假期以及为什么美国人休假这么少

从《蜘蛛侠》到史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格的新片，这个夏天你该追的剧和电影我们全给你列好了。

From Spider Man to a new Steven Spielberg movie, we know the TV and movies you'll wanna watch this summer.

我对这部电影特别期待。

I'm excited about this film.

一听说有悬疑、有阴谋、还有外星人，我就直接答应了。

I just know suspense, intrigue, aliens, and I'm like, alright.

斯皮尔伯格的作品，我一定看。

Spielberg, I'm in.

这是来自《流行文化开心话》的夏日观影指南。

Out the summer guide from Pop Culture Happy Hour.

可以在NPR应用上听，或者在你常用的播客平台收听。

Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.

这是NPR的《金钱星球》。

This is Planet Money from NPR.

阿德瓦勒·梅去欧洲度了一次长途假。

Adewale May went on this big vacation to Europe.

这是我第一次去欧洲。

It was my very first time in Europe.

哦，那地方美极了。

Oh, it was it was beautiful.

我觉得

I think

阿德瓦勒的第一站是西班牙。

Adewale's first stop was Spain.

他那周周一、周二都在那儿。

He was there during the week, Monday, Tuesday.

大家都待在户外，吃吃喝喝，喝杯咖啡，玩闹嬉戏，放风筝，特别自在。

And everyone's outside, you know, eating, catching a coffee, they're playing, just like having fun, doing things, just flying kites.

你是说成年人也这样？

And I know that Like adults?

就是，就是

Like Like

成年人。

adults.

是的。

Yeah.

就是成年人。

Like Adults.

明白了。

Okay.

我真看到一个五十岁左右的人，正在外面玩。

I I legit saw someone who was like 50 years old, who was just like playing outside.

我觉得他们是在玩飞盘。

I I think they were playing frisbee.

我当时就惊了。

I was just like, wow.

这真的特别美好。

That's that's just very very nice.

适龄劳动人口。

Working age adults.

工作时间里，成年人在户外活动。

Working age adults outside during the workday, during work hours.

阿德瓦勒只是注意到了这一切，默默观察着。

Adewale is just noticing this, taking it in.

他和一个朋友在一起。

He's with a buddy.

他们刚出发不久，正吃午饭。

They're at lunch early into the trip.

我们正在吃海鲜饭，我朋友环顾四周，突然说……

So we're we're having paella, and my friend was like looking around.

他直接问我：‘这儿的人平时都靠什么谋生啊？’

He was just like, bro, what do people do here for a living?

他朋友的想法和阿德瓦勒一模一样：为什么看起来有这么多当地人不在上班？

His friend was thinking the same thing that Adewale was thinking, which was, why does it seem like so many locals are not at work?

我们就到处问人，嘿，你平时是做什么工作的？

And, like, we're asking around just like, hey, like, what do you do for work?

大家的回答五花八门，有人是裁缝，有人在室内设计公司上班。

And there's we got all of these different responses where, you know, someone's a seamstress and someone's works at, like, an interior design studio.

阿德瓦勒知道，整个欧洲大陆对工作的态度，跟美国很不一样，尤其是夏天。

And Adewale knew that this entire continent basically has a different relationship with work than The US does, especially in the summer.

商家全都关门歇业了。

Businesses are just completely closed.

阿德瓦勒是经济政策研究所的劳动经济学研究员。

Adewale is a labor economics researcher at the Economic Policy Institute.

但亲眼看到欧洲人对待工作的方式，感觉还是不一样。

But actually seeing the European attitude toward work in person felt different.

这让他想起了几年前参与过的一份报告。

And it made Adewale think of this report he worked on a few years back.

那份报告的名字叫《没有假期的国度》。

The name of the report is No Vacation Nation.

《无休假之国》

No Vacation Nation.

这名字真是再贴切不过了。

Very very on on the nose.

在这份报告中，阿德瓦勒研究了全球最富裕的21个国家，统计了每个国家法律强制规定的带薪休假天数。

In this report, Adewale looked at the 21 richest countries in the world and he listed how many paid vacation days they all get.

这不是靠雇主仁慈，而是每个公民依法必须享有的带薪休假天数。

Not because of the kindness of their employers, but how many paid vacation days every single person in these countries have to, have to, have to, have to get by law.

比如日本，每人每年法定有10天带薪假期，外加15天法定节假日。

And he found that Japan, for example, gets ten paid vacation days for everyone on top of 15 paid holidays.

澳大利亚是20天带薪假期加8天法定节假日。

Australia, 20 paid vacation days plus eight paid holidays.

西班牙则是25天带薪假期加14天法定节假日。

Spain, twenty five vacation days paid plus 14 paid holidays.

加起来，每个人每年能休整整39天，全都是带薪的。

We are talking thirty nine days off paid for everyone.

理发师、修车师傅、医生、面包师、托儿所工作人员、列车员。

Hairdressers, mechanics, doctors, bakers, day care workers, train operators.

这些国家的每一位员工都享有带薪休假的权利。

Every worker in these countries is guaranteed paid vacation.

实际上，全球所有最富裕国家的员工都法定享有带薪休假，唯独美国是个例外。

Actually, every worker in all of the richest countries in the world has to get paid vacation except for workers in one rich country, The US.

在美国，如果我能有三十一天、二十九天的带薪假期，那对你来说会是什么样子？

In America, if I could have thirty one, twenty nine days of paid vacation, what would that look like for you?

对你作为一名员工来说，那会是怎样的情景？

What would that look like for you as a worker?

这不只是富裕国家的问题。

And it's not just a rich country thing.

墨西哥、阿富汗、泰国、坦桑尼亚，这些国家在正规就业领域也都保障员工带薪休假。

Mexico, Afghanistan, Thailand, Tanzania, they all, at least in the formal job sector, guarantee paid vacation from work.

只有美国是特例。

The US is the outlier.

法律上连一天带薪假期都没有，法定假日也不给薪。

Zero paid vacation days and zero paid holidays by law.

天哪。

Dang.

而且，我们美国人哪怕从公司那儿挣到的那点假期，也常常没休完。

Oh, and the vacation that those of us in The US do get from our employers, we don't even take it all.

2018年，美国员工总共放弃了7.68亿天的应得假期，白白损失了大约650亿美元的休假福利。

In 2018, US workers left seven hundred and sixty eight million days of earned vacation on the table, literally forfeited about $65,000,000,000 worth of vacation benefits.

我们到底怎么了？

What is wrong with us?

大家好，欢迎收听《星球金钱》。

Hello, and welcome to Planet Money.

我是莎拉·冈萨雷斯。

I'm Sarah Gonzalez.

今天这期节目，我们来聊聊，这一切是怎么发生的？

Today on the show, why and how did this happen?

我们有一期2023年的节目，讲的是整个大陆乃至世界上大部分地区是怎么获得法定带薪假期的，而美国却错过了这个机会。

We have an episode from 2023 about how an entire continent, basically, and much of the world got all of this guaranteed paid vacation, and The US missed out.

这条广告来自Wise，专为全球使用资金的国际人士设计。

This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe.

你只需轻点几下，就能在多达40种货币之间转账、消费和收款。

You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps.

聪明一点。

Be smart.

用Wise吧。

Get Wise.

立即下载Wise应用，或访问wise.com。

Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com.

条款细则适用。

Ts and Cs apply.

最近我一直在反复思考时间，还有空闲时间这件事。

I've been thinking a lot about time and free time lately.

我最近有个小故事，关于我的假期。我有整整两百个小时的年假没用，而且过期不能结转到下一年。

And a little personal vacation backstory, I recently had two hundred hours of vacation that I had not used and could not roll over into the next year.

眼看就要作废了。

I was going to lose them.

我一个编辑跟我说：‘要不我帮你争取一下，就这一次，让你把假期留下来？’

And one of my editors was like, I can probably go to bat for you and get you to keep those vacation hours, like like just this this one time.

我说：不用了。

And I said, nah.

没事的。

It's fine.

就让它作废吧。

I'll just lose them.

因为我刚生完孩子，休了产假，我实在没法刚回来就再请一大段假。

Because I had just had a baby, I took maternity leave, and I was like, I can't just come back from leave and then take a bunch of vacation.

那样我会觉得特别愧疚。

I would feel so guilty.

但最近，我开始想，等等。

But recently, I've been like, hold on.

两百个小时？

Two hundred hours?

那是整整一个月带薪假期，我却让它白白浪费了。

That's that's a whole month off of work paid that I left on the table.

在如今这么缺空闲时间的情况下，这可是太多了。

That is that is so much free time when free time feels so scarce to me these days.

这不只是我一个人这样。

And it's not just me.

这个国家里，超过一半有带薪假期的人，都没用完他们的假期。

More than half of the people in this country who are lucky to get paid vacation don't use it all.

为什么呢？

And why?

我们为什么会这样？

Why do we do this?

我们为什么不用假呢？

Why do we not use our vacation?

而且为什么在这里，休假反而像是一种特权？

And and why is vacation seen like a privilege here?

好像得慢慢攒着，还不一定有。

Something you wait to accrue if you get it at all.

美国有一半的低薪工人根本拿不到带薪假期。

Half of low wage workers in The US don't get any paid vacation.

于是我开始联系经济学家和历史学家，问他们这是为什么。

So I started calling economists and historians asking them why.

结果听到的都是同一个说法。

And I kept hearing the same thing.

欧洲人比美国人更看重休闲。

Europeans just value leisure far more than Americans do.

我不接受这种说法，事情肯定没那么简单。

And I do not accept this response because there has to be more to it.

为什么？

Why?

为什么他们——我是说，我其实挺看重空闲时间的。

Why do they I I mean, like, I value free time, I think.

嗯，好吧。

Well, I okay.

为什么美国人不把休假当作一种权利来重视？

Why don't Americans prioritize the right to to vacations?

有几个原因。

There are a couple of things.

加里·克罗斯是一位研究空闲时间的历史学家。

Gary Cross is a historian who has written a book about free time.

他将为我们提供关于休假的历史背景。

He's gonna give us some historical context on vacation here.

他说，美国从未认真尝试过将带薪休假确立为一项权利。

And he says The US has never even gotten close to seriously trying for paid vacation as a right.

在所有人们争取的权利中，带薪休假从来就不在其中。

Of all the things, the rights that people have pushed for, paid vacation has never been a part of that list.

从来就没有过。

It's it's never been.

在欧洲，各国确实大力推动了休假权利，而且他们不是向各自的雇主提出要求。

In Europe, countries did push for vacation in in big, big ways, And they didn't ask their individual employers.

他们在二十世纪二十年代和三十年代向联邦政府提出诉求，最终得到了保障。

They asked their federal governments in the nineteen twenties and the nineteen thirties, and they got it.

他们一直在问：为什么只有贵族才能享受闲暇？

They had been saying, like, why do just the aristocrats get leisure?

这个观念在整个欧洲传播开来。

And this idea spread across Europe.

每个人都应该拥有片刻的喘息，从日常的城市生活和现代经济压力中暂时解脱出来。

That everybody should have some moments of some period of release from from ordinary urban and modern economic life.

加里说，工作之余的休息、休假，曾受到许多政党和宗教团体的支持，但同时也被用来做一些相当糟糕的事情。

Gary says time off from work, vacation, was popular across many political parties and religious groups, and it was also used for some pretty awful things too.

加里说，意大利的法西斯党和德国的纳粹党，尽管在备战，却反而鼓励人们休闲。

The the fascist party in Italy, the Nazis in Germany, Gary says they actually encouraged leisure also even as they were preparing for war.

有点讽刺的是，让他们的国民成为战士的手段之一，居然是给他们放假期。

It's kind of ironic that one of the tools to make your citizens into warriors was to give them a vacation.

但这确实是他们做过的事情之一。

But that's one of the things that that they did.

工人会被送到湖边或海边，当然，他们也因此对政权产生了忠诚。

You know, workers would be sent to the lakes or to the seashore, but they would, of course, develop loyalties to the regime.

是的。

Yeah.

这种忠诚是通过休闲建立起来的。

It was loyalty through leisure.

加里认为，对休息和休假的重视并不是突然出现的。

And Gary says this emphasis on downtime, on on time off from work did not just pop up out of nowhere.

他认为这源于欧洲长期以来的节日传统，比如中世纪那些持续数日的民间庆典和习俗。

He thinks it stems from Europe's long tradition of festivals, like days long folk festivals and customs in medieval times.

狂欢节、谢肉节、夏至庆典，这些都像是早期的休假形式，持续好几天，人们会暂停日常的工作。

Carnival and Mardi Gras and midsummer celebrations, which were kind of like the the early version of the vacation in the sense that they were multiple days where people stopped doing ordinary work.

是的。

Yeah.

那可是好几天的玩乐时光。

It was multiple days of playing.

而美国并没有这种全民停工、全民庆祝的传统。

And The US just didn't have this same kind of festival all work stops tradition.

当欧洲人来到现在的新英格兰地区时，加里说，大多是基督徒拒绝了这些节日，这也引出了一个普遍的看法：美国人骨子里有一种源自宗教的勤奋工作精神。

When Europeans came to The US to what is now New England, Gary says it was largely Christians who rejected those kinds of festivals, which brings us to a big commonly held belief that Americans just have this deeply ingrained work ethic that stems from religion.

我们说的就是清教徒或新教的工作伦理——工作是神圣的，浪费时间则是不虔诚的。

We are talking about the Puritan or Protestant work ethic here that that it is godly to work and ungodly to waste time.

传统观点当然认为，闲散是魔鬼的工坊，类似的说法还有很多。

You know, the traditional view is, of course, idleness is the devil's workshop or, you know, there are various versions of that.

但你不必相信魔鬼，也会觉得一旦闲下来，好像就在白白浪费宝贵的时间。

But you don't have to believe in the devil to feel that when you're idle, you are somehow another wasting precious time.

是的。

Yeah.

加里说，你不一定非得信新教教义，也能接受这种工作观。

Gary says you don't necessarily have to believe in the Protestant doctrine to adopt this work ethic.

他认为这种观念已经演变了。

He thinks it's evolved and changed.

你可以说，所谓的清教徒工作伦理，其实更像是一种资本主义的工作观。

You could make the argument that the so called puritan work ethic is really the kind of capitalist work ethic.

加里还说，其他社会并没有像美国这样对闲散感到内疚。

And Gary says other societies don't really have the same kind of guilt for idleness that The US does.

我就是这样的。

I mean, I'm like that.

你知道的。

You know?

说实话，要是我在海滩上闲待上一星期，我都会有点坐不住。

And, frankly, I get a little anxious if I'm just hanging around a beach for a week.

你知道吧。

You know?

我有一些德国朋友，他们完全不觉得焦虑。

And I have German friends who don't aren't anxious at all.

那我这股劲儿到底是打哪儿来的呢？

And and, you know, where did I get it?

我也说不清楚。

I don't know.

是的。

Yeah.

但有些经济学家特别反感这种新教伦理的说法。

But some economists really hate this Protestant Puritan work ethic argument.

哎，话不能这么说。

But look, come on now.

新教伦理这说法，我经常听到，可是

Protestant ethic, I get that all the time and yet

这位是丹尼尔·哈默梅什。

This is Daniel Hammermesh.

但话说回来，新教伦理到底是从哪儿来的呢？

And yet, where did the Protestant ethic originate?

源自瑞士的加尔文派信徒。

In Switzerland with the Calvinists.

明白吧？

Okay?

可瑞士人每年假期多得不得了。

And yet the Swiss get a lot of public holidays.

他们能休四到五周的带薪假。

They get four or five weeks of paid vacation.

所以说，最讲究新教伦理的人，其实也特别爱休假。

So the ultimate Protestant ethic people are taking a lot of time off also.

丹尼尔是德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校的劳动经济学家，还写过一本关于时间的书。

Daniel is a labor economist at the University of Texas at Austin who also wrote a book about time.

对他来说，新教伦理这个说法站不住脚，因为1979年的时候，美国人的平均工作时间跟其他富裕国家，比如加拿大、澳大利亚、法国，其实差不多。

And for him, the Protestant work ethic argument doesn't fly because in 1979, The US worked about the same amount on average as other rich countries, Canada, Australia, France.

那时候，大家每年的工作时长都差不多。

We all worked the same amount of hours per year.

但1979年之后，这些富裕国家都大幅减少了工作时间，越来越倾向于多休息，唯独美国没变。

It's just after 1979, all of those rich countries sharply began cutting their hours, working less, but not The US.

在这方面，我们绝对是特例。

We are an absolute outlier in this regard.

这真让人感到沮丧。

It's very depressing.

丹尼尔对时间以及我们如何使用时间，有着非常强烈的看法。

Daniel feels very strongly about time and how we spend it.

在他看来，这正是我们人生中最根本的经济选择。

For him, this is the ultimate economic choice we make.

因为我们的生活，本质上就是把时间跟金钱结合起来。

Because in our lives, we combine time with money.

钱和时间总是绑在一起的，而你总有一样是不够的。

Money and time go together, and one of them is always scarce for you.

你是选择多干活多赚钱，还是少干活多攒时间？

Do you work more for more money or work less for more time?

这正是经济人理论的核心模型——它认为，人追求的是最大化的幸福感，而这种幸福不仅来自有钱花，也来自有时间去花这些钱。

This is the the model of the economic man theory, which basically says that the model person maximizes happiness or, you know, utility, and that happiness comes from not just having money to spend, but also having time to spend that money.

丹尼尔研究过人们每天每一分钟的花费数据。

Now, Daniel has looked at data on how people spend every minute of their day.

他说，实际上，美国和欧洲人每周的工作时长差不多。

And he says, actually, people in The US and Europe work the same amount of hours every week.

我们大多数人每周的工作时间都差不多。

We all generally have a hour work week.

差别只在于，美国人工作的周数更多。

It's just The US works more weeks.

他说，造成这种差异的唯一原因，就是我们休的假太少了。

And the only only reason for this, he says, is because we take less vacation.

如果你算一下，丹尼尔说欧洲人每天的工作时间比我们少一个半小时。

If you do the math, Daniel says people in Europe work about an hour and a half less every day.

这一个半小时的差距，对我来说感觉太小了。

So this this 1.5 difference to me feels so small.

一天八小时里少一个半小时，从经济角度看可是相当大的差别。

An hour and a half a day out of eight, that's a huge amount in economic terms.

这相当于每周多放一天假。

It's the equivalent of one day off a week.

没错。

Right.

那就是星期五。

That's that's Friday.

那就等于我们每周五都放假。

That would be like we got every Friday off.

是每周五放假，还是每周一？

Every Friday off or every Monday?

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

这可是个不小的差别。

That's that's a big difference.

那好吧。

So alright.

丹尼尔研究过人们每天每一分钟的花费数据，他本来是我的突破口。

Daniel, who has looked at data on how people spend every minute of their day, he was gonna be my ticket.

他应该能解释清楚，为什么美国相比其他国家工作时间变长了。

He's gotta have the answers for why The US relative to other countries started working more.

这个问题我没法回答。

I have no answer to that one.

事实就是如此。

It just factually did.

等等。

So wait.

我的意思是，你可是研究时间与工作的经济学家，竟然对为什么我们比其他国家工作得多毫无解释？

I mean, you you are like a time work guy, a time work economist, and you don't have an answer for why we work so much compared to your view?

没有。

No.

完全没有任何解释。

Completely.

有的只是各种说不出所以然的说法。

Have a lot of non answers.

说不出所以然的说法。

Non answers.

我就收下吧。

I'll take it.

咱们来一步步排除一下可能性，各位。

We're gonna do a little little process of elimination here, people.

有两个挺有意思的答非所问。

There are two fun non answers.

第一个跟个人所得税有关。

And the first has to do with income taxes.

丹尼尔说，一些右翼经济学家和宏观经济学家认为，美国人工作时间更长，是因为我们的个税比一些欧洲国家低。

Daniel says some right leaning economists and macro economists believe that we in The US work more because our income tax is lower than some European countries.

他们的说法是，欧洲税率高，人们就会想：我干嘛要这么拼命上班？

The argument is because Europe tends to have a higher income tax, people in Europe will go like, why am I gonna show up for work so much?

反正税也收得够多了。

They're gonna just tax me so much.

不如少干点。

Let me just work less.

这说法根本站不住脚。

It doesn't make sense.

这就是他们的论点。

That's the argument.

因为美国的所得税比较低，我们会觉得，哎，我能多留一点钱，所以更有动力继续上班，而不是请假。

Because our income tax is lower in The United States, we go like, oh, I get to keep a little bit more money so it makes sense for me to keep showing up to work and not take time off.

这就是这个观点。

That is the argument.

这是经济学里最古老的想法之一：你到手的工资越多，就越有动力去工作。

This is one of the oldest ideas in economics that if you get to keep more of your paycheck, there's more incentive to work.

但你要记住，美国有很多人是没有带薪假期的。

And you have to remember here that a lot of people in The US do not get paid vacation.

所以对他们来说，选择工作而不是休假的动机更强。

So the incentives for them to work instead of taking time off are bigger.

丹尼尔也认同这个前提。

And and Daniel agrees with this premise.

丹尼尔说，从数据上看，确实多留一点钱会让你多干一点，但多得非常非常少。

When you look at the data, Daniel says getting to keep more of your paycheck does make you work more, but just a little little bit more.

这点差别太小了，根本解释不了欧美之间的差异。

It's quite small and far too small to account for any difference between Europe and The US.

所以，那种因为税收导致的欧美差异，跟人们在现实生活中实际行为的数据并不相符。

So that European American difference because of taxes just is not consistent with the evidence on how people in individual society behave.

那我把这个说法去掉吧。

So I'll I'll erase that one.

不过，有些宏观经济学家和保守派经济学家还是会说，不，这确实还是个原因？

Although some macro economists and conservative economists would say no, yes, that is still a reason?

是的。

Yes.

但那些引用这个说法的人，通常是没仔细看过个人行为数据的宏观经济学家。

But the people who quote that are typically macro economists who really haven't looked at the evidence of individuals.

明白了。

Alright.

这就是那个有趣却避实就虚的保守派论点。

So that is the fun conservative non answered argument.

自由派的观点是，美国人是个消费社会，大企业广告商在利用消费者，像牵着马跑一样，在我们眼前晃着胡萝卜，通过广告让我们想拼命工作，好买得起那些想要的东西——第三辆车、更大的房子，随便什么。

The lefty argument is that Americans are a consumerist society and rich corporate advertisers are exploiting the consumers, holding these little carrots in front of our nose like a horse being urged to run, incentivizing us through these advertisements to wanna work more and more to afford all these wonderful things we wanna buy, a third car, a larger house, you name it.

这个观点 basically 是说，美国人被灌输了要多工作，为了赚更多钱去买更多东西，因为我们每天都被广告轰炸。

This argument is basically that people in The US are programmed to work more because we wanna make more money to buy more stuff because we are inundated with advertisements.

真够悲观的。

Bleak.

而且说实话，这种可能性是存在的。

And, you know, it's quite possible.

但问题在于，欧洲的企业控制一点不比我们少。

But the empirical problem with that is there's just as much corporate control in Europe.

广告也一样多，我真不信欧洲人比我们聪明到能免疫这些操控，完全不被牵着鼻子走。

There is just as much advertising, and I can't believe that Europeans are so much smarter than us that they don't get themselves get led by the nose by these people.

既然广告数量没差别，人性也没差别，那为什么他们在休假这件事上会跟我们差这么多呢？

So it's hard to see why with no difference in the amount of advertising, no difference in our basic nature, why they should have this different outcome in terms of vacations from what we have.

所以，这个阴暗又带点左翼色彩的观点——说我们拼命工作就是为了买买买，丹尼尔也不买账。

So the fun, dark, lefty argument that we work more to buy more because of advertisers, Daniel says this one doesn't fly for him either.

到目前为止，我们还是没找到靠谱的解释。

So so far, we have no great answers.

我现在真的快没辙了，总觉得肯定有什么原因。

I'm, like, at this point desperate for an answer, and I'm like, there has to be something.

肯定不是因为我们这些人本质上就那么不一样。

Like, there has to be we're not just, like, so inherently different as people.

没错。

No.

我们根本就没什么本质区别。

We're not at all different as people.

确实没什么区别。

We're not at all.

对啊。

Right.

我之前已经解释过一些观点，还能反驳它们。

I mean, again, I can refute certain things explaining it as I have.

我能说‘不对’，但说不清‘为什么对’。

So I can say no, but I can't say why yes.

明白吗？

Okay?

不明白。

No.

一点都不行，丹尼尔。

Not okay, Daniel.

于是我继续去问更多的经济学家和劳动历史学者，到底是什么原因让休假在美国从来不是重点，为什么我们连好不容易有的假期都不好好休。

So I just kept asking more economists and more labor historians what really does explain why vacation has never been a big priority in The US and why we don't even take the vacation that we do get.

最后，有个人建议我去找麻省理工的这位学者试试。

And eventually, someone said, try this guy at MIT.

直到广告之后，我才终于得到了一个让人满意的答案。

And finally, I got a satisfying answer after the break.

没错，美国确实有工作狂的名声。

So, yes, The US has a reputation for being workaholics.

我们担心如果休太多假，别人会觉得我们不够努力，或者会错失职业发展的机会。

We worry we won't be seen as hardworking if we take a lot of time off or that we'll miss out on career opportunities.

正因为这样，美国给人的印象是，我们更看重钱而不是时间。

And kind of because this, The US has this reputation that we value money more than time.

而欧洲人则被认为更看重时间，看重休闲。

And and Europeans have this reputation of valuing time more, leisure.

但说实话，法国人并不是天生就崇尚休闲，反而是我们从小就被灌输了对金钱的重视。

But I mean, you know, like French people are not just born valuing leisure, but but we come out valuing money.

这根本不是天生的。

That's not a thing.

一定有什么原因造成了这种现象。

Something must have caused this.

对吧？

Right?

为了解开这个疑问，我去找了MIT的汤姆·科恩，他休假时还特意离开湖边小屋来接受这次采访。

So for a satisfying answer on this one, I went to Tom Cohen at MIT who left a lake house during vacation to do this interview.

所以你也是个工作狂，跟我们其他人一样。

So you're a workaholic also like the rest of us.

我认罪。

Guilty as charged.

汤姆研究工作、就业和工会，他说在上世纪三十年代，工会曾经帮工人争取到了他们想要的权益。

Tom studies work and employment and unions, and he says there was a time when unions helped workers get the things that they asked for in the nineteen thirties.

那时候我们有了最低工资、加班费，还有社会保障。

That's when we got the minimum wage and overtime and Social Security.

但汤姆说，那是个非常特殊的历史时刻，当时工人的力量超过了企业。

But Tom says it was a very unique moment in history when workers had more power than businesses.

但那之后，汤姆说企业又重新夺回了主导权。

But after that, Tom says businesses regained power again.

他们开始说，我们不希望联邦政府强制规定员工福利。

And and they started saying, we don't want the federal government to mandate worker benefits.

这些事我们自己说了算。

We'll decide that.

如果有必要，我们会根据劳动力市场的变化做出调整，以留住员工并保持竞争力。

We will respond to the labor market if necessary to keep our workers and to be competitive in the labor market.

但别来教我们该怎么经营企业、该怎么对待员工。

But don't tell us how we should run our enterprise and how we should treat our workforce.

汤姆说，上世纪三十年代是我们难得的机会，有可能实现带薪休假这样的保障。

Tom says the nineteen thirties was kind of our window, our our chance to get something like guaranteed paid vacation.

但汤姆提到，那时候有些工会其实对休假这件事是有所保留的。

But Tom says back then, some unions actually kinda drew a line at vacation.

工会里也有一种看法，认为我们不一定非得通过立法来争取所有这些福利。

There's also a view among unions that, look, we don't necessarily have to push for all of these things, through legislation.

因为一旦政府全包了，人们可能会问：那我还留着工会干嘛？

Because then if we did, then people might say, well, why do I need a union?

所以，这确实是工会内部公认的一个想法：如果所有福利都由联邦政府规定，那工会就失去意义了？

Oh, so this is like an this is like a known thing that unions like, if we ask for everything at the federal level, there would be no point in union?

没错。

Absolutely.

尤其是美国劳工联合会，一直很明确地强调：这些事应该由私营部门自己决定。

The AFL, American Federation of Labor in particular, was very strong on saying, this is this is for the private sector.

这正是工会存在的意义。

This is for, what unions exist to do.

情况越来越复杂了。

The plot thickens.

我们被拖后腿了。

We were sabotaged.

不是的。

No.

不过，这确实是当时事情发展的一种解释。

But, yeah, this is one of the interpretations for how things went down back then.

汤姆说，这也许就是为什么最后我们没能通过联邦政策获得一系列福利。

And Tom says, this is maybe why in the end, we didn't get a bunch of benefits guaranteed by federal policy.

假期只是这种顾虑的一个例子。

Vacation was just one example of this concern.

除了假期之外，还有哪些其他方面呢？

What were some of the other things outside of vacation?

养老金。

Pensions.

养老金、私人养老金、医疗保险。

Pension, private pensions, health insurance.

这三样是最重要的。

Those are the the the the big three.

这三大项。

The big three.

养老金、医疗保险、带薪休假，这些都没被列入保障范围。

Pensions, health insurance, time off through vacations were left off the table.

取而代之的是，我们获得了集体谈判权，也就是说，我们可以和各自的雇主协商养老金、医疗保障和休假问题。

Instead, we got collective bargaining rights, which basically say we can bargain and negotiate with our individual employers for pension, health care, and vacation.

我们还得提一句，美国之所以没把这些职场福利立法保障，跟种族主义也有关系。

Now we should say that The US is also known for not passing these work benefits because of racism.

当时很多美国人并不希望黑人等群体享受到这些福利。

A bunch of people in The US back then didn't want black people, for example, to get these benefits.

所以没人得到这些福利。

So no one got them.

但在欧洲，每个人都能享有这三大权益：休假、养老金和医疗保障。

But in Europe, everyone gets the big three, vacation, pension, health care as a right.

欧洲的休假制度从上世纪20到30年代开始普及，医疗保障则是在40年代、70年代和80年代分阶段建立起来的。

Vacation started spreading in Europe in the 1920s and 30s, and health care came in waves in the 1940s, 70s, and 80s.

也许这就是为什么欧洲国家从1979年后开始缩短工时，而美国却没有。

And maybe this is why European countries started cutting their hours after 1979, but not The US.

欧洲人可能觉得：好吧，我们已经拥有了这些福利，而且整体上也越来越富裕。

Like, maybe Europeans were like, okay, we're getting all these benefits, plus we're just generally getting richer.

也许工作本身没那么重要了。

Maybe work is not so important anymore.

但当你像在美国那样，必须自己承担这些开支时，工作自然就变得至关重要了。

But when you do have to pay for these things like we do in The US, maybe that's why work is so important here.

所以当你还得为医疗保险和养老金去谈判时，申请休假就只能排到清单最下面了。

And so when you do have to negotiate for health insurance pension, asking for vacation kind of falls to the bottom of the list.

是的

Yeah.

这优先级低多了。

It's a much lower priority.

我觉得这确实是最能解释我们差异的原因。

I mean, this does seem like the best argument to me about how why we differ.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

明白了。

Okay.

是的

Yes.

如果可以选择的话，历史上工人更关心的是到手工资上涨，而不是其他。

If given the the the option, workers are historically more interested in seeing their take home pay increase than they are Yeah.

多休一天或一周假。

In getting another day or week of vacation.

我现在完全明白了。

It makes so much more sense to me now.

我们并不是比别人更看重钱。

Like, we don't just value money more than other people.

也许我们只是需要钱来付医疗保险之类的费用。

Maybe maybe we just need money to pay for health insurance or whatever.

这种感觉真不错。

This this feels good.

我觉得这样才对。

This feels right to me.

就连丹尼尔·哈默梅什，他虽然不认同任何相关理论，但也认可汤姆的观点。

And even Daniel Hammermesh, who doesn't like any of the theories on this, he likes Tom's theory.

我也喜欢这个说法。

I like that one.

我之前没听过这个说法。

I hadn't heard it.

可能不对，但我也没法证明他错了。

It's probably wrong, but at least I can't prove he's wrong.

比起其他所有解释，这已经算很不错了。

And that's pretty good compared to all the other explanations.

我会告诉丹尼尔，你这么说的。

I'm gonna tell him you said that, Daniel.

不，我是真的喜欢这个观点。

No, like it.

好吧，丹尼尔喜欢这个说法。

Okay, he likes it.

但丹尼尔真正想说的是，我们找答案的方向搞错了。

But really, Daniel says, we're looking for answers in the wrong place.

他说，经济学解决不了这个问题。

He says, economics cannot answer this one.

我怎么强调都不为过，尽管我非常喜欢经济学，但归根结底，这还是个政治问题。

I can't stress enough, as much as I love economics, in the end, this is a political issue.

对。

Yeah.

丹尼尔说，这其实关乎政治意愿和政治上的接受度。

Daniel says this is really about political will and the political appetite.

但他提到，讨论休假问题，质疑为什么美国是唯一一个不保障休假的富裕国家，这种讨论很有价值。

But he says talking about vacation and questioning why The US is the only rich country that doesn't guarantee it is valuable.

因为我可以在人们心里种下这样的想法：也许还有别的可能。

Because I can put in people's heads the idea that maybe there is a different way.

只要大家开始谈论它，让这个话题进入公众视野，我觉得就能促使人们去关注这个问题。

And the very fact of talking about it and getting it out there in the public, I think, should stimulate people to worry about that.

这正是我今天跟你聊这个的原因。

That's the reason I'm talking to you today about this.

丹尼尔说，讨论休假有助于改变整个社会的文化。

Daniel says talking about vacation can help change the culture.