思是，显然如果人们摄入过多卡路里，他们就会增重。

People don't, I mean, obviously people over consume calories, they're going to gain weight.

有些人可能比其他人增重更快，但你知道，这确实是一个重要因素。

Some people more quickly than others perhaps, but, you know, it's such a big factor.

在我看来，年轻时从事过力量和速度运动的人也是如此。

It seems to me that so is someone having done strength in speed sports when they were younger.

你看那些体操运动员、短跑选手、撑杆跳运动员、职业网球选手，他们都有大量的速度型动作。

Like you look at someone who is a gymnast, a sprinter, a pole vaulter, a competitive tennis player, he got a lot of like speed type movement.

我注意到，即使到了三十多岁，他们只是做瑜伽之类的运动，我知道这一点，因为作为研究生，你知道的，我在二十多岁的时候，到了三十多岁当博士后时，锻炼得少了。

And I noticed even when they just do yoga or something in their thirties, I know this because as a graduate student, as you know, right, when I was in my twenties and then a postdoc in my thirties, you know, I was exercising less.

而你周围的人也在减少锻炼。

And the people around you are exercising less.

所以你一直在做实验，一直在学习。

So you're just doing experiments all the time and studying all the time.

但有些人似乎在整个过程中依然保持得很好。

And some people just seem to stay really fit through that.

你会问，你平时都做些什么？

And you go, like, what do you do?

他们说，哦，现在我就喜欢做瑜伽。

And they're like, oh, I just like these days, I just do yoga.

你高中时参加过体育运动吗？

Did you play a sport in high school?

是的，比如，你知道的，一级联赛足球运动员、体操运动员。

Yeah, was like, you know, D1 soccer, gymnast.

我确实认为，那些早年参与这些竞技运动的人，他们能保持一定程度的肌肉量。

And I do think that people who play these competitive sports early in life, they hold onto a certain amount of musculature.

现在，也许存在一种选择偏差，结合训练，使他们成为了一级联赛运动员，对吧？

Now, maybe there's a selection bias that led them to be a D1 athlete combined with training, right?

所以他们某种程度上拥有遗传优势，并在此基础上加以发展。

So they were kind of had genetics that then they built on.

但我觉得，这些情况非常具有误导性。

But what I'm, I feel like these situations are very misleading.

对于男性来说，当某人肌肉极其发达且精瘦时，往往会产生误导。

And with men, it tends to be misleading where somebody is extremely muscular and lean.

我想到了我的朋友纳西玛，他和马克·贝尔一起做播客。

I think of my friend Naseema, he does a podcast with Mark Bell.

西玛完全没有使用类固醇和睾酮替代疗法。

Sema is completely steroid and TRT free.

他确实如此。

He really is.

我相信他。

I believe him.

实际上，说到你之前的观点，他的睾酮水平已经显示在五点几的范围内。

And actually to speak to your earlier point, his testosterone, he's shown his charge to somewhere in like the mid fives.

这人的肌肉密度简直惊人。

The guy is like, his muscle density is insane.

他体脂率只有8%。

He walks around with 8% body fat.

他是个出色的运动员，等等。

He's a terrific athlete, etcetera.

他拥有遗传优势，并通过极其刻苦的训练加以发挥。

He has genetic gifts that he's built upon with very hard work.

所以我不能看着他，就说：哦，我也照他那样做就行，对吧？

So I can't look at him and say, oh, I'm going just do what he does, right?

女性健身领域的类比，我不想贬低那些想要练得非常非常健美的女性，但我们这里只考虑平均水平。

The parallel in women's fitness, and I don't want to discount the, you know, the women out there who want to be very, very muscular, but let's just consider the averages here.

她们可能会看自己的普拉提老师，那位老师可能曾是体操运动员，本身也有点天赋异禀，所以现在才能做到那样。

They might look at their Pilates teacher and she might've been a gymnast who was also slightly genetically gifted and now can just do that.

而且没人谈论这一点。

And no one talks about this.

这真的扭曲了人们的思维，大家都在试图弄清楚该做什么、该吃什么等等。

And it really contorts people's thinking and people are trying to figure out what to do, what to eat, etcetera.

所以我很想请你详细阐述一下这一点，如果你觉得合适的话，但好像没人承认这个。

So I'd love for you to elaborate on this a bit more where if you think it's appropriate, but like no one acknowledges this.

我同意你关于童年活动的假设。

I share your hypothesis about the activity you do as a kid.

即使你没有成为精英运动员，我认为那种经历也会以某种方式伴随你。

Even if you don't become an elite athlete, I think that is something that does kind of stick with you.

比如说，如果你小时候是体操运动员，然后在20多岁开始举重，我发现女性更容易发展出上半身力量，因为我认为她们在童年时期就在做类似的活动。

And let's say you were a child gymnast and then you pick up lifting in your 20s, I see women develop that upper body strength a lot more easily because I think they were doing that in childhood.

基因的变异性是巨大的，因为这关乎我们的结构——骨骼结构、肌肉附着点、腰围大小。

The genetic variability is huge because it's the structure, our bone structure, our muscle insertions, the size of our waist.

有些事情是我们无法改变的。

There are certain things that we can't change.

你无法改变自己的体型。

You can't change your shape.

是的，我们可以增加脂肪、减少脂肪、增长肌肉、流失肌肉，但有些人天生肩膀更宽，或者拥有特定的肌肉附着点，这意味着他们能呈现出那种饱满的肩膀轮廓，或者他们就是不会在手臂或腿部堆积太多体脂。

Yes, we can gain fat, lose fat, gain muscle, lose muscle, but some people have naturally broader shoulders or have dealt insertions that mean they have that look of these capped shoulders or they just don't carry a lot of body fat on their arms or on their legs.

因此，我们倾向于储存脂肪或分布脂肪的方式因人而异。

And so the way that, where we tend to store fat or distribute that fat varies from person to person.

我们首先和最后减脂的部位也会有所不同。

The place in which we lose fat first and last will vary.

而且，当你将自己与一个结构非常不同的人进行比较时，也许他们的新陈代谢允许他们在非常舒适的热量摄入下维持特定的体重或体脂率。

And often, when you compare yourself to somebody with a very different structure, perhaps they have a metabolism that allows for them to maintain a certain body weight or a certain body fat at a really comfortable caloric intake.

然而，对你来说，要维持那种特定的体型或体脂水平，则需要一个非常不舒服、不可持续的热量摄入水平。

Whereas for you to maintain that certain level of body size or body fat would require a very uncomfortable, unsustainable level of caloric intake.

这就是事实，无法改变。

And that is just is what it is.

在健身的早期，也就是我九十年代刚开始的时候，虽然不算太老，但毕竟现在是这样。

In the old days of fitness, meaning when I started in the nineties, it's not old days, but here I am.

那时候有外胚型、内胚型和中胚型的说法。

There was this idea of ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph.

现在我们不再听到了。

We don't hear that anymore.

外胚型指的是非常瘦、肌肉细长、关节小，所谓很难增肌的人。

Ectomorph being very thin, long sinewy muscles, small joints, quote unquote hard gainer.

中胚型则是那种比较健壮、可能相对瘦一些的人。

There was mesomorph, which is the kind of, you know, more muscular, somewhat lean perhaps.

而内胚型则是指体内脂肪较多的那种人。

And then there was the endomorph idea, somebody carrying a lot of excess body fat kind of idea.

现在这些分类在选择训练计划时还完全无关紧要吗？

Is that just completely irrelevant now in terms of picking training programs?

我们是否真的已经达成共识，认为关键在于：听着，如果你是内胚型体质，那就是吃得太多。

Have we just really landed in a place where it's all about, Hey, listen, if you're a endomorph, you're eating more than you should.

也许下面有肌肉。

There's muscle under there perhaps.

如果你是外胚型体质，你只是，你知道的，维持着非常低的体重。

If you're an ectomorph, you're just, you know, maintaining a very low body weight.

你需要多举重、多吃东西。

You need to lift more and eat more.

这其中有什么现实依据吗？

Is there any reality to this?

我可能错了，但我认为这些标签和描述甚至不是来自任何生理学研究或框架。

I could be wrong, but I think those labels and those descriptors don't even come from any sort of physiology research or framework.

我认为它们来自心理学，这毫无道理，因为我们是用它们来描述一个人对训练可能产生的适应预期。

I think they come from psychology, which makes no sense given that we're using them to describe how one might expect to adapt to training.

你可以说，哦，如果你是那种比较瘦的人，也许可以预期自己增肌会比较困难，但有时情况完全不是这样。

You can say, oh, if you're somebody who is kind of skinny, maybe you can expect to be a hard gainer, but sometimes that's not the case at all.

你看到一些 teenage 男孩，原本又瘦又高，但开始健身后，体型突然变得壮实起来。

You see teenage boys that were kind of skin and bones and lanky, and then they start lifting and they blow up.

哦，等等，雷兹，你刚才说‘突然变壮’？

Oh, didn't Oh, I raised my hand, Rez, you said blow up.

我没变壮，但我是六英尺一英寸高，体重一百五十磅。

I didn't blow up, but I mean, I was a six'one, one hundred and fifty pounds.

在我训练的第一年，我大概增重了二十五到三十磅，可能不全是肌肉，但这种增长并没有持续下去。

And in my first year of training, I think I put on like 25, 30 pounds of maybe it wasn't all muscle, but that didn't continue.

这种情况确实可能发生。

It definitely can happen.

但我还认识一些人，我们初中毕业时，他们就已经身材健硕了，尽管他们从未碰过任何器械。

But I also knew guys that when we finished junior high school, they were like built, even though they had never touched a weight.

比如我的朋友科斯特洛，他有着巨大的前臂。

They were like my bulldog Costello who had these huge forearms.

他从来没碰过任何重量训练器械。

He never touched a weight.

确实，所以我认为遗传变异这部分影响巨大。

Was just, you know, so I do think the genetic variation piece is huge.

不过身高因素也很关键，因为想想看，如果你身高五尺六寸，拥有和五尺十一寸的人相对相似的肌肉量，你会看起来比高个子的人壮实得多。

There's also the height component too, though, because if you think about, if you are five'six and you have, you know, the same kind of relative muscle mass as somebody who is five'eleven, you are going to look way more muscular than the tall counterpart.

所以，如果身高五尺十一寸或六尺二寸的人想要看起来非常健壮，他们就必须增加大量肌肉，因为他们个子更高。

So if the person who's five eleven or six two wants to look really muscular, they're gonna have to put on a lot of mass because they're taller.

我想稍作休息，感谢一下我们的赞助商Function。

I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Function.

去年，在寻找最全面的实验室检测方法后，我成为了Function的会员。

Last year, became a Function member after searching for the most comprehensive approach to lab testing.

Function提供超过100项先进的实验室检测，能为你提供整个身体健康状况的关键快照。

Function provides over 100 advanced lab tests that give you a key snapshot of your entire bodily health.

这份快照能让你深入了解心脏健康、激素健康、免疫功能、营养水平等等。

This snapshot offers you with insights on your heart health, hormone health, immune functioning, nutrient levels, and much more.

他们最近还增加了毒素检测，例如有害塑料中的双酚A暴露检测，以及PFAS或永久性化学物质的检测。

They've also recently added tests for toxins such as BPA exposure from harmful plastics and tests for PFAS or forever chemicals.

Function 不仅提供超过一百种对您的身心健康至关重要的生物标志物检测，还会分析这些结果，并提供相关领域顶级医生的专业见解。

Function not only provides testing of over a 100 biomarkers key to your physical and mental health, but it also analyzes these results and provides insights from top doctors who are expert in the relevant areas.

例如，在我首次使用 Function 检测时，我发现自己的血液中汞含量偏高。

For example, in one of my first tests with Function, I learned that I had elevated levels of mercury in my blood.

Function 不仅帮助我发现了这个问题，还提供了降低汞水平的最佳建议，包括减少金枪鱼的摄入。

Function not only helped me detect that, but offered insights into how best to reduce my mercury levels, which included limiting my tuna consumption.

我一直在大量食用金枪鱼，同时努力多吃绿叶蔬菜，并补充 NAC 和乙酰半胱氨酸，这两种物质都能支持谷胱甘肽的生成和解毒功能。

I've been eating a lot of tuna while also making an effort to eat more leafy greens and supplementing with NAC and acetylcysteine, both of which can support glutathione production and detoxification.

我还想说，通过第二次使用 Function 检测，我发现这种方法是有效的。

And I should say by taking a second function test, that approach worked.

全面的血液检测至关重要。

Comprehensive blood testing is vitally important.

有许多与您的身心健康相关的问题，只有通过血液检测才能发现。

There's so many things related to your mental and physical health that can only be detected in a blood test.

问题是，血液检测一直非常昂贵且复杂。

The problem is blood testing has always been very expensive and complicated.

相比之下，我对Function的简洁性以及其价格水平印象深刻，它非常实惠。

In contrast, I've been super impressed by function simplicity and at the level of cost, it is very affordable.

因此，我决定加入他们的科学顾问委员会，并且很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。

As a consequence, I decided to join their scientific advisory board and I'm thrilled that they're sponsoring the podcast.

如果你想尝试Function，可以访问functionhealth.com/huberman。

If you'd like to try Function, you can go to functionhealth.com/huberman.

Function目前有超过25万人的等待名单，但他们正在为Huberman播客的听众提供提前访问权限。

Function currently has a wait list of over 250,000 people, but they're offering early access to Huberman podcast listeners.

再次提醒，访问functionhealth.com/huberman即可获得Function的提前访问权限。

Again, that's functionhealth.com/huberman to get early access to function.

那么我们来谈谈空腹训练还是非空腹训练。

So let's talk about training fasted or not training fasted.

我忍不住笑，因为你知道，最近网上关于这个问题的讨论变得非常激烈。

I'm chuckling because, you know, there are these times when I think, oh, know, recently it got really intense online.

女性应该空腹训练还是不空腹训练？

Should women train fasted or not train fasted?

从我们俩都从事的研究科学领域来看，这些网络上的争论根本算不了什么，因为归根结底，真正重要的是我们究竟知道什么？

Coming from the world of research science, which we both do, like these battles online, they're like nothing because it's in the end, it really boils down to what do we know?

我们不知道什么？

What do we not know?

没错。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

科学界的争论往往体现在两个人盯着同一张图表，争论图表上每一个数据点。

Battles in science get down to two people looking at the same graph and arguing about it like every, you know, that one piece of data out on the plot.

当我们争论的是大众体验时，其实并不是在争论数据本身。

We're not really arguing data when we're arguing mass experience.

那么，关于女性空腹训练，在减脂、增肌、力量提升等方面，实验室数据究竟显示了什么？整体来看，这是个好主意还是坏主意？

So what is the data, the laboratory data on women training fasted in terms of fat loss, muscle gain, strength gain, and just whether or not it's a good or bad idea on the whole?

我很高兴你提到数据这一点，因为在一些这类讨论中，人们常常过度推演潜在的机制。

I'm glad you bring up the data piece because in some of these conversations, there's a lot of extrapolation of a potential mechanism.

而我们在制定运动和营养建议时，并不会依赖这种推测。

And that's not where we lean when we develop our recommendations about exercise and nutrition.

我们需要关注目标人群——人类——在使用我们所讨论的干预手段时，所测量的实际结果数据。

We need to look at the data in the population of interest, humans, measuring the outcome we are interested in using the intervention that we're discussing.

因此，关于空腹和饱腹状态下的训练，已经有长期研究进行了探讨。

So, in the case of fed and fasted state training, this has been looked at on longer term studies.

这里指的是空腹训练，而不仅仅是单次的空腹训练。

So, fasted state training, not just an acute bout of fasted state training.

男性和女性在肌肉增长和脂肪减少方面的运动适应效果是相同的。

And the muscle growth and fat loss adaptations to exercise are the same in men and in women.

曾经有一种观点认为，空腹训练可能有助于减脂。

And there was a school of thought that fasted training might be beneficial for fat loss.

大概是2012年左右吧。

So like 2012, maybe.

当时大家都做空腹有氧，以为这样能加速脂肪燃烧，因为他们处于空腹状态，急性期会更多地氧化脂肪。

And everyone was doing fasted cardio thinking it was going to accelerate their fat loss because they were exercising in a fasted state and oxidizing more fat because they were fasted acutely.

结果发现，运动后急性脂肪氧化或脂肪氧化并不足以抵消全天其他时段的新陈代谢，因此长期来看并不会导致更多的体脂流失。

Turns out that acute fat oxidation or fat oxidation post workout isn't meaningful enough to offset the rest of the metabolism throughout the day such that you don't lose more body fat long term.

现在，观点又走向了另一个极端，有人认为如果你空腹训练，你会增脂或流失肌肉。

Now the pendulum has kind of swung in the other direction, and the argument is that if you're training fasted, you're going to gain fat or lose muscle.

但这也没多少道理，因为我们早上醒来时，昨晚刚吃过晚饭，对吧？

And that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either because when we wake up in the morning we ate dinner last night, right?

我们体内储存着糖原，而且大多数力量训练本身并不会大量消耗糖原。

We have stored glycogen and most resistance training sessions aren't extremely glycogen depleting anyway.

所以，除非我们要进行长时间的耐力训练，否则为了给长时间的训练提供能量，提前吃点东西确实是明智的。

So unless we're going to do some really long form endurance training, in which case, yeah, it's probably wise to have something to eat beforehand to fuel that long session.

选择空腹训练还是饱腹训练，应该基于个人偏好。

The decision to train fed or fasted should be based on personal preference.

你个人有偏好吗？

Do you have a personal preference?

如果我早上锻炼，我总是空腹训练。

If I go in the morning, I always train fasted.

如果我晚些时候去锻炼，那我已经吃过东西了。

If I go later in the day, I've eaten.

训练前会摄入咖啡因吗？

Caffeine before you train?

总是会的。

Always.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是为了咖啡因带来的普遍警觉性，还是为了其提升运动表现的效果？

For the just general alertness or also performance enhancing effects of caffeine?

我更注意到的是普遍的警觉性，但这两者可能很难区分开来。

I notice more the general alertness, but it's probably hard to separate those.

我认为，如果你之前不常摄入咖啡因，那么你会看到更多对运动表现的益处，但我不是这种情况。

I think we see more performance benefits if you go from being caffeine naive, and I am not.

我现在已经非常习惯了，可能看不到那么多对运动表现的益处了。

I'm very habituated at this point, I'm probably not seeing that many performance benefits.