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本周NPR政治播客。
This week on the NPR Politics Podcast.
特朗普政府将暴力犯罪大幅下降归功于自己。
The Trump administration is taking credit for a major drop in violent crime.
谋杀、抢劫、袭击，在大城市和小城镇都有所下降。
Murder, robbery, assault, all down in big cities and small towns.
我们将深入分析这些数据，看看事情是否真的像总统说的那么简单。欢迎收听NPR政治播客。
We're gonna dig into the numbers and unpack whether this is really as simple as the president claims it is on the NPR Politics Podcast.
请在NPR应用或任何你收听播客的地方收听。
Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
这里是NPR的《金钱星球》节目。
This is Planet Money from NPR.
我从未见过我的《金钱星球》搭档埃里卡·巴里斯这么紧张。
I have never heard my Planet Money cohost Erica Barris this nervous before.
你好，埃里卡。
Hello, Erica.
我在车里。
I'm in the car.
好的。
Okay.
你车里的人都能听到我说话吗？
Can everyone in your car hear me?
不能。
No.
这是只有我们俩之间的事。
This is between you and me.
Erica基本上放下了一切，飞到了洛杉矶，因为她有机会进入那个房间，进入那个系统，甚至可能参与其中——在那个系统里，一小群人决定了我们走进全国最大的商店时能看到和选择哪些产品。
Erica had essentially dropped everything to fly to Los Angeles because there was a chance she might get inside the room, inside the system, maybe even participate in the system where a relatively tiny group of people decide what products we all get to see and choose from when we walk into the country's biggest stores.
好吧。
Alright.
那你现在在哪儿？
So where are you right now?
我在酒店房间里，离爆炸小猫办公室大概两英里。
I am in my hotel room about two miles from the Exploding Kittens office.
爆炸小猫就是我们合作制作《Planet Money》桌游的那家公司。
Exploding Kittens is the company we've been working with to create the Planet Money board game.
如果你对这个项目还不熟悉，那就来回顾一下吧。
If you're new to this whole project, well, cue the recap.
我们正在制作一款游戏。
We are making a game.
我、正在收听节目的你们，还有艾丽卡·巴里斯一起。
Me, and you all listening at home and Erica Barris too.
艾丽卡，来帮我一起回顾一下。
Erica, come come help me with this recap.
嗯？
Yes?
好的。
Yes.
好的，没问题。
Gladly.
在之前的几期节目里，我们讲过我们和游戏公司Exploding Kittens合作，想设计一款游戏，灵感来自获得诺贝尔奖的经济学论文《柠檬市场》。
In previous episodes, we've told you the story of how we partnered with the game company Exploding Kittens to try and design a game inspired by the Nobel Prize winning economics paper, The Market for Lemons.
那篇论文讲的就是二手车市场里的信息不对称。
That paper is literally about asymmetric information in the market for used cars.
但更广泛地说，它讲的是当一方比另一方知道得更多时，做交易会导致混乱、不信任，最终摧毁整个市场。
But broadly, it's about how making deals when one side knows more than the other side causes chaos, distrust, and ultimately destroys a market.
我们根据这个做的游戏不是关于二手车的。
Our game version of that is not about used cards.
我们决定把它做成关于怪物的，而且我们选好了名字。
We decided it should be about monsters, and we chose a name.
游戏叫《卖我一个大脚怪》。
It's called Sell Me a Sasquatch.
《卖我一个大脚怪》。
Sell Me a Sasquatch.
现在，听众朋友们，你们帮我们完善了这个游戏。在游戏里，玩家手里会有一把牌，上面画着可爱的小神话生物。
Now you, listeners, you helped us refine this game, and in it, our players have hands of cards with cute little mythical creatures on them.
然后玩家们互相出价，想拿到最好的生物，但同时也可能想骗朋友收下那些糟糕的生物卡，因为信息不对称嘛。
And then the players offer deals to each other, trying to get the best creatures, but also maybe trying to trick their friends into accepting terrible creature cards because asymmetric information.
你只需要展示交易的一部分。
You only ever have to show part of the deal.
我们当初决定做这个游戏，其中一个原因就是，它可以作为我们的特洛伊木马，让我们能进入一个Planet Money之前从未涉足过的世界。
One of the reasons we decided to make this game in the first place is so it could be our Trojan horse to report inside a world that no other Planet Money project has entered.
就是那些真实的大卖场里的真实货架。
The real shelves at real big box retail stores.
我们觉得，做一款Exploding Kittens的派对游戏，是我们潜入那个世界的最佳机会。
And we think making an Exploding Kittens party game gives us the best chance of sneaking into that world.
所以，对，这就是我们的计划。
So, yes, that's the deal.
这也是为什么Erica会出现在洛杉矶的Exploding Kittens总部。
And that is why Erica was at Exploding Kittens headquarters in Los Angeles.
这就是为什么他们让她基本上放下手头的一切，因为一家大型零售公司的两位代表正在前往小猫办公室的路上。
It's why they had told her essentially to drop everything because two representatives from a humongous big box company were on their way to visit the Kittens office.
那两位代表是桌游专家，他们走遍全国，筛选数百款新游戏，决定哪几款新游戏能上他们公司的货架。
Those representatives are board game experts traveling the country sifting through hundreds of new games to decide which handful of new games will get space on their company's shelves.
如果我们想让Planet Money桌游进入大型零售店，现在就是关键时刻。
This is the moment if we wanna get the Planet Money board game into big box retail.
所以，我正和你通着电话，然后我就要赶过去。
So I I'm doing this call with you, and then I'm heading over there.
好的。
Okay.
你能进到那个房间去推销吗？
And are you gonna get in the room for the pitch?
就是说，这事进展到哪一步了？
Like, where where did this land?
已经定下来了。
It landed.
他们昨晚给我发了邮件，说确认你可以进房间参加推介会。
They emailed me last night, and he said that confirmation that you can be in the room for the pitch.
所以，哦。
So Oh.
我知道。
I know.
我有点觉得，也许我不必做这个。
I part of me was like, maybe I don't have to do this.
但是
But
但是，是的，艾丽卡不只是要在房间里。
But, yeah, Erica was not just going to be in the room.
她得为《金钱星球》游戏做推介。
She was going to have to do the pitch for the Planet Money game.
这可是件大事。
This is a pretty big deal.
我尽量不去想这件事有多重要，以及投入了多少工作。
I'm trying not to think how much of a big deal it is and how much work has gone into.
这确实很重要。
It's really big.
要不要我提醒你它有多重要？
Is it helpful if I remind you how big it is?
不要。
No.
这差不多就是全部了。
It's It's sort of the whole thing.
不是的。
It's not.
不过，我有一个提案。
I have a pitch, though.
我，嗯，自己演练过几次。
I I, like, talked myself through it a few times.
我坐在飞机上，自己在那儿嘀嘀咕咕的，你得知道我当时有多投入，就是那种，对，我能行。
I was sitting on the airplane, like, kinda mumbling to myself being like, and the thing you gotta know is how devoted I was just like, yeah.
我能搞定。
I got this.
我能搞定。
I got this.
我会有一些手臂动作要做的。
I have I have arm movements that are gonna happen.
所以，好吧。
So okay.
你能行的，艾瑞卡。
You got this, Erica.
你能行的。
You got this.
好的。
Alright.
拜拜。
Bye.
拜拜。
Bye.
拜拜。
Bye.
大家好，欢迎收听《金钱星球》。
Hello, and welcome to Planet Money.
我是肯尼·马龙。
I'm Kenny Malone.
我是艾丽卡·巴里斯。
And I'm Erica Barris.
今天节目里，我们要走进一个秘密房间，它可能决定我们《金钱星球》游戏的成败。
And today on the show, we are going inside the secret room that could make or break our Planet Money game.
还要走进那些决定大型连锁店卖什么的人们的内心世界。
And inside the minds of the people who decide what gets to be in big box stores.
我们难得有机会近距离观看那种鲨鱼坦克式的过程，基本上所有商店货架都是这样被填满的。
We get a once in a lifetime front row seat for the shark tank way that essentially all the store shelves get filled at
哦，对。
Oh, right.
另外，我们还会解释为什么我们不能透露我们获得了哪家大型零售商的特殊访问权限。
Also, we will explain why we cannot say which specific big box retail company we got unusual access to.
敬请期待。
Stay tuned.
这条消息来自Home Serve。
This message comes from Home Serve.
水管爆裂、热水器坏了、空调罢工。
A burst pipe, a dead water heater, the AC calling it quits.
你找谁？
Who do you call?
Home Serve是处理意外家居维修的简便方式，其计划覆盖了基本房屋保险通常不包含的项目。
Home Serve is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff basic homeowners insurance usually won't.
不用再手忙脚乱地找承包商了，你只需要打一个电话就能开始维修流程。
Instead of scrambling for a contractor, you make one call to get the repair process started.
现在就加入数百万信任Home Serve的客户吧。
Join the millions of customers who trust Home Serve right now.
访问homeserve.com/podcast，第一年可享受五折优惠。
Go to homeserve.com/podcast for 50% less your first year.
与续订价格相比的优惠，佛罗里达州除外。
Savings compared to renewal price void in Florida.
美国国债首次突破40万亿美元，这个庞大的数字直接影响你的钱包。
For the first time, US government debt has surpassed $40,000,000,000,000, a massive number that affects your bottom line.
本周的《Consider This》节目，我们将把国家债务与你的车贷、房贷、小企业贷款等联系起来。
This week on consider this, we connect the dots between the national debt and your car payment, your mortgage, your small business loan, and so much more.
欢迎收听NPR的每日下午新闻播客《Consider This》。
Listen to consider this, the daily afternoon news podcast from NPR.
我有点惊讶地发现，在美国，81%的零售购物仍然发生在实体店。
I was somewhat stunned to learn that in The United States, 81% of our retail buying is still happening at brick and mortar locations.
比如说，根据第一资本的报告，我们每花五美元在零售上，就有四美元是在实体店消费的。
Like, four out of every $5 we spend on retail purchases is at a physical store according to a report from Capital One.
沃尔玛、克罗格、好市多、家得宝和塔吉特仍然是我们经济和生活中非常重要的一部分。
Walmart and Kroger and Costco and Home Depot and Target are still huge parts of our economy and our lives.
而且，大型零售商这个神秘的世界，我们从来没有机会深入了解过。
And and the secretive world of big box has been a place we've never gotten an inside look at.
你知道，当Planet Money团队从零开始做一件T恤时，我们并没有通过沃尔玛销售它。
You know, when the Planet Money team made a T shirt from scratch, we did not sell it through Walmart.
当我们推出一个唱片公司时，那首通胀歌曲的黑胶唱片也没有出现在塔吉特的货架上。
When when we launched a record label, the vinyl record for the inflation song was not on shelves at Target.
当我们拯救了一个被遗忘的超级英雄，后来还授权他做奶酪产品时，遗憾的是，好市多并没有提出要卖五磅重的微型脸陈年高达奶酪块。
And when we rescued a forgotten superhero who was then licensed for a cheese product, sadly, Costco did not offer to carry five pound blocks of micro face aged Gouda.
是的。
Yeah.
但说真的，大型零售商仍然是美国人生活中非常重要的一部分，我们只是还没有机会去了解它。
But, seriously, big box is still this hugely important corner of American life that we just haven't had the chance to understand.
没有。
No.
直到现在，希望如此。
Not until now, hopefully.
《金钱星球》桌游项目是我们第一次真正有机会尝试把产品带入现实世界，进入大型连锁店，这也是我们决定做这个游戏的原因之一。
The Planet Money board game project is the first serious chance we've had to try and follow a product into the real world, into Big Box in this way, and it's part of why we decided to make a game in the first place.
而在这之前，艾丽卡得先说服一家大型连锁公司接受我们的游戏。
And before any of that can happen, Erica was gonna have to convince a Big Box company to take our game.
好的。
Okay.
我到了。
So I am here.
距离艾丽卡的重要提案会议还有六个小时。
It is six hours before Erica's big pitch meeting.
是的。
Yeah.
我特别特别特别早就到了西好莱坞附近的爆炸小猫总部。
I arrived extra, extra, extra early at the exploding kittens headquarters near West Hollywood.
嘿，Thor。
Hey, Thor.
很高兴见到你。
Nice to meet you.
来，我可以把麦克风放下两秒钟。
Here, I can put my mic down for two seconds.
你听到的是Thor Ritz。
Is Thor Ritz you hear there.
他帮我们做这个游戏已经一年多了。
He has been helping us for over a year to make our game.
他一带我走进他们那个宽敞的开放式办公室，你就能看出每个人都在埋头准备这场非常重要的会议。
And the moment he walks me into their big open floor office space, you can tell everyone is heads down preparing for this hugely important meeting.
有进展吗，Steve？
Any luck, Steve?
那些能用吗？
Will those work?
也许吧。
They might.
这些是豆袋，通常用于
These are the beanbags for
游戏里。
the game usually.
哦。
Oh.
我和Thor走过团队，他们正围在一起研究一个全新的骰子游戏，那是绝密的。
Thor and I walked past the team huddled over a new dice game that's top secret.
但这是我们正在推销的游戏之一，叫闪电骰子。
But it's one of the games that we're pitching, lightning dice.
有个小团队正在做最后的实验，用一种新的塑料材料，它爆炸的方式很有趣，也很出人意料。
There's a small team doing last second experimenting with a new plastic material that sort of explodes in this fun, surprising way.
那我是不是就直接把它按下去？
So then I just sort of pop it down?
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
办公室里到处都是人，大家都在给游戏原型做最后的调整。
The office is full of people putting the final touches on game prototypes.
我们的游戏是《爆炸猫》计划向代表们展示的13款原型游戏之一，这些代表来自
Ours is one of 13 prototype games that Exploding Kittens is planning to pitch to the representatives from
啊，是的。
Ah, yes.
我们终于到了这个环节了。
We have arrived at the situation.
所以我们不会说出今天来办公室的那家大型连锁店的名字，因为Exploding Kittens告诉我们他们要和谁谈，以及他们正在做的交易。
So we are not saying the name of the big box store coming to the office today because Exploding Kittens told us who they're talking to, the deals they're making.
这类事情，你知道的，能成就他们的生意，也能毁掉他们的生意。
This is the kind of stuff that, you know, makes or breaks their business.
所以我们同意不录制实际的提案会议，也不透露会议中那家大型连锁店的实际名称。
And so we agreed to not record the actual pitch meeting and to not reveal the actual name of the big box store in that meeting.
但可以说，Exploding Kittens对这家公司的来访非常重视。
But suffice it to say, Exploding Kittens was taking this company's visit very seriously.
对。
Yeah.
我们来安排一下座位，看看大家应该坐哪里。
Let's go through seating where everyone should sit.
现在距离会议开始还有一小时。
It is now t minus one hour until the meeting.
我和Thor赶紧加入了一个紧急的提案准备电话会议。
And Thor and I jump onto an emergency pitch prep call.
大家怎么样？
How's everyone doing?
对。
Yeah.
没有。
No.
我挺好的。
I'm good.
好。
Okay.
我确实有很多意见。
I do have a lot of notes.
Elon Lee是Exploding Kittens的联合创始人。
Elon Lee is the cofounder of Exploding Kittens.
在Planet Money桌游项目里，他已经成了我们的朋友、我们的副驾驶、我们的智慧导师。
He has become our friend, our copilot, our general sage through the Planet Money board game project.
我该紧张吗？
Should I be nervous?
哦，不。
Oh, no.
你知道吗，他们其实都是很好的人。
You know, they're they're actually, they're really good guys.
不过，他们见过很多好游戏因为没有好的营销支持而失败。
However, they've seen the best games in the world fail without proper marketing support.
所以我们今天的目标就是，好，
So our goal today is to say, okay.
我们都喜欢这个游戏。
We all love this game.
每个玩过这个游戏的人都喜欢它。
Everyone who plays this game loves this game.
现在我们要告诉你，为什么它也会成为有史以来最畅销的游戏。
Now we're going to tell you why it's also going to be the best selling game of all time.
对。
Yeah.
大型连锁超市有一支庞大的采购团队，专门负责为自己负责的区域寻找和采购商品。
Big box companies have small armies of buyers in charge of finding and buying the things for their sections of the store.
有负责婴儿用品区的采购员，有负责化妆品区的，还有负责食品区的。
There are baby aisle buyers and cosmetics buyers and food buyers.
而今天，那个不能提名字的大型连锁超市的桌游采购员要来参观爆炸小猫的办公室。
And today, the Exploding Kittens office is going to be visited by the board game buyers from the big box store that that shall not be named.
这一整套流程，其实属于所谓的“产品线审查”，也就是对产品线进行季节性评估。
This whole song and dance is part of something called line review, as in a seasonal review of product lines.
零售采购员需要定期检查自己负责区域货架上的商品，决定哪些要保留，哪些要下架，而对我们来说最重要的是，决定下个季度要引进哪些新产品。
Retail buyers have to regularly look at what's on the shelves in their sections of their big box stores and decide what to keep, what to get rid of, and most importantly for us, what new products to add for the upcoming season.
但问题是，
But but here's the thing.
这种产品线审查，一年只进行两次。
This line review, this only happens twice a year.
这真的是我们唯一的机会，能把游戏样品展示给大型连锁店，然后问他们，你们愿意付钱让我们为你们生产几万套吗？
This really is our one chance to get a prototype of our game in front of the big box stores and then ask them, do you want to pay us to make tens of thousands of these things for you?
然后Thor告诉Erica，她用来向大型连锁店推销的时间非常有限。
And Thor tells Erica she's gonna have very little time to make that case to the big box store.
我们大概只有三到五分钟的时间。
We're probably talking between three and five minutes of
你是说别带这整个笔记本。
You're saying do not bring this entire notebook.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得你可以争取上限，比如接近五分钟。
I think you can aim for the upper end of that, like, closer to five minutes.
所以Elon解释说，计划是他会在房间里的大屏幕上做开场介绍。
So Elon explains that the plan is he'll be on a big screen in the room and do the setup.
他这时候已经和买家建立了深厚的信任。
He's built a lot of trust with the buyers at this point.
他不用担心说服他们游戏好不好。
He's not worried about convincing them that the game is good.
但他做不到的是，成为全国最受欢迎播客之一的可爱搭档，艾丽卡·巴里斯。
What he cannot do, though, is be beloved cohost of one of the most listened to podcasts in the country, Erica Barris.
不。
No.
停。
Stop.
停。
Stop.
继续说。
Go on.
不过说真的，这其实就是整个局面的关键所在。
Although, for real, though, this is kind of the whole ballgame right here.
我们和《爆炸猫》合作，部分是为了提高进入大型零售店的机会，但他们和我们合作，部分是因为大型零售的桌游市场竞争越来越激烈。
We partnered with Exploding Kittens in part to optimize our chance of getting into big box, but they partnered with us in part because the big box board game world is getting more and more competitive.
所以艾瑞卡的工作就是向这些采购商介绍我们的优势，介绍《金钱星球》、我们庞大的听众群体、我们做项目的经验，说白了，就是要抓住他们的注意力。
So Erica's job is to tell these buyers about our advantage, about Planet Money, our incredible audience, our history with projects, and, frankly, just to keep their attention.
他们有什么小动作吗？
Do they have tells?
比如摸鼻子，或者，嗯，成功之类的？
Like, they touch their nose or, like, success.
继续说。
Keep going.
继续说。
Keep going.
我确实见过他们做一些动作，表明他们肯定不会买，比如讲到一半他们开始看手机。
I've certainly have seen them do things that mean they're definitely not gonna buy it, which is, like, if they start checking their phones halfway through.
天哪。
Oh my god.
那真是太糟糕了。
That's so terrible.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这些我们都见过。
We've seen all of that.
就像我们
Like We
做了无数次这样的会面。
did countless of these.
我们只是他们同样会见的众多人之一。
Like, we are just one of many people that they do the same sort of meeting with.
所以，是的。
So Yeah.
就是这样了。
Like, this is it.
对吧？
Right?
我们大概还有七分钟，然后就结束了。
We have, like, seven more minutes before, and then that's it.
我们现在想出来的东西，就是房间里需要的内容。
Whatever we figure out now, that's what we need for the room.
那我还需要知道什么？
So what else should I know?
别紧张。
Don't be nervous.
微笑。
Smile.
他们的工作非常非常难，因为他们要预测未来，而这是不可能的。
They have a very, very difficult job because they're trying to tell the future, and that's not possible.
所以很多时候，他们最好的工具就是押注在人身上，而不是押注在项目上。
So a lot of times, what the the best tool they have is to bet on the person instead of the game.
所以他们想看到这个人会全身心投入，把事情做成，因为说到底，他们能赌的也只有这个。
And so they wanna see this person is going to devote themselves to make it successful because ultimately, that's really all they can bet on.
这次一定会很顺利的。
This is gonna go great.
别担心。
Don't worry about it.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
别担心。
Don't worry about it.
别担心。
Don't worry
别担心。
about it.
非常感谢。
Thanks a lot.
好的，我很快会和你们俩再聊。
Well, I'll talk to you both soon.
好的。
Alright.
回头见。
See you soon.
再见。
Bye.
说完这些，我就去找个空的小房间。
And with that, I go find an empty little room.
我们的播客当然是很重要的一部分。
Our podcast is, of course, the big part.
还有我的笔记。
And over my notes.
我们的听众是最棒的，这是肯尼之前说过的一句很棒的话，直到他们把我叫进来。
Our listeners are the best of us, is a great thing that Kenny said earlier, until they called me in.
好的。
Okay.
时间到了吗？
Is it time?
是的。
Yeah.
我关掉了录音机。
And I turned off my recorder.
开始吧。
Here we go.
艾丽卡？
Erica?
是的。
Yes.
快跟我讲讲。
Tell me everything.
进展怎么样？
How did it go?
我太兴奋了，太兴奋了。
I'm so I'm so excited.
好的。
Okay.
我会把整个过程都跟你讲一遍。
I'm gonna walk you through the whole thing.
就在那之后，当Exploding Kittens在推销他们的其他游戏时，我马上打电话给Kenny，把一切都告诉了他。
Immediately afterwards, while Exploding Kittens was pitching its other games, I call Kenny to tell him everything.
房间里的人一开始会说什么？
What are the first things that someone says in the room?
我听到的第一句话就是，艾丽卡，坐下。
Erica, sit down was the first thing I heard.
等等。
So Wait.
你是不是站太久了？
Were you, like, standing too long or something?
你
Did you
忘了坐下了？
forget to sit?
我当时就站在那儿。
I was standing there.
我就在想，我演讲的时候要站着吗？
I wasn't I was like, do I stand for my presentation?
然后我就想，这什么情况？
And I was like, what is this?
我就准备好了，随时可以开始。
Like, I'm ready to go.
你懂吧？
You know?
然后我就走进去了。
So I walk in.
最后我还是坐下了。
I sit down eventually.
最后还是坐下了。
Eventually.
屏幕上出现了伊兰，他说这个合作是他最期待的事情，诸如此类的。
Ilan is up on the screen, he's and like, this collaboration is the thing he's most excited about and so on and so forth.
然后他说，艾丽卡也在这里。
And he's like, and Erica's here.
我当时就想，那说的就是我，你懂的。
And I was like, that's me, you know.
我甚至都不知道发生了什么。
And I don't even know what happened.
我就是在说话。
I was just talking.
我就一直在说，什么微观表情啊，什么《金钱星球》啊，什么忠实听众啊。
I just was blah blah blah, micro face, blah blah blah Planet Money, blah blah blah, devoted audience.
所以，是的。
So yeah.
所以。
So
那他们看起来对什么有反应呢？
So what did they seem to respond to?
这个嘛，这就很有意思了。
So this is this is interesting.
他们对游戏本身的内容一点反应都没有。
They did not respond to anything to do with the actual game.
哦。
Oh.
什么？
What?
或者《金钱星球》也一样。
Or Planet Money for that matter.
他们好像觉得那是理所当然的。
Like, they just took that for granted.
他们只是点头微笑，但心里有顾虑。
And they just kind of nodded and smiled, but they had concerns.
他们的艾丽卡解释说。
Their Erica explained.
他们似乎有点担心这个游戏到底是给谁玩的，小孩、青少年还是成年人，还有玩家人数的问题。
They they seemed a little worried about who the game was for exactly, kids, teens, adults, and also the number of players.
有没有双人版？
Is there a two player version?
但看起来主要的担忧是钱，也就是游戏的价格。
But it seemed like the primary concern was about money, the price of the game.
他们觉得这游戏差不多应该属于那种九块九的卡牌游戏。
They were like, it kind of almost feels like it should be one of those nine ninety nine card games.
哦，那确实
Oh, that's
有点棘手。
tricky.
对。
Yeah.
确实棘手。
It's tricky.
所以他们觉得，这游戏不是十美元的游戏，但看起来也不像二十美元的。
So they're like, it's not a $10 game, but it doesn't seem like a $20 game.
埃里卡，这对你和我来说似乎不太妙。
Like, that did not seem great to you and me, Erica.
不是吧？
No?
差不多，几乎不是。
Like, it almost No.
不是。
No.
听起来他们几乎不知道该怎么处理我们的游戏，或者说不知道怎么给它准确定位。
It almost sounded like they did not know what to do with our game or, like, how to place it exactly.
对。
Right.
但是第二天，喂？
But the next day Hello?
你能听到我说话吗？
Can you hear me?
嘿。
Hey.
对。
Yeah.
我能听到你说话。
I can hear you.
我给埃隆打了电话，他对价格问题的理解和我们完全不一样。
I called Elon who had heard that price stuff very differently than the way we did.
他们确实问了一个问题，我觉得很能说明问题。
They they did ask one question, and I think it was very telling.
他们问，你对这个价格点有多坚定？
They said, how set are you on the price point?
对我来说，那一刻就像脑子里开始放彩带炮一样，因为那感觉就像是，哦，他们不是在问要不要卖这个东西。
And that, for me, that's when, like, little confetti bombs started going off in my head because that was like, oh, they're not asking about whether or not they should sell this thing.
他们现在问的是怎么卖最合适。
They are now asking about the best way to sell it.
埃隆解释说，如果你想想一款桌游，我们的桌游，最终产品在货架上可能是什么样子，可能性是很多的。
Elon explains that if you think about a board game, our board game, there is a huge range of possibilities for what the final product would or could actually look like on a shelf.
你知道，我们现在只有一个原型。
You know, we've just got a prototype for now.
而且从核心来说，我们的游戏其实就是一副特别的卡牌。
And at its core, our game is really just a deck of special cards.
所以这个游戏可以有一个非常便宜的版本，我觉得。
So there's an incredibly cheap version of that game, I suppose.
就像，怎么说呢。
It's just like, I don't know.
这里有一副像UNO那样的卡牌。
Here's a little here's a deck of cards like UNO.
在另一个极端，如果我们能负担得起，加入一个小雕像，比如一个大脚怪的雕像，用来标记回合，那会更有趣。
On the other end of the spectrum, it's way more fun if we could afford to include a little figurine of, like, a Sasquatch to help keep track of turn.
小小的塑料小人。
Little little vinyl guy.
我喜欢这个。
I love that.
为什么不呢？
Why not?
用代币来计分，也许还可以……
Tokens for points and maybe like
金属代币。
Metal tokens.
就是那种叮叮当当的小东西。
Like, little clinky clanky.
我很喜欢。
I love it.
也许还可以用一个更大、更漂亮的盒子来装这些东西。
And maybe like a bigger, nicer box to hold all of that stuff.
目前游戏还是原型阶段。
Right now, the game is still a prototype.
所以这个定价决策最终会决定所有这些事情。
So this pricing decision, it will ultimately determine all of that stuff.
我们会在一定程度上调整每件产品的生产成本，以达到我们现在选定的价格点。
We will, to some extent, change our per unit production cost to meet the price point we choose right now.
对。
Yeah.
我的意思是，归根结底，一旦你定了价，就很难再改了。
I mean, what it all comes down to is once you set your price, it is very hard to change.
对。
Yeah.
就像产品一旦上架，价格就很难调整了。
Like like once the product is on the shelf, it's very hard to change a price.
因为如果你涨价，那等于自杀。
Because if you raise your price, that's suicide.
而如果你降价，那看起来就像在打折促销。
And if you lower your price, then suddenly it looks like you're discounting it.
就像突然之间，你只是在想办法处理一个便宜货。
Like, suddenly, you're just trying to get rid of a cheap dent.
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所以第一次就做对太重要了。
So it's so important to nail it the first time.
我们通过一次定价，就为整个全球市场定下了基调。
We're really setting the stage for the entire global market for that product by picking one price, one time.
那下一步是什么？
What is the next step, actually?
让我问问你。
Let me ask you that.
下一步是什么？
What is the next step?
哦，下一步嘛，可惜就是等。
Oh, next steps, unfortunately, are waiting.
现在我们就等着。
Now we wait.
我从来不会把任何事当成板上钉钉，除非拿到书面文件。所以就算他们再热情再兴奋，谁知道呢？
I I never think of anything as a done deal until we get the paperwork, which means that as enthusiastic as they are and as excited as they are, who knows?
也许下次会议他们会展示20款游戏，每一款都是3A大作，然后我们就被淘汰了。
Maybe the next meeting will be will present 20 games and every single one of them is triple a, and we just get knocked away.
所以这一切都有可能，现在我们就等着吧。
So all of that's possible, and now we wait.
而这段等待时间确实给了我们一些做报道的机会，因为你知道，虽然我们确实和买家们同处一室，但我们想知道当艾瑞卡在推销时，那些买家心里到底在想什么。
And that wait, it did give us some time to do some reporting because, you know, sure, we'd been inside the room with the buyers, but we wanted to know what was inside the mind of those buyers when Erica was pitching.
所以我们打了几个电话。
So we made some phone calls.
好的。
Okay.
所以基本上，你曾经坐在那张桌子的另一边。
So you essentially have sat on the other side of that table.
比如，我来，我做个推销。
Like, I come, I give a pitch.
而你，就是坐在另一边的那个人。
You're the one who sits on the other side.
是的。
Yes.
没错。
Correct.
那就是我。
That was me.
好。
Okay.
其实不是他本人。
It wasn't literally him.
对。
No.
那是马特·阿德尔曼，但他的工作和我面对的那些人一模一样。
That is Matt Adelman, but his job was exactly like those people I sat across from.
具体来说，马特是大型零售商的采购员。
Specifically, Matt was a big box buyer.
对。
Yeah.
马特在塔吉特工作，他参加过几百次这种产品线评审会议。
Matt worked for Target, and he sat through hundreds of these types of line review meetings.
而且，你知道，对艾丽卡来说，她紧张得要命。
And, you know, for Erica, she was a nervous wreck.
我们问马特，从你的角度，从买家的角度，这种时刻是什么样的？
We asked Matt what what is this moment like from your perspective, from a buyer's perspective?
你在想什么？
What are you thinking?
我不知道。
I don't know.
我就想，又来了。
I'm like, here we go again.
这场对话会往哪儿走呢？
Where is this conversation gonna go?
这其实很常规。
It it's very routine.
如果有100个产品提交审核，大概只有30个能进入审核会议。
If there's a 100 line review submissions, about 30 of them actually get a line review meeting.
在这30个进入审核会议的产品中，最终能上架的只有三到六个品牌。
Of the 30 that get a line review meeting, three to six of of those brands ultimately get on the shelf.
就这些？
That's it.
确实很难。
It's it's tough.
哇。
Wow.
不过马特当时并不是专门负责桌游的采购。
Now Matt was not a board game buyer specifically.
他在塔吉特工作的时候，负责决定熟食区和即食食品区的采购。
When he worked at Target, he was in charge of deciding what to buy for the deli and prepared foods aisles.
鹰嘴豆泥、熟食肉、土豆沙拉、普通沙拉。
Hummus, charcuterie, potato salad, regular salads.
但他告诉我们，说实话，在大卖场里，鹰嘴豆泥和桌游其实是一回事。
But he told us, honestly, when it comes to big box, hummus, board games, it's all the same.
流程是一样的。
It's the same process.
就像把盒子放上货架，不管是食品、美妆还是游戏，考虑的东西都一样，分析的方法也一样，同样要判断这能不能卖得动，后台的财务数据也一样。
Like, it's putting a box on a shelf, whether that's food, whether that's beauty, whether that's a game, like, same thoughts go into it, the same analysis goes into it, the same, is this gonna work or not, the same financials on the back end.
对吧？
Right?
比如，你创造了多少销售额？
Like, how many dollars did you generate?
你带来了多少利润？
How much margin did you return?
它到底行不行？
Is it working or not working?
其实都是一样的。
It's all the same.
所以我们问Matt的问题是，像Erica那样在推销一个全新游戏的时候，桌子对面的买家会怎么想？
So our question for Matt was, in a pitch meeting like Erica's pitching a brand new game, what would the buyers on the other side of the table be thinking?
说到底，我真正在想的是什么？
At the end of the day, what am I really thinking?
就是这东西能不能卖出去？
Is is this gonna sell?
如果我把它引进来，我就得替换掉别的东西。
If I bring this in, I have to replace something.
对吧？
Right?
你会在货架上占一个位置，而这是以牺牲别人为代价的。
You're gonna take a spot on the shelf at the expense of somebody.
你会不会比我拿掉的那个东西表现更好？
Are you gonna do better than that thing that I take out and put you in for?
而且商店里这个品类的空间是固定的，我得尽可能让这块空间发挥最大的效益。
And there is a set amount of space in a store for this category, and I need to make that space as productive as I possibly can.
大型零售商通常会使用一种叫货架图的店铺货架蓝图。
Big box retailers will use these, like, blueprints of store shelves called planograms.
马特说，这就是他在产品线评审提案时脑子里考虑的事情之一。
And Matt says that's one of the things in his mind during line review pitches.
他就像在脑子里玩零售版的俄罗斯方块。
He's kind of mentally playing retail Tetris.
会议结束后，是的，我们在等待，但这时候像马特这样的买家才真正开始忙起来。
And and then when the meeting's over, yeah, we are waiting, but but this is when the buyers like Matt have to really get to work.
如果他们喜欢某个产品，喜欢我们的提案，他们还得向自己的老板去推销。
If they like something, if they like our pitch, they still have to then make a pitch to their bosses.
还记得你向买家做提案时那种紧张的感觉吧，我敢肯定。
Remember the the nerves you had, I'm sure, sitting in the line of you pitching to the buyer.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
现在，采购员要去见他们的副总裁或高级副总裁，然后说，这是我的货架陈列图。
Well, now the buyers get to go to their VPs or their SVPs and then say, here's my planogram.
这是我想做的。
Here's what I wanna do.
然后副总裁和所有高层领导就会问，那这个呢？
And now the VPs and all the senior leaders get to go, what about this?
他们会疯狂地挑战你。
And they challenge you like crazy.
所以现在我需要把我的方案推销给他们，就像你刚才向我推销一样。
And so now I need I need to pitch my stuff to them just like you had to pitch to me.
会有很多反对意见，还有很多，我不知道，我不同意，这个怎么样，那个怎么样，你作为采购商必须去辩护。
And there's tons of pushback, and there's tons of, I don't know, I don't agree, what about this, what about that, that you have to defend as as a merchant.
如果你无法辩护，你最好去修正它。
And if you can't defend it, you better go fix it.
所以，让我们回顾一下通往大型零售商店货架的路。
So just to recap the path to a big box shelf.
每年大概有五千款新桌游上市。
There are, like, 5,000 new board games every year.
其中只有极小极小的一部分，能真正进入选品评审的环节。
A tiny, tiny fraction will actually get to be part of a line review pitch.
更小的一部分能吸引买手的注意，而这些游戏还得进入货架图方案，提交给副总裁和高级副总裁审批，最后才能真的上架销售。
An even tinier fraction will get the buyer's attention, and those still have to go into planograms that get pitched to VPs and SPPs before games actually get ordered for the real shelves.
但是那些游戏在选品评审的时候，房间里可没有艾丽卡·巴里斯在场。
But but none of those games had Erica Barris in the room for their line review.
你多久会遇到一次，比如某个行业外的人，像播客主持人，去跟零售商推销产品？
How often do you have, like, somebody who is not in the industry, like, say, a podcast host, pitching the retailers on an item?
对。
Yeah.
十年前，这种情况不常见，但现在这个时代就多了。
Ten years ago, not very often in today's world.
你想想那些创作者、网红，还有那些积累了粉丝的人，他们很多人都在推出自己的产品。
If you think about all of the creators and all of the influencers and all the people that have built a following, you know, it's it's a lot of them are spinning up products.
然后他们就出现了。
And they show up.
他们出现了。
They show up.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
也许没有我们期待的那么特别。
Maybe not as special as we were hoping.
总之，所有这些。
Anyway, all of that.
这就是为什么进入大卖场是一件非常严肃的事情。
That is why getting into big box is a very serious business.
而且，显然，这也是为什么我们要等那么久才能听到关于我们提案会议结果的任何消息。
And, apparently, why we have to wait so long to hear anything about how our pitch meeting went.
好几个月过去了，一点消息都没有。
It was months and months and months of nothing.
在那段时间里，Exploding Kittens确实也和其他大型零售商做了类似的商品线审查和提案流程。
During that time, Exploding Kittens did do a similar line review pitch process with other big box retailers.
你知道，多投几个提案，就多一分机会有人看上我们，然后告诉我们，去吧。
You know, more pitches, better chance someone picks us up and tells us, you know, go forth.
给我们做一堆游戏吧。
Make a bunch of games for us.
然后，差不多在我去洛杉矶向买家提案五个月后，Exploding Kittens的Alan联系了我，说我们得见一面。
And then nearly five months after I'd been in LA pitching the buyers, Alan from Exploding Kittens got in touch and said, we have to meet.
我们有好多事情要聊。
We have so much stuff to talk about.
我们可能有一些来自零售商的最新消息，如果你想先听这个的话。
We have some updates maybe from retailers if you want to start there.
好的。
Okay.
那是Stephanie Pesta，Exploding Kittens的高级创意运营经理。
That is Stephanie Pesta, senior creative operations manager at Exploding Kittens.
Erica和我，还有我们的老板Alex Goldmark，也在电话上，我们都开始凑近Zoom屏幕，Exploding Kittens直接切入正题。
Erica and I and our boss, Alex Goldmark, also on the call, we all start to lean into our Zoom screens, and Exploding Kittens cut straight to the chase.
令人兴奋的零售商消息是，对于美国的两大零售商，Planet Money游戏《卖我一个大脚怪》已经被全北美连锁店接受。
The exciting retailer news is that for the two big retailers in The US, the Planet Money game, Sell Me a Sasquatch, has been accepted full chain throughout North America.
天哪。
Holy moly.
听起来很厉害。
That sounds big.
什么？
What?
这算大吗？
Is that big?
这已经大到不能再大了。
It's literally as big as a thing could be.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
两家零售商。
Both retailers.
两家。
Both.
是的。
Yes.
全国最大的两家大型零售商都下了订单，要进货并在货架上销售《卖我一个大脚怪》。
Two of the biggest big box retailers in the country both placed orders to buy and carry Sell Me a Sasquatch on their shelves.
他们有没有说，艾瑞卡做了史上最棒的演示，这件事有多重要？
Did they say how important it was that Erica did the greatest presentation of all time?
还是说
Or
我觉得不太行。
I I don't think okay.
有没有人
Did anyone
我觉得他们不太习惯那样。
I don't think they're used to that.
我觉得那对他们来说完全是新鲜事。
I think that was brand new for them.
我觉得那些会议通常都特别枯燥无聊，就是那些老面孔反复讨论同样的话题。
I think, like, those those meetings are normally so dry and so boring, and it's it's just, you know, it's the same people having the same discussions over and over.
但我们不一样，我们现场有明星。
But we, like, we had a celebrity in the room.
天哪。
Oh my.
谁啊？
Who?
那个人就是你，Erica。
It was you, Erica.
我们之前跟那个前采购员Matt聊过，他告诉我们，有名人带着特别的产品来推销这种情况越来越常见了，结果发现这在食品和化妆品领域更是如此。
When we talked to the former buyer, Matt, he had told us that that having a special person with a special product was getting more and more common, and it turns out that that's way more true in the food and cosmetic space.
你想想，比如Rihanna的彩妆系列，或者MrBeast的巧克力棒。
You know, think Rihanna's makeup line or mister beast's chocolate bars.
不过对于桌游来说，能请到Planet Money的Erica Barris本人到场，还真是头一回，大家都觉得特别新鲜、特别兴奋。
Apparently, for board games, though, it was still genuinely novel and exciting to have the one and only Erica Barris from Planet Money in the room.
Erica她可是拼了命地推销自己的产品。
And Erica Erica pitched her little heart out.
她确实做到了。
And She did.
他们都被惊艳到了。
Like, they were amazed.
我觉得他们离开的时候心里肯定在想，哇塞。
And I think they walked away from that just thinking like, wow.
这真的是全新的。
This is this is new.
没人这么做过。
Nobody's doing this.
这不是我们以前开过二十次的那种会议。
We this isn't the same meeting we've had 20 times before.
我对那个房间里发生的事一点印象都没有。
I have no memory of anything that happened in that room.
所以，太好了。
So So yay.
总的来说，爆炸小猫的首轮订单大约有十万套我们的游戏。
All told, exploding kittens got a first round of orders for about a 100,000 units of our game.
总之，现在正式确定了。
Anyway, it is now official.
对，完全确定了。
Like, absolutely official.
搞定了。
Done.
成交。
Deal.
订单已经下了。
The orders have been placed.
我真希望我有彩带。
I wish I had confetti.
我要是不小心点，这麦克风都要被我吹爆了。
I'm gonna blow this mic out if I'm not careful.
这太让人兴奋了。
This is so exciting.
对。
Yeah.
接下来还有很多事情要做。
There's all kinds of things that come next.
但是
But
这些事都得等那些船下水之后才能发生。
none of those happen until those boats get on the water.
哦。
Oh.
我们还得真的把游戏做出来，然后送到……
We still have to actually make and get the games to and
休息之后，新的倒计时就开始了。
After the break, a whole new clock starts ticking.
还有游戏在哪里买、多少钱，以及为什么我们真的真的希望你们喜欢我们的紫色盒子。
Plus where you can buy the game, how much it costs, and why we really, really hope that you appreciate our purple box.
本周的《来源与方法》，海上两百六十天。
This week on sources and methods, two hundred sixty days at sea.
我们正在了解更多关于林肯号航母上的情况，特朗普总统说这艘航母的部署时间还不够长。
We're learning more about the conditions aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, which president Trump says hasn't been deployed long enough.
我跟一位退休的海军上将聊过，他说，你知道问题出在哪儿吗？
I was talking to one retired admiral who said, you know what the problem is?
他们根本没计划好。
They didn't plan this.
这些内容以及本周更多重大国家安全新闻，尽在《来源与方法》。
That and more of the week's big national security news on sources and methods.
你可以在NPR应用或任何播客平台上收听。
You can listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.
好的。
Okay.
所以，无论你是在开车上班、散步，还是在健身房，只要你想放松一下头脑，
So you're driving to work or you're on a walk or you're at the gym or whatever, and you just need to clear your head.
那就是按下播放键，收听NPR的《所有歌曲都值得一听》的最佳时机。
That's the perfect time to hit the play button on NPR's all songs considered.
这不是新闻节目。
It's not the news.
不是工作，也不是其他让你烦心的事。
It's not work or whatever else is weighing you down.
就是和好朋友一起享受美好时光，听好听的音乐。
It's just a good time with good friends and great tunes.
每周二在NPR音乐播客里收听《All Songs Considered》。
Listen to all songs considered every Tuesday in the NPR music podcast.
与其漫无目的地刷手机，不如用心使用NPR应用。
Instead of scrolling mindlessly, engage mindfully with the NPR app.
它融合了按需新闻、电台故事和你最喜欢的播客，让你既能放松，又不会让大脑完全停转。
With a mix of on demand news, stories from the station, and your favorite podcast, you can relax without shutting off your brain.
今天就下载NPR应用吧。
Download the NPR app today.
在得知这个大新闻一个月后，我和肯尼都被叫到了《爆炸小猫》的总部。
One month after learning the great big box news, Kenny and I were both summoned to Exploding Kittens headquarters.
好的，伊兰。
Alright, Elan.
我们要去哪儿？
Where are we going?
我们进去吧。
Let's go in here.
好的。
Okay.
欢迎来到《金钱星球》会议室。
Welcome to the Planet Money Conference Room.
等等。
Wait.
《金钱星球》会议室？
The Planet Money Conference Room?
整个房间都是为《金钱星球》游戏准备的。
The whole room is devoted to the Planet Money game.
那张你见过的最大的会议桌上，摆满了各种神话怪兽的卡片，还有印着我们大脚怪和游戏标志的盒子，天哪，还有好多版本的说明书。
Covering the biggest conference table you've ever seen, cards showing all kinds of mythical monsters and and boxes with our Sasquatch and our game logo and oh my goodness, so many versions of instruction booklets.
这些已经非常接近最终原型了，但显然我们还有一大堆小决定要做。
These are very nearly the final prototypes, but apparently, we still have a gazillion small decisions to make.
那，今天结束的时候，就这样了？
And, like, at the end of today, that's it?
就这样了。
That's it.
我们定了？
We're locked?
我们定了。
We're locked.
实际上，我们必须得定下来了。
We have to be locked, actually.
我们明天得把文件发给工厂。
We need to send files to the factory tomorrow.
哦。
Oh.
所以这就是最后拍板的时候了
So this is a speak now
要么现在说，要么永远别说。哦，好吧。
or forever hold your peace Oh, okay.
明天。
Tomorrow.
为什么这么急？
Why the rush?
嗯，显然春节是个大原因。
Well, Chinese New Year is a big reason, apparently.
对。
Right.
我们得知那两家大型零售商想要我们的游戏的那天是1月12号星期一，正好是农历新年前36天。
So the day we got the news that the two big box retailers wanted our game was Monday, January 12, exactly thirty six days before the start of the Chinese Lunar New Year.
春节对全球经济来说是个大事。
Lunar New Year is a massive event for the global economy.
中国的工厂经常停工两到三周，而在停工之前，工厂会提前好几周就开始减缓生产。
Chinese factories often shut down for two or three weeks, and leading up to the shutdown, factories start to slow production for even more weeks.
而且停工之后，还要再过好几周，所有工人才会回来，工厂才能满负荷运转。
And then following the shutdown, it's even more weeks until all workers are back and factories are running full force.
Exploding Kittens告诉我们，如果我们想让游戏在假期前完成并上架，就必须为春节后工厂复工做好准备。
Exploding Kittens told us if we wanted our game to be done and in stores in time for the holidays, we needed to be ready to go for that post lunar New Year factory restart.
而且Exploding Kittens在工厂的排期里有一个位置，我们得确保不能错过。
And Exploding Kittens had a spot in the factory queue, and we needed to make sure we did not miss it.
我们的时间窗口非常窄，于是开始了项目中最紧张的一段冲刺，这是我记忆里最疯狂的一次。
We had the narrowest window, and so began one of the most frantic home stretches of a project I can remember.
对。
Yeah.
我们只有24小时把游戏文件送到中国，还得拼命处理一堆其他任务。
Twenty four hours to get the game files to China and a mad dash to handle a bunch of other tasks.
这就是为什么我们今年把计时器带到了演播室，就是为了让各位在收听的朋友感受到我们当时的压力、混乱，还有我们学到的关于把产品推向市场的经验，就像一颗定时炸弹，滴答滴答地朝着截止日期逼近。
Which which is why we have brought into the studio here this year, egg timer, to just to give you all listening at home a sense of the stress and the chaos and and also the learning about taking a product to market that we experienced as a clock, time bomb, really, tick, tick, ticking towards our due date.
我们还有很多任务要完成。
So many tasks we still have to get done.
那我们开始吧。
Here we go.
第一个任务。
Task one.
要不要看一下电子表格？
Shall we look at a spreadsheet?
答案永远是肯定的。
The answer is always, yes.
我们想看看
We want to look at
电子表格。
a spreadsheet.
比如说，NPR或者《金钱星球》能从这个项目里赚多少钱？
Like, how much money will NPR slash Planet Money make off this thing?
我们最终要谈的，就是你眼前看到的这个数字，版税，但在此之前……
The thing that we will eventually negotiate is this number here that you're looking at, royalty, but before
版税协议，授权协议。
Royalty deals, licensing deals.
对于桌游来说，通常大概是净收入的百分之三到七。
For board games, that tends to be, like, three to 7% of something called net revenue.
经过好几个月的谈判，我们最终正好落在了行业标准范围内，不过呢，我还得说，还加了一点甜头。
After months and months of negotiating, we landed right square in that industry standard with with, though, a couple of sweeteners, I will say.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
首先，我们有一笔小额的前期保底费用。
For one, we get a small guaranteed upfront fee.
但更重要的是，如果我们的游戏大卖特卖，版税比例会大幅提高。
But more importantly, our royalty percentage goes way up if our game is a runaway hit.
如果我们卖到20万套，当然是在你的帮助下，我们的版税差不多能翻倍。
If when we hit 200,000 units sold, with your help, of course, our royalty nearly doubles.
对。
Yeah.
我们设了这个激励机制，卖得越多，Exploding Kittens给NPR的分成就越大。
We we built in that incentive so that the more we sell, the bigger cut Exploding Kittens gives to NPR.
现在，如果3%、5%、7%听起来比例很小，那是因为Exploding Kittens在这笔交易中承担了几乎所有的风险。
Now if three, five, 7% sound like small percentages, it's because Exploding Kittens takes virtually all the risk in this deal.
他们承担了这款游戏的开发、打样和制造成本。
They are eating the cost of development and prototyping and manufacturing of this game.
他们一开始就亏了那么多钱。
They're starting in the hole for all that money.
对。
Yeah.
当那些大公司和其他公司真正开始向Exploding Kittens付款买游戏时，我们就能从中分一杯羹，拿走我们的百分比，再减去一些跟销售我们这款游戏相关的、范围比较窄的费用，基本上就是这样。
When the big boxes and and other companies actually start paying Exploding Kittens for games, then we get to scoop our cup into that sweet, sweet stream of money and take our percentage minus a relatively narrow set of expenses that have to do with the selling of our specific game, basically.
对。
Yeah.
比如，我们可能会在某个时候给顾客提供回扣，或者我们可能会花钱在货架末端做一个漂亮的展示，你知道，就是过道尽头那个位置。
Like, maybe we offer customers a rebate at some point, or maybe we end up paying for a fancy display in the end cap, you know, at the end of the aisle.
这就像是在付租金。
It's it's you're paying rent.
他们真的会收
Like, they literally charge
那些展示位置的租金。
rent for those replacements.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
第二个任务，游戏定价。
Task two, game price.
我们担心大型零售商把我们看成是9.99美元的廉价卡牌游戏。
We were worried that big box was seeing us as a cheap $9.99 card game.
显然，爆炸猫团队也有同样的担忧。
Apparently, exploding kittens had also been worried about this.
我们为这件事据理力争，
We fought that fight,
非常激烈。
fiercely.
确实。
Definitely.
顺便说一下，那是凯莉·沃佩利克，爆炸小猫的创意运营副总裁。
That's Kelly Vopelick, VP of creative operations Exploding Kittens, by the way.
我们看的是20美元的价格点，这明显是面向多代同堂的家庭聚会游戏。
We're looking at a it's a $20 price point, and that screams multigenerational family party game.
最后，爆炸小猫让大盒子同意了一个建议零售价，也就是制造商建议零售价19.99美元。
In the end, Exploding Kittens got big box to agree to an MSRP, a manufacturer's suggested retail price of $19.99.
这能给我们带来更多利润吗？
Does that result in more profit for us?
有可能带来更多利润，但我们选择把这笔钱花在产品上。
Or It is possible for that to result in more profit for us, but we opted to spend that money on the product.
我的意思是，我也会这么做。
I mean, I would have done the same thing.
对。
Yeah.
我们把所有涨价的收入都投入到制作更好的游戏版本上。
We poured all of that increased price into making a nicer version of the game.
我们在卡片上花了钱，用了高品质的材料，伊隆特别喜欢。
We splurged on a high quality material for the cards that Elon loves.
我们升级了包装盒，用更好的材质，让人一看就知道，这个游戏值得花点时间玩。
We upgraded to a higher quality box that signals, you know, this is a game that requires a little time, and it's worth it.
而且这意味着我们能把盒子做成潘通紫，而不是普通的紫色。
And it meant we could afford to make our box the Pantone Purple, not just everyday purple.
就是那个潘通紫。
The Pantone Purple.
这有点深入艺术细节了，但这是四色印刷，CMYK。
This is kind of getting in the weeds of, like, art, but this is printing CMYK four c.
我们在办公室测试的时候，颜色看起来有点暗淡，不够鲜艳，显得很浑浊。
And when we tested it like in the office, it was just kind of dull and not bright and looking really muddy.
所以我们决定用潘通色。
So we made the decision to like go forward with the Pantone.
虽然贵一点，但你看效果多明显。
A little bit more expensive, but like you can see how much impact it has.
太棒了。
It's glorious.
Pantone是一套完整的色彩系统，你多花钱是因为在Pantone体系里，任何人都能完美复制这些颜色。
Pantone is a whole color system where you pay extra because the colors can be perfectly reproduced by anyone in the Pantone world.
去看看我们关于这个话题的Planet Money节目吧。
Check out our Planet Money episode about this.
所以那个紫色，每个单位要多花大概3美分，但我在任务三看到效果之后，就算再多花钱我也愿意。
So that purple, it was gonna cost, like, 3¢ extra per unit, but I I would have paid so much more after seeing it during task three.
啊，时间真短。
Ah, so little time.
任务三，真实货架测试。
Task three, the real world shelf test.
感觉我们好像要做什么坏事一样。
Feels like we're about to do something bad.
确实。
It does.
感觉有点偷偷摸摸的。
It feels like clandestine somehow.
但说真的，确实有点像。
But mean, it kind of is.
对。
Yeah.
我也这么觉得。
Guess so.
去抢占一些非常值钱的货架。
To hijack some very valuable store shelf.
在爆炸猫开始印刷任何游戏之前，他们会偷偷溜进一家大型零售店。
Before Exploding Kittens starts printing any game, they, off in a lawn, will sneak into a big box store.
这将会是——哦，哇。
It is going to be Oh, wow.
就是这里。
Spot right here.
你就把它放在那儿。
You just put it up there.
就放在这儿。
And just Right here.
把他们的游戏放到货架上看看效果。
Put their game on the shelf to just see.
好的。
Okay.
它够显眼吗？
Does it stand out enough?
会不会太显眼了？
Too much?
从远处看效果好吗？
Does it read well from far away?
万一被碰倒了，看起来还行吗？
Does it look okay when it inevitably gets knocked over?
或者被推到货架的阴影里？
Or get shoved back into the shadows of the shelves?
我觉得即使在阴影里也还是很显眼，这其实挺不容易的。
I would argue that still stands up in shadow, like, which is a tough position to be in.
上面那些浅色还是能一下子跳出来。
The lighter colors on there still pop right out.
你看到其他阿尔潘通紫色的东西了吗？
I do you see anything else that's Arpantone purple?
没有。
Nothing.
那真的很有意思。
That's really interesting.
这是好事还是坏事？
Is that good or bad?
非常好。
Really good.
非常好。
Really good.
就是说，在这个过程里很难得到一个明确的结论，说我们做得对。
Like, it is very hard to go through this process and get a definitive, yes, we're doing it right.
对。
Right.
我觉得至少我们可以明确地说，这没有坏。
I think at the very least, we can definitively say, this is not broken.
哦，好的。
Ah, okay.
好的。
Okay.
我们时间快不够了。
We're running out of time here.
快速问答环节，艾丽卡。
Speed round, Erica.
第四项任务，盒子表面处理。
Task four, box finish.
我们决定把盒子从亮面改成哑光，来体现这是一款成熟的游戏。
We decided to switch the box from glossy finish to matte finish to signal grown up game.
显然，儿童游戏一直用亮面来掩盖他们偷工减料的事实，省了纸板钱，却花大价钱买那些花里胡哨的塑料玩具配件。
Apparently, kids games have been using glossy finishes as a fancy cover up for the fact that they skimped on cardboard quality and spent on expensive plastic toy things for for the game.
唉，事情真多。
Ah, so much to do.
第五项任务，盒子背面放什么？
Task five, what's on the back of the box?
在最后关头，我们决定用漫画条幅的形式。
At the eleventh hour, we land on a comic strip format.
我觉得这里需要加个对话气泡。
I think we need a speech bubble here.
盒子背面只需要把游戏介绍清楚，让人感受到游戏的氛围就行。
Back of the box just has to explain enough about the game to give people the feel of the game.
第六到第十项任务，都是对说明书的微调。
Tasks six, seven, eight, nine, 10, tweaks out the instructions.
一个二维码，把人们引到我们的桌游播客系列。
A QR code to send people to our board game podcast series.
另一个二维码，把人们引到一个游戏视频。
A different QR code that sends people to a video of the sends you to a a video of the game.
而且我们还没告诉你，关于盒子正面标点符号的那场长讨论。
And we didn't even tell you about the long discussion over punctuation on the front of
盒子正面。
the box.
那场讨论可长了。
It was a long discussion.
我觉得从风格上讲，句号应该放在括号里面。
I do think that period has to go inside the parenthesis stylistically.
我们这儿每天都为这事吵。
We have this argument every single day here.
之后
After
这一切都完成后，埃兰和爆炸猫团队带我们去了他们办公室中间的一个巨大的钟那里。
all of this was done, Elan and the exploding kittens walked us over to a gigantic bell in the middle of their offices.
这是他们完成并发布游戏时敲响的钟，他们觉得该轮到我们了。
This is the bell that they ring when they finish and ship a game, and they felt like it was our time.
好。
Alright.
我要说点什么吗？
Do I say anything?
是不是有点像……
Do it's like is it like
生日那种？
birthday handle?
我们做到了。
We did it.
我们做到了。
We did it.
我们的游戏《卖我一个大脚怪》的源文件被送到了中国的工厂，很快之后……
The source files for our game, Sell Me a Sasquatch, were sent off to the factory in China and very soon after that.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
都在那儿了，托里。
It's all there, Tori.
所以，肯尼，这就是我跟你说的那台机器。
So, Kenny, this is the machine I was telling you about.
我当时正和爆笑猫咪的全球采购负责人托里·韦尔奇视频通话，地点就在上海工厂的车间里。
I was FaceTiming with Exploding Kittens global sourcing person, Tori Welch, from the floor of the factory in Shanghai.
那些噪音，就是成千上万份我们的游戏从印刷机上下来的声音，你知道的，卡片和盒子。
And all of that noise, like, is the sound of thousands and thousands of our game coming off of the printing press, you know, cards and boxes.
她特意给我看工厂用来做质量控制的工具，确保我们的潘通紫颜色完全准确。
And she is specifically showing me the tool that the factory has for quality control to make sure that our Pantone Purple is exactly right.
它会扫描然后告诉你
It's gonna scan and tell you whether
是不是完美的紫色。
or not it's the perfect purple.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
这就是紫色检测仪。
It's the purple meter.
你能给我看看吗？
Can you show me?
能
Can
给我看看吗？
you show me?
抱歉。
Sorry.
把麦克风弄炸了。
Blew my mic.
是的。
Yeah.
这太让人兴奋了。
This is so exciting.
所以，哦
So Oh
天哪。
my gosh.
声音好大。
It's loud.
声音好大。
It's loud.
而且还有
And there is
哦，他们有潘通色卡了。
your Oh, they've got the swatches.
这就是潘通色卡。
There's the Pantone swatches.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
好的。
Okay.
所以他们指着潘通色卡。
So they're pointing at the Pantone.
快看。
And Look.
也许是因为当时我那边是凌晨两点。
Maybe it was the fact that it was, like, 2AM my time.
但看到这个通往世界另一端、通往我们游戏的小窗口，我有点感动。
But seeing this tiny portal to the other side of the world, to our game, choke me up a little bit.
四个月后，等等。
Four months later Wait.
桌游在哪儿呢？
Where are the board games?
我带着六岁的女儿走进了一家大型零售店。
I walked into a big box retailer with my six year old daughter.
天哪
Oh my
我的天。
goodness.
好吧。
Alright.
就在
There
那儿。
it is.
来，
Here,
转过身来看
turn around and look
抬头看它。
up at it.
指给它看。
Point to it.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
就是那个游戏？
That's the game?
你们学校人人都想要的那个游戏？
The game that everyone at your school wants?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
你得说是。
You gotta say yes.
对。
Yeah.
还有，听好了。
And listen.
我们仍然不能确切说出我进了哪家大型零售商的店。
We still cannot say exactly which big box retailer I got into the room with.
但我们可以告诉你的是，Planet Money的爆炸小猫游戏《卖我一个大脚怪》现在已经在Target和沃尔玛的货架上有售，还有其他很多卖桌游的地方，包括NPR商店。
But what we can tell you is the Planet Money exploding kittens game, Sell Me a Sasquatch, is now available on shelves at Target and Walmart and lots of other places that sell board games, including the NPR shop.
哦，等等。
Oh, wait.
我们把最好的消息留到了最后，Erica。
We saved the best news for last, Erica.
没错。
That's right.
各位听众，你们也参与了这款游戏。
You, listeners, you're in this game.
你们不仅花了成百上千个小时来测试这款游戏的原型。
Not only did you spend hundreds and hundreds of hours testing prototypes of this game
还给我们发来了非常有用且深思熟虑的反馈。
And sending us your incredibly useful and thoughtful feedback.
而且你们还给我们提供了超过一千个关于应该在这款游戏中加入哪些神秘生物的好点子。
But you also sent us more than a thousand amazing ideas for what mythical creatures we should include in this game.
我们非常喜欢这些点子。
We love them so much.
你们告诉我们的当地神秘生物，还有你们发明的那些深奥的经济学神秘生物。
The local cryptids you told us about, the deep cut econ cryptids you invented.
这里是一些我们成功说服爆炸小猫团队加入游戏中的例子。
And here is a sampling of what successfully we convinced exploding kittens to include in the actual game.
你会看到凡勃伦、牛熊、笑面人。
You're gonna find the Veblen, the bull bear, the laugher.
懂的都懂。
If you know, you know.
还有奥戈波戈。
The Ogo Pogo.
关于发音，欢迎给我留言指正。
Send me notes about pronunciation.
我完全接受。
I totally accept them.
抱歉。
I'm sorry.
还有澳大利亚，你们在这次挑战中表现得特别突出。
And I Australia, you came out preposterously strong for this challenge.
我们看到了你们，也把“掉熊”加了进去，那在澳大利亚可是真实存在、你们应该害怕的东西。
And we have we've seen you, and we have included the drop bear, which is a very real thing that you should be scared of in Australia.
当你买了游戏，看到那些卡片时，你会发现《爆炸小猫》在卡片上加了小标记，这样你就能知道哪些卡片是你贡献的。
When you buy the game and look at the cards, you will see that exploding kittens included a little symbol on those cards so you can see which ones came from you.
我们对此感到非常非常自豪。
We are so, so proud of this.
如果你还想继续帮助这个项目，以后会有很多机会。
If you still wanna help out on this project, there's gonna be a lot of opportunities.
但现在，最重要的事情就是诚实地给游戏打分和写评论。
But right now, the most important thing to do is honestly rate and review the game.
在评分和评论系统里，验证过的购买记录权重高得多。
Verified purchases matter a lot more in the rating and reviewing system.
所以，如果你买了游戏，就在你买的地方写评论，然后组织一个游戏之夜。
And so if you buy the game, review it where you bought it, and host a game night.
告诉你的朋友们。
Tell your friends about it.
做一个得意的经济学人，骗他们学经济学，然后你可以拿出那篇《柠檬市场》的论文，念给他们听。
Be a smug econ person and trick them into learning the econ, and then you can produce the paper, the market for lemons, and then read from it to them.
那一定会很好玩的。
It'll be a blast.
还有，你可以给我们发邮件。
And, you know, send us an email.
说不定我们会视频连线参加你的游戏之夜。
Maybe we'll zoom into your game night.
谁知道呢？
Who knows?
本期节目由Emma Peaslee制作。
This episode was produced by Emma Peaslee.
由Marianne McCune编辑。
It was edited by Marianne McCune.
由Sierra Juarez负责事实核查。
It was fact checked by Sierra Juarez.
由Robert Rodriguez负责技术工程。
It was engineered by Robert Rodriguez.
《金钱星球》的执行制片人是亚历克斯·戈德马克。
Planet Money's executive producer is Alex Goldmark.
顺便说一下，你可以在shopnpr.org的NPR商店买到我们的游戏和很多其他周边产品。
By the way, you can get our game and lots of other merch at the NPR shop at shopnpr.org.
我是艾丽卡·佩雷斯。
I'm Erica Perez.
我是肯尼·马龙。
I'm Kenny Malone.
这里是NPR，我买了一套大脚怪的服装。
This is NPR, and I have purchased a Sasquatch costume.
所以记得关注我们的社交媒体。
So watch the socials.
秋天就要来了。
Fall is right around the corner.
这意味着中期选举也快到了。
That means the midterms.
嘿。
Hey.
我是NPR政治播客的迈尔斯·帕克斯。
It's Miles Parks from the NPR Politics Podcast.
现在正是调整你秋季新闻摄入量的好时机。
Now is the perfect time to calibrate your news diet for the fall.
关注我们的节目，每天都有短小精悍的更新，帮你掌握中期选举最重要的动态。
Follow our show for short daily episodes that will help you stay ahead of the most important midterm storylines that you need to follow.
在NPR应用或任何你收听播客的地方都能找到NPR政治播客。
Find the NPR politics podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
我是特里·格罗斯。
This is Terry Gross.
我刚采访了杰森·西格尔，聊了他在《缩小》里扮演治疗师的角色，他自己的治疗经历，还有他的布偶电影。
I just interviewed Jason Segal about playing a therapist on a series shrinking, his own therapy, and his Muppets movie.
我喜欢你叫我布偶电影里的人类明星。
I love how you call me the human star of the Muppets.
这让我非常开心。
It gives me such it gives me such joy.
是啊，尤其是你说过自己有时候觉得自己像个布偶。
Well, especially since you've said you sometimes feel like a Muppet.
所以呢，
So
没错。
For sure.
欢迎在NPR应用或你收听《Fresh Air》的任何平台收听。
Listen on the NPR app or wherever you listen to Fresh Air.
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