Episode 195: The Art and Science of Speed Endurance Workouts

就是在跑道上来回跑。

So it's basically back and forth on the track.

对吧？

Right?

就是跑120米，用45秒，然后转身。

So it's like 120 meters, forty five seconds, turn around.

120米，全力冲，45秒，转身，再来一趟，来回重复。

120 meters, fast, forty five seconds, turn around, back and forth.

我常安排100米，因为如果运动员跑120米超过20秒，那我就改用100米。

I like 100 twenties because it, you know, and if athletes are running slower than, say, if 120, meters takes longer than twenty seconds, then I'll do, like, a 100 meters.

在我看来，中距离运动员做这种训练，最好控制在15秒左右，上下浮动一点。

But we want around fifteen seconds plus or minus for that type of work in my mind, for a middle distance type athlete.

这是训练初期的做法。

That's early on.

之后就会调整。

Then it switches.

接下来我们进入配速训练。

Then we go to studying the pace.

比如练800米，可以做三组，每组跑三次300米，每次都按800米的目标配速，每趟控制在两分钟内。

So an example of that for, like, say, 800 meters would be, say, three sets of three times 300 meters at target race pace for the 800 on the two minute.

假设你目标是让运动员把800米跑进两分钟，那就要让他们在两分钟内完成。

So you'd so let's say you're running two flat to you're trying to target a kid and get them to two flat for 800.

所以就是三组300米，每趟45秒，组内休息75秒，全程控制在两分钟节奏里。

So it's three sets of 300 meters at forty five seconds with seventy five seconds rest on the two minute.

每组之间休息六到十分钟。

Then you take, like, six to ten minutes rest in between the sets.

这种训练量非常大。

So lots and lots and lots.

这种训练的好处在于，工作与休息的比例是1比1.5。

So the great thing about this is the work to rest ratio is one to one and a half.

从生理角度看，这种安排能有效刺激糖酵解系统，但休息时间又刚好够身体清除乳酸、代谢废物和酸性物质。

What happens physiologically with that is you do have a high degree of, you know, glycolytic impact that starts to happen, but the rest is just long enough for lactate clearance and for metabolic clearance and acidosis clearance to happen.

休息时间刚好够肌酸磷酸系统快速恢复，因为一分钟休息就能恢复大约50%的容量。

Just long enough too for actually your creatine phosphate source to elevate quickly because they elevate within about, 50% capacity with one minute rest.

所以这里休息将近两分钟，差不多能让你的肌酸磷酸储备恢复70%左右。

So here, again, almost two minutes, so that gives you almost something like 70% restoration in your CP source.

所以你稍微多留点余地，但依然保持目标配速训练。

So, again, you just give yourself a little bit of a buffer, but you practice the pace.

随着训练进行，体内的乳酸确实会逐渐累积。

And as you go through, that lactate globally does start to accumulate.

最后一组才是真正起训练效果的关键组，其他都是铺垫。

So the last, you know, set is really the work set where the training adaptation happens.

虽然很累，但完全能完成。

It's tough, but it's doable.

如果我在训练中看到运动员在最后一组的第二趟开始掉速，比如本来要跑45秒，结果跑了47秒，我就会在最后一趟前多加30秒休息——因为不管怎样，这个赛季里他们必须在指定时间内跑出目标配速。

And then if I'm there are tracks at coaching and I see they start to fatigue or start to slow and decay on the pace during the rep, like, let's say rep two of the last set was 47, not 45, we will extend recovery by thirty more seconds before the final rep because what matters is they hit that pace come hell or high water in that time in the in the season.

简单来说，800米比赛本质上就是赛季中对速度耐力的考验。

And then, you know, very simply, the 800 meter racing 800 meter is the speed endurance activity during the season.

我的意思是，如果你中间隔得够久，那当然可以。

So, I mean, you don't you if you have long periods between them, sure.

你可以这么做，但还是要安排一场实战训练。

You can do that, but do a workout.

不过大多数800米运动员需要频繁参赛，因为参加锦标赛时，他们往往要在几天内连续比好多轮。

But, otherwise, most 800 meter runners need to race the 800 pretty frequently because most 800 meter runners will go to a championship where they have to race the 800 in multiple days and multiple rounds.

所以，这种频繁比赛、积累战术经验的刺激，可能是最贴近实战的训练方式了。

And so that frequency and stimulus of racing and learning tactics and all that stuff, that's probably the most specific workout you can do.

你提到这点我很赞同，因为这常被低估了——跟长跑运动员不一样，长跑通常觉得要尽量少参赛，像杰里·舒马赫那种‘不到状态最好就别比’的思路，但800米选手不一样，他们非比不可。

You know, I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's underrated because unlike distance runners where often we think, oh, we should minimize racing or do the the old Jerry Schumacher of, like, you know, half only race when you're ready, is 800 guys and gals, like, they've got to race.

他们必须得比，你知道的，以前东德那边有些训练文献就提过这个。

They've got to you know, there's these old East German texts.

我记不清具体出处了，但记得看过一些内容，讨论的是：要打多少场比赛，才能达到最佳状态？

I forget exactly where, you know, where it is, but I remember reading these where it's like, how many races do you need before you get to peak shape?

对吧？

You know?

就像五公里，大概是两次、三次，随便多少次吧。

And it's like the five k, it's like two, you know, three, whatever it is.

而八百米的话，大概是六到八次。

And then the 800, it's like six to eight.

而且你得——

And you're

没错。

just Yep.

明白了。

Okay.

确实有道理，因为要适应八百米那种突然的冲击感需要时间，而这本身就会成为训练的一部分。

Like and and there's some truth to that again in that it takes time to kinda get used to that that shock of the 800, and that actually becomes some of your training effect.

尤其是对大学生和高中生来说，早期我常把八百米比赛和之后的四组四百米结合起来，这样既能提升速度，又能增强速度耐力，效果会更好。

And sometimes early on and especially with college and high school runners, this is why I like combining racing the 800 with maybe a four by four afterwards because you get some heightened training effect both on speed and speed endurance, that can kinda help, be that stimulus.

我插一句，还想补充一点。

It's also it's I'm just gonna interject and add one thing.

战术也很重要，因为你跑得特别快，大家都挤在第一道。

It's it's the tactics are important too because you're going so fast, and we're all bunched up in lane one.

这有点像室内的400米比赛。

It's kinda also like the 400 indoors.

室内400米特别疯狂，因为所有人都往第一道冲，但速度却快得惊人。

That's a really crazy event because, like, everyone goes to lane one in the 400 indoors, but you're flying.

你要不断调整自己，避开周围的人，每个人都会经历那种‘酸痛熊’压背的感觉，然后突然加速或减速，这些反应得花时间去适应。

So, like, to calibrate all those adjustments to these bodies around you, and everyone will hit you know, have the bear jump on their back, right, that acidosis bear, and start to accelerate or decelerate rapidly at different times, that takes time to calibrate.

这种感觉，只有在比赛中才能真正体会到。

And you only can do that in the crucible of racing.

没错。

Yes.

确实如此。

Very true.

尤其是在室内，更需要时间适应。

It takes especially indoors.

你得真正在比赛中去体会这些东西。

You gotta you gotta race to get understand this stuff.

对。

Yeah.

我的成长过程其实也差不多。

You know, my my kind of progression is similar.

我通常会从一百米到二百米这样的短距离开始，差不多150米以内，先让身体适应速度耐力，而且每组之间的休息时间也相对较短。

So I like starting at at a 101 twenties, whatever, something really short, less than a 150 meters to kinda get that, speed endurance started with relatively short rest.

我喜欢像科瓦和你一样，用比较科学的方式安排训练：组间休息短一点，然后再穿插长休息，有时候也会用一些中间过渡的训练方式。

What I like to do is, again, kinda be mathematical like Canova, like yourself, in the sense that I like relatively short rest between reps and then to bring them back out with long rest or sometimes borrowing from, like, I just call it stuff in between.

是的。

Yeah.

这是史蒂夫·马格努斯的术语。

This is the Steve Magnus technical term.

就是一些中间训练。

Stuff.

跑步的科学里也有这种东西，但到底是什么呢？

And it's it's in science of running as well, but it's like it's it's the it's what is it?

就是一些零零碎碎的方法。

It's just stuff.

对吧？

Right?

你在做某种训练。

You're doing something.

明白吗？

You know?

也许你在跑步，借鉴伊格洛伊的方法，中间跑几个百米，用时十七秒或十六秒。

Maybe you're running, you're copying from Iglooi, and you're doing some some hundreds in, like, seventeen seconds or sixteen seconds in between.

但说实话，这速度并不快。

And it's like, well, that's not very fast.

是的。

Yeah.

史蒂文就说，对啊。

Steven is like, yeah.

这正是关键。

That's the point.

其实就是一些要做的训练内容。

It's just stuff to do.

对吧？

Right?

而且还会有一些恢复效果。

And and and there's some clearance effect.

我偶尔也会给运动员安排这样的训练，比如我会说，好了。

Another one I like to do with my athletes every once in a while is I'd be like, alright.

我想让你跑几个120米，跑得特别快。

You've got I want you you know, maybe we run some one twenties, really dang fast.

然后我会说，行了。

And then I'm like, okay.

我想让你跑一公里，但一开始先慢跑就行。

I want you to run a a k, but I want you to start, like, jogging.

等到最后一二百米，再加速到节奏跑的速度。

And then by the end of the k, like, the last 200 be at that tempo pace.

明白吧？

Right?

他们就会说，这到底是什么意思？

And they're just like, you know, what is that?

其实就是这么回事。

It's just stuff.

我不是非要增加训练强度，只是给他们点事情做。

It's like, it's not I'm not trying to add stimulus, but it's something for them to do.

对。

Yeah.

他们经常能理解，我们都能懂。

They often, you know, we get it.

他们一开始先慢跑。

They start off jogging.

之前跑完一百二十米，他们已经累坏了。

They're really tired from the one twenties.

这真够呛。

It sucks.

但到后面，他们又稍微跑快了一点。

But by the end, they're running a little faster again.

配速在乳酸阈值附近，不算特别快，但感觉好多了。

Tempo threshold, not really fast, but they start to feel better.

然后你再回来提醒他们：好了。

And then you get to come back with, okay.

咱们再做点别的，比如特别快的训练。

Let's do some other, like, really fast stuff.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种提高训练质量的方法，我觉得这样能让他们感觉心理上练得更久，其实没那么长时间，因为中间穿插了其他内容。

And it's a way to get some quality in there, and I think get more quality in there and make them feel like, you know, psychologically, they're getting a a a longer workout than it actually is, because there's stuff thrown in between sets.

太狠了。

Damn.

这招真够隐蔽的。

So That's that's super sneaky.

太狠了。

Damn.

没错。

Yeah.

这正是我平时干的那些疯狂事儿。

The this is this is the this is the kinda crazy crap I do.

狡猾的史蒂夫。

Sneaky Steve.

这就是

This is

那个耍花招的史蒂夫。

the sneaky Steve.

另一招就是，我把所有秘诀都摊开来说了。

The other thing to do is we're just gonna give away all the secrets.

如果你想让运动员多休息，又不想让他们察觉，那就开始聊天吧。

If you want more rest with athletes, but you don't want them to realize it, just start talking.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我平时就会这么做，你知道的，把我叫到一边。

This is what I I'll, you know, I'll pull aside.

我现在已经不在大学了，所以没什么好藏的，但以前我会把孩子拉到一边，跟他说：没错。

I'm giving away all the secrets now that I'm out of the college, but I'll just pull aside a kid and be like, yeah.

你觉得这个怎么样？

How do you feel about that?

你只要一开口，就开始长篇大论，说‘我懂，但这次你能不能换个思路，或者放松一点’。

And you just start the conversation, and then you just go on this diatribe where you're like, I get that, but, like, maybe this time, think about this or relax this.

你就一直说个不停。

And you're just talking.

对吧？

Right?

表面上看你在指导，其实根本没在指导。

And it seems like you're coaching, but you're not really coaching.

你只是在悄悄多争取点恢复时间，比如让他们休息五分钟而不是三分钟，他们自己还一点都没察觉。

You're just milking some extra recovery so that, like, they get, you know, five minutes instead of three minutes or whatever, and they don't realize it.

然后你就装作若无其事地说，哦，对啊。

And then you're just like, oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

咱们上线开始吧。

Let's let's get online and go.

他们感觉更好了，跑起来也比不这么做时更快。

And they feel better, and they're able to run faster than if they didn't.

所以你会做这类事情，倒不是故意耍花招，但确实有点儿打擦边球，为的就是保证训练的质量和速度耐力，毕竟正如你所说，质量才是关键。

So you do stuff like that to, again, not exactly, you know, be sneaky, but a little bit like that to make sure you're getting the quality and the speed endurance stuff because the quality, as you said, the quality is what it's all about.

说到这个，我们经常搞错的地方，我举个例子。

And and to me, you know, where we often get this stuff wrong is for instance, I'll give this.

如果你去问一个短跑教练什么是速度耐力，他们可能会让你练400米，而迈克尔·约翰逊在贝勒大学的教练克莱德·哈特是怎么做的呢？

If you go to a sprint coach and you say speed endurance and they're doing 400 work, what they would do and this is actually what did Michael Johnson's coach at at Baylor, Clyde Hart, do?

他特别有名的一招就是做三个50米。

He was famous for doing three fifties.

对吧？

Right?

这其实就是400米的速度耐力训练，跑得特别快，特别猛。

It's his speed endurance at, like, speed endurance for 400, like, really big fast.

后来大家都开始练三个五百米，你就想，干嘛非得做这三个五百米？

And people started doing three fifties, and you're like, well, why are you doing fit three fifties?

他说，对迈克尔·约翰逊来说，350米正好是他开始撑不住的点。

And he's like, well, for Michael Johnson, 350 was right when he started to break down.

是的。

Yeah.

你懂的。

You know?

差不多四十秒。

That's like forty seconds.

四十秒全力冲刺。

Forty seconds of hard rush.

没错。

Yes.

对其他人来说，可能三百米就差不多了。

It's like for other people, it's like 300 meters.

你明白吧。

You know?

哦，这么一说就合理了。

And it's like, oh, that makes sense.

就是三百五十米嘛。

Like, you know, three fifty.

撑不住了。

Break down.

然后休息好久好久好久。

And then long, long, long, long rest.

再来一次。

Do it again.

对。

Right.

我觉得，作为教练，我们常常逼着运动员跑得更远，明明都撑不住了还硬撑，总觉得没关系。

And I think, you know, there's a lot of for us as as coaches, we often push distance coaches, we often push beyond the point of breakdown because we're like, oh, it doesn't matter.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我们跑四百米。

We're running four hundreds.

撑过去就行。

Just survive it.

哪怕有点撑不住了，也要坚持完。

Get through it even if you fall apart a little bit.

在速度耐力训练这块，我特别关注这一点。

With the speed endurance stuff, I like to pay attention to that.

那个崩溃点到底在哪？

Where's that breakdown point?

我到那个点了吗？

And am I at it?

所以回到刚才说的，如果我们从120开始，就专注于维持这个强度，慢慢延长，我把那个崩溃点当作参考指标。

And so getting back to it, when we look at, okay, if we start at one twenties, then we just we work on keeping that intensity, extending it, and I use that breakdown point as kind of the guide.

所以如果他们在两百米的时候就开始撑不住了，我就会安排他们先跑个一百六十米之类的，保持训练的质量。

So if they're breaking down on two hundreds, and I'll be like, oh, we're gonna do one sixty or some random junk before so I keep that quality.

这也是为什么在高强度训练阶段，如果我们不比赛，我喜欢用递减跑的方式，比如先跑三百米，然后二百六十米、二百四十米这样。

And this is also why, you know, in the intense period, if we're not racing, I like to use kinda cutdowns where maybe we go for, like, 300, then two sixty or two forty.

这是以前塞布科和彼得·科的训练方法。

And this is the old Sebco, Peter Co.

对。

Yep.

没错吧？

Right?

他们当年的速度耐力训练是怎么安排的？

What was one of their speed endurance?

两百、一百九十、一百八十、一百七十、一百六十。

200, one ninety, one eighty, one seventy, one sixty.

每次就减少十米左右。

Like, it's just, like, 10 meters off every time.

其实，这还有一段小插曲。我记得大学毕业之后，刚开始训练的时候，有幸认识了乔·V·希尔，他人特别好。

And, actually, that was a, you know, a quick side story is, you know, I remember in my post collegiate world, I was I was training a little bit and got the chance to talk to Joe V Hill, and he was great.

我跑去听他讲话，之后我们一起去吃了晚饭，聊了整整几个小时。

And went to see him talk, and then we went and got a got some dinner afterwards and just talked for hours.

他根本不知道我是谁。

And he was you know, he didn't know who I was.

但他特别好奇，一听说我跑步，就问：‘哦，你跑步啊？’

He was just but he was super curious and was like, oh, you run.

他跟我说，想跑一英里，就得这么做这套训练。

This is the workout you need to do for a mile.

后来他听完我讲我平时怎么练的，就说了这么一句。

And he told me after, you know, explaining, I was explaining the workouts I was doing and the training.

他说我那些训练都还行，巴拉巴拉的。

It was like, all good at this, blah blah blah.

然后他直接说：‘史蒂夫，你就照这个练就行。’

And then he goes, Steve, you just need to do this.

就每周做一次，连续做四周，你就能准备好上场了。

Like, do it once a week for, like, you know, four weeks straight, and you're gonna be ready to roll.

那具体是什么？

And what was it?

是彼得·科特200。

It was the the Peter Coat, 200.

那是什么？

What's that?

就是1.94美元80美分。

You know, $1.94 80.

我当时就想，好吧。

And I'm like like, okay.

挺不错的训练。

And Good workout.

真的管用。

And it works.

效果特别好。

It works great.

所以这跟之前的思路是一样的。

So it's the same kind of idea.

那为什么要把训练量减下来呢？

And, well, why does that cutting down?

因为这样能让你保持甚至提升强度，同时不会过度疲劳。

Because it allows you to maintain or increase the intensity while, you know, not breaking down.

对了，Igloo，我再给你举个例子。

And, actually, Igloo, I'll give you the other example.

你看看Scholar的训练方法，他提到过。

If you look at Scholar's training is he quotes.

每隔一段时间，我们在完成所有间歇训练后，通常会做什么？

Was like, every once in while, what would we do at the end of all these intervals?

每次训练结束，我们会充分休息，然后做六组全力冲刺的100米。

At the end of this workouts, you know, we'd get lots of rest, you know, and then we do six by 100 all out.

那就是他们当时的速度耐力训练。

And that was their speed endurance for that.

他有句话是这么说的，那到底是什么意思呢？

And it was just like and he he had this quote where he said, what did it mean?

意思是每一步你都要尽全力去冲。

It mean every step you were pushing as as hard or as much as you could.

一共是六组一百米。

And it was six hundreds.

太棒了。

Love it.

太棒了。

Love it.

没错。

Yeah.

有几件事让我想起来。

A couple of things remind me.

是的。

Yeah.

那种10米递减的训练，比如从200米减到60米，或者从200米减到80米，我都做过。

That that 10 meter cut down type session, 200 down to I've done 200 down to sixty and two hundred down to 80.

我经常和米凯拉·弗雷克一起做这种训练，她在2016年有一段七八周的时间，能用老款跑鞋跑出2分01秒的水平。

Like, I did that with Mikaela Frecker very frequently, who was able to, like, run two zero one pre super shoe era for about seven, eight week period in 2016.

非常稳定。

Really stable.

特别稳定。

Really stable.

对吧？

Right?

我还做过上下阶梯式的训练。

I've also done the up and down the ladder.

比如从100米开始，每段加10到20米，一直加到200米，然后再慢慢减回来——这种练法我一般会用在状态比较温和的训练中。

So, like, start at a 100, go up 10 or 20 meters up to 200, and then come back down, which that's more that would be more something I do, like, say, with milder types.

比如赫雷拉当年专攻一英里时，这种上下梯度的配速训练他经常做，关键是要保持稳定的节奏。

Like, when Herrera was more trained for the mile, that would be actually a frequent speed workout he would do where it's like you go up and down the ladder where, again, you're trying to maintain that pace.

但你刚才说的那些巧妙的训练手段，本质上都是为了促进排浊。

But, essentially, all that sneaky stuff you're talking about, is about clearance.

对吧？

Right?

其实就是促进有氧代谢的清除作用。

It's about aerobic flush or clearance.

你知道约翰·库克常会穿插一些药球砸地之类的动作，作为中间的调节。

You know, something that the, John Cook would do is he would include, like, some medicine ball slams or something as stuff in between.

因为史蒂夫提到这些时，真正想调整的是肌肉组织里的有氧代谢清除，让运动员状态更清爽，尤其是说到‘百米组’的时候。

Because, again, what Steve's targeting when he's talking about that is manipulating some type of aerobic clearance in the tissues to kind of freshen up the athletes or when Steve is talking about the hundreds.

如果你是Igloo的忠实粉丝，或者参加了学者计划，那我真的很高兴史蒂夫要推出这门课，而且他终于下定决心做了。

And if you're a big Igloo fan, if you're a part of the Scholar Program, like, I'm so excited that Steve's gonna drop this course and that, you know, he got motivated to do it.

我也特别期待能参与进来，说说自己的看法，因为这真的很有价值。

And I'm excited to, you know, get my 2¢ and add to it because it's really impactful.

这其实就是我们之前聊过的那种波动训练。

Because it is essentially what we've talked about before, flux training.

这种训练方式的源头，来自那个年代的运动员和教练，比如伊格罗、扎多佩茨和昆茨。

That is the heart and soul of where it came from was that kind of era of guys and practitioners, Iglooi, Zadopec, and Kunz.

顺便提一句。

Small plug here.

我们说的这种冲洗效果，能让线粒体呼吸——如果你喜欢用科学术语的话——把体内堆积的代谢物全清理掉，这样运动员才能在长时间训练中保持住状态。

But, what we're looking at, right, is in order to get that flush then allows that mitochondrial respiration, if you wanna be a super science nerd about it, to kinda gobble up all those metabolites that's going through the system so you can sustain that effort over the long haul of that workout.

所以史蒂夫提到的那些学者们做的170、180米或者100米的恢复跑，设计初衷就是这种有氧或线粒体层面的代谢冲洗，好让他们能在一堂课里坚持更久。

And that's why, like, the fresh run that Steve referenced that Scholar will do at 17 or 18 or a 100 meter was exactly designed to be that, an aerobic or mitochondrial type respiratory flush so that they could actually extend how long they could work within the session.

因为有时候，如果你做的速度耐力训练强度够大，酸性积累够严重，这堂课其实就结束了。

Because, you know, sometimes when you do a speed endurance workout, if it's corrosive enough, it's if it's acidosis enough, the session's done.

真的就结束了。

Like, done done.

不管你给运动员休息十分钟、二十分钟，还是更久，他们都已经彻底垮了。

Like, no matter how much recovery you give the athlete, ten minutes, twenty minutes, whatever, they're fried.

所以我们绝不能把运动员练废了，或者过度透支。

And so we never wanna fry the athlete and overcook them.

这其中的分寸确实很难拿捏，需要非常小心地把握。

It's such a hard and fine balance in line to, navigate.

我和学员们在这方面聊过很多次，不管是打电话、私下交流，还是在训练馆里讨论，核心都是怎么管理这种酸中毒耐受度，以及避免越过那个临界点。

Like, I have a lot of conversations with scholars about this, whether on the phone or in private, you know, exchanges or even in the clubhouse about managing this acidosis, tolerance versus this acidosis tipping point.

我们要尽量避开那个临界点，因为酸中毒的感觉就像喝醉了一样。

And we wanna stay away from the tipping point because acidosis is like alcohol.

这东西对身体来说始终都是种毒素。

It's always a poison to the body.

它从来都不具备任何益处。

It's never beneficial.

你可以承受一定程度的摄入，但能忍受并不代表你就该把它当成日常饮食的固定部分。

You can tolerate a certain degree, but just because you can tolerate it doesn't mean you want to make that a regular staple of your diet.

没错。

Yes.

说得对。

That's a good point.

个子高能耐受，不等于就应该去做。

Just because you're taller you could tolerate doesn't mean that you you should or should do it.

这就像喝酒，你以为自己能喝，不代表非得喝。

It's it's it's like drinking alcohol just because you think you can do it.

你明白吧。

You know?

能喝不等于人人都该喝。

Doesn't mean you should all do it.

好的。

Okay.

那我们来看看，好吧。

So let's let's let's look at okay.

我们来分析一下，Jon，我这么问你吧，好吗。

Let's look at how does and maybe I'll frame this question for you, Jon, is okay.

我们之前聊了很多关于中距离的问题。

We've talked a lot about middle distance.

当我们转向更长的田径项目时，你对速度耐力的看法有什么变化？

How does your view of speed endurance change as we move into the longer track races?

是的。

Yeah.

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

这其实有点难说，因为速度耐力本身是个过渡性的概念。说到中距离时，更偏向速度，重点在速度上。

So that's a tricky one because it's a transitionary concept, so to speak, of speed endurance where it's like as when we talk about middle distance, it's more speed heavy, the emphasis.

对吧？

Right?

但说到中距离，或者更准确地说，现在我们谈的是从一英里到五公里的项目，那就更均衡了。

Now in middle distance and track, when I'm talking middle distance or, I mean, now in, you know, distance events and what I'm talking about is the mile up to five k, it's balanced.

这种训练需要你以接近最大能力的极高强度去练，你也可以称之为最大摄氧量的百分比，或者最大摄氧速度的百分比。

It's a balanced approach because you need to have you need to work at a very, very, very high percentage of your max capacity, and you can call this v o two max percentage if you want percentage, you know, velocity of percentage of v o two max.

所以这个运动员必须非常非常高效。

So here, this is an athlete who needs to be really, really efficient.

我们需要同时提升他们的上限——也就是速度，以及下限——也就是耐力。

So we need to raise both concurrently, their their their ceiling, their speed, as well as their floor, right, their endurance.

这很难。

That's tough.

说实话，史蒂夫，你知道的，这确实很难，因为每个耐力型运动员的敏感点都不同，各自更擅长的方面也不一样，相应的短板也更明显。

Just to be frank, as you know, Steve, it's tough because every athlete in that endurance world has a different sensitivity and a different, area that they are more inclined towards and stronger towards and then a bigger and then, you know, the opposite's true too.

他们的弱项或短板也会更突出。

Then they have a bigger weakness or deficit.

所以你得想办法平衡，怎么同时提升他们的短板和优势。

So you have to kind of balance how do I basically elevate both their deficit and their area of strength concurrently.

这其实回到了邦纳丘克的运动员分类理念，我们在《学者俱乐部》里讲过运动能力发展时提到的，你得清楚这个人对哪种训练刺激反应最好。

And that, you know, that goes to back to Bonnerchuk's concept of athlete profiling or athlete types that we talk about in the sports form development in The Scholar Clubhouse where it's like you have to know how that person responds to that type of stimuli.

我以前也说过这种敏感性类型的问题。

And I've talked about this before, that sensitivity type.

那他们是第一类反应者，还是第二类？

So are they a type one responder or type two?

第一类反应者呢，就是那种不容易被扰动的人。

And a type one responder, right, is someone who it it doesn't really, ruffle their feathers too much.

训练强度不会让他们觉得太累。

It's not, like, too exhausting.

对吧？

Right?

也不会让他们觉得特别泄气。

It's not too, like, deflating.

第二类反应者则会受到明显打击。

A type two response is a a big deflation.

一训练就容易倒退。

It's like it sets them back.

所以在为耐力运动员安排速度与耐力训练时，你得时刻留意，他们到底是属于哪一类反应者。

And so as you're managing speed endurance for that endurance athlete on the track or long longer distance athlete on the track, you have to concurrently keep in their mind, like, where are they type one or where are they type two?

高敏感度，低敏感度。

High sensitivity, low sensitivity.

这决定了你在某个领域——无论是他们的短板还是力量——能多频繁地安排特定强度的训练。

And then that predicates how often you can do a certain type of workload, in that area, whether it's their deficit or strength.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like I like that.

这个说法真不错。

I like that.

因为这确实跟我想的比喻一致，我之前可能提过，就像水管里的弯折。

Because it does come down to the the way I like to frame this, and I think I've mentioned this analogy, is it's like the kink in the pipe.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Right?

或者

Or

就像路口分岔一样。

the fork in the road.

对。

Yeah.

那这个分界点到底在哪里呢？

It's like, where where is that?

而且这个点会因运动员而异。

And it will change based on athletes.

我觉得这正是速度耐力的关键所在。

And I think this is the key for the speed endurance.

比如说，如果我跑五公里总在15分37秒上卡着，

And so, you know, here's how I like to think of it is if I'm stuck in running, I don't know, the five k in fifteen fifteen thirty seven.

我们就用每公里5分钟来方便计算。

We'll use five minute pace to keep the math even.

如果我卡在这个成绩上，是因为我的五公里和三公里之间、三公里和一英里之间、一英里和800米之间的差距不够大吗？

If I'm stuck there, right, is it because I don't have the gap between my five k and three k or my three k a mile or my mile an 800 or 800?

所以底下其实有一整条连锁反应。

So it's like there's a whole chain below.

对。

Right.

还是说，我根本缺乏耐力，没办法维持配速？比如我能跑出四分十五秒的英里，可一到五分钟配速就撑不住了。

Or is it because, like, I don't have the endurance, the extension to be able to let's say my you know, I can run a mile in, I don't know, four fifteen, but I fall apart running five minute pace.

这说明我的耐力在持续输出方面有短板。

So that tells me that there's an extension ability on that endurance.

对吧？

Right?

问题不在所谓的速度差距上。

It's not the speed, quote, unquote, gap.

而是在耐力和持续能力上。

It's the the endurance and the extension.

所以我得找出耐力延伸环节里卡住的那个点。

So I need to figure out where the kink in the pipe is on the extension.

我觉得个性化在这里特别重要，得搞清楚到底哪儿是瓶颈，以及我面对的是哪种类型的运动员，这决定了我是该侧重速度、耐力，还是像希沙姆·埃尔·盖鲁杰那样，把速度和耐力结合起来训练。

And this is where I think that individualization really matters in understanding, you know, what well, where is that kink in the pipe and what kind of athlete do I have, which determines, you know, whether I focus on speed, endurance, or speed endurance, like the combination mixture of both.

对。

Right.

所以运动员的历史背景也很关键。

And it it's also it's a and so that's where the athlete's history comes into play.

比如，如果运动员是从中长距离往上练，以前可能是跑八英里或者四英里那种水平，现在要转战三公里、五公里，像希沙姆·埃尔·盖鲁杰那样，那就得调整策略了。

So if they're moving up from middle distance up to, like, you know, moving up from eight being an eight mile type or four eight type and moving into a three k, five k, like, say, Hisham Elgarouche, that then would mean, okay.

重点在于提升耐力，而不是单纯追求速度。

It's an extension focus because it's not the speed gap focus.

对吧？

Right?

比如那些之前一直在练马拉松，或者半马、十公里的跑者。

Versus if they're coming down from they've been doing marathon training or, you know, they've they've been, like, half marathon 10 k.

然后像一些我带过的资深跑者，我会跟他们说，咱们得跑快点。

And then, you know, like, let's say some of the master athletes I've been working with who I'm like, well, we need to do faster.

所以接下来六个月，别跑马拉松或半马了。

So for the next six months, let's not do marathons or half marathons.

咱们就专注跑五公里。

Let's actually do five k's.

这其实是个速度差距、速度耐力或者极限的问题，现在你要往这个方向练了。

Now that's a speed gap or, you know, speed capacity or ceiling question where now you're focus in that way.

这真的挺难的，因为每个人的情况都太不一样了。

So that's really tough because it's so individualized.

没法给出具体的统一方案。

You can't say with specifics.

不像无距离项目那样，能明确告诉你该怎么练。

This is exactly how you train for this event like you could with no distance.

无距离项目倒是很明确，就是长距离冲刺。

No distance is pretty cut and dry because it's a long sprint.

这种个性化的细节特别关键，因为我们正好处在中间地带。

This the individual individualization nuance is really important because we essentially are in the middle.

因为，就像我们后面会说到的，训练10公里及以上其实挺明确的。

Because, like, you know, as we'll get to, like, training for 10 k and up, that's pretty cut and dry.

训练800米及以下，也都很清楚。

Training for 800 down, pretty cut and dry.

真正模糊的是中间这段距离，所以你才会看到那么多训练案例，有人靠跑量成功，有人靠速度突破，两种方式都有效，只是适合不同的人。

It's this middle area, which is like, that's why you see so many examples in training of success being had with either orientation and approach, more of a quote, unquote volume approach or more more of a speed based approach because they both work, and they work for that person.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

这其实正是问题的核心所在。

And this is, you know, to get at the kind of the crux of it.

我很久以前在《跑步的科学》里就写过这个。

And I wrote about this long time ago in science of running.

这就决定了你是想从基础做起，还是从高强度入手——简单说，我再简化一遍。

It's like, this determines whether you want to take, like, the bottom up approach or the top down approach to, like so to simplify, let's say again, I'll keep it simple.

五公里的话，我觉得这个运动员需要跑四个一英里，配速五分钟，然后接着跑十五分钟，或者十五分三十七秒，具体看情况。

The five k, well, I need this athlete, I think, to run four by mile at five minute pace, and then he'll run fifteen minutes, whatever it or fifteen thirty seven, whatever it is.

公里。

K.

所以是四个一英里，配速五分钟。

So four by mile, five minute pace.

你是通过先跑四个百米，配速75秒，再跑六个六百米，配速一分四十或一分五十二，然后跑八个八百米，配速两分三十，这样一步步往上堆叠来达到目标吗？

Well, do you get there by going, you know, well, we're gonna run four hundreds at 75 and then six hundreds at whatever that is, one forty or one fifty two, then eight hundreds at two thirty, and so it's like you're going from the bottom and extending, extending.

还是说你从上往下安排训练？

Or do you go from the kinda top down?

我这说得简单了点，但你想想看——

And I'm simplifying this, but go from, you know what?

我直接跑一英里，配速五分二十，然后五分十五，五分十，五分零五，最后五分整。

I'm gonna run miles in five twenty, then five fifteen, then five ten, then five zero five, and five flat.

不过大多数人其实都会结合这两种方法，取个中间值。

And most of us use some sort of mixture or blend of of both cases.

对。

Yeah.

但这正是教练培训的核心，也就是理解训练逻辑。因为简单来说，你的做法要么是专注于速度，比如：'我已经有速度了。'

But this is this is the coaching training, like, understanding because, like, what you're doing is either focusing on on in the simplified version, oh, I have the the speed.

然后需要去延伸这种速度。

I need to extend it.

明白。

Mhmm.

还是说，你的意思是，我已经有足够的耐力了。

Or you're saying, like, I have the endurance.

我需要在此基础上，通过循序渐进的方式，把这种耐力进一步量化或者强化。

I need to add like, I need to quant qualify it or intensify it over over time.

具体采用哪种方式，取决于你面前这位运动员的具体情况。

In which way you go depends on the athlete sitting in front of you.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是

I mean,

就这么简单。

it's as simple as that.

我举个例子吧，就拿我们之前说的两种类型来说，一种是需要从基础做起、来自耐力型的，另一种是需要自上而下、来自速度型的。

Here, I'll use an example of you know, we'll just take two of those archetypes we presented, kinda someone who needs a, you know, bottom much bottom up approach who's coming from the endurance side or someone who needs a top down approach and needs extension coming from the speed side.

我们就用同一个训练内容来说明。

Let's just use the same workout.

重复上千次。

Repeat thousands.

对于那种来自基础、偏耐力型的人来说，我们需要提升他们的速度能力。

So for someone who is coming from, you know, that bottom up pro or from the, the endurance side, we need to improve their speed capacity.

所以我们要说，好吧。

So we need to say, okay.

我们要提升那个上限，也就是我常说的抬高天花板。

We need to work on that ceiling and raising that ceiling as I call it.

所以对于这位运动员，我们这样安排公里训练。

So here's how we're gonna do k's for that athlete.

我们会用文兰那种单公里分解的方式。

We're gonna use Vinland on his, one k breakdown way.

先跑一个全程公里，按比赛配速。

So we're gonna do a k at, race pace.

然后慢跑400米恢复。

Take 400 meter jog.

接着做500米、300米、200米的递增分解，每段都越来越快。

Then we're gonna do 500, 300, 200, one k breakdown, getting progressively faster.

500米按3公里配速，300米按1英里配速，200米按800米配速。

So 500 at, say, three k, 300 at mile pace, 200 at 800 pace.

每段之间的恢复时间，等于下一段的距离。

Recovery is the the distance of the next rep.

接下来，我们再跑一个公里，这次按5公里配速。

Now we'll go back and do another k at five k pace.

接下来我们再做一组五公里分解跑，或者两组五公里分解跑。

And now we'll come back and do another five k breakdown or maybe two sets of five k breakdowns.

最后再跑一个五公里配速的一公里，作为力量训练。

And we'll finish with their strength, which is another k at five k pace.

很好。

Great.

这就是我们为这位运动员安排训练的方法。

So that's how we're gonna approach that for that athlete.

现在，比如面对一位正在延长距离的运动员，我们依然会用公里分解训练。

So now, say, taking an athlete like a, you know, type or someone who's moving up in distance, we're still gonna use the k workout.

那对他们我们该怎么做呢？

So what are we gonna do with them?

好的。

Alright.

下面是关于公里训练的具体安排。

Here's what we're gonna do with k's.

我们会以相同的速度做公里重复跑，速度大概比五公里目标配速慢一点，但比三公里目标配速快一点。

What we're gonna do is we're gonna do k repeats at the same speed, and it's gonna be, say, maybe, a little bit slower than five k goal pace, but a little bit faster than three k goal pace.

由于他们的有氧能力有限，我们会逐步调整每组之间的休息时间。

And now because they're limited by extensive ability, what we're gonna do is we're going to, periodize the rest interval in between the case.

所以每组的配速保持不变。

So we're gonna run the same pace.

举个例子，我们就按每公里3分15秒的配速来跑。

Let's just say for sake of argument, we're running three flat, you know, 15 flat pace.

第一组和第二组之间休息60秒。

Between rep one and rep two, we're going to run do it on sixty seconds rest.

第二组和第三组之间休息90秒。

Rep two and rep three, ninety seconds rest.

第三组和第四组之间休息两分钟。

Rep three and rep four, two minutes rep.

第四组和第五组之间再增加30秒休息时间。

Rep four and rep five, you know, so another thirty seconds to the rest.

对吧？

Right?

这跟Rasco的训练方式很像，比如你看到的Rasco带Alan Webb训练，或者你Steve自己训练时的情况。

And this is very much like, say, what you saw with Rasco or would see in Rasco's training with Alan Webb or with you, Steve.

对吧？

Right?

他会调整休息时间，保持配速不变，但通过科学安排休息，让运动员有更多恢复空间，这样即使有耐力短板，也能在不崩溃的情况下，反复练习并巩固这个配速。

He would periodize the rest, keep the pace, but periodize the rest to allow for more stuff or clearance to happen so that athlete who had that deficit extension could ex you know, practice extension of that pace and that workout without, quote, unquote, blowing up.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢这个思路。

I love that.

换句话说，就是根据眼前这位运动员的具体情况，灵活调整训练变量，来改变训练的刺激效果。

I mean, again, it's like utilizing the variables to change the stimulus of the workout for the athlete sitting in front of you.

所以关键是要明白，比如说——

So understanding, like, okay.

我们就这样来处理这个问题。

This is how we're going to approach this.

确实如此。

It really is.

如果要我总结一下，其实就是解决问题的过程。

It's you know, if I could sum up, it's like problem solving.

确实如此。

It really is.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

我们之所以讨论速度耐力，正是因为大家一听到速度耐力，就会想，比如你们来自美国田协，那到底是速度耐力一还是速度耐力二？

And and this is this is, I think, the why we're having this discussion on speed endurance is we often think speed endurance, and then we're like, oh, for instance, if you come from USATF, well, is that speed endurance one or speed endurance two?

然后他们还会再细分出特别的速度耐力。

And then they give special speed endurance.

他们给你安排几组训练，但其实不是这么回事。

They give you a couple workouts for that, and it's like, no.

不是。

No.

关键不在训练本身。

It's not not the workouts.

你要看的是这些术语，然后思考怎么为我们量身打造这种适应性。

It's look at the words and then look at how we're going to, like, create that that adaptation for us.

对。

Mhmm.

这会因运动员不同、他们所参加的项目，以及他们需要适应的训练方式而有所变化。

And that is going to vary based on the athlete in front of us, the event they're training for, and the style of, you know, training that they need to adapt to.

就像你开头说的，我们手头有这么多方法，可以这么说：

And we have all these, as you said at the beginning, we have all these tools where we can say, okay.

不妨试试这个，或者试试那个。

Let's try this or let's try that.

咱们不妨试试这个方法，看看它到底能不能达到你想要的效果。

Let's, you know, try this approach and and see what really kinda creates the the desired effect that you're going after.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得，咱们最后可以聊聊长距离耐力方面，比如一万米及以上的项目。

I think, you know, let's, yeah, wrap up with kinda the, you know, long endurance or heavy endurance side, like, say, 10 k and up.

史蒂夫，对于这种长距离耐力型运动员，你一般怎么估算他们的速度耐力训练量呢？

Steve, how would you kinda, you know, ballpark that that type of work on speed endurance work for that, you know, long duration athlete?

是的。

Yeah.

这个嘛，其实得看情况，我得泼点冷水。

So here, it it kinda depends, and I'm gonna throw a wrench into this.

对于长距离耐力型运动员，我前面说过要打基础，我更倾向于在坡道上练，不只是短距离冲刺，还要拉长一点，因为我觉得这能非特异性地提升强度，涉及到不同的肌纤维激活，等等这些因素。

I like for the long endurance athlete you know, at the beginning, I said to build that foundation, I like to do that on hills, not only with pure, you know, short hill sprints, but getting a little bit longer because what I think of it is is non nonspecific extension of that intensity because it's, like, different muscle fiber recruitment, all that stuff.

至于长距离项目的速度耐力，我通常会参考卡诺瓦的观点。他说，对于马拉松选手，你要往下看一级，看看你的半马乳酸阈值速度，跟你的马拉松配速之间是什么关系。

And then if we look at speed endurance for the, the longer stuff, what I tend to look at it is, you know, and I taught learned this from Canova, is he says for the marathon, you look, essentially, you look down one step at, like, your half marathon lactate threshold, and you see where is that quality in relation to your marathon speed.

这样就能有个清晰的方向。

And that gives you the idea.

他强调，你的半马最高速度耐力表现，不应该是正好在马拉松当天达到巅峰，因为那样你就太紧绷了。

And he put it as you want your peak half marathon, that speed endurance, not to be peak at marathon day because if you are, you're too sharp.

你希望那个半马速度耐力的巅峰状态，提前六周、八周左右出现，这样中间就有缓冲期，你就能专注于耐力的延伸训练。

You want that that peak half marathon kind of stuff to be, you know, six weeks out or whatever have you, eight weeks out, something like that, because then you've got that gap in that speed, and then you just work on the extension.

通过这种延伸训练，你能更高效地燃烧脂肪供能，而不是依赖碳水化合物。

And by working on the extension, then you allow yourself to get really efficient at burning fats as fuels instead of carbs, etcetera.

你其实是有意把刀锋磨钝一点，因为这样刀子反而能更持久地保持锋利，而不是只在某一刻特别锐利——这个比喻你懂吧？

And, like, you almost dull the blade a little bit intentionally because the blade then becomes more efficient at cutting over time versus just, like, one off sharpness, if that analogy makes any sense whatsoever.

不懂。

No.

这个说法完全说得通。

It makes total sense.

对，确实是这样。

I mean yeah.

我再补充两个我常用的方法，分别针对10公里和马拉松。

I'll I'll add, like, you know, my two go tos, like, I'll give the 10 k version and kind of the marathon version.

马拉松那个版本，基本上就是做20-20-20-20的练习。

So the marathon version is essentially this kind of like, you know, twenty twenty twenty twenty drill.

这其实是一次20分钟的渐进式跑，但用这种方式练比较巧妙。

So it's like a twenty minute progression run, but it it looks it's a sneaky way of doing it.

所以就是先以马拉松配速或者强度跑前20分钟，然后接下来20分钟用半马的强度。

So it's like you start off first 20 at marathon pace or effort, then next twenty minutes, half marathon.

接着呢，第三个20分钟，也就是凑满一小时的时候，

And then, you know, third twenty minutes was, you know, come up to an hour.

要用15公里的配速。

It's gonna be at 15 k pace.

然后再降下来，最后以马拉松的强度，或者稍微比马拉松强度慢一点、比半马强度快一点的速度完成。

Then you back off and finish the darn thing up at marathon effort or maybe a little bit slower than marathon effort, a little faster than half marathon effort.

这样你就有了整整八十分钟的高强度跑步。

So that gives you good solid eighty minutes of hard running.

接下来你可以通过加快第三个二十分钟的配速来提升训练强度，然后再回落到马拉松或半马配速，这样就能在跑步中自然制造节奏变化。

You then progress the workout by increasing that third twenty minutes, the pace of that, and then backing off back to your marathon, half marathon pace so you can create clearance on the fly.

因为在马拉松或半马比赛中，尤其是遇到坡道或赛程变化时，如果你是竞技水平的跑者，这种突然加速的能力非常关键。

Because that's a really important thing that we have to be able to do in the marathon or even half marathon depending on the hills and the course, a pace injection if you're at a competitive level.

你必须能在跑步中随时完成加速。

You have to be able to clear on the fly.

所以很多训练的目的，就是创造一种需要突然加速但又不至于太吃力的情境，让身体慢慢学会在比赛中灵活应对。

And so a lot of that work is about creating a situation where clearance needs to be manifested but very tolerable and then being able to, like, teach the body so the body can learn how to do that on the fly.

对于10公里跑者，我特别喜欢那种间歇乳酸阈值跑，也有人叫它间歇节奏跑。

For 10 k runners, I really like broken threshold or broken tempo runs as people call them.

就是跑一英里，休息90到60秒，反复进行。

You know, just repeat miles with ninety, sixty seconds rest.

每次休息时间固定在90到60秒之间，但我们会调整每段英里跑的配速结构，逐步提升难度。

It's always ninety, sixty ninety to sixty seconds of rest between the repeat miles, but we change the constitution of the repeat miles of how we advance them.

为了提升重复跑中的速度能力，特别是针对速度耐力的专项训练，我们会逐步加快每次重复跑的最后400米。

So in order to work the speed side of the repeat miles, as someone gets, into improve their speed endurance specific speed endurance for that, the last we try to advance the last 400 in each rep.

所以我们说，把最后400米跑快一点。

So we say, run that last 400.

比如说，前1200米我们按你的心率阈值或者设定的配速来跑。

So let's say we're running at what we decide your, you know, your threshold or whatever for the first 1,200.

然后我们逐渐加快最后的12个或4个400米。

We then try to advance the last 12 or four hundreds.

最后四分之一跑得更快一点。

Run the last quarter faster.

最后四分之一要加速。

Run the last quarter faster.

当这个加速幅度达到极限时，我们就调整策略，说：行了，现在把最后600或800米加快。

When we get to a place where that has been maxed out, then it's like, alright.

把最后600或800米跑得更快一些。

Run the last 600 or 800 faster.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们是通过从每组的末尾开始，往回推，来延长他们维持阈值速度的距离。

So we extend the speed they're running that threshold at, but by starting at the end of the rep and working backwards.

最终，理想情况是整个一英里都能保持这个速度，但我们会从最小的区间和增量开始，逐步推进。

And so then eventually, right, you extend the the ideal place is you extend the speed for the whole mile throughout this progression, but starting with the smallest possible interval and increment and doing it that way.

我喜欢这个方法。

I like it.

我觉得挺有道理的。

Sounds reasonable to me.

逻辑清晰，也很合理。

Logical and reasonable.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这一切听起来都挺有道理的，我想。

It all makes sense, I guess.

也许吧。

Maybe.

也许在我们自己的世界里是这样。

Maybe in our own world.

我跟你说啊。

So I'll tell you what.

你们听众觉得这有道理吗？

You tell us listeners if it makes sense.

你们最喜欢的速度训练和训练方式是什么？

What are your favorite speed and sessions?

你们是怎么看待这个问题的？

How do you look at it?

告诉我们吧。

Let us know.

如果你还没了解过，正如你所听到的，我和乔对学者计划的发展都很兴奋。

And if you haven't, as you can tell, Jon and I are excited about what's going on in the Scholar Program.

我知道你经常听到这种话，但还是去看看吧。

I know you hear it all the time, but check it out.

不妨亲自试一试。

Just give it a try.

你知道，如果你

You know, if you

不想参与学者计划，我们也可以在俱乐部频道继续交流，我们之前在多个播客里就这么做过。

don't want a scholar, you can we can continue the dialogue in the Clubhouse, which we've done with multiple podcasts.

欢迎在问答频道给我们留言。

So shoot us in the question and answer channel.

嘿。

Hey.

我对这期播客有些问题。

I have questions on this podcast.

你能再详细说说这个吗？

Can you go into more detail about this?

我们能不能把这个再展开讲讲？

Can we expand this?

或者问问其他学者有什么看法。

Or ask other scholars what their input is.

而且好处在于，你能得到的视角不止是我和史蒂夫的。

And then the great thing is you get more perspective than just Steve and I.

说真的，史蒂夫，你知道吗？

And honest to god, Steve, you know what?

我真的学到了很多东西。

I just learn a lot.

每天我进去一看，根本想不到还能这么干。

Every day I go in there and go, I would never thought about doing it like that.

人家就这么干，还做得特别成功。

And they're doing it like that and succeeding.

向我们的同行和同事们致敬，

Hats off to my our our peers and colleagues in

在全世界范围内。

the world.

确实如此。

True.

你掌握的知识越多，能传播这些知识的人也就越多。

The more knowledge you get, the more people you get who can spread that.

所以，一起来参与吧。

So join in.

加入我们，成为其中一员。

Be a part of it.

好了，各位。

Alright, everybody.

谢谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

我们下次再聊。

Until next time.

继续坚持指导吧。

Keep up coaching.